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DcmRulz
11-02-2011, 11:24 PM
I've been racking my brain around this for a bit: Who do you think are the NFL's franchise players? Before answering this question, we probably have to define what a franchise player is. I consider a franchise player as one who can make everyone around him better than they really are. I also believe that:

-Just because you win games doesn't mean you have a franchise player (and you may not need one to win a super bowl anyway)

-It's somewhat easy to tell the talent gap between a franchise player and a replacement player (See Colts, 2011-2012)

-Franchise players take time, but there usually are some signs early on that they can be that type of player, and there are times that they degrade (Franchise players seem to age REALLY SLOWLY though)

-Players can be franchise good, but true franchise players stay good (hence, why I don't have any RBs and WRs on this list [the former because of short careers, the latter because they seem to be more flash in the pan])

-Very good players can put up gaudy stats and win awards, but franchise players can make the others better (Charles Woodson's a pretty good example of this)

-Coaches...yeah...franchise players are good, no matter the coaching scheme, though good coaches help build franchise players (though I think franchise players grow into that kind anyway)

With these definitions in mind: My franchise players are:
---Peyton Manning (Never clearer than now)

---Tom Brady (Without him, they were noticeably worse, though the rest of the team was good, so is/was Cassel)

---Nick Mangold (That O-line is amazing with him, average or worse without, and the team's offense is pretty correlated there)

---Darelle Revis (Can't pass to him, Bailey and Asomugha were like this before, but the problem is that they don't necessarily mean the team is much better with them)

---Ben Roethlisberger (Maybe not as much, but he can carry that team on his back, but then again...)

---Troy Polamalu (...helps, this team is ferocious with both guys in the system)

---Ray Lewis (Tangible leader on D, as well as intangible leader. He is the voice and force of that D)

---Ed Reed (Again, not as much, but it seems that franchise Safeties appear to make the team much better than franchise CBs )

---Aaron Rodgers (That team is nigh unstoppable with him, but I can see the Cassel effect with Flynn)

---Charles Woodson (Clay Matthews might also be on this list, but Woodson makes all those other DBs look much [and actually play] better than expected)

---Leon Hall (This one might be the iffiest one, but Cincy's pass D is/has been excellent under his reign, with their DB core of castoffs who seem to be playing really well [9th in pass D this year, even without Joseph]...it's really easy to convince me to keep him up, and probably just as easy to talk me into moving him down)

---Drew Brees (Take him out, and unless Daniel is as good as a Cutler or Schaub, that team suddenly looks pretty lousy)

---Phillip Rivers (That team is bad without him, and their WR core is IMO better than they should be because of him, but even Rivers can't overcome Norv Turner, so probably iffy as well)

[B]Seem to be approaching franchise player status: (These guys I think you can easily talk into making them franchise players, as well as talk out of)
--Matt Forte (he's turning into that bears offense, can really do it all, but can he keep this up? And if he left, is Chicago still any good?)

--Calvin Johnson (Unstoppable as a WR so far, but I get the feeling Detroit is still good without him, despite not having any good WR to replace Megatron)

--Patrick Willis (With him basically tackling everything that moves, others have more freedom and play better than they should at their stage [Right, Ahmad Brooks and rookie star Aldon Smith?]

--Clay Matthews (to a lesser extent. puts up gaudy stats, but that D isn't necessarily great, and the LBs aren't necessarily playing a lot better because of him (Bishop might be good anyway))

--Logan Mankins (IMO best G in the NFL, without him, that line is pretty iffy (but they'll probably win games anyway)

--Tony Romo (Take him out, that team doesn't win that much, but he certainly doesn't make the team better by being there)

--Cameron Newton (I actually think he's on pace, as he's got some signs, but it's WAAAAAY too early to tell.)

--Larry Fitzgerald (The Jose Bautista MVP argument, they suck with him, they can suck just as badly without him, but he makes the other WRs look good)

--Jared Allen (see Larry Fitzgerald, but with DE)

--Adrian Peterson (sigh...talented, but the team isn't really that good, though frazier might be an anti-franchise coach)

--Fred Jackson (Exploded, makes the team better, but not by as much as what Fitzpatrick has done in his short time [and Buff's WR core is not great])

--LeSean McCoy (exploded this year, has everything that could work, but...I'll wait a bit longer)

--Arian Foster (Talented, Ben Tate, but also Ben Tate, and RB)

--Andre Johnson (The opposite of Fitzgerald, puts up gaudy stats, even though WRs don't seem good with him, and they do win games)

--Wes Welker (franchise WR in '07, here, I think though, that he himself is made better because Brady [and Moss then])

--David Harris (If Revis isn't a franchise player, this guy would be, makes the other LBs better [or is that Rex's doing?], but I don't think he makes as big an impact as the franchise players I listed, like Revis)

Once upon a time (or are they at least grade 2? or should I put in anti-franchise coaches, or whatever?)
-Champ Bailey (was once, seems older now, and denver is bad now)
-Nnamdi Asomugha (seems to be back, but he is pretty bad this year)
-Chris Johnson (...yeah...maybe he shouldn't have held out so long...)


Of Course, this is an open question. Make your own lists, your own opinions, talk down mine if you want. You probably have a different meaning of franchise player, let's hear what you've got!

Nikolas
11-02-2011, 11:50 PM
Romo isn't the franchise player for Dallas, it's DeMarcus Ware. For Houston, I'd say DeMeco Ryans.

V.I.P
11-02-2011, 11:54 PM
No Buccaneers?

BigBanger
11-03-2011, 02:33 AM
Haloti Ngata is missing from the franchise players list.

He's more of a franchise player than both Ravens defenders you have up there, especially at this point in all three players careers. Without Ngata that defensive front isn't nearly as dominant. Rey Lewis knows what its like to play with some big hogs in the middle that allow him to roam and make plays while unblocked. Rey had some of his worst years after Siragusa and Sam Adams left, and he was very vocal about not having the right guys up front to help take the pressure off him. Lewis is a great player, and a franchise player at that, but he's had some great defensive linemen in front of him that allow him to shoot gaps and make plays without getting blocked. Ngata is the best defensive linemen the Ravens have ever had, and he's a major reason why Rey Lewis is still playing at a Pro Bowl level.


---Drew Brees (Take him out, and unless Daniel is as good as a Cutler or Schaub, that team suddenly looks pretty lousy)
You can say this about almost every team in the NFL with a QB thats even slightly above average. It's the most important position on the football field. Obviously they would be crippled if they lost Brees. Most teams would. Brees is also a bit overrated to me. He's been getting passes for his high INT numbers for years (and he's in double digits already this year). He's really only had two special seasons in my mind ... The year he won the Super Bowl and the year the Chargers drafted Philip Rivers. Other than that? He's been a stat machine, but not much to show for it.


--Calvin Johnson (Unstoppable as a WR so far, but I get the feeling Detroit is still good without him, despite not having any good WR to replace Megatron)
I get the feeling that Detroit is barely keeping their heads above water because of two players: Matthew Stafford & Calvin Johnson.

If Calvin Johnson isn't a franchise player, then I don't think you'll find ever find one. Their defense is overrated, their offensive line sucks, they can't run the ball for **** and they have no other weapons. When teams take away Calvin Johnson, then Stafford is left forcing throws to bad or mediocre skill position players, and somehow they're still finding ways to win. Detroit has nothing but Stafford and Johnson and without one of them, I think they're 2-6 instead of 6-2. Calvin Johnson is the best WR in the NFL, and its not even close right now.

Stafford is also a franchise player. He's finally healthy, he's having a great season and all the pressure is on him since he's getting no support from his running game, offensive line or any skill position player not named Calvin Johnson. I think, right now, he is a top 5 caliber QB in the NFL.



It also seems that you completely ignored offensive tackles. Their might only be two in the NFL right now worthy of this type of praise, but Joe Thomas and Jake Long deserve to be called franchise players. Long is having the worst season of his career (he might be playing through an injury), but he's been about as dominant as offensive linemen get since he entered the NFL. D'Brickashaw Ferguson and Jordan Gross are also probably up there as well, maybe a notch below. Andrew Whitworth is very underrated, but deserves to be mentioned.

I do like seeing Mangold in there. I think he's bar none the best center in the game, and I've thought this for several years. To me, he's the most dominant player on the offensive line.


Troy Polamalu's impact to that defense is quarterback-like. When he's in there, the numbers are that of an elite defense. When he's not, the numbers are of a poor defense. I don't think there is another game changing safety on his level, maybe ever. He effects more plays in the running game then any other safety, and by a wide margin. His ability to defend the pass is also exceptional. He is the total package.

Darrelle Revis is the best CB in the game. It's not remotely close and he might be the best defensive player in the game. He's right there with Troy, Ngata and Ware.


Matt Forte might be a Top 3 RB in the NFL right now. The only thing I don't like... lack of TDs. I think he only has 2 TDs this season. If he had TD numbers, then he's challenging Adrian Peterson for best back in the NFL.

descendency
11-03-2011, 06:19 AM
Richard Seymour. He is picture is in the dictionary beside Franchise Players.

Rosebud
11-03-2011, 12:09 PM
Needs more Eli Manning,the man makes his OL look good, his OC look competent and the giants one of the most consistently successful teams over his tenure. There's a reason he calls 30-40 percent of the plays and is sogreat running the hurry up when we're behind. I want the man to become our OC after he retires, he'll I want Eli to be our OC right now.

bucfan12
11-03-2011, 12:17 PM
What about Bill Belichik as the face of the Patriots franchise? They went 11-5 without there beloved Tom Brady at QB in 2008. I think it's more Bellichik than Tom, although no doubt Tom Brady is there franchise QB

keylime_5
11-03-2011, 12:18 PM
Houston can plug just about anybody into their system and he'll put up a bunch of yards. They're the new Broncos. And why no Browns? Joe Thomas is alive ya know.

bucfan12
11-03-2011, 12:19 PM
No Buccaneers?

There all still too young. They have players like Freeman and McCoy that can grow into that role as they have talent and leadership, but they're 22 and 23 years old. Still too young of a team.

MetSox17
11-03-2011, 12:28 PM
Houston can plug just about anybody into their system and he'll put up a bunch of yards. They're the new Broncos. And why no Browns? Joe Thomas is alive ya know.

Just realized that myself. Kubiak has really done a great job with that running game, like everyone assume he would. Arian Foster, Steve Slaton, Ben Tate, just about anyone back there can rack up 100 yards a game

Thecollegedropout
11-03-2011, 01:25 PM
Revis is the best player but Nick Mangold is the most important player on the Jets.

K Train
11-03-2011, 01:38 PM
Roethlisberger is absolutely a franchise player, much more than troy imo

Gay Ork Wang
11-03-2011, 01:39 PM
prolly with the lack of TDs is: Martz doesnt run it close to the endzone. Which makes total sense goes our Oline wouldnt get a solid push if there life would depend on it.

descendency
11-03-2011, 01:40 PM
Revis is the best player but Nick Mangold is the most important player on the Jets.

From what I've seen, Revis basically won the first few Jets games this year.

cmarq83
11-03-2011, 02:56 PM
This list should not have David Harris or Wes Welker. David Harris is a good 3-4 thumping MLB, but isn't an out of this world playmaker. He's not the kind of guy who you put in as the best piece of a defense and build around. A quality player, but nowhere near a franchise player.

Wes Welker is a great player, but his role doesn't change a franchise. A slot receiver isn't the most difficult position to fill, and despite Wes being the best the Patriots could find a guy who gives them 80% of his production very easily.

kalbears13
11-03-2011, 03:13 PM
You don't have a single left tackle on that list. They're kinda important...

FuzzyGopher
11-03-2011, 04:34 PM
I've been racking my brain around this for a bit: Who do you think are the NFL's franchise players? Before answering this question, we probably have to define what a franchise player is. I consider a franchise player as one who can make everyone around him better than they reallamber's bridal (http://www.ambersbridal.com/)

Why are we all quickly skipping over this gentle-person's post? They make a valid point.

CC.SD
11-03-2011, 04:40 PM
I consider Amber's Bridal teh quintessential franchise player.

phlysac
11-03-2011, 07:43 PM
I'm trying to figure out how Patrick Willis' play has allowed for Aldon Smith to get as many sacks as he has ;P

FUNBUNCHER
11-03-2011, 09:33 PM
ALmost every team in the NFL has what they would call a 'franchise player'.
One definition in book would be if another team wanted to trade for said player, that team would be forced to give up at least a #1 pick, or at least a pro bowl caliber player in return with multiple picks to acquire that player.

DcmRulz
11-03-2011, 10:01 PM
Yeah, perhaps Ngata should be there (Suh in that 2nd class definitely), DTs...aren't my strong suit. as for the LTs, while they are important, no one seems to be so good the rest of the team/line gets better for it (Except maybe Joe Thomas now and Steve Hutchinson once upon a time)


Coaches...that's another thing entirely. Belichick is a great one...but coaches either have a good system for artificially making players look better, while still not winning/getting outcoached (and then they start playing worse once he's gone, *coughMcDanielsNorvWadecough*), or are miserable (a lot more of the latter than the former, hence the turnover so often).


Anyway, let's see what you guys have, I'm loving this so far!

Gay Ork Wang
11-03-2011, 11:03 PM
isnt hutchinson a guard?