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Caulibflower
10-08-2011, 03:32 PM
Looking through box scores noticed a "D. Carr" was quarterbacking Fresno State, and sure enough, it's David's little brother. So did a little looking around... RS sophomore, in his first full season as a starter. Highly recruited, set a bunch of prep records, has good size, is a really good athlete... I've always thought of David Carr as a guy who could've been a good player if he hadn't gotten absolutely destroyed his first few years in the NFL. So Derek's got those athletic genes, he's got the advice and knowledge that comes from being in a football football family. I haven't seen many of his throws, but Youtube tells me he made Sportscenter's top 10 a few weeks ago for a diving TD run against Nebraska. (Fresno State bio says he set the QB 40 record with a 4.59)

Anybody follow Fresno State? Is he a guy to keep an eye on?

Hurricanes25
10-08-2011, 03:58 PM
His "style" reminds me a lot of his brother.

Caulibflower
10-08-2011, 04:17 PM
I thought so too, in the little I've seen. Not sure what that would mean, exactly, though.

Raiderz4Life
10-08-2011, 04:57 PM
I thought so too, in the little I've seen. Not sure what that would mean, exactly, though.

Well Carr was a good college QB and a really good prospect. So in terms of collegiate play I don't think its a bad thing.

lod01
10-11-2011, 07:00 PM
His "style" reminds me a lot of his brother.

That's not a good thing.

tjsunstein
10-11-2011, 07:15 PM
That's not a good thing.
How is that not a good thing? Carr's 'style' in college was so highly regarded, he was picked first overall. I think those scouts would beg to differ with you. He was never developed well on an expansion team. Then he took a beating, and that will kill any QB's confidence, see Cutler.

lod01
10-11-2011, 07:28 PM
How is that not a good thing? Carr's 'style' in college was so highly regarded, he was picked first overall. I think those scouts would beg to differ with you. He was never developed well on an expansion team. Then he took a beating, and that will kill any QB's confidence, see Cutler.

No he was flat out horrible. It had nothing to do with being on an expansion team. When Kubiak arrived as head coach, Carr was in about his 5th or 6th year. Don't remember the exact thing that happened but, Kubiak said something along the lines of 'You've been in the league this long how can you not know that.? Like I said, don't remember what 'that' was, but it was NFL QB 101. THAT has nothing to do with his being on a expansion team and everything to do with him just sucking as an NFL QB. Which he did and still does...somehow cashing paychecks too.

Let me add that around that same time, he was still running out of bounds for losses = sacks, instead of throwing the ball away. Thats how bad he sucked. He couldn't grasp that simple QB skill.

How about this one. My favorite. Gus Johnson announcing. 'Carr......Carr......Carr.....' (all the while guys runnning free in the open field including one guy 10 yards in front of him on a crossing route. Wide open. Sack. Gus just screaming, "you have to throw the ball'.

Everyone was blamed for his suckage except him. OL, WR's, coaching. RB. Finally they figured it out.

shylo3716
10-11-2011, 07:44 PM
Will he be "penalized" by scouts for being little Carr?

lod01
10-15-2011, 11:43 AM
Will he be "penalized" by scouts for being little Carr?

I wouldn't say penalized but they will definately look at the things Carr did wrong consistently and see if this Carr does the same. Read this the other day that Jim Harbaugh had a low grade on David Carr coming out. Somehow he is working incredible magic with Alex Smith so he seems to have a QB eye.

Matthew Jones
10-15-2011, 12:45 PM
I watched some of the Boise St. game last week but things were getting pretty ugly. Based on that game, I wouldn't say he made a good impression at all, but his team was clearly outclassed as well.

soybean
11-25-2012, 01:29 AM
Well he just concluded his Junior Season with

3290 yards on 66 percent passing.

32 TDs and 5 INTs.

Any shot at the next level?

TACKLE
11-25-2012, 01:31 AM
Well he just concluded his Junior Season with

3290 yards on 66 percent passing.

32 TDs and 5 INTs.

Any shot at the next level?

Yes but next year. He announced that he'll be returning (https://twitter.com/FSAthletics/status/272494714387824640) for his senior year.

Caulibflower
11-25-2012, 02:48 AM
Don't remember the exact thing that happened but, Kubiak said something along the lines of 'You've been in the league this long how can you not know that.? Like I said, don't remember what 'that' was, but it was NFL QB 101. THAT has nothing to do with his being on a expansion team and everything to do with him just sucking as an NFL QB.

No, that's exactly the hallmark of bad teaching.

Caulibflower
11-25-2012, 02:57 AM
Just watched him vs Oregon. He's not very good. My inner GM isn't interested.

Chucktown_Lurker
12-03-2012, 12:15 PM
Just watched him vs Oregon. He's not very good. My inner GM isn't interested.

I'm wondering if this thought remains now that the season is over...

norcalgsr
12-03-2012, 07:45 PM
Here is the Boise State game in case no one has not seen it:

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norcalgsr
12-03-2012, 07:47 PM
I'm wondering if this thought remains now that the season is over...

One bowl game left.

But overall Carr has a great arm with poor footwork. Falls and spins away from pressure on his throws too much.

lod01
12-10-2012, 11:47 AM
One bowl game left.

But overall Carr has a great arm with poor footwork. Falls and spins away from pressure on his throws too much.

Does he run out of bounds for losses, (instead of throwing the ball away), like his cowardly big brother, too?

Cigaro
12-10-2012, 12:06 PM
No he was flat out horrible. It had nothing to do with being on an expansion team. When Kubiak arrived as head coach, Carr was in about his 5th or 6th year. Don't remember the exact thing that happened but, Kubiak said something along the lines of 'You've been in the league this long how can you not know that.? Like I said, don't remember what 'that' was, but it was NFL QB 101. THAT has nothing to do with his being on a expansion team and everything to do with him just sucking as an NFL QB. Which he did and still does...somehow cashing paychecks too.

Like CaulibFlower pointed out, that is the textbook definition of not being developed and coached well. You literally made his point with that quote.

YAYareaRB
12-11-2012, 02:12 PM
Like CaulibFlower pointed out, that is the textbook definition of not being developed and coached well. You literally made his point with that quote.

Oh you guys didn't know? Quarterbacks are born with NFL QB 101 knowledge. Either that or they teach themselves because every coach is a great QB mentor and developer. Doyyy!!!

jrdrylie
12-21-2013, 06:08 PM
I wasn't too impressed with Carr today. He was under pressure a lot today but I thought he missed some throws, especially deep balls.

lod01
12-21-2013, 06:39 PM
Dude is garbage.

Definitely David Carr II.

lod01
12-21-2013, 06:41 PM
Oh you guys didn't know? Quarterbacks are born with NFL QB 101 knowledge. Either that or they teach themselves because every coach is a great QB mentor and developer. Doyyy!!!

Well, years after he was drafted, he was still running out of bounds with the football behind the LOS. He couldn't grasp the basic 101 QB of 'throw it away'.

coach4fu
12-21-2013, 08:32 PM
David will be fine...outstanding prospect who needs to work on his footwork. Basing him on today's game is ridiculous. Missing one of his stud receivers and his line was clearly overmatched. Offensive Coordinator was off as well it appeared.

twiz
12-21-2013, 08:48 PM
Dude is garbage.

Definitely David Carr II.

Insightful.

rawdawg
12-21-2013, 09:01 PM
Bad game. Will have a chance to get some of the luster back in the Senior Bowl, but worst case, he's a top 15-20 pick instead of the 5-10 pick he looked like most of the season.

His flaws haven't changed (inconsistent footwork, mechanics, ability to handle pressure).

RaiderNation
12-21-2013, 11:39 PM
His stock has to drop after today, i would say he's a late 1st instead of top 20

Caulibflower
12-22-2013, 12:03 AM
It isn't "dropping" for me; today, against a better defense, just revealed what he is.

fredder
12-22-2013, 12:44 AM
It isn't "dropping" for me; today, against a better defense, just revealed what he is.

Agreed. I'll admit that I didn't watch the game but this is what I thought when I saw the box score. I think he was already exposed earlier in the season by San Diego State. The only game I've watched of him that impressed me was the Boise State game. However, I'm fully expecting his stock to soar this offseason and for him to be drafted top 10 and possible top 5. He's going to impress in workouts with his arm strength, accuracy, and athleticism and some team is going to combine that with his gaudy stats and fall in love.

I think his ceiling is a Tony Romo type of player where he has some good games and posts some nice stats but is never able to make the plays or win the games he needs to to achieve anything significant in the NFL. Obviously his floor is David Carr 2.0.

nepg
12-22-2013, 01:13 AM
His team was exposed... I don't see much wrong with Carr.

Caulibflower
12-22-2013, 02:17 AM
Agreed. I'll admit that I didn't watch the game but this is what I thought when I saw the box score. I think he was already exposed earlier in the season by San Diego State. The only game I've watched of him that impressed me was the Boise State game. However, I'm fully expecting his stock to soar this offseason and for him to be drafted top 10 and possible top 5. He's going to impress in workouts with his arm strength, accuracy, and athleticism and some team is going to combine that with his gaudy stats and fall in love.

I think his ceiling is a Tony Romo type of player where he has some good games and posts some nice stats but is never able to make the plays or win the games he needs to to achieve anything significant in the NFL. Obviously his floor is David Carr 2.0.

I shouldn't have said "revealed." I should have said "confirmed." I fully expected his sort of game from him against USC. Tons of attempts, but low yardage because the only throws he can consistly make are drags and screens, his receivers can't inflate his stats with YAC playing against a better team, and he's not consistent enough with his deep throws to make defenses back up, and the problem is made worse by pressure. He's just not that good. I'll always acknowledge that he can make some beautiful throws, but that's also what I said about Geno Smith last year. Awful lot of similarities between those two in my mind. Except I think Geno's tougher.

twiz
12-22-2013, 05:18 AM
I didn't get to watch the game, so I'd like to ask how much can be attributed to the talent around him, and how much was just Carr struggling against USC.

rawdawg
12-22-2013, 08:38 AM
I didn't get to watch the game, so I'd like to ask how much can be attributed to the talent around him, and how much was just Carr struggling against USC.

It was everything. His OL isn't very good. They've been able to get away with it all year against the level of competition though. He struggled under heavy pressure. His WRs couldn't get separation. He struggled to fit the ball in. He also flat out missed a good handful of throws.

Like was said, he confirmed what he is. QB with a great arm, needs protection, struggles with footwork. He's a much better prospect than Geno Smith though. Better arm, better decision making, better at reading defenses.

Iamcanadian
12-22-2013, 08:49 AM
He's a high 1st round talent but a lot of GM's will wonder if he could turnout as his brother did and it may cause him to slip much deeper into the draft.
It is only human nature to wonder if their football D.N.A. is similar.

nepg
12-22-2013, 09:02 AM
He's a high 1st round talent but a lot of GM's will wonder if he could turnout as his brother did and it may cause him to slip much deeper into the draft.
It is only human nature to wonder if their football D.N.A. is similar.
In which they both get drafted by teams that can't block and have no receivers? lol.

Nameless Ghoul
12-22-2013, 09:08 AM
I still think he's 1st round talent. Can you imagine if he was on Alabama or USC? I mean, C'mon man... There is a lot to like with Carr. He has some issues that need to be cleaned up but with teams picking in the top 10, starving for a QB... he's worth the risk.

Matthew Jones
12-22-2013, 09:14 AM
I could see him ending up as a Christian Ponder-caliber player.

Babylon
12-22-2013, 11:11 AM
I didn't get to watch the game, so I'd like to ask how much can be attributed to the talent around him, and how much was just Carr struggling against USC.

I think the defense forced him to play faster than he should. I don't like all the bubble screens either when trying to evaluate someone.

There were areas I was impressed. He has a strong arm and seems like a leader who also is very good at reading defenses. The problem was on the deep balls where i think he could have stepped into some of them throws rather than putting so much air under his passes. His receivers didn't do him any favors.

Bottom line for me I think he can be a good pro but not sure his play justifies going in the first few picks.

princefielder28
12-22-2013, 11:48 AM
His team was exposed... I don't see much wrong with Carr.

This is how I feel too. Fresno has a terrible offensive line and outside of Adams the receivers are nothing special. USC's tremendous athleticism and physicality were too much for the Bulldogs and any quarterback was going to struggle with those circumstances.

YotoJets007
12-23-2013, 04:21 PM
Fresno State offensive system is awful. SMU and USC used speed to disrupt the offensive timing. Once timing is gone, there is no offense. Peyton Manning or Aaron Rodgers or even Andrew Luck won't keep this offense alive.


Carr is a disciplined player who has done a lot of homework/study and fitness exercise. His footwork still needs some works but as long as he is practicing under pro he will be fine. He will need to play in NFL games to learn more about him as a pro. Right now, he is a 1st round talent.

MassNole
12-23-2013, 04:32 PM
Fresno State offensive system is awful. SMU and USC used speed to disrupt the offensive timing. Once timing is gone, there is no offense. Peyton Manning or Aaron Rodgers or even Andrew Luck won't keep this offense alive.


To be fair they would all likely make presnap reads that would get the offense out of a doomed play before it ever happened and check into something that would have a chance to be successful. Now I don't know if Derek Carr is allowed to do this in Fresno State's offense or not or if audibles come in from the sideline and he has no freedom to change.

YotoJets007
12-23-2013, 04:38 PM
To be fair they would all likely make presnap reads that would get the offense out of a doomed play before it ever happened and check into something that would have a chance to be successful. Now I don't know if Derek Carr is allowed to do this in Fresno State's offense or not or if audibles come in from the sideline and he has no freedom to change.

I would answer to that if I had watched all FSU games. lol. When I watched bowl games I didn't recall Bulldogs ever made audibles. No huddle was present as far as I know of.

vikes_28
12-23-2013, 05:01 PM
I could see him ending up as a Christian Ponder-caliber player.

Oh my gosh. Please don't say that.

MassNole
12-23-2013, 05:02 PM
I would answer to that if I had watched all FSU games. lol. When I watched bowl games I didn't recall Bulldogs ever made audibles. No huddle was present as far as I know of.

Noonkick.com has 8 Fresno State games up and I think there is another on ESPN3. (http://noonkick.com/team/fresno-state/)

fredder
12-24-2013, 10:17 PM
I finally got to watch the game tape from the Las Vegas Bowl and I completely disagree with the people saying that his poor performance was due to an inferior talent level. USC's gameplan was to stop the WR screens and to bring pressure and Carr was unable to make plays downfield when he had time which was the real reason why it was such a blowout. He overthrew multiple open receivers on plays that should have gone for touchdowns and most of those bad throws were due to poor mechanics in the pocket.

I don't think this is a true depiction of his pro potential, as he definitely had an off game, but this game does showcase the concerns that most people have with him and shows why these concerns bring into question his abilities to succeed at the next level.

nepg
12-24-2013, 10:32 PM
I mean, people talk about footwork with Carr... Every QB going into the NFL has weak footwork. It's also the easiest thing for NFL coaches to fix with a young QB.

wojo
12-25-2013, 02:42 AM
I would be pissed if my team drafted him in the first round.

Caulibflower
12-26-2013, 04:46 AM
t8zGUnF3atI

Here's the footage vs USC. also wanted to mention something I've noticed before and I see again here. Aside from the generally sporadic accuracy, he very, very often looks in the direction he intends to throw before the snap. It's like a nervous thing he does, and if you watch for it, you'll see it. You'll often see his head almost twitching to one side, and then as soon as the ball is snapped he's looking to that side of the field for the receiver he wants to throw to. To me, that looks like a quarterback who doesn't trust the plays and the route progressions, and wants to see every part of the play, and that's a big red flag for me. One of the most important things an NFL quarterback needs to be able to do is look off his receivers, and Carr doesn't do that. It can be taught, sure, but it's another thing about his game that I don't like very much.

princefielder28
12-26-2013, 08:10 AM
I would be wary of basing an assessment of Carr's game off the USC game strictly. Fresno has inferior talent to USC, especially in the trenches, and mentally that creates a quick clock in the head of the quarterback when you constantly have players at your feet. USC came in with a great defensive gameplan and gave Carr fits with their pre-snap alignment and then giving a different look following. Are there some concerns with Carr's game? I am not trying to deny that but from a talent/ability standpoint, there might not be any senior signal caller with more ability and Bridgewater may be the only eligible one overall.

regoob2
12-26-2013, 12:35 PM
I would be wary of basing an assessment of Carr's game off the USC game strictly. Fresno has inferior talent to USC, especially in the trenches, and mentally that creates a quick clock in the head of the quarterback when you constantly have players at your feet. USC came in with a great defensive gameplan and gave Carr fits with their pre-snap alignment and then giving a different look following. Are there some concerns with Carr's game? I am not trying to deny that but from a talent/ability standpoint, there might not be any senior signal caller with more ability and Bridgewater may be the only eligible one overall.

All USC did was take away the gimmick to there offense. Take away the WR screen and the read option and they made them actually beat them. Carr couldn't make the throws. He's great at those screens but who isn't? His poor accuracy, footwork and decision making were evident just like it was last year. The system this season masked his flaws. He's done nothing I want my NFL starter to do. He's got a cannon but lots of bad QBs do.

FUNBUNCHER
12-26-2013, 12:38 PM
Can someone tell me why is big brother David bombed in the pros?? And please go deeper than he was ruined by a bad oline in Houston early in his career.

From a distance I always felt that brother David suffered from performance anxiety in the pros and psychologically couldn't handle the step up in competition.

Did Derek at least have a series against USC where he looked sharp and in command of his offense??
Did he complete any passes greater than 25+ yards downfield in that game??

I still think overall Carr is a 1st round talent and will be among the first 3 QBs drafted, but he still worries me.

MassNole
12-26-2013, 12:43 PM
David struggled in the pros because he couldn't read a defense and make proper adjustments. He was able to be lazy with reads and throws at Fresno State and in the NFL these faults were badly exposed. Playing behind a dreadful OL only compounded these inadequacies and mentally ruined him from there on out. Asking a rookie to start for an expansion team is generally career suicide.

rawdawg
12-26-2013, 01:45 PM
Granted it's been in preseason, but Carr had a pretty good run with the Giants. Completed 62.3% of his passes, 1,572 passing yards with 13 TDs and 2 INTs in like 5 years as a Giant in preseason. I think him being ruined by being sacked so much early is a legit thing. I didn't see a guy that couldn't read defenses. It was a horrible situation and he was never given a chance to recover and start again. I think he could have salvaged a few years as a mid-tier starter or better in this league.

Caulibflower
12-26-2013, 03:01 PM
I would be wary of basing an assessment of Carr's game off the USC game strictly. Fresno has inferior talent to USC, especially in the trenches, and mentally that creates a quick clock in the head of the quarterback when you constantly have players at your feet. USC came in with a great defensive gameplan and gave Carr fits with their pre-snap alignment and then giving a different look following. Are there some concerns with Carr's game? I am not trying to deny that but from a talent/ability standpoint, there might not be any senior signal caller with more ability and Bridgewater may be the only eligible one overall.

I'm not basing the evaluation solely on the USC game, though it was probably the best defense he played. I don't buy the inferior talent angle, either. He was missing wide open receivers. They don't get wide open by having inferior talent; he just couldn't handle the increased pressure and maintain his accuracy. There's going to be even more pressure in the pros most of the time.

regoob2
12-26-2013, 03:06 PM
I'm not basing the evaluation solely on the USC game, though it was probably the best defense he played. I don't buy the inferior talent angle, either. He was missing wide open receivers. They don't get wide open by having inferior talent; he just couldn't handle the increased pressure and maintain his accuracy. There's going to be even more pressure in the pros most of the time.

His accuracy was bad but also (like his entire career) he was horrible after the first read. He either forces the ball into the first read or he is completely flustered. His deep ball is the same as Jimmy Clausen. He tosses up a 50/50 ball and hopes his receiver comes down with it.

lod01
12-26-2013, 07:04 PM
David struggled in the pros because he couldn't read a defense and make proper adjustments. He was able to be lazy with reads and throws at Fresno State and in the NFL these faults were badly exposed. Playing behind a dreadful OL only compounded these inadequacies and mentally ruined him from there on out. Asking a rookie to start for an expansion team is generally career suicide.

This is accurate but he would have flopped regardless of OL. He didn't know the basics of QB in the NFL when Kubiak arrived. That was like 4 years into his career. Kubiak was shocked when he talked with Carr at how little he knew.

Carr failed because he just wasn't NFL material.

lod01
12-26-2013, 07:05 PM
I'm not basing the evaluation solely on the USC game, though it was probably the best defense he played. I don't buy the inferior talent angle, either. He was missing wide open receivers. They don't get wide open by having inferior talent; he just couldn't handle the increased pressure and maintain his accuracy. There's going to be even more pressure in the pros most of the time.

Same thing happened to big bro.

SchizophrenicBatman
12-26-2013, 11:27 PM
Can someone tell me why is big brother David bombed in the pros?? And please go deeper than he was ruined by a bad oline in Houston early in his career.

From a distance I always felt that brother David suffered from performance anxiety in the pros and psychologically couldn't handle the step up in competition.

Did Derek at least have a series against USC where he looked sharp and in command of his offense??
Did he complete any passes greater than 25+ yards downfield in that game??

I still think overall Carr is a 1st round talent and will be among the first 3 QBs drafted, but he still worries me.

David Carr was an athlete trying to play quarterback. That doesn't cut it in the pros.

Heisman
01-03-2014, 03:36 AM
Is Derek Carr's habit of throwing off his back foot due to lack of toughness and pocket presense? Or is it just bad footwork?

Is there a way to definitively tell?

regoob2
01-03-2014, 01:01 PM
Is Derek Carr's habit of throwing off his back foot due to lack of toughness and pocket presense? Or is it just bad footwork?

Is there a way to definitively tell?

Both. Toughness or however you want to word it is definitely a possibility though.

fredder
01-03-2014, 02:22 PM
Is Derek Carr's habit of throwing off his back foot due to lack of toughness and pocket presense? Or is it just bad footwork?

Is there a way to definitively tell?

I have to agree that it's a combination of both. He definitely shows signs of being rattled when things aren't going well and that's really when you see his footwork suffer. Usually this results in the offense running a few screens in a row to settle him down and get him back in rhythm.

gpngc
03-19-2014, 10:50 AM
He's the anti-Jake Locker.

Everything Locker lacked, Carr has (accuracy, production, ability to play from the pocket). Everything Carr lacks, Locker had (toughness against pressure, ability to make plays outside the pocket).

If you could combine them both together, you'd have Andrew Luck.

There's a lot to like with Carr. But that USC game is brutal. However, that's by far his worst game. It's just concerning that's his last game.

FUNBUNCHER
03-19-2014, 10:56 AM
On NFLN someone argued if Derek didn't have the same last name as his big brother, he'd be talked about as one of the top 3 QB prospects in this draft.

I kinda agree with this opinion.
With his tools and the numbers Carr put up at Fresno St., I think we'd be giving Carr a pass on his flaws and not be worried that his brother's failures in the NFL might be genetic.

PoopSandwich
03-19-2014, 11:12 AM
On NFLN someone argued if Derek didn't have the same last name as his big brother, he'd be talked about as one of the top 3 QB prospects in this draft.

I kinda agree with this opinion.
With his tools and the numbers Carr put up at Fresno St., I think we'd be giving Carr a pass on his flaws and not be worried that his brother's failures in the NFL might be genetic.

Every highlight I have seen of him he chucks the ball up with a **** spiral and hopes his receiver comes down with it. I know that's limited but I haven't seen like epic ball placement or play making ability of any sorts. I doubt he would be a "top 3 prospect" without his name considering the following.

1. This draft is loaded
2. Numbers at Fresno State of all places don't really mean that much
3. If he was a top 3 prospect no one would give a **** about his name

FUNBUNCHER
03-19-2014, 11:14 AM
Every highlight I have seen of him he chucks the ball up with a **** spiral and hopes his receiver comes down with it. I know that's limited but I haven't seen like epic ball placement or play making ability of any sorts. I doubt he would be a "top 3 prospect" without his name considering the following.

1. This draft is loaded
2. Numbers at Fresno State of all places don't really mean that much
3. If he was a top 3 prospect no one would give a **** about his name


Top 3 QUARTERBACK prospect, not top 3 overall prospect.

fredder
03-19-2014, 11:24 AM
On NFLN someone argued if Derek didn't have the same last name as his big brother, he'd be talked about as one of the top 3 QB prospects in this draft.

I kinda agree with this opinion.
With his tools and the numbers Carr put up at Fresno St., I think we'd be giving Carr a pass on his flaws and not be worried that his brother's failures in the NFL might be genetic.

I'm so tired of people saying that Derek is being overlooked because of his last name.

Watch the tape and you'll see him getting rattled against pressure. You'll see that he struggles with ball placement down the field. You'll see how poorly the system he played in will prepare him for the NFL. You could just watch the USC game and you'd see all of these flaws in his game. Basically any time the defense keyed in on the WR screens and blitzed him he struggled.

I can understand somebody saying he should be a top 3 guy if you really don't like Manziel but there are real red flags with Carr that go beyond his last name.

He certainly has tools though. He's more athletic than people realize and does have a nice arm. However IMO he fails in every QB aspect outside of physical tools. I think he's a solid 2nd round pick and might sneak into the end of the first but he's not worth a top 10-15 selection in my book. I actually like Mettenberger more than him.

Iamcanadian
03-19-2014, 11:28 AM
David struggled in the pros because he couldn't read a defense and make proper adjustments. He was able to be lazy with reads and throws at Fresno State and in the NFL these faults were badly exposed. Playing behind a dreadful OL only compounded these inadequacies and mentally ruined him from there on out. Asking a rookie to start for an expansion team is generally career suicide.

I fully agree although mentally tough QB's aren't usually fazed by failure early in their careers, so I think career suicide is a bit much. The success may not come too quickly but if a QB has the intangibles, he'll survive and go on to have a solid career.

Iamcanadian
03-19-2014, 11:31 AM
I'm so tired of people saying that Derek is being overlooked because of his last name.

Watch the tape and you'll see him getting rattled against pressure. You'll see that he struggles with ball placement down the field. You'll see how poorly the system he played in will prepare him for the NFL. You could just watch the USC game and you'd see all of these flaws in his game. Basically any time the defense keyed in on the WR screens and blitzed him he struggled.

I can understand somebody saying he should be a top 3 guy if you really don't like Manziel but there are real red flags with Carr that go beyond his last name.

He certainly has tools though. He's more athletic than people realize and does have a nice arm. However IMO he fails in every QB aspect outside of physical tools. I think he's a solid 2nd round pick and might sneak into the end of the first but he's not worth a top 10-15 selection in my book. I actually like Mettenberger more than him.

I basically agree with almost all of this, but his last name doesn't help him one bit, you'd be amazed at how much credence is put into bloodlines by NFL GM's.

fredder
03-19-2014, 11:33 AM
I fully agree although mentally tough QB's aren't usually fazed by failure early in their careers, so I think career suicide is a bit much. The success may not come too quickly but if a QB has the intangibles, he'll survive and go on to have a solid career.

This is a good point and I'm not sure there's a better example of this than Eli Manning. No matter how you feel about the guy, you have to give him credit for being able to endure the hatred he faced early in his career in one of the biggest sports markets in the world. He even managed to turn it around and win 2 Superbowls. A lesser man would've crumbled under the pressure.

As a Lions fan it reminds me of Joey Harrington. He faced so much hatred early in his career and at some point you could just tell that he was never going to get better. He looked scared going out on the field.

Iamcanadian
03-19-2014, 11:44 AM
This is a good point and I'm not sure there's a better example of this than Eli Manning. No matter how you feel about the guy, you have to give him credit for being able to endure the hatred he faced early in his career in one of the biggest sports markets in the world. He even managed to turn it around and win 2 Superbowls. A lesser man would've crumbled under the pressure.

As a Lions fan it reminds me of Joey Harrington. He faced so much hatred early in his career and at some point you could just tell that he was never going to get better. He looked scared going out on the field.

Yeah, but looked who picked him. I believe Ford insisted they draft him and Matt Millen didn't have a clue how to assess talent, so he could hardly resist.:facepalm:

twiz
03-19-2014, 03:22 PM
I'm so tired of people saying that Derek is being overlooked because of his last name.

Watch the tape and you'll see him getting rattled against pressure. You'll see that he struggles with ball placement down the field. You'll see how poorly the system he played in will prepare him for the NFL. You could just watch the USC game and you'd see all of these flaws in his game. Basically any time the defense keyed in on the WR screens and blitzed him he struggled.

I can understand somebody saying he should be a top 3 guy if you really don't like Manziel but there are real red flags with Carr that go beyond his last name.

He certainly has tools though. He's more athletic than people realize and does have a nice arm. However IMO he fails in every QB aspect outside of physical tools. I think he's a solid 2nd round pick and might sneak into the end of the first but he's not worth a top 10-15 selection in my book. I actually like Mettenberger more than him.

Mettenberger concerns me for off-field reasons...

With Carr, I think a year of development would be perfect for him. Let him learn from pros about pocket presence, footwork, and place some nice talent around him. At Fresno, besides Adams the talent level wasn't great, and as you said yourself nor was the system. I'd still take him high if I'm a team that thinks he can be a franchise QB, which it seems like there are teams that do. In the draft, you just have to go get the guys you like.

fredder
03-19-2014, 03:40 PM
If a team really likes him and thinks he has a good chance of being a franchise QB then they absolutely should take him early and I would never question their decision, just their player evaluation. I just see him as a physically talented guy who's a pretty long way from being a starting NFL QB which is why I see him as a 2nd rounder. I don't think it's impossible for him to be a very good NFL QB but he's going to need to vastly improve his mechanics, pocket awareness, and downfield accuracy.

I kind of ignored Mettenberger's off-field stuff as I didn't really know the story. Looking at it now it was obviously very serious but from what I can tell he's been clean since then so it might've just been a big mistake made by a young kid that he matured from. I try not to put too much emphasis on character/personality concerns since it's largely pushed by the media and we never get to see the interviews that NFL teams have with these prospects.

gpngc
03-21-2014, 01:08 AM
Showing clips of his pro day... wow.

Mechanics are flawless, ball looks fantastic coming out of his hands.

His fatal flaw is dealing with pressure but damn he's an impressive pure passer.

fredder
03-21-2014, 01:14 AM
I definitely mentioned that Carr was going to blow up the offseason. The guy looks great throwing in shorts against air. He's athletic and has a very live arm. This doesn't change my opinion of him though. He's a guy with a very nice physical skill set but I still think he needs quite a bit of polish and his inability to handle pressure scares the hell out of me. I think you need to take him in the 2nd, maybe late 1st, with the intention of working with him and slowly developing him into a starter as opposed to throwing him to the wolves as a rookie.

holt_bruce81
03-21-2014, 01:30 AM
I definitely mentioned that Carr was going to blow up the offseason. The guy looks great throwing in shorts against air. He's athletic and has a very live arm. This doesn't change my opinion of him though. He's a guy with a very nice physical skill set but I still think he needs quite a bit of polish and his inability to handle pressure scares the hell out of me. I think you need to take him in the 2nd, maybe late 1st, with the intention of working with him and slowly developing him into a starter as opposed to throwing him to the wolves as a rookie.

I'm in complete agreement.

BigBanger
03-21-2014, 02:39 AM
He has no business going in the first three rounds. He's almost terrible.

FUNBUNCHER
03-21-2014, 02:54 AM
Derek should have a more successful career than his big bro, but that's not really saying much.lol

I think we see him going top 15.

In fact I see a scenario where both Bortles and Carr are the first two QBs drafted.

At which point I'll proceed to laugh my ass off.

RWills
03-21-2014, 06:38 AM
I have a feeling Shanny wants this guy and will laugh when he goes to Cleveland either at 4 or a trade down

RWills
03-21-2014, 06:41 AM
Derek should have a more successful career than his big bro, but that's not really saying much.lol

I think we see him going top 15.

In fact I see a scenario where both Bortles and Carr are the first two QBs drafted.

At which point I'll proceed to laugh my ass off.


Don't laugh to hard I think there is a good chance you see this

gpngc
03-21-2014, 11:09 PM
I liked Carr when I studied him the other day. But I'm watching Davante Adams and Carr's looked consistently awful. WTF?

Adams isn't anything special either btw.

Iamcanadian
03-22-2014, 12:36 AM
Carr problem is and always was, can he stand in against pressure and remain calm and find his open receiver. Does he have any sort of pocket presence. The trouble with a pro day, is that it cannot answer those questions, everybody has always known he has the arm and can make every throw required. But is he mentally tough? can he handle a situation where everything around him is crumbling?? My conclusion is that he cannot and so, I doubt he makes it into round 1. Somebody will take a shot in round 2, but IMO, that is about it.

SolidGold
03-23-2014, 08:54 PM
Derek should have a more successful career than his big bro, but that's not really saying much.lol

I think we see him going top 15.

In fact I see a scenario where both Bortles and Carr are the first two QBs drafted.

At which point I'll proceed to laugh my ass off.

The older Carr was a promising prospect and played pretty well on the expansion Texans. He eventually just got shell shocked by getting destroyed behind terrible o-lines which destroyed his confidence.

Derek actually reminds me of Aaron Rodgers as a prospect. Both are about the same size, good athletes, mostly worked in the short/intermediate range passing the ball in their respective offenses and were accurate passers. I am not going to BS and say I remember all of the criticism around Aaron Rodgers but I can remember many people pointing to his 23 completions in a row game vs. USC in 2003/2004 with many "experts" stating that most of his throws were short completions and he was a dink and dunk QB.

badgerbacker
03-23-2014, 09:53 PM
The older Carr was a promising prospect and played pretty well on the expansion Texans. He eventually just got shell shocked by getting destroyed behind terrible o-lines which destroyed his confidence.

Derek actually reminds me of Aaron Rodgers as a prospect. Both are about the same size, good athletes, mostly worked in the short/intermediate range passing the ball in their respective offenses and were accurate passers. I am not going to BS and say I remember all of the criticism around Aaron Rodgers but I can remember many people pointing to his 23 completions in a row game vs. USC in 2003/2004 with many "experts" stating that most of his throws were short completions and he was a dink and dunk QB.

One of the big criticisms for Rodgers was that he was a "Tedford QB"

It's not a terrible comparison, but I don't think Carr has quite as much mobility as Rodgers had.

Iamcanadian
03-24-2014, 06:42 AM
The older Carr was a promising prospect and played pretty well on the expansion Texans. He eventually just got shell shocked by getting destroyed behind terrible o-lines which destroyed his confidence.

Sorry, but I am one who doesn't believe in this explanation. The one aspect of all great QB's, is that they can all put the last play completely out of their mind and treat each play as a whole new ballgame. They are just strong, mentally tough guys, who aren't bothered in the least by what happened on the last play, they just get up and get stronger as things go against them.
If Carr was destroyed through being shell shocked, for me it simply means he wasn't mentally tough and wouldn't have succeeded anywhere.

Derek actually reminds me of Aaron Rodgers as a prospect. Both are about the same size, good athletes, mostly worked in the short/intermediate range passing the ball in their respective offenses and were accurate passers. I am not going to BS and say I remember all of the criticism around Aaron Rodgers but I can remember many people pointing to his 23 completions in a row game vs. USC in 2003/2004 with many "experts" stating that most of his throws were short completions and he was a dink and dunk QB.

The difference is that Rodgers had to remake himself as a pro because Tedford had screwed his mechanics completely, lucky for him, he got to sit 2 years and learn a new way of throwing the football. Few QB's would have that capacity.
Rodgers is clearly a mentally tough guy, who fits my description above. The question marks on the current Carr are very similar to the problems his brother had as a pro. Can he stand in the pocket and remain mentally strong as the play around him breaks down or is there a panic about him that freezes up all that ability. That is the question he will have to answer at the next level and the reason I think he could easily slip to round 2.

Dangermouse
03-24-2014, 04:14 PM
I think Carr is gonna be the second QB off the board. The Browns would love him at 26 but I think he's going to get overdrafted. In fact I don't think the Browns can even trade down from 4 given how much the Raiders seem to love him.


Carr will be a top 5 pick if Bortles goes first overall.

Iamcanadian
03-24-2014, 04:33 PM
I think Carr is gonna be the second QB off the board. The Browns would love him at 26 but I think he's going to get overdrafted. In fact I don't think the Browns can even trade down from 4 given how much the Raiders seem to love him.


Carr will be a top 5 pick if Bortles goes first overall.

I disagree, Carr has a lot of the same problems Geno Smith had last year, namely pocket presence, it sent Geno into a spin and I won't be shocked if Carr goes round 2.

I don't think the Browns have any interest in Carr, it is just a smokescreen IMO, to drive down the competition for the Rams' #2 pick. If teams believe that the Browns are interested in Carr, why bother trading up past them.

I don't think it will work, but that is my opinion of why they are spreading the rumor that they want Carr.

FUNBUNCHER
03-24-2014, 05:55 PM
I think Carr is gonna be the second QB off the board. The Browns would love him at 26 but I think he's going to get overdrafted. In fact I don't think the Browns can even trade down from 4 given how much the Raiders seem to love him.


Carr will be a top 5 pick if Bortles goes first overall.


Ignore my previous question in another thread about your top 2 QBs.

I'm assuming they're Bortles and Carr.

Nameless Ghoul
03-24-2014, 08:15 PM
The Raiders interest in Carr is very real, it dates back to early fall when reports came out Raiders GM was attending Fresno State games. Word was Reggie was keeping an eye on him all season and then Reggie McKenzie not to long ago said.... If he was to draft a QB, he would prefer him to sit out his rookie season while they build the team up. I'm guessing this is why they acquired Matt Schaub. I'm sure they would love to trade down and draft Carr but with the Viking sitting at 8, they probably can't.

Iamcanadian
03-24-2014, 10:29 PM
The Raiders interest in Carr is very real, it dates back to early fall when reports came out Raiders GM was attending Fresno State games. Word was Reggie was keeping an eye on him all season and then Reggie McKenzie not to long ago said.... If he was to draft a QB, he would prefer him to sit out his rookie season while they build the team up. I'm guessing this is why they acquired Matt Schaub. I'm sure they would love to trade down and draft Carr but with the Viking sitting at 8, they probably can't.

It sounds more like he is thinking of drafting a QB in round 2, those are the types that get to sit a year without too much complaint from fans on a losing team. I think they have a reasonable chance to get him in the second.

Caulibflower
03-24-2014, 10:34 PM
Drafting Carr 5th overall would be so Reggie McKenzie, and probably the last big blunder he makes as an NFL GM.