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View Full Version : Alex Smith is the next Aaron Rogers


thegreatone
10-10-2011, 12:03 AM
You heard it here first.

I was never a fan of Alex Smith. Even when he was drafted #1 overall. But Harbs has really turned his career around. He is becoming better at passing the football and creating a tight spiral. Hes also great at reading and physically and mentally reading defenses. He can make every throw and is very athletic. He finally has the supporting cast and defense to help him become a top 5 QB in the league.

Agree?

vidae
10-10-2011, 12:04 AM
I'll have to see him have more than 3-4 good games before I say he's the next Aaron Rodgers.

yo123
10-10-2011, 12:04 AM
Oh dear God go away.

SickwithIt1010
10-10-2011, 12:05 AM
http://lolwut.com/layout/lolwut.jpg

yodabear
10-10-2011, 12:05 AM
http://blastmagazine.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/02/facepalm.jpg

????????

Ness
10-10-2011, 12:06 AM
Okay it's officially troll hunting season.

eltwentyone
10-10-2011, 12:06 AM
dat shitt cray

Iamcanadian
10-10-2011, 12:07 AM
He is an average NFL starting QB which is more than he was before this season but he will never be a top 5 QB.
He certainly cannot be labeled a flop anymore and is a serviceable QB.

Borat
10-10-2011, 12:08 AM
http://hiphophoney.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/06/gunshot1.jpg

Boooooom! I shot a troll! Who wants to help me bury it?

Ness
10-10-2011, 12:08 AM
He certainly cannot be labeled a flop anymore and is a serviceable QB.

Serviceable. But right now that's it. Really, he hasn't done much yet to separate himself from the likes of Brad Johnson or Jon Kitna, who have both had a few decent seasons on their resume. I'd be happy if he developed into a Steve McNair or Mark Brunell type. Not great quarterbacks, but very, very good in their prime.

yodabear
10-10-2011, 12:09 AM
He is good enough to win the NFC West.

descendency
10-10-2011, 12:10 AM
He had better be Peyton Manning, because he's costing them Andrew Luck.

Auron
10-10-2011, 12:11 AM
Hes also great at reading and physically and mentally reading defenses.
This sentence confused me. How do you physically, and mentally read a Defense.

Brent
10-10-2011, 12:12 AM
This sentence confused me. How do you physically, and mentally read a Defense.
if you have to ask, you'll never know.

thegreatone
10-10-2011, 12:13 AM
This sentence confused me. How do you physically, and mentally read a Defense.
Alex Smith is a very intelligent thrower of the football.

vidae
10-10-2011, 12:13 AM
Dungeous-ous crabs. Get it?

soybean
10-10-2011, 12:15 AM
He is an average NFL starting QB which is more than he was before this season but he will never be a top 5 QB.
He certainly cannot be labeled a flop anymore and is a serviceable QB.

Serviceable. But right now that's it. Really, he hasn't done much yet to separate himself from the likes of Brad Johnson or Jon Kitna, who have both had a few decent seasons on their resume. I'd be happy if he developed into a Steve McNair or Mark Brunell type. Not great quarterbacks, but very, very good in their prime.

He is good enough to win the NFC West.

can you guys stop adding meaningful content to these threads? -_-

bored of education
10-10-2011, 12:18 AM
When I Think of Alex Smith I think

http://i187.photobucket.com/albums/x254/reginatrolman/cat_tat.jpg

yodabear
10-10-2011, 12:20 AM
When I Think of Alex Smith I think

http://i187.photobucket.com/albums/x254/reginatrolman/cat_tat.jpg

I think of....

http://www.5minutesforspecialneeds.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/lombardi_trophy3.jpg

and

http://sfist.com/attachments/SFist_AndrewD/joe_montana.jpeg

Raiderz4Life
10-10-2011, 12:23 AM
Jason Campbell the next Doug Williams...put that in your pipe and smoke it

BloodBrother
10-10-2011, 12:33 AM
You heard it here first.

I was never a fan of Alex Smith. Even when he was drafted #1 overall. But Harbs has really turned his career around. He is becoming better at passing the football and creating a tight spiral. Hes also great at reading and physically and mentally reading defenses. He can make every throw and is very athletic. He finally has the supporting cast and defense to help him become a top 5 QB in the league.

Agree?

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v93/Poisoning/gB2He.gif

and

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v93/Poisoning/06402767-wtf.gif

vidae
10-10-2011, 12:35 AM
You heard it here first.

I was never a fan of Alex Smith. Even when he was drafted #1 overall. But Harbs has really turned his career around. He is becoming better at passing the football and creating a tight spiral. Hes also great at reading and physically and mentally reading defenses. He can make every throw and is very athletic. He finally has the supporting cast and defense to help him become a top 5 QB in the league.

Agree?

Yes, I'll bring this back.

http://0.tqn.com/d/movies/1/0/X/C/Q/nocountryforoldmenpic8.jpg

ChiFan24
10-10-2011, 12:43 AM
You could have said the next Jim Harbaugh. That would have actually made sense.

yodabear
10-10-2011, 12:43 AM
HOF thread? Me thinket so!

Basileus777
10-10-2011, 12:43 AM
He had better be Peyton Manning, because he's costing them Andrew Luck.

He's not costing them anything. Even without Smith, the 9ers wouldn't be bad enough to get the #1 pick.

Brent
10-10-2011, 12:45 AM
Yes, I'll bring this back.
http://cdn.styleforum.net/1/15/1500bd64_clay-davis-sheeeiiiiittt.gif

nepg
10-10-2011, 01:02 AM
http://hiphophoney.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/06/gunshot1.jpg

Boooooom! I shot a troll! Who wants to help me bury it?
This is how it's done, sir...
http://www.cinemaliberated.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/02/The-Troll-Hunter-CL-007.jpg

tjsunstein
10-10-2011, 01:30 AM
Rogers? You've got to me kidding me.

Rabscuttle
10-10-2011, 01:43 AM
He's probably a better lead blocker.

A Perfect Score
10-10-2011, 08:05 AM
I just want to come out and say threads like this make me remember why I love NFLDC.

SolidGold
10-10-2011, 08:09 AM
I just want to come out and say threads like this make me remember why I love NFLDC.

ha yea gotta love that every kneejerk reaction gets a thread.

Alex Smith will never be Rodgers or live up to being drafted number 1 but it looks like he is doing a pretty good salvage job on his career. I admire him for sticking it out in a bad situation and being a class act the whole time.

A Perfect Score
10-10-2011, 08:11 AM
http://images.quickblogcast.com/114660-107014/smith_alex.jpg

You know someone needs to photoshop that into a Superman cape. DO IT NOW!

Brent
10-10-2011, 08:14 AM
Rogers? You've got to me kidding me.
You're right, that's an unfair comparison. We all know that Alex Smith is the next Steve Young.

A Perfect Score
10-10-2011, 08:15 AM
Aaron Rodgers sits up at night and cries because he knows he isn't as good as Alex Smith. Then he uses those tears as lubricant while masturbating to pictures of Alex Smith. Alex Smith. ALEX SMITH.

Splat
10-10-2011, 08:34 AM
tms-pac5yqE

Jvig43
10-10-2011, 09:21 AM
Even raging GB packer fans know Smith is better simply by the eye test.

FUNBUNCHER
10-10-2011, 09:29 AM
I root for the guy but don't diss future HOFer Aaron Rodgers with this nonsense comparison.

Alex Smith will never be a pressure QB, he's just not one of the bottom 5 QBs in the league anymore.

Check that, yeah he still is bottom five IMO. But Alex is having a nice season so far.

abaddon41_80
10-10-2011, 09:40 AM
I root for the guy but don't diss future HOFer Aaron Rodgers with this nonsense comparison.

Alex Smith will never be a pressure QB, he's just not one of the bottom 5 QBs in the league anymore.

Check that, yeah he still is bottom five IMO. But Alex is having a nice season so far.

First post in a while, I completely forgot about these boards, but Smith has never been a bottom five QB outside of his rookie year.

In regards to recently, Smith is no Rodgers but he has been very good. Since that fumble against the Eagles and the "We want Carr" chants last year he has 17 touchdowns and only three interceptions in 296 pass attempts. That works out to a TD % of 5.7, just under Rodgers 5.9% of last season and equal to his career %, and an interception % of 1.0, almost as low as Brady's last year. In his last 10 starts, all since said Eagles game, he has a 7-3 record and one of those losses only happened because he got injured and David Carr gave the game to the Panthers

Ness
10-10-2011, 01:11 PM
I root for the guy but don't diss future HOFer Aaron Rodgers with this nonsense comparison.

Alex Smith will never be a pressure QB, he's just not one of the bottom 5 QBs in the league anymore.

Check that, yeah he still is bottom five IMO. But Alex is having a nice season so far.

Smith isn't a bottom five quarterback. Give me a break.

nepg
10-10-2011, 01:42 PM
I've always been a Smith fan. Had him going #1 overall before anyone but Utah fans that draft season and he should have won the Heisman. I think he's got everything needed to be an amazing QB in the NFL, and now he has a coach that isn't a complete piece of **** and believes in him.

PackerLegend
10-10-2011, 03:30 PM
Good thing you said Rogers and not Rodgers because otherwise I would say ***** YoU CrAZZZZZZZYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY.

FUNBUNCHER
10-10-2011, 03:41 PM
Well, who are the five worst QBs currently starting in the NFL??
As a Skins fan I will volunteer Rex Grossman for that group. Keep in mind these aren't all total scrub players. My definition of 'bottom five' NFL QB means a starter that at least 27 other NFL franchises wouldn't trade their own starter for.

Tarvaris Jackson. Chad Henne. Curtis Painter. Grossman. Alex Smith.

Oh and D Mac.

I can count, that's 6.

I left off any rookie starters because they aren't known quantities yet,(Gabbert), or Tebow for the same reason.

Most Skins fans IMO wouldn't touch any QB on this list, except maybe Painter after the Colts' close loss to KC, and that would be based strictly on potential upside.

If Alex Smith isn't bottom five, he's still in the discussion simply because I don't think he's valued as a QB that much beyond the 49ers organization.

niel89
10-10-2011, 03:43 PM
If Alex Smith is the next Aaron Rodgers, and Aaron Rodgers is the QB of the Packers. Then does that mean that Alex Smith is the next Packers QB?

ViperVisor
10-10-2011, 03:57 PM
Chad Pennington.

He didn't start until he was 26. Smith is still just 27.

Ness
10-10-2011, 04:03 PM
Well, who are the five worst QBs currently starting in the NFL??
As a Skins fan I will volunteer Rex Grossman for that group. Keep in mind these aren't all total scrub players. My definition of 'bottom five' NFL QB means a starter that at least 27 other NFL franchises wouldn't trade their own starter for.

Tarvaris Jackson. Chad Henne. Curtis Painter. Grossman. Alex Smith.

Oh and D Mac.

I can count, that's 6.

I left off any rookie starters because they aren't known quantities yet,(Gabbert), or Tebow for the same reason.

Most Skins fans IMO wouldn't touch any QB on this list, except maybe Painter after the Colts' close loss to KC, and that would be based strictly on potential upside.

If Alex Smith isn't bottom five, he's still in the discussion simply because I don't think he's valued as a QB that much beyond the 49ers organization.

Ummm Kyle Orton? And rookie quarterbacks shouldn't be left off the list. A starter is a starter is a starter. We're talking about the present. Not down the road. Oh and what about Kevin Kolb? Sam Bradford? Jason Campbell? Colt McCoy? I think you're really reaching here. If Smith was released today I'm sure there would be a lot of teams willing to sign him.

abaddon41_80
10-10-2011, 04:16 PM
Well, who are the five worst QBs currently starting in the NFL??
As a Skins fan I will volunteer Rex Grossman for that group. Keep in mind these aren't all total scrub players. My definition of 'bottom five' NFL QB means a starter that at least 27 other NFL franchises wouldn't trade their own starter for.

Tarvaris Jackson. Chad Henne. Curtis Painter. Grossman. Alex Smith.

Oh and D Mac.

I can count, that's 6.

I left off any rookie starters because they aren't known quantities yet,(Gabbert), or Tebow for the same reason.

Most Skins fans IMO wouldn't touch any QB on this list, except maybe Painter after the Colts' close loss to KC, and that would be based strictly on potential upside.

If Alex Smith isn't bottom five, he's still in the discussion simply because I don't think he's valued as a QB that much beyond the 49ers organization.

At this point in time Smith is undoubtedly better than

Henne
Sanchez
Gabbert
Painter
Campbell
Orton/Tebow
Dalton
McCoy
Jackson/Whitehurst
Kolb
Bradford
Grossman/Beck

You can't just exclude QBs from the bottom of the league because they have "potential." I also don't understand how you could leave Kolb off of the list of QBs worse than Smith.

BloodBrother
10-10-2011, 04:18 PM
If Alex Smith is the next Aaron Rodgers, and Aaron Rodgers is the QB of the Packers. Then does that mean that Alex Smith is the next Packers QB?

yes

http://i.imgur.com/Kbdu3.jpg

CC.SD
10-10-2011, 04:24 PM
If Alex Smith is the next Aaron Rodgers, and Aaron Rodgers is the QB of the Packers. Then does that mean that Alex Smith is the next Packers QB?

Yes but he has to sit behind Favre for 3 years first.

FUNBUNCHER
10-10-2011, 04:27 PM
Kyle Orton has proven to be a better QB over his career than Alex Smith's recent renaissance.

No one is signing Alex Smith with the assumption he's going to be their starter the moment he walks into their team's practice facility.

Again, my criteria is how many teams are willing to trade their starter for the bottom five or six guys I listed??

You think the Cards would rather have Alex Smith over Kolb?? Why would the Rams want Smith over Bradford?? JCampbell is a journeyman QB, but except for a few instances Alex Smith has been worse than that and JC in D.C. had to endure the OC merry-go-round his entire Redskins career and still far outperformed anything ALex Smith did in SF.

Colt McCoy is no one's supastar yet, but even still I don't think Browns fans would be ecstatic to trade McCoy for Alex Smith straight up.

Smith has a dossier in the NFL, and despite battling injuries and coaching instability in SF, at times there appears to be something missing with Alex Smith when you look at him as a starting QB.

The dude in the past appeared to shrink in games like the moment was too big for him. I've always questioned his competitive mental toughness, but not his mental toughness in general.
You have to be mentally strong to still have your head on straight after dealing with all the adversity Alex Smith has had to endure in his NFL tenure.

But unfortunately, many of the problems Smith has had as a pro IMO originate with him.

I know it sounds like I'm bashing the guy but he's one of those players I root for and hope he's just a late bloomer.

WHen I call Smith a 'bottom 5 NFL QB', I'm basing that solely on his league wide reputation, not the rest of his career.

FUNBUNCHER
10-10-2011, 04:32 PM
At this point in time Smith is undoubtedly better than

Henne
Sanchez
Gabbert
Painter
Campbell
Orton/Tebow
Dalton
McCoy
Jackson/Whitehurst
Kolb
Bradford
Grossman/Beck

You can't just exclude QBs from the bottom of the league because they have "potential." I also don't understand how you could leave Kolb off of the list of QBs worse than Smith.


Of the players I bolded, I really doubt any one of those franchises or their fans would consider trading Alex Smith for their current starter.

Maybe this changes at the end of the season, but right now there's no way.
ALex Smith looks like an average NFL QB right now. Great. But those kind of guys aren't that hard to find in the NFL.

ALex SMith is playing his role adequately, but let's not act like he's carrying that offense.

Comparing him to Aaron Rodgers is nutty.

Ness
10-10-2011, 04:37 PM
Kyle Orton has proven to be a better QB over his career than Alex Smith's recent renaissance.

No one is signing Alex Smith with the assumption he's going to be their starter the moment he walks into their team's practice facility.

Again, my criteria is how many teams are willing to trade their starter for the bottom five or six guys I listed??

You think the Cards would rather have Alex Smith over Kolb?? Why would the Rams want Smith over Bradford?? JCampbell is a journeyman QB, but except for a few instances Alex Smith has been worse than that and JC in D.C. had to endure the OC merry-go-round his entire Redskins career and still far outperformed anything ALex Smith did in SF.

Colt McCoy is no one's supastar yet, but even still I don't think Browns fans would be ecstatic to trade McCoy for Alex Smith straight up.

Smith has a dossier in the NFL, and despite battling injuries and coaching instability in SF, at times there appears to be something missing with Alex Smith when you look at him as a starting QB.

The dude in the past appeared to shrink in games like the moment was too big for him. I've always questioned his competitive mental toughness, but not his mental toughness in general.
You have to be mentally strong to still have your head on straight after dealing with all the adversity Alex Smith has had to endure in his NFL tenure.

But unfortunately, many of the problems Smith has had as a pro IMO originate with him.

I know it sounds like I'm bashing the guy but he's one of those players I root for and hope he's just a late bloomer.

WHen I call Smith a 'bottom 5 NFL QB', I'm basing that solely on his league wide reputation, not the rest of his career.

I think you're basing your criteria on what fits your agenda in a desperate attempt to prove a point. Really, it shouldn't be this complex. It should be as simple as who is playing better right now. What the heck does Orton's past have to do with how he's playing now? He's playing terrible. And it's not like he was a superstar to begin with, so he shouldn't get any benefit of the doubt. And a lot of teams wouldn't trade their current starters away for player X unless they are a huge upgrade that has proven in the past to be consistently successful. The Cardinals just signed Kolb, they wouldn't trade him away. That being said, that fact alone doesn't save him from the reality of not playing well. Same with Bradford and McCoy who haven't been in the league that long. Of course they are going to get more time. Doesn't mean they are playing that well though.

And Jason Campbell didn't outperform Alex Smith by a huge margin, if at all. He never did anything significant in Washington (and that was with a better team around him). And he's playing terrible as of now.

It's just kind of funny to say he's a bottom five quarterback when he's playing better than a lot of the starters in the NFL.

abaddon41_80
10-10-2011, 04:39 PM
Kyle Orton has proven to be a better QB over his career than Alex Smith's recent renaissance.

Career =/= currently. Right now you can't argue that Orton is better than Smith

No one is signing Alex Smith with the assumption he's going to be their starter the moment he walks into their team's practice facility.

That is because he is ridiculous underrated. Even with Mike Singletary and Jimmy Raye as his coaches he has been decent the past couple of years.

Again, my criteria is how many teams are willing to trade their starter for the bottom five or six guys I listed??

Then you aren't arguing who is a better QB, you are arguing possible upside.

You think the Cards would rather have Alex Smith over Kolb?? Why would the Rams want Smith over Bradford?? JCampbell is a journeyman QB, but except for a few instances Alex Smith has been worse than that and JC in D.C. had to endure the OC merry-go-round his entire Redskins career and still far outperformed anything ALex Smith did in SF.

I do think the Cardinals would rather have Smith than Kolb and, in regards to Bradford, see above comment. Smith has had every bit the OC merry-go-round that Campbell has had, I actually believe he has had more, and he hasn't been worse since 2008.

Colt McCoy is no one's supastar yet, but even still I don't think Browns fans would be ecstatic to trade McCoy for Alex Smith straight up.

Upside argument, not who is currently the better QB

Smith has a dossier in the NFL, and despite battling injuries and coaching instability in SF, at times there appears to be something missing with Alex Smith when you look at him as a starting QB.

The dude in the past appeared to shrink in games like the moment was too big for him. I've always questioned his competitive mental toughness,

There is obviously something missing, no one is arguing he is actually a top five QB, but to say he is bottom five is ridiculous unless you are living in 2005. Outside of his rookie year, and maybe 2007 when he played with a separated shoulder, he hasn't been a bottom five QB based on play. It isn't even arguable.

niel89
10-10-2011, 04:46 PM
If you say he is an average QB then he isn't in the bottom 5.

Trade value =/= current play. Ryan Fitzpatrick is playing better than Sanchez but the Jets would never do that trade.

Borat
10-10-2011, 06:24 PM
yes

http://i.imgur.com/Kbdu3.jpg

Ahh ****, it's boner time.

Ness
10-10-2011, 06:41 PM
Rodgers would have looked good in that cherry red. Just saying.

abaddon41_80
10-10-2011, 06:53 PM
Still think that is highly arguable. Rodgers would still have been a good QB if he went #1, but not on the level he is now. Smith would have been a lot better in Green Bay, though not on Rodgers' current level. If their positions had been reversed I think they would be pretty similar at this point.

Ness
10-10-2011, 06:54 PM
Oh I just meant he would look good in the uniform. Wasn't talking about performance.

CC.SD
10-10-2011, 07:02 PM
Still think that is highly arguable. Rodgers would still have been a good QB if he went #1, but not on the level he is now. Smith would have been a lot better in Green Bay, though not on Rodgers' current level. If their positions had been reversed I think they would be pretty similar at this point.

http://static.starcitygames.com/sales/cardscans/MAGODY/fervent_denial.jpg

edit: ps a counterspell you can play from the graveyard, w.t.f? this game really went off the rails

Raiderz4Life
10-10-2011, 07:20 PM
Yea...I wouldn't take Smith on the Raiders. Him over Campbell would be a lateral move AT BEST. Campbell won't win us games but he doesn't seem to cost us games either...with exception of the NE game.

Brent
10-10-2011, 07:27 PM
yes

http://i.imgur.com/Kbdu3.jpg
http://reason.com/assets/mc/psuderman/2011_04/scannershead.gif

The Packers would finally win some games, despite all those injuries.

Jvig43
10-10-2011, 07:30 PM
http://reason.com/assets/mc/psuderman/2011_04/scannershead.gif

The Packers would finally win some games, despite all those injuries.

http://assets.sbnation.com/assets/538725/aaronrodgers.jpg

"Yeah well we won the superbowl"

Brent
10-10-2011, 07:42 PM
"Yeah well we won the superbowl"
with Aaron Rodgers, right? he was their QB?

Jvig43
10-10-2011, 07:57 PM
with Aaron Rodgers, right? he was their QB?

Man I'm thankful Tom Brady is my QB. Not as thankful as 49er fans are for Smith, but pretty thankful. Also, I'm a pats fan.

Borat
10-10-2011, 08:37 PM
Man I'm thankful Tom Brady is my QB. Not as thankful as 49er fans are for Smith, but pretty thankful. Also, I'm a pats fan.

Don't sweat it. Brady is still really good. I mean, he's no Alex Smith, but let's be real here, nobody in the league is.

phlysac
10-10-2011, 09:23 PM
ONLY evaluating this season... and ONLY doing it statistically...

Smith ranks...


6. Completion percentage (65.9)

13. Yards per Attempt (7.7)

T14. Touchdowns (7)

T30. Interceptions (1)

T6. Sacks (14)

3. QB Rating (104.1)

Jvig43
10-10-2011, 09:25 PM
ONLY evaluating this season... and ONLY doing it statistically...

Smith ranks...


1. Completion percentage (65.9)

1. Yards per Attempt (7.7)

1. Touchdowns (7)

1. Interceptions (1)

1. Sacks (14)

1. QB Rating (104.1)

Fixed for accuracy, you must have had those stats mixed up with someone like Rodgers or something, who plays for the green bay packers.

FUNBUNCHER
10-10-2011, 09:33 PM
Playing moderately well for 5 games in 2011 isn't enough for me to think Alex Smith is suddenly a good QB.

Rex Grossman has had some of the best stats the first four games this season than he's had his entire career.

Is he now a 'good' QB??

Would you trade your starter for Rexy straight up??

Hurricanes25
10-10-2011, 09:35 PM
^ But you called Cam Newton a superstar after 1 game.

Brent
10-10-2011, 09:47 PM
Fixed for accuracy, you must have had those stats mixed up with someone like Rodgers or something, who plays for the green bay packers.
you mean that Aaron Rodgers guy who plays quarterback for the Packers?

FUNBUNCHER
10-10-2011, 09:52 PM
^ But you called Cam Newton a superstar after 1 game.

Being facetious. Sarcasm. Hyping a rookie who many felt didn't belong in the NFL playing QB.

Cam hasn't been a disappointment for 5 seasons and one of the biggest busts taken 1/1 overall.

Humor it seems only works one way around here, when folks are making fun of other players/teams.

You know you can be optimistically sarcastic about how well someone is playing.

phlysac
10-10-2011, 09:57 PM
Playing moderately well for 5 games in 2011 isn't enough for me to think Alex Smith is suddenly a good QB.

Rex Grossman has had some of the best stats the first four games this season than he's had his entire career.

Is he now a 'good' QB??

Would you trade your starter for Rexy straight up??

Yeah... let's compare...

Smith 6. Completion percentage (65.9) | Grossman 24. (58.0) | 6/24

Smith 13. Yards per Attempt (7.7) | Grossman 20 (6.9) | 13/20

Smith T14. Touchdowns (7) | Grossman T19 (6) | T14/T19

Smith T30. Interceptions (1) | Grossman T10 (5) | T30/T10

Smith T6. Sacks (14) | Grossman 21 (8) | T6/21

Smith 3. QB Rating (104.1) | Grossman 23 (78.7) | 3/23


Can you explain why you keep using Rex Grossman as the comparison, again?

FUNBUNCHER
10-10-2011, 10:08 PM
I wasn't comparing Grossman in 2011 to Alex Smith in 2011.

Because Alex Smith is putting up some of the best early season numbers of his career, there's this belief he's turned the corner on his career, or become a good QB.

I used Rex Grossman as an example because he too has put up some of the best numbers of his career thus far in 2011, but it doesn't mean suddenly he's become a 'good' QB.

The only thing I can say definitively about Alex Smith is that at present he's playing well. But IMO he needs to do this for the rest of the season and again in 2012 before I can erase his first five years in the NFL.

phlysac
10-10-2011, 10:20 PM
You've basically said that you rate based on perception.

Perception is Alex Smith sucks.

Reality says, he's been top-half of the league AT WORST his last 10 starts.

Is he a top QB? No!!! He has to perform at this level for a consistent length of time.

But to continue to view him as a "bottom-5" QB based on perception, is faulty.

Jvig43
10-10-2011, 10:24 PM
" Guys guys, I was just joking when I made an entire thread and argued for weeks that Cam was amazing. I mean you didn't get it? "

Brent
10-10-2011, 10:54 PM
" Guys guys, I was just joking when I made an entire thread and argued for weeks that Cam was amazing. I mean you didn't get it? "
but he's a rookie, so he doesnt count, right guys? you get that, huh?

also, did you know that aaron rodgers is teh qb of the packers?

FUNBUNCHER
10-10-2011, 10:57 PM
" Guys guys, I was just joking when I made an entire thread and argued for weeks that Cam was amazing. I mean you didn't get it? "

This is what happens when you only read thread titles and not the actual posts.


Cam is great. A great rookie. A 'supastar' rookie QB. Truth. No one said he was an All-Pro or a future HOFer.

I stand by everything I wrote in that thread about Newton, just the title was a bit over-the-top.

Careful Jvig43, or you might end up confusing himself with your piercingly comic repartee.

Cam IMO deserves to be hyped for the way he started the season.

BigBanger
10-10-2011, 11:36 PM
No one said he was an All-Pro or a future HOFer.
Speak for yourself. In one of the 876 Cam Newton threads made in the last 2 years, this was said by me:

Cam Newton is a HALL. OF. FAMER.

With a gray wenis and white teeth. Can never go wrong there.
BOOM

Raiderz4Life
10-10-2011, 11:43 PM
This is what happens when you only read thread titles and not the actual posts.


Cam is great. A great rookie. A 'supastar' rookie QB. Truth. No one said he was an All-Pro or a future HOFer.

I stand by everything I wrote in that thread about Newton, just the title was a bit over-the-top.

Careful Jvig43, or you might end up confusing himself with your piercingly comic repartee.

Cam IMO deserves to be hyped for the way he started the season.

You only demoted him to "supastar" rookie QB after you started getting flamed for everything you were saying. You started to try and retract everything.

Mr. Goosemahn
10-11-2011, 12:03 AM
You only demoted him to "supastar" rookie QB after you started getting flamed for everything you were saying. You started to try and retract everything.

Saying outlandish things and then retracting them is hereby known as the "Funbuncher Effect."

Jvig43
10-11-2011, 12:22 AM
Maybe he should read his own thread instead of asking me to do it for him.

binary
10-11-2011, 01:56 AM
Alex Smith is a great study on the importance of coaching/scheme and playcalling. Who knows where he would be if he was provided this staff from the beginning. He'll never be nearly as good as Rodgers, not nearly as accurate, too inconsistent, doesn't have the instincts...the list goes on and on.

However, the first four weeks, he was playing behind possibly the worst oline in football, with maybe the worst running game in the league, and he was still putting up top 8 numbers.

If you would take Campbell, Orton, or McCoy ahead of him, you're a farce.

abaddon41_80
10-11-2011, 06:06 AM
I think the main problem here is that the perception that Alex Smith has just started playing okay/good. In reality he hasn't been that bad the last couple of years, considering what he was working with. With possibly the worst offensive coordinator/head coach combo in decades he was able to put up 32 touchdowns to 22 interceptions in about 700 pass attempts. That is a touchdown % of 4.5 and an interception % of 3.1. Certainly not elite but definitely not bad. In 2009 he had a higher TD % (4.8) than Tony Romo, Joe Flacco, Kyle Orton and Jason Campbell.

FUNBUNCHER
10-11-2011, 07:19 AM
You only demoted him to "supastar" rookie QB after you started getting flamed for everything you were saying. You started to try and retract everything.

Making crap up that other people have said doesn't make it true.
Everything I boosted Cam Newton about was done within the context of his having the most impressive first two games of any rookie QB in NFL history.

If you can show anywhere that I said Cam Newton is better than current X NFL QB, refresh my memory.

Oh but you can't. Because I didn't.

No demotion, no downgrade. The guy IMO is a 'supastar'. You can argue the definition doesn't apply for any rookie after a handful of games, but I didn't back track.

Lot of pile jumpers around here.lol

The crap some guys get their panties all in a bunch about on this board is mind-boggling.

'How dare you call a rookie QB a 'supastar' !!!'

Because we only deal in absolute facts and not opinions on SWDC.

FUNBUNCHER
10-11-2011, 07:55 AM
Alex Smith is a great study on the importance of coaching/scheme and playcalling. Who knows where he would be if he was provided this staff from the beginning. He'll never be nearly as good as Rodgers, not nearly as accurate, too inconsistent, doesn't have the instincts...the list goes on and on.

However, the first four weeks, he was playing behind possibly the worst oline in football, with maybe the worst running game in the league, and he was still putting up top 8 numbers.

If you would take Campbell, Orton, or McCoy ahead of him, you're a farce.



That's why I phrased the question in terms of would you trade your team's starting QB for Alex Smith??

IMO it's a more insightful way to gauge how a fan really feels about the abilities of an opposing player because it's about more than stats.
It's about the confidence you have in that player's ability to perform at a higher level than current X player and win games.

You can make an objective statistical argument that Alex Smith is 'better' than Campbell/Orton/McCoy, and I don't claim to speak for all the fans of those respective franchises, but I doubt many Raiders fans would trade Campbell for Alex Smith because IMO there's no real perceived upgrade.

Does a Browns fan look at Alex Smith and imagine if only we had Smith, Cleveland's offense would be more productive??

Orton may not have been the best example of a QB better than Smith, but I still don't see a world of difference between them on a gut level.

I know Skins fans who love to diss Eli Manning all day long,(not a top 10QB, throws too many picks etc.), but when you ask would you trade for Eli, they've all said YES.
Some go so far to say they'd trade every Skins QB for the last 25 years for Eli. Even Theismann.

That IMO is beyond stats. It's a gut feel you have about a guy that if you had him, that position for your team would be locked down.

I don't yet trust that Alex Smith can play at a similar level for the rest of the season in order for me to believe he's in the top half of NFL QBs.

Honestly he's had moments in his career where he's look the same, like he was on his way to becoming a good NFL QB.

abaddon41_80
10-11-2011, 07:59 AM
So you are saying he is perceived as a bottom five QB and therefore is one?

Menardo75
10-11-2011, 08:07 AM
I hear if Alex Smith punched you in the face you have to fight back the strong urge to thank him.

descendency
10-11-2011, 08:21 AM
I don't want to turn this into a Newton thread, but you are delusional if you don't think Newton isn't already a top 15 QB.

FUNBUNCHER
10-11-2011, 08:27 AM
So you are saying he is perceived as a bottom five QB and therefore is one?

I'm saying there's roughly 5 or 6 starting QBs whose fans would be willing to trade for Alex Smith.
It's not an absolute metric, but there it is.

Again, I like Alex Smith personally and it would be cool IMO to see him come close to performing up to his draft status.

But when a guy has performed below expectations for most of his career,(yes I know there's context for that and should not be stated in a vacuum), having a few good games in 2011 isn't enough for me to believe he's turned the corner professionally.

That's why I brought up Rex Grossman as a comparison.

Before the season most pundits said the Skins had the worst QB situation on the league and would regret giving up on McNabb.
But so far Rexy has played solid football. Still has too many turnovers, but he moves the offense, spreads the ball around and doesn't gamble all the time with his reads or overestimate his arm strength.
Because Grossman has outplayed expectations before the season however doesn't mean he's now a 'good' QB, or more than a backup on several teams.

(FWIW, I would trade Smith for Grossman despite both having a similar level of production so far this season.)

abaddon41_80
10-11-2011, 08:53 AM
I'm saying there's roughly 5 or 6 starting QBs whose fans would be willing to trade for Alex Smith.
It's not an absolute metric, but there it is.

It isn't a metric at all. Fans being willing to trade their QBs for him has nothing to do with how good/bad he is. If you look at his numbers since 2009, especially since the Eagles game last year, he is very, very far from a bottom five QB.

But when a guy has performed below expectations for most of his career,(yes I know there's context for that and should not be stated in a vacuum), having a few good games in 2011 isn't enough for me to believe he's turned the corner professionally.

Below expectations is not the same thing as bad.

That's why I brought up Rex Grossman as a comparison.

Before the season most pundits said the Skins had the worst QB situation on the league and would regret giving up on McNabb.
But so far Rexy has played solid football. Still has too many turnovers, but he moves the offense, spreads the ball around and doesn't gamble all the time with his reads or overestimate his arm strength.
Because Grossman has outplayed expectations before the season however doesn't mean he's now a 'good' QB, or more than a backup on several teams.

(FWIW, I would trade Smith for Grossman despite both having a similar level of production so far this season.)

Now you are just being insulting. "Similar level of production" my foot. Smith has been way better than Grossman this year.

FUNBUNCHER
10-11-2011, 10:23 AM
Grossman has thrown for more yards per game, one less TD, 4 more INTs, more total yards.

Alex Smith has a better completion percentage and protects the ball better, but IMO they're playing at a similar level, making just enough positive plays to help their teams win games.

abaddon41_80
10-11-2011, 10:45 AM
Grossman has thrown for more yards per game, one less TD, 4 more INTs, more total yards.

Alex Smith has a better completion percentage and protects the ball better, but IMO they're playing at a similar level, making just enough positive plays to help their teams win games.

They are not even playing at close to the same level. Grossman has more yards per game because he has attempted 11 more passes per game, he is averaging almost a full yard less per attempt. His TD percentage is 4.25, compared to 5.6% for Smith, his interception percentage is 3.5%, Smith's is .8%, and his QB rating is 78.7, Smith's is 104.1. Extrapolate Smith's pass attempts to the 36 per game of Grossman, he is currently at 25, and he would have 10 touchdowns to 2 interceptions and almost 1400 yards. Smith is playing efficient, game-managing football and making big plays often with almost no negative plays. Grossman is playing erratic football with as many negative plays as positive.

DraftSavant
10-11-2011, 11:18 AM
I'm saying there's roughly 5 or 6 starting QBs whose fans would be willing to trade for Alex Smith.
It's not an absolute metric, but there it is.

Again, I like Alex Smith personally and it would be cool IMO to see him come close to performing up to his draft status.

But when a guy has performed below expectations for most of his career,(yes I know there's context for that and should not be stated in a vacuum), having a few good games in 2011 isn't enough for me to believe he's turned the corner professionally.

That's why I brought up Rex Grossman as a comparison.

Before the season most pundits said the Skins had the worst QB situation on the league and would regret giving up on McNabb.
But so far Rexy has played solid football. Still has too many turnovers, but he moves the offense, spreads the ball around and doesn't gamble all the time with his reads or overestimate his arm strength.
Because Grossman has outplayed expectations before the season however doesn't mean he's now a 'good' QB, or more than a backup on several teams.

(FWIW, I would trade Smith for Grossman despite both having a similar level of production so far this season.)

And then the question you'd have to ask yourself is:
am I trading for Alex Smith? Or am I trading for a turd that's been polished up by Jim Harbaugh? Arizona should have asked themselves that same question when doing the Kolb trade.

These types of threads always make me chuckle. "Look, he's played okay for a month! Greatest QB evarrr." Well yeah, he's an NFL quarterback. This type of play is expected. NFL quarterbacks will have weeks/months where they play well, make the throws they need to, etc.

Can he keep this kind of play up? We'll see. I'm highly skeptical.

As always, people see what they want to see with QBs.

DraftSavant
10-11-2011, 11:20 AM
They are not even playing at close to the same level. Grossman has more yards per game because he has attempted 11 more passes per game, he is averaging almost a full yard less per attempt. His TD percentage is 4.25, compared to 5.6% for Smith, his interception percentage is 3.5%, Smith's is .8%, and his QB rating is 78.7, Smith's is 104.1. Extrapolate Smith's pass attempts to the 36 per game of Grossman, he is currently at 25, and he would have 10 touchdowns to 2 interceptions and almost 1400 yards. Smith is playing efficient, game-managing football and making big plays often with almost no negative plays. Grossman is playing erratic football with as many negative plays as positive.

The fact that you are having a debate about it and it's not a completely laughable idea tells you everything you need to know.

Smith is having a slightly better year statistically. They're still in the same tier.

Complex
10-11-2011, 11:20 AM
I don't want to turn this into a Newton thread, but you are delusional if you don't think Newton isn't already a top 15 QB.

Really a top 10 QB. I mean Matt Stafford was talked about being a top 5 QB already last week on this board.

Rosebud
10-11-2011, 12:03 PM
Really a top 10 QB. I mean Matt Stafford was talked about being a top 5 QB already last week on this board.

Well that's cause the only QB better than Stafford is Newton.

KCJ58
10-11-2011, 12:20 PM
how has this thread reached 4 almost 5 pages

DeathbyStat
10-11-2011, 12:21 PM
You heard it here first.

I was never a fan of Alex Smith. Even when he was drafted #1 overall. But Harbs has really turned his career around. He is becoming better at passing the football and creating a tight spiral. Hes also great at reading and physically and mentally reading defenses. He can make every throw and is very athletic. He finally has the supporting cast and defense to help him become a top 5 QB in the league.

Agree?

hahahahhahahhaa.......sorry....couldn't help myself

hawkeye123
10-11-2011, 12:24 PM
http://newsimg.ngfiles.com/228000/228909_Is_this_real_life.jpg

Brothgar
10-11-2011, 01:14 PM
http://newsimg.ngfiles.com/228000/228909_Is_this_real_life.jpg

http://images.memegenerator.net/instances/400x/10555071.jpg

yodabear
10-11-2011, 01:15 PM
Well Alex Smith was chosen 23 spots before Rodgers.....

abaddon41_80
10-11-2011, 01:21 PM
The fact that you are having a debate about it and it's not a completely laughable idea tells you everything you need to know.

Smith is having a slightly better year statistically. They're still in the same tier.

Slightly better is a ridiculous understatement. Smith is having a significantly better year statistically.

CC.SD
10-11-2011, 01:21 PM
Well Alex Smith was chosen 23 spots before Rodgers.....

So basically...

http://imgs.sfgate.com/blogs/images/sfgate/ninerinsider/2010/12/07/alexVarizona300x229.jpg + http://news.bbc.co.uk/media/images/38795000/jpg/_38795377_jordan87bulls_get.jpg = http://theredzonereport.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/04/aaron_rodgers.jpg ?

Brothgar
10-11-2011, 01:29 PM
First, Alex Smith is closer to Sexy Rexy than Aaron Rodgers. Secondly, how does anyone know that Rex couldn't be just as good if not better with that coaching staff and those weapons. Rex doesn't have Vernon Davis he has Chris Cooley. Rex doesn' have Crabs or Edwards. He has Santana Moss.

Ness
10-11-2011, 01:34 PM
First, Alex Smith is closer to Sexy Rexy than Aaron Rodgers. Secondly, how does anyone know that Rex couldn't be just as good if not better with that coaching staff and those weapons. Rex doesn't have Vernon Davis he has Chris Cooley. Rex doesn' have Crabs or Edwards. He has Santana Moss.

Edwards is hurt and Crabtree hasn't done anything. Vernon Davis is legitimate. Having Mike Shanahan as your coach is a pretty good thing.

abaddon41_80
10-11-2011, 01:37 PM
First, Alex Smith is closer to Sexy Rexy than Aaron Rodgers. Secondly, how does anyone know that Rex couldn't be just as good if not better with that coaching staff and those weapons. Rex doesn't have Vernon Davis he has Chris Cooley. Rex doesn' have Crabs or Edwards. He has Santana Moss.

Crabtree sucks and Edwards has been injured.

And, all joking aside and just based off of this year, Smith is closer to Rodgers than Grossman.

FUNBUNCHER
10-11-2011, 02:03 PM
Crabtree sucks and Edwards has been injured.

And, all joking aside and just based off of this year, Smith is closer to Rodgers than Grossman.

Since you're basing your argument for Alex Smith this season strictly off stats, you should go check out what Aaron Rodgers has done this season through 5 games.

Alex Smith statistically this season is much closer to Grossman than Rodgers.

And please don't argue that Rodgers has thrown the ball almost 60 more times than Alex Smith as if that explains the discrepancy in production.

For right now, I bet Harbaugh feels the less he requires Alex Smith to throw the football, the better.

abaddon41_80
10-11-2011, 02:45 PM
Since you're basing your argument for Alex Smith this season strictly off stats, you should go check out what Aaron Rodgers has done this season through 5 games.

Alex Smith statistically this season is much closer to Grossman than Rodgers.

And please don't argue that Rodgers has thrown the ball almost 60 more times than Alex Smith as if that explains the discrepancy in production.

For right now, I bet Harbaugh feels the less he requires Alex Smith to throw the football, the better.

Why would I not reference the fact that Rodgers has thrown the ball so much more when doing a comparison? The one time that Smith has been asked to take the game into his hands he did and led a 20-point second half comeback. Is it a knock against Smith that he didn't have to do much in most of our wins except manage the game?

For the record, Rodgers has been the best QB in the NFL this year no question. Smith, though, has been top 10. Grossman might just barely crack the top 20. At worst Smith is pretty much right in-between Grossman and Rodgers but you cannot possibly argue that Grossman has been close to as good as Smith, unless you base your entire argument on total yards and touchdowns without factoring in TD %, completion %, Y/A, INT % and QB rating.

DraftSavant
10-11-2011, 05:41 PM
Why would I not reference the fact that Rodgers has thrown the ball so much more when doing a comparison? The one time that Smith has been asked to take the game into his hands he did and led a 20-point second half comeback. Is it a knock against Smith that he didn't have to do much in most of our wins except manage the game?

You are not allowed to make this argument.

Slightly better is a ridiculous understatement. Smith is having a significantly better year statistically.

But Grossman has more pass attemptzzz, and, therefore, more responsibility and a higher probability for potentially negative plays. It isn't his fault!!!!

abaddon41_80
10-11-2011, 06:10 PM
You are not allowed to make this argument.



But Grossman has more pass attemptzzz, and, therefore, more responsibility and a higher probability for potentially negative plays. It isn't his fault!!!!

I knew that would be brought up and it isn't applicable for a few reasons.

1. Grossman is not playing with a horrible supporting cast. He Redskins have a top 10 defense and running game. My argument last year was that Manning's many attempts spoke to how much he was carrying a horrible team. Grossman is not carrying a bad team and he is still significantly worse than Smith.

2. Passing attempts are not the most important stat, and if you were around for that topic you would know I never said they were. What they are important for is judging how much a QB means to his team. If Grossman was throwing 11 more times than Smith and the Redskins were 3-1 with a bad supporting cast then I would agree that he has been about as good as Smith. But they don't have a bad supporting cast, certainly not much worse than the 49ers if it is at all. Both have allowed pretty much the same PPG, 15.6 to 15.8, and the Redskins have the higher ranked run game in yards and yards per carry.

3. My whole argument last year was not that attempts meant a QB was better, just that it was a good indicator of how valuable they are. Tom Brady was better than Manning last year, I will never argue that. I did argue that Manning was more valuable.

bored of education
10-11-2011, 06:19 PM
Aldon Smith has a better chance of being the next Aaron Rodgers.

tjsunstein
10-11-2011, 06:21 PM
I don't get why defensive stats are so heavily involved in QB comparisons all of the sudden.

abaddon41_80
10-11-2011, 06:28 PM
I don't get why defensive stats are so heavily involved in QB comparisons all of the sudden.

They should be involved if you are discussing a QBs importance to their team.

tjsunstein
10-11-2011, 06:30 PM
They should be involved if you are discussing a QBs importance to their team.
Define 'importance'.

PoopSandwich
10-11-2011, 06:34 PM
I think what he is saying is if you have a defense you cannot rely on you'll be more prone to force certain throws in trying to mount a comeback = more mistake prone.

Although importance is kind of an odd way to say it.

Rabscuttle
10-11-2011, 06:36 PM
I just want to see what he does over the course of the season along with guys like Crabtree and the turnstyle at right tackle. There are some very good signs for a team that is so new in this system and it is hard not to go manic after Erikson/Nolan/Singletary and what the Faithful have endured over that stretch.

He may not be elite but a 104 rating and 4-1 record isn't too shabby for a guy that is bottom five.

abaddon41_80
10-11-2011, 06:40 PM
Define 'importance'.

Well if one team is 4-1 with a top 10 defense and a QB with 150 pass attempts and another team is 4-1 with a bottom 10 defense an a QB with 250 pass attempts it is pretty obvious that the QB with 250 attempts is doing more for his team for them to have the same record with a much worse defense. That means QB B is more important to his team, as in if you take him away his team would be worse than team A if you took QB A away.

That is not the case here, though, because the 49ers and Redskins have similarly ranked defenses.

phlysac
10-11-2011, 08:37 PM
To me it's simple.

It's all about perception.

I don't blame people for laughing at anyone who says good things about Alex Smith as a player. Especially when they likely haven't seen ANY of his last 10 starts.

If he keeps up what he has done since last years Eagles' game, the media will get involved and perception will change. Until then, it is understandeable why people feel the way they do.

FUNBUNCHER
10-11-2011, 08:59 PM
To me it's simple.

It's all about perception.

I don't blame people for laughing at anyone who says good things about Alex Smith as a player. Especially when they likely haven't seen ANY of his last 10 starts.

If he keeps up what he has done since last years Eagles' game, the media will get involved and perception will change. Until then, it is understandeable why people feel the way they do.

Good point. I know I haven't seen Alex Smith's last 10 starts so I don't have a clue about what kind of game he's currently bringing to the football field.

Brent
10-11-2011, 09:38 PM
Good point. I know I haven't seen Alex Smith's last 10 starts so I don't have a clue about what kind of game he's currently bringing to the football field.
then why are you easily dismissing those games?

FUNBUNCHER
10-11-2011, 11:04 PM
then why are you easily dismissing those games?

How much bank can you put into 10 games?? At best it's a positive trend, but even when you look at Smith's statistical production from the end of last season, his numbers were only 'good' for a QB who's not really considered to be that effective in the first place.

Alex Smith doesn't have to hit these career milestones this season, but if the 49ers keep winning football games and win the NFCW which seems more plausible with every game, his reputation league wide is going to flip.

Alex Smith will universally be regarded as a 'good' QB who was a late bloomer that battled injuries and multiple OCs but has finally hit his groove.

At this early date, for me Alex Smith's previous 5 seasons in the NFL outweigh whatever he's done the last 10 games.
But he is playing winning football.

binary
10-12-2011, 12:29 AM
Good point. I know I haven't seen Alex Smith's last 10 starts so I don't have a clue about what kind of game he's currently bringing to the football field.

lol, wtf...smh. what a waste of time.

jack1077
10-12-2011, 01:12 AM
Define 'importance'.

Peyton Manning.

BigBanger
10-12-2011, 04:29 AM
Good point. I know I haven't seen Alex Smith's last 10 starts so I don't have a clue about what kind of game he's currently bringing to the football field.

EEGi7Hm7UgA&feature=related

abaddon41_80
10-12-2011, 07:01 AM
At this early date, for me Alex Smith's previous 5 seasons in the NFL outweigh whatever he's done the last 10 games.

The problem with that comment is that, before his last 10 games, he only had about three seasons worth of games. He was injured for half of 2005 and 2007 and didn't play in 2008 at all. And in those three seasons he wasn't even that bad outside of his rookie year and his last three games in 2007.

phlysac
10-12-2011, 10:32 AM
and his last three games in 2007.

Which were the games he tried to play with a separated throwing shoulder because his coach threw him under the bus and questioned his toughness.

A Perfect Score
10-12-2011, 10:43 AM
EEGi7Hm7UgA&feature=related

I hate you less after this post. Excellence.

DraftSavant
10-12-2011, 10:46 AM
then why are you easily dismissing those games?

Because he's an NFL quarterback and, as such, should be capable of stringing together some nice games.

Remember, Rex Grossman was an MVP candidate 6 games into the 2006 season.

Jvig43
10-12-2011, 10:47 AM
"Guys you can't judge a Qb after simply ten games an- OMG CAM IS SUPASTAAAAAAAAAA!"

Also, I think we need a thread asking "If Alex Smith wins a superbowl, will he be GOAT?"

A Perfect Score
10-12-2011, 10:49 AM
"Guys you can't judge a Qb after somply ten games an- OMG CAM IS SUPASTAAAAAAAAAA!"

Also, I think we need a thread asking "If Alex Smith wins a superbowl, will he be GOAT?"

Bahahahahaha Cam Newton. SUPASTAR!

abaddon41_80
10-12-2011, 11:23 AM
Because he's an NFL quarterback and, as such, should be capable of stringing together some nice games.

Remember, Rex Grossman was an MVP candidate 6 games into the 2006 season.

The first five games. The sixth game was when he threw four interceptions in-route to letting the Cardinals off of the hook.

FUNBUNCHER
10-12-2011, 11:50 AM
lol, wtf...smh. what a waste of time.


Yeah it's impossible to discuss Alex Smith unless you've seen his last 10 starts to determine where he currently is as a pro.

That makes about as much sense as arguing if you haven't watched every snap of Rex Grossman's last 8 starts, you've somehow missed his 'magical' transformation into a pro bowler.

Playing decently in 10 games,(it's wrong btw to link the last five games of 2010 and couple them with the first 5 games of 2011..different seasons, rosters, coaches etc.) doesn't mean a previously bad QB is suddenly a good one.
It means they're less bad than they were before.

Also a rookie playing well the first 5 games of his career AND setting passing records in his first two starts is a world of difference from a guy who was a NFL non-entity for his entire career, except for a string of games at the end of last season and the beginning of 2011.

phlysac
10-12-2011, 12:21 PM
Remember, Rex Grossman was an MVP candidate 6 games into the 2006 season.

That's extremely relevant in optimism and pessimism. It shows that Smith can easily regress, but it also shows that if Grossman was considered so highly, that Smith can be too.

Let's compare those "MVP Candidate" numbers through 5 games with Smith through 5 games...

2006 Grossman - 61% | 8.2/A | 10 TD | 2 Ints | 102.64 Rating

2011 A. Smith -- 66% | 7.7/A | 7 TDs | 1 Ints | 104.1 Rating

A Perfect Score
10-12-2011, 12:28 PM
That's extremely relevant in optimism and pessimism. It shows that Smith can easily regress, but it also shows that if Grossman was considered so highly, that Smith can be too.

Let's compare those "MVP Candidate" numbers through 5 games with Smith through 5 games...

2006 Grossman - 61% | 8.2/A | 10 TD | 2 Ints | 102.64 Rating

2011 A. Smith -- 66% | 7.7/A | 7 TDs | 1 Ints | 104.1 Rating

Despite those numbers, Smith has only thrown for 965 yards. To put that in perspective, Rodgers and Brady, the two QBs ahead of him in passer rating, have thrown for 1721 and 1874, respectively, not to mention they've both thrown twice as many TDs as Smith. He's having a nice start to the season, but let's not get carried away. Alex Smith is nowhere near the MVP talk right now.

phlysac
10-12-2011, 12:31 PM
Despite those numbers, Smith has only thrown for 965 yards. To put that in perspective, Rodgers and Brady, the two QBs ahead of him in passer rating, have thrown for 1721 and 1874, respectively, not to mention they've both thrown twice as many TDs as Smith. He's having a nice start to the season, but let's not get carried away. Alex Smith is nowhere near the MVP talk right now.

They also have 54 and 70 more attempts respectively. Extrapolated that puts Smith's yardage at 1381 and 1464.

However, my intention is NOT to compare him to Rodgers or Brady. I'm just saying that if Grossman was considered an MVP candidate with his numbers, Smith should be recognized for good play and not the perception that he's terrible.

tjsunstein
10-12-2011, 01:06 PM
So this whole thread was for everyone to come to the general consensus that Alex Smith isn't that bad? What a waste of time.

Saints-Tigers
10-12-2011, 01:39 PM
SUcks that he put a few good games together. Really handicaps a franchise when terrible QB's throw a monkey wrench in the QB hunt.

Ness
10-12-2011, 02:06 PM
SUcks that he put a few good games together. Really handicaps a franchise when terrible QB's throw a monkey wrench in the QB hunt.

Or maybe he's just not terrible anymore. This is actually possible.

Ness
10-12-2011, 02:06 PM
So this whole thread was for everyone to come to the general consensus that Alex Smith isn't that bad? What a waste of time.

Yeah well, some people are still morons and don't get that simple concept.

abaddon41_80
10-12-2011, 02:16 PM
Someone on another forum told me that his passer rating is so high because he just throws short passes so I looked at some numbers for YAC, because his Y/A of 7.7 obviously isn't indicative of checking down, of the top five in QB rating.

Alex Smith: 472 YAC, 126 pass attempts = 3.7 YAC/attempt

Tom Brady: 835 YAC, 196 pass attempts = 4.3 YAC/attempt

Aaron Rodgers: 847 YAC, 180 pass attempts = 4.7 YAC/attempt

Eli Manning: 649 YAC, 164 pass attempts = 4.0 YAC/attempt

Drew Brees: 846 YAC, 219 pass attempts = 3.9 YAC/attempt

Smith gets the least YAC/attempt of any of them and he also has the highest percentage of dropped passes by far.

Alex Smith: 126 attempts, 10 drops = 7.9%

Tom Brady: 196 attempts, 4 drops = 2%

Aaron Rodgers: 180 attempts, 6 drops = 3.3%

Eli Manning: 164 pass attempts, 5 drops = 3%

Drew Brees: 219 pass attempts, 5 drops = 2.3%

Just for fun, I gave Smith the same YAC/attempt and drop % as the second lowest in the top five in QB rating and his numbers are,

89/126 (70.6%)
1060 yards
8.4 Y/A
7 TD
1 INT
111 QB rating

That would put him #2 in QB rating and completion percentage, behind only Rodgers, and tied for 4th in Y/A, behind Brady, Rodgers and Eli.

Saints-Tigers
10-12-2011, 02:18 PM
Or maybe he's just not terrible anymore. This is actually possible.

No.

And YAC is a lot on the QB. Part of the reason guys get more YAC is because of a great QB's ball placement and ability to catch in stride.

abaddon41_80
10-12-2011, 02:29 PM
No.

And YAC is a lot on the QB. Part of the reason guys get more YAC is because of a great QB's ball placement and ability to catch in stride.

True enough. Even with his YAC/attempt remaining the same, adding in the yardage from dropped passes (11.6 yards/completion * six drops, bringing his drop % to 3.3%) would bring his total yards up to 1034 and give him a Y/A of 8.2 and QB rating of 110.

jrdrylie
10-12-2011, 02:33 PM
They also have 54 and 70 more attempts respectively. Extrapolated that puts Smith's yardage at 1381 and 1464.

However, my intention is NOT to compare him to Rodgers or Brady. I'm just saying that if Grossman was considered an MVP candidate with his numbers, Smith should be recognized for good play and not the perception that he's terrible.

Shaun Hill has 28 yards, but Rogers and Brady have 179 and 195 more attempts respectively. Extrapolated that puts Hill's yardage at 5012 and 5488.

It lookes like Shaun Hill, not Alex Smith, is the next Rogers.

abaddon41_80
10-12-2011, 02:57 PM
Shaun Hill has 28 yards, but Rogers and Brady have 179 and 195 more attempts respectively. Extrapolated that puts Hill's yardage at 5012 and 5488.

It lookes like Shaun Hill, not Alex Smith, is the next Rogers.

I get your point but it isn't really valid because Smith has thrown the ball 126 times and his Y/A has already leveled out. Besides, it is not like he is averaging 10 Y/A one game and then 5 Y/A the next. The range of his Y/A by game is less than Matt Stafford's.

phlysac
10-12-2011, 05:03 PM
Shaun Hill has 28 yards, but Rogers and Brady have 179 and 195 more attempts respectively. Extrapolated that puts Hill's yardage at 5012 and 5488.

It lookes like Shaun Hill, not Alex Smith, is the next Rogers.

And because Multiple-spread receiver, pass heavy offensive systems are comparable in general to Power-based 3 TE set offenses.

It's like comparing Oklahoma State's passing attempts with Alabama's.

Brent
10-13-2011, 05:44 AM
http://blog.sfgate.com/49ers/2011/10/12/warners-rankings-rodgers-brady-brees-and-alex-smith/

"On Wednesday, Warner, an NFL Network analyst, ranked Smith as the fourth-best quarterback in the NFL this season, behind Aaron Rodgers, Tom Brady and Drew Brees and ahead of Matthew Stafford."

I believe he got it wrong.

tjsunstein
10-13-2011, 07:23 AM
And because Multiple-spread receiver, pass heavy offensive systems are comparable in general to Power-based 3 TE set offenses.

It's like comparing Oklahoma State's passing attempts with Alabama's.
Didn't you know you have to put up all world stats to not suck? People are flat out denying the fact that he's been solid dating back to last season for whatever reason. Is he the answer? It looks like we'll find out by the end of the season. He certainly hasn't be a superstar or bottom 10 QB this year, and I'd comfortably say he's been a top 10 QB through 5 weeks.

DraftSavant
10-13-2011, 12:35 PM
Just read this, and thought it'd be appropriate here.

You should all follow this guy's work; one of my favorite football writers.

The Tape Never Lies: The Rebirth of Alex Smith (http://blogs.thescore.com/nfl/2011/10/13/the-tape-never-lies-the-rebirth-of-49ers-qb-alex-smith/)

Iamcanadian
10-13-2011, 01:24 PM
Say what you want and I'm not saying I completely agree, but Kurt Warner just named Alex Smith on NFL Network, the #4 QB in the NFL currently. Just have to see if he continues to excel or falls back on old habits.

Ness
10-13-2011, 01:27 PM
No.

And YAC is a lot on the QB. Part of the reason guys get more YAC is because of a great QB's ball placement and ability to catch in stride.

No it's not possible or no it's not what you want to hear?

CC.SD
10-13-2011, 01:29 PM
So this whole thread was for everyone to come to the general consensus that Alex Smith isn't that bad? What a waste of time.

um every thread here is a waste of time.

tjsunstein
10-13-2011, 01:50 PM
um every thread here is a waste of time.
Sadly, you're absolutely right.

prock
10-13-2011, 01:53 PM
Sadly, you're absolutely right.

If you aren't trying to waste time, then you have no reason to be on SWDC.

BigBanger
10-13-2011, 01:55 PM
um every thread here is a waste of time.

I think I'm going to go post in the thread discussing LeBron James playing in the NFL.

tjsunstein
10-13-2011, 01:57 PM
If you aren't trying to waste time, then you have no reason to be on SWDC.
It's the ultimate time waster, and it looks like I'm very into note taking when I post in class.

Caulibflower
10-13-2011, 02:30 PM
I noticed that pro-football-reference.com has a stat for game-winning drives when I noticed that Alex Smith had some stats in bold (indicated leading the league). He is currently leading, or tied for the league lead, in game winning drives this season with 2. I will take that stat over QB rating, fwiw. Not really even trying to pump up Alex Smith that much, but he is having a really good year so far.

Bengalsrocket
10-13-2011, 02:44 PM
I noticed that pro-football-reference.com has a stat for game-winning drives when I noticed that Alex Smith had some stats in bold (indicated leading the league). He is currently leading, or tied for the league lead, in game winning drives this season with 2. I will take that stat over QB rating, fwiw. Not really even trying to pump up Alex Smith that much, but he is having a really good year so far.

To be fair, there are a total of 8 players with 2 game winning drives this year, a list that includes Drew Brees, Matt Stafford, Ryan Fitzpatrick, Eli Manning, Andy Dalton (Andy ballin' all over defenses in the 4th quarter), Josh Freeman, Tony Romo and Alex Smith. It's kind of a misleading stat this early into the season because of how few games everyone has played.

Caulibflower
10-13-2011, 02:55 PM
To be fair, there are a total of 8 players with 2 game winning drives this year, a list that includes Drew Brees, Matt Stafford, Ryan Fitzpatrick, Eli Manning, Andy Dalton (Andy ballin' all over defenses in the 4th quarter), Josh Freeman, Tony Romo and Alex Smith. It's kind of a misleading stat this early into the season because of how few games everyone has played.

I know it's early in the season. But, continuing in the vein of being fair, that's a list of players you wouldn't normally group with Alex Smith. And Smith, throughout his career, has basically been the antithesis of clutch, so this is either an aberration or a hint that he may finally be figuring it out. And you know, I think he's still only like 26. Might be 27. Maybe Harbaugh's just what he needed.