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Caulibflower
11-20-2011, 10:31 PM
I'm watching the end of this Eagles/Giants game and thinking it would be interesting to do a realtime analysis of Vince Young while he tries to secure a win. Obviously, the Vince Young debate still smolders in some circles. This is a game where he's looked simply terrible at times and already has thrown 3 interceptions. But, of course, Young' MO has always been that he "just wins games." So we'll see how he closes out the night. With Vick entrenched, Young's not going to be starting in Philly anytime soon but QB-needy teams will be paying attention.

1:00 left in the third quarter. 3rd down and 7 from inside their own ten. Pressure situation; the Eagles need to keep their offense on the field. Avoids the rush beautifully, fires a quick pass to Celek for the first down. Very cool and composed despite the pressure (Quite unlike his first pass of the game, a dud of a swing pass that didn't even make it to LeSean McCoy's feet, despite it being a short throw and there being no pressure.)

Another 6-yard completion. Then it's the 4th quarter. LeSean McCoy doesn't get anything on a run. Then it's 3rd and 3. Young makes another good read and an accurate pass to Celek, who tries to turn around instead of running with the pass and gets tackled short of the 1st. The ball might've been a little behind, but Celek didn't adjust very well. Linebacker made a good tackle, too. It's a play you normally would bet on to result in a first down once you saw that the receiver caught it, but ultimately wasn't a conversion. Young did his part well enough.

Giants score. Nnamdi looks like he doesn't know what to do out there. Pressure has been ratcheted up. Tie game.

McCoy with a negative run. Young then hits Celek for 9, and Ronnie Brown converts the third down.

Young throws a pass over his receiver's head. Kind of had the look of being thrown away. Then another high one to Riley Cooper, which was borderline catchable but not a good throw.

Third and ten... gets a good pocket, hangs in and delivers a good pass to a wide-open Riley Cooper for 18 and the first.

McCoy loses 6 yards. His last few runs have been terrible. Second and 16, Young ignores pressure and threads a sidearm throw through at least two defenders, three were in the area, to Jason Avant for 13. It was a throw I was surprised to see completed. Jason Avant makes a fantastic catch. Avant's part in the play was more impressive, but Vince Young made it happen.

3rd and three, Young avoids a flying Mark Herzlich and converts the third with a pass to the flat.

McCoy for 7 yards, then for 2. Then Young manages to just pick up the first with his feet.

Young hits McCoy for a short gain. Then a designed run for Young... in which he doesn't follow his blockers and only gets a couple yards, when he might've had the first if he cuts back inside. That's kind of aggravating, since Young's supposed to be a guy who can do that; that's something people point to when talking about what he can do that other quarterbacks can't do. Shoulda cut to his left.

3rd and 4. I think this is the 15th play of this drive. Even if they have to kick a field goal, the Eagles will have burned a ton of clock and taken the lead. Good quick pass to DeSean Jackson, and Jackson makes a man miss to get the first down. Getting rid of the ball as quickly as he did is what gave Jackson the time to set up his defender and make him miss.

McCoy runs for four, and then runs again and loses two. It's 3rd and 8. Chris Collinsowrth is talking about how the Eagles would be crazy to let Vince Young try and throw for a touchdown.

LOL - And then Vince Young hits Riley Cooper in the back of the end zone. Mark Herzlich was out of position, giving Young a wide lane, and there wasn't much of a rush. And now Collinsworth is talking about how no one does it better than Vince Young when the game is on the line.

Think that was 6 3rd down conversions on that drive, counting the touchdown. Best-case scenario for the Eagles for the stage of the game they were in. Used almost the entire 4th quarter and the Giants offense doesn't get it back until 2:39 left in the game.

Big pass to Cruz, bigger fumble by Manning and Philly's just got to run the clock down to 0:00.

McCoy rips off a big run, goes over 1000 for the season, secures the win.

So... Classic VY ending. Wasn't pretty, but he took his offense down the field and made the plays he ultimately needed to make to get the win.

holt_bruce81
11-20-2011, 10:33 PM
It was a good game. But VY is nothing more than a back up player from now till he retires.

Breed
11-20-2011, 10:34 PM
Vince Young can be a starter on 93% of teams in the league.

holt_bruce81
11-20-2011, 10:36 PM
You're right. But not the Titans and 75 year old Matt Hasselbeck.

FUNBUNCHER
11-20-2011, 10:37 PM
Andy Reid is the greatest QB coach ever!! McNabb/Vick now VY.
SOmething about the way he teaches the game communicates the intricacies of the QB position and makes almost any QB look like an NFL starter.

It is beyond unbelievable that VY beat the Giants with his arm.

Caulibflower
11-20-2011, 10:39 PM
I too am somewhat more inclined to give kudos to Andy Reid.

Complex
11-20-2011, 10:39 PM
You're right. But not the Titans and 75 year old Matt Hasselbeck.

Vince was good his last year in Tennessee, Jeff Fisher is just a asshole who plays favorites. We were the highest scoring team before Vince got benched for Kerry Collins after one bad game.


Vince could start for a lot of teams.

Raiderz4Life
11-20-2011, 10:42 PM
Vince was good his last year in Tennessee, Jeff Fisher is just a asshole who plays favorites. We were the highest scoring team before Vince got benched for Kerry Collins after one bad game.


Vince could start for a lot of teams.

VY was a headcase in Tenn let's not just blame it all on Fisher.

7-11
11-20-2011, 10:48 PM
Vince could start for a lot of teams.

Who?


Colts this year and maybe Cleveland, Seattle, Miami, Washington and Denver.

Whatever he is, if you want to win consistently i really don't think he's the answer.

Caulibflower
11-20-2011, 11:06 PM
Who?


Colts this year and maybe Cleveland, Seattle, Miami, Washington and Denver.

Whatever he is, if you want to win consistently i really don't think he's the answer.


Yeah, VY just doesn't really look like a starter, even when he wins. But he does win, so you think, "Hey, could start right?" But then you look around the league and realize most teams wouldn't even entertain the thought of swapping their QB for Vince Young. It's not that he's terrible; I think he'll probably last in the league for awhile as a backup/journeyman starter. It's more that when he was drafted people thought he could be a top-10 NFL QB, but I'm not sure he's breaking the top-25. And of course, being top-25 at any position in the NFL is impressive, but if you're talking about a starting QB everybody wants their guy to be in that top-10 range to feel like they're serious contenders.

soybean
11-21-2011, 01:02 AM
They need to exploit his talents and let him run more. How far do you expect to get expecting him to be solely a pocket passer?

OzTitan
11-21-2011, 06:43 AM
Vince is alright here and there picking up yardage on the ground but he isn't much of a designed run play QB anymore. He's too fragile.

A Perfect Score
11-21-2011, 09:13 AM
Just...wins...games.

Nuff said.

killxswitch
11-21-2011, 09:53 AM
Just...wins...games.

Nuff said.

Except when he doesn't. Which is what happens whenever he puts a string of starts together. He will never be a consistently good NFL starter. Might be a great backup though.

Fico
11-21-2011, 11:20 AM
Except when he doesn't. Which is what happens whenever he puts a string of starts together. He will never be a consistently good NFL starter. Might be a great backup though.

Except for all the string of starts he got as a Titan.

People can say what they want about him winning ugly. They also fail to point out that his rating has risen every year he has been in the league. Before Fisher got his panties in a bundle for the last time Vince had 98+ passer rating.

The dude was 31-17 as a starter in Tennessee. That same exact team was 15-18 without him in the line-up. Yet Fisher consistently felt Collins gave his team the best chance to win despite the only evidence applicable to the situation showed otherwise.

The only reason Vince is looked upon in his current light due to a coach who defines mediocrity, yet is somewhat revered because of his tenure. The fact is Jeff Fisher has a career record slightly over .500 and hasn't won a playoff game in about 100 years. He would in fact have a below .500 career record if it wasn't for the one QB whom he seems to have had a personnel vendetta against.

If your goal is winning football games then you want the guy on your team plain and simple.

nrk
11-21-2011, 11:24 AM
"Vince Young will not let them lose." - Brent Musburger

I hated him in college but I have rooted for him in the NFL. I'd definitely take him over some of the lesser starting QBs.

jrdrylie
11-21-2011, 11:41 AM
Young could start for a bunch of teams. Indianapolis, Miami, Carolina, Jacksonville, Houston (after Schaub injury), Washington, Seattle, Arizona, Oakland, Denver, Cleveland. Possible others like Tennessee, Minnesota, Kansas City, and Buffalo might be better off with Young. Not 93% of the league like Breed says, but maybe 35-40%.

bucfan12
11-21-2011, 11:41 AM
Young will never be an elite QB, but dang he just knows how to win. The stats will never be pretty, but he just finds a way to win ball games late.

What has hurt him was when ever he had a down game, Jeff Fisher just benched him in Tennesee because he never wanted to draft him in the first place.

bucfan12
11-21-2011, 11:43 AM
Young could start for a bunch of teams. Indianapolis, Miami, Carolina, Jacksonville, Houston (after Schaub injury), Washington, Seattle, Arizona, Oakland, Denver, Cleveland. Possible others like Tennessee, Minnesota, Kansas City, and Buffalo might be better off with Young. Not 93% of the league like Breed says, but maybe 35-40%.

Young would be a good fit with a good team around him. He's going to make ugly throws and TOs. If the defense and the running game are good around him, and he's got good WRs around him, he can be successful. He won't put up gawdy numbers, but he can get you the most important stat. A win.

49erNation85
11-21-2011, 11:57 AM
Tebow > Young .

Sloopy
11-21-2011, 02:32 PM
At the end of the day, it was the D that won this game... not Vince Young.

Anytime you hold a team to 10 points, you better win. The D actually stepped up and stopped the run and held the Giants to there lowest point total all season despite VY throwing three picks.

You can say that VY JUST WINZZZZ or you can examine this game and realize what happened

7-11
11-22-2011, 12:25 AM
Young would be a good fit with a good team around him. He's going to make ugly throws and TOs. If the defense and the running game are good around him, and he's got good WRs around him, he can be successful. He won't put up gawdy numbers, but he can get you the most important stat. A win.

What? So VY would be a good fit with a team that was good everywhere else besides qb? Even though 'he's going to make ugly throws and TOs'? Isn't that pretty much the opposite of what you want out of a qb on a team with a good defense, running game and receiving unit? Or any team for that matter?

Basically what you're saying is he'd play the Alex Smith role but with turnovers, i'm sorry but that just isn't very good at all.

Bulldogs
11-22-2011, 12:43 AM
Young could start for a bunch of teams. Indianapolis, Miami, Carolina, Jacksonville, Houston (after Schaub injury), Washington, Seattle, Arizona, Oakland, Denver, Cleveland. Possible others like Tennessee, Minnesota, Kansas City, and Buffalo might be better off with Young. Not 93% of the league like Breed says, but maybe 35-40%.

Some of these are pretty questionable. I'd take either Carson Palmer or Cam Newton over Vince Young no question.

Fico
11-22-2011, 08:08 AM
Some of these are pretty questionable. I'd take either Carson Palmer or Cam Newton over Vince Young no question.

Then your team would lose a lot more games.

To those that want to look "objectively" at games and say despite the fact that Vince continues to win, he is playing crappy, why do they fail to mention how much he has improved year after year? Why is there no mention of the 98+ QB rating he had in 2010? Why is there no objective look at the comparison of the Titans record with Vince playing versus without Vince playing during his tenure with the Titans?

Even in this game he improved dramatically from the 1st half to the 2nd.

As to the post above referring to what you want in a QB, you want a QB who the guys on your team want to play for. You want a guy on your team that finds a way to get a victory.

Exhibit A: See Titans players after Fisher pulled his ***** move and benched Young.

Exhibit B: See the Titans record with Vince in the lineup from 06-10 an without Vince in the lineup.

Exhibit C: The dude was 15-18 in the second half and led his 2-6 team to victory on the road against the Giants in his first sustained action in over a year.

The dude will be a starter next season and some team is going to be completely turned around because of it.

FUNBUNCHER
11-22-2011, 09:46 AM
The fact that VY is being compared to a rookie(!) in Newton should tell you all you need to know how lowly he's regarded in the NFL.

No one is going to sign VY to be their starter. He'll be in a Matt Leinart situation where either an injury or incompetence by a shaky starter will insert VInce into the starting lineup.
He's going to have to earn the trust of a new HC and franchise IMO. Young isn't going to be given the benefit of the doubt that he's a difference maker in the NFL.

Da-Phins
11-22-2011, 10:15 AM
Vince is a joke as a QB. He will have some good moments but never be consistent enough to be able to lead a team. He's a good backup capable of helping your team for a few games but thats it. Add who the hell would want this drama queen leading their team? Time and time again he has shown us why you cant trust the guy when things arent going well. He will either ***** and pout or go on suicide watch.