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Breed
10-21-2011, 03:38 PM
I'm going with this guy...

http://www.buccaneersgab.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/josh-freeman.jpg

Josh Freeman

How about you?

JBCX
10-21-2011, 03:47 PM
Probably Ndamakong Suh or Clay Matthews.

Every talking head on ESPN makes these guys out to be the equivalent of football Jesus.

Suh is a solid, but not dominant, DT who plays in a scheme that makes him look like a much better pass rusher than he really is. He might be a top ten DT, but he's definitely not one of the five best. If you watch Lions games at all, his own teammate Corey Williams often outperforms him.

Matthews had a three or four games stretch in the beginning of 2010 in which he looked like the best defensive player in the NFL. But after that, he tailed off in a big way and looked only slightly above average the rest of the way. This year, he has a few pressures and only a couple of sacks. I think this is a player who is living on the reputation of that four game stretch in 2010 and his long blonde hair.

VernonLawson89
10-21-2011, 03:48 PM
Carson Palmer

Pat Sims 90
10-21-2011, 03:49 PM
http://ravensredzone.com/files/2010/05/Joe-Flacco-001.jpg

ViperVisor
10-21-2011, 04:14 PM
Sam Bradford was crowned before he even became an average QB.

Typical of people wanting tomorrows story right now.

cvv84
10-21-2011, 04:59 PM
Matthews had a three or four games stretch in the beginning of 2010 in which he looked like the best defensive player in the NFL. But after that, he tailed off in a big way and looked only slightly above average the rest of the way. This year, he has a few pressures and only a couple of sacks. I think this is a player who is living on the reputation of that four game stretch in 2010 and his long blonde hair.


Yup just another case of someone who only looks at the stat sheet...

http://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2011/10/21/clay-matthews-improving-on-2010/

Rosebud
10-21-2011, 05:14 PM
Sam Bradford was crowned before he even became an average QB.

Typical of people wanting tomorrows story right now.

Now that's silly. He is already an average starting QB which is a well above average NFL QB. Sam Bradford may not be elite or even close yet, but it's just his second season. He's fine right now and still has plenty of time to build his way up to elite.

tjsunstein
10-21-2011, 05:16 PM
QB: Joe Flacco, Ravens
RB: DeAneglo Williams, Panthers
WR: Dasean Jackson, Eagles
WR: Braylon Edwards, 49ers
DE: Ray Edwards, Falcons
CB: DeAngelo Hall, Redskins
S: Brandon Merriweather, Bears

wicket
10-21-2011, 05:19 PM
QB: Joe Flacco, Ravens
RB: DeAneglo Williams, Panthers
WR: Dasean Jackson, Eagles
WR: Braylon Edwards, 49ers
DE: Ray Edwards, Falcons
CB: DeAngelo Hall, Redskins
S: Brandon Merriweather, Bears


i think you went 5/7 for my liking with the top two being wrong (imo)

Raiderz4Life
10-21-2011, 05:20 PM
Idk if Merriweather is overrated now.

ViperVisor
10-21-2011, 05:24 PM
Now that's silly. He is already an average starting QB which is a well above average NFL QB. Sam Bradford may not be elite or even close yet, but it's just his second season. He's fine right now and still has plenty of time to build his way up to elite.

He was 30th in Yds/Att
25th in QB Rating

He cracked the top 100 in a couple lists.

TACKLE
10-21-2011, 05:27 PM
Ryan, Matt

RaiderNation
10-21-2011, 05:39 PM
Michael Vick, Mark Sanchez and Tony Romo are the first to come to mind. All are thought to be franchise type QBs by the media, when in actuality they all have been major disappointments this year.

Vick shouldn't get all the blame for the Eagles struggles, but he isn't playing at the MVP level he was last season. Defenses look like they have figured out how to contain him and cover Desean Jackson down field as well.

Sanchez is mostly overrated by the New York media/ ESPN as a QB that can win a superbowl. The last few years the Jets has actually carried Sanchez especially on defense, but this year they have struggled. The offense looks bad and the defense isn't playing at the elite level they had been the previous 2 years.

Romo is similar to the other 2 QBs, being over-hyped by the media as a franchise QB. Romo cant carry his team on his back, and he crumbles under pressure. Dallas needs to add more talent around him for them to be a real contender in the NFL.

BradysKnee
10-21-2011, 05:44 PM
(Anti-Jets pick(and probably best))
Mark Sanchez

Other
Matt Ryan

FUNBUNCHER
10-21-2011, 05:46 PM
Who are the four interior Dlineman better than Suh??

I'll give you Ngata, better recognition and maybe the strongest Dlineman in the game.

Suh may be overhyped, but he's not overrated IMO.
If Gunther Cunningham ever got a clue and moved Suh more up and down the Dline, he would be freakish.

How does playing in a 4-3 inflate Suh's production?? The same scheme hasn't done jack for Gerald McCoy.

Suh is legit IMO and the one defensive player on the Lions opposing teams scheme around to beat.

sbh15
10-21-2011, 05:51 PM
(Anti-Jets pick(and probably best))
Mark Sanchez

i tend to agree with this. if he was putting his numbers up on a .500 or worse team (yes i know the jets are 3-3, but recently they've been a 10 win team), there would be lots of people agreeing with this

JBCX
10-21-2011, 05:55 PM
Suh plays in the "Wide 9" scheme in which the defensive linemen are given free reign to rush the passer on nearly every snap. Playing the run is secondary to rushing the passer, which gives them the opportunity to rack up gaudy sack numbers that more complete defensive linemen do not obtain.

For example, in a traditional 4-3, the DTs and DEs have to play the run before they rush the passer, and thus are slower to penetrate the line. Suh and his teammates can completely ignore the running game and penetrate upfield with little regard for the offensive linemen who may be rushing past them to block linebackers on run plays. A traditional 4-3 DT, however, will better protect his linebackers from offensive linemen bearing down on them, but at the expense of the ability to get a "head start" at rushing the passer.

Suh benefits from this scheme because he has far more opportunities to just rush the passer than almost any other 4-3 DT. For Suh, 9 sacks is the equivalent of maybe 4 sacks for a DT in a traditional scheme.

tjsunstein
10-21-2011, 05:56 PM
i think you went 5/7 for my liking with the top two being wrong (imo)
Flacco and DeAngelo Williams?

I'll agree that Merriweather isn't overrated now, but to the casual fan I think he still is.

TitanHope
10-21-2011, 06:09 PM
Matt Ryan for me too. :/

FUNBUNCHER
10-21-2011, 06:36 PM
Suh plays in the "Wide 9" scheme in which the defensive linemen are given free reign to rush the passer on nearly every snap. Playing the run is secondary to rushing the passer, which gives them the opportunity to rack up gaudy sack numbers that more complete defensive linemen do not obtain.

For example, in a traditional 4-3, the DTs and DEs have to play the run before they rush the passer, and thus are slower to penetrate the line. Suh and his teammates can completely ignore the running game and penetrate upfield with little regard for the offensive linemen who may be rushing past them to block linebackers on run plays. A traditional 4-3 DT, however, will better protect his linebackers from offensive linemen bearing down on them, but at the expense of the ability to get a "head start" at rushing the passer.

Suh benefits from this scheme because he has far more opportunities to just rush the passer than almost any other 4-3 DT. For Suh, 9 sacks is the equivalent of maybe 4 sacks for a DT in a traditional scheme.

Wide 9 has more to do with where the DEs line up, not the DTs. Suh still lines up inside/outside of the guard. Yeah Cunningham wants the DTs attacking upfield on most plays, but that's not anything new really to a 4-3.
Suh isn't given run first responsibilities in Detroit but he's not coached to simply ignore the run.

It's a little disingenuous to suggest Suh is the product of the Lions defensive scheme.
There's nothing gimmicky about playing inside and rushing the passer. Most DTs simply can't consistently beat double teams and still penetrate the backfield. That's talent, pure and simple.

And what's a traditional scheme?? You mean a 3-4?? Suh would have 70+ tackles in a 3-4 and still approach the same sack numbers.

A gimmick, system DT....in the NFL.
First time I've heard that one before.

DoughBoy
10-21-2011, 06:45 PM
Suh plays in the "Wide 9" scheme in which the defensive linemen are given free reign to rush the passer on nearly every snap. Playing the run is secondary to rushing the passer, which gives them the opportunity to rack up gaudy sack numbers that more complete defensive linemen do not obtain.

For example, in a traditional 4-3, the DTs and DEs have to play the run before they rush the passer, and thus are slower to penetrate the line. Suh and his teammates can completely ignore the running game and penetrate upfield with little regard for the offensive linemen who may be rushing past them to block linebackers on run plays. A traditional 4-3 DT, however, will better protect his linebackers from offensive linemen bearing down on them, but at the expense of the ability to get a "head start" at rushing the passer.

Suh benefits from this scheme because he has far more opportunities to just rush the passer than almost any other 4-3 DT. For Suh, 9 sacks is the equivalent of maybe 4 sacks for a DT in a traditional scheme.

I'm not going to going to take your troll bait here, but nothing you said in this post helps your argument at all.

JBCX
10-21-2011, 06:45 PM
Wide 9 has more to do with where the DEs line up, not the DTs. Suh still lines up inside/outside of the guard. Yeah Cunningham wants the DTs attacking upfield on most plays, but that's not anything new really to a 4-3.
Suh isn't given run first responsibilities in Detroit but he's not coached to simply ignore the run.

It's a little disingenuous to suggest Suh is the product of the Lions defensive scheme.
There's nothing gimmicky about playing inside and rushing the passer. Most DTs simply can't consistently beat double teams and still penetrate the backfield. That's talent, pure and simple.

And what's a traditional scheme?? You mean a 3-4?? Suh would have 70+ tackles in a 3-4 and still approach the same sack numbers.

A gimmick, system DT....in the NFL.
First time I've heard that one before.

Maybe you should learn some more about the scheme your favorite team runs? The Wide-9 involves the DTs rushing upfield on every snap, and only playing the run "on the way" to the passer. This opens up big avenues for the offensive linemen to lock onto linebackers, but also gives the DTs the ability to generate more pressure on the passer.

In a traditional 4-3 scheme, the DTs are charged with more gap integrity - that is, they are expected to keep gaps closed and prevent those wide avenues from forming in the running game. This makes the running game less effective against the defense, but it also prevents the DTs from having the many opportunities to generate pass rush pressure that other Wide-9 DTs such as Suh have.

Look, Suh's a good player, but he's not a dominant DT. People talk about him as if he's some kind of godly force. If every DT in the NFL was given the opportunity to play in a Wide-9 scheme, several of them would rack up 8 or more sacks with ease as well. Suh is a good, solid DT who is taking advantage of his defensive scheme to look like an amazing pass rusher. That's why I think he's "overrated" - not because he sucks, because he doesn't suck, but because he's not nearly as amazing as people make him out to be.

Rosebud
10-21-2011, 06:57 PM
You do realize that Trent Cole does exactly what you're describing right, only from DE?

FUNBUNCHER
10-21-2011, 07:07 PM
You're turning 4-3 schemes into read-and-react like they were using exclusively 3-4 concepts.
Not every 4-3 D is predicated on a DT reading run/pass before penetrating upfield.
Most 43 defenses allow a DT to read run/pass as he's penetrating, instead of holding his position at the LOS to keep blockers off his LBers.

Wide 9 has everything to do with where the DEs are lining up, in wide '9 tech', and isn't some radical conceptual change for the interior lineman.

Basically what you're saying is that if EVERY DT was allowed to the rush the passer on every play, they'd have 9+ sacks, as if every DT has the ability to rush the passer.

Suh isn't the product of some fancy new defensive scheme.
Suh is better than good. and I'm still waiting to see a list of those three other DTs other than Ngata better than him.

Caddy
10-21-2011, 07:10 PM
Who are the four interior Dlineman better than Suh??

I'll give you Ngata, better recognition and maybe the strongest Dlineman in the game.

Suh may be overhyped, but he's not overrated IMO.
If Gunther Cunningham ever got a clue and moved Suh more up and down the Dline, he would be freakish.

How does playing in a 4-3 inflate Suh's production?? The same scheme hasn't done jack for Gerald McCoy.

Suh is legit IMO and the one defensive player on the Lions opposing teams scheme around to beat.

Obviously haven't watched McCoy play because he has been awesome this season.

JBCX
10-21-2011, 07:12 PM
You do realize that Trent Cole does exactly what you're describing right, only from DE?

This year the Eagles play the Wide-9, yes, but in previous years they played a more traditional read-and-react 4-3, and Cole was successful in that system as well.

Rosebud
10-21-2011, 07:22 PM
This year the Eagles play the Wide-9, yes, but in previous years they played a more traditional read-and-react 4-3, and Cole was successful in that system as well.

The eagles have always had a very aggressive DL, it's why they've sucked against the run for like a decade.

JBCX
10-21-2011, 07:23 PM
You're turning 4-3 schemes into read-and-react like they were using exclusively 3-4 concepts.
Not every 4-3 D is predicated on a DT reading run/pass before penetrating upfield.
Most 43 defenses allow a DT to read run/pass as he's penetrating, instead of holding his position at the LOS to keep blockers off his LBers.


Not most, only the Wide-9 schemes currently run by the Lions and the Eagles. Most traditional 4-3 schemes in the NFL are predicated on stopping the run before rushing the passer: the Giants, Browns, Bears, Rams, Jags, Falcons, Bengals, Seahawks, Broncos, Vikings all run 4-3 defenses with the defensive linemen given gap responsibilities they must respect (while reading their run-pass keys) BEFORE rushing the passer. The Eagles and the Lions just tell their DTs and DEs to ignore the run-pass keys, rush up field , and try to disrupt plays, while letting the LBers clean up the mess in the running game.


Wide 9 has everything to do with where the DEs are lining up, in wide '9 tech', and isn't some radical conceptual change for the interior lineman.


One facet of the Wide 9 scheme is a philosophical change for every defensive linemen, including hte DTs: they are given the green light to rush the passer on every down and only pay attention to the running game "on the way to the passer". They sacrifice stops in the running game to sellout for the pass rush. That's why Wide-9 defenses often have a high rushing-yards-per-carry given up. The Lions are 2nd worst in the NFL right now in rushing yards per carry given up at 5.2 ypc. The Eagles are 7th worst at 4.8 ypc.



Basically what you're saying is that if EVERY DT was allowed to the rush the passer on every play, they'd have 9+ sacks, as if every DT has the ability to rush the passer.


Not EVERY DT, obviously. Did I say "EVERY DT"? I said that if every 4-3 DT was allowed to rush the passer like Suh, he'd have some company in the 8+ sack department. A handful of guys could take advantage of Suh's situation to put up big sack numbers if they could ignore the run. Not all of them, but a handful.


Suh isn't the product of some fancy new defensive scheme.
Suh is better than good. and I'm still waiting to see a list of those three other DTs other than Ngata better than him.

I know the homer in you wants to think that Suh is the second coming of Mean Joe Greene or Reggie White, but from what I've seen watching Lions games, he's a solid DT that is often outplayed by DTs on his own team (Corey Williams for example) who takes advantage of a very favorable situation to put up gaudy sack numbers while mostly being below average as a run-stopper (because of his lack of run-stopping responsibility), which makes him somewhat of a one-dimensional player. Still good, but not *great*.

Rosebud
10-21-2011, 07:25 PM
You not that Funbuncher's a redskins fan, right?

JBCX
10-21-2011, 07:27 PM
The eagles have always had a very aggressive DL, it's why they've sucked against the run for like a decade.

Wrong. They played a 2-gap defensive line scheme from 2007-2010, and were quite good against the run in those years. You are confusing "aggressive blitz packages" with "aggressive defensive line". Under Jim Johnson from 2007-2010, they placed an emphasis on stopping the run with the defensive line, and then applying pressure with cornerback/linebacker/safety blitzes.

Eagles defense - rushing yards per attempt given up, 2007-2010:

2010: 4.2 ypa, 14th best
2009: 4.1 ypa, 13th best
2008: 3.5 ypa, 4th best
2007: 3.8 ypa, 7th best

In 2011 they switched to the Wide-9 scheme and with it, the one-gap penetrating scheme. Consequently, they are now giving up 4.8 ypa.

ATLDirtyBirds
10-21-2011, 07:44 PM
Josh Freeman would be my choice, but only because people were hyping him up as an MVP type of performer for this season. He's obviously regressed a bit (thus far) but he's still a good QB, just not what some people hyped him up to be.

Breed
10-21-2011, 07:45 PM
Josh Freeman would be my choice, but only because people were hyping him up as an MVP type of performer for this season. He's obviously regressed a bit (thus far) but he's still a good QB, just not what some people hyped him up to be.

That is why i picked him also. Hr's not a bad QB, but he's not what the media makes him out to be.

Splat
10-21-2011, 07:48 PM
That is why i picked him also. He's not a bad QB, but he's not what the media makes him out to be.

It's not the media it's TB fans.

BigBanger
10-21-2011, 08:01 PM
(Anti-Jets pick(and probably best))
Mark Sanchez

http://ravensredzone.com/files/2010/05/Joe-Flacco-001.jpg

Sam Bradford was crowned before he even became an average QB.

Typical of people wanting tomorrows story right now.
Quoted for truth.

I will also add Osi Umenyiora. I've always disliked him since he's so overrated. He's been an average player and the third best DE on his own team for, pretty much, his entire career.

How about Chris Johnson? I might get flamed for this, but I've always given a touch more credit to his offensive linemen and their scheme for his success. Now that his line has dramatically dropped off he's no longer in the top 30 in rushing and has only 1 TD. He's also coming off a rather pedestrian season by his standards as well where he simply didn't look like the same player that garnered his nickname. I've never thought he was anywhere near Adrian Peterson's league and over the last year, he's cemented my feelings. He needs to do something for me to even consider him a top 5 RB anymore. And I've heard him rap.



As for Suh ... only one other defensive tackle in the game garners as much attention as he does and thats the best defensive linemen in the game right now ... Ngata. Suh is constantly double and triple teamed. The only reason why anyone knows who Corey Williams is because of Suh. Suh is a monster and does not belong in this thread. Neither does Clay Matthews. Those are some REALLY good players.

JBCX
10-21-2011, 08:02 PM
As for Suh ... only one other defensive tackle garners as much attention as he does and thats the best defensive linemen in the game right now ... Ngata. Suh is constantly double and triple teamed. The only reason why anyone knows who Corey Williams is because of Suh. Suh is a monster and does not belong in this thread.

Do you actually watch Lions games? I've watched all of the Lions game of the 2011 season thus far and have focused in on Suh while watching them. Suh is rarely double-teamed or triple-teamed. He sees quite a bit of single-blocking.

Rosebud
10-21-2011, 08:16 PM
Quoted for truth.

I will also add Osi Umenyiora. I've always disliked him since he's so overrated. He's been an average player and the third best DE on his own team for, pretty much, his entire career.

How about Chris Johnson? I might get flamed for this, but I've always given a touch more credit to his offensive linemen and their scheme for his success. Now that his line has dramatically dropped off he's no longer in the top 30 in rushing and has only 1 TD. He's also coming off a rather pedestrian season by his standards as well where he simply didn't look like the same player that garnered his nickname. I've never thought he was anywhere near Adrian Peterson's league and over the last year, he's cemented my feelings. He needs to do something for me to even consider him a top 5 RB anymore. And I've heard him rap.



As for Suh ... only one other defensive tackle in the game garners as much attention as he does and thats the best defensive linemen in the game right now ... Ngata. Suh is constantly double and triple teamed. The only reason why anyone knows who Corey Williams is because of Suh. Suh is a monster and does not belong in this thread. Neither does Clay Matthews. Those are some REALLY good players.

Osi hasn't been a great run stuffer in years, but he is still one of the best pure pass rushers in the league and his strip-sack is a thing of beauty. Plus he doesn't get talked up that much, he's called an elite pass rusher, which he is. Now Tuck is a better all around DE but Osi is the better pass rusher and Tuck's generally recognized as better.

J-Mike88
10-21-2011, 08:54 PM
How about these guys, who were in a lot of people's top-100-players in the NFL:

Dwight Freeney
Reggie Wayne
Dallas Clark
Robert Mathis

And for coach, Jim Caldwell is the most overrated coach in any pro sport.

For this team to go from perennial Super Bowl contender, to MOST PATHETIC IN THE LEAGUE, just missing one player? That means either that player was God-like, or all these other guys were overrated. This team is a joke. They've lost to everyone, good and bad. Bad teams have beaten them.

I hate the Patriots, but when they lost Brady, they had a guy behind him who came in and led them to a 11-4 record with him starting. And this QB hadn't started since HIGH SCHOOL.

These losers are going to pull a San Antonio and end up getting Andrew Luck.

ATLDirtyBirds
10-21-2011, 09:00 PM
It's not the media it's TB fans.

They are the worst offender, but some media definitely hopped on the bandwagon.


All the "young" QBs (Sanchez, Flacco, Freeman, Ryan, Bradford) could probably fit this thread because everyone expected improvement and it really didn't happen.

DoughBoy
10-21-2011, 09:16 PM
Quoted for truth.

I will also add Osi Umenyiora. I've always disliked him since he's so overrated. He's been an average player and the third best DE on his own team for, pretty much, his entire career.

How about Chris Johnson? I might get flamed for this, but I've always given a touch more credit to his offensive linemen and their scheme for his success. Now that his line has dramatically dropped off he's no longer in the top 30 in rushing and has only 1 TD. He's also coming off a rather pedestrian season by his standards as well where he simply didn't look like the same player that garnered his nickname. I've never thought he was anywhere near Adrian Peterson's league and over the last year, he's cemented my feelings. He needs to do something for me to even consider him a top 5 RB anymore. And I've heard him rap.


As for Suh ... only one other defensive tackle in the game garners as much attention as he does and thats the best defensive linemen in the game right now ... Ngata. Suh is constantly double and triple teamed. The only reason why anyone knows who Corey Williams is because of Suh. Suh is a monster and does not belong in this thread. Neither does Clay Matthews. Those are some REALLY good players.

I can't really argue with you about him sucking this year, but to think he was never in in AP's league is absolutely short minded. Quite frankly the Titans offensive line is among the most overrated unit in football and has been absolutely god awful at run blocking since Kevin Mawae left. Chris did well enough last year (every yard he got was him making something out of nothing) and the line was just as incompetent then as it is now. I know I may be flamed for this, but the titans are as bad at run blocking as the bears are against pass blocking....seriously, watch them, Eugene amano is getting blown-up on every single play, Jake Scott is always on the ground and Leroy Harris can't handle linebackers or operate in space to save his life. It is the worst interior run blocking unit in the NFL and anyone that says otherwise is just wrong... but hey they can protect the QB!

BradysKnee
10-21-2011, 09:20 PM
They are the worst offender, but some media definitely hopped on the bandwagon.


All the "young" QBs (Sanchez, Flacco, Freeman, Ryan, Bradford) could probably fit this thread because everyone expected improvement and it really didn't happen.

All the young QBs could fit like you said, but in my opinion Sanchez takes the cake for the following:

Debatably the best (or 2nd best) talent around him.
As much as jet fans don't like Schotty, I think he's the only reason he isnt throwing 3 picks a game. He gives him very safe throws (slants slants slants lol) and other gimme passes.
His big throws are almost always on double moves that the WR gives you, I've yet to see him run simple routes and hit the best one based on the coverage consistently.
I truly doubt his ability to read and identify defenses.
Sanchez has a great arm, but his mental aptitude in identifying and reacting to defense as well as the handholding this team has/is doing with him gives me serious doubt he'll ever be a top tier QB (or anything more than average).

FUNBUNCHER
10-21-2011, 09:31 PM
Do you actually watch Lions games? I've watched all of the Lions game of the 2011 season thus far and have focused in on Suh while watching them. Suh is rarely double-teamed or triple-teamed. He sees quite a bit of single-blocking.

This is an exaggeration. The 49ers double teamed and trapped blocked Suh all game long.

No team in the NFL single blocks Suh as a matter of strategy.
But you go with the opinion that Suh is a media fabrication and just a 'solid' DT.

There are Lions fans who are pissed at Suh for not dominating the game this season through double teams, expecting him to play like a mutant in every single game.

Simply because of the fact you're so severely underrating Suh by calling him 'overrated' leads me to believe you haven't watched every Detroit game this season.

vidae
10-21-2011, 09:48 PM
Chris Johnson is having a bad year so far, but the dude ran for 2,000 yards two years ago and had a very solid to good year last year. The Titans are awful up front and his holdout / missing TC didn't help matters.

Chris Johnson is still an elite runningback.

Complex
10-21-2011, 10:04 PM
I can't really argue with you about him sucking this year, but to think he was never in in AP's league is absolutely short minded. Quite frankly the Titans offensive line is among the most overrated unit in football and has been absolutely god awful at run blocking since Kevin Mawae left. Chris did well enough last year (every yard he got was him making something out of nothing) and the line was just as incompetent then as it is now. I know I may be flamed for this, but the titans are as bad at run blocking as the bears are against pass blocking....seriously, watch them, Eugene amano is getting blown-up on every single play, Jake Scott is always on the ground and Leroy Harris can't handle linebackers or operate in space to save his life. It is the worst interior run blocking unit in the NFL and anyone that says otherwise is just wrong... but hey they can protect the QB!

Agree, Chris Johnson has been great every year besides this year. Even when Jeff Fisher tried to use him as a power back. I think the reason people think the titans O-line is good is because we have one of the best pass-blocking lines in the NFL. I'm surprise it took this long and I'm even more surprise that it wasn't bucsfan that said it.

Complex
10-21-2011, 10:06 PM
Overrated

Joe Flacco
Andre Johnson
Reggie Wayne
Osi

I mentioned 2 Canes =/

soybean
10-21-2011, 10:17 PM
All the young QBs could fit like you said, but in my opinion Sanchez takes the cake for the following:

Debatably the best (or 2nd best) talent around him.
As much as jet fans don't like Schotty, I think he's the only reason he isnt throwing 3 picks a game. He gives him very safe throws (slants slants slants lol) and other gimme passes.
His big throws are almost always on double moves that the WR gives you, I've yet to see him run simple routes and hit the best one based on the coverage consistently.
I truly doubt his ability to read and identify defenses.
Sanchez has a great arm, but his mental aptitude in identifying and reacting to defense as well as the handholding this team has/is doing with him gives me serious doubt he'll ever be a top tier QB (or anything more than average).

The thing is, this thread is about the moist overrated players. Hardly anyone considers sanchez a great qb, except rex ryan. The media doesn't particulary favor him either. Its just the gq magazine spreads and other superficial mediums that give him a bunch of work but tons of espn reporters, analysts and radioheads are very down on him.

holt_bruce81
10-21-2011, 10:22 PM
The correct answer is Mark Sanchez.

BradysKnee
10-21-2011, 10:26 PM
The thing is, this thread is about the moist overrated players. Hardly anyone considers sanchez a great qb, except rex ryan. The media doesn't particulary favor him either. Its just the gq magazine spreads and other superficial mediums that give him a bunch of work but tons of espn reporters, analysts and radioheads are very down on him.

I'd disagree to a point with that, up until very recently, Mark Sanchez was the **** in the media. Even now I've seen stories like "The OLine is holding Sanchez back" etc.

Although it is getting clearer lol.

V.I.P
10-21-2011, 10:27 PM
Overrated


Andre Johnson


Andre Johnson is overrated? ....Seriously?

tjsunstein
10-21-2011, 10:32 PM
Andre Johnson is a lot of things, and overrated isn't one of them.

BigBanger
10-21-2011, 10:50 PM
I can't really argue with you about him sucking this year, but to think he was never in in AP's league is absolutely short minded. Quite frankly the Titans offensive line is among the most overrated unit in football and has been absolutely god awful at run blocking since Kevin Mawae left. Chris did well enough last year (every yard he got was him making something out of nothing) and the line was just as incompetent then as it is now. I know I may be flamed for this, but the titans are as bad at run blocking as the bears are against pass blocking....seriously, watch them, Eugene amano is getting blown-up on every single play, Jake Scott is always on the ground and Leroy Harris can't handle linebackers or operate in space to save his life. It is the worst interior run blocking unit in the NFL and anyone that says otherwise is just wrong... but hey they can protect the QB!
Specifically the year he set the record for most yards from scrimmage. I've never been a Chris Johnson fan. Never. 2,000 yards or not. Even when he did set a record for RBs I still thought Peterson was the better RB. Since AD stepped foot in the NFL, he's been the best RB in the NFL in my eyes and I've never thought anyone else was even close. I've always considered it AD ... and then everyone else.

That Steelers game was shockingly bad. CJ didn't even look like he was trying. His first run of the game went for 21 yards and he showed no explosiveness at all. I thought it was going for 50+. It was all due to the blocking, which was the only time in the game that it was any good. Then he had 13 carriers for 30 yards and it looked like he quit on just about every run. I watch him now and he looks like a guy that did everything for the pay day. Now he seems content. Maybe he turns it around, maybe he doesn't, but he isn't an elite RB in the NFL anymore. If people think he is, then he's overrated.

Diehard
10-22-2011, 12:01 AM
Sanchez > All

themaninblack
10-22-2011, 12:07 AM
Suh is legit IMO and the one defensive player on the Lions opposing teams scheme around to beat.

This.

Suh is actually as good as the media portrays him to be which is not very common any more. Corey Williams is only relevant because of Suh IMO.

BTW, with all of this Wide-9 Tech that everyone is talking about, ESPN has exactly no idea what that actually even means. Merrill Hoge was describing a DE in the league lining up outside the OT as a Wide-9 which is absolutely false.

tjsunstein
10-22-2011, 12:11 AM
This.

Suh is actually as good as the media portrays him to be which is not very common any more. Corey Williams is only relevant because of Suh IMO.
Corey Williams has been good since his days in Green Bay where we swapped him for a 2nd rounder (drafted Brian Brohm). He got the franchise tag in Cleveland, too, meaning his was worth something. I believe he's been playing pretty well in Detroit since joining them.

themaninblack
10-22-2011, 12:17 AM
Maybe I overstated things a bit but he is definitely playing as well as he is because teams are more focused on Suh. Not to say he's not a solid player in his own right, but Suh is something special.

Breed
10-22-2011, 12:37 AM
Corey Williams was beastly at times in the Green Bay for 4-3 defense. But not not beastly in Cleveland's 3-4. He's right where he needs to be in Detroit causing havoc up the middle.

niel89
10-22-2011, 12:57 AM
Wait, are their people out there that are saying that Flacco is awesome or something? I think Flacco is good enough to win, but I didn't think anyone thought highly enough about him for him to qualify as overrated.

Ngatachance92
10-22-2011, 01:04 AM
Wait, are their people out there that are saying that Flacco is awesome or something? I think Flacco is good enough to win, but I didn't think anyone thought highly enough about him for him to qualify as overrated.

Yeah, from what I've seen the national media has soured on him as of late. He's still recognized as a good QB because he is, not as overrated as years past.

bucfan12
10-22-2011, 01:14 AM
ARIZ QB Kevin Kolb: When you're traded for a 2nd round and young Starting CB and given 30 million guranteed with Fitzgerald as your WR, and you flop, you're overrated.

PHI QB Mike Vick: Gets handed 15 million a year and he's another McNabb. Chokes under pressure and is inaccurate.

PHI WR Desean Jackson: He wants to get paid like a top tier WR, yet he disapears in games. He's a deep threat, but not a true number 1. I think Philly lets him go at the end of the season.

SickwithIt1010
10-22-2011, 01:39 AM
PHI QB Mike Vick: Gets handed 15 million a year and he's another McNabb. Chokes under pressure and is inaccurate.

PHI WR Desean Jackson: He wants to get paid like a top tier WR, yet he disapears in games. He's a deep threat, but not a true number 1. I think Philly lets him go at the end of the season.

Vick is better than McNabb, and is more of a gamer. Getting to watch both of them with the eagles I could tell you that. People keep wanting to put the blame on Vick....put the blame on the dudes NOT blocking for him.

Desean? youre really going to go there? Im sure last year everyone in the world including yourself was prolly thinking to themselves..."why in the hell wont the eagles just pay this guy?" which they should! Sure he might not be as explosive this year but he opens **** up for A LOT of other guys in our offense. When he gets the chance to stick that dagger, he does it.

phlysac
10-22-2011, 06:34 AM
BTW, with all of this Wide-9 Tech that everyone is talking about, ESPN has exactly no idea what that actually even means. Merrill Hoge was describing a DE in the league lining up outside the OT as a Wide-9 which is absolutely false.

Well, they're partially right. The 9-technique is outside the tackles. Wide-9 is wider than that. :)

Rosebud
10-22-2011, 08:34 AM
Well, they're partially right. The 9-technique is outside the tackles. Wide-9 is wider than that. :)

Crazy talk. Wide-9 means that DTs are told to ignore the run and Safeties have to perform an intricate handshake before every snap.

phlysac
10-22-2011, 08:36 AM
Crazy talk. Wide-9 means that DTs are told to ignore the run and Safeties have to perform an intricate handshake before every snap.

True. I neglected to mention the intricate nuances of the scheme. :)

Rosebud
10-22-2011, 08:39 AM
Specifically the year he set the record for most yards from scrimmage. I've never been a Chris Johnson fan. Never. 2,000 yards or not. Even when he did set a record for RBs I still thought Peterson was the better RB. Since AD stepped foot in the NFL, he's been the best RB in the NFL in my eyes and I've never thought anyone else was even close. I've always considered it AD ... and then everyone else.

That Steelers game was shockingly bad. CJ didn't even look like he was trying. His first run of the game went for 21 yards and he showed no explosiveness at all. I thought it was going for 50+. It was all due to the blocking, which was the only time in the game that it was any good. Then he had 13 carriers for 30 yards and it looked like he quit on just about every run. I watch him now and he looks like a guy that did everything for the pay day. Now he seems content. Maybe he turns it around, maybe he doesn't, but he isn't an elite RB in the NFL anymore. If people think he is, then he's overrated.

Well like that's your opinion and all, but it's a tough opinion to maintain when CJ was simply out performing him. AD's a monster and he was certainly on CJ's level, but to think one was vastly ahead of the other was kinda ridiculous the past few years. *shrug* Dude's having a bad season, no doubt, but let's not let that taint what he did accomplish. He might not be an elite RB right now, but he has been every other year of his career and is coming off of a really short offseason.

Rabscuttle
10-22-2011, 10:55 AM
This is an exaggeration. The 49ers double teamed and trapped blocked Suh all game long.No team in the NFL single blocks Suh as a matter of strategy.
But you go with the opinion that Suh is a media fabrication and just a 'solid' DT.

There are Lions fans who are pissed at Suh for not dominating the game this season through double teams, expecting him to play like a mutant in every single game.

Simply because of the fact you're so severely underrating Suh by calling him 'overrated' leads me to believe you haven't watched every Detroit game this season.

On Gore's long runs we basically let him run free like a screen then trapped him with Delanie Walker, a small tightend. I wouldn't even call it much of a block, more like a screen you set in basketball. Suh barely reacted he was so lost.

I don't know what he's been like the rest of the year, but he was confused and was pretty much worthless the Niner game. Snyder went out early so he had much maligned Chilo Rachal to deal with. Still didn't help. I understand not wanting to put him against left guards to take advantage of matchups, but back up right guards shouldn't be taking his lunch money.

Suh didn't appear to prep for the game. He was often standing around not knowing whether to look for a ball carrier or to rush the passer so he did neither, he was just confused. It was pathetic for anybody, let alone a player that is having accolades poured upon him.

The only fight he showed the whole game was after the Gore touchdown run. He had just given up a long run by losing his gap the play before and was still mad so he didn't even try to disengage from Davis and ripped his helmet off after the play. There was nothing more from him for the rest of the day. I know the Niners' line has been playing physical and caused other teams issues, but maybe Suh is only tough when he isn't challenged. I certainly expected more from him.

Maybe this was an anomaly, perhaps his coaching staff didn't prep him, who knows but he sure wasn't some phenom out there that day.

FUNBUNCHER
10-22-2011, 10:58 AM
Running backs are allowed to have bad seasons early in their careers. Most of these guys are playing hurt half the time anyway so who knows what's going on with CJ2K??

I thought Matt Forte was done 2 years ago and found out later he played the entire season with a lower body injury. Now Forte looks like a pro bowler.

I'm not ready to give up on Chris Johnson just yet.

EDIT: You're right about Suh and the 49ers game. He was outplayed and the Lions were outcoached. Other teams will use that game as a blueprint IMO and force Suh to slow down his pass rush. Rushing the passer 100% of the time becomes predictable and I guess you can scheme against a guy barreling upfield nearly out of control.

Also with Alex Smith taking those short drops Harbaugh wasn't going to let his QB get rocked in the pocket.

JBCX
10-22-2011, 11:04 AM
Maybe this was an anomaly, perhaps his coaching staff didn't prep him, who knows but he sure wasn't some phenom out there that day.

I've watched every Lions game and I can concur that he has played like this all year. Some games were better, but in general, he is almost a liability in the run game, and as a pass rusher he'll generate decent pressure but nothing overwhelming, and because he rushes the passer so often, he's guaranteed to stumble into 6+ sacks over the course of the season. Then people look at the sack numbers, and his draft position, and say "Wow, Suh is the best linemen in the whole league! Unstoppable!"

Another case of a player being overhyped by people who don't watch the games closely.

JBCX
10-22-2011, 11:06 AM
PHI WR Desean Jackson: He wants to get paid like a top tier WR, yet he disapears in games. He's a deep threat, but not a true number 1. I think Philly lets him go at the end of the season.

Maybe the Bucs should sign Jackson next year; he's better than any WR the Bucs have right now.

Rabscuttle
10-22-2011, 12:00 PM
Running backs are hard to judge. Injuries, co-ordinators keying on blocking tipoffs, any little thing can cause a slump. I do worry every time I see a back get way too many carries at some point in their career. Usually a 400 carry season starts an irreversible decline. Chris Johnson didn't see 400, but he got a lot of carries for a small back. Did he take a lot out of his legs with that season or does his team just suck?

I have no idea what his deal is, I haven't seen the Titans this year, very little last year either.

DeepThreat
10-22-2011, 12:02 PM
Corey Williams has been good since his days in Green Bay where we swapped him for a 2nd rounder (drafted Brian Brohm). He got the franchise tag in Cleveland, too, meaning his was worth something. I believe he's been playing pretty well in Detroit since joining them.

This is wrong on many levels. A: The Browns never franchise tagged Williams. The Packers did, and the Browns then traded for and extended him. And he sucked in Cleveland as a 3-4 end.

He is a good 4-3 tackle though.

For the topic of the thread, I'm saying Matt Ryan.

FUNBUNCHER
10-22-2011, 12:55 PM
I've watched every Lions game and I can concur that he has played like this all year. Some games were better, but in general, he is almost a liability in the run game, and as a pass rusher he'll generate decent pressure but nothing overwhelming, and because he rushes the passer so often, he's guaranteed to stumble into 6+ sacks over the course of the season. Then people look at the sack numbers, and his draft position, and say "Wow, Suh is the best linemen in the whole league! Unstoppable!"

Another case of a player being overhyped by people who don't watch the games closely.

So you think Suh was overdrafted with the 2nd overall pick??
People don't think Suh is 'great' just because of his pass rush. It's the fact that he can generally dominate single blockers and it's why most teams don't man him up one on one for an entire game.

He's an instinctive, hyper-aggressive powerful high motor DT.

You keep poor mouthing Suh like he's a generic DT who for some unknown reason is getting unwarranted love from the sports media.

Forget stats, Suh's presence on the football field is disruptive and alters opponent's offensive gameplans. Like dropping a boulder in the middle of a creek. He forces QBs to rush throws and RBs to bounce out wide to the sideline. Suh demands so much attention from most team's blocking schemes that he makes the Lions DEs ALL look like pro bowlers.

This talk as if Suh has been invisible or less than impactful this season sounds like a bias and not an attempt to be objective.


Name a better interior pass rushing DT in the NFL than Suh.
DTs regardless of scheme don't stumble into 6+ sacks and multiple pressures.
(Nice how you came down from your '8 sacks' as the number almost any other DT would have in the Lions D).

Complex
10-22-2011, 01:33 PM
Andre Johnson is overrated? ....Seriously?

He has been considered the #1 or #2 best WR in the NFL for a couple season. The best WR should be able to score more than 8 TDs imo.

NY+Giants=NYG
10-22-2011, 01:37 PM
Suh is a freak athletically and reminds of JPP at DE. Both guys have a very high ceiling and tons of potential.

tjsunstein
10-22-2011, 03:16 PM
He has been considered the #1 or #2 best WR in the NFL for a couple season. The best WR should be able to score more than 8 TDs imo.
If you actually watch football instead of doing a little google search and nitpicking, you'll see that Andre Johnson is Top 3 at his position.

tjsunstein
10-22-2011, 03:35 PM
This is wrong on many levels. A: The Browns never franchise tagged Williams. The Packers did, and the Browns then traded for and extended him. And he sucked in Cleveland as a 3-4 end.

He is a good 4-3 tackle though.

For the topic of the thread, I'm saying Matt Ryan.
My thought process was definitely lost there, didn't mean he got franchised in Cleveland, obviously I was still thinking about his time with Green Bay. I thought he was going to work out as a 3-4 DE, but I guess not. I didn't really get to watch him during his days as a Brown, what was his downfall there?

Rabscuttle
10-22-2011, 03:50 PM
I would like Houston to trade Andre Johnson's overrated ass to San Francisco.

Sometimes td's are a scheme thing. Do they run him on slants inside the 10 or is it a steady stream of jumpballs? Is he used on posts? They do have other nice options that are probably pretty mismatches with Johnson on the field. Is Kubiak consistantly exploiting those in the redzone instead? (Don't watch much Houston to know)

I saw Braylon Edwards on someone's list. He's doing a great job of riding the bike if you ask me. Remove a nut and he's Lance Armstrong. It would be nice if he does something when he comes back though.

Rosebud
10-22-2011, 04:04 PM
I would like Houston to trade Andre Johnson's overrated ass to San Francisco.

Sometimes td's are a scheme thing. Do they run him on slants inside the 10 or is it a steady stream of jumpballs? Is he used on posts? They do have other nice options that are probably pretty mismatches with Johnson on the field. Is Kubiak consistantly exploiting those in the redzone instead? (Don't watch much Houston to know)

I saw Braylon Edwards on someone's list. He's doing a great job of riding the bike if you ask me. Remove a nut and he's Lance Armstrong. It would be nice if he does something when he comes back though.

Psh, Ramses Barden doesn't even need to lose a nut to give Lance a run for his money.

Rabscuttle
10-22-2011, 04:11 PM
Psh, Ramses Barden doesn't even need to lose a nut to give Lance a run for his money.

Awesome, props for finding a way to drop Ramses Barden.

DeepThreat
10-22-2011, 04:25 PM
My thought process was definitely lost there, didn't mean he got franchised in Cleveland, obviously I was still thinking about his time with Green Bay. I thought he was going to work out as a 3-4 DE, but I guess not. I didn't really get to watch him during his days as a Brown, what was his downfall there?

I thought he was going to be a stud in Cleveland. I think his issues were a combination of little gap integrity and lack of desire. He never seemed particularly motivated or interested in the 3-4 defense. I still think he could have been successful in a 1-gap 3-4, but he didn't work in the Browns' scheme.

He has been really good in Detroit though. Wish we had held on to him.

Complex
10-22-2011, 05:19 PM
If you actually watch football instead of doing a little google search and nitpicking, you'll see that Andre Johnson is Top 3 at his position.

Lol okay wise one tell me why he doesn't score TDs? What holding him back from scoring? He is not the only WR that gets doubled team.The best WR should be able to score imo.

Rabscuttle
10-22-2011, 05:36 PM
Lol okay wise one tell me why he doesn't score TDs? What holding him back from scoring? He is not the only WR that gets doubled team.The best WR should be able to score imo.

Not to step in between you two cuz tjun is a big boy and can take care of himself, but I did ask a couple of questions/put forth some scenarios. Are any of those things factors in the td production situation?

BradysKnee
10-22-2011, 06:30 PM
Lol okay wise one tell me why he doesn't score TDs? What holding him back from scoring? He is not the only WR that gets doubled team.The best WR should be able to score imo.

Maybe scheme? Maybe the Texans use Andre to open up his team mates in the red area?

tjsunstein
10-22-2011, 06:47 PM
When you have a talent like Andre Johnson, his biggest threat is to obviously make a play, catch the ball, run with it, going up to get it, you know wide receiver things. But the kind of impact that these kind of guys have on their offenses is what makes them elite. You bring Andre Johnson on a drag for instance, he's going to garner the attention of corner, any linebacker that may be in zone or is too aggressive and he's going to keep the safeties eyes underneath even for just a second. Now you might be sitting there going 'duh, but what does that have to do with anything?' You can see how that opens up an offense and a plethora of other receiving options for the Texans. Over time, Andre had to do something to gain that kind of respect that only a handful of WRs get. Calvin, Fitzgerald, etc,. His impact isn't solely on the stat sheet. It's on the stat sheet as well as every single offensive play that the Texans run while he's on the field. With that kind of attention, he still manages to put up the receptions and the yards. As an offensive coordinator, I'm using him to open up the red zone for my other guys to get open. Touchdowns aren't the be all-end all when looking at how good a WR is. There are countless ways to use an elite WR, you see how the Texans use Andre, the Lions use Calvin, and then you look at how the Packers use Jennings. All unique in a way but the talent is still utilized, the only question being how. There's no question that Andre Johnson is talented enough to get the TDs, but if I had a chance to look at the amount of targets that Andre gets in the red zone compared to a guy like Calvin I would guarantee it's about half as many, if not less.

Breed
10-22-2011, 06:51 PM
http://phogue.net/wp-content/uploads/2010/10/WALL_OF_TEXT.jpg

http://garygoh.files.wordpress.com/2011/02/unable-to-process-wall-of-text.jpg

tjsunstein
10-22-2011, 06:52 PM
tired of the neg rap, UCK YOU ***** !!!!
Breed, I really wish I could neg rep you more.

bigbluedefense
10-22-2011, 06:52 PM
Matt Ryan.

Raiderz4Life
10-22-2011, 06:55 PM
I'm not surprised Breed can't register the text. Its well written and makes good points. Breed hasn't been able to grasp those concepts yet...TJ stop going beyond his limitations.

Thecollegedropout
10-22-2011, 09:27 PM
Ryan, Matt
This x1000.

Thecollegedropout
10-22-2011, 09:32 PM
All the young QBs could fit like you said, but in my opinion Sanchez takes the cake for the following:

Debatably the best (or 2nd best) talent around him.
As much as jet fans don't like Schotty, I think he's the only reason he isnt throwing 3 picks a game. He gives him very safe throws (slants slants slants lol) and other gimme passes.
His big throws are almost always on double moves that the WR gives you, I've yet to see him run simple routes and hit the best one based on the coverage consistently.
I truly doubt his ability to read and identify defenses.
Sanchez has a great arm, but his mental aptitude in identifying and reacting to defense as well as the handholding this team has/is doing with him gives me serious doubt he'll ever be a top tier QB (or anything more than average).
Schotty is awful, trust me. He runs cute **** on 3rd and short that NEVER works and then refuses to take shots down the field when there is protection.

Likewise the O-Line was piss poor until lately.....Sanchez had NO time to throw. The Ravens game was very telling.

Also would help if Burress could get into the offense start to hold onto the ball. He's been lost so far this season.

The people who are picking Sanchez have not seen him get absolutely KILLED by the media here in NY. He's usually the guy who takes the blunt along with Schottenheimer for when the Jets stink. Hardly ever even gets credit because when they do, that goes to Ryan and the D.

Brothgar
10-22-2011, 11:26 PM
Mark Sanchez is obviously the most over rated player in the league. To give this guy credit for the Jets AFC championship runs is giving him too much credit.

niel89
10-23-2011, 01:10 AM
Breed, I really wish I could neg rep you more.

Just spread rep around and keep checking in often to see if you can. I -rep him as often as possible :D

tjsunstein
10-23-2011, 01:13 AM
You have given out too much Reputation in the last 24 hours, try again later.

EvilNixon
10-23-2011, 09:48 AM
Darrius Heyward Bey is the most underrated :)

Iamcanadian
10-23-2011, 11:30 AM
Who are the four interior Dlineman better than Suh??

I'll give you Ngata, better recognition and maybe the strongest Dlineman in the game.

Suh may be overhyped, but he's not overrated IMO.
If Gunther Cunningham ever got a clue and moved Suh more up and down the Dline, he would be freakish.

How does playing in a 4-3 inflate Suh's production?? The same scheme hasn't done jack for Gerald McCoy.

Suh is legit IMO and the one defensive player on the Lions opposing teams scheme around to beat.

Suh is going to be a great player but he still has a learning curve and isn't there just yet. Teams are running on the Lions, taking advantage of Suh's inexperience and tricking him into getting out of position.
He is currently a bit over hyped but certainly the potential is there.

Go_Eagles77
10-23-2011, 12:18 PM
I like Wes Welker, but the fact that some pundits are trying to say he is the best WR in the NFL, ahead of guys like Fitz and Megatron, is laughable.

Brothgar
10-23-2011, 11:45 PM
Suh is going to be a great player but he still has a learning curve and isn't there just yet. Teams are running on the Lions, taking advantage of Suh's inexperience and tricking him into getting out of position.
He is currently a bit over hyped but certainly the potential is there.

I think it has alot to do with this wide 9 BS that somehow seems to be popular with the league now.

tjsunstein
10-23-2011, 11:47 PM
There are far more overrated players than Suh, who has at least shown that he can be dominant at times. And he's only been in the league for a year and a half.

Ness
10-24-2011, 12:23 AM
Sam Bradford in my opinion. And it's not just because the Rams are doing terrible now. Last season his rookie season I didn't find that special at all. However a lot of folks kept giving him and the Rams team praise. That Rams team was a lot better than before he arrived, but at the same time watching Bradford play he wasn't some phenomenal rookie like a lot of people were making him out to be. I know he doesn't have that much help in St.Louis and he is only in his second season, but just watching him throw the rock, I never really bought into the hype. He could get a lot better though. We shall see.

yo123
10-24-2011, 12:23 AM
His best receiver is Danny Amendola and he's out for the season, so I'm willing to give him some time.

tjsunstein
10-24-2011, 12:24 AM
I'll give any QB 3 years before I can rate them fairly.

Ness
10-24-2011, 12:26 AM
His passing average is going to have to come way up if he's going to be successful in the NFL. They have a new coordinator, but Bradford is still averaging 6 yards per pass for the second straight year. That isn't going to get it done. I don't want to harp on statistics too much, but that one really sticks out. I'm sure it will get better with time. That entire team needs help. It will be interesting to see what they do in the offseason and during the draft when they potentially have the 1st overall pick.

Basileus777
10-24-2011, 12:27 AM
Denarius Moore or Jacoby Ford.

Or maybe that's just an overreaction to all the post-Palmer trade nonsense about how great Oakland's receiving corp is.