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BeerBaron
11-21-2011, 09:06 AM
It's Monday morning once again (sadly...) which means it's time again for me to share my thoughts from the past weekend of NFL play. Yes, I realize there is still a game tonight and if anything worthwhile happens in it, I'll update it. (I'm predicting that Palko throws for at least 300 in a close Pats win for the record...we shall see.)

1.) Bears are down, but not out.
I need to start with the news closest to my heart...Jay Cutler's injury. If you haven't heard, he's likely out 6-8 weeks after thumb surgery. He reportedly suffered the injury after being shoved to the ground on the INT return where the WR fell down.

This is a harsh blow..but it's not the end of the world. If he can come back at the front end of that time table (or hopefully even sooner,) he could be back in time for the playoffs...assuming Caleb Hanie can keep us afloat that long.

And that's the real question mark in all of this. Between Forte, the defense and special teams, even an average performance out of Hanie should allow us to go .500 the rest of the way, ending up 10-6.

But that o-line is still a wreck, and a big part of it's "improvement" has been Cutler's ability to improvise (and Mike Martz's willingness to let him do it.) We'll see whether or not Hanie can do the same because, if not, he likely won't last very long.

2.) QBs I don't like update.
A.) Tim Tebow
Ugh. Well, I still contend this won't last forever. It just looks like it's going to take a little bit longer to bite the dust than expected.

One reaction I enjoyed on it was from Mike Golic on Mike and Mike this morning. Greenie was just giving a quick overview of some games and happened to mention how the Dolphins have won 3 straight, and it could be 4 straight if not for Tebow. Golic's eyes just got real big and he shook his head at the mention of Tebow. Former NFL players and coaches just aren't sure how to explain this right now.

His success right now is really just inexplicable. He will look downright AWFUL for 95% of the game then suddenly and inexplicably move the ball right when it has to happen. Given their weak division, it wouldn't completely surprise me to see them make a playoff push, but that is where this experiment will surely end. It's not a style of offense that will work in the long run, but it looks like it'll take a little while longer than I expected for it to fail.

Also, let's not forget that he's not undefeated since taking over. I think we'll start to see more Lions-game-like performances out of him soon enough. A big key to beating him seems to be getting a big early lead, something the Lions did but no one else has thus far. The Broncos defense is far from invulnerable, though Von Miller is playing crazy right now. He has just as much, if not more, of a hand in the Broncos recent success than does Tebow.

It won't last forever.

**Addendum to my thoughts on Tebow:**

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/11/21/elway-broncos-are-no-closer-to-finding-quarterback-of-future/

Even the Broncos front office realizes this won't work.

Elway and Fox probably sit across from eachother in meetings shaking their heads and saying "WTF man? How is this happening?"

They'll take it, but even they realize this isn't going to work forever. Better to get working on finding that next guy now while the fanbase is appeased with Tebow.

B.) Carson Palmer
He finally had a game in which he limited turnovers, and still the Raiders just barely managed to beat the Vikings who couldn't protect their rookie QB and lost their best offensive player.

With the...ugh...gnugh....Tebow-led Broncos not far behind, the Raiders need to pick it up a bit. Getting McFadden back will help give their offense a bit of a kick, but I have a hard time seeing this team as anything more than a one-and-done playoff team at best.

3.) The Giants play down to their competition.
It's the best way I can think of to explain what happens to this team. The comparison I have been making is to the mid-last decade Jaguars. One week, they would go out and stand toe to toe with some of the best teams in football...then turn around and lose to the David Carr Texans or some equally bad team.

That theory will be put to the test these next two weeks against the Saints and Packers. Those two difficult games, combined with the Cowboys easier schedule, may be a make or break period for the Giants. They simply cannot afford to get down by 2 games in the division with the Wildcard race so tight.

It'll be important to see whether the Giants team who beat New England and played close to San Fran shows up, or the one who lost to Seattle and Philly, and just barely beat Arizona and Miami.

Further complicating matters is that the Giants simply cannot run the ball right now. That used to be their forte...have a lunch pale o-line and stuff the ball down the opponents throats with 2-3 solid backs. With that o-line struggling and Bradshaw injured, the Giants have fallen to 31st in rushing yards. Not good.

4.) Vince Young just winz gamezz.
Much like Tebow, VY can look extremely bad for 3/4 of the game then suddenly turn it on when it all counts. As with Tebow, this is not a good way to try and win long term, but for the Eagles, it was just what the doctor ordered Sunday night.

If someone went back to before the game and told you that Young would throw 3 picks and would struggle with his accuracy and release, you'd think that the Giants would win by 3 scores.

But a combination of the Giants not being a team you can trust and Vince Young being, if nothing else, a winner, that just didn't prove to be the case.

Now, as for the Eagles as a whole...I've never before heard a 3-6 team still talked about as having a playoff shot so much. It just seems ridiculous, but now...I'm not so sure. The Giants have a difficult road ahead, the Bears lost their starting QB, the Lions have had their struggles, and the Cowboys are...the Cowboys...knowing them, they'll probably lose on Thursday to the Dolphins. I hate even bringing this up, but if the Eagles can keep winning, they still have a shot at the division and the wildcard, which just seems ridiculous to me...yet, here we are.

5.) The Bengals miss Leon Hall.
Two weeks ago, the Bengals were leading their division and were one of the best turnaround stories in the league from last year. Now, two close losses to their biggest division rivals have set them back. Andy Dalton was made to look more like a rookie in those two games than in any previous, and they were without AJ Green for the past 6 quarters. Yet still the Bengals held both games close.

Now, it's only a hypothetical, but I think that if the Bengals had Leon Hall healthy for both of those games (he's out for the year,) I think they might have won. Yes, they've got Dalton and Green playing well, but their defense was really the key cog making it all go. Having already lost Jonathan Joseph to free agency, the team was still getting by with a combination of Nate Clements and Kelly Jennings opposite Hall...but with Hall out, suddenly the Bengals secondary looks downright awful.

The Bengals have given up fewer big plays than any other defense all year, but with those two starting and the Bengals lack of an impact safety, the Ravens had a ton of big plays.

I think the Bengals still stand a chance at making the playoffs, but their ability to do anything beyond that was lost with Leon Hall.

6.) The 49ers are the 2nd best team in the NFL.

No, not just the NFC...in all of football. But for an overtime loss to the Cowboys, this team could still be undefeated. Think about that for a second.

And for weeks, people continued to question them because they hadn't beaten anyone particularly good. Then, they go and beat the Giants. Not only are they beating the good teams they do face, they are crushing the teams they SHOULD beat. (Which is the polar opposite of what the Giants are doing right now...)

They have the #1 scoring defense and the #1 rushing defense...two categories that have traditionally boded well for teams entering the playoffs.

They're also #1 in the league in turnover differential at +17...which is +5 more than anyone else.

The 49ers are a team that doesn't allow many points, doesn't allow you to run the ball, and doesn't turn it over while doing a good job of forcing turnovers. They are going to be a VERY tough team to beat this year.

7.) OH NO! WE SUCK AGAIN! (The Bills.)
The Bills, everyone's darling to start the year, has crashed back down to Earth very, very hard.

And looking back, we could have seen this coming. Aside from the dismantling of Kansas City to begin the year and the shut out of Washington, the Bills other games prior to this losing streak were decided by margins of 3, 3, 3, 7 and 3., during which they were 3-2.

And now, they're not even playing that close, with losses by margins of 16, 37 and 27 in the last 3 weeks. YIKES.

One big part of their early success was because they were overachieving and getting some turnovers. The Bills have done a great job with cast offs and low round/undrafted players, but they've simply missed on too many early picks in recent years to compete long term. For every Fitzpatrick, Fred Jackson and Steve Johnson they've turned up, they've had an Aaron Maybin (bust,) Leodis McKelvin (looking like a bust,) James Hardy (bust,) Marshawn Lynch (no longer with the team,) Posluszny (no longer with the team,) Donte Whitner (no longer with the team,) and John McCargo (bust)....

You simply can't miss in the early rounds like that year, after year, after year and expect to be successful in this league. It's always nice to find some gems later on in the draft or in the ranks of the undrafted, but it's incredibly difficult to add ELITE talent that way. And if you want to compete in this league, you need at least a few guys who are, pure talent-wise, above and beyond any hard-working rabble you can typically turn up outside the top few rounds. The Bills don't have that right now.

If I think of anything more, of if there is something you'd like to seem discuss, just let me know. But I'm still suffering from Cutler-injury-hangover and a general case of the Monday Mornings, so I think 7 topics is enough for right now.

Sloopy
11-21-2011, 09:07 AM
WOOOOOOOOO can't wait to read this when I get back

BeerBaron
11-21-2011, 09:08 AM
WOOOOOOOOO can't wait to read this when I get back

Haha, I was going to say "there's no ******* way someone read that all already..."

NY+Giants=NYG
11-21-2011, 09:10 AM
The Giants injuries are catching up. People are IR is one kick in the nuts. But when your other guys are missing games it's hard to get consistency. This starts with the OL.

Also, I am ready to fire Fewell! 3 man rush? F that man, this defense was build to get after the QB! 3 man rush against a backup QB is BS! If that means firing Coughlin to get rid of him, and Gilbride then so be it. I am done watching this mess.

BeerBaron
11-21-2011, 09:17 AM
The Giants injuries are catching up. People are IR is one kick in the nuts. But when your other guys are missing games it's hard to get consistency. This starts with the OL.

Also, I am ready to fire Fewell! 3 man rush? F that man, this defense was build to get after the QB! 3 man rush against a backup QB is BS! If that means firing Coughlin to get rid of him, and Gilbride then so be it. I am done watching this mess.

Yeah, you need a DC like Spags back. Soft coverages and weak rushes are NOT what the Giants should be doing. Hell, print me a copy of the defensive playbook and I'll call for some pressure on the opposing QB.

I think that, last night at least, you were more afraid of Vince's running than passing. "Mush rushes" are one way to combat that...but Vince barely even tried to run.

Rosebud
11-21-2011, 09:20 AM
For the giants it's a couple factors.

A) The coaching staff coaches down to the opposition. What I mean by that is that we only get creative and aggressive defensively against the better teams in the NFL and go super vanilla and play coverage against teams that we "should be able to beat on talent alone". Add to that our lack of elite coverage linebackers outside of the currently injured Michael Boley and we don't have the personnel to just play coverage and not give up the middle of the field in front of those safeties. Just look at the QBs who've beaten us The Rex Cannon, Clipboard Jesus, Alex Smith and Vince JUST WINZ GAMEZZ Young. All of those guys outside of Smith are bad QBs that we eased up on instead of burying them and Smith hasn't been asked to throw much so the team wasn't very scared of him lighting them up heading into the game.

B) We just play to our opponents talent level. Giants never blow teams out any and never get blown out. They play to keep it close before turning it on late. It's tough to argue with the results of all this because the Giants are one of those teams that can get on a roll and beat anyone if they're playing their best, but the problem is that just because the team turns it on late, doesn't mean it's going to work every single time. See the 9ers and Seahawks games were 4th quarter turnovers took a game we were driving to go up in and turned it into a two score deficit.

The worst thing is these are traits the team has ahd so long as Coughlin's been here so I have to assume he's the one sending down the order to not give away too much in games we should win despite not pulling out all the stops.

Rosebud
11-21-2011, 09:22 AM
Yeah, you need a DC like Spags back. Soft coverages and weak rushes are NOT what the Giants should be doing. Hell, print me a copy of the defensive playbook and I'll call for some pressure on the opposing QB.

I think that, last night at least, you were more afraid of Vince's running than passing. "Mush rushes" are one way to combat that...but Vince barely even tried to run.

*shrug* I love spags, I'm still pissed Coughlin didn't retire after the superbowl so that Spags could take over for the Giants...but he did it to. I remember a lot of games where we outclassed the opposition and saw spags calling a very passive game and not really getting into his crafty blitzes at all. That's why I think it's coughlin's doing, Fewell does it, Spags did it, even Sheridan who sucked hard as a DC called the game better and more aggressively against better teams.

NY+Giants=NYG
11-21-2011, 09:23 AM
Yeah, you need a DC like Spags back. Soft coverages and weak rushes are NOT what the Giants should be doing. Hell, print me a copy of the defensive playbook and I'll call for some pressure on the opposing QB.

I think that, last night at least, you were more afraid of Vince's running than passing. "Mush rushes" are one way to combat that...but Vince barely even tried to run.

I don't understand Coughlin's hiring practices. I truly don't.

Coughlin: We need a DC. You like football?

DC Candidate: Yes!

Coughlin: Do you have experience?

DC Candidate: Yes, does it matter?

Coughlin: No! You're hired! Welcome to the Giants!




So those keep track at home.

2004: HC: Coughlin
OC: John Hufangel
DC: Tim Lewis



Since then: Gilbride

Defensively: Spags, Sheridan, and now Fewell, who sucks!


So with that please forward all resumes to the Giants. It's ok, you don't need prior OC experience in the NFL. Coughlin, in fact, will probably hire you.

BeerBaron
11-21-2011, 09:26 AM
*shrug* I love spags, I'm still pissed Coughlin didn't retire after the superbowl so that Spags could take over for the Giants...but he did it to. I remember a lot of games where we outclassed the opposition and saw spags calling a very passive game and not really getting into his crafty blitzes at all. That's why I think it's coughlin's doing, Fewell does it, Spags did it, even Sheridan who sucked hard as a DC called the game better and more aggressively against better teams.

If there is an order coming down to do this, then it's completely counter intuitive and wrong.

You blitz and beat up bad QBs. If that defense were turned loose vs. the Redskins, Seahawks, Dolphins, Eagles last night or maybe even the 49ers, you would have crushed the ever loving **** out of them.

Maybe the best thing that can happen (for the long term,) would be to lose these next few games, miss the playoffs, and be rid of Coughlin.

It's harsh, but the Giants have no business losing the games they are.

Sloopy
11-21-2011, 09:28 AM
1. I'm certainly pulling for you guys. Mostly because of a certain bet, and because it would be nice to see you put a hit on a certain team I can't stand talking about.

2.
A)I too have been waiting for the Tebow implosion. I have waited to say that we can officially put away this college style offense for another decade or so and say it doesn't work until some other team tries it.

Unfortunately it hasn't happened yet and I'm very concerned that they make the playoffs and maybe even pull a knock off similar to the Seahawks last year. Then we will have to hear about Tebow all off season.

B) Does anyone recall the thread about this when certain posters were claiming that this was a brilliant move and in no way do the Raiders fall anywhere short of the AFC championship game? Now they are in question of making the playoffs.

3. Would love to see them play UP to their competition when a certain team comes to town in week 13.

On a side note, another team seemingly ailing from a similar condition is the Ravens. Swept the Steelers but have losses to the Titans, Jags, and Seahawks... its painful :(

4. VY was Tebow before there was a Tebow.

NY+Giants=NYG
11-21-2011, 09:30 AM
If there is an order coming down to do this, then it's completely counter intuitive and wrong.

You blitz and beat up bad QBs. If that defense were turned loose vs. the Redskins, Seahawks, Dolphins, Eagles last night or maybe even the 49ers, you would have crushed the ever loving **** out of them.

Maybe the best thing that can happen (for the long term,) would be to lose these next few games, miss the playoffs, and be rid of Coughlin.

It's harsh, but the Giants have no business losing the games they are.

Very true. It's bad utilization of players. Kiwi is NOT a LB! He is a beast at the line, and for people watching yesterday, giants fan or not, they can agree. In space he is a fish out of water. It's just a wrong system for the personnel we have. Tim Lewis used to do the same thing.

I hope the Rams fire Spags. We clean house, hire spags, and make Spags our HC/DC. This way no team can hire him again so quickly, resulting in another DC change.

If not Spags, give me a defensive minded HC who is good, that can be the DC as well and we don't have to worry about losing a DC. That's my main priority. It's like musical DCs or American Idol, DC edition!

Rosebud
11-21-2011, 09:32 AM
If there is an order coming down to do this, then it's completely counter intuitive and wrong.

You blitz and beat up bad QBs. If that defense were turned loose vs. the Redskins, Seahawks, Dolphins, Eagles last night or maybe even the 49ers, you would have crushed the ever loving **** out of them.

Maybe the best thing that can happen (for the long term,) would be to lose these next few games, miss the playoffs, and be rid of Coughlin.

It's harsh, but the Giants have no business losing the games they are.

But who's to say giving teams less tape of the aggressive things we do and more tape of us sitting back doesn't make us more effective when we do turn up the pressure against the better teams? Cause we have been very good at harassing even the best in the NFL when the team's being aggressive and playing well. I'm annoyed with the losses we have aswell, but if we still get into the playoffs despite those losses they're not that bad of thing in my eyes. Especially since they help keep the team grounded and being in NYC this roster gets over-confident pretty easily when everyone's sucking them off in the media.

I just can't not wonder how much better we look when we do turn up the pressure than we would if we regularly brought exotic blitzes and heat so that teams would game plan specifically to combat that.

Jughead10
11-21-2011, 09:33 AM
It really is maddening. We'll blitz Brady, Vick, and Romo to get them off their games, yet we don't use the same philosophies against Matt Moore or Charlie Whitehurst. It should only work better against crappy QBs.

BeerBaron
11-21-2011, 09:36 AM
But who's to say giving teams less tape of the aggressive things we do and more tape of us sitting back doesn't make us more effective when we do turn up the pressure against the better teams? Cause we have been very good at harassing even the best in the NFL when the team's being aggressive and playing well. I'm annoyed with the losses we have aswell, but if we still get into the playoffs despite those losses they're not that bad of thing in my eyes. Especially since they help keep the team grounded and being in NYC this roster gets over-confident pretty easily when everyone's sucking them off in the media.

I just can't not wonder how much better we look when we do turn up the pressure than we would if we regularly brought exotic blitzes and heat so that teams would game plan specifically to combat that.

I wouldn't worry about that. Take it week by week and do whatever it takes to win the game you have in front of you.

If you worry about the playoffs before actually getting there, you're probably not going to get there at all.

Additionally, no amount of tape would allow an offense to stop a truly determined Giants pass rush with Tuck, Kiwi, JPP and Osi all coming every which way. You stopped the 16-0 Pats by teeing off and getting after Brady...you can do that to ANY team if your coaches would just try it.

Rosebud
11-21-2011, 09:37 AM
Very true. It's bad utilization of players. Kiwi is NOT a LB! He is a beast at the line, and for people watching yesterday, giants fan or not, they can agree. In space he is a fish out of water. It's just a wrong system for the personnel we have. Tim Lewis used to do the same thing.

I hope the Rams fire Spags. We clean house, hire spags, and make Spags our HC/DC. This way no team can hire him again so quickly, resulting in another DC change.

If not Spags, give me a defensive minded HC who is good, that can be the DC as well and we don't have to worry about losing a DC. That's my main priority. It's like musical DCs or American Idol, DC edition!

I thought Kiwi's been really good the past few weeks. He was a big part in shutting down the 9ers running game and he did well corralling McCoy this last one. He shouldn't be spending much time dropping off into coverage, but he's been a great run defender as a linebacker and as we all know can really rush the passer.

That said I would love to see Spags fired by the Rams and brought in as our DC/HC-in-waiting. I actually like Fewell when he has the green light to be aggressive, but I love me some spags.

AntoinCD
11-21-2011, 09:41 AM
Tebow will surely be found out sooner or later.

I believe that the NFL is the type of league that thrives on new system changes to be successful.

The 34 and 46 defenses came in to stop power running, multiple TE teams.

The West Coast Offense came into beat these defenses.

The cover 2 defense came in to counteract the West Coast offense.

We have seen a proliferation of spread type passing offenses to beat cover 2 schemes.

It would not be a ridiculous thought to say that the Broncos could bring in a run option type offense and make it work particluarly with defenses getting smaller and faster to defend the pass. However in today's game where scoring is up and the rules are designed to help high flying passing offenses, defenses are more likely to adapt to this system used by the Broncos quicker than say the Pats or Packers offenses.

If Tebow could even threaten to be a legitimate passer then it could work. Force defenses to play out of their base package and send multiple players on routes.

However to think he could have a 25% completion, with 2 completions and less than 100 yards passing and still win is because of bad defensive play.

Against the Jets if Eric Smith played it properly Tebow doesn't score the go ahead TD. Too many players lack the discipline to play against this tyoe of offense. However the more teams see of it the better they will adapt.

NY+Giants=NYG
11-21-2011, 09:41 AM
I thought Kiwi's been really good the past few weeks. He was a big part in shutting down the 9ers running game and he did well corralling McCoy this last one. He shouldn't be spending much time dropping off into coverage, but he's been a great run defender as a linebacker and as we all know can really rush the passer.

That said I would love to see Spags fired by the Rams and brought in as our DC/HC-in-waiting. I actually like Fewell when he has the green light to be aggressive, but I love me some spags.

Yes by the LOS. That's been very good. In space, he is a god awful mess. I think someone super glued his cleats to the turf.

Rosebud
11-21-2011, 09:45 AM
I wouldn't worry about that. Take it week by week and do whatever it takes to win the game you have in front of you.

If you worry about the playoffs before actually getting there, you're probably not going to get there at all.

Additionally, no amount of tape would allow an offense to stop a truly determined Giants pass rush with Tuck, Kiwi, JPP and Osi all coming every which way. You stopped the 16-0 Pats by teeing off and getting after Brady...you can do that to ANY team if your coaches would just try it.

Oh I agree, but when year after year we do better than expected against the top passing teams you have to start wondering if maybe we aren't suckering teams into letting us blitz the **** out of them. So instead of coming out throwing screens and delayed handoffs left and right to combat our pass rush, teams come out and try to run their normal offense since they've seen so much tape of us being lazy and sitting back. Then when we do come out all guns blazing *bam* they don't see it coming as much as they should've and aren't as prepared for it as they should've been.

Again you have a completely reasonable point, but other than the last two years where injuries just decimated the team down the stretch, the giants have made it into the playoffs using their best stuff just against their best opponents. So it becomes something that the success lets you forgive as a fan, even though it's infuriating after games like that. But you know, if the giants go on to win one of the games against the packers and Saints while playing really close in the other one with two matchups with Dallas on the docket I'd say that we'll be in a strong position to secure a playoff spot with momentum and without the over-confidence this team has shown a tendency to exhibit.

Rosebud
11-21-2011, 09:47 AM
Yes by the LOS. That's been very good. In space, he is a god awful mess. I think someone super glued his cleats to the turf.

Fair enough. He just shouldn't spend much time in space. That's on Fewell's vanilla play calling that I blame on Coughlin.

sweetness34
11-21-2011, 09:51 AM
The Giants injuries are catching up. People are IR is one kick in the nuts. But when your other guys are missing games it's hard to get consistency. This starts with the OL.

Also, I am ready to fire Fewell! 3 man rush? F that man, this defense was build to get after the QB! 3 man rush against a backup QB is BS! If that means firing Coughlin to get rid of him, and Gilbride then so be it. I am done watching this mess.

I though the defense played pretty damn well last night (although I didn't see the last 5 minutes). 3 turnovers and 17 points? Seems to me that the offense were the main culprits for the loss.

scottyboy
11-21-2011, 09:52 AM
when you have 3rd and longs, and you're sending only 3 rushers with a converted DE to LB and rookies at LB giving soft zones you're going to get murdered. Especially against guys like Avant and Celek over the middle. The Giants are just so ******* frustrating. But again, given our track record and hopefully getting Boley and Bradshaw back, we're far from dead. I can see us possibly beating the Saints, losing to GB, splitting the Cowboys, and we better beat the ******* Redskins. I also think we could beat the Jets as well, but we'll see

scottyboy
11-21-2011, 09:54 AM
I though the defense played pretty damn well last night (although I didn't see the last 5 minutes). 3 turnovers and 17 points? Seems to me that the offense were the main culprits for the loss.

the Oline was just a hot mess. Our best running back last night (Ware) got knocked out at half. Jacobs blows. And credit to the Eagles front 7, they were everywhere. Cole, Parker and Babin lived in our backfield and patterson looked very, very good.

BeerBaron
11-21-2011, 10:06 AM
"Rush the passer" should be the answer to any Giants related issue, even if it's the offense that is struggling. Vince threw 3 picks against a soft defense...I have to imagine that with a little pressure forcing him to throw inaccurate passes with his bad release, the Giants could have squeezed another one or two out of him.

NY+Giants=NYG
11-21-2011, 10:12 AM
I though the defense played pretty damn well last night (although I didn't see the last 5 minutes). 3 turnovers and 17 points? Seems to me that the offense were the main culprits for the loss.

Hey man, what's going on? Props to your bears. They are fun to watch this year. Sorry about Cutler. He was playing well. I hope you guys extend Forte! Great RB and a pleasure to watch.

Well, consider the QB. Young just made poor throws and we were there to get the int. But it was one of those games you need to see the whole thing. That big drive the Eagles had we had tons of 3rd down chances and couldn't get off the field.

3 man rushes are not good with our defense. Why have all those DEs if you plan on using 2 of them? Also, zone isn't what this team is build for. Basically, Young had all day to throw it. Eagles skill players were sitting in the zone, texting their friends and family, and when Young finished his coffee he would throw it to the WR, who made the catch easily and moved up field.

This happened all through the game. This game was close because Young was terrible. Had Vick been in the game I cringe to see the final result. Young kept us in the game. One would think Fewell could dial the pressure consistently, but when I saw those 3 man rushes and no blitzes, I knew this would be a long day.

Rosebud
11-21-2011, 10:13 AM
"Rush the passer" should be the answer to any Giants related issue, even if it's the offense that is struggling. Vince threw 3 picks against a soft defense...I have to imagine that with a little pressure forcing him to throw inaccurate passes with his bad release, the Giants could have squeezed another one or two out of him.

You'd think so but no. We're a balanced team, we need to be balanced even if the OL is getting reamed, the running game suffocated and the receivers decide that it's a good day for drops. Can't dial up the D to try and compensate for a struggling offense, gotta win by being balanced.

BeerBaron
11-21-2011, 10:16 AM
You'd think so but no. We're a balanced team, we need to be balanced even if the OL is getting reamed, the running game suffocated and the receivers decide that it's a good day for drops. Can't dial up the D to try and compensate for a struggling offense, gotta win by being balanced.

You lost by 7 to a Vince Young led team. If you could have stopped him on that one good drive when the score was tied up, the end result may have been very different.

I've watched enough Bears football over the years to see that even when the offense is playing bad, the defense getting pressure and forcing turnovers can be the best remedy.

The Giants forced a few despite playing soft on defense and giving Young time. I have to think they could have done more if they tried to pressure him.

BeerBaron
11-21-2011, 10:20 AM
A page in and all Giants talk so far....would anyone else like to discuss something different?

Rosebud
11-21-2011, 10:22 AM
You lost by 7 to a Vince Young led team. If you could have stopped him on that one good drive when the score was tied up, the end result may have been very different.

I've watched enough Bears football over the years to see that even when the offense is playing bad, the defense getting pressure and forcing turnovers can be the best remedy.

The Giants forced a few despite playing soft on defense and giving Young time. I have to think they could have done more if they tried to pressure him.

Yeah, but then we'd be winning despite our offense and that's just not acceptable. We need to be winning because we're balanced or we shouldn't win at all!...

ellipsis included to make sure it's clear I'm being facetious.

BeerBaron
11-21-2011, 10:24 AM
Yeah, but then we'd be winning despite our offense and that's just not acceptable. We need to be winning because we're balanced or we shouldn't win at all!...

ellipsis included to make sure it's clear I'm being facetious.

A win is a win. Any coach or player would take the ugliest, most awful, imbalanced, god forsaken win over the most well played loss. You need to win games like this because you've got some tough ones coming up while the Cowboys do not.

Rosebud
11-21-2011, 10:25 AM
A page in and all Giants talk so far....would anyone else like to discuss something different?

You're right about the lack of Leon Hall being the biggest thing to come out of the past two weeks for the Bengals and the bears still having a chance if Hanie can just be solid this next month and a half.

While the 9ers have been really successful I don't think there's enough separation between them and the rest of the Packer chasers to clearly say that they're the second best team. They're having the second best season, if that subtlety makes sense.

49ersfan_87
11-21-2011, 10:30 AM
How about the number of teams poised to break their long playoff droughts? The 49ers, Raiders, Texans, and Lions all have good shots of making the playoffs for the first time in about 8 or 9 years (first time ever for Houston). Its great that its all happening in one year too. Nothings confirmed yet but its looking likely that all 4 teams make the playoffs this year, and it'll be nice to see these teams after a long abscence.

Missing from that list is Buffalo, as mentioned in the OP. I was rooting for the Bills to make the playoffs this year, but it looks like it won't happen. I don't wish for any fan to go through multiple years of futility, but it looks like this will be their 12th straight year of missing the playoffs. Fitzpatrick has regressed and the decision to give him a 6 year deal is looking worse and worse each game. They haven't even competed in any of their last 3 games and right now look lucky to break even at 8-8. If NE loses they'll only be 1 game back with a tiebreaker advantage over NE but at this point, they're more likely to end up in last place than first.

TimmG6376
11-21-2011, 10:32 AM
If there is an argument against the 49ers it is their 26th ranked pass defense. Especially when the teams they may be playing come playoffs are the 1st and 3rd ranked pass offenses (Saints and Packers). Yes I know they don't give up points, but allowing Rodgers into the red zone is like russian roulette if they end up playing the Packers in the playoffs. The Packers defense is nothing to boast about obviously but they've shown that they can win shootouts.

BeerBaron
11-21-2011, 10:35 AM
The 49ers pass defense is definitely concerning, but they are "bend but don't break" in that fashion, as evidenced by the major lack of points allowed. They've been so good at stopping the run that many teams have been forced to abandon it in favor of going pass wacky, which inflates the number a bit too.

With the good scoring defense plus the propensity for turnovers, I think the 49ers pass defense is good enough to "get by" with.

The Ravens will be another good test and it's a game I'm excited for. With Torrey Smith breaking out, Joe Flacco finally has a legitimate deep thread (as opposed to Anquan Boldin running routes 40 yards down the field with no separation....)

I'm really looking forward to that game.

Rosebud
11-21-2011, 10:40 AM
The 49ers pass defense is definitely concerning, but they are "bend but don't break" in that fashion, as evidenced by the major lack of points allowed. They've been so good at stopping the run that many teams have been forced to abandon it in favor of going pass wacky, which inflates the number a bit too.

With the good scoring defense plus the propensity for turnovers, I think the 49ers pass defense is good enough to "get by" with.

The Ravens will be another good test and it's a game I'm excited for. With Torrey Smith breaking out, Joe Flacco finally has a legitimate deep thread (as opposed to Anquan Boldin running routes 40 yards down the field with no separation....)

I'm really looking forward to that game.

I dunno man, I haven't seen them enough times to be sure, but it seems that the better passing attacks should be able to move the ball against them at will and only the 9ers great redzone D makes up for that. I mean the giants where moving the ball great between the 20s and when they just avoided the redzone by attacking the endzone from further away they even managed to put points on the board. I think it was against Dallas? That they also struggled immensely against the pass...probably not Dallas but I'm too lazy to check.

scottyboy
11-21-2011, 10:43 AM
the 49ers red zone D is good which is a huge key to their success and why their bend but don't break D works. Their corners kinda really suck, but if you're in the 15, the stiffen up and with their very good front line along with having some filthy LBers, it's tough to punch it in for 7 against them when you can't just beat their corners deep over the top

brat316
11-21-2011, 10:45 AM
STEELERS = SUPERBOWL WINZZZZ

Also JORDYZZZ NELSONZZZZ is having a helluva year.

49ersfan_87
11-21-2011, 10:46 AM
If there is an argument against the 49ers it is their 26th ranked pass defense. Especially when the teams they may be playing come playoffs are the 1st and 3rd ranked pass offenses (Saints and Packers). Yes I know they don't give up points, but allowing Rodgers into the red zone is like russian roulette if they end up playing the Packers in the playoffs. The Packers defense is nothing to boast about obviously but they've shown that they can win shootouts.

The pass defense ranking is a little misleading. One, their run d is great so teams don't really bother with it and just gameplan to attack the pass. Two, the 49ers have given up a lot of bulk passing yards, but i'm pretty sure they're high up there in terms of passes defensed, opposing YPA and opposing QBR (meaning passing offenses are not that efficient). For example, take a look at the Lions game. Stafford had 293 yards and 2 TD's, most would think he played well. In reality he passed the ball 50 times (YPA of 5.86) and had a completion percentage of 56% with a QBR of 86.

That being said..you're right in that it can be a weakness against good QB's, especially Rodgers. Romo and Vick absolutely torched the Secondary and Manning had a very good game too. The Packers and the Saints would be the toughest matchups for the 49ers in the playoffs and if the 49ers want to go to the Superbowl there's a decent chance they'll have to beat both of these teams.

BeerBaron
11-21-2011, 10:47 AM
Carlos Rogers is having a pretty good year, but he's really the only member of the 49ers secondary worth a damn.

That very well could end up being their Achilles heel, but traditionally, having the #1 run D, #1 scoring D and best turnover differential makes you a tough out in the playoffs.

Rosebud
11-21-2011, 10:48 AM
the 49ers red zone D is good which is a huge key to their success and why their bend but don't break D works. Their corners kinda really suck, but if you're in the 15, the stiffen up and with their very good front line along with having some filthy LBers, it's tough to punch it in for 7 against them when you can't just beat their corners deep over the top

Yep, if they can keep the big plays in the passing game out the endzone they're really dangerous. Which is why I'm still pissed Eli didn't connect with mario on that final drive. Once it got into the redzone with our mediocre redzone O I started to suspect that it was over.

scottyboy
11-21-2011, 10:51 AM
they've got a good formula. Very good front 7, good OL, good runningbacks, pretty good playmakers on O and a veteran game manager with mobility, and a ballsy, smart head coach. I just don't see them as the 2nd best team in the NFL. But then again, you can't argue with their results. Not one bit.

brat316
11-21-2011, 10:55 AM
I do love that the 49ers are playing tough grind it out football. Something I wish the Steelers would get back to.

Might they bring the run game and tough defense back to the NFL, maybe. Each year the NFL moves from trend to trend and then comes back around full circle.

4-3, 46, 4-3, cover 2, 4-3, 3-4, 4-3.

1 Rb, WCO, 2 RB, Wildcat, Spread,...still waiting for that power running game(Damn new NFL rules)

AntoinCD
11-21-2011, 10:59 AM
they've got a good formula. Very good front 7, good OL, good runningbacks, pretty good playmakers on O and a veteran game manager with mobility, and a ballsy, smart head coach. I just don't see them as the 2nd best team in the NFL. But then again, you can't argue with their results. Not one bit.

I agree here. I really like how the 49ers are set up, however I think it will be tough for them to be really successful against the better teams. It's tough to see them match up against Atlanta, New Orleans, Detroit and Green Bay if they all get to the playoffs. Then they could face Pittsburgh or New England in the Superbowl. All of those teams offer pretty tough matchups. They would have a great matchup against Baltimore if it went that way and we'll see how they go against them on Thursday. I just think in today's NFL you need to be able to score points quickly because no matter how good your defense is one of these teams will score 25+ points.

It's hard to argue they aren't up there with a 9-1 record and one OT loss, but in the playoffs I would definitely take GB and NO over them and be 50/50 with Atlanta. I would definitely give them the edge over Detroit but if Stafford played well they can score as well as any team.

BeerBaron
11-21-2011, 11:02 AM
Why Atlanta? Atlanta tries to pounds the rock with the slow and fat Michael Turner and can't rely on Ryan to carry them.

I'd have the 49ers as huge favorites over Atlanta.

scottyboy
11-21-2011, 11:08 AM
Yeah, I'm not a believer in the Falcons anymore. If the Giants make the playoff (huge if), we've shown we can hang with the niners and that'd actually be one hell of a game in the playoffs. Maybe that's just me being a homer, but still.

I just think they'd have trouble with the big play passing games of the Packers and Saints for sure. But they're a good young team with a couple pieces away from being a steady contender I feel

LonghornsLegend
11-21-2011, 11:08 AM
The Chargers and Giants could possibly be looking for a new Head Coach at the end of the season. Talk about some really great landing places for a new Head Coach to start.

BeerBaron
11-21-2011, 11:09 AM
The Chargers and Giants could possibly be looking for a new Head Coach at the end of the season. Talk about some really great landing places for a new Head Coach to start.

I would put the Chargers at 95% likely barring a massive turnaround.

Coughlin still has a bit of Superbowl good will and the Giants are in a better position overall than the Chargers, so even if they miss the playoffs, I'd have his firing as a 50% shot at best.

AntoinCD
11-21-2011, 11:22 AM
Why Atlanta? Atlanta tries to pounds the rock with the slow and fat Michael Turner and can't rely on Ryan to carry them.

I'd have the 49ers as huge favorites over Atlanta.

Against a team like the 49ers they would realise(well at least you'd think) that Turner isn't going to have much of an effect. With that being said they have the players on offense to be very effective through the air. I don't see the 49ers being able to cover White, Julio, Gonzalez and Harry Douglas all game. The Falcons have shown that they can score quickly and if the 49ers get in a hole then I dont see them coming back

jrdrylie
11-21-2011, 11:29 AM
I don't think Coughlin is fired this year but Turner's ass if burning from sitting on that hot seat for so long. It will be interesting to see if big name coaches (Cowher, Gruden, Billick, Fisher) want to get back in coaching. I'm also looking forward to seeing who goes after Andy Reid after he resigns.

Who are the coordinators that might get a look this offseason? Rob Ryan has the bloodlines. Joe Philbin is having great success in Green Bay. A lot of people talk about Russ Grimm and Brian Schottenheimer, but neither of them really impress me.

Edit: I've also heard a lot of people say Les Miles could eventually get a job in the NFL. Good luck with that. The dud is crazy and his time mismanagement rivals Lovie Smith. Very few college coaches find success in the NFL. I don't think Miles is one of those few.

BeerBaron
11-21-2011, 11:38 AM
I don't think Coughlin is fired this year but Turner's ass if burning from sitting on that hot seat for so long. It will be interesting to see if big name coaches (Cowher, Gruden, Billick, Fisher) want to get back in coaching. I'm also looking forward to seeing who goes after Andy Reid after he resigns.

Who are the coordinators that might get a look this offseason? Rob Ryan has the bloodlines. Joe Philbin is having great success in Green Bay. A lot of people talk about Russ Grimm and Brian Schottenheimer, but neither of them really impress me.

Edit: I've also heard a lot of people say Les Miles could eventually get a job in the NFL. Good luck with that. The dud is crazy and his time mismanagement rivals Lovie Smith. Very few college coaches find success in the NFL. I don't think Miles is one of those few.

It really depends on the team I think.

Any team that needs a kick in the ass should consider Rob Ryan. He might be a good choice for a team with a veteran roster which has gotten a bit lazy/complacent. (San Diego?)

I think that if the Eagles miss the playoffs (which is still likely despite last night's win,) Reid resigns. The team won't need to fire him and he can go out on his terms. If so, he would be a VERY appealing option for a team needing to develop a young roster. If Indy does what I'm hoping they'll do and shitcans the whole staff from Polian down, he'd make an interesting pick there. Reid developing Luck? That would be genius.

Miami is playing reasonably well right now, but they're still a "boring" team. Stephen Ross wants a team to compete in the area with the Heat, so I look for him to try and lure in Cowher or Gruden. He could possibly be interested in Reid too if he resigns.

And you never know what the Redskins will do. No coach other than Joe Gibbs has lasted more than 2 seasons under Dan Snyder, and Shanahan may be no different. You never know what direction they'll go in.

It's strange to think about, but if things go particularly badly for each team, 3/4 of the NFC East may have different coaches next year. Unlikely but not impossible if the Giants, Eagles and Redskins struggle the rest of the way.

Jughead10
11-21-2011, 11:42 AM
Miami is going to be a tough sell to any of those big time former NFL coaches. Unless any of them are just absolutely in love with a QB in this draft other than Luck.

BeerBaron
11-21-2011, 11:50 AM
Miami is going to be a tough sell to any of those big time former NFL coaches. Unless any of them are just absolutely in love with a QB in this draft other than Luck.

And with each Miami win, even those other QBs are being put further and further out of reach.

And sticking Matt Moore isn't a long term option. I don't care how well he's playing now, he's likely another Garrard/Fitzpatrick waiting to happen.

Jughead10
11-21-2011, 11:53 AM
None of those coaches want to lose. Not even in year 1. They're established and don't want to rebuild. Especially Cowher.

JBCX
11-21-2011, 11:56 AM
What I drew from Week 11 is that both the Bears and the Giants are done as playoff contenders.

BeerBaron
11-21-2011, 11:56 AM
None of those coaches want to lose. Not even in year 1. They're established and don't want to rebuild. Especially Cowher.

Cowher could be a solid pick for the Giants....just saying. He'd be inheriting a playoff ready team with lots of defensive talent.

Jughead10
11-21-2011, 11:58 AM
Cowher could be a solid pick for the Giants....just saying. He'd be inheriting a playoff ready team with lots of defensive talent.

According to a lot of reports he's been patiently waiting for 2 years already.

BeerBaron
11-21-2011, 11:59 AM
According to a lot of reports he's been patiently waiting for 2 years already.

1.) Hire Cowher as the coaching overseer
2.) Hire the newly fired Spags as DC to be Cowher's "LeBeau"
3.) ????
4.) SUPERBOWLZZ!!

scottyboy
11-21-2011, 12:02 PM
1.) Hire Cowher as the coaching overseer
2.) Hire the newly fired Spags as DC to be Cowher's "LeBeau"
3.) ????
4.) SUPERBOWLZZ!!

Number 3 would be hire the newly fired Norv Turner to be the OC.

Superstar coaching staff.

profit

Giantsfan1080
11-21-2011, 12:06 PM
Please no Cowher for the Giants.

Jughead10
11-21-2011, 12:08 PM
Please no Cowher for the Giants.

I don't want him either, but if Coughlin gets fired, Cowher's name will be the first one brought up.

scottyboy
11-21-2011, 12:10 PM
I still want Ditka to coach in the league again. He makes me giggle on tv. it might be his 'stache, but still

BeerBaron
11-21-2011, 12:11 PM
I think you'd more than likely end up with the newly fired Whisenhunt than Turner....

Turner would be a very hot OC coaching candidate though and could have an impact like Wade Phillips did on the Texans defense.

Both of those guys are stud coordinators that just do not have "it" to head the whole thing.

MetSox17
11-21-2011, 12:17 PM
Despite all the instability in both offensive line and wide receiver play, Tony Romo is quietly putting up a Top-5 Qb year.

Raiderz4Life
11-21-2011, 12:20 PM
Honestly...I'll take a 1 and done for now with the Raiders...would be nice to make the tourney for the first time since 2002

Jughead10
11-21-2011, 12:20 PM
Despite all the instability in both offensive line and wide receiver play, Tony Romo is quietly putting up a Top-5 Qb year.

Why does he still hold? Can't you get someone else to do that. How much quicker did Shanahan get that TO off? I was watching that game without sound.

Xonraider
11-21-2011, 12:21 PM
Honestly...I'll take a 1 and done for now with the Raiders...would be nice to make the tourney for the first time since 2002

Yup, so would I. Plus, it gives a young team playoff experience and hopes for the future.

MetSox17
11-21-2011, 12:27 PM
Why does he still hold? Can't you get someone else to do that. How much quicker did Shanahan get that TO off? I was watching that game without sound.

Well, he was holding for a few weeks while Mat McBriar was out with a nerve issue on his planting foot, this was his first week back from injury and they cleared him just for punts, nothing else. Behind McBriar, he's the most experienced holder from his days as a backup.

Shanny looked to get the timeout with maybe two seconds left on the playclock and Bailey still hadn't set up, lol. To be honest, i don't think it would have mattered much, but if Bailey kicked it the exact same way he did the game winner, from five yards back, it would have gone wide right.

Raiderz4Life
11-21-2011, 12:32 PM
Yup, so would I. Plus, it gives a young team playoff experience and hopes for the future.

I think our run game and if the defense tightens up....we may even win a game....would be awesome...but lol gotta get in first

BeerBaron
11-21-2011, 12:34 PM
Honestly...I'll take a 1 and done for now with the Raiders...would be nice to make the tourney for the first time since 2002

Yup, so would I. Plus, it gives a young team playoff experience and hopes for the future.

There's no such thing as a moral victory in the NFL. Win or go home.

We're all seeing what good a one-and-done did for the Chiefs last year out of that division.

Plus, with all they gave up for Palmer, they need more out of him than a one-and-done. A deep playoff run in this season or next is an absolute must to justify the picks they gave up.

Raiderz4Life
11-21-2011, 12:39 PM
There's no such thing as a moral victory in the NFL. Win or go home.

We're all seeing what good a one-and-done did for the Chiefs last year out of that division.

Plus, with all they gave up for Palmer, they need more out of him than a one-and-done. A deep playoff run in this season or next is an absolute must to justify the picks they gave up.

I still don't agree with that trade...i see it as an unjustifiable loss..what i want now is to see progress...idk

BeerBaron
11-21-2011, 12:42 PM
I still don't agree with that trade...i see it as an unjustifiable loss..what i want now is to see progress...idk

Justified - Raiders win a Superbowl this season or next

Excused - Raiders make a deep playoff run this season or next

Nothing else will work. With a first and second round pick, you at least have the chance to add two players who could be key cogs in your team for the next decade.

Not so with a 30-something QB with an injury history and who, so far this season, has bounced somewhere between turnover machine and above average game manager.

ATLDirtyBirds
11-21-2011, 12:44 PM
Why Atlanta? Atlanta tries to pounds the rock with the slow and fat Michael Turner and can't rely on Ryan to carry them.

I'd have the 49ers as huge favorites over Atlanta.

Turner's back, at least to some degree. He's got some of that leg drive/speed back that has been gone the last 2 years.

Xonraider
11-21-2011, 12:47 PM
There's no such thing as a moral victory in the NFL. Win or go home.

We're all seeing what good a one-and-done did for the Chiefs last year out of that division.

Plus, with all they gave up for Palmer, they need more out of him than a one-and-done. A deep playoff run in this season or next is an absolute must to justify the picks they gave up.

However there is such thing as experience, and having a Raiders team go to the playoffs is just something to keep building on.

BeerBaron
11-21-2011, 01:03 PM
Turner's back, at least to some degree. He's got some of that leg drive/speed back that has been gone the last 2 years.

He still looks fat, and he's still fairly slow. I think his recent weeks success has been more a case of the o-line getting it together rather than Turner really being back. He's no longer "The Burner."

However there is such thing as experience, and having a Raiders team go to the playoffs is just something to keep building on.

Ehh, getting to the playoffs and getting smacked around by the Ravens isn't likely to be a confidence booster.

Obviously, you'd rather get to the playoffs than not get to the playoffs, but let's not pretend that it's a magic potion that means you'll get back better than ever next year.

MetSox17
11-21-2011, 01:05 PM
The Raiders might get lucky and run into Bad Joe Flacco

BeerBaron
11-21-2011, 01:10 PM
The Raiders might get lucky and run into Bad Joe Flacco

If Torrey Smith keeps up this level of play and Cam Cameron doesn't go crazy imbalanced, bad Flacco might not show up for a while. Torrey is just what the doctor ordered for him. He's not especially accurate, but can launch the deep ball. Smith takes the top off the defense and opens all the shorter stuff, making Flacco's inaccuracy less of a concern.

Bengalsrocket
11-21-2011, 01:24 PM
I like your subtle optimism for the Bengals. It is possible to make to the play offs for this team, just requires a little luck and a lot of hard work from here on out.

The problem with Leon Hall is that he can't cover the deep ball anyways. So even if we had him for the Baltimore game, we likely would have given up just as many big plays to their burners like Torrey Smith.

Right now our running game is close to the worst in the NFL if not the worst. Furthermore, missing Shipley and Green takes away both our underneath and over the top game.

Dalton didn't necessarily look like a rookie yesterday. He just had no help around him. We need to fix our running game asap if we want a chance at the play offs.

AntoinCD
11-21-2011, 01:30 PM
If Torrey Smith keeps up this level of play and Cam Cameron doesn't go crazy imbalanced, bad Flacco might not show up for a while. Torrey is just what the doctor ordered for him. He's not especially accurate, but can launch the deep ball. Smith takes the top off the defense and opens all the shorter stuff, making Flacco's inaccuracy less of a concern.

Cameron has to be at fault for the Ravens not at least getting to one SB in the last few years. His horrible play calling has cost them big games and chances at homefield advantage throughout the playoffs before. He still hasn't learned though. Two weeks ago what was it 40 passes by Flacco and 5 runs by Ray Rice? Absolute joke of a play caller

ATLDirtyBirds
11-21-2011, 01:32 PM
He still looks fat, and he's still fairly slow. I think his recent weeks success has been more a case of the o-line getting it together rather than Turner really being back. He's no longer "The Burner."



Well to be fair, he's always looked like a chub, and the Burner never really made much sense. The fact is he's back to running through people and picking up additional yardage, instead of just falling forward. Changes at LT and RG have helped immensely, but Turner's noticeably different from the guy I've been calling overrated the past few years.

Xonraider
11-21-2011, 01:38 PM
Ehh, getting to the playoffs and getting smacked around by the Ravens isn't likely to be a confidence booster.

Obviously, you'd rather get to the playoffs than not get to the playoffs, but let's not pretend that it's a magic potion that means you'll get back better than ever next year.

Well, obviously getting smacked isn't a confidence booster but getting to the playoffs is going to be mayor progress considering what this organization has been through the last 8 years, perhaps you don't see it that way but I'm sure almost every Raiders fan and player does.

BeerBaron
11-21-2011, 01:41 PM
I like your subtle optimism for the Bengals. It is possible to make to the play offs for this team, just requires a little luck and a lot of hard work from here on out.

The problem with Leon Hall is that he can't cover the deep ball anyways. So even if we had him for the Baltimore game, we likely would have given up just as many big plays to their burners like Torrey Smith.

Right now our running game is close to the worst in the NFL if not the worst. Furthermore, missing Shipley and Green takes away both our underneath and over the top game.

Dalton didn't necessarily look like a rookie yesterday. He just had no help around him. We need to fix our running game asap if we want a chance at the play offs.

Well, even if Hall wasn't great against the deep ball, Zimmer would probably have had more confidence in him than Jennings so he could have played the safeties off more.

Losing one great player tends to have a trickle down effect to where you'll start struggling in other areas you wouldn't think would be as effected by his absence.

Lucky for the Bengals, that 6th seed will be hard to lose with a couple easy games left as well as rematches vs. the Steelers and Ravens. I think they could steal one of those games.

The Raiders and Broncos really only seem like threats for that division, so all you need to do is stay ahead of the Jets. Definitely doable for Cincy.

Cameron has to be at fault for the Ravens not at least getting to one SB in the last few years. His horrible play calling has cost them big games and chances at homefield advantage throughout the playoffs before. He still hasn't learned though. Two weeks ago what was it 40 passes by Flacco and 5 runs by Ray Rice? Absolute joke of a play caller

I don't know what Cameron is thinking. I really don't. That offense could be sooooo much better than it is.

Flacco may not be great, but they have a good possession target in Boldin, a deep threat in Smith, Evans coming back from injury, and a pair of TEs who, if used properly, could be a Lite-version of what the Patriots have. Throw in Rice and damn....there's no reason for that not to be a great offense.

Except for the play calling.

BeerBaron
11-21-2011, 03:28 PM
Addendum to my thoughts on Tebow:


http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/11/21/elway-broncos-are-no-closer-to-finding-quarterback-of-future/

Even the Broncos front office realizes this won't work.

Elway and Fox probably sit across from eachother in meetings shaking their heads and saying "WTF man? How is this happening?"

They'll take it, but even they realize this isn't going to work forever. Better to get working on finding that next guy now while the fanbase is appeased with Tebow.

RaiderNation
11-21-2011, 03:32 PM
I thought Cutler and the Bears were the only team that could stop Green Bay from having a perfect regular season. I think Chicago will probably compete for a Wild Card spot until the final week. I have Atlanta and Detroit/Dallas as the NFC Wild Cards.

As for the Raiders, yes it was an ugly win but I think we have good grasp on the division now. Tebow will fall off, hopefully they are playing some good teams because I'm tired of all the praise he gets.

Breed
11-21-2011, 03:38 PM
I agree about the 9ers, i think they make it to the SB vs Oakland.

BeerBaron
11-21-2011, 03:39 PM
I agree about the 9ers, i think they make it to the SB vs Oakland.

If that actually happens, you'll be the only guy on Earth (other than perhaps some Bay area homers) who could say "I told you so."

Raiderz4Life
11-21-2011, 03:50 PM
If that actually happens, you'll be the only guy on Earth (other than perhaps some Bay area homers) who could say "I told you so."

You replied back....you warming up to Breed there BB?

BeerBaron
11-21-2011, 03:52 PM
You replied back....you warming up to Breed there BB?

I got my cathartic release. I'm immune to him bothering me any further. Plus in this case, what he said is just so ridiculous that it's funny.

Vox Populi
11-21-2011, 04:08 PM
I like your subtle optimism for the Bengals. It is possible to make to the play offs for this team, just requires a little luck and a lot of hard work from here on out.

The problem with Leon Hall is that he can't cover the deep ball anyways. So even if we had him for the Baltimore game, we likely would have given up just as many big plays to their burners like Torrey Smith.

Right now our running game is close to the worst in the NFL if not the worst. Furthermore, missing Shipley and Green takes away both our underneath and over the top game.

Dalton didn't necessarily look like a rookie yesterday. He just had no help around him. We need to fix our running game asap if we want a chance at the play offs.

Honestly, unless the Jets turn things around, or the Bengals finish 10-6, the 6th seed is theirs. The Jets will more than likely finish with a 4-2 divisional record at this point, so the Bengals just need to be 1 game better than them (10-6 is my best guess), and they easily have the last wildcard spot over the Jets, Broncos/Raiders and at this point I think the Chargers, Bills and AFC South can be ruled out as wildcards.

Timbathia
11-21-2011, 04:20 PM
Addendum to my thoughts on Tebow:


http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/11/21/elway-broncos-are-no-closer-to-finding-quarterback-of-future/

Even the Broncos front office realizes this won't work.

Elway and Fox probably sit across from eachother in meetings shaking their heads and saying "WTF man? How is this happening?"

They'll take it, but even they realize this isn't going to work forever. Better to get working on finding that next guy now while the fanbase is appeased with Tebow.

There is a big difference between what you said and what he said. Very few people are saying it will work, but many are suggesting (including Elway and Fox) that it will take a lot of improvement (i.e. third down completions) but could work. They are expressing the same doubts most people have, but never said it wont work.

NY+Giants=NYG
11-21-2011, 08:14 PM
Well we lost yet another CB.

T. Thomas
Bruce Johnson
Tryon
Brian Williams - injury settlement
Michael Coe


Last year it was the WRs that went kaput! Now it's the damn Cbs on this team!

Brent
11-21-2011, 08:47 PM
6.) The 49ers are the 2nd best team in the NFL.

No, not just the NFC...in all of football. But for an overtime loss to the Cowboys, this team could still be undefeated. Think about that for a second.

And for weeks, people continued to question them because they hadn't beaten anyone particularly good. Then, they go and beat the Giants. Not only are they beating the good teams they do face, they are crushing the teams they SHOULD beat. (Which is the polar opposite of what the Giants are doing right now...)

They have the #1 scoring defense and the #1 rushing defense...two categories that have traditionally boded well for teams entering the playoffs.

They're also #1 in the league in turnover differential at +17...which is +5 more than anyone else.

The 49ers are a team that doesn't allow many points, doesn't allow you to run the ball, and doesn't turn it over while doing a good job of forcing turnovers. They are going to be a VERY tough team to beat this year.
They played like garbage against the Cardinals. They should have scored about 21 more points than they did. Luckily there are 4 more division games and they have Pittsburgh at home (how that wasn't flexed shocks me).

BeerBaron
11-21-2011, 09:06 PM
They played like garbage against the Cardinals. They should have scored about 21 more points than they did. Luckily there are 4 more division games and they have Pittsburgh at home (how that wasn't flexed shocks me).

It was probably protected by the network it was originally on.

And while you may have played bad against the Cardinals, you still only gave up 7 points. That's about as good of a bad day as one can get.

JBCX
11-22-2011, 08:51 AM
Turner's back, at least to some degree. He's got some of that leg drive/speed back that has been gone the last 2 years.

Turner might just be held to negative YPA against the 49ers run defense.

brat316
11-22-2011, 12:59 PM
Eagles DC celebrating cause he thinks he did something good, by helping win the game. No you probably would have helped blow the game if not for, ughhh Vince Young holding on to the ball for 9 minutes. Cause of Babin making a strip sack, he will get credit for the game. Fire them all now.


Sure D played very well for the first 3 Q, as usual. But then it started to blow it in the 4th Q if not for VY.

JBCX
11-22-2011, 06:14 PM
Eagles DC celebrating cause he thinks he did something good, by helping win the game. No you probably would have helped blow the game if not for, ughhh Vince Young holding on to the ball for 9 minutes. Cause of Babin making a strip sack, he will get credit for the game. Fire them all now.


Sure D played very well for the first 3 Q, as usual. But then it started to blow it in the 4th Q if not for VY.

Let's see what he can do against Tom Brady.