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the new jesus
11-09-2011, 05:00 PM
Early this summer, Green Bay Packers "tight end" Jermichael Finley offered a preview of why we should consider putting his position in quotes. Speaking to reporters after a workout in Minneapolis, Finley said he wanted to line up as a "standup" player as often as possible rather than in a three-point stance on the line of scrimmage.

"I'm not going to sugarcoat it," Finley said at the time. "I think [from] a two-point, I can get on the linebacker quicker, I can get on the safety quicker and it's a win-win for me and [quarterback Aaron Rodgers]."

That plan could take on additional meaning if a scenario suggested by Pro Football Talk's Mike Florio plays out. If the Packers decide to place the franchise tag on him this winter, as we discussed Tuesday, Finley could argue he is a receiver rather than a tight end -- a distinction that could be worth nearly twice as much in 2012 compensation.

According to our friends at Pro Football Focus, Finley has lined up slightly more this season an outside or slot receiver -- in the "standup" position -- than he has as a traditional tight end in a three-point stance. The numbers:

2-point: 216 of 419 snaps
3-point: 203 of 419 snaps

Many players line up occasionally at other positions, most notably running backs who split out as receivers. But it gets more interesting when "occasionally" crosses over to "the majority." As we discussed, the franchise tag number for tight ends in 2012 is expected to be between $5.4 and $5.6 million. Florio projects the franchise number for receivers as about $9.5 million.

So there is an obvious financial impact to how the Packers, Finley and the NFL identify his position in terms of the franchise tag. But for now, at least, it's simply interesting to note that on a percentage basis, Finley is lining up more often as a receiver than as the position he's listed at. It's worked so far: Finley is tied for third among NFL tight ends with five touchdown receptions.

http://espn.go.com/blog/nfcnorth/post/_/id/34019/technically-jermichael-finley-is-a-wr

This is a really interesting situation regarding the franchise tag. How do you guys think it will play out in situations like this? How do you think it should play out?

mqtirishfan
11-09-2011, 05:03 PM
I wouldn't be surprised to see Finley in a lot of 3-point stances if/when the Packers clinch homefield advantage.

jth1331
11-09-2011, 05:04 PM
http://espn.go.com/blog/nfcnorth/post/_/id/34019/technically-jermichael-finley-is-a-wr

This is a really interesting situation regarding the franchise tag. How do you guys think it will play out in situations like this? How do you think it should play out?

the team lists him as a tight end, he's a tight end. When you are talking about making $5 million already, and complaining about not making more, I don't give a flip.

phlysac
11-09-2011, 05:11 PM
It's not unprecedented. Terrell Suggs, I believe, argued an won that he deserved Defensive End money as a Franchise player over receiving Outside Linebacker money.

CC.SD
11-09-2011, 05:14 PM
You are what your record says you are, and we let em off the hook! Playoffs?

Rosebud
11-09-2011, 05:28 PM
the team lists him as a tight end, he's a tight end. When you are talking about making $5 million already, and complaining about not making more, I don't give a flip.

That's 4 million he can argue he's earning spending more time as a receiver than a tight end. It's not a position I'd disagree with.

Caulibflower
11-09-2011, 06:16 PM
He's not a wide receiver. He's a spread TE.

niel89
11-09-2011, 06:50 PM
It's not unprecedented. Terrell Suggs, I believe, argued an won that he deserved Defensive End money as a Franchise player over receiving Outside Linebacker money.

In that case they eventually agreed to just split the difference. I think the same thing happens here. Give him the extra couple million and call him what ever you want.

CC.SD
11-09-2011, 07:00 PM
they should just sign him anyway.

fenikz
11-09-2011, 10:43 PM
He would certainly win this case and be awarded WR money

jackalope
11-10-2011, 11:54 AM
they should just sign him anyway.

I would say that's the most likely scenario. But, if it comes down to the franchise tag, which Finley has said he'd be okay with, he would probably end up getting a split like Suggs did.

SuperPacker
11-10-2011, 01:28 PM
Why would he get receiver money?! If he was a WR he wouldn't be lining up in the 3 point half the time would he! When was the last time you saw Larry Fitzgerald lining up next to the tackle?

jsa230
11-10-2011, 01:39 PM
^^^^What he said . .

No way hes not signed to a long term contract. The Packers are going to lock this guy up for at least 3 years. 3 Years 15 million. I just dont see finley getting tagged. Jones is back bc AR wanted him back, AR wants finley, AR gets what he wants. (kidding 'bout the last part . . kind of)

Complex
11-10-2011, 01:42 PM
^^^^What he said . .

No way hes not signed to a long term contract. The Packers are going to lock this guy up for at least 3 years. 3 Years 15 million. I just dont see finley getting tagged. Jones is back bc AR wanted him back, AR wants finley, AR gets what he wants. (kidding 'bout the last part . . kind of)

Your crazy if he signs a 3 year 15 million dollar deal.

jth1331
11-10-2011, 02:13 PM
Zach freakin Miller just signed a 5 year, $34 million contract with $17 million guaranteed.
Finley is going to get PAID.
Can't believe the Seahawks paid that much for Miller. Based on that Finley should get $10 mil per year for crying out loud.

Caulibflower
11-10-2011, 02:56 PM
I think Finley's overvaluing himself. He's not that important to the Packer's offense.

the new jesus
11-10-2011, 03:08 PM
I think Finley's overvaluing himself. He's not that important to the Packer's offense.

How can he be overvaluing himself when we don't know what type of contract he's requesting?

jsa230
11-10-2011, 03:15 PM
Your crazy if he signs a 3 year 15 million dollar deal.
Maybe 4 years 22-25 million is more realistic.
All these guys could have got more money on the open market. Finley has said he wants to stay Packer.

Jordy - 4 year 14 million
Jones - 3 year 9.4 million
Jennings - 4 year 30 million P (including incentives)

Vernon Davis - 5 year 37 million (including incentives)
Antonio Gates - 5 year 36 Million
Dallas Clark - 6 year 36 Million

Finley is a beast, but GB did win the SB without him. I want him back but he is going to have the give the Packers a discount.

Caulibflower
11-10-2011, 03:19 PM
How can he be overvaluing himself when we don't know what type of contract he's requesting?

You're right, I guess your OP didn't really say what he was asking for. But it seems to be almost common knowledge that Finley sees himself more as a receiving threat than an "all-around" tight end. And in today's game, ironically, that focus on receiving, while playing on a receiving team, would likely make him think of himself as being closer to a wide receiver than a traditional tight end. And he is second on the team in receptions. But if we're talking about a franchise tag, I definitely think he's got to be considered a tight end, albeit a very athletic one who can do a variety of things for you. But that doesn't mean his worth to his offense is going on $10 million a year, or whatever the franchise tag for receivers is going to come out to. Or even if he is an elite tight end, and his true market value, what other teams would be willing to pay for him, is a figure that looks like wide receiver money, I don't think the Packers will want to pay that to him. I don't know. My feeling on Jermichael Finley is that he wants to get paid more than he wants to win championships, which may or may not be fair of me to say. I guess I'm saying it's easy for me to see him leaving the Packers to play for a team who thinks they're getting a hybrid-type playmaker, but then that team realizes he was benefiting quite a lot from playing with several other Pro Bowl-caliber playmakers and maybe isn't the type to take a #1 role on an offense. There's only a couple of tight ends who've ever been able to do that, and I'm not ready to say Jermichael Finley is the quality of player Antonio Gates or Tony Gonzales are/were in their primes. Those are tight ends who could've really justified being paid like top wideouts, because that was their value to their offenses. Just don't really see that kind of impact with Finley.

nepg
11-10-2011, 03:24 PM
When I played FOF, I'd tag the K, P, FB, or TE 100% of the time. Cheapest and most effective use, imo. Guys at those positions aren't going to hold out and demand a new contract, typically (if they do, it doesn't hurt your team for them to miss some time).

MetSox17
11-11-2011, 02:43 AM
He's not gonna give the Packers a discount, and they won't wanna pay him what he will command. He already has a ring, and the Packers won it without him, so they really don't need each other. I think he signs for 5/35 (ish) back home with Houston.

Caulibflower
11-11-2011, 03:11 AM
He's not gonna give the Packers a discount, and they won't wanna pay him what he will command. He already has a ring, and the Packers won it without him, so they really don't need each other. I think he signs for 5/35 (ish) back home with Houston.

You think he's going to give them more production that Owen Daniels already does? Or is he going to be a free agent pretty soon, too?

ImBrotherCain
11-11-2011, 07:57 AM
Owen Daniels is injured pretty regularly. I don't know about his contract though.

keylime_5
11-11-2011, 11:00 AM
I don't think it matters if you are in a 3 point stance or a 2 point stance if you are lined up tight at the end of the line - or what he calls the slot. In the old days the WRs used to start in a 3 point stance as well. I don't think the NFL is gonna buy his argument.

jth1331
11-11-2011, 02:05 PM
He's not gonna give the Packers a discount, and they won't wanna pay him what he will command. He already has a ring, and the Packers won it without him, so they really don't need each other. I think he signs for 5/35 (ish) back home with Houston.

Again, Zach freakin Miller just signed a 5 year, $34 million dollar deal.
Finley is going to get more than a 5 year, $35 million deal or he will want to. I don't know if he's worth it.

MetSox17
11-11-2011, 02:16 PM
Again, Zach freakin Miller just signed a 5 year, $34 million dollar deal.
Finley is going to get more than a 5 year, $35 million deal or he will want to. I don't know if he's worth it.

He's absolutely worth it as a player, he's just not worth that to the Packers. Aaron Rodgers has turned into Peyton Manning in the sense that he doesn't need a team full of great pass catchers to be successful. He makes everyone around him better. He has his Reggie Wayne in Greg Jennings, and everyone else is just complementary. Guys that will catch the ball when it's thrown right in the #s.

I think Finley ultimately leaves, as much as A-Rod wants him to stay. I just don't think he'd be dumb enough to pass up on the kind of money he would get in free agency.

Complex
11-11-2011, 02:56 PM
Garcon has played well with Painter, He isn't a product of Peyton imo.