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killxswitch
10-28-2011, 11:40 AM
11.5 in 7 games means he's on pace for 25 sacks this season. He's defended 3 passes, forced 2 fumbles, and picked off a Philip Rivers pass in week 1.

If he continues at this pace is he the DPOY? Or does the DPOY need to be on a winning team?

ShutDwn
10-28-2011, 11:45 AM
11.5 in 7 games means he's on pace for 25 sacks this season. He's defended 3 passes, forced 2 fumbles, and picked off a Philip Rivers pass in week 1.

If he continues at this pace is he the DPOY? Or does the DPOY need to be on a winning team?

I haven't seen him this year but his numbers are huge. I think there can be exceptions to the player typically being on a winning team and a 25 sack season would work for me.

CC.SD
10-28-2011, 11:45 AM
11.5 in 7 games means he's on pace for 25 sacks this season. He's defended 3 passes, forced 2 fumbles, and picked off a Philip Rivers pass in week 1.

If he continues at this pace is he the DPOY? Or does the DPOY need to be on a winning team?

More importantly 11.5 sacks in 7 games puts him on pace for the sack record. If he gets it I think they'll give him the DPOY: typically there is that 'winning team' stigma but I don't think it's as strong on the defensive side, and Allen's pedigree is as stalwart as they come in terms of having paid his dues, maintained consistency, etc. Great season from a great player.

mqtirishfan
10-28-2011, 11:49 AM
I think he will definitely win it if he keeps up this level of play. Certain benchmarks overcome team failures in award voting. I think 20 sacks is one of those.

vidae
10-28-2011, 11:49 AM
He should be MVP of the league for the slogan to his KC restaurant alone:

Wine em, dine em, 69 em.

CC.SD
10-28-2011, 11:58 AM
I think he will definitely win it if he keeps up this level of play. Certain benchmarks overcome team failures in award voting. I think 20 sacks is one of those.

Unless James Harrison is in the running.

NY+Giants=NYG
10-28-2011, 12:37 PM
We just had a BYE week. Let's see what JPP can do against the Phins. Hopefully he doesn't get shut out.

djp
10-28-2011, 12:41 PM
He has been really, really good this year.

NY+Giants=NYG
10-28-2011, 12:44 PM
He should be MVP of the league for the slogan to his KC restaurant alone:

Wine em, dine em, 69 em.

Hahahah is that really true? That's awesome! hahahaha!

K Train
10-28-2011, 12:46 PM
good for him, he was pretty terrible last year

yo123
10-28-2011, 12:48 PM
good for him, he was pretty terrible last year

No he wasn't. Having a bad first 5 games is not the same as having a terrible year.

descendency
10-28-2011, 01:10 PM
Drew Brees won OPOY on the Saints in 08 i think... they won 6 games.

I think he's definitely DPOY.

Rosebud
10-28-2011, 01:11 PM
JPP's on pace for 20 sacks...

marshallb
10-28-2011, 01:13 PM
good for him, he was pretty terrible last year

No he wasn't. Having a bad first 5 games is not the same as having a terrible year.

Yea, that wasn't even close to being true. He only had one sack in the first 7 games, but ended up with 11 on the year. Even in those first 7 games, he was still getting hurries and pressures, he just wasn't getting the sack. Going by ESPN's box score stats from those first 7 games he had 10 QB hits, not pressures, but times that he actually hit the QB.

gsorace
10-28-2011, 01:16 PM
He got robbed in 07 when Bob Sanders won it for reasons I still don't understand. There have been a lot of undeserving DPOY winners lately, defensive player of the year is an individual award, not voting for a guy because his team sucks is ********.

Complex
10-28-2011, 01:23 PM
I believe that JPP will be the best DE maybe the best D-line men in this draft(behind Suh), I believe the hype.


As i bookmark this thread, I plan on putting this quote as my sig 2 years from now. :D

I know this is a Jared Allen thread but JPP is a beast and is 2nd or 3rd sacks. I think was pimping this kid the whole draft.

NY+Giants=NYG
10-28-2011, 01:30 PM
I know this is a Jared Allen thread but JPP is a beast and is 2nd or 3rd sacks. I think was pimping this kid the whole draft.

I hated the pick. I think you can count the number of Giants fans on 1 hand that liked it. That was truly a remote through the tv pick. At first one would think it was a project pick, in the first round, on someone who barely played the game. Not only that, it was at a position where we had:

Tuck
Osi
Kiwi
Tolly


Now Osi was coming back from an injury, but still, I hated this pick.

We had a bye last week, and JPP was 2nd or so in sacks, and led all defensive linemen in tackles. Our staff can't say enough good things about him. They also say he is still raw and has a lot to learn. He is doing all this with just natural ability. So we are all excited about him.

Once Tuck comes back, we can have our 4 aces package of Tuck, Osi, Kiwi, and JPP on 3rd down attacking the QB.



I like Allen though. I wonder where his HOF resume is at? I think he is one of the best DEs in the game. Just a great player. I think playing on the Vikings may hurt him for an award due to record. But if he got it, I'd be happy.

Splat
10-28-2011, 01:31 PM
You know you are pretty dam good when you have 11 sacks last year and people say "He had a down year".

K Train
10-28-2011, 01:52 PM
http://draftcountdown.com/forum/showthread.php?t=43458

from a year ago....what a difference in thread titles around the exact same week of the season

JBCX
10-28-2011, 02:03 PM
And his team is 1-6 with a poor defense.

Maybe pass rushers are overrated?

- The Vikings have a great bookend pass rush with Allen and Robison, and yet their defense is hardly stout: it is allowing 25.4 points per game which is 26th in the NFL.

- The Eagles have a great pass rush with Cullen Jenkins, Trent Cole, and Jason Babin but their pass defense, and in turn their entire defense, is mediocre at best: they are allowing 24.2 points per game which is 21st in the NFL.

- The Giants have maybe the best depth in their front four in the NFL and yet their defense is hardly stifling: they are allowing 24.5 points per game which is 23rd in the NFL.

So despite having some of the best pass rush in the NFL, the Vikings, Eagles and Giants all have fairly mediocre defenses.

NY+Giants=NYG
10-28-2011, 02:12 PM
And his team is 1-6 with a poor defense.

Maybe pass rushers are overrated?

- The Vikings have a great bookend pass rush with Allen and Robison, and yet their defense is hardly stout: it is allowing 25.4 points per game which is 26th in the NFL.

- The Eagles have a great pass rush with Cullen Jenkins, Trent Cole, and Jason Babin but their pass defense, and in turn their entire defense, is mediocre at best: they are allowing 24.2 points per game which is 21st in the NFL.

- The Giants have maybe the best depth in their front four in the NFL and yet their defense is hardly stifling: they are allowing 24.5 points per game which is 23rd in the NFL.

So despite having some of the best pass rush in the NFL, the Vikings, Eagles and Giants all have fairly mediocre defenses.




If you are going to be that than don't leave out the injury factor. Considering that is killing us. We may have the best depth, but we have yet to have a game where they all played.

Tuck played when Osi didn't. Osi came back and Tuck has been out for a few games now.

Prince may be coming back this week or next. Basically, we are making due with what we have. Eventually it should work itself out. Also, I know for myself, I am still not sold on Perry Fewell our DC. He has a lot to prove, unforunately he has a built in defense with regard to injuries.

Complex
10-28-2011, 02:16 PM
http://draftcountdown.com/forum/showthread.php?t=43458

from a year ago....what a difference in thread titles around the exact same week of the season

Let us all pray and hope Chris Johnson has the same turn around.

JBCX
10-28-2011, 02:20 PM
If you are going to be that than don't leave out the injury factor. Considering that is killing us. We may have the best depth, but we have yet to have a game where they all played.

Tuck played when Osi didn't. Osi came back and Tuck has been out for a few games now.

Prince may be coming back this week or next. Basically, we are making due with what we have. Eventually it should work itself out. Also, I know for myself, I am still not sold on Perry Fewell our DC. He has a lot to prove, unforunately he has a built in defense with regard to injuries.

The point is that just having a great pass rush does not a solid defense make. You still need sound schemes, and talented safeties and cover guys, and even linebackers.

The Giants can get pressure with their front four all day long but because their cornerbacks and safeties are a bit suboptimal, they will give up plays in the passing game.

It makes me wonder if a front four is really that valuable or if draft / salary cap resources would be better spent on talented safeties and linebackers, and then covering up for lack of front four pressure with scheme and coverage ability.

I mean, look at Rex Ryan's defense. Consistently one of the top 5 pass defenes in the league without a single impact pass rusher. He does it all with coverage (elite cornerback and safety play) and scheme.

killxswitch
10-28-2011, 02:22 PM
It's the Eagles I don't understand. Great pass rush, excellent cover corners. Yes the LBs suck but shouldn't the talent on the front and back ends make up for it? I guess not.

Or maybe the scheme is really, really horrible?

JBCX
10-28-2011, 02:25 PM
It's the Eagles I don't understand. Great pass rush, excellent cover corners. Yes the LBs suck but shouldn't the talent on the front and back ends make up for it? I guess not.

Or maybe the scheme is really, really horrible?

The CBs are not playing up to their talent level either, for the most part.

But alot of the passing yardage accumulated against the Eagles is to RBs and TEs as well. I mean, an average TE will basically be guaranteed a 100+ yard, 2 TD career day if he plays against the Eagles this year.

killxswitch
10-28-2011, 02:27 PM
So what part does coaching play if the known, proven cover corner guys are playing like crap?

JBCX
10-28-2011, 02:29 PM
So what part does coaching play if the known, proven cover corner guys are playing like crap?

Considering that the Eagles Defensive Coordinator is the former Offensive Line coach, probably quite a bit.

NY+Giants=NYG
10-28-2011, 02:31 PM
The point is that just having a great pass rush does not a solid defense make. You still need sound schemes, and talented safeties and cover guys, and even linebackers.

The Giants can get pressure with their front four all day long but because their cornerbacks and safeties are a bit suboptimal, they will give up plays in the passing game.

It makes me wonder if a front four is really that valuable or if draft / salary cap resources would be better spent on talented safeties and linebackers, and then covering up for lack of front four pressure with scheme and coverage ability.

I mean, look at Rex Ryan's defense. Consistently one of the top 5 pass defenes in the league without a single impact pass rusher. He does it all with coverage (elite cornerback and safety play) and scheme.



I agree with the stuff I bolded. That's very true. You need a good scheme and good parts of the other puzzle to have a complete defense. Rex has a great system. We had it with Spags, but he left. We need, for our next HC, a defensive HC who can call plays too. So we don't have to worry about him getting a head coaching job. Except for Spags, we have been plagued with utter garbage at the DC spot.

I think with the sad passing of Jim Johnson, Eagles fans are finding it hard to find a solid DC too.


With regards to us. We had webster, T2, Ross, and now Prince with guys like Bruce Johnson who flashed. We had great depth, and Kenny P and Rolle as our safeties. Except Bruce J is on IR, T2 is on IR, and no Prince.

I think our injury situation has made things as you put it suboptimal. We have Rolle playing CB in the slot, and his normal safety spot, meaning he is getting way too many plays.

But injuries is a huge factor, and to tell you truth I am still not sold on Fewell. We have the personnel to play man, and yet we are seeing way too much zone. If that's because of injuries then fine.. for now. But if we do that healthy, I think his scheme will be an issue.

Same with the Eagles for hiring a damn offensive coach as their new DC, in a year with no OTAs or mini camps to install the system then. So that's a bone headed move to do that.

D-Unit
10-28-2011, 02:44 PM
No fair. His defense is on the field most of the time.

NY+Giants=NYG
10-28-2011, 02:54 PM
No fair. His defense is on the field most of the time.

Very good point! If the offense stinks, that means more time the defense is seeing on the field. If they don't cycle Allen, then that means more snaps for him, he will see. More PT to accumulate stats. For a guy VERY talented as he is, to get more PT will allow him to get more stats. Either way, he is still a sick player who is having a great, great season. The issue is if he continues the pace will it be recognized even if the Vikings record isn't good.

MetSox17
10-28-2011, 03:32 PM
I'm sure there is stats for sacks/down played, or something like that.

Anyhow, D-Ware should definitely be in consideration as well. He's having a great year, and is second in sacks on a top five defense. Besides, he already got robbed once, maybe he can get a pity DPOY award this year.

VernonLawson89
10-28-2011, 04:08 PM
The Great Aldon Smith will catch up ;)

yo123
10-28-2011, 04:16 PM
Too many of your inferior pass rushers being mentioned in this thread. Let's get it back on track with this picture of Jared Allen with the bear he just killed most likely with his bare hands.

http://thesporthole.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/jared-allen.jpg

M.O.T.H.
10-28-2011, 04:57 PM
Too many of your inferior pass rushers being mentioned in this thread. Let's get it back on track with this picture of Jared Allen with the bear he just killed most likely with his bare hands.

http://thesporthole.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/jared-allen.jpg

http://www.blackcelebkids.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/06/demarcusware2.jpg

BloodBrother
10-28-2011, 05:01 PM
I believe during Strahan's record season, he had 12.5 sacks through 7 games.

descendency
10-28-2011, 07:17 PM
No fair. His defense is on the field most of the time.

You could say the same about Peyton Manning (exchange defense for offense).

I don't think that's a valid complaint. He's definitely a (very big) defensive factor in the games he plays in.

Splat
10-28-2011, 07:25 PM
I believe during Strahan's record season, he had 12.5 sacks through 7 games.

Derrick Thomas had 7 sacks in one game. Since we are just randomly throwing out what other pass rushers have done.

BigBanger
10-28-2011, 09:07 PM
Derrick Thomas had 7 sacks in one game. Since we are just randomly throwing out what other pass rushers have done.
OFIJ0vGBcXU&feature=related

XxXdragonXxX
10-28-2011, 09:14 PM
Cortez Kennedy won DPOY on a 2-14 Seahawks team.
So yeah I think Allen should get it if he keeps it up.

Bob Sanders Dreadlock
10-29-2011, 10:31 AM
Derrick Thomas had 7 sacks in one game. Since we are just randomly throwing out what other pass rushers have done.

Ya what the current record holder did is totally useless. Bravo.

tjsunstein
10-29-2011, 11:02 AM
Clay Matthews had consecutive 3 sack games in his career and stuff.

BloodBrother
10-29-2011, 11:11 AM
Derrick Thomas had 7 sacks in one game. Since we are just randomly throwing out what other pass rushers have done.

Thanks, but it wasn't random. Just showing that Allen is 1 sack behind what Strahan was at during his record breaking season.

bigbluedefense
10-29-2011, 11:58 AM
I noticed that the great DCs in this league are the ones with consistently great defenses. Talent alone doesn't make a defense. The Giants defense should be so much better then it is but I think Perry Fewell is a mediocre coordinator. Ditto for Juan Castillo and the Eagles.

Rex's defense actually doesn't have all that much talent outside their secondary and David Harris. But Rex is a brilliant dc. Look at what Wade Phillips is doing in Houston. Having a good DC is half the battle.

Rabscuttle
10-29-2011, 12:37 PM
If Favre signs with Washington or Chicago, Im calling shenanigans.

tjsunstein
10-29-2011, 03:18 PM
I'll be the guy to say he doesn't end the season with the most sacks.

Rosebud
10-29-2011, 05:29 PM
I noticed that the great DCs in this league are the ones with consistently great defenses. Talent alone doesn't make a defense. The Giants defense should be so much better then it is but I think Perry Fewell is a mediocre coordinator. Ditto for Juan Castillo and the Eagles.

Rex's defense actually doesn't have all that much talent outside their secondary and David Harris. But Rex is a brilliant dc. Look at what Wade Phillips is doing in Houston. Having a good DC is half the battle.

Like everything else it's a question of balance. Spags is one of the very best DCs in the league but his Rams are bad right now because they don't have the talent. Like everything else in life you need a mix of both to be consistently successful, just talent alone won't get you results...****** SHERIDAN...and just coaching alone won't get you results. That said the more you have on one side lessens what you need from the other side to be successful, ergo our giants being so stacked on D can dominate even with a mediocre DC...sometimes.

OzTitan
10-29-2011, 10:24 PM
And his team is 1-6 with a poor defense.

Maybe pass rushers are overrated?

- The Vikings have a great bookend pass rush with Allen and Robison, and yet their defense is hardly stout: it is allowing 25.4 points per game which is 26th in the NFL.

- The Eagles have a great pass rush with Cullen Jenkins, Trent Cole, and Jason Babin but their pass defense, and in turn their entire defense, is mediocre at best: they are allowing 24.2 points per game which is 21st in the NFL.

- The Giants have maybe the best depth in their front four in the NFL and yet their defense is hardly stifling: they are allowing 24.5 points per game which is 23rd in the NFL.

So despite having some of the best pass rush in the NFL, the Vikings, Eagles and Giants all have fairly mediocre defenses.

I think they are overrated if that's all they do, i.e. situational, but they are put in an every down role.

But then it seems the lockout is hurting defenses much more than expected this season. A defense will get consistent pressure up front, some nice sack numbers, but then it seems on every other play they're not getting a sack, they're more likely to give up a huge play. Sacks are after all only happening on a fraction of defensive plays, and a good D is a consistent one, and this is what seems to be missing more so this season - consistent down to down defense.

wogitalia
10-30-2011, 10:54 PM
But then it seems the lockout is hurting defenses much more than expected this season. A defense will get consistent pressure up front, some nice sack numbers, but then it seems on every other play they're not getting a sack, they're more likely to give up a huge play. Sacks are after all only happening on a fraction of defensive plays, and a good D is a consistent one, and this is what seems to be missing more so this season - consistent down to down defense.

This... The Vikings defense is pretty much sack or first down...

boknows34
10-30-2011, 11:14 PM
DeMarcus Ware had 4 sacks tonight to give him 12 for the season and his 6th consecutive season with double-digit sacks. Allen still leads with 12.5 sacks but this is certainly looking like a 2-horse race with Michael Strahan's single-season record of 22.5 also in jeopardy.

killxswitch
10-31-2011, 10:50 AM
Yeah nobody is running away with anything now. Too bad Ware's 4 sacks came in a game where the Eagles kicked some Dallas ass. QBs just aren't rattled by multiple sacks like they used to be I guess.

Rosebud
10-31-2011, 03:17 PM
JPP is only on pace for 19.5 sacks now...bummer...

D-Unit
10-31-2011, 03:30 PM
Yeah nobody is running away with anything now. Too bad Ware's 4 sacks came in a game where the Eagles kicked some Dallas ass. QBs just aren't rattled by multiple sacks like they used to be I guess.
Actually, the amazing thing about it is that he got them on a night when the Dallas secondary couldn't cover the Eagles WRs for jack crap.

JBCX
10-31-2011, 05:38 PM
Actually, the amazing thing about it is that he got them on a night when the Dallas secondary couldn't cover the Eagles WRs for jack crap.

Ware was basically the only one on defense making a difference.

They sure as hell didn't get anything out of Bradie James and Keith Brooking, that's for sure.

LonghornsLegend
11-01-2011, 02:32 PM
Even without a huge game I didn't think "running away with the sack title" was the correct term this early in the season. It wasn't like Ware and JPP were far off from what he had. You can have a few big sack total games early on and get you on a much faster pace, it's hard to tell with records like sacks.


I wouldn't even start to blink at 22 sacks until we are 4 games away. That said, Ware does have Seattle and Levi Brown to tear through still, Levi Brown is a 3 sack game in waiting unless they make some changes.

Jughead10
11-01-2011, 02:51 PM
Even without a huge game I didn't think "running away with the sack title" was the correct term this early in the season. It wasn't like Ware and JPP were far off from what he had. You can have a few big sack total games early on and get you on a much faster pace, it's hard to tell with records like sacks.


I wouldn't even start to blink at 22 sacks until we are 4 games away. That said, Ware does have Seattle and Levi Brown to tear through still, Levi Brown is a 3 sack game in waiting unless they make some changes.

We also always see at least one person early on in the season on pace. When the injuries pile up, and guys have nagging things here and there, the pace will slow. Also teams tend to throw more early in the season than late.

descendency
11-01-2011, 02:57 PM
Actually, the amazing thing about it is that he got them on a night when the Dallas secondary couldn't cover the Eagles WRs for jack crap.

Vick is used to being hit.

AntoinCD
11-01-2011, 02:59 PM
We also always see at least one person early on in the season on pace. When the injuries pile up, and guys have nagging things here and there, the pace will slow. Also teams tend to throw more early in the season than late.

Im not sure how much that will affect either Allen or Ware this year though.

Dallas get Washington in the middle of November and then NYG on New Years Day as their only two games were weather should have an impact. The rest are at home or at Arizona and at TB.

Minnesota get Green Bay in November and Washington on Christmas Eve as their only two games where weather should impact. The rest are at home in doors or at Detroit and Atlanta both indoors as well.

NY+Giants=NYG
11-01-2011, 03:02 PM
JPP is only on pace for 19.5 sacks now...bummer...

We have a lot of DEs now, and they seem healthy. So, we will be cutting his reps, and evening it out more.

JPP
Osi
Tuck
Kiwi
Tolly


That's a lot of DEs. Did you see the 4 aces we used on sunday? I want to see a lot more of of that this week.

wogitalia
11-01-2011, 07:39 PM
Realistically a Lion or Packer pass rusher should win the sack title as they both get to play the Vikes and Bears OLs twice...

killxswitch
12-13-2011, 02:40 PM
With 3 games left to go, it's

Jared Allen - 17.5
Jason Babin - 15
Demarcus Ware - 15
Terrell Suggs - 13
JPP - 12.5

Allen only needs 5.5 to get the single season sack record. Minny has two home games and a game in Washington left to go. He's had a 3 game stretch with 6 sacks once this season. I think he could do it again.

If he does get it I hope it's a hard, clean hit and not that Brett Favre nonsense.

A Perfect Score
12-13-2011, 02:58 PM
With 3 games left to go, it's

Jared Allen - 17.5
Jason Babin - 15
Demarcus Ware - 15
Terrell Suggs - 13
JPP - 12.5

Allen only needs 5.5 to get the single season sack record. Minny has two home games and a game in Washington left to go. He's had a 3 game stretch with 6 sacks once this season. I think he could do it again.

If he does get it I hope it's a hard, clean hit and not that Brett Favre nonsense.

It is irrelevant, as Terrell Suggs will be winning DPOTY.

I'm kidding, I love Jaren Allen and what he's doing on that awful Minnesota team is downright astonishing. What's more alarming is that teams haven't figured out to double him yet. How the hell does a guy with that little talent around him have 17.5 sacks? I'd be doubling him every play if all I had to worry about on the other side was Brian Robison (Not that he's THAT awful, but come on).

killxswitch
12-13-2011, 10:31 PM
It is irrelevant, as Terrell Suggs will be winning DPOTY.

I'm kidding, I love Jaren Allen and what he's doing on that awful Minnesota team is downright astonishing. What's more alarming is that teams haven't figured out to double him yet. How the hell does a guy with that little talent around him have 17.5 sacks? I'd be doubling him every play if all I had to worry about on the other side was Brian Robison (Not that he's THAT awful, but come on).

I really like that he's a complete player and not just a sack artist. With Minny's DBs you know it's not coverage sacks, either. I hope he gets to 23.

marshallb
12-13-2011, 10:41 PM
It is irrelevant, as Terrell Suggs will be winning DPOTY.

I'm kidding, I love Jaren Allen and what he's doing on that awful Minnesota team is downright astonishing. What's more alarming is that teams haven't figured out to double him yet. How the hell does a guy with that little talent around him have 17.5 sacks? I'd be doubling him every play if all I had to worry about on the other side was Brian Robison (Not that he's THAT awful, but come on).

The amazing thing is that he's been getting doubled or chipped most of the time, and still has 17.5 sacks.

I really like that he's a complete player and not just a sack artist. With Minny's DBs you know it's not coverage sacks, either. I hope he gets to 23.

As unbelievable as it is, 2 of his 3 sacks last week were coverage sacks, those were about the only ones all year though.

Vox Populi
12-14-2011, 12:54 AM
The amazing thing is that he's been getting doubled or chipped most of the time, and still has 17.5 sacks.

I don't get why people say this about a lot of the top pass rushers because it isn't true at all. No defensive ends see as many double teams as fans like to think, offenses can't afford to double a player on every play, and there are ways of taking defensive ends out of plays without putting two people on them. If teams actually double teamed a defensive end on a significant number of plays, any time that team blitzed or ran a stunt the offense would get destroyed if the QB didn't get the ball out realllllly quickly. Most of the time a defensive end sees extra blocking attention from a running back it is just a read and not by design. When a tight end chips thats certainly by design, but not very many teams keep six-seven blockers in more than a few times per game on passing plays.

Seriously, I invite anyone to find a defensive end that plays in a 4-3 that sees more than a few chips from running backs and tight ends per game on passing plays. I'm not saying Jared Allen isn't good, because he consistently wins in his 1-on-1 matchups like any good defensive end should, but there aren't as many people actually getting double teams in the league as people like to assume, especially when it comes to defensive ends. Allen doesn't, Freeney doesn't, Mathis doesn't, Peppers doesn't, Cole doesn't, Umenyiora doesn't, etc. The only time you see teams actually make a concerted effort to put two blockers on a defensive end is if their offensive tackle is so terrible that they couldn't possibly prevent the defender from impacting the play, and teams generally have a lot more faith in their players on gameday than fans do.

MI_Buckeye
12-14-2011, 01:42 AM
I don't get why people say this about a lot of the top pass rushers because it isn't true at all. No defensive ends see as many double teams as fans like to think, offenses can't afford to double a player on every play, and there are ways of taking defensive ends out of plays without putting two people on them. If teams actually double teamed a defensive end on a significant number of plays, any time that team blitzed or ran a stunt the offense would get destroyed if the QB didn't get the ball out realllllly quickly. Most of the time a defensive end sees extra blocking attention from a running back it is just a read and not by design. When a tight end chips thats certainly by design, but not very many teams keep six-seven blockers in more than a few times per game on passing plays.

Seriously, I invite anyone to find a defensive end that plays in a 4-3 that sees more than a few chips from running backs and tight ends per game on passing plays. I'm not saying Jared Allen isn't good, because he consistently wins in his 1-on-1 matchups like any good defensive end should, but there aren't as many people actually getting double teams in the league as people like to assume, especially when it comes to defensive ends. Allen doesn't, Freeney doesn't, Mathis doesn't, Peppers doesn't, Cole doesn't, Umenyiora doesn't, etc. The only time you see teams actually make a concerted effort to put two blockers on a defensive end is if their offensive tackle is so terrible that they couldn't possibly prevent the defender from impacting the play, and teams generally have a lot more faith in their players on gameday than fans do.

You're mostly right. Because of where Ends line up, it is very difficult to two blockers on them. It is much easier to double idefensive tackles.

However, teams can roll protection, move the pocket or stagger a backfield blocker to the side of a dominant edge rusher if there are few other pass rush threats on the defense.

Complex
12-18-2011, 05:35 PM
With 3 games left to go, it's

Jared Allen - 17.5
Jason Babin - 15
Demarcus Ware - 15
Terrell Suggs - 13
JPP - 12.5

Allen only needs 5.5 to get the single season sack record. Minny has two home games and a game in Washington left to go. He's had a 3 game stretch with 6 sacks once this season. I think he could do it again.

If he does get it I hope it's a hard, clean hit and not that Brett Favre nonsense.

http://www.unboundid.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2011/10/image_thumb7.png

This guy has the best chance to break the record now

http://media.philly.com/images/121211-jason-babin-400.jpg

BaLLiN
12-18-2011, 05:36 PM
I still think Cole>Babin

JBCX
12-18-2011, 05:37 PM
Babin is a pure speed rusher. He's kind of a liability in the running game, but if you put him on the edge and tell him to rush upfield, he'll get a ton of sacks.

HawkeyeFan
12-18-2011, 05:40 PM
Chris Long is up to 13 on the season, imagine if he had a decent interior Defensive Line.

killxswitch
12-19-2011, 08:47 AM
Pretty disappointing week to not get a sack for Allen, but not unexpected. The Saints are pretty good.

It definitely looks like sacks are up this year overall. Another effect of the move toward passing more and running less. But the best pass rushers aren't on very good teams. Here's the top 15:

http://i.imgur.com/S4PcB.jpg

8 of the top teams don't have winning records.

Suggs at #5, Miller at #8, Barwin and Smith at #12, and Carter at #14 are the pass rushers representing division leaders.

Maybe individually elite pass rushers are becoming less important?