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View Full Version : Top Rookies After Week 2, According to Profootballfocus


JBCX
09-22-2011, 06:51 AM
Interesting article - this is a weekly feature on their site in which they rate the top rookies after every week:

http://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2011/09/22/race-for-rookie-of-the-year-the-defense-rises/


1. Von Miller, OLB, Denver Broncos, +9.4 (123 snaps)

Controversy. But while the man below has made some errors, this guys hasn’t. Not just that, he’s made plays. Beating tackles for pressure and hits and making plays in the run game, Miller is number two on the year in our 3-4 OLB rankings.
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2. Cam Newton, QB, Carolina Panthers, +10.8 (152 snaps)

Take away those second and third quarters and I couldn’t avoid giving it to the so far excellentNewton. He’s been remarkable, especially on balls thrown 20 yards or further. In that area he’s completed 10 of 15 (with one drop) for a league leading 370 yards. Second place is a result of the ‘all positions created equal’ philosophy this race embraces.
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3. Phil Taylor, DT, Cleveland Browns, +5.7 (92 snaps)

So he hasn’t really been tested yet. So what.Tayloris fourth in our defensive tackle rankings after another solid showing. Leads all defensive tackles in stops with seven of them.
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4. Mike Pouncey, C, Miami Dolphins, +4.4 (139 snaps)

Has made a better start to his NFL career than his brother did a year ago, yet nobody seems to have realized this. Was superb againstHouston, bossing both Shaun Cody and Earl Mitchell. Currently dominating our ‘Pouncey of the Year’ competition.
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5. Ryan Kerrigan, OLB, Washington Redskins, +4.1 (108 snaps)

Could very well win the race if he plays Brandon Keith every week. Picked up four pressures and a sack on the Cardinals right tackle.
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6. Jabaal Sheard, DE, Cleveland Browns, +3.3 (131 snaps)

An iron man who has missed just seven snaps in two games. So far making an impact with his pass rushing to the tune of one sack, two hits and three pressures in two games.
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7. J.J. Watt, DE, Houston Texans, +3.1 (106 snaps)

Not so good against Miami where he picked up just the solitary hit, but he did block a field goal.
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8. Tyron Smith, RT, Dallas Cowboys, +1.7 (140 snaps)

Would like for him to be a little more visible in the run game, but just two pressures given up in two games to date. Already represents big upgrade at RT spot for Cowboys.
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9. A.J. Green, WR, Cincinnati Bengals, +2.1 receiver grade (124 snaps)

Got a glimpse of what he is capable of in Denver, catching 10 of 14 balls thrown his way as the Broncos defensive backs were simply overmatched against him.
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10. Denarius Moore, WR, Oakland Raiders, +2.2 receiver grade (79 snaps)

Do you think Leodis McKelvin is glad to see the back of him?


I like how Miller is the #1 rookie thus far, and clearly the #1 defensive rookie. I had him pegged as my DROTY before the preseason started.

A Perfect Score
09-22-2011, 07:55 AM
I like how they say Miller is #2 in their 3-4 OLB rankings when the Broncos run a 4-3. Lots of research put into this article.

tjsunstein
09-22-2011, 08:18 AM
Cam Newton has to be number one on every list. Supastar jokes aside, he's easily the most impressive on either side of the ball. Kerrigan has been phenomenal as well.

FUNBUNCHER
09-22-2011, 09:01 AM
Great way to drive eyeballs to your site. Rank the top NFL rookies after WEEK TWO@@!! and rank the dude who's obliterated the record books for rookie QBs behind an OLB.

Von Miller's stats for two games; 6 tackles, 2 assisted, 1 forced fumble, 1(!!) sack.
Cam Newton's stats for two games; 62% completions, 854 yards, 3 TDs, 4 INTs, 2 rushing TDs.

Yeah, Von Miller has clearly been the most impactful rookie after two games.smh.

bigbluedefense
09-22-2011, 09:02 AM
I question footballfocus's scouting abilities.

I've seen their breakdowns of some players in some games, and when I go back and watch the DVR I come away with a very different analysis then they do at times.

My recent example I guess would be Linval Joseph. Joseph flashed tons of potential last year and pushed the pocket every time he came in the lineup. According to them, he was mediocre. But I graded him out very high based on his snaps.

The Giants clearly felt the same way, letting Coffield walk and starting Joseph this year. And our dline has improved bc of it, and I'd safely say that Joseph has already outperformed Coffield in the same role.

So I don't really see what they see.

Rosebud
09-22-2011, 09:09 AM
I question footballfocus's scouting abilities.

I've seen their breakdowns of some players in some games, and when I go back and watch the DVR I come away with a very different analysis then they do at times.

My recent example I guess would be Linval Joseph. Joseph flashed tons of potential last year and pushed the pocket every time he came in the lineup. According to them, he was mediocre. But I graded him out very high based on his snaps.

The Giants clearly felt the same way, letting Coffield walk and starting Joseph this year. And our dline has improved bc of it, and I'd safely say that Joseph has already outperformed Coffield in the same role.

So I don't really see what they see.

Psh, bitter giants fan. Barry Cofield is one of the best passrushing DTs in the NFL...

keylime_5
09-22-2011, 11:26 AM
yeah, I agree that Cam Newton should without question be #1. 400+ yards apiece in his first two career games plus 5 TDs is pretty much as good as it will ever get for a rookie QB....against two likely playoff teams no less.

gsorace
09-22-2011, 11:37 AM
PFF is such a joke. If instead of looking at a bunch of meaningless stats you actually WATCHED games you would know Cam Newton was the most impressive rookie through the first two weeks.

Splat
09-22-2011, 11:41 AM
CAMZ NEWTONZZ OMGZZZ!!!

But seriously I would have him #1.

FUNBUNCHER
09-22-2011, 11:56 AM
Nate Solder STARTING for the Pats should be on that list somewhere.

I really thought he was a year away. He has Joe Thomas tools, possibly even better. But during predraft IMO he looked like a prospect who really didn't have a good feel for playing OT.

For Bilichick to snag both Solder and Mallett, two top 15 talents IMO, is a killer draft.

Pat Sims 90
09-22-2011, 12:28 PM
Andy Dalton should be on the list somewhere.

JBCX
09-22-2011, 01:02 PM
I question footballfocus's scouting abilities.

I've seen their breakdowns of some players in some games, and when I go back and watch the DVR I come away with a very different analysis then they do at times.

My recent example I guess would be Linval Joseph. Joseph flashed tons of potential last year and pushed the pocket every time he came in the lineup. According to them, he was mediocre. But I graded him out very high based on his snaps.

The Giants clearly felt the same way, letting Coffield walk and starting Joseph this year. And our dline has improved bc of it, and I'd safely say that Joseph has already outperformed Coffield in the same role.

So I don't really see what they see.

Yeah, because the Giants fan who wants his team to succeed is clearly less biased than a football website providing for-pay objective analysis of all 32 teams.

smh.

bigbluedefense
09-22-2011, 01:49 PM
Yeah, because the Giants fan who wants his team to succeed is clearly less biased than a football website providing for-pay objective analysis of all 32 teams.

smh.

Says the man who has the Redskins going to the Super Bowl.

ShutDwn
09-22-2011, 01:52 PM
They're trying to hard to create controversy.

I wish the Panthers had Denarius Moore, he lived up to the hype in his first game. He's only going to get better too, what a steal.

CashmoneyDrew
09-22-2011, 02:03 PM
They're trying to hard to create controversy.

I wish the Panthers had Denarius Moore, he lived up to the hype in his first game. He's only going to get better too, what a steal.

He played week 1. Campbell was just too scared to ever throw to him for some reason.

JBCX
09-22-2011, 02:03 PM
Says the man who has the Redskins going to the Super Bowl.

That has nothing to do with anyone disputing the veracity of a professional football analysis website, which is what you did.

bigbluedefense
09-22-2011, 02:06 PM
That has nothing to do with anyone disputing the veracity of a professional football analysis website, which is what you did.

I feel bad for you if you're actually dumb enough to pay for that website.

Hurricanes25
09-22-2011, 02:06 PM
PFF is just horrible.

With that being said, Von Miller has looked very good but Cam Newton should be #1.

bucfan12
09-22-2011, 02:20 PM
Cam should be number 1, no doubt. He's excelled in his first 2 games as a pro QB.

Kerrigan is a beast. Should be higher than Von Miller, in my opinion.

Why is JJ Watt on the list? The only explanation for him is "didn't have a good game at all vs Miami, but he blocked a FG? " Come on man.

Borat
09-22-2011, 03:28 PM
I feel bad for you if you're actually dumb enough to pay for that website.

Wait, that's a pay site? LMFAO. People will buy anything.

Punisher
09-22-2011, 03:54 PM
If it means anything, Von Miller is already the Broncos best linebacker. :/

Raiderz4Life
09-22-2011, 03:56 PM
Wait, that's a pay site? LMFAO. People will buy anything.

I just took a look...they'll give you 2008s info for free..gotta pay to see everything else lmao

lowlife
09-22-2011, 04:38 PM
PFF is such a joke. If instead of looking at a bunch of meaningless stats you actually WATCHED games you would know Cam Newton was the most impressive rookie through the first two weeks.

You're confusing them with Football Outsiders who make crazy matrixes based purely on numbers.
I like PFF simply for the fact they watch every player, on every snap, in every game... rather than making general ******** statements based on media type's opinions and baseless observations. You know, like most message board goers.

lowlife
09-22-2011, 04:46 PM
Putting Miller ahead of Newton is probably a publicity stunt.

But theoretically, would you put your #2 overall ranked player at 3-4 OLB (lolwut) who happens to be a rookie or a rookie QB nobody would think about putting in their Top 10 as #1?

RaiderNation
09-22-2011, 04:55 PM
He played week 1. Campbell was just too scared to ever throw to him for some reason.

He did play but not on many snaps if I remember right. After last weeks game he should see the field a lot more. With him and Ford on the field together, it should be interesting to see how we can get them both the ball.

Also rookie Taiwan Jones is going to return kickoffs this week against the Jets, I have he feeling we will see something exciting from him

Mr. Goosemahn
09-22-2011, 05:17 PM
Yeah, I stopped caring for what Pro Football Focus had to say a while ago.

I get the fact that their info is based purely on stats, but still, stats don't show much.

One argument was level of competition, as I felt that could skew stats a lot. For example, when evaluating offensive linemen. Taking an OT for one team and evaluating him based on how many yards they got behind him is useless, because there are just too many variables that go into how well the RB actually runs. For starters, the skill of the RB is important. A guy like Adrian Peterson will make his guys look better than others. Secondly, guys like Jeff Backus, who plays against freaking Jared Allen AND Julius Peppers for a quarter of his season will undoubtedly grade out worse than a guy like Joe Staley, who goes against...Joey Porter? Whoever the Seahawks DE is? James Hall?

Dunno, I just felt there was a lot of actual football missing from their info.

There are lies, there are outrageous lies, and there are statistics.

Babylon
09-22-2011, 05:22 PM
Nate Solder STARTING for the Pats should be on that list somewhere.

I really thought he was a year away. He has Joe Thomas tools, possibly even better. But during predraft IMO he looked like a prospect who really didn't have a good feel for playing OT.

For Bilichick to snag both Solder and Mallett, two top 15 talents IMO, is a killer draft.

I didnt notice Solder starting against the Chargers but i think they used him in tight formations. I'm actually a little surprised he has looked as good as he has so early but wouldnt put him in Joe Thomas's class just yet.

ElectricEye
09-22-2011, 05:32 PM
I like Pro Football Focus. They bring a fresh, cohesive focus to scouting players that goes beyond the box score. I'm really surprised people are reacting as such. It's not the end all be all and I really don't think they're claiming to be either.

A "grade for every snap" system really does have it's value. They're going to have their own opinions and still be restricted by the same things we are(Broadcast, not coaches tape), but so much of what we talk about is still dictated by the box score...which can be more than a little deceiving at times. Nothing wrong with bringing something else to the discussion and trying to bring some more accountability to players beyond standard metrics.

JBCX
09-22-2011, 06:23 PM
Yeah, I stopped caring for what Pro Football Focus had to say a while ago.

I get the fact that their info is based purely on stats, but still, stats don't show much.

One argument was level of competition, as I felt that could skew stats a lot. For example, when evaluating offensive linemen. Taking an OT for one team and evaluating him based on how many yards they got behind him is useless, because there are just too many variables that go into how well the RB actually runs. For starters, the skill of the RB is important. A guy like Adrian Peterson will make his guys look better than others. Secondly, guys like Jeff Backus, who plays against freaking Jared Allen AND Julius Peppers for a quarter of his season will undoubtedly grade out worse than a guy like Joe Staley, who goes against...Joey Porter? Whoever the Seahawks DE is? James Hall?

Dunno, I just felt there was a lot of actual football missing from their info.

There are lies, there are outrageous lies, and there are statistics.

You're misinformed regarding PFF. The site actually *isn't* based on stats. It's based on grading players on a per-play basis via game tape. They have game reviewers watch every snap and grade players based on how effectively they carried out their duties on that particular snap.

A Perfect Score
09-22-2011, 06:25 PM
You're misinformed regarding PFF. The site actually *isn't* based on stats. It's based on grading players on a per-play basis via game tape. They have game reviewers watch every snap and grade players based on how effectively they carried out their duties on that particular snap.

Regardless of their methods, the product they produce is generally regarded as ****. This article does nothing to dissuade anyone of that opinion.

yo123
09-22-2011, 06:28 PM
PFF is a joke and always has been. Football can't be measured solely by stats. This isn't baseball, there are too many other factors.

JBCX
09-22-2011, 06:29 PM
PFF is a joke and always has been. Football can't be measured solely by stats. This isn't baseball, there are too many other factors.

IT'S NOT STATS.

They watch every game with their eyeballs and grade players based on the plays they made or didn't make. It's purely subjective on a per-play basis, but they focus on every individual player in their grading process so it's more comprehensive than you think.

yo123
09-22-2011, 06:31 PM
IT'S NOT STATS.

They watch every game with their eyeballs and grade players based on the plays they made or didn't make. It's purely subjective on a per-play basis, but they focus on every individual player in their grading process so it's more comprehensive than you think.


A lot of what they do is stats. And given the garbage rankings they put out all the time they are terrible scouts. I think they had Ray Edwards as a top 10 DE last year. Do I really need to argue that is ridiculous?

JBCX
09-22-2011, 06:36 PM
A lot of what they do is stats. And given the garbage rankings they put out all the time they are terrible scouts. I think they had Ray Edwards as a top 10 DE last year. Do I really need to argue that is ridiculous?

Nothing they do is stats. Jeez, if you're going to criticize a site, at least learn what it is they do?

It's ALL purely subjective game-tape grading of players in the NFL on a per-play basis. ALL of it.

They assign a number to each play based on how well the player executed it - negative through positive, depending on whether he underperformed, adequately performed, or overperformed. Then they aggregrate these per-snap grades into a sum total for that player in that one game. Each per-game grade is then aggregated into a season total grade for each player.

yo123
09-22-2011, 06:38 PM
Nothing they do is stats. Jeez, if you're going to criticize a site, at least learn what it is they do?

It's ALL purely subjective game-tape grading of players in the NFL on a per-play basis. ALL of it.


I'm literally staring at a link right now that says premium stats. Do you even know what you're paying for?

JBCX
09-22-2011, 06:40 PM
I'm literally staring at a link right now that says premium stats. Do you even know what you're paying for?

They may use the term "stats" but it is solely in reference to the grades they give out to players.

Raiderz4Life
09-22-2011, 06:46 PM
IDC what you wanna call their content. The majority of the time...it sucks.

BigBanger
09-22-2011, 07:11 PM
I just want to throw out Muhammad Wilkerson's name. He's been getting double and triple teamed at times and holding the point of attack. He's been an anchor for that line. Really good player and a ton of upside. He'd probably make my Top 10 rookies if I were ever dumb enough to rank rookies after two weeks.

Cam Newton, as much as I loath him, not #1? Well, that's a joke. I don't care if Cam "has made mistakes" and Miller hasn't. Cam has made Carolina competitive. Miller's impact on the team? lol. They'd probably be 1-1 without him. Without Cam in Carolina ... everyone forgets they even have a franchise. It's the cold truth.

ATLDirtyBirds
09-22-2011, 08:02 PM
I like Pro Football Focus. They bring a fresh, cohesive focus to scouting players that goes beyond the box score. I'm really surprised people are reacting as such. It's not the end all be all and I really don't think they're claiming to be either.




Ding, ding, ding. It's a fine tool to use. The problem comes when people cite it like it's ******* gospel.

TitanHope
09-22-2011, 08:10 PM
There have been A LOT of good rookies this year. So awesome.

Glad Klug and Ayers got a shoutout at the end. Klug needs to be the #3 DT behind Shaun Smith and fellow rookie Jurrell Casey. The guy just has a nonstop motor and uses great leverage. Ayers gets subbed in favor of Gerald McRath on 3rd down, but hopefully he gets more opportunities to blitz in those situations as the season goes forward. He was #6 on the list for WK 1. :)