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JoeJoeBrown
11-06-2011, 10:19 AM
He knew that Sandusky was raping little boys and said nothing about it to the police. He reported it to the ad a week after being told. Holy crap that is just wrong.

The incidents are so many that it boggles the mind that the PSU administration sat on this info. Infuriating.

Report is not for the weak of stomach. (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/sports/documents/sandusky-grand-jury-report11052011.html)

Smooth Criminal
11-06-2011, 10:23 AM
Thrown in jail is a little far, he did follow the letter of the law.

However, that's not enough for me. He knew about this and didn't see to it that the bastard end up in jail. He didn't do his moral duty and that's enough for me to get him booted from his job. There's no way he should be allowed to coach another game after this. How a recruit, or a recruits mom, could ever trust him to look out for the players best interest is beyond me.

And its not just him. Anyone at any level that knew about this and didn't make sure that this guy was thrown in jail or castrated needs to get their morals checked.

Ngatachance92
11-06-2011, 10:26 AM
Did Chris Hanson already call dibs on his first interview from prison?

JoeJoeBrown
11-06-2011, 10:42 AM
Thrown in jail is a little far, he did follow the letter of the law.

Actually he didn't follow the law. Nor did mcQueary (the ga that walked in on Sandusky). PA law dictates that you must report suspected child abuse to the police or child protective services.

I agree with your other point about moral obligation.

Sandusky was investigated in 1998 for showering with boys. That is very likely why he left the team in 99. The guy had boys sleep in his room at the team hotel before games.

JoePa had known about this for a long time. He's been friends with the guy for over 40 years. Completely messed up.

Rabscuttle
11-06-2011, 10:46 AM
Holy ******* hell should be rained down on the lot of them. Penn State shouldn't have a fan in the seats until the school cleans house.

Good people need to make it known that they won't associate with or support an organization involved in protecting pedophiles.

These people were more concerned with reputation than protecting children and doing right and Penn State and visiting fans can make it clear where they stand on this.

WCH
11-06-2011, 12:03 PM
Holy ******* hell should be rained down on the lot of them. Penn State shouldn't have a fan in the seats until the school cleans house.

Good people need to make it known that they won't associate with or support an organization involved in protecting pedophiles.

These people were more concerned with reputation than protecting children and doing right and Penn State and visiting fans can make it clear where they stand on this.

I agree. They could have tried to put a stop to this more than ten years ago. Instead they let this scum continue to not just walk the streets, but to run a ******* organization for at-risk boys? Despicable.

At the very least, Paterno should resign or be fired.

FUNBUNCHER
11-06-2011, 12:24 PM
Talk about permanently ******* up your coaching legacy.
This will follow Jo Pa to his grave.

Smooth Criminal
11-06-2011, 12:25 PM
And instead Penn State will be paying the legal fees of all of their employees that need representation.

LonghornsLegend
11-06-2011, 12:44 PM
This is extremely disgusting and disturbing. If fans there care more about football and legacy then this I don't know what to say about that, but there is NO reason he shouldn't be fired. NONE. This stains that program in a big way, and should for a very long time.

Ngatachance92
11-06-2011, 12:48 PM
Talk about permanently ******* up your coaching legacy.
This will follow Jo Pa to his grave.

Maybe it should be carried to his grave sooner rather than later.

JoeJoeBrown
11-06-2011, 12:59 PM
This is extremely disgusting and disturbing. If fans there care more about football and legacy then this I don't know what to say about that, but there is NO reason he shouldn't be fired. NONE. This stains that program in a big way, and should for a very long time.

Yes, this is an athletic department issue. They covered up the activity. This was a known behavior for a long time, probably much longer than can be proved.

The guy started a charity in 1981 for kids. He's been accused of molesting kids since 1996. I doubt that it started then.

Also, take note that the lawyer that handled the 1998 PSU investigation into Sandusky showering with little boys is now the lead counsel for Sandusky's charity.

So the guy that let Sandusky go is now his legal guru.

The AD and a PSU VP of finance ignored the allegations and only forbade Sandusky from bringing children to campus.

McQueary and JoePa didn't report the incident to police.

Sandusky had boys sleep in his room before games. This was known by people in the program. It's not like he was sneaking them in there.

Doesn't Sandusky's charity sound a lot like there's a chance that it was a pedophile ring? And that these guys knew about it?

So freaking dirty. This goes way beyond sports, the games are so insignificant at this point. The PSU athletic department was a highly corrupt and amoral organization that was supposedly in the business of improving the lives of young men and women.

Instead they letting a rapist run free in their midst.

What's even crazier is only NOW does the administration ban Sandusky from campus.

I want PSU suspended from the B1G until they clean house. Everyone.

I hope that most of their alumni don't show up to games and raise holy hell until those scumbags are gone.

ElectricEye
11-06-2011, 01:01 PM
This is extremely disgusting and disturbing. If fans there care more about football and legacy then this I don't know what to say about that, but there is NO reason he shouldn't be fired. NONE. This stains that program in a big way, and should for a very long time.

This. I think that some people will unfortunately gloss over the reality of this situation in lieu of what he means to the sport. It really doesn't get any worse than what some of the stuff coming out of these reports say. Legitimately no way to even mitigate what went on there. Of Paterno's involvement specifically, there's just no way I can see justifying keeping the guy around and not reporting what happened to the authorities. Say what you will about chain of command; but that's just ******* wrong. I doubt they "fire" him, but he'll certainly be encouraged into resigning, so no matter what you call it he'll have to go. As well as the people up at the top.

WCH
11-06-2011, 01:10 PM
The AD and a PSU VP of finance ignored the allegations and only forbade Sandusky from bringing children to campus.

[...]

Doesn't Sandusky's charity sound a lot like there's a chance that it was a pedophile ring? And that these guys knew about it?

These are the two things that stand out to me. It does seem like he probably started that organization so that he could gain access to young boys. These weren't "crimes of opportunity." This guy was a true predator.

And the fact that PSU wouldn't let him bring these kids to campus -- these "wayward boys" from a friggin' charitable organization -- that tells me that they knew damn well what was going on, and they didn't care as long as he kept it off campus.

Fire everybody and let the police figure out how to proceed.

TimD
11-06-2011, 01:11 PM
:(

say it aint so JoePa

Complex
11-06-2011, 01:25 PM
Bobby Bowden was always the superior coach.Can the NCAA punish Penn State?


Maybe make the NCAA take it easy on Miami.

Trogdor
11-06-2011, 01:35 PM
To be completely honest... JoePa performed his obligation in terms of reporting the incident he was told to the AD. He didn't have evidence of the events so he wasn't violating PA law when he didn't report as evidenced by the findings of the grand jury.

But if you need to build a straw-man out of JoePa go for it even though the situation has three despicable characters that don't need building.

This coming from someone who hasn't wanted JoePa has a HC for a few years now.

descendency
11-06-2011, 01:40 PM
I don't know whether what Joe Pa did was right or wrong (obviously, it wasn't desirable in the situation), but he definitely did tell someone who was a higher level of authority about it. This is far more than JoePa's fault. (obviously, I mean the "cover-up" and not the actual sexual assault)

LonghornsLegend
11-06-2011, 01:47 PM
Doesn't Sandusky's charity sound a lot like there's a chance that it was a pedophile ring?

This is exactly what it sounds like to me. And it went on for a very long time.




But if you need to build a straw-man out of JoePa go for it

Really? You think this story is building a straw-man? Please.

FUNBUNCHER
11-06-2011, 01:48 PM
This IMO is beyond the jurisdiction of the NCAA. Paterno did have a moral obligation to pick up the phone and call State College Police and share his suspicions.

I understand the mindset of the PSU coaching staff; if there's a 'problem' occurring on the team you have one of two remedies generally speaking. Either you fire a coach or kick a player off the team, or you report it to the AD.

Sandusky was fired but more should have been done.
I don't think it was Paterno's responsibility to monitor Sandusky's activities after he left the program. But damn if you think the guy is still diddling little boys, call an anonymous tip to law enforcement.

Maybe this was done. Who knows.

For instance if Paterno discovered one of his assistants was a mid-level coke dealer selling to players and students at PSU, guaranteed he would have done more than 'report it' to the AD. He would have called the police himself if the AD didn't follow up.

Bulldogs
11-06-2011, 01:49 PM
I literally felt like vomiting reading some of this stuff. This is sick. Get rid of them all, anybody that was involved during this period. How could you not report this stuff? I can't even fathom how much stuff went on that was also not caught by people.

Trogdor
11-06-2011, 01:55 PM
This is exactly what it sounds like to me. And it went on for a very long time.





Really? You think this story is building a straw-man? Please.

Hate to get personal but.. READING COMPREHENSION. Read the entire post instead of a snippet and understand my point. That being the previous posts by a couple of OSU homers calling for JoePa's ousting and that he violated PA law by not reporting were incorrect and baseless claims aka 'building a straw-man'. The story is not an indictment of JoePa. It's an indictment of Sandusky, the AD, and a VP. It is horrendous and the fact that PSU is fronting the bill of the legal defense of the AD and VP is FAR more concerning than JoePa following protocol and reporting to higher authorities based on what he was being told by student-athletes.

Sheessssh.

ElectricEye
11-06-2011, 01:59 PM
To be completely honest... JoePa performed his obligation in terms of reporting the incident he was told to the AD. He didn't have evidence of the events so he wasn't violating PA law when he didn't report as evidenced by the findings of the grand jury.

But if you need to build a straw-man out of JoePa go for it even though the situation has three despicable characters that don't need building.


How on earth is it making a strawman out of him? Sure he "performed his obligation", but this pederasty we're talking about. He's obligated to do far more than just notify the chain of command. As is the graduate assistant and his father, really. It's not like a few kids got caught taking money or anything. The sick part is that Penn State handled this situation like it was. The people who tried to cover it up should be held responsible, sure. The people who let it be covered up are just as guilty though. A situation like this is pretty black and white. Simply following procedure isn't good enough.

You're kidding yourself if you think this was an isolated incident too. The guy coached at Penn State for 30 years and was close to Paterno. The allegations go back almost that far. It's extremely hard to believe that no one had knowledge that this sort of thing was going on before the incident in 2002. Or at least suspicions.

JoeJoeBrown
11-06-2011, 02:07 PM
To be completely honest... JoePa performed his obligation in terms of reporting the incident he was told to the AD. He didn't have evidence of the events so he wasn't violating PA law when he didn't report as evidenced by the findings of the grand jury.

But if you need to build a straw-man out of JoePa go for it even though the situation has three despicable characters that don't need building.

This coming from someone who hasn't wanted JoePa has a HC for a few years now.

JoePa knowing what was going on is not a strawman.

He knew that there was a shower investigation in 1998.

He knew that Sandusky had boys sleep in his room pre game.

He knew that McQueary saw Sandusky butt raping a 10 year old in the showers.

JoePa worked with and was friends with this guy for over 40 years.

JoePa is a piece of crap. He's a coward and so is McQueary. The fact that at least four people knew about this single incident and no one did a thing about it is indefensible for all of them.

Reporting the rape of a child by a non-employee in your locker room isn't something that you tell the AD about. You tell the cops.

EDIT:
This has nothing to do with being an OSU fan, btw. It has to do with being disgusted at a major organization for harming little kids and covering it up. It is unbelievable that this went on so long.

There is no reason for you to get defensive about JoePa. No PSU fan would have suspected this. It's how PSU alums react to this situation that is going to be telling. Preventing it was on the AD organization and that organization and the football org were complicit in the actions.

Separate yourself from the memories of a stupid game and realize that the whole lot need to be removed. Sports are minor here. They all need to be forced out, including Spanier for his bizarre reactions here.

Here are the people that are supposed to report child abuse to the authorities. (http://www.alleghenycounty.us/dhs/childabuse.aspx)

Mandated Reporters

Persons required to report include but are not limited to:

A licensed physician, medical examiner, coroner, funeral director, dentist, optometrist, osteopath, chiropractor, psychologist, podiatrist, intern, registered nurse or licensed practical nurse.
Hospital personnel engaged in the admission, examination, care or treatment of persons.
A Christian Science practitioner, member of the clergy, school administrator, school teacher, school nurse, school librarian, social services worker, day care center worker or another child care or foster care worker, mental health professional, peace officer or law enforcement official.


JoePa could be considered both a school administrator and a teacher. He failed to report. He's likely not in trouble because he's JoePa and the AG worked out a deal for him to testify.

FUNBUNCHER
11-06-2011, 02:16 PM
It probably didn't happen, but it's possible JoPa did contact law enforcement.
I'm reaching I know.

If a middle school teacher saw another teacher raping a student, of course they tell the principal. But most teachers are going to call the police first.

I can't think of anything worse for a HC not to step up and do absolutely the right thing by contacting police. Other than murder, child molestation is THE worst crime anyone would want associated with their program.

ESPN doesn't even know how to report this story, it's so toxic.

Grizzlegom
11-06-2011, 02:17 PM
Just a little context, this all came out originally in 1998. As someone who has been following Penn State for a LONG time, the story came out in 98 and the police looked into an incident back then and he was promptly cleared of all charges. In no way am I defending the actions of anyone involved but JoePa did everything he was supposed to do, including forcing Sandusky into retirement. I fully believe Curley and the VP of Finance should be fired but there's no reason that this should affect JoePa's legacy, nor should it force him into retirement (many around the program felt this was his final year regardless of this incident so don't assume that if he retires it was because of this). As soon as he had any suspicions, he reported it to his superior and removed the coach from his coaching staff, how can you put any blame on him? Because he didn't report anything to the police who were already investigating Sandusky? C'mon man.

JoeJoeBrown
11-06-2011, 02:23 PM
Just a little context, this all came out originally in 1998. As someone who has been following Penn State for a LONG time, the story came out in 98 and the police looked into an incident back then and he was promptly cleared of all charges. In no way am I defending the actions of anyone involved but JoePa did everything he was supposed to do, including forcing Sandusky into retirement. I fully believe Curley and the VP of Finance should be fired but there's no reason that this should affect JoePa's legacy, nor should it force him into retirement (many around the program felt this was his final year regardless of this incident so don't assume that if he retires it was because of this). As soon as he had any suspicions, he reported it to his superior and removed the coach from his coaching staff, how can you put any blame on him? Because he didn't report anything to the police who were already investigating Sandusky? C'mon man.

If JoePa called the cops, this would have been over long ago.

Sandusky was forced out because they couldn't prove anything but it was highly suspicious.

JoePa could have had the guy banned from campus at the very least.

Grizzlegom
11-06-2011, 02:26 PM
If JoePa called the cops, this would have been over long ago.

Sandusky was forced out because they couldn't prove anything but it was highly suspicious.

JoePa could have had the guy banned from campus at the very least.

The police performed a full investigation and found nothing to charge him with. How is that Joe Paterno's fault? In addition, agreed it was suspicious but aren't you innocent until proven guilty in this country? Hard to ban someone who is cleared of all charges (unless your name is Roger Goodell).

descendency
11-06-2011, 02:31 PM
The part that bothers me is that Penn State didn't seem to try to stop him from bringing children to campus after they learned about the allegations.

WCH
11-06-2011, 02:34 PM
The police performed a full investigation and found nothing to charge him with. How is that Joe Paterno's fault? In addition, agreed it was suspicious but aren't you innocent until proven guilty in this country? Hard to ban someone who is cleared of all charges (unless your name is Roger Goodell).

It seems that nobody notified the police later, in 2002, when McQueary witnessed a boy being raped in a shower.

JoeJoeBrown
11-06-2011, 02:36 PM
The police performed a full investigation and found nothing to charge him with. How is that Joe Paterno's fault? In addition, agreed it was suspicious but aren't you innocent until proven guilty in this country? Hard to ban someone who is cleared of all charges (unless your name is Roger Goodell).

In 98 the local cops (the guys under JoePa's control) cleared Sandusky to the point that a coach of 32 years, and the heir apparent to be head coach, was forced out. That should tell you enough that the guy was probably found by those investigators and the school to be pretty damn guilty but maybe to the point where they couldn't prove it.

So in that case, any decent human would ban the former superstar coach that was forced out for the incidents from campus.

Trogdor
11-06-2011, 02:36 PM
If JoePa called the cops, this would have been over long ago.

Sandusky was forced out because they couldn't prove anything but it was highly suspicious.

JoePa could have had the guy banned from campus at the very least.

So the fact the police failed in their investigation means it's JoePa's fault. JoePa all of a sudden is in charge of all Penn State University grounds? News to me. Take the blatant OSU hatred for PSU and direct your anger towards those who have earned it. JoePa reported SUSPICION to the AD and was 100% compliant with all investigations.

I hate everyone involved more than you can possibly imagine so don't try and act like my vision is clouded. I am simply applying the information available and using logic as opposed to piling on when it's possible.

You acted just as irrationally in the sweatvest-gate thread(s) defending a coach who actually WAS found to be guilty of something.

Trogdor
11-06-2011, 02:37 PM
In 98 the local cops (the guys under JoePa's control) cleared Sandusky to the point that a coach of 32 years, and the heir apparent to be head coach, was forced out. That should tell you enough that the guy was probably found by those investigators and the school to be pretty damn guilty but maybe to the point where they couldn't prove it.

So in that case, any decent human would ban the former superstar coach that was forced out for the incidents from campus.

LMAO. So now it's JoePa's responsibility to make sure the police are working efficiently. You are looking like a troll good sir.

Grizzlegom
11-06-2011, 02:49 PM
In 98 the local cops (the guys under JoePa's control) cleared Sandusky to the point that a coach of 32 years, and the heir apparent to be head coach, was forced out. That should tell you enough that the guy was probably found by those investigators and the school to be pretty damn guilty but maybe to the point where they couldn't prove it.

So in that case, any decent human would ban the former superstar coach that was forced out for the incidents from campus.

Now the police are corrupt. Cool story bro.

I just find it a little ridiculous that the grand jury felt JoePa did everything he was supposed to do and puts no blame on him or anything yet you continue to attack him like he did something wrong. I'm clearly biased in his favor but its pretty clear you are equally as biased against him.

JoeJoeBrown
11-06-2011, 02:51 PM
You psu homers are priceless.

FUNBUNCHER
11-06-2011, 02:59 PM
What else was Paterno supposed to do?? Hire his own private investigator and watch Sandusky under 24 hour surveillance once he was fired???

I wish Paterno had done more, instead of doing only what was required. What disgusts me about this situation is that in 30 years that Sandusky was under his hire, my gut tells me there have been 'stories' and rumors about Sandusky that never left the PSU program.

Grizzlegom
11-06-2011, 03:01 PM
You psu homers are priceless.

As priceless as you Ohio State homers.

WCH
11-06-2011, 03:04 PM
If McQueary had immediately called the police when he witnessed the rape, they may have been able to catch Sandusky in the area with the boy. If they couldn't, they could have likely found video footage of him entering/leaving the building with the boy during the hours that McQueary claimed. There would have been physical evidence proving that sexual misconduct had taken place.

I don't have much of an opinion on Paterno at this point, but McQueary really screwed up that night. Mistakes happen, but to witness the rape of a child and not immediately notify police is pretty bad.

Smooth Criminal
11-06-2011, 03:07 PM
Like I said earlier, while getting group as an OSU homer I guess, Paternity was not criminally responsible for anything, but knowing what he knew I don't think he performed all his moral obligations.

According to everything out there, he knew about both the incident in 98 and 02. Knowing about both of them, I think he had a duty to do anything in his power to make sure this man never even saw a kid again. To me, he performed his legal duty, but he really didn't do everything he could have.

ElectricEye
11-06-2011, 03:09 PM
I think both Paterno and the Graduate Assistant were wrong. The people higher up even more so...but when you witness an absolutely heinous crime like that, you don't treat it like some sort of procedural thing. What's the athletic director going to do that you can't? You notify the authorities RIGHT away. That's more on Mike McQueary than anyone else...but the fact it was over a week and a half later before any action was taken when you saw someone close to the university anally violating a ten year old child really makes me question the humanity of almost everyone involved. Someone should have had the guts to do the right thing.

JoeJoeBrown
11-06-2011, 03:35 PM
I think both Paterno and the Graduate Assistant were wrong. The people higher up even more so...but when you witness an absolutely heinous crime like that, you don't treat it like some sort of procedural thing. What's the athletic director going to do that you can't? You notify the authorities RIGHT away. That's more on Mike McQueary than anyone else...but the fact it was over a week and a half later before any action was taken when you saw someone close to the university anally violating a ten year old child really makes me question the humanity of almost everyone involved. Someone should have had the guts to do the right thing.

Exactly. I don't know how one can try to defend any of these people.

Also if you don't think JoePa has a hell of a lot of influence on the cops griz you are being naive. Tiny town. Big school. Huge legend. If he wants something he gets it. He has gotten so many players out of legal trouble by saying that he'd take care of their punishment that there is a high probability that he could help one of his friends out.

Regardless, I hope Sandusky is put through a lot of pain and that psu pushes the whole rotten football and ad regime out soon.

FUNBUNCHER
11-06-2011, 03:55 PM
No cop covers up allegations made by a HC of child molestation/rape by one of his assistants.

You've gone from criticizing Paterno to slandering him.

JoeJoeBrown
11-06-2011, 04:09 PM
No cop covers up allegations made by a HC of child molestation/rape by one of his assistants.

You've gone from criticizing Paterno to slandering him.

Slander? No. Trogdor wanted a straw man so I gave it to him.

BRAVEHEART
11-06-2011, 04:29 PM
http://i.cdn.turner.com/si/2009/images/08/24/joe-paterno.jpg

Grizzlegom
11-06-2011, 04:47 PM
Exactly. I don't know how one can try to defend any of these people.

Also if you don't think JoePa has a hell of a lot of influence on the cops griz you are being naive. Tiny town. Big school. Huge legend. If he wants something he gets it. He has gotten so many players out of legal trouble by saying that he'd take care of their punishment that there is a high probability that he could help one of his friends out.

Regardless, I hope Sandusky is put through a lot of pain and that psu pushes the whole rotten football and ad regime out soon.

There is no shortage of strange cases in Penn State's history of players having an easy time from the cops from the 70s and 80s but there hasn't been anything like that since the mid-80s and if these allegations and the police investigation went back to those times, I actually would be open to the possibility/argument that members in the administration had sway with law enforcement but fact is, there's no evidence to support that claim in the last 20 years. In fact, since Kerry Collins' drunken escapades in the early 90s, university and State College police have been extremely harsh on players, with Paterno having a quick finger to suspend anyone prematurely, even throwing a few players off the team outright even though they were later cleared of charges or plead to misdemeanors (Chris Baker, Austin Scott, and Phil Taylor immediately come to mind). Its a far cry to make the jump from things like public drunkenness to child molestation.

JoeJoeBrown
11-06-2011, 04:49 PM
There is no shortage of strange cases in Penn State's history of players having an easy time from the cops from the 70s and 80s but there hasn't been anything like that since the mid-80s and if these allegations and the police investigation went back to those times, I actually would be open to the possibility/argument that members in the administration had sway with law enforcement but fact is, there's no evidence to support that claim in the last 20 years. In fact, since Kerry Collins' drunken escapades in the early 90s, university and State College police have been extremely harsh on players, with Paterno having a quick finger to suspend anyone prematurely, even throwing a few players off the team outright even though they were later cleared of charges or plead to misdemeanors (Chris Baker, Austin Scott, and Phil Taylor immediately come to mind). Its a far cry to make the jump from things like public drunkenness to child molestation.

Well stated and I am forced to withdraw my straw man.

I used to like JoePa and I think this has just shocked me a bit. I overreact when shocked I guess.

slightlyaraiderfan
11-06-2011, 06:40 PM
People had information to put this sick bastard in jail, they failed and he was free to mess with more kids lives....pathetic.

ElectricEye
11-06-2011, 06:44 PM
People had information to put this sick bastard in jail, they failed and he was free to mess with more kids lives....pathetic.

That's basically what it boils down to. Any other stance on this, with all due respect, is ******* absurd.

WCH
11-06-2011, 06:57 PM
People had information to put this sick bastard in jail, they failed and he was free to mess with more kids lives....pathetic.

Quoted for truth.

JoeJoeBrown
11-06-2011, 07:00 PM
People had information to put this sick bastard in jail, they failed and he was free to mess with more kids lives....pathetic.

Succint and to the point.

JoeJoeBrown
11-06-2011, 07:16 PM
Take this fwiw. A post on the Victor's board (UM board).
JoePa's neighbor growing up. (http://www.boards2go.com/boards/board.cgi?action=read&id=1320623960&user=mabee)

I was born and grew up in State College--lived there until I left for college at U of M. Mom, dad and both sisters are PSU grads--I'm the black sheep. In about 1965, as I was leaving for Ann Arbor, JoePa moved into the house directly across the street. My younger sister babysat for his family and was a HS classmate of Tim Curley at State College High. Last Fall, she and her son--who was considering attending PSU--sat in Curley's suite for a home football game. Mike McCreary is also an alum of State High.

These are good people--who just did the wrong thing. It's very hard to understand how it all happened but it did.

You can say a lot about JoePa--nepotism, arrogant, stayed way too long, etc. but the fact is he coached at a very high level for a long, long time and did it without the slightest hint of a scandal. And I doubt there has ever been another football coach who gave $5M to his school's library.

There is a lot of this story yet to come out. There are a lot of other young boys involved. Some big squeezes in SC will be pulled in as someone gave a Cadillac Escalade to the mom of one of the boys who was molested to keep him quiet--the boy wrecked the car. The Second Mile, a charity with a ton of good works that Sandusky founded, is going to be pulled in and investigated.

In 1998, a year before he left, PSU knew that this was going on. I'm told his pay was cut in half to force him out--this to a guy who was probably more responsible than anyone else for PSU's tremendous defenses and success on the field--but he wouldn't quit.

So the next year they forced him out. Joe attended his retirement dinner and spoke for less than a minute--for a guy who had been his key assistant forever.

There is just no way JoePa didn't know. As did Graham Spanier, and a whole lot of others.

But Sandusky was allowed to keep an office at PSU and had keys to many of the sports facilities. Why? Absolutely unbelievable.

I think they just wanted him to go away and hopefully stop abusing kids. But that's not the way this stuff works.

BTW, JoePa is still at PSU as he raises a ton of money annually from the older alums--they love the guy. And PSU wants to be in their wills. Supposedly, Joe has made it very clear that he stops campaigning for $ the minute he is no longer the head coach. And he wants a secure position for his son JayPa and knows he is gone the minute Joe leaves.

Brodeur
11-06-2011, 08:16 PM
The people that say that JoePa couldn't have done anything after he was cleared in '98.........how about stopping him from having kids sleepover in the facilities after that? JoePa was close with this guy, you know he had to know about this **** just as the dude that lived next to him said. This is waaaaaaay worse than recruiting violations, or minor on campus infractions.

Giantsfan1080
11-06-2011, 08:30 PM
JoePa should have been fired already. This is ridiculous.

FUNBUNCHER
11-06-2011, 08:34 PM
Joe didn't handle this the right way at all and the least the University could do is force him to retire at the end of this season.
The fact that Sandusky wasn't summarily banned from the Nittany Lions football program without explanation is mind numbing.

His legacy will be forever tarnished, irrevocably IMO.

This is turning into the college football equivalent of the Catholic priest scandal.

Great men are great not only on Saturdays coaching young men. Being someone others aspire to become means doing the right thing even when it's difficult.

I still can't wrap my mind around this.

All the fake outrage over Mike Vick was total ********.
After murder of human beings(!), sexually molesting and assaulting adolescents is the most heinous crime in our society.

Why didn't JoePa's moral compass lead him out of this cesspool?? The least he could do was permanently disassociate from Sandusky.

Paterno may never have formal charges filed against him, but the average football fan will never hold him in the same esteem he previously enjoyed.

Bulldogs
11-06-2011, 08:38 PM
Joe didn't handle this the right way at all and the least the University could do is force him to retire at the end of this season.
The fact that Sandusky wasn't summarily banned from the Nittany Lions football program without explanation is mind numbing.

His legacy will be forever tarnished, irrevocably IMO.

This is turning into the college football equivalent of the Catholic priest scandal.

Great men are great not only on Saturdays coaching young men. Being someone others aspire to become means doing the right thing even when it's difficult.

I still can't wrap my mind around this.

All the fake outrage over Mike Vick was total ********.
After murder of human beings(!), sexually molesting and assaulting adolescents is the most heinous crime in our society.

Why didn't JoePa's moral compass lead him out of this cesspool?? The least he could do was permanently disassociate from Sandusky.

Paterno may never have formal charges filed against him, but the average football fan will never hold him in the same esteem he previously enjoyed.

Not to downplay what Vick did, but this is 10x worse. I couldn't believe the stuff I read, and as I said earlier it's hard to imagine the stuff this man didn't get caught doing. Disgusting. This is more important than football, presumably dozens of kids lives were ruined.

Rabscuttle
11-06-2011, 09:00 PM
http://espn.go.com/college-football/story/_/id/7200340/joe-paterno-penn-state-nittany-lions-says-true-were-all-fooled

When in doubt cover your ass. That's what leaders are supposed to do, make sure the money keeps rolling in and protect the institution.

He squeezes the guy out in 98, reports him in 02 and is now "shocked" that these charges are coming about even though Sandusky was strolling his victims through the building. I know that generation was ****** when it came to acting on pedophiles, but does he really think all the Penn State boosters are so immoral that they will continue to give money to the program with that weak ass denial?

JoeJoeBrown
11-06-2011, 09:50 PM
Posnanski (http://joeposnanski.si.com/2011/11/06/darkness/#more-8508)

Great read by Posnanski on the initial reaction. He has been living in State College for months writing a book on JoePa. That research just became very heavy.

FUNBUNCHER
11-06-2011, 10:27 PM
Damn, WHo were all these 'school counselors' referring these kids to Sandusky's 2nd Mile Program so this freak could shower naked with them, etc.??

If Sandusky isn't the biggest pedophile in the state of Pennsylvania, he's at least a close number 2.

Jeezus H. Christ.

Now I know why JoePa told his top assistant Sandusky he would not be his successor at PSU.
Because you're GD child molester, asshole !!

BTW, I think a lot of people knew what was up with Sandusky, or at least suspected.

He took these multiple victims to bowl games(!!) and pre-game banquets.
No middle aged man 'hangs out' with adolescent boys ALL THE TIME who aren't related to him.smh.

Even one of PSU's janitors reported seeing Sandusky fellating one of his victims in the showers at PSU's football facilities in 2000. No way JoePa didn't hear about that.

Brent
11-06-2011, 10:29 PM
reading those grand jury documents... **** is ****** up

FUNBUNCHER
11-06-2011, 10:33 PM
reading those grand jury documents... **** is ****** up

Totally.

This is probably the biggest scandal that any major college football program has ever been associated with.
What's even worse is the number of assaults that occurred in PSU's athletic facilities.

Sandusky is caught blowing and anally raping 10-12 year olds more than once in the showers at Happy Valley, and the dude has no fear whatsoever of being turned in. Unbelievable.

Bulldogs
11-06-2011, 10:34 PM
Totally.

This is probably the biggest scandal that any major college football program has ever been associated with.
What's even worse is the number of assaults that occurred in PSU's athletic facilities.

Sandusky is caught blowing and anally raping 10-12 year olds more than once in the showers at Happy Valley, and the dude has no fear whatsoever of being turned in. Unbelievable.

Crazy. How do you get that many times in the shower and just keep doing it...

Philliez01
11-06-2011, 10:47 PM
I can't tell ya my thoughts on JoePa but holy ****.....I feel all sorts of awful for reading the stuff about this man. I can't describe how sickening it is. Just ******* awful. Little kids. I'm seriously at a loss for words.

JoeJoeBrown
11-06-2011, 11:02 PM
Yeah it's mind blowing just how institutionalized this problem was. No way should that stuff repeatedly be happening.

JoePa runs state college. That's why I think he knows a whole bunch more. But I am building a straw man when I fill in those gaps.

I really think there was more than just Sandusky doing this. And that regardless there are a bunch more kids and likely ex players that are victims.

FUNBUNCHER
11-06-2011, 11:10 PM
It's beyond JoePa. The AD and President of PSU knew about the allegations against Sandusky and NEVER reported it to law enforcement.

Parerno really needs to shut up about his being 'surprised' about Sandusky's arrest.

How could anyone who knew anything about Sandusky's irregular behavior be surprised that OMG!! he really was molesting all those young boys he was palling around with at games etc. on Penn State's campus:????

JoeJoeBrown
11-06-2011, 11:15 PM
It's beyond JoePa. The AD and President of PSU knew about the allegations against Sandusky and NEVER reported it to law enforcement.

Parerno really needs to shut up about his being 'surprised' about Sandusky's arrest.

How could anyone who knew anything about Sandusky's irregular behavior be surprised that OMG!! he really was molesting all those young boys he was palling around with at games etc. on Penn State's campus:????

Totally agree that it's beyond Just JoePa but you have to include him.

Just hit the twitter verse that Curley and Schultz have stepped down.

ElectricEye
11-06-2011, 11:22 PM
Just went over it again.

The fact that Sandusky was known to have had inappropriate contact with boys and was still allowed to bring them into University facilities, including coaches meetings, is absolutely mind blowing and really the most damning thing here. I find it hard to believe that complete ignorance about something as serious as that can exist for years when it's happening right in front of so many people.

Iamcanadian
11-07-2011, 12:38 AM
Well, Paterno should have been forced into retirement years ago. He is a distraction for their football program and anybody who thinks he is still actually coaching, is mistaken.
This will be the final straw and I'm sure he'll finally retire so the program can get on track again.
30 years ago he was by far, the best HC in college football but it is sad for me to see him stay on way too long and leave an image that will tarnish his reputation even without this scandal.
I don't know if he was complicit in this new issue, I suspect the AD and school president are far more to blame, probably tried to cover up the mess for the good of the school which now leaves an even blacker mark on the university's reputation.

descendency
11-07-2011, 12:51 AM
JoePa did what the university would have wanted. He reported it to his superior.

The events afterwards are sickening though. An accused child molester doesn't need to have "sleep overs" on school facilities.

Saints-Tigers
11-07-2011, 01:54 AM
Wow, absolutely appalling. The guy was caught in the act multiple times, and it just kept happening?

WCH
11-07-2011, 02:35 AM
reading those grand jury documents... **** is ****** up

There isn't enough whiskey here in Florida to erase those documents from my memory. He was not only abusing children in PSU facilities, but he wasn't even making a tremendous effort to hide it. And PSU waited until 2002 -- after several years of allegations and at least two eye-witness accounts -- to go so far as to tell him to not bring children to PSU facilities.

Reading those documents, it's pretty obvious that this guy was being "protected" by people at PSU. I don't know how any of these people can sleep at night.

WCH
11-07-2011, 02:36 AM
Double post.

WCH
11-07-2011, 02:36 AM
Triple post. Sorry.

ElectricEye
11-07-2011, 06:42 AM
More stuff coming out; apparently Sandusky was allowed to run a Penn State camp for young children as late as 2009. So you have multiple reports of this guy sexually abusing children on your campus....and you let him run a camp for children that appears to be directly connected to the university, something that you control? How on earth is that justifiable?

Again, anyone who had any knowledge about this going on and stood idly bye needs to be held accountable.

MassNole
11-07-2011, 07:03 AM
I can deal with schools paying players, dirty boosters, street agents, and occasional academic fraud, we all know it happens at every school but this just crosses every moral line.......

Grizzlegom
11-07-2011, 07:09 AM
The more I see/read and the more stuff comes out, the more ashamed I am of being a Penn State grad. From everything I'm seeing, as soon as Joe found out about this stuff, he forced Sandusky into retirement and pretty much cut-off contact with him. Its a shame he didn't go out of his way to shut him out of the rest of Penn State's world and appalling that others in the athletic department and university seemingly enabled Sandusky as opposed to actually bringing something to the proper authorities.

I was sooooo excited for the Nebraska rivalry to be renewed and at this point, I don't even think I want to go to the game anymore.

eaglesalltheway
11-07-2011, 07:14 AM
... I don't even know what to think when it comes to JoePa, seems like he tried to do the right thing, perhaps he was instructed not to do anything further and let the people he report to "take care of it". I just wish, after nothing had been done, he would have taken things into his own hands. As far as Sandusky... bury the ******, he's a dirty rotten piece of **** that fully deserves every beating he gets in jail for the rest of his sad miserable life. Curley and Schultz... they're barely any better, if at all, those two should rot as long as possible as well. They are both disgusting, and I hope they get torn apart in public and court.

eaglesalltheway
11-07-2011, 07:16 AM
The more I see/read and the more stuff comes out, the more ashamed I am of being a Penn State grad. From everything I'm seeing, as soon as Joe found out about this stuff, he forced Sandusky into retirement and pretty much cut-off contact with him. Its a shame he didn't go out of his way to shut him out of the rest of Penn State's world and appalling that others in the athletic department and university seemingly enabled Sandusky as opposed to actually bringing something to the proper authorities.

I was sooooo excited for the Nebraska rivalry to be renewed and at this point, I don't even think I want to go to the game anymore.

Its exactly how I feel. I also was thinking about going up for the game, but at this point, IDK if I can justify giving the organization my money. I have friends up there that I told I'd visit, so I might make the trip this weekend, but IDK about the game.

bucfan12
11-07-2011, 07:24 AM
From the law point of view, Joe Paterno did what he what he was supposed to do in reporting the incident to the Athletic Director, whom he trusted to do the right thing. Unfortunately, they covered it up and the incident progressed.

However, Joe Paterno knew nothing was being done and he did nothing. Morally, I thought Joe Paterno was a good guy and honors character. This really dissapoints me because I am a Penn State grad as well and loved the game atmosphere. I don't know what to think of this. The fact that Joe Paterno knew he(Sandusky) was getting away with this after nothing was done is shocking and disappointing.

I think he's got no other choice but to step down. It's a shame because this will now follow him and his coaching legacy.

Grizzlegom
11-07-2011, 08:44 AM
http://blog.pennlive.com/patriotnewssports/2011/11/commentary_penn_state_official.html

This is the best article I've found out there. Fully sums up basically how all of Nittany Lion Nation feels right now.

keylime_5
11-07-2011, 09:55 AM
i'm just curious, why does all this stuff suddenly just come out now if it all happened so long ago? interesting how things like this work out timing-wise.

jrdrylie
11-07-2011, 10:01 AM
Finally got around to reading the entire Grand Jury idictment, here are my thoughts.

Jerry Sandusky is going to die in prison. He faces a life sentence. He probably won't get that. But with all the victim and witness testimony, anything under 50 years in prison would be a travesty.

Joe Paterno probbaly didn't break any laws. He did report it. But what he did was ethically wrong. Go to the police. Ban this guy from the campus. Don't give him free access to secluded areas of the school where he can continue to be a scum bag. Paterno should retire today.

The Graduate Assistant did the right thing for the most part. But as soon as the athletic director told him that the only thing that happened was Sandusky had his keys taken away from him, he should have gone to the police. Having your keys taken away from you is not appropriate punishment for anally raping a young boy.

Tim Curley should go to jail. He covered up a disgusting crime. He lied under oath. Because of him, more young men fell victim to Sandusky. The same goes for Schultz. He oversaw the university police. It is his responsibility to report actions like these.

Long story short, Penn State needs to clean house. Joe Pa needs to be gone now. So does University President Graham Spanier. Tim Curley and George Schultz have already resigned. The NCAA and/or Big Ten need to come down hard on PSU. This is worse than recruiting violations, paying players, and fudging grades. Scholarships should be lost. A bowl ban instituted. Fines. You name it.

BuckeyeDan17
11-07-2011, 10:38 AM
Holy Christ never in my life have I seen anything like this. I don't have much room to talk as an Ohio State fan, but wow, we're talking ******* psychological trauma to these kids for the rest of their lives, because the University had to be protected, at the expense of children being victimized.

I hope a group of dudes give him a huge taste of his own medicine in a Pennsylvania state prison.

JoeJoeBrown
11-07-2011, 11:16 AM
sandusky DA went missing in 2005. (http://www.centredaily.com/2011/11/06/2976046/gricar-had-final-say-in-ending.html)

He disappeared and his hard drive was thrown into the water.

I'm sorry that's just too creepy for me.

TimD
11-07-2011, 12:20 PM
im hearing rumors that Urban Meyer bought real estate near state college. cya JoePa

ElectricEye
11-07-2011, 12:30 PM
Deadspin summed things up fairly well. (http://deadspin.com/5857014/jerry-sandusky-joe-paterno-and-the-failure-of-adult-institutions-everywhere)

This is bad enough as it is. There's a chance there's more to this story still to come too.

BuckeyeDan17
11-07-2011, 12:40 PM
So if he doesn't resign before the bowl game would you say he gets the axe?

FUNBUNCHER
11-07-2011, 12:50 PM
I don't think the Big Ten conference or the NCAA needs to take away scholarships or ban PSU from bowl games. So much hell is going to come down on Penn State from lawsuits filed by those victims who were sexually assaulted by Sandusky on PSU's campus that things will eventually get sorted out on their own.

In my mind I'm trying to separate this crap from the actual football program and its current players.
But it's hard.

Penn State got the nickname 'Linebacker U.' in large part because of Sandusky. He may have been the most esteemed coach/personality associated with PSU other than Paterno.

There are dark days ahead for the Nittany Lions, and as a huge fan of that program it hurts to even contemplate this.

JoeJoeBrown
11-07-2011, 12:56 PM
Big 12??? Wrong conference.

And lol at urban Meyer going to psu.

No way would anyone want to walk into that clusterfak. No parent will let their kid go there until everyone is gone from the old regime.

A big name coach would need $8m per season to resurrect that program.

JoeJoeBrown
11-07-2011, 01:01 PM
Sandusky was working out at psu last week.

Idiots (http://rivals.yahoo.com/ncaa/football/news?slug=dw-wetzel_sandusky_penn_state_presence_last_week11071 1)

TimD
11-07-2011, 01:15 PM
There are dark days ahead for the Nittany Lions, and as a huge fan of that program it's hurts to even contemplate this.

simply put... this sucks.

and shame on the people (including those trolling this thread) for taking any degree of satisfaction from this scandal. 8+ guys (who are now our age) were victims to a sick monster. this type of **** makes me lose faith in humanity

JoeJoeBrown
11-07-2011, 01:19 PM
simply put... this sucks.

and shame on the people (including those trolling this thread) for taking any degree of satisfaction from this scandal. 8+ guys (who are now our age) were victims to a sick monster. this type of **** makes me lose faith in humanity

I don't see anyone trolling. This is a human travesty. There are undoubtedly many more victims. What's very sad about the victims of a crime like this is that many feel great shame and never will tell anyone about this.

That's a huge burden to live with. So sad.

Complex
11-07-2011, 01:29 PM
im hearing rumors that Urban Meyer bought real estate near state college. cya JoePa

Lol if you think Meyer is going to be the next HC at Penn State.

Grizzlegom
11-07-2011, 01:34 PM
I'd be SHOCKED if Joe steps down in the next couple weeks. No way he steps down midseason or doesn't finish it, in my opinion. All indications were he was retiring following this season anyway (Urban Meyer has been at multiple practices, working with the QBs and supposedly bought a house already, don't do that stuff unless you are planning on taking over). Not sure Urban Meyer will still be the successor but I do think he'll finish the season.

I also think that there's nothing the NCAA can do. As far as I can tell, there were no NCAA violations that occurred here so the people calling for the death penalty, sanctions in any way, vacated wins, etc. are going to be disappointed.

JoeJoeBrown
11-07-2011, 01:43 PM
I'd be SHOCKED if Joe steps down in the next couple weeks. No way he steps down midseason or doesn't finish it, in my opinion. All indications were he was retiring following this season anyway (Urban Meyer has been at multiple practices, working with the QBs and supposedly bought a house already, don't do that stuff unless you are planning on taking over). Not sure Urban Meyer will still be the successor but I do think he'll finish the season.

I also think that there's nothing the NCAA can do. As far as I can tell, there were no NCAA violations that occurred here so the people calling for the death penalty, sanctions in any way, vacated wins, etc. are going to be disappointed.

Totally agree that the NCAA had no jurisdiction. I want the b1G to pressure psu to clean house but that is unlikely to happen either. The state might come down on psu if they don't move quickly, however. Taxpayers aren't going to stand for this.

If Meyer was coming before its not happening anymore.

eaglesalltheway
11-07-2011, 02:16 PM
simply put... this sucks.

and shame on the people (including those trolling this thread) for taking any degree of satisfaction from this scandal. 8+ guys (who are now our age) were victims to a sick monster. this type of **** makes me lose faith in humanity

There was a guy (an OSU fan) who I know, who put up a status joking about it, saying he finds it funny PSU won't be able to find recruits anymore. (Besides the main point). So I commented that there is nothing funny about a grown man raping little boys and any jokes about it are tasteless and immature... It took all of 45 seconds after my post was up for him to delete the status. Douche.

Anyone else find it somewhat strange that here, where pedophilia is as much of a joke as CJ's age or vikes' gingerness, but when it comes down to real ****, we can muster up the maturity to actually talk (somewhat) civilly about it. Well done, my fellow supposedly immature bastards...

Grizzlegom
11-07-2011, 02:36 PM
Totally agree that the NCAA had no jurisdiction. I want the b1G to pressure psu to clean house but that is unlikely to happen either. The state might come down on psu if they don't move quickly, however. Taxpayers aren't going to stand for this.

If Meyer was coming before its not happening anymore.

Yea, I'm not holding my breathe for Meyer anymore. One interesting note though, Penn State is actually a pseudo-state school. While they do receive funding from the state, the majority of their funding comes from endowments and donations from their alumni (largest alumni association in the country). Penn State has bullied the state for years regarding funding because the state needs to provide funding so they can benefit from Penn State just as much as Penn State needs the funding. Long story short, the taxpayers don't really have a whole lot of say in Penn State's administration and such.

One other note, Graham Spanier is the President of the BCS Oversight Committee and unlike Joe Paterno, Spanier didn't exactly get a ringing endorsement from the AG. When asked if Spanier was a target in the investigation, the attorney general replied with "This is an ongoing investigation."

WCH
11-07-2011, 02:47 PM
One interesting note though, Penn State is actually a pseudo-state school. While they do receive funding from the state, the majority of their funding comes from endowments and donations from their alumni (largest alumni association in the country).

A significant portion of alumni donations will dry up if they don't clean house. This program and administration (including the President of the University) just became toxic.

It's still a great school and it'll continue to be a great school, but anybody who can be even tangentially linked to this scandal probably has to be shown the door.

I also think that the Paterno will come out of this with his reputation fairly unscathed, but there's no way McQueary comes out of this looking okay. His reputation is probably toast.

JoeJoeBrown
11-07-2011, 02:49 PM
Yea, I'm not holding my breathe for Meyer anymore. One interesting note though, Penn State is actually a pseudo-state school. While they do receive funding from the state, the majority of their funding comes from endowments and donations from their alumni (largest alumni association in the country). Penn State has bullied the state for years regarding funding because the state needs to provide funding so they can benefit from Penn State just as much as Penn State needs the funding. Long story short, the taxpayers don't really have a whole lot of say in Penn State's administration and such.

One other note, Graham Spanier is the President of the BCS Oversight Committee and unlike Joe Paterno, Spanier didn't exactly get a ringing endorsement from the AG. When asked if Spanier was a target in the investigation, the attorney general replied with "This is an ongoing investigation."

Great stuff. Please continue to give us the good inside info.

JoeJoeBrown
11-07-2011, 02:56 PM
TimDris seems to think that I'm throwing a party. I'm not. This is the biggest travesty in modern cfb since the Marshall team died in a crash.

It needs to be discussed. I am livid at the institutional corruption and others are as well. I hope the house gets cleaned up quickly.

I do agree with him in the nasty gram that he sent me that I am an ahole. But that has nothing to do with this thread.

jrdrylie
11-07-2011, 02:58 PM
If I'm Meyer, I don't want to be any part of this. His other logical option is Ohio State. They too are in a bit of hot water. But I'd much rather deal with the fallout of paying football players than the fallout from raping children.

Grizzlegom
11-07-2011, 03:21 PM
I've heard rumors of Meyer to the NFL (ironically I've heard Stephen Ross wants him in Miami), Penn State, Ohio State, and we'll probably hear more to every team that has a coaching opening this year. Wouldn't be surprised if he stays in retirement either...

As a Penn Stater, these two articles hit home soooo hard. Obviously written by PSU students but just wanted to share how some current students are feeling...

http://onwardstate.com/2011/11/07/dont-blame-joe/

http://onwardstate.com/2011/11/07/how-penn-state-broke-my-heart/

JoeJoeBrown
11-07-2011, 04:39 PM
I've heard rumors of Meyer to the NFL (ironically I've heard Stephen Ross wants him in Miami), Penn State, Ohio State, and we'll probably hear more to every team that has a coaching opening this year. Wouldn't be surprised if he stays in retirement either...

As a Penn Stater, these two articles hit home soooo hard. Obviously written by PSU students but just wanted to share how some current students are feeling...

http://onwardstate.com/2011/11/07/dont-blame-joe/

http://onwardstate.com/2011/11/07/how-penn-state-broke-my-heart/

It has to absolutely blow to be a student right now. A living legend is getting rocked and your school administrators are embroiled in some of the nastiest scandal you can have.

Alums can do something about it. Pressure on donations (since you mentioned that they fund the school so much) is number one. But a student really has little power.

WRT Meyer, I don't see him coaching in the near future, either. PSU and OSU are hot on the rumor mill but don't make much sense to me.

TimD
11-07-2011, 04:48 PM
sorry joe, its just that (like eaglesalltheway said) there have been some terrible anti-psu stuff out there since the news broke, and its not like the student body is taking this lightly. we dont want to be associated with those crimes anymore than JoePa does. its just an awful situation.

i didnt come to this school because of their football program, but id be lying if i said it wasnt one of my favorite aspects of penn state. as far as im concerned, other than the scumbags being accused/investigated, the penn state football community shouldnt be viewed in a negative light. we welcome opposing fans to our tailgates, rarely boo refs/other teams, and used to pride ourselves on a great atmosphere surrounding our program. it sucks a few monsters ruined it. now the school MUST clean house and start anew.

TimD
11-07-2011, 04:59 PM
i dont know if ive said this in here yet.. i read the 23 page report and it was one of the most horrifying things ive ever laid my eyes on. as a big brother and cousin, i cannot imagine how the victims and their families are dealing with this. i hope that the school stops aiding the assholes who allegedly covered this up, and start devoting time and resources to the victims' needs

JoeJoeBrown
11-07-2011, 05:03 PM
sorry joe, its just that (like eaglesalltheway said) there have been some terrible anti-psu stuff out there since the news broke, and its not like the student body is taking this lightly. we dont want to be associated with those crimes anymore than JoePa does. its just an awful situation.

i didnt come to this school because of their football program, but id be lying if i said it wasnt one of my favorite aspects of penn state. as far as im concerned, other than the scumbags being accused/investigated, the penn state football community shouldnt be viewed in a negative light. we welcome opposing fans to our tailgates, rarely boo refs/other teams, and used to pride ourselves on a great atmosphere surrounding our program. it sucks a few monsters ruined it. now the school MUST clean house and start anew.

Apology accepted :) It's a rotten situation that is highly emotionally charged. I'd likely be much less civil at that time in my life.

No one should be mocking PSU fans, alums, or students. That's pathetic.

Rabscuttle
11-07-2011, 05:24 PM
It is reassuring to see that the PSU fans/alums that are responding here are taking this seriously and aren't attacking the victims which is so often the case when an institution comes under scrutiny.

I lose a lot of faith in humanity when I see how the catholic church and other entities treat victims and protect molestors. What we seem to be seeing here is some rogues with a lot of power acting from behind a veil and keeping information from a community that would rather have this dealt with properly from the start.

I feel for you guys having your school associated with this, but you are showing character that gives me hope that at some point others will think to do the right thing from the start knowing they have the backing of their community.

I will try to be respectful when discussing this. It is a very emotional issue for me having family and friends that are victims of pediphiles. These crimes often do damage that is lifelong and reaches far beyond a single degenerats personal victims.

Ness
11-07-2011, 05:28 PM
http://www.ngngsports.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/joe-paterno.jpg

Shane P. Hallam
11-07-2011, 05:36 PM
Totally agree that the NCAA had no jurisdiction.

I wouldn't be overly surprised if they get involved if Sandusky is found guilty. With part of the crime occurring while Sandusky was an NCAA coach, they could try to get involved if they choose to.

JoeJoeBrown
11-07-2011, 05:51 PM
I wouldn't be overly surprised if they get involved if Sandusky is found guilty. With part of the crime occurring while Sandusky was an NCAA coach, they could try to get involved if they choose to.

On what basis, though? What NCAA rule? I don't know the rule book so there may be something in there. I guess it would be something to do with illegal behaviors?

FUNBUNCHER
11-07-2011, 06:03 PM
No need for the NCAA to grandstand on this one, especially if one of their officials heard rumors about Sandusky years ago.

At the end of this scandal, I think it will be discovered that Paterno knew more about this suspected pedophile on his coaching staff and the best Paterno could do, or chose to do, was force Sandusky to retire with full benefits as one of the program's most respected figures after reporting allegations of sexual misconduct by one of his grad assistants to University adminstrators.

Ness
11-07-2011, 06:46 PM
I think Joe Paterno should step down. He's going to have a press conference tomorrow and he won't be able to not answer the media tomorrow about the allegations, which is probably going to take up the entire conference. What a terrible way to go out. But he should have followed up on this instead of doing what he was legally bound to do. I don't know how you can feel comfortable with this guy around for another six or so years. I'm not a big college football fan, but this goes beyond football. Regardless of what Paterno has done on the field as a coach, as a person with a good or even decent moral sense of character we all want folks to have in this day and age, he should have done more.

yodabear
11-07-2011, 06:47 PM
Paterno stepping down/being fired....yes. The whole jail thing, a little extreme. Sandusky, if found guilty, needs to rot. Hate to see the Paterno career end this way.

Giantsfan1080
11-07-2011, 06:55 PM
How could Paterno let him come to a closed practice with little boys and not say anything after he had already known what this ass was capable of. I can't believe Paterno hasn't stepped down yet. This whole thing is very sickening to say the least.

descendency
11-07-2011, 07:06 PM
But a student really has little power.

If you think a student protest won't be heard at this point, you're wrong. carry signs to the game with messages on them directed at the situation.

I guarantee you that Penn State wants to do whatever will expunge this from their standing right now.

Punisher
11-07-2011, 07:08 PM
As if there is not a big dark cloud over college football. Reading that report made me absolutely cringe inside. How did the police not stop him after being caught in the shower and confessing the first time through the parent?

How does a wife take to this? Does he have kids?

Antoine Dodson warned us of people like this.

Grizzlegom
11-07-2011, 07:16 PM
How does a wife take to this? Does he have kids?

He has a wife and 6 adopted kids.

Saints-Tigers
11-07-2011, 07:30 PM
He has a wife and 6 adopted kids.

..............****...

Rabscuttle
11-07-2011, 07:37 PM
Oh yeah, the story gets more disgusting as it unfolds. Do you cry or throwup?

jrdrylie
11-07-2011, 07:40 PM
He has a wife and 6 adopted kids.

I wonder if Sandusky did anything inappropriate with his own children. I really hope not, but after reading that report, it wouldn't surprise me.

ElectricEye
11-07-2011, 07:52 PM
Yeah, I was wondering that as well when I was reading it. One of his sons works in the Browns organization or something, right?


Just about as ugly as it can possibly get, unfortunately. As far as the NCAA is concerned, it wouldn't surprise me if they jumped in on this because of how close Sandusky was to the athletic program and some of it taking place during his tenure as a coach. I'm not sure it would be right and it certainly shouldn't bring anyone peace or retribution from this, but how often does the NCAA do the right thing? These guys are all going to jail for a very long time. Taking away a few scholarships from the freaking football team kind of seems self important and childish when you are dealing with something like this.

keylime_5
11-07-2011, 10:11 PM
I honestly want to know why this didn't come out when JoePa was tipped off/tipped off his AD and VP. I can see that they probably wanted to keep it under wraps to avoid scandal at Penn State (which is sick on their part if that's true), but why didn't Paterno come out at expose the coverup? It's not like they could fire Paterno for doing thatt. A lot of the details to this don't make sense to me, it's very messed up. Letting a guy get away with raping kids is about as low as you can humanly get.

(edit) after seeing what Paterno let Sandusky do after the complaints and incidents in 98 and 02, I can see why some people are saying he should get fired or even go to jail. it's very screwed up.

JoeJoeBrown
11-07-2011, 10:20 PM
I honestly want to know why this didn't come out when JoePa was tipped off/tipped off his AD and VP. I can see that they probably wanted to keep it under wraps to avoid scandal at Penn State (which is sick on their part if that's true), but why didn't Paterno come out at expose the coverup? It's not like they could fire Paterno for doing thatt. A lot of the details to this don't make sense to me, it's very messed up. Letting a guy get away with raping kids is about as low as you can humanly get.

The only thing that I can come up with is that Sandusky had some blackmail of some sort on PSU or JoePa.

kontrolluz
11-08-2011, 12:40 AM
get him booted from his job. There's no way he should be allowed to coach another game after this. How a recruit, or a recruits mom, could ever trust him to look out for the players best interest is beyond me.

Ness
11-08-2011, 05:02 AM
Just listened to Jim Rome. He burned Paterno bad.

Prowler
11-08-2011, 05:52 AM
Reminds me of this.

http://nbcsports.msnbc.com/id/10766548/

“There’s some tough — there’s so many people gravitating to these kids. He may not have even known what he was getting into, Nicholson. They knock on the door; somebody may knock on the door; a cute girl knocks on the door. What do you do?”

Naked tickle fight in showers, what else is Sandusky to do?

He's old and very outdated. Paterno has no values and is just a mascot that represents Penn State. PSU is better than Paterno. Losing him would be no big deal.

**oh yeah and I remember this episode too**

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/otl/news/story?id=3504915

Fair criticism or not, its a terrible downward spiral that showcases an exceeding lack of judgement and attention demanded of college coaches.

FUNBUNCHER
11-08-2011, 06:27 AM
Sandusky's behavior IMO is separate from the program. Being an open pedophile doesn't reflect a greater permissiveness throughout the PSU football team.
If this had been a player or assistant coach, they would have been arrested in the middle of practice the minute these allegations came out.

The only real concern I have is whether or not Paterno shielded arguably his best friend on his coaching staff from criminal prosecution.

It's almost like getting caught for embezzling funds from your job after working there for 30 years, and instead of being fired and arrested, you're allowed to 'retire' with full benefits.

It will be very interesting to hear what Penn State's AD and University President say the next time they're under oath, and whether or not they implicate Paterno.

Prowler
11-08-2011, 06:58 AM
Sandusky's behavior IMO is separate from the program. Being an open pedophile doesn't reflect a greater permissiveness throughout the PSU football team.
If this had been a player or assistant coach, they would have been arrested in the middle of practice the minute these allegations came out.


What about victims 4-6? Promised walk on spot on the team, and was heavily involved in the team during the sexual assaults while Sandusky was still DC.

And Detective Schreffler is absolutely terrible and represented University Police. It reflects on the school, the decision makers, and that tarnishes the team.

FUNBUNCHER
11-08-2011, 07:44 AM
When I say separate from the program, IMO there isn't a 'culture' at Penn State that allows someone like Sandusky to exist.

Paterno is the face of PSU football and the university in general, but if he died tomorrow, the Nitanny Lions wouldn't quit playing D1 football.

The program is the players, always. They didn't have any control over what Paterno, the AD and University president allowed Sandusky to do.

I know its a thin line of demarcation and I don't know if I'm explaining it clearly.

Sandusky is the guy who personally coached HOFer Jack Ham, Shane Conlan and Lavar Arrington, among other stellar Penn State 'backers.
WTF happened to this guy??
Or was he always predisposed this way??

eaglesalltheway
11-08-2011, 07:45 AM
The more I think about this, the more and more I am bothered.

While we are on the topic of police... There HAD to have been member(s) of the police force that knew things and did nothing as well. Now I'm not going to sit here and badmouth any one officer in particular or the entire force, as a whole, but someone knew something. Anyone directly involved in keeping it quiet, whether it be through funneling money, etc to victims to hush them, money, etc to the police/district attorney's office to influence reports, or whatever, members of law enforcement knew as well, and did nothing, and those guys should be held as accountable as Spanier/Schultz/Curley in court.

eaglesalltheway
11-08-2011, 07:48 AM
When I say separate from the program, IMO there isn't a 'culture' at Penn State that allows someone like Sandusky to exist.

Paterno is the face of PSU football and the university in general, but if he died tomorrow, the Nitanny Lions wouldn't quit playing D1 football.

The program is the players, always. They didn't have any control over what Paterno, the AD and University president allowed Sandusky to do.

I know its a thin line of demarcation and I don't know if I'm explaining it clearly.

Sandusky is the guy who personally coached HOFer Jack Ham, Shane Conlan and Lavar Arrington, among other stellar Penn State 'backers.
WTF happened to this guy??
Or was he always predisposed this way??
You don't just grow up and become a child molester, he has to have something wrong with him, whether its some **** in his brain or a traumatic childhood experience (not that anything like that makes it ok in any means) that made him this way. I highly doubt he woke up one day as a "man" and thought to himself that now would be a good time to see what children are like. Its disgusting, and I'm pissed off by it.

WCH
11-08-2011, 07:53 AM
What about victims 4-6? Promised walk on spot on the team, and was heavily involved in the team during the sexual assaults while Sandusky was still DC.

And Detective Schreffler is absolutely terrible and represented University Police. It reflects on the school, the decision makers, and that tarnishes the team.

For those who want to defend Paterno or Penn State's athletic department, there are a lot of problematic allegations in that Grand Jury report; and things get worse with each passing day. Yesterday, for instance, we found out that Sandusky was working out in the teams weight room a recently as last week.

It really looks like the people running the football program and athletic department really just didn't give a ****, and were too stupid/arrogant to figure out that the game was coming to an end and the cover-up had failed.

At least Paterno and McQueary were (apparently) smart/noble enough to tell the truth in their testimony, or else they'd be facing prison time along with the rest of these guys.

WCH
11-08-2011, 08:05 AM
You don't just grow up and become a child molester, he has to have something wrong with him, whether its some **** in his brain or a traumatic childhood experience (not that anything like that makes it ok in any means) that made him this way. I highly doubt he woke up one day as a "man" and thought to himself that now would be a good time to see what children are like. Its disgusting, and I'm pissed off by it.

This. Asking what happened to him is like asking what happened to Dahmer or Bundy. The guy is just screwed up in the brain. Normal, sane people don't do these things. Hell, even the vast majority of insane people wouldn't dream of doing these things. Sandusky is in his mid/late 60's? I'd be willing to bet that he's been molesting children, to some degree or another, for 40+ years.

I fully expect more victims to come out of the woodwork in the next few weeks. I wouldn't be tremendously shocked if some former recruits speak out.

Giantsfan1080
11-08-2011, 08:12 AM
McQueary is just as bad as anyone in all of this. He sees this perv molesting a little boy and doesn't do a thing about it? He just turns around and doesn't try to stop it. That's a terrible terrible thing to let happen. He didn't even report it right away and had to have a talk with his dad as to whether he should report to someone higher up.

Prowler
11-08-2011, 08:26 AM
McQueary is just as bad as anyone in all of this. He sees this perv molesting a little boy and doesn't do a thing about it? He just turns around and doesn't try to stop it. That's a terrible terrible thing to let happen. He didn't even report it right away and had to have a talk with his dad as to whether he should report to someone higher up.

This, and straight from the mouth of one of the victim's mother.

http://www.pennlive.com/midstate/index.ssf/2011/11/mothers_of_two_of_jerry_sandus.html

“I don’t even have words to talk about the betrayal that I feel,” said the mom of Victim Six. “[McQueary] was a grown man, and he saw a boy being sodomized ... He ran and called his daddy?”

That was all about saving his own ass at the time. It apparently even paid off. If most of us see a kid being raped, we'd probably beat the living hell out of the guy and live with the consequences even if we get sent to jail for killing the guy. McQueary's actions look like positioning. He did report it, and was told that other authorities of some degree were notified, but he still saw Sandusky in the locker room and at facilities....how was he not bothered?

Ness
11-08-2011, 08:33 AM
McQueary is just as bad as anyone in all of this. He sees this perv molesting a little boy and doesn't do a thing about it? He just turns around and doesn't try to stop it. That's a terrible terrible thing to let happen. He didn't even report it right away and had to have a talk with his dad as to whether he should report to someone higher up.

I was thinking about this. And I'm kind of indifferent about it. First off, how old was McQueary at the time? I heard he was 22? I'm not sure if that is correct, but we all weren't there and we all don't know exactly what he saw and how clear he saw something. It's easy for all of us to sit back in our chairs behind our computers not knowing what went down and say he should have saved the day. But unfortunately we weren't there and we don't know the degree of what he witnessed. Perhaps he was unsure of what he saw, or it didn't hit him until later. If he definitely saw what he saw and had the state of mind to do something about it, but consciously made a decision to do nothing, then that is wrong.

Prowler
11-08-2011, 08:37 AM
Well, according to page 6 of the testimony(available on 1st post in thread), he was 28 years old at the time...heard rhythmic slapping sounds coming from the showers, proceeded into the area, and then actually saw the intercourse...

FUNBUNCHER
11-08-2011, 08:41 AM
McQueary said he saw Sandusky butt ******* a 10 year old in the showers in the grand jury report.
Instead of thinking about the welfare of that kid, he was worried too much about losing his job.

Seeing Sandusky anally violating a kid in the PSU showers was almost the equivalent of seeing JoePa raping someone. McQueary was scared for himself more so than the child IMO.

Remember McQueary went to the showers to investigate what sounded like two people having sex.
He was right, they were.

Ness
11-08-2011, 08:47 AM
Oh I didn't see the link to the report. I'll read it.

In any case, why the hell would McQueary be afraid for his job? Being at the scene I couldn't imagine thinking that stopping what was going on was going to get me fired. I suppose he thought Sandusky would have some kind of leverage? I don't get it.

Giantsfan1080
11-08-2011, 08:57 AM
Oh I didn't see the link to the report. I'll read it.

In any case, why the hell would McQueary be afraid for his job? Being at the scene I couldn't imagine thinking that stopping what was going on was going to get me fired. I suppose he thought Sandusky would have some kind of leverage? I don't get it.

And this is why he's just as bad as the rest hence my little rant.

ElectricEye
11-08-2011, 09:15 AM
The more I think about this, the more and more I am bothered.

While we are on the topic of police... There HAD to have been member(s) of the police force that knew things and did nothing as well. Now I'm not going to sit here and badmouth any one officer in particular or the entire force, as a whole, but someone knew something. Anyone directly involved in keeping it quiet, whether it be through funneling money, etc to victims to hush them, money, etc to the police/district attorney's office to influence reports, or whatever, members of law enforcement knew as well, and did nothing, and those guys should be held as accountable as Spanier/Schultz/Curley in court.

This is an interesting point. I'm not sure there's a whole lot they could have done given the circumstances, but there had to be some inclination that this guy was a sexual predator. Certainly had to be after that 1998 stuff(not sure if posted or not, but this was pretty creepy (http://thebiglead.com/index.php/2011/11/07/why-did-the-district-attorney-in-pennsylvania-not-pursue-a-case-against-jerry-sandusky-in-1998/)). As far as payouts go, I'm not sure we can jump there quite yet, but I think there's some more to this that hasn't come out, especially with the number of victims involved and how long it went on. I certainly hope there isn't, but it just seems like an incomplete picture right now.


McQueary is just as bad as anyone in all of this. He sees this perv molesting a little boy and doesn't do a thing about it? He just turns around and doesn't try to stop it. That's a terrible terrible thing to let happen. He didn't even report it right away and had to have a talk with his dad as to whether he should report to someone higher up.
Yeah, I'm with you on this one. I'm not going to pretend I know what I would do in those circumstances or undermine it with roleplaying, but I would like to think that anyone would do a little more. I can't think of anything worse that someone could be doing than sodomizing a child. I would like to think that anyone would do a little more than run away and notify the chain of command. I'm not sure how he, or anyone else who had knowledge of it, was able to stand letting this guy walk around the entire time since after that. Let alone conduct camps with children affiliated with the university. Absolutely sickening.

Brodeur
11-08-2011, 10:04 AM
I'm the most calm and rational guy in the world, but I'd go ballistic on a guy or at the very least call the cops the absolute second I saw something like that happen. McQueary calling his dad makes a selfish coward, but I figured that went without saying.

JoeJoeBrown
11-08-2011, 10:10 AM
This is an interesting point. I'm not sure there's a whole lot they could have done given the circumstances, but there had to be some inclination that this guy was a sexual predator. Certainly had to be after that 1998 stuff(not sure if posted or not, but this was pretty creepy (http://thebiglead.com/index.php/2011/11/07/why-did-the-district-attorney-in-pennsylvania-not-pursue-a-case-against-jerry-sandusky-in-1998/)). As far as payouts go, I'm not sure we can jump there quite yet, but I think there's some more to this that hasn't come out, especially with the number of victims involved and how long it went on. I certainly hope there isn't, but it just seems like an incomplete picture right now.


The 1998 case is disturbing.

-The DA dropped charges after Sandusky all but admitted buggering the lady's son.
-The lawyer representing PSU pushed the DA and campus police to drop the investigation. That lawyer is now the chief legal counsel for Sandusky's charity.
-The DA disappeared and his hard drive was thrown in water to destroy the evidence.
-The lead detective on the case advised Sandusky not to shower with little boys anymore after Sandusky admitted to bear hugging one in the shower.
-Sandusky was forced out but left to have free reign on campus with little boys in tow.
-JoePa gave a one minute speech at Sandusky's retirement party. This indicates that he knew what was up.

The whole thing stinks of a massive coverup from that point, not 2002.

This is why I conjectured before that some massive influence was given to suppress the investigation into Sandusky. I'm thinking that he blackmailed JoePa and/or PSU. He knew the inner workings of the program and obviously knew whatever dirt there was.

yodabear
11-08-2011, 10:17 AM
Oh I didn't see the link to the report. I'll read it.

In any case, why the hell would McQueary be afraid for his job? Being at the scene I couldn't imagine thinking that stopping what was going on was going to get me fired. I suppose he thought Sandusky would have some kind of leverage? I don't get it.

Mind you I have only skimmed it but its disgusting man. When there talking about the victims its like a porno script and thats freeking disgusting. And it goes in to very much detail where I don't think people would be making this up making me think Sandusky is guilty.

JoeJoeBrown
11-08-2011, 10:20 AM
Another alleged victim just came in from the cold.

I hope Sandusky offs himself to just get this over with sooner than later and dragging these poor people through the emotional ringer to convict him.

ElectricEye
11-08-2011, 10:54 AM
Joe Pa just cancelled his news conference that was scheduled today like 20 minutes before it was supposed to happen. Wonder if that means anything in regards to stories about further negligence that went on at Penn State or in regards to him potentially resigning.

keylime_5
11-08-2011, 11:00 AM
that or they realize that every question will be about the scandal, and they want to avoid so many trap questions.

WCH
11-08-2011, 11:05 AM
Lavar Arrington had this, among other things, to say:
“I know Mike [McQueary]. Mike was my quarterback,” Arrington said.

”I know him. So I’m trying to understand, how do you, and again, maybe he felt as though it would be better suited if it came from Coach Paterno. … I’m going to tell you right now, I gotta stop that [assault].

”Even if it’s, ‘Coach [Sandusky], I gotta stop you. … I gotta take this to Coach Paterno right now’. This is not good, oh my gosh, this is not good.”

Arrington added: “The natural instinct that would kick in, if I saw a child being violated, and I don’t care who they are, I don’t care who the person is that would be doing that. If you’re an adult and you are violating a child, all reputations, all everything, all that goes out the door.

“If that was Coach Paterno, like, ‘Coach, what are you doing? … You gotta come, you gotta come sit your [butt] down right here, I’m calling the cops’.”
http://collegefootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/11/08/lavar-arrington-moved-to-tears-over-sandusky-allegations/

More and more people are wondering WTF is wrong with McQueary. It's one thing to not stop the guy and help the kid, but to not even call the cops? Come on...Like I said yesterday, his reputation is toast.

I hope he's okay with coaching Division III football.

Grizzlegom
11-08-2011, 11:20 AM
Joe Pa just cancelled his news conference that was scheduled today like 20 minutes before it was supposed to happen. Wonder if that means anything in regards to stories about further negligence that went on at Penn State or in regards to him potentially resigning.

For the record, Spanier cancelled it without asking JoePa. Joe wanted to do it.

Also, http://www.nytimes.com/2011/11/09/sports/ncaafootball/penn-state-said-to-be-planning-paternos-exit.html?src=tp

Giantsfan1080
11-08-2011, 11:20 AM
AP reporting Joe Paterno "disappointed" that Spannier cancelled press conference. Was looking forward to discuss "implications of the scandal" and "the upcoming Nebraska game. Kind of weird.

ElectricEye
11-08-2011, 11:23 AM
Also, http://www.nytimes.com/2011/11/09/sports/ncaafootball/penn-state-said-to-be-planning-paternos-exit.html?src=tp

Yeah, I just saw that. Honestly; that's the right thing to do. I'm not even sure if it's appropriate for him to last the rest of the season. Cancelling that news conference probably has a lot to do with figuring out the best way to completely clean the house out.

Giantsfan1080
11-08-2011, 11:31 AM
PSU starting process to fire Paterno:

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/11/09/sports/ncaafootball/penn-state-said-to-be-planning-paternos-exit.html?_r=1&ref=ncaafootball

Grizzlegom
11-08-2011, 11:39 AM
Matt Millen.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ix4jlXNDd8

Laugh if you want but this is how all of Nittany Nation feels right now.

Smooth Criminal
11-08-2011, 11:41 AM
Fire Paterno? Are they gonna hire a new mascot to replace him? Certainly won't need to replace any of his coaching

Philliez01
11-08-2011, 11:46 AM
I still can't get over how sickening this is. Like this is nightmare worthy. This has to be one of the sickest sports stories to ever come out.

Hines
11-08-2011, 11:47 AM
PSU starting process to fire Paterno:

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/11/09/sports/ncaafootball/penn-state-said-to-be-planning-paternos-exit.html?_r=1&ref=ncaafootball

Should have happened years ago, but glad that it might actually happen. Just sad it had to end this way..

JoeJoeBrown
11-08-2011, 11:56 AM
Wtf is up with the sick ahole taping millen laughing at him crying?

What if someone you worked for and respected and mentored you for decades turned out to have such a huge moral failing? I'm sure most of these ex players are in shock at joepas inaction and immoral handling of sandusky's behavior.

Worldviews are being rocked here about something serious. Yet there are sick people laughing about it.

WCH
11-08-2011, 11:57 AM
Matt Millen.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ix4jlXNDd8

Laugh if you want but this is how all of Nittany Nation feels right now.

I don't see anything funny. Sandusky was not only the coach of hundreds, maybe thousands of Penn State players, he was trusted by the University to go on recruiting visits. He sat in the living rooms of 16 year old kids, looked their mothers in the eye, and told them that he could be trusted to help mold these kids into men.

I don't blame alumni for being distraught. I don't even want to think about how his former players feel.

JoeJoeBrown
11-08-2011, 11:59 AM
Should have happened years ago, but glad that it might actually happen. Just sad it had to end this way..

I think the common thread here is JoePa's arrogance and need for control.

He thought that he could contain Sandusky.

He has refused to retire for the benefit of psu even though the game has passed him by long ago.

MaxV
11-08-2011, 12:15 PM
Just a very depressing situation.

LDC
11-08-2011, 12:17 PM
People who I feel bad for.

1.These 8 (probably more) victims and their families.
2. Penn State fans.

As an OSU fan I can sympathize with what it feels like to have your school's name suddenly tarnished, it doesn't feel good. However, at the end of the day it's just football, it can't begin to compare to how these victims and their families feel. Although I'm sure some will, I hope other fans don't use this as an opportunity to pile up on the Penn State fan base, it's not their fault they deserve better.

That said, I can't defend JoePa, McQueary or the top PSU brass. In a situation that screams for a moral and upright person to do the most, they did just enough to protect themselves and the university name, leaving vulnerable the most innocent, those who needed protection the most. Inexcusable, and shameful is all that comes to mind, but that falls short of trying to describe this injustice.

JoeJoeBrown
11-08-2011, 12:45 PM
People who I feel bad for.

1.These 8 (probably more) victims and their families.
2. Penn State fans.

As an OSU fan I can sympathize with what it feels like to have your school's name suddenly tarnished, it doesn't feel good. However, at the end of the day it's just football, it can't begin to compare to how these victims and their families feel. Although I'm sure some will, I hope other fans don't use this as an opportunity to pile up on the Penn State fan base, it's not their fault they deserve better.

That said, I can't defend JoePa, McQueary or the top PSU brass. In a situation that screams for a moral and upright person to do the most, they did just enough to protect themselves and the university name, leaving vulnerable the most innocent, those who needed protection the most. Inexcusable, and shameful is all that comes to mind, but that falls short of trying to describe this injustice.

Excellent first post.

SolidGold
11-08-2011, 01:52 PM
I just read the grand jury transcript...just really gross, disgusting and vile. PSU knew about Sandusky doing this as far back as the late 90's. Janitors, a grad assistant and one of the victim's mothers all either witnessed or had him admit to doing inappropriate vile things.

The university seemed to do its best just to brush it under the rug after the grad assistant witnessed sandusky in the act. Paterno knew about it - he has to go right along with the AD and any other figureheads that were around at the time.

Ness
11-08-2011, 02:14 PM
Wtf is up with the sick ahole taping millen laughing at him crying?

What if someone you worked for and respected and mentored you for decades turned out to have such a huge moral failing? I'm sure most of these ex players are in shock at joepas inaction and immoral handling of sandusky's behavior.

Worldviews are being rocked here about something serious. Yet there are sick people laughing about it.

It's YouTube. There are morons everywhere.

MidwayMonster31
11-08-2011, 02:29 PM
Good luck getting through that transcript, you might need a barf bag.
Millen was clearly disgusted by this whole thing, and addressed it.
As for the whole issue of legal vs. moral, because legally Joe Pa is off the hook since he reported it, but the fact was that no one did anything beyond that and allowed it to continue is what makes this whole thing so disgusting.
Joe Pa was supposed to be one of the good guys in college football, and now with this happening, that changes a lot about him as a person.

FlyingElvis
11-08-2011, 02:35 PM
Lots of you have said it pretty well already. There are at least a half dozen grown men who had the opportunity and ability to put an end to this and were too cowardly, self absorbed, callous and weak to do the right thing. They allowed a monster to continue to prey on the innocence and naïveté of children and that is inexcusable. The fact that this guy basically set up a farm system of kids will ensure a special section of hell is reserved for him - one to which the inmates of some prison will soon send him.

Personally, I don't see how anyone in a position of power at PSU can be retained. I'm not talking simply within the atheltics department. This whole thing is so depraved and nobody seemed to care enough about actual lives when the PSU reputation was on the line. Karma can be a *****, as that reputation will now take a far more substantial hit b/c the cover up is always worse than the crime.

I would never imagine I could say that when the crime involves children, but it is true. The cover up served to allow this worthless trash to continue his life as a predator.

SolidGold
11-08-2011, 02:42 PM
The fact that Sandusky had emeritus status for the past decade+ and was on campus up until last week is really the final nail in the coffin.

Paterno was such an iconic figure not just in Happy Valley but in college football and now it is all tarnished because he could not do the right thing and make sure Sandusky was put away in 2002 after the grad assistant reported the incident to him.

Ness
11-08-2011, 02:45 PM
Oh and cancelling the presser was the worst thing you could have done. It's just going to make this thing drag on and on. Paterno didn't even get a chance to talk and defend his reputation before getting the axe.

yodabear
11-08-2011, 02:47 PM
About the only thing that should be left after this should be the players. New president, new AD, new coaches. Who BTW, are 8-1 and undefeated in the Big Ten which sucks because all the talk will be about JoePa and this stuff. While these players are having a great season.

Jughead10
11-08-2011, 02:52 PM
The fact that Sandusky had emeritus status for the past decade+ and was on campus up until last week is really the final nail in the coffin.

Paterno was such an iconic figure not just in Happy Valley but in college football and now it is all tarnished because he could not do the right thing and make sure Sandusky was put away in 2002 after the grad assistant reported the incident to him.

Apparently Sandusky would bring children to practice all the way up to 2007 and no one ever stopped it knowing what they knew.

Grizzlegom
11-08-2011, 03:05 PM
I don't know if I'm still in denial or what but I'd be really angry at the board of trustees if they don't let Joe Paterno finish the season. Maybe I'm just being naive but I still feel that, while he should have done more to follow up on it, Joe did nothing wrong. I think he is guilty of trusting the people above him to do the right thing. From everything I can tell, Joe and Sandusky were not nearly as close as people are making them out to be. They were famous for going at each other in practices and it was Joe that forced him into retirement back in 1998. Joe only spoke for something like 30 seconds at his retirement dinner and I don't ever recall seeing them together paling around since then. People act like Paterno ran the university but since 2000 hit and he's started dealing with health issues and started getting hurt in practices, he's taken less and less of a role within the athletic department, focusing solely on spending time with recruits when they came to State College and coaching/spending time with family. He hasn't been a frequenter of campus since about 2005 honestly. Maybe I'm just not ready to allow my saint-like image of him to be completely brought down but I'm still of the mindset that Joe really didn't know a whole lot more about Sandusky even being around campus and such apart from that one incident. Is it not possible that Spanier and Curley are the ones that gave Sandusky access to the facilities and allowed him to continue to have an office as part of their cover-up? Isn't it also possible that McQ and JoePa didn't see Sandusky at practices because they were busy...you know...coaching? (Contrary to Smooth Criminal's idea that he's just a figurehead, ask any player from the last decade Joe still coaches them...hard.)

Like I said, maybe I'm just naive, but until I hear more from the man I hold so near and dear to my heart, I continue to support him. Roll up your pant legs, this is JoePa's House.

jrdrylie
11-08-2011, 03:11 PM
Oh and cancelling the presser was the worst thing you could have done. It's just going to make this thing drag on and on. Paterno didn't even get a chance to talk and defend his reputation before getting the axe.

When I first heard about it, I thought so too. But with the way Joe Paterno is, he would have made it worst. He more than likely would have been snippy or angry with the reporters. But they should have had something. Spanier should have gone out there and answered questions with or without Paterno.

Smooth Criminal
11-08-2011, 03:11 PM
Apparently Sandusky would bring children to practice all the way up to 2007 and no one ever stopped it knowing what they knew.

It gets worse and worse with everything I hear. No one did anything cause once he was off the staff it wasn't their problem anymore. Just sickening.

FUNBUNCHER
11-08-2011, 03:16 PM
Joe is done at Penn State.
He's 84 and his judgement is being called into question. If anything, this proves the man is too old to be running anything, except his walker.

The fact that the powers that be didn't ban Sandusky in'98/'02 from campus forever is IMO one of the most damning aspects of this case.

If you have TWO allegations in four years about Sandusky sexually assaulting young boys, you don't embrace him into the PSU family.
The least you can do is tell the man to go home and get professional help.
Paterno should have called the police on his own.

It's over for Paterno at PSU, and for young football fans it's a shame this is what many will remember him for.
JoePa - the guy who provided cover for a voracious pedophile within the PSU family.

Prowler
11-08-2011, 03:25 PM
My problem with Joepa stems with knowing about the 1998 incident, then magically that 1999 bowl game a month later was Sandusky's last and he was told that he would not be replacing Paterno? Its so obvious that Paterno knew about the *** **** with little boys and told him that he'd never be head coach and had him step down as defensive coordinator. Its obvious that he knew. If he didn't, then it would have been like the Steelers forcing retirement on Dick Lebeau for being old. Sandusky would have continued coaching. Then he continued about his daily business without ever correcting him or helping any kids.

Jughead10
11-08-2011, 03:29 PM
The guy was a real sick F***. The name of his autobiography is "Touched".

Ness
11-08-2011, 03:29 PM
When I first heard about it, I thought so too. But with the way Joe Paterno is, he would have made it worst. He more than likely would have been snippy or angry with the reporters. But they should have had something. Spanier should have gone out there and answered questions with or without Paterno.

I don't think Joe's composure really matters. Who cares if he gets mad. The milk has spilled after eight years. People have a right to ask the difficult questions. PSU needs to stop worrying about covering their asses at this point and putting up some kind of positive image with this incident, because you can't. The best thing to do would be to talk about this. Or at least make a statement about the most obvious questions. And Joe Paterno deserves a chance to clear his name or whatever.

Raiderz4Life
11-08-2011, 03:30 PM
The stupid scumbag of Sandusky will be getting plenty of what he likes in the showers of the State Penn. Hope he rots in hell.

As for JoePa...idk...deep down I don't think I can really be mad at him. I want to believe he's at least a semi decent human being I guess and until it gets totally proven he's just like the AD and VP, I think I'll side with him.

jrdrylie
11-08-2011, 03:35 PM
I don't think Joe's composure really matters. Who cares if he gets mad. The milk has spilled after eight years. People have a right to ask the difficult questions. PSU needs to stop worrying about covering their asses at this point and putting up some kind of positive image with this incident, because you can't. The best thing to do would be to talk about this. Or at least make a statement about the most obvious questions. And Joe Paterno deserves a chance to clear his name or whatever.

That is why I think they should have sent the president out there to answer the questions. I don't agree with them cancelling the press conference. I only agree to them deciding not to send Paterno out there alone. But people deserve answers now.

Ness
11-08-2011, 03:35 PM
Stopping that incident would have made that GA a national hero. Instead he just walked away and probably ruined his reputation.

JoeJoeBrown
11-08-2011, 03:41 PM
Grizz, you are being naive. Joe knew about this stuff since 1998.

Sandusky admitted to hugging boys in the shower. Why do you think joe pushed him out? Why do you think he didn't have much to say about him at his retirement? It wasn't for on field performance or personality clashes. It was for knowing that Sandusky was a pedo rapist.

I understand the angst. It really blows. But it's way too Pollyanna to say JoePa didn't know.

Ness
11-08-2011, 04:04 PM
I'm also thinking he knew with Sandusky's dismissal. I'm guessing that Paterno didn't know enough or wasn't told enough that when he told the higher ups there wasn't enough evidence or whatever to make something of it. Honestly I would like to know how the information was passed on to him from the GA.

FUNBUNCHER
11-08-2011, 04:07 PM
Look, when someone tells you a male colleague is showering NAKED with young boys and 'hugging' them, what more details do you need??

JoePa at least knew this which was enough to cut ALL ties with Sandusky and call the police.
His behavior should have placed under suspicion Sandusky's relationship with every single boy he paraded around PSU's campus and football practices.

ElectricEye
11-08-2011, 04:13 PM
Apparently, Paterno is scheduling his own press conference or something, independent of Penn State. Supposedly, there's a major divide there right now. Can't possibly bode well for his hopes of finishing the season.

Ness
11-08-2011, 04:13 PM
Look, when someone tells you a male colleague is showering NAKED with young boys and 'hugging' them, what more details do you need??

JoePa at least knew this which was enough to cut ALL ties with Sandusky and call the police.
His behavior should have placed under suspicion Sandusky's relationship with every single boy he paraded around PSU's campus and football practices.

Well that GA went home and then told Paterno right? Unfortunately that GA said something and it was just that. I blame the school administration more so than Paterno for not acting. You don't want to launch an investigation without proof that something happened as it could screw up a person's career. The thing that offsets this is that Sandusky has had allegations before that incident. I'm assuming Paterno knew this, and he didn't act. Which is where I think he did something wrong. If the man was already under the gun before (Sandusky) and Paterno got wind of possibly another incident he should have told the higher ups and made sure it was followed. That is where he failed.

JoeJoeBrown
11-08-2011, 04:14 PM
Look, when someone tells you a male colleague is showering NAKED with young boys and 'hugging' them, what more details do you need??

JoePa at least knew this which was enough to cut ALL ties with Sandusky and call the police.
His behavior should have placed under suspicion Sandusky's relationship with every single boy he paraded around PSU's campus and football practices.

This is why I keep coming back around to thinking that Sandusky blackmailed JoePa and/or others at PSU.

Under normal circumstances, you fire that sicko and kick him the hell out of campus and try to get him thrown into jail.

You don't keep it quiet and keep the guy around your campus parading around kids.

Ness
11-08-2011, 04:14 PM
Apparently, Paterno is scheduling his own press conference or something, independent of Penn State. Supposedly, there's a major divide there right now. Can't possibly bode well for his hopes of finishing the season.

I was wondering if he would do that. Or set up a one on one interview where someone could ask the questions that everyone wants to ask.

WCH
11-08-2011, 04:23 PM
Here's what I'm currently thinking about Paterno

1. He's 85 years old next month, and he's been entrenched in the "good old boys network" for his entire adult life.
2. He knew about Sandusky molesting kids and handled matters via said "good old boys network," which included forcing Sandusky out of PSU. In his mind, he thought this was the proper way to go about things.

He's not a monster and he's not a saint. He handled things dramatically differently than most of us would have, but he's only guilty of being stupid. Reckless stupidity should be grounds for dismissal when it leads to the enabling of one of the worst child predators on record, and nobody should feel bad for Paterno, but I do think I sort of "get" his thought process.

McQueary, on the other hand, deserves to go to jail for at least a few months. That guy really sucks.

Brodeur
11-08-2011, 04:28 PM
McQueary, on the other hand, deserves to go to jail for at least a few months. That guy really sucks.

There's no legal precedent for a bystander not doing anything actually getting jail time so I wouldn't put him in jail, but he's just a worthless coward. That's enough.

WCH
11-08-2011, 04:31 PM
There's no legal precedent for a bystander not doing anything actually getting jail time so I wouldn't put him in jail, but he's just a worthless coward. That's enough.

That's why I said "deserves to go..." instead of "should go..." ;)

I agree.

ElectricEye
11-08-2011, 04:31 PM
Yeah, it's pretty clear that's one the real tragedies in this story. McQueary is an absolute coward in the truest since of the word. According to the report, he was seen by both the child and Sandusky...and he ran away. How anyone could do that is just beyond my understanding. It makes me sick to think what must have been racing through that kids mind after that happened.

Brodeur
11-08-2011, 04:33 PM
And that's not even to bring up the fact that he called his dad first and right away.......give me a ******* break. You're 28 years old, learn what is right and wrong and stop putting your damn career first.

Raiderz4Life
11-08-2011, 04:43 PM
And that's not even to bring up the fact that he called his dad first and right away.......give me a ******* break. You're 28 years old, learn what is right and wrong and stop putting your damn career first.

Unfortunately I think those days are few if not gone completely. Very very few ppl will put morality over their career now a days. The severity of the situation will obviously come into play but I would bet a lot of ppl would throw something under the rug to protect their career/job.

WCH
11-08-2011, 04:43 PM
And that's not even to bring up the fact that he called his dad first and right away.......give me a ******* break. You're 28 years old, learn what is right and wrong and stop putting your damn career first.

It's not even like he had to try to be a hero. He could have gone back to his office and dialed 911 instead of calling his dad. The police would have shown up and very possibly caught Sandusky with the kid, they certainly would have had video surveillance placing the victim and perpetrator in the facilities at the time of the alleged act, they would have had eye-witness testimony, in addition to physical evidence. I'm no lawyer, but that seems like a pretty air-tight case.

He didn't even have to do anything heroic other than call the friggin' cops.

And his father isn't any better. If somebody calls me and tells me that they just witnessed a child being raped, I'm going to tell them to hang up and call 911. This is pretty straightforward.

Ness
11-08-2011, 04:44 PM
I hope people learn from this incident that when they see something like this go down you need to act. I know it's easy for me to say that from this computer, but really it's not like Sandusky had a gun or whatever and was robbing someone. No one's life was at stake or anything like that. Like I said, I don't know why he ran away. I don't know if he feared his job or whatever, which would be dumb because if anything this would make him look like a national hero. Be a man.

FUNBUNCHER
11-08-2011, 04:48 PM
I get that McQueary acted in a cowardly fashion, but catching the 2nd most important individual in the PSU football program raping a child isn't the same as walking in on a RS frosh kicker raping someone.

Imagine wherever you work, the COO of that organization, many decades your senior, and you walked in to his office and saw him raping someone??

You may want to knock the guy out and drag him to the nearest police station, but you may want to tell the CEO first.

When Joe citizen catches a powerful person committing a crime, if you don't think before you act YOU'RE the one who could find themselves in jail.

I would think telling the most important man on campus what he had seen would have been enough.
McQueary probably had no idea JoePa would cover for Sandusky raping a child.

Brodeur
11-08-2011, 04:50 PM
All that reason goes out the window the second a ten year old is involved, come on.

Raiderz4Life
11-08-2011, 04:51 PM
But he didn't go to someone in power. He went to his dad first and then a whole day later he went to Paterno.

Also no, I'm sorry but, idc if you're signing my check or the 2nd dog...I see you doing some sick twisted **** like that you're either 1. gonna get decked square in the face or 2. Imma call the cops on your ass...in my case prolly both cuz I can get really emotional and impulsive.

Giantsfan1080
11-08-2011, 05:05 PM
There's no legal precedent for a bystander not doing anything actually getting jail time so I wouldn't put him in jail, but he's just a worthless coward. That's enough.

Clearly you haven't seen the Seinfeld finale. The Good Samaritan Act covers this.

Giantsfan1080
11-08-2011, 05:08 PM
How could it possibly ruin his career? If anything it would elevate it because he did the right thing and he stepped up to someone who had more power and could have took him down for the heinous acts he was committing. If he really though JoePa would have buried him if he went to the police then he has more than enough ammo to take everyone down.

FUNBUNCHER
11-08-2011, 05:09 PM
McQueary was scared. Not right or wrong, just disappointing.
At least he told someone and I can't blame him for going to his father first.

If Paterno had seen this, you think HE would have told a soul???
Sandusky is JoePa's BFF, or was.

JoeJoeBrown
11-08-2011, 05:10 PM
He's a coward. Anyone that would walk away from that situation is a coward.

Giantsfan1080
11-08-2011, 05:14 PM
McQueary was scared. Not right or wrong, just disappointing.
At least he told someone and I can't blame him for going to his father first.

If Paterno had seen this, you think HE would have told a soul???
Sandusky is JoePa's BFF, or was.

Scared of what though? It's not like JoePa would have had him killed or something. I understand it's hard to understand what the thinking was but I just don't see a reason to defend his actions.

descendency
11-08-2011, 05:18 PM
Scared of what though? It's not like JoePa would have had him killed or something. I understand it's hard to understand what the thinking was but I just don't see a reason to defend his actions.

Making a private matter public. That's career suicide. If Penn State fired him, no one else would have hired him, like it or not.

JoeJoeBrown
11-08-2011, 05:19 PM
Making a private matter public. That's career suicide. If Penn State fired him, no one else would have hired him, like it or not.

Your logic is way wrong here.

descendency
11-08-2011, 05:19 PM
Apparently, Paterno is scheduling his own press conference or something, independent of Penn State. Supposedly, there's a major divide there right now. Can't possibly bode well for his hopes of finishing the season.

If he does that, he may be fired with cause.

Brodeur
11-08-2011, 05:21 PM
Making a private matter public. That's career suicide. If Penn State fired him, no one else would have hired him, like it or not.

No one is going to hire him now, and he's going to be a hell of a lot worse off for not doing the right thing in the first place. I am getting annoyed at all of this "this is what you are supposed to do" or "he was scared" crap, this is ******* rape of a ten year old we're talking about. This is so much worse than any other scandal that the NCAA has been through.

Giantsfan1080
11-08-2011, 05:23 PM
Making a private matter public. That's career suicide. If Penn State fired him, no one else would have hired him, like it or not.

No way. Career suicide because he turned in a child rapist? Just no.

JoeJoeBrown
11-08-2011, 05:25 PM
Apparently a large crowd of students are outside of JoePa's house cheering in support of him.

Cognitive dissonance is a powerful thing.

Giantsfan1080
11-08-2011, 05:25 PM
No one is going to hire him now, and he's going to be a hell of a lot worse off for not doing the right thing in the first place. I am getting annoyed at all of this "this is what you are supposed to do" or "he was scared" crap, this is ******* rape of a ten year old we're talking about. This is so much worse than any other scandal that the NCAA has been through.

It absolutely is. It makes the recruiting scandals trivial. The NCAA won't have a leg to stand on though I don't think to penalize PSU.

Giantsfan1080
11-08-2011, 05:27 PM
Is Mcqueary finally the one to prove as fact that gingers don't have souls?

descendency
11-08-2011, 05:28 PM
It absolutely is. It makes the recruiting scandals trivial. The NCAA won't have a leg to stand on though I don't think to penalize PSU.

I would be totally shocked if the NCAA doesn't have grounds to punish PSU. Almost every agreement known to man has a "moral clause" in it. It is specifically to punish stuff like this.

I don't know specifically if the NCAA has that moral clause, but I would bet on it.

FuzzyGopher
11-08-2011, 05:28 PM
Damn, 9 kids? Sandusky is doing Tiger Woods numbers. What a sick ****.

WCH
11-08-2011, 05:29 PM
No one is going to hire him now, and he's going to be a hell of a lot worse off for not doing the right thing in the first place. I am getting annoyed at all of this "this is what you are supposed to do" or "he was scared" crap, this is ******* rape of a ten year old we're talking about. This is so much worse than any other scandal that the NCAA has been through.

This.

His career is basically over. No school is going to touch somebody who walked out of a room where the rape of a 10 year old child was taking place, without even calling the cops. He's going to be remembered for being tacitly involved in the biggest scandal in the history of NCAA football.

Students would go berserk, and boosters would go berserk.

FUNBUNCHER
11-08-2011, 05:32 PM
SO who was the bad guy in the 1998 incident??
Paterno could have ended this a long time ago.

It makes no sense to hold McQueary more accountable than the AD/VP/University president or JoePa.

ElectricEye
11-08-2011, 05:36 PM
Yeah, McQueary is done in college football now. A lot of good putting his career ahead of doing the right thing did him. That's maybe the one good thing to come out of this; none of the guys who kept this quiet have any kind of professional future. Cowardice and indifference when you witness a child being ******* raped is absolutely unjustifiable. I would rather lose any kind of career I had than do what he did. How he lived with the fact Sandusky was still a presence around campus, let alone was still a presence with children...man. Give me a five dollar an hour job working a fryer over that.

Brodeur
11-08-2011, 05:36 PM
SO who was the bad guy in the 1998 incident??
Paterno could have ended this a long time ago.

It makes no sense to hold McQueary more accountable than the AD/VP/University president or JoePa.

I don't hold McQueary more accountable than the lot, I think the AD/VP are absolutely horrific human beings and so is the Second Mile coordinator that continued to let it happen. I just called him a coward, which is what he is.

JoeJoeBrown
11-08-2011, 05:37 PM
SO who was the bad guy in the 1998 incident??
Paterno could have ended this a long time ago.

It makes no sense to hold McQueary more accountable than the AD/VP/University president or JoePa.

Totally agree.

WCH
11-08-2011, 05:37 PM
SO who was the bad guy in the 1998 incident??
Paterno could have ended this a long time ago.

It makes no sense to hold McQueary more accountable than the AD/VP/University president or JoePa.

I don't think that anybody is holding him more accountable than JoePa et al. Two of those people are facing criminal charges. McQueary's story in this situation is just a bit more disturbing, because he's the only person within the football program, that we know of, who was an eye-witness to the abuse.

JoeJoeBrown
11-08-2011, 06:41 PM
The number of identified victims is now close to 20. (http://www.myfoxphilly.com/dpp/sports/local_sports/exclusive:-victims-double-in-penn-state-case-110811?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter)

Kill yourself, Sandusky. Please. Just do it. None of these men and boys should be forced to testify.

I want pain for him, but screw it, he should just go away ASAP.

SolidGold
11-08-2011, 06:48 PM
The number of identified victims is now close to 20. (http://www.myfoxphilly.com/dpp/sports/local_sports/exclusive:-victims-double-in-penn-state-case-110811?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter)

Kill yourself, Sandusky. Please. Just do it. None of these men and boys should be forced to testify.

I want pain for him, but screw it, he should just go away ASAP.

I just saw that too. Yea, I wouldn't be surprised if this vile POS just kills himself.

Brodeur
11-08-2011, 07:07 PM
That would be the easy way out........I don't like the easy way out. I want him punished.

JoeJoeBrown
11-08-2011, 07:13 PM
That would be the easy way out........I don't like the easy way out. I want him punished.

I want him to suffer, but they need people to testify against him. Reliving that crap in the public eye, closed court or not, is something that I think would best be avoided.

Then, again, maybe it would great for some of those men to feel that they've done their part in making the bastard pay.

I just convinced myself that I'd rather have him suffer a billion jailhouse beatings and sexual violations.

EvilNixon
11-08-2011, 07:19 PM
http://www.huliq.com/files/imagecache/article_main/news_article/images/41ZXRXMOp7L._BO2%2C204%2C203%2C200_PIsitb-sticker-arrow-click%2CTopRight%2C35%2C-76_AA300_SH20_OU01_.jpg


Pure Class

FlyingElvis
11-08-2011, 07:28 PM
Yeah, McQueary is done in college football now. A lot of good putting his career ahead of doing the right thing did him. That's maybe the one good thing to come out of this; none of the guys who kept this quiet have any kind of professional future. Cowardice and indifference when you witness a child being ******* raped is absolutely unjustifiable. I would rather lose any kind of career I had than do what he did. How he lived with the fact Sandusky was still a presence around campus, let alone was still a presence with children...man. Give me a five dollar an hour job working a fryer over that.

Exactly how I feel about it. How any of these people can look in a mirror is beyond me. This isn't looking the other way when a booster kicks a fistful of bills to a player.

FuzzyGopher
11-08-2011, 07:29 PM
We Are

http://i.imgur.com/ESPZR.jpg

JoeJoeBrown
11-08-2011, 07:32 PM
We Are

http://i.imgur.com/ESPZR.jpg

Dude, not cool.

Brothgar
11-08-2011, 07:38 PM
Call me crazy but I think this is one big witch hunt. Joe Pa did what he was suppose to do contact his superiors and get an investigation either within or outside of the organization started. No investigation was started but we have no idea of what he was told afterwards. The University is trying to save its name on the legacy of a great coach. They are making Joe Pa the sacrificial lamb due to how old he is.

JoeJoeBrown
11-08-2011, 07:45 PM
Call me crazy but I think this is one big witch hunt. Joe Pa did what he was suppose to do contact his superiors and get an investigation either within or outside of the organization started. No investigation was started but we have no idea of what he was told afterwards. The University is trying to save its name on the legacy of a great coach. They are making Joe Pa the sacrificial lamb due to how old he is.

You are crazy.

Read the report. Curley, Schultz, and JoePa all knew what Sandusky was. For a long time, since at least 1998.

Giantsfan1080
11-08-2011, 07:47 PM
Call me crazy but I think this is one big witch hunt. Joe Pa did what he was suppose to do contact his superiors and get an investigation either within or outside of the organization started. No investigation was started but we have no idea of what he was told afterwards. The University is trying to save its name on the legacy of a great coach. They are making Joe Pa the sacrificial lamb due to how old he is.

Ok I'll do it first you're crazy. Joe Pa let this guy around his closed practices with little children fully knowing what this monster did in the past. Are you seriously going to tell me if it were you and you knew the history of this guy that you'd let him do that? It's just sick to even think about it. Joe Pa only cared about his reputation and tried to hide the problem within his own world. Everyone at the university who was involved is culpable including the two men who already been arrested and the soon to be fired Joe Pa and President.

yo123
11-08-2011, 07:50 PM
Why do people keep trying to make this an argument? This is as cut and dry as life gets. Everyone involved is a giant ******* scumbag.

Brodeur
11-08-2011, 07:56 PM
Call me crazy but I think this is one big witch hunt. Joe Pa did what he was suppose to do contact his superiors and get an investigation either within or outside of the organization started. No investigation was started but we have no idea of what he was told afterwards. The University is trying to save its name on the legacy of a great coach. They are making Joe Pa the sacrificial lamb due to how old he is.

Uuuuuuuuuuuuuuuugh. HE LET HIM IN THE BUILDING YEARS AND YEARS AFTER HE KNEW WHAT HE WAS, HE COULD HAVE GONE OUT OF HIS WAY TO STOP HIM FROM ENTERING THE BUILDING EVER AGAIN.

yodabear
11-08-2011, 08:07 PM
Call me crazy but I think this is one big witch hunt. Joe Pa did what he was suppose to do contact his superiors and get an investigation either within or outside of the organization started. No investigation was started but we have no idea of what he was told afterwards. The University is trying to save its name on the legacy of a great coach. They are making Joe Pa the sacrificial lamb due to how old he is.

I'm not sure it can be a witch hunt. Everyone from the President on down to the football coaches. Anyone that has been there since 1999, should go. So it can't be just a witch hunt on JoePa.

Brothgar
11-08-2011, 08:22 PM
I'm not sure it can be a witch hunt. Everyone from the President on down to the football coaches. Anyone that has been there since 1999, should go. So it can't be just a witch hunt on JoePa.

Granted but all of the press seems to go to Joe Pa I hear Joe Pa's name more than the guy who did the deed, the witness, and the superiors. Even the thread title puts it more on Joe Pa.

Rabscuttle
11-08-2011, 08:26 PM
I don't see how it's a witch hunt, when it appears he did the absolute minimum to seek justice for those kids and prevent the rest from happening. He had the power to push for action on this when the others involved decided to do nothing. When a person wielded the power he did at that institution and he chose to sit on his hands while the victims accumulated, an extra noose can be found to fit around his neck.

He isn't going down alone in this either so he definitely isn't the scapegoat. Accomplices would be a more fitting term for those finding themselves in the spotlight at Penn State.

Prowler
11-08-2011, 08:32 PM
CNN has an article up about how students are gathering at Paterno's house in support of him. It would be nice if they'd read the report before gathering.

http://www.cnn.com/2011/11/08/justice/pennsylvania-coach-abuse-charges/index.html?hpt=hp_c1

Philliez01
11-08-2011, 08:33 PM
Granted but all of the press seems to go to Joe Pa I hear Joe Pa's name more than the guy who did the deed, the witness, and the superiors. Even the thread title puts it more on Joe Pa.

It's his program essentially. He's the figurehead/mascot of Penn State so odds are you'll hear more about him. McQueary goes by the title "a grad assistant" in the media as well. All the speculation is on Paterno just simply because of his stature.

It's not all of his fault by any means. However, he did nothing to stop it and did more to let it happen. If your idea of punishment to a child rapist is "he won't be my successor", then I can't accept you being a "class-first" guy.

yodabear
11-08-2011, 08:41 PM
The story comes down to this. U guys maybe my bestest friends in the world or u maybe my boss and I like u or something (which I would never like a boss but thats not the point.) If I see my boss or if I hear rumors of my best friend, no matter how close, butt ******* a ten year old in the shower, the person I am going to is not my dad or the AD. Its the police man, that should just kinda be common sense.

Giantsfan1080
11-08-2011, 08:51 PM
Is it true that the 2nd Mile charity also knew of this for 3 years but still kept Sandusky around?

Rabscuttle
11-08-2011, 09:02 PM
CNN has an article up about how students are gathering at Paterno's house in support of him. It would be nice if they'd read the report before gathering.

http://www.cnn.com/2011/11/08/justice/pennsylvania-coach-abuse-charges/index.html?hpt=hp_c1

No surprise. You see thousands support the catholic church when they protect their pedo priests as well. The weak always support the institution/leader over what is right. It's what they identify with and it scares them to have to question what they believe in in any way. Symbols are overly important to a certain type of person and that is what Paterno is to these individuals.

Saints-Tigers
11-08-2011, 09:11 PM
Really... we should have known the number would be much higher than 8. He's apparently very bold about doing what he did, and was around a ton of kids for a long time.

Sickening.... I guess Sandusky is way too dirty for me to be mad at Joe Pa at the moment. I know if someone told me that about one of my friends I was close to, I probably wouldn't believe it at all.

Complex
11-08-2011, 09:28 PM
IDK if this has been posted but this guy was a sicko

Victim 6
"Jerry Sandusky admitted to my face, he admitted it," the mother said. "He admitted that he lathered up my son they were naked and he bear-hugged him. If they would have done something about it in 1998, and then again in 2002—there was two chances they dropped the ball and I think they should all be held accountable."


Victim 1

A few weeks before her son broke down and confessed to a principal at Central Mountain High School in Clinton County that he was being molested by Jerry Sandusky—a volunteer football coach at his high school—his mother began to suspect something was wrong.

First, it was because her son was acting out. When she grounded him, she said Sandusky demanded he be able to "take care of it."

"I said, ‘No way, he's my kid,'" she said.

Then, her son began asking her about an online database for "sex weirdos."

"You don't want to just accuse people of that," the mother said. "I called the school principal and the guidance counselor and said, if nothing else, he's taking my son out of classes. He's leaving the school with him. ... So I asked them to call him into the office and ask [my son] how he felt.

"They did call him to the office that day and I remember [the principal] was in tears and she said, ‘You need to come here right away.'"

Her son, then 15, broke down and told them what happened.

link (http://deadspin.com/5857440/alleged-victims-mother-jerry-sandusky-admitted-it-to-my-face-13-years-ago)

Sandusky admitted to victim one mother 13 years ago that he did these disgusting things and no one at Penn State did anything wow. JoePa and the rest of the people need to be fired.

JoeJoeBrown
11-08-2011, 09:49 PM
The BOT is not planning on doing anything with Spanier. And at least one member supports Curley and Schultz.

These people are ******* idiots if that is the case. Likely going with the McQueary is full of **** defense. Which is idiotic, but everything that PSU has done the past few days has been idiotic.

link (http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/11312/1188316-143.stm?cmpid=education.xml)
Spanier's job status not on table for trustees
Tuesday, November 08, 2011
By Moriah Balingit, Pittsburgh Post-Gazette
The board of trustees at Penn State University does not plan to fire university president Graham Spanier, who finds himself and his university embroiled in a child sex assault case involving a former coach and also dealing with allegations that two administrators tried to cover it up.

In a phone interview Monday, Steve Garban, chairman of the board of trustees, said terminating Mr. Spanier is not on the table.

"No, it's not being discussed at this point," he said.

The board met in an emergency executive session for about two hours on Sunday evening to discuss the matter. The vast majority of board members attended, he said.

The meeting was held after Jerry Sandusky, the football team's former defensive coordinator, was charged with sexually abusing eight boys over a 15-year period.

THE SANDUSKY CASE
» The Post-Gazette's coverage
Tim Curley, director of athletics, and Gary Schultz, senior vice president for finance and business, were charged on Saturday with perjury and failing to report the alleged assault on campus of one boy after being told about it by head football coach Joe Paterno. Mr. Paterno was told about it by a graduate assistant in 2002. That assault is said to have occurred in a football locker room shower.

Mr. Garban said the board plans to convene a task force with its own independent legal counsel to investigate the matter.

He said details of the task force and the scope of its investigation have yet to be worked out, but it will also look at the university's "policies and procedures ... related to the protection of children."

Mr. Garban, a former vice president at the university whose 33-year tenure as an administrator ended in 1993, said he has worked with both Mr. Curley and Mr. Schultz. He said he found the allegations against them "hard to believe, quite frankly."

"I have known them as people of high integrity," he said.

Both administrators have insisted they're innocent of the charges.

"I believe them," Mr. Garban said.

EvilNixon
11-08-2011, 09:56 PM
We Are

http://i.imgur.com/ESPZR.jpg

Photoshoppers waste no time.

Brodeur
11-08-2011, 10:00 PM
There is no way they can keep these guys in power, and not deal with intense beyond belief public scrutiny (well deserved at that).

JoeJoeBrown
11-08-2011, 10:07 PM
There is no way they can keep these guys in power, and not deal with intense beyond belief public scrutiny (well deserved at that).

The only cOnclusion is that they are morons. From the BOT on down. The arrogant stupidity is stunning.

FUNBUNCHER
11-08-2011, 10:13 PM
If the PSU Board of Trustees aren't careful, they are going to give their football program the death penalty all on their own.

What turned Alabama around in less than 5 years into a national powerhouse?? Dominant recruiting.
Why have Miami/ND fallen on hard times?? Lack of elite prep talent from recruiting.

This scandal is so utterly disgusting, I don't see how ANY HS athlete would want to be associated with the Nitanny Lions. If the university doesn't clean house of everyone who is associated with this scandal, I think PSU falls into a black hole that will take a decade(s) to crawl out of.

JoePa is looking like a mafia don protecting one of his top underbosses.
PSU can't nibble around the edges on this, they have to right the ship before it's too late.

People act as if great programs can't fall apart.

Who remembers USC in the mid 1980s and 1990s?? Awful times.
THe U. used to own the state of Florida and could poach the #1 recruit from nearly any state in the country to play for the 'Canes. Florida State used to be a top 5 program every year and averaged 45 points a game.
Oklahoma was a pathetic program in the 1990s. Texas wasn't much better.

When the best players in the state of Pennsylvania no longer want to play for Penn State's disgrace of a program and choose Pittsburgh instead, the damage is done.
And if Pitt ever gets to a BCS game or championship with recruits who normally would have gone to PSU, there could be a permanent shift in the balance of power in the state.

People seem to forget how quickly things can change in college football with the loss of reputation in the minds of recruits.

Rabscuttle
11-08-2011, 10:13 PM
Well, Garban's little release sheds a wee bit more light on how Sandusky could operate so freely.

How does a school get rid of their BoT? A PSU diploma on the wall is going to get a lot of negative reaction if these assholes stay the course.

Brodeur
11-08-2011, 10:23 PM
Penn State is going to lose A LOT of money period by keeping them in tact, forget about just recruits. In addition to that, Second Mile is going to be absolutely done for too since they allowed Sandusky to remain there for 9 years after the thing in 1998 (and 5 years after learning about the 2002 incident).

JoeJoeBrown
11-08-2011, 10:31 PM
Psu is going to have the pants sued off of them. I hope that they have a great insurance policy because they are going to need it.

Funbuncher nailed it wrt their football program. If they don't clean house immediately they are in a black hole. If they do clean house the damage may only be for a few years until after the legal cases are over.

JoeJoeBrown
11-08-2011, 10:38 PM
The student rally for JoePa has now devolved to tear gas and riot police. So misguided and surreal.

http://desmond.yfrog.com/Himg740/scaled.php?tn=0&server=740&filename=l0qbt.jpg&xsize=640&ysize=640
http://p.twimg.com/Adx_2D4CMAADAsX.jpg

MaxV
11-08-2011, 10:39 PM
When the best players in the state of Pennsylvania no longer want to play for Penn State's disgrace of a program and choose Pittsburgh instead, the damage is done.

That was already happening before this scandal. Penn State has stopped being an elite program awhile back.

I think the Board is planning to clean house completely (or should I say I hope), it's just it can't do it all at once.