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View Full Version : JAY Cutler is a FRANCHISE QB.


FUNBUNCHER
10-10-2011, 09:02 PM
He's streaky, but when he gets into a 'rhythm' making throws that don't really make any sense throwing, he's a rare player IMO.

Dan Snyder should have offered the Broncos another 1st rounder to sign him.

Jvig43
10-10-2011, 09:03 PM
But the real question is, is he a SUPASTAAAAR?

ElectricEye
10-10-2011, 09:05 PM
Cruise Control For Kool



...

TACKLE
10-10-2011, 09:05 PM
But the real question is, is he a SUPASTAAAAR?

no it's not.

ChiFan24
10-10-2011, 09:06 PM
Dude don't turn my favorite player into a joke like you managed to do with Cam Newton.

I have never been more impressed with Jay than I am in this half, and I agree with the thread. But let somebody else start it for God's sake.....

PoopSandwich
10-10-2011, 09:10 PM
It would be nice if Cutler had a Calvin Johnson or an offensive line.

Jvig43
10-10-2011, 09:11 PM
What is going on with the random caps btw?

BigBanger
10-10-2011, 09:13 PM
Such a worthless thread.

wogitalia
10-10-2011, 09:23 PM
Such a worthless thread.

Stop making sense, it ruins the thread.

Splat
10-10-2011, 09:37 PM
Yes, he is a QB for a NFL franchise.

ChiFan24
10-10-2011, 09:42 PM
I say everyone should be allowed one favor from the mods. My one favor, and I am literally begging, is to close this thread. Please.

FUNBUNCHER
10-10-2011, 09:44 PM
Yes, he is a QB for a NFL franchise.

Yup, just like Brady and Henne are both 'franchise' QBs. Exact same thing.

Or is that too literal???
Or where you missing at being funny??

Brent
10-10-2011, 09:46 PM
I say everyone should be allowed one favor from the mods. My one favor, and I am literally begging, is to close this thread. Please.
http://hollywooddame.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/07/Jay-Cutler.jpg

we get favors?

niel89
10-10-2011, 09:47 PM
When was he not?

ChiFan24
10-10-2011, 09:50 PM
http://hollywooddame.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/07/Jay-Cutler.jpg

we get favors?

Well actually I don't care if anyone else gets favors.....I'd like one though.

FUNBUNCHER
10-10-2011, 09:53 PM
Dude relax.

vidae
10-10-2011, 09:56 PM
we get favors?

Of course you do big boy ;)

Caulibflower
10-10-2011, 09:58 PM
FUNBUNCHER is actually Jon Gruden and Ron Jaworski's secretly shared NFLDC account.

J-Mike88
10-10-2011, 09:58 PM
Dude don't turn my favorite player into a joke like you managed to do with Cam Newton.

I have never been more impressed with Jay than I am in this half, and I agree with the thread. But let somebody else start it for God's sake.....
I agree that first half by Cutler was All-Pro material.
For what he had to work with, both in terms of the horrible OL, the super Lions DL, and those WRs for Chicago, Cutler's 1st half was an A+ in my opinion.

Still not enough as the Lions will roll with the superior playmakers.

thegreatone
10-10-2011, 10:23 PM
I wish he was on the Ravens.

bucfan12
10-10-2011, 11:04 PM
Kind of feel bad for Cutler. Never has time to throw the ball or even finish his drop bacl. And he doesn't compain about it either. (Cough..Vick)

Breed
10-10-2011, 11:07 PM
I wish he was on the Ravens.

But you guys have Flacco...

descendency
10-10-2011, 11:19 PM
Dude don't turn my favorite player into a joke

Too late. (10 char)

FUNBUNCHER
10-10-2011, 11:20 PM
I almost feel bad for thinking Cutler wimped out of the NFCC last season. He's a tough guy for a QB.

ChiFan24
10-10-2011, 11:28 PM
Too late. (10 char)

Well at least I tried....

tjsunstein
10-10-2011, 11:45 PM
Very loose definition of franchise QB is being used here lately. There's a difference between a serviceable QB and a franchise QBs. There aren't 12 franchise QBs in the league.

Raiderz4Life
10-10-2011, 11:48 PM
Damn it. I love Jay Cutler. Wanted him in Oakland instead of Michael Huff. -_- plz let's not drive him into the mud.

Ugh...Funbuncher strikes again

Mr. Goosemahn
10-10-2011, 11:53 PM
Damn it. I love Jay Cutler. Wanted him in Oakland instead of Michael Huff. -_- plz let's not drive him into the mud.

Ugh...Funbuncher strikes again

I see what you did.

In any case, is this what you had in mind?

http://images.memegenerator.net/instances/400x/10543669.jpg

http://images.memegenerator.net/instances/400x/10053525.jpg

http://images.memegenerator.net/instances/400x/10543693.jpg

http://images.memegenerator.net/instances/400x/10543715.jpg

http://images.memegenerator.net/instances/400x/9416966.jpg

http://images.memegenerator.net/instances/400x/10543792.jpg

http://images.memegenerator.net/instances/400x/10543814.jpg

wogitalia
10-10-2011, 11:58 PM
Now I can get around where this thread is headed.

ChiFan24
10-11-2011, 01:17 AM
I just had a bowl of honey nut cheerios. That's the only reason my blood pressure isn't at dangerously high levels right now.

RCAChainGang
10-11-2011, 01:31 AM
I actually was having an argument earlier tonight about this. This guy in my dorm acts like he is the end all knowledge on football because he played for a year in college. It doesn't mean anything that I have been watching it my entire life and played in high school.

I was saying if you put Jay Cutler on a team where he can have time to throw and have some decent targets then he would thrive. I'm a homer when it comes to him because Vandy is my underdog team I cheer for. I have liked him since he has been at Vandy.

Anyway, this guy on my floor was arguing that he isn't a top ten qb. It is kinda close, but lets be real. Give him a target and a line and he will do very well.

For some reason I am fond of Tony Romo, Matthew Stafford, and Jay Cutler. I think they are all fantastic qb's that have had trouble.

Romo - the struggles at ending games
Stafford - Injuries
Cutler - not ideal situations
I want these guys to succeed.

Complex
10-11-2011, 01:32 AM
I see what you did.

In any case, is this what you had in mind?

http://images.memegenerator.net/instances/400x/10543669.jpg

http://images.memegenerator.net/instances/400x/10053525.jpg

http://images.memegenerator.net/instances/400x/10543693.jpg

http://images.memegenerator.net/instances/400x/10543715.jpg

http://images.memegenerator.net/instances/400x/9416966.jpg

http://images.memegenerator.net/instances/400x/10543792.jpg

http://images.memegenerator.net/instances/400x/10543814.jpg

He is smiling obviously a fake

real Jay Cutler

http://www.dailyernebraskan.com/img/photo_illustrations/jaycutlershat.jpg

jsagan77
10-11-2011, 01:38 AM
I'd love for Chicago to trade him to the Skins for a 2nd rounder and us grab a top flight WR in the draft or FA so he can live up to his potential.

Brent
10-11-2011, 06:04 AM
I just had a bowl of honey nut cheerios. That's the only reason my blood pressure isn't at dangerously high levels right now.
you need a hug?

http://www1.pictures.zimbio.com/gi/Aaron+Rodgers+Jay+Cutler+2011+NFC+Championship+O39 GEsXsDx4l.jpg

OzTitan
10-11-2011, 06:50 AM
Jay may be pretty damn good if he had better targets and really awesome blocking, but that's not what a franchise QB is, IMO. Not that a QB should be able to do everything on his own to be a "franchise QB", but what happens if his #1 WR goes down - is he back to what he is right now? That's a soft definition of a franchise QB.

It's an exclusive club, franchise QBs. Jay may yet prove to be worthy, but I don't think he has yet proven the only thing holding him back is everyone but himself.

FUNBUNCHER
10-11-2011, 07:05 AM
Cutler doesn't have a true #1 WR to throw to on the Bears roster. Hester is getting better, but his route running is iffy and he's not consistent catching the football.

Johnny Knox may be the fastest guy playing for Chicago, but he's not a #1 WR, Roy Williams quit playing pro football years ago and Sanzenbacher is whatever.

TE Kellen Davis IMO is underrated but he's not the WR threat that Greg Olsen was.

People sometimes dismiss what Cutler is doing in that mismatched Bears offense, but put a QB back there without his mobility, durability or arm and the difference IMO would be severe.

Mike Vick would be physically destroyed playing for the Bears.

Forte is finally healthy which is a huge boost, but the Bears offense still revolves around #6, good or bad.

tjsunstein
10-11-2011, 07:25 AM
If you give any QB a true number one WR and awesome blocking, he's going to be a lot better but that's irrelevant to how he's currently playing and weighed with how he's played in the past. You can''t just hypothetically give QBs a true #1 WR, and a great offensive line then say how you think they would play. It's never worked that way. Plus, Cutler doesn't have the attitude of a franchise QB, he's a pouting little *****.

tjsunstein
10-11-2011, 07:26 AM
Another case of a guy being underrated because he doesn't have that true #1 at WR, yet Stafford has Calvin so it's not fair to say Stafford is better than Cutler?

bearfan
10-11-2011, 07:27 AM
Jay may be pretty damn good if he had better targets and really awesome blocking, but that's not what a franchise QB is, IMO. Not that a QB should be able to do everything on his own to be a "franchise QB", but what happens if his #1 WR goes down - is he back to what he is right now? That's a soft definition of a franchise QB.

It's an exclusive club, franchise QBs. Jay may yet prove to be worthy, but I don't think he has yet proven the only thing holding him back is everyone but himself.

I am not the biggest Cutler fan, but if you have watched the Bears you would realize that much of your definition doesn't apply to Jay. It is not if he had "better targets and awesome blocking", it is if he can get an upgrade from average recievers to maybe an above average reciever and if he can get an upgrade from HS Quality OL to something where he can set his feed more than 40% of the time.

Much like any QB, Jay will benefit from all of what you said, but as of right now it IS those things holding him back.

SolidGold
10-11-2011, 07:45 AM
The offensive line is the main culprit here, Cutler was getting hit so much yesterday and barely had time to throw the ball. Martz refuses to adjust his playcalling to protect Cutler. The only player worth anything on that line is Carimi and he was out last night. This upcoming draft they need to address the o-line badly. Luckily Center has a pretty good draft class with Ben Jones, Brewster and Konz all worthy of 2nd-3rd round picks. They need to pick up another OG/OT as well. Nate Potter, Datko, Adcock, Reiff could all be possibilities in the first round.

Nalej
10-11-2011, 08:03 AM
I came away extremely impressed with Cutler yesterday.
He had zero time to throw, was constantly running for his life and was still completing some incredible passes.
Give him an average line... and you'd see an even better Cutler.

I feel bad for him.

JHL6719
10-11-2011, 08:30 AM
Jay Cutler is one of the 3 most physically talented QB's in the league. I haven't seen anyone get constantly pounded into the turf and harrassed by defenders literally week in and week out like he does since David Carr was in Houston.

Give this guy something even resembling pass protection for ****'s sake and he'll do very, very well IMO.

TheMorningZoo
10-11-2011, 08:33 AM
Cutler IMO is a "Franchise" QB, yet hasn't been performing like one in some time. The fact he took Chicago as far as they did last year with that garbage O-line says something. I remember when he took over the Offense and Chicago fans were saying how much he opened up the playbook based alone on arm strength (Orton couldn't make half the throws, etc.). Obviously as we saw last night, he has to have one of the worst O-Lines in quite some time. If they keep it up I wouldn't be surprised if he turns into David Carr, granted we have already seen what Jay is capable of. Give him a true no.1, and an O-Line that can actually let him dropback and Chicago can be back in the swing of things. They can't run block for **** either.

descendency
10-11-2011, 08:35 AM
This is Jay Cutler's happy face:

http://lockersmash.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/09/jay-cutler-punchy-face1-150x150.jpg

This is Cutler's sad face:

http://lockersmash.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/09/jay-cutler-punchy-face1-150x150.jpg

This is Cutler imitating the Manningface:

http://lockersmash.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/09/jay-cutler-punchy-face1-150x150.jpg

Here's Cutler's face after him and his former Supermodel GF broke up:

http://lockersmash.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/09/jay-cutler-punchy-face1-150x150.jpg

FUNBUNCHER
10-11-2011, 08:42 AM
Another case of a guy being underrated because he doesn't have that true #1 at WR, yet Stafford has Calvin so it's not fair to say Stafford is better than Cutler?

Stafford wouldn't be nearly as effective playing for Chicago.
Stafford's a good QB, but he's also is in a much better situation offensively.

jrdrylie
10-11-2011, 08:51 AM
I'd love for Chicago to trade him to the Skins for a 2nd rounder and us grab a top flight WR in the draft or FA so he can live up to his potential.

If the Bears only got a second for Cutler, they would be getting robbed.

jrdrylie
10-11-2011, 09:05 AM
If you give any QB a true number one WR and awesome blocking, he's going to be a lot better but that's irrelevant to how he's currently playing and weighed with how he's played in the past. You can''t just hypothetically give QBs a true #1 WR, and a great offensive line then say how you think they would play. It's never worked that way. Plus, Cutler doesn't have the attitude of a franchise QB, he's a pouting little *****.

Cutler has every right to pout. He was a Pro Bowl QB. Then Josh McDaniels comes in, gets rid of all his playmakers, and tries to replace him with Matt Cassel. He goes to Chicago and plays behind the worst offensive line in the league and a bunch of crap at receiver. The next offseason, they don't use a single pick on the offensive line or receiver. Instead they bring in Mike Martz, who is the worst possible coordinator for Chicago's personnel. His second season, he gets the crap knocked out of him even more, tears something in his knee, and then is called a ***** when he doesn't play. Last offseason, they have over $30 million in cap space. Sign a tackle? Nope. How about a solid receiver? We don't need that. How about Roy Williams and Marion ******* Barber. Then his only serviceable offensive lineman gets injured. Jay Cutler has every right to pout. He has every right to walk into the locker room, line up Garza, Webb, Omiyale, Williams, Louis, Lovie, Martz, and Jerry Angelo, kick them in the nuts, give them the finger, and say "**** You! I'm out of here. Good luck with Caleb Hanie."

CC.SD
10-11-2011, 09:05 AM
The Bears o line is so atrocious you almost can't judge Cutler. But they might block better for him if he wasn't such a douchenozzle, so who knows.

jrdrylie
10-11-2011, 09:09 AM
Cutler possibly being a douche has nothing to do with it. Jay could let his line take turns banging his hot girlfriend and they still wouldn't block better because they don't have the ability to. They are all piss poor excuses for football players.

thegreatone
10-11-2011, 10:04 AM
Could you imagine Cutler with Baltimore?
- Good o-line
- True #1 in Boldin, and deep threat in Lee Evans
- promising young TE's, and WR's
- Maybe the best dual threat in the NFL (Ray Rice)
- A D that is consistently elite
- Not to mention this guy has a winning record against Pittsburgh

TheMorningZoo
10-11-2011, 11:33 AM
I also don't understand the obsession with J'Marcus Webb. I know Tice likes big OL prospects, but the guy just flat out doesn't have it. He was a top prep recruit to Texas, left (not sure if kicked out or the reason) and played at some small school if I recall. Then they have Frank Omiyale a the other Tackle spot. The guys they have just aren't very good. It is too bad Carimi got injured, he is a stud! If I were them I would invest a lot in the Offensive Line this Draft and Offseason, if they want their Franchise QB to even be feasible.

tjsunstein
10-11-2011, 11:38 AM
Just imagine if Cutler had Calvin Johnson, Larry Fitzgerald, and Andre Johnson in the slot. Adrian Peterson behind him, and 5 All Pros along the line. And the best TE in the league.

And an incredible defense led by Revis, Asomugha, and Willis.

Too bad it doesn't work like that.

Da-Phins
10-11-2011, 11:47 AM
Cutler would be a franchise QB if he had a damn OL to protect him. I dunno who's is worst, the Bears or the Dolphins OL.

tjsunstein
10-11-2011, 11:49 AM
Cutler could be a franchise QB if he had an offensive line, but right now he doesn't and all he's done is show flashes of potential. Franchise QBs are more than a couple of good passes in a bad situation.

niel89
10-11-2011, 12:27 PM
Just give Cutler a middle of the road offense around him and he would be showing up in a big way. The very good player on that offense is Forte. That game last night really showed how poor that OL is. I really hope it doesn't start to mentally affect him like Carr or something.

bucfan12
10-11-2011, 12:31 PM
Honestly, just give Cutler an average offensive line. He's done pretty good in my opinion with an offensive line that's absolute garbage.

Raiderz4Life
10-11-2011, 12:36 PM
I think it should be a new rule that Packer fans not be allowed into QB discussions

Complex
10-11-2011, 12:41 PM
I think it should be a new rule that Packer fans not be allowed into QB discussions

I 2nd this motion

prock
10-11-2011, 12:45 PM
I think it should be a new rule that Packer fans not be allowed into QB discussions

I think motion is passed.

tjsunstein
10-11-2011, 12:47 PM
I think it should be a new rule that Packer fans not be allowed into QB discussions
Yeah, they should only be for fans of teams with terrible quarterbacks or 'serviceable starters' because Packers fans aren't fair. They like a team with too much surrounding talent.

DraftSavant
10-11-2011, 12:48 PM
Stafford wouldn't be nearly as effective playing for Chicago.
Stafford's a good QB, but he's also is in a much better situation offensively.

I agree.....because they are THE EXACT SAME ******* PLAYER.

PoopSandwich
10-11-2011, 12:55 PM
http://thesportsminion.files.wordpress.com/2011/01/jay-cutler-bb.jpg

JAY CUTLER INCEPTION STYLE

San Diego Chicken
10-11-2011, 12:59 PM
Honestly, just give Cutler an average offensive line. He's done pretty good in my opinion with an offensive line that's absolute garbage.

He had a very good OL in Denver, plus Brandon Marshall, and he wasn't much better. He is what he is. He will never be an ultra efficient QB like Rodgers (remember two years ago when his OL was even worse?)

The Martz scheme doesn't help things either. Go down the list of everyone whose played for him, they've all been beaten to a pulp.

FUNBUNCHER
10-11-2011, 01:15 PM
Cutler led a flawed Bears team to the conference championship game last year.
A Bears team that couldn't run the football effectively I might add.

I don't know how people are looking at a guy who's expected to play like Superman every Sunday isn't considered a franchise QB.

tjsunstein
10-11-2011, 01:16 PM
He had a very good OL in Denver, plus Brandon Marshall, and he wasn't much better. He is what he is. He will never be an ultra efficient QB like Rodgers (remember two years ago when his OL was even worse?)
People are forgetting what happened prior to this week, yet alone two years ago.

tjsunstein
10-11-2011, 01:19 PM
I don't know how people are looking at a guy who's expected to play like Superman every Sunday isn't considered a franchise QB.
Franchise QBs are Superman. Jay Cutler is not. And if he's expected to play like Superman, and doesn't then what is he?

Cutler could be a franchise QB at some point, but he isn't right now.

I don't think people realize the magnitude of labeling someone a 'Franchise QB'.

Tom Brady
Aaron Rodgers
Peyton Manning
Drew Brees
Philip Rivers
Ben Roethlisberger

That's it.
Vick isn't.
Flacco and Sanchez aren't
Cam Newton might be but it's 5 games into his rookie season so relax.

What is the definition of franchise QB? First, I'd have to go with consistency, and talent. Football IQ. Then leadership.

Does Jay Cutler have the look of a 'Franchise QB' week in and week out?

FUNBUNCHER
10-11-2011, 01:54 PM
A franchise QB IMO isn't just about which QBs are the most consistent game in and game out.

A franchise QB is a player who's recognized as having rare or unique talent for the position AND is saddled with the responsibility and expectation to lead the team to wins on the football field, often by his play alone.

I just don't agree that a QB isn't a 'franchise' QB because he's not consistent game to game, or year to year.

I agree that Sanchez to me hasn't proven he's a franchise QB. Great expectations, but I question his raw ability.

Flacco, sometimes I wonder about his competitive killer instincts but otherwise he meets the burden for me at least of being a 'franchise' QB, he's just not one of the truly elite guys yet.

Eli Manning is a franchise QB. The NYG front office and fan base have huge expectations for him and expect him to live up to that billing. Eli isn't as consistent as he should be, but we also know Eli's 'A' game is a level most QBs simply are not capable of playing at for any stretch of games, especially in the playoffs.

Vick, because of his physical talent and production I consider him also to be a franchise QB.

Being a franchise QB doesn't mean you're clutch all the time, or master of the 2 minute drive all the time to win games, or never throw untimely interceptions.

But it does mean when he's on his game, a franchise QB can elevate his level of play and the entire offense to dominance.

Aaron Rodgers for instance plays on an outstanding offensive football team, but HE'S the one who makes them formidable for any D in the league to shut down, instead of just being a competitive offensive unit with talented skill position players.

Cutler IMO is clearly a franchise QB if for no other reason that Peyton/Rivers/Brady/Brees would struggle to be successful in a similar situation.

If a QB can turn crap into a vinaigrette crap salad, that QB is 'special'.

San Diego Chicken
10-11-2011, 02:02 PM
^^^
So, Funbunch, all you need to be a "franchise qb" is physical talent and to be a starting level player? Ideally all teams saddle their QB's with great responsibility.

FUNBUNCHER
10-11-2011, 02:18 PM
And the ability to play the game at a high level, SDC.
I just have a slightly looser definition of a franchise QB. IMO you don't have to be top 5-6 in the NFL to be a franchise QB.

San Diego Chicken
10-11-2011, 02:19 PM
And the ability to play the game at a high level, SDC.
I just have a slightly looser definition of a franchise QB. IMO you don't have to be top 5-6 in the NFL to be a franchise QB.

Fair enough.

MetSox17
10-11-2011, 02:52 PM
The Bears offensive line has been terrible for years, how has this not been addressed in one way or another? I don't get it at all, a vital part of your team is neglected, or not improved on an annual basis. What gives? It's like they want Cutler to despise them and leave the first chance he gets.

tjsunstein
10-11-2011, 03:05 PM
By your definition, every starting QB is a franchise QB.
They're all saddled with responsibility to win the game.
Since you took out consistency, that still leaves every starter.
You said the Flacco isn't one of the truly elite one yet. That's the thing, to be a franchise QB, you have kind of have to be elite at something. Flacco isn't elite in anything.
Any QB can lead to an offense to dominance on any given sunday. This is where consistency comes into play again. We just saw Alex Smith lead his team over the Bucs in dominating fashion. Is he qualified?

And you can't just say that those guys would struggle in that situation. It's not even a possibility. Because you literally have no idea and created scenarios to help your case. Scenarios that will never be proven right or wrong.

I'll even give you that Jay Cutler is 'special' but not a franchise QB.

Bob Sanders Dreadlock
10-11-2011, 03:38 PM
I actually was having an argument earlier tonight about this. This guy in my dorm acts like he is the end all knowledge on football because he played for a year in college. It doesn't mean anything that I have been watching it my entire life and played in high school.

I was saying if you put Jay Cutler on a team where he can have time to throw and have some decent targets then he would thrive. I'm a homer when it comes to him because Vandy is my underdog team I cheer for. I have liked him since he has been at Vandy.

Anyway, this guy on my floor was arguing that he isn't a top ten qb. It is kinda close, but lets be real. Give him a target and a line and he will do very well.

For some reason I am fond of Tony Romo, Matthew Stafford, and Jay Cutler. I think they are all fantastic qb's that have had trouble.

Romo - the struggles at ending games
Stafford - Injuries
Cutler - not ideal situations
I want these guys to succeed.

Put Cutler on the colts how good is he?

RCAChainGang
10-11-2011, 04:03 PM
Put Cutler on the colts how good is he?

I don't think he wins a ton of games because our defense is a mess, but I think he would benefit from Reggie Wayne being there. I think he would have a solid 62% completion percentage and close to 4,000 yards. He would still suffer from our offensive line, but I think he would do better at QB because he would get into a better rhythm. I haven't seen a lot of Chicago this season, but aren't they primarily run? I think having more attempts would help him stay fresh in the passing game. He could make the Colts 4-12/5-11

Good question and honestly I'm not very confident in my answer. What do you think?

Monomach
10-11-2011, 05:00 PM
The Bears offensive line has been terrible for years, how has this not been addressed in one way or another? I don't get it at all, a vital part of your team is neglected, or not improved on an annual basis. What gives? It's like they want Cutler to despise them and leave the first chance he gets.
Answer:
http://www.bearsbacker.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/Jerry-Angelo.jpg
This ass and his ****-eating grin think the best way to build an O-line is to draft them in the seventh round and sign guys other teams give up on. He got some miles out of Ruben Brown and Fred Miller once, so he thinks he's the smartest guy in the room.

Babylon
10-12-2011, 01:22 PM
Put Cutler on the colts how good is he?

8-8. There is enough talent there to be a .500 team with Jay Cutler. (or Andrew Luck)

sweetness34
10-12-2011, 04:45 PM
Cutler could be a franchise QB if he had an offensive line, but right now he doesn't and all he's done is show flashes of potential. Franchise QBs are more than a couple of good passes in a bad situation.

What franchise QB's out there are in a bad situation?

I agree with you that you can't judge situations that aren't there, but Jay isn't in a position to succeed. A QB needs a line, a good system and/or receivers. His OL is abysmal, his OC is stubborn/insane and his best receivers are Bennett (who is hurt) and Sanzenbacher (an undrafted rookie WR).

Jay will always compound mistakes with bad decisions because he's a high risk/high reward QB, but surround him with talent/coaching and I believe he'd be a top tier QB.

Monday Night may have been one of the most pathetic offensive line displays I've ever seen (even worse than the Giants game last year) and he somehow managed to not only walk out of there without injury, but he also put up a respectable stat line.

I understand that Jay has his faults as a QB and they may haunt him his entire career, but we have not given him any help nor have we developed his skills. The organization is to blame for the two+ disappointing years he's been as our QB.

FUNBUNCHER
10-12-2011, 05:50 PM
By your definition, every starting QB is a franchise QB.
They're all saddled with responsibility to win the game.
Since you took out consistency, that still leaves every starter.
You said the Flacco isn't one of the truly elite one yet. That's the thing, to be a franchise QB, you have kind of have to be elite at something. Flacco isn't elite in anything.
Any QB can lead to an offense to dominance on any given sunday. This is where consistency comes into play again. We just saw Alex Smith lead his team over the Bucs in dominating fashion. Is he qualified?

And you can't just say that those guys would struggle in that situation. It's not even a possibility. Because you literally have no idea and created scenarios to help your case. Scenarios that will never be proven right or wrong.

I'll even give you that Jay Cutler is 'special' but not a franchise QB.

To a degree this is all subjective and we're arguing semantics, but IMO franchise QBs have the expectation to 'win it all', not just put up some nice stats in the regular season.

Teams with true franchise QBs aren't looking to replace their starter with an upgrade, because their team FOs believe there are only a handful of guys better than what they already have.

If the Chargers/Pats/Bucs/Saints/Texans/Packers/Giants/Steelers/Panthers/Falcons/Ravens/Rams/Jaguars/Bears/Lions have the 1/1 pick in the 2012 draft, assuming the QBs of the aforementioned teams have their 'average' seasons, I think it's safe bet none of these teams would touch Luck, even though he's supposed to be the 2nd Coming in football pads.

Dallas might take Luck in this scenario because Romo struggles to get the Cowboys into the playoffs, despite statistically being a pro bowl QB almost every season.

I'm not sure yet about Ryan Fitzpatrick. I don't think the Bills FO looks at him as a guy who's not easily replaced although I think he's going to have one of best statistical seasons in the NFL this year.

I still consider Vick a franchise QB, but could see the Eagles taking Luck in part because Vick hasn't paid off for Philadelphia yet and he has no equity in their organization especially if Andy Reid is gone at the end of the season.

The 15 teams I listed either have a proven, vet franchise QB, a talented, physically gifted QB who's starting to approach his prime, or a young QB who appears to have special ability and untapped upside.

Some of these guys haven't done squat in the NFL yet, but their organizations as of right now consider them to be the saviors of their franchises and are expected to stabilize their team's QB position for at least a decade. They all are regarded as players capable of leading their teams to the promised land.


Being a 'franchise' QB isn't the same as being one of the top 5-6 QBs in the NFL. Not every franchise QB is a future HOFer.

tjsunstein
10-12-2011, 06:12 PM
Franchise QBs and serviceable QBs are different species.

FUNBUNCHER
10-12-2011, 07:03 PM
Rex Grossman, bless his heart, is a serviceable QB.

BuddyCHRIST
10-12-2011, 08:02 PM
Cutler COULD BE a franchise QB in the right situation, I don't know if he's been ruined too much in Chicago. But he is definitely in a horrible situation, they have the worst O-line in the league and probably the worst WR corps (or atleast up there), with a dumbass of an OC. At the same time I don't think he's a leader and his body language and attitude leaves alot to be desired. But as far as just throwing the ball is concerned he gives you a chance to win most games.

tjsunstein
10-12-2011, 08:33 PM
Who was the last franchise QB you saw in a situation like Cutler's?

Ness
10-13-2011, 03:02 AM
Who was the last franchise QB you saw in a situation like Cutler's?

Established franchise quarterback? Or someone that has the potential to be one?

tjsunstein
10-13-2011, 07:15 AM
Established franchise quarterback? Or someone that has the potential to be one?
Established franchise quarterback.

jrdrylie
10-13-2011, 09:18 AM
Established franchise quarterback.

By situation do you mean a franchise QB with absolutely no talent around him and who takes more crap than almost any player in the league? Never that I can remember.