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J-Mike88
10-31-2011, 02:13 PM
Their remaining schedule includes: Patriots, 49ers, Cowboys and Saints on the road; the Eagles, Packers and Cowboys at home.

The Giants are almost as big of a surprise as the 49ers given all the injuries they suffered in training camp.

They're 5-2 right now, lead everyone in their division by 2 games, although they are just 1-1 in the division while Philly is 2-1 within the division.

Like Gomer or not, you have to give Elijah Manning a lot of credit for the way he's played. I think he's throwing the ball as well as anyone almost.

As we start November tomorrow and finish week 8, what's your take and prediction for the remainder of the Giants?

JBCX
10-31-2011, 02:21 PM
Look at their early schedule. It's tissue-paper soft:

@ Washington
St. Louis
@ Philadelphia
@ Arizona
Seattle
Buffalo
Miami

They only went 5-2 with this easy slate of games and could have easily lost to Buffalo, Arizona, and Miami.

Now look at the remainder of their schedule:

@ New England
@ San Francisco
Philadelphia
@ New Orleans
Green Bay
@ Dallas
Washington
@ New York Jets
Dallas


I'd be shocked if they win emerge from that string of games with less than five losses.

This is a 9-7, 8-8 type of team, tops. They have a decent passing attack, an anemic rushing attack, a good pass rush masquerading a weak secondary, and a poor rushing defense. Just like in 2009 (when they started 5-0 against the dregs of the league and then finished 8-8) an early string of victories against bad teams will make them look better early on than they will actually turn out being.

nepg
10-31-2011, 02:21 PM
I think the Eagles come back and take that division. The Giants miss the playoffs on account of the NFC North and South having great years. The schedule is just too much for the Giants.

J-Mike88
10-31-2011, 02:24 PM
Look at their early schedule. It's tissue-paper soft:


Now look at the remainder of their schedule:

@ New England
@ San Francisco
Philadelphia
@ New Orleans
Green Bay
@ Dallas
Washington
@ New York Jets
Dallas

I'd be shocked if they win emerge from that string of games with less than five losses.

Just like in 2009 (when they started 5-0 against the dregs of the league and then finished 8-8) an early string of victories against bad teams will make them look better early on than they will actually turn out being.
Well-analyzed. Good be right.... + rep for the breakdown.

Giants fans will be rooting for Chicago to win a week from tonight as the Eagles go to Chicago. Remember Chicago shut them down last year when Philly & Vick were red hot coming in.

Ness
10-31-2011, 02:25 PM
That schedule is almost unfair.

JBCX
10-31-2011, 02:28 PM
Well-analyzed. Good be right.... + rep for the breakdown.

Giants fans will be rooting for Chicago to win a week from tonight as the Eagles go to Chicago. Remember Chicago shut them down last year when Philly & Vick were red hot coming in.

Correction: Chicago did not shut them down - Vick threw for 333 yards, 2 TDs, and the Eagles offense put up 398 yards of offense and 26 points. The problem for the Eagles in that game was that Jay Cutler ripped their crappy secondary to shreds by throwing for a career-high 4 TDs.

If the Eagles play better on defense this year, I think the Eagles beat the Bears easily. Also, the game is in Philadelphia this time and the Bears do not have the "home field advantage" which means that the Soldier Field turf will not cause the opposing team to slip and slide all game long, because they will be playing at Lincoln Financial Field.

Damix
10-31-2011, 02:39 PM
Should see in a few weeks if we can get it going. Getting healthier (Sunday's injuries seem pretty minor). Hopefully the middle of the OL picks it up. If we can start running the ball better I think this is a dangerous team.

While Eli is playing amazing right now, trying to rely on the passing game at the Meadowlands in winter never works.

AHungryWalrus
10-31-2011, 02:45 PM
Like Gomer or not, you have to give Elijah Manning a lot of credit for the way he's played. I think he's throwing the ball as well as anyone almost.

It's Elisha.

RaiderNation
10-31-2011, 02:50 PM
They might get in as a Wildcard, but I have the Eagles winnig the division. I've been impressed with how Eli Manning has been playing this year

nepg
10-31-2011, 02:54 PM
It's Elisha.
D: That's a girl's name! But you are correct.

Rosebud
10-31-2011, 03:11 PM
Too soon to say. The giants showed up n played great against the more talented teams on their schedule n played down to their opposition in the others. The D is stacked with a great DL and starting secondary, but the coaching's been very held back and cautious in games the Giants should "win on talent alone.". If we can avoid injuries and Fewell cranks up the pressure so we actually play up to our talent the D is superblwl caliber. One of the best safety tandems in the league and great starting corners, Ross is having a career year. All with some solid LBs the best set of Ends in the league and a really good set of DTs.

Offensively how well the OL can come together now that everyone's healthy...*knock on wood*...and how much play calling gets left to Eli will determine how far we go. Eli's playing amazing football and the receivers are talented...when they're not screwing up...but the running won't start clicking until the OL gels more. Right now they're the best of the NFC East and should get to 10-11 wins this season if all keeps going ok on the injury front.

tjsunstein
10-31-2011, 03:24 PM
The Giants seem to play to the level of their competition. They'll be in the hunt for the playoffs, and if they get in who knows what'll happen.

Rosebud
10-31-2011, 03:39 PM
It's so frustrating. We never get to blow anybody out, the team really just plays flat, simple and passive whenever they outclass their opponents in talent. Fortunately Eli's super-clutch and we do also play up to our opposition when we have to.

DI
10-31-2011, 04:13 PM
tjsunstein hit the nail on the head.. we play to the level of our competition. everyone thought we would beat seattle but the smart giant fan knew that that game was most likely going to be a lot closer than it should've been and look what happened.. we lost. same with yesterday. that game was so much closer than it should've been. we can't let our opponents dictate the pace and tone of the game and we let that happen all too often

J-Mike88
10-31-2011, 04:16 PM
Fortunately Eli's super-clutch.
That's obviously very, very critical as most playoff games are close enough that the clutch guy wins.

Too bad it's not NYG vs Phi in the final week.
Eagles will be hosting the lame-duck Redskins, while the Giants will be hosting the Cowboys. Can Dallas remain relevant that long?

Dallas357
10-31-2011, 04:37 PM
Elite Head Coach

bantx
10-31-2011, 04:49 PM
First half of the schedule was softer than Drake's high notes

bucfan12
10-31-2011, 04:54 PM
Honestly, I dont know. THey struggle against terrible teams (Cardinals, Seahawks, Dolphins) but will play good against better teams.

It seems like they play to there competition, and what should worry them is there not a very young team. They have a lot of established core players that are in there prime like Tuck, Webster, Manning, Bradshaw, Jacobs, Rolle, OSI, Kiwanuka.

I think coaching is a problem, but Eli Manning isn't an elite QB to me. He's still inconsistant.

Rosebud
10-31-2011, 04:58 PM
How the **** is Eli Inconsistent? That's the most baffling thing I've ever read on this board...this month...week...

keylime_5
10-31-2011, 05:01 PM
Probably won't make the playoffs with that schedule. Eagles seemed to have turned it around and are only 2 losses worse than the Giants. Cowboys schedule down the stretch is a lot weaker, but I don't think they have the makings to win this division. I don't like the NFC East this year to contend for a title. AFC South plus the 49ers, Lions, and Packers all seem much more likely to make a run in the postseason to me.

CC.SD
10-31-2011, 05:12 PM
Party rock is in the houuuuseeee tonight, everybody gonna have a good time

FUNBUNCHER
10-31-2011, 05:32 PM
Giants will go as far as Elijah takes them. If Eli brings his A game, the NYG have enough to run the table in the NFCE.

NY+Giants=NYG
10-31-2011, 09:10 PM
Our schedule is kind of messed up. Pretty decent early on and then probably one of the hardest in the NFL.

We are streaky, especially on defense. I am not sold on Perry Fewell at all. I think our offense is pretty much getting carried on Eli's back, who is by far, our MVP.

Injuries have killed our team, and we are sort of floating along. Oh, and we lost yet another CB for the year. Broke his arm, and still played 2 quarters, lol. So cue, another one bites the dust!

People forget we are a 5-2 team with a beat up team which was frm day 1.

On offense, like I said Eli is our MVP. We can't run the ball, we barely can pass protect, we have no super stars on our offense, and we are running around with undrafted free agents, who I pray run the right route when called upon.

Our TE is so slow, I can break anyone's leg with a golf club here, and they'd still crawl faster than our TE. But Ballard has been very productive.

We will see how this 2nd half of the schedule shakes out. We have the talent to keep pace with any team. It depends if the injury situation sinks us or do we still float our way forward.

Jughead10
11-01-2011, 07:53 AM
QB and pass rush. If you have those two things you can beat anyone, anywhere, anytime. We'll be in every game as long as we stay healthy.

I think it is probably safe to say that the East is only going to get the division winner into the playoffs this year. If the Giants beat the Eagles again on Nov 20, it might be nearly impossible for them to come back. They are already spotting us 2.5 games basically.

I think the Eagles problems are still there. Just like the Skins game last year, people are now back on the band wagon after the Cowboys game. Cowboys ran the ball 9 times. Granted they were down but they basically abandoned the best way to beat the Eagles.

bigbluedefense
11-01-2011, 08:00 AM
We'll find out over the next 8 weeks. The real season begins now for the Giants. We have our flaws, we can't stop the run (we run a base nickel defense) lack depth in the secondary, have a poor DC in Perry Fewell, and we can't run the ball. Our oline has been mediocre as well.

That's my concern. You can't win in NJ with the aerial attack in November and December. You gotta run the ball. Those passing numbers will go down, it's just impossible to put up elite passing numbers when it gets cold and windy out here.

So that's a concern of mine. If we want to sustain success over the next 2 months, the run game has to pick up. Right now we have one of the worst run games in the league.

Eli is basically carrying our offense. We can't expect him to do that all season with the upcoming weather. We have to succeed on the ground.

Our defense lives and dies with our pass rush. When it's on, we're tough to beat. When it's not, we're sitting ducks bc Fewell runs soft zones all day. I'm not a Perry Fewell fan.

NY+Giants=NYG
11-01-2011, 11:23 AM
I hate you Fewell!



Tryon's broken arm, which he played 2 quarters on! Good lordy!








http://a.yfrog.com/img686/6232/hk9vs.jpg

Rosebud
11-01-2011, 12:42 PM
Fewell does too good of a job in games against top trams for me to get on the **** PF bandwagon, but I do hate seeing how passive and vanilla we are most of the game against teams we should beat up on. Thing is we saw that under spags to, so I think that shift in playcalling comes down from coughlin. Our roster is also kinda streaky but even when the team had better leadership in the lockerroom the playcalling shifted gears based on the quality of the opponent as well.

bucfan12
11-01-2011, 01:31 PM
How the **** is Eli Inconsistent? That's the most baffling thing I've ever read on this board...this month...week...

Your right. Looking good 1 week, and then another looking lost and becoming an INT machine as a 7th year QB is completely not inconsistant.

bigbluedefense
11-01-2011, 01:32 PM
Your right. Looking good 1 week, and then another looking lost and becoming an INT machine as a 7th year QB is completely not inconsistant.

That would only make sense if it was true.

killxswitch
11-01-2011, 01:35 PM
11-5, division win, and win 1 playoff game.

NY+Giants=NYG
11-01-2011, 01:36 PM
That would only make sense if it was true.

I think people are going on based on last season where our OL was hurt and basically everyone in our wr corps was hurt on IR. WHat did he have Mario and Hagan as our X and Y in a scheme where these mongoloids have to run a lot of option routes and choice routes. On top of that, when you do try to make a good play, someone is fumbling the ball or tipping it up into the players hands.


But hey, whatever, I'll take him any day. Maybe we can one day get a new system, and he really show his talent. We see it now that our OL stinks and we can't run the ball.

bigbluedefense
11-01-2011, 01:38 PM
Eh, I don't really care what Eli's perception is these days. I'll ride with Eli any day of the week, so I'm good.

Especially when the game is on the line. I'd probably only take Tom Brady over Eli in a clutch situation. Honorable mention to Ben Roethlisberger.

Giantsfan1080
11-01-2011, 01:41 PM
We were a better team in 2008 but the upcoming schedule reminds of that year. I think we had 7 or 8 wins in a row against teams that had a .500 or better winning percentage. That was by far the best football I've ever seen the Giants play. Realistically we probably need to go 5-4 over this stretch to finish with a 10-6 record. The Giants always play up or down to their opponents so I'm expecting a fun stretch of football here. If we can get the run game figured out on both sides I'd be much more confident but I don't see us close there yet.

Giantsfan1080
11-01-2011, 01:42 PM
Eh, I don't really care what Eli's perception is these days. I'll ride with Eli any day of the week, so I'm good.

Especially when the game is on the line. I'd probably only take Tom Brady over Eli in a clutch situation. Honorable mention to Ben Roethlisberger.

I agree. I'm sick of defending Eli on the board as the group of Giants fans here know exactly what we have. Let the others think what they want at this point.

Jughead10
11-01-2011, 01:45 PM
But hey, whatever, I'll take him any day. Maybe we can one day get a new system, and he really show his talent. We see it now that our OL stinks and we can't run the ball.

I think our system does let us show his talent. What would be a funny experiment is watching someone else run our offense. It could be the most vertical offense in the NFL. I know Eli's yard per attempt is up in the top 3 of the NFL, but those behind him (and some in front) rely on a lot of YAC.

NY+Giants=NYG
11-01-2011, 01:49 PM
I think our system does let us show his talent. What would be funny experiment is watching someone else run our offense. It could be the most vertical offense in the NFL. I know Eli's yard per attempt is up in the top 3 of the NFL, but those behind him (and some in front) rely on a lot of YAC.

Well from a mental standpoint I agree. He pretty much does everything. It's sad that after picking the best play and reading the defense, some dumb dumb runs the wrong route, and it gets blamed on Eli.

How many QBs can actually run our system? Same with the WRs and TEs and the heavy choice and option routes?

Sometimes I wish.. well basically always I wish we had a different system. The worst decision we made was hiring Hufangel who is now in the CFL. Ben had Whisenhunt who I loved as an OC, and Rivers has Cam Cameron, and we hired garbage who isn't in the NFL anymore.

That's not factoring the circus atmosphere with Shockey, Plax, and stupid Tiki. We have come a long way since those fools running wrong adjustments and then throwing their hands up wondering why they didn't get the ball.

Leon Sandcastle
11-01-2011, 02:09 PM
Eli Manning is in the Roethlisberger, Rivers tier. Rivers is sucking it up this year but you know what I mean.

Just a tier below Manning, Brady, Rogdgers, Brees.

Jughead10
11-01-2011, 02:16 PM
Eli Manning is in the Roethlisberger, Rivers tier. Rivers is sucking it up this year but you know what I mean.

Just a tier below Manning, Brady, Rogdgers, Brees.

I feel like Brees is a bit overrated. Out of everyone, he is the most QB friendly offense. People flipped their crap cause Eli threw 25 INTs last year, but Brees threw 22 and no one made a peep.

NY+Giants=NYG
11-01-2011, 02:36 PM
I feel like Brees is a bit overrated. Out of everyone, he is the most QB friendly offense. People flipped their crap cause Eli threw 25 INTs last year, but Brees threw 22 and no one made a peep.

Well look at that damn Colts game! Do you think Coughlin would have ran up that score like that. None of the Saints RB went over 100 yards but meanwhile their QB gets 5 freaking TDs and over 300 yards. What they didn't have backups on that team that need work?

Coughlin would have pulled Eli and put Carr in. Same with other teams who chose to have their QBs throw 1 yard TDs to get their stats up. I think it was the Bills game, where we handed off to Bradshaw for 3 Tds instead of throwing it. If we wanted to pad Eli's stats and sometimes I think we should, we could have had ELi throw for all 3 TDs.


Just look at that Colts game.

14 yard TD pass
4 yard TD pass
6 yard TD pass
4 yard TD
2 Yard TD pass


Did they really need to throw to pad his stats? Did all their RBs get hurt? Do they even carry a back up QB? If that was us it would have been Run, run, run, run, run.. Probably have Bradshaw have a career TD in TDs. And if Coughlin wanted to be nice, gave it to Ward.

bigbluedefense
11-01-2011, 02:41 PM
Well karma got Payton for that.

I never understood why anyone would want to run up the score like that. All you're doing is giving your opponents more gametape of your passing concepts for no good reason.

AntoinCD
11-01-2011, 02:44 PM
Well karma got Payton for that.

I never understood why anyone would want to run up the score like that. All you're doing is giving your opponents more gametape of your passing concepts for no good reason.

Not just that, and it's something that the Pats did in 2007 as well so I'm not just picking out the Saints, but regardless of how hard the Colts were playing they still have probably the best bookend pass rush in the NFL. It was unnecessary to put Brees at risk no matter how comforatble he had been all day.

bigbluedefense
11-01-2011, 02:46 PM
Not just that, and it's something that the Pats did in 2007 as well so I'm not just picking out the Saints, but regardless of how hard the Colts were playing they still have probably the best bookend pass rush in the NFL. It was unnecessary to put Brees at risk no matter how comforatble he had been all day.

I'm sure Spags showed his team pictures of Payton eating a hot dog too. That doesn't sit well with opponents. Respect your competition.

That arrogance displayed against the Colts got the Rams fired up. I obviously can't prove that, but I do believe it.

NY+Giants=NYG
11-01-2011, 02:59 PM
Well karma got Payton for that.

I never understood why anyone would want to run up the score like that. All you're doing is giving your opponents more gametape of your passing concepts for no good reason.

True, but I mean come on, you couldn't get 2/3 backs over 100 yards each? You HAD to get Brees 325 yard and give him 5 damn TDS? I mean really? You had no back ups you can put it?

Like I said if it was us. It would have been all the Rbs getting the TD. Maybe Eli with 1, IF that, and then Mario or Cruz or someone running the wrong route, and that resulting in a pick.

So the box score would be 0 tds 1 int. And people would form their opinions on that, which happens a lot in our system.

If we cared about padding his stats Eli would have a sick amount of TDs a year just because the Rbs are getting the ball no matter what when it's that close to the goal line.

But that's why they need the league in passing attempts with 323 damn passing attempts, lol. The second guy is Matt S. with 299.

SickwithIt1010
11-01-2011, 05:38 PM
Eli Manning is in the Roethlisberger, Rivers tier. Rivers is sucking it up this year but you know what I mean.

Just a tier below Manning, Brady, Rogdgers, Brees.

Big Ben is with the top tier. Eli isnt in there.

FUNBUNCHER
11-01-2011, 07:58 PM
I clown on Eli all the time because he's a Giant(!), but I am coming around to thinking he's way more overrated than underrated as QB.

Rosebud
11-01-2011, 08:11 PM
I clown on Eli all the time because he's a Giant(!), but I am coming around to thinking he's way more overrated than underrated as QB.

How is he over-rated? Eli's been one of the most consistently clutch QBs the NFL has had since he was drafted. He runs a retardedly complex offense and he does a great job of it. Despite all of his stellar play he still gets left out of top 10 lists for the position, which is absurd.

Rosebud
11-01-2011, 08:21 PM
Your right. Looking good 1 week, and then another looking lost and becoming an INT machine as a 7th year QB is completely not inconsistant.

Seriously guy, pretending you know what you're talking about when you're clueless ends up worse than just admitting your ignorance on a topic and refraining from commenting.

Omar
11-01-2011, 08:26 PM
Seriously guy, pretending you know what you're talking about when you're clueless ends up worse than just admitting your ignorance on a topic and refraining from commenting.

It's not as bad as giving Eli a freepass at all times because of the system that the Giants run. Eli has consistently had a good to great running game(except this year), an above average O-line, and an above average WR group. To call his situation one of the worst in the league because of his system is such ******* overkill

Omar
11-01-2011, 08:27 PM
Big Ben is with the top tier. Eli isnt in there.

Rodgers/Brady
Healthy Peyton

Brees
Big Ben

Rivers
Vick

Rosebud
11-01-2011, 08:35 PM
It's not as bad as giving Eli a freepass at all times because of the system that the Giants run. Eli has consistently had a good to great running game(except this year), an above average O-line, and an above average WR group. To call his situation one of the worst in the league because of his system is such ******* overkill

I never said his situation was one of the worst in the league, just that it was one of the worst to put up numbers amongst good teams. Yeah he's had a good running game, it was great in 2008, hasn't really been since because the OL has aged, gotten injured and been replaced, but that running game's part of why the system isn't numbers conducive. With how crazy winds get during the winter the giants run the ball a lot, that dedication to the run is why it's effective, they also take away most redzone TDs from Eli that Eli would collect playing in GB, SD, NE, Indy, NO, Dallas, Philly. So his TD tallies don't get the boost most top QBs get. Similarly his INTs are inflated by how many choice and option routes his Receivers are running.

Eli doesn't get a freepass and when he costs us a playoff spot or a playoff win I'll complain about it. Until that day comes I'm going to be glad to have him Quarterbacking the team I'm a fan of.

Rosebud
11-01-2011, 08:38 PM
Rodgers/Brady
Healthy Peyton

Brees
Big Ben

Rivers
Vick

Cool, mine are:
Brady
Healthy Peyton/Rodgers

Brees
Big Ben/Eli/Rivers

Vick/Cutler/Stafford if he keeps it up.

FUNBUNCHER
11-02-2011, 12:44 AM
Seriously guy, pretending you know what you're talking about when you're clueless ends up worse than just admitting your ignorance on a topic and refraining from commenting.


Whoops.

I meant I think Eli is more UNDERRATED than overrated as a pro QB.
Good night.;)

J-Mike88
11-02-2011, 05:54 AM
Cool, mine are:
Brady
Healthy Peyton/Rodgers

Brees
Big Ben/Eli/Rivers

Why would Brady be so high?
His playoff success in the 2004 & earlier seasons when they won their 3 Super Bowls?
Or has he separated himself currently with his play this year?

I can't fathom how someone would justifiably put him, currently, in a league of his own, at the top.

Giantsfan1080
11-02-2011, 06:20 AM
Why would Brady be so high?
His playoff success in the 2004 & earlier seasons when they won their 3 Super Bowls?
Or has he separated himself currently with his play this year?

I can't fathom how someone would justifiably put him, currently, in a league of his own, at the top.

He did have an MVP year last year.

bigbluedefense
11-02-2011, 07:54 AM
It's not as bad as giving Eli a freepass at all times because of the system that the Giants run. Eli has consistently had a good to great running game(except this year), an above average O-line, and an above average WR group. To call his situation one of the worst in the league because of his system is such ******* overkill

Our run game has been trash since 09. The last time we had a good run game was 08, when good ol Plax shot himself.

Our oline has been mediocre for awhile now. I've been saying it for years, the Giants oline (when it was good) was the most overrated unit in football. Now everyone knows it's trash, but even when it was considered good it was never very good. It was a good run blocking unit once upon a time but never a good pass protecting unit.

That's not an excuse though. I fully expect franchise qbs to have good enough pocket presence and anticipation skills to make up for a porous oline. Look at Rodgers, Peyton, Brady, Brees, Eli, Roethlisberger etc. None have stud offensive lines. But they have great anticipation skills, great pocket presence, and they get the ball out and move around to buy time. With a franchise qb, you don't need a great oline in pass pro. Just an acceptable one.

Cutler's the exception, his oline is god awful. It's not an acceptable level. But as long as you have a somewhat decent oline, I expect the qb to make it work. So that's not really a factor as far as I'm concerned.

In a related note, I think LT has become one of the more overrated positions in football as a result. It's always assumed that you need that dominant LT to protect your franchise qb, and you should spend a premium pick on them bc it's a "safe" pick with guaranteed good results. But that's so far from the truth. LT isn't what it used to be. It's not as safe of a pick, nor is it as important as it used to be.

SickwithIt1010
11-02-2011, 11:42 AM
He did have an MVP year last year.

Its not last year anymore.

Giantsfan1080
11-02-2011, 01:09 PM
Its not last year anymore.

And Brady has still been one of the 5 best QB's this year.

Saints-Tigers
11-02-2011, 01:37 PM
The Giants are unpredictable and dangerous.

J-Mike88
11-02-2011, 03:43 PM
And Brady has still been one of the 5 best QB's this year.
Good point.
So he's not alone at the top this year.
Eli has been clutch-er than Brady this year.
The Giants are unpredictable and dangerous.
Very true.
But here, we are making our predictions.

I got a tweet today that said the Giants under Coughlin have never started a season worse than 5-2.
This can't be true can it?

NY+Giants=NYG
11-02-2011, 04:23 PM
Good point.
So he's not alone at the top this year.
Eli has been clutch-er than Brady this year.

Very true.
But here, we are making our predictions.

I got a tweet today that said the Giants under Coughlin have never started a season worse than 5-2.
This can't be true can it?

He has to be more clutch. Our OL isn't playing well. We can't run block for the life of us. Jacobs is doing zilch! Bradshaw is trying hard to create something out of nothing. We have no superstars on offense. Pretty much Eli putting the team on his back, and throwing to undrafted free agents.

Like I said before, if I took a golf club to both your legs and you had to crawl, you'd be faster than our TE, Jake Ballard! LOL. Hopefully guys will be coming back and off the PUP list, so something can happen.

But we lost another CB for the season, lol, so that is yet another kick in the nuts.

Jughead10
11-03-2011, 08:00 AM
I got a tweet today that said the Giants under Coughlin have never started a season worse than 5-2.
This can't be true can it?

I believe that is true. Or at least very close to being true. Maybe 4-2 or 5-3, something like that.

Damix
11-03-2011, 08:08 AM
I believe that is true. Or at least very close to being true. Maybe 4-2 or 5-3, something like that.


We've also be horrible in the 2nd half under Coughlin. Another reason I wanted him fired last year.

bigbluedefense
11-03-2011, 08:26 AM
Starting out strong has never been the problem for the Giants. It's finishing in December that's been the issue.

The pass game just goes to **** once those winds pick up in November and December.

CC.SD
11-03-2011, 04:41 PM
The only thing I care about with regards to the Giants is what an unexpectedly clutch and necessary pickup Victor Cruz has been for my fantasy team.

Rosebud
11-07-2011, 11:12 AM
The more I think about it the more I start to come to the conclusion that Eli Manning is my fav QB in the NFL, **** putting up numbers, Eli's just damn unstoppable once the game's on the line.

Saints-Tigers
11-07-2011, 12:09 PM
If it wasn't for wind, I'm pretty sure he'd already own every single record.

Rosebud
11-07-2011, 04:13 PM
If it wasn't for wind, I'm pretty sure he'd already own every single record.

That's a truth-fact.

MetSox17
11-07-2011, 04:21 PM
If it wasn't for wind, I'm pretty sure he'd already own every single record.

http://i920.photobucket.com/albums/ad47/melonmaster/not-sure-if-serious-.png

bigbluedefense
11-07-2011, 04:31 PM
The way the Packers are playing, I don't know if anyone can stop them.

Right now, I just want us to get healthy and make the playoffs. And take it from there.

If we get 10 wins, I'll feel comfortable. 4 more to go. Not gonna be easy.

Rosebud
11-07-2011, 04:48 PM
The way the Packers are playing, I don't know if anyone can stop them.

Right now, I just want us to get healthy and make the playoffs. And take it from there.

If we get 10 wins, I'll feel comfortable. 4 more to go. Not gonna be easy.

*shrug* a couple weeks ago I didn't think anyone would keep New England under 30 all year...

bantx
11-07-2011, 04:48 PM
Packers are beatable, Chargers proved it last night.

Auron
11-07-2011, 05:15 PM
Packers are beatable, Chargers proved it last night.
The thing with the Packers though is, their Offense almost never makes a costly mistake. They are so aggressive with attacking down field, however they don't turn the ball over very much at all. Defensively despite how many Passing Yards they give up they still are very good at forcing turnovers.

So you need to play a flawless game on Offense if you want to outscore them. It's going to be interesting to see how their game translates when the temperatures start dropping, if they'll have to use their running game more.

J-Mike88
11-11-2011, 04:49 PM
Packers are beatable, Chargers proved it last night.Yes the Packers are beatable, of course. Everyone is.
But the Chargers lost to the Packers... how did they prove that the Packers are beatable by rallying to lose by 7 points.
Others have almost beat the Packers..... Chargers only proved that the Packers defense is crappy right now.

The Giants are a team who could beat the Packers, so is Detroit. Both will get visits from the Packers soon....

NY+Giants=NYG
11-11-2011, 04:53 PM
Yes the Packers are beatable, of course. Everyone is.
But the Chargers lost to the Packers... how did they prove that the Packers are beatable by rallying to lose by 7 points.
Others have almost beat the Packers..... Chargers only proved that the Packers defense is crappy right now.

The Giants are a team who could beat the Packers, so is Detroit. Both will get visits from the Packers soon....

I'd more confident if so many defensive players weren't on IR. Ah well, try out best and see what happens. If we keep it close and make it a game, we may gain confidence and that can do a lot. We played the pats, and played very well. We lost a lead, and they win by 3 at our house. The team gained a lot of confidence which carried all the way through.

So who knows, as long as it isn't a blow out I am fine with whatever outcome.

shylo3716
11-11-2011, 06:10 PM
They will be the first team to knock of the Packers this year in the regular season.

http://www.markitmusic.ca/wp-content/uploads/2007/08/mark-my-words-logo.jpg

bigbluedefense
11-11-2011, 06:15 PM
I just want to beat SF and take it from there. Let's not get ahead of ourselves.

I actually hate the fact that the Giants are getting recognized. This team never plays well when the media slobs their knobs. They are much better in the underdog/nobodybelievesinus role.

The Patriot game was a perfect example of that.

Rosebud
11-11-2011, 08:21 PM
I just want to beat SF and take it from there. Let's not get ahead of ourselves.

I actually hate the fact that the Giants are getting recognized. This team never plays well when the media slobs their knobs. They are much better in the underdog/nobodybelievesinus role.

The Patriot game was a perfect example of that.

That's why I'm expecting the D to **** the bed against the 9ers.

bigbluedefense
11-11-2011, 09:00 PM
That's why I'm expecting the D to **** the bed against the 9ers.

Wouldn't shock me at all.

Rosebud
11-11-2011, 09:21 PM
Wouldn't shock me at all.

You know we're just going to sit back and play coverage against a team that runs the ball a lot and has a QB who hasn't had to carry that team when pressured. Frank Gore will beast this game, 150+ yards at least.

Ness
11-11-2011, 09:22 PM
I just want to beat SF and take it from there. Let's not get ahead of ourselves.

I actually hate the fact that the Giants are getting recognized. This team never plays well when the media slobs their knobs. They are much better in the underdog/nobodybelievesinus role.

The Patriot game was a perfect example of that.

"slobs their knobs..."

J-Mike88
11-18-2011, 10:09 PM
They will be the first team to knock of the Packers this year in the regular season.

http://www.markitmusic.ca/wp-content/uploads/2007/08/mark-my-words-logo.jpg
Who will, the Giants?
Are the Giants a much better home team than road team?
I know they in 2007 season, like the 2010 Packers, won 3 roadies to get to the Super Bowl, including beating the #1 and then #2 seeds.

That road was very similar of course!
Then both defeated a team who was used to only winning Super Bowls.
Very similar seasons.

These Giants are so hard to figure out... even you die-hard G fans go up & down on your team, because they are up & down.
But Eli has definitely gotten better...... and he's always been clutch. That bastard. 2007 still hurts. Why couldn't Plax have shot himself just a little sooner? Al Harris couldn't stop him.

J-Mike88
11-29-2011, 05:37 AM
The way the Packers are playing, I don't know if anyone can stop them.

Right now, I just want us to get healthy and make the playoffs. And take it from there.

If we get 10 wins, I'll feel comfortable. 4 more to go. Not gonna be easy.
You were right.... that's the thing I respect most about the Giants fans on here.
You guys aren't always ignoring the flaws, realistic, and don't get fooled when your team has a good record.

Unlike some of our friends from Tampa Bay who seemed to be a bit over-confident.

Sometimes looking at the schedule doesn't add up because teams change... who looks tough in September sometimes suck in December, etc.
But this Giants tough schedule is coming to fruition.
But I never expected them to allow 49 points last night.

The voters in this poll were right, a month ago.

J-Mike88
11-29-2011, 05:03 PM
How does this look for realism?

#1- Packers
#2- 49ers

#3- Saints
#4- Cows
#5- Bears
#6- Falcons or Giants

Wildcard:
Atlanta/NYG @ New Orleans
Chicago at Dallas

Bulldogs
11-29-2011, 05:08 PM
How does this look for realism?

#1- Packers
#2- 49ers

#3- Saints
#4- Cows
#5- Bears
#6- Falcons or Giants

Wildcard:
Atlanta/NYG @ New Orleans
Chicago at Dallas

I personally see us getting the 5th seed, I think we only lose one of the next five games, pretty easy for us down the stretch.

J-Mike88
11-29-2011, 07:51 PM
I personally see us getting the 5th seed, I think we only lose one of the next five games, pretty easy for us down the stretch.
Very possible.... how many losses for the Bears on that schedule?


Chiefs --Bears favored by 7 1/2
@ Broncos --Bears favored by 1 to 2 my guess
Seahawks --Bears favored by 6 1/2 to 7 1/2 my guess
@ Packers --Packers a heavy favorite
@ Minnesota --Bears a slight favorite, plus Cutler may be back?


The Giants need to sweep the Cowboys.

They did indeed, and that was the difference. Amazing they lost because of a blocked FG. Dallas always finds a way to piss down their leg, one way or another.

J-Mike88
12-02-2011, 05:52 AM
If the Giants lose to the Packers, get swept by Dallas..... is Coughlin gone?

J-Mike88
01-02-2012, 08:50 AM
That schedule is almost unfair.
Well they made it thru, they're in. Many times in the past 5 or so years, a team squeeks in, and makes a run.

I like their chances. I really don't like them probably being my team's first game, on January 15th.

I hear Atlanta is a touch matchup for the Giants next weekend, but I think the Giants DL will batter Matt Ryan, and they will shut down Turner.

The Falcons need Jacquiz Rodgers to become their Darren Sproles.

bigbluedefense
01-02-2012, 01:16 PM
I'm nervous about Michael Turner. For the most part, we've been a poor run defense this year. And that offense goes as Turner goes. We're not the best tacklers either.

And Atlanta just feels like they're due for a playoff win. Gonzo is due, Ryan is due, they have 2 WRs who can beast it, I think this game can go either way.

I'm not saying I think we'll lose, I think we have a 50/50 chance at winning this game, but it's not going to be easy. The offense has to really show up for us to win this game.

Grimes matches up well with Cruz too. Nicks is going to have to have a big game.

Malaka
01-02-2012, 01:18 PM
I'm nervous about Michael Turner. For the most part, we've been a poor run defense this year. And that offense goes as Turner goes. We're not the best tacklers either.

And Atlanta just feels like they're due for a playoff win. Gonzo is due, Ryan is due, they have 2 WRs who can beast it, I think this game can go either way.

I'm not saying I think we'll lose, I think we have a 50/50 chance at winning this game, but it's not going to be easy. The offense has to really show up for us to win this game.

Grimes matches up well with Cruz too. Nicks is going to have to have a big game.

I think we have a harder time with shiftier backs, which is something Turner is not. I am not too afraid of Turner but I am concerned with Roddy White, and how our offense will perform against a really solid defense. I think this will be a great and close game, I look forward to it.

J-Mike88
01-02-2012, 05:20 PM
This should be a great game, and good call about the Falcons being due.
I'd really like to see Tony Gonzalez get a playoff win.
One only, though. :)

JBCX
01-02-2012, 06:03 PM
This should be a great game, and good call about the Falcons being due.
I'd really like to see Tony Gonzalez get a playoff win.
One only, though. :)

If there's any linebacking corps that Tony Gonzalez should be able to abuse, it's the crappy Giants LB corps.

As long as the Falcons offensive coordinator can chip the Giants DEs and keep that pass rush in check, Matt Ryan should have an absolute field day abusing the Giants' mediocre LBs and CBs with Julio, Roddy, and Tony.

Rosebud
01-02-2012, 07:09 PM
If there's any linebacking corps that Tony Gonzalez should be able to abuse, it's the crappy Giants LB corps.

As long as the Falcons offensive coordinator can chip the Giants DEs and keep that pass rush in check, Matt Ryan should have an absolute field day abusing the Giants' mediocre LBs and CBs with Julio, Roddy, and Tony.

If Romo, Vick and Brady can do it no way Matt Ryan ***** it up.

J-Mike88
01-02-2012, 08:20 PM
If there's any linebacking corps that Tony Gonzalez should be able to abuse, it's the crappy Packers LB corps.
Fixed that.
Our pass defense allowed MORE YARDS PASSING this season than any team EVER in the NFL.

And covering TE's is one of our worst aspects of that.
Hawk can't cover Mike Ditka today.

J-Mike88
01-02-2012, 08:21 PM
If there's any linebacking corps that Tony Gonzalez should be able to abuse, it's the crappy Packers LB corps.
Fixed that.
Our pass defense allowed MORE YARDS PASSING this season than any team EVER in the NFL.

And covering TE's is one of our worst aspects of that.
Hawk can't cover Mike Ditka today.

We will be in trouble should we meet Jim Graham or the Patriots Dynamic Duo.

J-Mike88
01-02-2012, 08:22 PM
If there's any linebacking corps that Tony Gonzalez should be able to abuse, it's the crappy Packers LB corps.
Fixed that.
Our pass defense allowed MORE YARDS PASSING this season than any team EVER in the NFL.

And covering TE's is one of our worst aspects of that.
Hawk can't cover Mike Ditka today.

We will be in trouble should we meet Jim Graham or the Patriots Dynamic Duo.

J-Mike88
01-02-2012, 08:24 PM
Has Gonzalez still not ever won a playoff game?

Jughead10
01-03-2012, 07:49 AM
If there's any linebacking corps that Tony Gonzalez should be able to abuse, it's the crappy Giants LB corps.

As long as the Falcons offensive coordinator can chip the Giants DEs and keep that pass rush in check, Matt Ryan should have an absolute field day abusing the Giants' mediocre LBs and CBs with Julio, Roddy, and Tony.

Did you think the same thing about Jason Witten? Our LBers do stink, but it isn't as simple as Tony is good, our LBers are bad, he will tear us up.

Rosebud
01-03-2012, 09:44 AM
Did you think the same thing about Jason Witten? Our LBers do stink, but it isn't as simple as Tony is good, our LBers are bad, he will tear us up.

**** our back 7 is so much more talented than it was in 2007.

tjsunstein
01-03-2012, 10:55 AM
The Giants seem to play to the level of their competition. They'll be in the hunt for the playoffs, and if they get in who knows what'll happen.
I stand by what I said back on the first page.

J-Mike88
01-08-2012, 08:29 AM
I stand by what I said back on the first page.
This team has been fascinating all season long, even back on your first page post!

If you're right, then this should be a barn-burner today..... this is the game I have been looking forward to the most of this weekend's 4 games.

Which Giant team will show up? Or will we see both the good & bad today?

hockey619
01-08-2012, 10:36 PM
This team has been fascinating all season long, even back on your first page post!

If you're right, then this should be a barn-burner today..... this is the game I have been looking forward to the most of this weekend's 4 games.

Which Giant team will show up? Or will we see both the good & bad today?


I said it in another post somewhere, but the Giants have been the ultimate jekyll and hyde team for as long as i can remember. They can play with anyone on any given day. Or lose to rex grossman...twice.

Today they showed up and damn they looked great. Hell, jacobs was running harder than he has in two years, it was incredible to see that night and day transformation. MM looked good, everyone was just ballin and the falcons just never had a prayer.

when they show up, they show up big. But boy when they lay an egg, its ugly as hell.

J-Mike88
01-13-2012, 10:05 AM
I said it in another post somewhere, but the Giants have been the ultimate jekyll and hyde team for as long as i can remember. They can play with anyone on any given day. Or lose to rex grossman...twice.

Today they showed up and damn they looked great. Hell, jacobs was running harder than he has in two years, it was incredible to see that night and day transformation. MM looked good, everyone was just ballin and the falcons just never had a prayer.

when they show up, they show up big. But boy when they lay an egg, its ugly as hell.
They will be up for this game and I suspect we will see their 'A' game.
If the Packers play their 'A' game, they will beat the Giants.
But if the Packers don't play very well, or if the refs are the same as the ones the Lions had who stole at least 1 touchdown, than anything can happen.

Giants have great talent.
I'd like to put a poll up about that.....
If you could redraft 2 new teams from these 2 rosters designed to win NOW, I bet the Giants would have about 12 of the first 20 players.

SuperPacker
01-13-2012, 10:11 AM
If you could redraft 2 new teams from these 2 rosters designed to win NOW, I bet the Giants would have about 12 of the first 20 players.

Wait, what? Who?

They have Bradshaw, Cruz, Tuck, Osi and Jason Pierre Paul. Thats it...

Jughead10
01-13-2012, 10:16 AM
Wait, what? Who?

They have Bradshaw, Cruz, Tuck, Osi and Jason Pierre Paul. Thats it...

While J-Mike is probably over exaggerating, I do think our safeties might be in that top 20.

Jughead10
01-13-2012, 10:28 AM
They will be up for this game and I suspect we will see their 'A' game.
If the Packers play their 'A' game, they will beat the Giants.
But if the Packers don't play very well, or if the refs are the same as the ones the Lions had who stole at least 1 touchdown, than anything can happen.


I also don't want to hear about refs. I normally one who never complains about calls, especially in determining an outcome of a game. But there were several highly questionable calls that all went in your favor during the regular season. And now I sound like the people I hate.

hockey619
01-13-2012, 11:04 AM
They will be up for this game and I suspect we will see their 'A' game.
If the Packers play their 'A' game, they will beat the Giants.
But if the Packers don't play very well, or if the refs are the same as the ones the Lions had who stole at least 1 touchdown, than anything can happen.

Giants have great talent.
I'd like to put a poll up about that.....
If you could redraft 2 new teams from these 2 rosters designed to win NOW, I bet the Giants would have about 12 of the first 20 players.


actaully, i feel like the spread for this game is going to be very tight. The packers are more of a one man show whereas the giants (at least as of last week) were bringing the pain from everywhere. still not sure i trust jacobs to keep playing like he gives a crap but we'll see, this game should be a damn good one so many great match ups.

rodgers vs the rush
who covers cruz?
who covers jennings? jmike? nelson? so many freaking weapons that beat on us last time, our rush better be on its A game

i love this matchup, i can easily envision either team winning.

Giantsfan1080
01-13-2012, 11:15 AM
Wait, what? Who?

They have Bradshaw, Cruz, Tuck, Osi and Jason Pierre Paul. Thats it...

Umm Eli and Nicks?

J-Mike88
01-13-2012, 11:22 AM
Wait, what? Who?

They have Bradshaw, Cruz, Tuck, Osi and Jason Pierre Paul. Thats it...
Hakeem Nicks is phenomenal, and a lot of teams wanted to draft Prince this year.
We don't have any young CB's better than him.
Tramon is medium age and has been burnt so much this year.
Nobody would take Shields before Amakumura.

If NFL teams drafted, who would they take, Hakeem Nicks or Greg Jennings?

The talent level is close.

And Eli is a legit Pro Bowler who is clutch, usually.

SuperPacker
01-13-2012, 11:22 AM
While J-Mike is probably over exaggerating, I do think our safeties might be in that top 20.

Maybe but Burnett and Peprah are both good safties aswell. IMO a Giants/Packers team would look like this:

QB - Rodgers - Packers
RB - Bradshaw - Giants
FB - Kuhn - Packers
TE - Finley - Packers
LT - Clifton - Packers
LG - Snee - Giants
C - Wells - Packers
RG - Sitton - Packers
RT - Bulaga - Packers
WR - Jennings - Packers
WR - Cruz - Giants

DL - Matthews - Packers
DL - Pierre-Paul - Giants
DL - Tuck - Giants
DL - Raji - Packers
LB - Bishop - Packers
LB - Boley - Packers
CB - Woodson - Packers
CB - Williams - Packers
CB - Thomas - Giants
S - Collins - Packers
S - Phillips - Giants

Thats 15 Packers to 7 Giants. Obviously im being biased though.

J-Mike88
01-13-2012, 11:24 AM
I also don't want to hear about refs. I normally one who never complains about calls, especially in determining an outcome of a game. But there were several highly questionable calls that all went in your favor during the regular season. And now I sound like the people I hate.
Refs do make mistakes, sometimes big ones.
There's no harm in admitting that.
The Lions got hosed out of at least one touchdown last week which would have put them up by 14. Probably would not have made a difference, but we'll never know.

Refs are a factor too often IMO. Shouldn't surprise anyone since they are human. And they're old usually.

SuperPacker
01-13-2012, 11:25 AM
Hakeem Nicks is phenomenal, and a lot of teams wanted to draft Prince this year.
We don't have any young CB's better than him.
Tramon is medium age and has been burnt so much this year.
Nobody would take Shields before Amakumura.

If NFL teams drafted, who would they take, Hakeem Nicks or Greg Jennings?

The talent level is close.

And Eli is a legit Pro Bowler who is clutch, usually.

Jennings is better than Nicks. No doubt.

So what about Prince? Hes not a starter for the Giants and wouldnt be a starter for us.

Yes Eli is good but Rodgers.

Giantsfan1080
01-13-2012, 11:37 AM
Webster is better than Thomas. Also, Matthews with his hand in the dirt wouldn't be the same as he is now. Nicks is better than Cruz.

SuperPacker
01-13-2012, 11:47 AM
Webster is better than Thomas. Also, Matthews with his hand in the dirt wouldn't be the same as he is now. Nicks is better than Cruz.

I know Matthews wouldnt be the same but i couldnt leave him out cus hes an elite pass rusher. Maybe play 3-4 with Tuck, Raji and Canty DL then Pierre-Paul and Matthews at OLB.

BaLLiN
01-13-2012, 03:50 PM
QB:Rodgers /Manning
RB: Bradshaw
FB: The Kuhn
WR: Nelson
WR: Nicks
TE: Finley
LT: Clifton
LG: Snee
C: Wells
RG: Sitton
RT: McKenzie


LE: Pierre Paul
DT: Raji
DT: Pickett /Canty
RE: Tuck
LB: Boley
LB: Bishop
LB: Matthews
CB: Woodson
CB: Webster
S: Phillips
S: Rolle

10 out of 22 for Packers with two being in between. Crucify me for saying that Eli and Canty could be preferred over the Rodgers and Pickett.

Edit: and we are doing this with current active rosters.

SuperPacker
01-13-2012, 04:04 PM
[B]QB:Rodgers /Manning


Seriously? Are you saying Eli Manning is as good as Aaron Rodgers?

BaLLiN
01-13-2012, 04:11 PM
Seriously? Are you saying Eli Manning is as good as Aaron Rodgers?

Statistically he's not, but I am willing to make the case, yes.

SuperPacker
01-13-2012, 04:12 PM
QB:Rodgers /Manning
Manning is not as good as Rodgers.
RB: Bradshaw
Yes, Bradshaw brings a lot more than Starks and Grant
FB: The Kuhn
WR: Nelson
Jennings is better than Nelson IMO.
WR: Nicks
TE: Finley
LT: Clifton
LG: Snee
C: Wells
RG: Sitton
RT: McKenzie
Dont know much about McKenzie but probably arguable between him and Bulaga


LE: Pierre Paul
DT: Raji
DT: Pickett /Canty
RE: Tuck
LB: Boley
LB: Bishop
LB: Matthews
CB: Woodson
Williams is better than Woodson so if you think Woodson is better than Webster you need to swap Webster with Williams
CB: Webster
S: Phillips
S: Rolle

10 out of 22 for Packers with two being in between. Crucify me for saying that Eli and Canty could be preferred over the Rodgers and Pickett.

Edit: and we are doing this with current active rosters.

Overall quite fair but really dont understand the Manning one!

SuperPacker
01-13-2012, 04:17 PM
Statistically he's not, but I am willing to make the case, yes.

Make your case...

J-Mike88
01-13-2012, 04:19 PM
So it's showing that it's pretty close, as I said.

We in Green Bay are just used to Rodgers being the difference.
But against a QB on fire, clutch, it isn't always that easy.
Warner got us.
Brees threw no picks in week one and it was down to the final play, luckily we had the one fumble in the game when the now AWOL-Collins popped it from Colston.

scottyboy
01-13-2012, 04:20 PM
Even in his older age, McKenzie is better than the youngster Bulaga.

But I'm not going to start in this fictional debate.

and webster is light years better than tramon williams. He's a top 5 CB.

just my $.02

SuperPacker
01-13-2012, 04:25 PM
Even in his older age, McKenzie is better than the youngster Bulaga.

But I'm not going to start in this fictional debate.

and webster is light years better than tramon williams. He's a top 5 CB.

just my $.02

Lights years? Williams was a pro bowler last year...

scottyboy
01-13-2012, 04:29 PM
Lights years? Williams was a pro bowler last year...

and Roy Williams the safety was pro bowlers for like 6 consecutive years. Pro Bowls mean absolutely nothing and are the worst barometer to judge players by

SuperPacker
01-13-2012, 04:35 PM
and Roy Williams the safety was pro bowlers for like 6 consecutive years. Pro Bowls mean absolutely nothing and are the worst barometer to judge players by

He played at a pro bowl level though. He was a top 5 CB last year.

BloodBrother
01-13-2012, 04:36 PM
Williams was a top 5 CB last season

he hasn't had the same success this year though so Webster over him is fine by me but he isn't light years ahead of him

I'd take Bulaga at RT though. He's been their best OLineman this season. Well, him or Wells.

SuperPacker
01-13-2012, 04:37 PM
Williams was a top 5 CB last season

he hasn't had the same success this year though so Webster over him is fine by me but he isn't light years ahead of him

I'd take Bulaga at RT though. He's been their best OLineman this season. Well, him or Wells.

I second this.

BaLLiN
01-13-2012, 04:39 PM
Make your case...

There are a lot of Pro Football Focus stats that I could bring up about our offense being the most vertical in the league, that we have the highest YIA and YAC (might be second in YAC, i'm not exactly sure but its first or second). But I am going to throw that all out because I want to focus moreso on the comparisons between them to show you they are both high caliber players. And this whole business about the system of the Packers being the reason why Rodgers is so good is debatable, but ultimately its stupid to say because we've seen what Rodgers has done.

Rodgers and Manning both have a lot of dropped passes from their receivers, so that shouldn't be part of this. The way the packers are set up, having a tightend with great athleticism is one things that really helps Rodgers and something that Eli hasn't had since Shockey. He stretches the defense, and this ability to make the defense cover the whole field (space) instead of just players a reason why he is having an excellent season. The Giants have had to do this in other ways. Developing this vertical threat allows for the easier completions, easier reads, and more success.

Evaluating them individually, Rodgers is much more mobile, has a quicker release, and is very accurate on throws in the middle. Eli might have a tad better armstrength, but not much, is more accurate deep and to the sideline. I have never seen two quarterbacks be this accurate and clutch downfield. Eli also is better presnap, and I am willing to prove it a million times over. He is getting to the point where in a few years, he might be as good as his brother. Rodgers does a lot of things presnap, but he isn't up to that level and the reason why this goes unnoticed is because he can extend plays with his mobility and make it a positive.

Eli throws interceptions, but god damn, these interceptions are crazy. I am not saying these are great decisions, but deflections off of players' hands, helmets, etc.? We also don't throw the ball much in the redzone, there is a reason why our offense stalls in the redzone because our playcall gets soo conservative and run oriented. Rodgers has a lot of touchdowns, very little interceptions, so statistically he's better no doubt. But we literally, DO NOT PASS IT in the redzone.

I don't think its a surprise, but both of these quarterback have carried their teams. Both are elite quarterbacks, both are clutch. One of them has clearly had the better statistical year, but the other has put the team on his back in a much bigger way and has become a much more veteran player. If I want to win now, I don't know who I would choose. If I want to build a team around someone, I don't think theres any question it should be Rodgers, but now I think Eli could be just as good and maybe better.

SuperPacker
01-13-2012, 05:02 PM
There are a lot of Pro Football Focus stats that I could bring up about our offense being the most vertical in the league, that we have the highest YIA and YAC (might be second in YAC, i'm not exactly sure but its first or second). But I am going to throw that all out because I want to focus moreso on the comparisons between them to show you they are both high caliber players. And this whole business about the system of the Packers being the reason why Rodgers is so good is debatable, but ultimately its stupid to say because we've seen what Rodgers has done.

Please no, not PFF!

Rodgers and Manning both have a lot of dropped passes from their receivers, so that shouldn't be part of this. The way the packers are set up, having a tightend with great athleticism is one things that really helps Rodgers and something that Eli hasn't had since Shockey. He stretches the defense, and this ability to make the defense cover the whole field (space) instead of just players a reason why he is having an excellent season. The Giants have had to do this in other ways. Developing this vertical threat allows for the easier completions, easier reads, and more success.

Rodgers has the better receivers yes, but Manning has a run game to rely on.

Evaluating them individually, Rodgers is much more mobily, has a quicker release, and is very accurate on throws in the middle. Eli might have a tad better armstrength, but not much, is more accurate deep and to the sideline. I have never seen two quarterbacks be this accurate and clutch downfield. Eli also is better presnap, and I am willing to prove it a million times over. He is getting to the point where in a few years, he might be as good as his brother. Rodgers does a lot of things presnap, but he isn't up to that level and the reason why this goes unnoticed is because he can extend plays with his mobility and make it a positive.

Rodgers mobility is what makes him the Elite of the Elite. If you rush him he'll just slide out he pocket and even become more accurate on the run. This makes him almost unstoppable. Eli really more accurate to the sideline? Rodgers back shoulder throws are the best in the league which is a basically unstoppable play. Not sure about pre snap but vs the Lions Rodgers called the plays in the first half and actually put more points on the board than MM. This shows a great understanding of defenses and what you need to do to beat an offense. Rodgers could easily run the offense on his own.

Eli throws interceptions, but god damn, these interceptions are crazy. I am not saying these are great decisions, but deflections off of players' hands, helmets, etc.? We also don't throw the ball much in the redzone, there is a reason why our offense stalls in the redzone because our playcall gets soo conservative and run oriented. Rodgers has a lot of touchdowns, very little interceptions, so statistically he's better no doubt. But we literally, DO NOT PASS IT in the redzone.

This is the main reason Manning is not in Rodgers category. Interceptions. You can talk all you want about drops and being unlucky, but its not like its just this year. The same thing happened last year. It is definitely not just luck. Rodgers just takes care of the ball. IMO the most underrated trait a QB can have. The Eagles sucked because they turned the ball over, the 49ers won because they didnt. The Bills stopped winning when they stopped turning the ball over. Dont turn the ball over and you should be alright, and thats what Rodgers does.

I don't think its a surprise, but both of these quarterback have carried their teams. Both are elite quarterbacks, both are clutch. One of them has clearly had the better statistical year, but the other has put the team on his back in a much bigger way and has become a much more veteran player. If I want to win now, I don't know who I would choose. If I want to build a team around someone, I don't think theres any question it should be Rodgers, but now I think Eli could be just as good and maybe better.

Obviously i completely disagree and i dont even think its close. To me the two main reasons are because of Rodgers mobility and the minimal amount of mistakes and interceptions he makes. If Manning was on the Packers would we of gone 15-1? No.

10 characters

scottyboy
01-13-2012, 05:48 PM
havent watched Bulaga, so i'll leave that one to you guys. K-Mac's been solid.
I'll fight to the death defending Webster. He's one of the few I'll do so for.

And I just read "Manning had a run game to rely on" in which I will promptly not read this thread ever again

SuperPacker
01-13-2012, 05:51 PM
havent watched Bulaga, so i'll leave that one to you guys. K-Mac's been solid.
I'll fight to the death defending Webster. He's one of the few I'll do so for.

And I just read "Manning had a run game to rely on" in which I will promptly not read this thread ever again

I dont care if your ranked 32 on rushing offense. The last four games your rushing offense has been well above average and this is probably why Mannings game has improved recently.

Rosebud
01-13-2012, 05:54 PM
Maybe but Burnett and Peprah are both good safties aswell. IMO a Giants/Packers team would look like this:

QB - Rodgers - Packers
RB - Bradshaw - Giants
FB - Kuhn - Packers
TE - Finley - Packers
LT - Clifton - Packers
LG - Snee - Giants
C - Wells - Packers
RG - Sitton - Packers
RT - Bulaga - Packers
WR - Jennings - Packers
WR - Cruz - Giants

DL - Matthews - Packers
DL - Pierre-Paul - Giants
DL - Tuck - Giants
DL - Raji - Packers
LB - Bishop - Packers
LB - Boley - Packers
CB - Woodson - Packers
CB - Williams - Packers
CB - Thomas - Giants
S - Collins - Packers
S - Phillips - Giants

Thats 15 Packers to 7 Giants. Obviously im being biased though.

I don't even know what to say to a list that has those three corners on it but doesn't have Corey Webster. I'm genuinely stunned, it's probably the back pain, but right now this is genuinely blowing my mind.

SuperPacker
01-13-2012, 05:57 PM
I don't even know what to say to a list that has those three corners on it but doesn't have Corey Webster. I'm genuinely stunned, it's probably the back pain, but right now this is genuinely blowing my mind.

Webster is a good player who I should of put on the list, but f****** hell! Hes not Darelle Revis.

Rosebud
01-13-2012, 06:05 PM
I think Eli's just a notch below Rodgers on QB rankings but not because of their talent or individual play, on that I'd agree with ballin that they're in similar stratospheres because Eli really is one of the very best play callers and pre-snap QBs in the NFL while also being up there with anybody on throwing the deep ball, but Rodgers is in a much more QB friendly environment, from his OL, coaching staff and actually having a weapon TD and so he has gotten to show a level of performance we haven't gotten to see out of Eli. Let Eli call the plays, find him a TE who can make big plays and fix up our OL so that we have a reliable running game and we could see that level of performance from Eli, but Rodgers is already producing at that level and with the talent around him could stay around that level until the league adjusts to the new rules. That said if Eli wins this game and takes us to the superbowl I'm picking Eli every time...but I just don't expect that to happen with Perry Fewell and our OL/running game.

Rosebud
01-13-2012, 06:08 PM
Webster is a good player who I should of put on the list, but f****** hell! Hes not Darelle Revis.

That's because no one's Darelle Revis except for Darelle Revis, he's the only corner in the NFL who's really one of the best defenders in the league. Web's in that next tier though, especially now that he's actually great in zone coverage and not just man and he has been a top 5-10 CB for years now. Putting Woodson, Williams or Thomas...who didn't even play this year and will be coming back from an ACL tear next year...above just really floored me, sorry.

DraftSavant
01-13-2012, 06:14 PM
If Corey Webster truly learned to play zone and off-man than he probably is a top 5 corner in the NFL, because he's been one of the league's best press-man guys for a long time now.

Rosebud
01-13-2012, 06:17 PM
If Corey Webster truly learned to play zone and off-man than he probably is a top 5 corner in the NFL, because he's been one of the league's best press-man guys for a long time now.

It's one of the few things that's saved Perry Fewell's ass. C-Web's a genuinely good zone corner, he's not a great playmaker so playing in the zone he makes less of an impact than he would if he just got to blanket a single receiver in man, but he does a great job of making guys make tough catches in his zone and wrapping them up if they do.

SuperPacker
01-13-2012, 06:22 PM
The amount of homerism is unbelievable! You could easily argue whether Manning should of even made it to the pro bowl. Stafford had a great year which IMO was better than Mannings.

Ask anyone thats not a Giants fan who's better Rodgers or Manning and Rodgers would easily get 95% of the votes. I cant even believe im discussing this.

Im not a stats guy. But look at these.

Completion %
Rodgers-68%
Manning-61%

Yards per Attempt
Rodgers-9.25
Manning-8.38

Touchdowns
Rodgers-45
Manning-29

Interceptions
Rodgers-6
Manning-16

Passer Rating
Rodgers-122.5
Manning-92.9

Yards per Game
Rodgers-310
Manning-308

Rodgers also got sacked 8 more times.

scottyboy
01-13-2012, 06:33 PM
I'm not making that argument, I won't go there and feel Rodgers is on another level. but the webster hate is unreal, and the fact that you said Manning had the run game to rely on, and then acknowledging them being DEAD LAST in the NFL but dismissing it because of the last 4 games is unreal. Eli carried this dogshit team to a respectable record until the D, OL and running game woke up.

and while Webster isn't revis, he's shut down damn near every receiver he's covered.

Bengalsrocket
01-13-2012, 06:43 PM
Rodgers also got sacked 8 more times.

As with any quarterback, a fair amount of Rodger's sacks are his own fault too. You sold your argument with the first 6 statistics, why add this one? :P

SuperPacker
01-13-2012, 06:49 PM
I'm not making that argument, I won't go there and feel Rodgers is on another level. but the webster hate is unreal, and the fact that you said Manning had the run game to rely on, and then acknowledging them being DEAD LAST in the NFL but dismissing it because of the last 4 games is unreal. Eli carried this dogshit team to a respectable record until the D, OL and running game woke up.

and while Webster isn't revis, he's shut down damn near every receiver he's covered.

Webster hate? I haven't hated on Webster. Hes a great man corner, struggles in zone still a bit but still i think hes a great player.

So Manning needs a run game and a defense to get his team winning whereas Rodgers has had neither all season and led us too a 15-1 season.

Manning is a good QB but the people comparing him to Rodgers are deluded and im agreeing that Webster is a great player so whats your argument?

SuperPacker
01-13-2012, 06:51 PM
As with any quarterback, a fair amount of Rodger's sacks are his own fault too. You sold your argument with the first 6 statistics, why add this one? :P

Blaming Rodgers? I blame the Offensive line that had Marshall Newhouse and Evan Dietrich-Smith (two poor excuses of players) protecting him. Rodgers might be at fault for some of the sacks but he gets out of a lot of sacks because of his athleticism.

Rosebud
01-13-2012, 06:55 PM
Webster hate? I haven't hated on Webster. Hes a great man corner, struggles in zone still a bit but still i think hes a great player.

So Manning needs a run game and a defense to get his team winning whereas Rodgers has had neither all season and led us too a 15-1 season.

Manning is a good QB but the people comparing him to Rodgers are deluded and im agreeing that Webster is a great player so whats your argument?

Webster doesn't still "struggle in zone a bit", he's actually become quite good at it.

You're defense got turnovers very regularly this season and have a better offensive set up for the respective QBs to work with. No doubt Rodgers out performed Eli, but I think the reason why lies a lot more with that environment than with their individual merits. Eli's not just a good QB he's a guy in that second tier below Rodgers, Peyton, Brady and Brees, but isn't far behind just like Roethlisberger and Cutler aren't. Rodgers is better, but it's close because both do things that the other just can't right now.

SuperPacker
01-13-2012, 07:00 PM
Webster doesn't still "struggle in zone a bit", he's actually become quite good at it.

You're defense got turnovers very regularly this season and have a better offensive set up for the respective QBs to work with. No doubt Rodgers out performed Eli, but I think the reason why lies a lot more with that environment than with their individual merits. Eli's not just a good QB he's a guy in that second tier below Rodgers, Peyton, Brady and Brees, but isn't far behind just like Roethlisberger and Cutler aren't. Rodgers is better, but it's close because both do things that the other just can't right now.

I just remember him getting beat by Donald Driver in the game earlier this season in the corner of the end zone. He shouldn't of let that happen.

What does Manning do that Rodgers cant?

scottyboy
01-13-2012, 07:34 PM
Webster hate? I haven't hated on Webster. Hes a great man corner, struggles in zone still a bit but still i think hes a great player.

So Manning needs a run game and a defense to get his team winning whereas Rodgers has had neither all season and led us too a 15-1 season.

Manning is a good QB but the people comparing him to Rodgers are deluded and im agreeing that Webster is a great player so whats your argument?

WHAT?!?! are you ******* kidding me?!?! I'm done, this is ludicrous. I'm not arguing rodgers or eli, I'm not, but this is the dumbest ******* thing I've probably ever read. Where was Eli "needing" the running game and D when he single handedly carried the team all season? you've got to be ******** me. The D and running game showed up in the last few games of the season, making us a more complete team and a threat in the playoffs. That's what being a good team. Eli doesn't ******* "need" them. My head literally just exploded.

SuperPacker
01-13-2012, 07:41 PM
WHAT?!?! are you ******* kidding me?!?! I'm done, this is ludicrous. I'm not arguing rodgers or eli, I'm not, but this is the dumbest ******* thing I've probably ever read. Where was Eli "needing" the running game and D when he single handedly carried the team all season? you've got to be ******** me. The D and running game showed up in the last few games of the season, making us a more complete team and a threat in the playoffs. That's what being a good team. Eli doesn't ******* "need" them. My head literally just exploded.

My point is Rodgers had no defense or rush game and took the Packers to 15-1, Eli had no defense or rush game and took the Giants too 9-7. That is a fair point aimed at the people thinking Manning is just as good or even better than Rodgers.

Mufasa
01-13-2012, 07:41 PM
Wow, Giants fans here are ridiculous homers. Eli better than Rodgers? Get the **** out of here.

SuperPacker
01-13-2012, 07:46 PM
Wow, Giants fans here are ridiculous homers. Eli better than Rodgers? Get the **** out of here.

Thank you.

Rosebud
01-13-2012, 08:23 PM
My point is Rodgers had no defense or rush game and took the Packers to 15-1, Eli had no defense or rush game and took the Giants too 9-7. That is a fair point aimed at the people thinking Manning is just as good or even better than Rodgers.

Rodgers D got a lot more turnovers than ours did, had a better OL and more receiving options with a superior offensive system to work with. Just because Both teams didn't run the ball well and had defensive issues doesn't make them comparable. For example the stats say the Patriots D was similar to both the Packers and Giants D when we can both agree the Pats D is far worse.

Again only one of us is arguing he'd take Eli over Rodgers, but Eli's not that far behind and in a comparable situation I think could do a comparable job. Rodgers moves better but Eli runs his team and reads defenses better than Rodgers does and he has a better deep ball while also being great at sliding away from the rush.

BaLLiN
01-13-2012, 11:56 PM
Wow, Giants fans here are ridiculous homers. Eli better than Rodgers? Get the **** out of here.

I never said he was better, I said Eli could be preferred in a situation to win now in a roster made out of these two teams.

Mufasa
01-14-2012, 12:06 AM
I never said he was better, I said Eli could be preferred in a situation to win now in a roster made out of these two teams.

No he couldn't. Except by Giants homers.

Giantsfan1080
01-14-2012, 12:28 AM
One Giants fan said Eli might be better than Rodgers so don't paint us all with the same brush.

BaLLiN
01-14-2012, 01:05 AM
Edit: For people reading:

Ballin

SuperPacker

Ballin

There are a lot of Pro Football Focus stats that I could bring up about our offense being the most vertical in the league, that we have the highest YIA and YAC (might be second in YAC, i'm not exactly sure but its first or second). But I am going to throw that all out because I want to focus moreso on the comparisons between them to show you they are both high caliber players. And this whole business about the system of the Packers being the reason why Rodgers is so good is debatable, but ultimately its stupid to say because we've seen what Rodgers has done.

Please no, not PFF!

Some of their stuff is worthy of using in an argument, but you can't make them your entire argument, and stats aren't always telling about a player.

Rodgers and Manning both have a lot of dropped passes from their receivers, so that shouldn't be part of this. The way the packers are set up, having a tightend with great athleticism is one things that really helps Rodgers and something that Eli hasn't had since Shockey. He stretches the defense, and this ability to make the defense cover the whole field (space) instead of just players a reason why he is having an excellent season. The Giants have had to do this in other ways. Developing this vertical threat allows for the easier completions, easier reads, and more success.

Rodgers has the better receivers yes, but Manning has a run game to rely on.

32nd in the league in rushing, Bradshaw out many games with a fractured foot, Jacobs had a ruptured/partially torn MCL and missed multiple games as well (MCL injuries aren't easy to play with, you dont feel right and it takes awhile to get back to normal). Our ypc was less than the Packers, and our OL was pretty bad with Beatty and Baas was injured. Alot of the reason for the resurgence of our run game is being healthy, Boothe being in the lineup, and defenses being worn down at the end of the season. Establishing a vertical passing game of course opens up the run too, keeps the safeties back, everyone has to take read steps, etc.

Evaluating them individually, Rodgers is much more mobily, has a quicker release, and is very accurate on throws in the middle. Eli might have a tad better armstrength, but not much, is more accurate deep and to the sideline. I have never seen two quarterbacks be this accurate and clutch downfield. Eli also is better presnap, and I am willing to prove it a million times over. He is getting to the point where in a few years, he might be as good as his brother. Rodgers does a lot of things presnap, but he isn't up to that level and the reason why this goes unnoticed is because he can extend plays with his mobility and make it a positive.

Rodgers mobility is what makes him the Elite of the Elite. If you rush him he'll just slide out he pocket and even become more accurate on the run. This makes him almost unstoppable. Eli really more accurate to the sideline? Rodgers back shoulder throws are the best in the league which is a basically unstoppable play. Not sure about pre snap but vs the Lions Rodgers called the plays in the first half and actually put more points on the board than MM. This shows a great understanding of defenses and what you need to do to beat an offense. Rodgers could easily run the offense on his own.

No doubt, Rodgers mobility definitely does put him over the top. Being mobile is not what I was aiming at, Eli has established a very good pocket presence and it has made worlds difference this year. Quarterbacks who can actually run, being a threat, become more accurate because of players having to abandon their responsibilities, time for receivers to gain separation, and getting a different angle can really make an easier throw. Back shoulder throws are more a testament to the relationship between a quarterback and receiver. The receiver makes a read on a DB, if he is a hard corner (or close to the LOS) the WR typically runs a 9 or fly and if the corner is keeping up or ahead of the receiver, the receiver then converts to a comeback or simply stops and undercuts for the ball. That is not accuracy, that's using the coverage against the DB which happens often because greenbay gets alot of simplified man coverage because of the number of weapons that they have and being forced to double or shift coverage. Please never use the Lions as an example of defense, apart from them most defenses are forced to do what i said, which allows for much easier reads by Rodgers, a run game because in man coverage the players have to turn their backs and run with receivers, and shows favorable matchups i.e. Jordy Nelson on single coverage with Alphonso Smith.

Regarding Manning, yes he is more accurate deep to the sideline. Please watch his season, he is money. He has always been pretty good on deep balls, so I'm sure you can agree with me there.

Eli throws interceptions, but god damn, these interceptions are crazy. I am not saying these are great decisions, but deflections off of players' hands, helmets, etc.? We also don't throw the ball much in the redzone, there is a reason why our offense stalls in the redzone because our playcall gets soo conservative and run oriented. Rodgers has a lot of touchdowns, very little interceptions, so statistically he's better no doubt. But we literally, DO NOT PASS IT in the redzone.

This is the main reason Manning is not in Rodgers category. Interceptions. You can talk all you want about drops and being unlucky, but its not like its just this year. The same thing happened last year. It is definitely not just luck. Rodgers just takes care of the ball. IMO the most underrated trait a QB can have. The Eagles sucked because they turned the ball over, the 49ers won because they didnt. The Bills stopped winning when they stopped turning the ball over. Dont turn the ball over and you should be alright, and thats what Rodgers does.

I agree, Manning is unlucky but alot of these throws are ill-advised. When a drop results in an interception, the quarterback is almost always not at fault. I was moreso talking about last year than this year, last year there are more than 10 interceptions that were not his fault. This is where Rodger's mobility would give him a much bigger advantage, he doesn't have to worry as much about the time he holds onto the ball because he can escape the pressure. The Eagles sucked for a number of reasons, turnovers were one, but it was alot because of that defense, playcall, and unnecessary shots downfield. The 49ers won because the eagles had turnovers yes, but a lot of the reason was because the eagles throw the ball waay too much downfield when they should be running or getting easy completions to run clock.

I don't think its a surprise, but both of these quarterback have carried their teams. Both are elite quarterbacks, both are clutch. One of them has clearly had the better statistical year, but the other has put the team on his back in a much bigger way and has become a much more veteran player. If I want to win now, I don't know who I would choose. If I want to build a team around someone, I don't think theres any question it should be Rodgers, but now I think Eli could be just as good and maybe better.

Obviously i completely disagree and i dont even think its close. To me the two main reasons are because of Rodgers mobility and the minimal amount of mistakes and interceptions he makes. If Manning was on the Packers would we of gone 15-1? No.

We don't completely disagree, I think that Rodgers is in consideration for the best quarterback in the league because of his statistics and because of his ability, but I also think that Eli is one hell of a quarterback and I might take him over Rodgers if I had to win right now.

I dont care if your ranked 32 on rushing offense. The last four games your rushing offense has been well above average and this is probably why Mannings game has improved recently.

So you don't care if we had one of the worst YPC, YPG, and total yards and both of our runningbacks sustained injuries as well as our OL, we still were a better run offense than the Packers all season? Instead you wish to say that Eli has been better these last four games than during the season and didn't ball out all season? Cool story bro.

Webster is a good player who I should of put on the list, but f****** hell! Hes not Darelle Revis.

Hold on, you just said that Williams was better than Woodson (I don't think that but ok) and then said that you would put both over Webster, and before I put Webster on my roster you completely ignored him to put Terrell Thomas. This is alarming because T2 wasn't too good in man coverage, however he is excellent in zone, and Woodson is not to be considered just a CB, but a defensive weapon because he is used in many different ways. I want to hear the reasoning behind your rankings (Williams, Woodson, Thomas).

The amount of homerism is unbelievable! You could easily argue whether Manning should of even made it to the pro bowl. Stafford had a great year which IMO was better than Mannings.

Ask anyone thats not a Giants fan who's better Rodgers or Manning and Rodgers would easily get 95% of the votes. I cant even believe im discussing this.

Im not a stats guy. But look at these.

Completion %
Rodgers-68%
Manning-61%

Yards per Attempt
Rodgers-9.25
Manning-8.38

Touchdowns
Rodgers-45
Manning-29

Interceptions
Rodgers-6
Manning-16

Passer Rating
Rodgers-122.5
Manning-92.9

Yards per Game
Rodgers-310
Manning-308

Rodgers also got sacked 8 more times.

If you are not a stats guy, then how is Stafford's year better than Mannings? How much of Stafford's yardage and touchdowns was purely from chucking it up to CJ? And that's not an exaggeration, he literally sky'ed the ball in multiple games in hopes that CJ would come down with it.

Like I said previously, and I'm sure many other people can confirm this: the giants don't pass much in the redzone. Sure we have recently had a hard on for those goalline fades, but that didn't happen most of the season. This is alot of the reason why our offense has stalled in the redzone.

I clearly said that Rodgers had the better statistical season, by far. Like Rosebud was saying, his environment is very QB friendly regarding reads, personnel, and playcall. Flynn played a terrible Lions defense, but a lot of his throws were high percentage and good playcalling. That system is very good, but it is clear that Rodgers has been superb in it because of his ability as well.

Webster hate? I haven't hated on Webster. Hes a great man corner, struggles in zone still a bit but still i think hes a great player.

So Manning needs a run game and a defense to get his team winning whereas Rodgers has had neither all season and led us too a 15-1 season.

Manning is a good QB but the people comparing him to Rodgers are deluded and im agreeing that Webster is a great player so whats your argument?

Not including him over T2 shows that you don't know much about Webster. Sure T2 is good at forcing turnovers, in zone, and in run defense, but he has been had in man coverage. Webster has been phenomenal since his reemergence in the 2007-2008 season.

Blaming Rodgers? I blame the Offensive line that had Marshall Newhouse and Evan Dietrich-Smith (two poor excuses of players) protecting him. Rodgers might be at fault for some of the sacks but he gets out of a lot of sacks because of his athleticism.

Don't disagree with this at all

I just remember him getting beat by Donald Driver in the game earlier this season in the corner of the end zone. He shouldn't of let that happen.

What does Manning do that Rodgers cant?

He got beat by Driver for four reasons. 1. Driver made a good play to come back to the front corner of the endzone. 2. Driver pushed off by pulling webster toward the back of the endzone. 3. Rodgers kept the play alive and his eyes downfield. 4. we had a 3 man rush against a very mobile quarterback.

-Presnap adjustments
-More accurate Deep throws/sideline
-Look like he has downs
-Probably better at playaction fakes
-Throw that ball to Jake Ballard(one of the slowest TE's in the NFL) in the NE game
-Clutch




My point is Rodgers had no defense or rush game and took the Packers to 15-1, Eli had no defense or rush game and took the Giants too 9-7. That is a fair point aimed at the people thinking Manning is just as good or even better than Rodgers.

Rodgers had a more productive and efficient run game than Eli did, He had a hell of a lot more turnovers by the defense which means more possessions, and his return game didn't make him start with the ball inside his own 20 most of the season. Please, don't even about special teams kickoffs, we have been terrible for as long as I can remember.

Ok, so clearly since the only variable between their team's records is the quarterback position, not the other 10 people on the field, coaches, opponents, or any other conditions? That is an asinine explanation to a point aimed at the people who would prefer Eli in a situation to win now. Stop bending my words please.

Mufasa
01-14-2012, 01:41 AM
One Giants fan said Eli might be better than Rodgers so don't paint us all with the same brush.

Fair enough.

BaLLiN
01-14-2012, 03:01 AM
No he couldn't. Except by Giants homers.

Please bless us with your godly wisdom. In the words of Deion, I believe in Eli.

SuperPacker
01-14-2012, 05:14 AM
Ballin

SuperPacker


We don't completely disagree, I think that Rodgers is in consideration for the best quarterback in the league because of his statistics and because of his ability, but I also think that Eli is one hell of a quarterback and I might take him over Rodgers if I had to win right now.

You have yet to give some good reason why.

So you don't care if we had one of the worst YPC, YPG, and total yards and both of our runningbacks sustained injuries as well as our OL, we still were a better run offense than the Packers all season? Instead you wish to say that Eli has been better these last four games than during the season and didn't ball out all season? Cool story bro.

Yeah whatever the numbers are, they both had bad defenses, both had bad run games and have both had injured offensive lines. Rodgers went 15-1 and Manning went 9-7, but you're still telling me you might rather have Manning...

Hold on, you just said that Williams was better than Woodson (I don't think that but ok) and then said that you would put both over Webster, and before I put Webster on my roster you completely ignored him to put Terrell Thomas. This is alarming because T2 wasn't too good in man coverage, however he is excellent in zone, and Woodson is not to be considered just a CB, but a defensive weapon because he is used in many different ways. I want to hear the reasoning behind your rankings (Williams, Woodson, Thomas).

What i said was, If you think Woodson is better than Webster you need to have Williams over him as well, because Williams is better than Woodson. IMO Woodson is not better than Webster, i meant to put him in and i've already said that.

If you are not a stats guy, then how is Stafford's year better than Mannings? How much of Stafford's yardage and touchdowns was purely from chucking it up to CJ? And that's not an exaggeration, he literally sky'ed the ball in multiple games in hopes that CJ would come down with it.

Like I said previously, and I'm sure many other people can confirm this: the giants don't pass much in the redzone. Sure we have recently had a hard on for those goalline fades, but that didn't happen most of the season. This is alot of the reason why our offense has stalled in the redzone.

I clearly said that Rodgers had the better statistical season, by far. Like Rosebud was saying, his environment is very QB friendly regarding reads, personnel, and playcall. Flynn played a terrible Lions defense, but a lot of his throws were high percentage and good playcalling. That system is very good, but it is clear that Rodgers has been superb in it because of his ability as well.

Its the comebacks that do it for me, and that his injury spell was reason for him throwing those 9 interceptions. Throw those 3 games away and Staffords will have been a lot more successful than Mannings.

Rodgers has to makes reads he is more than capable of making play calls and does so on a regular basis. Personnel? WR's are pretty even, Nicks = Nelson, Jennings = Cruz and Manningham = Driver. Rodgers also had one of the worst offensive lines in the NFL this season. A line of Newhouse,Dietrich-Smith,Wells, Sitton and TJ Lang is certainly not something to be proud of. So basically the difference between Rodgers great greatly superior year is a TE? C'mon you must have a better argument than that.

Not including him over T2 shows that you don't know much about Webster. Sure T2 is good at forcing turnovers, in zone, and in run defense, but he has been had in man coverage. Webster has been phenomenal since his reemergence in the 2007-2008 season.

Yeah i've already said i should have put him in.

Don't disagree with this at all

Cool beans.

He got beat by Driver for four reasons. 1. Driver made a good play to come back to the front corner of the endzone. 2. Driver pushed off by pulling webster toward the back of the endzone. 3. Rodgers kept the play alive and his eyes downfield. 4. we had a 3 man rush against a very mobile quarterback.

-Presnap adjustments
-More accurate Deep throws/sideline
-Look like he has downs
-Probably better at playaction fakes
-Throw that ball to Jake Ballard(one of the slowest TE's in the NFL) in the NE game
-Clutch


I said things Manning does that Rodgers cant. Rodgers can make pre snap ajustments, he can make accurate throws deep and too the sideline, for example the play action bomb we throw to Jordy Nelson all the time and the sideline pass in the Packers/Giants game to Nelson on the last drive. How is Rodgers not clutch? He went from the 20 yard line to the Giants 20/30 in 50 seconds. Dont give me the Skip Bayless argument because the only reason Rodgers doesnt get credit for being clutch is because he doesnt have to put his team in close situations where he needs to score to win. Rodgers is simply too good to be seen as clutch.

The other points are pretty stupid so i'll move on.

Rodgers had a more productive and efficient run game than Eli did, He had a hell of a lot more turnovers by the defense which means more possessions, and his return game didn't make him start with the ball inside his own 20 most of the season. Please, don't even about special teams kickoffs, we have been terrible for as long as I can remember.

Ok, so clearly since the only variable between their team's records is the quarterback position, not the other 10 people on the field, coaches, opponents, or any other conditions? That is an asinine explanation to a point aimed at the people who would prefer Eli in a situation to win now. Stop bending my words please.

Whatever mate. No one agrees with you, even all the other Giants fans which really says something about your argument.

10 (Characters)

J-Mike88
01-14-2012, 05:55 AM
Maybe but Burnett and Peprah are both good safties aswell. IMO a Giants/Packers team would look like this:

QB - Rodgers - Packers
RB - Bradshaw - Giants
FB - Kuhn - Packers
TE - Finley - Packers
LT - Clifton - Packers
LG - Snee - Giants
C - Wells - Packers
RG - Sitton - Packers
RT - Bulaga - Packers
WR - Jennings - Packers
WR - Cruz - Giants

DL - Matthews - Packers
DL - Pierre-Paul - Giants
DL - Tuck - Giants
DL - Raji - Packers
LB - Bishop - Packers
LB - Boley - Packers
CB - Woodson - Packers
CB - Williams - Packers
CB - Thomas - Giants
S - Collins - Packers
S - Phillips - Giants

Thats 15 Packers to 7 Giants. Obviously im being biased though.
Boley not on the Packers yet.
And Collins not on the field at all.

WCH
01-14-2012, 09:12 AM
Taking Rodgers over Eli to "win right now" seems pretty silly.

With that said, the Giants scare the living **** out of me. I was hoping for ATL, and I wouldn't be shocked to see an upset. Last night I even had a dream that the Giants scored 43 points against this defense.

I, for one, am going to stay out of a Giants vs Packers pissing match.

BaLLiN
01-14-2012, 12:00 PM
Ballin (previous comment)

SuperPacker

Ballin (new comment)

We don't completely disagree, I think that Rodgers is in consideration for the best quarterback in the league because of his statistics and because of his ability, but I also think that Eli is one hell of a quarterback and I might take him over Rodgers if I had to win right now.

You have yet to give some good reason why.

I already listed reasons. you just didn't quote them or acknowledge them.

So you don't care if we had one of the worst YPC, YPG, and total yards and both of our runningbacks sustained injuries as well as our OL, we still were a better run offense than the Packers all season? Instead you wish to say that Eli has been better these last four games than during the season and didn't ball out all season? Cool story bro.

Yeah whatever the numbers are, they both had bad defenses, both had bad run games and have both had injured offensive lines. Rodgers went 15-1 and Manning went 9-7, but you're still telling me you might rather have Manning...

Giants were ranked 32nd, averaged 3.5 per carry, 1,427 yards, 4 runs of more than 20 yards, and 6 fumbles. Packers were ranked 27th, averaged 3.9, 1,558 yards on almost 20 less attempts, and 4 fumbles. All those are relatively close, but the Giants stats are still worse. Our offensive line was and is still worse talent-wise. We haven't been a talented offensive line, but moreso because of chemistry, which they really didnt have the chance to develop with Baas and Beatty being inserted into the lineup, Baas getting injured, and musical offensive linemen ensued. If a defense bends and doesn't break, gets turnovers, and makes stops when stops are needed, that makes all the difference in the world. (Green Bay also scored 4 times on interceptions).

Hold on, you just said that Williams was better than Woodson (I don't think that but ok) and then said that you would put both over Webster, and before I put Webster on my roster you completely ignored him to put Terrell Thomas. This is alarming because T2 wasn't too good in man coverage, however he is excellent in zone, and Woodson is not to be considered just a CB, but a defensive weapon because he is used in many different ways. I want to hear the reasoning behind your rankings (Williams, Woodson, Thomas).

What i said was, If you think Woodson is better than Webster you need to have Williams over him as well, because Williams is better than Woodson. IMO Woodson is not better than Webster, i meant to put him in and i've already said that.

That's not what you said. You put both of them and thomas over webster. You changed that after you realized you didn't know anything about the Giants corners. I also really don't think Williams has played very well this year from PFF, reading, other people's opinions (J-Mike to cite someone in this discussion). Woodson maybe isn't the better pure cover corner right now, but he is the more valuable player at the position with what he is capable of (pretty much anything). Therefore Woodson and Webster would be my corners, if you want to go man to man, yes I would put Webster over Woodson but I put him above Webster because of how much he can and has done.

IMO Woodson is not better than Webster, i meant to put him in and i've already said that.

Wow. You have lost any credibility defending yourself on this. You put Woodson, Williams, and Thomas over Webster. You clearly did not mean to put him in.

If you are not a stats guy, then how is Stafford's year better than Mannings? How much of Stafford's yardage and touchdowns was purely from chucking it up to CJ? And that's not an exaggeration, he literally sky'ed the ball in multiple games in hopes that CJ would come down with it.

Like I said previously, and I'm sure many other people can confirm this: the giants don't pass much in the redzone. Sure we have recently had a hard on for those goalline fades, but that didn't happen most of the season. This is alot of the reason why our offense has stalled in the redzone.

I clearly said that Rodgers had the better statistical season, by far. Like Rosebud was saying, his environment is very QB friendly regarding reads, personnel, and playcall. Flynn played a terrible Lions defense, but a lot of his throws were high percentage and good playcalling. That system is very good, but it is clear that Rodgers has been superb in it because of his ability as well.

Its the comebacks that do it for me, and that his injury spell was reason for him throwing those 9 interceptions. Throw those 3 games away and Staffords will have been a lot more successful than Mannings.

You just dug yourself a grave. Comebacks and Eli. The comeback Stafford had against Dallas was that defense, who forced 2 interceptions that were returned for touchdowns and Calvin Johnson who caught balls that were chucked up into triple coverage. Eli has had 5 4th quarter comebacks, and the NFL record 15 touchdown passes in the 4th quarter. It makes sense because the 4th quarter seems when Eli can run the no-huddle and make his own play call. Stafford's comebacks aren't very impressive and their terrible defense actually made some stops, allowing them to get 4 field goals in the 4th quarter...yeah good job Stafford, that's all you. Despite not being a statistical guy, you base all of your argument on statistics and don't explain them...

Rodgers has to makes reads he is more than capable of making play calls and does so on a regular basis. Personnel? WR's are pretty even, Nicks = Nelson, Jennings = Cruz and Manningham = Driver. Rodgers also had one of the worst offensive lines in the NFL this season. A line of Newhouse,Dietrich-Smith,Wells, Sitton and TJ Lang is certainly not something to be proud of. So basically the difference between Rodgers great greatly superior year is a TE? C'mon you must have a better argument than that.

He makes reads, against simplified defenses a lot of the time. It's close, but Jones? Yeah we only have 3 good receiving options, and i loosely use the word good in Manningham's case, he's had production but he dropped multiple touchdowns (one would've given us the lead over San Fran with less than 2 min to go). Rodgers mobility coupled with the fact that you didn't have a worse offensive line is something to be more proud of than the Giant's situation. Basically the difference between Rodger's personnel is OLmen, TE, depth at receiver, and less complicated system that allows for easier reads, completions, and yardage.

Not including him over T2 shows that you don't know much about Webster. Sure T2 is good at forcing turnovers, in zone, and in run defense, but he has been had in man coverage. Webster has been phenomenal since his reemergence in the 2007-2008 season.

Yeah i've already said i should have put him in.

But you didnt...and are saying that Woodson and Williams are better than him still.

Don't disagree with this at all

Cool beans.

He got beat by Driver for four reasons. 1. Driver made a good play to come back to the front corner of the endzone. 2. Driver pushed off by pulling webster toward the back of the endzone. 3. Rodgers kept the play alive and his eyes downfield. 4. we had a 3 man rush against a very mobile quarterback.

-Presnap adjustments
-More accurate Deep throws/sideline
-Look like he has downs
-Probably better at playaction fakes
-Throw that ball to Jake Ballard(one of the slowest TE's in the NFL) in the NE game
-Clutch


I said things Manning does that Rodgers cant. Rodgers can make pre snap ajustments, he can make accurate throws deep and too the sideline, for example the play action bomb we throw to Jordy Nelson all the time and the sideline pass in the Packers/Giants game to Nelson on the last drive. How is Rodgers not clutch? He went from the 20 yard line to the Giants 20/30 in 50 seconds. Dont give me the Skip Bayless argument because the only reason Rodgers doesnt get credit for being clutch is because he doesnt have to put his team in close situations where he needs to score to win. Rodgers is simply too good to be seen as clutch.

Ok what can Rodgers do that Eli can't? Eli can run, he just showed it (albeit it was extremely surprising). Eli can escape pressure, avoid a sack, and make throws. If your argument is that he doesn't do it as often or as well, then I can say the same for the stuff I listed. Eli has done those things better than Rodgers.

The other points are pretty stupid so i'll move on.

Great argument.

Rodgers had a more productive and efficient run game than Eli did, He had a hell of a lot more turnovers by the defense which means more possessions, and his return game didn't make him start with the ball inside his own 20 most of the season. Please, don't even about special teams kickoffs, we have been terrible for as long as I can remember.

Ok, so clearly since the only variable between their team's records is the quarterback position, not the other 10 people on the field, coaches, opponents, or any other conditions? That is an asinine explanation to a point aimed at the people who would prefer Eli in a situation to win now. Stop bending my words please.

Whatever mate. No one agrees with you, even all the other Giants fans which really says something about your argument.

Giants fans don't disagree with me, and even if they do it shouldn't matter because an argument isnt decided by the number of followers (most of the time) but the facts and explanation. If we were like you the world would still be flat. You don't say anything about Rodgers other than he's good, he's great, etc. That, among other things you've said, really says something about your knowledge/integrity.

(10 Characters)

J-Mike88
01-14-2012, 08:57 PM
WTF? Too colorful here.... you two should just instant message or text each other.

The Giants are good, can beat anyone (except Saints in NO).

BaLLiN
01-15-2012, 02:50 AM
WTF? Too colorful here.... you two should just instant message or text each other.

The Giants are good, can beat anyone (except Saints in NO).

Mah bad. They've had our number home or away it seems, but they are an unstoppable force at home.

BaLLiN
01-17-2012, 02:21 PM
I will stand by my evaluation. Eli is definitely more clutch and accurate on deep balls and to the sideline.

robert pancake gallery
02-06-2012, 02:20 PM
can i change my vote?

J-Mike88
02-06-2012, 05:32 PM
Dammit!
See, this was the team I feared the most.....wanted them OUT of the playoffs.... but Romo couldn't hit a wide-****ing-open Miles Austin late in that game in Dallas which would have stuck a fork in the Giants season.

People need to forget about the W-L records once the playoffs start.


CONGRATS TO THE GIANTS.... a great coach, and a clutch QB in New York.
Jets vs Giants week 16, imagine a lot of people thought the Jets would win.

D-Unit
02-06-2012, 05:45 PM
Dammit!
See, this was the team I feared the most.....wanted them OUT of the playoffs.... but Romo couldn't hit a wide-****ing-open Miles Austin late in that game in Dallas which would have stuck a fork in the Giants season.

People need to forget about the W-L records once the playoffs start.


CONGRATS TO THE GIANTS.... a great coach, and a clutch QB in New York.
Jets vs Giants week 16, imagine a lot of people thought the Jets would win.
No other QB in the history of football has had as many significant mind blowing collapses as Tony Romo.

J-Mike88
02-07-2012, 04:57 PM
No other QB in the history of football has had as many significant mind blowing collapses as Tony Romo.
I'd have to agree with that, but if you are talking about in the playoffs, Farve takes the cake for sure there.
It's no wonder Romo grew up in WI watching that gunslinger whereas Brady & Rodgers grew up watching Montana & Young in the NoCal area.
Coincidences?

NY+Giants=NYG
02-07-2012, 05:20 PM
Damn this thread is colorful!