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onejayhawk
09-23-2011, 06:28 PM
I am gong to the game tomorrow. In addition to the obvious, is ther anything I should watch? He will probably not be under much pressure, since they are playing Engineering Geek U (Rice).

J

onejayhawk
09-25-2011, 07:47 AM
Impressive. You would have to be with more TD passes than incompletions. That is for the season BTW.

The dude has RB in his soul. During the 2 minute drill, at the end of the first half, he pulled one down and ran for daylight. 35 yards, Two nice cuts and some broken tackles later, he was inside the the 5. Rather than play it safe, he went airborn, got hit from two directions, and coughed up the ball. Had they scored it would have been 42-17 at half.

As expected, RG III stayed in the pocket most of his time (he came out with 5 minutes left in the 3rd Quarter). He did some things very well. Kendal Wright set the school TD mark on a sweet sideline route, in the red zone. The catch was pretty, but the throw could not have been better. Ganaway got his first career TD on a little delayed flair, probably the third or fourth guy on the tree. Ganaway is your basic moose RB. He stayed in to block, then released in the flat.

Probably the most impressive play was the 4th TD pass of the first quarter. With the ball at the Rice 29, RG III got moved out of the pocket. He had room to run, but kept his head up and found a receiver (Lanear Sampson) single covered in the end zone. As against TCU, he visibly controlled the urge to run. On that play it paid gold.

Rice was not a good test. Baylor got up 28 points, then gave a bunch back. The team does not know how to play with a lead. It was nowhere near as close as the 56-35 final score. That being said, Rice does have a good QB. At the level they play, they should do decently.

I also have to second what Scott said concerning Kendall Wright. This guy is an NFL WR. His stats look much better when you consider that three of his receptions were in the flat, for little or no yardage. Baylor threw in the flat a LOT. Essentially their WR are part of the running game.

J

SeanTaylorRIP
09-25-2011, 10:26 AM
For me the most impressive thing about RGIII is even when he's throwing on the run he always sets his feet beautifully and squares his shoulders before making a throw, he doesn't simply rely on arm strength. I think you can tighten his mechanics a bit but give his athleticism and continually improving mechanics and understanding of the game he has first round pick written all over him. He plays the way most thought Jake Locker should have in college.

TheFinisher
09-25-2011, 11:42 AM
Best QB not named Luck and future top 10 pick.

How's that for a bold statement?

onejayhawk
09-26-2011, 06:57 AM
For me the most impressive thing about RGIII is even when he's throwing on the run he always sets his feet beautifully and squares his shoulders before making a throw, he doesn't simply rely on arm strength. I think you can tighten his mechanics a bit but give his athleticism and continually improving mechanics and understanding of the game he has first round pick written all over him. He plays the way most thought Jake Locker should have in college.

Agree on the throwing on the run. The one I mentioned, he did a little skip to reset his feet before throwing.

Who do you think the best comparison is? None of the really mobile QBs in the NFL seem to fit.

FUNBUNCHER
09-26-2011, 07:09 AM
RObert Griffin doesn't have any easy comparisons. He's probably going to time 4.45 or faster at the combine, however he isn't a great broken field runner but he is very mobile.

Looks like he's a legit 6'2, 220#. His passing has improved dramatically the last two seasons and his arm strength is ideal.

Robert Griffin III is somewhere IMO between Vick and Rodgers as a prospect. Athletic skills very close to Vick, but his vision and passing ability are more refined.

With the success of Cam Newton, I think Robert Griffin's draft stock is going to sky rocket.
Now if Baylor can pull off an upset of one of the major Big 12 programs and make it to a bowl game, RGIII will potentially solidify himself as a top 10 prospect.


TCU was a nice win, but beating Rice and Stephen F. Austin doesn't impress.

Baylor is about to start their Big 12 schedule. All will be revealed beginning with a game next Saturday against a solid K-State team in Manhattan.

SolidGold
09-26-2011, 07:32 AM
RObert Griffin doesn't have any easy comparisons. He's probably going to time 4.45 or faster at the combine, however he isn't a great broken field runner but he is very mobile.

Looks like he's a legit 6'2, 220#. His passing has improved dramatically the last two seasons and his arm strength is ideal.

Robert Griffin III is somewhere IMO between Vick and Rodgers as a prospect. Athletic skills very close to Vick, but his vision and passing ability are more refined.

With the success of Cam Newton, I think Robert Griffin's draft stock is going to sky rocket.
Now if Baylor can pull off an upset of one of the major Big 12 programs and make it to a bowl game, RGIII will potentially solidify himself as a top 10 prospect.


TCU was a nice win, but beating Rice and Stephen F. Austin doesn't impress.

Baylor is about to start their Big 12 schedule. All will be revealed beginning with a game next Saturday against a solid K-State team in Manhattan.

What would Newton's success have to do with Griffin? Just curious. I like the Aaron Rodgers comparison for Griffin.

FUNBUNCHER
09-26-2011, 07:50 AM
What would Newton's success have to do with Griffin? Just curious.

Athletic spread QBs, very superficial similarities. Mobile, good arms and decent mechanics, both from similar college systems but whom scouts might perceive as raw pro prospects.

The one knock on Cam was his lack of big time starting experience. Griffin will be a 4 year starter with a ton of snaps at QB.
Whenever an athletic spread QB shows well in the pros, IMO it helps the next guy who comes into the league after him.

WCH
09-26-2011, 08:48 AM
I like the Aaron Rodgers comparison for Griffin.

I do too. I've seen every pass AR has thrown in the NFL, and Griffin is the same type of passer. He also has very similar mobility. His mechanics could stand some work, but he has other skills that I don't think you can teach. He's my clear-cut #2 QB prospect at this point.

If I were an owner in position to draft him, I'd take him and sit him behind a seasoned veteran QB like McNabb or Peyton for a couple of years and then give him his chance -- just like GB did with Rodgers.

BuddyCHRIST
09-26-2011, 09:13 AM
Your insane if you'd let anyone sit behind McNabb, dunno if anyone's gone to horrible so quickly. Wrong board but needed to be said.l

WCH
09-26-2011, 09:20 AM
Your insane if you'd let anyone sit behind McNabb, dunno if anyone's gone to horrible so quickly. Wrong board but needed to be said.l

Yeah, I agree. Dude fell off a cliff last season, and doesn't look much better now. I do think that he's clever enough to help a teach a younger guy a few tricks, though -- even if he can't get it done himself, anymore.

I may be in the minority, but I think that young QBs really benefit from sitting on the bench for a year or two.

SolidGold
09-26-2011, 09:24 AM
I think Jones and Barkley are both better pro prospects. Griffin would probably be wise to see who stays and who declares this year. Next year's QB class (2013) is not very strong.

FUNBUNCHER
09-26-2011, 10:26 AM
I think Jones and Barkley are both better pro prospects. Griffin would probably be wise to see who stays and who declares this year. Next year's QB class (2013) is not very strong.

Did RGIII RS at some point at Baylor??? This is his 4th year.

SolidGold
09-26-2011, 10:45 AM
He is listed as a Junior on the Baylor website.

ElectricEye
09-26-2011, 10:49 AM
I'm a very big fan of Griffin as well and have been vocal about it in the past. He has all the tools to be a very good player in the NFL even taking his legs out of the equation. On top of that, he has the right mentality as a passer and is a great kid with phenomenal intangibles.

crisco0710
09-26-2011, 11:48 AM
I always liked Griffin in high school but once I read this I really had a better appreciation for his work ethic.

http://www.statesman.com/sports/content/sports/stories/longhorns/11/05/1105texfoot.html

Every night around 7 p.m., the red hazard lights on the sport-utility vehicle blinked along FM 116, a rural road in Copperas Cove, as cars passed by with caution.
About 100 meters in front of the car was a kid, running on the shoulder of the road as hard and as fast as possible.
The hill at that stretch of the road was about 800 meters long and perfect for training.
And that's where, after football practice, after a long day of school, studying and hard work, Robert Griffin went the extra mile.
It was dark and dangerous and difficult.
Griffin, the freshman quarterback of the Baylor Bears, enjoyed every minute.
"That's what I always remember about Robert," Copperas Cove coach Jack Welch said. "After practice, when everybody else was home eating dinner and showering, he would be running up and down that hill with his parents in the car behind him. He was still training. He always outworked everybody."
Griffin — a former high school star who led the Bulldawgs to back-to-back Class 4A runner-up finishes — is now leading Baylor , in his first year on campus. He enters Saturday's game against No. 5 Texas as the top freshman quarterback in the country.

FUNBUNCHER
09-26-2011, 11:57 AM
^^^This.

That's the kind of mental focus it takes to be successful in the NFL for a QB.

Caulibflower
09-26-2011, 12:37 PM
I would be OK with the Seahawks drafting Griffin if they don't get Luck. I'd rather Griffin than Barkley.

ATLDirtyBirds
09-26-2011, 12:45 PM
I'm a very big fan of Griffin as well and have been vocal about it in the past. He has all the tools to be a very good player in the NFL even taking his legs out of the equation. On top of that, he has the right mentality as a passer and is a great kid with phenomenal intangibles.



All of this applies to me as well.

stephenson86
09-26-2011, 01:58 PM
He got hurt and red-shirted one year, can't remember which it was. Kid has always been a baller from the first snap at Baylor.

onejayhawk
09-26-2011, 07:37 PM
He got hurt and red-shirted one year, can't remember which it was. Kid has always been a baller from the first snap at Baylor.
He lost his second year to injury. IIRC he laready has his degree.

J

Hurricanes25
09-26-2011, 07:41 PM
I love RG3. He's a QB who could also run, not a runner who thinks he can pass.

ElectricEye
09-26-2011, 07:41 PM
He lost his second year to injury. IIRC he laready has his degree.

J

Which he got a year early anyway. Just more evidence to how impressive a kid he is.

shylo3716
09-26-2011, 07:48 PM
Soooooooo is he gone or not after this season?

Caulibflower
09-26-2011, 09:16 PM
If he already has his degree and will be a first-round pick, yes. Count on it.

WCH
09-27-2011, 01:09 PM
He's on track to earn his Masters this spring, and has said that if he comes back for his last year of eligibility, he's going to enroll in law school.

Impressive kid, for sure.

D-Unit
09-27-2011, 03:53 PM
You guys will hate him once the Cowboys draft him.


Just sayin'.

descendency
09-27-2011, 04:09 PM
I don't see the first round hype with him. His athleticism is over-rated (he's a long strider) and his accuracy is hit or miss.

edit: While he may not be that "typical athletic QB", he struggles from the same things they do. Poor mechanics and Poor accuracy.

ElectricEye
09-27-2011, 05:07 PM
I don't see the first round hype with him. His athleticism is over-rated (he's a long strider) and his accuracy is hit or miss.

edit: While he may not be that "typical athletic QB", he struggles from the same things they do. Poor mechanics and Poor accuracy.

I'm not sure you can overrate his athletic ability. He's an Olympic caliber athlete, long strider or not.

He's also completing 85% of his passes right now. Gimmick offense, level of competition...sure. But that's impressive no matter which way you slice it. It's not like it's all easy throws. I've seen him complete back shoulder lasers, position balls in the right place on the sideline, and just rape on the deep ball.

I just don't see mechanical and accuracy issues like some do. Even still, those things don't keep you out of the first round anymore. See Blaine Gabbert. He's got ridiculous upside and top notch intangibles on top of it. That's generally a winning combination, even with some rawness. He's nowhere near as raw as some people think though.

FUNBUNCHER
09-27-2011, 05:26 PM
IMO if you liked Newton/Locker/Gabbert, I don't see why an NFL team wouldn't head over heels for the chance to draft Griffin.

I'm at the point if a guy looks like he can pass in college and appears to have good arm strength, I'm assuming his throwing skillset translates to the NFL.

I see plenty of velocity and accuracy when RGIII throws the football. His intangibles are pure Eagle Scout and I love his deep ball accuracy.

onejayhawk
09-27-2011, 06:08 PM
IMO if you liked Newton/Locker/Gabbert, I don't see why an NFL team wouldn't head over heels for the chance to draft Griffin.

I'm at the point if a guy looks like he can pass in college and appears to have good arm strength, I'm assuming his throwing skillset translates to the NFL.

I see plenty of velocity and accuracy when RGIII throws the football. His intangibles are pure Eagle Scout and I love his deep ball accuracy.

I do NOT love the deep ball accuracy. I love the WRs adjusting to them. He consistently overthrows or underthrows his receivers, and they make the catch anyway. There is a reason Kendall Wright is on Scott's HOT list.

J

FUNBUNCHER
09-27-2011, 09:07 PM
How can you tell RGIII is overthrowing WRs if they make the catch in stride??lol

DraftSavant
09-28-2011, 02:29 PM
IMO if you liked Newton/Locker/Gabbert, I don't see why an NFL team wouldn't head over heels for the chance to draft Griffin.

I'm at the point if a guy looks like he can pass in college and appears to have good arm strength, I'm assuming his throwing skillset translates to the NFL.

I see plenty of velocity and accuracy when RGIII throws the football. His intangibles are pure Eagle Scout and I love his deep ball accuracy.

It's getting to that point, it would seem.

Again, it's easier than ever before to be an NFL QB. You have to be really, really crappy to not be an effective NFL QB anymore.

Anyways, if RGIII keeps this up, he'll end up being the #2 QB on a lot of team's boards. Whether he's drafted there depends on a number of unforseeable variables.

Scott Wright
09-28-2011, 06:14 PM
We talked about Griffin for about ten minutes on the most recent podcast:

***

Draft Countdown Podcast - September 27, 2011
http://www.blogtalkradio.com/draftcountdown/2011/09/28/draft-countdown


***

onejayhawk
10-01-2011, 10:46 PM
He now has more incompletions than TD. The fact that we can first say that in October is telling. K-State had a great game plan to take Baylor down, and it worked, finally.

J

BuddyCHRIST
10-01-2011, 10:52 PM
He now has more incompletions than TD. The fact that we can first say that in October is telling. K-State had a great game plan to take Baylor down, and it worked, finally.

J

did they even? He still had a great game, his one interception was because he got crushed.

And I understand how fast he is, but his speed hasn't really wowed me on the football field. Not like Vick who looked the fastest player on the field, which Griffin apparently is.

Now he's obviously a great player, I just was expecting a more dynamic runner for how fast he is.

SolidGold
10-01-2011, 11:03 PM
Griffin has more straight line speed, he isn't as agile as Vick.

Punisher
10-01-2011, 11:19 PM
Vick has better straight line speed football wise than RG3.(Well old Vick)

FUNBUNCHER
10-01-2011, 11:39 PM
I like that RGIII's running ability doesn't overshadow his entire game. He has mobility and speed but he's not a gifted runner.

If only Baylor had a defense. I'd like to see Griffin in a bowl game, besides the Senior Bowl.

SolidGold
10-01-2011, 11:51 PM
That WR for Baylor Kendall Wright seems be getting overshadowed...he is legit. I like him a lot.

If Baylor played a more ball control type offense I think there defense would be better but they seem to be a quick strike offense which leads to that defense being gassed.

BeerBaron
10-01-2011, 11:56 PM
I like that RGIII's running ability doesn't overshadow his entire game. He has mobility and speed but he's not a gifted runner.

If only Baylor had a defense. I'd like to see Griffin in a bowl game, besides the Senior Bowl.

No one in the Big...the conference in the middle of the country...plays defense. So they fit right in.

RaiderNation
10-02-2011, 12:20 AM
I have him ranked 4th behind Landry Jones as the best QB's for the draft. He has improved his stock a lot, but we will see if he can keep up this type of production. Right now I'd probably have him as a 2nd rounder, maybe sneeking in as a late 1st.

SickwithIt1010
10-02-2011, 01:45 AM
I wouldnt mind seeing the Eagles draft him and having Reid groom him the next couple seasons behind Vick.

ElectricEye
10-02-2011, 09:58 AM
I have him ranked 4th behind Landry Jones as the best QB's for the draft. He has improved his stock a lot, but we will see if he can keep up this type of production. Right now I'd probably have him as a 2nd rounder, maybe sneeking in as a late 1st.

I don't think it's fair to ask him to maintain this level of production. If he does...great. But it's sort of an impossible standard to live up to throughout the season. He'll probably go through a stretch where he's as productive as he was last year, which was VERY productive....just not ungodly productive.

stephenson86
10-02-2011, 11:28 AM
His running is like VY, not particularly agile but great in a straight line and has some wiggle.

stephenson86
10-02-2011, 11:35 AM
Oh yea, he has a 150.8 NFL QB rating...not bad lol. Utterly useless stat but still quite impressive.

WCH
10-02-2011, 01:15 PM
I don't think it's fair to ask him to maintain this level of production. If he does...great. But it's sort of an impossible standard to live up to throughout the season. He'll probably go through a stretch where he's as productive as he was last year, which was VERY productive....just not ungodly productive.

Hell no; people are on crack. If he maintains this level of production, he overtakes Luck as the #1 pick in the draft. 80% completion rate = #1 pick.

Fortunate for Luck, he almost certainly won't maintain this level of production.

SolidGold
10-02-2011, 01:38 PM
Hell no; people are on crack. If he maintains this level of production, he overtakes Luck as the #1 pick in the draft. 80% completion rate = #1 pick.

Fortunate for Luck, he almost certainly won't maintain this level of production.

Even if he did keep up his production there is no way he would overtake Luck as the number 1 pick.

ChiefMojo
10-02-2011, 04:31 PM
If the Chiefs happen to win enough games to be out of the Andrew Luck prize, then I want RGIII over Jones and Barkley.

I think RGIII is going to be special in the NFL!

vidae
10-02-2011, 07:09 PM
I think he will too and I'm a huge RG3 fan. Good deep ball, smart, good awareness.. I think he could be a player in this league.

HoopsDemon12
10-02-2011, 07:14 PM
Hell no; people are on crack. If he maintains this level of production, he overtakes Luck as the #1 pick in the draft. 80% completion rate = #1 pick.

Fortunate for Luck, he almost certainly won't maintain this level of production.

Even if he did keep up his production there is no way he would overtake Luck as the number 1 pick.

I have to agree with this, best he can hope for is being QB #2. Luck is to refined as a prospect to be overtaken. In a most other drafts classes he would be number one with his production.

D-Unit
10-02-2011, 07:19 PM
If the Chiefs happen to win enough games to be out of the Andrew Luck prize, then I want RGIII over Jones and Barkley.

I think RGIII is going to be special in the NFL!
I'd still take Barkley, but yes over Jones.

onejayhawk
10-02-2011, 09:34 PM
I dont understand the fascination with Barkley. Top 5, no problem, but not a clear cut #2.

J

SolidGold
10-02-2011, 09:39 PM
I dont understand the fascination with Barkley. Top 5, no problem, but not a clear cut #2.

J

Pro-style offense, has improved every year, accurate, good arm/can make every throw. I am more sold on Barkley as an NFL QB than Griffin.

Brent
10-02-2011, 09:58 PM
No one in the Big...the conference in the middle of the country...plays defense. So they fit right in.
mid-america conference?

Scott Wright
10-03-2011, 04:49 AM
I posted a lengthy blog entry on RG3:


***

Lonestar
http://draftcountdown.com/blog/NFL-Draft-Blog.php#oct3

***

ElectricEye
10-03-2011, 11:29 AM
Nice writeup Scott. I really think this is one of those situations where Griffin could SHOOT up boards very quickly as people start to go back and compare him to the other guys in the class that are perceived to be ahead of him, sans Luck. I could see him coming back to school as well to start law school possibly as well though.

FUNBUNCHER
10-03-2011, 05:19 PM
I think there's little chance he goes back to school because Baylor has a bad football team.

I don't really like the McNabb comparison as pro prospects particularly because D Mac was a gifted scrambler who could shake and bake with the football, but he was nowhere near where Griffin is as a passer coming out of Syracuse.

I think Griffin's game is closer to Steve Young/Rodgers than McNabb.

The only prospects I can see likely going ahead of RGIII are Luck/Barkley. After that everything is up in the air.

nepg
10-03-2011, 05:53 PM
I think there's little chance he goes back to school because Baylor has a bad football team.

I don't really like the McNabb comparison as pro prospects particularly because D Mac was a gifted scrambler who could shake and bake with the football, but he was nowhere near where Griffin is as a passer coming out of Syracuse.

I think Griffin's game is closer to Steve Young/Rodgers than McNabb.

The only prospects I can see likely going ahead of RGIII are Luck/Barkley. After that everything is up in the air.
What? McNabb was a passer who had the ability to scramble. Part of what made McNabb so great was his understanding of the most complicated offense in college football. The Syracuse playbook was thicker than the Eagles', if I recall correctly. The Eagles drafted Kevin Kolb for the same qualities.

I think McNabb is a great comparison. McNabb didn't have the gaudy passing numbers Griffin will have, but they're extremely similar players. Steve Young works well because his stats are more in-line with what Griffin is doing, but all three are very similar players.

FUNBUNCHER
10-03-2011, 06:47 PM
Just from a passing standpoint, IMO RGIII is more advanced coming out of college than McNabb was when he left Syracuse, and I don't think Griffin is going to come close to McNabb's rushing totals at Syracuse.

It's not a crazy comparison, but there are ones I like better.

I'll be honest, McNabb stinking it up in the twilight of his career makes me biased against Griffin being compared to D Mac.

ElectricEye
10-03-2011, 07:01 PM
The only thing that bothers me about that comparison is that McNabb was built like bowling ball coming out. Griffin is a lot leaner. Different set of advantages and disadvantages to that. RGIII is just a lot more fluid than McNabb ever was.

Griffin is also coming out of a system that passed the ball a whole ton more. Griffin is on track to attempt more passes in two years than McNabb did in his entire tenure at Cuse. The comparison of being two good pocket passers disguised as good athletes coming from a fledgling football programs is good though.

But yeah, comps, ect. Doesn't REALLY matter that much.

WCH
10-04-2011, 04:31 AM
Even if he did keep up his production there is no way he would overtake Luck as the number 1 pick.

The point was that he won't keep up this level of production, because this level of production (84% completions or whatever, more TDs than incompletes going into last week) is an aberration. It would be absolutely without precedent if he did that for an entire season. There's approximately a zero percent chance that he can "keep up" his production.

I certainly don't think he's anywhere near Luck as an NFL-ready QB, I think he's the best QB prospect in a while. I'm firmly in the camp that says "if you're picking #1, take him." Even the Rams, if they suck enough to get the #1 pick, should take him in my opinion. But if RGIII completes 84-freaking-percent of his passes this season, then he's probably going #1. And if a frog had wings, it wouldn't bump it's ass when it hops.

When he cools off a bit, people shouldn't necessarily knock him for simply not being able to "keep up" his production, just like people shouldn't necessarily knock Tom Brady for throwing more INT's this season than he did last season. It's called "regression to the mean."

RaiderNation
10-04-2011, 05:13 PM
Looking at the teams with QB needs, I think a team like Seattle would take a chance in the top 10 of Griffin if they can't get Barkley. Carrol wants an athletic QB and Griffin is as good of an athlete as Tavaris Jackson.

vidae
10-04-2011, 05:23 PM
If we have the opportunity to take RG3 and we pass on him I'll be more than a little miffed. He's going to need some coaching but I have a bigger mancrush on him than I did on Rolando McClain. :o

D-Unit
10-04-2011, 06:14 PM
If we have the opportunity to take RG3 and we pass on him I'll be more than a little miffed. He's going to need some coaching but I have a bigger mancrush on him than I did on Rolando McClain. :o
Makes me wonder who's worse... Cassell or Romo? lol

vidae
10-04-2011, 06:35 PM
Makes me wonder who's worse... Cassell or Romo? lol

Cassel and it isn't close. At least Romo can go through progressions.

TheFinisher
10-06-2011, 12:11 PM
mhyqhn1LJps

keylime_5
10-06-2011, 12:53 PM
the way i figure it, if Locker, Gabbert, and Ponder can go top 12 then Griffin can too. Locker had a lousy senior year and still went 8th, Gabbert had a decent but not outstanding junior year and went 10th, Ponder doesn't have the physical tools of those guys and was not durable at all in college and went 12th. Griffin has great tools and upside and is having a ridiculous junior year. it's been proven that teams who need QBs won't pass up on top QB prospects in recent years.

TACKLE
10-10-2011, 07:21 PM
Other than a couple tenths in the forty, can someone tell me what separates RG3 from Colt McCoy as a prospect?

Shane P. Hallam
10-10-2011, 07:27 PM
Other than a couple tenths in the forty, can someone tell me what separates RG3 from Colt McCoy as a prospect?

The velocity of his ball much better than McCoy's was for me. He can really whip it to the sideline, something Colt didn't do. Also, footwork wise, we get to see it with RG, didn't with Colt as much. My notes on Griffin just have him pop a lot more than McCoy did.

TACKLE
10-10-2011, 07:34 PM
The velocity of his ball much better than McCoy's was for me. He can really whip it to the sideline, something Colt didn't do. Also, footwork wise, we get to see it with RG, didn't with Colt as much. My notes on Griffin just have him pop a lot more than McCoy did.

This is main thing I'm really not sold on. I'm not saying it's untrue but I just haven't seen enough flashes that give me confidence in his ability to make stick throws. Again not saying he can't make those throws, he just has a lot to prove to me in that regard.

onejayhawk
10-11-2011, 11:27 AM
This is main thing I'm really not sold on. I'm not saying it's untrue but I just haven't seen enough flashes that give me confidence in his ability to make stick throws. Again not saying he can't make those throws, he just has a lot to prove to me in that regard.

This has more to do with McCoy's lack of velocity. CMcC may be called "the next Drew Brees", partly because of the lack of arm. RG III does not have a big gun. That is a long way from saying his arm is marginal.

I agree with you on the short and middle routes. RG III is still learning to lead receivers, and to fire it through an opening. However, those are learned skills, and he has shown he can learn quickly.

J

SolidGold
10-11-2011, 11:29 AM
Kendall Wright is responsible for like 45% of Griffin's passing yardage this year...much of it YAC. I think he is really being overlooked as a prospect.

Shane P. Hallam
10-11-2011, 11:37 AM
This is main thing I'm really not sold on. I'm not saying it's untrue but I just haven't seen enough flashes that give me confidence in his ability to make stick throws. Again not saying he can't make those throws, he just has a lot to prove to me in that regard.

Is it elite? No. As I say, QB is the position with most question marks going into the NFL. There is a lot we don't know about QBs and how they will translate and this goes for Griffin as well. That being said, I've seen improvement from him with the arm strength factor. Is his ball always the most catchable? No, but I do feel it looks better than McCoy's did coming out (and McCoy, though still not very good, has improved in the NFL).

Griffin also throws a nice ball, most of the time. Once again, still development, but shows improvement. He puts a nice spiral on it and seems to have the strength to accomplish this on a consistent basis.

He's not a slam dunk prospect, could bust out perhaps, but the improvement doesn't lie. I'd feel pretty confident with him as a late 1st rounder or early 2nd rounder if he falls there. Still need to see the official height number though.

WCH
10-11-2011, 07:01 PM
the way i figure it, if Locker, Gabbert, and Ponder can go top 12 then Griffin can too. Locker had a lousy senior year and still went 8th, Gabbert had a decent but not outstanding junior year and went 10th, Ponder doesn't have the physical tools of those guys and was not durable at all in college and went 12th.

I like Griffin. Probably more than anybody other than his mother. All this shows, though, is that bad teams may be prone to making questionable draft picks.

bored of education
10-15-2011, 02:37 PM
I think rg3 should be drafted in the 2nd or 3rd as a qb and Tanehill looks like an NFL quarterberack much more so than RG3 and Tannehill has not played qb as long.

ElectricEye
10-15-2011, 02:57 PM
I thought he played pretty well today, but there was some uncharacteristic frustration from him in the second half and he really forced some throws. Baylor couldn't protect in the interior today and he was really forced to make quick decisions or scramble. He did some real nice things overall though, the placement on the deep ball to Terrence Williams was picture perfect.

onejayhawk
10-16-2011, 12:36 PM
I think rg3 should be drafted in the 2nd or 3rd as a qb and Tanehill looks like an NFL quarterberack much more so than RG3 and Tannehill has not played qb as long.

Were we watching the same game?

As EE said, RG III showed frustration, but had a fine stat game, despite no time and heavy coverage. Tannehill had a coke and two bites on a sandwich before he checked his receivers.

This game reminds me, in a small way, of the QB debate before the Stafford/Sanchez/Freeman draft. Luck is apart, above, and none of this. I think Tannehill is the Sanchez, RG III the Freeman, and Matt Barkley the Stafford. My point being, that you should not ignore the QB with the most weight to carry, just because he cannot win against much better manpower.

That being said, calling Tannehill a Sanchez is no insult. The body of work is small, but the results are there.

J

SolidGold
10-16-2011, 04:50 PM
I believe A&M is the worst passing defense in 1-A football. His throws down the field are impressive but there are a lot of screen passes in that offense too.

ElectricEye
10-16-2011, 04:52 PM
I believe A&M is the worst passing defense in 1-A football. His throws down the field are impressive but there are a lot of screen passes in that offense too.

There's a lot of screens in college football right now. You really can't hold that against a guy when he's demonstrated down field ability.

SolidGold
10-16-2011, 05:04 PM
There's a lot of screens in college football right now. You really can't hold that against a guy when he's demonstrated down field ability.

It does inflate the stats though. The previous poster brought up his stat line from the A&M game.

ElectricEye
10-16-2011, 05:17 PM
It does inflate the stats though. The previous poster brought up his stat line from the A&M game.

When you're completing passes close to an 80% clip and throwing the ball down the field regularly(10.71 YPA doesn't come from YAC from bubble screens), stat inflation only matters so much. Deflate his stats a notch or two and they're still damn impressive.

SolidGold
10-16-2011, 05:26 PM
Yea I'm not denying he isn't an impressive QB putting together a great season just want folks to take everything into account. I'm not a fanboy of his though and he would as a prospect he would be 5th behind Luck, Jones, Barkley and Tannehill.

It seems people get crucified for not just pandering to the Griffin hype.

OSUGiants17
10-17-2011, 05:55 PM
I could definitely see the Raiders trading up for him if they had the picks to do it. Perhaps a package of Bush, this years 1st and a future 2nd or 3rd could get them into the mid-teens to swap with a team like the Bengals.

onejayhawk
10-17-2011, 09:33 PM
I could definitely see the Raiders trading up for him if they had the picks to do it. Perhaps a package of Bush, this years 1st and a future 2nd or 3rd could get them into the mid-teens to swap with a team like the Bengals.

Without Campbell, they wont have to trade anything to get into the mid teens. RG III wont last that long. #12 on the outside.

J

FUNBUNCHER
11-06-2011, 01:29 AM
Is RGIII a lock for the top 10???
He's having an insane season for Baylor.

descendency
11-06-2011, 01:59 AM
I seriously doubt RGIII goes in round 1 and I doubt Tannehill goes in the first 3 rounds.

HorusKing
11-10-2011, 04:55 AM
This kid is smart and was a track athlete in high school this kid will blow up at the combine will be the future QB of the washington redskins and a top 10 pick.

onejayhawk
11-10-2011, 03:59 PM
Obviously stat leaders are only a small part of the QB picture, but they are never completely useless.

Updated: 11/6/2011 - 10:57 AM
RANK PLAYER SCHOOL GP ATT COMP PCT INT YARDS TD RAT
1. Russell Wilson Wisconsin 9 201 144 71.64 3 2238 21 196.66
2. Case Keenum Houston 9 347 257 74.06 3 3626 34 192.44
3. Robert Griffin III Baylor 8 273 202 73.99 4 2781 26 188.06
4. Kellen Moore Boise St. 8 259 192 74.13 5 2229 29 179.51
5. Andrew Luck Stanford 9 272 194 71.32 5 2424 26 174.05

I have to knock Wilson, because no one else has the Badger ground game. Keenum and Moore have a "system" tag to deal with, though Keenum is probably better than that.

Some others:

11. Brandon Weeden Oklahoma St. 9 391 282 72.12 9 3212 26 158.47
15. Landry Jones Oklahoma 9 393 254 64.63 9 3349 28 155.14
18. Matt Barkley Southern Californi a 9 342 229 66.96 6 2608 28 154.52
47. Ryan Tannehill Texas A&M 9 369 232 62.87 10 2701 20 136.82

J

DraftSavant
11-10-2011, 04:18 PM
Love his upside, worried about his tendency to drop his eyes to look at the rush. That facet of his game will need to be reprogrammed.

onejayhawk
11-12-2011, 10:00 PM
He led a gerat comeback today against my Jayhawks. Bittersweet. RG III went 22 of 29, 3 TD, 1 Int and had thre bad quarters.

J

FUNBUNCHER
11-12-2011, 10:18 PM
He led a gerat comeback today against my Jayhawks. Bittersweet. RG III went 22 of 29, 3 TD, 1 Int and had thre bad quarters.

J

Baylor had four fumbles in the first half. I was under the impression those weren't on Griffin. Didn't see the game, heard some on the radio.

THe Bears suck on defense so when a team like Kansas gets up on them, I can't say that RGIII had a bad game.

keylime_5
11-12-2011, 10:22 PM
I seriously doubt RGIII goes in round 1 and I doubt Tannehill goes in the first 3 rounds.

QB gurus will look at these guys and get a boner. Considering how athletic RGIII is and how good of an arm he has -especially downfield - I would be shocked if he doesn't go in round one. Same with Tannehill going in the first 3 rounds. At very worst that guy will be a round 3 developmental pick, probably more likely he goes somewhere in round one or two though.

ElectricEye
11-19-2011, 11:11 PM
Robert Griffin is god and anything else is just lies and blasphemy.


But seriously, impressive as hell tonight. The stat sheet and the highlights don't tell the whole story either. He hit Wright for a BOMB early in the game that called got called back. He also hit Williams and Reese for would be touchdowns in stride only to have them drop the ball....but just impressive, impressive stuff. Certainly has to be moving up some boards.

JBCX
11-19-2011, 11:18 PM
Top-15 lock? Alot of teams need quarterbacks this year.

Clarkw267
11-19-2011, 11:18 PM
Robert Griffin is god and anything else is just lies and blasphemy.


But seriously, impressive as hell tonight. The stat sheet and the highlights don't tell the whole story either. He hit Wright for a BOMB early in the game that called got called back. He also hit Williams and Reese for would be touchdowns in stride only to have them drop the ball....but just impressive, impressive stuff. Certainly has to be moving up some boards.

Griffin throws one hell of a deep ball.

The guy has all the potential in the world. People see him and immediately think he's a gimmick guy, or a scrambler. He doesn't want to run. He wants to throw the ball and he can do it very well.

Complex
11-19-2011, 11:24 PM
Top-15 lock? Alot of teams need quarterbacks this year.

He should be #1 but he isn't going to be at least I hope if the Colts are drafting.

4U2NV
11-20-2011, 12:18 AM
Griffin is unbelievable. Has amazing talent and is now a lock to go in the top 5. Tonight was his signature game. At this point, as a Dolphin fan, I want Griffin as the consolation prize for not getting Luck instead of Barkley. I think RG3 translates very well to the pros and he also seems like he's coachable and won't be a headcase.

jayceheathman
11-20-2011, 12:19 AM
I love RG3. I put $25 on him to win the Heisman at the beginning of the year at 20:1 odds.

FUNBUNCHER
11-20-2011, 01:02 AM
Just a flat out MONSTA!!! Griffin is a lock for the top 10, and may end up being the 2nd QB after Luck.
If Barkley comes out, there could be three QBs taken in the top 5.

Is there any question that RGIII has surpassed Landry Jones on many team's draft boards???

I think Griffin could be that bridge QB between Steve Young and Mike Vick, meaning he's a prospect with nearly Vick's athletic ability but who processes the game cerebrally like Steve Young.
RGIII's deep ball accuracy is just scary. That alone would have made him a first round pick.

RaiderNation
11-20-2011, 03:23 AM
RG3 is my #7 prospect in my up coming big board, and is still the 3rd QB behind Luck and Barkley. RG3 has great athleticism and has the arm and accuracy to be a NFL QB. He could potentially have a Cam Newton type impact for a team. Seattle, Cleveland and Washington are potential landing spots for RG3 in the top 10.

Mr.Regular
11-20-2011, 07:10 PM
I LOVE Griffin. Wouldn't want to bet against him succeeding.

One small issue I had yesterday was with a few of those deep balls. Some of them seemed a little wobbly, and he had to put a little too much air under them, if that makes sense. But the accuracy is still there, which is scary.

Of course that last deep ball was insane though. So much zip on that one. The most impressive part was how his eyes were downfield the whole time, he used his athleticism to maneuver around, and he intrinsically knew where the LOS was. He could've taken off there, but used his legs/eyes/arm strength to make the perfect play, that was jaw dropping.

And, for what it's worth, he seems to have that old cliche 'it' factor. Smart, a leader, likable etc. I can see him going top 5 for sure.

EvilNixon
11-20-2011, 07:16 PM
Man, he'd be so scary in Oakland with the speed we already have.

49erNation85
11-20-2011, 07:21 PM
Man, he'd be so scary in Oakland with the speed we already have.

To bad all your first and second round picks are gone.

vidae
11-20-2011, 07:35 PM
He WILL be scary in KC! :D

Jimmy
11-20-2011, 08:37 PM
He WILL be scary in KC! :D

Man, I can only imagine the showdowns he and this guy would have for years and years.

http://static6.businessinsider.com/image/4ec669c7eab8eaa65a000038/broncos-vonn-miller-linebacker-pro-bowl-season.jpg

Some, of course, ending with RG3 plastered in Arrowhead dirt.

jth1331
11-20-2011, 09:50 PM
Not underselling Griffin, but my god did OU screw up coverages and leave guys wide open down the field for Baylor. Plus he got lucky as hell on a tipped pass that resulted in an 87 yard TD.
I'm just bitter OU somehow forgot to cover guys 15+ yards down the field.

Bulldogs
11-20-2011, 11:38 PM
RGIII is my #3 prospect behind Luck and Barkley in that order. If they all come out this will be a badass quarterback class, but I think either RGIII or Barkley decides to return to school. If they do all declare, I honestly believe they are all top 10 picks. Each one could make an argument for #1 QB in a different year.

WCH
11-21-2011, 12:07 AM
RGIII is my #3 prospect behind Luck and Barkley in that order. If they all come out this will be a badass quarterback class, but I think either RGIII or Barkley decides to return to school. If they do all declare, I honestly believe they are all top 10 picks. Each one could make an argument for #1 QB in a different year.

RGIII already has his degree, so I don't know why he would come back for another year if he gets a first-round grade. If he does return, though, I think he can go #1 overall next year.

Complex
11-21-2011, 12:13 AM
If Tyler Wilson,Barkley,Luck and RGIII all declare there could be 4 QBs selected in the top 10.

ellsy82
11-21-2011, 02:09 AM
Best QB not named Luck and future top 10 pick.

How's that for a bold statement?

LOL. Pretty friggin bold.

MetSox17
11-21-2011, 03:07 AM
I honestly have a ton of fears of his success as a pro prospect. But god damn is he fun to watch and i wish him the absolute best, i really want him to succeed, i just wouldn't like it if my team had a top five pick and was banking the franchise on him being successful in the pros.

RWills
11-21-2011, 08:06 AM
Is everyone forgetting about Landry Jones when considering top 10?

Lets not forget the big QB FA which will throw a wrench in your mock drafts...Matt Flynn

Im tagging him to go to Washington...Snyder has the cash, Shanny on the hot seat won't want a rookie

ElectricEye
11-21-2011, 09:55 AM
Is everyone forgetting about Landry Jones when considering top 10?

Landry has played himself out of that position and never really deserved to be there in the first place. I'm just totally not on board with that guy at all. He's got the size and the arm strength, but there's a major element of awkwardness and lack of polish to his game that's just frightening. Good prospect on paper, but when you put it all together it just doesn't add up. I've talked to a lot of people who feel the same way too.


As far as Griffin and translating go, there's a few things to be concerned about. His completion percentage is inflated by the offense he plays in. That'll probably be the most common thing brought up throughout the process. The thing is; the same can be said for nearly every other quarterback in the country. It's not like the screen game doesn't work/isn't used at the NFL level either. Specifically looking at that play, he executes it very well even, getting the ball out quick and putting it in a position where the receiver can get yardage after the catch. That's not what makes him special or what will get him picked in the top half of the first round however. He'll make his money because of the deep ball. Griffin is top notch in that area. He doesn't have the type of elite arm strength you typically see from a guy who throws it down the field well, but he's got more than enough and he rarely floats it. His ball placement on those deep throws is absolutely superb. Leads his receivers very well and consistently puts the ball right where it needs to be. He's not asked to throw a lot of mid-range balls because of how successful he is as a deep ball thrower, but he's been pretty good in that area as well. I've seen him complete a few back shoulder throws this year that should translate very well to the NFL.

That's just as a thrower though. He's also has outstanding pocket presence and will be the kind of guy who can bail out an offense line and evade the rush, both from within the pocket and escaping it. There are times when he tries to do so much and makes plays that just won't be there at the next level with the speed that exists in along the front seven in the NFL, but that's and adjustment that a lot of athletic quarterbacks have to make and have a track record of doing. Mechanically, he's pretty sound. He's able to set his feet and shoulders set, even when he's on the run. Not a guy you'll see throwing off his back foot very often.

Really, I'm just enamored with this kid. I don't think there's anyone who can challenge Luck for the top quarterback spot, but there's a lot of room for interpretation as far as who the silver medal for a quarterback needy team will be. I like Barkley quite a bit, but I don't see a guy who will be as consistently good throwing the ball down the field as Griffin will be. I think he'll face some criticism and scrutiny throughout the process. Some of that will be fair, but I think the argument about his offense being a concern and his receivers bailing him out is just completely offbase. Completely, even. Kendall Wright is a real good looking prospect, but Griffin puts him in great position to make plays just as often as Wright does for Griffin. If you want to see a guy who has concerns about the system and receivers bailing a guy out, go throw on some tape of Gabbert from last year. There's a rather large difference between than and what Griffin has been doing at Baylor.

keylime_5
11-21-2011, 10:22 AM
what people are losing in all the Griffin mania is that Jones made some impressive throws and had a great game himself this past weekend. He has the arm and the ability to throw a great ball that is a strike on longer intermediate routes that I haven't seen from the other top QB prospects this year as much. No doubt he has proven that he can fit it into a tight window better than Griffin - who basically is making throws to wide open receivers on every play (typical in college). Jones does play every snap from the shotgun in that spread, he does get bad with his footwork and throws off his back foot too much, he gets rattled under pressure and makes too many bad decisions, he does need work but he has franchise QB potential. Good size, better athleticism than normal, good arm, good accurate ball downfield. I think this guy is gonna light it up in workouts and go top 10 despite not being a draftnik favorite.

BeerBaron
11-21-2011, 10:30 AM
Jones does play every snap from the shotgun in that spread, he does get bad with his footwork and throws off his back foot too much, he gets rattled under pressure and makes too many bad decisions, he does need work but he has franchise QB potential. Good size, better athleticism than normal, good arm, good accurate ball downfield. I think this guy is gonna light it up in workouts and go top 10 despite not being a draftnik favorite.

Replace "Jones" with "Gabbert" and see what I did there.

keylime_5
11-21-2011, 01:47 PM
yeah, and Gabbert went top ten. I'm not saying I like Jones, just that he'll go high.

when people make their little draft boards or whatever and have Jones behind a bunch of guys I don't care, I do too. But when they fail to believe that teams will consider Jones in the top ten if they need a QB, I think something needs to be said.

jayceheathman
11-25-2011, 02:50 AM
I love RG3.

FUNBUNCHER
11-25-2011, 11:07 AM
Landry Jones didn't throw a TD against Baylor. EVERYONE throws for TDs against Baylor.

I totally understand the anxiety when it comes to Landry Jones. WHen you watch him you get the sense that something in his game is missing. Of all the top prospects he has the most potential not to live up to expectations and struggle to be even an average QB in the NFL.

LonghornsLegend
11-25-2011, 11:18 AM
And, for what it's worth, he seems to have that old cliche 'it' factor. Smart, a leader, likable etc. I can see him going top 5 for sure.

And not just that, but dude is tough as nails, a trait that can sometimes get overlooked. He takes a pounding and gets right back up, and he could probably fill out his frame a bit more then he already has. Incredibly hard worker too, I love guys who have immense upside but have everything in place to reach that upside as well.

descendency
11-25-2011, 11:45 AM
Landry Jones didn't throw a TD against Baylor. EVERYONE throws for TDs against Baylor.

I totally understand the anxiety when it comes to Landry Jones. WHen you watch him you get the sense that something in his game is missing. Of all the top prospects he has the most potential not to live up to expectations and struggle to be even an average QB in the NFL.

His problem (statistically) is that Blake Bell is being put into the game when the team is in the redzone.

If I were a QB, I would be personally offended by this. I can understand if he was put into the game during games against Trinity Community College, but against Baylor... that's another story.

Vikes99ej
11-26-2011, 04:43 PM
Is everyone forgetting about Landry Jones when considering top 10?

Lets not forget the big QB FA which will throw a wrench in your mock drafts...Matt Flynn

Im tagging him to go to Washington...Snyder has the cash, Shanny on the hot seat won't want a rookie

Wait... did I miss something? People are excited about Matt Flynn being a free agent?

I would put Griffin as my #2 QB. I like him a lot more than last years 1st pick, Newton.

GaMeTiMe
11-26-2011, 04:56 PM
Wait... did I miss something? People are excited about Matt Flynn being a free agent?

Yes. If guys like Schaub and Kolb can move on to start on other teams after being backups their first few years, so should Flynn. He's been behind the best QB in the best offense in football these past two seasons. The simple fact that Rodgers turned into Rodgers after backing up Favre his first few years and now Flynn is the next ready-made QB in Green Bay will sell itself. Not that that really means much, but it will still be in the discussion surrounding Flynn.

Washington is a logical landing spot, but not sure what they then do with their likely top-5 pick especially if this class really is a QB-frenzy. I think Cleveland is another nice destination for Flynn, I don't think they need to draft a new QB early and just try to start from scratch again.

Flyboy
12-03-2011, 09:03 PM
Am I allowed to say that watching RGIII gives me wood and he's by far one of my favorite prospects in the draft if he decides to declare?

Oh well, I just said it.

keylime_5
12-03-2011, 09:10 PM
yes, because he gives me wood too. such a silky smooth player. i want him in orange & brown.

Flyboy
12-03-2011, 09:12 PM
yes, because he gives me wood too. such a silky smooth player. i want him in orange & brown.

Don't you try to take RGIII and ruin him! He'd have... what to work with offensively there? :(

Greg Little?

kalbears13
12-03-2011, 09:15 PM
I could see RGIII losing a lot of stock (justified or not) between now and the draft. His abilities are easy to nitpick.

ElectricEye
12-03-2011, 09:21 PM
Well, it would be decidedly unfair if they're going based on the most common one I've heard, offensive system. He's the best deep ball thrower in the country. There's some dinking and dunking going on at Baylor, but Griffin loves to throw down the field and is deathly accurate when he does.

descendency
12-03-2011, 09:21 PM
I could see RGIII losing a lot of stock (justified or not) between now and the draft. His abilities are easy to nitpick.

I don't love him when I watch him. Something just looks weird to me.

SolidGold
12-03-2011, 09:30 PM
I don't love him when I watch him. Something just looks weird to me.

Wherever he goes I hope that team drafts Kendall Wright. He is responsible for so much of Griffin's success and is so underrated.

Flyboy
12-03-2011, 09:32 PM
I don't love him when I watch him. Something just looks weird to me.

He's a pretty polarizing prospect, but I for one, love his potential. I'd love to see him to go to a team like Washington or Seattle.

ElectricEye
12-03-2011, 09:37 PM
Wherever he goes I hope that team drafts Kendall Wright. He is responsible for so much of Griffin's success and is so underrated.

See, this one really bothers me. I don't really see how Wright can be causes so much of Griffin's success when he's routinely hitting him and others down the field in the hands without having them adjust for it. There's some bubble screen type stuff, but that's more to soften things up down the field in Baylor's scheme. Wright is a good player who was undervalued coming in(He's right where he should be now, mid-second round value. Not like we're talking about a guy you can just chuck it up to like an AJ Green or Julio Jones. You actually have to be pretty damn fine with a guy who has severe size limitations like Wright), but Griffin makes him look that much better.

The thing that concerns me about Griffin isn't anything super specific, but more the broader idea of him fitting into a pro-style system. I don't have much doubt about his physical ability to make the throws(even though his arm strength isn't amazing, more in the Christian Ponder neighborhood) or making reads, he does all that at the college level. He'll just be looking at the game from a different perspective and being coached in a different way, which is a challenge for any quarterback. We've seen spread guys with ability make the adjustment before(quicker and quicker these days too, it seems) but it's always something you've got to watch. He also is able to make a lot of plays with his legs at the college level. That will still be there in the NFL, but they'll be times where he'll have to get the ball out a lot quicker.

keylime_5
12-03-2011, 11:05 PM
I could see RGIII losing a lot of stock (justified or not) between now and the draft. His abilities are easy to nitpick.

so were vince young and cam newton's abilities and they were both top 3 picks. as long as he measures in at 6'2" at least I think teams will fall in love with his physical abilities and his personality. It's not like he's that raw of a thrower either for a mobile athletic QB.

keylime_5
12-03-2011, 11:07 PM
Wherever he goes I hope that team drafts Kendall Wright. He is responsible for so much of Griffin's success and is so underrated.

this is true, but I think it's safe to say that Griffin proved a long time ago that he is a great QB in his own right and Kendall just magnifies his ability if anything.

descendency
12-03-2011, 11:14 PM
He's a pretty polarizing prospect, but I for one, love his potential. I'd love to see him to go to a team like Washington or Seattle.

The crazy part about it is that I can't really come up with a reason I don't like him. He just doesn't seem to pass the eye test.

Wherever he goes I hope that team drafts Kendall Wright. He is responsible for so much of Griffin's success and is so underrated.

Patriots please. I really like Kendall Wright.

Caulibflower
12-04-2011, 03:18 AM
I don't love him when I watch him. Something just looks weird to me.

Me too. And like you, I have a hard time saying what it is. I think part of it is that his body looks like it's completely maxed out, and he looks pretty thin and small even in college, despite being listed as 6'2" 220, and those numbers are typically fine for a QB. I guess if I try to describe it... it's like when I watch him drop back to throw, I half expect the play to break down if he can't throw a fade. It's almost a sense that depends on making highlight-reel plays. A run for a first, a deep bomb, a scramble to avoid pressure and then dump off to his tight end... Which is great, of course, and fun to watch, but you don't really seem to see very many... methodical drives. Where he's taking what a defense is giving him... he's always having to beat the defense. Maybe that's a good enough way of saying it. Also think Kendall Wright is one of the top 5 receivers in college football right now. He plays a lot like Steve Smith. Really smooth, and just knifes through seams in defenses. Plays really aggressively with his speed for a guy who isn't very big, and a lot of Griffin's highlights feature Wright.

Grizzlegom
12-04-2011, 06:40 AM
I have two concerns with RGIII. One being his size, I think he'll measure a solid 6'2" but he crouches an awful lot in his stance and his throwing motion isn't exactly over the top. It seems he needs to move around in the pocket just to find lanes to see over the middle and that's a pretty big concern. In addition, his size ties in to my other main concern which is injuries. I don't think he's actually 220 pounds, I think he's closer to 205. That combined with his injury history makes me worry about how he'll told up taking NFL hits week-in and week-out given he'll probably still be a runner in the NFL and he's not really the shifty type of runner and he takes big hits.

All that being said, he's still locked in as my number 3 QB and I still like him better than all the QBs from last year's draft.

FUNBUNCHER
12-04-2011, 07:45 AM
During the game the play by play guy in the booth commented that when Griffin was a nationally ranked hurdler in HS, he weighed 195# and since then RGIII has gained roughly 25#.

Griffin IMO is like Patrick Peterson in that he has a tightly coiled musculature that doesn't make him appear as heavy as he actually is.

I think people are going to be surprised with Griffin's official numbers at the combine. Height, weight speed and agility.

Iamcanadian
12-04-2011, 12:19 PM
He's growing on me and I think he will grow on pro scouts and GM's. His intangibles are solid IMO and I believe he will be a solid 1st rounder.
The only question someone could have is arm strength, if the scouts think his arm is above average, he will rise substantially on draft boards.

DraftSavant
12-04-2011, 12:26 PM
During the game the play by play guy in the booth commented that when Griffin was a nationally ranked hurdler in HS, he weighed 195# and since then RGIII has gained roughly 25#.

Griffin IMO is like Patrick Peterson in that he has a tightly coiled musculature that doesn't make him appear as heavy as he actually is.

I think people are going to be surprised with Griffin's official numbers at the combine. Height, weight speed and agility.

People are going to be stupefied after the combine.

Honestly, I wouldn't be surprised at all if he's the #1 QB/player on some teams' draft boards.

keylime_5
12-04-2011, 01:01 PM
He's growing on me and I think he will grow on pro scouts and GM's. His intangibles are solid IMO and I believe he will be a solid 1st rounder.
The only question someone could have is arm strength, if the scouts think his arm is above average, he will rise substantially on draft boards.

there aren't any questions about his arm. he has had questionable accuracy if anything (though not shown in stats b/c of the offense he is in), but that comes in part from footwork and running around out of the pocket. No question this kid has the zip on his ball to fire it in there on all the throws and he throws a terrific deep ball. If people are okay with Luck and Barkley's arm then they will have no problem whatsoever with Griffin's.

J-Mike88
12-04-2011, 01:10 PM
I agree, RG3 is legit.
How big is he, factually?
Remember, Brees was too short coming out of Purdue.
http://i759.photobucket.com/albums/xx231/littleelmsports12/FUTURE%20STARS%20basketball%20football/2011fsf_griffin_batch6.jpg

I'm betting on RG3!

niel89
12-04-2011, 01:17 PM
Drew Brees is the exception not the rule. Just like you can't find HoF QBs late in the draft like Brady every year.

descendency
12-04-2011, 01:40 PM
I agree, RG3 is legit.
How big is he, factually?

Lol? He's at least 6'2"

FUNBUNCHER
12-04-2011, 01:43 PM
RGIII was listed as 6'3 as a freshman at Baylor, so I think his listed 6'2 is probably about right.

Vinny Chase
12-04-2011, 06:09 PM
Honestly I don't see why people are so enamored with RG3. I mean sure he's putting up nice numbers but that is really just a result of playing in an extremely weak conference and being surrounded by a plethora of great talent. If you put him on a situation like Matt Barkley where he is playing against top notch talent week in and week out without a single receiver to throw to he would be putting up about half the stats that he is.

SimonRath
12-04-2011, 06:12 PM
Honestly I don't see why people are so enamored with RG3. I mean sure he's putting up nice numbers but that is really just a result of playing in an extremely weak conference and being surrounded by a plethora of great talent. If you put him on a situation like Matt Barkley where he is playing against top notch talent week in and week out without a single receiver to throw to he would be putting up about half the stats that he is.

Matt Barkley has no receivers to throw to? you are sounding dumb right now

ElectricEye
12-04-2011, 06:14 PM
Yeah, that applies to Barkley far more than Griffin. Baylor isn't a super talented football team. Athletic group, but they're a fundamentally flawed team. In fact, you can easily argue that Griffin is as important to Baylor as Andrew Luck is to Stanford.

Vinny Chase
12-04-2011, 06:18 PM
so who does Barkley have to throw to then???? SC hasn't had a real go to wide out since Dwayne Jarrett. All I'm saying is that Barkley has had a tremendous season with an extremely weak supporting cast.

ElectricEye
12-04-2011, 06:23 PM
so who does Barkley have to throw to then???? SC hasn't had a real go to wide out since Dwayne Jarrett. All I'm saying is that Barkley has had a tremendous season with an extremely weak supporting cast.

Robert Woods and Marquise Lee are as good as any two starting receivers in the country and he has a top five pick at tackle in Matt Kalil(who many are saying is as good as Joe Thomas) and tons of five star recruits waiting in the wings.....what the hell are you even angling at here? I like Barkley a lot as well, but that's going to be one of, if not the biggest, argument used against him as a prospect.

Vinny Chase
12-04-2011, 06:38 PM
Hey I guess we can each have our own opinion on the matter, to me Barkley pretty much makes Woods and Lee what they are. I just personally think that all of Griffin's accomplishments can be attributed to the system he plays in and the conference he plays in. And you can't tell me that Baylor isn't talented, they just put up over 48 points on Texas. Also Griffin's receivers make Griffin look a ton better than he actually is, if it weren't for them he would be pretty mediocre if you ask me.

FUNBUNCHER
12-04-2011, 06:58 PM
Honestly I don't see why people are so enamored with RG3. I mean sure he's putting up nice numbers but that is really just a result of playing in an extremely weak conference and being surrounded by a plethora of great talent. If you put him on a situation like Matt Barkley where he is playing against top notch talent week in and week out without a single receiver to throw to he would be putting up about half the stats that he is.

What top notch competition is Barkley playing week in and week out??
Unless you're an SEC QB you don't usually face shutdown defenses most Saturdays.

Vinny Chase
12-04-2011, 07:04 PM
I guess Top Notch talent wasn't the right word but I certainly think that Barkley has faced much stiffer competition than RG3 has in the Big 12. Obviously there is no conference that even compares to the SEC but I think that the Pac 12 could easily be the next best.

soybean
12-04-2011, 07:04 PM
What top notch competition is Barkley playing week in and week out??
Unless you're an SEC QB you don't usually face shutdown defenses most Saturdays.

please. shutdown defenses? LSU, Alabama, and then...?

ElectricEye
12-04-2011, 07:07 PM
Baylor certainly doesn't have top notch talent. They've done a good job developing the guys that Texas, A&M, and Tech don't want to go after, but they're still Baylor. Robert Griffin and Art Briles have done a great job turning that program around, but saying that they're on par with Texas and USC? Lolwut?

gpngc
12-04-2011, 07:26 PM
+Athletic
+Gifted runner
+Intelligent
+Hard-working
+Accurate
+Deep ball

-Height
-Kinda thin

Sign me up.

ElectricEye
12-04-2011, 07:28 PM
Add upside too. Significant upside. That's one thing I think that's being lost in the conversation; Griffin has the potential to get so much better, even still.

vidae
12-04-2011, 07:32 PM
I love this kid and I'd be so happy if he somehow ended up in KC. I think he's going to kill in the interviews. Hopefully Pioli falls in love with him.

SimonRath
12-04-2011, 07:45 PM
so who does Barkley have to throw to then???? SC hasn't had a real go to wide out since Dwayne Jarrett. All I'm saying is that Barkley has had a tremendous season with an extremely weak supporting cast.

Oh. My. Gosh.

SimonRath
12-04-2011, 07:45 PM
Hey I guess we can each have our own opinion on the matter, to me Barkley pretty much makes Woods and Lee what they are. I just personally think that all of Griffin's accomplishments can be attributed to the system he plays in and the conference he plays in. And you can't tell me that Baylor isn't talented, they just put up over 48 points on Texas. Also Griffin's receivers make Griffin look a ton better than he actually is, if it weren't for them he would be pretty mediocre if you ask me.

OH. MY. GOSH.

DraftSavant
12-04-2011, 07:56 PM
Hey I guess we can each have our own opinion on the matter, to me Barkley pretty much makes Woods and Lee what they are. I just personally think that all of Griffin's accomplishments can be attributed to the system he plays in and the conference he plays in. And you can't tell me that Baylor isn't talented, they just put up over 48 points on Texas. Also Griffin's receivers make Griffin look a ton better than he actually is, if it weren't for them he would be pretty mediocre if you ask me.

I pretty much believe the exact opposite of this. Both conferences have trash defenses. Woods is the best route runner in college football since Tory Holt and Marquise Lee is constantly getting open deep with nobody within 10 yards of him. Tough to knock RGIII's system, too, because that USC system has incredibly simple pass concepts.

I mean, I can't knock Barkley for having talented wide receivers directly. But if you isolate him, you'll see a lot of throws down the field where Lee has to slow up and wait for it. It doesn't matter because he's so open to begin with, but those aren't getting completed in the NFL.

San Diego Chicken
12-04-2011, 11:12 PM
Mid to late 1st for me right now, but it's early in the process. Give him the Heisman right now though. What a tremendous season he's had.

Iamcanadian
12-04-2011, 11:20 PM
there aren't any questions about his arm. he has had questionable accuracy if anything (though not shown in stats b/c of the offense he is in), but that comes in part from footwork and running around out of the pocket. No question this kid has the zip on his ball to fire it in there on all the throws and he throws a terrific deep ball. If people are okay with Luck and Barkley's arm then they will have no problem whatsoever with Griffin's.

I believe you are right on about his arm strength and I firmly think he will rise substantially during the combine because his intangibles are pretty close to Luck's.
It won't surprise me if he gives Barkley all the competition he can handle for the #2 spot among QB's and maybe in the draft.
This kid is very special IMO and if his arm strength is above average, the team that drafts him will have its franchise QB.
If you wondering why I bring up arm strength all the time, it is because college offensive systems can be very deceptive in hiding this weakness by rarely asking a QB to make throws he cannot complete. I really believe RG111 has a solid arm but I'm still waiting for outside confirmation from a reliable source, say like a Mayock or a Casserly before I will completely trust my own eyes. TV has a way of slowing down the speed of a thrown ball and judging arm strength when it isn't elite is a tricky thing on TV as I have learned from past experience.

JBCX
12-05-2011, 08:37 AM
For the people who are claiming that he doesn't face competition as good as Barkley's:

RGIII beat Oklahoma and Texas, and a solid TCU squad. And he didnt' just beat them, he PILLAGED them.

Tell me that's not decent competition.

bruschis4all
12-05-2011, 09:06 AM
For the people who are claiming that he doesn't face competition as good as Barkley's:

RGIII beat Oklahoma and Texas, and a solid TCU squad. And he didnt' just beat them, he PILLAGED them.

Tell me that's not decent competition.

Exactly. Those defenses are just as good as Oregon, Stanford and ND's defense. USC's 3 toughest games. I think these guys are 2-3 in the draft. One coach may prefer one over the other. Another coach the opposite. I'm predicting two trades up to get these guys. My hunches are Miami and Washington because that allows the teams trading down(St. Louis and Minnesota to get an elite prospect+picks). I wouldn't discount Cleveland, KC and Seattle either.

JBCX
12-05-2011, 09:09 AM
Exactly. Those defenses are just as good as Oregon, Stanford and ND's defense. USC's 3 toughest games. I think these guys are 2-3 in the draft. One coach may prefer one over the other. Another coach the opposite. I'm predicting two trades up to get these guys. My hunches are Miami and Washington because that allows the teams trading down(St. Louis and Minnesota to get an elite prospect+picks). I wouldn't discount Cleveland, KC and Seattle either.

Oklahoma and Texas probably play tougher defense than Stanford, Oregon, and Notre Dame. In fact, I'm sure of it.

I'd have Luck #1, and RGIII a clear-cut #2 at this point on the draft board.

Barkley is a close #3, which means that there are potentially THREE elite QB prospects in this draft. Teams that need a QB will be ecstatic this year.

SolidGold
12-05-2011, 09:14 AM
Oklahoma's defense was not all that good, they got destroyed by Ok St. This takes away some of that luster on Griffin's Oklahoma victory not to mention that lucky bounce like that long Wright TD.

TCU had 6 new defensive starters and they played them the first game of the year, if Baylor played TCU at the end of the season that would of been a different game.

Texas was plagued by turnovers vs Baylor. They are the only defense I would of put above Stanford, Oregon and ND.

JBCX
12-05-2011, 09:18 AM
Oklahoma's defense was not all that good, they got destroyed by Ok St. This takes away some of that luster on Griffin's Oklahoma victory not to mention that lucky bounce like that long Wright TD.


You're going to tell me with a straight face that you'd take Stanford's defense, or Notre Dame's defense, over Oklahoma's?

Oklahoma State might put up 30+ points against LSU. They have one of the best offenses in CFB. Just because they put up a bunch of points against Oklahoma does not mean that Oklahoma's defense is bad.


TCU had 6 new defensive starters and they played them the first game of the year, if Baylor played TCU at the end of the season that would of been a different game.


Or it might be the same. You don't know. All we know is that RGIII made TCU's defense look foolish already.


Texas was plagued by turnovers vs Baylor. They are the only defense I would of put above Stanford, Oregon and ND.

I'd put all three of these defenses above Stanford, Oregon, and ND.

SolidGold
12-05-2011, 09:22 AM
You're going to tell me with a straight face that you'd take Stanford's defense, or Notre Dame's defense, over Oklahoma's?

Oklahoma State might put up 30+ points against LSU. They have one of the best offenses in CFB. Just because they put up a bunch of points against Oklahoma does not mean that Oklahoma's defense is bad.



Or it might be the same. You don't know. All we know is that RGIII made TCU's defense look foolish already.



I'd put all three of these defenses above Stanford, Oregon, and ND.


You forgot Oregon's defense as well.

TACKLE
12-05-2011, 01:09 PM
Whenever I watch Griffin, there's always been something that's just a bit off. I had a hard time explaining it but it definitely frustrated me when I was evaluating him. But I think I figured it out. His biggest issue which is a major flaw but also actually makes me feel more comfortable with him because it's correctable. Griffin needs to re-work his mechanics from the ground up as he doesn't use his lower body to throw the ball. He has his little hop, narrows his base, stands straight-legged and just flings it with his arm opposed to setting a solid base, sticking his feet in the ground and driving the ball down field. On top of that, we see him over-stride when he does try to step into his throw which causes him to throw off balanced and more importantly takes away from the velocity on his throws. But that's still connected to his issue about not using his lower body and his hips to throw the ball. Moving on up, I would say he needs to compact his release a bit so he can have more control of the ball as it leaves his hands.

Although these are major issues, they are fixable. And the fact that they are correctable gives me encouragement about his NFL prospects. If he can learn to throw from his feet up, strength his lower body and tighten up his release a bit, it will significantly improve his velocity on his throws and his ability to drive balls into tight windows as well as the control he has on his throws.

Thinking about where he could be with NFL coaching, I am now more excited about his upside than ever. However, banking your franchise on his ability to re-tool the way he throws the ball from the ground up is a very risky proposition. We just can't really project how much a guy can produce in that area. But how he is handled and the situation he is put in can really make or break his success - more so than most other top QB's in recent years.

ElectricEye
12-05-2011, 01:24 PM
I've noticed the hop too and it's an interesting observation to make and you did a very good job verbalizing it, but it's not something that totally redefines the way I view him as a prospect nor do I think it's something that scouts will be seriously concerned with. Jake Locker had a massive problem with overstriding that was pointed out by some people last year. It held him back a little as a prospect, yeah, but ultimately it didn't hurt his draft position. Ponder had some things I didn't like mechanically last year too, but they didn't hurt him much either. I won't even mention Gabbert haha, because he shouldn't even really count(seriously, far and away the worst footwork I've ever seen in a guy that's supposed to be a top flight NFL prospect) , but I digress.

I don't think it's really all that big of a deal, even. One of Griffin's real strength is how he's able to square his shoulders up and go quickly from a "running" position to a throwing position. He might be taking some shortcuts to get there, but the way he's able to deliver an accurate ball into a tight space while on the move is what sets him apart from the rest of the pack for me...and what makes him a rare prospect. I would be more inclined to agree with you on the severity of it if it was adversely effecting his performance, but he's been nothing short of dominate even with some technical problems. No doubt there's a ton of room for improvement, but I don't think there's enough for him to have to redefine himself as a thrower in the NFL the way some prospect have had to(and succeeded in doing) in the past. You can never guarantee something like that can happen, so I see where you're coming from, but I guess I'm just not all that uncomfortable with his mechanics as they are presently constituted.

onejayhawk
12-05-2011, 09:56 PM
I guess Top Notch talent wasn't the right word but I certainly think that Barkley has faced much stiffer competition than RG3 has in the Big 12. Obviously there is no conference that even compares to the SEC but I think that the Pac 12 could easily be the next best.

Funny. Neither conference played much defense this year. Of the two, the best by far was Texas, who Baylor just lit up. The Pac12 had only 1 team in the top 25: Stanford at #25. At the very most you can claim Barkley faces as tough or more consistently tough. It is not even arguable he faced tougher.

You will also note that:

1. Robert Griffin III, BAY 192.3
2. Russell Wilson, WIS 191.6
3. Case Keenum, HOU 177.9
4. Kellen Moore, BSU 176.8
5. Andrew Luck, STAN 167.5

Barkley is #8. To me another key stat of a QB is Yds/att. RG III has a mind blowing 10.8. Barkley has a respectable 7.9, good for 32nd place. Considering what Russell Wilson is doing behind that NFL grade OL, it is astounding that anyone is ahead in either QB Rating or Td/Att, much less both.

J

onejayhawk
12-05-2011, 09:58 PM
I've noticed the hop too and it's an interesting observation to make and you did a very good job verbalizing it, but it's not something that totally redefines the way I view him as a prospect nor do I think it's something that scouts will be seriously concerned with. Jake Locker had a massive problem with overstriding that was pointed out by some people last year. It held him back a little as a prospect, yeah, but ultimately it didn't hurt his draft position. Ponder had some things I didn't like mechanically last year too, but they didn't hurt him much either. I won't even mention Gabbert haha, because he shouldn't even really count(seriously, far and away the worst footwork I've ever seen in a guy that's supposed to be a top flight NFL prospect) , but I digress.

I don't think it's really all that big of a deal, even. One of Griffin's real strength is how he's able to square his shoulders up and go quickly from a "running" position to a throwing position. He might be taking some shortcuts to get there, but the way he's able to deliver an accurate ball into a tight space while on the move is what sets him apart from the rest of the pack for me...and what makes him a rare prospect. I would be more inclined to agree with you on the severity of it if it was adversely effecting his performance, but he's been nothing short of dominate even with some technical problems. No doubt there's a ton of room for improvement, but I don't think there's enough for him to have to redefine himself as a thrower in the NFL the way some prospect have had to(and succeeded in doing) in the past. You can never guarantee something like that can happen, so I see where you're coming from, but I guess I'm just not all that uncomfortable with his mechanics as they are presently constituted.

That hop seems to be resetting his feet, or adjusting the balance. As you say, he does not spread his feet for a solid base, but he does get excellent accuracy when he does it.

J

TACKLE
12-05-2011, 10:00 PM
There is no 'key stat'. Project skill sets, not stats.

onejayhawk
12-05-2011, 10:04 PM
There is no 'key stat'. Project skill sets, not stats.

Granted. However stats are still useful, especially comparing two players of the same age or experience. Since Barkley is the more experienced, the comparison is particularly helpful.

BTW have you compared any tape of RG III 2010 to RG III 2011?

J

dannyz
12-05-2011, 10:15 PM
People all over Twitter are saying he is going to Declare for the 2012 NFL Draft.

keylime_5
12-05-2011, 10:41 PM
Granted. However stats are still useful, especially comparing two players of the same age or experience. Since Barkley is the more experienced, the comparison is particularly helpful.

BTW have you compared any tape of RG III 2010 to RG III 2011?

J

I know that RGIII struggled as a passer (esp w/accuracy on key downs) against Illinois in last year's bowl game and looked like a 2nd rounder at best at that point. Totally dominant this year, I think the emergence of Kendall Wright as an unstoppable playmaker and Griffin's perfection of his deep ball have really helped him take the next step this year. Being another year removed from a leg injury that sidelined him helps too.

DraftSavant
12-06-2011, 12:48 AM
I know that RGIII struggled as a passer (esp w/accuracy on key downs) against Illinois in last year's bowl game and looked like a 2nd rounder at best at that point. Totally dominant this year, I think the emergence of Kendall Wright as an unstoppable playmaker and Griffin's perfection of his deep ball have really helped him take the next step this year. Being another year removed from a leg injury that sidelined him helps too.

Yeah, most quarterbacks go through horrible accuracy issues when recovering from ACL injuries. If you don't have the ability to drive off that back leg with confidence...everything else falls apart mechanically.

onejayhawk
12-06-2011, 07:31 PM
For what it is worth, National Football Post has RG III at #2 on their Big Board. Barkley is #18, but moving up.

That being said, this si from one of their best writers, and a former scout IIRC.

Overall, I feel that the success that Cam Newton has had this year helps Griffin. Like Griffin, Newton was an unconventional athletic quarterback in a spread offense. Though the schemes are different there is enough similarity to compare. Griffin has excellent intelligence and should have no problem learning a pro system. Griffin has played a lot more football than Newton against equal competition so I have no problem in saying that he will be a very high pick. Still, in saying that, depending on what junior quarterbacks come out, he still may be only the 3rd quarterback drafted. Without question, I would take Andrew Luck and Matt Barkley before I would take Griffin. Still he probably goes in the top 5-7 picks of the draft. The quarterbacks who go in the first round of this draft are far better players than the quarterbacks last year and could have more impact as rookies.

http://www.nationalfootballpost.com/Two-future-NFL-draft-picks-pace-Baylors-offense.html

J

gpngc
12-06-2011, 07:48 PM
I love everything about him except his thin frame. Cam and Tebow can carry the ball about 10 times a game because they have the bulk to take hits.

I think there is significant injury risk with a guy as thin as RG3. Think about Vick's career...

And I know he's a skilled passer first and foremost but there's no way an athlete like him/his OC wouldn't utilize his legs...

That's what scares me. High risk of injury at the next level...

RaiderNation
12-06-2011, 07:54 PM
I agree being small and a running QB doesn't work in the NFL and RG3 will most likely struggle with some nagging injuries in his career. He has awesome potential though and if you can get a solid 4 prime years from him he could get you a ring. I think he is a top 8 pick in the draft depending on if Barkley comes out.

FUNBUNCHER
12-06-2011, 07:55 PM
Compared to Aaron Rodgers, RGIII's weight is fine. How much do people think he weighs?? People are talking like Griffin is 200# soaking wet.

gpngc
12-06-2011, 07:57 PM
^He looks about that thin to me... maybe I'm wrong?

It's not just the # weight, it's how his body looks to me - frail.

He looks way thinner than Rodgers... I hope I'm wrong and he never gets hurt.

gpngc
12-06-2011, 07:59 PM
I'm not arguing against him at all. I'm just voicing my #1 concern.

If I needed a QB, I'd consider him as high as #2 overall.

I'd just get him on a weight/strength plan IMMEDIATELY.

vidae
12-06-2011, 08:22 PM
I'm not arguing against him at all. I'm just voicing my #1 concern.

If I needed a QB, I'd consider him as high as #2 overall.

I'd just get him on a weight/strength plan IMMEDIATELY.

I agree. He does look 6' and 180, but we'll have to wait to see what he measures at the combine.

Personally, my man crush is so big on him right now that I'd do exactly what you said, draft him anyway and get him in the weight room asap.

JBCX
12-06-2011, 08:47 PM
From what I've seen in games, there is simply no way he's over 200 lbs. I doubt he's taller than 6'1" at most, as well.

I guess we'll see at the Combine and/or the Senior Bowl.

Complex
12-06-2011, 08:47 PM
He looks long that is probably why it looks like he weighs under 200.

ElectricEye
12-06-2011, 09:02 PM
There's fudging heights and weights...and then there's being 2 inches shorter and 40 pounds lighter than listed. The former happens from time to time. The latter would be absolutely historic. The only time I can ever remember such a huge discrepancy was with some of the FSU guys.

At bare minimum, Griffin is 6'1 210. Fully expect him to be around 6'2 and 215-220. He was listed at 6'3 in high school and Baylor has historically only been off a half inch or so(if that) with the few guys they send to the NFL.

vidae
12-06-2011, 09:06 PM
Yeah, I was just saying that's what he LOOKS, not what I think he'll test. I think he'll be fine.

No matter what though I'd get him into the training/strength program immediately. I think it'd do wonders for him to get into that routine early.

norcalgsr
12-06-2011, 09:18 PM
He'll probably measure the same as Tyrod Taylor.

49erNation85
12-06-2011, 09:51 PM
From what I've seen in games, there is simply no way he's over 200 lbs. I doubt he's taller than 6'1" at most, as well.

I guess we'll see at the Combine and/or the Senior Bowl.

I though he was only a Junior? So only at the combine if he goes out.

FUNBUNCHER
12-06-2011, 11:08 PM
He's been in college four years so I think that makes him eligible for the Senior Bowl. Same deal for Luck.

Damn that's going to be one helluva game if both those guys play!!

TACKLE
12-06-2011, 11:26 PM
He's been in college four years so I think that makes him eligible for the Senior Bowl. Same deal for Luck.

Damn that's going to be one helluva game if both those guys play!!

That's not how it works. You have to be a SENIOR to play in the SENIOR Bowl.

SolidGold
12-07-2011, 07:45 AM
For what it is worth, National Football Post has RG III at #2 on their Big Board. Barkley is #18, but moving up.

That being said, this si from one of their best writers, and a former scout IIRC.

Overall, I feel that the success that Cam Newton has had this year helps Griffin. Like Griffin, Newton was an unconventional athletic quarterback in a spread offense. Though the schemes are different there is enough similarity to compare. Griffin has excellent intelligence and should have no problem learning a pro system. Griffin has played a lot more football than Newton against equal competition so I have no problem in saying that he will be a very high pick. Still, in saying that, depending on what junior quarterbacks come out, he still may be only the 3rd quarterback drafted. Without question, I would take Andrew Luck and Matt Barkley before I would take Griffin. Still he probably goes in the top 5-7 picks of the draft. The quarterbacks who go in the first round of this draft are far better players than the quarterbacks last year and could have more impact as rookies.

http://www.nationalfootballpost.com/Two-future-NFL-draft-picks-pace-Baylors-offense.html

J

This baffles me...they are really nothing alike (besides the obvious), Newton can do certain things because of his great size, he played in an option read offense at Auburn, Griffin's offense is more of the "classical" spread variety. There is no way the Griffin at the next level will be asked to run as much as Newton does.

The Griffin hype is getting a little out of control, the Big 12 produces prolific passers year after year and he played in a spread offense. Only time will tell on whether or not he is successful at the next level.

FUNBUNCHER
12-07-2011, 08:23 AM
Hype would be talking up RGIII as a potential 1/1 pick.

IMO he's been considered at least the 3rd best prospect in this draft since November.

The two top rookie NFL QBs came from college spread offenses. It's just not the huge negative that it used to be for most teams scouting college prospects.

onejayhawk
12-07-2011, 10:19 AM
This baffles me...they are really nothing alike (besides the obvious), Newton can do certain things because of his great size, he played in an option read offense at Auburn, Griffin's offense is more of the "classical" spread variety. There is no way the Griffin at the next level will be asked to run as much as Newton does.

The Griffin hype is getting a little out of control, the Big 12 produces prolific passers year after year and he played in a spread offense. Only time will tell on whether or not he is successful at the next level.

They have two outstanding features in common. They are very fast, and they dont look like classic leadfoot QBs. Since one fast, unconventional QB succeeded, why not another. Personnel departments are big on copying the last successful innovation.

RG III is not at all like Newton. He does not have a Warren Moon arm, but that is more the style.

J

ElectricEye
12-07-2011, 10:51 AM
The Griffin hype is getting a little out of control, the Big 12 produces prolific passers year after year and he played in a spread offense. Only time will tell on whether or not he is successful at the next level.

The Big XII produces prolific passers in football factories that draw in talent and Texas Tech...and none of them have film as good as Griffin's(with the notable exception of Sam Bradford) is. That's what this is about. The spread offense thing doesn't mean what it used to mean anymore with the success to failure rate of talented guys coming out of those systems syncing right up with guys coming out of pro-style systems. Besides, it's not like the shotgun magically stops being effective in the NFL. No doubt you need to be able to take snaps under center and be able to drop back, but we see spread concepts in the NFL working week after week.

I think we've seen even to realize that neither system is inherently better for preparing a quarterback for NFL speed. Coming from a "pro-style" scheme might allow someone to take some shortcuts that a spread guy can't take, but at the end of the day it's all about talent and what you see in the games. With Griffin, we see him routinely throwing passes deep down the field and completing them over defenders with minimal adjustments by wide receivers. Nick Foles is one thing, RGIII is another entirely.

DraftSavant
12-07-2011, 12:31 PM
I figured out exactly who RGIII reminds me of.

This player brought the first Heisman Trophy and National Championship to his school. He has been inducted into the College Football Hall of Fame.

He did not play in the NFL (which renders this comparison kinda useless, but fun nonetheless. The two are strikingly similar players.)

Who am I talking about?

ElectricEye
12-07-2011, 12:34 PM
Why not just say Charlie Ward? Only one guy to really fit that description.


I really don't know how that one works, not saying it isn't valid...but the circumstances of the two are just very different and Charlie was before my time(not going to make judgement based on out of context highlight tape). Different league too.

DraftSavant
12-07-2011, 12:38 PM
Why not just say Charlie Ward? Only one guy to really fit that description.


I really don't know how that one works, not saying it isn't valid...but the circumstances of the two are just very different and Charlie was before my time(not going to make judgement based on out of context highlight tape). Different league too.

I was testing NFLDC's sense of CFB history, EE! But yeah, it was pretty obvious.

Like we both said, the comparison doesn't offer anything in terms of NFL projection. But they're pretty much the exact same size, with similar demeanors, work ethic, throwing mechanics, playing style, etc.

h62DS92aYnc

FUNBUNCHER
12-07-2011, 04:14 PM
That's a great comparison. Ward IMO could have played in the NFL and possibly been a first rounder. He had a long NBA career but I think he could have been decent as an NFL QB.

Brown Leader
12-07-2011, 04:26 PM
No it's not. Current player comparison I'd say would be Josh Johnson.

FUNBUNCHER
12-07-2011, 05:03 PM
Is the Pioneer League major college football??
I prefer the Charlie Ward drop.

onejayhawk
12-07-2011, 10:15 PM
As if he needed it, RG III is the Big XII Offensive POY.

J

descendency
12-08-2011, 12:07 AM
As if he needed it, RG III is the Big XII Offensive POY.

J

That's the easiest award to determine.

onejayhawk
12-09-2011, 08:44 AM
That's the easiest award to determine.

He had some stiff competition this year: Tannehill, Weeden, Black mon.

J

jbsg02
12-09-2011, 01:17 PM
He will be graduating with his MASTERS in the spring. He finished his bachelor's in 3 years and is working on a masters in communications (I think). He has said that he wanted to go to Baylor law school next year, but they would have to make a special exception for him because they don't offer a part-time law program and he couldn't do both. Apparently, he also wants to try to run hurdles in the Olympics next year. Having said that, I believe he will try his hand at the NFL, I'm really impressed every time I watch him play. Should be a top 15 pick

PatrickWillis
12-09-2011, 02:47 PM
No it's not. Current player comparison I'd say would be Josh Johnson.

HAHAHAHAH WHAT? They couldn't be more different physically.

onejayhawk
12-09-2011, 10:54 PM
He will be graduating with his MASTERS in the spring. He finished his bachelor's in 3 years and is working on a masters in communications (I think). He has said that he wanted to go to Baylor law school next year, but they would have to make a special exception for him because they don't offer a part-time law program and he couldn't do both. Apparently, he also wants to try to run hurdles in the Olympics next year. Having said that, I believe he will try his hand at the NFL, I'm really impressed every time I watch him play. Should be a top 15 pick

He was taking college courses while in HS, and grad courses as an undergrad.He is also planning on Law School and marriage. Very smart and well grounded, and athletic of course, but works like a no talent. GMs will salivate at his interviews.

J

WCH
12-10-2011, 03:44 AM
The hardest part about evaluating RGIII is going to be getting past all of the "other stuff" and focusing on how his game translates to the NFL. He's graduating with his masters, plans to pursue a J.D., is an olympic-level hurdler, and happens to be a pretty good QB.

I mean, WTF? Who has a resume like that?

I don't think he should be a top-5 pick, but I think that a team will fall in love with him and make him a top-5 pick.

Sloopy
12-10-2011, 09:57 AM
The hardest part about evaluating RGIII is going to be getting past all of the "other stuff" and focusing on how his game translates to the NFL. He's graduating with his masters, plans to pursue a J.D., is an olympic-level hurdler, and happens to be a pretty good QB.

I mean, WTF? Who has a resume like that?

I don't think he should be a top-5 pick, but I think that a team will fall in love with him and make him a top-5 pick.

I think he deserves to be a top 5 pick, might just fall a bit outside of top 5 but I might take him as the second QB off the board at this point, I think Barkley is his only competition and he probably returns for another year to be the #1 QB next year (considering he could win a NC and he might even be the 3rd QB this year)

PoopSandwich
12-10-2011, 11:49 AM
With the Colts Skins Browns and Dolphins all likely to be picking in the top ~10-15 area there is a good chance 4 QB go before the midway point of the first round it seems.

vidae
12-10-2011, 11:56 AM
I hope to god the Chiefs trade up for a QB, as long as it isn't Landry Jones. I know boe hates RG3 but I'd be ecstatic if he was a Chief come April.

Make it happen Pioli!

JBCX
12-10-2011, 12:16 PM
I hope to god the Chiefs trade up for a QB, as long as it isn't Landry Jones. I know boe hates RG3 but I'd be ecstatic if he was a Chief come April.

Make it happen Pioli!

How high would you be willing to trade up to get RGIII if you're the KC GM?

Sloopy
12-10-2011, 01:23 PM
How high would you be willing to trade up to get RGIII if you're the KC GM?

I'm not a Chiefs fans so I won't speak for them, but if I was a GM I would probably go as high as 4.

If you get the first pick you take Luck, 2 and 3 are probably not teams selecting a QB, I would say 4 is the next QB taken and in my mind RGIII is the #2 QB on the board so this may very well be where he goes

stephenson86
12-10-2011, 05:31 PM
With a passer rating of 192, even if he does play against weaker D's that is pretty damn impressive, will his bowl game count into the season rating?

vidae
12-10-2011, 05:36 PM
I love RG3, but I think I'd still be more comfortable taking Barkley first, but if we took RG3 I wouldn't be upset at all.

And I'd move up to the top 5 for sure.

RaiderNation
12-10-2011, 06:47 PM
If RG3 wins the Heisman tonight he will be a lock top 5 pick, if not I still think he goes top 10. His stock really depends on if Barkley stays(which I think he will).

princefielder28
12-10-2011, 07:19 PM
If RG3 wins the Heisman tonight he will be a lock top 5 pick, if not I still think he goes top 10. His stock really depends on if Barkley stays(which I think he will).

how does winning an award influence his positioning at all???

vidae
12-10-2011, 07:54 PM
RG3! RG3! RG3!

Add Heisman winner to the list of awards!

akvikefan89
12-10-2011, 07:55 PM
Way to go RGIII!


The magic is in the socks.

DraftSavant
12-10-2011, 08:01 PM
Nerdswaaaaaagggggg

FUNBUNCHER
12-10-2011, 08:07 PM
Damn. Socks with a cape??
Put those in a drawer and lose them forever, playa.

Sloopy
12-10-2011, 08:37 PM
If RG3 wins the Heisman tonight he will be a lock top 5 pick, if not I still think he goes top 10. His stock really depends on if Barkley stays(which I think he will).

Yea I gotta agree with PF here, A lot of heisman winners go on to suck in the NFL. I'm not disagreeing with you that he's a top 10 pick but not quite sure what the award has to do with his stock

RaiderNation
12-11-2011, 12:40 AM
how does winning an award influence his positioning at all???

I think him winning th Heisman will only help his stock and hype heading into April, just wait until he runs a 4.4, NFLN will be raving about him 24/7. I also think it could make Barkley stay in school since RG3 is a real challenger for the #2 QB position. Barkley will stay in school and likely battle with Wilson/Jones for the top QB spot next year.

deepthoughtlife
12-11-2011, 04:18 AM
Robert Griffin III has one major strength -the deep ball. He is very accurate going deep, and gets the ball there without any significant delay.

He has one major weakness -his footwork is utterly horrible. This leads to inconsistency, and bouts of far worse accuracy than you would expect from him.

He is obviously very talented, but he certainly is very flawed. He is very fast, but often gets caught easily by rushers. He has a great deep ball, but often can't manage to throw well in the short to medium area. He doesn't have many incompletions, but quite a few of them are on what should be easy passes to wide open receivers, but which he misses badly.

I would liken him to Colin Kaepernick. Unfortunately, that comparison is of little help in seeing how well the prospect transitions into the player, but they are very similar. In many ways, Kaepernick was a much more talented player. The biggest difference is, people realized Kaepernick was a massive project player, and don't appear to realize the same about Griffin. Scott has him going top ten, and maybe he will, but it simply isn't a good risk that high.

Maybe it would be fair to point out the kind of success he's had statistically, but there are a lot of factors to explain it away. First, Baylor's receivers are seemingly always wide open. Second, raw talent can get you a lot further in college than in the pros. Third, most college teams are horrible at defending the the pass against any QB who can run. Fourth, the second half of his season was way down from the first half, though I will freely admit it was an amazing season. Then again, where is Colt Brennan right now? I haven't the foggiest either. Griffin has much bigger problems than Brennan did.

Is Griffin worth a pick? Of course. Is he worth an early pick? Not so much. I would slot him in around round 3, though a strong case could be made for round two.

FUNBUNCHER
12-11-2011, 10:36 AM
Sorry, but you can't seriously criticize a college QB's accuracy when he throws for over 72% completions. If you've seen RGIII play a complete game, he completes passes at all levels with uncanny accuracy. It just so happens he's uniquely rare throwing the deep ball and hitting his WRs in stride.

Swing passes, bubble screens, 15 yard slants, dig routes, 20 yard outs. Robert has the full repertoire of passes and he can throw the ball from all angles.

'Bouts of far worse accuracy than you would expect from him..?'
You know you're setting up the expectation that RGIII should have been completing around 85% of his passes this season??

WHy suddenly is Griffin expected to play at a level passing the football no other QB is the history of college football or the pros has ever attained?

And I hate the bogus criticism that since RGIII doesn't look like Devin Hester on a punt return when he scrambles, somehow Griffin is overrated as a runner.
RGIII is a mobile QB with elite speed. He's not someone like Mike Vick who becomes a RB when he breaks from the pocket.

Colin Kaepernick is nowhere near as sophisticated or developed as a passer coming out of Nevada as RGIII is after starting 4 years for Baylor.

You know why RGIII seemed to always have WRs WIDE open?? Because Griffin is one of the few college QBs who can look off safeties and freeze defenders when rolls out of the pocket.

The route tree Kaepernick was required to throw at Nevada was nowhere near the offense being run at Baylor. The 'Pistol' is almost about as sophisticated a passing offense as the one being run now in Denver with Tebow with the emphasis on limiting the QB's read to one WR on half the field.

Griffin's discipline, leadership, work ethic and intangibles including his physical ability are why he's going top 5 in April.

Third rounder?? Jeezus.

And please don't ever compare Colt McCoy or Colin Kaepernick to RGIII as if they were similar prospects.
McCoy doesn't have the arm or mobility or the size, and CK as a senior was simply too raw and unfinished as a passer to compare him to RGIII.

Shane P. Hallam
12-11-2011, 10:39 AM
I shake my head at all the people popping up after last night of RGIII > Luck as a prospect...

FUNBUNCHER
12-11-2011, 10:59 AM
Luck may not have lost any ground in the minds of scouts as the top QB prospect available, but I have less certainty that odds are that Luck will be head and shoulders a better pro than RGIII.

If BOTH these guys developed into top 5 QBs in the NFL, I would not be surprised.

Sloopy
12-11-2011, 11:45 AM
I think him winning th Heisman will only help his stock and hype heading into April, just wait until he runs a 4.4, NFLN will be raving about him 24/7. I also think it could make Barkley stay in school since RG3 is a real challenger for the #2 QB position. Barkley will stay in school and likely battle with Wilson/Jones for the top QB spot next year.

I'm not trying to knock you but I think that him running a 4.4 would have more to do with improving his stock than the heisman. The award is really just fodder for the media and means very little to his NFL career

Sloopy
12-11-2011, 11:47 AM
http://twitter.com/#!/MockingTheDraft/status/145920443780562944

Interesting side note:

Haven't found anything anywhere else yet but this makes it seem that he has still not yet decided between Law School and the NFL.

Also Elmo socks last night haha

ElectricEye
12-11-2011, 11:48 AM
I shake my head at all the people popping up after last night of RGIII > Luck as a prospect...

That's what is going to damage discussion here more than anything else, that and the idea that Griffin somehow came out of nowhere.


As far as Griffin's accuracy in footwork, I won't get terribly in depth about it because I have in the past, but those are two of his stronger attributes. Totally disagree that those are weakness. His footwork within and outside of the pocket, along with the accuracy that comes with it, are a large part of why I would take him in the top ten and feel good about it even.

vidae
12-11-2011, 11:49 AM
http://twitter.com/#!/MockingTheDraft/status/145920443780562944

Interesting side note:

Haven't found anything anywhere else yet but this makes it seem that he has still not yet decided between Law School and the NFL.

Also Elmo socks last night haha

Superman socks, not Elmo socks.

edit: Oh, Elmo socks today, Superman socks last night.

Sloopy
12-11-2011, 11:53 AM
Superman socks, not Elmo socks.

edit: Oh, Elmo socks today, Superman socks last night.

Oh my bad haha. Still awesome

molenguinurtle
12-11-2011, 08:58 PM
He's my favorite prospect in the draft, assuming he declares. Sky's definitely the limit for him.

brat316
12-11-2011, 09:04 PM
Man kind of sucks that he won that trophy. Great accomplishment, but say bye to his NFL career. I wanted RGIII to make it in the NFL, why did he have to win the trophy? WHY?

Should have given it to the honey badger.

TACKLE
12-12-2011, 03:58 AM
Man kind of sucks that he won that trophy. Great accomplishment, but say bye to his NFL career. I wanted RGIII to make it in the NFL, why did he have to win the trophy? WHY?

Should have given it to the honey badger.

http://assets.nydailynews.com/polopoly_fs/1.472760!/img/httpImage/image.jpg

WCH
12-12-2011, 05:20 AM
http://assets.nydailynews.com/polopoly_fs/1.472760!/img/httpImage/image.jpg

Less recent, but more proven:

http://media.cleveland.com/startingblocks/photo/roger-staubach-heisman-1963-ap-filejpg-ca414bbdeb313ce9.jpg

In between those guys though, I think Carson Palmer and Vinny Testaverde were the best Heisman QBs. We'll see how Bradford works out.

Not exactly anything to write home about, as a group.

deepthoughtlife
12-13-2011, 12:33 AM
Sorry, but you can't seriously criticize a college QB's accuracy when he throws for over 72% completions. If you've seen RGIII play a complete game, he completes passes at all levels with uncanny accuracy. It just so happens he's uniquely rare throwing the deep ball and hitting his WRs in stride.

Swing passes, bubble screens, 15 yard slants, dig routes, 20 yard outs. Robert has the full repertoire of passes and he can throw the ball from all angles.

'Bouts of far worse accuracy than you would expect from him..?'
You know you're setting up the expectation that RGIII should have been completing around 85% of his passes this season??

WHy suddenly is Griffin expected to play at a level passing the football no other QB is the history of college football or the pros has ever attained?

And I hate the bogus criticism that since RGIII doesn't look like Devin Hester on a punt return when he scrambles, somehow Griffin is overrated as a runner.
RGIII is a mobile QB with elite speed. He's not someone like Mike Vick who becomes a RB when he breaks from the pocket.

Colin Kaepernick is nowhere near as sophisticated or developed as a passer coming out of Nevada as RGIII is after starting 4 years for Baylor.

You know why RGIII seemed to always have WRs WIDE open?? Because Griffin is one of the few college QBs who can look off safeties and freeze defenders when rolls out of the pocket.

The route tree Kaepernick was required to throw at Nevada was nowhere near the offense being run at Baylor. The 'Pistol' is almost about as sophisticated a passing offense as the one being run now in Denver with Tebow with the emphasis on limiting the QB's read to one WR on half the field.

Griffin's discipline, leadership, work ethic and intangibles including his physical ability are why he's going top 5 in April.

Third rounder?? Jeezus.

And please don't ever compare Colt McCoy or Colin Kaepernick to RGIII as if they were similar prospects.
McCoy doesn't have the arm or mobility or the size, and CK as a senior was simply too raw and unfinished as a passer to compare him to RGIII.

I'm afraid you missed several parts of what I said entirely in your response. I explicitly mentioned that he had bouts of accuracy far worse than you would expect from him. That means he is usually quite accurate, but has a problem that can make him cease to be so. Looking at his stats, and overall success, you would expect that he was more accurate than he turned out to be in scouting. I never claimed his arm wasn't up to the task.

RGIII is a decent runner, but brings nothing exceptional to the table when doing so. He could not run an offense like Tebow's, or like Vick has had in the past. He therefore must be evaluated mostly as a passer.

His receivers were wide open, because the defense was not up to the task of covering them. He may have had something to do about it, but it is the receivers who won those battles. His receivers are good players , and you should not take away credit from them because you wish to prop up Griffin.

Robert Griffin III does not appear to be a sophisticated passer from my scouting. I don't know what you are thinking of when you say his footwork is excellent, but when I look at it, it is very sloppy and rarely correct. When he misses his receivers, this usually appears to be the cause. His decision making did not stand out either.

Kaepernick did not run anywhere near the same offense at Nevada; that part is definitely true. The question is, how well did they run their respective offenses, and what does it tell us about them as potential NFL players? Both of them were very successful; Kaepernick was very successful for more years. Every year as a starter, Kaepernick made Nevada a dangerous team. Griffin did that this year. The pistol could get away with being a relatively simple passing system, because Kaepernick ran the relatively complicated running game very well; Kaepernick still brought a lot of value to the passing game.

Kaepernick is a better runner, and has a much stronger arm than Griffin. Both of them threw beautiful deep balls. Both of them had poor footwork, though Kaepernick's was probably better. Griffin has a higher completion percentage, but in only one season is it notable. Griffin takes sacks at a much greater rate (75 in 40 games vs. 56 in 51 games). Kaepernick had more attempts. Kaepernick was a very intelligent player -the system was not simple because it needed to be that way for him.

Kaepernick had every bit as much intangibles as Griffin does. Both of them are projects. Both of them could end up making some team very happy. Neither is/was worthy of a first round pick.

Griffin can't even begin to challenge Luck as a QB prospect.

descendency
12-13-2011, 12:36 AM
'Bouts of far worse accuracy than you would expect from him..?'
You know you're setting up the expectation that RGIII should have been completing around 85% of his passes this season??

Baylor had one of the worst cases of dink and dunk I've ever seen in college football. His completion percentage was a joke.

FUNBUNCHER
12-13-2011, 05:42 AM
Baylor had one of the worst cases of dink and dunk I've ever seen in college football. His completion percentage was a joke.

Take away the passes less than 15 yards, since Baylor apparently is the only program that utilizes bubbles screens. Go 25 and over.
His completion percentage is still impressive and that's without relying on a TE.

So, Luck's 70% completions are pure, no screens, no 5-10 yard slants. Ignore the fact that Luck is throwing rainbows to TEs all day.
And Barkley's 69% completions are ALL 25 yard crossing routes that split over and under coverage because Barkley's arm is scary strong.

No college QB has looked more impressive throwing the football than RGIII this
season.

On passes 25+ yards, RGIII's completion percentage is 51% with 20 TDs and 1 INT.
For Matt Barkley, his completion percentage is 40.8% with 13 TDs and 0 INTs.

Andrew Luck??? 28.6%, 3 TDs and 1 INT.

Luck gets a partial pass IMO because Stanford really lacked deep threats this year.

Barkley was good throwing long. RGIII was off the charts.

RGIII isn't worth a first round pick??
You mean the way Cam Newton wasn't worth a first round pick last year??

Brown Leader
12-13-2011, 03:07 PM
Sorry, but you can't seriously criticize a college QB's accuracy when he throws for over 72% completions. If you've seen RGIII play a complete game, he completes passes at all levels with uncanny accuracy. It just so happens he's uniquely rare throwing the deep ball and hitting his WRs in stride.


His footwork needs all kinds of work because of Baylor's offense but I absolutely agree with this, that he shows the ability to throw to all levels with impressive accuracy, despite his footwork.



And I hate the bogus criticism that since RGIII doesn't look like Devin Hester on a punt return when he scrambles, somehow Griffin is overrated as a runner.
RGIII is a mobile QB with elite speed. He's not someone like Mike Vick who becomes a RB when he breaks from the pocket.


Not bogus at all. I see this as a significant flag because it could say something about his pocket presence. When he runs, he looks like a track guy, not a football player. Not that he doesn't show toughness, but he lacks solid running instincts. There are far slower players that show a much better ability to be elusive. Granted, I've watched only a handful of Baylor games this season, but I can't recall a time I've seen Griffin escape a tackle where he was dead to rights.

Just finished watching the Ari-SF game. Skelton's not regarded as a supremely mobile QB but his ability to elude and buy time reminds you of Big Ben. Both would be embarrassed by Griffin in a race but, in the pocket, with a couple guys bearing down, I'd bet on the those two escaping over RGIII every time. Agreed Griffin is a mobile QB with speed. But since the ability to scramble or buy time is connected with pocket presence, I think it is a legitimate question mark for him. In other words, with how easily RGIII is tackled at times, given his elite athletic ability, makes you wonder just how good his ability to buy time in the pocket will be like at the next level.

Perhaps he can dominate as a pocket passer at the next level and make it sort of a mute point but pocket presence is huge factor and hard to evaluate.

Iamcanadian
12-13-2011, 03:33 PM
Sorry, but you can't seriously criticize a college QB's accuracy when he throws for over 72% completions. If you've seen RGIII play a complete game, he completes passes at all levels with uncanny accuracy. It just so happens he's uniquely rare throwing the deep ball and hitting his WRs in stride.

Swing passes, bubble screens, 15 yard slants, dig routes, 20 yard outs. Robert has the full repertoire of passes and he can throw the ball from all angles.

'Bouts of far worse accuracy than you would expect from him..?'
You know you're setting up the expectation that RGIII should have been completing around 85% of his passes this season??

WHy suddenly is Griffin expected to play at a level passing the football no other QB is the history of college football or the pros has ever attained?

And I hate the bogus criticism that since RGIII doesn't look like Devin Hester on a punt return when he scrambles, somehow Griffin is overrated as a runner.
RGIII is a mobile QB with elite speed. He's not someone like Mike Vick who becomes a RB when he breaks from the pocket.

Colin Kaepernick is nowhere near as sophisticated or developed as a passer coming out of Nevada as RGIII is after starting 4 years for Baylor.

You know why RGIII seemed to always have WRs WIDE open?? Because Griffin is one of the few college QBs who can look off safeties and freeze defenders when rolls out of the pocket.

The route tree Kaepernick was required to throw at Nevada was nowhere near the offense being run at Baylor. The 'Pistol' is almost about as sophisticated a passing offense as the one being run now in Denver with Tebow with the emphasis on limiting the QB's read to one WR on half the field.

Griffin's discipline, leadership, work ethic and intangibles including his physical ability are why he's going top 5 in April.

Third rounder?? Jeezus.

And please don't ever compare Colt McCoy or Colin Kaepernick to RGIII as if they were similar prospects.
McCoy doesn't have the arm or mobility or the size, and CK as a senior was simply too raw and unfinished as a passer to compare him to RGIII.

Very well summed up. He's going likely #2 in the draft.

Grizzlegom
12-13-2011, 03:43 PM
I like Griffin whole bunches but another thing I'm a bit worried about is that I have heard Baylor's offense is a high school offense and that the learning curve will be huge in terms of learning an NFL offense. That being said, between the Cam Newton and Tim Tebow offenses, that seems like much less of a concern.

Iamcanadian
12-13-2011, 03:47 PM
His footwork needs all kinds of work because of Baylor's offense but I absolutely agree with this, that he shows the ability to throw to all levels with impressive accuracy, despite his footwork.



Not bogus at all. I see this as a significant flag because it could say something about his pocket presence. When he runs, he looks like a track guy, not a football player. Not that he doesn't show toughness, but he lacks solid running instincts. There are far slower players that show a much better ability to be elusive. Granted, I've watched only a handful of Baylor games this season, but I can't recall a time I've seen Griffin escape a tackle where he was dead to rights.

Just finished watching the Ari-SF game. Skelton's not regarded as a supremely mobile QB but his ability to elude and buy time reminds you of Big Ben. Both would be embarrassed by Griffin in a race but, in the pocket, with a couple guys bearing down, I'd bet on the those two escaping over RGIII every time. Agreed Griffin is a mobile QB with speed. But since the ability to scramble or buy time is connected with pocket presence, I think it is a legitimate question mark for him. In other words, with how easily RGIII is tackled at times, given his elite athletic ability, makes you wonder just how good his ability to buy time in the pocket will be like at the next level.

Perhaps he can dominate as a pocket passer at the next level and make it sort of a mute point but pocket presence is huge factor and hard to evaluate.

I'd rate RG111 pocket presence as one of his strongest points, he moves quickly and decisively around in the pocket and resets himself perfectly to make the throw. You don't have a completion rate like his without escapability and the smarts to reset yourself before throwing the ball.
I cannot for the life of me, figure out how you came to your conclusions. It mystifies me completely????

Big Ben uses his strength and quick feet to beat the pass rush, Shelton, has a long ways to go before he will be effective beating the rush. RG111 doesn't have these guys strength but his feet are far better that Shelton's and on par with a Big Ben or even better.

RG111's intangibles are off the chart and very close to Luck's including pocket presence and that is why he and Barkley will fight it out to go #2 in the draft.

Brown Leader
12-13-2011, 05:45 PM
I didn't watch a ton of Baylor last season. When I did, I was looking for Griffin and was totally underwhelmed at his play, given his stats and the hype about him as an athlete. This season, he's really stepped up his game, and deserved all the awards, but I still see some of what I didn't like last season. From part of an independent scouting report on him from this season per O.S.:

The biggest knock on Griffin is his mechanical and unnatural movement skills within the pocket. Griffin has not shown the natural in-pocket movements that Andrew Luck and Matt Barkley possess, leaving him just outside that top tier of quarterbacks. Now whenever he does decide to break the pocket, there is no other quarterback in college football that accelerates and explodes more quickly to top speed than Griffin. He has improved his pocket feel and footwork from last year to this year, but still has room to grow.

Every elite QB in the league has great pocket presence-the ability to feel the rush and elude it and create more time to throw downfield. Some are incredible at it (Roethlisberger) but even the nonathletic ones (Brady) will make you say, "how was he not sacked there". I don't really see that from Griffin. He does move around and keep his eyes downfield but he's not eluding defenders in tight spaces or finding his way out of sure sacks. It could be that in his spread scheme the ball is out so fast there hardly is a pocket or maby I'm being overly critical on him for having elite level athletically ability and not consistently showing it or maby I'm just grasping at what I see as off about his game.

I brought up Skelton and Ben, a couple of bigger, slower guys, to emphasize that eluding the rush is not simply a matter of quickness. It's an uncanny ability and hard to predict. See Brady-HOfer, maby GOAT. Look at Colt McCoy (back-up :), he was mobile at Texas, but he squirts out of more would be sacks than I ever would've suspected at the pro level. And you must see more of Skelton, he looks strikingly like Big Ben (moving not throwing) when the rush is on. On the flip side, check out Tavares Jackson-all the athletic ability in the world but a train wreck trying to buy time.

ElectricEye
12-13-2011, 05:50 PM
Wow, I can't disagree more with that. I've seen Griffin feel the rush and use his feet to evade it both within and outside the pocket multiple times. It's what separates him from the rest of the passers in this class aside from Luck, even. Really not seeing where that one is coming from. A lot of the big plays for Baylor down the field are the result of that, even.

TACKLE
01-17-2012, 06:59 PM
Strengths:
Outstanding athleticism...Good speed..Can buy time in the pocket and make plays with his feet...Adequate height with the frame to get bigger...Decent arm strength and has a quick release...A team leader...Throws well on the move...Displays nice ball handling skills...Had a great senior year...Still improving and has some upside.

Weaknesses:
Health and durability are concerns...Needs to bulk up and add some weight...Not comfortable in the pocket and is too eager to take off and run..Will have to adjust to a pro style offense after playing in the spread with the *****...Makes too many bad decisions...Poor mechanics & footwork...Accuracy is inconsistent...Much better athlete than quarterback and will need development


A scouting report from a QB currently in the league. Any guesses who? Probably my favorite comparison for RG3 right now as a prospect.

DeepThreat
01-17-2012, 07:01 PM
A scouting report from a QB currently in the league. Any guesses who? Probably my favorite comparison for RG3 right now as a prospect.

I know who.

FUNBUNCHER
01-17-2012, 08:33 PM
He must be a bum because you won't mention his name.