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jsagan77
10-02-2011, 10:03 PM
My front runners....

MVP: Aaron Rodgers
OPOTY: Tom Brady
DPOTY: Possibly Kerrigan (A lot of guys deserving but Kerrigan has had a huge impact on games.)
DROTY: Ryan Kerrigan
OROTY: Cam Newton

I'm interested in others opinions. Especially with the monster seasons Stafford / Megatron and others are having.

Notredameleo
10-02-2011, 10:14 PM
MVP: Brady
OPOY: Calvin Johnson
DPOY: Charles Woodson
DROY: Kerrigan
OROY: Newton
Comeback: Stafford

keylime_5
10-02-2011, 10:41 PM
Brady MVP
Megatron OPOY I agree
Ware DPOY
Newton OROY
Kerrigan DROY

BuddyCHRIST
10-02-2011, 10:46 PM
MVP: Rodgers
OPOY: Rodgers
DPOY: I dunno, whoever gets it probably isn't the front runner now. Suh
OROY: Cam Juice
DROY: Kerrigan
Comeback: Stafford

Thecollegedropout
10-03-2011, 07:47 AM
MVP: Rodgers
OPOY: Rodgers
DPOY: I dunno, whoever gets it probably isn't the front runner now. Suh
OROY: Cam Juice
DROY: Kerrigan
Comeback: Stafford
Switch Suh with Ngata and I am in full agreement.

J-Mike88
10-03-2011, 08:09 AM
Wes Welker's statistics are unbelievable as well.
Both he and Brady are on paces never seen before.
But Megatron is on pace for 32 TD receptions too.

Lions are 4-0 and remember in the one preseason game that usually matters, those Lions pounded Brady and the Patriots.

But a quarter in, it's gotta be Rodgers or Brady for those first 2 awards. Edge to Rodgers as he didn't throw 4 picks to lose a game, his passer rating is unreal, and they are 4-0.

Shane P. Hallam
10-03-2011, 08:11 AM
MVP: Aaron Rodgers
OPOY: Wes Welker
DPOY: Charles Woodson
DROY: Von Miller
OROY: Cam Newton

Nalej
10-03-2011, 08:33 AM
MVP: Rodgers
OPOY: Brady
DPOY: Ware
OROY: Cammie Cam
DROY: Kerrigan

Razor
10-03-2011, 08:54 AM
MVP: Brady
Without Brady the New England Patriots would be 0-4. GB would probably still be at least 3-1. That's why Brady is the MVP.
OPOY: Calvin Johnson
Could make a case for Welker here, but if Megatron keeps this up he should get it.
DPOY: DeMarcus Ware
DROY: Kerrigan
OROY: Newton
Comeback: Stafford

J-Mike88
10-03-2011, 09:05 AM
1/4th of the way thru the season, the only MVP contenders are this point are:


Rodgers
Brady
Welker
Megatron


Reasons why each will claim to make a case.

Calvin Johnson
Four games in, he's got 2 TD catches in each game, which has never been done before and probably never will again. Jerry Rice didn't do it. Randy Moss didn't do it. That being said, Rice never even won an MVP so cross Megatron off.

Wesley Welker
That little white guy has 40 catches in 4 games, and is averaging over 150 yards a game. He's putting up numbers never ever seen before at the WR position. Not Rice, not Marvin Harrison, Randy Moss, Terrell Owens.
That being said, he's still a WR and they don't give the MVP award to a WR. And he's in the Shadow of God (Brady).

Brady
He is on pace to just obliterate the passing yardage record which is 5000. He's on pace for over 6000 yards. He has 1553 yards and 13 TDs. His team is in the back yard of ESPN and they love them some Brady and New England.
And he has 3 Super Bowl rings from the early part of last decade.

Rodgers
He has one less TD pass than Brady, and 200 fewer yards, however he also runs for TDs that Brady doesn't.
Arod also has 3 fewer Ints, his passer rating is 125 to Brady's 111.
125 is simply unfathomable.
And at this time, his Packers are 4-0, whereas Brady is 3-1, because he threw 4 Ints in one game last week to lose at Buffalo.

Without bias, if we're judging off the 4 games played so far, there's no way Brady should be named ahead of Rodgers for the MVP. At this point in time.

J-Mike88
10-03-2011, 09:09 AM
MVP: Brady
Without Brady the New England Patriots would be 0-4. GB would probably still be at least 3-1. That's why Brady is the MVP.
Wrong.
Because you are a Patriot, that's why Brady is your MVP.

You give awards for what they have done.
Not for what you think their team would have done had the player not been there, doing what he's done.

I'm sure you knew NE would win 11 of 15 games with Cassell starting in 2008.

PACKmanN
10-03-2011, 09:19 AM
MVP: Brady
Without Brady the New England Patriots would be 0-4. GB would probably still be at least 3-1. That's why Brady is the MVP.
OPOY: Calvin Johnson
Could make a case for Welker here, but if Megatron keeps this up he should get it.
DPOY: DeMarcus Ware
DROY: Kerrigan
OROY: Newton
Comeback: Stafford

how would the Packers be 3-1 without Rodgers.

Ngatachance92
10-03-2011, 09:45 AM
MVP: Peyton Manning
OPOY:Calvin Johnson
DPOY:Haloti Ngata
OROY:Cam Cam
DROY:Kerrigan
Comeback:Matt Staff

DiG
10-03-2011, 10:14 AM
MVP: Aaron Rodgers
OPOY: Wes Welker
DPOY: Charles Woodson
DROY: Von Miller
OROY: Cam Newton

Trying to be different or do you really believe that at this point? I know he has more registered sacks but I've seen denver games and obviously redskins games and theres no way millers had a bigger impact through 4 weeks. kerrigans got interceptions, touchdowns, pass deflections, forced fumbles, and he's consistently disrupting the quarterback.

tjsunstein
10-03-2011, 10:18 AM
MVP: Brady
Without Brady the New England Patriots would be 0-4. GB would probably still be at least 3-1. That's why Brady is the MVP.
OPOY: Calvin Johnson
Could make a case for Welker here, but if Megatron keeps this up he should get it.
DPOY: DeMarcus Ware
DROY: Kerrigan
OROY: Newton
Comeback: Stafford
There's absolutely no way you can substantiate that as fact or even believe the reasoning yourself. The fact that you said the word probably takes away any credibility. You're making assumptions, not going off of what has been done. The Lions would be winless without Calvin. Calvin for MVP? No. You might as well gift wrap another MVP for Peyton because of how much they suck without him.

Rodgers: 73%, 1,553 yards, 12 TD, 2 INT, 124.6 (2 Rushing TD)
Brady: 67%, 1,325 yards, 13 TD, 5 INT, 111.3

yodabear
10-03-2011, 10:22 AM
MVP: Champions Ship A-Rod
OPOY: Megatron
DPOY: Donkey Kong
OROY: Cammy Ice
DROY: Ummmm, this dude needs a nickname hmmmmmmm, Ryan Kerrigan
Comeback: Injury Just Around Corner Staff

tjsunstein
10-03-2011, 10:25 AM
MVP: Aaron Rodgers
OPOY: Tom Brady
DPOY: Charles Woodson
OROY: Cam Newton
DROY: Ryan Kerrigan
CBPOY: Matt Stafford

DiG
10-03-2011, 10:26 AM
DROY: Ummmm, this dude needs a nickname hmmmmmmm, Ryan Kerrigan


nothing yet but the duo is being referred to as "KERRAKPO"

http://cdn3.sbnation.com/fan_shot_images/217928/IMG_20110927_021115.jpg

tjsunstein
10-03-2011, 10:39 AM
The only nickname I've seen for Kerrigan is 'Superman' but Cam Newton is trying to coin that as his. Newton's celebration has been an act of tearing off his jersey to reveal the S on his chest, much like Rodgers' putting on the belt.

bucfan12
10-03-2011, 10:54 AM
MVP: Aaron Rodgers: Guy is just playing flat out of his mind right now.
OPOY: Calvin Johnson: 8 TDs in the 1/.4 of the year? Wow. McFadden gets some considerations.
DPOY: Charles Woodson: 2 INTs for TDs, 3 INTs total. Flat out playmaker.
OROY: Cam Newton: Has made Carolina a completely different team than they were a year ago.
DROY: Mason Foster: Sure call me a homer. But once he took over as the MIKE LB, he's got 2 sacks, 2 FF and 27 tackles. Plus, since he took over, the defense has allowed 16 points and 50 yds rushing in 6 quarters. Watch MNF tonight.
Coach: Jim Schwartz: That game against Dallas was remarkable and this turnaround with the franchise has been phenomenal.
Comeback Player: Matt Stafford: I'm giving some recognition to Rex Grossman for reviving his career, and even Alex Smith, but Stafford has been phenomenal.

MichaelJordanEberle (sabf)
10-03-2011, 11:01 AM
MVP: The NFL's best QB, Aaron Rodgers
DPOY: Woodson
OPOY: Brady
OROY: Cam, obviously
DROY: Kerrigan

Razor
10-03-2011, 11:16 AM
Lol, que the Packers fans to tell us all how much their defense sucks. Since when is the MVP about stats? I know we could go on and on debating the definition of the MVP award. I'm not going to get into that. It the Most Valuable Player, not Whoever Has The Best Stats. That's part of why Manning has four MVPs. And how the **** does Cassel fit into this? Sure, they went 11-5 with Cassel, but that was when, y'know, we had a ******* defense. Our defense is ****. The only reason why we're winning this year is because of Brady, we're winning in spite of our defense. Sure, the Packer defense hasn't been up to its usual standards, but it's still a pretty good defense from what I've seen. And you're right, tjsunstein. There's no way that I can substantiate this because it's an opinion. You can't substantiate your opinion either since the value of a player can't be derived only from stats.

vidae
10-03-2011, 11:18 AM
An awards thread created after four games is more worthless than the "Is the NFL fixed?" thread.

DoughBoy
10-03-2011, 11:28 AM
How the hell can Matthew Stafford be a comeback player if he never arrived in the first place? I respect him more than anything but jeez.

tjsunstein
10-03-2011, 11:30 AM
Lol, que the Packers fans to tell us all how much their defense sucks. Since when is the MVP about stats? I know we could go on and on debating the definition of the MVP award. I'm not going to get into that. It the Most Valuable Player, not Whoever Has The Best Stats. That's part of why Manning has four MVPs. And how the **** does Cassel fit into this? Sure, they went 11-5 with Cassel, but that was when, y'know, we had a ******* defense. Our defense is ****. The only reason why we're winning this year is because of Brady, we're winning in spite of our defense. Sure, the Packer defense hasn't been up to its usual standards, but it's still a pretty good defense from what I've seen. And you're right, tjsunstein. There's no way that I can substantiate this because it's an opinion. You can't substantiate your opinion either since the value of a player can't be derived only from stats.
Do you mean que the Patriot fan to tell us how much more valuable Brady is because their defense sucks? Because that's what you did after mocking the idea of a Packer fan telling you the same. Even though the Packers rank right above the Patriots in pass defense, 31st.

We all know that the MVP award isn't all about stats (hopefully), and you will notice that Brady has more yards, and touchdowns so it's not like I made that a be-all end-all to this.

So far, the only reasoning you have given for Brady over Rodgers for MVP is that you think that the Packers would be at least 3-1 without Rodgers? Have you seen how dominating Rodgers has been? Or have you been too busy watching Brady throw 4 picks to blow a lead in Buffalo? Because that's the only way I can see someone picking Brady over Rodgers right now, is if they haven't seen Rodgers play this year.

bucfan12
10-03-2011, 11:44 AM
Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't Bellichik lead the Patriots to an 11-5 record without Tom Brady back in 2008? Not buying that the Pats would be that bad without Brady. In my opinion, the Pats would be 0-4 without Bellichick.

BloodBrother
10-03-2011, 11:51 AM
Pats had a better overall team in 2008 though. Now with that defense, they would struggle to win without Brady

Packers would struggle to win without Rodgers to, though. You take an elite top 3 QB away from their team and they just arent' gonna be anywhere near the same, period

J-Mike88
10-03-2011, 12:02 PM
Lol, que the Packers fans to tell us all how much their defense sucks. Since when is the MVP about stats? I know we could go on and on debating the definition of the MVP award. I'm not going to get into that. It the Most Valuable Player, not Whoever Has The Best Stats. That's part of why Manning has four MVPs. And how the **** does Cassel fit into this? Sure, they went 11-5 with Cassel, but that was when, y'know, we had a ******* defense. Our defense is ****. The only reason why we're winning this year is because of Brady, we're winning in spite of our defense. Sure, the Packer defense hasn't been up to its usual standards, but it's still a pretty good defense from what I've seen. And you're right, tjsunstein. There's no way that I can substantiate this because it's an opinion. You can't substantiate your opinion either since the value of a player can't be derived only from stats.
LOL, so you say it's not all about stats? So what's next, team W-L record? How does that make it edge to Brady at this particular point in time?

jsagan77
10-03-2011, 12:09 PM
nothing yet but the duo is being referred to as "KERRAKPO"

http://cdn3.sbnation.com/fan_shot_images/217928/IMG_20110927_021115.jpg

Either me and another person had the same thought at the same time or someone scalped the nickname I made for them off of cpnd.proboards.com and made a T-Shirt. SMH

jsagan77
10-03-2011, 12:12 PM
My front runners....

MVP: Aaron Rodgers
OPOTY: Tom Brady
DPOTY: Possibly Kerrigan (A lot of guys deserving but Kerrigan has had a huge impact on games.)
DROTY: Ryan Kerrigan
OROTY: Cam Newton

I'm interested in others opinions. Especially with the monster seasons Stafford / Megatron and others are having.


I'm going to add to this and say that Shanahan has to be coach of the year. 3-1 and a botched snap away from 4-0 with the Sex Cannon at the helm is no small feat. It's either him, Gaily or Schwartz right now but Grossman is a turnover waiting to happen and Shanny is just winning with him right now. It's amazing what he's done in his second season.

Shane P. Hallam
10-03-2011, 01:01 PM
Trying to be different or do you really believe that at this point? I know he has more registered sacks but I've seen denver games and obviously redskins games and theres no way millers had a bigger impact through 4 weeks. kerrigans got interceptions, touchdowns, pass deflections, forced fumbles, and he's consistently disrupting the quarterback.

I do believe it. Kerrigan is right there, no doubt, but Von is making some huge plays and really the only bright spot on this defense. He is making a huge impact and though he doesn't have a touchdown like Kerrigan, but they have the same number of FF, Kerrigan has only 1 more pass defended, and a 1.5 sacks less. It's arguable, but I'd go Von.

mqtirishfan
10-03-2011, 01:10 PM
Lol, que the Packers fans to tell us all how much their defense sucks. Since when is the MVP about stats? I know we could go on and on debating the definition of the MVP award. I'm not going to get into that. It the Most Valuable Player, not Whoever Has The Best Stats. That's part of why Manning has four MVPs. And how the **** does Cassel fit into this? Sure, they went 11-5 with Cassel, but that was when, y'know, we had a ******* defense. Our defense is ****. The only reason why we're winning this year is because of Brady, we're winning in spite of our defense. Sure, the Packer defense hasn't been up to its usual standards, but it's still a pretty good defense from what I've seen. And you're right, tjsunstein. There's no way that I can substantiate this because it's an opinion. You can't substantiate your opinion either since the value of a player can't be derived only from stats.

The Packers defense has been one of the worst defenses in the NFL this year. What is your argument?

yodabear
10-03-2011, 01:11 PM
Lol, que the Packers fans to tell us all how much their defense sucks. Since when is the MVP about stats? I know we could go on and on debating the definition of the MVP award. I'm not going to get into that. It the Most Valuable Player, not Whoever Has The Best Stats. That's part of why Manning has four MVPs. And how the **** does Cassel fit into this? Sure, they went 11-5 with Cassel, but that was when, y'know, we had a ******* defense. Our defense is ****. The only reason why we're winning this year is because of Brady, we're winning in spite of our defense. Sure, the Packer defense hasn't been up to its usual standards, but it's still a pretty good defense from what I've seen. And you're right, tjsunstein. There's no way that I can substantiate this because it's an opinion. You can't substantiate your opinion either since the value of a player can't be derived only from stats.

U silly goose, rule number 12 of the SWDC boards is not to hate on any quaterback that wears/wore #12 ever.

Jvig43
10-03-2011, 02:26 PM
The Packers defense has been one of the worst defenses in the NFL this year. What is your argument?

That the Pats defense is far and away much worse. How were you not picking up on that, and how does it even need to be mentioned?

CC.SD
10-03-2011, 02:31 PM
MVP: Calvin, for having pretty good season TD #s after 4 games. Until he stops catching the ball in the end zone twice a game I am not even considering going to my runner up slot.

OPOY: Also Calvin. But a good excuse for a runner up list of Rodgers, Brady, Welker. I think Hasselbeck is worming his way in here too.

DPOY: Woodson/only because I am just incredulous that Suh is THIS good and don't want to have two Lions on my ballot yet.

OROY: Easily Cam
DROY: Kerrigan for sheer production value.

mqtirishfan
10-03-2011, 02:34 PM
That the Pats defense is far and away much worse. How were you not picking up on that, and how does it even need to be mentioned?

Because his point is that the Packers would still be one of the best teams in the NFL without Aaron Rodgers.

PACKmanN
10-03-2011, 02:43 PM
Lol, que the Packers fans to tell us all how much their defense sucks.


Since when is the MVP about stats? I know we could go on and on debating the definition of the MVP award. I'm not going to get into that. It the Most Valuable Player, not Whoever Has The Best Stats. That's part of why Manning has four MVPs.


And how the **** does Cassel fit into this? Sure, they went 11-5 with Cassel, but that was when, y'know, we had a ******* defense. Our defense is ****. The only reason why we're winning this year is because of Brady, we're winning in spite of our defense.

Sure, the Packer defense hasn't been up to its usual standards, but it's still a pretty good defense from what I've seen. And you're right, tjsunstein. There's no way that I can substantiate this because it's an opinion. You can't substantiate your opinion either since the value of a player can't be derived only from stats.

are you a packers fan too

the new jesus
10-03-2011, 04:06 PM
Rodgers is the MVP right now. He has better stats than Brady, a better record, and has played better. I'm not sure what Brady has going for him in that argument?

J-Mike88
10-03-2011, 04:10 PM
Rodgers is the MVP right now. He has better stats than Brady, a better record, and has played better. I'm not sure what Brady has going for him in that argument?
Won 3 Super Bowls -from 2001-2004 seasons.
Also has had some super regular seasons like last year's unreal numbers in the regular season, plus 3 of 4 games this year he was awesome, and he plays in the shadows of ESPN.

mqtirishfan
10-03-2011, 04:11 PM
Rodgers is the MVP right now. He has better stats than Brady, a better record, and has played better. I'm not sure what Brady has going for him in that argument?

He's carrying the league's worst defense, and Rodgers is only carrying one of the league's worst defenses is the argument I've seen here. Having to make up 98 points that your defense has allowed is MUCH more difficult than having to make up 97 points. Right?

nepg
10-03-2011, 04:20 PM
There's absolutely no way you can substantiate that as fact or even believe the reasoning yourself. The fact that you said the word probably takes away any credibility. You're making assumptions, not going off of what has been done. The Lions would be winless without Calvin. Calvin for MVP? No. You might as well gift wrap another MVP for Peyton because of how much they suck without him.

Rodgers: 73%, 1,553 yards, 12 TD, 2 INT, 124.6 (2 Rushing TD)
Brady: 67%, 1,325 yards, 13 TD, 5 INT, 111.3
Good job trying to make an argument and posting the complete wrong stats.

Also, look at who the two teams have played. New Orleans, Carolina, Chicago, and Denver v. Miami, San Diego, Buffalo, and Oakland? The only team that's worse at defending against the pass than New Orleans and Carolina is New England.

mqtirishfan
10-03-2011, 04:32 PM
Good job trying to make an argument and posting the complete wrong stats.

Also, look at who the two teams have played. New Orleans, Carolina, Chicago, and Denver v. Miami, San Diego, Buffalo, and Oakland? The only team that's worse at defending against the pass than New Orleans and Carolina is New England.

You're very right. Miami, Buffalo and Oakland are particularly noteworthy for their stellar pass defense this year.

Brodeur
10-03-2011, 04:45 PM
MVP: Calvin, for having pretty good season TD #s after 4 games. Until he stops catching the ball in the end zone twice a game I am not even considering going to my runner up slot.

OPOY: Also Calvin. But a good excuse for a runner up list of Rodgers, Brady, Welker. I think Hasselbeck is worming his way in here too.

DPOY: Woodson/only because I am just incredulous that Suh is THIS good and don't want to have two Lions on my ballot yet.

OROY: Easily Cam
DROY: Kerrigan for sheer production value.

Suh really hasn't been nearly as impressive as he was towards the end of last season, and he's struggled quite a bit at times. I don't think he should be in the DPOY conversation.

tjsunstein
10-03-2011, 04:49 PM
Good job trying to make an argument and posting the complete wrong stats.

Also, look at who the two teams have played. New Orleans, Carolina, Chicago, and Denver v. Miami, San Diego, Buffalo, and Oakland? The only team that's worse at defending against the pass than New Orleans and Carolina is New England.
Those stats are posted on NFL.com for all to see right now (http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?tabSeq=0&statisticCategory=PASSING&conference=null&season=2011&seasonType=REG&d-447263-s=PASSING_YARDS&d-447263-o=2&d-447263-n=1). The only stat that is wrong is Brady's completion percentage. I rounded up .1. That's my bad.

If you want to question the passing defense stats, that's also on NFL.com under team stats (http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?tabSeq=2&defensiveStatisticCategory=TEAM_PASSING&conference=ALL&role=OPP&season=2011&seasonType=REG&d-447263-s=PASSING_NET_YARDS_GAME_AVG&d-447263-o=1&d-447263-n=1). The Packers have given up the second most yards per game through the air. I even set up the links for you.

So you're telling me a quarterback is only as good as the pass defense he faces? Are you joking or...? You act like Rodgers' made the schedule and decided to face those teams. All he did was go out there an play near flawless games at the most important position on the field and pick up the W's along the way. Something Brady can't say.

I guess it must be weird for a Patriots fan now that everyone isn't all over Brady. It's not like you can turn this into a Brady/Manning debate like years past. So, I'll just chalk this up as an adjustment period for you until you make a valid point.

Your assumption that the Packers would still be 3-1 without Rodgers and the Patriots would be winless without Brady was never really a good backbone for an argument. Because there's no way to prove that and you're discounting what each player has done for their team up until this point.

And by that initial logic, Manning wins MVP yet again.

nepg
10-03-2011, 05:02 PM
Their passing yardage was conveniently swapped.

Did you even watch the Buffalo game? Brady had one pick that was on him. They lost that game because of their defense.

I didn't say anything about records of the two teams or what they would be without the QBs they currently have... Both teams have capable backups, so it's irrelevantly irrelevant.

Aaron Rodgers did make the schedule. That's how it works in the NFL. Brady clearly chose slightly harder pass defenses to play against.

You can say the Packers are the second worst until you're blue in the face, but they're still 30 ypg better than the Patriots, and the difference in yards for the Patriots comes at the worst possible moments in the game.

The Packers fans here get really ******* ******** about Aaron Rodgers. It's hilarious. Yeah, he's been extremely good this year. Brady's been better. I don't even know where you're trying to go with 90% of that post - generalizing Patriots fans and trying to talk for me? Seriously?

mqtirishfan
10-03-2011, 05:17 PM
Their passing yardage was conveniently swapped.

Did you even watch the Buffalo game? Brady had one pick that was on him. They lost that game because of their defense.

I didn't say anything about records of the two teams or what they would be without the QBs they currently have... Both teams have capable backups, so it's irrelevantly irrelevant.

Aaron Rodgers did make the schedule. That's how it works in the NFL. Brady clearly chose slightly harder pass defenses to play again

You can say the Packers are the second worst until you're blue in the face, but they're still 30 ypg better than the Patriots, and the difference in yards for the Patriots comes at the worst possible moments in the game.

The Packers fans here get really ******* ******** about Aaron Rodgers. It's hilarious. Yeah, he's been extremely good this year. Brady's been better. I don't even know where you're trying to go with 90% of that post - generalizing Patriots fans and trying to talk for me? Seriously?

That's the question, here. In what way has Brady been better? Yards and passing attempts? It's a real question, here. How has Brady been better in 2011?

OzTitan
10-03-2011, 05:22 PM
How the hell can Matthew Stafford be a comeback player if he never arrived in the first place? I respect him more than anything but jeez.

Yeah hate to be a homer here but...ummm.. Matt Hasselbeck?? Dude is on pace for his best season ever by far.

cmarq83
10-03-2011, 05:25 PM
Just stop it guys seriously. Both guys are having good seasons, in a value sense Brady is more valuable but Rodgers is playing better. I think Rodgers will start throwing some picks down the line, but it's not like statistically speaking they are that far off. Lets wait til week 8 until this debate gets really serious.

PACKmanN
10-03-2011, 05:36 PM
Just stop it guys seriously. Both guys are having good seasons, in a value sense Brady is more valuable but Rodgers is playing better. I think Rodgers will start throwing some picks down the line, but it's not like statistically speaking they are that far off. Lets wait til week 8 until this debate gets really serious.

why is it that every Pats fan can give his opinion in this thread on how they feel that Brady is more valuable or having a better season than Rodgers is yet not have any FACTS...

How is what Brady is to the Pats not what Rodgers is to the Packers...

Also, numbers wise, Rodgers is winning so on this imaginary line of value, how is Brady better...

tjsunstein
10-03-2011, 05:37 PM
Their passing yardage was conveniently swapped.

Did you even watch the Buffalo game? Brady had one pick that was on him. They lost that game because of their defense.

I didn't say anything about records of the two teams or what they would be without the QBs they currently have... Both teams have capable backups, so it's irrelevantly irrelevant.

Aaron Rodgers did make the schedule. That's how it works in the NFL. Brady clearly chose slightly harder pass defenses to play against.

You can say the Packers are the second worst until you're blue in the face, but they're still 30 ypg better than the Patriots, and the difference in yards for the Patriots comes at the worst possible moments in the game.

The Packers fans here get really ******* ******** about Aaron Rodgers. It's hilarious. Yeah, he's been extremely good this year. Brady's been better. I don't even know where you're trying to go with 90% of that post - generalizing Patriots fans and trying to talk for me? Seriously?
Didn't intentionally swap the passing yards. Even then, it doesn't make a difference.

This brings me back to the original point, how has Brady been better than Rodgers?

cmarq83
10-03-2011, 05:38 PM
why is it that every Pats fan can give his opinion in this thread on how they feel that Brady is more valuable or having a better season than Rodgers is yet not have any FACTS...

There are plenty of facts, yet Packers fans are choosing not to hear them which is fine, but saying zomgzzzzz Brady has 3 more interceptions isn't really an end all to a debate. There are a lot of different factors to look at.

tjsunstein
10-03-2011, 05:38 PM
Just stop it guys seriously. Both guys are having good seasons, in a value sense Brady is more valuable but Rodgers is playing better. I think Rodgers will start throwing some picks down the line, but it's not like statistically speaking they are that far off. Lets wait til week 8 until this debate gets really serious.
But again, the question remains how?

tjsunstein
10-03-2011, 05:39 PM
There are plenty of facts, yet Packers fans are choosing not to hear them which is fine, but saying zomgzzzzz Brady has 3 more interceptions isn't really an end all to a debate. There are a lot of different factors to look at.
Please enlighten us.

cmarq83
10-03-2011, 05:53 PM
It's pretty simple. Brady needs to be perfect in every sense of the word for the Patriots to win the game. The defense is literally on pace to be the worst one of all time in a yards per game sense, yet they're still 3-1 despite playing a pretty difficult schedule so far. Brady has come out and put up 30+ points on the board every game, and besides for the Buffalo game where some flukey things happened he's pretty much been perfect. I think without Rodgers the Packers would have scrapped out a victory yesterday and probably against the Panthers too, but without Brady the Patriots would be nowhere. Now I think it's pretty close right now the stats aren't really far off, and I don't really care who is the MVP 1/4 of the way through the season.

However, I find it very ironic how Packers fans are saying that Rodgers is the MVP to his crappy team when all we've heard the past year is how amazing everyone on the Packers roster is. I mean according to you guys Tramon Williams is the 3rd best cover corner in the game, Charles Woodsen is a DPOY candidate, Matthews is the best defensive player in the game, BJ Raji is the 2nd best NT in the game, Jermichael Finley is going to be the greatest thing since sliced bread, and Greg Jennings is a top 40 NFL player. I mean if everybody is as good as you guys think they are you'd be a juggernaught which you're not. So which is it are some of your guys overrated or is Rodgers not the most valuable player in the league? Because it can't be both.

tjsunstein
10-03-2011, 06:26 PM
It's pretty simple. Brady needs to be perfect in every sense of the word for the Patriots to win the game. The defense is literally on pace to be the worst one of all time in a yards per game sense, yet they're still 3-1 despite playing a pretty difficult schedule so far. Brady has come out and put up 30+ points on the board every game, and besides for the Buffalo game where some flukey things happened he's pretty much been perfect. I think without Rodgers the Packers would have scrapped out a victory yesterday and probably against the Panthers too, but without Brady the Patriots would be nowhere. Now I think it's pretty close right now the stats aren't really far off, and I don't really care who is the MVP 1/4 of the way through the season.

However, I find it very ironic how Packers fans are saying that Rodgers is the MVP to his crappy team when all we've heard the past year is how amazing everyone on the Packers roster is. I mean according to you guys Tramon Williams is the 3rd best cover corner in the game, Charles Woodsen is a DPOY candidate, Matthews is the best defensive player in the game, BJ Raji is the 2nd best NT in the game, Jermichael Finley is going to be the greatest thing since sliced bread, and Greg Jennings is a top 40 NFL player. I mean if everybody is as good as you guys think they are you'd be a juggernaught which you're not. So which is it are some of your guys overrated or is Rodgers not the most valuable player in the league? Because it can't be both.
I'm not saying that the Packers are a crappy team, they're the best in the NFL. I'm just saying that your terrible Patriots pass defense really isn't far worse than ours.

But who scores the most points on a week to week basis? Does it happen to be the Aaron Rodgers' led Packers? Look at that. You can't penalize a guy for having insane talent around him unless he does nothing with it. Right now, the Packers are 4-0, and the highest scoring offense in the league. Penalize Rodgers for having a better defense on the other side of the ball all you want but that doesn't effect his completion percentage, his QB rating, or the amount of interceptions he throws.

Give me a break with this pretty difficult schedule stuff. Rodgers has faced the Bears and Saints, both playoff teams last year. And if you don't think Rodgers had to be flawless to keep pace with the Saints then you'd be right because he set that pace, the high scoring affair in which we won. Brady has faced the Dolphins, Chargers, Bills, and Raiders. Some stellar defenses there.

It seems like you have an overall anti Packers attitude.

tjsunstein
10-03-2011, 06:32 PM
However, I find it very ironic how Packers fans are saying that Rodgers is the MVP to his crappy team when all we've heard the past year is how amazing everyone on the Packers roster is. I mean according to you guys Tramon Williams is the 3rd best cover corner in the game, Charles Woodsen is a DPOY candidate, Matthews is the best defensive player in the game, BJ Raji is the 2nd best NT in the game, Jermichael Finley is going to be the greatest thing since sliced bread, and Greg Jennings is a top 40 NFL player. I mean if everybody is as good as you guys think they are you'd be a juggernaught which you're not. So which is it are some of your guys overrated or is Rodgers not the most valuable player in the league? Because it can't be both.
Tramon Williams - Last year, he was. This year he's been banged up a little but he's still a top 7 corner.

Charles Woodson - He is a DPOY candidate and it's not just Packers fans saying it.

Clay Matthews - The argument could have been made last year but his production has fallen off due to inefficiency from our DL and lack of a pass rusher opposite of him.

BJ Raji - There aren't very many better than him, name 2.

Jermichael Finley - Is he not something to be excited about? As if we don't hear it from Patriots fans about Gronk and Hernandez.

Greg Jennings - Top 7 WR, who's going to dispute that?

But this all works against Rodgers because he's on the same team.

fenikz
10-03-2011, 06:37 PM
MVP: Aaron Rodgers
OPOY: Tom Brady
DPOY: Haloti Ngata
DROY: Ryan Kerrigan
OROY: Cam Newton

cmarq83
10-03-2011, 06:43 PM
I'm not saying that the Packers are a crappy team, they're the best in the NFL. I'm just saying that your terrible Patriots pass defense really isn't far worse than ours.

But who scores the most points on a week to week basis? Does it happen to be the Aaron Rodgers' led Packers? Look at that. You can't penalize a guy for having insane talent around him unless he does nothing with it. Right now, the Packers are 4-0, and the highest scoring offense in the league. Penalize Rodgers for having a better defense on the other side of the ball all you want but that doesn't effect his completion percentage, his QB rating, or the amount of interceptions he throws.

Give me a break with this pretty difficult schedule stuff. Rodgers has faced the Bears and Saints, both playoff teams last year. And if you don't think Rodgers had to be flawless to keep pace with the Saints then you'd be right because he set that pace, the high scoring affair in which we won. Brady has faced the Dolphins, Chargers, Bills, and Raiders. Some stellar defenses there.

It seems like you have an overall anti Packers attitude.


But that just shows your missing the entire point overall of value. If a guy has a lot of talent on his team that means he's not as valuable for his team's success because his team could do well otherwise without him. I've been on the Rodgers side of this debate before with Manning vs. Brady, and I know there is plenty of merit to this point, but nonetheless the name of the award is most valuable player. If it was the best player award by all means give it to Rodgers, but the two aren't really all that far off no matter what stats you want to consider important, Rodgers has QB Rating and less Int's, Brady has more yards and TD's. This is far from settled, and Brady or Rodgers could go out next week and royally f*** it up. However, being dismissive of another fans viewpoint with a pretty legitimate argument is pretty d***ish.

To your second point, I'm a Patriots fan which means the Packers are way down on my list of teams to hate on. I just see posts everyday talking about how all the Packers players are the best at their position in the league, and found it amusing that with such an amazing supporting cast Aaron Rodgers could be so vital to his terrible team's success.

cmarq83
10-03-2011, 06:46 PM
Tramon Williams - Last year, he was. This year he's been banged up a little but he's still a top 7 corner.

Charles Woodson - He is a DPOY candidate and it's not just Packers fans saying it.

Clay Matthews - The argument could have been made last year but his production has fallen off due to inefficiency from our DL and lack of a pass rusher opposite of him.

BJ Raji - There aren't very many better than him, name 2.

Jermichael Finley - Is he not something to be excited about? As if we don't hear it from Patriots fans about Gronk and Hernandez.

Greg Jennings - Top 7 WR, who's going to dispute that?

But this all works against Rodgers because he's on the same team.

You're making my point for me. I didn't even say everybody I was thinking of. Do you want to tell me how good and underrated Jordy, Burnett, Cobb, Sitton, and Shields are while we're at it?

JBCX
10-03-2011, 06:47 PM
According to Profootballfocus, Von Miller is the runaway defensive rookie of the year:

http://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2011/09/29/race-for-rookie-of-the-year-d-line-dominating/

Ryan Kerrigan isn't even in the discussion for top 10 rookies, according to their grading system.

mqtirishfan
10-03-2011, 06:55 PM
What's more valuable to a team than performing better than any other player in the game?

Saints-Tigers
10-03-2011, 06:55 PM
Brees is more vital to his team's success than Brady or Rodgers anyway, idk what all this babbling is about.

RufusMcDaniel
10-03-2011, 06:59 PM
Brees is more vital to his team's success than Brady or Rodgers anyway, idk what all this babbling is about.

So true....only scored 21 points for me yesterday....I lost by 8, previous three weeks, over 30....give him the MVP.

DoughBoy
10-03-2011, 06:59 PM
Peyton is definitely more vital to the colts success, look how many games they've lost without him! Peyton for MVP!

CC.SD
10-03-2011, 06:59 PM
According to Profootballfocus, Von Miller is the runaway defensive rookie of the year:

http://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2011/09/29/race-for-rookie-of-the-year-d-line-dominating/

Ryan Kerrigan isn't even in the discussion for top 10 rookies, according to their grading system.

Well i guess that makes their grading system pretty terrible

Flyboy
10-03-2011, 07:02 PM
Brees is more vital to his team's success than Brady or Rodgers anyway, idk what all this babbling is about.

Silly man. Brees will never be in MVP discussions.

tjsunstein
10-03-2011, 07:15 PM
However, being dismissive of another fans viewpoint with a pretty legitimate argument is pretty d***ish.

I wasn't being dismissive to your point, I just don't see it as fair to Rodgers when comparing what the two have done. It's like discounting Brady's record setting season because he had Moss. Put an asterisk next to it in the record books because the players around him were too good.

You're making my point for me. I didn't even say everybody I was thinking of. Do you want to tell me how good and underrated Jordy, Burnett, Cobb, Sitton, and Shields are while we're at it?
Well that all depends on where you rate them. Of course I'm going to make sure the players on my favorite team are getting their due respect. But, I'm not hesitant to point out their flaws just as quickly as am their strengths.

cmarq83
10-03-2011, 07:27 PM
I wasn't being dismissive to your point, I just don't see it as fair to Rodgers when comparing what the two have done. It's like discounting Brady's record setting season because he had Moss. Put an asterisk next to it in the record books because the players around him were too good.


Which is all well and good, but unfortunately that is what happens. Manning won over Brees in 2009 when Brees clearly had a better year statistically by an even greater margin than Rodgers has over Manning now. I agree with you and if I had a vote for MVP today I'd vote Rodgers. However, my NE fan counterparts bring up a good point, and the people who actually do vote for the MVP probably would agree with them. That is the way it works in the NFL. They're really not that far statistically off at this point, and with such a small sample size you can't really come up with a definitive conclusion either way.

It doesn't really matter anyways because Brady is the better QB and by the end of the year everyone will be reminded of why that is :p.

tjsunstein
10-03-2011, 07:30 PM
Well a discussion like this calls for one thing, and I normally don't do this, but a sig bet.
Aaron Rodgers wins MVP, you wear an Aaron Rodgers sig until the next MVP is named.
Tom Brady wins MVP, I wear a Brady sig until the next MVP is named.

Deal or no deal?

Saints-Tigers
10-03-2011, 07:38 PM
Remove Brees, Brady, Rodgers.

What team would you take?

Now who finishes with the best record?

Which order do the offenses finish in?

cmarq83
10-03-2011, 07:40 PM
Well a discussion like this calls for one thing, and I normally don't do this, but a sig bet.
Aaron Rodgers wins MVP, you wear an Aaron Rodgers sig until the next MVP is named.
Tom Brady wins MVP, I wear a Brady sig until the next MVP is named.

Deal or no deal?

I'm going to pass on that one. I really don't like QB's and I would hate to have one as a sig. Rodgers has a pretty realistic shot at winning so that's not really a chance I want to take. I will however write "Aaron Rodgers is a better QB than Tom Brady" and quote it under my sig until the draft if he wins MVP, if you agree to do the same for Tom Brady.

tjsunstein
10-03-2011, 08:02 PM
I'm going to pass on that one. I really don't like QB's and I would hate to have one as a sig. Rodgers has a pretty realistic shot at winning so that's not really a chance I want to take. I will however write "Aaron Rodgers is a better QB than Tom Brady" and quote it under my sig until the draft if he wins MVP, if you agree to do the same for Tom Brady.
I'll take that as a consolation prize.

DoughBoy
10-03-2011, 08:13 PM
wrong thread.

:(

wogitalia
10-03-2011, 08:18 PM
I don't get this arguement.

So the Patriots fans think that having a worse record, against a pretty much identical level of opposition(if anything the Saints would give the Packers the edge) with similar levels of talent on offense make Brady more valuable?

Hate that arguement, argue that he has played better but don't make up hypotheticals that Rodgers is less valuable because his team is doing better with him there. The MVP isn't won by not playing, otherwise Manning would be the front runner right now because he is currently proving his value far more than Rodgers/Brady by your ridiculous arguement.

That is the best part of the the arguement to me. Right now Manning is the QB making the best case for his "value" if value is simply how awful you think the team is without said player, lets be honest you don't have a clue how that plays out, couple of years ago Brady's team did pretty damn alright, much better than anyone anticipated, what's to say that wouldn't happen again. The Packers haven't won without Rodgers in a couple of years, what's to say that would change if he went down? By your own criteria, seemingly the only case that multiple fans have been able to construct, Manning is the MVP.

So yeah... in short, MVP goes to the guy who is playing the best football and leading his team to wins in the process. That is Rodgers so far this season. I mean honestly, Brady has one game where his play was a major part in the loss, Rodgers just has 4 games where his play was the major reason for a win.

Complex
10-03-2011, 08:18 PM
Calvin Johnson for MVP.


If its between Brady and Rodgers, Rodgers should be in 1st. He is undefeated and has played great in all 4 games. LoL at the bad pass defense argument if that was the case Peyton should have won like 10 MVP trophies for having a crappy defense most of his career. Except when the won the superbowl which the defense carried in like 2-4 playoff games you could argue 3-4 but w/e.

nepg
10-03-2011, 08:34 PM
Didn't intentionally swap the passing yards. Even then, it doesn't make a difference.

This brings me back to the original point, how has Brady been better than Rodgers?
Just watching Brady. He's been better. He's on a "go-to" level with 4 different receivers. Rodgers spreads the ball around, but who does he really trust when **** gets hairy? Brady used to have Branch, then Welker...now he has Welker, Branch, Gronk, and there is an argument that Hernandez is his #1 (been injured).

There's a difference between having a great receiving group, and being on the level Brady is at with his guys. I'd say the Packers receiving group is much better. They have 5 guys that can beat you deep and still have their TEs and all of their receivers are pretty big targets. Rodgers does really well because he has great receivers and because he's really good, but I don't get that he has even close to the level of trust or chemistry with any of his guys that Brady has with 4 of his.

And I'm not saying "Brady does more with less." So don't bother going there. It's just a different level of communication, and it's been on full display so far this year.

mqtirishfan
10-03-2011, 08:44 PM
Just watching Brady. He's been better. He's on a "go-to" level with 4 different receivers. Rodgers spreads the ball around, but who does he really trust when **** gets hairy? Brady used to have Branch, then Welker...now he has Welker, Branch, Gronk, and there is an argument that Hernandez is his #1 (been injured).

Jennings and Finley times infinity. Also, Nelson.

OSUGiants17
10-03-2011, 08:44 PM
MVP: Tom Brady
OPOY: Megatron
DPOY: JPP- random homer pick since there is no front runner
OROY: Julio Jones- Cam will come back to reality eventually and Julio will keep tearing it up thanks to the help around him
DROY: Vonn Miller
Coach of the Year: Detroit Lions
Comeback Player of the Year: Matthew Stafford

PACKmanN
10-03-2011, 08:51 PM
It's pretty simple. Brady needs to be perfect in every sense of the word for the Patriots to win the game. The defense is literally on pace to be the worst one of all time in a yards per game sense, yet they're still 3-1 despite playing a pretty difficult schedule so far. Brady has come out and put up 30+ points on the board every game, and besides for the Buffalo game where some flukey things happened he's pretty much been perfect. I think without Rodgers the Packers would have scrapped out a victory yesterday and probably against the Panthers too, but without Brady the Patriots would be nowhere. Now I think it's pretty close right now the stats aren't really far off, and I don't really care who is the MVP 1/4 of the way through the season.

However, I find it very ironic how Packers fans are saying that Rodgers is the MVP to his crappy team when all we've heard the past year is how amazing everyone on the Packers roster is. I mean according to you guys Tramon Williams is the 3rd best cover corner in the game, Charles Woodsen is a DPOY candidate, Matthews is the best defensive player in the game, BJ Raji is the 2nd best NT in the game, Jermichael Finley is going to be the greatest thing since sliced bread, and Greg Jennings is a top 40 NFL player. I mean if everybody is as good as you guys think they are you'd be a juggernaught which you're not. So which is it are some of your guys overrated or is Rodgers not the most valuable player in the league? Because it can't be both.
everything you said can be said about Rodgers...

If you believe a Matt Flynn lead offense can beat the Bears and Saints than you must believe in unicorns too...

Nobody excpeted a slow start on defense this year. We can discuss how good some of our guys were, but we can only PREDICT how they will do the following year

tjsunstein
10-03-2011, 10:35 PM
Just watching Brady. He's been better. He's on a "go-to" level with 4 different receivers. Rodgers spreads the ball around, but who does he really trust when **** gets hairy? Brady used to have Branch, then Welker...now he has Welker, Branch, Gronk, and there is an argument that Hernandez is his #1 (been injured).

There's a difference between having a great receiving group, and being on the level Brady is at with his guys. I'd say the Packers receiving group is much better. They have 5 guys that can beat you deep and still have their TEs and all of their receivers are pretty big targets. Rodgers does really well because he has great receivers and because he's really good, but I don't get that he has even close to the level of trust or chemistry with any of his guys that Brady has with 4 of his.

And I'm not saying "Brady does more with less." So don't bother going there. It's just a different level of communication, and it's been on full display so far this year.
What the hell kind of argument is this? Have you seen Rodgers to Jennings? Nelson? Finley even? Do yourself a favor and watch some Rodgers' highlight. The chemistry between Rodgers and Jennings is up there with the best of them.

MichaelJordanEberle (sabf)
10-03-2011, 11:01 PM
When did they rename the MVP award the "Guy with the crappier backup" award?

I don't care if his defense is worse. I wouldn't take a boring old rock surrounded by dog **** as more valuable than a diamond surrounded by gold just because the gold is better than the dog ****. Give me that diamond, it's more valuable. And Aaron Rodgers is a diamond. How do you stop him? He'll kill you with the scramble if you let him. And he'll kill through the air just as quickly. Deep passes, short passes, medium passes, Aaron Rodgers doesn't give a ****.

Raiderz4Life
10-03-2011, 11:24 PM
lol so it went from Manning vs Brady to Brady vs Rodgers? Nice.

Since we're all being homers anyways,

Run DMC for M-V-P

tjsunstein
10-03-2011, 11:42 PM
lol so it went from Manning vs Brady to Brady vs Rodgers? Nice.

Since we're all being homers anyways,

Run DMC for M-V-P
I wouldn't even consider that being a homer. McFadden has been awesome and is definitely top 5, maybe even 3, when looking at MVPs so far.

Complex
10-03-2011, 11:46 PM
Matt Hasslebeck for MVP with out him we would be 0-4. We seen the Pats without Brady and packers with out Rodgers. They would still be competitive and probably a playoff team.Its obvious that Matt Hasslebeck is the most valuable player and come back player of the year.

http://fastcache.gawkerassets.com/assets/images/11/2007/01/hasselbeckshirtless.jpg

DanZilla
10-04-2011, 12:09 AM
how would the Packers be 3-1 without Rodgers.
Matt Flynn plays pretty well when given the opportunity

DanZilla
10-04-2011, 12:20 AM
Coach of the Year: Detroit Lions

Come on son, you don't have 2 minutes to look up who is the Detroit Lions coach? lol

SickwithIt1010
10-04-2011, 12:31 AM
A-Rod is the MVP right now....no questions asked.

I got blasted for saying it during the off-season when I said that he is the best QB in football right now...but for some reason more and more people are saying it now. The guy is on a different level right now.

the new jesus
10-17-2011, 05:31 PM
Can't disagree with Schefter...

Adam Schefter answers reader questions in his mailbag every Monday and Wednesday. Got a query of your own? Submit it here.

Q: Who do you think has been the NFL MVP so far this season? Tom Brady or Aaron Rodgers? Is anyone else in the running?

-- Torrance (Va.)

A: Rodgers is playing at the highest level in the game right now, Torrance. He is the conductor of an orchestra, and his team is making music. The Packers still haven't lost. No team really has slowed down Rodgers, and he has done it for the better part of the past two weeks without his starting left tackle, Chad Clifton. Brady has been great, Calvin Johnson has been off the charts, even Patrick Willis has been a total stud. But Rodgers is my six-week MVP, for whatever that's worth.

A-Rod is clear cut favourite for MVP through 6 weeks.

Bengalsrocket
10-17-2011, 06:30 PM
MVP: Tom Brady
OPOY: Megatron
DPOY: JPP- random homer pick since there is no front runner
OROY: Julio Jones- Cam will come back to reality eventually and Julio will keep tearing it up thanks to the help around him
DROY: Vonn Miller
Coach of the Year: Detroit Lions
Comeback Player of the Year: Matthew Stafford

A.J. Green out plays Julio Jones on every level catching the ball. Dalton is going to win the award anyways though!

Splat
10-17-2011, 06:33 PM
The A.J. Green vs Julio Jones debate reminds me of the never ending Tom Brady vs Peyton Manning debate.

Rabscuttle
10-17-2011, 06:57 PM
So about Suh....

Yesterday he was beat like a rented mule by backup right guard Chilo Rachal. His only attempt to exert a physical presence was after getting himself sealed on a Gore touchdown run. Other than that, he spent the day looking like an old man who's lost his car in a mall parking lot. He was confused and overwhelmed all day long. He had no clue if the play was run or pass and was trapped with ease. Bizzarre for someone that people are touting as DPOY