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View Full Version : Dontari Poe, NT/DT, Memphis


bored of education
09-24-2011, 10:53 AM
Dontari is a large man, physical freak, but he plays a bit inconsistent. He has very good hand placement and footwork. His inconsistency lies within him exploding off the ball to high, but he does that vs. weak competition.

He is on the national stage today vs. SMU's spread attack. I would like to see some upfield penetration or occupation of two blockers to open it up for others on the D.

This guy is this years Phil Taylor more than he is Kenrick Ellis(he compares better than Ellis size wise but skillset more Phil), he will have a very solid year of film and will beast it in the pre-draft process and could end up being a 1st rounder. Right now Late 2nd-early 3rd. I don't see him being worse than a 3rd rounder just based upon his size and absolute monstrous strength.

wow lol I was way off added= 02/27/12

Listed at 6'5, 350, I think he is more like 6'4, 330. Power-clean 400 pounds, Bench press 500 pounds, Squat 700. Still a mountain of a man.


Where does he project to play at the next level? He could play NT, 3-4 DE and 4-3 UT/NT. He provides versatility due to his size, footwork, overall skillset.

bored of education
09-24-2011, 11:02 AM
Vs. SMU updates ( I will add some comments on what I see as the game goes on)

ON the first drive, when the Tiger's D was in a 3 man front, he was lined up as a 5 tech commanding a double team still getting good penetration. He is showing low explosion off the ball early, will he keep that up late in to the game? When lined up in a 3 tech spot, he showed a spin move on the inside, interesting. On the touchdown he got sealed pretty well buy the SMU o linemen. he stayed relatively low on that play, though. This SMU O line is all seniors with a lot of experience.

2nd drive: Poe got some very good penetration on the 26 yard play, about .3 seconds late. Memphis runs a lot of 3 man fronts with Poe lined up at 5-tech. SMU is dicing this defense up though. This is not a good team. *note to self* watch more of SMU's Zach Line. Brian Leonhard type of player with ball in his hands. Poe was double teamed on the TD and really didn't do much. This team is not good, am I wasting my time watching this game?

3rd drive: Sack strip by Poe on the first play. Sustained his position after getting off the ball easily while double teamed. Good recognition, ruled incomplete. Memphis with a turnover on the next play. This game could have gotten ugly if SMU scored again.

4th drive: I am adjusting fantasy rosters, so I missed the first play. Memphis with a sack, they are lining up a smaller 4 man front. Poe not in.

Duffman57
09-24-2011, 04:30 PM
The thing with Poe is that its hard for them to put him at the NT spot since they have a guy in DeAngelo McCray whos more of a true NT, so they need him there, but he is quite an athletic big guy and his coach was quoted saying that he would be a top olympic level lifter (their weights coach does coach olympic level lifters). The dude is an absolute freak and is incredibly "Country strong" as most would put it.

I think he could be a monster though in a Combo NT/DE role similar to Haloti Ngata, but with more of an emphasis on the NT position.

bored of education
10-24-2011, 07:08 PM
I really think this guy ends up being a late 1st rounder and at worst drafted in the range of a Linvall Joseph. Big men that can move like this do not grow on trees.

TACKLE
10-24-2011, 07:49 PM
I really think this guy ends up being a late 1st rounder and at worst drafted in the range of a Linvall Joseph. Big men that can move like this do not grow on trees.

And this is why I was hyping him a potential top pick coming into the season. He has prototype physical make up to go along with freakish agility for a man his size. Even if he's still a little raw and a little inconsistent, he's a piece of clay who can be molded into the centerpiece of an NFL defense.

Scott Wright
10-24-2011, 08:06 PM
I'm a big fan of Poe, who will be in the Top 20 of the new mock tomorrow.

ellsy82
10-24-2011, 08:22 PM
Wow...really Scott? I dunno. Incredible talent, and obviously SUPER strong, but has he really done enough to even warrant being drafted when it comes down to it? Comparisons aside...He's not near the football player Ngata was when he came out.

Scott Wright
10-24-2011, 08:26 PM
Wow...really Scott? I dunno. Incredible talent, and obviously SUPER strong, but has he really done enough to even warrant being drafted when it comes down to it? Comparisons aside...He's not near the football player Ngata was when he came out.

I think Poe could be the first defensive tackle off the board.

Rare size and athleticism, can play multiple positions and is scheme diverse, etc.

Also, keep in mind that there isn't a Suh or Dareus in this class and defensive lineman are always in high demand on Draft Day so guys are going to inevitably get pushed upwards.

ellsy82
10-24-2011, 08:33 PM
I think Poe could be the first defensive tackle off the board.

Rare size and athleticism, can play multiple positions and is scheme diverse, etc.

Also, keep in mind that there isn't a Suh or Dareus in this class and defensive lineman are always in high demand on Draft Day so guys are going to inevitably get pushed upwards.

Interesting. You'd rate Worthy, Thompson, and Crick behind Poe? Well, I get Worthy and Crick, but Thompson has been impressive in my opinion. He's the perfect NT in a 4-3, to me, at least. Tomato/tomatoe, I guess.

Scott Wright
10-24-2011, 08:41 PM
Thompson will be a three-technique in a 4-3 or a five technique in a 3-4.

Hines
10-25-2011, 12:58 AM
Love Poe. I could see the Steelers taking him in either the first, or hoping he falls in the second.

RaiderNation
10-25-2011, 01:09 AM
http://www.gifsoup.com/view7/2890728/dontari-poe-size-o.gif

ellsy82
10-25-2011, 05:22 AM
Love Poe. I could see the Steelers taking him in either the first, or hoping he falls in the second.

I would serial murder myself if that happened.

Matthew Jones
10-25-2011, 05:54 AM
I haven't had a chance to see Memphis play this year but Todd McShay has been high on this guy for a while and still has him in his top 32. Interesting that Scott is jumping on the Poe bandwagon as well. I'll have to try and catch a Memphis game this year.

Ozzy
10-25-2011, 08:29 AM
In the grand scheme of things, when it is all said and done, give me Jonathan Hankins or Louis Nix III over Poe in the long term.

In this draft alone Poe has these other three to compete with.


Alameda Ta'amu Washington
Nicolas Jean-Baptiste Baylor
Marcellis Williamson Ohio


But yes, everyone is looking for that stud nose tackle, but really there has yet to be a NT like Vince Wilfork. He is still the standard.

Hines
10-25-2011, 10:00 AM
In the grand scheme of things, when it is all said and done, give me Jonathan Hankins or Louis Nix III over Poe in the long term.

In this draft alone Poe has these other three to compete with.


Alameda Ta'amu Washington
Nicolas Jean-Baptiste Baylor
Marcellis Williamson Ohio


But yes, everyone is looking for that stud nose tackle, but really there has yet to be a NT like Vince Wilfork. He is still the standard.

Marcellis Williamson died....

Scott Wright
10-25-2011, 10:19 AM
I haven't had a chance to see Memphis play this year but Todd McShay has been high on this guy for a while and still has him in his top 32. Interesting that Scott is jumping on the Poe bandwagon as well. I'll have to try and catch a Memphis game this year.

I've been talking about Poe for a little while.

Just last week Shane and I talked about him on the podcast for like ten minutes.

nobodyinparticular
10-29-2011, 10:44 PM
Marcellis Williamson died....

Did they ever release cause of death for him? A super-quick google search turns up nothing.

Scott Wright
10-30-2011, 07:32 PM
Here is a link to my blog entry on Poe in case you missed it:

____________________________________________

Tell-Tale Tiger
http://draftcountdown.com/blog/archive/oct11.php#oct28

____________________________________________

marshallb
10-30-2011, 07:51 PM
Did they ever release cause of death for him? A super-quick google search turns up nothing.

Here's what I found (http://thepost.ohiou.edu/content/father-says-blood-clot-caused-williamsons-death):

The father of a former Ohio University football player who died last week said Sunday his sonís death resulted from a blood clot in his lung.
Marcellis Williamson, 23, died Wednesday night at Euclid Hospital in Euclid, Ohio. Following a Thursday autopsy, a Cuyahoga County Coronerís Office spokesperson said a full toxicology report would be completed before determining the cause of Williamsonís death.
But Williamsonís father, Brian Perkins, said Sunday afternoon that the cause of death was a blood clot in the lung. Perkins said the coronerís office had run a toxicology screening, which came back negative.
The family has planned a wake and funeral service Saturday at Watsonís Funeral Home, located at 10193 Superior Ave. in Cleveland.

ellsy82
11-01-2011, 07:59 PM
This is ridiculous. The guys isn't even in the top 100 in any major category even in a weak conference...He's the definition of a workout warrior. You guys are placing an athlete above a football player. Poe is not worth being drafted, let alone in the first round. Am I missing something here?

TheSlinger
11-01-2011, 08:23 PM
This is ridiculous. The guys isn't even in the top 100 in any major category even in a weak conference...He's the definition of a workout warrior. You guys are placing an athlete above a football player. Poe is not worth being drafted, let alone in the first round. Am I missing something here?

Have you actually watched him play or are you basing the abilities of a defensive tackle, a nose tackle, solely on statistics?

Note: I haven't watched him play either.

ChiFan24
11-01-2011, 08:33 PM
This is ridiculous. The guys isn't even in the top 100 in any major category even in a weak conference...He's the definition of a workout warrior. You guys are placing an athlete above a football player. Poe is not worth being drafted, let alone in the first round. Am I missing something here?

You've been on this board for almost a year and you still think statistics have anything to do with anything?

Ozzy
11-01-2011, 09:55 PM
ellsy82 This is ridiculous. The guys isn't even in the top 100 in any major category even in a weak conference...He's the definition of a workout warrior. You guys are placing an athlete above a football player. Poe is not worth being drafted, let alone in the first round. Am I missing something here?I agree, I have seen Poe play a few games. Basically come away with wow that guy is huge, what he is 6-5 350, maybe he can play NT. Other than that...

Sure he might be able to lift a lot, but Terrence Cody made much more of an impact on the field I believe, and that is sad to say considering Cody barely played because of his conditioning issues. At least when he was in, he made an impact, have yet to see said impact out of Poe.



Haloti Ngata, at this point I do not see anything close to that in Poe. So then one is talking what, a Gabe Watson or Alan Branch type of player?


He is a rare player though, potentially if he is indeed as strong as some say. But like I said before other players in this same class has similar abilities arguably. And sorry about Marcellis Williamson, I did not hear that news, too bad for that young man, he could have been a solid football player potentially at the next level at NT as well.

ellsy82
11-02-2011, 05:15 AM
I agree, I have seen Poe play a few games. Basically come away with wow that guy is huge, what he is 6-5 350, maybe he can play NT. Other than that...

Sure he might be able to lift a lot, but Terrence Cody made much more of an impact on the field I believe, and that is sad to say considering Cody barely played because of his conditioning issues. At least when he was in, he made an impact, have yet to see said impact out of Poe.



Haloti Ngata, at this point I do not see anything close to that in Poe. So then one is talking what, a Gabe Watson or Alan Branch type of player?


He is a rare player though, potentially if he is indeed as strong as some say. But like I said before other players in this same class has similar abilities arguably. And sorry about Marcellis Williamson, I did not hear that news, too bad for that young man, he could have been a solid football player potentially at the next level at NT as well.

You've been on this board for almost a year and you still think statistics have anything to do with anything?

Have you actually watched him play or are you basing the abilities of a defensive tackle, a nose tackle, solely on statistics?

Note: I haven't watched him play either.

No...I do not watch Memphis play on a regular basis...so stats are nearly all I can go buy. I've not watched any video clips because there just aren't any out there on the guy, so the proof isn't in the pudding there. Guys...we're talking about putting this guy as a top 15 pick here. Al Davis is dead (rest in peace), and I CANNOT believe that Houston wouldn't trade back and pick up a guy like Ta'amu if they're THAT desperate for a nose tackle.

A can't be the only guy that believes this. Anyone have any clips that shows how dominant this guy is on the football field? I can see picking him up as a mid-round pick off his strength alone, but a solid early 1st round pick? Crazy...

TACKLE
11-02-2011, 05:50 AM
No...I do not watch Memphis play on a regular basis...so stats are nearly all I can go buy. I've not watched any video clips because there just aren't any out there on the guy, so the proof isn't in the pudding there. Guys...we're talking about putting this guy as a top 15 pick here. Al Davis is dead (rest in peace), and I CANNOT believe that Houston wouldn't trade back and pick up a guy like Ta'amu if they're THAT desperate for a nose tackle.

A can't be the only guy that believes this. Anyone have any clips that shows how dominant this guy is on the football field? I can see picking him up as a mid-round pick off his strength alone, but a solid early 1st round pick? Crazy...

I don't understand...why offer up an opinion at all, especially a strong one, on a guy you've never seen and have basically zero insight or knowledge of?

ellsy82
11-02-2011, 11:36 AM
I don't understand...why offer up an opinion at all, especially a strong one, on a guy you've never seen and have basically zero insight or knowledge of?

Fair enough. Just reminding you of small school stars like Jarron Gilbert or even the cliche of Vernon Gholston when talking about these types of guys. I suppose if I could see more stats like QB pressure and the like (since I'm not gonna watch Memphis play), it would help alleviate some of my concerns about drafting him early. Especially THAT early.

If he's disruptive and collapses the pocket, fine. But I read that he only has 3 QB hurries. If I'm gonna take a top 15 DL...he better be able to get after the QB as well as stop of the run.

bored of education
11-03-2011, 12:05 PM
Fair enough. Just reminding you of small school stars like Jarron Gilbert or even the cliche of Vernon Gholston when talking about these types of guys. I suppose if I could see more stats like QB pressure and the like (since I'm not gonna watch Memphis play), it would help alleviate some of my concerns about drafting him early. Especially THAT early.

If he's disruptive and collapses the pocket, fine. But I read that he only has 3 QB hurries. If I'm gonna take a top 15 DL...he better be able to get after the QB as well as stop of the run.


He has played mostly 3-4 DE with some snaps at 3-4 NT. HOw often do those guys who draw double teams even in college get those numbers? Check the numbers of the Linebackers, who suck, to see his ability. Those number show more than his own numbers. But film shows more than that, so watch the film bro

ellsy82
11-03-2011, 12:59 PM
He has played mostly 3-4 DE with some snaps at 3-4 NT. HOw often do those guys who draw double teams even in college get those numbers? Check the numbers of the Linebackers, who suck, to see his ability. Those number show more than his own numbers. But film shows more than that, so watch the film bro

Wish I could. Can't find any. Would be greatful if anyone would post something...anything.

no bare feet
11-09-2011, 07:12 AM
What position does Dontari project to in a 3-4? What about a 4-3? It seems he is more of a UT and 5 techniquue in those defenses. He could play NT as well, but he is used to penetrate, read and react in his current role at Memphis.

TACKLE
11-09-2011, 08:33 PM
What position does Dontari project to in a 3-4? What about a 4-3? It seems he is more of a UT and 5 techniquue in those defenses. He could play NT as well, but he is used to penetrate, read and react in his current role at Memphis.

I know what you're saying. For a 350 pounder, people assume he's just an interior space eater but he's much more explosive upfield and much more dynamic as a pass rusher than he gets credit for. I know it's not an answer but it really depends on each teams scheme and personnel. As it stands now, he may actually be best as a 5-tech/UT. Though I think if a 3-4 team commits to developing him at the position, with his physical tools, long term he may have the most upside playing nose in the 34.

keylime_5
11-09-2011, 09:33 PM
What position does Dontari project to in a 3-4? What about a 4-3? It seems he is more of a UT and 5 techniquue in those defenses. He could play NT as well, but he is used to penetrate, read and react in his current role at Memphis.

yes, he reminds me of Haloti Ngata in the regard that he is a huge widebody at 350 lbs. but he can move so that he can be used as a 5 tech in a 3-4 or 3 tech in a 4-3.

KaneMarko
12-12-2011, 02:58 PM
yes, he reminds me of Haloti Ngata in the regard that he is a huge widebody at 350 lbs. but he can move so that he can be used as a 5 tech in a 3-4 or 3 tech in a 4-3.

I'm researching Poe now. As a Chiefs fan I can say we are in desperate need of a true dominating NT. We need a QB much more. But I fear the Chiefs may have been just good enough to not be able to get one of the top rated QBs in the draft.

But currently, we have Kelly Gregg playing NT who is also on a one year deal and maybe 3 games from retirement. Outside of that we have 6th round pick Jerrrell Powe from last year's draft. But he's only suited up one game. Which is not good considering he can't get play time when his competition is Kelly Gregg and journeyman Ammon Gordon.

So the Chiefs' need for a NT is there.

My question is how he compares to Alameda Ta'amu, the other huge NT prospect in this draft? Not many Memphis games get televised. So I'm having to rely on the various reports on him. I have seen Ta'amu quite a bit the past few years and think he has some potential. But Poe just seems bigger, stronger and more athletic based on reports. So who rates better and why? How do the intangibles compare?

ellsy82
12-13-2011, 01:03 AM
He has played mostly 3-4 DE with some snaps at 3-4 NT. HOw often do those guys who draw double teams even in college get those numbers? Check the numbers of the Linebackers, who suck, to see his ability. Those number show more than his own numbers. But film shows more than that, so watch the film bro

I've watched him play. He doesn't get doubleteams. Have you watched the games? Seems to me like a guy that is so raw he'll need at least 3 years under a GOOD coach to get to where he needs to be. NOT a first round pick. 3rd round tops.

RWills
12-13-2011, 12:39 PM
He is raw, but they always say you can't teach size. Phillip Taylor and Ron Brace where drafted higher than expected but Taylor looks like a steal at this point. I think he will end up in round one or early round 2. Wouldn't be suprised he moves into top 20 because of his athleticism.

I think he is more of a 5-Tech than a 0-Tech because of his height. Taller players have trouble at the nose becuse of leverage. Ratlif/Hampton/Wilfork/Raji, they are all 0-tech under 6'3. I think Alameda will be more valued at NT while Poe is much more versatile

ellsy82
12-13-2011, 07:17 PM
That's a lot to risk in a first round pick. So you see him as a 4-3 NT? Okay...I can buy that. Potential-wise anyway. I still think its a risky pick for the 3rd round.

But I suppose if a team like Minnesota sees value in drafting him in the second, that already has vested starters at the position, to groom until those starters retire/get injured...I might buy it. Potential through the roof but extremely raw. Still don't like it though.

Its like rating that Williams kid from North Carolina as a 2nd-3rd round pick. Just because of his size (6'3", 320) and athleticism, people see him as a 3rd rounder. He's tagged UDFA in mine. *shrugs*

bored of education
12-22-2011, 06:21 PM
That's a lot to risk in a first round pick. So you see him as a 4-3 NT? Okay...I can buy that. Potential-wise anyway. I still think its a risky pick for the 3rd round.

But I suppose if a team like Minnesota sees value in drafting him in the second, that already has vested starters at the position, to groom until those starters retire/get injured...I might buy it. Potential through the roof but extremely raw. Still don't like it though.

Its like rating that Williams kid from North Carolina as a 2nd-3rd round pick. Just because of his size (6'3", 320) and athleticism, people see him as a 3rd rounder. He's tagged UDFA in mine. *shrugs*

Well he is not just a raw player. He already has a great spin move that guys that big do not have. He plays with leverage, his head up and always looking in the bckfield, he comes out of his stance low. The biggest teaching point is hand placement and arm extension. He has nuances that 3-4 year starters don't have.

Caulibflower
12-22-2011, 07:23 PM
Looking up his strength numbers and watching him in shorts, he looks like a Ngata-type, which is enough for me to be really interested. If the Seahawks can't land a top QB, a freakishly strong and athletic D-lineman who can play the edge or the middle wouldn't be a half-bad compensation. But I'm having a really hard time finding game film of him. Does anyone here have access to that? I'm not having much luck so far on Youtube.

bored of education
12-23-2011, 06:54 PM
Poe has officially declared for the draft. If you wanna see some of his interviews, which to me tell a lot about someone, you can find them all over you tube.

TACKLE
12-23-2011, 07:17 PM
I don't see how Poe isn't the #1 DT in the draft. He doesn't have the stats because he played a lot of nose in a 34 but he played pretty much every position for the Tigers across the dline in both fronts. His tools are off the charts. He's athletic and from a small school so everyone assumes he's very raw but he plays fundamentally sound, with great leverage and has a natural feel for the position that you wouldn't expect. He needs to be a little more violent with his hands but he has the ability to be a special player in the league.

ElectricEye
12-23-2011, 07:25 PM
He should end up as a first rounder. Guys this big and strong don't grow on trees. I'm not sure what position I would put him at in an odd front, but I would be interested in trying him out in that Ngata sort of role at the five technique. That's the best way to make use of his combination of length and strength. He's the type of guy I wish we could get into an All-Star game, given the level of competition he faced week in and week out. Probably a good decision though, he can't really get much better at Memphis.

RaiderNation
12-23-2011, 07:35 PM
Top 20 pick once April comes around, wouldn't be surprised to see him as one of the top overall performers at the combine as well.

ellsy82
12-28-2011, 12:13 AM
Top 20 pick once April comes around, wouldn't be surprised to see him as one of the top overall performers at the combine as well.

LOL. Oh, I'm not saying he WON'T be drafted in the top 20. I'm just staying the team that gets him, is gonna have a project on their hands.

PossibleCabbage
12-28-2011, 01:10 AM
What position does Dontari project to in a 3-4? What about a 4-3? It seems he is more of a UT and 5 techniquue in those defenses. He could play NT as well, but he is used to penetrate, read and react in his current role at Memphis.

Best position for Poe in a 3-4 defense, IMO, is LDE, since odd fronts (at least ones that 2-gap) tend to play heavy opposite the right side of the offensive line (which is where offenses tend to prefer to run the ball). He's a guy you swing inside in certain packages, but I think at 6-5 he's giving up a ton of leverage against centers, so you don't necessarily want him playing full-time at NT if you have a pure nose tackle.

(Ideally you want your 3-4 nose tackles to be in that sub-6'3" range like Casey Hampton, Vince Wilfork, B.J. Raji, Aubrayo Franklin, etc.)

So Poe is what I would term an "NT-type DE" in an odd front. In a perfect world you'd use him kind of like Baltimore uses Ngata, not that I think Poe will be that good.

Caulibflower
12-28-2011, 01:16 AM
Ideally, I think you just stick him somewhere along the line and hope that the offense has to pick one side of him or the other to run. He's huge and incredibly strong, so if he's got even decent technique he ought to at the very least be forcing the offense to take account of him on all running plays, and if he can turn that strength into a legitimate bullrush, he'll be pushing the pocket back and helping his defensive ends. He doesn't have to be a flashy playmaker - he just has to play up to his size and strength. Those alone are what make him a potential first-round pick; if he develops his athleticism into football skill, you've potentially got an elite all-around lineman. And I'm still trying to find some decent footage of him. I've managed to find some tape of other Memphis players where you can see him, but it was when he was a freshman. He mostly just looks huge, but you can tell offensive lineman were having a hard time moving him even then. Three years in a college weight room is going to do nothing but help him, and he's got a reputation as a beast in there.

Matthew Jones
12-28-2011, 01:44 AM
Best position for Poe in a 3-4 defense, IMO, is LDE, since odd fronts (at least ones that 2-gap) tend to play heavy opposite the right side of the offensive line (which is where offenses tend to prefer to run the ball). He's a guy you swing inside in certain packages, but I think at 6-5 he's giving up a ton of leverage against centers, so you don't necessarily want him playing full-time at NT if you have a pure nose tackle.

(Ideally you want your 3-4 nose tackles to be in that sub-6'3" range like Casey Hampton, Vince Wilfork, B.J. Raji, Aubrayo Franklin, etc.)

So Poe is what I would term an "NT-type DE" in an odd front. In a perfect world you'd use him kind of like Baltimore uses Ngata, not that I think Poe will be that good.

Nice analysis; Poe does seem like more of a 3-4 defensive end than a nose tackle. Poe does not play like a nose tackle despite his size and strength; critical nose tackle skills are not evident in his game. Poe's height has thus far prevented him from playing with a pad level low enough to anchor against the run and he was knocked off balance a number of times by significantly smaller offensive linemen during my review (@ Arkansas St. and @ Middle Tennessee St.) Poe's awareness of the ballcarrier is lackluster to say the least; often he winds up out of position to prevent ballcarriers from crossing the line of scrimmage. Nowhere near the prospect Alameda Ta'amu is; Poe's ceiling is higher but he is very much a boom-or-bust player who is being severely overrated because of his freakish physical tools. Poe could certainly blossom into an intimidating defensive lineman with time and quality coaching but that would probably be a gamble for another team to take. 6'5", 350 pound defensive tackles with strength are supposed to dominate against low-level competition and Poe disappeared for long stretches of both games and failed to make his presence felt like a first-round pick should.

Matthew Jones
12-28-2011, 02:01 AM
Also worth noting that Poe played a lot of defensive end in 3-4 alignments rather than lining up on the nose; extremely awkward technique and painfully slow off the ball at times.

D-Unit
12-28-2011, 01:02 PM
Why doesn't this guy have a youtube highlight clilp?

Caulibflower
12-28-2011, 01:42 PM
Just watched some Alameda Ta'amu tape... he looks awesome. HUGE. And is often the first one off the snap. Has an explosive first step and just knocks offensive linemen backwards. He makes them actually look kind of helpless, and it's all they can do just to redirect his momentum, nevermind moving him out of a running lane. So until I can find some film of Poe, I'm going with Ta'amu, because he actually looks like Ngata on film. Washington played him at some DE, too.

RaiderNation
12-28-2011, 01:53 PM
I'm starting to like Ta'amu much more, and I think he can come in and contribute to a team right away. Poe will take a season or 2 before he can become a real force inside.

onejayhawk
12-28-2011, 02:15 PM
I could definitely see him as a 3-4 DE. I could also see him as a 4-3 DT, a la Phil Taylor.

J

KaneMarko
01-01-2012, 02:03 PM
IDK. I just like Ta'amu more. He just seems a lot more polished and I like his demeanor more when I listen to interviews. Poe of course has better measurables. But Ta'amu once played at 360+ pounds although Poe is taller and seems to have more reach.

As a Chiefs fan I want to go after a NT. Personally I just think Ta'amu is the better of the two prospects. Now granted I've watched a lot of Huskie games since Ta'amu's sophomore year and Memphis games hardly ever get televised.

But right now, I like Ta'amu more.

EvilNixon
01-01-2012, 02:12 PM
He is as strong as they say.....TRUST ME. I've seen it with my own two eyes.

SenorGato
01-02-2012, 04:01 AM
IDK. I just like Ta'amu more. He just seems a lot more polished and I like his demeanor more when I listen to interviews. Poe of course has better measurables. But Ta'amu once played at 360+ pounds although Poe is taller and seems to have more reach.

As a Chiefs fan I want to go after a NT. Personally I just think Ta'amu is the better of the two prospects. Now granted I've watched a lot of Huskie games since Ta'amu's sophomore year and Memphis games hardly ever get televised.

But right now, I like Ta'amu more.

If I'm picking a NT between the two then yeah I'd go Ta'amu. Otherwise, if Poe measures up then I'd go Poe.

JBCX
01-02-2012, 02:25 PM
Does Poe have any pass-rush potential?

Or is he purely a space-eating run-plugger?

ellsy82
01-02-2012, 04:48 PM
If I'm picking a NT between the two then yeah I'd go Ta'amu. Otherwise, if Poe measures up then I'd go Poe.

I'd take Chapman over both of them.

KaneMarko
01-04-2012, 10:55 AM
Chapman is another one I like. He's not 340+, but he looks pretty stout at the point of attack.

bored of education
02-03-2012, 08:03 PM
I think Poe is most versatile defensive linemen in the draft since Suh. Poe can play a zero tech, 3 tech, 5 tech and even 1 tech. He can two gap and one gap in any front. His versatility may be viewed as a weakness since he has no true position yet I think they gives him greater value. Think Phil Taylor and Kenrick Ellis mixed. He may be best used in a 3-4 DE 2 gapping role but with proper coaching he can play NT in a 4-3 or 3-4. He can anchor, shoot the gaps, stay disciplined for his gaps. That is just a glimpse as to why I have him as a top 15 pick.

thegreatone
02-03-2012, 10:50 PM
Would love him on the Ravens.

A d-line consisting of Ngata, Cody and Poe would eat o-lines.

villagewarrior
02-03-2012, 11:41 PM
If anyone knows where to find some film on this guy I'd like to see it. Dude seems pretty inconsistent from what I've read, but the potential seems out of this world. I'm liking Ta'amu based on the Senior Bowl and whatnot.

coordinator0
02-03-2012, 11:44 PM
Would love him on the Ravens.

A d-line consisting of Ngata, Cody and Poe would eat o-lines.

We need a one-gap DE, not a two-gap guy like Poe. Sure we'd have size but it's not like our DL isn't already adept at what Poe would bring to the team. It would be a wasted pick in my opinion.

PossibleCabbage
02-04-2012, 01:00 AM
We need a one-gap DE, not a two-gap guy like Poe. Sure we'd have size but it's not like our DL isn't already adept at what Poe would bring to the team. It would be a wasted pick in my opinion.

Yeah, Poe is (IMO) a poor man's Ngata... there's not really a compelling reason to pick him up when you have the actual Ngata.

I don't like Poe playing on the same DL as Ngata for the same reason I didn't like Fairley playing on the same line as Suh. Two guys with too similar skillsets, and similar shortcomings.

ellsy82
02-04-2012, 02:36 AM
Yeah, Poe is (IMO) a poor man's Ngata... there's not really a compelling reason to pick him up when you have the actual Ngata.

I don't like Poe playing on the same DL as Ngata for the same reason I didn't like Fairley playing on the same line as Suh. Two guys with too similar skillsets, and similar shortcomings.

I agree with you in the fact that Poe is a poor man's Ngata. Neither the strength, versatility or athleticism that Ngata has. Are you freaking kidding me? I'm not personally attacking you, but what tape have you watched that would make you think that that Poe has any semblance of athleticism compared to Ngata? I'd really like to watch that game. The most I've seen from him (and I'll admit, I've been critical of him since Shane first brought him up), he's nothing more than a 6th round 3-4 defense end or 4th round 4-3 undertackle.

ellsy82
02-04-2012, 02:58 AM
Yeah, Poe is (IMO) a poor man's Ngata... there's not really a compelling reason to pick him up when you have the actual Ngata.

I don't like Poe playing on the same DL as Ngata for the same reason I didn't like Fairley playing on the same line as Suh. Two guys with too similar skillsets, and similar shortcomings.

Sorry...I just attacked when I should have paid attention. Poe doesn't impress me, that much is obvious. But I shouldn't have gone off on you life that. Again, I apologize.

Iamcanadian
02-04-2012, 06:22 AM
Poe is a classic NT who will have to show at the combine that he can play with the big boys. On film, he is a late 1st rounder, early second rounder but with a huge upside. If he can dominate at the Combine, he will rapidly move up draft boards with top 20 potential. This is the case for all prospects who didn't play for a serious Div 1 school. The combine is where they show their worth.
I believe in the end, he will go top 20 but it is just a projection at this stage in the draft process.

indyfan1985
02-05-2012, 12:17 PM
Colts are gonna target him. They need their Haloti Ngata of their defense. Not saying Poe will be quite as good as Ngata though.

PossibleCabbage
02-05-2012, 12:35 PM
Poe is a classic NT who will have to show at the combine that he can play with the big boys.

4-3 NT? Sure, Poe is a prototype there. 3-4 NT? He's not really a prototype, since you don't really see 6-5 guys doing well at NT in an odd front. In the 0-technique slot, you really can't give up as much in terms of leverage as you can when you actually line up in a gap.

"Classic NTs" in an odd front are shorter guys like Wilfork, Hampton, Raji, etc.

bored of education
02-27-2012, 06:52 PM
I know there is a newer thread but lets put some of the intelligent poster's of SWDC's abilities in perspective. Some smart men in here, not including myself

Ozzy
02-28-2012, 04:35 PM
So what are the thoughts about his combine performance?

Dontari Poe

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nfl-shutdown-corner/combine-notes-dontari-poe-runs-unofficial-4-87-175608498.html


6-4 346
40 time: 4.98
225 bench: 44 times


Very good numbers for the kid, great numbers but do not be fooled by that bench result, Stephen Paea of Oregon State got 49 last year which is the combine record and did not even play much on the Bears as a rookie.

Great to have a strong kid but does not tell all, and the bench press has more to do with your arm length really, long arm kids never do as well because they have higher to go to straighten out their elbow.

2010 Games started 12/12 UT 21 TT 41, FF 3, TFL 6.5, Sacks 2

2011 Games Started 12/12 UT 18 TT 33, FF 1, TFL 8.0, Sacks 1


These are his statistics the past two seasons on an awful Memphis football team. I wanted the kid, loved his size and everything but nothing elite I did not think. His combine numbers are elite though, makes him elite physically and just seems to big and athletic, not really just large and fat.

Hard to judge him I think, would need to see more game tape of him, but then again now a days with 3/4 defensive teams, all they want is a plug in the middle with size. He can do that.


But let us be honest, he will never be a Vince Wilfork type of NT in the NFL. He is just not that productive and does not have that type of ability I feel.

Good player but even to say he will be as good as Ngata is a big time stretch I feel, Ngata was a playmaker coming out of Oregon, not sure Poe is like that just yet.

Tough call though....

zachsaints52
02-28-2012, 05:02 PM
He looked nimble during the DL drills as well.

Ozzy
02-28-2012, 05:17 PM
zachsaints52 He looked nimble during the DL drills as well.I am just curious why he was not more impactful at the college level. If he is such a fine athlete for a man his size, which he is, why did he not play like it in college. Coaching? Maybe but any D1 defensive line football coach knows what they are talking about and knows how to teach players moves from a pass rush and run support standpoint. Why did he not play like that at that level, and sure Memphis had an awful team, but they also played some awful competition. He should have man handled those players against those weaker teams.

What is the only question I have. Terrence Cody for example who is a much worse athlete and was clearly out of shape at Alabama made more of an impact against greater competition arguably at times than Poe did against lesser competition at times. Is that all due to scheme and coaching? Who knows....maybe a little bit of both but cannot always blame poor play with bad coaching.

toonsterwu
02-28-2012, 05:21 PM
I think Poe will be better than this, but I can see him rising in the same way Dewayne Robertson rose his year. There's some similarities between their draft backgrounds (not style of play, just a guy who wasn't as impactful as desired, but had tools that always had people curious, and a big time combine).

Now, in Poe's favor is that I think he's more scheme versatile. He isn't just a fat guy you have to put on the nose.

Taber21
02-28-2012, 07:11 PM
I know Poe to KC has been mocked dozens of times on here even before his terrific combine performance. My question is do you think KC, or any team picking in that range, would be willing/wise to move up to the 7-9 range to take him?

FUNBUNCHER
02-28-2012, 09:32 PM
For a player who's faster, bigger and stronger than Ndamukong Suh, yet unable to DOMINATE C-USA tells me that Poe is less than advertised.

Maybe he's raw, maybe he's just not that good a football player.
His measurables are once-in-a-generation, but his production is less than average which is a huge problem IMO.

22 total tackles and 1 sack over 12 games in 2011 against the Middle Tennessees and Austin Peays of the football world is garbage.

Yeah, they're just stats. But the numbers are terrible.
For the most physically gifted interior Dlineman in this draft, I don't know how you can just ignore them.

vidae
02-28-2012, 09:51 PM
I think it'll take some great coaching to get Poe to play up to his potential, but make no mistake about it, I think he can get there.

Ozzy
02-28-2012, 10:24 PM
FUNBUNCHER

For a player who's faster, bigger and stronger than Ndamukong Suh, yet unable to DOMINATE C-USA tells me that Poe is less than advertised.

Maybe he's raw, maybe he's just not that good a football player.
His measurables are once-in-a-generation, but his production is less than average which is a huge problem IMO.

22 total tackles and 1 sack over 12 games in 2011 against the Middle Tennessees and Austin Peays of the football world is garbage.

Yeah, they're just stats. But the numbers are terrible.
For the most physically gifted interior Dlineman in this draft, I don't know how you can just ignore them.Completely agree with everything you said!

That lack of production against such poor competition is a big issue. Might just be a workout warrior and that is all.

Since he is clearly a great athlete, two possible reasons why he did not play great, a lack in technique and or coaching/ or lack in passion, work ethic and intensity on the field.

Again like I said before, my bet it could be more internal than external. But who knows, will have to wait and see.

BamaFalcon59
02-28-2012, 11:12 PM
Shortest arms among all defensive tackle (tied with Crick), and better than only three defensive ends.

H.O.O.D
03-01-2012, 11:10 AM
Shortest arms among all defensive tackle (tied with Crick), and better than only three defensive ends.

FWIW BJ Raji also had the same arm length.

gpngc
03-01-2012, 11:17 AM
Completely agree with everything you said!

That lack of production against such poor competition is a big issue. Might just be a workout warrior and that is all.

Since he is clearly a great athlete, two possible reasons why he did not play great, a lack in technique and or coaching/ or lack in passion, work ethic and intensity on the field.

Again like I said before, my bet it could be more internal than external. But who knows, will have to wait and see.

Agree with both of you.

But we don't need to speculate. His technique and balance are poor. His hands aren't good (part of that is his short arms). And somehow for a gigantic athletic freak, he's just not that physical.

There's a lot of potential and a lot to work with but he could bust quite easily.

Caulibflower
03-04-2012, 01:30 AM
Found some video, finally.

g0IaNI-3sw4

Caulibflower
03-04-2012, 01:44 AM
He's not impressive at all on film.

Matthew Jones
03-04-2012, 01:44 AM
He's not impressive at all on film.

Thank you! Hopefully everyone is starting to realize this.

vidae
03-04-2012, 10:53 AM
You're all going to be eating a lot of crow.

Matthew Jones
03-04-2012, 11:01 AM
You're all going to be eating a lot of crow.

It's not like Poe magically acquired his size, strength, and athletic ability during the pre-draft process, so it's fair to wonder why a massive man with his physical abilities was mainly a non-factor against a bunch of scrubs who are never going to have a cup of coffee with an NFL club. It doesn't take much imagination to see why he could be successful at some point, but he has an incredibly long way to go before he can be considered anything more than a potentially disruptive player. His floor is among the lowest in the class based on what he's done so far, and many of the teams which could be targeting him high in the draft are picking in those early spots because they have done a poor job of evaluating and/or developing talent in the past. There's certainly a spot in the first round for a guy like Poe, but if you asked me to identify the best players in the draft right now based on their play in college, he's not even close to some of the other defensive tackles.

SolidGold
03-04-2012, 11:16 AM
Could he be this year's workout warrior? I tend to agree with those who have said having those measurables and playing against lower levels of competition he should have been dominant. For comparison's sake his senior year numbers were not much more than those compiled by Jared Crick - who only played 5 games this season.

Roddoliver
03-04-2012, 01:58 PM
He looked good in shorts, but did not look that good on the field, playing against weak competition.

PossibleCabbage
03-04-2012, 02:07 PM
He looked good in shorts, but did not look that good on the field, playing against weak competition.

That Memphis team he played on was pretty bad though. It's not like he had a lot of help.

I mean, they finished 2-10 in Conference USA, that has more to do with 21 other starters than it does to Poe.

vidae
03-04-2012, 03:07 PM
Nah, it is all on Poe. I mean, look at how athletic he is!

SolidGold
03-04-2012, 03:29 PM
That Memphis team he played on was pretty bad though. It's not like he had a lot of help.

I mean, they finished 2-10 in Conference USA, that has more to do with 21 other starters than it does to Poe.

I know they play two different positions but Kuechly was on a pretty bad team and he was still able to perform/produce at a top notch level vs better competition than Poe.

TACKLE
03-04-2012, 03:38 PM
I know they play two different positions but Kuechly was on a pretty bad team and he was still able to perform/produce at a top notch level vs better competition than Poe.

Sidebar: This in no way is meant to knock Luke but that's a flawed argument. It's very common to see LB's on bad teams rack up tackles because the guys up front aren't making plays and the defense funnels to the MLB who gets a who bunch of tackles 5-6 yards down the field.

Nebula
03-04-2012, 04:06 PM
Hate seeing Poe being described as a top 10 pick. I don't think people who believe that realize just how unproductive he's going to be, at least early on in his NFL career

He is extremely raw and not very instinctive. He's a guy who plays with no leverage, doesn't use his hands with proper technique, plays short-armed, will put his head down at times, takes himself out of plays, and struggles to locate the football. A man of his talent playing the level of competition that he did should NOT be getting sealed out from plays, having an average motor, and not being overly productive.

He has loads of upside, but he is not nor should be a top 10 pick at this stage. If he is, thats a ton of pressure on a young man and will fail to meet expectations early on

PossibleCabbage
03-04-2012, 04:09 PM
Sidebar: This in no way is meant to knock Luke but that's a flawed argument. It's very common to see LB's on bad teams rack up tackles because the guys up front aren't making plays and the defense funnels to the MLB who gets a who bunch of tackles 5-6 yards down the field.

That, and defensive tackles (even really good ones) don't rack up the stats anyway.

descendency
03-04-2012, 04:10 PM
I wonder how instinctive people think you need to be to play NT. . .

gpngc
03-04-2012, 04:17 PM
I wonder how instinctive people think you need to be to play NT. . .

He's not a natural NT. That's another issue.

You need to have a killer instinct, or at least enjoy being physical at the point, and be able to keep your technique, leverage, and balance while battling intensely.

He wasn't very consistent at doing that at Memphis.

Two things will define his NFL career:

1) His willingness to put in the hard work to learn how to play DL in the NFL

2) The effectiveness of his coaches/position coaches/veteran teammates.

How that translates to where he'll be drafted is anyone's guess. He's got a lot of pure physical talent. His interviews were likely crucial. I personally don't like prospects who don't have good film, especially if they are clearly more gifted than the competition.

Nebula
03-04-2012, 04:18 PM
I wonder how instinctive people think you need to be to play NT. . .

Definitely when you're playing as that coveted 1/3 tech in which Poe is being highly regarded for his versatility in that aspect. I don't only mean lack of instincts necessarily with his diagnosis skills, but also being able to locate the ball and not take yourself out of plays. However, with more experience he should improve in this area. But just a growing number of reasons why, despite his impressive combine, he shouldn't be in the discussion as top 10 talent in this draft. Hell, I think he even was #3 on a big board recently on this site

villagewarrior
03-04-2012, 04:38 PM
I wonder how instinctive people think you need to be to play NT. . .

Having good instincts is essential in the trenches. Watching tape can help pick nuances of an opponent, but there are ways a guy leans on you, how he punches and steps and so on that instinctive players are able to pick, and it makes them a hair quicker than less instinctive players. Instincts are often the biggest difference between the best players and the merely good ones.

Caulibflower
03-04-2012, 05:43 PM
He's the defensive version of Bruce Campbell.

PossibleCabbage
03-04-2012, 06:50 PM
He's the defensive version of Bruce Campbell.

The thing is? The defensive version of Bruce Campbell can be a great player. Playing offense, particularly offensive line, is about technique and precision. Playing defense, particularly defensive line, one can do a lot with physicality and effort until technique catches up with you.

Other than quarterbacks, offensive tackles are probably the position that needs to be most consistent in assignments an execution, defensive tackles are quite possibly the position that needs to be least consistent about assignments and execution.

Wasn't Jason Pierre-Paul the defensive version of Bruce Campbell, anyway?

vidae
03-04-2012, 07:27 PM
He's the defensive version of Bruce Campbell.

Oh come on. You cannot be serious with this now.

I guess I shouldn't be surprised. This happens EVERY YEAR after the combine, but rein it in a bit. That is ridiculous.

FUNBUNCHER
03-04-2012, 09:07 PM
defensive tackles are quite possibly the position that needs to be least consistent about assignments and execution.



http://multimedia.heraldinteractive.com/images/20111108/c6b2fc_ltp09011102patsms17.jpg
http://blackathlete.net/artman2/uploads/2/albert_haynesworth--300x300.jpg

Caulibflower
03-04-2012, 09:25 PM
Oh come on. You cannot be serious with this now.

I guess I shouldn't be surprised. This happens EVERY YEAR after the combine, but rein it in a bit. That is ridiculous.

Huge, athletic prospects that test through the roof but fail to dominate mediocre competition? What do you like about him besides his measurables?

bored of education
03-05-2012, 06:12 PM
Tony Pauline has heard from pro scouts that some teams have Poe as number 3 overall on there boards

SchizophrenicBatman
03-05-2012, 06:29 PM
Zombie Al Davis is running a franchise?

gpngc
03-06-2012, 12:54 AM
https://twitter.com/#!/RUSSLANDE

After finishing film evaluation of Memphis Dontari Poe it seems clear to me that he is much more of a big 3 tech DT than a true NT.

Memphis DT D. Poe does not play like an elite talent on film often enough & reminds me of former 1st Rd Picks Ryan Sims & Jimmy Kennedy.

@evilmiamimonkey - I do not know about under-achieving. I think rather he tests out as a better athlete than he is on football field.

Poe seems more comfortable using quicks to attacks gaps & penetrate. Doesn't play like a true 2-gap, run stuffing clogger

Poe probably would fit best as a 5 tech DE in a 34 like San Diego or Pittsburgh plays, not in KC's 34 scheme as well though.

@SteelPerch - Poe does not remind of Red Bryant as Bryant is a big, strong DL who excels anchoring the POA & uses long arms to make plays.

I agree with all of it.

And I doubt KC or PIT drafts him. He's not a natural NT.

Matthew Jones
03-06-2012, 01:14 AM
I'm in agreement on Poe not being a natural nose tackle; he's more effective trying to penetrate than anchoring because he has no balance and no concept of leverage. He gets controlled easily at times by much smaller opponents because he's so tall and upright on the field. The picture posted on the previous page of Albert Haynesworth is actually more relevant than expected because Haynesworth is around the same size as Poe and functioned primarily as an under tackle during his career as well. Not many 3-4 nose tackles in the NFL are as tall as Poe because a stout frame makes it easier to get leverage; Poe needs to figure out how to consistently get under defenders to win in the NFL and it's fair to ask why he hasn't been able to by this point. Yes, NFL coaches are more capable than coaches at the lower levels, but it's not like Poe is some kind of alien being who has never heard of football; he's been doing this for years and he still hasn't figured out how to dominate despite significant physical advantages. The pro game is primarily focused on evaluating and integrating talent rather than developing it.

onejayhawk
03-06-2012, 06:58 AM
https://twitter.com/#!/RUSSLANDE

I agree with all of it.

And I doubt KC or PIT drafts him. He's not a natural NT.

Pitt would. He is a natural 3-4 DE, and they can use one. The Chiefs are stacked at DE.

J

bitonti
03-06-2012, 09:01 AM
Poe haters are missing the point. nose tackles don't produce stats... at any level. look at Haloti Ngata's stats the guy gets 3 sacks a year maybe. the role is to occupy, table set and let the LB free to make plays. He's a borderline top 10 selection and he deserves it. where does he fit in a defense? like the 400 pound gorilla he goes wherever he wants. 0 tech, 1 tech, 3 tech, 5 tech. He can get reps at a variety of positions.

ellsy82
03-06-2012, 10:10 AM
Pitt would. He is a natural 3-4 DE, and they can use one. The Chiefs are stacked at DE.

J

Pitt isn't stacked at 3-4 DE's?

ellsy82
03-06-2012, 10:11 AM
Poe haters are missing the point. nose tackles don't produce stats... at any level. look at Haloti Ngata's stats the guy gets 3 sacks a year maybe. the role is to occupy, table set and let the LB free to make plays. He's a borderline top 10 selection and he deserves it. where does he fit in a defense? like the 400 pound gorilla he goes wherever he wants. 0 tech, 1 tech, 3 tech, 5 tech. He can get reps at a variety of positions.

Yep...they don't produce stats. Look at the damn tape though. With his size, and athleticism, he should be commanding triple teams...he doesn't even get a double on any semblance of a consistent basis.

vidae
03-06-2012, 10:15 AM
Did you watch Memphis games? He was double and triple teamed a LOT last year.

PossibleCabbage
03-06-2012, 10:32 AM
http://multimedia.heraldinteractive.com/images/20111108/c6b2fc_ltp09011102patsms17.jpg
http://blackathlete.net/artman2/uploads/2/albert_haynesworth--300x300.jpg

At DT you don't have to be "on" all of the time, but you do have to be "on" some of the time.

FUNBUNCHER
03-06-2012, 11:33 AM
Did you watch Memphis games? He was double and triple teamed a LOT last year.
By 275-290# Olineman.

His measurables I guess you could argue warrant Poe being drafted in the first, but no way top 10.

If I had to draft pure spec on a prospect who has little game film to justify being taken high in the first round, I'd go for a guy like WR Stephen Hill over Poe.

I can see Poe never developing into a good to elite player and end up being a reserve for much of his career.

Miss St. DT Fletcher Cox should be the first interior DLineman taken. He's a genuine top 10-15 talent and his combine numbers were absurd.

I just can't get past the fact the Poe didn't have ONE outright dominant game in C-USA.

Ndamukong Suh was consistently double and triple teamed at Nebraska and was still virtually unstoppable in college. In the pros he had an awesome rookie year, but even a high motor guy like Suh has discovered he doesn't have the tools to physically overpower NFL Olineman on every single play.

I doubt Poe can be productive anywhere in the pros EXCEPT NT. A guy who clogs the middle in the run game and occasionally forces a chip block from the guard.

Warren Sapp said on NFLN he'd love to coach a guy like Dontari Poe and try to tap his freakish potential, but I don't think you can put fire in the heart of an athlete if it isn't already there.
I just don't think Poe has it.

Poe's game film is 7th rounder/UDFA.
His combine is top 5 talent.

That makes his real value IMO no earlier than the 4th round.


When is the last time a JAG player at a mid major school became a pro bowl talent in the NFL???

gpngc
03-06-2012, 11:39 AM
Poe haters are missing the point. nose tackles don't produce stats... at any level. look at Haloti Ngata's stats the guy gets 3 sacks a year maybe. the role is to occupy, table set and let the LB free to make plays. He's a borderline top 10 selection and he deserves it. where does he fit in a defense? like the 400 pound gorilla he goes wherever he wants. 0 tech, 1 tech, 3 tech, 5 tech. He can get reps at a variety of positions.

He didn't do that at freaking Memphis.

No one is talking about stats. Watch just a little tape (I watched just two games), and you'll get what Lande and his critics on this site are talking about.

And I know this is a point that FUNBUNCH is driving home to argue his stance, but I'm curious to know if anyone can come up with an answer...

When is the last time a JAG player at a mid major school became a pro bowl talent in the NFL???

Anyone?

Shane P. Hallam
03-06-2012, 11:42 AM
Poe's game film is 7th rounder/UDFA.
His combine is top 5 talent.


Well, that is untrue. He's not Haloti Ngata on film, but the evidence is there. Heck, he played DE more than DT in college and was out of position. He's not a penetrator, even at his size and speed, pass rush isn't his forte. But he DOES eat up space and looks like a 1st round nose tackle on film IMO of the 5 games I have seen.

bitonti
03-06-2012, 12:52 PM
also keep in mind that every NFL Coach believes he can coach up a raw lump of clay and transform him into a great player. For example Jason Pierre Paul it would have been very easy to say JPP does backflips but has very little production in the Big east. And many teams did say that. JPP had 6.5 sacks in his Big East career, fact. is that worse than 5 career sacks for a DT? Considering the positional difference it might be...

Poe is like the JPP of DT. to run a 4.8 and put up 44 at 350 that's not just rare it's once in a generation. I've never heard of a DT put up those raw numbers. No one has heard of that size/speed/strength combo, cause it doesn't happen.

I don't care if he spent his Memphis career in the stands, drinking beer and waving a foamy number one hand. He's going to be drafted high and the planet theory says it's deserved.

Shane P. Hallam
03-06-2012, 01:06 PM
Anyone?

Well, Gene Smith took the job in 09, so only 3 drafts down, it is tough to get Pro Bowlers out of that.

And the answer would be David Garrard, unless ECU isn't small enough...

gpngc
03-06-2012, 01:08 PM
Well, Gene Smith took the job in 09, so only 3 drafts down, it is tough to get Pro Bowlers out of that.

And the answer would be David Garrard, unless ECU isn't small enough...

Sorry. JAG = Just A Guy. In other words, not much production and/or didn't jump out on film.

Shane P. Hallam
03-06-2012, 01:21 PM
Sorry. JAG = Just A Guy. In other words, not much production and/or didn't jump out on film.

What other caveats are there? Does he have to be a first round player? If so, he wasn't a "JAG." Poe jumps out on film, he pops out if you are browsing a Memphis game. Once again, he played more DE in the tape I watched than DT. Doesn't help you evaluate him as a NT as much. It also doesn't help your production being a 350 pound DE, but they had NO pass rush around him and placed him in situations where they felt he could get to the passer.

So, you have a guy playing out of position, asked to rush the passer at 350 pounds, and getting double teams most of the time. Tough to be successful or even play like a NT in those situations.

Look at the SMU game, there were apparent line calls to move plays away from Poe in the run game (and the pass game). Zach Line barely had to deal with Poe in the game.

Does that mean he will be successful in the NFL? No, but it is like Cam Newton last year. There is so much UNKNOWN about Poe. But you look at the measureables and there is a lot of potential there to be a mix of every type of defensive lineman.

gpngc
03-06-2012, 01:32 PM
What other caveats are there? Does he have to be a first round player? If so, he wasn't a "JAG." Poe jumps out on film, he pops out if you are browsing a Memphis game. Once again, he played more DE in the tape I watched than DT. Doesn't help you evaluate him as a NT as much. It also doesn't help your production being a 350 pound DE, but they had NO pass rush around him and placed him in situations where they felt he could get to the passer.

So, you have a guy playing out of position, asked to rush the passer at 350 pounds, and getting double teams most of the time. Tough to be successful or even play like a NT in those situations.

Look at the SMU game, there were apparent line calls to move plays away from Poe in the run game (and the pass game). Zach Line barely had to deal with Poe in the game.

Does that mean he will be successful in the NFL? No, but it is like Cam Newton last year. There is so much UNKNOWN about Poe. But you look at the measureables and there is a lot of potential there to be a mix of every type of defensive lineman.

I agree with what you're saying. I don't like unknown that high in the draft though. Cam Newton stood out on film and showed incredible talent in terms of his QB-specific skills. And he was also an awesome athlete.

Poe, from what we know, is an awesome athlete and decent football player with no positional fit in the NFL. He plays like a UT on film. No one is taking the 350-pound Poe to play UT in the NFL.

I'd much rather take a guy who has shown the ability to play the position he is projected to in the NFL at a high level in college. And there are plenty of those guys available where Poe is projected to go.

The fact is, he played DE in college, against fairly weak competition (not close to what he'll see in the NFL), and showed limited/inconsistent football-specific defensive lineman skills. Hands, leverage, balance, technique in general.

Shane P. Hallam
03-06-2012, 01:34 PM
The fact is, he played DE in college, against fairly weak competition (not close to what he'll see in the NFL), and showed limited/inconsistent football-specific defensive lineman skills. Hands, leverage, balance, technique in general.

Whether he succeeds or not, I am with Matt in saying I saw this exact same argument word for word against JPP (heck, I made it against JPP,) and I was wrong. Could be the same way with Poe, could not.

AntoinCD
03-06-2012, 01:46 PM
Poe haters are missing the point. nose tackles don't produce stats... at any level. look at Haloti Ngata's stats the guy gets 3 sacks a year maybe. the role is to occupy, table set and let the LB free to make plays. He's a borderline top 10 selection and he deserves it. where does he fit in a defense? like the 400 pound gorilla he goes wherever he wants. 0 tech, 1 tech, 3 tech, 5 tech. He can get reps at a variety of positions.

The issue with Poe is though he doesn't play with consistent enough leverage to just be a guy who occupies while the LBs are free. I don't put it all down to him. After watching a few tapes I can honestly say the coaches at Memphis shouldn't be allowed to coach. This guy should have been plugged in the middle of the defense to do as you said. However I counted numerous times watching him play where he ran the arc as a pass rusher. I don't care how fast the guy is he is 350lbs and should be in the middle blowing things up, not running outside around OTs.

gpngc
03-06-2012, 01:47 PM
Whether he succeeds or not, I am with Matt in saying I saw this exact same argument word for word against JPP (heck, I made it against JPP,) and I was wrong. Could be the same way with Poe, could not.

A similar argument could have been made - no doubt.

And JPP is an UNBELIEVABLE story when you think about it.

Two differences:

1) JPP didn't have a physical limitation like Poe's short arms. Arm length is very important for defensive lineman. JPP had a crazy wingspan. For all the combine hype Poe got, I fear that the revealing of his short arms may actually end up as the most telling (it does help me understand partially why his film isn't as impressive against weaker comp. as his H/W/S/S #s would suggest.

2) The position difference. JPP is STILL learning how to play with leverage in the run game. Poe played a lot of spread offenses and was out of position. He lacks a true position because of it. Maybe he'll find one, but I just don't know what it is. JPP, even when he was raw just playing 'chase the QB' at USF, was ALWAYS a 4-3 RE through-and-through. Poe's transition to the NFL will be more difficult.

So while I do agree that a SIMILAR argument could have been made against JPP years ago, I think this one is in fact, different. And I personally thought JPP would be great - although part of that was the team he was drafted to. My thing with Poe isn't "HE SUCKS HES GONNA BUST!" I just think there are too many unknowns and question marks to draft him over guys who have developed football-specific position skills and dominated at the college level.

Poe's career will be defined by:

A) his effort/ability to learn how to play NT/DE/UT/3/5 (one of those, all of those - I don't know) in terms of technique, leverage, and balance.

B) his effort in terms of maintaining his weight and trying to be more physical at the POA.

C) the effectiveness of his coaches/positional coaches/veteran leaders to help him accomplish A and B.

He's risky, but oozing with potential. In the early-to-mid first-round, I would rather take a guy with better film. Later in the draft, I'd love a guy like Poe to mold (Jimmy Graham comes to mind).

PossibleCabbage
03-06-2012, 01:49 PM
The issue with Poe is though he doesn't play with consistent enough leverage to just be a guy who occupies while the LBs are free. I don't put it all down to him. After watching a few tapes I can honestly say the coaches at Memphis shouldn't be allowed to coach. This guy should have been plugged in the middle of the defense to do as you said. However I counted numerous times watching him play where he ran the arc as a pass rusher. I don't care how fast the guy is he is 350lbs and should be in the middle blowing things up, not running outside around OTs.

You have to keep in mind that Memphis was among the least talented teams in FBS football last year, and the "guy plugs up the middle allowing others to make plays" concept only works when there are people capable of making plays other than the guy who plugs up the middle.

I think Poe was the only guy who was capable of getting pressure from anywhere, so they put him in the place where he can get the most pressure.

AntoinCD
03-06-2012, 02:02 PM
You have to keep in mind that Memphis was among the least talented teams in FBS football last year, and the "guy plugs up the middle allowing others to make plays" concept only works when there are people capable of making plays other than the guy who plugs up the middle.

I think Poe was the only guy who was capable of getting pressure from anywhere, so they put him in the place where he can get the most pressure.

From one point of view I understand that but surely you should have your best player doing what he does best. By lining him out wide at times you completely took away his effectiveness.

Matthew Jones
03-06-2012, 02:11 PM
Please tell me we're not comparing Dontari Poe, who wasn't even voted to the first team of a low-level conference by the C-USA coaches, to Cam Newton, who won the Heisman Trophy and the National Championship after accounting for 50 touchdowns in the most competitive conference in the NCAA.

Cigaro
03-06-2012, 02:20 PM
Went to look him up on YT. Around 1:30, he gets effectively checked by a running back. Perhaps I'm too critical, but I don't feel like wasting my time watching more;

g0IaNI-3sw4

Caulibflower
03-06-2012, 02:54 PM
^^^^ I watched the same video a day or two ago before heading to this thread to say he doesn't look like he's got what it takes to play in the NFL. And like you, I only needed to watch a few minutes against Arkansas State. He just isn't a good football player. Ngata would've bowled that running back right over.

bitonti
03-06-2012, 04:00 PM
Poe's career will be defined by:

A) his effort/ability to learn how to play NT/DE/UT/3/5 (one of those, all of those - I don't know) .

the fact that he could project to any or all of those spots makes him truly unique. being rare and having upside that's what top 20 picks should be. there are alot of great football players in the draft but there aren't any other Poe's.

gpngc
03-06-2012, 04:10 PM
the fact that he could project to any or all of those spots makes him truly unique. being rare and having upside that's what top 20 picks should be. there are alot of great football players in the draft but there aren't any other Poe's.

I strongly disagree with this but to each his own. I don't care about rare athletes. I care about football players. There are plenty of rare athletes that aren't good at football. In terms of upside, I like guys who have shown that upside in terms of football-specific skills that maybe need a little refinement at the college level, at least in flashes. I guess you could argue Poe has shown some flashes, but I haven't seen much (albiet from just a small amount of scouting him).

Also, I think versatility is extremely overrated. I'd much rather have a guy who plays one position very well than a guy who knows how to play multiple positions but hasn't perfected his craft in any one spot. Many spread offenses now have their receivers play just one spot and learn the ins and outs of it so that they can make sight adjustments and read coverages at a very high level, rather than lining up inside and out and having to know and develop instincts for multiple positions.

I only value versatility in offensive lineman, and only usually for guys that project as backup depth players (6th and 7th men). To me, if you are going to draft a guy to do a job, he should #1 be as good as he can be at that job. Versatility is a nice added bonus, I guess, but it shouldn't be the primary positive attribute of a high-end prospect.

But like I said - to each his own. This is just my opinion.

Matthew Jones
03-06-2012, 04:10 PM
the fact that he could project to any or all of those spots makes him truly unique. being rare and having upside that's what top 20 picks should be. there are alot of great football players in the draft but there aren't any other Poe's.

The key word is "could"; I'd have a hard time drafting someone without knowing exactly what role they were going to perform.

Clarkw267
03-06-2012, 04:45 PM
If someone wants to draft this guy in the 1st round and HOPE that they can make him want to play hard or suddenly develop football instincts than by all means... go right ahead.

He's a guy with physical tools, who isn't a very good player.

niel89
03-06-2012, 05:02 PM
Its all about finding a balance between athletic potential and how good of a player a prospect is on the field. Poe with good coaching could become one of the best DL in the league because of his tremendous physical gifts. However his actually game time play is underwhelming to say the least. If you have a good DL coach who could work with him then he would be a great pick; but if you think that he is going to be good right away, you are mistaken. He needs work as a football player.

PossibleCabbage
03-06-2012, 05:10 PM
I don't think "he's not a good football player right now" means you don't draft a guy with tremendous gifts. He's just a guy who, with good coaching, is going to become a much better player than he was in college. We've already seen this happen with notable recent prospects like Clay Matthews and Jason Pierre-Paul.

Poe is absolutely not going to be a big time contributor in his first year, and he's going to require a lot of good coaching, but you draft him for the player he can be not the player he is. Sometimes this works, sometimes it doesn't, but there are no picks in the NFL draft that are a sure thing. Plus, there are a lot of "planet theory" believers in the NFL and most coaches believe they can "coach a guy up."

Poe is definitely not as good as Ngata was coming out of Oregon, but knowing what we know now, if you redrafted 2006 I would take Ngata #1 overall without hesitation. So that's not entirely a fair comparison.

Caulibflower
03-06-2012, 05:27 PM
I don't think "he's not a good football player right now" means you don't draft a guy with tremendous gifts. He's just a guy who, with good coaching, is going to become a much better player than he was in college. We've already seen this happen with notable recent prospects like Clay Matthews and Jason Pierre-Paul.


Pierre-Paul took the winding route, but he was an All-American every year. As a freshman at (Cal) College of the Canyons, he had 49 tackles, 19 for a loss, 14 of those sacks. The next year at (Kan) Fort Scott Community College he had 70 tackles and 10.5 sacks, again being named an All-American at the level he played. Then he goes to the Big East, and in his one year of D-I play he plays in all 13 games, starts 7, records 45 tackles, 16.5 tackles for a loss and 6.5 sacks en route to again being named All-American by Pro Football Weekly and to the Big East All-Conference team. Then he blew up the combine, got drafted as a project despite averaging 10 sacks a year over his college career (granted, the level of competition was low) and in his second year is playing at an All-Pro level. The "project" tag was because he had limited experience against top competition, not because he wasn't productive.

Clay Matthews III walked on to USC's team as a 165 lb (wasn't it?) freshman linebacker. He redshirted and was a backup for three years while he grew, but during that period of time was named USC's special teams player of the year twice, then earning it again during his year as a starter. Unlike Poe, the only member of his team, much less his position, considered a serious NFL talent, Matthews played the same position as multiple other NFL prospects, several of whom were early-round picks. Even his senior year he was playing alongside three other NFL prospects. So the Matthews example makes even less sense as an analogy, I think, than the Pierre-Paul one - Matthews was an undersized LB that fought his way into a star lineup, where Poe is a huge, athletically gifted player that hasn't made much of an impact despite being far and away the most physically gifted player on his team.

FUNBUNCHER
03-06-2012, 05:30 PM
Please tell me we're not comparing Dontari Poe, who wasn't even voted to the first team of a low-level conference by the C-USA coaches, to Cam Newton, who won the Heisman Trophy and the National Championship after accounting for 50 touchdowns in the most competitive conference in the NCAA.


This is what jumped out to me about Maryland OT Bruce Campbell a couple of years ago. He wasn't even considered the best offensive tackle by rival coaches in the ACC, which suggested his elite physical tools didn't translate into a dominant football player.

JPP despite starting barely half the season at South Florida in 2009, really flashed on game film, at times looking like the biggest and fastest player on the field. His backside pursuit was maniacal, his agility and athleticism were off the charts, and he just looked like in limited snaps a guy who was an innate pass rusher.

JPP was All Big East after seven starts and made previously hyped linemate George Selvie look small time.

Before the draft I was whining that no way JPP was a top 10 talent despite his raw ability. I was completely wrong.

Poe IMO has more in common with Bruce Campbell than JPP.

Playing in the ACC and Big East is still a couple steps up in competition compared to the C-USA.

Actually, Poe's on the field disposition seems more suited for the Oline. I wonder if Memphis coaches ever considered putting him at G/T??

Clarkw267
03-06-2012, 05:36 PM
I don't think "he's not a good football player right now" means you don't draft a guy with tremendous gifts. He's just a guy who, with good coaching, is going to become a much better player than he was in college. We've already seen this happen with notable recent prospects like Clay Matthews and Jason Pierre-Paul.

Poe is absolutely not going to be a big time contributor in his first year, and he's going to require a lot of good coaching, but you draft him for the player he can be not the player he is. Sometimes this works, sometimes it doesn't, but there are no picks in the NFL draft that are a sure thing. Plus, there are a lot of "planet theory" believers in the NFL and most coaches believe they can "coach a guy up."

Poe is definitely not as good as Ngata was coming out of Oregon, but knowing what we know now, if you redrafted 2006 I would take Ngata #1 overall without hesitation. So that's not entirely a fair comparison.

Memphis has coaches who get paid pretty well to develop football players. So why didn't Poe use his superior physical skills? Do the coaches not know what they are doing? Or is it that Poe just doesn't have the instincts or desire to dominate?

niel89
03-06-2012, 05:42 PM
Memphis has coaches who get paid pretty well to develop football players. So why didn't Poe use his superior physical skills? Do the coaches not know what they are doing? Or is it that Poe just doesn't have the instincts or desire to dominate?

Even if the Memphis coaches are good, they don't compare to the quality of NFL and top college coaches. Better coaching will get more out of him.

gpngc
03-06-2012, 05:43 PM
This is what jumped out to me about Maryland OT Bruce Campbell a couple of years ago. He wasn't even considered the best offensive tackle by rival coaches in the ACC, which suggested his elite physical tools didn't translate into a dominant football player.

JPP despite starting barely half the season at South Florida in 2009, really flashed on game film, at times looking like the biggest and fastest player on the field. His backside pursuit was maniacal, his agility and athleticism were off the charts, and he just looked like in limited snaps a guy who was an innate pass rusher.

JPP was All Big East after seven starts and made previously hyped linemate George Selvie look small time.

Before the draft I was whining that no way JPP was a top 10 talent despite his raw ability. I was completely wrong.

Poe IMO has more in common with Bruce Campbell than JPP.

Playing in the ACC and Big East is still a couple steps up in competition compared to the C-USA.

Actually, Poe's on the field disposition seems more suited for the Oline. I wonder if Memphis coaches ever considered putting him at G/T??

Mind = Blown.

Clarkw267
03-06-2012, 05:50 PM
Even if the Memphis coaches are good, they don't compare to the quality of NFL and top college coaches. Better coaching will get more out of him.

My point is, his physical ability is so much better than the guys he was facing, he shouldn't need elite NFL coaching to produce. It's not like the staff at Memphis doesn't know football. And just watching him on film, he plays soft. That's not a coaching thing, that's a personality thing..

Cigaro
03-06-2012, 06:49 PM
Even if the Memphis coaches are good, they don't compare to the quality of NFL and top college coaches. Better coaching will get more out of him.

If there is something to get out of him at all. Just because he has better coaches does not mean he will improve to any degree; there's nothing guaranteeing that Poe is a legitimate football player.

Before really looking into him I would have been happy if the Panthers drafted him, because of his potential to absorb blockers. But after watching a 6'5, 350 lb defensive tackle get completely stalwarted by a running back at a barely FBS school with no other lineman assisting the RB, there's no way I can take Poe seriously as a prospect.

To me, Poe is nothing more than a 6'5, 350 pound man who can run fast and lift well, who somehow stumbled onto a football field and was told to play. I see nothing in him that resembles an actual football player, and not just a physical specimen, in him at all. Maybe someone can indeed teach him how to play, but if he hasn't learned to any degree yet, I have little hope of that.

bitonti
03-07-2012, 09:19 AM
Every prospect has to learn something going from NCAA to NFL. Poe is not the only prospect who needs to be coached up. Let's not sit here and pretend there are perfect prospects out there ready from day 1. Every player needs to adjust and every player needs coaching. Poe might need a little more than most. But that's what pro coaches will do. Coach him up.

Look at the defenders, every single one of em has weaknesses. We are dwelling on Poe's cause his stock rose so high. But Coples has a bad motor. Claiborne lacks elite speed. Upshaw/Ingram are tweeners. Dre is a weed head. Barron has a double hernia. Cox is undersized.

It's not like Poe is the only imperfect defender.

FUNBUNCHER
03-07-2012, 10:51 AM
If Poe played at Ohio State, LSU or Georgia with the same level of non-production,(personally I doubt he'd be a starter at those schools), I don't think we'd be hearing all this first round talk for Poe.

As a football fan I would love to be wrong about Poe, but I just don't see it with him.
Maybe he's a guy who plays to the level of his competition

bitonti
03-07-2012, 10:59 AM
If Poe played at Ohio State, LSU or Georgia with the same level of non-production,(personally I doubt he'd be a starter at those schools)


he was offered scholarships to much better schools than Memphis. he stayed local. It was a real recruiting get for them.

bitonti
03-07-2012, 01:40 PM
Claiborne isn't getting faster. Upshaw and Ingram aren't going to grow 4 inches and become a perfect DE/OLB prospect.

You can't really fix those flaws. Poe's flaws of not having the proper technique or whatever, that can be fixed.

D-Unit
03-07-2012, 01:44 PM
Claiborne isn't getting faster. Upshaw and Ingram aren't going to grow 4 inches and become a perfect DE/OLB prospect.

You can't really fix those flaws. Poe's flaws of not having the proper technique or whatever, that can be fixed.
I like bitonti's passionate defense of Poe.

I have no idea how he'll pan out, but I'm definitely on the side of caution.

onejayhawk
03-07-2012, 02:17 PM
Mind = Blown.

That makes perfect sense. What is the problem.

J

AntoinCD
03-07-2012, 02:35 PM
Claiborne isn't getting faster. Upshaw and Ingram aren't going to grow 4 inches and become a perfect DE/OLB prospect.

You can't really fix those flaws. Poe's flaws of not having the proper technique or whatever, that can be fixed.

For sure Poe's issues can be fixed whereas Ingram or Upshaw won't get any taller. However, despite their perceived physical limitations both the DE/OLB guys you mentioned thrived in the SEC, as did Morris Claiborne. And despite Poe's almost unbelievable physical superiority over pretty much anyone he has ever faced he hasn't consistently shown during games in Conference USA the ability to be this unstoppable force in the NFL.

I don't want to come off like I'm bashing Poe but he doesn't have top 10 game film. He hasn't come close to showing he has top 10 ability. What he has is once in a generation physical tools. If you're ok with drafting him on those measureables then best of luck to you, all I know is I would pass in the top 10 and would probably only feel the risk worth in the second half of the first round.

Cigaro
03-07-2012, 02:42 PM
Every prospect has to learn something going from NCAA to NFL. Poe is not the only prospect who needs to be coached up. Let's not sit here and pretend there are perfect prospects out there ready from day 1. Every player needs to adjust and every player needs coaching. Poe might need a little more than most. But that's what pro coaches will do. Coach him up.

Look at the defenders, every single one of em has weaknesses. We are dwelling on Poe's cause his stock rose so high. But Coples has a bad motor. Claiborne lacks elite speed. Upshaw/Ingram are tweeners. Dre is a weed head. Barron has a double hernia. Cox is undersized.

It's not like Poe is the only imperfect defender.

Every prospect has weaknesses, true. But they usually always have strengths as well. At the combine, Poe has unreal strengths. On the field, I've yet to see a single strength from him.

bitonti
03-07-2012, 03:31 PM
I don't want to come off like I'm bashing Poe but he doesn't have top 10 game film. He hasn't come close to showing he has top 10 ability. What he has is once in a generation physical tools.

we can say the same thing about Ryan Tannehill, with the exception of not having once in a generation tools. The draft isn't really about what's fair or who's the better football player. it's about need matching upside. a team needs a QB they will reach. a team needs an interior DT they will reach. It happens every year.

several years ago, I actually was very much against drafting JPP high based on backflips and 6 career sacks. Live and learn. rare once in a generation physical tools absolutely matter. And it's deserved. the draft is beholden to laws of supply and demand, and guys with Poe's skills are in high demand ( and extremely low supply).

I also think this player is being underrated when people say he hasn't done anything of value on the football field. He's got 4 FF. he's got 5 sacks. Its not amazing production but it is _Some_ production.

gpngc
03-07-2012, 03:48 PM
That makes perfect sense. What is the problem.

J

I had never thought about it and it does indeed make perfect sense. That's why my mind was blown because it's a good idea.

FUNBUNCHER
03-07-2012, 04:03 PM
This reminds of the pro arguments in favor of Blaine Gabbert last year. He played poorly in 2010 for Mizzou, yet his advocates argued his franchise QB tools made him worth a top 10 pick. So far he hasn't shown that in the NFL, but I'm going to give him more than a rookie year before I make any final evaluations on his NFL career.


The argument for Tannehill is slightly different. Statistically he had a good season in 2011, and put up better numbers than either Locker, Ponder, Gabbert, while throwing for more yards and TDs than Andy Dalton and more yards than Newton.

Tannehill ended the 2010 season with six consecutive wins in his first six starts, and played well against LSU in the Cotton Bowl.

Tannehill lacks experience, but he has had enough moments where he flashed next level ability at his position that it's not totally insane for him to
be overdrafted in the top 10.

Poe is a curiosity to me.

I'd love to have my team bring him into camp and kick the tires, see if he can be coached/motivated into an NFL Dlineman. But if the SKins took him at 6 I'd be nauseous.

vidae
03-07-2012, 04:11 PM
There were arguments in favor of Blaine Gabbert?

Caulibflower
03-07-2012, 04:21 PM
we can say the same thing about Ryan Tannehill, with the exception of not having once in a generation tools. The draft isn't really about what's fair or who's the better football player. it's about need matching upside. a team needs a QB they will reach. a team needs an interior DT they will reach. It happens every year.

If you don't see Tannehill doing things on the field that other QBs don't, you don't know what to look for.

several years ago, I actually was very much against drafting JPP high based on backflips and 6 career sacks. Live and learn. rare once in a generation physical tools absolutely matter. And it's deserved. the draft is beholden to laws of supply and demand, and guys with Poe's skills are in high demand ( and extremely low supply).

JPP was an All-American each year he player. 6.5 sacks isn't mind-blowing, but 16.5 tackles for a loss is impressive, and it was his first year playing D-I ball after having 24.5 sacks the previous two years. I just wrote this in another thread. No, JPP didn't have a high sack total for South Florida, but he had everything else.

I had never thought about it and it does indeed make perfect sense. That's why my mind was blown because it's a good idea.

I actually kinda think this, too. I'm curious.

And just to be clear, I don't think he'll be terrible. But people've got him going top-10. He's a second or third rounder. He's a more athletic, less impactful Terrance Cody. He gets pushed around even though he can throw the bench press up over 40 times and weighs 350. Second round is fine, early first is not.

Jimmy
03-22-2012, 12:16 PM
God damn this is an informative thread. Completely did a 180ļ on my opinion of this guy.

Sounds like he has a bunch of potential, but he is just a technical mess. Short arms and poor leverage generation and instinct - sounds like a horrible combination for someone being touted as a developmental prospect.

Obviously speed and size are intriguing, but I think he falls to 20. Better hope he is coachable.

SenorGato
03-22-2012, 04:38 PM
God damn this is an informative thread. Completely did a 180ļ on my opinion of this guy.

Sounds like he has a bunch of potential, but he is just a technical mess. Short arms and poor leverage generation and instinct - sounds like a horrible combination for someone being touted as a developmental prospect.

Obviously speed and size are intriguing, but I think he falls to 16. Better hope he is coachable.

Fixed for accuracy. If a 6'5 350 pounder with that kind of athleticism is sitting there for Rex Ryan I have trouble seeing him pass. Jets might have the biggest, most athletic front 3 in the league, and the coaching staff knows how to coach DL guys. Also, they grabbed Dunbar after the Vikings fired him.

RaiderNation
03-22-2012, 04:43 PM
I honestly can't see Poe fall past 14 with Dallas. You really think Jerry would pass on a prospect like Poe, plus they need NT/DE help. Ratliff and Poe would be fun to watch.

I still have Poe going to Carolina at 9 for now, theres a chance Kuechly could get drafted there which would cause Poe to fall some. KC at 11, DAL at 14, PHI at 15 and NYJ at 16 will all consider Poe if he's on the board.

Caulibflower
03-22-2012, 04:44 PM
I honestly can't see Poe fall past 4 and Dallas. You really think Jerry would pass on a prospect like Poe, plus they need NT/DE help. Ratliff and Poe would be fun to watch.


If you're an NFC East running back.

gator3guy
03-22-2012, 07:50 PM
Poe's going top 10. He's got the size, the tools, and the versatility. Some team is going to fall in love and want to get into the top 10 if he is there.

holt_bruce81
03-22-2012, 08:02 PM
What makes Poe different than a guy like Bruce Campbell?

Both tore up the combine, had bad tape but was in EVERYONES top 15 picks, Mayock had him in his first round as well, and a lot of people had him going 8th overall to the Raiders. And a lot of people had him as the best tackle in the draft.

He was picked by the Raiders.....in the 4th round, 12th or 13th tackle taken.

gator3guy
03-22-2012, 08:08 PM
You could be right, but I think it is an apples to oranges comparison.

PossibleCabbage
03-22-2012, 09:03 PM
What makes Poe different than a guy like Bruce Campbell?

Defensive tackle and offensive tackle are very different positions? From DTs you take impact plays when they come, but you don't need a guy to be 100% all the time, you honestly don't need them to be 90%+ all the time. On the other hand, for OTs "consistence" is arguably the single most important characteristic, is that if your LT takes a play off 5% of time time, then it's only going to take 20 plays to get your QB killed.

It's also somewhat simpler to mold a DT from raw clay than it is for an OT. Most defensive tackles coming into the NFL have to go through a significant seasoning process, very few DTs are ready to go as rookies.

SRK85
03-22-2012, 10:46 PM
I'm gonna call it now Poe is going to the Eagles.

duesouth
03-23-2012, 05:28 AM
What makes Poe different than a guy like Bruce Campbell?

Both tore up the combine, had bad tape but was in EVERYONES top 15 picks, Mayock had him in his first round as well, and a lot of people had him going 8th overall to the Raiders. And a lot of people had him as the best tackle in the draft.

He was picked by the Raiders.....in the 4th round, 12th or 13th tackle taken.

From what I remember, Campbell had a medical red flag - not sure it was something that came out into the public domain.

Caulibflower
03-31-2012, 12:34 PM
finally came across some video:

AZxD_uV5kyk

onejayhawk
03-31-2012, 10:12 PM
How seriously do we take the talk of Poe to Carolina at #9? I am about 60/40 that it has to be the first option in a mock.

J

stlouisfan37
04-01-2012, 01:24 PM
Just thinking outside the box a little bit...is anyone else wondering why Poe isn't an offensive guard? 6'5", 350, can move well, super strong, short arms...

nobodyinparticular
04-01-2012, 01:52 PM
Just thinking outside the box a little bit...is anyone else wondering why Poe isn't an offensive guard? 6'5", 350, can move well, super strong, short arms...

The good thing is that as an OG, Poe would have an advantage from his experience at DT because he would know what a DT would be thinking.

This is a great idea.

Matthew Jones
04-01-2012, 02:52 PM
The good thing is that as an OG, Poe would have an advantage from his experience at DT because he would know what a DT would be thinking.

This is a great idea.

Would someone really draft a defensive tackle in the first round to convert them to offensive guard though?

Matthew Jones
04-01-2012, 02:53 PM
How seriously do we take the talk of Poe to Carolina at #9? I am about 60/40 that it has to be the first option in a mock.

J

Carolina has been obsessed with Quinton Coples throughout the draft process; Coples is a far more productive player than Dontari Poe with similar potential. Poe would be my backup option there if someone such as Jacksonville grabs Coples although it would be a mistake to draft a second-team all-Conference USA player in the top ten.

stlouisfan37
04-01-2012, 03:13 PM
Would someone really draft a defensive tackle in the first round to convert them to offensive guard though?

No, they wouldn't. I wasn't really suggesting that they do so either. I guess I was just thinking out loud that he had the build and skillset for a guard, and maybe if someone had thought about that a few years ago we would be talking about a fantastic guard prospect with lights-out numbers.

nobodyinparticular
04-01-2012, 03:41 PM
Would someone really draft a defensive tackle in the first round to convert them to offensive guard though?

My post was actually a parody on another former poster's frequent "switch Player A to opposite side of the ball for this advantage" posts.

I believe this poster once said Vince Young should be a DE and Michael Vick should be a CB--in each instance it was because they would know what the opposing QB was thinking.

niel89
04-01-2012, 05:53 PM
My post was actually a parody on another former poster's frequent "switch Player A to opposite side of the ball for this advantage" posts.

I believe this poster once said Vince Young should be a DE and Michael Vick should be a CB--in each instance it was because they would know what the opposing QB was thinking.

Didn't it start with Juice Williams converting to DE? I forgot Juice Williams even existed.

nobodyinparticular
04-01-2012, 05:56 PM
Didn't it start with Juice Williams converting to DE? I forgot Juice Williams even existed.

I think you're right.

nobodyinparticular
04-01-2012, 06:03 PM
Didn't it start with Juice Williams converting to DE? I forgot Juice Williams even existed.

Was that Starheather? Who kept making those threads?

Rosebud
04-01-2012, 09:47 PM
Was that Starheather? Who kept making those threads?

Nah, Starheather was all about Sergio Kindle and how he was the evolution of the LB position and a lock two wins. Championship.

Juice to DE was IDD I think.

bored of education
08-10-2013, 01:55 PM
/me pats my own back

TACKLE
08-10-2013, 02:07 PM
From 6/23/11 (http://draftcountdown.com/forum/showthread.php?p=2614743&#post2614743)....

It's still very early, but I'll go out on a limb a bit here and say that he will be a first round pick down the road.

oh hi bored of education.

Splat
08-10-2013, 02:27 PM
/me pats my own back

I like him. I like him alot...

WCH
08-10-2013, 09:42 PM
"Planet Theory"

FUNBUNCHER
08-11-2013, 12:07 AM
I still think Poe ends up becoming at best a Randy Starks level player; solid pro with ability, maybe a starter for most teams, but never a league wide star or 5x pro bowl type player.
The rest is up to Dontari.

villagewarrior
08-12-2013, 04:50 AM
I would gladly eat crow if Poe turns into a stud. Credit goes to him for busting his tail, now lets see it over the course of the regular season.

onejayhawk
08-12-2013, 01:36 PM
I still think Poe ends up becoming at best a Randy Starks level player; solid pro with ability, maybe a starter for most teams, but never a league wide star or 5x pro bowl type player.
The rest is up to Dontari.

Clearly past this level already. At the least he will be a player who could start for anyone. He would garner some Pro Bowl attention, if there was such a thing.

J