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View Full Version : Does Vick deserve all these endorsements?


whatadai
08-26-2011, 04:40 PM
Read the first article and then the second article. Does anyone really think this guy is a changed man? He's just stringing people along and doing what he thinks they want so he can be the $100 million man again.

http://articles.latimes.com/2010/nov/16/sports/la-sp-plaschke-20101117

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/sports_blog/2011/08/michael-vick-nfl-eagles.html

"For a while it was all, 'Scold Mike Vick, scold Mike Vick, just talk bad about him like he’s not a person,' " Vick told the magazine. "It was almost as if everyone wanted to hate me. But what have I done to anybody? It was something that happened, and it was people trying to make some money."

He didn't hurt anybody? So dogs are nothing to him? So he hasn't really learned his lesson has he?

Honestly, I can't be the only one on this forum who wishes that he's still in prison and believes that he was let out and given a second chance too early?

He could be the most successful quarterback this year, throw for 50 TDs, 0 INTs, and 6000 yards and I still wouldn't support him or even have him on my bench in fantasy football.

Saints-Tigers
08-26-2011, 04:42 PM
Uh, guys get endorsements because they move product. He's obviously moving product, so the people making the money off of him are going to pay him.

The real world doesn't really care about you being Prince Valiant.

whatadai
08-26-2011, 04:45 PM
He moves product because he got his second chance too early and was let out of prison too soon. He didn't move product after the **** hit the fan so he lost all of his endorsements. From this quote alone you can tell he was never truly remorseful for his actions and if this was more well-known his ability to move products for Nike and Subway could easily stop.

Ness
08-26-2011, 04:52 PM
Really, I'm not sure where to begin. I read both of those articles and honestly I got the impression that they were cheap shots that were just trying to make big with a story. It happens all the time in the media. Michael Vick served his sentence. Really what do you want him to do? Go back to prison? If that's the case take issue with society's laws and not Vick. Vick made a mistake, he acknowledged that he made it and now he's on the path to redemption.

As for his endorsements, money doesn't necessarily have a conscience. As soon as Vick, or any other player for that matter has a decent image and is marketable, companies are going to jump on that said player to try and sell their product. Again, take issue with those companies, not Vick.

I also found this quote interesting from the first article:

"How can you support football when you know one of their stars did this to a dog?" Hunter said. "If more people saw Mel at the same time as they saw Michael Vick, he wouldn't be so lauded."

This guy has such a negative bias it's absurd. I get the impression that he may have not liked football before this incident even happened. So just because one of their stars committed a crime means that everyone is a menace and the sport shouldn't be supported? Give me a break.

niel89
08-26-2011, 04:58 PM
The guy did his time, lost a huge contract & endorsements, and some of the peak years of his playing career. I don't support what he did, but I honestly think he has felt the repercussions of his actions.

Ness
08-26-2011, 04:59 PM
He moves product because he got his second chance too early and was let out of prison too soon. He didn't move product after the **** hit the fan so he lost all of his endorsements. From this quote alone you can tell he was never truly remorseful for his actions and if this was more well-known his ability to move products for Nike and Subway could easily stop.

Well we don't know Vick personally, so you can't just assume that is the case based on what he said in a magazine. At least not for sure. He apologized quite a few times and has gone on to revitalize his career not just on the field, but off of it.

The man lost everything. Not sure what more you want to happen. He served his time. If you don't think he is really remorseful, that's fine, but I'm not sure what you are getting so worked up about in regards to him.

Caulibflower
08-26-2011, 05:00 PM
Untamed dogs fight and kill each other all the time. The fact that they make affectionate pets doesn't really mean much. People are just using them one way or another. They're not people. A dog isn't going, "Oh ****, I'm a fighting dog when I really, really wanted to be a housepet." This isn't Nero throwing Christians onto the Coliseum floor to fight lions and barbarians, it's guys putting bets on which aggressive dog will beat another. It's really not that fundamentally different from what football is.

Bengalsrocket
08-26-2011, 05:01 PM
I believe in second chances. I also believe that it's hard to gauge remorse from an interview that has been translated to paper then edited.

Concepts like "earn" and "deserve" are hard to truly grasp for most people, so instead let's just say Vick was given an opportunity and he's now capitalizing on it. You can be mad at him for getting the NFL and subsequently his endorsements back but it won't effect him, his place in the NFL or the people endorsing him.

Instead be mad at the people who continue to dog fight and the fact that this whole situation hasn't led to more awareness. We should have more resources and time spent devoted to stopping dog fighting (and animal cruelty all together) than we do currently.

Ness
08-26-2011, 05:04 PM
Untamed dogs fight and kill each other all the time. The fact that they make affectionate pets doesn't really mean much. People are just using them one way or another. They're not people. A dog isn't going, "Oh ****, I'm a fighting dog when I really, really wanted to be a housepet." This isn't Nero throwing Christians onto the Coliseum floor to fight lions and barbarians, it's guys putting bets on which aggressive dog will beat another. It's really not that fundamentally different from what football is.
The funny thing is that in a lot of cultures this is probably alright. By this logic that everyone is up in arms about, we should not allow hunters to hunt because of the cruelty factor. Or perhaps we should shun all Filipinos because **** fighting is allowed in their culture.

Vick broke a law. He served his time for it. He apologized and has taken steps to put his life on track after he lost everything and learned a hard lesson. Not just about this dog fighting incident, but a lot of other things in life. Why would we be down on this guy still? Is it really bad to think he may have changed his perception about how he wants to live his life? If anything we should be supporting him.

Bengalsrocket
08-26-2011, 05:05 PM
Untamed dogs fight and kill each other all the time. The fact that they make affectionate pets doesn't really mean much. People are just using them one way or another. They're not people. A dog isn't going, "Oh ****, I'm a fighting dog when I really, really wanted to be a housepet." This isn't Nero throwing Christians onto the Coliseum floor to fight lions and barbarians, it's guys putting bets on which aggressive dog will beat another. It's really not that fundamentally different from what football is.

Uhmm... you should see a psychologist. Dog fighting is fundamentally different from football. For starters, no one's life is at stake in football.

Caulibflower
08-26-2011, 05:06 PM
He didn't hurt anybody?

Uh... no? You gonna go on the same tirade against every NFL player who goes on a safari and kills something to put in his game room? 'Cause there's quite a few of those.

So dogs are nothing to him? So he hasn't really learned his lesson has he?

Well they sure aren't sacred.

Honestly, I can't be the only one on this forum who wishes that he's still in prison and believes that he was let out and given a second chance too early?

You know Lassie is just a movie, right? That the animals' voices in "Homeward Bound" are actually dubbed? That there are far more important things to worry yourself about than a guy who served two years in prison for killing some dogs while many others walk free for far more damaging crimes?

He could be the most successful quarterback this year, throw for 50 TDs, 0 INTs, and 6000 yards and I still wouldn't support him or even have him on my bench in fantasy football.

Not surprising, because you don't seem very rational.

Caulibflower
08-26-2011, 05:10 PM
Uhmm... you should see a psychologist. Dog fighting is fundamentally different from football. For starters, no one's life is at stake in football.

Football is a spectacle we admire because athleticism, unpredictability and tolerance of pain are on display. It is fundamentally violent. People have died playing football, albeit probably not from football injuries. But is there really a huge difference between a catastrophic injury and death when talking about the morality of a sport? There are catastrophic injuries every year.

Jvig43
08-26-2011, 05:11 PM
Do you deserve to have thread making abilities?

Caulibflower
08-26-2011, 05:15 PM
I also suspect whatadai supports increased enforcement of pass-interference calls, 1st downs for touching the QBs head or knees, and the Oregon Ducks' uniforms.

Bengalsrocket
08-26-2011, 05:17 PM
Football is a spectacle we admire because athleticism, unpredictability and tolerance of pain are on display. It is fundamentally violent. People have died playing football, albeit probably not from football injuries. But is there really a huge difference between a catastrophic injury and death when talking about the morality of a sport? There are catastrophic injuries every year.

I guess I share a different view of what makes football great then. I would still watch the NFL even if it was flag football. I don't care how hard you can hit someone or how well you can take a hit from someone. I do agree that athleticism and unpredictability play a role, but I guess in a different way than you.

Football has always been about strategy for me. Not just on a coaching "X's and O's" level either. Each individual player makes split second choices as to how to approach the opposing team at any giving time during a play. This is what makes football great to me. I'll never be the guy that purchases "NFL's Greatest Hits" DVDs from their website.

Also, I've never heard of someone dieing from playing football directly. It's possible people have shorter lives based on their actions during their career, but never a player dieing on the field that I'm aware of (I could be wrong here, didn't do any immediate research).

Edit: I guess I should answer your question too. And the answer is yes, there is a difference between a catastrophic injury and death. Never playing football (or maybe... walking even) again would be an awful thing to go through - however, ceasing to exist is a tragedy.

CashmoneyDrew
08-26-2011, 05:25 PM
Untamed dogs fight and kill each other all the time. The fact that they make affectionate pets doesn't really mean much. People are just using them one way or another. They're not people. A dog isn't going, "Oh ****, I'm a fighting dog when I really, really wanted to be a housepet." This isn't Nero throwing Christians onto the Coliseum floor to fight lions and barbarians, it's guys putting bets on which aggressive dog will beat another..

Maybe, maybe not. But Vick did more than just fight dogs. Remember he also electrocuted them, drowned them, beat them, had them raped, etc.
Some almost serial killer level ****. A bit more disturbing.

Caulibflower
08-26-2011, 05:26 PM
I guess I share a different view of what makes football great then. I would still watch the NFL even if it was flag football. I don't care how hard you can hit someone or how well you can take a hit from someone. I do agree that athleticism and unpredictability play a role, but I guess in a different way than you.

Football has always been about strategy for me. Not just on a coaching "X's and O's" level either. Each individual player makes split second choices as to how to approach the opposing team at any giving time during a play. This is what makes football great to me. I'll never be the guy that purchases "NFL's Greatest Hits" DVDs from their website.

I'm really not that far from where you're standing, but you have to acknowledge that what makes the strategy and athleticism, and especially decision-making are much more intriguing when a running back is thinking, on 4th and 1: "Touchdown is I put my head down and accept a bright flash and headache in exchange for the points, or I accept that there's no hole here because I'd rather feel good."

soybean
08-26-2011, 05:29 PM
he deserves his endorsements because he kicked ass on the football field.

If you're trying to stir up a morality debate, im out.

Caulibflower
08-26-2011, 05:34 PM
Maybe, maybe not. But Vick did more than just fight dogs. Remember he also electrocuted them, drowned them, beat them, had them raped, etc.
Some almost serial killer level ****. A bit more disturbing.

Can we stop anthropomorphizing these dogs yet? Rape? What is dog breeding if the ***** "doesn't want to have a litter?" Good grief. Am I denying that there may have been a sadistic element in what he did? No. But I am genuinely tired of people calling for him to go back to prison as if what he did is... Man, I don't even know. Dogs? I like them. But they're dogs. Some people don't have qualms about doing things to them they wouldn't do to a person, because they make a more definite distinction between them. The people who are still ranting about Vick seem to think actions taken against dogs are equivalent, or at least very near, to actions taken against people, and I think that's a bit absurd. I wouldn't inflict needless pain on anyone or anything, but my point here is that there are much, much more important things that we could be worried about, even other player conduct issues, than one person running a dogfighting operation. Vick's an easy target because he's so fun to watch. Opposing fans should stop masquerading as moralists. How many Eagle's fans on this board were moaning about how a dogfighter was leading their team to the playoffs last year? Not a peep.

CashmoneyDrew
08-26-2011, 05:39 PM
Can we stop anthropomorphizing these dogs yet? Rape? What is dog breeding if the ***** "doesn't want to have a litter?" Good grief. Am I denying that there may have been a sadistic element in what he did? No. But I am genuinely tired of people calling for him to go back to prison as if what he did is... Man, I don't even know. Dogs? I like them. But they're dogs. Some people don't have qualms about doing things to them they wouldn't do to a person, because they make a more definite distinction between them. The people who are still ranting about Vick seem to think actions taken against dogs are equivalent, or at least very near, to actions taken against people, and I think that's a bit absurd. I wouldn't inflict needless pain on anyone or anything, but my point here is that there are much, much more important things that we could be worried about, even other player conduct issues, than one person running a dogfighting operation. Vick's an easy target because he's so fun to watch. Opposing fans should stop masquerading as moralists. How many Eagle's fans on this board were moaning about how a dogfighter was leading their team to the playoffs last year? Not a peep.

I'm not taking a stand against Vick. He's served his time and that's fine. I still dislike the guy but I won't crusade against him or anything. I just hate when people who do defend him conveniently forget all the other things he did besides just fight the dogs.

Also, yes animals can be raped.

Ness
08-26-2011, 05:47 PM
I wonder how many folks are branded Vick for what he did against the dogs, but still swat flies in their house every other day?

CashmoneyDrew
08-26-2011, 05:54 PM
I wonder how many folks are branded Vick for what he did against the dogs, but still swat flies in their house every other day?

Meh, the only little bastards I kill are spiders. And I tried to be nice to even them for a period. But now that one of them bit me last week I'm back to a kill on site policy if I see them in my house.

Saints-Tigers
08-26-2011, 06:40 PM
I watch football. If I was trying to watch a competition of guys who have the best character, I'll watch TLC or nickelodeon or something.

Mike Vick is good at football, so I watch him. If he wasn't good at football, I wouldn't care what he does with his time, just like you aren't crusading against every former convict that has a job.

gang_green03
08-27-2011, 04:32 AM
Uh... no? You gonna go on the same tirade against every NFL player who goes on a safari and kills something to put in his game room? 'Cause there's quite a few of those.

This is one thing that really bothers me about the Vick situation. I like dogs and all but it's really aggervating that his crime is made such a spectacle of when similar/worse things happen to other animals that we don't generally consider "pets." On top of the above hunting example, do all the people (even the OP) that look down on him eat pork and thus contribute to what can, at times, be an equally barbaric industry. I'd like a little consistency if people are gonna try to take the moral high ground.

I try to catch myself when judging Vick too hard cause I'm not consistent enough myself to judge people too harshly on animal cruelty.

AHungryWalrus
08-27-2011, 09:09 AM
Throwing stones in a glass house is always a great idea.

But, at least, since this thread was made, I now know the ladder of worth goes Dogs > OP > Vick.

PoopSandwich
08-27-2011, 09:14 AM
Vick wouldn't be getting endorsements and moving products if he wasn't the most electrifying player in the biggest sport for our country, but he is, and money talks.

Nikolas
08-27-2011, 11:18 AM
If there's one thing the American public loves more than seeing a public icon fall (OJ Simpson, Tiger Woods, Charlie Sheen), it's seeing these fallen stars earn redemption. Do I think Vick is truly, 100% sorry for what he did? Not really, but it doesn't matter. He paid for his actions, he lost his huge contract, and had to start over. And surprisingly, he's a far better QB now than he was before jail. Maybe a few months in jail would help improve Vince Young? ;)

So yes, he "deserves" his endorsements, as much as any pro athlete can be said to deserve them.