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mcdlaxbonz13
11-07-2011, 09:50 PM
Figured it's never to soon to start talking about the draft and what direction we should be looking to draft.

I personally think the first two rounds should be solely dedicated to the offense. If we could some how end up with Justin Blackmon with our pick that would be great. After that I personally wouldn't mind us drafting O-Linemen to complete our line. I also think we will be looking at taking a RB at some point since Peyton is most likely not returning.

What do you guys hope/think/want to happen in the upcoming draft?

Iamcanadian
11-07-2011, 11:41 PM
Qb, Qb, Qb

keylime_5
11-08-2011, 05:19 PM
if we don't get a QB (we'd probably have to trade up to get one) we desperately need to address the right side of the offensive line and the wide receiver position.

With those 3 areas in mind, here are some first round possiblities:

Andrew Luck (would have to trade the farm to get him)
Matt Barkley
Landry Jones
Robert Griffin III
Justin Blackmon
Michael Floyd
Alshon Jeffery
Mohamed Sanu
Matt Kalil
Riley Reiff
Jonathan Martin
Mike Adams
David DeCastro
Cordy Glenn

at least one of those guys - get em, tom.


I'm not sold on the idea of Ryan Tannehill being anything more than a 2nd round project at this point, and we don't need those, we need 1st rounders with big upside that are less of a risk.

Brown Leader
11-09-2011, 05:05 PM
I like Tannehill more than Griffin or Jones. Strikes me as a slightly more talented Joe Flacco.

keylime_5
11-13-2011, 10:38 PM
ugh, top 5 pick here we come.

if we lose the rest of our games and get the #2 pick behind only Indianapolis i'm gonna do something very bad to indianapolis and peyton manning. we suffer for years without a franchise QB and Indy has one of the best ever and getting to replace him seamlessly with the top QB prospect in over a decade is bs.

Iamcanadian
11-14-2011, 12:22 PM
I'll take a shot with Barkley, he is clearly at this point in the process, the #2 guy and a top 5 prospect. However, we may well be drafting 8-12 range and may have to accept the #3 QB prospect if he is good enough and I'm not sure who that is right now.

Iamcanadian
11-14-2011, 12:30 PM
Andrew Luck - no chance
Matt Barkley - I pray we get a shot
Landry Jones - may have to accept the #3 guy
Robert Griffin III - ditto
Justin Blackmon - possible if no QB is available
Michael Floyd - love him but huge character issues
Alshon Jeffery - not a sure 1st rounder, fat and slow
Mohamed Sanu - not sure he is a 1st rounder
Matt Kalil - LT type, not what we need.
Riley Reiff - borderline 1st rounder?????
Jonathan Martin -Stanford OL exposed by Oregon????
Mike Adams - more of a LT type
David DeCastro -See Martin
Cordy Glenn - overweight fat guy who will struggle to stay in shape at the next level.

keylime_5
11-14-2011, 03:37 PM
With our first pick I want a QB or WR. It is nice to build a great defense (especially in this division) but we've ignored the offense long enough. Blackmon, Floyd, Barkley, Griffin, or Jones and I'll be happy even though I'm not sold on a couple of those guys.

Iamcanadian
11-15-2011, 07:48 AM
I won't be shocked if they pass on a QB and look for more line help. McCoy is a Holmgren type of QB and he may well give him 1 more year to prove himself.
He may also look again at round 2 for that WR. I won't be surprised to see him go OL, DL or LB in the draft, OL to help McCoy, DL or LBer to help the defense get more dominating.
I don't agree with it but I see this as a very strong possibility.

keylime_5
11-15-2011, 04:32 PM
If we decided to add some top talent to our O-Line early in the draft I would not be against it - especially in a year where we will have 2 first round picks and a high second round pick. Addressing the offensive and defensive lines with premium picks is a strategy that rarely fails, esp. in our division where physical line play and running/stopping the run is the name of the game. That said I am still hoping for this draft to drastically change our passing offense for the better.

Al Capwn
11-18-2011, 11:07 AM
Blackmon and Decastro would be my dream first round. Then hopefully Burfect falls to the second round and we can get a steal there.

DeepThreat
11-21-2011, 09:58 PM
What do you guys think about my work in the forum mock.

Moves:

6. Landry Jones, QB, Oklahoma
Traded 16 and 38 for 9 and 71
9. Trent Richardson, RB, Alabama
71. Juron Criner, WR, Arizona
75. Donnie Fletcher, CB, Boston College
106. Jarius Wright, WR, Arkansas
114. Miles Burris, OLB, San Diego State

Brown Leader
11-22-2011, 10:33 PM
^A potential franchise QB and Richardson is cake.



First round graded QBs current player comparisons imo..

Luck - Eli Manning with better mobility.

Barkley - Smaller armed Stafford.

Landry Jones - Matt Hasselback.

Griffin - Mike Vick.

Tannehill - Joe Flacco.

Tyler Wilson - Matt Ryan.

Which would you want?

Al Capwn
11-29-2011, 02:10 PM
Luck and Barkley

Al Capwn
11-29-2011, 02:11 PM
What do you guys think about my work in the forum mock.

Moves:

6. Landry Jones, QB, Oklahoma
Traded 16 and 38 for 9 and 71
9. Trent Richardson, RB, Alabama
71. Juron Criner, WR, Arizona
75. Donnie Fletcher, CB, Boston College
106. Jarius Wright, WR, Arkansas
114. Miles Burris, OLB, San Diego State

I would be happy with that, but I think making mock trades is a waste of time honestly. You just end up throwing too many variables into the thought process.

Al Capwn
11-29-2011, 02:29 PM
I was thinking about it some more and I'm not sure I like the later rounds at all. I'm not sure where we're improving the team. Another 6th round WR, no OL help (I think we need 3 positions filled. Pashos sucks, Lauvao I would like to see replaced, Pinkston has played better than expected I could see him moving to RT). We need LBer help, desperately need DLine help (a starter and depth). I think Richardson will be a stud but I'm just never a fan of drafting one with a 1st round pick. I still say I wouldn't have pulled the trigger on AP even if he didn't have injury concerns.

Perhaps I guess this depends on your opinion of Landry Jones. Granted I tend to always be harsh on QBs and I don't think Colt is the guy, but of the games I've seen Landry play which is a fair amount I'm just never impressed. So I guess I'm asking what do you see that you like?

After watching AJ Green kill the browns last sunday, convinced me that stud playmakers can make a QB look great, and no playmakers can make one look terrible (unless his name is Tom Brady). I'm not sure a 3rd round WR and a 6th round WR will be an upgrade. You think those WRs are the upgrade we need?

Brown Leader
11-29-2011, 03:42 PM
I was thinking about it some more and I'm not sure I like the later rounds at all. I'm not sure where we're improving the team. Another 6th round WR, no OL help (I think we need 3 positions filled. Pashos sucks, Lauvao I would like to see replaced, Pinkston has played better than expected I could see him moving to RT). We need LBer help, desperately need DLine help (a starter and depth). I think Richardson will be a stud but I'm just never a fan of drafting one with a 1st round pick. I still say I wouldn't have pulled the trigger on AP even if he didn't have injury concerns.

Perhaps I guess this depends on your opinion of Landry Jones. Granted I tend to always be harsh on QBs and I don't think Colt is the guy, but of the games I've seen Landry play which is a fair amount I'm just never impressed. So I guess I'm asking what do you see that you like?

After watching AJ Green kill the browns last sunday, convinced me that stud playmakers can make a QB look great, and no playmakers can make one look terrible (unless his name is Tom Brady). I'm not sure a 3rd round WR and a 6th round WR will be an upgrade. You think those WRs are the upgrade we need?

It goes both ways. Dalton is having a phenomenal year. His accuracy, timing and arm strength are making those spectacular catches possible. At the same time, Green can seemingly catch everything-Simpson would be a #1 WR on a lot of teams and Gresham is a #1 type rec option.

I agree with most of your first part but I'm sorry, In hindsight I would take AP over Joe Thomas.

fear the elf
12-02-2011, 02:57 PM
What do you guys think about my work in the forum mock.

Moves:

6. Landry Jones, QB, Oklahoma
Traded 16 and 38 for 9 and 71
9. Trent Richardson, RB, Alabama
71. Juron Criner, WR, Arizona
75. Donnie Fletcher, CB, Boston College
106. Jarius Wright, WR, Arkansas
114. Miles Burris, OLB, San Diego State

Full disclosure, I don't usually start familiarizing myself with the prospects (except the first rounders) until the draft process begins. That being said, I will just focus on the top of the draft...

I'm not a fan of the Landry Jones pick. We basically have the same guy already, except Colt is more athletic. Both guys are from a spread attack (read: masks deficiencies) and have questionable arm strength (more disclosure: I think Colt deserves another year with a couple young weapons).

Also, I'd rather not trade a second rounder to move up a few spots. This roster is bereft of talent, I think having a 2nd rd over a 3rd rd pick has more impact than the 9th vs. 16th pick.

Ideally I'd like to see some form of OL and WR/RB with the first two picks. Something like DeCastro and Floyd (not sure about his off-field stuff though) or Richardson and Reiff.

That's my $0.02

DeepThreat
12-04-2011, 05:46 PM
Full disclosure, I don't usually start familiarizing myself with the prospects (except the first rounders) until the draft process begins. That being said, I will just focus on the top of the draft...

I'm not a fan of the Landry Jones pick. We basically have the same guy already, except Colt is more athletic. Both guys are from a spread attack (read: masks deficiencies) and have questionable arm strength (more disclosure: I think Colt deserves another year with a couple young weapons).

Also, I'd rather not trade a second rounder to move up a few spots. This roster is bereft of talent, I think having a 2nd rd over a 3rd rd pick has more impact than the 9th vs. 16th pick.

For the record, I wouldn't make the Landry pick again. Since I made that selection, Landry hasn't played nearly as well.

Ideally I'd like to see some form of OL and WR/RB with the first two picks. Something like DeCastro and Floyd (not sure about his off-field stuff though) or Richardson and Reiff.

That's my $0.02

Landry is not similar to Colt at all. Landry is 3 inches taller, has a rocket arm and weighs at least 10 pounds more. And the Oklahoma spread is more like the Patriots' scheme than Texas's.

fear the elf
12-04-2011, 08:35 PM
Landry is not similar to Colt at all. Landry is 3 inches taller, has a rocket arm and weighs at least 10 pounds more. And the Oklahoma spread is more like the Patriots' scheme than Texas's.

I've never heard anyone else say Landry Jones has a "rocket arm". A lot of people consider him a JAG with a good supporting cast. From what I understand they both have average arm strength and good accuracy (Colt's being better). Landry is bigger but less athletic.

In regards to scheme, even if that's true, the Patriot's scheme isn't incredibly vertical; I don't think it changes my point.

Iamcanadian
12-05-2011, 02:05 AM
I think it is still possible that either Barkley or RG111 will be available at 6-9 and a trade up may prove unnecessary. The Combine will decide which of RG111 or Barkley is the better prospect. I think RG111 is definitely on the rise which could cause Barkley to be within range of where we draft, so a trade might definitely have to be done or he might fall to us anyways.
I think Jones is on the decline and will need a solid combine to stay anywhere near the top 15-20 picks.
I would hope that we gamble on a RB later in round 2/3 than take Richardson and look for a WR with our next 1st rounder so our new QB has a #1 target to work with. Usually if you have a solid LT and draft a QB, you stick to the offensive side of the ball and finish rebuilding that side before looking to improve the defense.
Our defense will improve anyways with added experience but our offense needs a transfusion desperately if we want to compete.

If we don't have to give up picks to get Barkley, then our draft could look something like this:
1) Barkley - I definitely can see him somewhere close to where we draft if RG111 passes him in the rankings.
1) Floyd - probably the #1 WR in the draft but will fall some because of past injuries and some character issues.
2) RB - there will be somebody decent I'm sure.
3) RT or an OG
4) Best DE available if a good prospect is available or DB
5) Best DB available or a pass receiving TE

j05son
12-05-2011, 12:16 PM
put me down for...

1a- BPA
1b- BPA
2 - BPA
3 - BPA
4a- BPA
4b- BPA
etc...

Al Capwn
12-05-2011, 02:27 PM
I'm starting to think Barkley/Richardson then go DeCastro (and pray he's there). then in the 2nd round try to land a WR like Brian Quick, a guy I'm starting to like more and more. Burfect were to fall to the second I'd be happy with that as well.

keylime_5
12-05-2011, 08:53 PM
I have a sneaking suspicion that Barkley returns for his senior year. That won't be a problem if we can get Robert Griffin III instead. Kid has the potential to be the new face of our city from a sports standpoint.

RD1-QB (Barkley or RGIII)
RD1-OL, DE, CB, or WR
RD2-OL, DE, CB, or WR
RD3-OL, CB, LB, S, or RB

Al Capwn
12-06-2011, 07:27 AM
Depends on your opinion of RGIII. I'm not a fan, too short/small for the AFC North. Not a believer in him staying healthy either.

keylime_5
12-06-2011, 11:48 AM
Depends on your opinion of RGIII. I'm not a fan, too short/small for the AFC North. Not a believer in him staying healthy either.

same size as Andy Dalton. 6'2"/220. He's bigger than Vick.

Al Capwn
12-06-2011, 01:56 PM
Thats what he's listed at by Baylor. Most pundits say they'd be surprised if he measured 6' at the combine.

keylime_5
12-06-2011, 02:07 PM
Watching him play it's obvious that he's over 6'. He might measure in at around 6'1" though which would hurt his stock a bit. He was listed at 6'3" every year until this year though and he looks taller than Troy Smith or Colt McCoy on the field. 6'2" is widely regarded as the threshold for QBs.

Al Capwn
12-06-2011, 02:40 PM
Well we shall see. If the browns draft him I wish nothing but the best for him, but I dont see it.

keylime_5
12-06-2011, 07:35 PM
if he is really 6'2" and if Barkley stays in school, they better take him if he's available. He's really gaining steam as a prospect right now amongst scout b/c of the season he has had. He's still a first round pick even if he is a tad under the 6'2" threshold, though I agree the chances of the Browns taking him that high if he is too short are a lot slimmer. I have no doubt that this offseason will be about finding a QB and some playmakers.

DeepThreat
12-06-2011, 09:25 PM
I've never heard anyone else say Landry Jones has a "rocket arm". A lot of people consider him a JAG with a good supporting cast. From what I understand they both have average arm strength and good accuracy (Colt's being better). Landry is bigger but less athletic.

Other than the JAG comment, you couldn't be more wrong. Landry's strength is his arm and his weakness is his accuracy.

Brown Leader
12-07-2011, 12:07 AM
It'll be kind of funny if RGIII is taller than Barkley.

keylime_5
12-07-2011, 12:42 AM
Most people are expecting Barkley to measure in at 6'1" or so, maybe a little more. I really do not think he is 6'2". I really think Griffin is taller than Barkley, though there is a chance that he is a tall 6'1" as well instead of a short 6'2". Amazing how much hub-bub is made over fractions of an inch in height for NFL QBs.

Al Capwn
12-07-2011, 02:43 PM
That can be the difference in a game.

Iamcanadian
12-09-2011, 09:27 AM
I have a sneaking suspicion that Barkley returns for his senior year. That won't be a problem if we can get Robert Griffin III instead. Kid has the potential to be the new face of our city from a sports standpoint.

RD1-QB (Barkley or RGIII)
RD1-OL, DE, CB, or WR
RD2-OL, DE, CB, or WR
RD3-OL, CB, LB, S, or RB

I think if Barkley returns to school, it will be another disaster for Cleveland. RG111's value in a trade up will increase considerably and there will be no way that he falls to us even if we draft #5 or #6. Holmgren will likely choose to go one more year with McCoy and draft accordingly.
I'm telling you this could be an awful long decade if McCoy doesn't develop and we fail to draft a solid QB this year.
I truly believe that Sanchez will have his breakout year next season. He was really inexperienced coming out of college so while he has been half decent, the best is yet to come and we could be crying in our milk over Mangini's decision to trade the pick for a long time to come.
God, I pray Barkley declares because it could be our last chance for many years to come, to secure a franchise QB for this team.

Brown Leader
12-10-2011, 08:07 PM
Best scenario imo, to your dismay IAC, would be to trade down from our first pick with a team coveting Barkley or Griffin, draft Tannehill-first round, and acquire another first or a couple of picks, like a 2nd and 3rd , and just keep building.

Iamcanadian
12-12-2011, 01:00 AM
Well, it is all up to our scouting department now, let's hope they know what they are doing and make the right choice.
Tannehill, Barkley and Griffin will show in the post season where they belong in the draft, if the team believes strongly in Tannehill, so be it, but they had better be right on. Tannehill would get 3 years to prove he has it in your scenario, but if he fails we will be waiting an awful long time before we will be competitive again. If all three are available when it is our pick or even 2, I want us to take the highest ranked guy on our board who they feel can be a franchise QB, I don't want them settling for 4th best just because you want some more picks.

j05son
12-13-2011, 03:05 AM
I've heard some chatter and rumors that Indy would like to pass on Luck and grab a developmental guy for Manning as well as some weapons for a SB run. While I view it as highly unlikely, we are the only team that can really offer a package to obtain the first overall pick and luck. I'm usually all for getting picks but losing 3 firsts and another pick to grab the best QB prospect since Manning I'd do in a heartbeat.

I know a lot of people hate on our WR's or want upgrades, but I feel Colt is more of a bottleneck than our WR's. Yes they can use an upgrade but it seems as if other teams don't respect Colt enough to not play heavy in the box. We rarely see go routes or plays/attempts longer than 20 yards. That's either on Colt or on Shurmur.

Iamcanadian
12-18-2011, 12:06 PM
Indy isn't about to trade their #1 overall pick, Luck, for any price. Any rumours at this point are shear rubbish, Peyton isn't that healthy and is getting on in years, and Luck sets them up, at least for the next decade.
However, a trade up for RG111 or Barkley still gets us a top franchise QB and any price will be worth it. This is very close to 2004 draft with Eli, Rivers and Roethlisberger, whichever one you get, you are set for a decade, as a contender, as long as your GM and HC are decent.
If we fail to acquire any of them, and McCoy isn't the answer, then this franchise is in deep trouble with a horrible immediate future.

armageddon
12-29-2011, 01:10 PM
would you guys trade both your #1's and a 2nd to the Rams at #2 to take RG3 ?

j05son
12-30-2011, 01:56 AM
would you guys trade both your #1's and a 2nd to the Rams at #2 to take RG3 ?

No./10characters

keylime_5
01-01-2012, 11:01 PM
The Rams aren't in any position to trade down. If a team wants RGIII they know that they can get him at #3 overall which is cheaper. If no one makes any trades then Griffin falls to the Browns at #4.....if anyone trades up for RGIII (Washington, Miami, or even the Browns) then it will be in the 3 spot.

ArkyRamsFan
01-02-2012, 11:43 AM
The Rams aren't in any position to trade down. If a team wants RGIII they know that they can get him at #3 overall which is cheaper. If no one makes any trades then Griffin falls to the Browns at #4.....if anyone trades up for RGIII (Washington, Miami, or even the Browns) then it will be in the 3 spot.

What you say may very well be the case; but what if the Rams themselves take RGIII and then make Sam Bradford available?

Would the Browns be interested in him and, if so, how much do you think they would be willing to give?

keylime_5
01-02-2012, 05:44 PM
The Rams aren't gonna trade Bradford, gimme a break. Too much money tied into him right now, that is not a contract that they can just dump in a trade. RGIII's chances of being a franchise QB aren't any less than Bradford's either, so it would be a lateral move. They would rather keep Bradford than take Griffin and eat all that dead money, it's a no brainer.

Rams are gonna take Kalil, I would be shocked if that isn't the case. If anyone makes a move in the top 5 picks it will be Minnesota at #3 - they are in prime position to trade down with a team who is desperate for RGIII.

j05son
01-02-2012, 10:01 PM
What you say may very well be the case; but what if the Rams themselves take RGIII and then make Sam Bradford available?

Would the Browns be interested in him and, if so, how much do you think they would be willing to give?

My understanding is that STL would have to pay Bradford $21,000,000 to not play for them anymore.

Brown Leader
01-03-2012, 09:54 PM
Given that I'm really liking the 2013 QB class now, with at least 4 prospects that I'm projecting next April I'd rate over RGIII now, (Matt Barkley, Tyler Bray, Tyler Wilson, and Logan Thomas) I'd have no problem with Seneca starting next season. I've always been a fan of Wallace and if not for about 2 inches, he would have been starting in the league well before now or at least had a legitimate shot. Before Wallace took over for Colt in week 15, McCoy actually had more career passes attempted than Seneca.

Imo the offense was more explosive, as far as plays over 20yds, (which we were last in the league in) with Seneca starting, and for the most part he was more adept at getting out of some of Shurmur's terrible play calls. I thought Little showed more yac ability, (possibly the ball getting there a few ticks sooner) and Cribbs looked like a legit WR, owing to the chemistry he and Wallace have.

From what I've seen on RGIII I'm really skeptical he's a franchise QB type, especially compared to those likely coming out next year. If the Browns miss on another first round QB.....well, you know.

keylime_5
01-04-2012, 12:04 PM
I think there's no question that we should go after either Griffin or Flynn this year. If we fall flat in those acquisitions then I would even try to get Ryan Tannehill later in the draft. We need to find our QB this year instead of going with Colt and Seneca for another year IMO - delaying it another year just sets the franchise back another year.

Remember what Holmgren said: It took him 5 years to get to the Super Bowl in Green Bay; it took him 7 years to get there in Seattle; the reason it took him 2 more years in Seattle was because he didn't find a QB until after 2 years.

lacotomo
01-04-2012, 12:41 PM
Not too much being said about Richardson although McShay thinks he is our guy and the mock on this site(although outdated) has us taking Richardson too. With Hillis being questionable, and Hardesty being brittle, I like the idea of getting a 'go to' RB who is able to break long runs and is good between the tackles. For their 2nd #1 pick, I am good with Floyd too. I know defense is a priority, as we are once again last against the run, but for once can we be the team that gets the playmakers? I am tired of someone else getting the Adrian Peterson's, and Calvin Johnson's, and Dez Bryant/AJ Green's etc. Someone above said that playmakers can make an average QB look great, and lack of playmakers can make them look terrible. I agree with to a certain extent. I think Colt is good enough. Is he Brees/Brady/Manning? No. Is he good enough to win with talent around him? I think/hope so. I know it works both ways (great QB makes average players sweet - see Lance Moore, Devery Henderson, Meachem, etc), but he also has had Coleston, a good running game, and a good to great TE every year too....Brady is not of this world when it comes to this and does not count...

Anyway, I say go 'O' early, give Colt one more year to show he can be good enough, then find some 'D' in free agency, or God forbid, try and score with other teams if you can't stop them. (Here is where I would quote the Browns embarrassing percentages of scoring on their first drive, total points per game average, red zone TD percentage, # of red zone drives per game, 2nd half scoring totals, 3rd quarter scoring totals, # of quarters this year without a TD)- did I miss any :)....

lacotomo
01-04-2012, 01:01 PM
I am not sold on RG3 being that guy. Of course I was wrong on Cam Cheater being as electric as he is this quick too...

Really not sold on Landry Jones either. He only threw one TD in his last four games, and that was in the bowl game. A great college QB would have found someone, at least the FB in the flat, or backup TE or someone! I know he lost his best WR at that time, but COME ON! I don't like to see a QB that you want to be the man for you for 10-12 years disintegrating as soon as one of his weapons goes down.

I like Barkley and Luck(duh). Tannyhill is not bad but I think would be a project and we don't want/have time for that right now. With Barkley staying in school, Luck would be the only can't miss IMO(duh again).

Iamcanadian
01-04-2012, 01:42 PM
I think there's no question that we should go after either Griffin or Flynn this year. If we fall flat in those acquisitions then I would even try to get Ryan Tannehill later in the draft. We need to find our QB this year instead of going with Colt and Seneca for another year IMO - delaying it another year just sets the franchise back another year.

Remember what Holmgren said: It took him 5 years to get to the Super Bowl in Green Bay; it took him 7 years to get there in Seattle; the reason it took him 2 more years in Seattle was because he didn't find a QB until after 2 years.

I agree, RG111 or Flynn, preferably RG111 although we will in all likelihood have to trade up to get the pick.
I also agree that Tannehill has to be in the picture if we fail to land the 1st 2. I'm not liking next year's crop of QB's one bit.
People forget that it takes time to develop a winning team capable of winning a Super Bowl, especially at QB. Every year you put off drafting one adds 2 or 3 years to your timetable for success.

keylime_5
01-04-2012, 02:21 PM
Not too much being said about Richardson although McShay thinks he is our guy and the mock on this site(although outdated) has us taking Richardson too. With Hillis being questionable, and Hardesty being brittle, I like the idea of getting a 'go to' RB who is able to break long runs and is good between the tackles. For their 2nd #1 pick, I am good with Floyd too. I know defense is a priority, as we are once again last against the run, but for once can we be the team that gets the playmakers? I am tired of someone else getting the Adrian Peterson's, and Calvin Johnson's, and Dez Bryant/AJ Green's etc. Someone above said that playmakers can make an average QB look great, and lack of playmakers can make them look terrible. I agree with to a certain extent. I think Colt is good enough. Is he Brees/Brady/Manning? No. Is he good enough to win with talent around him? I think/hope so. I know it works both ways (great QB makes average players sweet - see Lance Moore, Devery Henderson, Meachem, etc), but he also has had Coleston, a good running game, and a good to great TE every year too....Brady is not of this world when it comes to this and does not count...

Anyway, I say go 'O' early, give Colt one more year to show he can be good enough, then find some 'D' in free agency, or God forbid, try and score with other teams if you can't stop them. (Here is where I would quote the Browns embarrassing percentages of scoring on their first drive, total points per game average, red zone TD percentage, # of red zone drives per game, 2nd half scoring totals, 3rd quarter scoring totals, # of quarters this year without a TD)- did I miss any :)....


My philosophy on drafting runninbacks in the first round is that you don't do it unless you have all the other pieces in place. Certainly don't draft one in the top 5 unless he's a hall of famer type like Sanders, Tomlinson, or Peterson. Richardson is more of a Steven Jackson type, and we have so many needs, and fantastic RBs are so easy to find later in the draft, so I would much rather draft RGIII or Justin Blackmon at #4 overall. I think we have to find the QB this year, I don't think they can afford to wait on Colt another year, they have to make a move.

kalbears13
01-04-2012, 07:13 PM
Obviously Cleveland needs a franchise quarterback but if they don't believe RGIII, Flynn or any other QB doesn't have the potential to be one, then they shouldn't waste a high pick(s) just because they "need" a quarterback. There is a lot of talent they can add instead and wait until next year with what seems to be a strong QB class. Colt and Seneca aren't great but they're not completely incompetent.

Brown Leader
01-04-2012, 10:30 PM
I agree, RG111 or Flynn, preferably RG111 although we will in all likelihood have to trade up to get the pick.
I also agree that Tannehill has to be in the picture if we fail to land the 1st 2. I'm not liking next year's crop of QB's one bit.
People forget that it takes time to develop a winning team capable of winning a Super Bowl, especially at QB. Every year you put off drafting one adds 2 or 3 years to your timetable for success.
Wait. You don't see anything special in Matt Barkley, Tyler Wilson, Tyler Bray, Logan Thomas, Brock Osweiler, E.J. Manuel, or James Franklin with another year of development?

j05son
01-05-2012, 12:52 AM
Wait. You don't see anything special in Matt Barkley, Tyler Wilson, Tyler Bray, Logan Thomas, Brock Osweiler, E.J. Manuel, or James Franklin with another year of development?

IAC thinks Barkley is garbage because he returned to school for his senior season.

JBCX
01-05-2012, 02:35 PM
My philosophy on drafting runninbacks in the first round is that you don't do it unless you have all the other pieces in place. Certainly don't draft one in the top 5 unless he's a hall of famer type like Sanders, Tomlinson, or Peterson. Richardson is more of a Steven Jackson type, and we have so many needs, and fantastic RBs are so easy to find later in the draft, so I would much rather draft RGIII or Justin Blackmon at #4 overall. I think we have to find the QB this year, I don't think they can afford to wait on Colt another year, they have to make a move.

That's a very good strategy.

A RB is only worth a top-15 draft pick if you can confidently say that his career will be similar to one of the following players: Emmitt Smith, Barry Sanders, Adrian Peterson, LaDanian Tomlinson, Marshall Faulk, or Edgerrin James.

If you have any doubts about including him in that pantheon, then he's not worth it.

initial_flo
01-05-2012, 06:24 PM
That's a very good strategy.

A RB is only worth a top-15 draft pick if you can confidently say that his career will be similar to one of the following players: Emmitt Smith, Barry Sanders, Adrian Peterson, LaDanian Tomlinson, Marshall Faulk, or Edgerrin James.

If you have any doubts about including him in that pantheon, then he's not worth it.

I agree with the above RBs and also on other 'lower' value positions. I think the same, "don't touch in 1st RD unless elite player/elite value" applies to RTs, Safeties, Guards, TEs.

Drives me crazy when I hear on local radio to draft Richardson and a RT in the 1st Round. It's so difficult to get elite QBs, DEs, CBs, and WRs later on. These are all things we desperately need to attend to and have a golden chance to address this spring. It needs to be done otherwise I really don't know how much longer I can stick with this thing.

fear the elf
01-06-2012, 09:45 AM
If this was a year or two ago, I'd probably agree with all of you about the value of RB, RT, TE, etc. However, for whatever reason, I'm starting to think that all of that is bull****.

I want elite players, no matter what position they play. If our FO strongly believes that Richardson is going to be elite, take him. If it's so easy to find RB's later in the draft, why don't we have anyone worth anything? At this point I'd kill to have a guy like Marshawn Lynch on this team, let alone AD.

I want difference makers on this team . . . something to be excited about, and I don't give a damn what position they play.

keylime_5
01-06-2012, 01:01 PM
well I'm sure that was the thinking behind taking CJ Spiller, Knowshon Moreno, Reggie Bush, and even the aforementioned Marshawn Lynch in the top 12 picks. Anyone you take in the top 5 is expected to be a great player, it's just that it's a whole lot harder to find great defensive linemen, defensive backs, quarterbacks, and wide receivers later in the draft than it is to find a pro bowl RB. For every Peterson and Tomlinson there are two dozen guys like Forte, Jones Drew, Arian Foster, Ben Tate, Terrell Davis, Ray Rice, etc. It just seems way more likely these days that a high pick used on a runningback will turn out like Ryan Matthews, Knowshon Moreno, Reggie Bush, CJ Spiller, Cadillac Williams, or Cedric Benson.

If we don't take Richardson then we probably take Griffin, Blackmon, or even Claiborne, and I definitely could get just as if not more excited about those guys in comparison. Now trading down and taking more role players is not what we need to do this year. We did that last year and it worked out good for this draft. We need to cash in on that and get a playmaking impact player or two.

initial_flo
01-06-2012, 05:26 PM
^Griffin, Blackmon, Claiborne in some order would be my top 3 for sure outside of Luck. Not sure if I'm 100% sold on RGIII, still working on that...

But Blackmon would be great TO type number 1 and I think Little would benefit a ton also. And I think the Greg Little effect is very underrated. For a guy who didn't play football in two years and was the only guy that could create separation in this atrocious offense, I still think the sky is the limit as far as a top notch #2 threat. Maybe I'm still drinking the Koolaid, but I think he could be a monster with a legit guy like Blackmon on the other side.

And a dream pairing in the Defensive Back with Claiborne I would also be all in on. The Browns could have thee elite tandem by far in about 2-3 years. Blitzes options all over the place and having 2 possible lockdown corners in this NFL sounds like part of the winning formula to me.

j05son
01-08-2012, 11:09 PM
We will be drafting 4th and 22nd now.

kalbears13
01-08-2012, 11:12 PM
We will be drafting 4th and 22nd now.

Thank you Giants D.

Iamcanadian
01-09-2012, 01:07 PM
Wait. You don't see anything special in Matt Barkley, Tyler Wilson, Tyler Bray, Logan Thomas, Brock Osweiler, E.J. Manuel, or James Franklin with another year of development?

Looks like Osweiler will come out but I doubt he sees round 1. The other have potential but their ceiling isn't close to either Luck's or RG111's. They all carry question marks more serious IMO to Luck or RG111.

Another season may dispel their warts but right now they don't appear to be top 5 material outside of Barkley who I just don't care for. I question his mental toughness after he returned to school, Just another USC QB from a well off family who wants another year of fun and games at college before he has to get down to the serious business of pro football. Is he prepared to put in the time and hard work that you see from Brees, Rodgers, Brady, and Peyton. GM's are really going to want to be blown off their feet in the interview process next post season before he will earn respect from them.

E.J. Manuel may well turnout to be the best of the lot.

Iamcanadian
01-09-2012, 01:20 PM
well I'm sure that was the thinking behind taking CJ Spiller, Knowshon Moreno, Reggie Bush, and even the aforementioned Marshawn Lynch in the top 12 picks. Anyone you take in the top 5 is expected to be a great player, it's just that it's a whole lot harder to find great defensive linemen, defensive backs, quarterbacks, and wide receivers later in the draft than it is to find a pro bowl RB. For every Peterson and Tomlinson there are two dozen guys like Forte, Jones Drew, Arian Foster, Ben Tate, Terrell Davis, Ray Rice, etc. It just seems way more likely these days that a high pick used on a runningback will turn out like Ryan Matthews, Knowshon Moreno, Reggie Bush, CJ Spiller, Cadillac Williams, or Cedric Benson.

If we don't take Richardson then we probably take Griffin, Blackmon, or even Claiborne, and I definitely could get just as if not more excited about those guys in comparison. Now trading down and taking more role players is not what we need to do this year. We did that last year and it worked out good for this draft. We need to cash in on that and get a playmaking impact player or two.

Just a couple of things, getting RG111 may require a trade up costing us either Atlanta's 1st rounder or our own 2nd rounder.
Blackmon is borderline elite for me, just have to see how fast he runs the 40 at the combine.

Claiborne would be a ridiculous pick for a team offensively deprived like us. However, he will remain in the conversation because this year's draft is terribly weak both in elite talent and in depth due to so many juniors declaring last year.

Looking at the trade last year, I'm sure Atlanta factored in the fact that their scouts told them next year's draft basically stinks and giving up picks in those circumstances was well worth the risk. I estimate the 22 nd pick to be not much more than a 2nd round talent and our talent evaluators will really be put to the task of finding anything more than an average starter from it. And now we may have to use that pick to get RG111.

Unless we can get RG111, I think getting impact players will be a very tough find.

keylime_5
01-09-2012, 01:30 PM
I think we're pretty well set up to get an impact player at #4. If we don't get RGIII then Justin Blackmon should be available. Richardson and Claiborne IMO would be disappointments compared to those two, but nonetheless are impact players who will go to multiple pro bowls in their careers and should be among the best in the league with their skill sets. I would be disappointed if we had to trade up 1 spot to grab Griffin with the cost being the 22nd or 37th overall pick in addition to the #4 pick. I would rather just go for Matt Flynn and keep the #4 pick than do that trade.

Iamcanadian
01-09-2012, 02:37 PM
I think we're pretty well set up to get an impact player at #4. If we don't get RGIII then Justin Blackmon should be available. Richardson and Claiborne IMO would be disappointments compared to those two, but nonetheless are impact players who will go to multiple pro bowls in their careers and should be among the best in the league with their skill sets. I would be disappointed if we had to trade up 1 spot to grab Griffin with the cost being the 22nd or 37th overall pick in addition to the #4 pick. I would rather just go for Matt Flynn and keep the #4 pick than do that trade.

Flynn is certainly another option although the way he played against Detroit would have to factor in the mental letdown the Lions defenders suffered after being told Rodgers wasn't playing. It could have made him look a lot better than he really is. Add to that, the prospect that if GB franchises him, still a possibility, he may well cost more than RG111.
I know this, we simply have to get one or the other or our future will look awfully bleak. Blackmon, Richardson or Claiborne would all be weak substitutes.

kalbears13
01-10-2012, 02:42 AM
Another season may dispel their warts but right now they don't appear to be top 5 material outside of Barkley who I just don't care for. I question his mental toughness after he returned to school, Just another USC QB from a well off family who wants another year of fun and games at college before he has to get down to the serious business of pro football. Is he prepared to put in the time and hard work that you see from Brees, Rodgers, Brady, and Peyton. GM's are really going to want to be blown off their feet in the interview process next post season before he will earn respect from them.

Your hate on Barkley has no basis whatsoever. You have no idea what his personality is like and probably have never listened to an interview. The guy stayed at USC after his freshman year after the program was taken its bowl eligibility for his next two years. After all that happened he not only stayed at USC but also helped convince the other players to not transfer. I'm not sure how you can still endorse picking someone like Sanchez over Barkley. Also 3 of those 4 quarterbacks I believe stayed for their senior year. Barkley is a pretty devout Christian so I don't see him going around ******* off.

Iamcanadian
01-14-2012, 09:41 AM
Your hate on Barkley has no basis whatsoever. You have no idea what his personality is like and probably have never listened to an interview. The guy stayed at USC after his freshman year after the program was taken its bowl eligibility for his next two years. After all that happened he not only stayed at USC but also helped convince the other players to not transfer. I'm not sure how you can still endorse picking someone like Sanchez over Barkley. Also 3 of those 4 quarterbacks I believe stayed for their senior year. Barkley is a pretty devout Christian so I don't see him going around ******* off.

I'm just looking at trends and the current trend is that solid NFL QB's come out as juniors. When I look at QB's who returned for their seniors years in recent times, I'm not seeing a lot of success just yet. It may be too early to judge some but I'm not seeing a whole lot out of Leinart, Bradford or Locker.
I am unaware that Barkley is a devout Christian, it would definitely factor into my confidence in him.
I still have Luck and RG111 way ahead of next year's crop as prospects just based on talent, so I think we need to find a QB this year, either Flynn or RG111 whichever one Holmgren believes in.

fear the elf
01-24-2012, 10:21 AM
Does anyone have news on Marcus Benard? How do you think he fits into the equation on the DL? Is he simply a pass rush specialist or is he the running for the full time RE gig? We all know how Sheard was moved to LE in week 2 and appeared to thrive. I would think they keep him there if they think Benard can come back 100% from his accident.

I ask because I've seen a lot people mocking a DE to us with the #22. While I would love to have an awesome defense with a ton of guys to get after the QB (like the Giants), I think this draft needs to focus almost exclusively on offense (unless the value is too good to pass up).

PoopSandwich
01-24-2012, 12:08 PM
I think we're pretty well set up to get an impact player at #4. If we don't get RGIII then Justin Blackmon should be available. Richardson and Claiborne IMO would be disappointments compared to those two, but nonetheless are impact players who will go to multiple pro bowls in their careers and should be among the best in the league with their skill sets. I would be disappointed if we had to trade up 1 spot to grab Griffin with the cost being the 22nd or 37th overall pick in addition to the #4 pick. I would rather just go for Matt Flynn and keep the #4 pick than do that trade.

If Griffin Luck and Blackmon are gone I don't see what would be wrong with drafting Kalil or trading down. We had what was probably the worst right tackle in the entire league, and we could upgrade our line immensely. Free agency is going to be the key to this draft.

keylime_5
01-24-2012, 06:55 PM
I'm not worried about that scenario b/c IMO there is no way that the Vikings pass on Matt Kalil if he is there unless they sign/trade for a left tackle between now and the draft, which seems unlikely b/c left tackles rarely hit the open market and if they do then contenders are prone to sign them over young rebuilding teams like Minnesota.

j05son
01-25-2012, 01:18 AM
Two guys I honestly want to avoid with our forth overall pick (most likely with negative reactions from the majority of the Cleveland Browns fan base) are:

Justin Blackmon WR Oklahoma St

Good QB's make WR's better; not the other way around. While Tom Brady did eventually get some serious weapons at WR it wasn't until every other part of the team was in full motion. Brady and the Patriots were hearing Dynasty talk before Welker and before Moss. New England even traded their top receiver in Deion Branch to Seattle and still didn't miss a beat. Furthermore - Moss' departure didn't seem to hinder Tom Brady's success.

How about a team like, the Baltimore Ravens; who seemingly have all the pieces and are just adding that must have WR. They've added Boldin, Evans, and Houshmandzadeh the past 2 seasons with what results? Would the answer be 2 dropped game winning touchdown passes in the playoffs (Boldin - 2011, Evans - 2012)? How about 4 catches for 36 yards in a playoff loss to Pittsburgh (who get torched over the air by Aaron Rodgers and company)? Boldin contributed with a single catch for -2 yards and TJ Housh with 3 receptions for 38 yards in said Pittsburgh loss. At least the duo of Boldin (6 rec 100 yards 0 tds and a fumble) along with Evans (3rec 39 yards and dropped the game winning TD pass) faired better in their playoff loss to New England.

How much better does a rookie WR make you?
2011 - A.J. Green (CIN) 4-12 322 points before, 9-7 344 points after.
2011 - Julio Jones (ATL) 13-3 414 points before, 10-6 402 points after.
2011 - Johnathon Baldwin (KC) 10-6 366 points before, 7-9 212 points after.
2010 - Dez Bryant (DAL) 11-5 361 points before, 6-10 394 points after.
2010 - Demetrius Thomas (DEN) 8-8 326 points before, 4-12 344 points after.

Well, there's a learning curve with rookies, how about a big name WR?

Chad Henne w/out Marshall 60.8%, 12 TD, 14 INT, 6.4 YPA, 75.2 QB rating.
Chad Henne with Marshall 61.4%, 15 TD, 19 INT, 6.7 YPA, 75.4 QB rating.

Joe Flacco w/out Boldin 63.1%, 21 TD, 12 INT, 7.2 YPA, 88.9 QB rating.
Joe Flacco with Boldin 62.6%, 25 TD, 10 INT, 7.4 YPA, 93.5 QB rating.

Tom Brady with Branch 63%, 26 TD, 14 INT, 7.8 YPA, 92.3 QB rating
Tom Brady w/out Branch 61.8%, 24 TD, 12 INT, 6.8 YPA, 87.9 QB rating.

At the end of the day, WR's don't provide your team with this superior upgrade that justify a top selection when your team has so many other, glaring holes. A young team like ourselves should be addressing the answer of QB first and foremost (as Colt McCoy is still questionable right now), a RDE who can get after the QB, An WOLB who can get after the QB, Another CB to pair with Haden in this pass happy league (which allows Sheldon Brown to move to FS and solve another secondary issue), a RT to improve the awful side of our line, some depth for both sides of the line (games are won and lost in the trenches before they are ever won or lost on the wideout). We frankly have a lot of needs and I feel all of the above are far more important than a flashy WR who will have limited touches per game or even wasting the forth overall on a WR to try and overcome the bottleneck which is our QB.

Trent Richardson RB Alabama

RB's are a dime a dozen in the NFL. Honestly, this seems truer now than ever.

Let's alone look at Cleveland:

2011 - Chris Ogbonnaya signed off the streets has 2 games where he bares the workload. 19 carries for 90 yards (4.7 avg) along with 2 rec for 19 yards. Against Jax, 21 carries 115 yards (5.7 avg) 1 TD, 2 rec for 19 yards.

2010 - Peyton Hillis 270 carries 1,177 yards (4.4 avg) 11 TD (5 Fumbles Lost), 61 rec for 477 rec yards and 2 rec TD.

2009 - Jerome Harrison has 4 100+ rushing games (CIN - 121, KC - 286, OAK - 148, JAX - 127), only had 5 games of 15+ carries and finished the year with 862 yards (4.4 avg) with 5 TD.

2008 - Jamal Lewis 279 carries 1002 yards 3.6 avg, 4 TD.

2007 - Jamal Lewis 298 carries 1304 yards 4.4 avg, 9 TD.

2006 - Reuben Droughns 220 carries 758 yards 3.4 avg 4 TD.

2005 - Reuben Droughns 309 carries 1232 yards 4.0 avg 2 TD

So in the last 7 years with our RBs, we've had 4 1k rushers with basically a guy who was at the end of their career or journeymen who had their only successful year(s?) with us.

How about the teams who played in the Super Bowl during said time frame. What was their running back situation?

2011:
New England, 1764 team rush yards, leader - Green Ellis (undrafted) 667 yards, Ridley (3rd rounder) 441.
New York Giants, 1427 team rush yards, leader - Bradshaw (7th round) 659 yards, Jacobs (4th rounder) 571 yards.

2010:
Pittsburgh, 1903 team rush yards, leader - Mendenhall (1st round, 23 pick) 928 yards.
Green Bay, 1606 team rush yards, leader - Jackson (2nd round, 63 pick) 703 yards.

2009:
New Orleans, 2106 team rush yards, leader - Bell (undrafted) 654 yards, Thomas (undrafted) 793 yards.
Indianapolis, 1294 team rush yards, leader - Addai (1st round 30th pick) 828 yards.

2008:
Pittsburgh, 1690 team rush yards, leader - Parker (undrafted) 791, Moore (4th rounder) 581.
Arizona, 1178 team rush yards, leader - hightower (5th rounder) 399, James (4th overall pick) 514.

2007:
New England, 1849 team rush yards, leader - Maroney (1st rounder) 835 yards.
New York Giants, 2148 team rush yards, leader - Jacobs (4th rounder) 1009 yards.

2006:
Chicago, 1918 team rush yards, leader - Jones (7th overall pick) 1210 yards.
Indianapolis, 1762 team rush yards, leader - addai (1st round 30th pick) 1081.

Top draftees or those "once in a decade running backs" aren't taking their team to the big game (exception Thomas and that Chicago D in '06). Guys like Peterson and Johnson aren't carrying their teams to playoff berths this year or deep into the playoffs so far in their young careers. Tomlinson could never get over the hump for a once in a decade player. McFadden, Bush, Brown, Benson, Cadillac Williams, Ricky Williams, Steven Jackson, McGahee, and William Green never accomplished much in the playoffs or seen a Super Bowl.

Running Back just frankly isn't a top priority in the NFL and the adage of a dime a dozen is true. We have far to many holes that need to be addressed before we look at a running back in the first round no matter how talented the individual.

If Griffin Luck and Blackmon are gone I don't see what would be wrong with drafting Kalil or trading down. We had what was probably the worst right tackle in the entire league, and we could upgrade our line immensely. Free agency is going to be the key to this draft.

Would love to draft Kalil or trade down and get more picks for a team desperate to add talent in multiple areas.

fear the elf
01-25-2012, 10:49 AM
lot's of stuff

I think your assertions about the WR and RB position are misguided.

I'm of the belief that these positions aren't necessary in the presence of an elite level QB, however, we don't/will not have an elite level QB in 2012. Therefore, that makes talented players at these positions necessary.

People keep bringing up guys like Tom Brady, Matt Stafford, etc. as proof that you don't need great players around a young QB for him to develop and make your team a contender. I wrote a pretty long post about it in the RGIII trade rumors thread that I thought showed that almost nobody develops into a top QB alone. Drew Brees didn't just enter the NFL as a stud and elevate the play of a bunch of JAG's. That's just now how it has ever worked.

In my opinion, talent + situation = success. And this team is not a good situation for a young QB. That's why I think you take Blackmon or Richardson, to improve the situation for when a QB is drafted.

I'm of the belief that this year should be about getting a WR/RT/RB and then next year you can sell out by trading your 1st RD and next years 1st RD to get Barkley or Wilson. Again, just my opinion on how to foster the growth of a young QB.


Again, I'd like to point out that I'm not against drafting RGIII at #4 if available, but I am against giving up picks to move up when the talent around him is among the worst supporting cast in the league.

Cudders, I think you are being far too kind in your evaluation of our current roster and, as you mentioned, there is no guarantee that Hillis (arguably the most talented skill player) will even be back.

I guess I'm a little confused by those that say "give up whatever it takes" to get yourself a (possible) franchise QB. Are you making these comments keeping in mind the current offensive talent on this roster or in a vacuum? I ask because I feel like people think that a rookie QB is going to magically elevate the play of the offense somehow. We are talking about a rookie, not some 5 year vet...

Just look at the list of "franchise" QBs and the help they had in their first year as a starter (first year as a starter mind you, not as a rookie; so some of these guys had a chance to watch and learn). I indicated All-pros (AP), Pro Bowls (PB), and yardage for anybody who you wouldn't think is anything special (ex., Selvin Young and Travis Henry):

QB, 1st Yr as Starter

Manning, 1998
Harrison
Faulk

Brady, 2001
Troy Brown (PB)

Brees, 2002
Tomlinson (PB)

Vick, 2002
Dunn

Roethlisberger, 2004
Bettis (PB)/Staley (comb. 1770 yds)
Ward (PB)
Burress
OL (2 AP's & 1 PB)

Manning, 2005
Barber (AP)
Shockey (PB)
Burress (1200 yds)

Rivers, 2006
Tomlinson (AP)
Gates (AP)

Romo, 2006
Owens
Witten (PB)
Terry Glenn (1000 yds)

Cutler, 2007
Marshall
Young/Henry (combined 1400 yds)

Schaub, 2007
Johnson
Daniels

Rodgers, 2008
Driver
Jennings
Grant (1200 yds)

Ryan, 2008
Turner (AP)
White (PB)

Stafford, 2009
Johnson

So the guys that got the "least" help where probably Brady, Brees, Vick, and Stafford, right? So I guess if we trade up using our #22 pick to get RGIII we can expect him to elevate the play of his team if he's a HOFer and possible GOAT (Brady); a HOFer (Brees), a mediocre QB that goes to jail, gets signed by a much more talented team, and rides the bench for a year (Vick); or has a Decepticon (and probable HOFer at this rate) at WR (Stafford). [/sarcasm]

Almost nobody does it on their own, you need talent around a young QB. Anybody that thinks this team is talented enough to just trade away a 1st RD pick and insert RGIII into the lineup and he's going to succeed isn't facing the facts. This offense is bereft of NFL caliber starters at the skill positions.

fear the elf
01-25-2012, 10:52 AM
For the record, I'd love for the draft to go something like:

#4 :: Justin Blackmon, WR Oklahoma State
#22 :: Mike Adams, OT Ohio State
#37 :: Doug Martin, RB Boise State

j05son
01-25-2012, 03:39 PM
I think your assertions about the WR and RB position are misguided.

I'm of the belief that these positions aren't necessary in the presence of an elite level QB, however, we don't/will not have an elite level QB in 2012. Therefore, that makes talented players at these positions necessary.

People keep bringing up guys like Tom Brady, Matt Stafford, etc. as proof that you don't need great players around a young QB for him to develop and make your team a contender. I wrote a pretty long post about it in the RGIII trade rumors thread that I thought showed that almost nobody develops into a top QB alone. Drew Brees didn't just enter the NFL as a stud and elevate the play of a bunch of JAG's. That's just now how it has ever worked.

In my opinion, talent + situation = success. And this team is not a good situation for a young QB. That's why I think you take Blackmon or Richardson, to improve the situation for when a QB is drafted.

I'm of the belief that this year should be about getting a WR/RT/RB and then next year you can sell out by trading your 1st RD and next years 1st RD to get Barkley or Wilson. Again, just my opinion on how to foster the growth of a young QB.

Atlanta:
They draft Michael Vick first overall by trading up for him (I'll agree with that, you have to have a qb in this league to compete and they felt he was their guy). How do they add talent around Vick? They draft a RB in TJ Duckett with their first pick the next year. They then trade their first round the following year to Buffalo for Peerless Price (WR). The next 3 years selections are used on DeAngelo Hall (cb), Michael Jenkins (wr), Roddy White (wr). Vick is then arrested and out of football the next two years. So Atlanta used 4 of their 5 selections to upgrade their offense around Vick and accomplished what? Two playoff appearances with Vick at the helms and two head coaches getting fired. The two losses in the playoffs came by the hands of Philadelphia who not only went to both NFC championship games and a Super Bowl those 2 years, they also used their first rounders on a corner, an offensive tackle, 2 defensive tackles and a defensive end.

Now you fast forward a bit and you get Matt Ryan 2nd overall as your new QB. Atlanta spends their next 3 first round picks to improve the trenches and defense. Along with some offensive weapons left over for the previous failed attempts in..........yeah just White. They eventually sign Tony Gonzlez and Michael Turner (who was a 5th round pick and proves RB's are a dime a dozen and you don't need to spend top 10 picks to get one). They go to the playoffs 2 out of the next 3 years and then they make that dreaded trade with Cleveland. They go after that once in a decade WR in Julio Jones, I mean they mortgage the future by giving up 5 draft picks, 2 of them are first rounders for a WR that helped the organization take a step back from where they were previously. Julio Jones along with White, Gonzo, Turner and Matty Ice - a dynamic offense showed the world what their offense was capable in the playoffs as they didn't put up a single point in the wild card loss to New York. Now they're going into this offseason still missing draft picks including their first rounder to help them get over that hump.

Detroit:
So Detroit drafts Joey Harrington in 2002 and add talent by getting wr Carlos Rogers (03), wr Roy Williams (04), rb Kevin Smith (05), wr Mike Williams (05), lb Ernie Simms (06), wr Calvin Johnson (07), ot Gosder Cherilus (08), qb Matt Stafford (09) - lol at all the "help" Joey got, te Brandon Pettigrew (10), de Suh (11). Detriot has been awul for years up until now and they've drafted 2 "franchise" qb's, 4 "once in a decade" wrs, 1 tackle to protect their "franchise" qbs, a tight end, and a linebacker. I get what you were saying in "Look at megatron is helping Stafford" but I wonder what a ******* offensive line would have done for Stafford. I wonder how talented Detroit could have been witout 75% of their first round WR corps busting, or 80% of their offensive play-makers busting before Stafford got there. If anything, Detroit proves my point more than it proves yours.

Pittsburgh:
They've drafted 2 offensive play-makers in the last decade. I went back 12 years to include Plaxico since you listed him. So 3 play-makers in 12 years in which 2 of them were let go by Pittsburgh (Holmes and Burress) where once is about to go to his third team and the other is on his third team. Then you have Mendenhall whos nothing more than a product of the system; the same system in fact that has always had success running the ball no matter if it was Jerome Bettis, Duece Staley, or Willie Parker. Pittsburgh's success at WR is with Hines Ward (3rd rounder), Mike Wallace (3rd rounder), Antonio Brown (6th rounder), and Heath Miller (1st rounder) - but I value TE morose than WR. I'm not saying Big Ben came into a bad situation or anything, hell he came in with a damn good defense and a great offensive line, he had a strong running game but the fact is that he is making his WRs better not the other way around. There's a reason why Ben is brought up in elite QB conversations even though Pitt has let go 2 of their "elite" first round receivers. I still wouldn't let my girlfriend/sister/close-female-friend go into a unisex bathroom with him though.

Cincinnati:
How about Carson Palmer and the 3-11 Bengals vs the 8-6 San Deigo Chargers. Carson had the best statistical night of his life going 16-21, 269 yards, 12.8 ypa, 4 TD, 0 INT, 157.2 QB rating. Leading rusher for Cincinnati had 52 yards with a 2.2 ypc and both Chad Ochocinco and Terrel Owens sat that game - neither played. While I'm not saying that the current Carson Palmer is a good QB, the point that good QBs make the team better is true and evident by a statline with the teams top 2 offensive "play-makers" out.

I'm not going to go and do every example you posted (plus I've already done New England) and I'm not saying WR and RB don't help a QB out it's just not so important as many make it out to be. There are many other positions that should hold a premium over wr and rb in today's game that I would rather go best player available (Luck, Claiborne, Kalil, RG3 - in that order) or trade down and get more picks to help a team lacking talent in key spots (RDE, CB, RT, LB opposite Gocong) and desperate for depth (particularly the lines).

fear the elf
01-25-2012, 04:08 PM
The point isn't that already established guys need a great WR or RB. The point is that the great QBs in the NFL all had talent at either WR or RB to get to where they are today.

You cite guys like Joey Harrington and Michael Vick. Those guys were drafted onto teams bereft of talent when they got there. I'm saying, they should have added at least one playmaker the year before in the draft or during free agency. That playmaker makes it easier for the QB to develop into a franchise guy that (this is where we agree) doesn't need high draft picks at WR and RB to be great, because he already is great!

For example, Roethlesberger was able to lean on guys like Hines Ward, Jerome Bettis, and Plaxico Burress in his first few seasons. Once he established himself as a franchise QB, the Steelers didn't need the big names around him anymore. Going back to my point, if he doesn't have those three guys in his first few seasons, he gets killed out there and never develops into the QB that you see today.

That's my stance on developing young QBs. You need guys to help them in their first few years. No QB is entering this offense next year and making the guys around him better. Without a WR or RB to lean on (either from the draft or free agency), he will go the way of Tim Couch before him...

j05son
01-25-2012, 04:49 PM
The point isn't that already established guys need a great WR or RB. The point is that the great QBs in the NFL all had talent at either WR or RB to get to where they are today.

You cite guys like Joey Harrington and Michael Vick. Those guys were drafted onto teams bereft of talent when they got there. I'm saying, they should have added at least one playmaker the year before in the draft or during free agency. That playmaker makes it easier for the QB to develop into a franchise guy that (this is where we agree) doesn't need high draft picks at WR and RB to be great, because he already is great!

For example, Roethlesberger was able to lean on guys like Hines Ward, Jerome Bettis, and Plaxico Burress in his first few seasons. Once he established himself as a franchise QB, the Steelers didn't need the big names around him anymore. Going back to my point, if he doesn't have those three guys in his first few seasons, he gets killed out there and never develops into the QB that you see today.

That's my stance on developing young QBs. You need guys to help them in their first few years. No QB is entering this offense next year and making the guys around him better. Without a WR or RB to lean on (either from the draft or free agency), he will go the way of Tim Couch before him...

and I'm disagreeing especially if it means using your top picks on low rated positions to help one position instead of addressing other areas to help the overall team. I would rather have an elite offensive line to develop my QB than an elite group of receivers (a la the Detroit Lions approach). I'm saying that WR's and RB's especially can be found outside the first round. In fact many of today's top receivers were mid round guys and undrafted guys and running backs are again, a dime a dozen. The great Jerry Rice only touched the ball a handful of times a game and he wasn't added until the niners went 18-1 coming off a Super Bowl victory. Plus young qb's typically rely on their tight ends which we happen to have a strong selection of. Lastly, Vick lead the falcons to be the first team ever to beat Green Bay in the playoffs in Lambeau as a first time starter. Falcons would have been much better off to address other areas of their team instead of over valuing offensive "play-makers" and maybe then they could have beaten Philly or have a stronger team for Matt Ryan instead of making the same mistakes mortgaging their future for a flashy WR who still can't help them put up points in the playoffs.

Even going off your own list, I would say Brady, Brees, Vick, and Cutler (why are you listing Marshall when he was drafted same year 4th round thus proving my point that there wasn't much in Denver besides a good offensive line and a system running game that anyone can succeed in which helps when you have A GOOD OFFENSIVE LINE). You list Rivers, Schaub and Rodgers but I feel all three would be fine without their "elite" wr because they are all franchise guys who were able to be taught under other franchise guys in Brees, Favre and Vick. Plus I would bet Stafford would be better without megatron but with a good offensive line instead of a **** line and an elite wr.

Would rather my young QB develop from coaching and playing behind a good line not taking shots like Stafford, Bradford, Carr and Couch and having a chance than relying on a receiver or string of failed receivers (a la Detroit).

Brown Leader
01-25-2012, 06:35 PM
I agree with J05son on this. CHFF calls it their shiny hood ornament theory on the value of WRs and have a ton of analysis to back it up. And in today's game the same applies to RBs.

As to FTE's take, I think talent always shows through. A talented QB is a talented QB regardless of what's around him. Team success won't be there until everything gets better but I don't entirely agree that a bad team is a death sentence to a young guy that is a good QB. And every team has some talent on it. Losing is not only about not having good players; there's an argument to be had that winning/losing in the NFL is just as much about scheme and preparation. Which is why our OC hire is a bigger deal than it's being made out to be. So, in theory, I'm not opposed to this team trading up for a QB, but I just don't think Griffin is worthy.

What's happening to RG3 is the Cam Newton effect. The majority of draft guys last year thought Newton was a huge project and likely bust, but after rewriting the rookie records for a QB everyone now looks at the next top ranked dual threat spread guy as the next big thing. I recognize the counter argument, that another rookie spread guy also had an incredible season and that the league is trending toward the passing game with 3 guys also breaking the passing yard record, (meaning I could be way off) but I still think he's getting grossly overrated.

BUT, while I agree with J05son, the big difference in this draft is that we have 2 1st rounders. That gives us the ability to add the all important future QB by negotiating our 2nd first rounder (assuming there's one we like), by staying put or moving up, and grabbing that elite playmaker with the 4th. Having 2 picks in the first negates the positional non-value of taking a WR that high. If there were an elite DE in this draft then it would be a different story.

fear the elf
01-25-2012, 07:28 PM
and I'm disagreeing especially if it means using your top picks on low rated positions to help one position instead of addressing other areas to help the overall team. I would rather have an elite offensive line to develop my QB than an elite group of receivers (a la the Detroit Lions approach). I'm saying that WR's and RB's especially can be found outside the first round. In fact many of today's top receivers were mid round guys and undrafted guys and running backs are again, a dime a dozen. The great Jerry Rice only touched the ball a handful of times a game and he wasn't added until the niners went 18-1 coming off a Super Bowl victory. Plus young qb's typically rely on their tight ends which we happen to have a strong selection of. Lastly, Vick lead the falcons to be the first team ever to beat Green Bay in the playoffs in Lambeau as a first time starter. Falcons would have been much better off to address other areas of their team instead of over valuing offensive "play-makers" and maybe then they could have beaten Philly or have a stronger team for Matt Ryan instead of making the same mistakes mortgaging their future for a flashy WR who still can't help them put up points in the playoffs.

Even going off your own list, I would say Brady, Brees, Vick, and Cutler (why are you listing Marshall when he was drafted same year 4th round thus proving my point that there wasn't much in Denver besides a good offensive line and a system running game that anyone can succeed in which helps when you have A GOOD OFFENSIVE LINE). You list Rivers, Schaub and Rodgers but I feel all three would be fine without their "elite" wr because they are all franchise guys who were able to be taught under other franchise guys in Brees, Favre and Vick. Plus I would bet Stafford would be better without megatron but with a good offensive line instead of a **** line and an elite wr.

Would rather my young QB develop from coaching and playing behind a good line not taking shots like Stafford, Bradford, Carr and Couch and having a chance than relying on a receiver or string of failed receivers (a la Detroit).

I think we are essentially saying the same thing. I'm not saying you have to get a WR or RB necessarily, just talent in general. Those just happened to be the positions I pointed out because I feel we are weakest at those positions. Also, I don't believe the addition of talent HAS to come in the draft, just as long as it's there to help the QB, be it from free agency, trade, or the draft and be it RG, RT, WR, RB, or TE. I point out Marshall because he had the talent to help a young QB, not because of his draft position.

I also agee with Brown Leader that "a talented QB is a talented QB regardless of what's around him", however, there are plenty of talented guys that never pan out. There are plenty of guys that have as much or more talent than Rivers that never worked out for a number of reasons, but I think one of the biggest reasons that gets overlooked is who he had helping him out; LT, Gates, and a solid OL. IMO, guys that become great, like Rivers, have the right combination of talent, hard work, coaching, and support on the field to get it right; and that "perfect storm" is very rare, obviously, since there are only 10-12 "franchise" guys out of the dozen that try each year.

So, I'm sorry if it sounded like I was attacking you. And I didn't mean to say that we have to draft a WR and RB in this draft. I just think if we are going to make a run at RGIII or whoever, we need to bring in a massive haul from either free agency, the draft, or both because nobody can succeed in the situation as it currently stands.

Brown Leader
01-25-2012, 08:35 PM
I think we are essentially saying the same thing. I'm not saying you have to get a WR or RB necessarily, just talent in general. Those just happened to be the positions I pointed out because I feel we are weakest at those positions. Also, I don't believe the addition of talent HAS to come in the draft, just as long as it's there to help the QB, be it from free agency, trade, or the draft and be it RG, RT, WR, RB, or TE. I point out Marshall because he had the talent to help a young QB, not because of his draft position.

I also agee with Brown Leader that "a talented QB is a talented QB regardless of what's around him", however, there are plenty of talented guys that never pan out. There are plenty of guys that have as much or more talent than Rivers that never worked out for a number of reasons, but I think one of the biggest reasons that gets overlooked is who he had helping him out; LT, Gates, and a solid OL. IMO, guys that become great, like Rivers, have the right combination of talent, hard work, coaching, and support on the field to get it right; and that "perfect storm" is very rare, obviously, since there are only 10-12 "franchise" guys out of the dozen that try each year.

So, I'm sorry if it sounded like I was attacking you. And I didn't mean to say that we have to draft a WR and RB in this draft. I just think if we are going to make a run at RGIII or whoever, we need to bring in a massive haul from either free agency, the draft, or both because nobody can succeed in the situation as it currently stands.

See, I disagree though. Rivers would be a very good to great QB no matter where he was. Aside from Gates, who's a HOF player, a different question is how good would some of that surrounding talent be if Rivers wasn't there. You're underestimating the talent of Rivers if you think there's been plenty guys just as talented or better. Tom Brady was going to be a great QB wherever he ended up. The only thing arguable is whether or not he'd be GOAT without Belichick. But very good or great to not panning out is a huge difference. If a guy didn't pan out it was because he wasn't good enough or he suffered injuries not because he wasn't in an ideal situation. If you're talking about the other skill positions then I'd tend to agree, but not at QB. It's more about having the opportunity, concerning the situation, rather than what kind of talent is around them.

fear the elf
01-26-2012, 08:08 AM
Hmm, I guess I just have a hard time believing that these guys are just so much better than everyone else. Guys with immense talent enter the league every year, so how are there only a dozen (or less) that are any good? I think some of it has to do with their situation. I do believe that some guys might just be able to overcome anything, like Brady, but he could be the GOAT, so it's tough to expect that from other guys.

When you rate them as prospects, it's not like a guy like Cutler was heads and shoulders above guys that never really turned the corner (Leinart). But put in a decent situation with time to develop, a couple of guys to bail him out now and then, etc. is important, IMO.

I guess that's why this stuff is so interesting, everybody has an opinion on how **** should be done.

Brown Leader
02-08-2012, 08:24 PM
Holmgren let the cat out the bag.

Referring to the April 26-28 NFL draft, in which the Browns own two first-round picks (Nos. 4 and 22 overall), Holmgren said, "It's a big year. It's a big draft for us."

That can only mean one thing.....Big Brock Osweiler.

http://cdn.bleacherreport.net/images_root/slides/photos/001/511/261/130772487_display_image.jpg

BuckeyeDan17
02-12-2012, 04:55 PM
I'll tell you what, I think there's some pressure on the front office this year. We are in a pretty good situation with the amount of picks we have, where the picks are, etc. If our talent level isn't greatly improved with this draft alone, Randy should have a talk with the Walrus that's running our football operations.

Nevertheless, I'm excited for the draft this year, like Browns fans always are.

Iamcanadian
02-24-2012, 09:14 AM
I think we are essentially saying the same thing. I'm not saying you have to get a WR or RB necessarily, just talent in general. Those just happened to be the positions I pointed out because I feel we are weakest at those positions. Also, I don't believe the addition of talent HAS to come in the draft, just as long as it's there to help the QB, be it from free agency, trade, or the draft and be it RG, RT, WR, RB, or TE. I point out Marshall because he had the talent to help a young QB, not because of his draft position.

I also agee with Brown Leader that "a talented QB is a talented QB regardless of what's around him", however, there are plenty of talented guys that never pan out. There are plenty of guys that have as much or more talent than Rivers that never worked out for a number of reasons, but I think one of the biggest reasons that gets overlooked is who he had helping him out; LT, Gates, and a solid OL. IMO, guys that become great, like Rivers, have the right combination of talent, hard work, coaching, and support on the field to get it right; and that "perfect storm" is very rare, obviously, since there are only 10-12 "franchise" guys out of the dozen that try each year.

So, I'm sorry if it sounded like I was attacking you. And I didn't mean to say that we have to draft a WR and RB in this draft. I just think if we are going to make a run at RGIII or whoever, we need to bring in a massive haul from either free agency, the draft, or both because nobody can succeed in the situation as it currently stands.

While it is essential over time to build a team around a franchise QB, a franchise QB is still the main ingredient and makes everybody around him better.

The Leinart and Russell's didn't fail because of the talent around them, they failed because they didn't put in the hard work necessary to succeed at the next level. Leinart never saw a party he didn't like and the film room was something he avoided at all costs. Russell just didn't get the idea that you can have all the skill in the world but you need to work hard on it, in order to succeed in the NFL.

Nobody is saying the Browns don't need to upgrade their talent base but when you have an opportunity to grab a franchise QB, you grab him and fill in the spaces around him later.

I'm pretty confident that Holmgren will trade up and draft RG111 no matter what the cost is and that he will make us a contender within 3 years.

keylime_5
02-24-2012, 10:54 AM
I agree. If they don't bring in a QB prior to the draft (which I kinda hope they don't do) then they probably will and should do whatever it takes to acquire Griffin. I can't imagine them not falling in love with him in interviews and workouts. He would be a much better gamble than Flynn or Tannehill.

fear the elf
02-24-2012, 10:58 AM
As long as they get him some tools to work with, I'm all for it. But if they trade away all their picks to get him and don't make moves in FA to get a good WR and RT, I think he'll suffer a fate similar to Tim Couch and David Carr.

Brown Leader
02-29-2012, 08:37 AM
Agent of Top 10 Draft Prospect Says Cleveland Browns Aren't Trying to Win (http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1084365-agent-of-top-10-draft-prospect-says-cleveland-browns-arent-trying-to-win)
An interesting piece of information came to light today, courtesy of Bleacher Report's own Matt Miller, who has been in Indianapolis for the Scouting Combine the past few days. He reported that in talking to the agent for a top-10 draft prospect, the agent revealed that he wouldn't want the Cleveland Browns to draft his charge in April.

"We don't want to go to Cleveland. Man they're not trying to win there, with that quarterback (Colt McCoy) and those draft picks last year. They ain't trying to build a winner."

Amusing. Is the top 10 really even set yet? Still..IF you believe this, (it is Bleacher) who might have said it?

Justin Blackmon - Todd France
Robert Griffin - Ben Dogra
Morris Claiborne - Bus Cook
Trent Richardson - Jimmy Sexton
Ryan Tannehill - Pat Dye jr
?

fear the elf
02-29-2012, 08:42 AM
Agent of Top 10 Draft Prospect Says Cleveland Browns Aren't Trying to Win (http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1084365-agent-of-top-10-draft-prospect-says-cleveland-browns-arent-trying-to-win)

Amusing. Is the top 10 really even set yet? Still..IF you believe this, (it is Bleacher) who might have said it?

Justin Blackmon - Todd France
Robert Griffin - Ben Dogra
Morris Claiborne - Bus Cook
Trent Richardson - Jimmy Sexton
Ryan Tannehill - Pat Dye jr
?

I'm confused by this report. First of all, which agent says things like "they ain't trying?" Second of all, what was wrong with our draft picks last year? A lot of them produced pretty well for us. Specifically the first three where on the field for a ton of plays and looked pretty decent.

I have to question either the validity of the report or the intelligence of the agent. There are reasons that I understand for not wanting to go to Cleveland, but "they ain't trying to win" isn't one of them.

Brown Leader
02-29-2012, 06:43 PM
I'm not saying I believe the report but most of those agents are from and work in the south-that's just plain speak and you here it from scouts/football execs all the time. And I assume it's referring to our offense primarily and our recent picks there. This is one of those odd kind of things that's probably true, although you're always skeptical of anything on Bleacher.

fear the elf
03-01-2012, 08:28 AM
I'm not saying I believe the report but most of those agents are from and work in the south-that's just plain speak and you here it from scouts/football execs all the time. And I assume it's referring to our offense primarily and our recent picks there. This is one of those odd kind of things that's probably true, although you're always skeptical of anything on Bleacher.

Yeah, I can buy that reasoning. I just don't think it's sound or logical by any means.

I'm actually pretty optimistic about our defense. I think if Phil and Jabaal can step up their game in their 2nd year it could be a fun unit to watch.

The offense on the other hand. I just have this awful feeling of despair when I think about it... Just looking at what we have there, I feel like we'll never be any good on that side of the ball... :,(

stlouisfan37
03-01-2012, 07:50 PM
Hi guys. I come in peace to pose a question for you.

Do you think the Browns will pull the trigger and trade up to #2 for Griffin? I'm not asking if you think they should or should not; just if you think they will, if you think it is in their nature to make such a bold move.

Thanks in advance!

Brown Leader
03-02-2012, 01:52 AM
Hi guys. I come in peace to pose a question for you.

Do you think the Browns will pull the trigger and trade up to #2 for Griffin? I'm not asking if you think they should or should not; just if you think they will, if you think it is in their nature to make such a bold move.

Thanks in advance!

If they really like him as a franchise QB and game changer, I've no doubt Heckert/Holmgren will move up and get him.

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Poz51
03-02-2012, 12:38 PM
If they really like him as a franchise QB and game changer, I've no doubt Heckert/Holmgren will move up and get him.

A 2 part question for you all... Washington makes the move up for RG3, Tannehill is taken before pick 22, and Flynn signs with Miami. What are your opinions about Osweiler in the 2nd, and how do you feel about Fletcher Cox at pick 22? I'll take your response off the post...

fear the elf
03-02-2012, 01:50 PM
A 2 part question for you all... Washington makes the move up for RG3, Tannehill is taken before pick 22, and Flynn signs with Miami. What are your opinions about Osweiler in the 2nd, and how do you feel about Fletcher Cox at pick 22? I'll take your response off the post...

I'd say, if we miss out on all the QB's, I'm not going into panic mode and taking Osweiler. I'd ride it out with Colt and make a big splash next draft. Trade whatever it takes to get Wilson or Barkley.

I would much rather make smart picks on solid players at any of WR/RB/RT/RG/WLB. I think that with with a couple of solid picks and another year of maturation of Phil Taylor, Jabaal Sheard, Joe Haden, TJ Ward, and Greg Little that this team can win 7 games even if we a forced to go with Colt.

As far as Fletcher Cox, he doesn't fit our mold of defensive linemen. My understanding of Heckert's and Dick Jauron's preference is to have both DT's be about 325-335 and utilize quick, undersized 255-265 pound DE's.

That said, Cox looks like a great player, so maybe he breaks the mold with his athleticism and size, but I doubt it.

/my $0.02

Brown Leader
03-03-2012, 09:23 AM
I'm a big fan of Osweiler so of course I'd say taking him is far from panic mode. This is a pretty good QB prospect. Sure his stock is inflated due to the position, as it is every draft, but really, late first or second doesn't matter too much. It's not like he should be a mid round pick suddenly elevated to the first round-like some are implying. There's really not much to not like about this guy. Poz, what do you think about Osweiler?

Elaborating on my other answer, trading up for Griffin for what it'll be worth seems drastic unless they're just completely enamored with him. If that's the case were getting him. But personally, I doubt it. You kind of get the impression our FO is not ready to completely give up on Colt. But at the same time, they'll want to bring in some serious competition for him. Osweiler seems perfect for that.

Cox should be long gone by 22. He's like a bigger Cullen Jenkins. I think he could play a good bit at DE in a 43 but it might be strange to have him, 300lbs, at RE and Sheard, 255+lbs at LE.

OhioJB
03-04-2012, 01:46 PM
Will try this again. Lost the text earlier. Abbreviated version, which is probably better anyway. Just some thoughts on the draft and team needs.

First team needs on offense:

QB - Get rid of Seneca and use Colt as the primary backup. Flynn may end being the best option. Although I'd be interested to know what the Browns think of Brandon Weeden. He'll be old for a rookie, but could still give a good 7 years at least. I don't know enough about him yet to say he's the QB we should draft at #22 or #37, but from the little I have seen so far he seems undervalued at this point, at least by the draftniks. RG3 would be too expensive to trade up for, and I'm not high on drafting him at #4 let alone at #2. NFL Network has a crawl at the bottom of the screen reporting the Browns are not willing to give up their two 1st round picks for him. We'll see.

RB - Reports are that Hillis probably wont be back. So we'll need to pick up another RB. Hardesty should be back stronger this year than he was last season. I could not argue against taking Richardson at #4.

WR - Probably two top flight WR's are needed. A speedster that can keep defenses honest, and a big, strong WR with sure hands. Have to believe they wont take at least one offensive weapon in the 1st round.

RT and at least one starting OG - Heard that Steinbach is not doing well due to back problems. OG Cordy Glenn would be a great addition to the o-line. Should be drafted in the 1st round so unlikely we'll get him. Pinkston and Lauvao may have to fight it out for one of the starting positions. I like Pinkston a bit better.

Defensive needs:

The defensive unit finished fairly high in a couple league wide rankings, and will be even better if they can fill some obvious holes.

CB - Brown shouldn't be starting. About a month ago Tony Rizzo mentioned on his radio show that if the draft were held then, the Browns would take Claiborne at #4, according to one of his sources within the organization. Alot of things since then have been smokescreens in my opinion. Makes you wonder if they are even interested in RG3 or if they just want people to think that. If they don't take Claiborne, Janoris Jenkins might be available at #22.

S - We need better cover safeties, at least one. The player that came over from the Saints last year may end up being ok - maybe, but Ward can't cover well enough. He's more suited for playing in the box.

OLB - Kind of obvious we need an impact pass rusher from this position. I like Nick Perry out of USC, but some are projecting him as a 3-4 OLB or a 4-3 DE. Whether we'd use him at DE or OLB, if he slides to #37, it would be a definite value pick. There may be better OLB's available at #22 if they take one there.

DE - My guess is they'll target a FA DE, if not let's hope they find one in round three or later, because I don't see them selecting a DE in their first three picks.

This team may not be as far off as some would think. Childress should light a fire under the offensive player's behinds - and it's needed. Plus, if he ends calling plays rather than Shurmur, I'm confident they'll score more points than last season, which wont be hard. I look for a whole new mindset on offense with Chili around.

Time will tell, but we may start seeing a changing of the guard in the AFC in 2012, if not then definitely in 2013. The Browns are about to start taking big leaps forward in their development as a team. Although it may not be evident in their record in 2012. I'm willing to give Holmgren and Heckert another two years before judging too harshly. Shurmur on the other hand needs to show he deserves remaining HC by his performance in 2012. Not necessarily by wins and losses, I just want to see and believe he's in charge of his team and is capable of his responsibilities. I'm not so sure he is yet.

Browns will be in the playoffs in 2013, mark my words. Slight chance they'll be there in 2012.

Poz51
03-05-2012, 11:44 AM
I'd say, if we miss out on all the QB's, I'm not going into panic mode and taking Osweiler. I'd ride it out with Colt and make a big splash next draft. Trade whatever it takes to get Wilson or Barkley.

I would much rather make smart picks on solid players at any of WR/RB/RT/RG/WLB. I think that with with a couple of solid picks and another year of maturation of Phil Taylor, Jabaal Sheard, Joe Haden, TJ Ward, and Greg Little that this team can win 7 games even if we a forced to go with Colt.

As far as Fletcher Cox, he doesn't fit our mold of defensive linemen. My understanding of Heckert's and Dick Jauron's preference is to have both DT's be about 325-335 and utilize quick, undersized 255-265 pound DE's.

That said, Cox looks like a great player, so maybe he breaks the mold with his athleticism and size, but I doubt it.

/my $0.02

I can understand sitting pat and waiting to next year, but will the franchise? Barkley and Wilson appear to be good options next year, but what happens if say Buffalo and Jacksonville fall apart next year and their QB's fall apart, pick one and two respectively... They target QB's, deciding Fitzpatrick and Gabbert are not franchise QB's... Then what?

I agree with your philosophy, of solidifying the team and building on what your have (I do like the foundation for the Browns), but without a better QB I see many 7 win type seasons for Cleveland. IMO average QB's just dont get it done, and that is what I see from Colt (fine back up IMO).

When Jauron was in Buffalo, the personnel was more -300 pounds, dont know much about Hackett. While in Buffalo, he tried the smaller Colts style players, maybe he smartened up... As for Cox I see a guy who can play end then slide inside on passing downs and rush the passer, I am sure it is just me, but I love the fit for Cleveland. If the Browns have the heavy inside mentality (which makes sense with Taylor and Rubin) and light outside on the line, then it does not make much sense, other than offering some diversity...

One quick opinion question, would you trade a first next year for Osweiler?
I appreciate the feedback!!

Poz51
03-05-2012, 12:11 PM
I'm a big fan of Osweiler so of course I'd say taking him is far from panic mode. This is a pretty good QB prospect. Sure his stock is inflated due to the position, as it is every draft, but really, late first or second doesn't matter too much. It's not like he should be a mid round pick suddenly elevated to the first round-like some are implying. There's really not much to not like about this guy. Poz, what do you think about Osweiler?

Elaborating on my other answer, trading up for Griffin for what it'll be worth seems drastic unless they're just completely enamored with him. If that's the case were getting him. But personally, I doubt it. You kind of get the impression our FO is not ready to completely give up on Colt. But at the same time, they'll want to bring in some serious competition for him. Osweiler seems perfect for that.

Cox should be long gone by 22. He's like a bigger Cullen Jenkins. I think he could play a good bit at DE in a 43 but it might be strange to have him, 300lbs, at RE and Sheard, 255+lbs at LE.

I am on the same page as you it sounds like with Osweiler, I have him rated ahead of Gabbert in terms of recent history, and like him as a late first/early second round pick. I think if he stayed in school, he would likely be a top ten type of player in next years draft, not refined, but lots of physical skill to work with, not only size wise but athleticism (lateral type movement, not Steve Young), great arm (can make every throw), good accuracy (west coast skill set IMO, but could adapt), guy stands in the pocket (Eli Manning) and delivers more than most (still has some bad tendencies throwing off his back foot) and by all accounts I have read works hard and puts in the time needed, former Basketball player who despite a limited number of starts I thought showed consistant improvement as he played, and is a guy like Nick Perry, who I think will only get better and skills are "ascending". He does stare down his receivers too much and does not have NFL caliber manipulation skills, defenses read him too easily right now. 2-3 years from now Osweiler could be a very, very good NFL QB, needs that type of seasoning IMO. Athletic Joe Flacco with a better upside? Not as good a deep thrower, but better in the short and medium passing game.

Personally I would trade up and take Griffin myself, but I think Washington is willing to pay more (personal opinion), my thoughts then turn to Osweiler in the second as competition, and eventual replacement, because I dont see Colt getting that much better, and physically I have always had concerns. My current mock has them trading for a second rounder to take him, using their next years first... Is that too much a price to pay?

If Cox falls to 22, is the value too much to pass on? IMO yes, but thats me. I think he could play end on running downs and help out the rotation while adding depth inside, and play inside on 3rd down. I think he has those type of athletic/movement skills.

Let me run this by you and ELF if he is reading...
4- Blackmon (WR)
22- Cox (DT/DE)
37 - Osemele (G/T)
Trade with Buffalo 2013 1st and a 2012 4th
41 - Osweiler

Opinions?

Brown Leader
03-05-2012, 01:22 PM
I was trying to find that 12 question draft game that STsACE posted awhile back. No luck. So I made a new one. copy/paste-answer. :0



1. If you were GM, the player you covet most for the Browns at #4, would be Michael Floyd. If you didn't trade pick #22, your first choice there would be Brock Osweiler

2. If the guy you covet most at #4 is off the board, your 2nd choice would be Trent Richardson and at #22 your second choice would be Stephen Hill

3. Who would you absolutely not want the Browns to pick at #4? Ryan Tannehill And at #22? Whitney Mercilus

4. Who do you think is the most overrated draft prospect regarded as a first rounder? Whitney Mercilus

5. Who do you think is the most underrated guy still regarded as a first round pick? Micheal Floyd

6. Which prospect will be a first round bust? Dontari Poe

7. If you had to pick one prospect, other than Andre Luck, that you see becoming a sure fire star, it would be? David DeCastro

8. Which guy not regarded as a first round pick right now do you see as becoming a future star? Stephen Hill, Brock Osweiler

9. Which projected mid to late round guy do you see as a diamond in the rough? Danny Trevathan, Trevor Guyton.

10. If you were GM, the guy you would like to sign most in free agency would be? OT Demetrius Bell And your 2nd signing would be LaRon Landry

11. If you were GM, the guy you would put on the trading block this off-season would be Colt McCoy

12. If you were GM, what's the most you'd be willing to trade to move up to #2? nothing

Brown Leader
03-05-2012, 01:47 PM
I am on the same page as you it sounds like with Osweiler, I have him rated ahead of Gabbert in terms of recent history, and like him as a late first/early second round pick. I think if he stayed in school, he would likely be a top ten type of player in next years draft, not refined, but lots of physical skill to work with, not only size wise but athleticism (lateral type movement, not Steve Young), great arm (can make every throw), good accuracy (west coast skill set IMO, but could adapt), guy stands in the pocket (Eli Manning) and delivers more than most (still has some bad tendencies throwing off his back foot) and by all accounts I have read works hard and puts in the time needed, former Basketball player who despite a limited number of starts I thought showed consistant improvement as he played, and is a guy like Nick Perry, who I think will only get better and skills are "ascending". He does stare down his receivers too much and does not have NFL caliber manipulation skills, defenses read him too easily right now. 2-3 years from now Osweiler could be a very, very good NFL QB, needs that type of seasoning IMO. Athletic Joe Flacco with a better upside? Not as good a deep thrower, but better in the short and medium passing game.

Personally I would trade up and take Griffin myself, but I think Washington is willing to pay more (personal opinion), my thoughts then turn to Osweiler in the second as competition, and eventual replacement, because I dont see Colt getting that much better, and physically I have always had concerns. My current mock has them trading for a second rounder to take him, using their next years first... Is that too much a price to pay?

If Cox falls to 22, is the value too much to pass on? IMO yes, but thats me. I think he could play end on running downs and help out the rotation while adding depth inside, and play inside on 3rd down. I think he has those type of athletic/movement skills.

Let me run this by you and ELF if he is reading...
4- Blackmon (WR)
22- Cox (DT/DE)
37 - Osemele (G/T)
Trade with Buffalo 2013 1st and a 2012 4th
41 - Osweiler

Opinions?

Well....I doubt FTE would approve. :) I wouldn't be upset at all if it went the way you've proposed, but.... I think we could find a decent Olineman in the 3rd or 4th rather than stick to Osemele over a QB. I'm not sure how great the need is at OT-OG that at #37, we wouldn't just take the QB right there. Guys like Tony Bergstrom-Jeff Allen-Lucas Nix-Marcel Jones-Bobby Massie(you prompted me to look twice at him) all are pretty good options imo later.

Osemele I think could play RT but I'd feel much more comfortable with him inside, and even then, I think he'd take a minute or two to get comfortable with playing at the pro level. He's reminding me a little too much of Anthony Davis, who I liked a lot coming out, but now is struggling mightily.

Plus I'm convinced Osweiler is going to be a first round pick. Pretty much hangs on how everyone rates his pro day though and then private workouts. But early reports are that he interviewed well at the combine.

Cox is a guy I like a lot, and I agree, if by some way he's still on the board, the value is too great and we would have to take him. Unless...we feel Osweiler or another QB we like-assuming we don't get one at #4-won't be there in the 2nd round. Rumors are that Denver was impressed with Osweiler's interview in Indy.

initial_flo
03-06-2012, 06:32 PM
I will quit being a fan of the Browns for the foreseeable future is the draft pans out like Scotts latest mock draft.......

4. Richardson
22. Kendall Wright (which I wouldnt be opposed to)
37. Kirk Cousins (yea that Kirk Cousins)

:(

fear the elf
03-07-2012, 01:38 PM
Well....I doubt FTE would approve. :)

LOL. Yeah, I'm not big on giving up a future 1st for Osweiler. I'm just not a fan of QB's that need to a lot of development. I'd take a guy with less physical tools who understands NFL offenses over the big, athletic guys 10 times out of 10.

I'm all about building a talented offense first, then trading away multiple picks for a top QB next year. That's just how I'd prefer to do it.

I do like the rest of your draft though.

In my "perfect" world (if we can't get RG3 at a reasonable price), I'd like something like:

1.4 :: Richardson
1.22 :: Floyd/Wright
2.5 :: Osemele

fear the elf
03-07-2012, 02:12 PM
Good call BL! I'm a fan of these...

1. If you were GM, the player you covet most for the Browns at #4, would be RGIII (without a trade-up).

If you didn't trade pick #22, your first choice there would be Michael Floyd.

2. If the guy you covet most at #4 is off the board, your 2nd choice would be Trent Richardson ...

and at #22 your second choice would be Kendall Wright .

3. Who would you absolutely not want the Browns to pick at #4? Tannehill or Coples, among others.

And at #22? Tannehill, Osweiler, Janoris Jenkins, Devon Still, Cordy Glenn, and Jonathon Martin.

4. Who do you think is the most overrated draft prospect regarded as a first rounder? RGIII (although, he's still very, very good).

5. Who do you think is the most underrated guy still regarded as a first round pick? Luke Kuechly.

6. Which prospect will be a first round bust? Janoris Jenkins.

7. If you had to pick one prospect, other than Andrew Luck, that you see becoming a sure fire star, it would be? David DeCastro.

8. Which guy not regarded as a first round pick right now do you see as becoming a future star? Bruce Irvin.

9. Which projected mid to late round guy do you see as a diamond in the rough? Eric Page.

10. If you were GM, the guy you would like to sign most in free agency would be? Carl Nicks.

And your 2nd signing would be Ben Grubbs or Brandon Carr.

11. If you were GM, the guy you would put on the trading block this off-season would be Steinbach :(.

12. If you were GM, what's the most you'd be willing to trade to move up to #2? A second round and late round pick.

twiz
03-08-2012, 11:13 PM
(this is all being said without looking through the thread first because I'm a lazy ***)

For the first two rounds, I'd like to throw out what I'd like to see.

Of course, I think most people are good with trading both firsts and a couple late rounders from this and next years draft (this is according to what John Clayton has said he believes the trade value would be to get the #2 pick) and secure RG3. Then in the 2nd get a WR to help out. I think that would be the most important part after getting RG3 is throwing in another weapon, then working on getting defense and a RT/RG later on.

If, however, the Browns can't get RG3, I'd like to reiterate how I'm against taking Richardson at 4. It's not good value, and they can get a RB that fits what they like in the 2nd or even 3rd and have success with him. I'm for going with Blackmon (I think his potential is being downplayed by most people. He's a gamer with excellent talent) or Claiborne. (Claiborne + Haden = Come at me, bro) I don't think any other pick is worth it there. With the other first, I'd like to see either a WR if Blackmon was not taken, or pretty much the BPA. DE, OT, WLB, CB, even FS, there's some needs that 22nd overall pick can help fill. Then in the second, look at BPA again. Probably a RB unless the value isn't there. I'd like to, ideally, come out of the first three rounds (if the Browns keep both firsts) with a WR, RB, OT and someone to help on D.

twiz
03-08-2012, 11:26 PM
Yay I'll join in!


1. If you were GM, the player you covet most for the Browns at #4, would be Justin Blackmon If you didn't trade pick #22, your first choice there would be Mike Adams

2. If the guy you covet most at #4 is off the board, your 2nd choice would be Morris Claiborne and at #22 your second choice would be Stephen Hill

3. Who would you absolutely not want the Browns to pick at #4? Ryan Tannehill And at #22? Ryan Tannehill

4. Who do you think is the most overrated draft prospect regarded as a first rounder? Ryan Tannehill(is this getting through yet?)

5. Who do you think is the most underrated guy still regarded as a first round pick? Jerel Worthy

6. Which prospect will be a first round bust? Ryan Tannehill (is this thing on?)

7. If you had to pick one prospect, other than Andre Luck, that you see becoming a sure fire star, it would be? Matt Kalil

8. Which guy not regarded as a first round pick right now do you see as becoming a future star? Jared Crick

9. Which projected mid to late round guy do you see as a diamond in the rough? Dan Herron, LaVonn Brazill

10. If you were GM, the guy you would like to sign most in free agency would be? Peyton Man... fine... Vincent Jackson And your 2nd signing would be BenJarvus Green-Ellis

11. If you were GM, the guy you would put on the trading block this off-season would be Colt McCoy

12. If you were GM, what's the most you'd be willing to trade to move up to #2? Both firsts, couple late rounders

Iamcanadian
03-10-2012, 09:35 AM
Well, it is now down to Flynn or Tannehill at #4, Miami is the odds on favourite to get Flynn so I won't be at all shocked if we reach for Tannehill.

There were 2 super studs available at QB this year, Luck and RG111, perhaps the best QB prospects of the last 25 years and we just weren't willing to pay thje price so we have to settle for the scarps. Just typical of the Cleveland organization and the reason why we have stunk since coming back into the league. We could be looking at 4 -10 more years of mediocrity.

twiz
03-10-2012, 09:41 AM
Well, it is now down to Flynn or Tannehill at #4, Miami is the odds on favourite to get Flynn so I won't be at all shocked if we reach for Tannehill.

There were 2 super studs available at QB this year, Luck and RG111, perhaps the best QB prospects of the last 25 years and we just weren't willing to pay thje price so we have to settle for the scarps. Just typical of the Cleveland organization and the reason why we have stunk since coming back into the league. We could be looking at 4 -10 more years of mediocrity.

If Cleveland drafts Tannehill, it certainly wont help that mediocrity issue. Just move forward for one more season with Colt. Or give everyone in Cleveland a sportsgasm by signing Peyton. Yep. I totally expect this to happen. No sarcasm at all. None. Whatsoever.

...yep.

initial_flo
03-10-2012, 08:46 PM
Now that Robert griffin is off the board, I would stay with Colt McCoy. Thats not to say that I am a fan, I personally think hes a scrub.

But Id rather stay with him until we can lock in a player with franchise potential. Why bring in quite possibly the next middle of the road QB, all the mean time trying to talk ourselves into to him being the guy. Why waste more time and energy on Matt Flynn praying for him to be the guy just like we did on Colt McCoy to this point?

May as well focus on drafting (or god forbid finding free agent) difference makers and playmakers so that when we do go after a QB worth going for theres actually a good football team someone would actually want to play on.

hopefully they spare us on Tannehill and which ever other project rookie QB there is available. The talent environment is not exactly conducive to success for an Osweiler or Tannehill anyway.

Iamcanadian
03-10-2012, 11:02 PM
Unfortunately, GM's keep their jobs for 3 reasons.
1) they fill the stadium,
2) they please their owner and
3) they compete for the playoffs with a real chance to win a Super Bowl

Drafting Tannehill may seem foolish to us but if Holmgren thinks he has any chance at all of succeeding, he could easily be the pick.

The interest in a rookie QB tends to give hope to the fan base and keeps the customers coming for at least another 3 years.

Our beloved owner:grrrrrr: may want a QB now to keep his stadium filled.

The beauty of drafting a QB is that you really don't know whether he will succeed or not and you won't be sure either way for perhaps 3 years, so Holmgren and Heckert(sp.) get to keep their jobs for that period before the results are in.

So I warn you, don't be shocked if Holmgren drafts Tannehill just like Tennessee's GM drafted Locker, Jacksonville's GM drafted Gabbert and Minnesota's GM drafted Ponder.

keylime_5
03-11-2012, 09:18 PM
IMO if they stay at 4 they won't draft Tannehill. The risk is too big, they would trade down and get him. If they couldn't trade down I think they would pick a non-QB player, probably Claiborne though Richardson and Blackmon are options. People around the NFL seem to agree Tanny would be a reach at 8 or 12 - but they expect him to go top ten just like Locker and Gabbert simply b/c of his upside and position. 4 would be too much of a reach just like no QB needy teams reached that high for Locker and co. last year.

If they don't get Flynn (some reason I sense they won't try that hard to get him unless there isn't a big market for him), then I expect them to either try to move down and get Tannehill, or get Weeden (who they seem to really like a lot despite his age) in round two or there-abouts.

Taking Tannehill at 4 would likely be a disaster. Huge bust potential and you pass up some all-pro types to take him. Odds are he is either mediocre or a complete bust. Odds that he is a top 15 type franchise QB are very low simply b/c of his inexperience. A guy like that usually develops into a starter if he doesn't have the expectations of a top 10 pick. A midrounder who is expected to be a backup (like Matt Schaub or Matt Hasselbeck or Matt Flynn) that develops off the radar is how guys like that succeed. I don't think he'll be given that kind of patience due to where he'll be taken.

Now if we trade down and take Tannehill I could live with that. Getting him around pick 10 overall (give or take) wouldn't be so bad if we picked up an extra pick or two - say a 2nd rounder or something like that. Having 2 seconds and 2 firsts this year to fall back on in our teams' overall development would ease the blow if Tannehill busts.

Brown Leader
03-11-2012, 11:02 PM
I'm about 85% convinced it's going to be Richardson.

keylime_5
03-12-2012, 11:10 AM
really? I think he's the least likely of the candidates to be our pick, especially if we sign a free agent runningback (which is almost a foregone conclusion - if not Hillis then someone similar). I think Claiborne is the favorite even though he's not an offensive player.

twiz
03-12-2012, 03:12 PM
BenJarvus Green-Ellis in a Browns jersey...

A guy can dream... I'd like Michael Bush a lot too. Still dreaming with that one too, I bet. Even Mike Tolbert feels like a dream.

I made myself sad.

initial_flo
03-12-2012, 05:15 PM
Id either pick 1 RB, in the round 2-4 range if you keeping hillis.

or

Pick 2 RBs, in the round 2-5 range if not.

No reason to waste FA money on players with miles on them already imo.

twiz
03-12-2012, 09:57 PM
Id either pick 1 RB, in the round 2-4 range if you keeping hillis.

or

Pick 2 RBs, in the round 2-5 range if not.

No reason to waste FA money on players with miles on them already imo.

One is enough in both draft and FA. I think the team still likes Hardesty, so might as well only go after one RB. Plus, all three of those RB's I listed only have four seasons in the league.

keylime_5
03-12-2012, 10:05 PM
I'll take Pead ~round 3 or Hillman wherever to add speed to our backfield. It's not time to give up Hardesty yet. He's been injured a lot, but let's hope those days are behind him and he can put it together next season. Last year he was just coming off of ACL surgery so he gets a pass. I think 2012 is make of break for him. RBs are definitely better off for you to take later in the draft instead of round one.

Brown Leader
03-13-2012, 04:36 PM
really? I think he's the least likely of the candidates to be our pick, especially if we sign a free agent runningback (which is almost a foregone conclusion - if not Hillis then someone similar). I think Claiborne is the favorite even though he's not an offensive player.

meh, I change my mind every day. Actually I took another look at Doug Martin, and LOVE him. I like the value better of taking him later rather than Trent top 5. for now..

keylime_5
03-13-2012, 06:36 PM
I love the second round backs this year. At least two of Miller, Wilson, and Martin (if they stay healthy) will be pro bowl quality backs in the NFL. Pead is going to be a heck of a return man/3rd down back too.

Iamcanadian
03-16-2012, 10:07 PM
I love the second round backs this year. At least two of Miller, Wilson, and Martin (if they stay healthy) will be pro bowl quality backs in the NFL. Pead is going to be a heck of a return man/3rd down back too.

Unfortunately, I can see 3 RB's going in round 1. Yes, teams like to wait but sometimes the draft works against you and a run can start where every team needing a RB suddenly starts seeing them drafted and feels it cannot wait till round 2.

I won't be shocked to see at least 3 go in round 1. Just because people think you can get a good one late in the draft doesn't mean they are any easier to find and the top ones still are seen as the safest bet.

keylime_5
03-17-2012, 10:34 AM
Maybe......but backs tend to drop on draft day while defensive linemen, offensive linemen, and quarterbacks all shoot way up in the draft. Either way, I expect Wilson, Miller, and Martin to be available at 37 - at worst 2 of those guys will be there. Runninbacks with first round grades tend to fall to the 2nd round a lot more than backs with 2nd round grades (like those three) tend to find their way into the first.

Iamcanadian
03-17-2012, 02:36 PM
To be honest, I haven't a clue about which direction the team is headed in the draft. IMO, it has to be offense and more offense but you never know.

keylime_5
03-18-2012, 12:50 PM
yeah. before we lost out on the Griffin sweepstakes and I found out that we had no interest in Matt Flynn and when we thought that we would resign Hillis or at least bring in a similar talent to replace him in free agency, I figured we could afford to take the BPA in Mo Claiborne and then go offense with the other high picks. Now that we are keeping Colt McCoy as our starter it sounds like, we lost Hillis, we cut Steinbach, we cut Pashos, we didn't sign anybody on offense at all (compared to a couple defensive guys we brought in and re-signed).....I think it's clear that we MUST draft RBs/WRs/OL with our top picks this year....

Richardson/Blackmon at 4 (though Claiborne is still very much in play - and they might want Tannehill even)

Wright/Floyd/Mike Adams/Cordy Glenn at 22

David Wilson/Lamar Miller/Doug Martin (a RB), or Stephen Hill/Reuben Randle/Alshon Jeffery (a WR), or Amini Silatolu/Kevin Zeitler/etc. (an OL) at #37. Weeden might be an option here but I hope we don't waste a pick on him.


Right now I'm hoping for one of these two scenarios:

4-Richardson
22-Wright/Floyd
37-best OL available

OR

4-Blackmon
22-Adams
37-Wilson/Miller/Martin

though I could also live with

4-Richardson
22-Adams
37-Randle/Jeffery/Hill (best WR available)

Iamcanadian
03-19-2012, 06:48 AM
I'm glad you can come up with scenarios, because I am at a loss for ideas. This off season has put some real doubts in my mind about Holmgren's ability to be a decision maker and put in place a sound plan for our future.

He failed in his pursuit of RG111 when he had better picks to offer than Washington, he made little effort to sign Flynn so I'm assuming he had no backup plan in case he didn't get St. Louis's 1st round pick.

We have signed nobody in FA, we haven't even retained a # of starters with no replacements in sight.

Your second option looks the best to me although I won't be shocked if we reach for Tannehill at #4.

St. Louis looks to be substantially improving, Washington has their franchise QB, Minny is getting a great LT, Tampa Bay with excellent FA signings is already a far better team than last year even before they draft, then there is Cleveland which has sat pat, has no franchise QB, and made no attempt that I can see to improve from last year's team.

This is going from bad to worse and it is Holmgren's 3rd year on the job.

keylime_5
03-19-2012, 05:06 PM
it will all look better once we finally find the franchise QB. That is easier said than done, they tend to not get past the top of the draft. So far one has not fallen into our laps.

As far as the rest of the roster we have gotten significantly younger and more talented on the defensive side of the ball. Under Savage/Crennel and Mangini we seemed to get older and older and ignored drafting players on that side of the ball - instead using our top draft picks on Braylon Edwards, Joe Thomas, Brady Quinn, and Alex Mack. They were content with building that side of the ball in free agency (Eric Barton, David Bowens, Shaun Rogers, Corey Williams, Gary Baxter, Mike Adams, Abram Elam, Kenyon Coleman, Scott Fujita, etc.). Now we have some solid pieces in place there that are young: Joe Haden, TJ Ward, Jabaal Sheard, Ahtyba Rubin, Phil Taylor, plus D'Qwell Jackson and Chris Gocong who are both in their prime.

Now it is time that we started filling up with offensive talent. We only have Thomas, Mack, and Little on that side of the ball. If we can get a good RB, WR, and OL at the top of this draft then we'll be off to a good start. Hopefully we get a QB next year since the only decent option this year was trading up for Griffin. Since that failed I have no problem with passing on guys like Matt Flynn, Ryan Tannehill, and Brandon Weeden who will likely flake out and not be the great franchise QB that we need. Hopefully one of Barkley, Wilson, Jones, and Bray will be good enough to be worth top 10 picks for one, will be available when we pick next year for two, and for three will not suck like Brady Quinn once we draft them.

Looking at this season though and the building blocks for the future, I am hoping we have these young starters going into this year:

QB-
RB-
FB-Owen Marecic
WR-
WR-Greg Little
TE-
LT-Joe Thomas
LG-(Jason Pinkston? Shawn Lauvao?)
C-Alex Mack
RG-
RT-

LE-Jabaal Sheard
LT-Phil Taylor
RT-Ahtyba Rubin
RE-
SLB-Chris Gocong
MLB-D'Qwell Jackson
WLB-
LCB-Joe Haden
SS-TJ Ward
FS-
RCB-

and after the draft I expect 3 or 4 more young pieces in place to add to what we already have - probably at RB, WR, OL, and maybe even CB. Like I said the future of the roster looks bright except for at QB. We'll need some luck in that department. Holmgren and Heckert are building this team the right way with draft picks so that this team can be sustained for longevity like the Packers, Colts, Ravens, Chargers, and Steelers have done to build their squads.

twiz
03-19-2012, 09:57 PM
The OL is a big concern right now. Besides Mack and Thomas I have no idea what's going on. I think the D is mostly set. I'll be interested in FS and WLB.

twiz
03-20-2012, 12:03 PM
You know, the deeper we get into the offseason, the more I think it's looking like this with the Browns 4th overall:

1. Trade back
2. Blackmon

I can't see Richardson with the injury concern. I think they're comfortable going with Haden and Patterson at CB (though I can't completely dismiss Claiborne. He's that talented), and I think the darkhorse DE spot with Coples is out with the signings of Rucker and Parker (plus I think there are too many questions on Coples too). So I can see Blackmon being a fallback option if they can't trade back for more picks. I'm just not sure who you're trading back in the draft for. Floyd? Martin? Richardson at a later pick? Just hope it's not Tannehill...

keylime_5
03-20-2012, 01:35 PM
The thing about Blackmon is that he is a top 10 prospect but he isn't one of the elite prospects in this draft. The top guys are clearly Luck, Griffin, Kalil, Claiborne, and Richardson. To take Blackmon or Tannehill over those guys means that we reached for need, and Heckert isn't gonna stray from his draft board.

I wouldn't be very happy if we took Tannehill that high, but taking him isn't as bad as it sounds. It proves that we are devoted to upgrading the QB position and spending quality picks on potential franchise QBs is a move you can commend even if they bust just b/c you absolutely have to have one and we haven't had one since the return. He is a good prospect in his own right too, he's just a lot like Jake Locker in that he is extremely raw and has huge bust potential, but his upside is tremendous and he profiles to be at least an average starting QB whose tools suit him perfectly for the WCO.

If I were a betting man I'd say Richardson at #4 is most likely, followed by Claiborne. I think that them targeting Tannehill is very possible too, whether they trade down or not.

ArtModel
03-20-2012, 07:03 PM
Holmgren's strength is in his coaching, not his evaluation of talent. His draft record from 99-08 1st rounders:

Lamar King
Shaun Alexander
Chris McIntosh
Koren Robinson
Steve Hutchinson
Jerramy Stevens
Marcus Trufant
Marcus Tubbs
Chris Spencer
Kelly Jennings
Lawrence Jackson

Alexander and Hutchinson, great picks esp. the latter. The rest? At least we will be picking high again next spring...

Brown Leader
03-21-2012, 10:31 AM
Holmgren's strength is in his coaching, not his evaluation of talent. His draft record from 99-08 1st rounders:

Lamar King
Shaun Alexander
Chris McIntosh
Koren Robinson
Steve Hutchinson
Jerramy Stevens
Marcus Trufant
Marcus Tubbs
Chris Spencer
Kelly Jennings
Lawrence Jackson

Alexander and Hutchinson, great picks esp. the latter. The rest? At least we will be picking high again next spring...

That's why Tom Heckert is in charge of the draft.

Brown Leader
03-21-2012, 10:47 PM
Few scenarios I'd be OK with.

#4 a.Blackmon or b.Richardson. Browns were last in the league in plays over 2Oyds. Offensive help is the first priority...after QB. Tannehill at #4 would truely be a massive reach. I don't think they've got the brass for that. Claiborne is overrated.

#22. a.Doug Martin or b.Stephen Hill/Kendall Wright. If Tannehill is on the board it's going to be hard to pass him but I'd prefer to look at a QB in the 2nd or 3rd. And I definitely think we have to look at a QB early. Someone on the other board mentioned sticking with McCoy and going with Wallace if he stumbles but I think they need/will get serious competition at this spot this year. It's too important to put off.

#37. a.OT Mitchell Schwartz/Bobby Massie or b.Vinny Curry (or c.Brock Osweiler if his stock rises after his pro day.) There's actually a bunch of guys I like here and wouldn't be upset if we took any of them. Amini Salatolu/Ronnell Lewis/Dwayne Allen/Mychal Kendricks

It's possible to maby get Martin or David Wilson at #37 so a OT like Adams might also be a solid pick at #22. If we somehow pass on Tannehill at #22 and he's still there late into the first I'd expect we use our #37 to move back up. I'm not thrilled at that but... If the rumored trade for Griffin is true it's clear the FO is not satisfied with McCoy. The only way we don't make a move on a QB fairly early is if they already rated the 2013 QB class through the roof.

villagewarrior
03-23-2012, 01:38 PM
In a mock I'm writing I have the Browns taking Trent Richardson and Michael Floyd in the first round. Are Browns fans happy with this or would you rather Cleveland go after a lineman at 22?

keylime_5
03-23-2012, 02:58 PM
I think we'd all be thrilled if Michael Floyd fell to us at 22. That's possibly the best case scenario right there.

keylime_5
03-23-2012, 02:58 PM
Holmgren's strength is in his coaching, not his evaluation of talent. His draft record from 99-08 1st rounders:

Lamar King
Shaun Alexander
Chris McIntosh
Koren Robinson
Steve Hutchinson
Jerramy Stevens
Marcus Trufant
Marcus Tubbs
Chris Spencer
Kelly Jennings
Lawrence Jackson

Alexander and Hutchinson, great picks esp. the latter. The rest? At least we will be picking high again next spring...

not relevelant, troll.......Tom Heckert is our GM and he picks the players.

twiz
03-23-2012, 03:04 PM
In a mock I'm writing I have the Browns taking Trent Richardson and Michael Floyd in the first round. Are Browns fans happy with this or would you rather Cleveland go after a lineman at 22?

I can't explain how happy I'd be.

twiz
03-23-2012, 03:06 PM
Ok, so to revise a post I made before, I'm thinking it's this situation now:

1. Trade back
2. Richardson
3. Blackmon

The Browns haven't even talked to a RB in FA (that I remember). They're either extremely comfortable with Hardesty, or they can't wait to add Richardson. I'd lean more towards the latter. But if it's the former, as of now I'd think the 4th pick would be Blackmon over Claiborne.

ArtModel
03-23-2012, 06:02 PM
not relevelant, troll.......Tom Heckert is our GM and he picks the players.

If Holmgren has no say in the draft then why was he the one in the press conference saying that the offer we made St. Louis was "every bit the offer" that Washington made? Why is he going to "kind of discourage" Heckert from trading out of #4? If you think that Holmgren is not running the show (into the groud) then you have been drinking up that Cuyahoga River water.

http://www.mockingthedraft.com/2012/3/15/2874975/mike-holmgren-defends-cleveland-browns-attempt-at-trading-for-no-2

initial_flo
03-23-2012, 08:01 PM
Its almost to the point, where I dont really care which of these players they take at 4:

Blackmon, Richardson, even Kalil or Claiborne.

Everyone one of these players are the elite of this class and would provide a 0-100 upgrade instantly.



Where the Browns really need to do the damage is at 22 and 37. They can so easily mess those up and set back the franchise again especially since we took no FAs of note. Were putting a lot of eggs in this years draft basket.

twiz
03-23-2012, 10:43 PM
If Holmgren has no say in the draft then why was he the one in the press conference saying that the offer we made St. Louis was "every bit the offer" that Washington made? Why is he going to "kind of discourage" Heckert from trading out of #4? If you think that Holmgren is not running the show (into the groud) then you have been drinking up that Cuyahoga River water.

http://www.mockingthedraft.com/2012/3/15/2874975/mike-holmgren-defends-cleveland-browns-attempt-at-trading-for-no-2

Who is this? A bored Stealers fan?

Brown Leader
03-26-2012, 03:23 PM
If Holmgren has no say in the draft then why was he the one in the press conference saying that the offer we made St. Louis was "every bit the offer" that Washington made? Why is he going to "kind of discourage" Heckert from trading out of #4? If you think that Holmgren is not running the show (into the groud) then you have been drinking up that Cuyahoga River water.

http://www.mockingthedraft.com/2012/3/15/2874975/mike-holmgren-defends-cleveland-browns-attempt-at-trading-for-no-2

Of course he has say. That's why Colt McCoy is a Brown. But your first post suggested it's all him; obviously it's not.

keylime_5
03-26-2012, 10:18 PM
He has input, but he is not the guy who runs the draft. He runs the organization, but Heckert is the guy in charge of drafting players and filling the roster. Don't feed the troll anymore.

A.Zajac
03-27-2012, 10:17 AM
After listening to Tom Heckert the past few days.. I've drawn the following conclusions:

1. They seem content on giving Colt McCoy one more year. They've re-irritated this over and over. That said, I still believe they draft a QB... but not early.

2. They will draft offense early and often. Heckhart made a few comments about M. Claiborne about while it would be difficult to pass on him, he doesn't see them drafting defense there.

3. With those two comments in mind, I believe it's fair enough to rule out Tannehill and Claiborne at 4. Assuming the Vikings pick Kalil at 3, I believe the decision ultimately comes down to Richardson or Blackmon. If the Vikings throw a monkey wrench into the fire and draft someone other than Kalil, then it could get more interesting.

4. Pat Shurmer said the teams to draft a RT who can start immediately in 2012. To me, this says they either spend their second first round pick on one or their second round pick. This may also depend on who they draft at 4. For instance, if they draft Richardson, it's PLAUSIBLE they would go with Kendall Wright and then elect to draft a tackle in round two. If the Browns decided to draft Blackmon, I believe they'd spend their second first round pick on a tackle, someone like Mike Adams, and spend their second round pick on David Wilson if he's available.

Brown Leader
03-27-2012, 04:07 PM
Agreed. He's also mentioned the possibly of trading down more then once. An off the radar guy they could be looking at if a trade down occurs is David DeCastro. I read reports out of his pro day that some teams think he can play RT. At 6'5 315 it's not out of the question. I think I'd take him over Reiff for that spot.

The 5 guys Heckert said they like. guesses?

Blackmon
Richardson
Floyd
DeCastro
Reiff

keylime_5
03-27-2012, 05:31 PM
I can't remember if Heckert said those five included the two QBs or not. If they did then obviously those 5 guys are Luck, Griffin, Kalil, Claiborne, and Richardson.........if they don't include the QBs I'd guess the 5 are Kalil, Claiborne, Richardson, and Blackmon for sure. The fifth probably being Coples, Reiff, Martin, Floyd, Tannehill, or someone like that.


My latest mock draft has us going

#4-Trent Richardson-RB
#22-Kendall Wright-WR
#37-Bobby Massie-RT

I think that would be a fantastic start to our draft. I would dig Mike Adams, Jonathan Martin, or Cordy Glenn at 22. Claiborne or Blackmon at 4 are the only other guys I would consider besides Richardson. Maybe we can trade down and still get one of those guys even. If they don't draft a WR in round one then they HAVE to draft either Randle, Hill, or Jeffery at 37.

Also, having 10 more picks after the first two rounds is exciting!

initial_flo
03-27-2012, 06:14 PM
They have to stay in the top 6, another move outside of the elite class of players I feel would be absolutely indefensible. Especially since there is no crazy rookie scale.

Turning top 6 picks into Alex Macks, Phil Taylors and Reilly Reiffs is not taking us to the promise land.

I think heckerts the top 5 is:
Kalil
Claiborne
Richardson
Blackmon

Am I the only one who would honestly be truly surprised if they took Blackmon? It doesn't seem like its the style of the current Browns to take a flashy impact player that may be a single grade point lower then the others prospects on the board.

A.Zajac
03-27-2012, 07:01 PM
They have to stay in the top 6, another move outside of the elite class of players I feel would be absolutely indefensible. Especially since there is no crazy rookie scale.

Turning top 6 picks into Alex Macks, Phil Taylors and Reilly Reiffs is not taking us to the promise land.

I think heckerts the top 5 is:
Kalil
Claiborne
Richardson
Blackmon

Am I the only one who would honestly be truly surprised if they took Blackmon? It doesn't seem like its the style of the current Browns to take a flashy impact player that may be a single grade point lower then the others prospects on the board.

If the draft were today, my feeling would be they'd take Richardson. That said, the draft is still a little ways off.

mdmgrand
04-01-2012, 08:24 PM
4) Trent Richardson RB - With the offense lacking talent, they need to pick BPA on offense with their first three picks. Richardson reminds me of Jonathan Stewart, in the ways that they are built like a tank and have enough speed to break out the long runs. Richardson seems to run harder on a more consistent basis than most backs. I would be thrilled to have him as a back for the next six to eight years. He may last even longer considering his excellent build.

22) Stephen Hill WR - Not only is he Big and Fast, but he also played in a Run First (and always) offense, and he has a strong grade for blocking... Athleticism has always been there, considering he could have developed into a Olympic Long Jumper (25-8 3/4 in High School, would have placed 9th in Beijing).

37) Zebrie Sanders OT - Talented and experienced Tackle who could start from day one at the RT position.

keylime_5
04-02-2012, 10:10 AM
I don't mind TRich at 4. Hill would be a reach at 22 IMO, and Sanders an absolute reach at 37. I think if we go RT at 37 it will be Massie. I think at 22 if Wright and Floyd are gone then we are more likely to take a RT there than a WR.

mdmgrand
04-02-2012, 06:04 PM
It is debatable between whether those two are reaches... I've seen Hill mocked from 20 to 60, and I just saw a few Mocks with Sanders going in the mid 20's (which definitely is a reach) or early second round (right where I have him)...

I initially had Massie in that spot last month, and to be honest, I wouldn't mind him either.

I am still hoping for Hill with the 22nd.

Brown Leader
04-03-2012, 02:24 PM
Well, we know our RB coach Gary Brown won't be teaching guys about leverage.

AnTw-iFvi7s

Thing is, he was almost knocked down again when they ran it a second time. And the drills were conducted by the Bengals coaches who looked much more capable then Mr. Brown, who looked more like a scout or bystander. I guess you chalk it up to inexperience since he's only been pro coaching for 3 seasons.

kalbears13
04-03-2012, 11:58 PM
Well, we know our RB coach Gary Brown won't be teaching guys about leverage.

AnTw-iFvi7s

Thing is, he was almost knocked down again when they ran it a second time. And the drills were conducted by the Bengals coaches who looked much more capable then Mr. Brown, who looked more like a scout or bystander. I guess you chalk it up to inexperience since he's only been pro coaching for 3 seasons.

Your first step is usually your most explosive so it makes sense.

descendency
04-05-2012, 03:44 PM
If somehow Tannehill becomes a hot commodity and someone trades up to 3 to get him, are the Browns interested in Kalil to play RT (or move Thomas to RT and play Kalil at LT)? Is the 4th overall pick worth a RT?

mcdlaxbonz13
04-05-2012, 06:47 PM
If somehow Tannehill becomes a hot commodity and someone trades up to 3 to get him, are the Browns interested in Kalil to play RT (or move Thomas to RT and play Kalil at LT)? Is the 4th overall pick worth a RT?

I could see them using it as leverage to trade down with someone, but if they did draft him it wouldn't make sense to move joe thomas from the LT spot in my opinion, that job is his for a long time

bigbuc
04-06-2012, 01:35 PM
I was thinking about your draft and I think the best thing for you guys to do is

At 4 Blackmon
At 22 Kendall Weight
At 37 Doug Martin

You would have Blackmon, Little, Wright.... Moore and Watson... Hardesty and Martin.

Not bad!

mdmgrand
04-06-2012, 08:39 PM
The Cleveland Browns need TALENT at nearly every position on the field and really cannot go wrong in the 2012 NFL Draft if they simply pick a good mix of players with game changing potential at skill positions and steady, hard working players at all other positions. Ah, if it was only this simple. Here is my entire mock, and I realize trades will happen, but I sat and contemplated multiple scenarios with Pick 4 and Pick 22, which alter the entire draft for the Browns.

Round 1, Pick 4) Morris Claiborne CB, LSU
- The thought behind this first pick has to be BPA, mixing the value of positions involved as well. Claiborne and Haden would be an amazing duo in the secondary, and in a passing league, you cannot have enough talented CB's, and they do not come very often. Great Pick, partly a Luxury, but we must add elite talent to a position that cannot be filled later.
Need Grade - C, Talent Grade - A

Round 1, Pick 22) Stephen Hill WR, Georgia Tech
- I believe Hill would be a tremendous addition to the Browns at the Pick 22. He is a world class athlete (Long Jumped nearly 26 ft in high school, which would have placed him 9th at the Beijing Olympics) with 4.36 speed at 6-4. He may take a year to develop into a steady receiver, but his big-play ability will we used, as well as his skills as a blocker.
Need Grade - B+, Talent Grade - B+

Round 2, Pick 37) Bobby Massie OT, Ole Miss
- Massie will jump in a become the starter at RT and stay there for years to come. I approve of the Browns waiting until Round Two before they pick a right tackle. Even though Massie will probably never become a Pro Bowl tackle, he grades out to become a solid starter.
Need Grade - A, Talent Grade - B-

Round 3, Pick 67) LaMichael James RB, Oregon
- James will be used as a utility back and a possible punt returner. He would instantly add speed and flashy play to the backfield. He fills the need for a big play back, complimenting Hardesty's size and power. Running backs have a small shelf life and can be had in later rounds; premium picks just should not be used on them. Even though Richardson would be a flashy pick in the Top Five, I believe the Browns should stand pat and wait until Round Three to obtain a back. James may never be a full time back, due to his size and frame, but 12 carries and 3 receptions a game would allow him to be productive and stay healthy.
Need Grade - A, Talent Grade - B+

Round 4, Pick 100) Russell Wilson QB, Wisconsin
- I don't know what it is about Wilson, but I am very high on his ability to succeed in the NFL in spite of his height. Phenomenal arm strength and talent. In the Wisconsin Pro Ready offense, he posted a 33 - 4, TD to INT ratio. He also played behind a very Tall and Big offensive line, similar in size to that of NFL players. Holmgren will also see his athleticism and think back to when he selected Seneca Wallace for the Seahawks (who did/does not have the arm Wilson has). Wilson could challenge for the starting job if McCoy falters early.
Need Grade - B, Talent Grade - B-

Round 4, Pick 118) Marcus Forston DT, Miami
- Looking throughout the balance between need and talent here, there just seems to be no player in a need column that would be a quality pick at this spot. Forston has durability concerns, but he has a great first step, and elite athleticism for the DT spot. He would be a situational player for the Browns, playing primarily on passing downs.
Need Grade - D+, Talent Grade - C+

Round 5, Pick 139) Matt Reynolds OT, BYU
- Reynolds is a solid player who has 52 starts under his belt. A little older at age 25, but that allowed him to fill out his frame and spend a lot of time studying and learning. He is a strong, run blocking tackle, that I believe could be moved around the offensive line. He adds depth and could possibly play at RT or RG.
Need Grade - D+, Talent Grade - C

Round 5, Pick 160) Vontaze Burfict ILB, Arizona State
- Now Burfict may not have a great track record, great speed, and arguably maturity, but this guy has shown flashes of being a great linebacker. Using a fifth round pick on a guy with equal potential as being a starter in three years, or out of the league in three years sounds like a deal to me. Huge hitter with a mean streak. He would add physicality to the Browns defense, much like division rivals Pittsburgh and Baltimore use to their advantage. I am all for taking a chance on this kid.
Need Grade - D, Talent Grade - B

Round 6, Pick 204) Eddie Pleasant SS, Oregon
- The last time the Browns picked a safety from Oregon, it worked out very well with T.J. Ward. As an Oregon fan, I can say that I would be happy to bring Pleasant along board. Even though Ward was more well rounded and consistent, Pleasant was always around the ball. Playing as a Rover, and he used to be a full-time LB, Pleasant would be specifically used as a SS, and he has the athleticism and know how to pull of this transition.
Need Grade - D, Talent Grade - C-, Chance of Making Final Roster - 65%

Round 6, Pick 205) Kourtnei Brown DE, Clemson
- Even though, phonetically speaking, he shares the same name as the Injury-Related Bust in Browns' History, Brown has a chance to make the team as a developmental DE. At 6-5, 255 and with 4.7 speed, Brown could stick as the Browns continue to reshape into a 4-3 team.
Need Grade - C, Talent Grade - D, Chance of Making Final Roster - 50%

Round 7, Pick 211) Micah Pellerin CB, Hampton
- Decent Speed, and Good Size. There is not much more you look for in a Late Round Flyer type pick. These guys from smaller schools may not have the necessary tape on them, and with size and speed, why not?
Need Grade - D, Talent Grade - D-, Chance of Making Final Roster - 45%

Round 7, Pick 245) Bryce Brown RB, Kansas State
- Brown has had a weird college career; one in which many question his commitment to football. People want to think of him as an UDFA, but in my opinion why not draft him late with a comp pick and at least own the rights. We see this every year with running backs with red flags (personal, athletic). The scouts on NFL teams seem to over think the position and simply wait until UDFA stage (Blount TB, Foster HOU). Take a chance on a talented guy, if you must stash him on the practice squad.
Need Grade - C-, Talent Grade - C, Chance of Making Final Roster - 20%

Round 7, Pick 247) Marquis Maze WR, Alabama
- Not much to say here, take an experienced guy with physical limitations and see what happens. I actually believe he will make the final roster or practice squad due to his experience and his decent production.
Need Grade - D, talent Grade - D, Chance of Making Final Roster - 35%

OhioJB
04-07-2012, 10:09 AM
mdmgrand, the first three picks the Browns make, have the potential to make this draft. Your first three would do that. I particularly like the Massie selection in the 2nd. Claiborne and Hill would be great, but my personal preference is for Richardson at #4 and Wright at #22, although would be ok with Hill instead of Wright. Odds are though at least one of the WR's will be off the board before we use the 2nd 1st round pick.

Couple of draft thoughts:

1) Tampa Bay has been very aggressive in free agency, and I wouldn't be surprised if they over compensate to move up to #3 to get Richardson ahead of the Browns. If that happens I'm all for drafting Claiborne.

2) Brandon Weeden in my opinion is a 3rd round prospect. I don't see him ending up that much better of a QB than McCoy in the long run. Would prefer our 1st and 2nd round selections be used on other positions. I realize Weeden wont last until the 3rd round, so we'd have to forget drafting him, unless he lasts for awhile in the 2nd and the team trades back into the 2nd round to get him.

mdmgrand
04-07-2012, 10:53 AM
I just don't see the point of using a premium pick on Weeden this year. I say the Browns stock up on playmakers on both sides of the ball. Should Colt not show any progress, then pick a QB in next years first, wherever the pick may be. I believe one more years with a dynamic receiver, dynamic back, and a premium line pick would be fair.

and I also want to say that it was hard for me to have the Browns pass on Richardson

keylime_5
04-07-2012, 11:13 AM
I just don't see the point of using a premium pick on Weeden this year. I say the Browns stock up on playmakers on both sides of the ball. Should Colt not show any progress, then pick a QB in next years first, wherever the pick may be. I believe one more years with a dynamic receiver, dynamic back, and a premium line pick would be fair.

and I also want to say that it was hard for me to have the Browns pass on Richardson

i agree. don't waste a pick on a QB if you're not gonna get Luck or Griffin. The odds aren't in our favor and we are better off just upgrading our horrific offensive supporting cast this year and getting a QB next year. The chances that Weeden or Cousins or even Tannehill (who you have would pass up on an elite offensive talent to take at #4) turn out to be the franchise QB are very slim, not worth the risk when we have sooooo many holes to fill that we are intent on only filling with draft picks and not free agents.

diemertsdawgs
04-08-2012, 12:41 AM
This is options I like:
#4 = Richardson/Blackmon/Claiborne or trade down and stock pile picks.
#22 = Stephen Hill WR Ga.Tech/D.Hightower LB Bama/Kirkpatrick CB Bama/Luke Kuechly LB BC/trade down again
#36 = Alshon Jeffrey WR SCar/Harrison Smith S ND/Mike Adams OT Ohio St.
#68= A.Dennard CB/Weeden/Osweiler/R.Turbin/N.Toon/T.Johnson CB Montana Who knows where these guys will fall? Things always change on draft day.

OhioJB
04-08-2012, 05:50 AM
I just don't see the point of using a premium pick on Weeden this year. I say the Browns stock up on playmakers on both sides of the ball. Should Colt not show any progress, then pick a QB in next years first, wherever the pick may be. I believe one more years with a dynamic receiver, dynamic back, and a premium line pick would be fair.

and I also want to say that it was hard for me to have the Browns pass on Richardson

Honestly, I think alot of fans after seeing clips of Richardson's pro day were sold on him, myself included. I doubt too many of us were able to watch most of his college games. So as Mike Mayock and others like to say, he won the underwear Olympics. Seeing clips of his pro day and highlights from last season, made me believe he could take alot of pressure off McCoy and the passing game. Then at #22 if they are able to draft one of the burners at WR who could blow the top off defenses, they'd be able to prevent other teams from stacking the box.

But hey, MH and TH may still be trying to decide between three or four players. I'm sure they know all about the underwear Olympics, and wont be fooled if there's a reason to not believe the hype that Richardson is the best RB since AP. Something MH said though makes me believe either the RB or a WR will be selected at #4. He just made the comment that he thought the fans would be really excited with the player they take there. I doubt he thought we'd be excited with Tannehill or even Claiborne. We'd all be very happy with Claiborne, but probably not excited the way we could be with the RB.

It'll be interesting to see how many times the team trades up in the draft this year. If they want Kendall Wright they may have to trade up at least a couple of spots. More likely though that they try to trade up from 37 to get a 3rd 1st rounder, if they believe they can fit another one in their rookie salary cap. It just makes so much sense to try getting a RB, WR, and OT with the first three selections. Although I do have a bad feeling they want Weeden and might use #22 on him worried he wont be there at #37. They may end up waiting to get their RT in the 3rd round. And where they find a CB will also be something to keep an eye on. I doubt they believe he's already on the team, unless they believe Patterson has good coverage ability. Hard to believe that's the case though.

OhioJB
04-08-2012, 05:59 AM
This is options I like:
#4 = Richardson/Blackmon/Claiborne or trade down and stock pile picks.
#22 = Stephen Hill WR Ga.Tech/D.Hightower LB Bama/Kirkpatrick CB Bama/Luke Kuechly LB BC/trade down again
#36 = Alshon Jeffrey WR SCar/Harrison Smith S ND/Mike Adams OT Ohio St.
#68= A.Dennard CB/Weeden/Osweiler/R.Turbin/N.Toon/T.Johnson CB Montana Who knows where these guys will fall? Things always change on draft day.

Interesting that you mentioned Turbin. I recorded the Combine and little by little have been trying to watch it. Yesterday I was watching the day the RB's took part, and noticed Turbin. He's got massive biceps, and you can tell he's not afraid of the weight room. I'd like to see the Browns take him just to have a basher to help wear down defenses. Only if all that muscle translated to the football field of course. Looks like a big powerful back any team could use, and I'm guessing could be had in the mid rounds. Even if the team drafts Richardson, I'd still like to see another back drafted later to challenge Hardesty and Jackson.

OhioJB
04-08-2012, 06:22 AM
Just looked at where Turbin is ranked, and some sites have him 7th or 8th at the RB position. One site lists him as a 3rd rounder. So not the mid round prospect I thought he was, as he's rated a little bit higher.

mdmgrand
04-08-2012, 11:16 AM
Turbin has been on the rise since the combine. I'm just worried because Massie has also been on the rise and may go in the late first.

When I wrote my giant write up about the Browns taking Claiborne and then having the rest of the pieces fall into place, I forgot that (in addition to Haden) they still do have an old, but somewhat effective Sheldon Brown and just gave Patterson a three year deal. They also used Buster Skrine more and more as the season progressed. So honestly I believe I was wrong, and will have to redo a few parts of the Mock. I'll post the update in about an hour.

mdmgrand
04-08-2012, 12:18 PM
Sorry for posting such long winded mock drafts. But I realized Claiborne to the Browns is really not an option, so I had to rewrite the draft, and the dominoes that fell by changing that first pick. So enjoy. I'm back on the Richardson Bandwagon!

Round 1, Pick 4) Trent Richardson RB, Alabama
- After I previously had Claiborne in this spot, I realized that the Browns already have three cornerbacks who can get the job done in Haden, Brown and Patterson. So with the fourth pick I believe the Browns will give a boost to three areas: rushing attack, fan base, and ticket sales. Richardson compares favorably to Jonathan Stewart (who I believe could be a top three back) as a rusher but without Stewart's injury bug. Great Pick for need and talent.
Need Grade - A, Talent Grade - A

Round 1, Pick 22) Stephen Hill WR, Georgia Tech
- I believe Hill would be a tremendous addition to the Browns at the Pick 22. He is a world class athlete (Long Jumped nearly 26 ft in high school, which would have placed him 9th at the Beijing Olympics) with 4.36 speed at 6-4. He may take a year to develop into a steady receiver, but his big-play ability will we used to take the top off the defense, as well as, his skills as an experienced and strong blocker.
Need Grade - B+, Talent Grade - B+

Round 2, Pick 37) Bobby Massie OT, Ole Miss
- Massie will jump in a become the starter at RT and stay there for years to come. I approve of the Browns waiting until Round Two before they pick a right tackle. Even though Massie will probably never become a Pro Bowl tackle, he grades out to become a solid starter, and a clear upgrade to the rushing attack on the right side.
Need Grade - A, Talent Grade - B-

Round 3, Pick 67) Mychal Kendricks ILB/OLB, Cal
- At this point, depending on who falls, you could argue Kendricks will be the BPA or possibly taken already. I believe he will be there at the 67th pick. He has experience at every linebacker position and production to follow. I have heard that he is slipping because of interviews and the wonderlic due to his inability to analyze and pick up adjustments, but that's why I believe he will fit as an roaming, athletic WLB rather than an ILB.
Need Grade - B, Talent Grade - B-

Round 4, Pick 100) Omar Bolden CB, ASU
- Without grabbing a cornerback in the earlier rounds, the Browns pick up Omar Bolden in the fourth. In his first year he would probably be used sporadically in dime formations. He falls a bit due to his Injury that caused him to miss his senior season. Having him sit a year while Brown is still used at corner, could be the best situation for Bolden
Need Grade - C-, Talent Grade - C+

Round 4, Pick 118) Russell Wilson QB, Wisconsin
- I don't know what it is about Wilson, but I am very high on his ability to succeed in the NFL in spite of his height. Phenomenal arm strength and talent. In the Wisconsin Pro Ready offense, he posted a 33 - 4 TD to INT ratio. He also played behind a very Tall and Big offensive line, similar in size to that of NFL players. Holmgren will also see his athleticism and think back to when he selected Seneca Wallace for the Seahawks (who did not have the arm Wilson has). Wilson could challenge for the starting job if McCoy falters early.
Need Grade - B, Talent Grade - B-

Round 5, Pick 139) Matt Reynolds OT, BYU
- Reynolds is a solid player who has 52 starts under his belt. A little older at age 25, but that allowed him to fill out his frame and spend a lot of time studying and learning. He is a strong, run blocking tackle, that I believe could be moved around the offensive line. He adds depth and could possibly play at RT or RG.
Need Grade - D+, Talent Grade - C

Round 5, Pick 160) Donte Paige-Moss DE, UNC
- Paige-Moss is an athletic defensive end who has had an up and down career at UNC. Mid-round flyer on a guy with talent, but may not put it all together. In the Browns' ongoing transition to a 4-3, I'd get another athletic end to team with Rucker, Sheard and Bernard.
Need Grade - C-, Talent Grade - C

Round 6, Pick 204) Eddie Pleasant SS, Oregon
- The last time the Browns picked, arguably reached for, a safety from Oregon, it worked out very well with T.J. Ward. As an Oregon fan, I can say that I would be happy to bring Pleasant onboard. Even though Ward was more well rounded and consistent, Pleasant was always around the ball. Playing as a Rover, and he used to be a full-time LB, Pleasant would be specifically used as a SS, and he has the athleticism and know how to pull of this transition. I see his future in the NFL as a standout special teams ace.
Need Grade - D, Talent Grade - D+, Chance of Making Final Roster - 65%

Round 6, Pick 205) Akiem Hicks DT, Regina (CA)
- A little unknown hailing from University of Regina in Canada, Hicks has elite size and ability to stick with an NFL team. At 6-4, 325, Hicks is huge and he has athleticism. After reading reports he is a strictly developmental player, who will need a couple years of seasoning.
Need Grade - C, Talent Grade - C-, Chance of Making Final Roster - 65%

Round 7, Pick 211) Caleb McSurdy ILB, Montana
- A linebacker, who some teams worked out at a fullback, would add versatility to the defense as well as special teams. He could serve as depth along the entire linebacking crew and possibly be made into an emergency fullback, so that the Browns would only have to commit one full-time fullback roster spot to Marecic.
Need Grade - D-, Talent Grade - D-, Chance of Making Final Roster - 50%

Round 7, Pick 245) Bryce Brown RB, Kansas State
- Brown has had a weird college career; one in which many question his commitment to football. People want to think of him as an UDFA, but in my opinion why not draft him late with a comp pick and at least own the rights. We see this every year with running backs with red flags (personal, athletic). The scouts on NFL teams seem to over think the position and simply wait until UDFA stage (Blount TB, Foster HOU). Take a chance on a talented guy, if you must stash him on the practice squad.
Need Grade - C-, Talent Grade - C, Chance of Making Final Roster - 20%

Round 7, Pick 247) Marquis Maze WR, Alabama
- Not much to say here, take an experienced guy with physical limitations and see what happens. I actually believe he will make the final roster or practice squad due to his experience and his decent production.
Need Grade - D, talent Grade - D, Chance of Making Final Roster - 35%

OhioJB
04-08-2012, 03:09 PM
Don't worry about being long-winded, mgmgrand. When you are posting a mock for a team that has 13 picks it's hard not to be. You did a real nice job on it, although I have to admit not knowing alot about most of the players after the 2nd round, only because I usually enjoy watching pro ball more than college ball. For some reason the past two years I've hardly watched any college ball, so have had to rely on highlights, the Combine, and pro days to form some sort of an opinion.

The only player I cringe at a little bit is Russell Wilson. He is a good QB, I just worry about the lack of height. But we'll see. If they select him it'll be interesting to see how he pans out.

Draft's almost here...one of my favorite events of the year!

Brown Leader
04-09-2012, 06:42 PM
Sorry for posting such long winded mock drafts. But I realized Claiborne to the Browns is really not an option, so I had to rewrite the draft, and the dominoes that fell by changing that first pick. So enjoy. I'm back on the Richardson Bandwagon!

Round 1, Pick 4) Trent Richardson RB, Alabama
- After I previously had Claiborne in this spot, I realized that the Browns already have three cornerbacks who can get the job done in Haden, Brown and Patterson. So with the fourth pick I believe the Browns will give a boost to three areas: rushing attack, fan base, and ticket sales. Richardson compares favorably to Jonathan Stewart (who I believe could be a top three back) as a rusher but without Stewart's injury bug. Great Pick for need and talent.
Need Grade - A, Talent Grade - A

Round 1, Pick 22) Stephen Hill WR, Georgia Tech
- I believe Hill would be a tremendous addition to the Browns at the Pick 22. He is a world class athlete (Long Jumped nearly 26 ft in high school, which would have placed him 9th at the Beijing Olympics) with 4.36 speed at 6-4. He may take a year to develop into a steady receiver, but his big-play ability will we used to take the top off the defense, as well as, his skills as an experienced and strong blocker.
Need Grade - B+, Talent Grade - B+

Round 2, Pick 37) Bobby Massie OT, Ole Miss
- Massie will jump in a become the starter at RT and stay there for years to come. I approve of the Browns waiting until Round Two before they pick a right tackle. Even though Massie will probably never become a Pro Bowl tackle, he grades out to become a solid starter, and a clear upgrade to the rushing attack on the right side.
Need Grade - A, Talent Grade - B-

Round 3, Pick 67) Mychal Kendricks ILB/OLB, Cal
- At this point, depending on who falls, you could argue Kendricks will be the BPA or possibly taken already. I believe he will be there at the 67th pick. He has experience at every linebacker position and production to follow. I have heard that he is slipping because of interviews and the wonderlic due to his inability to analyze and pick up adjustments, but that's why I believe he will fit as an roaming, athletic WLB rather than an ILB.
Need Grade - B, Talent Grade - B-

Round 4, Pick 100) Omar Bolden CB, ASU
- Without grabbing a cornerback in the earlier rounds, the Browns pick up Omar Bolden in the fourth. In his first year he would probably be used sporadically in dime formations. He falls a bit due to his Injury that caused him to miss his senior season. Having him sit a year while Brown is still used at corner, could be the best situation for Bolden
Need Grade - C-, Talent Grade - C+

Round 4, Pick 118) Russell Wilson QB, Wisconsin
- I don't know what it is about Wilson, but I am very high on his ability to succeed in the NFL in spite of his height. Phenomenal arm strength and talent. In the Wisconsin Pro Ready offense, he posted a 33 - 4 TD to INT ratio. He also played behind a very Tall and Big offensive line, similar in size to that of NFL players. Holmgren will also see his athleticism and think back to when he selected Seneca Wallace for the Seahawks (who did not have the arm Wilson has). Wilson could challenge for the starting job if McCoy falters early.
Need Grade - B, Talent Grade - B-

Round 5, Pick 139) Matt Reynolds OT, BYU
- Reynolds is a solid player who has 52 starts under his belt. A little older at age 25, but that allowed him to fill out his frame and spend a lot of time studying and learning. He is a strong, run blocking tackle, that I believe could be moved around the offensive line. He adds depth and could possibly play at RT or RG.
Need Grade - D+, Talent Grade - C

Round 5, Pick 160) Donte Paige-Moss DE, UNC
- Paige-Moss is an athletic defensive end who has had an up and down career at UNC. Mid-round flyer on a guy with talent, but may not put it all together. In the Browns' ongoing transition to a 4-3, I'd get another athletic end to team with Rucker, Sheard and Bernard.
Need Grade - C-, Talent Grade - C

Round 6, Pick 204) Eddie Pleasant SS, Oregon
- The last time the Browns picked, arguably reached for, a safety from Oregon, it worked out very well with T.J. Ward. As an Oregon fan, I can say that I would be happy to bring Pleasant onboard. Even though Ward was more well rounded and consistent, Pleasant was always around the ball. Playing as a Rover, and he used to be a full-time LB, Pleasant would be specifically used as a SS, and he has the athleticism and know how to pull of this transition. I see his future in the NFL as a standout special teams ace.
Need Grade - D, Talent Grade - D+, Chance of Making Final Roster - 65%

Round 6, Pick 205) Akiem Hicks DT, Regina (CA)
- A little unknown hailing from University of Regina in Canada, Hicks has elite size and ability to stick with an NFL team. At 6-4, 325, Hicks is huge and he has athleticism. After reading reports he is a strictly developmental player, who will need a couple years of seasoning.
Need Grade - C, Talent Grade - C-, Chance of Making Final Roster - 65%

Round 7, Pick 211) Caleb McSurdy ILB, Montana
- A linebacker, who some teams worked out at a fullback, would add versatility to the defense as well as special teams. He could serve as depth along the entire linebacking crew and possibly be made into an emergency fullback, so that the Browns would only have to commit one full-time fullback roster spot to Marecic.
Need Grade - D-, Talent Grade - D-, Chance of Making Final Roster - 50%

Round 7, Pick 245) Bryce Brown RB, Kansas State
- Brown has had a weird college career; one in which many question his commitment to football. People want to think of him as an UDFA, but in my opinion why not draft him late with a comp pick and at least own the rights. We see this every year with running backs with red flags (personal, athletic). The scouts on NFL teams seem to over think the position and simply wait until UDFA stage (Blount TB, Foster HOU). Take a chance on a talented guy, if you must stash him on the practice squad.
Need Grade - C-, Talent Grade - C, Chance of Making Final Roster - 20%

Round 7, Pick 247) Marquis Maze WR, Alabama
- Not much to say here, take an experienced guy with physical limitations and see what happens. I actually believe he will make the final roster or practice squad due to his experience and his decent production.
Need Grade - D, talent Grade - D, Chance of Making Final Roster - 35%

I love the first two guys but it's because I prefer a smash mouth, run first type offense. For Shurmur's pass first offense I don't think it's the right fit. I won't get into it in depth right now, but there's a lot going against Trent being the guy imo. (in short: pass league-history of top ten backs-our pass first offense, etc...) Also I think Massie is going to end up in the first (prob our #22.). As is Kendricks.

Boldin is off the radar. I've got him as a 6-7 FA type but I didn't see a lot of him when he was healthy.

R.Wilson? I like him but Seneca 2.O is probably not where they ought to go.

Reynolds is a solid 5th round type but Paige Moss will be lucky to get drafted.

As for the rest, I don't think we keep all our picks. With so many it allows us to move around and key on the guys we covet. Moving up in the 2nd or 3rd is a probability.

mdmgrand
04-10-2012, 09:28 AM
I fully expect to hear the Cleveland's name many times throughout the draft in regards to trade.

There are just so many possibilities....

In regards to Wilson, as a prospect he is only similar to Wallace in height and speed. Wilson has much better arm strength, accuracy, and touch. So Seneca 2.0 he is not, he's just a guy with an enormous amount of talent but unfortunately still is 5-11.

keylime_5
04-13-2012, 12:04 PM
I agree, we will make a lot of trades - though I don't really expect many until the middle rounds....that is what the Eagles always did when Tom Heckert was their GM - they made a lot of draft day trades and they always had a ton of draft picks at their disposal.

A lot of talk about us being interested in Tannehill and Weeden - but I don't expect us to take a QB this year until the mid-late rounds to be our #3 developmental QB. If they don't take a starting QB early (which they probably won't) then that means Colt is the starter and probable longterm future at backup QB, with Seneca being the backup for this season and the short term future. They missed out on Luck and Griffin, they should and probably will wait next year for more options at QB that are better. We need to use those premium picks to upgrade our offensive talent, not roll the dice on a QB who will more than likely either bust or be average.

Shupp
04-13-2012, 10:46 PM
Wow seems like you guys are high on Hill @ 22. I'm hoping he gets through CLE and Texas @ 26..looked like a lock a few weeks ago, now not so much. So you guys mostly agree that Hill is the #3 receiver or are you assuming Wright is already gone?

Iamcanadian
04-14-2012, 01:27 AM
I think Hill will be our #22 pick and I really like it but at #4 I just don't know which direction they will go, I haven't a clue. I think at 37, they can get a very decent RB so why take Richardson at #4 even if he is a huge talent. I think Blackmon is a really strong possibility with Wilson or Miller at 37 and then #22 becomes the huge question mark.
I'm hoping Tannehill isn't the pick because I just not sure, he won't be a complete bust.

Possibilities:

1) Richardson
22) Hill
37) Massie RT

Would certainly give our offense some real weapons.

OR
4) Blackmon
22) Adams RT
37) Wilson or Miller

or
4) Tannehill
22) Hill
37) Wilson or Miller or Massie with a RB a bit later.

And finally:
4) Richardson
22) Hill
37) Weedon

I don't like the prospect for finding a quality QB next draft, with all the offensive talent we've added 6 or 7 wins isn't out of the equation and the cost for drafting a franchise QB could be really prohibitive with even more competition for the necessary pick.

keylime_5
04-14-2012, 12:12 PM
I think it's becoming clear that #4 will be Richardson if they don't trade down, with a slight but unlikely chance that they take Tannehill. I think Blackmon is out, he is more likely to slip to #7 or later than go #4 it seems. he isn't an elite WR prospect.

#22 they go Kendall Wright if he's there, but I don't think he will be. I think they might reach for Hill, but more likely take BPA which could be a tackle (Martin, Reiff, Glenn, or Adams). They could possibly get Mike Adams or Bobby Massie in the 2nd round too though. If they go RT at 22, they could go Reuben Randle, Bobby Quick, or even Hill (no one is sure where he will go b/c he is such a project).

I wouldn't rule out a surprise defensive player taken at 22 or 37 either. They really like Ohio native Whitney Mercilus, and they might take a CB too if Gilmore slips. It's really hard to predict what teams do in the 20s and 30s compared to the top 15 picks. No one thought we'd take Phil Taylor last year, even after we traded down. Didn't really seem like a player that fit our needs, but we took him and he fit our defense well.

keylime_5
04-14-2012, 12:30 PM
...the thing is, with so many needs we can afford to just take the overall best player available and it will improve our team the most......so while it would be nice to draft a RB, WR, and OT with our first three picks, I have my doubts that it will happen and that a DE, CB, S, or LB might sneak their way into the mix. This is probably a good idea b/c it increases the chances that our picks are great players and not reaches who fill needs that are just solid.

Iamcanadian
04-15-2012, 10:50 AM
The Cleveland Browns need TALENT at nearly every position on the field and really cannot go wrong in the 2012 NFL Draft if they simply pick a good mix of players with game changing potential at skill positions and steady, hard working players at all other positions. Ah, if it was only this simple. Here is my entire mock, and I realize trades will happen, but I sat and contemplated multiple scenarios with Pick 4 and Pick 22, which alter the entire draft for the Browns.

Round 1, Pick 4) Morris Claiborne CB, LSU
- The thought behind this first pick has to be BPA, mixing the value of positions involved as well. Claiborne and Haden would be an amazing duo in the secondary, and in a passing league, you cannot have enough talented CB's, and they do not come very often. Great Pick, partly a Luxury, but we must add elite talent to a position that cannot be filled later.
Need Grade - C, Talent Grade - A

I think we have to go offense here. I don't think there is any choice so if we don't take Tannehill or Richardson, then Blackmon becomes the most likely pick. It will all come down to whether they want to run the ball(Richardson) or throw the ball(Blackmon). I'm hoping they don't reach on Tannehill but Lerner may insist on a QB.

Round 1, Pick 22) Stephen Hill WR, Georgia Tech
- I believe Hill would be a tremendous addition to the Browns at the Pick 22. He is a world class athlete (Long Jumped nearly 26 ft in high school, which would have placed him 9th at the Beijing Olympics) with 4.36 speed at 6-4. He may take a year to develop into a steady receiver, but his big-play ability will we used, as well as his skills as a blocker.
Need Grade - B+, Talent Grade - B+

Love this pick and think it has a strong possibility of happening if we pass on Blackmon at #4. If we take Blackmon at #4 then Martin or Wilson may get picked in this spot.

Round 2, Pick 37) Bobby Massie OT, Ole Miss
- Massie will jump in a become the starter at RT and stay there for years to come. I approve of the Browns waiting until Round Two before they pick a right tackle. Even though Massie will probably never become a Pro Bowl tackle, he grades out to become a solid starter.
Need Grade - A, Talent Grade - B-

Love this pick and there is a strong possibility of it taking place.

Round 3, Pick 67) LaMichael James RB, Oregon
- James will be used as a utility back and a possible punt returner. He would instantly add speed and flashy play to the backfield. He fills the need for a big play back, complimenting Hardesty's size and power. Running backs have a small shelf life and can be had in later rounds; premium picks just should not be used on them. Even though Richardson would be a flashy pick in the Top Five, I believe the Browns should stand pat and wait until Round Three to obtain a back. James may never be a full time back, due to his size and frame, but 12 carries and 3 receptions a game would allow him to be productive and stay healthy.
Need Grade - A, Talent Grade - B+

Mark me down as a James lover so I wouldn't complain about this choice. The only scary thing is how often he fumbles.

Round 4, Pick 100) Russell Wilson QB, Wisconsin
- I don't know what it is about Wilson, but I am very high on his ability to succeed in the NFL in spite of his height. Phenomenal arm strength and talent. In the Wisconsin Pro Ready offense, he posted a 33 - 4, TD to INT ratio. He also played behind a very Tall and Big offensive line, similar in size to that of NFL players. Holmgren will also see his athleticism and think back to when he selected Seneca Wallace for the Seahawks (who did/does not have the arm Wilson has). Wilson could challenge for the starting job if McCoy falters early.
Need Grade - B, Talent Grade - B-

Worth the risk but I'm not a lover of his skill set.

Round 4, Pick 118) Marcus Forston DT, Miami
- Looking throughout the balance between need and talent here, there just seems to be no player in a need column that would be a quality pick at this spot. Forston has durability concerns, but he has a great first step, and elite athleticism for the DT spot. He would be a situational player for the Browns, playing primarily on passing downs.
Need Grade - D+, Talent Grade - C+

Some upside and he probably goes around here so it is a decent pick.

Round 5, Pick 139) Matt Reynolds OT, BYU
- Reynolds is a solid player who has 52 starts under his belt. A little older at age 25, but that allowed him to fill out his frame and spend a lot of time studying and learning. He is a strong, run blocking tackle, that I believe could be moved around the offensive line. He adds depth and could possibly play at RT or RG.
Need Grade - D+, Talent Grade - C

Another reasonable pick and certainly a possibility.

Round 5, Pick 160) Vontaze Burfict ILB, Arizona State
- Now Burfict may not have a great track record, great speed, and arguably maturity, but this guy has shown flashes of being a great linebacker. Using a fifth round pick on a guy with equal potential as being a starter in three years, or out of the league in three years sounds like a deal to me. Huge hitter with a mean streak. He would add physicality to the Browns defense, much like division rivals Pittsburgh and Baltimore use to their advantage. I am all for taking a chance on this kid.
Need Grade - D, Talent Grade - B

No way I would ever touch this guy in any draft. He won't even make a roster in the NFL.

Round 6, Pick 204) Eddie Pleasant SS, Oregon
- The last time the Browns picked a safety from Oregon, it worked out very well with T.J. Ward. As an Oregon fan, I can say that I would be happy to bring Pleasant along board. Even though Ward was more well rounded and consistent, Pleasant was always around the ball. Playing as a Rover, and he used to be a full-time LB, Pleasant would be specifically used as a SS, and he has the athleticism and know how to pull of this transition.
Need Grade - D, Talent Grade - C-, Chance of Making Final Roster - 65%

Round 6, Pick 205) Kourtnei Brown DE, Clemson
- Even though, phonetically speaking, he shares the same name as the Injury-Related Bust in Browns' History, Brown has a chance to make the team as a developmental DE. At 6-5, 255 and with 4.7 speed, Brown could stick as the Browns continue to reshape into a 4-3 team.
Need Grade - C, Talent Grade - D, Chance of Making Final Roster - 50%

Round 7, Pick 211) Micah Pellerin CB, Hampton
- Decent Speed, and Good Size. There is not much more you look for in a Late Round Flyer type pick. These guys from smaller schools may not have the necessary tape on them, and with size and speed, why not?
Need Grade - D, Talent Grade - D-, Chance of Making Final Roster - 45%

Round 7, Pick 245) Bryce Brown RB, Kansas State
- Brown has had a weird college career; one in which many question his commitment to football. People want to think of him as an UDFA, but in my opinion why not draft him late with a comp pick and at least own the rights. We see this every year with running backs with red flags (personal, athletic). The scouts on NFL teams seem to over think the position and simply wait until UDFA stage (Blount TB, Foster HOU). Take a chance on a talented guy, if you must stash him on the practice squad.
Need Grade - C-, Talent Grade - C, Chance of Making Final Roster - 20%

Round 7, Pick 247) Marquis Maze WR, Alabama
- Not much to say here, take an experienced guy with physical limitations and see what happens. I actually believe he will make the final roster or practice squad due to his experience and his decent production.
Need Grade - D, talent Grade - D, Chance of Making Final Roster - 35%

Outside of Maze, these last picks are anybody's guess. I kind of like Maze and think he could be a very decent 2nd stringer and as a punt and KO returner.

mdmgrand
04-17-2012, 10:46 AM
This is my perfect scenario which has a 1% chance of happening. Also this is the ONLY scenario in which I want the Browns to pass on Richardson

Free Agency

1) Sign Wallace Gilberry DE to a 2-Year Deal
- This move probably would not make a huge splash, but Gilberry never fit into Kansas City's Scheme, and giving him a chance on the Browns defensive end rotation would improve run support.

2) Sign Barry Richardson OT to a 1-Year Deal
- Once again a player from Kansas City. Richardson can provide depth at the tackle position, and he started every game for the past two seasons with Kansas City. I'm not saying he will solve the offensive line problem, but he would provide young, and experienced depth.

3) Add an athletic OLB


Trade

1) If it is true that Carolina is taking offers for Jonathan Stewart since it's his last year of his contract and they already committed to Tolbert/Williams, the Browns must call. I'm going to say that a 3rd round choice should do it (Honestly I wouldn't be surprised if a 4th rounder would do it either since he's a running back, but I'll stick with the 3rd)

Cleveland sends the Round 3, Pick 67 to Carolina in exchange for Jonathan Stewart


Draft (First Four Rounds)

Round 1, Pick 4 - Justin Blackmon WR, Oklahoma State
Round 1, Pick 22 - Mark Barron FS/SS, Alabama
Round 2, Pick 37 - Bobby Massie OT, Ole Miss
Round 4, Pick 100 - Keenan Robinson OLB, Texas
Round 4, Pick 118 - Russell Wilson QB, Wisconsin


Analysis
- The skill positions would be much improved with an NFL ready Blackmon, Little and Stewart.
- Getting Barron at pick 22 would fill the void at free safety and help Cleveland solidify itself as a perennial top five pass defense, he would also improve run defense.
- Massie would step in and start at right tackle.
- Keenan Robinson would provide depth with starting potential down the road.
- Russell Wilson would be a developmental QB, who knows the WCO, and has a great arm.

Iamcanadian
04-17-2012, 03:42 PM
This is my perfect scenario which has a 1% chance of happening. Also this is the ONLY scenario in which I want the Browns to pass on Richardson

Free Agency

1) Sign Wallace Gilberry DE to a 2-Year Deal
- This move probably would not make a huge splash, but Gilberry never fit into Kansas City's Scheme, and giving him a chance on the Browns defensive end rotation would improve run support.

2) Sign Barry Richardson OT to a 1-Year Deal
- Once again a player from Kansas City. Richardson can provide depth at the tackle position, and he started every game for the past two seasons with Kansas City. I'm not saying he will solve the offensive line problem, but he would provide young, and experienced depth.

3) Add an athletic OLB


Trade

1) If it is true that Carolina is taking offers for Jonathan Stewart since it's his last year of his contract and they already committed to Tolbert/Williams, the Browns must call. I'm going to say that a 3rd round choice should do it (Honestly I wouldn't be surprised if a 4th rounder would do it either since he's a running back, but I'll stick with the 3rd)

Cleveland sends the Round 3, Pick 67 to Carolina in exchange for Jonathan Stewart


Draft (First Four Rounds)

Round 1, Pick 4 - Justin Blackmon WR, Oklahoma State
Round 1, Pick 22 - Mark Barron FS/SS, Alabama
Round 2, Pick 37 - Bobby Massie OT, Ole Miss
Round 4, Pick 100 - Keenan Robinson OLB, Texas
Round 4, Pick 118 - Russell Wilson QB, Wisconsin


Analysis
- The skill positions would be much improved with an NFL ready Blackmon, Little and Stewart.
- Getting Barron at pick 22 would fill the void at free safety and help Cleveland solidify itself as a perennial top five pass defense, he would also improve run defense.
- Massie would step in and start at right tackle.
- Keenan Robinson would provide depth with starting potential down the road.
- Russell Wilson would be a developmental QB, who knows the WCO, and has a great arm.

There is no way Barron ever gets to us at #22.

mdmgrand
04-18-2012, 10:19 PM
This is Mock Three out of Four.... I will complete my last and final mock next week, the day before the draft... As a fan I would like to see the Browns use their first two picks on RB/WR, but if Richardson is the pick at 4, I just do not trust the receivers left at 22... Here is Mock 3.0

Round 1, Pick 4) Trent Richardson RB, Alabama
- Trent Richardson brings toughness, potential, personality and ticket sales to the Browns. Slam Dunk Pick even if many question taking a running this high.
Grade: A+

Round 1, Pick 22) Whitney Mercilus DE, Illinois
- In a surprise here the Browns take a pass rusher to boost their defensive line. The additions of Rucker and Parker are not going to deter the Browns from taking a player who has potential to become a dynamic pass rusher opposite of the all-around Sheard.
Grade: B+
Round 2, Pick 37) Bobby Massie OT, Ole Miss
- Massie will jump in a become the starter at RT and stay there for years to come. I approve of the Browns waiting until Round Two before they pick a right tackle. Even though Massie will probably never become a Pro Bowl tackle, he grades out to become a solid starter, and a clear upgrade to the rushing attack on the right side.
Grade: A-
Round 3, Pick 67) Brian Quick WR, Appalachian State
- Quick is a very large target (6-4, 220), with 4.5 speed. He is raw coming from Appalachian State, but with a receiver with his physical traits, he could put it all together.
Grade: B

Round 4, Pick 100) Josh Kaddu OLB, Oregon
- Kaddu can add playmaking ability to a linebacking core that needs it. He is a work in progress but the Browns can afford to have him sit behind Fujita and Gocong for a year.
Grade: B-

Round 4, Pick 118) Russell Wilson QB, Wisconsin
- I am very high on Wilson. He has literally everything you want in a QB except height. I believe he will be able to overcome this and become a quality starter in this league.
Grade: A-

Round 5, Pick 139) Josh Norman CB, Coastal Carolina
- The only position the Browns can afford to take a flyer on. Norman is athletic and has good size for the position. Boom/Bust Pick
Grade: C+

Round 5, Pick 160) Jarius Wright WR, Arkansas
- The Browns use this pick on a burner from Arkansas with experience in the slot.
Grade: C

Round 6, Pick 204) Eddie Pleasant SS, Oregon
- Eddie Pleasant would provide good value at this location as a backup safety and special teams player. He is a big hitter and is always around the ball.
Grade: C+

Round 6, Pick 205) Myles Wade DT, Portland State
- A risky pick here, but talent is there. 6-1, 310 and completed 42 reps with a 35 inch vertical. He deserves as chance, as he bounced around colleges. I see him sticking in the NFL.
Grade - C

Round 7, Pick 211) Donte Paige-Moss DE, North Carolina
- A risky pick on a player who probably will not make the team. He has talent, but off the field issues are ridiculous.
Grade: C

Round 7, Pick 245) Bryce Brown RB, Kansas State
- Brown is an enigma; no one knows what to make of him. I say why not spend a late round pick to at least own his rights. At his pro day, he ran a sub 4.4 forty at 223 lbs. Give this guy a try in camp.
Grade: D

Round 7, Pick 247) Derek Dennis OG, Temple
- Dennis is not likely to make the team. He has experience at many positions on the line, and could provide depth if he impresses.
Grade: D

OhioJB
04-20-2012, 10:07 PM
I'm pretty much prepared for anything in the 1st and 2nd rounds. Heckert mentioned they have 18 players rated in the 1st round, and he expects to be able to get one of them at #22. He talked about having gotten burned a little in Philly when they drafted for need rather than best player available. I'm sure need will still be a major factor when selecting, but I'm not counting out a D-lineman at #22.

I'm thinking there's a possibility Dre Kilpatrick will be available at #22. Gilmore has been getting more hype in the media, and I haven't heard alot about Kilpatrick throughout the process. Doesn't sound like a bump and run type, but a good cover corner.

Also, reading between the lines, I doubt they draft Weeden at #22. Not convinced they'll even take him at #37.

I'm intrigued with the WR from LSU, Randle. He's got good size and has some speed, although I don't think he's as fast in pads as Kendall Wright. One of the talking heads yesterday mentioned Wright being a slot guy. If that's the case, I have to wonder if he'll be the Browns 3rd highest rated WR. Seems to me they need a WR who can line up on the outside against the opposing defense's best CB. Maybe Randle can do that. May not matter, as I'm guessing Wright be off the board before the team uses that second 1st rounder.

Heckert mentioned there are "...no ties..." on their draft board for the highest four players, so they are obviously sure about who they'll be selecting. If Richardson is on the board and they don't take him, many Browns fans will be disappointed. Personally, I think they will take him, unless a team trades up to get him at #3.

If that happens, Kalil will be available, along with Blackmon and Claiborne. My guess is they'd select Claiborne, but an argument could be made for taking Kalil. At least the way I see it, they don't have a legitimate backup for Joe Thomas. If they drafted Kalil, they'd have their RT, plus a quality backup for Thomas. As it stands now, if Thomas ever gets hurt, we'd be in a world of hurt at that position. Not saying I want Kalil, just that an argument can be made for taking him if Richardson is not available.

Would not be surprised if it goes something like this:

1-#4: Richardson
1-#22: Dre Kilpatrick
1-#(30's in a trade up to NE's 2nd 1st rounder): Randle

I'm guessing it would be hard fitting three 1st rounders under the rookie salary cap (along with their other picks), but if they think they can, New England likes trading down so they might be willing to trade one of their 1st rounders.

keylime_5
04-24-2012, 03:24 PM
Okay it's getting a little clearer.

Let's hope someone (Tampa or St.Louis) doesn't trade up into the 3 spot to take Richardson, because obviously he is the guy we are targeting at 4. Claiborne would be our backup plan at 4 if Richardson gets taken 3rd and we can't trade down....and while i love claiborne I would be disappointed with that scenario for two reasons:

1-Claiborne is a defensive player, and we HAVE to take offensive playmakers with our high picks this year no matter what.
2-IF we have Haden and Claiborne, then when those guys get to their contract, it is doubtful that we can afford to pay both of them the money they will be demanding (assuming both are top flight corners at that time, which should be a given).

If someone trades up and steals Richardson, we should trade down a few spots and draft either Blackmon or Floyd. That is all there is to it, I don't think there is any other scenario except to stay at 4 and take Claiborne if we can't move down.

I think they (and certainly I) want Kendall Wright at 22. I would not rule out Stephen Hill or Rueben Randle there if Wright is gone, though both would be slight reaches...and of course Jonathan Martin or Riley Reiff or even Cordy Glenn if he falls could be solutions to the RT position at 22. I would prefer a WR there and then either Bobby Massie or Mike Adams at 37.

Lots of talk about Weeden at 37, but I wouldn't waste a high pick like that on a QB unless you feel that he is a franchise QB who can lead you to super bowls with the right team around him and be a part of a top notch NFL offense like the best QBs are. If he can do that then age obviously isn't an issue. The issue is whether he can be Brees/Brady/Stafford/Manning/Roethlisberger/Rivers, or if he is just another Cassel/Henne/Freeman/Sanchez.

lacotomo
04-24-2012, 03:30 PM
I just don't see the point of using a premium pick on Weeden this year. I say the Browns stock up on playmakers on both sides of the ball. Should Colt not show any progress, then pick a QB in next years first, wherever the pick may be. I believe one more years with a dynamic receiver, dynamic back, and a premium line pick would be fair.

and I also want to say that it was hard for me to have the Browns pass on Richardson

Not sure if anyone mentioned this, but if we are in the top picks next year, Matt Barkley is out there....I never liked him, but supposed to be the best next year....

I like Richardson, then a O lineman or WR, but not a slot guy.

mcdlaxbonz13
04-26-2012, 10:49 AM
was curious to see how you guys see/want the first two rounds to go. Personally if it isn't a combination of RB, WR, OT with our first three picks I'll be not as thrilled. Actually the only two picks I don't want to see are Tannehill at 4 and Weeden in the first two rounds. I think with the 3 picks we have we need each one to be a guaranteed starter, then if Mccoy fails (and he probably will) then we should heavily pursue whoever the organization feels is a franchise qb in next years draft or if one magically becomes available in free agency. just my 2 cents what do you guys think

OhioJB
04-26-2012, 01:55 PM
How I want things to go:

I'll be happy if our #4 pick is either Richardson or Claiborne. Although I am a little nervous about the fact Richardson had a couple of ankle surgeries (in high school I believe), as well as what I heard described as minor knee surgery not long ago. With his punishing running style I just wonder how long he'll last before he has a serious injury to his lower body. Bottomline, I still want the team to draft him if he's available. Not sure about trading up to get him at #3 though if another team makes an effort to trade in front of us. Even with Richardson available at #4, Claiborne would be hard to pass up if they are both available. Imagining him paired up with Haden as our CB's is an attractive option.

If we get Richardson at #4, I wont be surprised if we take OT Jonathan Scott (or whatever his name is) at #22. We have to find a RT who can start right away, and Massie may not even make it out of the 1st round, let alone to pick 37 in the 2nd.

If Michael Floyd lasts until the mid-1st round, I wouldn't be shocked or disappointed if we traded up to take him. Reportedly many teams want to trade down this year.

With our first four picks I hope the draft falls so we can get quality starters at RB, CB, WR, and RT. And in rounds 4 or 5 it would be nice if we could find an upgrade at RG. Although I think Greco may beat out Lauvao anyway, so that may be a moot point.

I will say if we pick Blackmon at #4 or trade down, I'll be highly disappointed.

Draft day...enjoy it everyone.

OhioJB
04-26-2012, 02:11 PM
Something to keep an eye on: If we draft Richardson at #4 and CB Dre Kilpatrick falls to #22, MH and TH would have to be tempted to draft him. If that happens would you be ok with that selection at #22? Small possibility he'll be there, but some teams think he's more of a FS and he's had at least one shoulder surgery. I'd be ok with it but think they'd probably prefer to go OT or WR.

Iamcanadian
04-27-2012, 12:11 AM
Call me crazy, but this was the worst scenario that could have taken place on day 1 of the draft. We paniced at #4 and gave up a boatload of picks to move up pne place for a RB and at #22, we showed the result of missing out on RG111 by taking Weedon. I have to wonder if Lerner ordered Holmgren and Heckert to draft a QB in round 1.
Holmgren and Heckert obviously paniced with the trade up to #3. I think the failure to obtain the second pick in the draft completely unhinged the management team and the results for Brown's fans was a complete disaster on day 1 of the draft.

OhioJB
04-27-2012, 04:57 AM
I'm stoked about getting Richardson, and surprised at the reactions of some fans I heard on SportsTime Ohio the little I watched that station after the team made their two picks in the 1st.

Getting Richardson was monumental in my opinion. They had to give up picks, but they were only in the 4th, 5th, and 7th rounds. Going by the old trade chart (points) the team didn't give up that much. Pat Shurmur said they had been working the phones (not just on draft day), and knew other teams were trying to move up to get Trent. I was happy we did not have to give up a 3rd or higher, and in fact of our two 4th rounders we gave up the lower one. So the Browns moved up to get what I believe was the 2nd best player in the draft behind Luck, plus kept their next highest 4 picks.

When you think about the quality of talent in the 4th round in later, I don't think we gave up that much to get Trent. He'll be one of the best backs in the league. My only concern will be whether he'll be able to stay healthy.

Weeden I wasn't pleased with at #22, but I knew the team wanted him. I thought they'd take him either at #37 or wait to see if he slipped to the 3rd, but can understand why they took him at #22. We know QB's usually get drafted higher than they should, and they must have felt Weeden would probably get drafted before they picked again. He's a big strong QB with a good arm, so he does have talent. And the fact he had wins last year against the teams Luck, Tannehill, RG3, and Landry played for, gives me some hope he's good enough to help our team. Might take a year before he starts. This is a wait and see pick, but if it works out, he may be a late 1st round steal.

Next three priorities have to be WR, RT, and CB. OLB is another position of desperate need, especially with the likelihood Fujita will be suspended for Bounty Gate.

I honestly don't understand how anyone could be unhappy with our 1st round after getting Richardson. Jim Brown throws in a real stupid comment every now and then, this time referring to Richardson as an ordinary back. This is the same Jim Brown that criticized Walter Payton when he was still playing for being soft, because he ran out of bounds instead of taking on oncoming tacklers. More than anything I think Brown gets a little jealous of other RB's. Maybe he retired just a little too early.

SolidGold
04-27-2012, 11:26 AM
Sounds like McCoy will be shipped out of town or released. Looks like it's Weeden and Holmgren's pet Seneca Wallace.

The Browns still have a chance to redeem themselves but the Weeden pick so early was such a reach. He should of been picked in the third round at the earliest but it doesn't matter now.

mdmgrand
04-27-2012, 11:33 AM
As long as the Browns get a fifth rounder for McCoy, I'll be forced to come to terms with the Weeden pick. The Browns need to cross everyone off their board for the next two rounds that are not a WR, OG, and OT. They ruined the flexibility of this draft by giving up one too many picks to get Richardson and drafting Weeden early.

At 37: Glenn (OG/RT), Randle (WR), Hill (WR), Massie (OT), Silatolu (OG/RT), or Jeffrey (WR)

At 67: Allen (OT), Osemele (OT), Schwartz (OT), Brooks (OG), Givens (WR), Quick (WR), or Toon (WR)


I prefer to take a tackle at 37 and hope Quick or Givens falls to 67... It's possible but I bet they'll get snatched up in the second

keylime_5
04-27-2012, 11:42 AM
We may have "panicked" to move up to #3 to secure Richardson, but giving up a late 4th plus a 5th and 7th wasn't a big price to pay at all considering we had 13 picks going into the draft, including mulitple 4th, 5th, and 7th rounders. We won't miss those picks as much as we would have missed Richardson b/c it was reported that the Vikings and Buccaneers were going to make a trade if the Browns didn't step in and offer the deal they did. The front office felt Richardson was a guy we had to get (other alternative was Claiborne, and considering our needs on offense that is not an alternative we wanted to face). Good move to go up and secure Richardson. Pick we had to make.


As far as Weeden, not a big fan. He's 29 and I'm not sure he has that much upside. If he is a Matt Schaub or Matt Hasselbeck type for 6 to 8 years then that's great, it was a good pick. Not sure he can be much more than that. On the bright side I think he's a fairly safe bet to be a solid starting QB at the very least. I still think we could've gotten him at 37. I was so pissed (and apparently the Browns were too) that the Titans took our guy Kendall Wright two picks before 22. IMO we should've thrown in some mid to late rounders to move up the 2 spots to secure Wright and taken Weeden in round 2. Richardson/Wright/Weeden wouldve been a lot better than what we're gonna end up with (Richardson/Weeden/Hill or Randle?).


Anyways....moving onto tonight. I'm hoping for either Cordy Glenn, Rueben Randle, or Stephen Hill at 37. We have to take a WR in round two. If we take Glenn at 37, then we should trade up from 68 to get Alshon Jeffery, Mohamed Sanu, or Brian Quick. After that we should probably draft a slot receiver in round 4 or 5. Lots of good RTs available with Cordy Glenn, Mike Adams, Bobby Massie, Mitchell Schwartz, Jeff Allen, and Donald Stephenson. We should get one of those guys in round 2 or 3 tonight. I wouldn't mind see us trading down from 37 and getting a RT, then trading up from 68 to get a WR. Regardless we should come away from tonight with two more starters at those two positions.

If we do go with a curveball we could take Janoris Jenkins or LaVonte David, or even Bobby Wagner on the defensive side of the ball. Not a guarantee that we go offense at 37, though I think it's a safe bet. We could get a steal at 67 with Zach Brown as well, who the FO reportedly really likes.

mdmgrand
04-27-2012, 12:20 PM
As a fan who understands this is still rebuilding... I would love Jenkins or David in the early second. At what expense would this come though? Wide Receiver or Right Tackle? I'd take a tackle in this situation with next pick, since the draft is deep with receivers. Also because Weeden will need protection and Richardson will need holes.

If they do decide to go talent over need they should do something similar to this:

Round Two, Pick 37: Jenkins or David, add potential and playmaking ability to their improving defense.

Round Three, Pick 67: Jeff Allen or Mitchell Schwartz, both are experienced tackles who could come in and start right away at RT.

Round Four, Pick 100: Ryan Broyles or Greg Childs, these guys are two different types of receivers. Broyles would be phenomenal in the slot, and Childs could play on the outside. I believe Broyles will become a steal in this draft.


My draft philosophy is that within the first two rounds you take talented players with high ceilings, sometimes knowing that there may be a risk. After round two though, it's straight need. The Browns are just in a difficult position because they have gaping holes in important positions.

keylime_5
04-27-2012, 12:51 PM
I would definitely be happy with that scenario. Seems like we could get a solid starting RT in round 3. Definitly are some good WR options in round 3 and 4 like TY Hilton, Chris Givens, Ryan Broyles, DeVier Posey, Greg Childs, Keshon Martin, etc.

Brown Leader
04-27-2012, 12:52 PM
If we hadn't made the move up with those picks, Tampa would have moved up for much less. Like it's been stated we already had extra 4ths and 5ths so it's not drastic to make the move.

I took a closer look at Weeden trying to wrap my head around the pick. I wrote him off because of his age and hadn't really taken a good look at him. I watched another game in 10' and watched him again at the senior bowl. He's got a bigger arm then I've given him credit for. Ignoring age for the moment, as a NFL comparison I'd say he's similar to Jason Campbell, also a late first guy. I've used the Schaub comparison before but Weeden's arm is bigger.

But like Schaub I thought Weeden would fit best on a team that had good talent at the skill positions and be a good functional guy on a great offense. Def didn't expect they'd take him for a rebuilding team like ours but it seems like they're not trying to sit him, at all. Something about that doesn't sit right with me either, after they pumped up McCoy this post season. but...

Since he's the guy I think we've got to take the highest upside skill player available and hope a solid OL lasts into the 3rd.

1. Stephen Hill
2. Rueben Randle
3. Alshon Jeffrey
4. Dwayne Allen
5. Chris Givens

OL Schwartz, Bergstrom, Stephenson, Osemele or Sanders might be available at the top of the 3rd.

mdmgrand
04-27-2012, 02:17 PM
I agree with this first pick today being based on upside. The Browns can't afford to take a guy with a medium floor, medium ceiling. I hate to have my team swing and miss, but I want these talents:

Deep Speed of Hill
Sheer Size and Versatility of Glenn
Phenomenal Man Coverage of Jenkins
Elite Linebacking Range of David
The Tenacity and Chip on Upshaw's Shoulder

If the Browns can still get one of these five First Round Talents, they must take them over any one else.

I have a feeling we will see Heckert reach for a player who turns out to be solid, but not spectacular. This is not what I want this year, I want potential, and I believe the majority of the fan base is with me.

BuckeyeDan17
04-27-2012, 04:36 PM
Only two positives I take from this draft are:

1. We got a badass back.

2. I ******* hate the selection of Weeden so much that I am in no way interested in watching the 2012 season; however, the selection depicts that Heckert and the fat **** realize that McCoy isn't good enough. That's the only good thing from it.

Donnie D
04-27-2012, 04:46 PM
2. I ******* hate the selection of Weeden so much that I am in no way interested in watching the 2012 season; however, the selection depicts that Heckert and the fat **** realize that McCoy isn't good enough. That's the only good thing from it.

but the Browns already knew that McCoy isnt good enough. thats why they swung (but missed) on RG3. they didnt need to blow a pick on Weeden to know hes not the QB of the future.

JoeJoeBrown
04-27-2012, 11:00 PM
I want Holmgren and Heckert to just go away.

How idiotic are these guys? They reached on Weeden. They took an unathletic T from Cal on a reach when there were several better tackles available.
Then they took the worst pick of the draft so far in Hughes. He was ranked 534 on CBS Sportsline draft board. Almost every draftnik had him as a 7th rounder or an UDFA.

This kind of **** is inexcusable. How could they be this inept?

keylime_5
04-27-2012, 11:09 PM
Nothing wrong with the Schwartz pick. Everyone knew he was gonna be a top 50 pick at RT.

John Hughes being ranked low on CBS' draft board means nothing. He was a late riser who NFL teams knew about moreso than the media. The media thought Brandon Boykin and Alameda Ta'amu were second round picks and they are still on the board in round 4. Hughes was a guy who had 12.5 tfls and 5 sacks as a senior that an NFL front office and scouting department (who has had success drafting defensive linemen) thought was worth a late 3rd round pick to be a rotational DT. I'm not worried about that.

I can see having problems with Weeden b/c of his age. I think the front office knows that they aren't worried about his age b/c the odds dictate that the front office will be out of a job by the time Weeden retires, so it was kinda selfishly shortsighted in that regard.

No sexy picks for the Browns since taking Richardson, but I like that they took a good RT high in the 2nd round to solidify the core of their offensive line, and while we may not be huge fans of Weeden, taking him is an upgrade over McCoy and we will be a better offensive team immediately and in the next few years because of this draft. I would like to see us take a slot receiver in round four to help that unit even more. At this point we're drafting for depth and taking chances on high upside guys, b/c the middle and late rounds of every draft is a crapshoot no matter how good you are at drafting.

Joe Haden, TJ Ward, Jabaal Sheard, Phil Taylor, Greg Little, Trent Richardson, Mitchell Schwartz....I like those picks by H&H so far. Pinkston is looking like a decent pick as well, and I think Marecic will stick at fullback. Throw in Weeden and the team is a lot better than H&H found it so far...and it's very young up and down the roster and built through the draft so there isn't a bunch of bad money tied into overpaid free agents. We definitely need to spend more top picks on impact players like Canadian always says. Richardson is a great start. I would love to add an elite WR in the 2013 draft and we'll be ready to start competing hopefullly (if the Weeden pick pans out - that pick will make or break H&H). If Weeden is just average or worse, then H&H will likely get the boot and we'll start over at QB, but at least the roster won't need a complete overhaul like it did in 2010 and every year before that.

JoeJoeBrown
04-27-2012, 11:27 PM
Nothing wrong with the Schwartz pick. Everyone knew he was gonna be a top 50 pick at RT.

John Hughes being ranked low on CBS' draft board means nothing. He was a late riser who NFL teams knew about moreso than the media. The media thought Brandon Boykin and Alameda Ta'amu were second round picks and they are still on the board in round 4. Hughes was a guy who had 12.5 tfls and 5 sacks as a senior that an NFL front office and scouting department (who has had success drafting defensive linemen) thought was worth a late 3rd round pick to be a rotational DT. I'm not worried about that.

I can see having problems with Weeden b/c of his age. I think the front office knows that they aren't worried about his age b/c the odds dictate that the front office will be out of a job by the time Weeden retires, so it was kinda selfishly shortsighted in that regard.

No sexy picks for the Browns since taking Richardson, but I like that they took a good RT high in the 2nd round to solidify the core of their offensive line, and while we may not be huge fans of Weeden, taking him is an upgrade over McCoy and we will be a better offensive team immediately and in the next few years because of this draft. I would like to see us take a slot receiver in round four to help that unit even more. At this point we're drafting for depth and taking chances on high upside guys, b/c the middle and late rounds of every draft is a crapshoot no matter how good you are at drafting.

Joe Haden, TJ Ward, Jabaal Sheard, Phil Taylor, Greg Little, Trent Richardson, Mitchell Schwartz....I like those picks by H&H so far. Pinkston is looking like a decent pick as well, and I think Marecic will stick at fullback. Throw in Weeden and the team is a lot better than H&H found it so far...and it's very young up and down the roster and built through the draft so there isn't a bunch of bad money tied into overpaid free agents. We definitely need to spend more top picks on impact players like Canadian always says. Richardson is a great start. I would love to add an elite WR in the 2013 draft and we'll be ready to start competing hopefullly (if the Weeden pick pans out - that pick will make or break H&H). If Weeden is just average or worse, then H&H will likely get the boot and we'll start over at QB, but at least the roster won't need a complete overhaul like it did in 2010 and every year before that.

You certainly do love to rationalize away anything negative about the Browns or Buckeyes. This draft is poor.

keylime_5
04-27-2012, 11:32 PM
I'm not a fan of this draft so far (save for the Richardson pick) but I don't think it's any reason to call out Holmgren and Heckert for incompetency. They're not doing that bad of a job trying to build this team that had absolutely no talent whatsoever to work with when they took over. Savage brought in a bunch of overpaid guys who didn't fit Crennel's systems at all, then Mangini got rid of them and brought in a bunch of untalented, yet hardworking, over the hill, system veterans...then H&H got rid of all of those guys and pretty much completely started over in 2010. Getting rid of H&H means starting over again and remaining in the perpetual state of suck.

JoeJoeBrown
04-27-2012, 11:44 PM
I'm not a fan of this draft so far (save for the Richardson pick) but I don't think it's any reason to call out Holmgren and Heckert for incompetency. They're not doing that bad of a job trying to build this team that had absolutely no talent whatsoever to work with when they took over. Savage brought in a bunch of overpaid guys who didn't fit Crennel's systems at all, then Mangini got rid of them and brought in a bunch of untalented, yet hardworking, over the hill, system veterans...then H&H got rid of all of those guys and pretty much completely started over in 2010. Getting rid of H&H means starting over again and remaining in the perpetual state of suck.

You are just a much more positive person than myself. I can't look at this draft and see competence.

I see:
3 picks to move up one spot. Three wasted picks, because Tampa Bay wasn't jumping the Browns. They mismanaged this due to panic. I was fine with it at the time, but I'm not now.

Weeden is a short term solution and a slight improvement over McCoy. This was a reach pick. What team was going to take him before 37? Either move that pick up or move this pick back. Stupid stuff.

Schwartz was probably taken in an ok spot. I would have preferred Adams, or them moving around to take Glenn. I'm fine with this selection.

Hughes. You can't buy this late riser spin the Browns are throwing out. The dude wasn't getting drafted before the 6th. This was just a complete waste of a high round pick. I don't care if the guy ends up being good, you've got to at least be within the ball park on the NFL consensus on a guy's value. Take him later if you love him and take a higher value player earlier.

They've mismanaged 3 of 4 picks. One terribly. That is just poor execution, and I'd say that most of it is on Holmgren.

keylime_5
04-28-2012, 12:26 AM
Tampa was gonna jump us for cheap. At least that's what the Cleveland media was saying all day today, and I think they said it on NFLN as well. We gave up a late 4th, 5th, and 7th for him. Trifles when you consider we had 13 picks (including 2 picks in each of those rounds) and we were desperate for an elite offensive skill position player (of which Richardson is the only truly elite one available)

Agree about Weeden. If he's good (big if) then he'll be here maybe 6 or 7 years in his prime. He has a better arm and better size and can make all the throws unlike McCoy. I think he will be no better than Matt Schaub/Matt Hasselbeck/Jake Delhomme/Joe Flacco in the NFL. Not top 10 in the league like you need to win it all, but one of the 11-20 best QBs (middle of the pack, but a decent starter who can be part of a really good offense if you have good pieces around him).

Schwartz was an alright pick. Good value, fills a huge need. No more turnstile at right tackle for the first time since that one year Ryan Tucker was actually healthy. Would have preferred Adams, but he fell b/c of character issues and he had a poor combine. Cordy Glenn not a great fit for what we need. Soft OG with great measurables but not a great pass protector in tight spaces against speed rushers, we needed a better pass pro guy at RT. There is a reason he fell so far.

Hughes was a guy the team liked. A late third round pick. Look at all the other third round picks by other teams. A whole lot of them were guys not expected to go that high, but the actual teams know more about scouting players than the media. Kiper/McShay/Rang/Reuter/etc. don't have as much knowledge about the players as NFL teams whose jobs rely on picking players. Bunch of weird picks in the third round. You can't judge the actual value based on the media. The media thought Bruce Irvin was a late 2nd and he was a first rounder on most teams' boards, same with AJ Jenkins and Brian Quick. The media said Bobby Massie was a top 50 lock - he lasted until round 4. John Hughes was probably a 4th rounder on a lot of teams' board for all we know. Either way, if he pans out as a decent rotational DT it's all we expect of him. In late round 3 and beyond you aren't drafting guys to fill immediate needs, aka holes in the starting lineup. It's a crapshoot, you just go BPA at that point regardless of position.

So Richardson and Schwartz are keepers and are gonna be core pieces for years to come on offense. Weeden was a pick the fans hated. He's an upgrade at QB, but everyone says bad pick. Hopefully we are all wrong and he's not just an average QB, b/c we all know his career won't be that long. After we traded down to the bottom of the third my expectations dropped for who we picked. I was expecting a DT there to backup Rubin and Taylor, and that's what we got. We fans have no idea how good he'll be, but let's let it play out. T

he rest of the draft is the same story - take BPA and hope we get maybe one or two contributors/starters that turn out to be gems/steals. The law of averages says that with all those picks we should at least hit on one or two tomorrow, so chin up about the rest of the draft.

Tom Servo
04-28-2012, 10:42 AM
all I can say is with 13 picks I had very high expectations. then I remembered i'm a Browns fan and the universe hates me. oh well, at least we got Trent. maybe he can tote it 50 times a game til we get someone to throw it to

keylime_5
04-28-2012, 10:52 AM
I know, all these guys are gonna be busts so far b/c we picked people that we weren't expecting. http://www.neogeoforlife.com/images/smiley/rolleyes.gif

you do know we have only spent 4 picks and have 7 more to make right?

mdmgrand
04-28-2012, 07:29 PM
This draft was definitely up and down...

Loved:
- Richardson, obviously... Even with the trade up, I felt like the Browns made the right move, especially after I saw the Browns make a few questionable picks.
- Getting James-Michael Johnson, Billy Winn, and Trevin Wade on Day 3. I fully expect Winn to outplay the Browns' 3rd Rounder, John Hughes, and establish himself within the rotation. Johnson will fill out depth, as will Wade, who I thought would be picked in the 4th or the 5th.
- Filling two out of three big needs, RB and RT

Hated:
- Picking Weeden at 22. If they would've drafted Reiff there or Decastro and waited for him to fall to 37 I would have been much happier. If someone took him prior to pick 37, oh well, move along with McCoy for another year and take another solid offensive weapon for him to see if he makes strides. If McCoy faltered, then we inevitably would've been in the Top 5 again for next year's draft, and we could have taken a QB there.
- John Hughes... It's one thing to argue that we and the media do not know what the scouts and front office know, but when John Hughes was projected as a seventh rounder / free agent by everyone, there's something wrong. Some draftnik would have seen something.
- Not filling one out of the three big needs, WR....

Iamcanadian
04-28-2012, 08:58 PM
Tampa was gonna jump us for cheap. At least that's what the Cleveland media was saying all day today, and I think they said it on NFLN as well. We gave up a late 4th, 5th, and 7th for him. Trifles when you consider we had 13 picks (including 2 picks in each of those rounds) and we were desperate for an elite offensive skill position player (of which Richardson is the only truly elite one available)

Agree about Weeden. If he's good (big if) then he'll be here maybe 6 or 7 years in his prime. He has a better arm and better size and can make all the throws unlike McCoy. I think he will be no better than Matt Schaub/Matt Hasselbeck/Jake Delhomme/Joe Flacco in the NFL. Not top 10 in the league like you need to win it all, but one of the 11-20 best QBs (middle of the pack, but a decent starter who can be part of a really good offense if you have good pieces around him).

Schwartz was an alright pick. Good value, fills a huge need. No more turnstile at right tackle for the first time since that one year Ryan Tucker was actually healthy. Would have preferred Adams, but he fell b/c of character issues and he had a poor combine. Cordy Glenn not a great fit for what we need. Soft OG with great measurables but not a great pass protector in tight spaces against speed rushers, we needed a better pass pro guy at RT. There is a reason he fell so far.

Hughes was a guy the team liked. A late third round pick. Look at all the other third round picks by other teams. A whole lot of them were guys not expected to go that high, but the actual teams know more about scouting players than the media. Kiper/McShay/Rang/Reuter/etc. don't have as much knowledge about the players as NFL teams whose jobs rely on picking players. Bunch of weird picks in the third round. You can't judge the actual value based on the media. The media thought Bruce Irvin was a late 2nd and he was a first rounder on most teams' boards, same with AJ Jenkins and Brian Quick. The media said Bobby Massie was a top 50 lock - he lasted until round 4. John Hughes was probably a 4th rounder on a lot of teams' board for all we know. Either way, if he pans out as a decent rotational DT it's all we expect of him. In late round 3 and beyond you aren't drafting guys to fill immediate needs, aka holes in the starting lineup. It's a crapshoot, you just go BPA at that point regardless of position.

So Richardson and Schwartz are keepers and are gonna be core pieces for years to come on offense. Weeden was a pick the fans hated. He's an upgrade at QB, but everyone says bad pick. Hopefully we are all wrong and he's not just an average QB, b/c we all know his career won't be that long. After we traded down to the bottom of the third my expectations dropped for who we picked. I was expecting a DT there to backup Rubin and Taylor, and that's what we got. We fans have no idea how good he'll be, but let's let it play out. T

he rest of the draft is the same story - take BPA and hope we get maybe one or two contributors/starters that turn out to be gems/steals. The law of averages says that with all those picks we should at least hit on one or two tomorrow, so chin up about the rest of the draft.

I disagree, the Browns would have easily found a trading partner for them to secure Kalil and Minny knew it and had zero intention of risking losing Kalil by trading with Tampa. We would have had another 2nd rounder out of this scenario, picked Floyd then Martin at #22 and traded back up into round 1 using all the picks they wasted by moving up to #3 plus the 2nd rounder they got for the #4 pick.
I am shocked at the incompetence of our management team unless Lerner stepped in and forced decisions on them.
P.S. I see that Brewster didn't even get drafted, like I said, he showed at the Senior Bowl workouts that he had no sand in his pants and couldn't handle a bull rush, the kiss of death for an OLman.

PickedOffTwice
04-29-2012, 02:33 AM
So, here are my thoughts about the draft. Feel free to correct me, since I don't follow college ball at all and don't "evaluate" prospects much. In fact, please correct me if I am wrong at anything. (Posted these also on another forum, but would like to know what you guys think)

After day 2 (Most sports writers TRASHED us with draft grades at this point) :

1) From terms of positions drafted, the draft kind of makes sense so far. You have a QB and you support him with players that help with a good start, like a stud RB and a solid RT. You also add a DT since run defense over the middle was one of our biggest problems last year on defense. We have so many holes in our team that you have to start somewhere and ignore some needs. Fine. But why the heck would you ignore the biggest and most glaring need this team has? That is a WR that can catch some balls. In my opinion that weakness held us back more than anything last year. I personally would have looked for that at the LATEST with with our third pick at #37....

2) From terms of which players taken to fill the respective needs you gotta trust Tom Heckert. The guy has a history of picking good players, not only in Cleveland but also for years in Philly. If anything you can say about Heckerts tenure in Philly than that they were drafting well. As someone pointed out above: He made some "questionable" picks in the past years and each of them turned out fine players. So who do I trust more on this: Some amateur "scouts" and talking heads in the media or a guy who evaluates players for a living successfully for the last two decades?


General points:

3) Jim Brown said, Trent Richardson is an "ordinary" player. And to be honest with you, after watching "tape" (Youtube lol) on him, this is my gut feeling, too. I know he has all the numbers and all the experts love him. But: People say he is the "best RB to come along since Adrian Peterson". Go watch college highlights of Adrian Peterson and you will see a man amongst boys. He was so much better than everyone on the field in college, it was scary. Insane juke moves, a truck of a guy and a burst of speed that almost seemed inhuman. He JUMPS out of the tape like I have very rarely seen before. If you watch tape on Richardson, you just see a good RB. Not very fast. Not very shifty. Nothing spectacular. Nobody you can see stepping on the field from day 1 and change the game. This is just a pure gut feeling and I really hope he proves me wrong...

4) Heckert and Shumur said on their press conference that they think our group of receivers "will immediately be better the moment they play with Weeden". For one, this is one of the most harsh statements I have heard so far towards Colt McCoy. Weeden has the starting spot all but locked up. But aside from that: I don't see it. We have a very, very average group of receivers. You don't have to be a football genius to see this. There is no separation ever. And even if, they don't catch the ball. I hope our front office doesn't really believe what they said. Because if they do, we will pick before 9 p.m. next year, too....

Regarding Weeden:

5) Just watched some tape on him. .... lol, meaning I searched him on Youtube. But the man really DOES have a nice arm. He throws with authority, is very accurate and has velocity on every throw. Not seen one ball where I thought "This ball was so slow, in the NFL you would have 2 linebackers, a corner and a safety jump it before it comes anywhere near a receiver." And to be honest, as much as I liked McCoy, that was the case with nearly every single one of McCoys college passes. Looking at our starters from 1999 on, Weeden might be the best pure thrower. By far. And on top of that he is a good story. This is not taking into account his age, though... To be honest: I don't like the pick very much. BUT in reality you have to wait to judge it. If he has 5 or 6 productive years for us and maybe takes us to the playoffs a couple of times then it was a good pick.

OhioJB
04-29-2012, 09:05 AM
Interesting draft, although I had anticipated us drafting CB and WR earlier than we did. I give credit to the guys in charge for appearing to know what the heck they are doing on draft day. I can honestly say before they arrived, that some fans could have drafted as well or better than the likes of Butch Davis and Phil Savage. Mangini's draft was ok, especially since he traded down to pick up a much needed center in Alex Mack. But Heckert and Holmgren are very good at what they do. Now as a fan I can just sit back and see how the picks turn out. Drafting John Hughes in the 3rd was perplexing, but we'll find out if they are right about him.

NFL.com had the following ratings for our players. I'm assuming the scale goes up to 100.

1a) RB Trent Richardson - 93.5
1b) QB Brandon Weedon - 83.7
2) OT Mitchell Schwartz - 82.5
3) DT John Hughes - 48.2
4a) WR Travis Benjamin - 66.5
4b) ILB James-Michael Johnson - 69
5) OG Ryan Miller - 66.5
6a) OLB Emmanuel Acho - 57
6b) DT Billy Winn - 84
7a) CB Trevin Wade - 82.5
7b) FB/TE Brad Smelley - 48.5

Just judging by the ratings, fans have to be encouraged by the high marks for CB Trevin Wade (a position of dire need opposite Haden), and DT Billy Winn, two players who could be late round steals.

There'll be an interesting battle for backup DT spots on the roster. I'm not sure if Paxson is under contract still, but if he is I doubt he makes the team as he doesn't have good size. Shaefering on the other hand is a player I think most of us like. He's tough, has decent size, and is a competitor. I hope he makes the team, but if the two rookies beat him out so be it.

Just a wild guess that Smelley was drafted to compete with Marecic at FB. He's listed some places as a TE, but I'm guessing he'll be a ST's player and FB for us. Marecic did ok at FB, but he was not the punishing blocker some of us thought he might be last year after he was drafted. I didn't know much about him at the time, but after watching him play last season, he seems more of a tactician to me. Maybe I'm being unfair as he was a rookie, but regardless I'm glad he'll have competition this year.

OLB is a critical position this year to find starters for. They say both Johnson and Acho have played both inside and outside, but judging by size it appears to me anyways that Acho will be more suited for OLB, and Johnson for ILB.

Ideally, it'll be great if Ryan Miller beats out Lauvao at RG, but that's alot to expect out of a 5th rounder his rookie year. Schwartz though has to start from day one. The right side of that O-line was a big reason McCoy had to roll out so often to try to find an open WR.

WR, hmmm. Travis Benjamin is small and fast. He'll help out and be a contrast to the group we have now. Has the capability to help in the return game as well, as it's been obvious for the past two seasons that Cribbs has lost a half-step, if not a full one. He has muscled up enough that the extra weight makes him a tad slower. More than anything I was surprised we didn't take a WR earlier than we did, but at least we did get a speed guy who'll be able to blow the top off defenses if he can beat press coverage. Although he'll probably just be used as a slot guy.

Still some needs, but I like how some positions are getting some depth, like DL and OL, which is critical.

Richardson and Weedon are hopefully two cornerstones for future Super Bowl winning teams.

A couple days before the draft ESPN Classic had some games on for both Alabama and Oklahoma State. I recorded them just in case we drafted Weedon and Richardson. Since I don't watch alot of college football, I don't know exactly how good the two of them are, but will be watching those recordings to get a better idea.

About three and a half months to pre-season. Looking forward to it more than ever this time around.

Too tired this AM to correct any errors in grammer...

Brown Leader
04-29-2012, 06:30 PM
Browns scouting report on Weeden must have looked something like this:


per Alex Brown

Background/Character
An all-state baseball and basketball player in high school, Weeden was drafted in 2002 in the 2nd round by the New York Yankees. Bouncing around in the minor leagues for 4 years, Weeden's baseball career ended after suffering tendinitis in his right rotator cuff. Brandon chose to not undergo surgery, stopped playing baseball, and decided to walk-on at Oklahoma State to play football. Worked his way through the system, improving his strength and understanding of the game as a reserve until 2001 when he was named the starter. Weeden was a walk-on addition to the 2011 Oklahoma State golf team as well.

Mature, composed, and cool, Weeden handles media with confidence and ease. Living off campus and married, at age 28, Weeden still has money leftover from his initial signing bonus from 2002 which he put into savings. The definitive leader of his team, Weeden leads vocally and by example. Exudes an even keel demeanor, on-field composure, and a sense of confidence in his teammates. Very vocal at the line of scrimmage and very much in control of the high tempo offense. Holds nearly every OSU passing record, despite starting for just 2 seasons.


Athleticism
Former professional baseball player and walk-on golf player, Brandon Weeden is extremely coordinated and athletic. Possesses ideal height and size at the quarterback position, weighing slightly under 220 lbs and measuring around 6'4 height-wise. Well built frame, having good bulk in chest area and midsection, and strong armed. Utilizes decent knee flex and bend while settling into his pass drops; similar to Tom Brady in that he bounces in the pocket, with light feet and good balance. Also similar to Brady, is his tendency to get upright in the pocket and be unable to reset his feet thereafter when pressure arises.

Certainly won't run away from anyone, but does show good movement skills within the pocket and can move outside the pocket. Able to step up or slide out while keeping his balance; has foot speed to set and deliver ball very quickly. At age 28, Weeden is completely matured physically; never had surgery for shoulder injury that ended his baseball career, and simply switched over to football once he finished rehab. Will have to check out healthy at the combine and prove to teams that it won't be an issue later on in his career. Not much upside athletically but NFL teams know exactly what they are getting with Weeden.


Passing-Ability
Brandon WeedenWeeden has elite arm talent and can make every throw. Equally effective driving the football on intermediate to deep routes, as well as pinpoint ball placement on throws breaking inside or outside the numbers. Weeden is especially effective at driving deep post and deep fade patterns. Has the ability to file the ball over the 2nd level (linebackers) and under the 3rd level (safeties) of the defense on dig, post, and seam throws. Drives the ball into tight windows with authority.

Can change velocities without any lost accuracy, showing fairly good touch on underneath/crossing patterns. At times early in the season, struggled with his accuracy over the middle of the field, throwing behind his receivers or sailing throws; but improved placement and anticipation on throws over the middle of the field. Resets his feet, hips, and shoulders quickly from snap on bubble and screen throws to the outside. Throws with excellent placement in short passing tree, giving his receivers and backs the ability to create yards after the catch. In a limited amount of rollout throws, Weeden has done a nice job scanning the field, locating a target, and aligning his shoulders to the throw.


Passing-Technique
Fundamentally sound from separation to release, Brandon Weeden does an excellent job of setting his feet to the throw, transferring his weight while staying balanced, and finishing his throws. Weeden's light feet, constant balance, and bounce at the end of his pass drops, enable him to quickly reset his feet and deliver the football when he feels pressure. More specifically, he points his shoulders and elbow to his target and torques his left upper body all the way thru the throw. Really follows thru with his throwing hand exceptionally well, and remains balanced throughout his motion.

Throws with a ¾’s delivery and arm slot. Has quickened up his footwork and dropback, and also developed a sense of urgency within the pocket; though largely immobile, Weeden does show the ability to slide to either side or step up in a clean pocket. Though his mechanics are rock solid, Weeden does struggle with avoiding blitz pressure. Has developed tendency to force ball at his current read whenever blitz pressure gets to him; has quick enough release to get ball out before hit, but doesn’t always see where his throw is going. Pressure, especially thru the two A-gaps by stunting backers, adversely affects Weeden's decision making and, more importantly, his accuracy.


Passing-Instincts
Weeden deciphers post snap information quickly and decisively; able to progress through multiple reads with efficiency and always knows where his check down is. Displays a high football intelligence, and has already evidenced the ability to make full field reads. Recognizes coverages presnap, and interceptions usually come from a lack of anticipation; has to see where he's throwing. Very determined to push the ball downfield and hesitates to go straight to his checkdown receiver.

Tends to stare down his primary. Shows confidence in his receivers to win every one-on-one matchup, and will throw the football up for grabs in single man coverage. Will take chances with the football because he trusts his throwing skills and receivers so much; still improving as a progression passer and must learn to take the checkdown when its there. Has short term memory and quickly recovers from mistakes; isn't afraid to look down the barrel and take the big hit. Very underrated in terms of pocket presence and ability to feel the rush, Weeden has taken just 19 sacks in over 1000 pass attempts as a starter. Communicates very well at the line of scrimmage, and has veteran-like composure.


Summary
The biggest concern that will build momentum leading into the 2012 NFL Draft for Brandon Weeden, undoubtedly will be his age. As a 28 year old, a perceived inability to develop, and limited upside bring reason to doubt Weeden's long term success. Some have even gone as far to say he can only be a one-contract player. With a relatively poor track record of minor league baseball players in the NFL, ranging from Chris Weinke to Drew Henson, it is easy to dismiss Weeden's pro potential. However this could not be further from the truth. Weeden's willingness to stand in line for 2 seasons, learn the Oklahoma State system, develop physically, and learn the game of football should not be so easily overlooked. The former professional baseball player, has a rocket arm and throws the football as well as anyone in the country. Even more impressive than his arm talent, are Weeden's ideal throwing mechanics. The age factor in many ways, should be looked at as a positive attribute by teams in need of an immediate starter at quarterback. Married and having dealt with the rigors of the professional sporting life already, Brandon Weeden has the maturity of a seasoned veteran and the spotlight of the NFL will not be too much for him. He understands how to handle his money, will stay out of trouble, and gives a good face to any franchise looking for a solution.

Oklahoma State built the entire offense to fit Weeden's skillset -that is, pushing the ball vertically downfield, utilizing an up tempo style, and allowing Weeden full reign to toss the ball across the yard. Offensive coordinator Todd Monken said on ESPN's Year of the Quarterback special covering OSU's quarterbacks, "He can make every throw. There's not one throw he can't make. [...] He has touch to dump the ball down underneath. He can make intermediate throws with authority. He can throw the ball deep downfield, very accurately. It's really amazing how accurate he is at all the different throws he has to make." As stated previously Weeden has the skill set and mental makeup to be an immediate starter. Whichever team decides to take Weeden must adjust their offense to fit his skillset by utilizing a heavy dose of shotgun pass formations. Weeden rarely, if ever took snaps from under center snaps at Oklahoma State and will have to prove that he can transition to a pro style system. I do not see this as being a major cause for concern, and Brandon Weeden currently deserves early to mid 2nd round draft consideration.

Brown's comparison is Schaub. Scott says Kolb. I still see Jason Campbell. Not as a prospect coming out of Auburn but as he is now. Either way it strikes as a purely desperate move for a front office going into their 3rd year without a franchise guy. If he struggles this season I'm really curious if they pull the trigger on another QB high next year. They've thrown nothing but praise and confidence McCoy's way before making an abrupt about face after drafting this guy. not good.

WR. This is the same FO/coaching staff that evaluated this position last year and put Massaquoi and Robiskie atop the depth chart. Forgive me if I have zero confidence they know what their doing here as they insist this group is better than it appeared last season. Travis Benjamin. I'm going to take a closer look but what sticks out about him most is the worst gauntlet performance I can ever remember seeing at the combine. This for a team that led the league in drops. He's fast and coachable and before a closer look I think he showed dependable hands in games but his chances of making an impact this season aren't that far from Carlton Mitchell as a rookie. None.

Jim Brown's comments can be taken glass full or empty. On one hand, Richardson has been getting heaps and heaps of praise touting him as the best talent in the draft and an instant game changer, so comments from the goat like that might put a bit of a chip on him entering the league. Seems to me he already referenced it as his press conference. On the other hand, he might be spot on and Trip ends up simply being overhyped. I know when watching him I wasn't that impressed by his elusiveness behind the los or ability to make the first man miss. But his burst, open field running, long speed and pile push won me over.

mdmgrand
04-29-2012, 08:19 PM
Richardson does lack the speed that is needed to be a true difference maker, but he checks off in everything else. These are his best attributes:

- Amazing Balance
- Low center of gravity
- Passing game, whether receiving or blocking
- Immense strength

When you look at his balance, low center of gravity, and strength, you have a back who will probably make a few Pro Bowls provided he stays healthy. As a Cleveland fan... It is about time to get someone like that.


In regards to the receivers... After looking at the roster, with the addition of Travis Benjamin, I am willing to see what happens. Heres my analysis:

- Greg Little is made for this offense. He is built like a tank and he is extremely effective on slants and outs. After watching his catch log, I realized that Colt McCoy was limiting him, especially on outs. With Weeden, who has a significantly stronger arm, I see Little expanding his route tree and becoming a true number one receiver.

- Mohamed Massaquoi is not a special receiver by any means, but he does help as a deep threat. While not a blazer, he still finds himself open deep often. Once again I believe he was limited in the offense, partly because of McCoy. MoMass had a great rookie season and has declined steadily, but I do believe with Weeden he will look a lot better, and look like a number two.

- Josh Cribbs needs primarily screens, drags, and end arounds. I have never been impressed with his development as a receiver with traditional routes, get him the ball in space. They could also use him in the backfield, and get him three or four carries a game.

- Travis Benajamin will help because he is all speed, one thing this core lacks. His problem have been drops and the fact that he really is not a slot guy, even though is size is perfect for it.

The question after these four is who to keep. Jordan Norwood would be smart to keep, definitely as a slot guy. Also I'd keep Carlton Mitchell one more year to see if he develops into a deep threat with his size and speed.

One thing that is for sure with the Browns WR core is that they cannot drop the ball as much as they have. Another problem is that the coaching staff needs to throw it deep more. This will probably come with the fact that Weeden's arm is superior to McCoy's.

keylime_5
04-29-2012, 09:41 PM
I don't think Richardson's lack of sub 4.45 speed will prevent him from being a true difference maker. He ran anywhere between 4.47 and 4.54 at his pro day, so he has plenty of speed to run away from defenders in the open field once you consider these things:

-his vision
-his quickness
-his balance
-his strength/power

guys might run him down if they get a good angle, but that doesn't mean he'll get tackled, watch some game tape of him and you'll see this and agree. He will join the list of other elite NFL runningbacks who were "true difference makers" that didn't have elite speed. Emmitt Smith ran a 4.55 40 yard dash.

Iamcanadian
04-30-2012, 09:43 PM
I got no problem with the Richardson pick, in the end he could be a far better pro than Peterson. Peterson cannot catch a ball and is a total liability on pass protection and is almost never on the field in passing downs. He is strictly a 2 down back. Richardson is an excellent receiver and a tremendous blocker and can therefore play all 3 downs.
What I hate is that we gave up 4 picks for him when Minny had no intension of trading back past Cleveland and risk losing Kalil. That's what makes me mad.

Weeden is simply a desperation move by Holmgren/Heckert after they lost out on RG111. I think they promised a new QB to Lerner and had to produce one no matter the cost. The worst thing about the Weeden pick is that we are stuck with him for the next 2 seasons minimally and won't be looking for a true franchise QB next year like we should be.

Holmgren/Heckert are in their 4th season starting next year and we will be lucky to win 4 games again, I've never in my 55 years following the draft, seen a team so weak after the current management team has had 3 drafts go by, except the Lions under Matt Millen or other like GM's who were soon fired.

Heckert didn't run Philly's draft, Reid has always had final say on their picks and Holmgren went from HC to GM with zero experience running the ship, and I am begining to think they are just over their heads running the Browns. Just a thought .

kalbears13
04-30-2012, 10:52 PM
I got no problem with the Richardson pick, in the end he could be a far better pro than Peterson. Peterson cannot catch a ball and is a total liability on pass protection and is almost never on the field in passing downs. He is strictly a 2 down back. Richardson is an excellent receiver and a tremendous blocker and can therefore play all 3 downs.
What I hate is that we gave up 4 picks for him when Minny had no intension of trading back past Cleveland and risk losing Kalil. That's what makes me mad.

Weeden is simply a desperation move by Holmgren/Heckert after they lost out on RG111. I think they promised a new QB to Lerner and had to produce one no matter the cost. The worst thing about the Weeden pick is that we are stuck with him for the next 2 seasons minimally and won't be looking for a true franchise QB next year like we should be.

Holmgren/Heckert are in their 4th season starting next year and we will be lucky to win 4 games again, I've never in my 55 years following the draft, seen a team so weak after the current management team has had 3 drafts go by, except the Lions under Matt Millen or other like GM's who were soon fired.

Heckert didn't run Philly's draft, Reid has always had final say on their picks and Holmgren went from HC to GM with zero experience running the ship, and I am begining to think they are just over their heads running the Browns. Just a thought .

As much as I don't like the draft they just had, they have brought in a lot of good talent, so it's hard to. The team is very very young and it's way too early to say they've done a bad job.

*They traded three picks, also Homgren & Heckert have only been with the Browns for two seasons. I would much rather Holmgren make the football decisions than Lerner anyways.

PickedOffTwice
05-01-2012, 02:43 AM
As much as I don't like the draft they just had, they have brought in a lot of good talent, so it's hard to. The team is very very young and it's way too early to say they've done a bad job.

*They traded three picks, also Homgren & Heckert have only been with the Browns for two seasons. I would much rather Holmgren make the football decisions than Lerner anyways.

I can only second that.

First off, this is only the second offseason Holmgren and Heckert have right now. Last season was the first season they could run with "their" guys. And within one offseason they managed to build a nice defense. This offseason they focus on offense, using all their high picks on this side of the ball and also bringing in an OC.

Speaking of which, without Holmgren at the helm a team like Cleveland would have NEVER been able to bring in the guys we have so far: Heckert as GM, Jauron as DC and now Childress as OC. Only questionable hire so far remains Shumur, at least until proven otherwise.

I also applaud Lerner for finally recognizing that he is not interested in football enough to make good decision at the top. So he hired a proven guy to do so and paid him a lot of money for it. So far it seems to be the right direction.


It's not all violins and roses here, don't get me wrong. but every once in a while you have to see things from the positive side!

keylime_5
05-01-2012, 12:24 PM
yeah, after spending all their premium draft picks on defense the first two years (haden, ward, taylor, sheard) they added some good young talent on that side of the ball and finally decided to address the offense after ignoring it completely aside from drafting Greg Little with a late first rounder they got from the Julio Jones trade. Richardson and Schwartz will make the offense a lot better right away. Weeden will as well, though we don't know how good he'll be yet. Hopefully he turns into a really good pro bowl caliber QB. If that happens then it makes the fact that he is 28 years old a little less significant.

Also I just gotta commend the mid and late round picks the team made. Some good value that really adds depth to our defense. A couple potential future starters in there as well. People criticize the John Hughes pick but one guy said yesterday that Hughes was a late riser and the Saints were planning on picking him two picks after the Browns took him. Billy Winn, Trevin Wade, Emmanuel Acho, and especially James-Michael Johnson were great values. Johnson has starter potential, might fit best at MLB (if Jackson gets hurt again). Smelley could be our starting fullback if he beats out Marecic. Benjamin adds speed and field stretching ability that we desperately need. He might be too small to play in the NFL, but I think it was a calculated risk in round 4.

Brown Leader
05-01-2012, 06:33 PM
I'm curious what the long term plans are for Weeden. His major weakness is his ability to execute against a heavy rush. They clearly want him to play this season but if he struggles to beat out Colt or doesn't play as well as they'd hope is it out of the question they consider another QB next year?

Their intention this year was to upgrade the QB position, now if it doesn't come up to the level of play they want, wouldn't it seem logical that they would try to upgrade again next season? I've been looking at Ok St. games and I'm impressed with Weeden's arm and accuracy and he definitely looks like a better talent then Colt but he does become a different guy when the rush gets to him. I'm not sure it's possible to accurately grade a guy as a rookie, but, given his age, if he doesn't look like the kind of guy that can carry the team to at least a division championship, I think it makes sense to draft a high upside QB that may need some development, high next year if available.

It would be uncommon but with the new cba and the unusual circumstance of a 30yr old 2nd year guy, why not? If they're in a position next draft to take Logan Thomas or Tyler Bray in the first or even E.J. Manuel in the 2nd, should they pass? Or if we end up with the #1 overall, (seen our schedule?) are all bets off?

Obviously my prospects for the upcoming season are pretty low. Honestly, I see 3-4 Ws tops. I suppose the best scenario would be, even if we lose a ton, for Weeden to actually look pretty good, allowing us to trade back St. Louis Rams fashion and stock pile picks.

Iamcanadian
05-02-2012, 12:42 PM
I'm curious what the long term plans are for Weeden. His major weakness is his ability to execute against a heavy rush. They clearly want him to play this season but if he struggles to beat out Colt or doesn't play as well as they'd hope is it out of the question they consider another QB next year?

Their intention this year was to upgrade the QB position, now if it doesn't come up to the level of play they want, wouldn't it seem logical that they would try to upgrade again next season? I've been looking at Ok St. games and I'm impressed with Weeden's arm and accuracy and he definitely looks like a better talent then Colt but he does become a different guy when the rush gets to him. I'm not sure it's possible to accurately grade a guy as a rookie, but, given his age, if he doesn't look like the kind of guy that can carry the team to at least a division championship, I think it makes sense to draft a high upside QB that may need some development, high next year if available.

It would be uncommon but with the new cba and the unusual circumstance of a 30yr old 2nd year guy, why not? If they're in a position next draft to take Logan Thomas or Tyler Bray in the first or even E.J. Manuel in the 2nd, should they pass? Or if we end up with the #1 overall, (seen our schedule?) are all bets off?

Obviously my prospects for the upcoming season are pretty low. Honestly, I see 3-4 Ws tops. I suppose the best scenario would be, even if we lose a ton, for Weeden to actually look pretty good, allowing us to trade back St. Louis Rams fashion and stock pile picks.

Pretty tough mentally for Holmgren/Heckert to admit they made a huge mistake in drafting Weeden after 1 season and take another QB at #1 next draft. I think they will stick to the Weeden experiment for at least 2 seasons. After all, if Weeden flops, they are likely out of their jobs which makes giving up on him even more unlikely after 1 season.

Don't get me wrong, I think Weeden has a lot of talent, it's his age and shoulder problems which worry me. I can only see a 6 year career for him and it will take 3 seasons before he is really at his peak, which means we have a 3 year window for success if he comes through. Not the way I would build my franchise and not the way any team I have ever seen do it.

It is a pretty scary proposition if you ask me. If they had taken him in round 2, they could easily justify drafting another QB next season should he not come through as they hoped, but by taking him at #22, they have put all their eggs into his basket for better or worse.

keylime_5
05-02-2012, 03:50 PM
Yeah, I don't think they draft a QB next season even if they get the top overall pick. Of course there are scenarios where it could happen (like if the top pick is a guy with a can't miss grade that they love and Weeden totally completely bombs this year a la Jimmy Clausen).....but don't count on us drafting a QB in round one in 2013.

I'm not so much worried about Weeden being a bust - he has a great arm with good size and a lightning quick release and he's smart and mature - I think he'll do fine, even against good pass rushes because his release will help him like it helped other less athletic QBs like Peyton Manning, Dan Marino, and Tom Brady. I'm more worried about him just being a good not great QB like Hasselbeck or Schaub who will only have about 6 good years in him. Good but not great to put us over the top.

Brown Leader
05-02-2012, 04:10 PM
If we're sitting with the #1 or #2 pick next year and Logan Thomas is available, I think it would be extremely hard to pass. Off the charts Newton like skill set that ideally would need at least a season to be ready and by that time Weeden would be 31. In essence Weeden becomes a high end bridge for 2-4 seasons, depending on how good he is. We wouldn't have to worry about the QB position for the next 8-10 years.

Our schedule is brutal. If we somehow manage a nice season this year then Weeden and the coaching staff will have more than proven themselves.

Brown Leader
05-02-2012, 04:30 PM
I checked out NC State v Cincinnati from this past season to look at John Hughes. First impression, he looks like Tyson Alualu. He strictly played as a 2 down NT. He held his ground well against the double team and helped Wolfe to go one on one for pressure and sacks. Great motor in his limited snaps. Pretty good feet for his size and really long arms.

He had a good game, snuffing out the run a few times and getting pressure in Glennon's face at least twice forcing an incomplete and an interception. I can see how he'll fit. Looks like a comparable physical talent to Brandon Thompson and Ta'Amu but isn't as quick/explosive off the snap. I'd assume our guys rated him as a better run defender though.

Iamcanadian
05-02-2012, 07:51 PM
I checked out NC State v Cincinnati from this past season to look at John Hughes. First impression, he looks like Tyson Alualu. He strictly played as a 2 down NT. He held his ground well against the double team and helped Wolfe to go one on one for pressure and sacks. Great motor in his limited snaps. Pretty good feet for his size and really long arms.

He had a good game, snuffing out the run a few times and getting pressure in Glennon's face at least twice forcing an incomplete and an interception. I can see how he'll fit. Looks like a comparable physical talent to Brandon Thompson and Ta'Amu but isn't as quick/explosive off the snap. I'd assume our guys rated him as a better run defender though.

I cannot believe that for 1 minute. Both of those guys are 'A' run stoppers who are non existent as pass rushers. If Hughes is better then it must be because he can be a better pass rusher.

Iamcanadian
05-02-2012, 07:57 PM
If we're sitting with the #1 or #2 pick next year and Logan Thomas is available, I think it would be extremely hard to pass. Off the charts Newton like skill set that ideally would need at least a season to be ready and by that time Weeden would be 31. In essence Weeden becomes a high end bridge for 2-4 seasons, depending on how good he is. We wouldn't have to worry about the QB position for the next 8-10 years.

Our schedule is brutal. If we somehow manage a nice season this year then Weeden and the coaching staff will have more than proven themselves.

Logan Thomas didn't start playing QB till his junior year in High School. He is terribly raw at this point and will need years to come up to snuff even if he is talented enough.
Holmgren/Heckert would look rather foolish and stupid if they draft a QB in round 1, 2 years in a row, you'd really have to question their skill at assessing talent if that came to pass. We are hardly in a position to be wasting a 1st round pick on 2 QB's, I think it is just wishful thinking to even suggest this scenario.

keylime_5
05-03-2012, 05:36 PM
Logan Thomas doesn't impress me that much. Not a great passer, especially in the accuracy department. Very raw and the Va Tech passing offense struggled last year when they played decent defenses (and Clemson, who isn't a decent defense, haha). I like Barkley, Wilson, Bray, and Geno Smith better....at least at this point. It doesn't matter though, we won't pick a QB next year after taking Weeden.

Brown Leader
05-03-2012, 11:40 PM
I guess Thomas is my man crush heading into this season. I'm just not sure of the viability of Weeden being a long term solution at his age. Thomas is raw, yes, I'm just projecting what kind of development he'll show by next April.

I cannot believe that for 1 minute. Both of those guys are 'A' run stoppers who are non existent as pass rushers. If Hughes is better then it must be because he can be a better pass rusher.

He's got considerably longer arms then those two and was taken off the field on passing downs. Holds his ground better then Thompson and finds the ball better than Ta'Amu. If they didn't like him for his run stopping potential then it's a mystery to me.

keylime_5
05-04-2012, 12:17 AM
It's not all about being a situational pass rusher either. It's about keeping Taylor and Rubin fresh. Those two played way too many snaps last year. Also, if your starter goes down, I'd rather have a solid all around DT who can fill in that what we had last year (though I think Paxson and Schaefering did an surprisingly admirable job). We were lucky we didn't have injuries last year on the D-Line. You can't have too many good defensive linemen. With John Hughes and Billy Winn in this draft I think we really upgraded our DT depth should injuries occur........and having a fresher Rubin and Taylor will make our run defense a lot better because in the fourth quarter last year at times our defense got worn down (week one against Cincinnati is the prime example - they shut down Benson all game until the Green fluke TD and then Benson ran at will).

Johnson and Acho give us better linebacker depth as well. We didn't really have anything behind our starters last year except Maiava, because Titus Brown (who was great in training camp/preseason) was hurt most of last year and every other backup was an UDFA scrub. maiva and brown weren't that special anyways, I think Johnson can be a starter in the NFL for a long time potentially. Coaching staff said he reminds them of Takeo Spikes.

Brown Leader
05-08-2012, 05:14 PM
Browns President Mike Holmgren Says Drafting Brandon Weeden Was the Team’s “Plan B” (http://sportsradiointerviews.com/2012/05/08/mike-holmgren-cleveland-browns-brandon-weeden-nfl/)

Tom was fully on board, particularly after the receivers that we kind of coveted went. We always knew we liked Weeden now how do we do this? If Brandon would’ve been younger, people kind of got off him a little bit I think because of his age, because he’s 28-years-old. He’s in great shape and as he said to me in my interview with him, ‘Coach I’m not hurt or I haven’t done anything. I’ve got ten years in me good.’ By the time he’s got his ten years I’m 75-years-old and I will be okay.”

Great. Sound draft strategy there.

Brown Leader
05-09-2012, 01:44 PM
Did Browns reach with Hughes at No. 3? (http://www.cantonrep.com/browns/x1809310761/11-new-orange-helmets-Did-Browns-reach-with-Hughes-at-No-3?zc_p=0)
PFW’s Nolan Nawrocki erased Hughes as a potential steal with this blunt summary:

“Plodding, clogging, two-down nose tackle with limited upside. Could compete for a reserve job, but is the type you look to replace.”

Someone was terribly wrong about Hughes. Naturally, general manager Tom Heckert is convinced it is not him.

“John is a big, powerful, tough guy,” Heckert said. “I think he’s really good.

The guess is he will be groomed to be the No. 3 man in a tackle rotation and at first will play 15 to 20 snaps a game, mostly on running downs.

“I’m more of a run guy,” Hughes said. “I use my hands well to get off blocks.

Brown Leader
05-09-2012, 02:23 PM
wow. These guys are generally critical.

C.H.F.F. - Overview: The Cold, Hard Football Facts generally frown upon teams that chase running backs so high in the draft – especially at the price the Browns paid: giving up four picks to move up one spot on the ladder to a team not likely to take Richardson from them. The reality is that the difference between a super-elite running back and a your everyday ordinary free agent RB is actually pretty slim as measured by average per attempt – so running backs are often largely overvalued. It was one of the worst moves of the draft, actually: almost as bad as the Falcons chasing Shiny Hood Ornament Julio Jones in the 2011 draft.

With that said, Cleveland pretty much had a banner draft. Richardson does in fact fill a statistical need. The Browns last year were 31st running the football, averaging just 3.7 YPA. So there is statistical justification for the decision to draft Richardson, even if he was overvalued.

Plus, the Browns also drafted a potential franchise quarterback later in the first round to attempt to find a solution to their biggest problem in 2011, a dreadful passing attack. Quite frankly, the 1985 Bears would have been lucky to do much better than 4-12 with the same passing agame Cleveland put on the field last year.

Weeden is interesting for two reasons. One, he’s a dinosaur by the standards of a rookie pro athlete. He turns 29 in October, which makes him older than 2010 Super Bowl champ and 2011 NFL MVP Aaron Rodgers of Green Bay and just a year younger than Pittsburgh’s two-time Super Bowl champ Ben Roethlisberger. And two, Weeden produced quite a season in 2011. He lit up the Big 12 with record numbers while knocking off each of the three QBs taken ahead of him: Ryan Tannehill, Robert Griffin III and Andrew Luck in the Fiesta Bowl. Pretty intriguing.

Meanwhile, Cleveland still drafted more players in 2012 (11) than any other team and took big steps to shore up the biggest weakness on a relatively sold defense: a front unit that ranked No. 26 on our Defensive Hog Index.

Fillability Grade: A-

ArtModel
05-09-2012, 03:37 PM
An injury-prone running back....missed his entire soph. year of high school with a serious ankle injury. The facts on 1st rd rbs...
since 02
1st rd rbs--28
voted to pro bowl--9 (32%)
average draft position--18.2
ave yds season--729
ave yds rb picked 1-10--741
ave yds rb picked 11-20--665
ave yds rb picked 21-32--746
1st rd rbs 2011 pro bowl 0...wall street journal

A 29 year old qb throwing from the spread in college...in effect trading phil taylor and weeden for julio jones..Holmgren pulled rank on heckert to take him, so just as reid ran it in philly, holmgren runs it here.
Reach for Blackmon or take Claiborne
Reiff (sp?) at 22
ga tech wr at 37

keylime_5
05-09-2012, 03:51 PM
http://i675.photobucket.com/albums/vv114/MrGoofy1337/TROLL-ALERT-GET-THE-FORUM-MODS.jpg

Iamcanadian
05-10-2012, 10:52 AM
An injury-prone running back....missed his entire soph. year of high school with a serious ankle injury. The facts on 1st rd rbs...
since 02
1st rd rbs--28
voted to pro bowl--9 (32%)
average draft position--18.2
ave yds season--729
ave yds rb picked 1-10--741
ave yds rb picked 11-20--665
ave yds rb picked 21-32--746
1st rd rbs 2011 pro bowl 0...wall street journal

A 29 year old qb throwing from the spread in college...in effect trading phil taylor and weeden for julio jones..Holmgren pulled rank on heckert to take him, so just as reid ran it in philly, holmgren runs it here.
Reach for Blackmon or take Claiborne
Reiff (sp?) at 22
ga tech wr at 37

I don't mind the Richardson pick at all although I agree that 1st round RB's have had problems but it has been about injuries most of the time. Richardson has a shot to be very special and a potential HoF RB. What bothered me was the picks we gave up when he would have been there at #4.

However if I was drafting, I would have taken Blackmon at #4, Martin at #22 and used the picks we gave Minny + #37 to trade back up for Weeden. With Weeden at QB, Martin at RB and Blackmon at WR, we at least would have had a shot at having a solid offense within 2 years.

IMO, the Browns, namely Holmgren, thought he had RG111 in the bag and when that didn't workout, he had no fall back plan, panicked and was fooled into giving up 4 picks for Richardson, then still unhinged, took Weeden praying for the best, after all, if he really loved Weeden why go after RG111 in the first place.

We had all better pray Weeden pans out because if he flops, the franchise will be set back a minimum of 6-7 years and Holmgren/Heckert will be long gone and another GM will put another rebuilding plan into action. It's a pretty frightening scenario for me, to see my beloved Browns become the laughing stock of the NFL.

ArtModel
05-11-2012, 12:17 AM
Look at other high rbs, my man. LT, Ricky Williams (very high), and AP. Lt and williams were 5th overall, with AP being 7th overall. Richardson did not work the combine, or bama's pro day due to knee surgery (not his 1st).
From a top sports website:"Our [doctor] said he was going to need a solid No. 2 with him," a scout told me. "He's 25 carries, not 35. He's not [Adrian] Peterson." And we took him #3.
As far as Weezin (due to age) the oldest ever 1st round pick...He is not a stud talent who just happended to be older, he is a product of the spread system with excellent skill positon players like Blackmon. If he learns the pro style in the next few years he will be 32. The biggest concern when drafting him was Holmgren keeping his job for short term stopgap. Holmgrem @ 10 mill?

ArtModel
05-11-2012, 12:19 AM
10 Million to get swindled by the vikings?

Brown Leader
05-11-2012, 01:06 AM
Tampa traded their 2nd and moved back from the top of the 4th to the bottom to get Doug Martin. You two really think they weren't ready to trade up for less than us? And we still had the most picks in the draft, c'mon.

Iamcanadian
05-11-2012, 01:30 PM
Tampa traded their 2nd and moved back from the top of the 4th to the bottom to get Doug Martin. You two really think they weren't ready to trade up for less than us? And we still had the most picks in the draft, c'mon.

If the Vikings traded with Tampa Bay, they seriously risked losing Kalil who they obviously coveted even with all the smokescreens saying otherwise. Cleveland could easily have traded the #4 pick with someone in the top 10 who also wanted Kalil and got a minimum of a 2nd rounder thrown in and maybe more.
Martin and Wilson were still 1st round talents at RB and could be had with the 22nd pick.
It isn't that Tampa Bay didn't want Richardson, it is the fact that Minny wanted Kalil that made any trade with Tampa very dangerous for the Vikings and I see no way they would have done it. They sent out false smokescreens indicating that they would pass on Kalil and Holmgren/Heckert fell for it hook, line and sinker.
The simple fact is that they made thje trade with Atlanta last year to ensure they had the ammunition to get RG111 but tried to play hardball with the Rams and it backfired.
IMO, Holmgren/Heckert had a miserable post season and the Browns could pay for it for years to come.

ArtModel
05-15-2012, 07:05 PM
.The simple fact is that they made thje trade with Atlanta last year to ensure they had the ammunition to get RG111 but tried to play hardball with the Rams and it backfired.
IMO, Holmgren/Heckert had a miserable post season and the Browns could pay for it for years to come.

Amen. We were around $19 mil under the cap pre draft, we still have to be right up there in the top 5. Can it be rolled into next year? I know most free agents are overpaid (Dan Snyder) but isn't there a cap floor?

Iamcanadian
05-17-2012, 06:40 PM
Amen. We were around $19 mil under the cap pre draft, we still have to be right up there in the top 5. Can it be rolled into next year? I know most free agents are overpaid (Dan Snyder) but isn't there a cap floor?

There is now a hard cap floor so a certain minimum must be spent this year. I don't remember the figures but it is pretty high which explains why Buffalo spent a fortune on Williams in FA. They were under the cap by a wide margin for years with a notoriously cheap owner.
So, no, most of it must be spent this year and only a minimal amount can be rolled over.