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Thunder&Lightning
11-16-2011, 08:41 PM
Who's the biggest bust among the rookies so far (injuries don't make him a bust).

the new jesus
11-16-2011, 08:46 PM
We're not even through their rookie seasons yet how can anybody be a bust?

shylo3716
11-16-2011, 08:47 PM
Danny Watkins!

TACKLE
11-16-2011, 08:48 PM
i heard derrick sherrod sucks.

bigbluedefense
11-16-2011, 08:50 PM
No one is a bust in their rookie season.

Blaine Gabbert is probably the worst. I have bias though, I never thought he'd be a franchise qb so his slow start doesn't help his case.

But it's unfair to declare anything halfway through a rookie season. Especially for a quarterback.

soybean
11-16-2011, 08:52 PM
saints fans might not agree but I think Mark Ingram is disappointing.

Malaka
11-16-2011, 08:53 PM
I think he meant to say disappointments.

We have a thread for how great rookies are doing, he (and I) are curious to see how rookies have struggled as well.

Jerrel Jerrigan is a good example, I would call him a bust but I am not very happy with him.

soybean
11-16-2011, 08:56 PM
this past draft had a very strong 1st round. It's possible the top 10 could all end up being studs.

bigbluedefense
11-16-2011, 08:56 PM
Jernigan sucks. I'll call him a bust now. I know that's not fair, but he's too much like Sinorice Moss for me to give him the benefit of the doubt.

I'm not sure if you can call a 3rd round pick a bust, more like a disappointment though.

jackalope
11-16-2011, 08:59 PM
i heard derrick sherrod sucks.

Not really. He struggled at guard in training camp/preseason, but has looked fine at left tackle. Had to play during a critical time in the Atlanta game after both Clifton and Bulaga were out and he held his own.

Thunder&Lightning
11-16-2011, 09:00 PM
should have said disappointment, not bust.

Malaka
11-16-2011, 09:01 PM
Jernigan sucks. I'll call him a bust now. I know that's not fair, but he's too much like Sinorice Moss for me to give him the benefit of the doubt.

I'm not sure if you can call a 3rd round pick a bust, more like a disappointment though.

Now this is what we're talking about haha ;)

At the very least I hope he can become a good return man because god damn we haven't had one of those since Chad Morton. At best hopefully he can be a Mario Manningham to play alongside Cruz and Nicks.

jrdrylie
11-16-2011, 09:03 PM
We're not even through their rookie seasons yet how can anybody be a bust?

Same way people can call Cam Newton a Supersta!!!!! after just one game (or calling the Packers receiving group the best ever). People just getting caught up in the moment.

FUNBUNCHER
11-16-2011, 09:05 PM
KC's OLB Justin Houston and Rams DE Robert Quinn I thought would be having a bigger impact by now.

I have a bet that Von Miller will have 15 sacks as a rookie. Only seven more to go.

soybean
11-16-2011, 09:14 PM
KC's OLB Justin Houston and Rams DE Robert Quinn I thought would be having a bigger impact by now.

I have a bet that Von Miller will have 15 sacks as a rookie. Only seven more to go.

only? 7 is **** load.

the new jesus
11-16-2011, 09:19 PM
Same way people can call Cam Newton a Supersta!!!!! after just one game (or calling the Packers receiving group the best ever). People just getting caught up in the moment.

I called the Packers passing attack as a whole (inclusive of Rodgers) one of the best ever. And they've been doing it for more than 10 games.

Wait, why do you keep bringing up the Packers if you don't want to talk about them? It's OK, it gets better.

Unbiased
11-16-2011, 09:21 PM
Blaine Gabbert

Jvig43
11-16-2011, 09:24 PM
I called the Packers passing attack as a whole (inclusive of Rodgers) one of the best ever. And they've been doing it for more than 10 games.

Wait, why do you keep bringing up the Packers if you don't want to talk about them? It's OK, it gets better.

Why wouldn't anyone want to talk about the superbowl winning champions? I mean get real, it's not like there are 31 other teams to discuss in the NFL.

Brent
11-16-2011, 09:26 PM
Aaron Rodgers.

SickwithIt1010
11-16-2011, 09:51 PM
No one busts in their rookie year. Lets make this thread next year or the year after, or the year after that.

BaLLiN
11-17-2011, 01:12 AM
Well, its disappointing that Tennessee didn't go with Locker over Hasselbeck. Not saying that I'm right, but I think that the running game would've benefitted a lot more with a dual threat QB.

wogitalia
11-17-2011, 02:46 AM
It's NOT Ponder so YAY!

Small wins baby, small wins!

MetSox17
11-17-2011, 02:58 AM
I'm actually really surprised with how Ponder has looked. If he can continue to develop and start showing that he can be a downfield threat with the ball, i'm really gonna like the future of the Vikings. But we can't get carried away, Trent Edwards also looked very promising his rookie year, i just hope Ponder can keep improving on what he's showing right now

yo123
11-17-2011, 02:59 AM
I couldn't even watch the last game, his numbers didn't look great but did he at least flash some good things?

BloodBrother
11-17-2011, 03:03 AM
clearly it's Patrick Peterson

this thread says so http://draftcountdown.com/forum/showthread.php?t=49171

wogitalia
11-17-2011, 07:53 AM
i'm really gonna like the future of the Vikings.

We need a lot more than competent QB play to have a bright future but Ponder has been very impressive given the situation he is in. Rudolph looks like he can be a good one as well!

Rosebud
11-17-2011, 09:39 AM
I'm actually really surprised with how Ponder has looked. If he can continue to develop and start showing that he can be a downfield threat with the ball, i'm really gonna like the future of the Vikings. But we can't get carried away, Trent Edwards also looked very promising his rookie year, i just hope Ponder can keep improving on what he's showing right now

To be fair Trent Edwards was coming along really well until that concussion also severed his testicles and turned him into a *****.

SuperPacker
11-17-2011, 10:53 AM
i heard derrick sherrod sucks.

Derek Sherrod has played about one game! How can you be a bust after one game?

SuperPacker
11-17-2011, 10:57 AM
Everyone is so happy to say rookies are amazing after half a season so why be so reluctant to say they are crap?

K Train
11-17-2011, 11:11 AM
clearly it's Patrick Peterson

this thread says so http://draftcountdown.com/forum/showthread.php?t=49171

hasnt he been amazing? i havent seen many cards games but im pretty sure jefferson and the other corner are getting raped because of peterson not having the ball thrown his way.


could be wrong, but thats the impression i was under. not to mention hes the best PR in the league based on how gigantic and fast he is

DraftSavant
11-17-2011, 11:14 AM
http://img526.imageshack.us/img526/3591/screencapture1h.png

Mr. Goosemahn
11-17-2011, 11:35 AM
http://img526.imageshack.us/img526/3591/screencapture1h.png

Aah, Suggs! Oopsie, I had a poopsie.

The only good thing Gabbert has done recently is that video where he curses out Cushing, lol. And maybe a pass here and there.

JBCX
11-17-2011, 02:09 PM
These two features on Profootballfocus do a good job of illustrating which rookies have been underperforming and which have been doing well:

http://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2011/10/27/checking-in-the-2011-first-rounders/

http://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2011/10/27/a-look-at-some-non-first-rounders/

According to their game tape graders, the biggest disappointments have been Blaine Gabbert, Anthony Castanzo, James Carpenter, Patrick Peterson, and AJ Green.

Gabe Carimi, Prince Amukamara, Jimmy Smith, Jake Locker, Robert Quinn could also be considered disappointments because they can't get on the field.

Raiderz4Life
11-17-2011, 02:12 PM
These two features on Profootballfocus do a good job of illustrating which rookies have been underperforming and which have been doing well:

http://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2011/10/27/checking-in-the-2011-first-rounders/

http://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2011/10/27/a-look-at-some-non-first-rounders/

According to their game tape graders, the biggest disappointments have been Blaine Gabbert, Anthony Castanzo, James Carpenter, Patrick Peterson, and AJ Green.

Gabe Carimi, Prince Amukamara, Jimmy Smith, Jake Locker, Robert Quinn could also be considered disappointments because they can't get on the field.

Ugh...only a matter of time before you brought this **** in here.

How in the hell is AJ Green a disappointment? The guy is beasting it in Cinci

jrdrylie
11-17-2011, 02:12 PM
These two features on Profootballfocus do a good job of illustrating which rookies have been underperforming and which have been doing well:

http://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2011/10/27/checking-in-the-2011-first-rounders/

http://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2011/10/27/a-look-at-some-non-first-rounders/

According to their game tape graders, the biggest disappointments have been Blaine Gabbert, Anthony Castanzo, James Carpenter, Patrick Peterson, and AJ Green.

Gabe Carimi, Prince Amukamara, Jimmy Smith, Jake Locker, Robert Quinn could also be considered disappointments because they can't get on the field.

Stop! Just stop! Peterson has been very good. AJ Green? I guess being 14th in the NFL in receiving and tied for 6th in touchdowns as a rookie is disappointing.

JBCX
11-17-2011, 02:20 PM
Stop! Just stop! Peterson has been very good. AJ Green? I guess being 14th in the NFL in receiving and tied for 6th in touchdowns as a rookie is disappointing.

When you actually watch every snap of their careers thus far, then you have the ability to talk about how good they are. PFF actually *watches* them play, and judges them based on more than just TD catches and receiving yards. There's more to a WR/CB playing than their numbers.

Raiderz4Life
11-17-2011, 02:26 PM
When you actually watch every snap of their careers thus far, then you have the ability to talk about how good they are. PFF actually *watches* them play, and judges them based on more than just TD catches and receiving yards. There's more to a WR/CB playing than their numbers.

Didn't we already have this argument? Where 99% of the ppl told you, you were using PFF in absolutely the wrong manner. PPl like you annoy me. Instead of forming your own opinion based on what you've seen, you go and use someone else's work to do it. Its all good if its just a supplement but you're using this garbage are your main weapon.

JBCX
11-17-2011, 02:28 PM
Didn't we already have this argument? Where 99% of the ppl told you, you were using PFF in absolutely the wrong manner. PPl like you annoy me. Instead of forming your own opinion based on what you've seen, you go and use someone else's work to do it. Its all good if its just a supplement but you're using this garbage are your main weapon.

It's impossible to watch every snap of every player you are interested in. There's simply not enough time in the day to do this. That's why sites such as PFF are invaluable; they hire people to watch these snaps and give you an informed opinion on them.

Please tell me that you've closely studied AJ Green and Patrick Peterson on a per-snap basis, because I know that you haven't, and your opinion on these players is inferior to PFF's, because they have employees who actually have studied these players on a per-snap basis.

Raiderz4Life
11-17-2011, 02:31 PM
It's impossible to watch every snap of every player you are interested in. There's simply not enough time in the day to do this. That's why sites such as PFF are invaluable; they hire people to watch these snaps and give you an informed opinion on them.

Please tell me that you've closely studied AJ Green and Patrick Peterson on a per-snap basis, because I know that you haven't, and your opinion on these players is inferior to PFF's, because they have employees who actually have studied these players on a per-snap basis.

Their grading system is absolute garbage. They even say it on their own website. They give you points if you made a good play even though you absolutely blew your assignment.

brat316
11-17-2011, 02:32 PM
If you win a hiesman trophy you shall suck.

Caulibflower
11-17-2011, 03:19 PM
I thought Cameron Jordan was going to be a lot more effective right away than he has been.

Halsey
11-17-2011, 03:34 PM
Who cares about how many TDs AJ Green has scored! TDs don't mean anything! Who cares about scoring points in football!

Bengalsrocket
11-17-2011, 03:35 PM
It's impossible to watch every snap of every player you are interested in. There's simply not enough time in the day to do this. That's why sites such as PFF are invaluable; they hire people to watch these snaps and give you an informed opinion on them.

Please tell me that you've closely studied AJ Green and Patrick Peterson on a per-snap basis, because I know that you haven't, and your opinion on these players is inferior to PFF's, because they have employees who actually have studied these players on a per-snap basis.

I have seen every single snap AJ Green has been a part of, a lot of them in person even (stupid black outs) and I can tell you he is anything but a disappointment. He's not immune to the occasional mistake, but he is this very offense.

Green is so ridiculously good for a rookie, that I would go as far as to say that most (emphasis on that word - it's not all or some, it's most) of the attention Dalton gets should be going to Green. It's amazing watching him out jump / reach opponents for a ball. That's just something Cincinnati hasn't had in a long time. Guys like Ochocinco / Houshmanzadeh never had the range that AJ Green has.

cvv84
11-17-2011, 04:04 PM
From top to bottom this is has been a very impressive rookie class IMO. The 1st round alone looks to have produced quite a few studs and several 7-9 year starters.

RaiderNation
11-17-2011, 04:05 PM
I'm glad to say none of the Raiders rookies are looking bad this year. Wisniewski is a stud at LG/C for us and is probably a future pro bowler. Chekwa and DVD both have made plays this year and have promising potential. Barksdale comes in as a 6th OLmen and looks to be out future RT/RG. Taiwan Jones hasn't made a huge play yet, but I expect him to get a long TD in the coming weeks.

NY+Giants=NYG
11-17-2011, 04:06 PM
saints fans might not agree but I think Mark Ingram is disappointing.

Do they even run the ball? It seems like they pass a lot more, but I could be wrong.

Beano
11-17-2011, 04:49 PM
As a Ram fan I can only really judge the guys I see every week. The start of the year was horrible for pretty much all the rookies. All of Quinn, Salas and Pettis have missed time as healthy inactives during the season. But all of them started getting more and more snaps as the season progressed, and all seem to be getting better (Salas breaking his leg won't help). Kendricks has easily been the biggest disappointment imo. So much so that the last few weeks of the season he's been targetted much less and as such has hardly been a factor. His blocking is also fairly meh.

Quinn has done a pretty decent job, but I'm not sure what people expected of him (I saw someone post about him being a bust on a different forum because he was kept quiet by Joe Thomas...). But considering his age, the lack of football he's had and the fact he's not starting, I've seen enough to think he could become a player for us, and I wasn't that excited by him pre draft.

hockey619
11-17-2011, 04:49 PM
http://img526.imageshack.us/img526/3591/screencapture1h.png

hahahahaha yessssss im so happy someone posted something like this.



its not too early to say Gabbert is a bust.
I cant think of a single QB who was scared of the rush in college (which he was), then got drafted and was scared of it in the pros (which he is), then somehow manned up and learned to step up in the pocket and take a hit to make a play (which if he doesnt he will never succeed).

He was a terrible prospect and mediocre college player whos turning into a terrible pro player.

Gabbert has been and always will be a wussy with a capital P. If he were your leader, would you follow him onto the field with confidence? hell no, i wouldnt anyway.

OSUGiants17
11-17-2011, 05:06 PM
These two features on Profootballfocus do a good job of illustrating which rookies have been underperforming and which have been doing well:

http://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2011/10/27/checking-in-the-2011-first-rounders/

http://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2011/10/27/a-look-at-some-non-first-rounders/

According to their game tape graders, the biggest disappointments have been Blaine Gabbert, Anthony Castanzo, James Carpenter, Patrick Peterson, and AJ Green.

Gabe Carimi, Prince Amukamara, Jimmy Smith, Jake Locker, Robert Quinn could also be considered disappointments because they can't get on the field.

How the hell can you watch PP and AJ Green play and honestly say they're dissapointing? Peterson may not have come in a been as good a CB as we thought, but let's be honest, dudes playing on a ****** team and is a rookie. His return abilities are still incredible. And AJ already looks like a polished veteran receiver. The way he plays the ball in the air, runs his routes and just straight up burns people is insane! He is already better than some starting WRs.

And what do you mean they "could also be considered disappointments because they can't get on the field" injuries don't make you a bust as clearly stated earlier on in the thread! Plus Locker is only sitting because he's learning the system behind a veteran QB. It's not they're fault they got hurt or that their coach wants them to wait and learn.

God why do I even waste my time responding to your sheer ignorance. Odds are you'll comeback with something EXTREMELY stupid and you'll cling to PFF as usual. No one cares if you can copy and paste a link and say "SEE THEY SAID IT TOO SO IT MUST BE TRUE! THEY HAVE A WEBSITE AND EMPLOIEzzzzzz". Just please...please go join PFF and leave here forever.

Flyboy
11-17-2011, 05:10 PM
I thought Cameron Jordan was going to be a lot more effective right away than he has been.

Actually, Cam Jordan has played very well in our defense and progressing each and every week. He's become a very good at run stopping in our defense (which for our defense has been an issue) and is getting considerable amount of pressure and hurries on the QB. He has earned any sack numbers but he has been playing at a high level over the last few weeks.

descendency
11-17-2011, 05:16 PM
Stop! Just stop! Peterson has been very good. AJ Green? I guess being 14th in the NFL in receiving and tied for 6th in touchdowns as a rookie is disappointing.

Read what it says. He's a penalty machine right now. It also says he's been dynamic as a receiver.

descendency
11-17-2011, 05:17 PM
I cant think of a single QB who was scared of the rush in college (which he was), then got drafted and was scared of it in the pros (which he is), then somehow manned up and learned to step up in the pocket and take a hit to make a play (which if he doesnt he will never succeed).

Eli Manning?

Ness
11-17-2011, 06:11 PM
I thought Ingram was going to come in and be that workhouse back in the mould of a Garrison Hearst, but he hasn't really done anything yet. Runningbacks seem to have it or don't and it seems apparent from the get-go if they're any good. Even though he's a rookie, I'd be a little concerned since he was rated as a first rounder.

Saints-Tigers
11-17-2011, 06:14 PM
Ingram is a slowish back with no real standout qualities. I dunno what they saw that thought he was worth a first and a second rounder.

Should have kept our first rounder from next year and took Demarco Murray.

yo123
11-17-2011, 07:03 PM
What the hell are you even talking about JCBX? The main point in your argument can't just be that you watch him play and he's not that good. WHAT ISN'T THAT GOOD?!? "You just don't watch him play" is not a ******* argument.

hockey619
11-17-2011, 07:58 PM
Eli Manning?

eh

him and peyton both get happy feet, but they dont have a complete meltdown when they sense football being played around them the way gabbert does.

maybe im a little biased because i hated him as a prospect, but i really dont see how he becomes a viable starter at any point.

A Perfect Score
11-17-2011, 08:09 PM
PFF is garbage, everyone with half a brain knows that. Their grading system is absolutely moronic...They shouldn't hold any water with anyone.

AJ Green has been absolutely phenomenal in Cincy, I've been extremely impressed this year.

Jimmy Smith has looked strong when he's played, but unfortunately the organization isn't big on playing young players. It's too bad, because it isn't like there's anyone in front of him that's playing all that well.

JBCX
11-17-2011, 09:53 PM
PFF is garbage, everyone with half a brain knows that. Their grading system is absolutely moronic...They shouldn't hold any water with anyone.

AJ Green has been absolutely phenomenal in Cincy, I've been extremely impressed this year.

Jimmy Smith has looked strong when he's played, but unfortunately the organization isn't big on playing young players. It's too bad, because it isn't like there's anyone in front of him that's playing all that well.

Cary Williams sucks. I'm sure that if the Ravens organization believed in Jimmy Smith being productive as a rookie he would see the field.

Ravens1991
11-17-2011, 09:57 PM
Smith had no training camp then sprained his ankle. We are playing him on special teams because Harbs feels you have to earn your spot by showing hustle. In preseason Smith was great, he was glue on Dwayne Bowe its just Bowe beat him by experience on some plays

niel89
11-17-2011, 09:59 PM
Jimmy Smith was hurt for a good while early in this season. He is just now really getting healthy.