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the new jesus
11-04-2011, 01:11 PM
These guys won't pay anybody. How has Forte not earned a contract?

They make the rest of the NFL look bad with their sheisty actions. Respect the players! Reward a guy that you drafted and has worked his tail off for your team for years now. If he's not deserving, who is?

MetSox17
11-04-2011, 01:14 PM
cool story bro

sweetness34
11-04-2011, 01:33 PM
They did give him a contract in the offseason that he turned down, so let's not act like he hasn't been offered anything. I believe it was $14 million guaranteed, but I can't remember the number of years.

ChiFan24
11-04-2011, 01:41 PM
You know who's classy? The Panthers. Paying DeAngelo Williams 5 years/$43 million even though they barely use him and there's no way he'll last the duration of the contract.

Forte turned down a reasonable offer. Now he's going to get franchised. Let's hope he can bring himself to play through the $8 million he'll get.

yo123
11-04-2011, 01:47 PM
What? If they don't want to pay him what he wants that's completely their decision.

FUNBUNCHER
11-04-2011, 01:58 PM
Poor Matt Forte.
Danny Snyder would have made you the highest paid player on the Skins.

People just don't respect RBs anymore and if you weren't drafted in the top 20 prior to the new CBA, teams IMO will milk whatever production they can and hope the wheels come off before they have to re-up.

Complex
11-04-2011, 02:06 PM
You know who's classy? The Panthers. Paying DeAngelo Williams 5 years/$43 million even though they barely use him and there's no way he'll last the duration of the contract.

Forte turned down a reasonable offer. Now he's going to get franchised. Let's hope he can bring himself to play through the $8 million he'll get.

It wasn't reasonable they were low-balling him.

rawdawg
11-04-2011, 02:18 PM
Won't pay anybody?

Made Peppers the highest paid defensive player in NFL
Briggs and Urlacher were among the highest paid LBs when they got their deals
Cutler makes a decent amount of change (over 7Mil this year)
Hester was the highest paid special teamer when he got his deal, before he was moved to be a starting WR.

Bears pay plenty.

Paul
11-04-2011, 02:32 PM
What happen to Old Jesus?

TACKLE
11-04-2011, 02:35 PM
Oh this is about Forte and not about them ******* over the Ravens on draft day.

Shane P. Hallam
11-04-2011, 02:56 PM
These guys won't pay anybody. How has Forte not earned a contract?

They make the rest of the NFL look bad with their sheisty actions. Respect the players! Reward a guy that you drafted and has worked his tail off for your team for years now. If he's not deserving, who is?

It's their business, they can run it how they want to.

fear the elf
11-04-2011, 03:06 PM
What happen to Old Jesus?

I think there's a book about it.

the new jesus
11-04-2011, 03:37 PM
It's their business, they can run it how they want to.

Yup, and they run it like scumbags

yo123
11-04-2011, 03:47 PM
You can keep living in your fantasy land where everyone gets exactly what they deserve and no one gets their feelings hurt, but the NFL is a business, and it's their own damn decision how to run it. Forte isn't entitled to anything except his current contract.

Rabscuttle
11-04-2011, 03:48 PM
Yup, and they run it like scumbags

Threatening to sit out and tank the 2012 season isn't even an option because they don't seem to care.

Ravens1991
11-04-2011, 03:54 PM
Steve Biscotti just wants his ******* 4th round pick from them lol

bucfan12
11-04-2011, 03:58 PM
I think they're being hesitant. Running Backs last 5-7 years in this league anymore at a productive rate. I think Franchising him might be the smart thing to do. You have to look at this way: Why give Matt Forte a long term deal when he might be at the top of his game for another year or two, until he becomes a guy you use to split carries with?

Look at Chris Johnson'?

A Perfect Score
11-04-2011, 04:09 PM
Oh this is about Forte and not about them ******* over the Ravens on draft day.

That's what I thought when I read the thread title.

bearsfan_51
11-04-2011, 04:20 PM
It's called the franchise tag; they're going to use it.

bigbluedefense
11-04-2011, 05:20 PM
The Bears are cheap, but I don't blame them. Paying top dollar doesn't mean you have a better product on the field.

In fact, payinig top dollar typically hurts your product on the field long term bc you overpaid some guys and now are unable to pay others as a result.

It is what it is, it's unfair to some players, but that's life. 95% of the players on every team are replacable with cheaper younger guys equal in talent (usually through the draft).

bearsfan_51
11-04-2011, 05:22 PM
Other teams that are cheap:

New England Patriots, Pittsburgh Steelers, Green Bay Packers

Rabscuttle
11-04-2011, 05:25 PM
Too bad the threat of a holdout and an 0-16 season means nothing to Angelo.

bigbluedefense
11-04-2011, 05:27 PM
Other teams that are cheap:

New England Patriots, Pittsburgh Steelers, Green Bay Packers

Most players aren't worth re-signing. That's the truth.

Only your elite talents are worth re-signing. Everybody else should be replaced through the draft. You don't overpay for role players. That's what gets you in cap hell.

I'd say even the best franchise, out of your starting 22, probably at most, a total of 8 of those guys are worth re-signing after their rookie contracts.

The rest can be replaced.

MetSox17
11-04-2011, 07:06 PM
Other teams that are cheap:

New England Patriots, Pittsburgh Steelers, Green Bay Packers

Only difference is that those teams actually field respectable teams year in and year out.

Rabscuttle
11-04-2011, 07:37 PM
Only difference is that those teams actually field respectable teams year in and year out.

Having a plan/general sense of direction seems to help. The Bears just seem so random/confused/inept.

bigbluedefense
11-04-2011, 07:45 PM
The Bears have a blueprint they follow. The problem was they gave up a bounty of picks for Cutler during a time when they needed to rebuild their roster.

So right now it's a bunch of patchwork pieces put together. But now they should have a full set of picks to rebuild their roster. The problem is by the time they rebuild it, Cutler will probably be old and the window of opportunity will be very short.

bigbluedefense
11-04-2011, 07:47 PM
Oh, and Cover 2 sucks.

jackalope
11-04-2011, 08:04 PM
Most players aren't worth re-signing. That's the truth.

Only your elite talents are worth re-signing. Everybody else should be replaced through the draft. You don't overpay for role players. That's what gets you in cap hell.

I'd say even the best franchise, out of your starting 22, probably at most, a total of 8 of those guys are worth re-signing after their rookie contracts.

The rest can be replaced.

Not really sure about that.

Key players the Packers have re-signed at least once after rookie deals: Aaron Rodgers, Donald Driver, Greg Jennings, Jordy Nelson, James Jones, Chad Clifton, Scott Wells, Josh Sitton, Tramon Williams, Nick Collins, Desmond Bishop, AJ Hawk, Mason Crosby.

That's 13, and I would say pretty much all of them were money well spent.

Key players they'll probably re-sign after their rookie deals: JerMichael Finley, Bryan Bulaga, BJ Raji, Clay Matthews, Morgan Burnett. (Outside of Finley, it's somewhat early to call on these guys. But, with the way the front office has done business in the past, I would definitely expect them to get new deals in Green Bay eventually).

That's 5, and there are others (Randall Cobb, Marshall Newhouse or Derek Sherrod, TJ Lang, James Starks, Mike Neal) that could quite possibly get extensions in the future.

Now, I can understand the Bears hesitance. Because Forte is a runningback, there is a great chance it would be a poor investment. For the most part, though, I would say drafting and retaining your talent is the best strategy. I'm not nearly as familiar with how teams like New England and Pittsburgh have done business, but Green Bay has been very successful giving guys new deals once they begin nearing the end of their rookie contracts.

ChiFan24
11-04-2011, 10:09 PM
It wasn't reasonable they were low-balling him.

Relative to other ridiculous contracts handed to other players that won't last the duration of their contracts. RB's break down. Sucks for them, but if you want a long term deal, play another position (or get drafted by the Panthers).

ChiFan24
11-04-2011, 10:17 PM
The Bears have a blueprint they follow. The problem was they gave up a bounty of picks for Cutler during a time when they needed to rebuild their roster.

So right now it's a bunch of patchwork pieces put together. But now they should have a full set of picks to rebuild their roster. The problem is by the time they rebuild it, Cutler will probably be old and the window of opportunity will be very short.

Correct, though I don't think we have to worry about Cutler getting old so much as Urlacher and co.

Oh, and Cover 2 sucks.

It's frustrating, but if you have the right players, I still think it's as good as any defense you can play. Especially nowadays; corners aren't allowed to play proper man coverage anyway; the cover 2 basically acknowledges that by not even making an attempt. Our problem at the moment is that the safeties have completely neglected their deep responsibilities, and we need another pass rusher. But last year it was pretty awesome when Danieal Manning was back there playing out of his mind and Peppers was beasting all over everyone.

XxXdragonXxX
11-04-2011, 11:06 PM
I don't know about the rest of them, but Tim Ruskell does suck.

bearsfan_51
11-04-2011, 11:37 PM
Too bad the threat of a holdout and an 0-16 season means nothing to Angelo.
Forte isn't going to holdout. He played this year for 600k, but he's not going to play next year for 8 million dollars? Yeah, ok.

bearsfan_51
11-04-2011, 11:40 PM
Only difference is that those teams actually field respectable teams year in and year out.
The Bears are 67-52 since Lovie has been coach. I'd say that's at least respectable.

bearsfan_51
11-04-2011, 11:41 PM
The Bears have a blueprint they follow. The problem was they gave up a bounty of picks for Cutler during a time when they needed to rebuild their roster.

So right now it's a bunch of patchwork pieces put together. But now they should have a full set of picks to rebuild their roster. The problem is by the time they rebuild it, Cutler will probably be old and the window of opportunity will be very short.
Cutler is 28. That's not even close to being old...

the new jesus
11-05-2011, 09:58 AM
Other teams that are cheap:

New England Patriots, Pittsburgh Steelers, Green Bay Packers

LOL how are the Packers cheap? They've rewarded so many of their players with extensions over the years. They are cheap in free agency but they reward their own players.

bearsfan_51
11-05-2011, 10:26 AM
The Bears resign a lot of their players too, but they, like the Packers, do it on their own terms.

Forte is asking for something close to 20 million guaranteed. You know who the Packers have given that much money to? Aaron Rodgers and Charles Woodson. That's it. The Bears have given that much money to Urlacher and Peppers.

Forte is much more easily, and wisely, controlled for the next two years under the franchise tag. He's a runningback. I don't see how this is even remotely hard to understand.

Brent
11-05-2011, 10:29 AM
Cutler is 28. That's not even close to being old...
Haven't you heard? 30 means your career is over.

FUNBUNCHER
11-05-2011, 12:24 PM
Forte is 26 years old, and a $20 mil guaranteed contract is a little steep. If he was 24, I wouldn't think so.
The salary cap increases every year and less money is allocated for unproven rookies. A $35 million dollar contract with $10-15 mil guaranteed IMO is a good investment for the Bears.

If they ever had a GOOD Oline and better WRs, Forte's value on the Bears would be even higher.

Thunder&Lightning
11-05-2011, 02:29 PM
forte class act, deserves better.

bearsfan_51
11-05-2011, 02:33 PM
forte class act, deserves better.
Deserves better than what? Worst-case scenario he gets the franchise tag and makes 8 million dollars next year.

ryno626
11-05-2011, 03:11 PM
Deserves better than what? Worst-case scenario he gets the franchise tag and makes 8 million dollars next year.

hard to feel sorry for the guy...

bearfan
11-05-2011, 03:24 PM
The guy just wants job security. Yeah he can get signed anywhere he wants, but I'm sure he would rather have the contract. He has been the workhorse since he joined, and I think he needs to get paid.

I really dont like the Bears playing hardball with players that mean a lot to the organization.

Borat
11-05-2011, 03:25 PM
Let me wipe away my tears. He gets to play in the NFL and also bang groupies, for a minimum of $8M next year. Poor guy.

DraftSavant
11-05-2011, 03:33 PM
Correct, though I don't think we have to worry about Cutler getting old so much as Urlacher and co.



It's frustrating, but if you have the right players, I still think it's as good as any defense you can play. Especially nowadays; corners aren't allowed to play proper man coverage anyway; the cover 2 basically acknowledges that by not even making an attempt. Our problem at the moment is that the safeties have completely neglected their deep responsibilities, and we need another pass rusher. But last year it was pretty awesome when Danieal Manning was back there playing out of his mind and Peppers was beasting all over everyone.

It's working back the other way. All the spread out quick passing attacks easily find holes in zone. The only chance you have is to play press man coverage and declare space players like Sproles or TE/WR hybrids as WRs in the offenses personnel groupings and cover them with CBs and safeties.

The Bears don't run as much Cover 2 as they used to (and they were still a pretty man heavy team during the defenses hey day in the mid-2000s). Same goes for the Jags, Bucs, Vikings and other teams people traditionally think of as soft zone Cover 2 teams.

It's the new NFL: play press man or die.

Rabscuttle
11-05-2011, 04:08 PM
Forte isn't going to holdout. He played this year for 600k, but he's not going to play next year for 8 million dollars? Yeah, ok.

Most people would take that as commentary on Angelo.

It's funny that Bears fans don't have any faith in their gm to negotiate a fair contract with a running back that won't be a burden on their cap if he is injured or his production goes down. I know their front office isn't top notch, but they could copy off the smart kids.

ChiFan24
11-05-2011, 06:17 PM
It's working back the other way. All the spread out quick passing attacks easily find holes in zone. The only chance you have is to play press man coverage and declare space players like Sproles or TE/WR hybrids as WRs in the offenses personnel groupings and cover them with CBs and safeties.

The Bears don't run as much Cover 2 as they used to (and they were still a pretty man heavy team during the defenses hey day in the mid-2000s). Same goes for the Jags, Bucs, Vikings and other teams people traditionally think of as soft zone Cover 2 teams.

It's the new NFL: play press man or die.

I still think philosophically it makes some sense in today's NFL though; I'd rather make Aaron Rodgers throw the ball 10 times on a time consuming drive and hope he eventually makes a mistake (which he actually does from time to time vs. the Bears) than get burnt by one of his dozens of weapons on one play. If the short completion is probably gonna be there anyway, I'd like to make the QB throw it into a hole and then rally to the ball.

And yeah, they don't play as much true cover 2, but there's still plenty of 2 deep and off man. For the most part, it still works for us.

themaninblack
11-05-2011, 09:13 PM
When did we let stuart scott get an SWDC account?

bearsfan_51
11-05-2011, 11:22 PM
Most people would take that as commentary on Angelo.

It's funny that Bears fans don't have any faith in their gm to negotiate a fair contract with a running back that won't be a burden on their cap if he is injured or his production goes down. I know their front office isn't top notch, but they could copy off the smart kids.
I don't even know what this means. The Bears did offer Forte a fair contract, he turned it down. He thinks he's worth 20+ million guaranteed money. I understand why because Deangelo Williams sucks, but the Panthers are actually the stupid ones.

WCH
11-06-2011, 01:55 AM
I don't follow the logic. What is their brilliant plan? He's 25 right now. Turns 26 in December. RBs play until they're about 29, unless injury gets them sooner. So, is the plan to franchise him the next two years, which would cost something like like $16 Million? Then throw some chump change ($3-6 Million, factoring in salary inflation) for the following year or two of his career, if the Bears still want him?

Unless he gets seriously hurt, they're going to pay him $20 Million over the next few years. They can do it the easy way, where everybody is happy. Or they can do it the hard way, where it becomes a locker-room distraction (even if Forte isn't trying to be a distraction, it'll be a distraction).

Zycho32
11-06-2011, 06:59 AM
The logic seems to be along the lines that Forte is asking for too much money based on being a Running Back in a league that is seeing a Passing Renaissance, and where workhorses in the Tomlinson/Holmes vein are fast becoming ancient history. Remember about a decade ago when you could see at least a half-dozen RBs in the league take the lions share of touches in their respective offenses, while at least a dozen more were unquestionably getting the majority of their team's carries?

As for the 'Easy Way', there's a reason why teams have often gone into Salary Cap Hades; it's called 'paying everybody without restraint'. Unless you have a deep capital pool like a Dan Snyder (without the itchy trigger finger, mind you), you're not forking over guaranteed money left and right. And more importantly, you're not tossing it to your RB just because a ******** team payed their RB about as much out of sheer stupidity. And not in a league that might just truly eliminate the workhorse RB in the future.

JBCX
11-06-2011, 09:02 AM
It's frustrating, but if you have the right players, I still think it's as good as any defense you can play. Especially nowadays; corners aren't allowed to play proper man coverage anyway; the cover 2 basically acknowledges that by not even making an attempt. Our problem at the moment is that the safeties have completely neglected their deep responsibilities, and we need another pass rusher. But last year it was pretty awesome when Danieal Manning was back there playing out of his mind and Peppers was beasting all over everyone.

That's the problem with Cover-2: it's great if you have 2 or more freaks of nature on the front four in their prime generating pass pressure on every snap with a four-man rush, but the minute one of those freak of nature DE/DT guys gets old, or gets injured, or leaves in free agency, your Cover-2 becomes a sieve-like defense. It's too dependant on rare, premium talent in the front four.

A more scheme-based defense such as Lebeau's fire zone blitz, or Rex Ryan's system, can weather the loss of a front-seven player more readily because it's easy to find replacement players to fit that scheme. Replacing a Julius Peppers, or a Warren Sapp, in a Cover-2 scheme, however, is a much more challenging task.

It's easier to find talented cover cornerbacks to fit a blitzing system than talented DEs and DTs who are freaks of nature who are big enough to play the run but also quick enough to rush the passer.

bearsfan_51
11-06-2011, 09:37 AM
I don't follow the logic. What is their brilliant plan? He's 25 right now. Turns 26 in December. RBs play until they're about 29, unless injury gets them sooner. So, is the plan to franchise him the next two years, which would cost something like like $16 Million? Then throw some chump change ($3-6 Million, factoring in salary inflation) for the following year or two of his career, if the Bears still want him?

Unless he gets seriously hurt, they're going to pay him $20 Million over the next few years. They can do it the easy way, where everybody is happy. Or they can do it the hard way, where it becomes a locker-room distraction (even if Forte isn't trying to be a distraction, it'll be a distraction).
Let's break this down.

You can give Forte 20 million dollars to bring him back for next year.

Or you can give him 7.7 million dollars to bring him back for next year.

Let's say Forte gets hurt, or declines, or whatever after he gets his money (cause this happens all the damn time). Under the latter scenario, you've now saved 13 million dollars. If Forte does well with his new money, you can franchise him again, and you've now spent 16 million. I don't think the Bears are honestly interested in keeping Forte past 30 anyway, and they're probably correct in that regard.

I don't think the Bears FO honestly believes in the idea of "locker-room distractions" unless you're talking about people like T.O. who, quite frankly, are just insane.

shane_man
11-10-2011, 09:22 AM
I don't know. I think adequately paying Forte back for his last few years of service where he played well beyond his contract wouldn't hurt either. I would get it if he were playing like a possessed man this year but had a history of being anonymous. But Forte has been the only consistantly good thing about the Bears offence going back before Cutler got there. Rewarding him with job security and paying him what he actually wants rather then what your offering seems like a fair tradeoff for 600k as a salary in a year where he is again going to bust through a 1000 yards.

Just seems like a little loyalty wouldn't go astray especially when you consider when he does hit the open market(if the Bears were to let that happen which wouldn't actually surprise me) they will find out that the 20 Mill guaranteed was actually a good deal for them.

Cause some dumb as hell team will in all probability pay even more for him.

Prowler
11-10-2011, 09:29 AM
I understand the front office side of things and the players. "I'm playing by the rules and saving money" vs "Slavery, that guy's making more than me and you can cut me at any time".

I wonder if front offices should just hand out bonuses without using a contract.

"I'm not going to give you a contract, but here's a one time gift of $5million to S-T-F-U and take it."

The owners win by saving money and not committing to potential decline, and the player gets a little "respect" money.