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Brent
11-22-2011, 08:23 AM
Last Week: 9-5
Overall: 109-51

Thursday
Green Bay @ Detroit
Miami @ Dallas
San Francisco @ Baltimore

Sunday
Houston @ Jacksonville
Buffalo @ NY Jets
Cleveland @ Cincinnati
Minnesota @ Atlanta
Arizona @ St Louis
Carolina @ Indianapolis
Tampa Bay @ Tennessee
Chicago @ Oakland
Washington @ Seattle
Denver @ San Diego
New England @ Philadelphia
Pittsburgh @ Kansas City

Monday
NY Giants @ New Orleans

Rosebud
11-22-2011, 09:16 AM
Week 1: 9-7
Week 2: 13-3
Week 3: 10-6
Week 4: 10-6
Week 5: 8-5
Week 6: 11-2
Week 7: 7-6
Week 8: 10-3
Week 9: 8-6
Week 10: 10-6
Week 11: 9-5
Overall: 105-55

Thursday
Green Bay @ Detroit
Miami @ Dallas
San Francisco @ Baltimore

Sunday
Houston @ Jacksonville
Buffalo @ NY Jets
Cleveland @ Cincinnati
Minnesota @ Atlanta
Arizona @ St Louis
Carolina @ Indianapolis
Tampa Bay @ Tennessee
Chicago @ Oakland
Washington @ Seattle
Denver @ San Diego
New England @ Philadelphia
Pittsburgh @ Kansas City

Monday
NY Giants @ New Orleans

Hurricanes25
11-22-2011, 12:19 PM
Last Week: 11-3
Overall: 106-54

Thursday
Green Bay @ Detroit
Miami @ Dallas
San Francisco @ Baltimore

Sunday
Houston @ Jacksonville
Buffalo @ NY Jets
Cleveland @ Cincinnati
Minnesota @ Atlanta
Arizona @ St Louis
Carolina @ Indianapolis
Tampa Bay @ Tennessee
Chicago @ Oakland
Washington @ Seattle
Denver @ San Diego
New England @ Philadelphia
Pittsburgh @ Kansas City

Monday
NY Giants @ New Orleans

Pat Sims 90
11-22-2011, 12:22 PM
Last Week: 8-6
Overall: 101-59

Thursday
Green Bay @ Detroit
Miami @ Dallas
San Francisco @ Baltimore

Sunday
Houston @ Jacksonville
Buffalo @ NY Jets
Cleveland @ Cincinnati
Minnesota @ Atlanta
Arizona @ St Louis
Carolina @ Indianapolis
Tampa Bay @ Tennessee
Chicago @ Oakland
Washington @ Seattle
Denver @ San Diego
New England @ Philadelphia
Pittsburgh @ Kansas City

Monday
NY Giants @ New Orleans

T-RICH49
11-22-2011, 01:08 PM
Last week 10-4
overall: 106-54

Thursday
Green Bay @ Detroit W
Miami @ Dallas W
San Fransisco @ Baltimore L

Sunday
Houston @ Jacksonville W
Buffalo @ NY Jets W
Cleveland @ Cincinatti W
Minnesota @ Atlanta W
Arizona @ St. Louis W
Carolina @ Indianapolis W
Tampa Bay @ Tennessee W
Chicago @ Oakland W
Washington @ Seattle L
Denver @ San Diego W
New England @ Philadelphia W
Pittsburgh @ Kansas City W

Monday
Ny Giants @ New Orleans

nobodyinparticular
11-22-2011, 01:15 PM
Interesting to see 1-4 for the Raiders against a Cutler-less Chicago.

Stash
11-22-2011, 03:16 PM
Last Week: 7-7
Overall: 96-64

Thursday
Green Bay @ Detroit
Miami @ Dallas
San Francisco @ Baltimore

Sunday
Houston @ Jacksonville
Buffalo @ NY Jets
Cleveland @ Cincinnati
Minnesota @ Atlanta
Arizona @ St Louis
Carolina @ Indianapolis
Tampa Bay @ Tennessee
Chicago @ Oakland
Washington @ Seattle
Denver @ San Diego
New England @ Philadelphia
Pittsburgh @ Kansas City

Monday
NY Giants @ New Orleans

Raiderz4Life
11-22-2011, 03:17 PM
Last week: 9-5

Thursday
Green Bay @ Detroit
Miami @ Dallas
San Francisco @ Baltimore

Sunday
Houston @ Jacksonville
Buffalo @ NY Jets
Cleveland @ Cincinnati
Minnesota @ Atlanta
Arizona @ St Louis
Carolina @ Indianapolis
Tampa Bay @ Tennessee
Chicago @ Oakland
Washington @ Seattle
Denver @ San Diego
New England @ Philadelphia
Pittsburgh @ Kansas City

Monday
NY Giants @ New Orleans

fenikz
11-22-2011, 03:21 PM
Overall: 106-54
Last week: 10-4

Thursday
Green Bay @ Detroit
Miami @ Dallas
San Fransisco @ Baltimore

Sunday
Houston @ Jacksonville
Buffalo @ NY Jets
Cleveland @ Cincinatti
Minnesota @ Atlanta
Arizona @ St. Louis
Carolina @ Indianapolis
Tampa Bay @ Tennessee
Chicago @ Oakland
Washington @ Seattle
Denver @ San Diego
New England @ Philadelphia
Pittsburgh @ Kansas City

Monday
NY Giants @ New Orleans

fenikz
11-22-2011, 03:22 PM
Ny Giants @ NY Giants

interesting

49erNation85
11-22-2011, 03:27 PM
Again you'all suck for picking Baltimore,but just kidding. I can't wait for that game. Gonna be a grudge match .

Rosebud
11-22-2011, 03:31 PM
Again you'all suck for picking Baltimore,but just kidding. I can't wait for that game. Gonna be a grudge match .

I feel like the Ravens are the AFC version of the Giants and while you guys played a great game and beat us that game came down to the wire and I suspect if they played 10 games the result would be a lot closer to 5-5 than 10-0 so they've gotta lose one of these toss ups eventually. If it makes you feel better they went 14-2 when I did the playoff machine thing on espn.

SFbear
11-22-2011, 05:15 PM
Week 1 12-4
Week 2 12-4
Week 3 13-3
Week 4 11-5
Week 5 9-4
Week 6 7-6
Week 7 7-6
Week 8 10-3
Week 9 9-5
Week 10 8-8
Week 11 11-3
Overall 109-51

Thursday
Green Bay @ Detroit
Miami @ Dallas
San Francisco @ Baltimore

Sunday
Houston @ Jacksonville
Buffalo @ NY Jets
Cleveland @ Cincinnati
Minnesota @ Atlanta
Arizona @ St Louis
Carolina @ Indianapolis
Tampa Bay @ Tennessee
Chicago @ Oakland
Washington @ Seattle
Denver @ San Diego
New England @ Philadelphia
Pittsburgh @ Kansas City

Monday
NY Giants @ New Orleans

CJSchneider
11-22-2011, 06:05 PM
Last Week: 10 -4
Overall: 108-52

Thursday
Green Bay @ Detroit
Miami @ Dallas
San Francisco @ Baltimore

Sunday
Houston @ Jacksonville
Buffalo @ NY Jets
Cleveland @ Cincinnati
Minnesota @ Atlanta
Arizona @ St Louis
Carolina @ Indianapolis
Tampa Bay @ Tennessee
Chicago @ Oakland
Washington @ Seattle
Denver @ San Diego
New England @ Philadelphia
Pittsburgh @ Kansas City

Monday
NY Giants @ New Orleans

jrdrylie
11-22-2011, 07:50 PM
Last Week: 10-4
Overall: 95-65

Thursday
Green Bay @ Detroit
Miami @ Dallas
San Francisco @ Baltimore

Sunday
Houston @ Jacksonville
Buffalo @ NY Jets
Cleveland @ Cincinnati
Minnesota @ Atlanta
Arizona @ St Louis
Carolina @ Indianapolis
Tampa Bay @ Tennessee
Chicago @ Oakland
Washington @ Seattle
Denver @ San Diego
New England @ Philadelphia
Pittsburgh @ Kansas City

Monday
NY Giants @ New Orleans

diabsoule
11-22-2011, 10:12 PM
Last Week: 10-4
Overall: 105-55

Thursday
Green Bay @ Detroit W
Miami @ Dallas W
San Francisco @ Baltimore W

Sunday
Houston @ Jacksonville W
Buffalo @ NY Jets W
Cleveland @ Cincinnati W
Minnesota @ Atlanta W
Arizona @ St Louis
Carolina @ Indianapolis W
Tampa Bay @ Tennessee L
Chicago @ Oakland W
Washington @ Seattle L
Denver @ San Diego W
New England @ Philadelphia W
Pittsburgh @ Kansas City W

Monday
NY Giants @ New Orleans

keylime_5
11-22-2011, 11:14 PM
Last Week: 10-4
Overall: 106-54

Thursday
Green Bay @ Detroit
Miami @ Dallas
San Francisco @ Baltimore

Sunday
Houston @ Jacksonville
Buffalo @ NY Jets
Cleveland @ Cincinnati
Minnesota @ Atlanta
Arizona @ St Louis
Carolina @ Indianapolis
Tampa Bay @ Tennessee
Chicago @ Oakland
Washington @ Seattle
Denver @ San Diego
New England @ Philadelphia
Pittsburgh @ Kansas City

Monday
NY Giants @ New Orleans


Hardest to pick: HOU@JAC and CHI@OAK. I wish these teams had their QBs so it would be obvious to pick the clearly superior teams.

jrdrylie
11-23-2011, 10:27 AM
Hardest to pick: HOU@JAC and CHI@OAK. I wish these teams had their QBs so it would be obvious to pick the clearly superior teams.

Houston is the obvious winner with Schaub. While they take a step back with Leinart, he is still a better QB than Gabbert right now. Not that difficult of a pick at all.

BloodBrother
11-23-2011, 11:22 AM
Last Week: 9-5
Overall: 98-62

Thursday
Green Bay @ Detroit
Miami @ Dallas
San Francisco @ Baltimore

Sunday
Houston @ Jacksonville
Buffalo @ NY Jets
Cleveland @ Cincinnati
Minnesota @ Atlanta
Arizona @ St Louis
Carolina @ Indianapolis
Tampa Bay @ Tennessee
Chicago @ Oakland
Washington @ Seattle
Denver @ San Diego
New England @ Philadelphia
Pittsburgh @ Kansas City

Monday
NY Giants @ New Orleans

SuperPacker
11-23-2011, 11:26 AM
Last Week: 10-4
Overall: 19-11

Thursday
Green Bay @ Detroit
Miami @ Dallas
San Francisco @ Baltimore

Sunday
Houston @ Jacksonville
Buffalo @ NY Jets
Cleveland @ Cincinnati
Minnesota @ Atlanta
Arizona @ St Louis
Carolina @ Indianapolis
Tampa Bay @ Tennessee
Chicago @ Oakland
Washington @ Seattle
Denver @ San Diego
New England @ Philadelphia
Pittsburgh @ Kansas City

Monday
NY Giants @ New Orleans

keylime_5
11-23-2011, 11:39 AM
Houston is the obvious winner with Schaub. While they take a step back with Leinart, he is still a better QB than Gabbert right now. Not that difficult of a pick at all.

b/c houston is so good at running the ball and playing good defense this season and getting to the QB (and they had a bye week) i pick them.....but jacksonville is at home and they have played all the good teams tough this year thanks to defense and MJD - even beating some.

KCJ58
11-23-2011, 03:57 PM
Thursday
Green Bay @ Detroit
Miami @ Dallas
San Francisco @ Baltimore

Sunday
Houston @ Jacksonville
Buffalo @ NY Jets
Cleveland @ Cincinnati
Minnesota @ Atlanta
Arizona @ St Louis
Carolina @ Indianapolis
Tampa Bay @ Tennessee
Chicago @ Oakland
Washington @ Seattle
Denver @ San Diego
New England @ Philadelphia
Pittsburgh @ Kansas City

Monday
NY Giants @ New Orleans

Sveen
11-23-2011, 04:04 PM
Last Week: 9-5
Overall: 102-58

Thursday
Green Bay @ Detroit
Miami @ Dallas
San Francisco @ Baltimore

Sunday
Houston @ Jacksonville
Buffalo @ NY Jets
Cleveland @ Cincinnati
Minnesota @ Atlanta
Arizona @ St Louis
Carolina @ Indianapolis
Tampa Bay @ Tennessee
Chicago @ Oakland
Washington @ Seattle
Denver @ San Diego
New England @ Philadelphia
Pittsburgh @ Kansas City

Monday
NY Giants @ New Orleans

For those of us posting our picks on BeatTheInsiders.com I have created a group called Draft Countdown. Feel free to join :)

WMD
11-24-2011, 01:24 AM
Week 1: 11-5
Week 2: 14-2
Week 3: 8-8
Week 4: 11-5
Week 5: 8-5
Week 6: 8-5
Week 7: 7-6
Week 8: 11-2
Week 9: 8-6
Week 10: 7-9
Week 11: 7-7
Overall: 100-60

Thursday
Green Bay @ Detroit
Miami @ Dallas
San Francisco @ Baltimore

Sunday
Houston @ Jacksonville
Buffalo @ NY Jets
Cleveland @ Cincinnati
Minnesota @ Atlanta
Arizona @ St Louis
Carolina @ Indianapolis
Tampa Bay @ Tennessee
Chicago @ Oakland
Washington @ Seattle
Denver @ San Diego
New England @ Philadelphia
Pittsburgh @ Kansas City

Monday
NY Giants @ New Orleans

BigBlueNorwegian
11-24-2011, 02:50 AM
Last Week: 11-3
Overall: 107-53

Thursday
Green Bay @ Detroit
Miami @ Dallas
San Francisco @ Baltimore

Sunday
Houston @ Jacksonville
Buffalo @ NY Jets
Cleveland @ Cincinnati
Minnesota @ Atlanta
Arizona @ St Louis
Carolina @ Indianapolis
Tampa Bay @ Tennessee
Chicago @ Oakland
Washington @ Seattle
Denver @ San Diego
New England @ Philadelphia
Pittsburgh @ Kansas City

Monday
NY Giants @ New Orleans

scottyboy
11-24-2011, 08:48 AM
104-56
Last week: 9-5


Thursday
Green Bay @ Detroit
Miami @ Dallas
San Francisco @ Baltimore

Sunday
Houston @ Jacksonville
Buffalo @ NY Jets
Cleveland @ Cincinnati
Minnesota @ Atlanta
Arizona @ St Louis
Carolina @ Indianapolis
Tampa Bay @ Tennessee
Chicago @ Oakland
Washington @ Seattle
Denver @ San Diego
New England @ Philadelphia
Pittsburgh @ Kansas City

Monday
NY Giants @ New Orleans

igglefanz
11-24-2011, 08:49 AM
Last Week: 9-5
Overall: 91-69

Thursday
Green Bay @ Detroit
Miami @ Dallas
San Francisco @ Baltimore

Sunday
Houston @ Jacksonville
Buffalo @ NY Jets
Cleveland @ Cincinnati
Minnesota @ Atlanta
Arizona @ St Louis
Carolina @ Indianapolis
Tampa Bay @ Tennessee
Chicago @ Oakland
Washington @ Seattle
Denver @ San Diego
New England @ Philadelphia
Pittsburgh @ Kansas City

Monday
NY Giants @ New Orleans

Matthew Jones
11-24-2011, 10:34 AM
Last Week: 10-4
Overall: 100-60

Thursday
Green Bay @ Detroit
Miami @ Dallas
San Francisco @ Baltimore

Auron
11-24-2011, 10:44 AM
Last Week: 9-5
Overall: 96-65

Thursday
Green Bay @ Detroit
Miami @ Dallas
San Francisco @ Baltimore

Sunday
Houston @ Jacksonville
Buffalo @ NY Jets
Cleveland @ Cincinnati
Minnesota @ Atlanta
Arizona @ St Louis
Carolina @ Indianapolis
Tampa Bay @ Tennessee
Chicago @ Oakland
Washington @ Seattle
Denver @ San Diego
New England @ Philadelphia
Pittsburgh @ Kansas City

Monday
NY Giants @ New Orleans

Complex
11-24-2011, 11:41 AM
9-4
97-63

Green Bay @ Detroit
Miami @ Dallas
San Francisco @ Baltimore

Sunday
Houston @ Jacksonville
Buffalo @ NY Jets
Cleveland @ Cincinnati
Minnesota @ Atlanta
Arizona @ St Louis
Carolina @ Indianapolis
Tampa Bay @ Tennessee
Chicago @ Oakland
Washington @ Seattle
Denver @ San Diego
New England @ Philadelphia
Pittsburgh @ Kansas City

Monday
NY Giants @ New Orleans
__________________

KCJ58
11-24-2011, 06:52 PM
Thursday

49ers @ Ravens


Changing my pick to the 49ers

Matthew Jones
11-24-2011, 10:00 PM
Last Week: 10-4
Overall: 100-60

Thursday
Green Bay @ Detroit
Miami @ Dallas
San Francisco @ Baltimore

Sunday
Houston @ Jacksonville
Buffalo @ NY Jets
Cleveland @ Cincinnati
Minnesota @ Atlanta
Arizona @ St Louis
Carolina @ Indianapolis
Tampa Bay @ Tennessee
Chicago @ Oakland
Washington @ Seattle
Denver @ San Diego
New England @ Philadelphia
Pittsburgh @ Kansas City

Monday
NY Giants @ New Orleans

Brent
11-25-2011, 02:55 PM
Chicago @ Oakland
changing my pick to Oakland.

nobodyinparticular
11-25-2011, 08:12 PM
I don't know if that's a good idea Brent. Take a look at the injury report.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v229/nobodyinparticular/Raidersinjuries.jpg

yo123
11-26-2011, 02:06 AM
I don't know if that's a good idea Brent. Take a look at the injury report.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v229/nobodyinparticular/Raidersinjuries.jpg


I read the first name, and it looks like a good idea to me.

Brent
11-26-2011, 09:45 AM
I don't know if that's a good idea Brent. Take a look at the injury report.
no Jay Cutler = me not picking the Bears.

T-RICH49
11-27-2011, 10:50 PM
Last week 10-4
overall: 106-54

Thursday
Green Bay @ Detroit W 1-0
Miami @ Dallas W 2-0
San Fransisco @ Baltimore L 2-1

Sunday
Houston @ Jacksonville W 3-1
Buffalo @ NY Jets W 4-1
Cleveland @ Cincinatti W 5-1
Minnesota @ Atlanta W 6-1
Arizona @ St. Louis W 7-1
Carolina @ Indianapolis W 8-1
Tampa Bay @ Tennessee W 9-1
Chicago @ Oakland W 10-1
Washington @ Seattle L 10-2
Denver @ San Diego W 11-2
New England @ Philadelphia W 12-2
Pittsburgh @ Kansas City W 13-2

Monday
Ny Giants @ New Orleans

14-2 this week
120-56 overall

fenikz
11-28-2011, 12:03 AM
12-3 changed AZ to STL last night how dare I

diabsoule
11-28-2011, 12:09 AM
13-2 heading into MNF. Stupid Tampa Bay and Seattle

Vegas15
11-28-2011, 12:42 AM
Before I do my entry for next week, is it mathematically possible that if I go undefeated for the rest of the year that I can win this?

Raiderz4Life
11-28-2011, 12:55 AM
I don't know if that's a good idea Brent. Take a look at the injury report.



Ye of little faith

WMD
11-28-2011, 01:24 AM
Week 1: 11-5
Week 2: 14-2
Week 3: 8-8
Week 4: 11-5
Week 5: 8-5
Week 6: 8-5
Week 7: 7-6
Week 8: 11-2
Week 9: 8-6
Week 10: 7-9
Week 11: 7-7
Overall: 100-60

Thursday
Green Bay @ Detroit
Miami @ Dallas
San Francisco @ Baltimore

Sunday
Houston @ Jacksonville
Buffalo @ NY Jets
Cleveland @ Cincinnati
Minnesota @ Atlanta
Arizona @ St Louis
Carolina @ Indianapolis
Tampa Bay @ Tennessee
Chicago @ Oakland
Washington @ Seattle
Denver @ San Diego
New England @ Philadelphia
Pittsburgh @ Kansas City

Monday
NY Giants @ New Orleans
So of course the only game I have wrong is the Detroit/Green Bay game.. and it's all Suh's fault. Damn him and his balance problems.

Brent
11-28-2011, 06:48 AM
Last Week: 9-5
Overall: 109-51

Thursday
Green Bay @ Detroit W1
Miami @ Dallas W2
San Francisco @ Baltimore L1

Sunday
Houston @ Jacksonville W3
Buffalo @ NY Jets W4
Cleveland @ Cincinnati W5
Minnesota @ Atlanta W6
Arizona @ St Louis L2
Carolina @ Indianapolis W7
Tampa Bay @ Tennessee L3
Chicago @ Oakland W8
Washington @ Seattle L4
Denver @ San Diego L5
New England @ Philadelphia W9
Pittsburgh @ Kansas City W10

Monday
NY Giants @ New Orleans
10-5 heading in to MNF

keylime_5
11-28-2011, 10:47 AM
12-3 going into monday night, chyeah! I'm surprised that Seattle lost at home to another bad team.

Hurricanes25
11-28-2011, 10:56 PM
Last Week: 11-3
Overall: 106-54

Thursday
Green Bay @ Detroit
Miami @ Dallas
San Francisco @ Baltimore

Sunday
Houston @ Jacksonville
Buffalo @ NY Jets
Cleveland @ Cincinnati
Minnesota @ Atlanta
Arizona @ St Louis
Carolina @ Indianapolis
Tampa Bay @ Tennessee
Chicago @ Oakland
Washington @ Seattle
Denver @ San Diego
New England @ Philadelphia
Pittsburgh @ Kansas City

Monday
NY Giants @ New Orleans

14-2.
120-56 on the season.

Complex
11-28-2011, 11:00 PM
9-4
97-63

Green Bay @ Detroit
Miami @ Dallas 1
San Francisco @ Baltimore 2

Sunday
Houston @ Jacksonville 3
Buffalo @ NY Jets 4
Cleveland @ Cincinnati 5
Minnesota @ Atlanta 6
Arizona @ St Louis
Carolina @ Indianapolis 7
Tampa Bay @ Tennessee 8
Chicago @ Oakland 9
Washington @ Seattle
Denver @ San Diego 10
New England @ Philadelphia 11
Pittsburgh @ Kansas City 12

Monday
NY Giants @ New Orleans 13
__________________


13-3 this week
110-66

fenikz
11-29-2011, 03:45 AM
Overall: 106-54
Last week: 10-4

Thursday
Green Bay @ Detroit
Miami @ Dallas
San Fransisco @ Baltimore

Sunday
Houston @ Jacksonville
Buffalo @ NY Jets
Cleveland @ Cincinatti
Minnesota @ Atlanta
Arizona @ St. Louis
Carolina @ Indianapolis
Tampa Bay @ Tennessee
Chicago @ Oakland
Washington @ Seattle
Denver @ San Diego
New England @ Philadelphia
Pittsburgh @ Kansas City

Monday
NY Giants @ New Orleans

10-4
Overall: 116-58

jrdrylie
11-30-2011, 02:06 PM
10-4
Overall: 116-58

By the looks of it, you went 12-4, not 10-4.

Raiderz4Life
11-30-2011, 02:15 PM
Last week: 9-5

Thursday
Green Bay @ Detroit 1-0
Miami @ Dallas 2-0
San Francisco @ Baltimore 3-0

Sunday
Houston @ Jacksonville 4-0
Buffalo @ NY Jets 5-0
Cleveland @ Cincinnati 6-0
Minnesota @ Atlanta 7-0
Arizona @ St Louis 7-1
Carolina @ Indianapolis 8-1
Tampa Bay @ Tennessee 8-2
Chicago @ Oakland 9-2
Washington @ Seattle 9-3
Denver @ San Diego 9-4
New England @ Philadelphia 10-4
Pittsburgh @ Kansas City 11-4

Monday
NY Giants @ New Orleans12-4

12-4 for the week...Seattle and San Diego y'all suck

KCJ58
11-30-2011, 03:36 PM
Thursday
Green Bay @ Detroit
1-0
Miami @ Dallas
2-0
San Francisco @ Baltimore
2-1
Sunday
Houston @ Jacksonville
3-1
Buffalo @ NY Jets
4-1
Cleveland @ Cincinnati
5-1
Minnesota @ Atlanta
6-1
Arizona @ St Louis
6-2
Carolina @ Indianapolis
7-2
Tampa Bay @ Tennessee
8-2
Chicago @ Oakland
9-2
Washington @ Seattle
10-2
Denver @ San Diego
10-3
New England @ Philadelphia
11-3
Pittsburgh @ Kansas City
12-3
Monday
NY Giants @ New Orleans
13-3


Changing my pick to the 49ers

Week 13: 13-3