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View Full Version : Why Isn't Anybody Talking about Montee Ball?


jbooshey
11-05-2011, 05:26 PM
Seriously...Montee Ball was/is not in the conversation for the Heisman and he isn't being talked about by any of the draftniks. Montee needs some love too. he is the best Badger running back pro prospect that I can remember. Does he lose consideration for being a top back because he plays for UW, who hasn't had much success at the pro level at the running back position? I think Montee is going to make some team very, very happy. He is incredible and very versatile.

princefielder28
11-05-2011, 05:51 PM
Montee has been spectacular this season and he's really as complete of a back as you'll see...he's got speed (not blazing but he's quick), runs physically, and can be a receiver out of the backfield...he's the best Badgers back as far as a pro prospect since Brian Calhoun

jbooshey
11-05-2011, 05:55 PM
Montee has been spectacular this season and he's really as complete of a back as you'll see...he's got speed (not blazing but he's quick), runs physically, and can be a receiver out of the backfield...he's the best Badgers back as far as a pro prospect since Brian Calhoun

I was saying the same thing...but I've changed my mind. He is a better back pro prospect than Calhoun at this point. Calhoun was the one year wonder...Ball has proven to be plenty durable being the main guy for a year and a half. Also, Ball is bigger and has proven to be more of a breakaway threat than Calhoun even though Calhoun had better speed.

princefielder28
11-05-2011, 05:58 PM
I was saying the same thing...but I've changed my mind. He is a better back pro prospect than Calhoun at this point. Calhoun was the one year wonder...Ball has proven to be plenty durable being the main guy for a year and a half. Also, Ball is bigger and has proven to be more of a breakaway threat than Calhoun even though Calhoun had better speed.

I agree with you that he's better than Calhoun...just making the point that in terms of seeing a Badger that has some true pro potential, the school has produced one worth talking about since Calhoun and Ball certainly trumps him

Duffman57
11-05-2011, 06:02 PM
THe biggest problem i see is that I could run through the holes his OL are giving him. That shouldn't be a knock on him, but more a cautionary tale. He's got what you look for, but how much of that is his OL making him look really good.

princefielder28
11-05-2011, 06:13 PM
THe biggest problem i see is that I could run through the holes his OL are giving him. That shouldn't be a knock on him, but more a cautionary tale. He's got what you look for, but how much of that is his OL making him look really good.

I think that's a lazy argument...the Badgers line is good but they've had their struggles from time to time, especially with replacing Carimi and Moffitt on that left side...the line does open up holes, no doubt, but you watch someone like Ball run as opposed to his teammate James White, as an example, and you appreciate everything Ball can do.

jbooshey
11-05-2011, 07:04 PM
I think that's a lazy argument...the Badgers line is good but they've had their struggles from time to time, especially with replacing Carimi and Moffitt on that left side...the line does open up holes, no doubt, but you watch someone like Ball run as opposed to his teammate James White, as an example, and you appreciate everything Ball can do.

The perfect counter...Ball sees the hole and he hits it, but that isn't the end of his runs...he can make cuts, throw a stiff arm and high step through arm tackles. James White is a talented back in his own right, but watching Montee and him split carries, it makes you take notice of how good Montee really is.

Ozzy
11-06-2011, 06:54 AM
Because name the last successful back in the NFL from Wisconsin.


Who Michael Bennett? Hardly, guys like Anthony Davis, Brian Calhoun, Ron Dayne, John Clay all have not had success at the next level, and few Wisconsin backs if any have had success. Thus clearly, most of it has to do with the offensive line they run behind, not so much them as a runner.

jbooshey
11-06-2011, 08:55 PM
Because name the last successful back in the NFL from Wisconsin.


Who Michael Bennett? Hardly, guys like Anthony Davis, Brian Calhoun, Ron Dayne, John Clay all have not had success at the next level, and few Wisconsin backs if any have had success. Thus clearly, most of it has to do with the offensive line they run behind, not so much them as a runner.



Anthony Davis and Calhoun although different in quality...both had injury problems.

Ron Dayne was drafted by the wrong team and he actually had a solid career...it just wasn't what it could have been. I hope the Giants stop drafting Badgers starting this year.

John Clay lacks a work ethic and seeing as how he was undrafted (PJ Hill as well)...I'm not sure there were any pro expectations anyway.

Again...I'm not going to be the guy who doesn't draft Aaron Rodgers because Tedford QB's don't make good pros. If I see a player I like (Montee Ball)...I'm going to draft him regardless of the system he plays for.

Iamcanadian
11-07-2011, 12:09 AM
He'll have to show in the post season that he has the speed and shiftiness to play at the next level. Wisconsin's offensive system is going to make a RB look better than he really is, so we will only be able to judge his talent level in the post season when he is away from that system and competing on an equal basis with the other backs in the draft.

yo123
11-07-2011, 12:13 AM
I'm trying so hard to understand the first sentence of your post.

keylime_5
11-07-2011, 12:17 AM
I'm sure Ball will be an okay prospect and drafted somewhere decent, but his stats are very very very inflated in Wisconsin's system. It makes it very hard to scout just how good he can really be.

WCH
11-07-2011, 07:02 AM
Because name the last successful back in the NFL from Wisconsin.


Who Michael Bennett? Hardly, guys like Anthony Davis, Brian Calhoun, Ron Dayne, John Clay all have not had success at the next level, and few Wisconsin backs if any have had success. Thus clearly, most of it has to do with the offensive line they run behind, not so much them as a runner.

It's not just Wisconsin. Things seem to be improving in the past five years, but the entire Big 10 has produced overrated RBs for the past 20 years or so. tOSU has had the most success (Eddie George, Robert Smith).

rawdawg
11-07-2011, 07:10 AM
I don't think Ball is anything special, at least not to the point to be considered one of the elite RB prospects. He's the same size as Lamar Miller, who has a good .12 seconds over him in speed. Not as big or as shifty as Trent Richardson. Nowhere near as fast as LaMichael James or David Wilson. I even think Polk, Gray and Martin bring more to the table than Ball. Martin has a lower center of gravity. Polk is better all around as an athlete. Gray, I admit I seem to like more than most, but I think he's a notch faster and shiftier than Ball.

Menardo75
11-07-2011, 10:49 AM
I like both Ball and James White. I wouldn't be surprised to see Ball go early to mid second, and White in the mid-rounds.

iowatreat54
11-07-2011, 12:49 PM
I like both Ball and James White. I wouldn't be surprised to see Ball go early to mid second, and White in the mid-rounds.

White is a true soph, so he won't come out until at least after next year. Unless he has a phenominal year, which isn't very likely given what Wisconsin loses on that offense, he probably isn't out until the 2013 draft.

I think White has the potential to be the best pro back out of the recent string of Wisconsin backs (not saying much), but that includes Montee Ball.

princefielder28
11-07-2011, 01:29 PM
I don't think Ball is anything special, at least not to the point to be considered one of the elite RB prospects. He's the same size as Lamar Miller, who has a good .12 seconds over him in speed. Not as big or as shifty as Trent Richardson. Nowhere near as fast as LaMichael James or David Wilson. I even think Polk, Gray and Martin bring more to the table than Ball. Martin has a lower center of gravity. Polk is better all around as an athlete. Gray, I admit I seem to like more than most, but I think he's a notch faster and shiftier than Ball.

so you're rationale for dropping Ball is that he's not as good as Trent Richardson and he's not as fast as the guys who rely on their speed? Ball is strong after contact, hits the holes hard, and is more quick than he is fast, which makes him as complete a back as you'll find in this draft (potentially) for a back not named Richardson.

White is a true soph, so he won't come out until at least after next year. Unless he has a phenominal year, which isn't very likely given what Wisconsin loses on that offense, he probably isn't out until the 2013 draft.

I think White has the potential to be the best pro back out of the recent string of Wisconsin backs (not saying much), but that includes Montee Ball.

White has not progressed this year and he's not built enough to take on the demands of the NFL. He's well below Ball in terms of being a pro prospect.

iowatreat54
11-07-2011, 04:45 PM
so you're rationale for dropping Ball is that he's not as good as Trent Richardson and he's not as fast as the guys who rely on their speed? Ball is strong after contact, hits the holes hard, and is more quick than he is fast, which makes him as complete a back as you'll find in this draft (potentially) for a back not named Richardson.



White has not progressed this year and he's not built enough to take on the demands of the NFL. He's well below Ball in terms of being a pro prospect.

Granted I haven't watched a lot of White this season and I don't believe a lot has been asked of him, but I really don't think you can judge much from a kid that's played 1.5 seasons of college ball. A lot of players hit a wall their 2nd year, which may or may not be what's happening to White. He had a phenominal frosh year and now a subpar soph year.

I think it's unfair to compare the two at this point as pro prospects. Obviously Ball is the better prospect right now. I just thought from what I saw last year and some this year, White has the potential to be a better prospect when he comes out, that's all.

But who knows if the Badger offense and OL are the reason behind him having a good frosh year, and Ball having a great season this year. That's the problem, which others mentioned, with evaluating a Wisconsin RB.

Menardo75
11-07-2011, 06:44 PM
White is a true soph, so he won't come out until at least after next year. Unless he has a phenominal year, which isn't very likely given what Wisconsin loses on that offense, he probably isn't out until the 2013 draft.

I think White has the potential to be the best pro back out of the recent string of Wisconsin backs (not saying much), but that includes Montee Ball.

I wasn't trying to say that White will go pro this year. Just saying that I like both of them and where I think they'll go when they go pro.

rawdawg
11-07-2011, 07:02 PM
so you're rationale for dropping Ball is that he's not as good as Trent Richardson and he's not as fast as the guys who rely on their speed? Ball is strong after contact, hits the holes hard, and is more quick than he is fast, which makes him as complete a back as you'll find in this draft (potentially) for a back not named Richardson.



Yes. Isn't that kind of the point of this whole thread? The questions asks why isn't anybody talking about Montee Ball. The point of my answer was to answer why I and others are probably not talking about him as much as some think we should. Guys like Ball are a dime a dozen. Every RB runs hard, hits holes hard and doesn't like to go down easily. To separate from the middle of the pack, I think you have to have either speed or the ability to make people miss. I think he's a notch below every guy I named.

thegreatone
11-07-2011, 07:02 PM
What round do you see him getting drafted?

PossibleCabbage
11-07-2011, 07:46 PM
I sincerely don't see him coming out this year, he has an additional year of eligibility and I think he'll use it.

jbooshey
11-08-2011, 07:28 AM
Yes. Isn't that kind of the point of this whole thread? The questions asks why isn't anybody talking about Montee Ball. The point of my answer was to answer why I and others are probably not talking about him as much as some think we should. Guys like Ball are a dime a dozen. Every RB runs hard, hits holes hard and doesn't like to go down easily. To separate from the middle of the pack, I think you have to have either speed or the ability to make people miss. I think he's a notch below every guy I named.

Doesn't running through tackles count as making guys miss? Because if you include that (which you should) then Ball does that on almost every single run. He is fast enough for the NFL and he has more than enough power and enough agility to be effective in any setting. You need to actually watch the guy run.

rawdawg
11-08-2011, 06:34 PM
Doesn't running through tackles count as making guys miss? Because if you include that (which you should) then Ball does that on almost every single run. He is fast enough for the NFL and he has more than enough power and enough agility to be effective in any setting. You need to actually watch the guy run.

So, because I disagree with you I haven't seen him run? He runs thru college players. He's not running thru tackles with Ray Lewis, Brian Urlacher, or Patrick Willis. Not saying he can't or that those guys never miss a tackle, but the fact is guys who run through tackles don't last as long as guys who makes tacklers miss. And guys who are 5'10", 215lbs like Ball definitely don't last that long running in that style.

jbooshey
11-09-2011, 07:48 AM
So, because I disagree with you I haven't seen him run? He runs thru college players. He's not running thru tackles with Ray Lewis, Brian Urlacher, or Patrick Willis. Not saying he can't or that those guys never miss a tackle, but the fact is guys who run through tackles don't last as long as guys who makes tacklers miss. And guys who are 5'10", 215lbs like Ball definitely don't last that long running in that style.

So because Urlacher, Willis and Lewis don't play college football...Montee Ball can't prove himself? How in the world do scouts project any college player to play in the pro game? I have no doubt in my mind that Ball in a game situation could make any player miss a tackle. Inferior backs at the pro level do it...it isn't Ball's fault he isn't in the pros yet. He has done everything he can at his current level and that includes staying healthy.

rawdawg
11-09-2011, 08:23 PM
So because Urlacher, Willis and Lewis don't play college football...Montee Ball can't prove himself? How in the world do scouts project any college player to play in the pro game? I have no doubt in my mind that Ball in a game situation could make any player miss a tackle. Inferior backs at the pro level do it...it isn't Ball's fault he isn't in the pros yet. He has done everything he can at his current level and that includes staying healthy.

Yeah, you kinda missed the point.

the fact is guys who run through tackles don't last as long as guys who makes tacklers miss. And guys who are 5'10", 215lbs like Ball definitely don't last that long running in that style.

jbooshey
11-10-2011, 07:31 AM
Yeah, you kinda missed the point.

the fact is guys who run through tackles don't last as long as guys who makes tacklers miss. And guys who are 5'10", 215lbs like Ball definitely don't last that long running in that style.

You made more than one point...I touched on one of them and proved you wrong...now you are reaching on your other point. Guys like Ball have lasted in the league and guys like Ball have not. It is the RB position in general where a lot of careers end early and quickly regardless of running style.

umphrey
11-10-2011, 12:48 PM
Montee Ball = quality backup.

Comparison: Brandon Jackson maybe? Thomas Jones?

I'd start looking at him in the 4th or 5th round. He's kind of a low upside, safe pick. If you have a good line and you want someone that can read and follow blocks, he's a perfect fit. That doesn't make him real desirable, but there are a lot of RBs that can't do that, especially fresh out of college.

I do like him more than any Wisky RB prospect in several years. I think he'll be around for 5-8 years probably as a 2 or a 3. Comparing him to past Wisky RBs isn't fair though because pretty much every RB prospect they've had has been a 260 lb workhorse that they pounded in college and wasn't built for the NFL at all. Ball is listed at 5'11" 215, pretty close to ideal size for the NFL now.

It's just hard for me to get excited about him in the NFL because for a starter I look for more dominance in college (he's more reliable than dominant) and as a part time back I want him to do one thing really well (speed, catching, power, etc.). He's more of an all around solid back. He probably profiles as a backup starter (he doesn't really get carries but if the #1 is hurt/injured he gets the lion's share) and possibly a 3rd down blocker that can run some draws occasionally.

jbooshey
11-11-2011, 05:57 PM
Montee Ball = quality backup.

Comparison: Brandon Jackson maybe? Thomas Jones?

I'd start looking at him in the 4th or 5th round. He's kind of a low upside, safe pick. If you have a good line and you want someone that can read and follow blocks, he's a perfect fit. That doesn't make him real desirable, but there are a lot of RBs that can't do that, especially fresh out of college.

I do like him more than any Wisky RB prospect in several years. I think he'll be around for 5-8 years probably as a 2 or a 3. Comparing him to past Wisky RBs isn't fair though because pretty much every RB prospect they've had has been a 260 lb workhorse that they pounded in college and wasn't built for the NFL at all. Ball is listed at 5'11" 215, pretty close to ideal size for the NFL now.

It's just hard for me to get excited about him in the NFL because for a starter I look for more dominance in college (he's more reliable than dominant) and as a part time back I want him to do one thing really well (speed, catching, power, etc.). He's more of an all around solid back. He probably profiles as a backup starter (he doesn't really get carries but if the #1 is hurt/injured he gets the lion's share) and possibly a 3rd down blocker that can run some draws occasionally.


There are so many things, I find difficult to agree with in your post. The first being a comparison of Ball to Brandon Jackson...Brandon Jackson has been in the league for many years and still is looking to break his first tackle. Ball will break a tackle in game one...probably carry one of his NFL career.

The second thing is calling Thomas Jones a quality backup...if Ball could have Jones' career I bet he'd take it without hesitation. Jones had 5 straight 1000 yd seasons and missed a 6th by 52 yards. Jones has been way more than a "quality backup" in his career.

Third...yes there are a lot of running backs who can follow blocks...if that is all you see in Ball, then you just aren't watching Ball with your eyes open.

Fourth...260lbs workhorse??? Brent Moss, Terrell Fletcher, Aaron Stecker, Anthony Davis, Brian Calhoun...none fit this category. Ron Dayne...yes...John Clay...yes...PJ Hill...not really, but close enough....not even close to "every RB prospect" though.

Fifth...more reliable than dominant????!?!?!?!?!?!?!?! Ball had 18 Tds as a back who was a third stringer for the 1st half of last season. This season he is on pace to break the Big 10 record for Tds in a single season. He is on pace for 1500yds this season. He is averaging 6.6ypc. He is averaging 17.6 yards per catch!!!! He is DOMINATING so far and if that is only reliable to you than your standards are out of control.

I'm not trying to be a jerk here, but it is just that I disagree essentially with your entire post. I'm just so surprised because you have a Montee Ball picture or avatar or whatever it is called.

princefielder28
11-12-2011, 05:40 PM
Montee Ball set the all time single season Big Ten record for TDs in a season with his 27th score...that is something special

EvilMonkey
11-12-2011, 06:27 PM
Because name the last successful back in the NFL from Wisconsin.


Who Michael Bennett? Hardly, guys like Anthony Davis, Brian Calhoun, Ron Dayne, John Clay all have not had success at the next level, and few Wisconsin backs if any have had success. Thus clearly, most of it has to do with the offensive line they run behind, not so much them as a runner.

this is seriously the dumbest argument. Evaluate the player, not stupid college circumstances that really don't matter at all.

Aaron Rodgers was clearly not gonna be a good NFL QB because his college coach was Tedford and the previous ones all didn't pan out. Oh wait....

jbooshey
11-13-2011, 08:57 AM
Montee Ball set the all time single season Big Ten record for TDs in a season with his 27th score...that is something special

If UW plays in the conference championship and then add on the bowl game...Ball is going to be challenging Barry Sanders' all-time single season rushing TD record.

WCH
11-27-2011, 02:24 AM
If UW plays in the conference championship and then add on the bowl game...Ball is going to be challenging Barry Sanders' all-time single season rushing TD record.

Bumping this thread.

Ball has 34 TDs, and is only 5 shy of Barry's record. Sanders set the mark in only 11 games; but still, that's a record that I didn't think I would ever see get broken. Ball already broke Ki-Jana Carter's Big-10 record, and Carter was a #1 overall pick.

I have some concerns about Ball as an NFL prospect, but he's having a heck of a season for Wisconsin.

FUNBUNCHER
11-27-2011, 08:09 AM
When I look at Montee Ball I just don't really know what player I'm seeing.
Physically standing still, since he's lost 35# Ball looks like Matt Forte/Evan Royster.

But as a pro prospect IMO he's closer to Royster than Forte; decent RB who lacks burst or outstanding lateral quickness.

I think Montee Ball has maxed out his athletic ability because even at a significantly reduced weight his athleticism looks only average for the position.

Let's not kid ourselves, Wisconsin's Oline is the gem of that program. Those big uglies get more blocking done at the second level of a defense than almost any Oline in the country. That's why the Badgers can recruit almost any good to decent HS RB and make him look like an AA in college.

Ball just has a lot to prove to me at the next level and unless he does something freakish( for him) at the combine, IMO Bell is just a mid round pick at best.

John Clay and PJ Hill looked like beasts in college. I don't see Montee Ball doing anything much different than either one of them did, unfortunately.

BTW, if Lamar Miller is only .12 seconds faster than Ball, Montee has sub 4.5 speed.
I don't think Ball is that fast.

jbooshey
11-27-2011, 08:49 AM
When I look at Montee Ball I just don't really know what player I'm seeing.
Physically standing still, since he's lost 35# Ball looks like Matt Forte/Evan Royster.

But as a pro prospect IMO he's closer to Royster than Forte; decent RB who lacks burst or outstanding lateral quickness.

I think Montee Ball has maxed out his athletic ability because even at a significantly reduced weight his athleticism looks only average for the position.

Let's not kid ourselves, Wisconsin's Oline is the gem of that program. Those big uglies get more blocking done at the second level of a defense than almost any Oline in the country. That's why the Badgers can recruit almost any good to decent HS RB and make him look like an AA in college.

Ball just has a lot to prove to me at the next level and unless he does something freakish( for him) at the combine, IMO Bell is just a mid round pick at best.

John Clay and PJ Hill looked like beasts in college. I don't see Montee Ball doing anything much different than either one of them did, unfortunately.

BTW, if Lamar Miller is only .12 seconds faster than Ball, Montee has sub 4.5 speed.
I don't think Ball is that fast.


Sigh...again...so much wrong in this post.

First of all...he didn't lose #35...not sure where you got that from. He lost somewhere around 20lbs and it has done wonders for him.

Lacks burst and lateral quickness????!?!?!! Did you watch yesterday's game at all? His burst and lateral quickness were present and obvious even to blind people.

You are right about the o-line...however Montee Ball set TD records for the state of Missouri in high school...I think he had 44 as a senior or somewhere there about...he definitely wasn't "a decent HS RB" and that is why he is having the best season of any Big 10 running back ever.

Ball may be a mid round pick, but I guarantee you he would outplay that draft spot.

John Clay and PJ Hill didn't look as good as Ball does this season at any point in their careers. And this is coming from a guy who was as big a Clay backer as there was...until it become too obvious how lazy he was anyways.

Ball is going to surprise so many people on this forum it is crazy...he is having the most underrated and under appreciated season of any football player that I have seen.

HakeemtheMachine
11-27-2011, 09:18 AM
Bumping this thread.

Ball has 34 TDs, and is only 5 shy of Barry's record. Sanders set the mark in only 11 games; but still, that's a record that I didn't think I would ever see get broken. Ball already broke Ki-Jana Carter's Big-10 record, and Carter was a #1 overall pick.

I have some concerns about Ball as an NFL prospect, but he's having a heck of a season for Wisconsin.
And Carter was a Gigantic bust

cmarq83
11-27-2011, 09:53 AM
I like Montee Ball. He actually reminds me a lot of Mark Ingram, just an average athlete for the position, but does a lot of underrated things. He has good vision, keeps his feet moving on contact, is better at blocking than most collegiate running backs, and is a competent receiver out of the backfield. He certainly benefits from running behind that Wisconsin offensive line, but he's really nothing like PJ Hill or Ron Dayne. He has enough of a burst that he'll be able to cutback and pick up the extra 15 yards that good running backs can get behind good blocking. He's not an elite enough athlete to break it on the regular like Charles or CJ2K do, but he's certainly in line with a good majority of NFL running backs in terms of athleticism.

I'd say he'll probably be in the late 2nd-early 4th round range when it's all said and done.

DeathbyStat
11-27-2011, 09:57 AM
Second round pick

JBCX
11-27-2011, 10:54 AM
He runs behind the best offensive line in the country. My grandmother would have looked good running through those holes.

princefielder28
11-27-2011, 11:32 AM
He runs behind the best offensive line in the country. My grandmother would have looked good running through those holes.

Care to explain why James White has not been the same back as last year, or even improved, if the Badgers line is so good? I'm not saying the unit isn't good because it clearly is, but don't dismiss Ball's abilities because of the line in front of him (which does have issues at times moreso the left side)

FUNBUNCHER
11-27-2011, 11:42 AM
Both PJ Hill and John Clay ran for over 1500 yards and 15 + TDs their final seasons playing for Wisconsin.

WHat Montee Ball is doing besides his TD scores isn't off the charts for the Badgers program.

WCH
11-27-2011, 11:45 AM
Both PJ Hill and John Clay ran for over 1500 yards and 15 + TDs their final seasons playing for Wisconsin.

WHat Montee Ball is doing besides his TD scores isn't off the charts for the Badgers program.

It's tempting to agree, but that's still a fairly significant "besides." The truth is that he's scoring at a higher rate, with a higher YPC than those guys.

If he impresses at the combine, I agree with others in thinking that he could go in round 2.

WCH
11-27-2011, 11:47 AM
And Carter was a Gigantic bust

That's because he immediately blew out his knee at a time when that was still pretty much a career ending injury. Context.

I never compared the two as prospects, anyway. Carter was clearly a much better prospect.

Disclosure: I'm a Michigan fan, so I don't have a vested interest in either player or school.

DraftSavant
11-27-2011, 11:52 AM
When I look at Montee Ball I just don't really know what player I'm seeing.
Physically standing still, since he's lost 35# Ball looks like Matt Forte/Evan Royster.

But as a pro prospect IMO he's closer to Royster than Forte; decent RB who lacks burst or outstanding lateral quickness.

I think Montee Ball has maxed out his athletic ability because even at a significantly reduced weight his athleticism looks only average for the position.

Let's not kid ourselves, Wisconsin's Oline is the gem of that program. Those big uglies get more blocking done at the second level of a defense than almost any Oline in the country. That's why the Badgers can recruit almost any good to decent HS RB and make him look like an AA in college.

Ball just has a lot to prove to me at the next level and unless he does something freakish( for him) at the combine, IMO Bell is just a mid round pick at best.

John Clay and PJ Hill looked like beasts in college. I don't see Montee Ball doing anything much different than either one of them did, unfortunately.

BTW, if Lamar Miller is only .12 seconds faster than Ball, Montee has sub 4.5 speed.
I don't think Ball is that fast.

Yeah, Forte is one of the most athletic big backs in the entire league. His running style is eerily reminiscent of Fred Taylor's - big, athletic slashers who really screw with second and third level defenders' pursuit angles. I just don't see Ball ever having that kind of ability in the NFL.

princefielder28
11-27-2011, 11:52 AM
Both PJ Hill and John Clay ran for over 1500 yards and 15 + TDs their final seasons playing for Wisconsin.

WHat Montee Ball is doing besides his TD scores isn't off the charts for the Badgers program.

Ball is a completely different player than those two. Hill and Clay were striclty north-south guys who beat you by wearing you down. Ball is more elusive and does a great job of finding the hole and picking yards up; he's also a receving threat out of the backfield too.

Weeze
11-28-2011, 05:02 AM
My cousin played with Montee in high school so i have seen a lot of him. Even back then, his offensive line was ridiculously stacked(2 all staters and a 5-star all american). I remember a game his senior year against st. charles west where Montee had 15ish carries and 250+ yards and 5 td's in the first half. He ripped off a 55 yard td on the first play of the second half and sat the rest of the game. He broke maybe 5 tackles during the game because of his blocking. Montee is a great talent in my opinion and i hope he has success at the next level, but his supporting cast has been nothing short of phenomenal to this point in his career. There isn't a team in the NFL that is anywhere close to as dominant up front as to what he's used to.

As great as his numbers are and how talented he appears to be, I think there could be a very large roadblock for him in the NFL. He has never been behind an O-line that doesn't dominant every single play. He was only a 3-star player in high school because despite having over 7,000 rushing yards and 90+ td's during his career, he was never touched because his O-line was making holes you could drive a tank through. In high school though his blocking was mediocre and he was a poor receiver out of the backfield. He obviously has made immense improvements there. With all of that said, unless he has a spectacular combine, I wouldn't use a pick on him before fourth round, simply because it's difficult to know how good he actually is without ever having to face a defense that his offensive line couldn't handle.

Iamcanadian
11-28-2011, 03:45 PM
It's tempting to agree, but that's still a fairly significant "besides." The truth is that he's scoring at a higher rate, with a higher YPC than those guys.

If he impresses at the combine, I agree with others in thinking that he could go in round 2.

Those guys didn't have a QB like Wilson throwing and running the ball to take the pressure off of Montee.
To be fair to Ball, his fate will be decided at the combine when he runs his 40 and does the other tests. We all need to see him away from that Wisconsin system to see how he performs when matched up against the other RB's in this year's draft. He could well surprise us all and be outstanding as we are only judging him now on how he plays in his team's system.
There is no use writing him off or claiming that he will be special based on his college season because when you play RB for Wisconsin, you are going to appear to be great whether you are or not.
I suspect he will disappoint his followers but I could be dead wrong, only the post season will tell.

needled24_7
11-29-2011, 03:58 AM
shaun alexander lite?

jbooshey
11-29-2011, 07:36 AM
Both PJ Hill and John Clay ran for over 1500 yards and 15 + TDs their final seasons playing for Wisconsin.

WHat Montee Ball is doing besides his TD scores isn't off the charts for the Badgers program.

So if I take John Clay's best TD season (18) and PJ Hill's best TD season (15) and add them together (33)... and then take Montee's season IN PROGRESS WITH 2 GAMES TO GO and add his total TD amount (34)...then I project his pace to 40 TD's...and then I look at you as if you are a total nut job for not thinking Ball has done anything special in regards to backs like Clay and Hill.

Also...without looking it up...it is probably safe to assume that Ball has more receiving yards this year then Clay and Hill had in their combined seasons.

Also part II...Ball's TD pass this year won't count for some reason towards his TD total.

Weeze
11-29-2011, 08:47 AM
So if I take John Clay's best TD season (18) and PJ Hill's best TD season (15) and add them together (33)... and then take Montee's season IN PROGRESS WITH 2 GAMES TO GO and add his total TD amount (34)...then I project his pace to 40 TD's...and then I look at you as if you are a total nut job for not thinking Ball has done anything special in regards to backs like Clay and Hill.

Also...without looking it up...it is probably safe to assume that Ball has more receiving yards this year then Clay and Hill had in their combined seasons.

Also part II...Ball's TD pass this year won't count for some reason towards his TD total.

With that said, let's take a look at last year. John Clay had 14 scores while pretty much sitting out half of the season. even while he was healthy, he still split carries with montee and james white. the two of them combined for 32 scores, for a grand total of 46 rushing touchdowns. Another thing to note, instead of splitting carries, montee has had an overwhelming amount of the bulk of the carries compared to Clay. I think it's safe to say that if they would have utilized John Clay last year like they are utilizing montee this year, barring Clay's injury of course, Clay's stats would be comparable to the numbers that montee is putting up this year, when he only had a 13 game season to do it in.

FUNBUNCHER
11-29-2011, 09:01 AM
So if I take John Clay's best TD season (18) and PJ Hill's best TD season (15) and add them together (33)... and then take Montee's season IN PROGRESS WITH 2 GAMES TO GO and add his total TD amount (34)...then I project his pace to 40 TD's...and then I look at you as if you are a total nut job for not thinking Ball has done anything special in regards to backs like Clay and Hill.

Also...without looking it up...it is probably safe to assume that Ball has more receiving yards this year then Clay and Hill had in their combined seasons.

Also part II...Ball's TD pass this year won't count for some reason towards his TD total.

What I said..."WHat Montee Ball is doing besides his TD scores isn't off the charts for the Badgers program."

I'm referring to his rushing yards. It's hard to extrapolate rushing TDs exclusively for a RB prospect to the next level.

Ball has 29 rushing TDs, but only 1622 yards rushing. So I would assume those scores are mostly short runs and not of the 25+ yards variety.
Most college backs with over 25 TDs rushing in a season have rushed for over 2K.

The only thing his TDs mean to me is that in the redzone Ball has a nose for the goal line.

prock
11-29-2011, 09:58 AM
What I said..."WHat Montee Ball is doing besides his TD scores isn't off the charts for the Badgers program."

I'm referring to his rushing yards. It's hard to extrapolate rushing TDs exclusively for a RB prospect to the next level.

Ball has 29 rushing TDs, but only 1622 yards rushing. So I would assume those scores are mostly short runs and not of the 25+ yards variety.
Most college backs with over 25 TDs rushing in a season have rushed for over 2K.

The only thing his TDs mean to me is that in the redzone Ball has a nose for the goal line.

Most of the time people don't criticize someone with 29 TDs and 1600 rushing yards for lack of production. I guess 6.5 YPC isn't good enough for funbuncher. With that many TDs he better have at least 8!

Weeze
11-29-2011, 10:04 AM
Ball has 29 rushing TDs, but only 1622 yards rushing. So I would assume those scores are mostly short runs and not of the 25+ yards variety.
Most college backs with over 25 TDs rushing in a season have rushed for over 2K.

The only thing his TDs mean to me is that in the redzone Ball has a nose for the goal line.

Did some quick research:

- Montee: 20 of his 29 rushing scores were less than 10 yards. thats 68.9% of his scores close to the goalline

- Trent Richardson: 16 of his 20 rushing scores were inside the 10 for a percentage 80%

- Joseph Randle: 18 of his 21 scores were inside the 10. 85.7%

- Cameron Marshall: 14 of 18 were inside 10. 77.7%

- Lamichael: 11 of 14 were inside 10. 78.5%

- I looked at several others but Lamar Miller was the only one whose ratio of short td's:tot. td's was better than Montee's. he only has scored 9 tds but 3 were less than 10 and 6 were 20 yards or greater.

I only used backs from BCS conferences, while you are correct about him having a nose for the goalline, the majority of other good backs in the country have a lower percentage of long touchdown runs.

PossibleCabbage
11-29-2011, 10:07 AM
Is "the ability to score long touchdowns" something that really projects to the NFL? Or is it more a function of inferior competition and/or blown assignments that are unlikely to be repeated in the NFL.

I don't know about you, but I just don't see a lot of long touchdown runs in the NFL these days. I'm not sure if it's the thing I would be concerned about.

Weeze
11-29-2011, 10:38 AM
Is "the ability to score long touchdowns" something that really projects to the NFL? Or is it more a function of inferior competition and/or blown assignments that are unlikely to be repeated in the NFL.

I don't know about you, but I just don't see a lot of long touchdown runs in the NFL these days. I'm not sure if it's the thing I would be concerned about.

Very good point.

bigbuc
11-29-2011, 10:13 PM
Is "the ability to score long touchdowns" something that really projects to the NFL? Or is it more a function of inferior competition and/or blown assignments that are unlikely to be repeated in the NFL.

I don't know about you, but I just don't see a lot of long touchdown runs in the NFL these days. I'm not sure if it's the thing I would be concerned about.

You want to ask Marcus Allen that? Any running back will tell you that the hardest run is the goal line run. Allen mastered it... look at the best RB in football this year Matt Forte, he gets taken out on goal line and short yardage plays.

FUNBUNCHER
11-30-2011, 12:12 AM
I don't know what his rushing TDs tell you about Bell as a pro prospect. Yeah its an important part of the evaluation,( if Bell for instance only scored 2 rushing TDs I'm sure it would be viewed as a negative).

But with Montee Ball's TD numbers, IMO it's more important to look at HOW he's scoring those TDs, not HOW MUCH.

When you look at a game by game stat breakdown of Barry Sanders 39 TDs at Ok State, he was scoring at least one TD a game that was 30+ yards or longer. It wasn't blown coverages or missed assignments that created those runs. Barry Sanders couldn't be tackled in the open field once he hit the second level of college defenses. Too quick, too elusive. Too instinctive.

I'm not downgrading the value of being able to rush for TDs near the goal line. It's a part of the reason John Riggins is in the HOF.

But I just don't know anything definitive about Montee Ball because he's rushed for almost 30 TDs.

He looks like a solid RB and as of right now I'd draft him anywhere from the late 3rd to somewhere in the 5th round. But I won't lie, being a Wisconsin RB is a slight negative for me until one of them becomes an effective runner in the pros.

princefielder28
11-30-2011, 06:52 AM
so your argument is that Ball is a questionable prospect because he's not scoring his TDs like Barry Sanders????

FUNBUNCHER
11-30-2011, 07:07 AM
If anyone thinks Ball is an elite RB prospect because he's scored 29 TDs, they need to go watch more Badger football.
The question is how good is Montee?? It's not like I think he can't play in the NFL or develop into a starter for a team.
But his rushing TD numbers alone tell you very little about him as a prospect.
It's a great college accomplishment and that's about it.

Of all the stats you can study about a RB prospect, his rush TDs is the least predictive or analytical relating to his ability to be successful at the next level.

jbooshey
11-30-2011, 07:19 AM
I'm referring to his rushing yards. It's hard to extrapolate rushing TDs exclusively for a RB prospect to the next level.

Ball has 29 rushing TDs, but only 1622 yards rushing. So I would assume those scores are mostly short runs and not of the 25+ yards variety.
Most college backs with over 25 TDs rushing in a season have rushed for over 2K.


Do you realize how many fourth quarters Ball has sat on the sideline this year? About enough to make for a loss of two complete games. How many yards do you think he would have if he had those extra two games?

And the people who keep comparing him to Barry Sanders need to stop. They are different running backs and everyone knows that...that is not a reason to knock Montee. Plenty of RB's have won the Heisman without being Barry Sanders or posting his numbers. Right now, Montee Ball looks every bit as good if not better than Mark Ingram during the year he won the Heisman.

princefielder28
11-30-2011, 07:44 AM
If anyone thinks Ball is an elite RB prospect because he's scored 29 TDs, they need to go watch more Badger football.
The question is how good is Montee?? It's not like I think he can't play in the NFL or develop into a starter for a team.
But his rushing TD numbers alone tell you very little about him as a prospect.
It's a great college accomplishment and that's about it.

Of all the stats you can study about a RB prospect, his rush TDs is the least predictive or analytical relating to his ability to be successful at the next level.

No one was saying he's an elite prospect by any means but he can be a very good back at the next level. Don't use the watch more Badger football card. I think most Badger fans will tell you, myself included, that Ball is a far different back then any recent back that they've had (Calhoun being the most similar type of player)

prock
11-30-2011, 08:12 AM
I don't know what his rushing TDs tell you about Bell as a pro prospect. Yeah its an important part of the evaluation,( if Bell for instance only scored 2 rushing TDs I'm sure it would be viewed as a negative).

But with Montee Ball's TD numbers, IMO it's more important to look at HOW he's scoring those TDs, not HOW MUCH.

When you look at a game by game stat breakdown of Barry Sanders 39 TDs at Ok State, he was scoring at least one TD a game that was 30+ yards or longer. It wasn't blown coverages or missed assignments that created those runs. Barry Sanders couldn't be tackled in the open field once he hit the second level of college defenses. Too quick, too elusive. Too instinctive.

I'm not downgrading the value of being able to rush for TDs near the goal line. It's a part of the reason John Riggins is in the HOF.

But I just don't know anything definitive bout Montee Ball because he's rushed for almost 30 TDs.

He looks like a solid RB and as of right now I'd draft him anywhere from the late 3rd to somewhere in the 5th round. But I won't lie, being a Wisconsin RB is a slight negative for me until one of them becomes an effective runner in the pros.

This is such a strawman. No one is saying he is elite because of his touchdown numbers. You said that he didn't have the production and 6.5 ypc isn't enough for the amount of touchdowns he scores. And when someone showed you stats calling you out on Ball doing more than pounding it in from the goal line you ignored it and attacked a point no one brought up.

FUNBUNCHER
11-30-2011, 08:13 AM
But I still feel like Montee Ball fans are arguing that his rush TD totals are an indicator of his talent, when at best they are a minor correlation for the next level.
Who does he remind you of in the NFL??
He's not going to outrun defenses in the pros. I see a smaller Shon Greene.
I still say he reminds me of Evan Royster, maybe a little better.

prock
11-30-2011, 08:26 AM
But I still feel like Montee Ball fans are arguing that his rush TD totals are an indicator of his talent, when at best they are a minor correlation for the next level.
Who does he remind you of in the NFL??
He's not going to outrun defenses in the pros. I see a smaller Shon Greene.
I still say he reminds me of Evan Royster, maybe a little better.

I'm not even a Montee Ball fan, I haven't watched much Badger football. I am just pointing out your flawed logic. I have no opinion on him as a prospect, I just have an opinion on a terrible argument you made.

FUNBUNCHER
11-30-2011, 08:38 AM
Get off it dude.

Ball just doesn't have the yardage total I would expect for a guy who rushed for 29 TDs. Great, he averaged 6.5 ypc. I still hold the opinion that I would expect more yards on the ground for a college RB who scores almost 30 TDs.

It's not that his numbers are inflated per se, but IMO they are slightly misleading.

You're off in the weeds on some rhetorical critique about my post on a prospect.

The point is Montee Ball IMO isn't as good as his stats look on paper.

prock
11-30-2011, 09:19 AM
Ha ok, sounds good. Next time I see someone criticize 29 TDs and 1600 yards as not enough production I will let it go.

StickSkills
11-30-2011, 10:12 AM
Wasn't this thread originally about Heisman and not how one translates to the NFL?

norcalgsr
12-02-2011, 05:33 PM
Montee Ball=Joseph Addai

jbooshey
12-03-2011, 09:29 AM
Montee Ball=Joseph Addai

Addai is faster
Ball runs with way more power
They are both versatile although I think Addai has more durability concerns.

I have seen much worse comparisons. Their respective college careers don't compare at all though.

DraftSavant
12-03-2011, 02:55 PM
Haven't seen a ton of Ball, but how's a Javon Ringer comparison?

norcalgsr
12-06-2011, 05:42 PM
Addai is faster
Ball runs with way more power
They are both versatile although I think Addai has more durability concerns.

I have seen much worse comparisons. Their respective college careers don't compare at all though.

Ok how's this one: Montee Ball = Tashard Choice.

rawdawg
12-06-2011, 06:07 PM
Ok how's this one: Montee Ball = Tashard Choice.

I like that comparison. Not meant as a slight to Ball because Choice hasn't exactly blown up in the NFL, but I think Ball is a similar player, that will be in a better situation and perform better in his career. They are very similar size and I think they have similar running styles. Both are slashers that don't shy away from contact.

Weeze
12-06-2011, 06:33 PM
Ball just doesn't have the yardage total I would expect for a guy who rushed for 29 TDs. Great, he averaged 6.5 ypc. I still hold the opinion that I would expect more yards on the ground for a college RB who scores almost 30 TDs.

It's not that his numbers are inflated per se, but IMO they are slightly misleading.




I think you're using flawed logic when you say his stats are misleading because his rushing yards aren't up to par with his touchdowns. maybe you should look at how many times he touches the ball to how many scores he has. the fact that he's scoring waaay more td's with a somewhat average amount of touches speaks to me a lot more than having a weighted balance of yards and touchdowns. and it's not like he's a scrub in the yardage catgory either. he's leading the nation in rushing, while the guy in second place has almost 100 more carries than he does. This part of your argument really doesn't make sense and seems a bit illogical to me.

Bald_81
12-26-2011, 02:17 AM
What is Ball's ceiling and floor in terms of where he gets drafted? Does high as the second and low as the fifth sound about right?

FUNBUNCHER
12-26-2011, 02:29 AM
I love Javon Ringer and think it sucks that he got stuck behind CJ2K in Tennessee. Same way I grieve for Toby Gerhart in Minnesota. Both are guys who could be putting up 1000+ yard seasons for other clubs.

Anyway, depending on his 40 time I think Ball is drafted anywhere from the bottom of the 2nd round to the top of the 5th.

The faster he runs, the higher he goes.

energizerbunny
12-26-2011, 02:33 AM
Its basically a case of Scheme discrimination, Wisconsin so often is flooded with NFL calibre offensive linemen that it has all most gotten to the point that NFL guys have stopped looking at the numbers these Badger backs are putting up.

Watch some of these holes these guys are running through, its not realistic at all to what they will face in the NFL.

The big question I have about Wisconsin, is why has no top HS running back talent from the South gone up there to run behind these guys. The numbers they would post would be numbing.


This scheme discrimination is the same kinda stuff that happened with the Florida Gator WRs in the Spurrier era.

energizerbunny
12-26-2011, 02:40 AM
What is Ball's ceiling and floor in terms of where he gets drafted? Does high as the second and low as the fifth sound about right?

I'd say mid 2- Mid 4, if he breaks 4.6.

As his Combine #'s will be way more important than his College stats.

However he does look much more explosive than the usual Badger back.

Bald_81
12-26-2011, 03:01 AM
I'd be shocked if he ran a 4.6 or above. He has great initial burst but the question is his long, breakaway speed. I would guess he runs between a 4.49-4.53 at the combine.

energizerbunny
12-26-2011, 03:05 AM
I'd be shocked if he ran a 4.6 or above. He has great initial burst but the question is his long, breakaway speed. I would guess he runs between a 4.49-4.53 at the combine.

Thats another reason Badger backs always always fall... big lumbering guys who run really,really slow at the combine... PJ Hill, John Clay come to mind.

Montee is really a hybrid between those big guys and Calhoun.

norcalgsr
12-26-2011, 03:43 AM
I'd say mid 2- Mid 4, if he breaks 4.6.

As his Combine #'s will be way more important than his College stats.

However he does look much more explosive than the usual Badger back.

I don't know about calling him "explosive". I'd rather say he has "decisive burst". But how much of that comes with the comfort of the blocking system and play design and knowing where he needs to be. He'll be drafted based on his instincts and football IQ. If he times and measures well, that's a plus.

norcalgsr
12-26-2011, 03:47 AM
Thats another reason Badger backs always always fall... big lumbering guys who run really,really slow at the combine... PJ Hill, John Clay come to mind.

Montee is really a hybrid between those big guys and Calhoun.

Don't forget Ball was playing at 230 last year and is down to 205.

descendency
12-26-2011, 05:46 AM
look at the best RB in football this year Matt Forte

LOL. What? No. Just no.

jbooshey
12-26-2011, 07:24 AM
Its basically a case of Scheme discrimination, Wisconsin so often is flooded with NFL calibre offensive linemen that it has all most gotten to the point that NFL guys have stopped looking at the numbers these Badger backs are putting up.

Watch some of these holes these guys are running through, its not realistic at all to what they will face in the NFL.

The big question I have about Wisconsin, is why has no top HS running back talent from the South gone up there to run behind these guys. The numbers they would post would be numbing.


This scheme discrimination is the same kinda stuff that happened with the Florida Gator WRs in the Spurrier era.

Why do you need a top HS RB from the south? We usually receive a commitment every year from a top 50 HS RB in the nation...that said James White is from Florida, but even he was the 2nd back on his HS team. Lately Coach Bielema has been able to stay in-state at the RB position which isn't typical at all. But the last three classes have had in-state top RB's (Jeff Lewis #49, Melvin Gordon #38 and Vonte Jackson #27 in their respective classes).

energizerbunny
12-26-2011, 03:00 PM
Why do you need a top HS RB from the south?

I'am just saying imagine the production if they got those top talent guys, Instead of getting guys who are mid-level prospects at best.

I can't even fathom what a guy like Lattimore or Dyer would do behind those guys.

Caulibflower
12-26-2011, 03:27 PM
It's easy enough to find high school combine reports of Montee running 4.4s at 215, and like others have mentioned he came into this year a lot leaner than he was in years past. I don't think his explosion or quickness are subpar, and the good shape he's in this year ought to be seen as a positive. I was watching some film of him last night and thought he looked like an NFL runner. Not a transcendent talent, but a guy who a team will take in the third round and will likely start quite a few games over the course of his career. The first player who came to mind was Tashard Choice, but I think Ball is better. One of those guys who doesn't do anything amazing, but doesn't have any big weaknesses either. He's got some power and probably more speed than people are giving him credit for. Not in the first round mix, though, and really I don't think the second either. That would be a little high for what he ultimately can offer. If he's putting up big stats in the NFL, it'll be because he's on a good team. I don't see him as a back that will elevate his team's play, and those are the ones who should be going in the first.

jbooshey
12-26-2011, 04:23 PM
I'am just saying imagine the production if they got those top talent guys, Instead of getting guys who are mid-level prospects at best.

I can't even fathom what a guy like Lattimore or Dyer would do behind those guys.

Gotchya...although I'll point out that John Clay was a McDonald All-American. He let his weight get the best of him though.

Bald_81
12-26-2011, 04:29 PM
Gotchya...although I'll point out that John Clay was a McDonald All-American. He let his weight get the best of him though.

I guess that's why he was a McDonald's All-American then?

princefielder28
12-26-2011, 06:19 PM
Gotchya...although I'll point out that John Clay was a McDonald All-American. He let his weight get the best of him though.

He was a bigger back when he was in school at Racine Park...managing his weight was always an issue

ChiefMojo
12-27-2011, 10:58 AM
I really like Monte Ball as a RB! I think he would be a good starter or compliment back. I see him as a 2nd/3rd round type prospect. Good speed, good hands, very good with the cut and has good strength. On top of that he is very durable!

bigbuc
01-02-2012, 04:33 PM
This guy is balling right now

JBCX
01-02-2012, 06:04 PM
This guy is balling right now

Correction: His offensive line is balling against the undersized Oregon defense.

FUNBUNCHER
01-02-2012, 06:19 PM
I think Ball has a great chance to be a starter in the NFL, but damn he gets holes at the LOS that TWO running backs could jet through nearly side by side.

He's got decent vision and lateral movement, but there are about 5 RBs I'd want ahead of Montee.

Caulibflower
01-02-2012, 07:22 PM
I think Ball has a great chance to be a starter in the NFL, but damn he gets holes at the LOS that TWO running backs could jet through nearly side by side.

He's got decent vision and lateral movement, but there are about 5 RBs I'd want ahead of Montee.

...and there's probably 10 or more in any given draft class that can rush for 500 yards for a team. It's kind of just the nature of the position anymore that there are lots of players that can do what you need them to do.

phlysac
01-02-2012, 08:05 PM
Cannot WAIT to see what Paul Chryst and Bob Bostad do with Ray Graham and Rushel Shell.

energizerbunny
01-03-2012, 01:54 AM
Cannot WAIT to see what Paul Chryst and Bob Bostad do with Ray Graham and Rushel Shell.

Gonna take him a while to build a Wisconsin type stable of good olinemen.

Its pretty easy to call play's when your oline gets that kind of movement. Anyone who has ever coached or called will tell you that, life is easy when your winning the line.

the_dark_knight
01-03-2012, 09:19 AM
Personally, all I think is ANOTHER Wisconsin back. He doesn't appear to be the same, and appears to be special, but it's just, how many times can people get burned by Big 10 backs before they learn?

PossibleCabbage
01-05-2012, 03:25 PM
I sincerely don't see him coming out this year, he has an additional year of eligibility and I think he'll use it.

http://espn.go.com/college-football/story/_/id/7429071/montee-ball-wisconsin-badgers-returning-senior-season

I'm just going to toot my own horn here, don't mind me.

FUNBUNCHER
01-05-2012, 03:41 PM
Hits for a RB are like miles on a car. A college and pro RB only has so many hits he can take before his body starts to break down.
(Another reason guys like Emmitt Smith and Walter Payton are HOFers).

IMO Montee should make the jump now and finish his degree in the offseason.
Professionally this isn't going to improve his stock and if he suffers an injury next year and misses games, his stock could potentially drop.

I think it's bad advice to tell a RB who's draft eligible after having the type of season Ball just had that it's a good idea to return to college.

PossibleCabbage
01-05-2012, 03:47 PM
Hits for a RB are like miles on a car. A college and pro RB only has so many hits he can take before his body starts to break down.
(Another reason guys like Emmitt Smith and Walter Payton are HOFers).

IMO Montee should make the jump now and finish his degree in the offseason.
Professionally this isn't going to improve his stock and if he suffers an injury next year and misses games, his stock could potentially drop.

I think it's bad advice to tell a RB who's draft eligible after having the type of season Ball just had that it's a good idea to return to college.

The previous three Wisconsin RBs to declare early found no NFL success. Ball is potentially the best of the bunch, but I would not be that surprised if the Draft Advisory Board was not kind to Ball in light of both the NFL success (or lack thereof) of players at his position, and the quality of his offensive line (which get at least two players drafted this year.)

I'm not saying it's the right decision, but it could be that the DAB strongly suggested he return (in which case they would likely have been in error, for the reasons you suggest.)

EDIT: Supposedly the Draft Advisory Board gave him a third round grade.