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View Full Version : Kellen Moore = Colt McCoy?


Caulibflower
09-03-2011, 08:25 PM
Eh? Awful lot of similarities.

BeerBaron
09-03-2011, 08:28 PM
Kellen Moore's arm isn't even strong enough to hold up a clipboard.

Remember Max Hall last year for the Cardinals? Everyone was impressed with how well he looked, enough to earn him a roster spot and backup job. Then, he actually got into the game and could barely complete a pass beyond 5 yards. Moore would be the same deal.

ATLDirtyBirds
09-03-2011, 08:37 PM
Seriously. I think our backup HS QB had more arm strength than Moore.

Babylon
09-03-2011, 08:46 PM
I think he's sort of a poor man's Matt Leinart. That might get him a backup gig at the next level.

BeerBaron
09-03-2011, 08:51 PM
I think he's sort of a poor man's Matt Leinart. That might get him a backup gig at the next level.

Matt Leinart is actually Matt Leinart and he probably shouldn't have a backup job at the next level.

jrdrylie
09-03-2011, 09:18 PM
The opposing QB is much more like Colt McCoy than Kellen Moore is.

Pat Sims 90
09-03-2011, 09:24 PM
Andy Dalton has a bigger arm then Moore and that is saying something.

keylime_5
09-03-2011, 09:28 PM
more like Kellen Moore = not even on a practice squad in NFL after going undrafted. Guy is like 5'11"/180 and has a noodle.

Brent
09-03-2011, 09:30 PM
I bet he will make a nice HS position coach.

ElectricEye
09-03-2011, 09:31 PM
I can see him being a backup simply because he's hard to get rid of. He's NOT an NFL prospect at all though. Not as a starter or a guy you are even comfortable with starting games. But he's hard to get rid of. Ty Detmer stuck around the NFL for years despite not having the ability to do so at all.

BeerBaron
09-03-2011, 09:35 PM
He's picking Georgia apart right now, but every single pass goes less than 10 yards downfield. That won't fly in the pros.

They showed a graphic earlier breaking down his pass attempts. He was like 1/3 in pass attempts beyond 15 yards. And the one completion was for 20.

Brent
09-03-2011, 09:37 PM
seemingly all his attempts are under 15 yards and to the left side.

BeerBaron
09-03-2011, 09:42 PM
Moore might actually replace Ken Dorsey as the "1" on my my arm strength scale of 1-10.

ElectricEye
09-03-2011, 09:44 PM
I've actually seen Moore put it up before. He's very good at placing the ball somewhere where the receiver can position his body and get it, but nobody is THAT good at compensating for lack of arm. He leaves it entirely up to his receivers.

TACKLE
09-03-2011, 09:46 PM
Andy Dalton has a bigger arm then Moore and that is saying something.

weren't you the guy who said the bengals would pass on a franchise qb this year because they could wait and get kellen moore in the first next year?

Bob Sanders Dreadlock
09-04-2011, 09:45 AM
He's picking Georgia apart right now, but every single pass goes less than 10 yards downfield. That won't fly in the pros.

They showed a graphic earlier breaking down his pass attempts. He was like 1/3 in pass attempts beyond 15 yards. And the one completion was for 20.

I understand the concerns but it is also the system he is playing and it works effectively and has him being one of the best quarterbacks in the country for the last 2 years. Yesterday they also dropped some stat that kellen moore had the most completions for 20 yards or more in the last year or two( don't remember the exact stat). It is hard to believe a QB that has been so dominant his arm only amounts to a broke water pistol. Guess i will have to pay more attention.

cmarq83
09-04-2011, 10:19 AM
I think his bigger problem is that he's too small to play QB in the NFL. We've seen guys with zero arm strength get by in the NFL before in spurts like Chad Pennington and Kyle Orton. I think if he puts on a little weight he could potentially be a decent backup in the NFL.

hawkeye123
09-04-2011, 11:04 AM
Kellen Moore's arm isn't even strong enough to hold up a clipboard.

Remember Max Hall last year for the Cardinals? Everyone was impressed with how well he looked, enough to earn him a roster spot and backup job. Then, he actually got into the game and could barely complete a pass beyond 5 yards. Moore would be the same deal.

Seriously. I think our backup HS QB had more arm strength than Moore.

Andy Dalton has a bigger arm then Moore and that is saying something.

You guys are ******* high.

Have you seen the WR's he has to throw too? He has no choice but to throw only 5 yards off the LOS every time.

He used to throw some BOMBS to Titus Young.

Caulibflower
09-04-2011, 11:26 AM
He used to throw some BOMBS to Titus Young.

CzBAL-BTUW4

No one's going to argue he has a really strong arm, but obviously he can throw it 60 yards down the field.

BeerBaron
09-04-2011, 11:31 AM
He used to throw some BOMBS to Titus Young.

I recall some of those. They were high floating passes. Everything he throws seems to float with little zip. That's the part that gets you killed in the NFL. The holes in the defense close a hell of lot faster and if you don't have the gun to zip it through them, you're going to fail.

Even post-surgery Pennington and Orton can put heat on those shorter and intermediate passes. I'm not sure that Moore can.

descendency
09-04-2011, 11:59 AM
Arm Strength means zip, not depth.

Almost anyone can heave a ball 60 yards. (technique is required...)

Hurricanes25
09-04-2011, 03:42 PM
Arm Strength means zip, not depth.

Almost anyone can heave a ball 60 yards. (technique is required...)

Exactly. People always associate arm strength with distance and it's just wrong. Like you said, most can get a lot of air under the ball and rainbow it 60yards down the field. There is a big difference between how far you can throw the ball and how hard you can throw the ball.

Caulibflower
09-05-2011, 01:27 AM
Isn't that a problem of technique, then? Of not positioning one's feet and shoulders in a way that allows them to drive the football? It seems to me that if a person can throw it 60 yards, they ought to be physically able to throw a pretty zippy 30 yard. And I'm not a Kellen Moore fan at all, by the way, but I do think that as the season goes on we're going to hear more and more Colt McCoy comparisons... Similar size (Colt's a bit stockier), the wins, the completion percentages, the prominence of their programs...their lack of arm strength. In reality, Kellen Moore just isn't really the type of quarterback I like, but I do wonder if there's a team that would take him in the middle rounds if he can gain 10 pounds or so by the combine and measure over 6 feet.

Ozzy
09-05-2011, 07:58 AM
Wow a lot of people dislike this guy huh? That is a surprise, he can play, and arm strength is overrated, and I do not think his arm is as bad as everyone says it is. The kid wins, is a fine leader, and is accurate, that is extremely important.

He will be a backup in the NFL and get his chance, and who knows might catch onto a team for awhile.

I totally agree, if Colt McCoy can hack it in the NFL, Kellen Moore can too because yes they are a lot a like. McCoy might have been a better athlete overall, but Moore has a more accurate arm and is more of a pocket passer.

nepg
09-05-2011, 11:30 AM
McCoy is a better scrambler, but Moore is a better QB in every aspect. I'd definitely take Kellen Moore as my QB. He'd be a great fit for Indy or NO.

tjsunstein
09-05-2011, 12:10 PM
He's not going to be an All Pro but he will find a team at the next level. Far worse QBs have gotten a shot.

SimonRath
09-05-2011, 12:16 PM
if penningtons terrible arm can make it in the NFL then Kellen deff can make it as at leasta solid backup

keylime_5
09-05-2011, 12:20 PM
Pennington wasn't 5'11"/190 either. Who is the last QB sub 6'0" tall who has made a team? If you are gonna be that short you better be a helluva runner and have immaculate accuracy and throw with good zip downfield and that is not Moore.

and what is this mularkey about moore being a better QB than colt mccoy. mccoy completed 70% of his passes one season and almost/should've won the heisman his junior year at texas, was a 3rd round pick and is currently a starting QB in the NFL. Moore will never come close to those things. He has better size and throws a better ball too.

ElectricEye
09-05-2011, 12:45 PM
Judging by the pace of things here, I think the closer to the draft it gets the more people are going to like this guy.

I disagree with that sentiment, but I understand wanting to see him get a shot. There's always an exception to the rules, but Moore has a LOT working against him. Colt McCoy as an example isn't perfect as is and he's hardly a guy who has proved himself as an even average quarterback at the next level yet either. More promising than some gave him credit perhaps, but this "if McCoy can do it why can't Moore?" argument is sort of weak based on that premise alone.

Hurricanes25
09-05-2011, 01:53 PM
if penningtons terrible arm can make it in the NFL then Kellen deff can make it as at leasta solid backup

Pennington had a decent arm when he came into the league. It was after the injuries and surgeries that he lost his strength. Pennington is also a pretty big guy. He is 6'3. Moore is 5'11 at best.

keylime_5
09-05-2011, 01:57 PM
yeah, guys like Pennington and Philip Rivers and Drew Brees aren't guys with big arms, but they can make the throws. I suppose if Ken Dorsey can stay in the league for as long as he did as a backup then Moore can, but his measurables and arm combined with that Boise system that is very QB friendly will work against Moore.

Raiderz4Life
09-05-2011, 02:01 PM
Who is the last QB sub 6'0" tall who has made a team?

Doug Flutie...FLutie Dropkick ftw!! lol

CJSchneider
09-05-2011, 02:05 PM
Pennington wasn't 5'11"/190 either. Who is the last QB sub 6'0" tall who has made a team?

http://www.netbrawl.com/uploads/9c899ab839ad94724b403d5faca47d0a.jpg

Line for short QB's starts behind me.

SolidGold
09-05-2011, 02:13 PM
I miss Flutie, he is my favorite player of all time

Bob Sanders Dreadlock
09-05-2011, 02:13 PM
yeah, guys like Pennington and Philip Rivers and Drew Brees aren't guys with big arms, but they can make the throws. I suppose if Ken Dorsey can stay in the league for as long as he did as a backup then Moore can, but his measurables and arm combined with that Boise system that is very QB friendly will work against Moore.

What? I must have missed where Texas and Oklahoma do not run QB friendly systems.

HoopsDemon12
09-05-2011, 02:21 PM
http://www.netbrawl.com/uploads/9c899ab839ad94724b403d5faca47d0a.jpg

Line for short QB's starts behind me.

I'm glad someone finally got to it!

The guy is a QB. He isn't an athlete like a lot of these guys coming out now a days. Yes the velocity on his throws aren't quite what an NFL franchise QB should have, but who says Montana had extreme velocity on his throws?

Find the right system for him and he could be a player, regardless he is too good a QB not to end up as a back up somewhere.

Very very worst, and i don't wish this upon him AT ALL .... he could come up north and play in the CFL.... shutter...

keylime_5
09-05-2011, 02:21 PM
read that post again and highlight where it says anything about texas or oklahoma.

ElectricEye
09-05-2011, 02:24 PM
What? I must have missed where Texas and Oklahoma do not run QB friendly systems.

Texas and Oklahoma's systems have worked against QB's too...

PossibleCabbage
09-06-2011, 03:07 AM
I think the arm strength issue is overplayed. Guys do get stronger arms in the NFL; watching Aaron Rodgers at Cal, you never would have predicted that he would someday throw the prettiest deep ball in the NFL.

But Kellen Moore's lack of size is pretty much going to relegate him to a backup for the duration of his NFL career, and he doesn't have the athleticism that shorter guys who have done well at QB (Vick is 3/8" taller than Moore, Flutie's at least an inch and a half shorter; Moore has no chance in a footrace.)

But if you can throw a 3rd day pick at a QB for "poise, smarts, and moxie" he's worth it. I've seen worse QBs get drafted.

wogitalia
09-06-2011, 05:02 AM
I like Moore. He just seems to make the throws he needs to make.

He is an awful pro prospect but really there is no reason he should be a decent college player either, just seems to hit the targets.

That said, I have a massive man crush on left QBs, it just looks better!

Raiderz4Life
09-06-2011, 03:19 PM
I think the arm strength issue is overplayed. Guys do get stronger arms in the NFL; watching Aaron Rodgers at Cal, you never would have predicted that he would someday throw the prettiest deep ball in the NFL.

I remember he held the ball up too high at Cal. Near his earhole, for a quicker deliver on the short-mid routes. Mayock would say he would need to bring it down a bit.

Bob Sanders Dreadlock
09-06-2011, 03:25 PM
Texas and Oklahoma's systems have worked against QB's too...
Bradford and McCoy seemed to have done well so far. I just hate the system argument unless it was a triple option offense or something like that. He is executing what he is supposed to do almost perfectly.

read that post again and highlight where it says anything about texas or oklahoma.

So Texas and Oklahoma don't have QB friendly systems?

BeerBaron
09-06-2011, 05:27 PM
Did Kirk Herbstreit really just say what I think he said on Sportscenter?

It was close to:

"...I know everyone likes Andrew Luck, but he (Moore) makes great decisions."

Is that some sort of suggestion that he's anywhere near as good as Luck? Seriously?

SolidGold
09-06-2011, 05:32 PM
Did Kirk Herbstreit really just say what I think he said on Sportscenter?

It was close to:

"...I know everyone likes Andrew Luck, but he (Moore) makes great decisions."

Is that some sort of suggestion that he's anywhere near as good as Luck? Seriously?

What was the context? Was he talking about college qbs? or in terms of pro prospects?

BeerBaron
09-06-2011, 05:34 PM
What was the context? Was he talking about college qbs? or in terms of pro prospects?

Now that i think about it, it may have been a "Heisman Watch" or something. I was half zoned out and perked when I heard those words uttered.

keylime_5
09-06-2011, 05:35 PM
So Texas and Oklahoma don't have QB friendly systems?

so what if they do? my post was only concerning the evaluation of Moore as a prospect, not comparing him to OU or UT players. Moore plays for Boise, and the fact that their system has produced a bunch of weak armed, undersized successful QBs who never sniffed the league will work against him. Oklahoma's offense that made Josh Heupel and Josh White look like stars weren't positives in the evaluation of Sam Bradford, but Sam had the tools and the accuracy throwing downfield to be an elite QB prospect.

PossibleCabbage
09-06-2011, 08:31 PM
Now that i think about it, it may have been a "Heisman Watch" or something. I was half zoned out and perked when I heard those words uttered.

Yeah, Moore deserves to be in the same conversation as Luck in terms of Heisman candidates. Putting them in the same conversation as NFL prospects is laughable.

Moore plays for Boise, and the fact that their system has produced a bunch of weak armed, undersized successful QBs who never sniffed the league will work against him.

I think, and this is just a guess, know that Boise could never sniff any of the same kinds of QB prospects that teams like Texas and Oklahoma get. There's nothing specific about Chris Peterson's offense that makes you noodle-armed and small, it's just that those are the guys you can recruit when you're a school located in Idaho with an enrollment of 20,000. If Boise were to someday recruit a 6-3 rocket-armed QB who puts up great numbers and goes 50-2 as a four-year starter... I don't think the NFL is going to hold his Alma Mater against him.

Today we pretty much have to learn to evaluate the prospect, not the program, when looking at QBs, and that's something that it looks like we can do.

ElectricEye
09-06-2011, 08:35 PM
What was the context? Was he talking about college qbs? or in terms of pro prospects?

I really don't see what wrong with saying Moore is on par as collegian player. Luck is clearly the head and shoulder better pro prospect, but if we're talking purely about how they are at this level there's nothing wrong with it. Moore has been far more prolific statistically as well.

keylime_5
09-06-2011, 08:58 PM
I think, and this is just a guess, know that Boise could never sniff any of the same kinds of QB prospects that teams like Texas and Oklahoma get. There's nothing specific about Chris Peterson's offense that makes you noodle-armed and small, it's just that those are the guys you can recruit when you're a school located in Idaho with an enrollment of 20,000. If Boise were to someday recruit a 6-3 rocket-armed QB who puts up great numbers and goes 50-2 as a four-year starter... I don't think the NFL is going to hold his Alma Mater against him.

Today we pretty much have to learn to evaluate the prospect, not the program, when looking at QBs, and that's something that it looks like we can do.

I agree, but we're dealing with a guy who is 5'11"/190 and has a weak arm who can't make anywhere near all the throws you need to be serviceable in the NFL, and he plays for a school that has QBs who have great stats and are in the heisman race every year. Not quite as overblown as Hawai'i was under June Jones or Texas Tech under Mike Leach, but it's the same idea that their system makes the QBs better than they really are. If Moore was at a Big Ten or SEC school I have my doubts he'd have ever become a starter, I think a team like Boise was perfect for him.

Saints-Tigers
09-06-2011, 11:41 PM
Kellen Moore doesn't have the strongest arm of all time, but neither does Aaron Rodgers!!!

That's basically what this thread is turning into.

Bob Sanders Dreadlock
09-06-2011, 11:52 PM
I agree, but we're dealing with a guy who is 5'11"/190 and has a weak arm who can't make anywhere near all the throws you need to be serviceable in the NFL, and he plays for a school that has QBs who have great stats and are in the heisman race every year. Not quite as overblown as Hawai'i was under June Jones or Texas Tech under Mike Leach, but it's the same idea that their system makes the QBs better than they really are. If Moore was at a Big Ten or SEC school I have my doubts he'd have ever become a starter, I think a team like Boise was perfect for him.


What other great QB has come out of Boise? Jared Zabransky? LOL. It is not like Moore just dumped over an SEC school or anything.

SolidGold
11-18-2011, 10:17 AM
Not that I am agreeing with their projections but I have read in the past week or so from Dilfer, Don Banks and Draft Insider (Tony Pauline) that Kellen Moore is being viewed as a 3rd or 4th rounder. I am not sure if Banks, Pauline and Dilfer have inside info from NFL personnel men or are just giving their opinion.

I would argue a team could use a 6th or 7th on him but I never thought anyone thinks highly enough of him for him to be projected that high.

Just kind of surprising.

jrdrylie
11-18-2011, 10:20 AM
Not that I am agreeing with their projections but I have read in the past week or so from Dilfer, Don Banks and Draft Insider (Tony Pauline) that Kellen Moore is being viewed as a 3rd or 4th rounder. I am not sure if Banks, Pauline and Dilfer have inside info from NFL personnel men or are just giving their opinion.

I would argue a team could use a 6th or 7th on him but I never thought anyone thinks highly enough of him for him to be projected that high.

Just kind of surprising.

If a team spends a 3rd or 4th round pick on Moore, that will be a waste of a decent pick. Moore is a 3rd QB with absolutely no upside.

FUNBUNCHER
11-18-2011, 10:35 AM
If a team was looking for a solution at backup QB, Kellen Moore has to be at the top of that list IMO.

He may not be a guy you want to start for you 16 games a season, year after year. But in spots I think Moore can win games in part-time duty at the NFL level.

I think like others have stated that his size will be Moore's biggest limiting factor.

Hurricanes25
11-18-2011, 12:32 PM
I think like others have stated that his size will be Moore's biggest limiting factor.

And arm strength.

BeerBaron
11-18-2011, 12:37 PM
Size and arm strength indeed. Just one could be overcome, though it would be difficult.

For instance, Doug Flutie had some success despite being tiny. Though he had better arm and some athleticism. Drew Brees is also not very tall, but he's thicker built than Moore with a much better arm.

Chad Pennington post-shoulder surgery did not have a very good arm, but could get a little zip on shorter stuff and made do as a game manager.

Moore just got shafted on all of the importance measurables.

keylime_5
11-18-2011, 02:29 PM
This thread was originally to compare Moore to McCoy. McCoy is bigger and much more athletic. I think size and athleticism are very overlooked things around here for a QB. Everyone wants to know about arm strength and statistics. McCoy is very mobile and athletic and tough. Flutie was the same way. Brees can move pretty well too. Moore has good pocket awareness but he isn't gonna do a lot on the run. I can't imagine spending a 3rd/4th round pick on a guy like Moore. Small QBs with weak arms do not rise on draft day.