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BeerBaron
08-22-2011, 08:47 PM
A little disclaimer first: I fully feel as though Manning will be ready to start this season.

But, the possibility of his absence makes me wonder....if Peyton were to miss this season (hypothetically,) how many wins would the Colts have?

I mean, if you look at the rest of that roster...a rather lousy offensive line and a defense that has been, is, and seemingly always will be susceptible to the run, headed by Curtis Painter or Dan Orlovsky at QB...it doesn't look pretty.

They do have a collection of good receiving threats and pass rushers, but I don't think it would be enough to keep this team anywhere near playoff contention.

So, what do you think? How many games would the Colts win this season if Peyton Manning didn't play?

BeerBaron
08-22-2011, 08:49 PM
And for the record, I think they would be a 5 win team.

Rabscuttle
08-22-2011, 08:50 PM
Bring on the Andrew Luck era.

CC.SD
08-22-2011, 08:50 PM
I'm gonna be that guy and say none. Sorry but give me a break with this Curtis Painter business.

tjsunstein
08-22-2011, 08:51 PM
Went less than 4. They're absolute garbage without him. I would actually side with CC.SD here, they may not win any.

BeerBaron
08-22-2011, 08:53 PM
I never in my life thought I'd be defending the Colts in something....but 0? They still have a good set of targets for _______ to throw to, including some pro bowlers. Plus, I think Dan Orlovsky won at least a couple games with the Lions. He could probably win a couple with the Colts if he was able to do that.

hawkeye123
08-22-2011, 08:54 PM
With Curtis Painter starting? 4 wins max.

V.I.P
08-22-2011, 08:59 PM
4-5 wins with Curtis Painter.

10+ wins if they trade for Josh Johnson.

CC.SD
08-22-2011, 09:01 PM
lol, obviously 0 is extreme on a historical level but I think it's a possibility here. I would hope Reggie and Clark could put some points on the board for a couple games. I am interested to see Ernie Sims in their D, stupidly enough.

BeerBaron
08-22-2011, 09:19 PM
Complex...10+? Really? Do they get to play the Titans 10 times?

TitanHope
08-22-2011, 09:22 PM
Complex...10+? Really? Do they get to play the Titans 10 times?

Complex voted 10+, not 0-10! Silly BB!

Fun fact: Jim Caldwell is actually a hologram.

http://rjmccord91.files.wordpress.com/2010/02/jim-caldwell-and-peyton-manning.jpg

See? Completely see through.

BeerBaron
08-22-2011, 09:24 PM
Caldwell is just an android created by Bill Polian to provide the "illusion" of a coach while Peyton runs the show.

http://thesportsgeeks.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/02/TheManyFacesAndEmotionsOfJimCaldwell.jpg

Complex
08-22-2011, 09:31 PM
Complex...10+? Really? Do they get to play the Titans 10 times?

What can I say I believe in the Painter.

hockey619
08-22-2011, 09:48 PM
to put it simply: that team is terrible without peyton. not below average. terrible. combine that with the fact that his backups suck pretty badly and its clear theyd be cakewalks for the bottom feeders of the league.

if they had an average qb as the backup, say garrard or something, id say maybe 5 or 6. that team is built to win with a high scoring offense, only peyton can really handle that with their personnel.

BeerBaron
08-22-2011, 09:59 PM
Alright, it seems like no one....except for Complex...thinks that the Colts would be anything worthwhile.

Now, lets say they sign Brett Favre like Jim Irsay was joking (I hope joking...) change anything? Slightly better? WORSE even?

Raiderz4Life
08-22-2011, 10:05 PM
If they got Farve I think it'd be the same thing as having Painter in there. At Farve's age 1 solid hit and Painter will probably get 15+ games of action.

Hurricanes25
08-22-2011, 10:08 PM
Favre is still better than Painter. Painter is miserable. I'm not sure if anybody saw Painter play the Jets and the Bills at the end of the 09-10 season but he was absolutely terrible.

Painter- 4 win team
Favre- 6-7 win team
Manning- 10+

Miaoww
08-22-2011, 10:13 PM
I went with 4 or 5. Peyton Manning really makes that team. He's that good, and it's why he's paid so much.

V.I.P
08-22-2011, 10:28 PM
Thought Manning was going to start opening day, no?

BeerBaron
08-22-2011, 10:29 PM
Thought Manning was going to start opening day, no?

Read the disclaimer...it's the very first line of the very first post...

V.I.P
08-22-2011, 10:35 PM
Read the disclaimer...it's the very first line of the very first post...

ahah, my bad i'm kinda ****** up right about now.

diabsoule
08-22-2011, 10:43 PM
With Favre, if he decides to sign and play one more year, then probably a 6 to 8 win team. Without Favre or Manning they win 3-5 games max.

Splat
08-22-2011, 10:45 PM
Can we make it that when someone types Favre it comes up as *****?

I don't even want to see his name on here.

yodabear
08-22-2011, 10:49 PM
3-13. They'd suck so badly.

BeerBaron
08-22-2011, 10:50 PM
Ok, looking at Painter...

http://photos.indystar.com/photos/2011/8/1/506058/inline.jpg

I would change my vote to 0 wins.

niel89
08-22-2011, 10:52 PM
I'm going under 4 wins. The team is completely built upon Manning being out there. His ability to put himself in good protections and audible to a better play cover a lot of the OL deficiencies. The offensive skill players are good but I absolutely think Manning makes them look better than what they really are. Also the defense is made to rush the passer because the other team should be behind and have to pass to catch up.

CashmoneyDrew
08-23-2011, 12:23 AM
0 wins, I believe that. Maybe they get extremely lucky and win 1 in a fluke or maybe week 17 when a playoff team completely lays over.

Ness
08-23-2011, 12:33 AM
If Curtis Painter started all of the games I'd say 2 to 3 wins. I'd get the feeling that Painter would be pulled before then. I'm surprised he's still on the team to be honest, let alone the main backup. Sorgi even seemed better. Manning has a few more years left probably, but they should really start thinking about his replacement.

BeerBaron
08-23-2011, 12:42 AM
I'm not sure if some of you realize just what 0 wins means. I mean, even when the Lions did it, they didn't get blown out every time. The Colts would still have Wayne, Clark, Garcon, Gonzalez, and Collie on offense and Freeney and Mathis on defense...I think they'd be able to make enough plays to win a couple of games. The odds of them losing 16 times are just astronomical. Some other team will have one bad day against them..and sometimes games are decided by a simple bounce of the ball, sometimes literally.

tuan33
08-23-2011, 12:47 AM
I'm not sure if some of you realize just what 0 wins means. I mean, even when the Lions did it, they didn't get blown out every time. The Colts would still have Wayne, Clark, Garcon, Gonzalez, and Collie on offense and Freeney and Mathis on defense...I think they'd be able to make enough plays to win a couple of games. The odds of them losing 16 times are just astronomical. Some other team will have one bad day against them..and sometimes games are decided by a simple bounce of the ball, sometimes literally.

The problem is that defense can't do stop the run. If the colts can't score, the other team is just going to run at freeney and mathis which negates that defense's greatest strength, their pass rush. Teams don't have to catch up or keep up with Painter in there at QB.

Ness
08-23-2011, 12:51 AM
There have been some really bad teams in NFL history. It's even extremely rare just to win one game, let alone practically impossible to win zero. What the Lions did a few seasons ago was just as uncommon as what the Patriots did in winning all of their regular season games. Losing Manning would hurt, but they still have enough good players to at least win a couple of games.

CashmoneyDrew
08-23-2011, 12:58 AM
I'm not sure if some of you realize just what 0 wins means. I mean, even when the Lions did it, they didn't get blown out every time. The Colts would still have Wayne, Clark, Garcon, Gonzalez, and Collie on offense and Freeney and Mathis on defense...I think they'd be able to make enough plays to win a couple of games. The odds of them losing 16 times are just astronomical. Some other team will have one bad day against them..and sometimes games are decided by a simple bounce of the ball, sometimes literally.

Their defense is already bad. Playing from behind and having to stop the run would send them to the bottom of the league.

On offense, a coach would actually have to call plays. Who knows if they'd be any good.

That offensive line would become even worse as whatever QB took over wouldn't be as well versed in getting rid of the ball as quickly as Manning.

The run game would face 8 man fronts constantly making an average run game worse.

Receivers like Garcon and Gonzalez would be near non-factors.

All they'd really have going for them would be an aging Reggie Wayne and Dallas Clark if he could stay healthy.

Also, I bet opposing teams would average less penalties against a Manning-less Colts than one with Manning at the helm.

bucfan12
08-23-2011, 01:11 AM
2 or less. They are a horrific team without him and honestly, Manning is what makes that team go. There defense is never great, all they have to do is be solid because Manning can make the offense put up enough points necessary.

Without Manning, there offense won't and can't score. Probably won't win a game if he misses any time.

jsagan77
08-23-2011, 01:31 AM
Is it safe to say that the Colts could be one of the worst drafting teams in the NFL over the past 6 years (maybe more)? They don't have an OL, their D sucks, RB's are average, and w/o Manning their WR's are average (minus Wayne). They have no solid depth anywhere and their QB situation after Manning is simply unacceptable... Am I being too harsh here or am I imagining things...? If so there has to be a Colts fan that can set me straight.

BeerBaron
08-23-2011, 01:52 AM
Is it safe to say that the Colts could be one of the worst drafting teams in the NFL over the past 6 years (maybe more)? They don't have an OL, their D sucks, RB's are average, and w/o Manning their WR's are average (minus Wayne). They have no solid depth anywhere and their QB situation after Manning is simply unacceptable... Am I being too harsh here or am I imagining things...? If so there has to be a Colts fan that can set me straight.

You're not being too harsh...the guys saying they would have 0 wins have that covered...

But you're pretty much spot on. Year in and year out, they have the same weaknesses. And Bill Polian is using his spot on the competition committee to bend the rules to fit his crappy, finesse system rather than the other way around. This Colts team and his Bills team of the 90s...1/6 in Superbowls despite having 2 HoF QBs, plus countless other playoff failures....

Ness
08-23-2011, 02:43 AM
Is it safe to say that the Colts could be one of the worst drafting teams in the NFL over the past 6 years (maybe more)? They don't have an OL, their D sucks, RB's are average, and w/o Manning their WR's are average (minus Wayne). They have no solid depth anywhere and their QB situation after Manning is simply unacceptable... Am I being too harsh here or am I imagining things...? If so there has to be a Colts fan that can set me straight.

Probably one of the worst teams in drafting for the last few years. I can't remember the last player they got through the draft that has been fairly good. Enough to warrant some accolades. Antoine Bethea?

Woody56
08-23-2011, 02:58 AM
Always said the Colts are a 2 win team without Manning.

hawkeye123
08-23-2011, 03:05 AM
Has their ever been a professional team so dependent on one player? At least the Patriots had a good year when Brady went got hurt. The closest team that comes to mind are the Cavs without Lebron.

BloodBrother
08-23-2011, 05:09 AM
Voted for 4-5 as that is the lowest option but I don't think they even can get to 4 wins without Manning. Their backup QB situation is brutal and the team is aging all over the place.

Ness
08-23-2011, 05:11 AM
Has their ever been a professional team so dependent on one player? At least the Patriots had a good year when Brady went got hurt. The closest team that comes to mind are the Cavs without Lebron.

I can't remember the last football team so dependent on a player that's for sure. In the pros that is. The Colts need to seriously start doing some drafting or acquiring better players to help Manning out. Especially if they want to win another championship. Maybe they'll be more healthy this year so that should help. But really, these Colts teams as of late are nothing compared to what Manning had in the middle of the decade.

J-Mike88
08-23-2011, 05:40 AM
So we have one comedian in the room huh? One vote for 10+ wins. LOL.
That offense would be atrocious (worse dropoff than Arizona had the year after Warner left.... or think Carolina last year).

BigBanger
08-23-2011, 10:14 AM
LESS THAN ZERO


That franchise has been on his shoulders for over a decade. Curtis Painter? Please. He can't even move the ball in preseason against vanilla defenses.

Bucs_Rule
08-23-2011, 10:46 AM
Probably one of the worst teams in drafting for the last few years. I can't remember the last player they got through the draft that has been fairly good. Enough to warrant some accolades. Antoine Bethea?

Before that they had an amazing stretch of 1st round picks.

1996 19 Marvin Harrison WR Syracuse
1997 19 Tarik Glenn OT California
1998 1 Peyton Manning QB Tennessee (Polian First Pick)
1999 4 Edgerrin James RB Miami (FL)
2000 28 Rob Morris LB Brigham Young
2001 30 Reggie Wayne WR Miami (FL)
2002 11 Dwight Freeney DE Syracuse
2003 24 Dallas Clark TE Iowa
2004 — — No Pick — — [17]
2005 29 Marlin Jackson CB Michigan
2006 30 Joseph Addai RB Louisiana State
2007 32 Anthony Gonzalez WR Ohio State
2008 — — No Pick — — [18]
2009 27 Donald Brown RB Connecticut
2010 31 Jerry Hughes DE Texas Christian
2011 22 Anthony Castonzo OT Boston College

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Indianapolis_Colts_first-round_draft_picks

BeerBaron
08-23-2011, 11:14 AM
Before that they had an amazing stretch of 1st round picks.

1996 19 Marvin Harrison WR Syracuse
1997 19 Tarik Glenn OT California
1998 1 Peyton Manning QB Tennessee (Polian First Pick)
1999 4 Edgerrin James RB Miami (FL)
2000 28 Rob Morris LB Brigham Young
2001 30 Reggie Wayne WR Miami (FL)
2002 11 Dwight Freeney DE Syracuse
2003 24 Dallas Clark TE Iowa
2004 — — No Pick — — [17]
2005 29 Marlin Jackson CB Michigan
2006 30 Joseph Addai RB Louisiana State
2007 32 Anthony Gonzalez WR Ohio State
2008 — — No Pick — — [18]
2009 27 Donald Brown RB Connecticut
2010 31 Jerry Hughes DE Texas Christian
2011 22 Anthony Castonzo OT Boston College

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Indianapolis_Colts_first-round_draft_picks

So you have to go back to 2003 to get the last great 1st round pick. Castonzo is a rookie, so who knows yet. Hughes barely saw the field last year, but it's too early to say. Brown has been awful. I believe the 2008 first rounder was the one they traded for Tony Ugoh? Awful...no longer on the team. Is he even on any team? Gonzalez has been alright when healthy, but that has been extremely rare...Addai is solid. Not great, but solid. Marlin Jackson was alright when healthy, but that seemed to be rare and he's no longer on the team.

And that's not even counting the other picks who never did anything. For every Austin Collie or Antoine Bethea they find in the mid-late rounds, they waste 2nds and 3rds on Fili Moala's (0 sacks in 16 starts last year,) or Quinn Pitcocks (retiring early.)

killxswitch
08-23-2011, 11:15 AM
It's about time a Colts fan set you guys straight.

Ha, who am I kidding. The Colts would win 4 games max without Manning. Zero if the team stuck with Painter the whole year. Since it is hard to have an intimate knowledge of a team you don't live and breathe, let me walk you through the roster, the coaching staff, Bill Polian's drafts since 2006, etc.

OL - Absolutely terrible starting in 2008. When Tarik Glenn retired Bill Polian had no idea what to do and never did figure it out. His son Chris is GM now and the OL looks like it has some promise with new starters but we haven't seen them play with Manning yet.

RB - It doesn't matter. With this OL no RB is going to get to 1000 yards. Why do you think Manning threw almost 700 times last year?

TE - Clark is a good receiver but without Manning his value diminishes substantially. No one else on the roster at TE is worth anything w/out Manning.

WR - Wayne is a good player but I doubt he'd have developed without Manning (and without Harrison taking attention away from him). He would still produce. Garcon doesn't have a great chemistry with Manning so I'm not sure much would change. Collie, Gonzalez, etc, forget it. If the Colts got a competent backup, Wayne or Garcon might approach 1000 yards.

DL - Good pass-rushing DEs that don't try to play the run much. DT corps that looks better this year but is unproven.

LBs - Brackett is not that good and everyone else is a nobody. Small and easily pushed around. Not even that good in coverage anymore.

DBs - Bethea is great but can't make up for everyone else's mistakes. He has too many assignments. We have one, maybe two starting-material CBs and Powers gets hurt all the time.

Coaching - I'm not sure how much press this gets but the Colts have an embarrassing coaching staff. Caldwell is in over his head every game. No adjustments, no time management skills. DC Larry Coyer is old and has no idea how to use his pass rushers. Calls badly-timed LB blitzes using the smallest MLB in the league. And has the CBs play 10 yards off on 3rd and 4. Manning is basically the OC. OL coach is a former TE and this is his first-ever OL coaching gig. The QB and WR coaches switched jobs last year (WTF?).

Drafting - From 2007 - 2010, Bill Polian made 4 good picks out of 34. Jerraud Powers (CB, 3rd round, 2009), Austin Collie (WR, 4th rd, 2009), Pat McAfee (K/P, 7th rd, 2009), and Pierre Garcon (6th rd, 2008). The rest are unproven, injured too often, busts, went to other teams, or just never amounted to anything. I am just glad he's not running the team anymore.

The offense with a decent backup QB like Kitna or Garcia would be able to score here and there. The problem is the defense, which is badly coached and lacking in talent, would never give the offense enough opportunities to win games. With Manning I think this is a 10+ win team. If I am honest though I think they would be lucky to win 3 without him.

That is bad coaching and bad roster management. And meanwhile our freaking weird owner is too stuck in his haze of stoned tweeting to notice his team has been run into the ground. It is just stupid how much this team relies on Manning to succeed.

killxswitch
08-23-2011, 11:19 AM
Here's a breakdown of Polians drafting from 07 - 10 that I wrote on another forum.

07
Gonzalez - known slow healer, hurt too much to make a difference
Ugoh - "Nogoh", gave up a 1st and 3rd for him
D Hughes - is he still in the NFL?
Pitcock - "Quitcock"
Session - a good 4th rounder now playing against us for the Jags twice a year
Condren, Hall, Coe, Dawson - nobodies

08
Pollak - bust
Wheeler - can't keep his job
Tamme - decent fill-in for Clark when he's hurt
Howard - is he still in the NFL?
Santi - is he still in the NFL?
Justice - is he still in the NFL?
Hart - OK 6th round pick, cut and retired
Garcon - good 6th round pick, will he take the next step?
Richard - will probably not make it through camp

09
Brown - bust so far, will he make it through camp?
Moala - we'll see this year if he was worth a 2nd rounder
Powers - excellent 3rd rounder, hurt a lot
Collie - excellent 4th rounder if he can stay on the field
Taylor - didn't make it through his first camp
Painter - worst backup QB in the NFL, didn't need to be drafted to get him
McAfee - good pick in the 7th
Thomas - cut this year in camp

10
Hughes - disappointing 1st season, didn't play much and didn't do anything on special teams
Angerer - hard to tell, I think he would've been there in the 3rd or later
Thomas - injured in college, injured now, he'll never do anything
McClendon - too soon to know.
Eldridge - hurt all the time, hasn't made an impact when on the field.
Mathews - too soon to know.
Conner - too soon to know.
Fisher - is he still in the NFL?

34 picks from 07 - 10 and the four best picks are a good-but-often-injured CB, a WR with potential that drops passes, a concussion-prone slot WR, and a punter.

THAT is the reason the Colts were so active in free agency. Polian was at one time a great drafter. But he hasn't had a good draft since 06. For a team that builds through the draft, that is bad news. It's incredible the team hasn't missed the playoffs yet.

Bob Sanders Dreadlock
08-23-2011, 01:52 PM
2-14 say hello to Andrew Luck( ok Justin Blackmon whatever). Reggie Wayne was not the same player last year and i can't see someone stepping in and elevating the play of players like Pierre Garcon or Austin Collie. In turn the defense would be on the field a lot more and i don't think Frathis would be able to handle the extra snaps. I would never want another person leading the colts till Manning retires but it would be onteresting to see if someone like Favre was brought in just to show how much Manning puts this team on his back.

killxswitch
08-23-2011, 02:45 PM
This discussion further highlights why Manning has won more MVPs than any other player, even when he hasn't been the "best" QB statistically. With him the Colts are a SB contender. Without him they are a pile of dogshit.

Which is a really stupid way to build a team and why I laugh when people, especially non-Colts fans, talk about how great Bill Polian is.

San Diego Chicken
08-23-2011, 02:57 PM
5 years ago, perhaps they could have been a mediocre 5-8 win team without Manning, but the talent has really been whittled down. Now they'd most definitely be one of the worst teams in the AFC.

Cudders
08-23-2011, 03:05 PM
This discussion further highlights why Manning has won more MVPs than any other player, even when he hasn't been the "best" QB statistically. With him the Colts are a SB contender. Without him they are a pile of dogshit.

Which is a really stupid way to build a team and why I laugh when people, especially non-Colts fans, talk about how great Bill Polian is.

This, this, and more of this.

I cringe whenever I hear the puppets on ESPN talk about Bill Polian's prowess at working the draft. Was he a great talent evaluator at one time? Sure. But his track record the past few years speaks for itself. The Colts have experienced a decline in talent at every position except quarterback recently. The fact that they've remained a playoff mainstay despite Polian's unpublicized ineptitude is a testament to Peyton Manning's all-time greatness.

With regards to the topic, this team as currently constructed would struggle to win even a pair of games without No. 18 running the show. I think they would probably steal one somewhere along the line. Maybe even two. But it honestly wouldn't shock me if they went winless either. That roster would definitely have historically awful potential, especially if a skill player like Clark or Wayne went down to injury as well.

nepg
08-23-2011, 04:04 PM
They're like the Spurs without David Robinson... They are the worst team in the NFL without Manning. Quite easily.

Unbiased
08-23-2011, 05:03 PM
They would be terrible on offense. They'd have to turn to a mediocre running game even though they spent two 1st round picks on running backs. The o-line was a problem when they were protecting Manning who makes quick decisions and quick throws. Painter would get sacked 50 times. The defense makes plays and creates turnovers so they could get a few wins here and there but this thread is making me really happy and clouding reality so I need to get out of here.

Woody56
08-23-2011, 10:21 PM
One thing I will say in defense of the Polian drafting, it is much harder to find good players when your drafting in the bottom 5 of the draft pretty much every year.

BeerBaron
08-23-2011, 10:35 PM
One thing I will say in defense of the Polian drafting, it is much harder to find good players when your drafting in the bottom 5 of the draft pretty much every year.

http://www.whitesuburbanpunk.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/11/bill-belichick-rings.jpg

Not a problem for everybody...

TitanHope
08-23-2011, 10:47 PM
http://www.whitesuburbanpunk.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/11/bill-belichick-rings.jpg

Not a problem for everybody...

Doesn't count when the Raiders are tossing 1st RD'ers at him.

[PS. It looks like Belichick has Simpsons fingers in this pic.]

BeerBaron
08-23-2011, 11:33 PM
Doesn't count when the Raiders are tossing 1st RD'ers at him.

[PS. It looks like Belichick has Simpsons fingers in this pic.]

I'm sure the Colts could also scam the Raiders if they worked at it...they just haven't. I count that against the Colts.

descendency
08-23-2011, 11:49 PM
The Colts base their system around Manning, so when he comes out it's obviously going to be hard to replace him.

However, it really depends on why the Colts lose Manning. if they traded him (lol... yeah), then they'd get serious assets to put to building a team around another player. If he goes down for an injury, I think they'd probably see a significant shift in the schemes. Similarly, if he retired.

If Manning tore his ACL in the first quarter of the first game, I think they'd get 5 wins still. It's still a talented team and their coaching staff is better than it's given credit for.

Plus, to be perfectly honest, not every week in the NFL (or any sports league) does the best team win each week.

BeerBaron
08-24-2011, 12:08 AM
The Colts base their system around Manning, so when he comes out it's obviously going to be hard to replace him.

However, it really depends on why the Colts lose Manning. if they traded him (lol... yeah), then they'd get serious assets to put to building a team around another player. If he goes down for an injury, I think they'd probably see a significant shift in the schemes. Similarly, if he retired.

If Manning tore his ACL in the first quarter of the first game, I think they'd get 5 wins still. It's still a talented team and their coaching staff is better than it's given credit for.

Plus, to be perfectly honest, not every week in the NFL (or any sports league) does the best team win each week.

This was part of my original thought process when I said I thought they'd win 5 games. They would probably focus more heavily on running the ball and on the short passing game, and would adjust schemes accordingly. We'd probably see less of their receiving threat TEs and more emphasis on having them block.

And worst case scenario, if Carolina could win 2 games last year with Jimmy Clausen playing like a fish thrown onto dry land, Curtis Painter could QB the Colts to 2 wins.

wordofi
08-24-2011, 12:16 AM
The Colts, regardless of whether Peyton Manning plays all 16 games this season, really need to start looking for a replacement. He's 35 years old and in the twilight of his career. The Patriots already have a hypothetical replacement in Ryan Mallett. The Colts have neglected the backup quarterback position. Now, it may cost them.

wordofi
08-24-2011, 12:22 AM
It's about time a Colts fan set you guys straight.

Ha, who am I kidding. The Colts would win 4 games max without Manning. Zero if the team stuck with Painter the whole year. Since it is hard to have an intimate knowledge of a team you don't live and breathe, let me walk you through the roster, the coaching staff, Bill Polian's drafts since 2006, etc.

OL - Absolutely terrible starting in 2008. When Tarik Glenn retired Bill Polian had no idea what to do and never did figure it out. His son Chris is GM now and the OL looks like it has some promise with new starters but we haven't seen them play with Manning yet.

RB - It doesn't matter. With this OL no RB is going to get to 1000 yards. Why do you think Manning threw almost 700 times last year?

TE - Clark is a good receiver but without Manning his value diminishes substantially. No one else on the roster at TE is worth anything w/out Manning.

WR - Wayne is a good player but I doubt he'd have developed without Manning (and without Harrison taking attention away from him). He would still produce. Garcon doesn't have a great chemistry with Manning so I'm not sure much would change. Collie, Gonzalez, etc, forget it. If the Colts got a competent backup, Wayne or Garcon might approach 1000 yards.

DL - Good pass-rushing DEs that don't try to play the run much. DT corps that looks better this year but is unproven.

LBs - Brackett is not that good and everyone else is a nobody. Small and easily pushed around. Not even that good in coverage anymore.

DBs - Bethea is great but can't make up for everyone else's mistakes. He has too many assignments. We have one, maybe two starting-material CBs and Powers gets hurt all the time.

Coaching - I'm not sure how much press this gets but the Colts have an embarrassing coaching staff. Caldwell is in over his head every game. No adjustments, no time management skills. DC Larry Coyer is old and has no idea how to use his pass rushers. Calls badly-timed LB blitzes using the smallest MLB in the league. And has the CBs play 10 yards off on 3rd and 4. Manning is basically the OC. OL coach is a former TE and this is his first-ever OL coaching gig. The QB and WR coaches switched jobs last year (WTF?).

Drafting - From 2007 - 2010, Bill Polian made 4 good picks out of 34. Jerraud Powers (CB, 3rd round, 2009), Austin Collie (WR, 4th rd, 2009), Pat McAfee (K/P, 7th rd, 2009), and Pierre Garcon (6th rd, 2008). The rest are unproven, injured too often, busts, went to other teams, or just never amounted to anything. I am just glad he's not running the team anymore.

The offense with a decent backup QB like Kitna or Garcia would be able to score here and there. The problem is the defense, which is badly coached and lacking in talent, would never give the offense enough opportunities to win games. With Manning I think this is a 10+ win team. If I am honest though I think they would be lucky to win 3 without him.

That is bad coaching and bad roster management. And meanwhile our freaking weird owner is too stuck in his haze of stoned tweeting to notice his team has been run into the ground. It is just stupid how much this team relies on Manning to succeed.

In Freeney and Mathis' defense, they're 6'1" and 6'2" respectively. It's hard for them to not get engulfed by a 6'6" offensive tackle.

Woody56
08-24-2011, 12:23 AM
http://www.whitesuburbanpunk.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/11/bill-belichick-rings.jpg

Not a problem for everybody...

Patriots have been one of the worst drafting teams for the past 5 years

BeerBaron
08-24-2011, 12:35 AM
Patriots have been one of the worst drafting teams for the past 5 years

Last year alone, they matched the 4 players the Colts have drafted since 2007 (posted by KillSwitch earlier) who have been worth a damn with McCourty, Gronk, Hernandez and Mesko. Throw in Spikes and Cunningham who could still emerge as good players and in that one year, the Pats have drafted better than the Colts in the last 4 years combined. Plus Chung, Vollmer and Mayo in the years prior....the Colts would kill for some of those guys.

PLUS, the Pats continually trade for future picks.

Pats >>>>>> Colts when it comes to drafting recently.

hawkeye123
08-24-2011, 12:59 AM
This was part of my original thought process when I said I thought they'd win 5 games. They would probably focus more heavily on running the ball and on the short passing game, and would adjust schemes accordingly. We'd probably see less of their receiving threat TEs and more emphasis on having them block.

And worst case scenario, if Carolina could win 2 games last year with Jimmy Clausen playing like a fish thrown onto dry land, Curtis Painter could QB the Colts to 2 wins.

The Panthers barely won 2 games with Matt Moore starting. Clausen was a complete dud.

BeerBaron
08-24-2011, 01:01 AM
The Panthers barely won 2 games with Matt Moore starting. Clausen was a complete dud.

Well, regardless, they were a lousy team after all the injuries and they still won 2 games.

Woody56
08-24-2011, 01:11 AM
Last year alone, they matched the 4 players the Colts have drafted since 2007 (posted by KillSwitch earlier) who have been worth a damn with McCourty, Gronk, Hernandez and Mesko. Throw in Spikes and Cunningham who could still emerge as good players and in that one year, the Pats have drafted better than the Colts in the last 4 years combined. Plus Chung, Vollmer and Mayo in the years prior....the Colts would kill for some of those guys.

PLUS, the Pats continually trade for future picks.

Pats >>>>>> Colts when it comes to drafting recently.

'10 was there first good draft in a long time.

06

1 Laurence Maroney, RB, Minnesota - Out of the NFL
2 Chad Jackson, WR, Florida - Huge bust, spent last year in UFL
3 David Thomas, TE, Texas - Saints
4 Garret Mills, TE, Tulsa - 5 teams in 5 years
4 Stephen Gostkowski, K, Memphis - Only good player, but is a K
5 Ryan O'Callaghan , OT, California - Chiefs
6 Jeremy Mincey, OL/DE, Florida - Jags
6 Dan Stevenson, OL, Notre Dame - Out of the NFL
6 Le Kevin Smith, NT, Nebraska - Out of the NFL
7 Willie Andrews, CB/S, Baylor - Out of the NFL

This is considered by most Pats fans one of their worst drafts in team history

07

1 – Brandon Meriweather, S, Miami - Still on the team, but always hear Pats fans talk bad about him
4 - Kareem Brown, DL, Miami - Out of the NFL
5 - Clint Oldenburg, OL, Colorado State - Redskins
6 - Justin Rogers, LB, SMU - Out of the NFL
6 - Mike Richardson, DB, Notre Dame - Colts
6 - Justise Hairston, RB, Cen Conn - Out of the NFL
6 - Corey Hilliard, OL, OK St - Lions
7 - Oscar Lua, LB, USC - Out of the NFL
7 - Mike Elgin, OL, Iowa - Out of the NFL

Also considered one of the their worst drafts in team history. So now in a 2 year span, you have 2 players out of 19 that have contributed to the team and one is a K and the other is a fan least favorite.

08

1 - Jerod Mayo - LB, Tennessee - Success
2 - Terrence Wheatley, CB - Jags
3 - Shawn Crable, LB, Michigan - Out of the NFL
3 - Kevin O Connell, QB, SD St - Dolphins
4 - Jonathan Wilhite, CB, Auburn - Still on team, but on roster bubble
5 - Matt Slater, WR, UCLA - Still on team, ST only
6 - Bo Ruud, LB, Nebraska - Out of the NFL

So in three year span, 4 contributors out of 26 and two are special teamers only. One of the worst three spans in NFL draft history.

elway=goat
08-24-2011, 02:42 AM
I wanna see them without him play, we haven't so its all speculation. My first reaction, somewhere into the 4-6 range. They would be a bad team, but not historic bad like people are making them out to be. That's my first reaction to the thought of him not playing this season, and before I look over their schedule.

With him, they win 9-10 this season.

cmarq83
08-24-2011, 06:01 AM
'10 was there first good draft in a long time.

06

1 Laurence Maroney, RB, Minnesota - Out of the NFL
2 Chad Jackson, WR, Florida - Huge bust, spent last year in UFL
3 David Thomas, TE, Texas - Saints
4 Garret Mills, TE, Tulsa - 5 teams in 5 years
4 Stephen Gostkowski, K, Memphis - Only good player, but is a K
5 Ryan O'Callaghan , OT, California - Chiefs
6 Jeremy Mincey, OL/DE, Florida - Jags
6 Dan Stevenson, OL, Notre Dame - Out of the NFL
6 Le Kevin Smith, NT, Nebraska - Out of the NFL
7 Willie Andrews, CB/S, Baylor - Out of the NFL

This is considered by most Pats fans one of their worst drafts in team history

07

1 – Brandon Meriweather, S, Miami - Still on the team, but always hear Pats fans talk bad about him
4 - Kareem Brown, DL, Miami - Out of the NFL
5 - Clint Oldenburg, OL, Colorado State - Redskins
6 - Justin Rogers, LB, SMU - Out of the NFL
6 - Mike Richardson, DB, Notre Dame - Colts
6 - Justise Hairston, RB, Cen Conn - Out of the NFL
6 - Corey Hilliard, OL, OK St - Lions
7 - Oscar Lua, LB, USC - Out of the NFL
7 - Mike Elgin, OL, Iowa - Out of the NFL

Also considered one of the their worst drafts in team history. So now in a 2 year span, you have 2 players out of 19 that have contributed to the team and one is a K and the other is a fan least favorite.

08

1 - Jerod Mayo - LB, Tennessee - Success
2 - Terrence Wheatley, CB - Jags
3 - Shawn Crable, LB, Michigan - Out of the NFL
3 - Kevin O Connell, QB, SD St - Dolphins
4 - Jonathan Wilhite, CB, Auburn - Still on team, but on roster bubble
5 - Matt Slater, WR, UCLA - Still on team, ST only
6 - Bo Ruud, LB, Nebraska - Out of the NFL

So in three year span, 4 contributors out of 26 and two are special teamers only. One of the worst three spans in NFL draft history.

Yet you neglected to mention the 2 most recent years which were really good drafts, and they've had some UDFA steals along the way (Guyton, Lawfirm).

Brent
08-24-2011, 06:10 AM
I thought Dan Orlovsky was the #2. Is that incorrect?

killxswitch
08-24-2011, 08:46 AM
It's still a talented team and their coaching staff is better than it's given credit for.

If they'd built on the progress made in 09 I might agree with you. But the '10 season completely removed any possibility of that being true. I would take the Bengals coaching staff over what we have.

I thought Dan Orlovsky was the #2. Is that incorrect?

Orlovsky might be the QB3 if they decide to keep 3 but it appears the Colts are going to stick with Painter as the primary backup for some reason.

SolidGold
08-24-2011, 08:56 AM
If they'd built on the progress made in 09 I might agree with you. But the '10 season completely removed any possibility of that being true. I would take the Bengals coaching staff over what we have.



Orlovsky might be the QB3 if they decide to keep 3 but it appears the Colts are going to stick with Painter as the primary backup for some reason.

Manning is pretty much the offensive coordinator. Caldwell seems a little outmatched in games. The players may like him and he seems like a real good guy but without Manning he probably would be out of a job. Once Manning is gone I expect their to be huge turnover in that organization.

The Colts will need to draft his eventual replacement in the next year or two. I like that they addressed the offensive line early in this draft.

Brothgar
08-24-2011, 10:13 AM
I'm going to say 2 wins unless they trade for a Ryan Mallett or something right now there are probably 5 backups who could be a starter for the Colts and get 6+ wins

Matthew Jones
08-24-2011, 10:16 AM
So they'll be going with Kerry Collins if Manning isn't ready. I think they could still win a few games. I'd say six.

nepg
08-24-2011, 10:18 AM
'10 was there first good draft in a long time.

06

1 Laurence Maroney, RB, Minnesota - Out of the NFL
2 Chad Jackson, WR, Florida - Huge bust, spent last year in UFL
3 David Thomas, TE, Texas - Saints
4 Garret Mills, TE, Tulsa - 5 teams in 5 years
4 Stephen Gostkowski, K, Memphis - Only good player, but is a K
5 Ryan O'Callaghan , OT, California - Chiefs
6 Jeremy Mincey, OL/DE, Florida - Jags
6 Dan Stevenson, OL, Notre Dame - Out of the NFL
6 Le Kevin Smith, NT, Nebraska - Out of the NFL
7 Willie Andrews, CB/S, Baylor - Out of the NFL

This is considered by most Pats fans one of their worst drafts in team history

07

1 – Brandon Meriweather, S, Miami - Still on the team, but always hear Pats fans talk bad about him
4 - Kareem Brown, DL, Miami - Out of the NFL
5 - Clint Oldenburg, OL, Colorado State - Redskins
6 - Justin Rogers, LB, SMU - Out of the NFL
6 - Mike Richardson, DB, Notre Dame - Colts
6 - Justise Hairston, RB, Cen Conn - Out of the NFL
6 - Corey Hilliard, OL, OK St - Lions
7 - Oscar Lua, LB, USC - Out of the NFL
7 - Mike Elgin, OL, Iowa - Out of the NFL

Also considered one of the their worst drafts in team history. So now in a 2 year span, you have 2 players out of 19 that have contributed to the team and one is a K and the other is a fan least favorite.

08

1 - Jerod Mayo - LB, Tennessee - Success
2 - Terrence Wheatley, CB - Jags
3 - Shawn Crable, LB, Michigan - Out of the NFL
3 - Kevin O Connell, QB, SD St - Dolphins
4 - Jonathan Wilhite, CB, Auburn - Still on team, but on roster bubble
5 - Matt Slater, WR, UCLA - Still on team, ST only
6 - Bo Ruud, LB, Nebraska - Out of the NFL

So in three year span, 4 contributors out of 26 and two are special teamers only. One of the worst three spans in NFL draft history.

What? They replaced the entire roster in the last 3 (which you conveniently left out) drafts and have maintained their dominance over the AFC East... Lay off the crack.

And most people graded the '06 draft as one of - if not the best draft that year.

killxswitch
08-24-2011, 10:59 AM
So do I jump out a window now or do I wait to hear that Manning isn't going to start the season?

BeerBaron
08-24-2011, 11:00 AM
You know **** is bad when Kerry Collins represents an upgrade.

killxswitch
08-24-2011, 11:06 AM
If Manning is this bad off then I have no interest in a 6-10 season. Just tank and get Luck next year. He can sit for 2 years and be the the Steve Young to Manning's Joe Montana.

BeerBaron
08-24-2011, 11:09 AM
I like next year's potential QBs over this past years....I'd have any of Luck, Barkley, or Landry Jones rated higher than than the more raw, more heavily flawed prospects of last year.

I don't think the Colts will take a QB, even if they have a high pick. The hubris of the Polians probably wouldn't allow for it. If you had had a top 10 pick, they'll probably draft a WR or RB. Then they'll ride Manning until he's completely shot.

The only reason the 49ers got Steve Young is because he busted with the Bucs first then they took him off the trash heap. The Packers only got Aaron Rodgers because he fell much further than anyone would have expected.

killxswitch
08-24-2011, 11:24 AM
I like next year's potential QBs over this past years....I'd have any of Luck, Barkley, or Landry Jones rated higher than than the more raw, more heavily flawed prospects of last year.

I don't think the Colts will take a QB, even if they have a high pick. The hubris of the Polians probably wouldn't allow for it. If you had had a top 10 pick, they'll probably draft a WR or RB. Then they'll ride Manning until he's completely shot.

The only reason the 49ers got Steve Young is because he busted with the Bucs first then they took him off the trash heap. The Packers only got Aaron Rodgers because he fell much further than anyone would have expected.

I would not yet lump Chris Polian in with his dad. The '11 draft was his first and it at least has the potential to be a very good one. Irsay needs to put the bong down for a few minutes and realize Bill has lost whatever he had, it's his time to go for good. He doesn't need to hang around deciding when to interject his nebulous authority.

Giantsfan1080
08-24-2011, 11:28 AM
Kerry Collins might not retire and instead sign with the Colts? Yikes they are desperate.

killxswitch
08-24-2011, 11:49 AM
Kerry Collins might not retire and instead sign with the Colts? Yikes they are desperate.

It's not a might, he has signed with the Colts.

Jvig43
08-24-2011, 12:57 PM
If Manning is this bad off then I have no interest in a 6-10 season. Just tank and get Luck next year. He can sit for 2 years and be the the Steve Young to Manning's Joe Montana.

At least you guys will get good draft position when your Qb goes down, we just went 11-5 to miss the playoffs and pick in the middle of the pack. But The Colts getting luck would be just unfair.

V.I.P
08-24-2011, 12:58 PM
Starting to think Manning won't be 100%

killxswitch
08-24-2011, 01:21 PM
At least you guys will get good draft position when your Qb goes down, we just went 11-5 to miss the playoffs and pick in the middle of the pack. But The Colts getting luck would be just unfair.

Would you rather have an organization run so poorly that losing one player completely unravels the whole team? I'd love to have a system where a backup can play well enough with the rest of the team to get 11 wins.

Don't get me wrong, I hate the Pats, NE sucks, etc etc. But I would love to have an NE-caliber coaching staff and similar roster depth.

Woody56
08-24-2011, 04:18 PM
What? They replaced the entire roster in the last 3 (which you conveniently left out) drafts and have maintained their dominance over the AFC East... Lay off the crack.

And most people graded the '06 draft as one of - if not the best draft that year.

I said the 2010 draft was a good one, but the 09 draft is a C at best. And who cares about what the draft grade was after the draft, it turned out to be an F.

Jvig43
08-24-2011, 05:03 PM
The patriots have had a few years of bad drafting, omg seriously they are so bad at drafting that they somehow manage to be playoff bound year in and out. There are far worse drafting teams in the last ten years than the patriots, so you can sit there and throw a couple of years at us but again we pretty much hit on every pick last year and this year is looking like it will be solid as well, non of us Pats fans are really concerned.

nepg
08-24-2011, 05:57 PM
Would you rather have an organization run so poorly that losing one player completely unravels the whole team? I'd love to have a system where a backup can play well enough with the rest of the team to get 11 wins.

Don't get me wrong, I hate the Pats, NE sucks, etc etc. But I would love to have an NE-caliber coaching staff and similar roster depth.
But, hey... Andrew Luck!

Shane P. Hallam
08-24-2011, 06:44 PM
I stick by my 6-7 games, with Kerry Collins especially.

tjsunstein
08-25-2011, 08:33 AM
They'll manage a handful of wins with Kerry Collins, I'd say .500. Then Manning returns.

Reggie Wayne is apparently real confident with Painter at QB. His quote about bringing Collins in was interesting.

We don't even know him, we ain't vanilla, man, we ain't no simple offense. So for him to can come in here and be the starter, I don't see it. I think that's a step back.

Ness
08-25-2011, 08:42 AM
If Manning is this bad off then I have no interest in a 6-10 season. Just tank and get Luck next year. He can sit for 2 years and be the the Steve Young to Manning's Joe Montana.

Except Manning can play for maybe five more years, if not potentially more. Paying Andrew Luck to sit on the bench would be pretty dumb. The Colts should use that opportunity to actually get better players around Manning so they could actually have the chance to win a game if he or any other franchise quarterback ever went down.

Jvig43
08-25-2011, 08:46 AM
Wayne shouldn't have said anything, Collins is going to be alot better of an option than Painter.

tjsunstein
08-25-2011, 08:53 AM
Except Manning can play for maybe five more years, if not potentially more. Paying Andrew Luck to sit on the bench would be pretty dumb. The Colts should use that opportunity to actually get better players around Manning so they could actually have the chance to win a game if he or any other franchise quarterback ever went down.
Couldn't agree more. The Colts could really use an O-Line (Khalil, Martin, Rieff). QB is not where they go in the first, second, or even third round as long as Peyton breathes. Especially when a vet, such as Collins, can be had without sacrificing a pick.

YAYareaRB
08-25-2011, 09:00 AM
Kerry Collins.. ill say 7-8 wins. its not like hes throwing to nobodies.

Bob Sanders Dreadlock
08-25-2011, 09:05 AM
Kerry Collins.. ill say 7-8 wins. its not like hes throwing to nobodies.

The only person i have real confidence in is Dallas Clark. Reggie Wayne is old. An you really think he can elevate the play of players like Pierre Garcon, Gonzo, or Blair White? White and Garcon would be practice squad players without Peyton Manthang.

Ness
08-25-2011, 09:12 AM
The only person i have real confidence in is Dallas Clark. Reggie Wayne is old. An you really think he can elevate the play of players like Pierre Garcon, Gonzo, or Blair White? White and Garcon would be practice squad players without Peyton Manthang.

Since when is 32 old for a wide receiver?

killxswitch
08-25-2011, 10:33 AM
If Manning's neck is bad enough to miss games this year he will not play 5 more years. Without the neck injury I would expect another 5 years but this isn't a new problem with his neck, and if it's really bad enough for him to lose his consecutive starts streak, it's bad enough that I doubt he plays more than 3 more years.

Ness
08-25-2011, 10:40 AM
If Manning's neck is bad enough to miss games this year he will not play 5 more years. Without the neck injury I would expect another 5 years but this isn't a new problem with his neck, and if it's really bad enough for him to lose his consecutive starts streak, it's bad enough that I doubt he plays more than 3 more years.

Regardless that doesn't warrant drafting Andrew Luck if the Colts had the first overall pick. Unless Peyton Manning can't play again, it doesn't warrant the selection if the Colts had it. Brady lost his consecutive starts streak a few years back and he's coming off an MVP season. Manning, just like Brady has been this tough for years. His rehab has been slow though, due in part because he was unable to work out with team trainers during the NFL lockout.

jth1331
08-25-2011, 10:46 AM
Shoot, I'd say if the Colts tanked enough to get the 1st overall pick, trade down and really load up and get depth on the roster.

killxswitch
08-25-2011, 10:47 AM
Regardless that doesn't warrant drafting Andrew Luck if the Colts had the first overall pick. Unless Peyton Manning can't play again, it doesn't warrant the selection if the Colts had it. Brady lost his consecutive starts streak a few years back and he's coming off an MVP season. Manning, just like Brady has been this tough for years. His rehab has been slow though, due in part because he was unable to work out with team trainers during the NFL lockout.

Which is one of the dumbest things I've ever heard. He is a multi-millionaire. He could go through rehab anywhere he wanted. If he actually waited to do any rehab at all until after the lockout then he really screwed himself and the team.

Ness
08-25-2011, 11:00 AM
Which is one of the dumbest things I've ever heard. He is a multi-millionaire. He could go through rehab anywhere he wanted. If he actually waited to do any rehab at all until after the lockout then he really screwed himself and the team.

It may just be a matter of working with certain individuals that he's accustomed to and certain trainers being familiar with how his body operates and how to handle it. Finding professional NFL trainers to help you rehab isn't easy especially when you aren't allowed to associate with them.

Back to the main point, if last year proved anything it's that the Colts need to surround Manning with more talent. They barely made 10-6 last year with Manning doing way too much for that team. It's time to build a better supporting cast, something the Colts haven't had in like five years.

killxswitch
08-25-2011, 11:03 AM
It may just be a matter of working with certain individuals that he's accustomed to and certain trainers being familiar with how his body operates and how to handle it.

Like I said, stupid. This is the same type of thinking that at one time forced him to take polaroid pictures of his wardrobe because he couldn't just look at his clothes and figure out if they matched.

I understand being more comfortable with this or that medical person, but that is not a good reason to put rehab off for months, especially if it results in missed games.

Ness
08-25-2011, 11:34 AM
Like I said, stupid. This is the same type of thinking that at one time forced him to take polaroid pictures of his wardrobe because he couldn't just look at his clothes and figure out if they matched.

I understand being more comfortable with this or that medical person, but that is not a good reason to put rehab off for months, especially if it results in missed games.

I'm not assuming he put it off, just that it went potentially went slower with personnel that he wasn't used to deal with and they weren't used to dealing with him.

This is deviating from the main point we were talking about which is if the Colts were in position to draft Luck they should pass unless Peyton Manning has no chance to ever play in the NFL again. They need to build that team up and not just keep riding Manning and/or give it to another rookie quarterback and expect him to be the next Peyton Manning. Not every quarterback can carry a team by themselves for years nor should one have to.

killxswitch
08-25-2011, 03:52 PM
I'm not assuming he put it off, just that it went potentially went slower with personnel that he wasn't used to deal with and they weren't used to dealing with him.

This is deviating from the main point we were talking about which is if the Colts were in position to draft Luck they should pass unless Peyton Manning has no chance to ever play in the NFL again. They need to build that team up and not just keep riding Manning and/or give it to another rookie quarterback and expect him to be the next Peyton Manning. Not every quarterback can carry a team by themselves for years nor should one have to.

Luck would be on a rookie contract so it's unlikely his deal would destroy the teams' salary cap figures. Freeney and Manning are both coming off the books in 3-5 years so there'd be plenty of money to get other players for whoever ends up being the next QB, Luck or whoever. I don't think you pass on a franchise QB of the future when Manning's age and health are where they are.

niel89
08-25-2011, 04:19 PM
If they are at #1, they have to take Luck. Manning is not young enough to pass on that opportunity. Could you imagine Luck getting 3 years to sit and learn behind Manning? I know Manning needs more help all around him but the opportunity to go from a franchise qb to another young franchise qb is just too much of a great opportunity. You could set your team up for the next 2-3 years, or you could set it up for the next 10 years.

If anything they trade the pick/take Luck and get a huge amount of picks/players in exchange.

I actually think that Collins so just alright enough for them to win enough games to not be #1. He is a big step up from Painter in experience.

BeerBaron
08-25-2011, 04:20 PM
So, I heard this once or twice and chalked it up to crackpotted-ness, but it's starting to slip in more and more into what I read and watch...

Neck injuries are pretty bad, and often chronic. Could this end up being a career ender for Manning?

Ness
08-25-2011, 04:33 PM
If they are at #1, they have to take Luck. Manning is not young enough to pass on that opportunity. Could you imagine Luck getting 3 years to sit and learn behind Manning? I know Manning needs more help all around him but the opportunity to go from a franchise qb to another young franchise qb is just too much of a great opportunity. You could set your team up for the next 2-3 years, or you could set it up for the next 10 years.

If anything they trade the pick/take Luck and get a huge amount of picks/players in exchange.

I actually think that Collins so just alright enough for them to win enough games to not be #1. He is a big step up from Painter in experience.

They need to load up on players instead of getting Luck, which wouldn't be a bad alternative. It really depends on the situation. If Manning were to miss the entire season for example, or a good amount of it and still could come back as he was before, then drafting Luck might be a really bad idea. You'd be paying someone a good amount of money to sit on the bench while the rest of the team continues to get worse. Honestly that team may be the worst in the NFL if Manning is not under center.

The only way I'd see the Colts taking Luck for sure is if Manning probably wouldn't be able to come back.

scottyboy
08-25-2011, 04:40 PM
Collins+ 2 Rutgers players on D= at least 5 wins alone. 'Specially if Collins is drunk.

Ness
08-25-2011, 04:42 PM
Luck would be on a rookie contract so it's unlikely his deal would destroy the teams' salary cap figures. Freeney and Manning are both coming off the books in 3-5 years so there'd be plenty of money to get other players for whoever ends up being the next QB, Luck or whoever. I don't think you pass on a franchise QB of the future when Manning's age and health are where they are.

I agree to a point, but at the same time the situation has to be played really carefully. Because it can come back to bite your franchise, as it did mine.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-SsNwJIbuM1c/Thq3pHPXzLI/AAAAAAAAAXE/QVgdADoYGmg/s1600/montana_chiefs.jpg

BeerBaron
08-25-2011, 04:43 PM
I agree to a point, but at the same time the situation has to be played really carefully. Because it can come back to bite your franchise.


ummmmmmmmmmmmmmm....no?

http://pointafter891.files.wordpress.com/2010/02/young.jpg

Ness
08-25-2011, 04:49 PM
ummmmmmmmmmmmmmm....no?

http://pointafter891.files.wordpress.com/2010/02/young.jpg

Yeah, but we got Steve Young for a king's ransom. We weren't paying a high end rookie to sit on the bench. There might be a good amount of pressure to start Andrew Luck and or trade Manning before Manning wants to go, etc. Who knows, Manning might be as humble as Joe was and ask to be traded himself.

Brodeur
08-25-2011, 04:55 PM
Yeah, but we got Steve Young for a king's ransom. We weren't paying a high end rookie to sit on the bench. There might be a good amount of pressure to start Andrew Luck and or trade Manning before Manning wants to go, etc. Who knows, Manning might be as humble as Joe was and ask to be traded himself.

A king's ransom? A 2nd round pick and 4th round pick is a king's ransom?

descendency
08-25-2011, 04:56 PM
A king's ransom? A 2nd round pick and 4th round pick is a king's ransom?

Imagine what a 1st rounder would be...

Ness
08-25-2011, 05:06 PM
A king's ransom? A 2nd round pick and 4th round pick is a king's ransom?

For a Hall of Fame quarterback? Yeah.

BeerBaron
08-25-2011, 05:06 PM
Imagine what a 1st rounder would be...

Emperor's ransom.

And no one ever commented....could this be a career ender for Manning?

Also, I think if he misses more than just the first week...say a couple of weeks, and the Colts season starts to tank...like 1-4 after 5 weeks or something...they might just sit him to try and get him fully healthy rather than risk further injury by playing him in a lost season.

Raiderz4Life
08-25-2011, 05:23 PM
For a Hall of Fame quarterback? Yeah.

When you say you got steve young for a king's ransom....what you're saying is you gave up a lot to get him. Which you didn't.

Ness
08-25-2011, 05:46 PM
When you say you got steve young for a king's ransom....what you're saying is you gave up a lot to get him. Which you didn't.

Excuse me. That is actually what I meant. We didn't give up a lot for Steve Young.

CC.SD
08-25-2011, 06:31 PM
A King's ransom, ie. the amount you would have to give up to recover a King if in fact he had been kingnapped, usually meaning a lot.

Ness
08-25-2011, 07:31 PM
Too bad the Colts couldn't sign Marc Bugler.

BeerBaron
08-25-2011, 07:33 PM
They tried to sign Hasselbeck:

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/08/25/colts-inquired-about-hasselbeck-last-month/

J-Mike88
08-25-2011, 07:39 PM
So, I heard this once or twice and chalked it up to crackpotted-ness, but it's starting to slip in more and more into what I read and watch...

Neck injuries are pretty bad, and often chronic. Could this end up being a career ender for Manning?
It's possible.
Sterling Sharpe, and Terrance Murphy are 2 former Packer WRs who's careers were ended because of the neck issues.
Everyone knows about Sterling, but Murphy was a rookie who looked like a possible Greg Jennings, or James Jones, before his neck was hurt.

Neither guy was paralyzed or crippled or anything, but the condition of the neck was very bad and it was too risky to keep playing football.

Manning already had surgery. So I worry about that.... especially since he's my fricking QB in my keeper-league!

killxswitch
08-25-2011, 09:18 PM
I think it's too early to start talking about this ending his career. But then I thought talk about him not starting the season was premature.

BeerBaron
08-25-2011, 09:25 PM
I think it's too early to start talking about this ending his career. But then I thought talk about him not starting the season was premature.

Neck injuries, or pretty much anything involving the spine, are serious business. Plenty of careers have been ended by it and like I said, it tends to be chronic.

Just something to think about I suppose.

What I think is a more likely possible scenario is that if he misses the first few games, and the Colts find themselves in an early hole, like 1-3, 1-4 kind of hole, they may sit Manning the whole year to make sure he's healthy rather than risk further injury bringing him back into a losing campaign. The coaches definitely wouldn't like that, but one bad season won't get the Polians run out of town.

Pat Sims 90
08-25-2011, 09:27 PM
Specking of Manning ending his career. Any chance he becomes a coach in the NFL.

BeerBaron
08-25-2011, 09:31 PM
Specking of Manning ending his career. Any chance he becomes a coach in the NFL.

Maybe. I think he could make a lot more money with a job in the media though...more of the bigger stars tend to do that than become coaches. Most of the player-turned-coaches tend to be guys who had lesser careers it seems.

Bengalsrocket
08-25-2011, 10:01 PM
Specking of Manning ending his career. Any chance he becomes a coach in the NFL.

Manning is pretty charismatic and clearly not afraid of the camera. He would make a lot more money and work a lot less hours being a broadcaster / analyst.

Also, I feel like when most players go back to be a coach, it's because they have something to prove. Manning has already accomplished everything he needed to be in the HoF and I doubt he feels any need to prove himself further.

killxswitch
08-25-2011, 11:03 PM
IMO the real superstars don't make very good coaches. Larry Bird was the exception to that. I think he could be effective at it but I'm not sure that's really what he wants to do. Not at the NFL level anyway.

jrdrylie
08-26-2011, 07:43 AM
Too bad the Colts couldn't sign Marc Bugler.

http://assets.sbnation.com/assets/299731/NotSureIfSerious.jpg

Marc Bulger is garbage. He is brittle, starting only 16 games in a season once. His TD:INT ratio is awful. In eight years as a starter, he had one very good season, one pretty good season, two decent short seasons, and then four seasons of crap. I think I'd rather have Collins.

Matthew Jones
08-26-2011, 08:07 AM
I actually think Manning might enjoy coaching more than broadcasting, call it a hunch. Regardless, it's way too early to talk about the end of this guy's career considering the contract he just got.

jsagan77
08-30-2011, 02:08 AM
IMO the real superstars don't make very good coaches. Larry Bird was the exception to that. I think he could be effective at it but I'm not sure that's really what he wants to do. Not at the NFL level anyway.

A big part of that is because most of them are egotistical people who have no clue how to lead men... They lead by example because they are typically more gifted than their peers so when they are given a leadership role outside of being a player they have no clue how to teach or motivate. Manning I believe is the exception to that rule. He's superiorly gifted, cerebral, and a leader of men so I don't see anything that would detract from him being a good coach if he chose to.

killxswitch
08-30-2011, 08:42 AM
Things are looking a lot less doomy and gloomy!

http://www.indystar.com/article/20110829/SPORTS03/110829014/Manning-s-goal-Return-last-week-preseason

Doesn't necessarily mean anything, he obviously wasn't going to start the season on the PUP list, but it is a small step in the right direction.

Giantsfan1080
09-02-2011, 06:34 PM
Schefter reporting that the Colts are likely to start Collins in Week 1.

CDCB14
09-03-2011, 12:19 PM
They are a D-1AA college team without manning. 2-14, on a good day.

killxswitch
09-03-2011, 01:17 PM
Schefter reporting that the Colts are likely to start Collins in Week 1.

He's been wrong before. I don't think the Colts even know what they're going to do.

sensesoap
09-04-2011, 02:17 AM
4-5 wins with Curtis Painter.

jmalloy
09-04-2011, 04:07 AM
Colts will be a piece of cake without manning on their side!LOL

Saints-Tigers
09-04-2011, 06:08 AM
I still don't think he misses the opener. I don't think Indy can keep him off the field.

ElectricEye
09-04-2011, 07:48 PM
http://www.bigcatcountry.com/2011/9/4/2405079/report-peyton-manning-needs-a-2nd-surgery-out-indefinitely


An Indianapolis radio host that goes by the name JMV is reporting on his Twitter that the Colts issues at quarterback could be worse than they've been letting on.


Been told by multi sources that QB P Manning needs a 2nd neck procedure. Will remain out indefinitely.Called #colts and waiting on response.

REAAAAAALLLLLLY early and not picked up credibly yet, but I just saw this and thought I would post it here. That would be a major, major blow.

BeerBaron
09-04-2011, 07:57 PM
http://www.bigcatcountry.com/2011/9/4/2405079/report-peyton-manning-needs-a-2nd-surgery-out-indefinitely

REAAAAAALLLLLLY early and not picked up credibly yet, but I just saw this and thought I would post it here. That would be a major, major blow.

August 25:

So, I heard this once or twice and chalked it up to crackpotted-ness, but it's starting to slip in more and more into what I read and watch...

Neck injuries are pretty bad, and often chronic. Could this end up being a career ender for Manning?

I can see it now. He misses the first few weeks and the Colts fall into an early hole. They decide to put him on IR while he has that 2nd surgery hoping that he'll be totally healthy by 2012.

Rob S
09-04-2011, 08:26 PM
If the Colts get Luck I am going to be furious.

JBCX
09-04-2011, 08:28 PM
JimIrsay also tweeted "There was the Rams-K Warner Sup year./ There was Patriot 2001-Brady Sup.year.--- Every year. is interesting n unpredictable in NFL!!!!"

Which basically sounds as if he's setting up the fans to accept the potential of a Curtis Painter to be the next Kurt Warner / Tom Brady surprise.

But he probably won't be. If Manning misses the season, in all likelihood the Colts would have a legit. shot at Andrew Luck. And then they'd have the next Manning for the next decade+. Could you imagine that? A seamless transition from elite QB to elite QB? That would be the most amazing move ever by Irsay if he could pull it off.

They have stiff competition from Seattle though.

Brodeur
09-04-2011, 08:30 PM
JimIrsay also tweeted "There was the Rams-K Warner Sup year./ There was Patriot 2001-Brady Sup.year.--- Every year. is interesting n unpredictable in NFL!!!!"

Which basically sounds as if he's setting up the fans to accept the potential of a Curtis Painter to be the next Kurt Warner / Tom Brady surprise.

Bahahahahahahahahahaha. I'd say he's more like the next Rusty Smith, in that he is absolutely awful.

descendency
09-04-2011, 08:38 PM
JimIrsay also tweeted "There was the Rams-K Warner Sup year./ There was Patriot 2001-Brady Sup.year.--- Every year. is interesting n unpredictable in NFL!!!!"

Which basically sounds as if he's setting up the fans to accept the potential of a Curtis Painter to be the next Kurt Warner / Tom Brady surprise.

Maybe he should start talking about Richard Seymour and Andrew Luck. . .

(yea, that's low. Considering how much I like and respect Manning)

BeerBaron
09-04-2011, 08:45 PM
JimIrsay also tweeted "There was the Rams-K Warner Sup year./ There was Patriot 2001-Brady Sup.year.--- Every year. is interesting n unpredictable in NFL!!!!"

Which basically sounds as if he's setting up the fans to accept the potential of a Curtis Painter to be the next Kurt Warner / Tom Brady surprise.

But he probably won't be. If Manning misses the season, in all likelihood the Colts would have a legit. shot at Andrew Luck. And then they'd have the next Manning for the next decade+. Could you imagine that? A seamless transition from elite QB to elite QB? That would be the most amazing move ever by Irsay if he could pull it off.

They have stiff competition from Seattle though.

I think a 2-14 year with Kerry Collins/Curtis Painter at QB represents a pretty large seam...

Regardless, things look bad for the Colts right now.

JBCX
09-04-2011, 08:46 PM
I think a 2-14 year with Kerry Collins/Curtis Painter at QB represents a pretty large seam...


This one year will be brutal, but it will be seamless compared to what teams such as the Bills and the Dolphins have endured in the years following the retirements of their last great franchise QBs.

SolidGold
09-04-2011, 08:50 PM
That would be something if Manning does need additional surgery. Without him the Colts have to easily be the favorite to be worst team in the league. That whole team is built around Manning. Luck to the Colts would just leave me dumbfounded. It is just another thing that makes football great.

BeerBaron
09-04-2011, 09:15 PM
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/09/04/bill-polian-on-manning-report-i-dont-know-anything-about-that/

Don’t go thinking Manning’s fine+will play in 7 days at Houston. I’m starting to believe he won’t. [Kerry Collins] could be a pretty smart $4m buy. . . . Talked to an authority on Peyton surgery this weekend. Learned it’s all about nerve regeneration. You can’t rush Mother Nature.

Nerve regeneration....ick.

descendency
09-04-2011, 09:34 PM
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/09/04/bill-polian-on-manning-report-i-dont-know-anything-about-that/



Nerve regeneration....ick.

19000 posts... wow.

And Wow that sucks. Manning to the PUP/IR? Can you PUP him after week 1?

Smooth Criminal
09-04-2011, 09:38 PM
Doesn't sound good for Manning. I'll be dissapointed to see him miss the season or just some games even, but it will be it would be interesting to see just how bad the Colts would be offensivly without him.

killxswitch
09-04-2011, 09:50 PM
Per Schefter/Mort, there is no surgery scheduled but they are re-evaluating Manning because of "slow progress".
Doesn't sound good but it's not armageddon for Colts fans yet.

V.I.P
09-04-2011, 09:57 PM
Let's say Manning is put on IR, Colts draft Luck and Manning comes back next year, and balls out for a couple more years. Luck sits, and learns from Manning. Luck takes over, and the Colts are a power-house again for the next decade.

hehe

killxswitch
09-04-2011, 10:02 PM
Let's say Manning is put on IR, Colts draft Luck and Manning comes back next year, and balls out for a couple more years. Luck sits, and learns from Manning. Luck takes offer, and the Colts are a power-house again for the next decade.

hehe

If it worked out that way it'd be worth a year in the toilet.

Really, if Manning goes on IR there is no point in trying to win any games. 6 wins just means a mediocre draft spot.

Fadetoblack
09-04-2011, 10:08 PM
Let's say Manning is put on IR, Colts draft Luck and Manning comes back next year, and balls out for a couple more years. Luck sits, and learns from Manning. Luck takes offer, and the Colts are a power-house again for the next decade.

hehe

http://images.wikia.com/nfl/images/1/1c/BillPolian.jpg

Ness
09-04-2011, 10:08 PM
Per Schefter/Mort, there is no surgery scheduled but they are re-evaluating Manning because of "slow progress".
Doesn't sound good but it's not armageddon for Colts fans yet.

Even if Manning doesn't play, I could see Houston losing at home in week 1.

Ness
09-04-2011, 10:09 PM
Let's say Manning is put on IR, Colts draft Luck and Manning comes back next year, and balls out for a couple more years. Luck sits, and learns from Manning. Luck takes offer, and the Colts are a power-house again for the next decade.

hehe

I'm sure the Irsay family will have fun with both of those contracts.

JBCX
09-04-2011, 10:14 PM
I'm sure the Irsay family will have fun with both of those contracts.

Rookie contracts are no longer albatrosses.

Andrew Luck at #1 overall will come surprisingly cheaply compared to past #1 picks such as Sam Bradford.

Ness
09-04-2011, 10:33 PM
Rookie contracts are no longer albatrosses.

Andrew Luck at #1 overall will come surprisingly cheaply compared to past #1 picks such as Sam Bradford.

It will still be a good amount of money though.

Rob S
09-04-2011, 11:26 PM
It will still be a good amount of money though.

Well worth it. Honestly, it is tough to argue against the Colts bombing this year being the best possible thing for them. Best case scenario they get Luck. Even if they miss out on #1 overall, they can go for Barkley or replace Reggie Wayne with yet another stud for Peyton to shape in the time he has left. All of those things improve the team in the long run. If they don't get a high choice, they are going to have to go into full blown rebuild mode with 3-4 years. Avoiding a complete rebuild would be ridiculous.

Ness
09-04-2011, 11:55 PM
Well worth it. Honestly, it is tough to argue against the Colts bombing this year being the best possible thing for them. Best case scenario they get Luck. Even if they miss out on #1 overall, they can go for Barkley or replace Reggie Wayne with yet another stud for Peyton to shape in the time he has left. All of those things improve the team in the long run. If they don't get a high choice, they are going to have to go into full blown rebuild mode with 3-4 years. Avoiding a complete rebuild would be ridiculous.

I've never been a fan of "bombing a season" for a few reasons. First and foremost, it's the integrity of the game. You play to win it. Losing is bad, but giving up is always going to be worse. A lot of these players put a good amount of time and effort into their craft. It really isn't fair to them to put their bodies on the line just so a franchise can revel at the idea of rebuilding. A lot of those same players are constantly fighting for their jobs. They have to perform well to increase their chances of being on the team going forward.

Another reason is that nothing is certain when it comes to the NFL Draft. I definitely would love to have someone like Andrew Luck play for the 49ers, but I wouldn't be entirely surprised if he ends up like the next Heath Shuler, or just not close to the hype that everyone is pegging him for. Not saying it will happen, but I am saying that I wouldn't be surprised and that to bomb the season in the hopes that the franchise can be revived by one vital player that isn't even for sure going to be a good player is foolish. I like the idea of my team actually doing it's homework on a lot of other players in case some like Andrew Luck isn't an option instead of forgetting about the current season and rolling the dice assuming he'll be there injury-free waiting to be picked first.

Regardless of where an NFL franchise finishes, their scouting department, front office, and coaching needs to take responsibility for getting the players to help make their team a better one. Whether that is through free agency, trades, the draft or whatever. You shouldn't just flush the season down the drain and assume all is going to be fine.

As far as the Colts are concerned, they have had years to build a team around Manning that could still be able to win a decent amount of games in case he goes down. That franchise has neglected to do that and to expect Luck to be the future savior and hand him the keys to everything would be stupid.

Rob S
09-05-2011, 12:10 AM
I've never been a fan of "bombing a season" for a few reasons. First and foremost, it's the integrity of the game. You play to win it. Losing is bad, but giving up is always going to be worse. A lot of these players put a good amount of time and effort into their craft. It really isn't fair to them to put their bodies on the line just so a franchise can revel at the idea of rebuilding. A lot of those same players are constantly fighting for their jobs. They have to perform well to increase their chances of being on the team going forward.

Another reason is that nothing is certain when it comes to the NFL Draft. I definitely would love to have someone like Andrew Luck play for the 49ers, but I wouldn't be entirely surprised if he ends up like the next Heath Shuler, or just not close to the hype that everyone is pegging him for. Not saying it will happen, but I am saying that I wouldn't be surprised and that to bomb the season in the hopes that the franchise can be revived by one vital player that isn't even for sure going to be a good player is foolish. I like the idea of my team actually doing it's homework on a lot of other players in case some like Andrew Luck isn't an option instead of forgetting about the current season and rolling the dice assuming he'll be there injury-free waiting to be picked first.

Regardless of where an NFL franchise finishes, their scouting department, front office, and coaching needs to take responsibility for getting the players to help make their team a better one. Whether that is through free agency, trades, the draft or whatever. You shouldn't just flush the season down the drain and assume all is going to be fine.

As far as the Colts are concerned, they have had years to build a team around Manning that could still be able to win a decent amount of games in case he goes down. That franchise has neglected to do that and to expect Luck to be the future savior and hand him the keys to everything would be stupid.

First off, I would never encourage intentional bombing. Thats awful and a disgrace to the game. The end of the NBA season is just terrible because of this. I call it Tankapalooza. That said, if the Colts were to be awful this year I really think it benefits them in the long run. OF course the NFL draft is a bit of a crapshoot, but your better off gambling in the top 5 than drafting another Anthony Costanzoish player if you want to reload. I think your last point explains my point. The colts have completely failed in building a team capable of winning without Peyton. THey should have to pay for this. There should be a very long rebuild for them when Peyton finishes his career/stops being elite. If they are awful this year and can score a stud, they could have the get out of jail free card right there.

JBCX
09-05-2011, 07:57 AM
You wouldn't ever intentionally "tank" a season, but naming Kerry Collins and/or Curtis Painter as your starting QB all but ensures a 1-4 win season. Tell the other players to play hard, but they're still losing those games.

WCH
09-05-2011, 08:49 AM
Irsay is saying some interesting things on Twitter that may or may not be about Manning. These are a few of his gems (most of them are from within the last 9 hours or so):

"There was the Rams-K Warner Sup year./ There was Patriot 2001-Brady Sup.year.--- Every year. is interesting n unpredictable in NFL!!!!"

"This ain't a dream no more...it's the real thing..give me a second,let me get it 2gether, just got 2 pick myself up off the floor"

"Thou Jim L muddered those famous words n Apollo 13..I like,n the movie,Ed Harris declared "Excuse me sir,I think this will b r finest hour.""

"There is nothing2say on Peyton's status except we move cautiously n deliberately on projecting,beyond day2day,his healing process n recovery"

"I'm trying2prepare 12th Man as best I can,BUCK UP..if I've told u twice- The only thing the pity pot produces is a red ring around ur ass!"

"News is just news...what makes it good or bad is what we make of it"


The only thing definitive in all of this, is that Irsay might want to stop with the drunk tweeting...

Bob Sanders Dreadlock
09-05-2011, 09:22 AM
It will still be a good amount of money though.

So were Jerry Hughes, Donald Brown, and Jerry Hughes.

BeerBaron
09-05-2011, 10:46 AM
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/09/05/colts-say-manning-is-doubtful-for-sunday/

It begins.

Bob Sanders Dreadlock
09-05-2011, 12:58 PM
Curtis Painter should step in with no problem with all the weapons and first round picks we have. Right?

Ness
09-05-2011, 01:31 PM
So were Jerry Hughes, Donald Brown, and Jerry Hughes.

I don't remember Jerry Hughes, but I know Brown wasn't at least sitting on the bench.

Ness
09-05-2011, 01:33 PM
The only thing definitive in all of this, is that Irsay might want to stop with the drunk tweeting...

He does sound like a drunk tweeter that also can't type.

Bob Sanders Dreadlock
09-05-2011, 01:34 PM
I don't remember Jerry Hughes, but I know Brown wasn't at least sitting on the bench.

If things were how they should be Brown would be cut he has been out performed by Javarris James and Delone Carter has looked much better this preseason.

descendency
09-05-2011, 02:29 PM
In the event that the lingering uncertainties with Manning’s neck and nerves linger into 2012, the team will have a tough decision to make by the fourth day of the 2012 League Year. At that point, a staggering $28 million option bonus comes due, along with a non-exercise fee in the same amount. The Colts’ only way to avoid the payment will be to cut him or to trade him.

Maybe the Andrew Luck talk might not be so out there afterall...

(yeah, cutting Manning sounds insane, but if you got Peyton 2.0 for another decade. . . )

Ness
09-05-2011, 02:33 PM
Maybe the Andrew Luck talk might not be so out there afterall...

(yeah, cutting Manning sounds insane, but if you got Peyton 2.0 for another decade. . . )

Manning isn't even 36 yet and won't be until the 2012 season. I see Manning at least being able to play until he's 38 maybe even 40 unless some huge disaster injury occurs. If he returns to full health this season and his neck injury isn't an issue anymore, then there shouldn't be any talk about Andrew Luck. Manning is going to play a good amount this season so the Colts will probably win a good amount of games because of this putting the Andrew Luck discussion irrelevant.

I doubt Luck becomes as good a prospect as Manning has become. How many guys like Manning have ever been drafted? I'd say zero. I can't remember the last guy that has come out of college that has been able to do what Manning as done with the Colts...being a one man army. That being said, Luck still probably has a good chance to be a great player.

PACKmanN
09-05-2011, 06:24 PM
Manning isn't even 36 yet and won't be until the 2012 season. I see Manning at least being able to play until he's 38 maybe even 40 unless some huge disaster injury occurs. If he returns to full health this season and his neck injury isn't an issue anymore, then there shouldn't be any talk about Andrew Luck. Manning is going to play a good amount this season so the Colts will probably win a good amount of games because of this putting the Andrew Luck discussion irrelevant.

I doubt Luck becomes as good a prospect as Manning has become. How many guys like Manning have ever been drafted? I'd say zero. I can't remember the last guy that has come out of college that has been able to do what Manning as done with the Colts...being a one man army. That being said, Luck still probably has a good chance to be a great player.

what one man army...manning had a lot of good to great talent surrounding him on offense.

tjsunstein
09-05-2011, 06:27 PM
One man army is interesting.

Marshall Faulk
Edgerrin James
Marvin Harrison
Reggie Wayne
Dallas Clark

Ness
09-05-2011, 07:04 PM
what one man army...manning had a lot of good to great talent surrounding him on offense.

I'm talking specifically about the last few years. When a lot of the pressure has been on Peyton and the offense and he's still shown that he can lead the team practically himself. I can't think of another quarterback in recent memory that has done that so well. Especially last year. Clark goes down and what other well known contributors are left on offense? Saturday? Wayne? The Colts still win ten games.

Bob Sanders Dreadlock
09-05-2011, 07:35 PM
One man army is interesting.

Marshall Faulk
Edgerrin James
Marvin Harrison
Reggie Wayne
Dallas Clark

and has made Jacob Tamme, Blair White, Pierre Garcon, and Brandon Stokely look like good receivers.

Don Vito
09-05-2011, 07:48 PM
Don't even joke about Luck to the Colts.

descendency
09-05-2011, 07:48 PM
Ut Oh guys. . . Manning may be done for the year:

http://www.onionsportsnetwork.com/articles/peyton-mannings-head-falls-off,21273/

BeerBaron
09-05-2011, 07:55 PM
Ut Oh guys. . . Manning may be done for the year:

http://www.onionsportsnetwork.com/articles/peyton-mannings-head-falls-off,21273/

Nah, head falling off? That's a 2-4 week injury TOPS.

V.I.P
09-05-2011, 08:26 PM
Ut Oh guys. . . Manning may be done for the year:

http://www.onionsportsnetwork.com/articles/peyton-mannings-head-falls-off,21273/

You dirty little bastard!

BeerBaron
09-05-2011, 08:35 PM
The sad thing is that Peyton's limp, headless corpse would still probably be better than Kerry Collins or Curtis Painter.

killxswitch
09-06-2011, 09:20 AM
As long as Manning come back by week 6 I think the Colts still have a solid shot at 10 wins and a playoff berth. I think Collins can lead the team to 2 wins in the first 5 games.

If Manning still isn't back by week 6 it makes less and less sense to bring him back at all this season. Bring on Luck, Barkley, or Jones in the 1st round.

BeerBaron
09-06-2011, 09:27 AM
As long as Manning come back by week 6 I think the Colts still have a solid shot at 10 wins and a playoff berth. I think Collins can lead the team to 2 wins in the first 5 games.

If Manning still isn't back by week 6 it makes less and less sense to bring him back at all this season. Bring on Luck, Barkley, or Jones in the 1st round.

Manning barely led them to 10 wins in 16 weeks last year. He'd be coming back cold to a team that's possibly 2-4 or worse by week 6 in that scenario.

At that point, they should IR him and make sure he is totally healthy for 2012. No sense in risking his long term health for a lost campaign.

Now, if, in that situation, they were 2-4 (I'm being generous there) and the division leader, say Houston, was only 3-3, maybe bring him back.

killxswitch
09-06-2011, 10:04 AM
I meant the team would be 2-3 when Manning returned. That would give him a 3-game buffer to get up to speed. This is assuming he is truly healthy and close to 100% and not just barely grinding through each day.

Each week after week 5 that he doesn't play it makes a lot less sense to bring him back at all.

I admit it doesn't look good but I am not ready to hang myself in my office yet.

jth1331
09-06-2011, 10:32 AM
Do you really think he would lead the Colts to an 8-3 record without having played with limited practice?
The Colts barely won 10 games last year having 5 games decided by less than a score.
Plus, the Colts play:
@ Saints
Falcons
@Patriots
@Ravens
Not to mention the tough divisional opponent games, I just don't see it happening.

killxswitch
09-06-2011, 11:06 AM
Do you really think he would lead the Colts to an 8-3 record without having played with limited practice?
The Colts barely won 10 games last year having 5 games decided by less than a score.
Plus, the Colts play:
@ Saints
Falcons
@Patriots
@Ravens
Not to mention the tough divisional opponent games, I just don't see it happening.

They barely won 10 games with more players on IR than the Packers. I don't know why no one remembers this, it was talked about a lot last year.

I also said it would be a solid shot. Yes, I think Manning could come back, lose 2 or 3, then win out, if and only if he is actually 100% healthy when he does return.

keylime_5
09-06-2011, 11:17 AM
i think the texans are really going to take advantage of Indy losing Manning for more than a game or two. they squeaked into the postseason last year with Manning starting 16 games, no way IMO they do better this year without having Manning every week.

PACKmanN
09-06-2011, 02:54 PM
I'm talking specifically about the last few years. When a lot of the pressure has been on Peyton and the offense and he's still shown that he can lead the team practically himself. I can't think of another quarterback in recent memory that has done that so well. Especially last year. Clark goes down and what other well known contributors are left on offense? Saturday? Wayne? The Colts still win ten games.

the colts went 8-3 last year v. teams with a .500 record or less and 2-6 v. teams with a better record than .500. It was not like he was beating teams that were good

Ness
09-06-2011, 03:33 PM
the colts went 8-3 last year v. teams with a .500 record or less and 2-6 v. teams with a better record than .500. It was not like he was beating teams that were good

Regardless with that roster, it's pretty good what he did by himself and a lot of mediocre talent surrounding him.

Brodeur
09-06-2011, 03:50 PM
the colts went 8-3 last year v. teams with a .500 record or less and 2-6 v. teams with a better record than .500. It was not like he was beating teams that were good

The Colts played 19 games?

BeerBaron
09-06-2011, 04:00 PM
The Colts played 19 games?

I'm guessing he counted the .500 games for each one.

PACKmanN
09-06-2011, 04:04 PM
The Colts played 19 games?

2-3 v. teams that have a better record than .500

PACKmanN
09-06-2011, 04:06 PM
Regardless with that roster, it's pretty good what he did by himself and a lot of mediocre talent surrounding him.

the one man army only beat teams that were top 10 teams in the draft...he didn`t win games v. the better teams in the league

bucfan12
09-06-2011, 04:07 PM
I don't think Indy wins a single Game with Manning out.

BeerBaron
09-06-2011, 04:10 PM
I don't think Indy wins a single Game with Manning out.

This could very well be. Using an example of 6 games, this is their schedule:

@Houston
vs. Cleveland
vs. Pittsburgh
@ Tampa
vs. KC
@ Cincy

Even with Manning fully healthy, I feel like 3-3 would be good for that stretch. Without Manning, I could realistically see them beating only Cincy and maybe Cleveland. But Hillis and Benson would probably have field days against that Colts defense.

bucfan12
09-06-2011, 04:19 PM
This could very well be. Using an example of 6 games, this is their schedule:

@Houston
vs. Cleveland
vs. Pittsburgh
@ Tampa
vs. KC
@ Cincy

Even with Manning fully healthy, I feel like 3-3 would be good for that stretch. Without Manning, I could realistically see them beating only Cincy and maybe Cleveland. But Hillis and Benson would probably have field days against that Colts defense.

True. I mean, if anyone's really ever watched the Colts without Manning in the Lineup, there awful. If he missed the 1st 6 games, there 0-6 or 1-5 at best. Even if Manning comes back at week 3 or 4, he's going to be off and will take time.

Ness
09-06-2011, 04:25 PM
the one man army only beat teams that were top 10 teams in the draft...he didn`t win games v. the better teams in the league

Well there is only so much you can do when you are practically the only bright spot on offense. Expecting Peyton Manning to win with that team against good teams consistently is asking for too much.

killxswitch
09-06-2011, 07:21 PM
We will see how much Manning does or doesn't carry the team in the coming days.

If the team comes out in a lot of 2 TE sets and can consistently run for over 100 yards per game and set up play action, and Manning comes back in the first 3rd of the season, things may start to look good quickly.

Or, we might struggle to win 3 games all year and we'll take Andrew Luck 1st overall. If that sets the franchise up for another 15 years then one year in the crapper will have been worth it.

Brodeur
09-06-2011, 07:26 PM
We will see how much Manning does or doesn't carry the team in the coming days.

If the team comes out in a lot of 2 TE sets and can consistently run for over 100 yards per game and set up play action, and Manning comes back in the first 3rd of the season, things may start to look good quickly.

Or, we might struggle to win 3 games all year and we'll take Andrew Luck 1st overall. If that sets the franchise up for another 15 years then one year in the crapper will have been worth it.

ztVMib1T4T4

BeerBaron
09-06-2011, 07:49 PM
We'll still be waiting for Donald Brown to get to the line of scrimmage a year from now...

CC.SD
09-07-2011, 12:02 AM
The sad thing is that Peyton's limp, headless corpse would still probably be better than Kerry Collins or Curtis Painter.

Painter for sure, maybe Kerry could beat out the headless corpse, I could see it happening.

Ness
09-07-2011, 12:42 AM
Or, we might struggle to win 3 games all year and we'll take Andrew Luck 1st overall.

You really think the Colts will take Luck if they have the chance don't you? I mean if Manning has a career ending injury I could see it, but if he doesn't and is just lost for the season I doubt it. Manning could play until he's 40 and he's what, 35?

Jvig43
09-07-2011, 01:13 AM
How do you know he could play until hes 40? Maybe this neck injury is the end of his career? If the Colts get a shot at Luck they should most certainly pick him, even if he waits another five years behind Manning.

Ness
09-07-2011, 01:17 AM
How do you know he could play until hes 40? Maybe this neck injury is the end of his career? If the Colts get a shot at Luck they should most certainly pick him, even if he waits another five years behind Manning.

Yeah well if Luck wants to hold a clipboard for five years then awesome. That would be hilarious if such a scenario were to happen and he bolts after his rookie contract is up which is when Manning retires.

bucfan12
09-07-2011, 01:19 AM
Yeah well if Luck wants to hold a clipboard for five years then awesome. That would be hilarious if such a scenario were to happen and he bolts after his rookie contract is up which is when Manning retires.

Rodgers held 1 for 3 years/ That turned out pretty good.

Ness
09-07-2011, 01:21 AM
Rodgers held 1 for 3 years/ That turned out pretty good.

Yeah, but not for five, which is what we were talking about.

V.I.P
09-07-2011, 02:36 AM
I'm not to sure Manning will play till he's 40. If this is a lingering injury he might hang it up early. Plus, how many QBs have actually played till 40?

killxswitch
09-07-2011, 09:05 AM
Again, if Manning is lost for the season because of this injury (which would probably mean another operation), he is not going to play til he's 40. My guess is he'd play another 2 years, MAYBE 3. That is not a ridiculous amount of time for Luck, Barkley, or Jones to learn the system and be our own Aaron Rodgers.

Brod I'm at work and can't see the youtube video you posted, so I'm not sure how to respond to it. Assuming it is negative in nature keep in mind the OL has 4 new starters and Delone Carter is already ahead of Donald Brown on the depth chart. He will be the #1 RB before the end of the season.

WCH
09-07-2011, 09:21 AM
I'm not to sure Manning will play till he's 40. If this is a lingering injury he might hang it up early. Plus, how many QBs have actually played till 40?

Among Hall of Famers, who took the wear-and-tear of a full-time starter for their careers? Five. Unitas, Dawson, Jurgensen, Moon, and Favre. Georga Blanda played until he was 48, but only played QB until he was 39. It's interesting to look at what these guys did in their final years.

Of those five guys, Unitas and Dawson both had their last elite seasons at the age of 37, before falling off of a cliff. The spent their last few seasons as backups who lost games when they had to play. Unitas spent his final year in San Diego.

Jurgensen's last season as a full-time starter was at the age of 36. After that he remained a useful backup to Billy Kilmer, who won a tight QB battle. He actually ended out his career with a pretty solid 1100 yard passing season, with 11 TDs and 5 INTs, with a 64% completion rate despite being 40 years old.

Warren Moon may offer the most hope to Manning's fans. He didn't play in the NFL until 28, but when he did make it he wasn't leaving any time soon. Moon posted Pro Bowl seasons at the ages of 39 and 41. In 1995, at the age of 39, Moon threw for 4228 and 33 TDs with the Vikings. In 1997, a 41 year old Moon, now with the Seahawks, threw for 3678 yards and 25 TDs. After this season, Moon completely fell off the cliff. He lingered for a few seasons before retiring at 44.

Brett Favre isn't in the Hall of Fame yet, but I counted him anyway. He's fresh on our minds, and is probably why so many people suddenly think that QBs play until they're 40. After several slightly above-average seasons, Mike McCarthy rejuvenated Favre at the age of 37, and at 38 he had one of his best seasons in the NFL. The next year he was traded to the Jets, where he made it to the Pro Bowl, but an injury limited his effectiveness down the stretch -- in the end, he led the league in INT's, with 22. Heading to the Vikings at 40, he posted his best season since his MVP-winning prime, throwing for 4200 yards, 33 TDs, and only 7 INTs, with a 68% completion rate. Then, as we all know, his final season crashed and burned like the friggin' hindenburg.

Of the other 18 QBs in the HoF, 11 of them retired between the ages of 36 and 38, mostly due to nagging injuries or rapid decline in ability. Among the 23 HoF QBs, 37 is both the mean and median age of retirement.

So, when we throw out long-time backups like Testaverde, and we only look at other players on Peyton's level, we have three QBs (Jurgensen, Moon, Favre) who have continued to be useful players at the age of 40.

Jvig43
09-07-2011, 09:23 AM
Yeah well if Luck wants to hold a clipboard for five years then awesome. That would be hilarious if such a scenario were to happen and he bolts after his rookie contract is up which is when Manning retires.

Franchise tag, franchise tag. Either way it's highly doubtful Manning plays for another five years when he has an injury right now that is being rumored to keep him out for this entire year. It would be stupid not to take Luck in a draft after your franchise QB (possibly) misses the entire year to injury and future is uncertain.

BeerBaron
09-07-2011, 09:23 AM
Well, Kordell Stewart still apparently likes the Colts. First Take is one of the the TVs where I work. No sound, but he just picked them to still place first in the division. I'm assuming he thinks Peyton won't miss much time.

I still wouldn't like them. They barely won this division last year with Peyton mostly healthy.

Smooth Criminal
09-07-2011, 09:28 AM
I don't think they'll have the first pick or even a top 5 pick if Manning misses the year. I think Collins will be able to get them to 6 wins.

BeerBaron
09-07-2011, 09:35 AM
I don't think they'll have the first pick or even a top 5 pick if Manning misses the year. I think Collins will be able to get them to 6 wins.

By my count, Collins went 2-6 as a starter in Tennessee last year where opposing defenses had to focus on stopping Chris Johnson.

In 2009, he was 0-6 as a starter.

I see 5 wins at absolute maximum with Collins at starter.That would be good for a pick at the back end of the top 10. They might not be able to get Luck there, but the could (and should) go after another available QB like Barkley or Landry Jones if they enter the draft after this year.

Smooth Criminal
09-07-2011, 09:36 AM
By my count, Collins went 2-6 as a starter in Tennessee last year where opposing defenses had to focus on stopping Chris Johnson.

In 2009, he was 0-6 as a starter.

I see 5 wins at absolute maximum with Collins at starter.That would be good for a pick at the back end of the top 10. They might not be able to get Luck there, but the could (and should) go after another available QB like Barkley or Landry Jones if they enter the draft after this year.

I definitely wouldn't pass on a QB in their situation. I just don't think they'll have a slam dunk at Luck like most people on here. The offense won't be pretty with Collins in there, but they do still have some talented players and they play in a fairly weak division.

killxswitch
09-07-2011, 09:44 AM
Well, Kordell Stewart still apparently likes the Colts. First Take is one of the the TVs where I work. No sound, but he just picked them to still place first in the division. I'm assuming he thinks Peyton won't miss much time.

I still wouldn't like them. They barely won this division last year with Peyton mostly healthy.

BeerBaron you can't ignore me forever. Yes, they barely won, but that was with the following starters missing significant time:

Dallas Clark
Austin Collie
Joseph Addai
Kelvin Hayden
Jerraud Powers
Bob Sanders
Melvin Bullitt
Gary Brackett
Clint Session
Antonio Johnson

I won't post all the contributors and other depth players that also missed games or went on IR. But as it was widely reported, the Colts were the most-injured team in the NFL last year. Not the Packers.

The guys in bold are back and healthy. If Manning were also healthy, this would be a much better team than last years' Colts.

Not that that means anything. Healthy or not the team is still built around Manning. If he can't play this year they're not going to win more than 6. Hopefully less so we can have a better draft spot. No moral victories for a team that has made the playoffs for over a decade.

BeerBaron
09-07-2011, 09:46 AM
I definitely wouldn't pass on a QB in their situation. I just don't think they'll have a slam dunk at Luck like most people on here. The offense won't be pretty with Collins in there, but they do still have some talented players and they play in a fairly weak division.

I still don't fully trust Houston, but they SHOULD win that division by default. Their front 7 has undeniable talent and I think by adding Manning and Joseph, their secondary should be at least passable.

Plus, every one of those teams has a feature back who can exploit the Colts biggest defensive weakness. Without Peyton leading drives and pushing the Colts ahead, that undersized defense is probably going to get absolutely abused by opposing runners.

Smooth Criminal
09-07-2011, 09:49 AM
I still don't fully trust Houston, but they SHOULD win that division by default. Their front 7 has undeniable talent and I think by adding Manning and Joseph, their secondary should be at least passable.

Plus, every one of those teams has a feature back who can exploit the Colts biggest defensive weakness. Without Peyton leading drives and pushing the Colts ahead, that undersized defense is probably going to get absolutely abused by opposing runners.

I think Houston wins as well, but with a total of 8-9 wins. No team in that division is anything special. I'm thinking the Colts could win 2-3 division games even.

falloutboy14
09-07-2011, 09:50 AM
Without Manning, games against the Panthers, Bengals, Browns, and two with the Jaguars & Titans is about as optimistic as I'm willing to be. That's seven games where we have a chance. With all the talk of improving the Colts run offense, I don't see it. The offense will be anemic until Collins figures it out or Manning returns. That puts success on the defense, specifically the run defense.

BeerBaron
09-07-2011, 10:07 AM
BeerBaron you can't ignore me forever. Yes, they barely won, but that was with the following starters missing significant time:

Dallas Clark
Austin Collie
Joseph Addai
Kelvin Hayden
Jerraud Powers
Bob Sanders
Melvin Bullitt
Gary Brackett
Clint Session
Antonio Johnson

I won't post all the contributors and other depth players that also missed games or went on IR. But as it was widely reported, the Colts were the most-injured team in the NFL last year. Not the Packers.

The guys in bold are back and healthy. If Manning were also healthy, this would be a much better team than last years' Colts.

Not that that means anything. Healthy or not the team is still built around Manning. If he can't play this year they're not going to win more than 6. Hopefully less so we can have a better draft spot. No moral victories for a team that has made the playoffs for over a decade.

I wasn't ignoring you, I just don't think any of the guys listed there are really world beaters who will make or break a team outside of Clark. Missing Addai sucked, but that's really only because your backup is Donald Brown who is just atrociously bad. He gives Knowshon a run for his money as the slowest back to hit the line of scrimmage in the NFL.

Maybe collectively that group being healthy could have accounted for an extra win or two, but I don't think the Colts would have been a drastically better team.

I think Houston wins as well, but with a total of 8-9 wins. No team in that division is anything special. I'm thinking the Colts could win 2-3 division games even.

My main concern with Houston is their lack of experience in winning important games. Their offense has the potential to be downright nasty in all facets of the game, and if that defense is improved even slightly, which I think it will be, they SHOULD win 10 games and the division.

bucfan12
09-07-2011, 10:18 AM
What most of you don't understand is Peyton Manning is the Colts. They go by him. There defense is average, at best. There o-line was improved, but always suspect. Average running game, unless Delone Carter is something of a steal. Outside of Reggie Wayne and Dallas Clark, there WR core isn't any good outside of Manning. I don't think you'd see Pierre Garcone or Austin Collie threats on any other team.

A neck injury isn't something you mess around with, especially playing a physical sport like football (although Goodell is doing his best to make it non-contact). Remember, Manning and Favre are different types of QBs. Yes, both are tough, but Favre was a guy that can make throws on the run. Manning is just an in-pocket passer 99% of the time. Favre could avoid hits with his scrambling ability, same as John Elway and Warren Moon.

I say if this isn't serious, he's got 3, maybe 4 good years in him, that inlcudes this season.

killxswitch
09-07-2011, 11:04 AM
I wasn't ignoring you, I just don't think any of the guys listed there are really world beaters who will make or break a team outside of Clark. Missing Addai sucked, but that's really only because your backup is Donald Brown who is just atrociously bad. He gives Knowshon a run for his money as the slowest back to hit the line of scrimmage in the NFL.

Maybe collectively that group being healthy could have accounted for an extra win or two, but I don't think the Colts would have been a drastically better team.


You don't think losing 10 starters for multiple games had a drastic effect on the team? Come on BB.

BeerBaron
09-07-2011, 11:16 AM
You don't think losing 10 starters for multiple games had a drastic effect on the team? Come on BB.

Would you have been a 14-2 Superbowl contender with those guys? No. Would you have maybe been 11-5 instead of 10-6? Maybe.

Your o-line was still awful and your run defense has been a leaky sieve for longer than I can remember. Even early in the season when healthy(er) Houston and Jacksonville both beat you in the first 4 weeks.

WCH
09-07-2011, 11:28 AM
Favre could avoid hits with his scrambling ability, same as John Elway and Warren Moon.

I say if this isn't serious, he's got 3, maybe 4 good years in him, that inlcudes this season.
I agree. And not to continue to be a kill-joy, but it looks even more outlandish when you sort QBs by games started. Then you get:

Favre: 298
Marino: 240
Tarkenton: 239
Elway: 231
Manning: 208
Moon: 203

Favre played a staggering 25% more games than the next QB in line. To play until he's 40, Manning would have to get closer to Favre than to Marino. In general, 38 seems to be QBs what 30 is to RBs.

So: "No, Quarterbacks cannot play at a high level until they're 40; unless they're the most durable player in NFL history."

Jvig43
09-07-2011, 11:35 AM
Manning is out for week one, just read it over on espn.

killxswitch
09-07-2011, 11:37 AM
Would you have been a 14-2 Superbowl contender with those guys? No. Would you have maybe been 11-5 instead of 10-6? Maybe.

Your o-line was still awful and your run defense has been a leaky sieve for longer than I can remember. Even early in the season when healthy(er) Houston and Jacksonville both beat you in the first 4 weeks.

With any one of a number of combos of those guys back, the Colts could've easily won week 11 vs. the Pats and week 13 vs. Dallas. Week 9 vs. the Eagles too. So yes, I think those injuries were a huge part of the Colts not having a better season. All 3 of those were decided by 3 points or less. 13-3 sounds a lot better than 10-6.

BeerBaron
09-07-2011, 11:40 AM
Manning is out for week one, just read it over on espn.

PFT confirms.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/09/07/peyton-manning-will-not-play-week-1-vs-texans/

With this being official now, I think it's safe to say that like DiMaggio's hit streak, Favre's consecutive start streak will probably stand forever. No one is ever going to get close that that if Peyton can't.

killxswitch
09-07-2011, 11:49 AM
Yes, no one has had a better shot at it. Damn. 13 straight years of starting, and all 4 in college too if I remember correctly. A small naive part of me still hoped this was all a PR stunt to make Manning's triumphant recovery that much more amazing. I just hope he can come back before midseason.

bucfan12
09-07-2011, 01:32 PM
Yes, no one has had a better shot at it. Damn. 13 straight years of starting, and all 4 in college too if I remember correctly. A small naive part of me still hoped this was all a PR stunt to make Manning's triumphant recovery that much more amazing. I just hope he can come back before midseason.

Neck injury is not something to mess around with. He's got to take his time until he's 100% healthy. Some reports have that he needs to be re-evaluated and some say more surgery could be needed.

leroyisgod
09-07-2011, 01:36 PM
If Manning were there, I would say 9. If he's out all year I'd go with 6. Part of the year, 7-8.

Rosebud
09-07-2011, 02:37 PM
PFT confirms.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/09/07/peyton-manning-will-not-play-week-1-vs-texans/

With this being official now, I think it's safe to say that like DiMaggio's hit streak, Favre's consecutive start streak will probably stand forever. No one is ever going to get close that that if Peyton can't.

Well little brother's been starting for almost 7 straight years despite some injuries that some thought could be season ending. Plus he throws enough picks to pull off a good Favre impression...

BeerBaron
09-07-2011, 02:39 PM
Well little brother's been starting for almost 7 straight years despite some injuries that some thought could be season ending. Plus he throws enough picks to pull off a good Favre impression...

Eli is barely 1/3 of the way to Favre's total, and in this day and age with an emphasis on player safety and concussion paranoia, all it takes is one hit to the head in any game and the streak can end.

Rosebud
09-07-2011, 02:42 PM
Eli is barely 1/3 of the way to Favre's total, and in this day and age with an emphasis on player safety and concussion paranoia, all it takes is one hit to the head in any game and the streak can end.

That's why Eli's been pretending to be so dopey for years, no doctor will be able to tell whether he's concussed or just befuddled!...

Giantsfan1080
09-07-2011, 03:37 PM
Another rumor out of Indy today that Peyton might be done for the year.

BeerBaron
09-07-2011, 03:48 PM
Another rumor out of Indy today that Peyton might be done for the year.

This rumor has been around since August, though I definitely believe it a little bit more now.

Brodeur
09-07-2011, 04:17 PM
You know who has the longest starting streak for any player in football now? Jeff Backus, **** YOU BEER BARON.

Nikolas
09-07-2011, 04:27 PM
If Peyton still has lingering health issues, the Colts should consider benching him the whole season. They've already put money into Collins, might as well ride that nag the whole way and come back with a 100% Peyton next year.

Also, if Indy winds up with the first draft pick (unlikely, but just speculating) then they should definitely pick up Luck. With the new rookie cap in place, it's not such a huge gamble, plus he can spend 2 years behind Peyton learning from one of the best.

My guess is that Luck will end up going to Buffalo next year. They have a brutal schedule this year and are in serious need of a new QB.

gpngc
09-07-2011, 04:29 PM
The world is going to explode when Kerry Collins leads them to 9-7.

Seamus2602
09-07-2011, 04:39 PM
Another rumor out of Indy today that Peyton might be done for the year.

The worrying thing is that while the Colts haven't confirmed it they haven't denied it either.

bored of education
09-07-2011, 04:51 PM
Radio host in Indianapolis claims Peyton Manning had a 3rd neck procedure & is out for the year. WNDE or something?

CashmoneyDrew
09-07-2011, 04:55 PM
The Colts should take Luck. Then they can either sit him a year or they can start him immediately and trade Peyton for picks and/or players.

Suck it Madden franchise mode.


I bet there are some posters on here that weren't even alive the last time Peyton didn't start for a game.

Saints-Tigers
09-07-2011, 05:35 PM
The Colts should take Luck. Then they can either sit him a year or they can start him immediately and trade Peyton for picks and/or players.

Suck it Madden franchise mode.


I bet there are some posters on here that weren't even alive the last time Peyton didn't start for a game.

Lets not make this about Halsey.

tjsunstein
09-07-2011, 05:42 PM
I bet there are some posters on here that weren't even alive the last time Peyton didn't start for a game.
Please don't let this be true.

BeerBaron
09-07-2011, 05:50 PM
You know who has the longest starting streak for any player in football now? Jeff Backus, **** YOU BEER BARON.

And he's helped lead the Lions to...how many winning seasons in that time?

BTW, link to the Manning might be out for the year talk:

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/09/07/indy-radio-host-says-manning-will-miss-entire-season/

hawkeye123
09-07-2011, 05:50 PM
Jim Harbaugh was the last QB to start for Indy before Manning.

FUNBUNCHER
09-07-2011, 05:58 PM
I might shoot my TV if the Colts get the first pick in the 2012 draft.

Brodeur
09-07-2011, 06:00 PM
And he's helped lead the Lions to...how many winning seasons in that time?

BTW, link to the Manning might be out for the year talk:

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/09/07/indy-radio-host-says-manning-will-miss-entire-season/

It's not his fault dammit.

BeerBaron
09-07-2011, 06:28 PM
It's not his fault dammit.

This one was his fault:

_CkORRd1I6k

BTW, since we were talking about streaks earlier:

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/09/07/brett-favres-streak-safe-for-years-maybe-forever/


When Peyton Manning sits out Sunday, he’ll hand the longest active streak to his younger brother, Giants quarterback Eli Manning, who is set to start his 104th consecutive game on Sunday against the Redskins. That’s an impressive achievement — but a long, long way from Favre.

Eli can play every game for the next 12 seasons and still not catch Favre. Assuming the NFL sticks to 16-game seasons, Eli wouldn’t break Favre’s record until the 2023 season, when he’ll be 42 years old.


Favre's record is all but set in stone. I don't think anyone will ever reach that again.

CashmoneyDrew
09-07-2011, 06:40 PM
Please don't let this be true.

I can think of a few posters on here I'd bet were born after September 1994.

Bengalsrocket
09-07-2011, 06:47 PM
Favre's record is all but set in stone. I don't think anyone will ever reach that again.

The only way NFL records go unbroken is if the format changes (like when players stopped playing both sides, it was impossible to break 2 way records like interceptions and TD passes by the same player).

Someone, eventually, will come long and break that record.

BeerBaron
09-07-2011, 07:15 PM
The only way NFL records go unbroken is if the format changes (like when players stopped playing both sides, it was impossible to break 2 way records like interceptions and TD passes by the same player).

Someone, eventually, will come long and break that record.

Come find me in 19 years if someone else does it to rub this in my face, but I truly feel like it will never, ever be broken.

Especially with the current emphasis on player safety. All it takes is one rough head shot in a game and the player could miss a week sitting out due a concussion. And one week is all it takes to snap it. A few years ago, for all of Favre's career basically, that kind of thing simply went undiagnosed or was ignored.

It would just take such an incredible combination of luck and pain tolerance to play through the injuries are every player inevitably suffers. It's nothing short of a miracle that Favre managed to do it.

I think Peyton is the closest anyone is ever going to come.

jayceheathman
09-07-2011, 07:24 PM
It looks like the Colts should have listened to Scott and got Andy Dalton.

Bob Sanders Dreadlock
09-07-2011, 07:33 PM
I might shoot my TV if the Colts get the first pick in the 2012 draft.

Why? We are going to draft Alshon Jeffrey or Trent Richardson anyways.

BeerBaron
09-07-2011, 07:34 PM
Why? We are going to draft Alshon Jeffrey or Trent Richardson anyways.

They might be the greatest consolation prize in the history of consolation prizes.

Brodeur
09-07-2011, 07:35 PM
This one was his fault:

_CkORRd1I6k

BTW, since we were talking about streaks earlier:

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/09/07/brett-favres-streak-safe-for-years-maybe-forever/



Favre's record is all but set in stone. I don't think anyone will ever reach that again.

Ahhh Monday Night Football ************, Monday Night Football.