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Jimmy
11-22-2011, 06:01 PM
The Pro Football Hall of Fame announced on Tuesday its semifinalists for induction into the 2012 class. Two former Denver Broncos reached the semifinal round for the first time in their eligibility periods: safety Steve Atwater and linebacker Karl Mecklenburg.


Good class overall. All the names we expect to see, for the most part, are there.

Had to throw the Broncos thing in there and show support for my Dad's favorite player, Karl Mecklenburg. How is a linebacker with 1104 career tackles (200 more than Ray Lewis has currently) not in the HOF? How? Even Ray, the GOAT, hasn't come close to matching Karl's 8 straight 97+ tackle seasons. /homer

The complete list of 26 modern-era semifinalists is as follows:

Steve Atwater, S – 1989-1998 Denver Broncos, 1999 New York Jets

Jerome Bettis, RB – 1993-95 Los Angeles/St. Louis Rams, 1996-2005 Pittsburgh Steelers

Tim Brown, WR/KR – 1988-2003 Los Angeles/Oakland Raiders, 2004 Tampa Bay Buccaneers

Cris Carter, WR – 1987-89 Philadelphia Eagles, 1990-2001 Minnesota Vikings, 2002 Miami Dolphins

Don Coryell, Coach – 1973-77 St. Louis Cardinals, 1978-1986 San Diego Chargers

Roger Craig, RB – 1983-1990 San Francisco 49ers, 1991 Los Angeles Raiders, 1992-93 Minnesota Vikings

Terrell Davis, RB – 1995-2001 Denver Broncos

Dermontti Dawson, C – 1988-2000 Pittsburgh Steelers

Edward DeBartolo, Jr., Owner – 1979-2000 San Francisco 49ers

Chris Doleman, DE/LB – 1985-1993, 1999 Minnesota Vikings, 1994-95 Atlanta Falcons, 1996-98 San Francisco 49ers

Kevin Greene, LB/DE – 1985-1992 Los Angeles Rams, 1993-95 Pittsburgh Steelers, 1996, 1998-99 Carolina Panthers, 1997 San Francisco 49ers

Charles Haley, DE/LB – 1986-1991, 1999 San Francisco 49ers, 1992-96 Dallas Cowboys

Cortez Kennedy, DT – 1990-2000 Seattle Seahawks

Curtis Martin, RB – 1995-97 New England Patriots, 1998-2005 New York Jets

Clay Matthews, LB – 1978-1993 Cleveland Browns, 1994-96 Atlanta Falcons

Karl Mecklenburg, LB – 1983-1994 Denver Broncos

Bill Parcells, Coach – 1983-1990 New York Giants, 1993-96 New England Patriots, 1997-99 New York Jets, 2003-06 Dallas Cowboys

Andre Reed, WR – 1985-1999 Buffalo Bills, 2000 Washington Redskins

Willie Roaf, T – 1993-2001 New Orleans Saints, 2002-05 Kansas City Chiefs

Donnie Shell, S – 1974-1987 Pittsburgh Steelers

Will Shields, G – 1993-2006 Kansas City Chiefs

Paul Tagliabue, Commissioner – 1989-2006 National Football League

Steve Tasker, ST/WR – 1985-86 Houston Oilers, 1986-1997 Buffalo Bills

Aeneas Williams, CB/S – 1991-2000 Phoenix/Arizona Cardinals, 2001-04 St. Louis Rams

Ron Wolf, Contributor – 1963-1974, 1978-1990 Oakland/Los Angeles Raiders, 1975-77 Tampa Bay Buccaneers, 1990 New York Jets, 1991-2001 Green Bay Packers

George Young, Contributor – 1968-1974 Baltimore Colts, 1975-78 Miami Dolphins, 1979-1997 New York Giants, 1998-2001 National Football League

Block Captain-DirtyDot
11-22-2011, 06:05 PM
Terrell Davis? How's he gonna be on that list?

bearsfan_51
11-22-2011, 06:09 PM
My predictions from a few months ago.

Nonetheless, here's my shot at predicting the top 5 players to get in next year (the last two spots are almost always the senior voters' representatives, which has basically become a lock for enshrinement).

This should be an interesting class because there don't look to be any first ballot guys (Will Shields and Bill Parcells having the only real chance), freeing up room to clear up the current logjam.

1) Willie Roaf- Tackle- 1993-2001 New Orleans Saints, 2002-2005 Kansas City Chiefs

Roaf didn't make it in his first year of eligibility, but it's only a matter of time. He was on the all 90's and 00's team (an almost lock for selection), and was arguably the best tackle of his era.

2) Dermontti Dawson- Center- 1988-2000 Pittsburgh Steelers

The HOF hasn't selected a center since 1998, and only two centers in the modern era have been selected (Mike Webster, Dwight Stevenson), but if I were to make a list of all-time great centers, Dawson would be 2nd or 3rd of all-time. He was a semi-finalist the last two years, he'll make it soon.

3) Chris Doleman- Defensive End/Linebacker- 1985-1993, 1999 Minnesota Vikings, 1994-95 Atlanta Falcons, 1996-1998 San Francisco 49'ers

Am I just trolling the Cris Carter supporters? I'm really not. The more people you listen to, the less surprised they are that Carter hasn't been inducted yet, and the less confident they are he will be next year either. Taking his spot as a token Viking, Chris Doleman is a really underrated player with 8 Pro Bowls, and more importantly 5 times All-Pro selection and induction on the all 90's team. Doleman is fourth all-time in sacks, ahead of Richard Dent. Cris Carter will get in eventually, but it looks like there is a wait on receivers.

4) Curtis Martin- Runningback- 1995-97 New England Patriots, 1998-2005 New York Jets

It's either him or Bettis, but I don't think both, not yet anyway. Martin is 4th overall, while Bettis is 5th. And although Bettis won the Superbowl, it's uncommon they vote in two players from the same team in one class. Dawson deserves to go first, and has been waiting longer.

5) Cortez Kennedy- Defensive Tackle- 1990-2000 Seattle Seahawks

Kennedy was always unnoticed being on some bad Seahawks team in a corner of the country most people are unaware exists. But he was a dominant presence on the d-line, compiled great numbers, and won a defensive MVP (and was another all 90's player).

Still have to wait another year: Cris Carter, Will Shields, Jerome Bettis, Andre Reed, Tim Brown, Charles Haley, Bill Parcells, Bill Cowher


The best case I can make for Carter or Bettis this year is that the HOF would be concerned that my class above would be too "boring."

niel89
11-22-2011, 06:12 PM
Terrell Davis? How's he gonna be on that list?

Sheer dominance during his albeit short career. The man was unreal during his time.

Block Captain-DirtyDot
11-22-2011, 06:14 PM
Sheer dominance during his albeit short career. The man was unreal during his time.

4 seasons over 1000 yards = HOF? I just don't see it.

bearsfan_51
11-22-2011, 06:16 PM
Lots of players make the top 25 and never make the HOF.

Jimmy
11-22-2011, 06:17 PM
4 seasons over 1000 yards = HOF? I just don't see it.

no, but that's why he's only made the semi-finalists list and likely won't make the finals. he's in that awkward purgatory between "one of the greatest ever" and "undoubtedly the best player at his position for nearly half a decade"

J-Mike88
11-22-2011, 06:55 PM
Sheer dominance during his albeit short career. The man was unreal during his time.
I agree with you!

I believe Hall of Fame should be the greatest players!

In my opinion, even for just a 4 or 5 year stretch, Terrell Davis was THE BEST runningback during his time, and he was the most dominant player in all of football for a period of time, leading to 2 touchdowns.

To me, I think that's more Hall-worthy than a guy who just lasted a long time, racked up a large, long body of work with big cumulative stats, but who was NEVER considered the best at even his own position at all during his career.

IMO, Gale Sayers, Terrell Davis > Curtis Martin, Jerome Bettis, and Kurt Warner > Donovan McNabb for sure.

boknows34
11-22-2011, 10:40 PM
"undoubtedly the best player at his position for nearly half a decade"


In my opinion, even for just a 4 or 5 year stretch, Terrell Davis was THE BEST runningback during his time, and he was the most dominant player in all of football for a period of time

Davis had a nice rookie season in 1995 (1,117 yds, 7 TDs, 4.7ypc) and was dominant for 3 seasons in total, 1996, 1997, 1998. He was certainly the best RB and maybe even player in football during his 2,000yd season in 1998 but lets not go too overboard with the ''undoubtedly best RB for nearly half a decade''.

Between 1995-97 Barry Sanders had led the NFL in rushing twice ('96 and '97) despite losing his best offensive lineman to free agency in Lomas Brown, and was 2nd in 1995 with 1,500 yds when Davis had 1,117 yds that year. Barry was also coming off a 1,883 yd season in 1994, at the time the 4th highest single-season total in NFL history.

1995-97

http://pfref.com/tiny/3cdFq

Sanders
5,106 yds
5.36 ypc
33 rushing TDs
2 rushing titles
3 1,500 yd seasons (incl a 2k season)
3 All-Pros
1 NFL MVP 1997
1 NFL OPOTY (also did it in 1994)

Davis
4,405 yds
4.63 ypc
35 rushing TDs
0 rushing titles
2 1,500 yd seasons
2 All Pros
Super Bowl MVP 1997
1 NFL OPOTY 1996

Emmitt
4,051 yds
4.20 ypc
41 rushing TDs
1 rushing titles
1 1,500 yd seasons
1 All Pro
Super Bowl ring 1995

Terrell Davis had a nice rookie season in 1995. He was the 2nd best RB in the NFL in 1996 and 1997 behind Sanders, the best player in football in 1998, then blew his knee out in Week 4 of 1999. That's 3 dominant seasons. Still, with 2 Super Bowl rings, a Super Bowl MVP, 3 All-Pros, NFL MVP, 2 OPOTY and a 2k season it was a hell of a ride while it lasted.

Between 1995-98 Sanders and Davis were head and shoulders above all other RBs, with over 1,000 yds more rushing during that 4-yr span than the next best RB. Sanders led All-Pros 4-3. Both were OPOTY (Davis twice while Barry also did it in 1994), both were NFL MVP and both had a 2k season. Davis of course had the team success that Barry never achieved in Detroit.

1. B.Sanders
6,597 yds
5.08 ypc

2. T.Davis
6,413 yds
4.78 ypc

3. E.Smith
5,383 yds
4.19 ypc

4. C.Martin
5,086 yds
3.83 ypc

5. R.Watters
5,033 yds
3.89 ypc

Breed
11-22-2011, 10:50 PM
I never knew Clay Matthews pops played football...

keylime_5
11-22-2011, 11:11 PM
Clay Matthews Jr. Get him in.

Ness
11-22-2011, 11:33 PM
I never knew Clay Matthews pops played football...

He was a hell of a player. Same with his brother.

diabsoule
11-22-2011, 11:40 PM
Here's the 6 players and one coach that would receive my vote:

The complete list of 26 modern-era semifinalists is as follows:

Dermontti Dawson, C – 1988-2000 Pittsburgh Steelers

Chris Doleman, DE/LB – 1985-1993, 1999 Minnesota Vikings, 1994-95 Atlanta Falcons, 1996-98 San Francisco 49ers

Cortez Kennedy, DT – 1990-2000 Seattle Seahawks

Bill Parcells, Coach – 1983-1990 New York Giants, 1993-96 New England Patriots, 1997-99 New York Jets, 2003-06 Dallas Cowboys

Willie Roaf, T – 1993-2001 New Orleans Saints, 2002-05 Kansas City Chiefs

Will Shields, G – 1993-2006 Kansas City Chiefs

Steve Tasker, ST/WR – 1985-86 Houston Oilers, 1986-1997 Buffalo Bills

bearsfan_51
11-22-2011, 11:50 PM
The senior committee guys will get two spots. It's because almost a shoe-in.

BigBanger
11-23-2011, 12:10 AM
I voted no. Tony Boselli, Sterling Sharpe, Kenny Easley, Lester Hayes.

Most deserving from this list:


Edward DeBartolo, Jr., Owner 1979-2000 San Francisco 49ers
Willie Roaf, T 1993-2001 New Orleans Saints, 2002-05 Kansas City Chiefs
Terrell Davis, RB 1995-2001 Denver Broncos
Dermontti Dawson, C 1988-2000 Pittsburgh Steelers
Bill Parcells, Coach 1983-1990 New York Giants, 1993-96 New England Patriots, 1997-99 New York Jets
Steve Atwater, S 1989-1998 Denver Broncos, 1999 New York Jets
Will Shields, G 1993-2006 Kansas City Chiefs
Don Coryell, Coach 1973-77 St. Louis Cardinals, 1978-1986 San Diego Chargers



Least deserving from this list:



Steve Tasker, ST/WR 1985-86 Houston Oilers, 1986-1997 Buffalo Bills
Andre Reed, WR 1985-1999 Buffalo Bills, 2000 Washington Redskins
Curtis Martin, RB 1995-97 New England Patriots, 1998-2005 New York Jets
Jerome Bettis, RB 1993-95 Los Angeles/St. Louis Rams, 1996-2005 Pittsburgh Steelers
Tim Brown, WR/KR 1988-2003 Los Angeles/Oakland Raiders, 2004 Tampa Bay Buccaneers
Roger Craig, RB 1983-1990 San Francisco 49ers, 1991 Los Angeles Raiders, 1992-93 Minnesota Vikings

CT Bronco Fan
11-23-2011, 12:22 AM
It's a travesty and a sham that Meck is not in the Hall of Fame.

If he was a linebacker for the Giants people would of considered him the greatest LB of all time, ridiculous.

boknows34
11-23-2011, 12:32 AM
Here's the 6 players and one coach that would receive my vote:

You can only pick 5 modern era candidates.

boknows34
11-23-2011, 12:35 AM
I voted no. Tony Boselli, Sterling Sharpe, Kenny Easley, Lester Hayes.

Hayes is no longer eligible as a modern era candidate. Boselli, Sharpe and Easley were all HOF talents who had their careers cut short with injury or illness. They definitely have parallels with Terrell Davis in HOF discussions.

jth1331
11-23-2011, 10:02 AM
It's a travesty and a sham that Meck is not in the Hall of Fame.

If he was a linebacker for the Giants people would of considered him the greatest LB of all time, ridiculous.

Shoot, its a travesty Randy Gradishar isn't in.
Him, Meck, Atwater all should be in.
Davis I see both sides, for and against.

And I'll be livid if Steve freakin Tasker makes it in ahead of some of these other guys. Livid.

NY+Giants=NYG
11-23-2011, 10:14 AM
Parcells and Young please! Air C system! Don C has to get in. I always liked Steve Tasker, but not sure if he will.

killxswitch
11-23-2011, 10:17 AM
The problem for Roaf is all the other great OTs that played at the same time as him. I still think he will get in and deserves to. But it might take a few tries.

diabsoule
11-23-2011, 10:23 AM
You can only pick 5 modern era candidates.

You can pick up to 7, from what I read on the Hall of Fame website

BigBanger
11-23-2011, 10:40 AM
And I'll be livid if Steve freakin Tasker makes it in ahead of some of these other guys. Livid.

If I'm in the Hall of Fame and I'm looking at the busts of the greatest players of all-time, and I go from Rod Woodson to Deion Sanders to Dick Butkus to Barry Sanders to Jerry Rice to Lawrence Taylor to Joe Montana to Reggie White to Bruce Smith to Mike Webster to Anthony Munoz to Steve Young to Lee Roy Selmon to Mel Blount to "Mean" Joe Greene to Earl Campbell to John Hannah to Deacon Jones to Randy White to Jack Lambert to Steve Tasker ... then I'm gonna have a problem with that.

The Hall of Fame should be a very exclusive club, and only the greatest players should be in there. Steve Tasker does not belong to that group. Its bad enough to see bums like Art Monk get in there that consistently get in because of politics and begging, but now they're really going to entertain a special teams player? Granted Tasker was probably a better player then Monk (just using him as an example), but he still does not belong.

I like guys like Bill Bates and Steve Tasker, but if we start putting them in the Hall of Fame (or even acting like they have a chance), then we're going to be talking about guys like Larry Izzo and Kassim Osgood as well. That's kinda scary.

boknows34
11-23-2011, 12:36 PM
You can pick up to 7, from what I read on the Hall of Fame website

Two spots are reserved for the Seniors nominees. 2 Seniors plus 5 Modern Era is your maximum class of 7.

http://www.profootballhof.com/hof/SelectionProcessFAQ.aspx

The Final Preliminary List of 25 modern-era candidates will be distributed to the Selection Committee during the month of November for the purpose of the selection of 15 Modern Era Nominees. The 16th and 17th finalists are the recommended candidates of the Seniors Committee.

In advance of the Hall of Fame Selection Meeting in February, the selectors are provided detailed biographies on each of the 17 finalist candidates. At the annual meeting, each of the nominees is thoroughly discussed by the committee before a series of reduction votes are taken. First, the two senior candidates are discussed and voted on for election. They must receive the same 80 percent affirmative vote as the modern-era candidates. Next, there is a vote that reduces the modern-era finalists list from 15 to 10. Following that, a vote is taken to reduce the list from 10 to 5 names. The five remaining candidates for Hall of Fame election are then voted on individually (yes or no) for membership.

Crazy_Chris
11-23-2011, 12:44 PM
You can pick up to 7, from what I read on the Hall of Fame website

It's 7 total, 5 of which are Modern era candidates & the last 2 spots reserved for Senior committee candidates.

edit: what bo said... My prediction from last week for the modern era candidates.

Andre Reed - Reed made it further than Carter/Brown two years in a row so he seems to be the next WR in line for enshrinement.

Willie Roaf- I personally don't see how he doesn't make it in this year. Probably the biggest lock for me

Cortez Kennedy- He's been gaining momentum the past few years, and this is the perfect oppurtunity to push him through.

Dermontti Dawson- He's been waiting a little while, this is the year to push him through. Especially considering all the worthy O-linemen that are becoming eligible over these next few years.

Those 4 I am very confident will make it, but the last spot is kind of interesting. I am pretty sure for the sake of balance it will be a definsive player, either Charles Haley or Chris Doleman(He is my choice).

nepg
11-23-2011, 01:08 PM
The problem for Roaf is all the other great OTs that played at the same time as him. I still think he will get in and deserves to. But it might take a few tries.
That's more of a case FOR Roaf because he was the best of them. It's a tough group, but here's my 5...
Dermonti Dawson
Willie Roaf
Chris Doleman
Kevin Greene
Will Shields

Yeah, offensive linemen (Top 5 All-Time at their respective positions - easily) and two of the best, most underrated pass rushers ever.

Ness
11-23-2011, 01:35 PM
I like guys like Bill Bates and Steve Tasker, but if we start putting them in the Hall of Fame (or even acting like they have a chance), then we're going to be talking about guys like Larry Izzo and Kassim Osgood as well. That's kinda scary.

Tasker was a 7x All-Pro and had a Hall of Fame type of career on special teams. Even though special teams aren't looked as highly as offense and defense, it's still a very important part of the game and changes so many things. I wouldn't have a problem with him in Canton. I don't see why he doesn't deserve it.

jth1331
11-23-2011, 01:43 PM
Tasker was a 7x All-Pro and had a Hall of Fame type of career on special teams. Even though special teams aren't looked as highly as offense and defense, it's still a very important part of the game and changes so many things. I wouldn't have a problem with him in Canton. I don't see why he doesn't deserve it.

Tell me, would you rather have Steve Tasker in the HOF or Cris Carter? Tim Brown? Andre Reed?
You are basically saying Tasker is a BETTER player than those guys. He was hardly as big of an impact as those other guys.

Raiderz4Life
11-23-2011, 01:48 PM
I would like Tasker in....he deserves it and it would open the door for Devin Hester...who I absolutely think will deserve it when its all said and done

Ness
11-23-2011, 01:51 PM
Tell me, would you rather have Steve Tasker in the HOF or Cris Carter? Tim Brown? Andre Reed?
You are basically saying Tasker is a BETTER player than those guys. He was hardly as big of an impact as those other guys.

Well offense and defense are going to have bigger impacts on the game period. However, that doesn't mean Tasker doesn't deserve to be enshrined at some point in time. We as fans and the HOF voters shouldn't downplay the importance special teams can bring to the game.

FUNBUNCHER
11-23-2011, 02:02 PM
Art Monk is NOT a bum player.
Ask Jerry Rice if he thinks Monk should be in the HOF.

The Redskins passing game during Gibbs' first three SBs( including loss to Raiders) was predicated on Art Monk being unstoppable on 3rd down. For the era, Monk was one of the most clutch and reliable WRs in the game.

Clay Matthews Jr. played forever but IMO he's not a HOFer. If he's a HOF LB, then Jack Del Rio is a HOFer.

I think Terrell Davis eventually gets into Canton because of the precedent of Gale Sayers and Lynn Swann; players whose careers were either prematurely shortened by injuries or were brilliant performers who didn't put up impressive stats.
Again, in the minds of most voters, winning SBs is weighted heavily in a candidate's favor. Shanny says the two greatest RBs he's ever coached were Marcus Allen and Terrell Davis.

Sometimes it's enough for a player when he retires to be almost universally described as 'great', regardless of his statistics.

Cris Carter is getting in I think this time over Tim Brown.

Chris Doleman/Kevin Greene/Charles Haley all should have been in Canton by now.
For all the guys people consider the most dominant pass rushers playing today, not ONE of them IMO will have 150+ sacks for their career(Doleman/Kevin Greene). Except maybe Demarcus Ware.;)

And every safety better cross their fingers and hope Steve Atwater gets voted in.

jth1331
11-23-2011, 02:29 PM
Well offense and defense are going to have bigger impacts on the game period. However, that doesn't mean Tasker doesn't deserve to be enshrined at some point in time. We as fans and the HOF voters shouldn't downplay the importance special teams can bring to the game.

Then a butt load of kickers and punters deserve to get in.
Its hard to vote someone in who plays on the field so rarely.

nepg
11-23-2011, 03:03 PM
I want Tasker in over Cris Carter. **** Cris Carter.

bearsfan_51
11-23-2011, 06:44 PM
Well offense and defense are going to have bigger impacts on the game period. However, that doesn't mean Tasker doesn't deserve to be enshrined at some point in time.
Yes it does. That's exactly what it means.

crossroads
11-23-2011, 06:57 PM
Well offense and defense are going to have bigger impacts on the game period. However, that doesn't mean Tasker doesn't deserve to be enshrined at some point in time. We as fans and the HOF voters shouldn't downplay the importance special teams can bring to the game.

The problem is even if Tasker is deserving of the hall of fame, when is there ever going to be a year that there aren't at least 5 modern era candidates more deserving than him?

boknows34
11-23-2011, 07:49 PM
The problem is even if Tasker is deserving of the hall of fame, when is there ever going to be a year that there aren't at least 5 modern era candidates more deserving than him?

Exactly and this was Ray Guy's problem too. Their best bet is via the Seniors route as they are then fast-tracked through to a Yes/No vote.

Ravens1991
11-23-2011, 08:58 PM
Art Monk is NOT a bum player.
Ask Jerry Rice if he thinks Monk should be in the HOF.

The Redskins passing game during Gibbs' first three SBs( including loss to Raiders) was predicated on Art Monk being unstoppable on 3rd down. For the era, Monk was one of the most clutch and reliable WRs in the game.

Clay Matthews Jr. played forever but IMO he's not a HOFer. If he's a HOF LB, then Jack Del Rio is a HOFer.

I think Terrell Davis eventually gets into Canton because of the precedent of Gale Sayers and Lynn Swann; players whose careers were either prematurely shortened by injuries or were brilliant performers who didn't put up impressive stats.
Again, in the minds of most voters, winning SBs is weighted heavily in a candidate's favor. Shanny says the two greatest RBs he's ever coached were Marcus Allen and Terrell Davis.

Sometimes it's enough for a player when he retires to be almost universally described as 'great', regardless of his statistics.

Cris Carter is getting in I think this time over Tim Brown.

Chris Doleman/Kevin Greene/Charles Haley all should have been in Canton by now.
For all the guys people consider the most dominant pass rushers playing today, not ONE of them IMO will have 150+ sacks for their career(Doleman/Kevin Greene). Except maybe Demarcus Ware.;)

And every safety better cross their fingers and hope Steve Atwater gets voted in.


I did some research on Monk and there were only 3 seasons when he was top 3 for receptions, one season when he was top 3 for recieving yards, and 1 season when he was top 10 in TDs.

That is not HOF material IMO

FUNBUNCHER
11-23-2011, 10:52 PM
I did some research on Monk and there were only 3 seasons when he was top 3 for receptions, one season when he was top 3 for receiving yards, and 1 season when he was top 10 in TD.

That is not HOF material IMO


And three seasons where he won a SB.

No Redskins during the Gibbs era were statistical leaders for their respective offensive positions, except for the year Riggins ran for 24 TDs.
The Redskins had a friggin' KICKER win NFL MVP during this same period.
Art Monk was the Redskins go to #1 WR for half a decade and a part of arguably the most dynamic WR corps before the Skins won their last SB in '91.


Monk was the NFL's alltime receptions leader when he retired and the only player at the time who recorded at least one TD reception in 15 consecutive seasons. He was on the 1980s All Decade Team and IMO earned his spot in Canton.

Rice/Monk/Largent/Lofton/Stallworth were the best WRs of that decade, and if Monk doesn't belong there's a list of guys behind him who shouldn't be there either.

Ravens1991
11-23-2011, 11:00 PM
A good player yes, but IMO above average players who were on superbowl teams should not make the HOF.

FUNBUNCHER
11-23-2011, 11:19 PM
A good player yes, but IMO above average players who were on superbowl teams should not make the HOF.


The Redskins got to those SBs because of Monk. He wasn't some special teamer or assistant ball boy who won a ring.

Winning still counts in the NFL. If you're one of the main reasons your team is competing for a SB four times in a decade, you at least deserve HOF consideration.

I just get sick of hearing, 'but look at Monk's stats. Those aren't HOF numbers.'
Except they were in 1995 when he retired.

If Andre Reed had won three SBs he'd have been in the HOF five years ago.

Basically you're arguing the ONLY WR who played in the 1980s who deserves to be in the HOF is Rice, and maybe Largent.

BigBanger
11-25-2011, 06:13 AM
Tasker was a 7x All-Pro and had a Hall of Fame type of career on special teams. Even though special teams aren't looked as highly as offense and defense, it's still a very important part of the game and changes so many things. I wouldn't have a problem with him in Canton. I don't see why he doesn't deserve it.
Like I said before -- see my previous post -- his name does not belong with the list of names I mentioned.


And three seasons where he won a SB.

No Redskins during the Gibbs era were statistical leaders for their respective offensive positions, except for the year Riggins ran for 24 TDs.
The Redskins had a friggin' KICKER win NFL MVP during this same period.
Art Monk was the Redskins go to #1 WR for half a decade and a part of arguably the most dynamic WR corps before the Skins won their last SB in '91.


Monk was the NFL's alltime receptions leader when he retired and the only player at the time who recorded at least one TD reception in 15 consecutive seasons. He was on the 1980s All Decade Team and IMO earned his spot in Canton.

Rice/Monk/Largent/Lofton/Stallworth were the best WRs of that decade, and if Monk doesn't belong there's a list of guys behind him who shouldn't be there either.
Obviously I don't think Monk is a bum. He was a very good player and had a career that he can be proud of.


The Redskins got to those SBs because of Monk. He wasn't some special teamer or assistant ball boy who won a ring.
Stop that. The Redskins could have played those games without him and they still would have won.

Super Bowl XVII ... strike shortened season (only played 9 games). Charlie Brown was the best WR on the team that year (by a significant margin and went over 1,200 yards the following the season where he was once again the best WR on the team). Monk was still only in his third season. This is the year the kicker won the MVP award. Anyway, Monk did not play in any of the postseason games due to injury. Alvin Garrett replaced him and caught 5 TDs in the 4 postseason games, including 1 in the Super Bowl. I guess Monk gets the credit for this Super Bowl win despite not playing in 1 postseason game?

Super Bowl XVIII ... this was the year Marcus Allen (Raiders) had the great run where he reversed field and took it to the house. The Redskins were dominated in the Super Bowl: 38-9. Monk had 1 catch for 26 yards in the game. In the Championship game against the 49ers (narrow 24-21 victory), Monk had 3 catches for 35 yards. Charlie Brown had 5 catches for 137 yards and 1 TD in this game. Brown had 3 catches for 93 yards in the Super Bowl. Against the Rams (in Monks first playoff game), Monk had 4 catches for 60 yards and 2 TDs. Fairly respectable. The Redskins won that game 51-7. Charlie Brown also chipped in with 6 catches for 171 yards in that game.

Monk had 1 catch for 40 yards against the Broncos in Super Bowl XXII where they won by 32 points. That was the only game he played in during their postseason run. Gary Clark was the best WR on the team this year. Ricky Sanders, however, had the best game and set a bunch of Super Bowl records for receiving yards (193) and total yards (235) to go along with 2 TDs. Most people remember this game for Doug Williams (black QB winning the SB) and Timmy Smith, the rookie RB that came out of nowhere, and then went on a crack binge once he became a big, bright shinny star. Once again, I guess you give Monk credit for winning the Super Bowl despite the fact that the Super Bowl was the only postseason game he played in this season and he had 1 catch in a blowout victory.

In Super Bowl XXVI he had one of his better playoff games where he had 7 catches for 113 yards in a 37-24 win over the Bills. He and Gary Clark (who was a much better player at this point in their careers) both went over 100 yards receiving (Clark also caught a TD). The Redskins blew out every team they played in the postseason and simply dominated the Bills as well. This was pretty much the last year Monk was a significant threat. It was also the only season where he had some kind of impact on the team winning a Super Bowl.


I have a different opinion on Hall of Fame players though. I don't care how long their careers lasted, what their career stats look like but if they were dominant players or not. I consider Terrell Davis one of the best RBs I have ever seen. I don't care that he only played for four seasons. I don't care. I'd rather watch a guy be dominant and leave the game at the peek of his career (Barry Sanders) than a guy who's good for a bunch of seasons and hang around for several seasons when he's all washed up.

That is basically a short capsule of Monks postseason career where the Redskins made the Super Bowl. In those years, he either missed most or all of the playoffs, or was not even the best WR on his team when they did win it all. Gary Clark was a very good player in his own right and had some enormous seasons, but there were several seasons where he was better than Monk and a few others were he was just as dangerous as Monk.

Its impossible for me to put a guy into the Hall of Fame when he wasn't one of the best players at his own position ... forget about the league, but even on his own team. And there were numerous years where other guys (Charlie Brown, Gary Clark, Ricky Sanders) were better than Monk. Monk had longevity and he was a very good player, but he is not in the same league as Jerry Rice. Jerry Rice is a Hall of Famer. No questions asked. Art Monk? Please. He never caught more than 8 TDs in a single season. Sterling Sharpe caught 65 TDs in 7 seasons compared to the 68 TD catches Monk had in 16 seasons. One player was dominant, the stats even show it, and one player was decent to good (and rarely dominant) for a long period of time. And as soon as Sharpe had a good QB (Favre - 1992), he had TD totals of 11, 13 and 18 (with declining health). Yet Sharpe will never get a sniff of Canton despite being a much better player than guys like Art Monk, Lynn Swann, Andre Reed and Tim Brown.

FUNBUNCHER
11-25-2011, 10:27 AM
BB, you have to get to the SB to win it.

Without Monk during the regular season, the Skins don't even have that opportunity.
Or without Monk's performance in the playoffs leading up to the SB(s).

WCH
11-25-2011, 11:06 AM
I think the odds of Ron Wolf getting in are pretty close to zero, but I'm glad to see him getting consideration. The late Joel Buchsbaum pointed out that the Raiders drafted great when he was with them, then they sucked, then drafted great when he came back, then they fell off again when he left. His 90's Packers were probably one of the best 1-Championship teams ever. If there were a scouting HoF, Wolf would be a first-ballot guy.

No ST player should get in before Ray Guy.

Tim Brown isn't a Hall of Fame WR. He's a Hall of Very Good WR. Before Sharpe's injury, Brown was the third best WR in his draft class. I don't remember ever thinking "Man, I wish we had that guy". He had a few great seasons, but having a few great seasons isn't enough to get a WR into the HoF.

It goes without saying that these were all great players so I don't want anybody to take this the wrong way, but this is sort of a bland class overall. If Chris Carter doesn't get in this year, I'll be shocked.

stephenson86
11-25-2011, 02:37 PM
This is the first class where a good number of the players I have seen play for 3+ years. Finally I can have an opinion.