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J-Mike88
09-19-2011, 05:24 PM
I know we have some great guys in here who can come up with some serious discussion & ideas here.

It's pretty clear that dudes are getting bigger, faster, stronger, more aggressive these days in football. Even a half-blind ref can see that.

What makes me mad are the people who complain about the NFL trying to prevent the ones to QBs by calling penalties on defenders hitting them late, or in the head, knees, etc.
I agree, the taps to the head should not be personal fouls.

But all these low hits to QBs (and to runners or receivers, like Jordan Shipley yesterday) CAN & NEED to be legislated to try and prevent THOSE needless injuries.

Nobody here except Pudge probably watched the Bengals game yesterday, but that hit on Shipley was cheap and dirty, but that's how a lot of puzzy DBs tackle these days, especially when they have free hits. Others, like Dunta Robinson, will go high and try and KO the player. The guy who hit Shipley blindly simply ripped his ACL and ended his season.

Anyway, I think we all agree the NFL is better when the stars and best players are playing.

Seeing scrubs at QB, that's uglier football.
Seeing scrubs at WR or RB, it also hurts.

I want to see what the smart folks in here like Pudge & others would do to try and cut down on some injuries, if they were mythically named the NFL's new Safety Czar, and sole duty was to implement 3 new rules 100% designed to cut down on the 'worst' injuries. What can be prevented?

I realize injuries like Jamaal Charles and others are going to happen. There will always be injuries.

But hits like the one we saw crush Brady, take out Willis McGahee at the U, Carson Palmer, Anquan Boldin, DeSean Jackson, Mohammad Masaquoi, etc. can be prevented IMO.

Seriously, what could/would you do?

Saints-Tigers
09-19-2011, 05:29 PM
Players hit low because apparently you can get flagged for things like "leading with your shoulder" lol.

Raiderz4Life
09-19-2011, 05:31 PM
Its also not a good idea to go high on a guy like Steven Jackson....gotta go low.

tjsunstein
09-19-2011, 05:55 PM
Less than a quarter of defensive players these days even know how to form tackle.

J-Mike88
09-19-2011, 06:17 PM
Less than a quarter of defensive players these days even know how to form tackle.
That's what I am talking about.

Guys are taught (good coaching) to "see what they are hitting".

Now not to be naive, guys of yesterday also led with their head on occasion.
Witness:
http://rayonsports.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/10/StrattonTacklesLincoln.jpg

But notice he's not head-hunting like Donta Robinson.
Or knee-nailing, like the guy on Shipley absorbed.

http://l.yimg.com/a/p/sp/editorial_image/b2/b23df279096aeea2ce0ba4684e7c54b5/dunta_robinsons_sunday_hit_reminds_of_last_years_n asty_week_.jpg

See what you are tackling?

http://cageradio.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/ryan-clark2.jpg
Poor McGahee.
http://www.manlyweb.com/sports/injuries/mcgahee.jpg

J-Mike88
09-19-2011, 06:18 PM
Too much of this.... is there anything that can be done to prevent some of them?

http://sports.popcrunch.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/01/willis-mcgahee-doing-okay-after-hit.jpg

nepg
09-19-2011, 06:23 PM
Less than a quarter of defensive players these days even know how to form tackle.
Yeah, but if you use proper form to tackle, you get penalized for 15 yards. Ask Andre Carter.

tjsunstein
09-19-2011, 06:34 PM
Yeah, but if you use proper form to tackle, you get penalized for 15 yards. Ask Andre Carter.
Form tackles are penalties, 'clean' tackles are cause for injuries.

NFL has to do something.

nepg
09-19-2011, 07:06 PM
But really, they need to get rid of those hard plastic helmets that have allowed for a lot of the torpedo tackling and cause a large portion of the injuries.

jrdrylie
09-19-2011, 07:16 PM
I know some of the helmet-to-helmet hits are dirty but not all. A lot of times, a defensive back will be running towards the receiver who is in the air. The DB doesn't launch himself at the receiver, keeps his head up, and does everything by the book. As the receiver comes down due to gravity, their helmets hit.

That's not dirty. That's not a penalty. It's physics. It's gravity. Maybe Goodell should start fining and suspending Sir Isaac Newton.

stephenson86
09-19-2011, 07:17 PM
The only things I can think of are penalise players much harder for being totally reckless when going into tackles such as Dunta and the way he tackled Maclin last night. But other than that you can't really do anything, the players KNOW how to form tackle, but seem to choose to HIT people instead of TACKLE them.

CJSchneider
09-19-2011, 07:18 PM
Now not to be naive, guys of yesterday also led with their head on occasion.
Witness:
http://rayonsports.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/10/StrattonTacklesLincoln.jpg



There is noting wrong with that tackle. He will hit the player in the belt buckle with his shoulder making a V with his head and right shoulder, driving the ball carrier back. Perfect.

WMD
09-19-2011, 07:20 PM
In the future, we will have breakaway limbs and nobody will get injured.

ChiFan24
09-19-2011, 07:21 PM
Kill Bill Polian; undo all of his rules; take away the incentive to spread the field; stop high speed collisions.

M.O.T.H.
09-19-2011, 07:32 PM
I really do wonder if the Leonard Leap will be next on the chopping block, now that it has resulted in a season ending injury. (Nick Collins)

tjsunstein
09-19-2011, 07:38 PM
I really do wonder if the Leonard Leap will be next on the chopping block, now that it has resulted in a season ending injury. (Nick Collins)
I don't see it happening.

M.O.T.H.
09-19-2011, 07:39 PM
I don't see it happening.

I would hope not, you just never know with the current state of things. It's illegal in pop warner or something, wouldnt be shocked to see Goodell tear a page out of their rule book, as stupid as it would be.

edit...actually it's against the rules in Ohio's High School athletic association. How random is that? haha. I dont know how wide spread it actually is, among other High school atheltic associations, however.

J-Mike88
09-19-2011, 08:28 PM
But really, they need to get rid of those hard plastic helmets that have allowed for a lot of the torpedo tackling and cause a large portion of the injuries.
+ Rep.....

How would you guys penalize the ones like Dunta Robinson, or the cheap low hits to the QB knees?
Let's focus on the ones that are preventable.
What happened to Jamaal Charles, Nick Collins yesterday.... even my over-protective self couldn't have prevented those.
But I believe the ones on Shipley and Maclin, etc. can easily be prevented with sharper teeth in the rulebooks. Those are the opportunities to safe some things up and keep some players on the field instead of becoming hospital patients.

TitansCJftw
09-19-2011, 11:11 PM
In the future, we will have breakaway limbs and nobody will get injured.

.../thread

Complex
09-19-2011, 11:33 PM
Change the 5 yard bump from 5 to 7 yards, it will probably slow down some of those over the middle head to head collisions.

wogitalia
09-20-2011, 12:44 AM
Nobody here except Pudge probably watched the Bengals game yesterday, but that hit on Shipley was cheap and dirty, but that's how a lot of puzzy DBs tackle these days, especially when they have free hits. Others, like Dunta Robinson, will go high and try and KO the player. The guy who hit Shipley blindly simply ripped his ACL and ended his season.

This is on the NFL. You now get fined for hitting people high, even if it is just part of a tackle. The only body part that you can safely target is the legs, if you aim for legs you are safe from any kind of fine.

Really it's all the stupid rule changes though, dig up threads from 3 or 4 years ago when they started them and you will see the more astute posters on here pointing these things out.

You ban players being allowed to bump and jam receivers, thus creating far more space, the most effective way to take someone down in space is to hit them low and hard and take away their legs or to take a run up and hit them as hard as possible. Then you ban option B of those two and wonder why everyone starts hitting low.

The NFL has made just about as many rule changes as possible to speed up the game and get players run ups outside, corners have to be fast enough to keep up with this, so they aren't big enough to form tackle a lot of the players.

It's a vicious spiral, I'm all for protecting players but the NFL has prioritised the head(which is the part of the body that was already protected) above all else, this means that the players are being forced to hit low. I think the NFL has put far too much emphasis on protecting the head and not enough on the legs, I'd rather players going helmet to helmet than helmet to knee but I've done an ACL before and never been concussed so maybe my priorities are wrong...

That said, the obvious solution to everything would be to remove the helmets but the adjustment that would cause is going to have a lot of collateral damage, players aren't going to change overnight and there would be a lot of injuries but with how the head has become protected, really all the helmets serve as now are weapons, you basically can't touch a players head anyway legally.

Borat
09-20-2011, 01:12 AM
2-hand touch.

Also, did you know the NFL has InjuriezZZzzz

descendency
09-20-2011, 01:34 AM
It's a vicious spiral, I'm all for protecting players but the NFL has prioritised the head(which is the part of the body that was already protected) above all else, this means that the players are being forced to hit low. I think the NFL has put far too much emphasis on protecting the head and not enough on the legs, I'd rather players going helmet to helmet than helmet to knee but I've done an ACL before and never been concussed so maybe my priorities are wrong...

People don't have life altering complications (in general... there are exceptions) from a hit to the knees. Sure, you may not be able to walk (rare exception), but there seems to be a high amount of well conditioned athletes dying at very young ages. Our basic health education books tell us that those kinds of people (good exercise, good diet, wealthy, etc) should live a very long time. . . and they are dying 15-20 years younger (on average) than normal people.

There is a very good reason why the NFL is emphasizing the head area.

edit: I do agree with your post though. The NFL has basically set up rules to generate as much offense as possible and the side effect is that it has decreased safety as a whole.

prock
09-20-2011, 04:42 AM
The only things I can think of are penalise players much harder for being totally reckless when going into tackles such as Dunta and the way he tackled Maclin last night. But other than that you can't really do anything, the players KNOW how to form tackle, but seem to choose to HIT people instead of TACKLE them.

Dunta is just a piece of **** player. He went out of his way to headbutt Maclin. It wasn't that he just accidently hit him with his head, he tried to. He should be suspended, this isn't his first offense.

Ness
09-20-2011, 05:22 AM
Form tackles are penalties, 'clean' tackles are cause for injuries.

NFL has to do something.
Not really. It's a business. As long as offenses are putting up huge numbers the fat cats will sit back and just rake in the dough. The integrity of the game went out the door a long time ago. Rules will just continue to be juggled year in and year out and never really be addressed. I can already see Goodell trailing off in a response to an irrelevant topic when addressed with the issue point blank.

Ness
09-20-2011, 05:25 AM
Here's an idea: don't play the game if you value your life. This should be the number one rule in the NFL.

What the NFL is trying to do is "have their cake and eat it too". And you can't, nor should you. Football is a contact sport. You are going to get hurt. Hurt bad. It's inevitable, especially if you have a long and prolific career. If this is not what you want to do, then don't play the game. Be a spectator, like a lot of other people. That's perfectly fine. Doesn't make you any less of a person. If you like the game and want to participate, be warned, YOU WILL GET HURT.

Man I wish I was at that NFL Forum last season so I could have asked Goodell the questions no one seems to be willing to ask.

J-Mike88
09-20-2011, 05:52 AM
Here's an idea: don't play the game if you value your life.
If you like the game and want to participate, be warned, YOU WILL GET HURT.

That's a give-up attitude. That might work for the 49ers these days, but I want ideas in this thread about what can be done to cut down on some of these injuries.

You don't think there's anything that can be done?
None of them can be cut down?

Were you against the penalty for the horse-collar? The chop block? The spearing? The helmet-to-helmet?

They are put in to cut down on injuries. These are people out there, not ***ing robots. Yes there will always be injuries out there. But some can be prevented.

Clark Judge from CBS.com has some ideas here. That's what this thread is for, not to just punt on 2nd down and say don't play if you don't want to give up.

http://www.cbssports.com/mcc/blogs/entry/6384866/32112919
The NFL wants to clean up illegal hits to the head, so it should start cracking down on blatant offenders. Fining Dunta Robinson $40,000 is not what I'd consider cracking down.

Robinson blew up Philadelphia wide receiver Jeremy Maclin just as he blew up Philadelphia wide receiver DeSean Jackson a year ago. He was fined $25,000 in 2010 after appealing the original $50,000 penalty, and he apologized.

Great, except he did it again, and obviously taking money from this guy doesn't get the message across. So something stronger should have been done.

Something like a suspension.

Now that would have gotten his attention, as well as the attention of his peers. You want to clean up shots to the head ... you want to protect the defenseless ... then get serious about punishing the repeat offenders.

The NFL said it would, indicating that it could extend punishment to the clubs that employ them. But taking money from Dunta Robinson is just doing what you did a year ago ... and it didn't work. So make sure he knows you mean what you say.