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View Full Version : Cutler out 6-8 weeks after thumb surgery


BeerBaron
11-20-2011, 10:09 PM
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/11/20/jay-cutler-expected-to-miss-6-8-weeks/

It's such a gut shot for this to happen. We have the defense, special teams and Forte to go .500 the rest of the way to end up 10-6, but damn. This pretty much means we won't be going any further than that.

We were looking so damn good too these last few weeks. He was on fire, Roy Williams was contributing and Earl Bennett was coming alive.

Man this sucks. Another beer for me please.

Breed
11-20-2011, 10:10 PM
You don't need Cutler, you have Forte, Hester, Urlacher, Tillman, Briggs, That one white WR that wears number 18... etc

iowatreat54
11-20-2011, 10:11 PM
Guess what time it is...

http://a.espncdn.com/photo/2011/0123/chi_a_hanie_b2_200.jpg

Nice little action shot...

http://i.cdn.turner.com/si/multimedia/photo_gallery/0908/nfl.preseason.best.action/images/bears.opmq-7796-mid.jpg

And finally...oh god damnit...

http://media.philly.com/images/20110124_dn_0lfi17gp.jpg

BeerBaron
11-20-2011, 10:11 PM
Let's go Haniez. Kurt Warner 2.0!!

I'm not really serious...but a man can dream.

Raiderz4Life
11-20-2011, 10:12 PM
Well this sucks...Cutler's the man....bummer this had to happen.

Ness
11-20-2011, 10:12 PM
This might be the break that propels the Lions for the wild card spot. Maybe. Chicago might be able to hold it together though. Wouldn't surprise me with that defense and Forte.

Raiderz4Life
11-20-2011, 10:13 PM
http://i1139.photobucket.com/albums/n551/wrestlerj91/bears-collins-throws-during-warmups-against-cardinalis-chicago.jpg

BeerBaron
11-20-2011, 10:14 PM
This might be the break that propels the Lions for the wild card spot. Maybe. Chicago might be able to hold it together though. Wouldn't surprise me with that defense and Forte.

Well, right now, the Bears, Lions and Cowboys are probably top 3 in that race. The Bears definitely drop to the bottom, but they still have a shot. .500 the rest of the way would probably get us there.

Man this sucks.

Monomach
11-20-2011, 10:14 PM
Ffffffffffuuuuuuuuuuuuu!

iowatreat54
11-20-2011, 10:15 PM
Let's go Haniez. Kurt Warner 2.0!!

I'm not really serious...but a man can dream.

Hey, we all know Haniez is the ****. If it wasn't for Todd Collins having pictures of Mike Martz's wife, we totally could have beaten Green Bay.

BeerBaron
11-20-2011, 10:16 PM
Well I'll be pulling like crazy for Hanie, no doubt. Let's hope he finally got enough snaps to learn the system!

niel89
11-20-2011, 10:18 PM
Let's go Haniez. Kurt Warner 2.0!!

I'm not really serious...but a man can dream.

We will rally around Caleb Hanie.

iowatreat54
11-20-2011, 10:20 PM
Well I'll be pulling like crazy for Hanie, no doubt. Let's hope he finally got enough snaps to learn the system!

Who knows, maybe Martz's dislike/mistrusting of Hanie will force him to actually call run plays. And not just in obvious spots to make everyone shut up.


Who am I kidding, nothing will change and then he'll just blame it on the Haniez for not being able to run his super complicated system...

ChiFan24
11-20-2011, 10:21 PM
Well this is the benefit of being 7-3 through 10 games. We're still in pretty good position.

Still, this sucks. Cutler's been one of the top 6 or so QB's in the league this year, especially during this win streak. Maybe he'll come back for a playoff game.

Vox Populi
11-20-2011, 10:21 PM
They should sign Brett Favre :trollface:

BeerBaron
11-20-2011, 10:22 PM
Yeah, if anything, this will probably make Martz even crazier. This thing we've been running the last few weeks goes totally against Martz's fundamentals with roll outs and the like.

Martz will probably go back to his usual shenanigans. I hope not....

iowatreat54
11-20-2011, 10:22 PM
They should sign Brett Favre :trollface:

Unfortunately, not even in his prime would he be signed...he doesn't know Martz's system and probably wouldn't be able to learn it. Seriously, it's that complicated...

BeerBaron
11-20-2011, 10:23 PM
Unfortunately, not even in his prime would he be signed...he doesn't know Martz's system and probably wouldn't be able to learn it. Seriously, it's that complicated...

For serious.

We pulled Todd Collins out of the nursing home after being turned down by Trent ******* Green because Martz needed a backup that knew his system because it was SO COMPLICATED he couldn't teach it to both Cutler and Hanie in one offseason.

For dead serious.

Rolex
11-20-2011, 10:24 PM
Well this is the benefit of being 7-3 through 10 games. We're still in pretty good position.

Still, this sucks. Cutler's been one of the top 6 or so QB's in the league this year, especially during this win streak. Maybe he'll come back for a playoff game.

QBs better than Cutler this year:

1. Aaron Rodgers
2. Tom Brady
3. Drew Brees
4. Tony Romo
5. Eli Manning
6. Ben Roethlisberger
7. Matt Schaub
8. Matthew Stafford
9. Matt Hasselbeck

BeerBaron
11-20-2011, 10:26 PM
QBs better than Cutler this year:

1. Aaron Rodgers
2. Tom Brady
3. Drew Brees
4. Tony Romo
5. Eli Manning
6. Ben Roethlisberger
7. Matt Schaub
8. Matthew Stafford
9. Matt Hasselbeck

Great first post. (sarcasm implied.) You obviously haven't watched the past several weeks.

Hasselbeck? GTFO.

iowatreat54
11-20-2011, 10:26 PM
Well, at least he didn't put Rivers. Because as new jesus told us all, Rivers was going to show Cutler how to be a real QB today.

Rolex
11-20-2011, 10:28 PM
Great first post. (sarcasm implied.) You obviously haven't watched the past several weeks.

Hasselbeck? GTFO.

Jay and Matt have been pretty close this year. The other 8 guys are clearcut better.

BeerBaron
11-20-2011, 10:29 PM
Matt would have died around 10 weeks ago with this o-line. Cutler is the only guy who could look remotely good behind it.

When he got reasonable protection and his receivers weren't dropping every pass, Cutler has been borderline elite.

Complex
11-20-2011, 10:31 PM
This is what happen when you doubt Tim Tebow.

Xonraider
11-20-2011, 10:32 PM
QBs better than Cutler this year:

1. Aaron Rodgers
2. Tom Brady
3. Drew Brees
4. Tony Romo
5. Eli Manning
6. Ben Roethlisberger
7. Matt Schaub
8. Matthew Stafford
9. Matt Hasselbeck

Great first post. (sarcasm implied.) You obviously haven't watched the past several weeks.

Hasselbeck? GTFO.

That was some serious neg repping!

And although I am sorry for Bears fans like you BB, I couldn't be happier at the same time, happens just in time for them to beat the Chargers and before the upcoming Raiders game.

Rolex
11-20-2011, 10:32 PM
Matt would have died around 10 weeks ago with this o-line. Cutler is the only guy who could look remotely good behind it.

When he got reasonable protection and his receivers weren't dropping every pass, Cutler has been borderline elite.

I've only seen about half of Cutler's games and then just highlights from the rest. Maybe I just haven't seen enough but he hasn't looked elite to me. Which of these 8 guys is he better than and why?

1. Aaron Rodgers
2. Tom Brady
3. Drew Brees
4. Tony Romo
5. Eli Manning
6. Ben Roethlisberger
7. Matt Schaub
8. Matthew Stafford

BeerBaron
11-20-2011, 10:32 PM
This is what happen when you doubt Tim Tebow.

Every Bear player would have to die for me to do anything but doubt. The plagues of Egypt could all swarm me at once tomorrow, and I'd still doubt him.

But this is not the thread for that.

Caleb Haniezzz.

Vox Populi
11-20-2011, 10:36 PM
Matt would have died around 10 weeks ago with this o-line. Cutler is the only guy who could look remotely good behind it.

When he got reasonable protection and his receivers weren't dropping every pass, Cutler has been borderline elite.

Thats where people will disagree. I think Rodgers and Roethlisberger have more than proven they can look great behind a ****** offensive line. I'd say that Romo would be able to play just as well as Cutler behind it too. I won't comment on Manning, Brees or Brady, because I don't know if they would survive the hits, but I think at least Rodgers, Roethlisberger and Romo could put up at least equal production behind it.

jth1331
11-20-2011, 10:38 PM
You mean Von Miller won't get to drive Cutler to the turf now? Gosh damnit.
All seriousness, I don't know about you guys going 3-3. Mainly because I don't know how good/bad Hanie is. With Cutler, I'd say Bears go 11-5.
Without him? 9-7?
I do think he'll be back for the playoffs if they make it.

I hate Cutler with a passion, but do know he can be a top 5 QB in the league if you give him the protection and as long as he isn't making his stupid, idiotic throws.

Raiderz4Life
11-20-2011, 10:39 PM
Thats where people will disagree. I think Rodgers and Roethlisberger have more than proven they can look great behind a ****** offensive line. I'd say that Romo would be able to play just as well as Cutler behind it too. I won't comment on Manning, Brees or Brady, because I don't know if they would survive the hits, but I think at least Rodgers, Roethlisberger and Romo could put up at least equal production behind it.

Not Romo....Cutler > Romo. Big Ben and Rod...yea those probably.

BeerBaron
11-20-2011, 10:40 PM
Thats where people will disagree. I think Rodgers and Roethlisberger have more than proven they can look great behind a ****** offensive line. I'd say that Romo would be able to play just as well as Cutler behind it too. I won't comment on Manning, Brees or Brady, because I don't know if they would survive the hits, but I think at least Rodgers, Roethlisberger and Romo could put up at least equal production behind it.

Rodgers and Roethilsberger I'll grant you, as they've survived behind bad lines.

Romo broke his collarbone last year and ribs this year behind a bad line.

Just the beating you take, the moving you have to do in order to keep plays alive...there are so few who could hold up doing both of those. Even Ben got banged up in recent years with a foot and thumb injury of his own.

I hope like hell Hanie survives it and plays well, but if he does get beat up, it'll show just how much Cutler had to do.

Cutler seems to be only after Eli and Brady as someone people like to hate on, but by god, in this winstreak, there are few other QBs who could have done what he did. The "o-line improvement" means it's better than it was, but Cutler was still dodging pressure and taking big shots plenty.

Plus mix in the lackluster WR corps and it was a situation very, very people could have survived in. Even Rodgers has a great stable of targets to throw to. Cutler doesn't...

BeerBaron
11-20-2011, 10:42 PM
You mean Von Miller won't get to drive Cutler to the turf now? Gosh damnit.
All seriousness, I don't know about you guys going 3-3. Mainly because I don't know how good/bad Hanie is. With Cutler, I'd say Bears go 11-5.
Without him? 9-7?
I do think he'll be back for the playoffs if they make it.

I hate Cutler with a passion, but do know he can be a top 5 QB in the league if you give him the protection and as long as he isn't making his stupid, idiotic throws.

That's something he had been avoiding recently too. The pick today (where he got hurt) only happened after the receiver fell down.

He's been really limiting his mistakes in recent weeks.

As for Hanie...no one really knows how he'll be. That Packers game might have been a sign of things to come or a total fluke. Hard to say. We'll see over the next few weeks.

comahan
11-20-2011, 10:45 PM
Pretty much the same situation as Houston, so I know how crappy this is. I like the bears this year, hopefully someone can step up and play well.

BeerBaron
11-20-2011, 10:46 PM
Pretty much the same situation as Houston, so I know how crappy this is. I like the bears this year, hopefully someone can step up and play well.

Houston doesn't exactly have Green Bay and Detroit in the division though. You can probably coast with Leinart.

We actually need Hanie to do something.

FUNBUNCHER
11-20-2011, 10:48 PM
I've only seen about half of Cutler's games and then just highlights from the rest. Maybe I just haven't seen enough but he hasn't looked elite to me. Which of these 8 guys is he better than and why?

1. Aaron Rodgers
2. Tom Brady
3. Drew Brees
4. Tony Romo
5. Eli Manning
6. Ben Roethlisberger
7. Matt Schaub
8. Matthew Stafford

Only 8 QBs in the NFL are 'elite'???

Matt Schaub is elite??

Chicago is a QB graveyard, always has been. Traditionally their offenses have been built around the run game and QBs are expected to either get out of the way, or suddenly as if by 'magic' win the game late for the Bears by throwing lights out at Soldier Field.

Most QBs just don't have the mental make-up to be successful in Chicago long term.

I don't think it's an accident that guys like CUtler and Jim McMahon with their 'I-don't-give-a-bleep' attitude have been able to thrive in that meat grinder.

The Bears are where they are this season because of Cutler and Matt Forte.
He's made more clutch plays this season than at any point in his career IMO.

When Cutler is 'on', he makes Chicago a SB contender. I still say he has a bunch of #2s at WR and at most a sketchy Oline.

And the Lions are the biggest beneficiary of Cutler going down. He made Detroit nearly a playoff lock.

TACKLE
11-20-2011, 10:49 PM
Houston doesn't exactly have Green Bay and Detroit in the division though. You can probably coast with Leinart.

We actually need Hanie to do something.

I hope Enderle gets his shot.

BeerBaron
11-20-2011, 10:50 PM
I hope Enderle gets his shot.

Just shoot me now if it comes to that....

comahan
11-20-2011, 10:50 PM
Houston doesn't exactly have Green Bay and Detroit in the division though. You can probably coast with Leinart.

We actually need Hanie to do something.

Youre definitely right on that point, but I meant that both are good teams with good QBs, and both looked like they might be in good spots to make a run this year with good overall teams. Then their QBs go down. Getting to the playoff is pretty irrelevant in my mind if you know that theres no real shot of winning the super bowl.

TACKLE
11-20-2011, 10:51 PM
Just shoot me now if it comes to that....

Why is that? Did he stink it up in preseason or something because he's a hell of lot more talented than Hanie.

BeerBaron
11-20-2011, 10:51 PM
Youre definitely right on that point, but I meant that both are good teams with good QBs, and both looked like they might be in good spots to make a run this year with good overall teams. Then their QBs go down. Getting to the playoff is pretty irrelevant in my mind if you know that theres no real shot of winning the super bowl.

Agreed. I think that's why this is so frustrating. All of that hope this season for nothing.

BeerBaron
11-20-2011, 10:53 PM
Why is that? Did he stink it up in preseason or something because he's a hell of lot more talented than Hanie.

We're not doing anything more with a rookie than we would be with Hanie. Hanie would have to be terrible or get hurt himself....in either case that would be the definite final dagger.

The NFC is too strong and our defense is not as strong as it was when we made the playoffs with rookie Kyle Orton.

ChiFan24
11-20-2011, 10:59 PM
I hope Enderle gets his shot.

I don't.

I'm not a big Hanie fan.....but he's better than Enderle.

JBCX
11-20-2011, 11:06 PM
Excellent. I hope the Bears are forced to go back to Todd Collins. Muahahaha.

jth1331
11-20-2011, 11:16 PM
Houston doesn't exactly have Green Bay and Detroit in the division though. You can probably coast with Leinart.

We actually need Hanie to do something.

Houston can sleep walk to the division title.

Chicago actually needs to play really good football.

ChiFan24
11-20-2011, 11:20 PM
Houston can sleep walk to the division title.

Chicago actually needs to play really good football.

Let's not pretend the Bears have a tough schedule. They'll still probably be favored against KC, Seattle and Minnesota.

I'd say it's pretty similar to the Houston situation.

wogitalia
11-21-2011, 12:22 AM
Bears will be fine. I still don't really get how they keep winning and I expect that to continue, they are just that team this year that is better than the sum of its parts and that just baffles me because usually those teams have some kind of reason for that, like great coaching or something, which we all know isn't true about the Bears.

Plus... Hanie is godlike and stuff.

Rosebud
11-21-2011, 12:45 AM
Bears will be fine. I still don't really get how they keep winning and I expect that to continue, they are just that team this year that is better than the sum of its parts and that just baffles me because usually those teams have some kind of reason for that, like great coaching or something, which we all know isn't true about the Bears.

Plus... Hanie is godlike and stuff.

It's the elite players on that team. Urlacher, Briggs and Peppers are so great that they get the other defenders to play above their heads. Then on Offense they've got Cutler, Forte and Robbie Gould making it work despite the mediocre support. Mix in some real luck with guys playing over their heads and a great special teams unit to win the field position game and the turnover differential they have and that's why they're a good team.

niel89
11-21-2011, 01:00 AM
I can really see the defense and special teams step it up in a major way because they know that they have to take over to win games now.

wogitalia
11-21-2011, 01:00 AM
It's the elite players on that team. Urlacher, Briggs and Peppers are so great that they get the other defenders to play above their heads. Then on Offense they've got Cutler, Forte and Robbie Gould making it work despite the mediocre support. Mix in some real luck with guys playing over their heads and a great special teams unit to win the field position game and the turnover differential they have and that's why they're a good team.

I guess. Still there is just something with that team. I mean look at the Vikings, you can say the same, realistically Allen is playing better than Peppers, Greenway is better than Briggs or Urlacher, Peterson is better than Forte. Basically they win close games and we don't though, they just have "it" this year.

They are just that good bad team in my eyes, you go over their roster and they aren't more talented than half the teams they've beaten and it's not like they have great coaching to make up for it.

Just jealous I guess because we could just as easily been that team and the Bears are a really hard team to like. They are like the anti-Packers or Lions. Both those teams are really likeable which probably makes me underrate the Bears a bit more than I otherwise would!

Still, I learned long ago to not try and pick against or for that team. 1 week they will play to their talent level and you think reality is finally coming and then they bounce back!

descendency
11-21-2011, 01:30 AM
This makes Josh McDaniels look like a genius. Not really - just trolling.

Vox Populi
11-21-2011, 01:45 AM
I know that all of the Bears fans hate Lovie Smith, but isn't it possible that even though he is a turd when it comes to clock management, time outs and challenges, he is still great at making sure his team is well prepared for the upcoming week? I mean, Angelo has stuck him with a bunch of meh at receiver and a well below average offensive line even when its playing at its best, on top of that, the defense has only gotten weaker in the secondary every year since Nate Vasher got all those interceptions and they decided that they didn't need anyone to play safety.

I won't say Lovie is a great coach, because hes pretty damn bad once he needs to make a decision on game day, but it seems like he at least prepares his team well and is confident in the preparation to the point that he looks like an ass on Sundays sometimes because all he really does is run the game based on what the team did Monday-Saturday. Of course, the veteran presences of all-pro guys like Briggs, Urlacher and Peppers can't hurt. They also have some key veterans left over from their Super Bowl run (Urlacher, Briggs, Tillman, Garza, Idonije, Gould and their long snapper) that have seen big games and want probably really want to get back there. I think the only guys on their roster with Super Bowl rings are Matt Spaeth, Charles Grant and Tim Jennings.

BloodBrother
11-21-2011, 04:14 AM
Bears have...injuriieeezzzzz


seriously though, tough luck. Bears were definitely looking much better the last few weeks

J-Mike88
11-21-2011, 05:45 AM
DaBearz will be just fine, as they don't win with the passing game as much as behind that defense.

Anyone can throw those short passes to Forte and Roy Williams.

Cutler had been awesome withstanding all the hits he took early on, especially that game at Detroit. That first half there for him was incredible.

And I'm not so sure Cutler is done this season. Quote me on that. I don't think we've seen the last of JC this season.

Rolex
11-21-2011, 06:45 AM
dude, seriously? you come into a thread, contradict somebody with a list (with absolutely nothing posted to back up your argument), then demand someone else proves you wrong? you made the argument that each of those guys was playing better, you can go ahead and back it up.

I thought it was pretty obvious why those guys have been better this year.

http://i43.tinypic.com/2zfq1aw.png

Not sure why somebody can post that Cutler is a top 5 QB with no evidence but I'm expected to have evidence when I name 8 guys that are better? I've just noticed that people seem to think there's about 10 top 5 QBs in the league. :)

OzTitan
11-21-2011, 06:51 AM
Bears should have paid more attention to backup QB IMO - they're one of the few good teams in the NFL with a decent QB who don't entirely rely on him (Forte + D), so if you have a veteran backup with starting experience who can manage the role, you probably don't see such a massive drop off.

Maybe Haine will do ok. Isn't the NFL due for another no name backup QB who comes in and establishes himself as starting material as a result of an injury to the guy in front of him? law of averages, people!

SolidGold
11-21-2011, 06:55 AM
That sucks. Cutler is fun to watch and was playing well as of late. The Bears are on a roll, can't wait to see what Hanie does.

Rolex
11-21-2011, 06:58 AM
Cutler completes less than 60% of his passes (a rarity in today's NFL, even mediocre QBs tend to hit 60%), doesn't throw for very much yardage, has a mediocre TD-to-INT ratio (worse than 2:1), and frankly hasn't looked anywhere close to elite all year. Only a homer would even consider ranking Cutler in the Top 5 QBs this year.

jrdrylie
11-21-2011, 07:47 AM
The only QBs I would take over Cutler right not are Rodgers and Roethlisberger. I'm not saying Cutler is the third best QB in the NFL, but he is one of three QBs that could last behind that offensive line. Athletically, Cutler is in the top-five for QBs yet he still takes a ton of hits. Imagine putting a statue like Eli or Brady back there or a china doll like Stafford. They would have been injured by week 6.

Bold Predicition Time: The worst case diagnosis of the injury is 6-8 weeks. I think he comes back in just five, on Christmas Day. The team rallies around Cutler, beats Green Bay, and clinches the Wild Card spot.

BeerBaron
11-21-2011, 07:48 AM
The only QBs I would take over Cutler right not are Rodgers and Roethlisberger. I'm not saying Cutler is the third best QB in the NFL, but he is one of three QBs that could last behind that offensive line. Athletically, Cutler is in the top-five for QBs yet he still takes a ton of hits. Imagine putting a statue like Eli or Brady back there or a china doll like Stafford. They would have been injured by week 6.

Bold Predicition Time: The worst case diagnosis of the injury is 6-8 weeks. I think he comes back in just five, on Christmas Day. The team rallies around Cutler, beats Green Bay, and clinches the Wild Card spot.

I am praying he gets back ahead of schedule. that way, he might be able to squeeze in a week or two before the playoffs, assuming Hanie can keep us afloat until then.

BloodBrother
11-21-2011, 07:59 AM
Pretty easy schedule from here on out. Ride Forte and the D until then

jrdrylie
11-21-2011, 07:59 AM
People keep brining up how we need to sign a veteran back up, and I agree to a point, I'm not comfortable with just Hanie and Enderle, but who is out there? The only three guys I can possibly think Martz would okay signing would be Todd Collins, Marc Bulger, and Kurt Warner, all of whom are retired. Otherwise, the other options are Troy Smith, Jim Sorgi, and Chad Pennington.

BloodBrother
11-21-2011, 08:06 AM
http://www.barplan.com/blog/home/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/Bears-New-Quarterback2.jpg

you rang?

nrk
11-21-2011, 08:20 AM
The only QBs I would take over Cutler right not are Rodgers and Roethlisberger. I'm not saying Cutler is the third best QB in the NFL, but he is one of three QBs that could last behind that offensive line. Athletically, Cutler is in the top-five for QBs yet he still takes a ton of hits. Imagine putting a statue like Eli or Brady back there or a china doll like Stafford. They would have been injured by week 6.

Bold Predicition Time: The worst case diagnosis of the injury is 6-8 weeks. I think he comes back in just five, on Christmas Day. The team rallies around Cutler, beats Green Bay, and clinches the Wild Card spot.

I'm tired of reading this. Cutler is the 9th most sacked QB. He isn't alone in getting hit. And who's the injured one? Oh, it's Jay Cutler. Obviously he didn't last behind that offensive line.

Paul
11-21-2011, 08:21 AM
Ain't this about a *****.

Rolex
11-21-2011, 08:30 AM
ok, so you're basing this solely on stats. opinion duly ignored. you're new here, so fwiw: passer rating is roughly the worst single stat to use to try to objectively analyze two different qbs in two different systems. further, glancing down at your next post, you throw out a couple more statistics. so, are you suggesting that john elway was one of the most mediocre qbs of all time? is vinny testaverde one of the best? is brett favre demonstrably better than joe montana? what about sammy baugh?

further, because you just threw out some names in argument with his point. playing 'he did it first' is a ridiculous game. if you object to something, i'd expect you to be able to say why. if anyone had any serious interest in arguing it, they would (see: above).

Look at all of his stats, not sure why you're talking about QB rating? He's mediocre or below average in every department.

I've watched him play many times. Good physical ability but his bad mechanics cause him to be inaccurate and his decision-making is mediocre.

I have no clue how somebody could list him in the Top 5 with so many quality QBs right now.

Saying he is a Top 5 QB is a pretty outrageous statement and one that definitely demands somebody posting evidence, of which there is none.

But whatever, homers are homers and will stick up for their players no matter what the evidence shows. That's football!

TitleTown088
11-21-2011, 08:31 AM
ok, so you're basing this solely on stats. opinion duly ignored. you're new here, so fwiw: passer rating is roughly the worst single stat to use to try to objectively analyze two different qbs in two different systems. further, glancing down at your next post, you throw out a couple more statistics. so, are you suggesting that john elway was one of the most mediocre qbs of all time? is vinny testaverde one of the best? is brett favre demonstrably better than joe montana? what about sammy baugh?

further, because you just threw out some names in argument with his point. playing 'he did it first' is a ridiculous game. if you object to something, i'd expect you to be able to say why. if anyone had any serious interest in arguing it, they would (see: above).


Awwww... njx still has a thing for Cutler. ;)

ATLDirtyBirds
11-21-2011, 08:33 AM
Never want to see a guy get hurt, but pave the way to Falcons in the playoffs baby.

jrdrylie
11-21-2011, 08:45 AM
I'm tired of reading this. Cutler is the 9th most sacked QB. He isn't alone in getting hit. And who's the injured one? Oh, it's Jay Cutler. Obviously he didn't last behind that offensive line.

This is the problem with just looking at stats but not watching games. Other guys have been sacked more, but Cutler is hit on 90% of his drop backs. If he wasn't so good at avoiding sacks, he would easily lead the league in sacks taken. And few QBs take as much constant punishment as Cutler. In the past 2.5 seasons, he's been sacked 110 times. Only Roethlisberger has been sacked more with Rodgers close behind with 106. Like I said, those are the only other QBs that could survive behind this line.

TimmG6376
11-21-2011, 08:47 AM
People keep brining up how we need to sign a veteran back up, and I agree to a point, I'm not comfortable with just Hanie and Enderle, but who is out there? The only three guys I can possibly think Martz would okay signing would be Todd Collins, Marc Bulger, and Kurt Warner, all of whom are retired. Otherwise, the other options are Troy Smith, Jim Sorgi, and Chad Pennington.

Bulger would be the best option don't you think? Yes he is retired but he knows the system and seemed like he wanted to play just couldn't find a spot. Warner is done and Collins is horrible. Not that Bulger is great, but he did at least have some success in the system. Those other three are not only not good, but would have to start from scratch learning Martz's offense.

nrk
11-21-2011, 08:48 AM
This is the problem with just looking at stats but not watching games. Other guys have been sacked more, but Cutler is hit on 90% of his drop backs. If he wasn't so good at avoiding sacks, he would easily lead the league in sacks taken. And few QBs take as much constant punishment as Cutler. In the past 2.5 seasons, he's been sacked 110 times. Only Roethlisberger has been sacked more with Rodgers close behind with 106. Like I said, those are the only other QBs that could survive behind this line.

The problem with saying someone is just looking at stats is not knowing if they actually just look at stats. GTFO with that.

The fact is you're saying Cutler can last behind a line when he is very obviously not lasting. HES INJURED. You spit out that its not just looking at stats, then you give me some bogus stat along with more sack stats. /yawn

Rolex
11-21-2011, 08:49 AM
This is the problem with just looking at stats but not watching games. Other guys have been sacked more, but Cutler is hit on 90% of his drop backs. If he wasn't so good at avoiding sacks, he would easily lead the league in sacks taken. And few QBs take as much constant punishment as Cutler. In the past 2.5 seasons, he's been sacked 110 times. Only Roethlisberger has been sacked more with Rodgers close behind with 106. Like I said, those are the only other QBs that could survive behind this line.

I am quite certain Tom Brady and Drew Brees would give the Bears a better chance to win. But hey, you won't be convinced. Hell, by your analysis wouldn't Vick be the best QB for the Bears? Nobody is better at avoiding the rush...

jrdrylie
11-21-2011, 08:52 AM
I am quite certain Tom Brady and Drew Brees would give the Bears a better chance to win. But hey, you won't be convinced.

Cutler is 18-8 over the past 2 seasons. He gives the Bears a great chance to win. Brees and Brady would too, but I still think Brady would be injured behind this line.

jth1331
11-21-2011, 08:56 AM
Let's not pretend the Bears have a tough schedule. They'll still probably be favored against KC, Seattle and Minnesota.

I'd say it's pretty similar to the Houston situation.

KC sucks, I'll give you that
Seattle has beat the Giants, Ravens and came close to beating the Falcons.
Minnesota is a rivalry game at the end of the year.

Its not similar in the sense as well the Bears are needing to go at least 10-6 IMO to get in the playoffs.
You have the Lions, Giants, Cowboys and Falcons right there and they can't afford slip ups now.
Houston has a 2 game lead on their division and would have to lose 2 division games to even have a chance of losing that division.

jrdrylie
11-21-2011, 09:04 AM
KC sucks, I'll give you that
Seattle has beat the Giants, Ravens and came close to beating the Falcons.
Minnesota is a rivalry game at the end of the year.

Its not similar in the sense as well the Bears are needing to go at least 10-6 IMO to get in the playoffs.
You have the Lions, Giants, Cowboys and Falcons right there and they can't afford slip ups now.
Houston has a 2 game lead on their division and would have to lose 2 division games to even have a chance of losing that division.

They will definitely be favored against Kansas City. Home at Seattle doesn't scare me. Minnesota is a rivalry game. But Chicago beat them up and down the field earlier this season. Plus I think Cutler will be back by then anyways. I also think Chicago will beat Denver as well. 12 wins isn't even out of the question. Hanie has looked good enough in the very little time we have seen him. If Martz doesn't try and get cute with this offense, I think the Bears will be fine.

NY+Giants=NYG
11-21-2011, 09:06 AM
Sorry to hear Bears fans.. Hopefully he comes back quickly.

Rolex
11-21-2011, 09:22 AM
Cutler is 18-8 over the past 2 seasons. He gives the Bears a great chance to win. Brees and Brady would too, but I still think Brady would be injured behind this line.

Wow, the homerism on this forum is worse than I thought.

BeerBaron
11-21-2011, 09:23 AM
Wow, the homerism on this forum is worse than I thought.

What he's saying is not ridiculous at all. A less mobile QB would have been killed behind our o-line weeks ago.

Why is this so hard to comprehend?

Rolex
11-21-2011, 09:27 AM
What he's saying is not ridiculous at all. A less mobile QB would have been killed behind our o-line weeks ago.

Why is this so hard to comprehend?

Saying that Jay Cutler gives ANY team a better chance to win than Tom Brady is ridiculous.

BeerBaron
11-21-2011, 09:28 AM
Saying that Jay Cutler gives ANY team a better chance to win than Tom Brady is pretty funny.

You clearly haven't watched enough Bears this year to be taken seriously in this argument.

SolidGold
11-21-2011, 09:31 AM
Saying that Jay Cutler gives ANY team a better chance to win than Tom Brady is ridiculous.

Not sure if you watched that game yesterday - Cutler made some amazing throws - throws that I would argue Brady could not make. Cutler is one of the most under appreciated/hated QBs in football. Not sure why...

jrdrylie
11-21-2011, 09:31 AM
Saying that Jay Cutler gives ANY team a better chance to win than Tom Brady is ridiculous.

I never said Cutler gives Brady a better chance to win. If you gave me the choice of Cutler or Brady to win one game for the Bears, I pick Brady. But for an entire season, give me Cutler because Brady would be even more of a punching bag back there and wouldn't last six games.

Rolex
11-21-2011, 09:33 AM
I never said Cutler gives Brady a better chance to win. If you gave me the choice of Cutler or Brady to win one game for the Bears, I pick Brady. But for an entire season, give me Cutler because Brady would be even more of a punching bag back there and wouldn't last six games.

Because Cutler has been the paragon for staying healthy for the Bears...

sweetness34
11-21-2011, 09:36 AM
Saying that Jay Cutler gives ANY team a better chance to win than Tom Brady is ridiculous.

You do understand that we are talking about the situation rather than the player right?

Given time in the pocket I'd put Cutler behind Brady. Given the Bears' OL situation there's no doubt in my mind that Brady would look pretty damn average. He's not mobile at all. Brady benefits from having a protective cacoon around him in the pocket. Cutler has to rely a lot on impromptu ability to make plays.

Jay has performed admirably this year with the inconsistency of his OL (see the Detroit game for reference). When given time to throw he's deadly (see Minnesota, Philadelphia and San Diego).

What pisses me off the most though is that Jay injured himself hustling down the field to stop a touchdown after an interception. Instead of flailing his arms up in the air like Stafford did he sprinted 50 some yards, took on a block and allowed Forte to chase down Cason.

It didn't seem like a big play because San Diego was able to get the ball down inside the 10, but on the insuing drive Rivers threw a pick that resulted in a touchback. Had Cutler not hustled to hold up Cason's return it's likely the interception results in a touchdown.

On top of that though he finished the game by leading a drive, which melted the clock and prevented the Chargers from getting the ball back with much time left.

wogitalia
11-21-2011, 10:21 AM
Given time in the pocket I'd put Cutler behind Brady. Given the Bears' OL situation there's no doubt in my mind that Brady would look pretty damn average. He's not mobile at all. Brady benefits from having a protective cacoon around him in the pocket. Cutler has to rely a lot on impromptu ability to make plays.


It's a vicious circle, guys like Brady and Manning are FAR better inside the pocket and far more willing to stand in the pocket, they also make far quicker decisions and as a result don't hold the ball so long. Yes, if they chose to play like Cutler or Roethlisberger they would get destroyed behind what is a very weak line but it's not like Brady is behind a world beating line, it's not like Manning has had an above average line for the last half of a decade and yet both are routinely amongst the least sacked players.

The Chicago line looks far more average(compliment) when Cutler is making shorter passes and getting the ball out quicker, like any line.

Cutler has done very well to succeed playing his style behind that line and to stay healthy for as long as he did but to imply that other vastly different quarterbacks will look better/worse based on what Cutler does is also a fallacy.

Cutler is probably the 3rd best QB in the improvisational, hold the ball for a long time QB rankings, behind Rodgers and Roethlisberger. I don't think he is a top 5 QB though, those two are better at what he does, Brady and Brees are also better but different. After that there is a large group of guys that are in that same category.

Cutler is a damn good player and if you want that type of QB, you won't find many better, but he is also a cause of their pass protection issues as much as he is a symptom.

I'm also not arguing that guys like Brady will do better, they very well may and they may well not, we just don't know, I do expect that Brady wouldn't try and play anything like Cutler though and to say that he would get broken if he did try and play that way just seems borderline idiotic, it implies that Brady would play to his weaknesses instead of his strengths, just like I wouldn't expect Cutler to play like Brady if he were in New England.

iowatreat54
11-21-2011, 11:51 AM
Cutler to have the surgeryzzz.

http://espn.go.com/chicago/nfl/story/_/id/7264419/chicago-bears-jay-cutler-surgery-fractured-thumb

We're a good football team, and we still plan on winning.
- Lovie Smith


Gee, thanks Lovie. Now that I know we still plan on winning games with 6 left on the season and a playoff spot up in the air, I can rest easy at night. Thank you for squashing any fears I had that with Cutler out, we planned on losing out.

BeerBaron
11-21-2011, 11:54 AM
Cutler to have the surgeryzzz.

http://espn.go.com/chicago/nfl/story/_/id/7264419/chicago-bears-jay-cutler-surgery-fractured-thumb



Gee, thanks Lovie. Now that I know we still plan on winning games with 6 left on the season and a playoff spot up in the air, I can rest easy at night. Thank you for squashing any fears I had that with Cutler out, we planned on losing out.

If Jim Caldwell is a Polian-tech Android, I wonder if Lovie is the prototype they build to be a little better just to test out. He proved to have just a little too much personality, just a littttttle bit, so they dumped him and Dungy gave him a home.

JBCX
11-21-2011, 11:56 AM
If Jim Caldwell is a Polian-tech Android, I wonder if Lovie is the prototype they build to be a little better just to test out. He proved to have just a little too much personality, just a littttttle bit, so they dumped him and Dungy gave him a home.

Lovie Smith is the Lore to Jim Caldwell's Data.

nrk
11-21-2011, 12:03 PM
Lovie Smith is the Lore to Jim Caldwell's Data.

So that means Polian is Dr. Soong!

CC.SD
11-21-2011, 12:33 PM
This was actually part of my secret plan; we had to lose to teh Bears, then make sure the rest of the division would win against the Bears.

It's the only way to clean house. Everything must now be as awful as possible.

MetSox17
11-21-2011, 01:01 PM
Maybe that's also the reason why Philip Rivers sucks massive donkey dick this season. He wants Norv gone as well.

CC.SD
11-21-2011, 01:20 PM
It's as good a theory as any, it's been a while since I've seen a throw away get intercepted.

FUNBUNCHER
11-21-2011, 03:19 PM
This is the problem with just looking at stats but not watching games. Other guys have been sacked more, but Cutler is hit on 90% of his drop backs. If he wasn't so good at avoiding sacks, he would easily lead the league in sacks taken. And few QBs take as much constant punishment as Cutler. In the past 2.5 seasons, he's been sacked 110 times. Only Roethlisberger has been sacked more with Rodgers close behind with 106. Like I said, those are the only other QBs that could survive behind this line.

Yeah, it's about when Cutler is facing pressure, and more often than not it's at the top of dropback.
It's not as if he's sitting in the pocket for 3-4 seconds and all hell breaks loose around him.

It's hard for even the greatest QBs to be effective when they really aren't allowed to set up and survey the field.
No QB is more effective under consistent heat than Cutler.
Yes he occasionally makes bad decisions throwing the football, but many times when I'm watching the Bears offense I'm in awe of the throws he's making.

BeerBaron
11-21-2011, 03:32 PM
Tim Hasselbeck just said unequivocally that Leinart is better than Caleb Hanie when comparing the two situations.

Is he? Is he really?

That Packers performance out of Hanie was better than anything Leinart has ever done. Hanie has a smaller body of work, so thatt could have been a total fluke, I hope not, but that alone means I'd take my chances with Hanie in this case.

Monomach
11-21-2011, 03:35 PM
People keep brining up how we need to sign a veteran back up, and I agree to a point, I'm not comfortable with just Hanie and Enderle, but who is out there? The only three guys I can possibly think Martz would okay signing would be Todd Collins, Marc Bulger, and Kurt Warner, all of whom are retired. Otherwise, the other options are Troy Smith, Jim Sorgi, and Chad Pennington.

If I were a betting man, I'd put my money on JT O'Sullivan. Martz and Angelo both have a history of loving the guy.

BeerBaron
11-21-2011, 03:36 PM
Oh good...another guy "who knows the system."

I cringe when I hear those words anymore.

http://www.nflpassers.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/10/844308.jpg

<cringe>

Rolex
11-21-2011, 03:37 PM
No QB is more effective under consistent heat than Cutler.

Oh wow the hyperbole and homerism on Cutler is reaching new heights!

Jvig43
11-21-2011, 03:56 PM
Oh wow the hyperbole and homerism on Cutler is reaching new heights!

Great The new jesus made a new user name. So much for actually leaving.

Vox Populi
11-21-2011, 03:59 PM
Tim Hasselbeck just said unequivocally that Leinart is better than Caleb Hanie when comparing the two situations.

Is he? Is he really?

That Packers performance out of Hanie was better than anything Leinart has ever done. Hanie has a smaller body of work, so thatt could have been a total fluke, I hope not, but that alone means I'd take my chances with Hanie in this case.

No. No it wasn't. Leinart had plenty of solid games as a rookie when he was starting. Check out his games against KC, Chicago, Detroit, St. Louis, Seattle and the first half of the San Fran game where he got injured, Warner replaced him and then the Cards pretty much never went back to him other than a few games over the next 3 years. He wasn't so bad and wasn't hard core captain check down until the next year when he was given a few opportunities.

Despite doing pretty close to nothing for the past 4-5 years, I'd probably take his career 6-11 record in Arizona over Haine's one half of football. I won't say he will be better than Haine, but hes obviously proven more and hasn't been as inept as you seem to remember. And honestly, even if Leinart is a captain checkdown, I don't even think thats an issue when he'll be checking down to the guys on the Texans roster. Teams still have to respect Andre Johnson down the field, and unless they play teams with someone able to go 1-on-1 with him, there should still be plenty of room underneath for people to make plays on short passes.

I still like Houston's chances with Leinart more than the Bears with Haine just because their offense is wayyyyy more talented and friendly for anyone to play in. Plus the AFC is quite a bit worse, or at least a lot closer than the NFC is right now so they could make some noise in the playoffs still, but thats mostly under the assumption that they take a #3 seed and win a wildcard game, I don't see them getting past the semis against a team that has already won a playoff game.

descendency
11-21-2011, 04:01 PM
passer rating is roughly the worst single stat to use to try to objectively analyze two different qbs in two different systems.

Over short careers or over short periods in a career, i'd agree. If we are talking about over a career, then it definitely adequately places people in "groups" of greatness.

BeerBaron
11-21-2011, 04:04 PM
Meh. Perhaps my reaction was exaggerated, but let's not pretend that Leinart is worlds better. He wouldn't have been cut by Cardinals and relegated to backup if that were the case.

I will state right now, and I did when news first broke of Schaub's injury too, that Leinart can totally manage that team to the playoffs. Far easier division and conference and better talent around him.

Hanie is still quite a bit of an unknown. I just don't think it can unequivocally said that Leinart is world's better than Hanie.

Rolex
11-21-2011, 04:06 PM
True or false: Jay Cutler is the best QB in the league under consistent pressure?

BeerBaron
11-21-2011, 04:07 PM
QB rating places too much emphasis on completion percentage too. Donovan McNabb was wildly inaccurate but all those dump offs to Brian Westbrook raised that back up.

Rolex
11-21-2011, 04:07 PM
QB rating places too much emphasis on completion percentage too. Donovan McNabb was wildly inaccurate but all those dump offs to Brian Westbrook raised that back up.

How come Cutler has a low completion percentage (one of the worst in the league) despite dumping off the ball to Forte all the time?

J-Mike88
11-21-2011, 04:22 PM
ok, so you're basing this solely on stats. opinion duly ignored. you're new here, so fwiw: passer rating is roughly the worst single stat to use to try to objectively analyze two different qbs in two different systems.
Really?
The worst single stat?

You think the single stat of passing yards is a better indication?
Or passing attempts?
How about completion percentage?
How about total touchdowns thrown?
Or total interceptions thrown?
What about interception percentage, or touchdown percentage?

Are each of those single stats more accurate in ranking a QB?
Is it more accurate to look at the ESPN QB rating system?

MidwayMonster31
11-21-2011, 04:35 PM
If I had to pick one useless stat, it would be passing yards. Leinart has Arian Foster and incredibly weak division opponents, so that was probably his logic.
Cutler was playing the best football of his career and he was a huge part of that win yesterday. None of us are saying that he's better than Brady or Brees, but he's done an excellent job this season. He's stepped up as the leader of the offense, he has made the plays when he was supposed to. Hanie might be able to lead us to 2-2. Winning those games against Atlanta and Tampa Bay are really looming large now.

jrdrylie
11-21-2011, 04:37 PM
If I were a betting man, I'd put my money on JT O'Sullivan. Martz and Angelo both have a history of loving the guy.

I really hope not. I'd rather start Hester at QB before bringing in O'Sullivan.

J-Mike88
11-21-2011, 05:05 PM
Martz and Cutler finally had figured out how to move him in and out of the pocket to avoid the pressure that had been plaguing him in his Chicago career, finally got the offense going well.
In Chicago's record 5-0 run, Cutler's been the franchise quarterback Chicago traded for in 2009.
He'd been sacked only five times while putting up 32 points a game.
-From King.

D-Unit
11-21-2011, 05:16 PM
Great first post. (sarcasm implied.) You obviously haven't watched the past several weeks.

Hasselbeck? GTFO.
Just did an IP check. Rolex is the new jesus. Account bannage.

edit: guess I'm late. already banned. lol.

MetSox17
11-21-2011, 05:16 PM
are you actually bloody suggesting that you'd ever use "total passing attempts" as the single stat to compare two quarterbacks, or do you just not know how to read?

He doesn't know how to read. It has been proven time and time again.

MetSox17
11-21-2011, 05:18 PM
Just did an IP check. Rolex is the new jesus. Account bannage.

http://i291.photobucket.com/albums/ll292/xinia103/Tumblr%20Memes/AAAWWWYEEEEAAA.jpg



BTW, run that with that JayGlassCutler guy. He be trollin.

Bengalsrz
11-21-2011, 08:29 PM
Huge Cutler fan here. This really sucks.

VUBlacknGold
11-22-2011, 01:02 AM
hmmm... hchu, bengalsrz... is creek going to randomly appear now?

the jags arent good enough for him to show back up. Its been 2 years since hes posted, i think

jth1331
11-22-2011, 09:46 AM
They will definitely be favored against Kansas City. Home at Seattle doesn't scare me. Minnesota is a rivalry game. But Chicago beat them up and down the field earlier this season. Plus I think Cutler will be back by then anyways. I also think Chicago will beat Denver as well. 12 wins isn't even out of the question. Hanie has looked good enough in the very little time we have seen him. If Martz doesn't try and get cute with this offense, I think the Bears will be fine.

You think going 5-1 with a backup QB, 4 road games with all being in tough places to play, is going to happen? A QB who in his career, including postseason, has 34 meaningful pass attempts?

BeerBaron
11-22-2011, 09:49 AM
You think going 5-1 with a backup QB, 4 road games with all being in tough places to play, is going to happen? A QB who in his career, including postseason, has 34 meaningful pass attempts?

5-1 is a high expectation. I'd be happy with 3-3, which I do think is doable. Oakland, Kansas City, Denver, Minnesota and Seattle isn't exactly a nightmare stretch.

With the defense forcing a lot of turnovers, Hester being Hester and Forte definitely capable of carrying a bit more of the offense than he has in recent weeks, I think we can go 3-3 in that stretch to end up 10-6.

Jvig43
11-22-2011, 09:55 AM
Just did an IP check. Rolex is the new jesus. Account bannage.

edit: guess I'm late. already banned. lol.

HA I called that ****. But I think he's also that East atl zone kid too. The guy just can't take a hint.

Raiderz4Life
11-22-2011, 09:55 AM
5-1 is possible...they can beat seattle Minnesota kc and denver...lose to oakland ;)

Bulldogs
11-26-2011, 12:19 PM
Bears will probably sneak into the playoffs because the other wild card teams also suck. They will lose their first playoff game.

Cutler was doing terrible against the Packers in the playoffs last year. Caleb was actually a significant upgrade. Maybe Caleb will give the Bears the boost they need at QB to be a legitimate threat in the playoffs.

Please, for all of us, stop making new accounts. Couldn't be a more obvious troll.

jth1331
12-04-2011, 09:00 PM
Yeah, Bear fans, how do you feel now about your playoff chances?
This season has made me realize you better have a darn good backup QB. No more going the Colts approach of drafting a guy in the 7th round to fill the spot.

BeerBaron
12-04-2011, 10:13 PM
Yeah, Bear fans, how do you feel now about your playoff chances?
This season has made me realize you better have a darn good backup QB. No more going the Colts approach of drafting a guy in the 7th round to fill the spot.

Definitely. I made a point to mention that in my last weekly write up.

As for our playoff chances...blegh. Any other year I'd say we're SOL without Cutler and Forte at this point, but our biggest wildcard competition is also sucking.

The Giants and Cowboys will beat up on eachother going for the division while the Lions and Falcons are also losing. (We have the tiebreaker with the Falcons for what it's worth...)

But we may not win another game with the way we played today. You'd have to say we have the worst shot of the Wildcard contenders in the NFC, though that's really not saying much.

Monomach
12-18-2011, 09:27 PM
5-1 is possible...they can beat seattle Minnesota kc and denver...lose to oakland ;)

Ah, I miss the days when people thought this. Things were so much simpler then. We were all so full of hope and innocence.

Now we know exactly how good Jay Cutler really is...and how much of a horrible fraud Caleb McInterceptionpants is.

BeerBaron
12-18-2011, 09:29 PM
Yeah, with Cutler, we'd be no worse than 10-4...maybe even 11-3. All of these losses were easily winnable if Cutler were there. Fewer turnovers and one more TD per game would have been enough.

Alas....

Hanie is still better than Todd Collins though.

NotRickJames
12-19-2011, 02:04 AM
Funny that Martz was right about Hanie. He always knew he sucked. That's why he got Collins (well, that was even worse, but still) and drafted Enderle.