PDA

View Full Version : What Makes Luck Any Different?


billybeejr
08-31-2011, 05:10 PM
Everyone says Luck is this can't miss super-prospect. I don't necessarily disagree.

But how is Luck any different from guys like Matt Leinart, Brady Quinn, Jake Locker, and even Brian Brohm coming back? They were all "can't miss" at some point as well.

AntoinCD
08-31-2011, 05:18 PM
Even when Leinart won the Heisman he still had issues with driving the ball as his arm strength was average. He also had a ridiculous supporting cast including Reggie Bush, Lendale White, Dwayne Jarrett, Steve Smith etc

Brady Quinn had accuracy issues at Notre Dame but had a nice supporting cast with Samardzia and Carlson.

Locker's rating was based a lot on assuming he would have a similar progression in a pro style offense going into his senior season that he had in his junior year, which he didn't. He also had major accuracy questions.

Brohm wasn't rated as highly as the others(at least IMO)


Luck has so much going for him which won't(or at least shouldn't) fall apart this season. He has above average arm strength, is an accurate passer, has great size, is athletic, has great intangibles, is a winner etc.

Hes not a can't miss prospect because they dont exist, but he is pretty damn polished as a QB prospect.

keylime_5
08-31-2011, 05:26 PM
Everyone says Luck is this can't miss super-prospect. I don't necessarily disagree.

But how is Luck any different from guys like Matt Leinart, Brady Quinn, Jake Locker, and even Brian Brohm coming back? They were all "can't miss" at some point as well.

Leinart - lousy arm and immature, not a leader, commander checkdown. fell to #10 overall, was supposed to be a top 3 pick according to the internet.

Quinn - bad accuracy, extremely lousy on intermediate to longe range passes. had a good arm, but not above average in the NFL.

Locker - was very raw but expected to take the next step as a senior after looking greatly improved as a junior in a pro style system. Regressed as a senior. Still possesses elite physical tools and was a top 8 pick despite a ****** senior year.

Brohm - ??? why is he in this discussion?

Luck- excellent arm, accuracy, mobility, very very smart, big, knows the pro style offense, has put up major production through only two years of college ball. will be a junior this year and is good enough to start in the NFL already.

gpngc
08-31-2011, 05:28 PM
Luck is much better at football than those guys.

TACKLE
08-31-2011, 05:57 PM
Luck- excellent arm

Where is this notion coming from? His arm is very average and is no better than Brady Quinn's. He can get some distance on his deep balls but struggles and subsequently rarely attempts to drive the ball downfield or into tight windows. Andrew Luck has many strengths but the velocity on his throws is not one of them.

keylime_5
08-31-2011, 06:04 PM
well compared to other NFL starting QBs it's average, but compared to college QBs it's excellent. As a prospect he has more than enough of an arm like Matt Ryan and Sam Bradford and Peyton Manning and most of the other top QB prospects sans the Staffords, Russells, Cutlers, etc. of the world.

bucfan12
08-31-2011, 06:14 PM
Luck makes this Stanford team. I don't see that he has many or any top NFL prospects surrounding him on offense and they put up a ton of points.

Leinart had a ton of talent surrounding him.

Quinn never impressed me 1 bit. Never had the arm strength.

Locker was supposedly better than Bradford coming out. Some even compared him to John Elway and he stayed and so many scouts picked him apart after watching him closely.


Luck's downfall or weakness this year could be the loss of the coaching staff. Some say that's ridiculous, but look at Tom Brady. I don't know if he'd ever be successful if he wasn't under Bill Bellichiks guidance. Not comparing Harbaugh to Bellichick, but Josh Johnson had 47 TDs to 1 INT under Harbaugh in his 1 year playing for him.

However, I don't see Luck struggling this year. I think he has everything. That is just what teams and scouts could 'knit-pick' about him.

niel89
08-31-2011, 06:17 PM
Luck's lofty prospect status come from the culmination of all his attributes. He basically is, at a minimum, good in every facet of being a QB. He has all the mental parts, the mechanics, and he checks out well in all the physical parts.

His arm is strong enough to make all the NFL throws. He'll never be confused with Stafford but his arm is certainly strong enough for the NFL. He does need to drive the ball more but I think its because he tries to touch the ball in on deeper passes instead of just driving it in.

Also take into account his stats aren't it even coming from a high passing spread offense. The offense is very balanced. Luck just knows when to take advantage of the defense through the air, especially in the redzone with one on one coverage.

bucfan12
08-31-2011, 06:20 PM
Luck's lofty prospect status come from the culmination of all his attributes. He basically is, at a minimum, good in every facet of being a QB. He has all the mental parts, the mechanics, and he checks out well in all the physical parts.

His arm is strong enough to make all the NFL throws. He'll never be confused with Stafford but his arm is certainly strong enough for the NFL. He does need to drive the ball more but I think its because he tries to touch the ball in on deeper passes instead of just driving it in.

His arm is just as strong, if not Stronger than Ryan's and Bradford's, however both play in Dome's 8 times a year minimum.

QBs with weaker arms, such as Sanchez, seem to struggle in cold weather and high winds, especially in the meadow lands.

Ozzy
08-31-2011, 06:42 PM
billybeejr Everyone says Luck is this can't miss super-prospect. I don't necessarily disagree.

But how is Luck any different from guys like Matt Leinart, Brady Quinn, Jake Locker, and even Brian Brohm coming back? They were all "can't miss" at some point as well.Possibly, Matt Leinart had much better talent around him at USC, and Leinart was such a poor athlete that has hurt him in the NFL, he is below average athlete with a below average arm.

Brady Quinn, might have a point, but he was a good competitive and tough player, not really a star that had some amazing throwing arm, but have a point.

Locker was so up and down, and does not have the natural composure Luck has in the pocket. Both could be good players but I would take Luck's accuracy over him.

Luck has more skills and arguably less talent from day one than a lot of these players. But what people most like about him is his composure and calmness on the field, able to make plays and lead a football team. Ontop of being a fine athlete, big kid, strong and able to not get injured so far in his career. Much less his brains, kind of like Ponder, if Ponder was not so smart he would not have been taken that high in the draft, no way. But smart guys, intelligent quick guys able to learn fast, as a quarterback that helps you out a lot.

AntoinCD
08-31-2011, 07:28 PM
His arm is just as strong, if not Stronger than Ryan's and Bradford's, however both play in Dome's 8 times a year minimum.

QBs with weaker arms, such as Sanchez, seem to struggle in cold weather and high winds, especially in the meadow lands.

I'd say it is comfortably stronger than Bradford's. As was mentioned, he's not gonna get confused for Stafford or Jamarcus Russell for arm strength, but then again, neither are Paeyton Manning, Tom Brady or Drew Brees.

He doesn't float his intermemdiate passes and can get the ball down field on deep passes. Arm strength is also quite overrated IMO. Sure if you can't threaten to go deep or throw 18 yard outs etc with any velocity then defenses can really cheat up on the field, but even average arm strength combined with his other attributes is more than enough.

dannyz
08-31-2011, 07:39 PM
I think when you look at Andrew Luck the only real Weakness is his Arm and even that is good enough for the NFL, I mean you don't have to be Stafford, Russell, or Cutler to be good.Look at Cutler, his big arm does not work because he is not Accurate but Luck does not have the Strongest Arm but he can hit his guys at the right point.

keylime_5
08-31-2011, 07:45 PM
I wouldn't say it's a weakness, it's just not his biggest strength. Just like Peyton Manning's weakness or Tom Brady's weakness isn't their arm strength, even though neither came into the league profiled as having the best arm. And Cutler's problem I don't think is accuracy as much as it is decision making and playing for the Bears. Now Eli Manning, his problem is his accuracy. Luck won't have those kind of problems.

billybeejr
08-31-2011, 07:48 PM
How high of odds would you guys take if someone were to bet you that Luck would bust? 2 to 1? 5 to 1? 10 to 1? 100 to 1? What would these other guys have gotten?

And I brought up Brohm because before his senior season, and the rise of Matt Ryan, he was supposed to be Petrino's can't miss qb. Louisville was coming off a 12-1 season. Then his senior year he completely fell off.

niel89
08-31-2011, 07:59 PM
I would say its pretty low. Maybe 15% of him being a real bust. There aren't that many unknowns with Luck. Pro offense, plays under center, good talent around him but not super talented players.

I could see him turning out to be just a very good player over his career instead of this amazing dominant guy and people viewing him as a bust.

billybeejr
08-31-2011, 08:06 PM
I would say its pretty low. Maybe 15% of him being a real bust. There aren't that many unknowns with Luck. Pro offense, plays under center, good talent around him but not super talented players.

I could see him turning out to be just a very good player over his career instead of this amazing dominant guy and people viewing him as a bust.

This is what I was thinking too. There are so many factors that contribute to player's success, especially at the quarterback position.

bucfan12
08-31-2011, 08:17 PM
How high of odds would you guys take if someone were to bet you that Luck would bust? 2 to 1? 5 to 1? 10 to 1? 100 to 1? What would these other guys have gotten?

And I brought up Brohm because before his senior season, and the rise of Matt Ryan, he was supposed to be Petrino's can't miss qb. Louisville was coming off a 12-1 season. Then his senior year he completely fell off.

That's where you can't say Luck is a "cant miss" prospect, yet.

Brohm, after his Jr season, was slated as the number 1 QB prospect and elite caliber player. He stayed for his senior season and that season was without Bobby Petrino and he had a terrible year and was exposed.

I say before deeming Luck in the caliber of Peyton Manning or Tom Brady, let's see how he does with a new head coach and QB coach. However, I still think he's got a bright future in the NFL, but it's WAY TOO EARLY to say he's the next great QB.

CashmoneyDrew
08-31-2011, 10:09 PM
The difference is Brohm, Quinn and Locker weren't projected to be number one overall picks after their junior year. Brohm and Quinn were considered mid-first rounders if they had come out early. Locker was projected from five to 15 if he had come out early. Luck would have been the number one pick and started immediately for the Panthers if he had come out. All of those other guys were expected to improve in college by going back. Scouts are mostly hoping Luck just stays steady from last season.

bucfan12
08-31-2011, 10:21 PM
The difference is Brohm, Quinn and Locker weren't projected to be number one overall picks after their junior year. Brohm and Quinn were considered mid-first rounders if they had come out early. Locker was projected from five to 15 if he had come out early. Luck would have been the number one pick and started immediately for the Panthers if he had come out. All of those other guys were expected to improve in college by going back. Scouts are mostly hoping Luck just stays steady from last season.

Locker was projected to be the #1 overall pick over Sam Bradford had he come out early. That was why so many were watching and examining his play his senior year closely.

Brohm was considered a top 3-5 pick after his junior year. Only reason he wouldn't have gone 1 is because he didn't have the arm strength Jamarcus Russell had that the Raiders fell in love with.

Quinn was never projected as a top overall pick.

CashmoneyDrew
08-31-2011, 10:39 PM
I never saw Brohm projected as higher than in the 10s. Locker had a few very vocal proponents that said the Rams would've taken him 1 but I never bought that. He was even more raw as a junior and that was a much more stacked draft class than this past years when he went 8.

It could be debated forever but I think the highest Locker could have went in 2010 would have been 4 to the Redskins.

Da Big Harv
08-31-2011, 10:46 PM
some poor memory in this thread, Brohm was absolutely considered a potential elite top 3 pick after his Junior year.

CashmoneyDrew
08-31-2011, 11:12 PM
It's possible. I do have spotty memory. Link me to some respectable mocks late in his junior season that have him top 3 and I'll change my tune on him.

Woody56
08-31-2011, 11:26 PM
His arm is just as strong, if not Stronger than Ryan's and Bradford's, however both play in Dome's 8 times a year minimum.

QBs with weaker arms, such as Sanchez, seem to struggle in cold weather and high winds, especially in the meadow lands.

Sanchez doesn't have a weak arm and he played his best games in the freezing cold.

NotRickJames
08-31-2011, 11:44 PM
Everyone says Luck is this can't miss super-prospect. I don't necessarily disagree.

But how is Luck any different from guys like Matt Leinart, Brady Quinn, Jake Locker, and even Brian Brohm coming back? They were all "can't miss" at some point as well.

Luck is just better than those guys, lol.

Leinart I had pegged as a bust. Never liked him.

Whiffed horribly on Quinn. Wanted the Raiders to take him one overall. Still, would've been better than JaMarcus. At least Quinn tried but whatever.

Luck is much more accurate than Locker is.

Saints-Tigers
09-01-2011, 02:49 AM
Where is this notion coming from? His arm is very average and is no better than Brady Quinn's. He can get some distance on his deep balls but struggles and subsequently rarely attempts to drive the ball downfield or into tight windows. Andrew Luck has many strengths but the velocity on his throws is not one of them.


LMAO, gtfo dude, now you're just being a troll. You've been going against the grain so much with some of this ridiculous stuff that it's apparent you're trying to stir people up

Really? Brady Quinn? lmao.

Halsey
09-01-2011, 11:48 AM
All the positive talk about Luck is going to lead some people to make up faults just for the sake of being different.

"I don't think Luck is an elite prospect! I'm so different! Hey everyone, look at me!"

If you want to talk about Luck's faults, great, but find some actual faults. For example, his physical running style could lead to injury in the NFL.

Saints-Tigers
09-01-2011, 02:15 PM
All the positive talk about Luck is going to lead some people to make up faults just for the sake of being different.

"I don't think Luck is an elite prospect! I'm so different! Hey everyone, look at me!"

If you want to talk about Luck's faults, great, but find some actual faults. For example, his physical running style could lead to injury in the NFL.

Kind of agree with you for once.

bucfan12
09-01-2011, 04:17 PM
LMAO, gtfo dude, now you're just being a troll. You've been going against the grain so much with some of this ridiculous stuff that it's apparent you're trying to stir people up

Really? Brady Quinn? lmao.

Yeah, I laughed at that 1 too. I still don't know much about Luck's arm strength but I hear it's very good, but won't be compared in the Cutler, Stafford, Vick, Flacco or Freeman range. More like Brady/Manning/Ryan strength wise.

However, he's accurate and gets the ball where it's supposed to be.

Again, can't say he's the next big thing in the NFL yet since he hasn't played a down, but he's a prospect that has the potential to become elite. He just has it. Good character and leader as well as the mechanics.

soybean
09-01-2011, 04:21 PM
Luck's deep ball is pretty underwhelming if you ask me.

I do agree with the calm composure and the very intelligent part. I think that's what separates him.

Kellen Moore Status
rYhULSY6Yfo

soybean
09-01-2011, 04:24 PM
Leinart - lousy arm and immature, not a leader, commander checkdown. fell to #10 overall, was supposed to be a top 3 pick according to the internet.

Quinn - bad accuracy, extremely lousy on intermediate to longe range passes. had a good arm, but not above average in the NFL.

Locker - was very raw but expected to take the next step as a senior after looking greatly improved as a junior in a pro style system. Regressed as a senior. Still possesses elite physical tools and was a top 8 pick despite a ****** senior year.

Brohm - ??? why is he in this discussion?

Luck- excellent arm, accuracy, mobility, very very smart, big, knows the pro style offense, has put up major production through only two years of college ball. will be a junior this year and is good enough to start in the NFL already.



If this isn't the greatest example of hindsight being 20/20 then I have no idea what is.

ViperVisor
09-01-2011, 04:32 PM
Leinart
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/football/2006/draft/players/18512.html

Brohm
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/football/2008/draft/players/13232.html

Quinn
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/football/2007/draft/players/7367.html

bucfan12
09-01-2011, 04:35 PM
Luck's deep ball is pretty underwhelming if you ask me.

I do agree with the calm composure and the very intelligent part. I think that's what separates him.

Kellen Moore Status
rYhULSY6Yfo

Um, 1 pass you see underthrown and automatically his deep ball is underwhelming?

niel89
09-01-2011, 04:48 PM
I'm semi-excited to fight off the new trendy naysayers. I'm trying to think of what people will try to harp on over the next coming season. I'm thinking arm strength because it already has come up some.

All in all, Luck is the complete package. No part of his game is lacking. There are no strong flaws with him.

Shane P. Hallam
09-01-2011, 04:53 PM
There aren't many flaws. I was skeptical before last season. I thought he was a bit overhyped, needed to stay healthy, floated balls, etc. He proved me wrong last year, really took a big step forward. Full package that only an injury could derail, and even then, it probably wouldn't.

bucfan12
09-01-2011, 05:04 PM
I'm semi-excited to fight off the new trendy naysayers. I'm trying to think of what people will try to harp on over the next coming season. I'm thinking arm strength because it already has come up some.

All in all, Luck is the complete package. No part of his game is lacking. There are no strong flaws with him.

Yep. Agreed. However, you have to expect this though. When an elite prospect who clearly would have gone #1 decides to not enter the draft and play antoher year of college football, there are going to be those people that nit-pick every aspect to find any flaw in there game. Basically, gives them another year of tape.

Pat Sims 90
09-01-2011, 05:18 PM
I found a fault his Father is Oliver Luck.

SchizophrenicBatman
09-01-2011, 05:46 PM
As one of the biggest Luck shills from last season, I'm on board with the people who doubt his deep ball. It needs work

His arm strength on intermediate passes in underrated though. When he needs to drive a ball into a tight window he can.

I've never bought the Brady Quinn comp. Totally ridiculous. Luck was as good as Quinn coming out during his freshman season. I can at least see where people are going with the Leinart/Brohm comparisons

Although you'll notice both of their write ups include "struggles to drive the ball" and "cannot escape pressure with mobility"

You can argue about Luck's arm strength all you want but his mobility is a big part of the reason he's special

DraftSavant
09-01-2011, 05:51 PM
Wanna know why he's an elite prospect? Watch his feet in the pocket and how he reacts to the rush without actually looking at it. Very comfortable playing with bodies around him - one of the most underlooked aspects when scouting QBs.

Shane P. Hallam
09-01-2011, 05:57 PM
I found a fault his Father is Oliver Luck.

His father was not good, so he must not be good. :P

niel89
09-01-2011, 06:09 PM
Wanna know why he's an elite prospect? Watch his feet in the pocket and how he reacts to the rush without actually looking at it. Very comfortable playing with bodies around him - one of the most underlooked aspects when scouting QBs.

Good call. I was just watching some highlights, and he really works well with traffic in the pocket.

SchizophrenicBatman
09-01-2011, 06:16 PM
his pocket movement is elite

not just escaping pressure - but moving around to get a clean window, stepping up, drawing defenders then throwing on the move, etc

compare this to brady quinn - a guy who ran a 4.7 - who is unbelievably rigid in the pocket with his mechanics and cannot throw on the move at all

soybean
09-01-2011, 06:25 PM
Um, 1 pass you see underthrown and automatically his deep ball is underwhelming?

it's not one pass... it's one example.

YAYareaRB
09-01-2011, 07:24 PM
ill admit, i thought leinart and quinn would be good QBs in the league. ESPECIALLY Leinart with the team he landed with.

PrimetimeTheDon
09-12-2011, 10:02 PM
Luck's arm strength is unimpressive. He throws a lot of floaters in the middle of the field.

I've said since day 1 he does not overly impress me. He is not a lock #1 overall pick. He is not a lock to succeed.

His tools are not elite. I doubted guys like Stafford and Bradford to an extent, but they had elite qualites. Stafford had elite work ethic and arm strength (work ethic was evident and quite revealing when they did a show on NFL Network on him and Crabtree.. when Crabs acted like a primadonna). And Bradford inside 15 yards has always been filthy.

Luck doesn't have those things.

*shrug*

Don't be surprised to see him fall. He reminds me of Brian Brohm.

PrimetimeTheDon
09-12-2011, 10:07 PM
Yep. Agreed. However, you have to expect this though. When an elite prospect who clearly would have gone #1 decides to not enter the draft and play antoher year of college football, there are going to be those people that nit-pick every aspect to find any flaw in there game. Basically, gives them another year of tape.

Guys like Manning overcome it, guys like Leinart, Brohm, and other #1 overall locks fall to varying extents and sometimes ultimately fail.

The idea that giving an invidual more time to break away from what the person on TV is constantly shoving down his throat is a bad thing is erroneous. Considered objectively, this analysis can be revealing.

jrdrylie
09-12-2011, 10:17 PM
His accuracy is great. As are his mental ability, mobility, pocket awareness. I do worry about his deep ball. He is a very good prospect. But I don't agree with people who say that if teams like Jacksonville or Tennessee get the first pick they should draft Luck and completely give up on their second year, top-ten picks at QB.

yanksknicks
09-12-2011, 10:54 PM
If his arm is as good as Romo .... combined with all his other skills -- he will be elite.

SchizophrenicBatman
09-12-2011, 11:18 PM
Luck's arm strength is unimpressive. He throws a lot of floaters in the middle of the field.

I've said since day 1 he does not overly impress me. He is not a lock #1 overall pick. He is not a lock to succeed.

His tools are not elite. I doubted guys like Stafford and Bradford to an extent, but they had elite qualites. Stafford had elite work ethic and arm strength (work ethic was evident and quite revealing when they did a show on NFL Network on him and Crabtree.. when Crabs acted like a primadonna). And Bradford inside 15 yards has always been filthy.

Luck doesn't have those things.

*shrug*

Don't be surprised to see him fall. He reminds me of Brian Brohm.

massive hindsight bias here

pulling the work ethic card with stafford? really? how many guys could that be used on? blaine gabbert and christian ponder both looked like they had great work ethics in a TV puff piece. if they bust no one will mention that of course.

same with bradford. if the guy sucked everyone would be talking about how he had no standout tools and was overrated for x, y, z reasons

talk about "lock #1 picks" all you want. if a team is picking at 1 they probably need a qb. with the way the league is now you gotta take that chance when its available and worry about how he stacks up in comparison to the rest of the league later. you think the giants are crying about eli not being the best QB in the league with the ring they have? think the falcons wish miami took matt ryan so they could be stuck with jake long and chris redman?

did aaron rodgers have elite tools coming out of college? bunch of nfl scouts sure didnt think so with as far as he dropped

keylime_5
09-12-2011, 11:18 PM
He can certainly make all the throws. He has great footwork and a quick release to go with outstanding accuracy. He's similar to a better, more mobile version of Matt Ryan coming out of college, very polished. I guess if you ignore all those things he's average, what do you want? What made Peyton Manning worthy of the #1 pick coming out, geez.

Byrd430
09-12-2011, 11:49 PM
I am a fan of Luck, and I think he'll succeed at the next level.

His pocket awareness, comfort with the game, accuracy, and good decisions will be enough for him to do well at the NFL-level with the right team. His arm isn't the strongest at all, but I still feel like he could make all the throws. I think a good possession receiver/receiving TE would be a good tool for him to have.

I'm honestly thinking Romo with better decisions, and that guy could be elite.

FUNBUNCHER
09-13-2011, 01:54 AM
Whatever you think about Luck, IMO he's the safest pick to come into the draft in decades. Meaning that even if Luck falls short of expectations, he's still a solid 10+ year starter in the league.

But I think most expect him to develop into a top 5-10 NFL QB without much difficulty.
THe person who wrote that Luck is just a good football player playing QB really nailed it for me. Luck does so many things right and consistently at his position it almost hurts him in the eyes of analysts and fans, because you take for granted how well he's been playing for 2+ years at Stanford.

He's a guy that almost always seems to make the right decision with the football after the snap, which is still IMO the most important skill for a QB to develop.

niel89
09-13-2011, 02:04 AM
Luck has a bunch of great qualities and is elite in a couple too.

Physically he is solid all around. His height/weight is great at 6'4" 235. He moves tremendously in the pocket, especially with bodies around him, and is a good runner outside the pocket. His mechanics are completely sound. He doesn't have the Stafford/Mallett/Boller cannon but he is easily on par with Ryan or Bradford, I personally think its stronger but those guys have plenty of success with their tools. His deep ball does need work but I think he has the arm but just doesn't know how to properly use it deep yet. He has shown that he also has great accuracy and great touch on his passes.

I personally think his best qualities are from the neck up. He is a commander on the field and is a master of his offense. He puts his team in the best situations on each play. He does a good job identifying coverage before the play. He works his progressions very well, often going through 3+ reads. He stays calm in the pocket and rarely panics. His ability to understand his offense and his ability to absorb information is a huge advantage when installing new game plans each week and generally being able to handle a large complex offense. He is an incredibly humble guy and works his *** off to constantly get better. He also does a real nice job not turning the ball over. He has outstanding character and will never be the guy to get into trouble off the field.

I get to see the guy play week in and week out so maybe I am biased but I see him as the complete package. There is no part of his game that makes me say "That really could hold him back at the next level." I think that because its a given that he is the top player that people forget what made them think he was a top prospect in the first place.

ellsy82
09-13-2011, 02:21 AM
I'm the guy that thinks Nick Foles is the top QB in the 2012 NFL draft...so, don't listen to me. But I would say I've seen Luck hit every pro throw in any game I've ever watched him in. Works for me.

niel89
09-13-2011, 02:29 AM
Whatever you think about Luck, IMO he's the safest pick to come into the draft in decades. Meaning that even if Luck falls short of expectations, he's still a solid 10+ year starter in the league.

But I think most expect him to develop into a top 5-10 NFL QB without much difficulty.
THe person who wrote that Luck is just a good football player playing QB really nailed it for me. Luck does so many things right and consistently at his position it almost hurts him in the eyes of analysts and fans, because you take for granted how well he's been playing for 2+ years at Stanford.

He's a guy that almost always seems to make the right decision with the football after the snap, which is still IMO the most important skill for a QB to develop.

Quality post.

If you're looking at Luck's tools to see why he is a top player, you're looking at the wrong stuff.

deepthoughtlife
09-15-2011, 12:09 AM
Luck is a very good football player. Legitimate #1 overall type guy, but he's far from perfect. His accuracy is very good, and his arm is plenty good enough but he does have a mechanical issue that gets in the way at times. His plant foot points short, forcing him to over-rotate his upper body, compromising his accuracy and ball velocity at times. While entirely possible to fix, it would require a considerable amount of concentration, and perhaps reworking of other parts of his motion while adjusting to the change.

When I first started scouting luck for this last draft, I saw his issue, and started pushing him down the board, but I was wrong to do so. If you believe Matt Ryan was a legitimate high pick for his intangibles, you can't argue with Luck at #1. His intangibles are better, and so is his accuracy.

Luck isn't the best QB to come out even in the last few years though; Sam Bradford was definitely his better, though I would concede that picking Luck is safer than picking Bradford was.

I'm not sure he'll be the best QB out of this class, but if you think he isn't going to be good, you're fooling yourself.

If you're looking at Luck's tools to see why he is a top player, you're looking at the wrong stuff.

wogitalia
09-19-2011, 12:30 AM
I like Luck. The thing I pick up every time watching him is his pocket presence, it is flat out elite, reminds me of Manning eerily in his ability to step up through pressure and stay downfield with his vision.

That skill alone is massive, it's the number 1 skill that Manning, Brees and Brady all have for mine, Rodgers is another who does it flat out well. Really helps that he plays in a pro-style offense as well because he really gets to show that element of his game off.

I'd say his arm is above average but far from elite. His intangibles are just about perfect. So really he is an elite mental prospect with above average physical tools at a position that is as much mental as it is physical.

Something has to go wrong for him not to be the top pick, is probably the best all around QB prospect I've seen in my time but I don't place an overly high amount of regard on physical tools for QBs and have a lot time for guys with the mental skillset.

BigBanger
09-19-2011, 09:24 AM
Everyone says Luck is this can't miss super-prospect. I don't necessarily disagree.

But how is Luck any different from guys like Matt Leinart, Brady Quinn, Jake Locker, and even Brian Brohm coming back? They were all "can't miss" at some point as well.
First, I'll address the issues with the QBs you mentioned.

Matt Leinart had a very weak arm and no fast ball. His game simply didn't translate to the next level. He had a bit of a wind up and a fairly slow delivery. When you combine that with his below average arm strength, it's very difficult to be an above average starter in the NFL. When you have shear physical deficiencies to go along with an entitlement personality where he was living like a Hollywood star and only taking one class, a dance class ... he was just living it up at a program where Football was secondary. He could go party and bang Paris Hilton on Friday, then go dominate on Saturday. He was in a great offensive system surrounded by a collection of some of the most gaudy talent college football has seen in the past 20 years ... Leinart was a product of the system, he wasn't a worker and he had average physical tools ... at best.

Brady Quinn ... don't get me started with him. I don't know if I hated any one prospect more than him. He had atrocious accuracy and terrible ball placement. He was awful in the face of pressure and simply collapsed in the face of it, making terrible decisions and forcing throws. He had bad footwork, no poise. He also never beat anyone in college. He flat out sucked and was a product of a media driven hype machine. Notre Dame will do that for you. He was also a prized recruit who had high expectations going into college.

Jake Locker was extremely raw, but the most talented of the aforementioned QBs. His skill set is pretty special, but accuracy from within the pocket is an issue. He also needs work on his base and his footwork from within the pocket. He's a bit of a project. He did find himself in a great situation (team) though. Locker started "falling" because he showed no improvement during his senior season and was surrounded by terrible players. Locker was simply overhyped based on his potential. I think he'll be a starting QB in the NFL. I think he'll develop into a pretty good one. Not a Pro Bowl QB, but a solid player. People saw the tape and realized that he simply wasn't the guy that everyone was expecting him to be. When accuracy is an issue, that is not good. That's a big hurdle to overcome. There might not be anything more important than accuracy.

Brian Brohm ... what? I don't even know what he has to do with this conversation. He was never hyped as a #1 overall pick. Other than Petrino's system creating another overhyped QB prospect, Brohm was little more than a good college QB (who also had a bad senior season after Petrino left). Brohm kinda sucked. Very average tools. Was a product of the system. Is he even in the NFL anymore?


Of all those guys, I would say that Andrew Luck is incredibly different. I don't know if Luck is the best QB prospect since Peyton Manning, but he's certainly in the conversation. Again, that's the media; it's what they do: overrate and overhype people, situations, events, you name it. Scott Wright blogged about Luck saying he was "Special." But every year there's a QB that's always the next great thing and always treated like he's "special." Jake Locker was the next John Elway. Tim Tebow the next Steve Young. In reality ... they weren't. JaMarcus Russell had the greatest workout of all time. What did that mean? Not much. Sam Bradford's character, his accuracy, intelligence, release ... he's already been pegged as the future face of the NFL. There's QBs, almost every year, that are hyped up to almost unobtainable levels. Luck is getting that same treatment because he is the guy. Luck is the total package. Scouts see it. Everyone sees it. I don't have any doubts about Andrew Luck. He is / will be the #1 overall player on my board; it's a given. He will be the #1 overall player on a lot of people's board. He is going #1 overall in the 2012 NFL Draft. It's a lock. It is gonna happen. But here's why he is different from those guys you mentioned:

Andrew Luck manages the game and crucial game situations as good as any QB I've ever seen. He makes clutch plays in crucial situations. If it's a throw, or if it's him tucking it down and picking up 7 yards on 3rd and 4 after he's gone through all his progressions ... he's moving the chains and consistently making positive plays, putting the offense in manageable down and distances. He makes great decisions with the football and takes what the defense gives him. For a guy with the amount of experience he has, he simply has a phenomenal understanding of game management. He plays within the offense, controls the offense and dictates to the defense whatever it that he wants to do. His decision making is at an elite level, and I think its pretty rare. That's probably his best quality, which doesn't show up on highlight reels.

But when you see him playing in a throw back NFL styled system with 2 and 3 TE sets, fullbacks ... it tends to make it more impressive because it's an NFL scheme predicated on play action. His control and execution of the offense is nearly perfect. He makes very good pre-snap reads. He knows where he's going with the football before it's snapped. He knows what's going to be open and what isn't. He has a pretty quick release, but makes throws with anticipation and timing. He can slide in the pocket, avoid the rush, create throwing lanes, keep his eyes down field and buy time for his receivers to get open. When things break down, he has more than enough athletic ability to get upfield and gain positive yardage.

Everyone knows about his intangibles, which are off the charts. He's extremely smart and has a high football IQ. He's dedicated. He's a great leader, hard worker and a great competitor. He's a gutsy player. He has NFL size with an NFL arm. He's accurate, especially in the short to intermediate areas of the field. His fundamentals are good, but his footwork is inconsistent when he's in the face of pressure. He can throw from different angles, he throws well on the run and shows good poise in the pocket when the pocket is collapsing around him. He has very few flaws, but he does have some flaws.


Firstly, he's not an exceptionally talented player. He's very talented, but he doesn't have Matthew Stafford's arm or elite physical abilities. Luck's accuracy and timing with passes deep down field are merely average at this point in his career. The deep ball is the last thing to come with QBs, but if I were to pick out one major negative, it would be his accuracy and timing on throws deep down the field, fitting the ball into tight zones (coverage). Most of his interceptions from last year were on throws more than 20 yards down field.

Another negative would be his decision making when under pressure. When he's attempting to escape a blitz or avoid pressure up the middle, Luck will try to force throws into coverage that he should not attempt. He still has to learn that sometimes you need to take a sack. One play that sticks out was in the Bowl game against Virginia Tech when he tried to escape pressure and threw the ball into a crowd while a defensive linemen was draped all over him. The ball went right through Jayron Hosley's hands, but it would have been a pick 6 if he caught it. It's the kind of negative that all QBs have; obviously if you pressure a QB (even Tom Brady), he will make mistakes and make some bad decisions, force some throws. But he does have to continue limiting those forced throws when under pressure. For a player that's as deceive as he is with the football, it's shouldn't be an issue to continue limiting the amount of negative / risky / forced plays.

JHL6719
09-22-2011, 03:37 PM
Chances Luck measures in under the 6'4" height that he's listed at?

keylime_5
09-22-2011, 04:32 PM
who cares? have you seen the guy? He's definitely a big guy, at least 6'3".

MI_Buckeye
09-23-2011, 05:27 AM
First, I'll address the issues with the QBs you mentioned.

Matt Leinart had a very weak arm and no fast ball. His game simply didn't translate to the next level. He had a bit of a wind up and a fairly slow delivery. When you combine that with his below average arm strength, it's very difficult to be an above average starter in the NFL. When you have shear physical deficiencies to go along with an entitlement personality where he was living like a Hollywood star and only taking one class, a dance class ... he was just living it up at a program where Football was secondary. He could go party and bang Paris Hilton on Friday, then go dominate on Saturday. He was in a great offensive system surrounded by a collection of some of the most gaudy talent college football has seen in the past 20 years ... Leinart was a product of the system, he wasn't a worker and he had average physical tools ... at best.

Brady Quinn ... don't get me started with him. I don't know if I hated any one prospect more than him. He had atrocious accuracy and terrible ball placement. He was awful in the face of pressure and simply collapsed in the face of it, making terrible decisions and forcing throws. He had bad footwork, no poise. He also never beat anyone in college. He flat out sucked and was a product of a media driven hype machine. Notre Dame will do that for you. He was also a prized recruit who had high expectations going into college.

Jake Locker was extremely raw, but the most talented of the aforementioned QBs. His skill set is pretty special, but accuracy from within the pocket is an issue. He also needs work on his base and his footwork from within the pocket. He's a bit of a project. He did find himself in a great situation (team) though. Locker started "falling" because he showed no improvement during his senior season and was surrounded by terrible players. Locker was simply overhyped based on his potential. I think he'll be a starting QB in the NFL. I think he'll develop into a pretty good one. Not a Pro Bowl QB, but a solid player. People saw the tape and realized that he simply wasn't the guy that everyone was expecting him to be. When accuracy is an issue, that is not good. That's a big hurdle to overcome. There might not be anything more important than accuracy.

Brian Brohm ... what? I don't even know what he has to do with this conversation. He was never hyped as a #1 overall pick. Other than Petrino's system creating another overhyped QB prospect, Brohm was little more than a good college QB (who also had a bad senior season after Petrino left). Brohm kinda sucked. Very average tools. Was a product of the system. Is he even in the NFL anymore?


Of all those guys, I would say that Andrew Luck is incredibly different. I don't know if Luck is the best QB prospect since Peyton Manning, but he's certainly in the conversation. Again, that's the media; it's what they do: overrate and overhype people, situations, events, you name it. Scott Wright blogged about Luck saying he was "Special." But every year there's a QB that's always the next great thing and always treated like he's "special." Jake Locker was the next John Elway. Tim Tebow the next Steve Young. In reality ... they weren't. JaMarcus Russell had the greatest workout of all time. What did that mean? Not much. Sam Bradford's character, his accuracy, intelligence, release ... he's already been pegged as the future face of the NFL. There's QBs, almost every year, that are hyped up to almost unobtainable levels. Luck is getting that same treatment because he is the guy. Luck is the total package. Scouts see it. Everyone sees it. I don't have any doubts about Andrew Luck. He is / will be the #1 overall player on my board; it's a given. He will be the #1 overall player on a lot of people's board. He is going #1 overall in the 2012 NFL Draft. It's a lock. It is gonna happen. But here's why he is different from those guys you mentioned:

Andrew Luck manages the game and crucial game situations as good as any QB I've ever seen. He makes clutch plays in crucial situations. If it's a throw, or if it's him tucking it down and picking up 7 yards on 3rd and 4 after he's gone through all his progressions ... he's moving the chains and consistently making positive plays, putting the offense in manageable down and distances. He makes great decisions with the football and takes what the defense gives him. For a guy with the amount of experience he has, he simply has a phenomenal understanding of game management. He plays within the offense, controls the offense and dictates to the defense whatever it that he wants to do. His decision making is at an elite level, and I think its pretty rare. That's probably his best quality, which doesn't show up on highlight reels.

But when you see him playing in a throw back NFL styled system with 2 and 3 TE sets, fullbacks ... it tends to make it more impressive because it's an NFL scheme predicated on play action. His control and execution of the offense is nearly perfect. He makes very good pre-snap reads. He knows where he's going with the football before it's snapped. He knows what's going to be open and what isn't. He has a pretty quick release, but makes throws with anticipation and timing. He can slide in the pocket, avoid the rush, create throwing lanes, keep his eyes down field and buy time for his receivers to get open. When things break down, he has more than enough athletic ability to get upfield and gain positive yardage.

Everyone knows about his intangibles, which are off the charts. He's extremely smart and has a high football IQ. He's dedicated. He's a great leader, hard worker and a great competitor. He's a gutsy player. He has NFL size with an NFL arm. He's accurate, especially in the short to intermediate areas of the field. His fundamentals are good, but his footwork is inconsistent when he's in the face of pressure. He can throw from different angles, he throws well on the run and shows good poise in the pocket when the pocket is collapsing around him. He has very few flaws, but he does have some flaws.


Firstly, he's not an exceptionally talented player. He's very talented, but he doesn't have Matthew Stafford's arm or elite physical abilities. Luck's accuracy and timing with passes deep down field are merely average at this point in his career. The deep ball is the last thing to come with QBs, but if I were to pick out one major negative, it would be his accuracy and timing on throws deep down the field, fitting the ball into tight zones (coverage). Most of his interceptions from last year were on throws more than 20 yards down field.

Another negative would be his decision making when under pressure. When he's attempting to escape a blitz or avoid pressure up the middle, Luck will try to force throws into coverage that he should not attempt. He still has to learn that sometimes you need to take a sack. One play that sticks out was in the Bowl game against Virginia Tech when he tried to escape pressure and threw the ball into a crowd while a defensive linemen was draped all over him. The ball went right through Jayron Hosley's hands, but it would have been a pick 6 if he caught it. It's the kind of negative that all QBs have; obviously if you pressure a QB (even Tom Brady), he will make mistakes and make some bad decisions, force some throws. But he does have to continue limiting those forced throws when under pressure. For a player that's as deceive as he is with the football, it's shouldn't be an issue to continue limiting the amount of negative / risky / forced plays.

What are you talking about with Brohm? He was absolutely hyped as a potential No. 1 overall pick, and most people were stunned when he returned for his senior season, because he was considered a top ten pick after his junior campaign. You say he was a product of the Petrino system? You do realize that Petrino was an OC and a head coach in the NFL right? And that his "system" is one of the few true pro-style offenses in college football?

Also, Brady Quinn was really good at Notre Dame, and he didn't always wilt in the face of pressure like you said. Quinn and Brohm were both excellent college QBs, who for reasons I am not entirely certain of have had dubious professional careers. I thought they would both be decent, unspectacular NFL QBs.

I'm not going to lie, this was kind of an obnoxious read. I agree with the majority of what you wrote, but there was a stinky know-it-all quality throughout, especially when you start pointing out specific plays as if they really mean anything. Please try not to be so pretentious in the future.

Rosebud
09-23-2011, 05:50 AM
Luck reminds me of Eli coming out. Incredible intangibles, while not otherworldly physical tools he's got the size, mobility, strength and arm to make any throw well. His timing and accuracy are good but will need to improve when he starts working with NFL talent. Clutch. Luck reminds me quite a bit of Eli and Eli's the best QB prospect I've ever scouted. I just hope he ends up on a team that lets him let it fly once he's ready and that he doesn't get hamstrung by a bad OC. I guess the biggest difference is the deep ball. Eli has a better arm and so worked his deep ball more at Ole Miss, that ability to throw incredible timing throws that hit guys in their hands mid-stride only for the ball to bounce off and into the dirt is a skill few in the entire league can say they match Eli in.

LonghornsLegend
09-23-2011, 08:34 AM
but look at Tom Brady. I don't know if he'd ever be successful if he wasn't under Bill Bellichiks guidance.

I've read some golden comments on this board the last few weeks. Gotta love it.

stephenson86
09-23-2011, 09:56 AM
As good as Luck is, I reckon he won't be regarded as the best QB from the 2012 class when all is said and done.

FUNBUNCHER
09-23-2011, 11:36 AM
Luck reminds me of Eli coming out. Incredible intangibles, while not otherworldly physical tools he's got the size, mobility, strength and arm to make any throw well. His timing and accuracy are good but will need to improve when he starts working with NFL talent. Clutch. Luck reminds me quite a bit of Eli and Eli's the best QB prospect I've ever scouted. I just hope he ends up on a team that lets him let it fly once he's ready and that he doesn't get hamstrung by a bad OC. I guess the biggest difference is the deep ball. Eli has a better arm and so worked his deep ball more at Ole Miss, that ability to throw incredible timing throws that hit guys in their hands mid-stride only for the ball to bounce off and into the dirt is a skill few in the entire league can say they match Eli in.

If Eli's last name wasn't Manning, no way IMO he would have been considered a 1/1 prospect.

A top 10 player, yes, but EVERYTHING ELi did at Ole Miss was seen through the 'Manning filter'.

Luck's mobility outside of the pocket and down field is one of his traits that consistently is overlooked. He has the ability to rollout, head upfield and truck DBs.

It's not a bad comparison Eli/Luck as pro prospects, but I feel much higher on Luck's upside, and Philip Rivers for that matter coming out of NC State, than I did about Elijah.

Giantsfan1080
09-23-2011, 11:38 AM
Eli had 0 weapons at Ole Miss and still consistently won in the SEC. That was always a big thing in my eyes.

bigbluedefense
09-23-2011, 12:38 PM
Prior to Luck, Eli was the best qb prospect I personally I ever saw. To be fair, I haven't followed the draft as long as most, but Eli was a money prospect, anyone who says otherwise is using hindsight.

I think Luck has surpassed him though as the best qb prospect I've seen. Luck is just so safe. That's what I loved about Eli too coming out.

Rosebud
09-23-2011, 12:45 PM
Prior to Luck, Eli was the best qb prospect I personally I ever saw. To be fair, I haven't followed the draft as long as most, but Eli was a money prospect, anyone who says otherwise is using hindsight.

I think Luck has surpassed him though as the best qb prospect I've seen. Luck is just so safe. That's what I loved about Eli too coming out.

I'm with you. 2004 was the first draft I really paid attention to in depth and I still haven't seen a QB prospect I'm as confident will be a top 15 starter in the NFL as Eli was...even though I wanted Robert Gallery over him at the time...although if I'd have to pick a QB since Eli that I absolutely loved and had complete faith in I'd have to go with Cutler, Bradford and now Luck.

Saints-Tigers
09-23-2011, 12:48 PM
Peyton, Palmer, Stafford, Luck, Vick, Leaf

The only QB prospects I liked more than Eli coming out in my time frame. I like Luck by a clear margin over him, don't think Eli's decision making is up to par at all with him.

keylime_5
09-23-2011, 01:06 PM
i was a lot younger and less knowledgable then, but i liked big ben the most in 2004, then eli, though i thought he was a little overrated b/c of his bloodlines. his accuracy and tendency to overthrow receivers has always been his biggest weakness, though when he had 6'5" Plaxico Burress it wasn't such a problem. I thought Rivers would be just decent b/c he had weird mechanics and didn't have a great arm, but he's probably the best of the 3 from 2004. I do think Eli was probably a better QB prospect than any between 2004 and now.

BigBanger
09-23-2011, 01:35 PM
What are you talking about with Brohm? He was absolutely hyped as a potential No. 1 overall pick, and most people were stunned when he returned for his senior season, because he was considered a top ten pick after his junior campaign. You say he was a product of the Petrino system? You do realize that Petrino was an OC and a head coach in the NFL right? And that his "system" is one of the few true pro-style offenses in college football?
I'm not going to debate facts.

Brohm does not belong in the same conversation as Brady Quinn, Matt Leinart or Jake Locker ... all those QBs had legitimate Top 10 hype and all went in the first round. Maybe you're talking about internet hype? The same kind of hype that gets names like Andre Woodson in the Top 10 on a yearly basis. That kind of hype gets, roughly, 136 players in the Top 10 just about every year. So in that sense, you're right because Brian Brohm might have been one of those 136 players going into the '08 Draft with Top 10 potential.

Ryan was the only QB with #1 overall hype from the 2008 Draft class. There was no QB prospect even close him in that draft. None. That's a fact Jack.


Also, Brady Quinn was really good at Notre Dame, and he didn't always wilt in the face of pressure like you said. Quinn and Brohm were both excellent college QBs, who for reasons I am not entirely certain of have had dubious professional careers. I thought they would both be decent, unspectacular NFL QBs.

I'm not going to lie, this was kind of an obnoxious read. I agree with the majority of what you wrote, but there was a stinky know-it-all quality throughout, especially when you start pointing out specific plays as if they really mean anything. Please try not to be so pretentious in the future.
I don't debate Brady Quinn anymore. You wanna say he was good under pressure and that I was wrong, go ahead, I don't really care. I debated all his issues for about 4 months leading up until his draft and it was exhausting. If you don't understand what made him a failure, then that's on you. Or maybe you should just read your last sentence in bold.

I was telling the OP the reasons for each players failures / reason why they fell in the draft or turned into outright busts. And I used some hindsight vision when talking about Matt Leinart. I was wrong about Matt Leinart even though all the criticisms were there. He started falling on my draft board after I had him pegged as the best player in the draft the day he said he was returning for his senior season. Leinart was anything but a "can't miss" prospect and faced a ton of scrutiny pre-draft. I remember Merril Hoge ripping him apart for his arm strength, saying he couldn't make NFL throws and that he didn't belong anywhere near the 1st round. I remember watching him break down Leinart's game tape, and I couldn't refute a word he said. All the stuff about his personality, I learned later, but the OP called him a "can't miss" prospect. Well, he wasn't. None of those guys were.

I dropped Leinart into my Top 15 just after watching Hoge rip his game apart. A lot of people just blamed the scouts for over-analyzing his game and ripped Hoge for attempting some sort of shock value to ESPN. It's called learning from past mistakes. If you don't look at the prospects you wrong about and don't question why you were wrong, what didn't you see, then you're going to sit here and think, "What's the difference between Luck and Leinart." There is a big difference. That's not saying Luck doesn't have any flaws and that he's a perfect prospect, but there is a big difference and you should use hindsight vision to understand the differences.

Continue being ignorant on what made those guys fall / bust. It looks good on you.

FUNBUNCHER
09-23-2011, 01:48 PM
I still think Leinart failed because of his work ethic and playing for a coach in Arizona who didn't draft him AND personally IMO didn't like him, Ken Whisenhunt.

Leinart doesn't have Chad Pennington's arm and by that I mean subpar, he's probably right there with Colt McCoy.

I still think Leinart is a great reclamation project in Houston and will get another chance to start again in the league.

USC always has great college skill position talent, but few Trojan QBs have been able to exploit that talent like Leinart did.

He had a fine rookie season under Denny Green. I'd love to have him as a backup with the potential to work his way back into the starting lineup.

billybeejr
09-23-2011, 01:56 PM
Ryan wasn't even a hyped prospect going into the season. I

Saints-Tigers
09-23-2011, 02:04 PM
I think Matt lost what really made him special coming into the NFL, and that was his confidence, and his command over the huddle and his offense. LEinart always knew what was going on, made great adjustments, and was never afraid to make big plays down the field.

I don't think it's a tools issue, he's more gifted than Philip Rivers physically IMO, but his confidence became cockiness, and he didn't want to put in the extra work needed to succeed, and he didn't get in the film room enough to capitalize on his cerebral nature as a QB.

He always shot a little high and hung the ball up, but he played with guys that were amazing going up and getting the ball, and couldn't get it done.

Really though, ever since that big hit in the NC game against Texas, he hasn't looked like the confident Matt Leinart, he's looked too timid.

FUNBUNCHER
09-23-2011, 02:19 PM
Agree with your analysis on Leinart, Saints-Tigers.

People are too quick to write off Leinart like he was destined to bust, which isn't true.

Rosebud
09-23-2011, 02:55 PM
Thing is Leinart never developed as well as he should have because he never had to make that many tough throws. He didn't hone in his accuracy or knowledge on the field to the point where it became a weapon and he just got to manage a stacked offense. It's really hard to say how much work it would've taken for Matt to learn how to make NFL throws against NFL defenders without dominant receivers that could just out leap anybody.

Saints-Tigers
09-23-2011, 03:03 PM
I don't think that was a problem though. He went straight into a team with Fitz and Boldin, who could still outleap anyone, probably better than Dwayne Jarrett could (in relation to who he was playing).

BigBanger
09-24-2011, 01:35 AM
People are too quick to write off Leinart like he was destined to bust, which isn't true.
Leinart regressed significantly once defenses started to realize he couldn't push the ball downfield. He looked ******* awful.

PEOPLE ... the guy is terrible. It's been how many years? I mean c'mon. The guy ******* sucks. Flat out sucks. He has no chance in the NFL. The only thing he's in competition with is to see who looks better holding a clipboard, he or Charlie Whitehurst. That's his only competition. Because in that phase of the game, he's ******* great.

I can't believe people still act like there is hope for this guy. Reminds me of people thinking Brady Quinn was going to change his whole career around once he left Cleveland. WTF.


Ryan wasn't even a hyped prospect going into the season. I
uMxHBfPQgtE

nobodyinparticular
09-24-2011, 12:13 PM
Everyone says Luck is this can't miss super-prospect. I don't necessarily disagree.

But how is Luck any different from guys like Matt Leinart, Brady Quinn, Jake Locker, and even Brian Brohm coming back? They were all "can't miss" at some point as well.

I would say the biggest thing is that each of them had at least one major fault.

Leinart - terrible arm strength
Locker - Consistency and accuracy
Brohm - slow wind up and missed Petrino
Quinn - a little bit of all of these--consistency, accuracy and arm strength. He was average or slightly above in everything, but nothing really NFL quality.

FUNBUNCHER
09-24-2011, 02:49 PM
Leinart regressed significantly once defenses started to realize he couldn't push the ball downfield. He looked ******* awful.

PEOPLE ... the guy is terrible. It's been how many years? I mean c'mon. The guy ******* sucks. Flat out sucks. He has no chance in the NFL. The only thing he's in competition with is to see who looks better holding a clipboard, he or Charlie Whitehurst. That's his only competition. Because in that phase of the game, he's ******* great.

I can't believe people still act like there is hope for this guy. Reminds me of people thinking Brady Quinn was going to change his whole career around once he left Cleveland. WTF.



uMxHBfPQgtE


You go from analytical to ranting from thread to thread.
What's the point??

I gave you the benefit of the doubt, but NO ONE on this board ripped Sam Bradford pre-draft more than you did. Completely negative, no pro potential at all, the most overrated prospect, etc.

You even started a thread with a play-by-play breakdown titled 'Why Sam Bradford sucks.'

Leinart's lack of success in the NFL isn't a black or white issue, as in, 'that dude simply can't play'.
As a pro there have been questions about his preparation and arm strength, but there were factors beyond his control too.
The HC that drafted Leinart was fired and Whisenhunt was hired, who really never believed in Leinart and had no willingness or desire to develop a 2nd year QB.
Once the Cards inserted Kurt Warner into the starting lineup in '07, it was a wrap.

Take a look at Leinart's rookie season in 2006. He had a 405 yard game, almost beat the SB bound Chicago Bears, and had seven games over 60+ % completion percentage. Only 12 picks, but he only managed to hook up on 11 TDs in eleven games.

IMO Leinart became more concerned as a pro about not making mistakes instead of being aggressive downfield. He only started for a season for Arizona so it's hard to say if this was coaching or Leinart's gradual adaptation to the pro game.
Personally I don't see a huge physical difference between Bradford and Leinart. However their style of play isn't the same and Bradford seems more willing to trust his arm and WRs downfield to make a play.
Leinart appears to play tentative at times and doesn't trust his arm or the reads he's seeing. I don't know if that's become hardwired for Leinart in the pros or it's a bad habit he learned in Arizona.

Some coaches who start rookies have one prime directive; 'rookie X whatever you do, don't LOSE the game.' Joe Gibbs was this way and it's the reason why he NEVER started a rookie QB. He coached Jason Campbell in the same manner and why many Skins fans believe JC plays too often not to lose instead of challenging defenses with his superior arm strength.

Other coaches want rookie QBs to just get out there and PLAY. Good or bad, and learn from your mistakes. Winning football games isn't the only priority.

I think Leinart will get a second chance somewhere, the same way that Grossman did.

But Leinart was the reason USC football become must see TV for me again.
More than any one player, he revitalized that program and brought them back to national prominence. From the first road victory against a nationally ranked Auburn team his RS frosh year, Leinart proved himself to be one of the most important players on offense for the Trojans.

People love to argue that Leinart benefited from elite skill position talent at USC. At RB, Bush and Lendale White, yes. Oline? A given. Defense?? One of the best in the country. At WR?? I disagree.
Mike Williams was a stud in 2003 and '04. Steve Smith is the only USC WR who made a difference in the pros.
But no way did Keary Kolbert/Dwayne Jarrett/Dominique Byrd/ 'make' Leinart. Really, Bush was the 'star' of those teams on offense because he drew so much attention from opposing defenses and opened up opportunities for everyone else.

But to assume that Leinart was a robo-QB for Carroll and ANY QB would have dominated on those USC teams, I think underestimates how well Leinart played for the Trojans.

Saying a guy 'sucks', 'flat out sucks',' this guy is terrible', isn't analysis, it's emotion.

Will Leinart ever become a pro-bowl Qb?? Probably not.
Can he develop into a credible starter from some team, in the right offense??
Maybe.
But I'm not gonna write off the guy's career because things didn't work out for him in Arizona.

FWIW, I think Leinart is better than either of the Skins' two QBs, Beck/Grossman, and I'm learning to 'love' Rexy.