Is Tyron Mathieu Eligible for 2012 NFL Draft? (NO)

[JBCX]

The kid looks like a stud playmaker at S or CB. Is he going to declare for 2012 or does he need to stay in college for one more year?

Is he a first round lock when he does declare, despite his small statue (5'8" ish)

[wicket]

The kid looks like a stud playmaker at S or CB. Is he going to declare for 2012 or does he need to stay in college for one more year?

Is he a first round lock when he does declare, despite his small statue (5'8" ish)

to asnwer it : No and No

he doesnt have the speed to be a true corner and is most likely a dominant special team player and nickel corner for a team. As much as Honey Badger is a playmaker the truely great corner is the one opposite to him

[JBCX]

to asnwer it : No and No

he doesnt have the speed to be a true corner and is most likely a dominant special team player and nickel corner for a team. As much as Honey Badger is a playmaker the truely great corner is the one opposite to him

I dont' see why he can't play FS at the next level. He is a turnover-forcing machine. He has a nose for the football.

[AntoinCD]

I dont' see why he can't play FS at the next level. He is a turnover-forcing machine. He has a nose for the football.

He's 5'8 180lbs at most. How is he going to tackle someone like Jason Witten or Rob Gronkowski or Brandon Jacobs etc on a consistent basis?

As was mentioned he will most likely be a nickel CB and KR/PR in the NFL.

[JBCX]

He's 5'8 180lbs at most. How is he going to tackle someone like Jason Witten or Rob Gronkowski or Brandon Jacobs etc on a consistent basis?

As was mentioned he will most likely be a nickel CB and KR/PR in the NFL.

Bob Sanders was shorter than 5'10". So is Jim Leonhard of the Jets.

Tackling is all about form and technique. It doesn't matter how short you are; if you use proper technique you can tackle anybody.

[AntoinCD]

Bob Sanders was shorter than 5'10". So is Jim Leonhard of the Jets.

Tackling is all about form and technique. It doesn't matter how short you are; if you use proper technique you can tackle anybody.

It's not necessarily just the height thing. Bob Sanders has been injured pretty much his whole career, plus he has about 25lbs on the honey badger. Jim Leonhard is solid but not exactly a great player.

[Saints-Tigers]

I think if you use him in the slot, and roaming like a safety, you might have a truly special player.

His usage might not be conventional, and you'll need true cover corners IMO, but if you can let him move around and play the ball, he can really make an impact. He'll slip further than he should, and people will regret it I think.

By the time he is NFL ready, he'll probably be about Ed Reed's size, shorter, but about that build, definitely big enough.

[AntoinCD]

I may be in the minority here but I think the days of having one dimensional safeties are coming to an end. There are too many variations and intricacies to offensive systems nowadays.

Seldom can teams be successful now with a big in the box safety and a centre fielder. With more teams who can run out of spread formations and throw out of power formations it is now essential to have safeties who can get deep to defend the pass but also take on blockers in the run game.

The best example I can use is the Patriots, because I am most familiar with them and they seem to do it as well as anyone else.

For example,

If they line up with two WRs, two TEs and a RB they can either run or throw out of this formation. If they feel the defense is in either way cheating on the play(ie Mathieu playing 20 yards deep playing the pass) they can exploit it.

Safeties now need to be able to play the run and the pass with equal measure. If they are one dimensional then they are easier to account for.

[cmarq83]

I don't think we can rule Tyrann Mathieu out of the first round right now. The past couple of years we've seen some smaller guys like Kareem Jackson and Kyle Wilson get selected in the first despite less than prototype size. It's not out of the question for Mathieu to pack on another 10 pounds or so before the 2013 draft.

Size hasn't prevented a guy like Samuel from being a pro bowl corner in the NFL, and some of the traits Mathieu has cannot be taught. To me if you're one of the best defensive players in the SEC there is a good chance you can make it in the NFL. Definitely not a top half type guy, but if I was picking at the end of the first and already had some solid guys in place on the defensive side of the ball, I wouldn't hesitate to go with Mathieu there.

[shylo3716]

Does Antoine Winfield, Jamar Fletcher ring a bell?

Both were under 5'10''

[ElectricEye]

The best example I can use is the Patriots, because I am most familiar with them and they seem to do it as well as anyone else.


We do safeties entirely the wrong way. We're philosophically wrong in the way we select these players, wouldn't use that as an example at all. I do agree that the days of the big, in the box guys are numbered, but we're not the guys to lay claim to being ahead of the curve in that area given that when we're healthy we start two in the box types and rotate one in.


I don't think we can rule Tyrann Mathieu out of the first round right now. The past couple of years we've seen some smaller guys like Kareem Jackson and Kyle Wilson get selected in the first despite less than prototype size. It's not out of the question for Mathieu to pack on another 10 pounds or so before the 2013 draft.

Size hasn't prevented a guy like Samuel from being a pro bowl corner in the NFL, and some of the traits Mathieu has cannot be taught. To me if you're one of the best defensive players in the SEC there is a good chance you can make it in the NFL. Definitely not a top half type guy, but if I was picking at the end of the first and already had some solid guys in place on the defensive side of the ball, I wouldn't hesitate to go with Mathieu there.

This is pretty much where I am as well. Size is a concern, but Mathieu is just a special player when you watch him. He has his limitations, but he does spectacular things that other guys simply can't do routinely. Guys with the ability to make things happen and create turnovers and make things happen like this don't come around very often, somebody is going to be willing to put in the extra work scheme-wise and get the most out of that.

[shylo3716]

If I were a GM, I would have no problem selecting a smurf-like CB in the 1st, especially if he has the grit of a Mathieu, just not within the first 10 picks.

[underscore]

Even David Macklin carved out an 8-year career at a generously listed 5'9.

[PossibleCabbage]

Unless he runs much better than I expect him to, I think he's an early day 3 pick with "core special teamer, reserve defensive back (at best slot-corner in the nickel)" in the mind of the team that drafts him.

You love how he plays, and you'd like him on your team, but no way do you take him high, since he's really unlikely to be a starter in the NFL. Since "small and slow" is the worst thing you can be as a DB.

[AntoinCD]

We do safeties entirely the wrong way. We're philosophically wrong in the way we select these players, wouldn't use that as an example at all. I do agree that the days of the big, in the box guys are numbered, but we're not the guys to lay claim to being ahead of the curve in that area given that when we're healthy we start two in the box types and rotate one in.


Yeah I think I worded it wrong I meant the Patriots from an offensive perspective and trying to defend them

[ATLDirtyBirds]

Kid can just ball. At this time, I'm not sure if he's ever more than a playmaking nickle/KR/PR, but in the right scheme, it all could work out. Look at Brent Grimes for example, playing at an extremely high level despite probably being 5'9 180.

[TitanHope]

Both he and Cortland Finnegan are used similarly. Play outside, and then on 3rd down or nickel defense, switch inside and use your playmaking ability to rush the passer, counter the draw, or cover the slot WR.

It'll depend on the team, but if I run a lot of zone and have a good defense in place, then adding a playmaker like Mathieu to play #2 CB/NB would be worth a late 1st RD pick or so.

And nowadays, NB's get a ton of playing time. It's not really a reserve position anymore. The Titans used to play their NB as much as their MLB. It's why they never took an ILB early or signed a big time FA. Just didn't value it because of the scheme.

[wicket]

I don't think we can rule Tyrann Mathieu out of the first round right now. The past couple of years we've seen some smaller guys like Kareem Jackson and Kyle Wilson get selected in the first despite less than prototype size. It's not out of the question for Mathieu to pack on another 10 pounds or so before the 2013 draft.

Size hasn't prevented a guy like Samuel from being a pro bowl corner in the NFL, and some of the traits Mathieu has cannot be taught. To me if you're one of the best defensive players in the SEC there is a good chance you can make it in the NFL. Definitely not a top half type guy, but if I was picking at the end of the first and already had some solid guys in place on the defensive side of the ball, I wouldn't hesitate to go with Mathieu there.

i dont think mathieu cant go first round, just that he isnt a lock.

His size isnt the only worry, he gambles A LOT and just doesnt play a man shutdown corner role. Those other guys did.

[thegreatone]

I think he could line up just about anywhere in the secondary.

I don't know if he has a true position, but he'd be an absolute headache for offenses.

[descendency]

When you have to worry about scheme, you aren't a first rounder.

[TitanHope]

When you have to worry about scheme, you aren't a first rounder.

I wholeheartedly disagree. All the teams having different big boards helps contradict this too. Good teams always take scheme into account, and it's smart to put a player in the best position for him to succeed. And just because you value guys who fit what you do more than those who don't doesn't mean the players who don't aren't comparable in talent.

[PossibleCabbage]

I wholeheartedly disagree. All the teams having different big boards helps contradict this too. Good teams always take scheme into account, and it's smart to put a player in the best position for him to succeed. And just because you value guys who fit what you do more than those who don't doesn't mean the players who don't aren't comparable in talent.

I think what descendency means by "worrying about scheme" is more "we can only play him if we do [this] with him" and not "does he fit what we like to do on [offense/defense]?"

It's the same reason why guys who are perceived as "third down backs" or "2-down linebackers" aren't generally first round picks, since you'd prefer to have a player that you can play all the time. I don't think you take nickel corners in the first round either, which is, most likely, what Mathieu is.

That being said, I think pretty much all sufficiently good players should be able to play in a variety of schemes, since football is, at its essence, pretty much just running, hitting, tackling, and scheme responsibility. If you're not "sufficiently good" you're probably not worth a first round pick.

[rawdawg]

Mathieu has a lot of work to do in the weight room this offseason (and maybe 1 more offseason too). If he's a legit, 5'9" which is debateable, then he needs to get up to at least 190lbs to be in consideration for the 1st round. Not to mention, he's going to have to keep up his play for another year.

Right now, he's listed at 175lbs. He looks as thin as that weight suggests. But if he can put on the weight, without losing much speed, there's no reason he can't be a 1st round pick. Alfonso Smith was a high 2nd at 5-9, 193. DJ Moore is 5-9, 190ish and was a 3rd round pick who is performing well for the Bears. He ran in the mid 4.5s and didn't have Mathieu's numbers. Another Bear, Tim Jennings was a 2nd rounder at only 5-8, 185.

The league is full of 5-10 CBs. Most of them who go in the 1st 2 rounds run in the mid-to-late 4.4s are worst. Anyone shorter than 5-10 or slower than 4.45 has to have something special about them. I think Mathieu has a chance to be that special player that goes in the first despite not blowing away the combine in measurements. There's a lot of ifs, but if Mathieu can measure at a legit 5'9", can add 10-15 pounds, can continue to make plays next year, and can stay out of trouble....then he's a 1st round pick. I don't buy the scheme issue. As the saying goes, "it only takes just 1". Mathieu has the versatility to play the run on the outside on early downs, press cover outside on the pass, run and make plays on the slot WR, and possibly even make some plays in CF as a FS. Some team is going to take him early if the "ifs" come to fruition.

[fenikz]

Honey Badger is like an elite version of Michael Adams of the Cardinals

[PossibleCabbage]

In light of the "it only takes 1" observation (which is true) it's probably most productive to consider which teams picking late in the first would actually take him in the first round (since he's obviously not going to to a team who's picking high in the first round, and he's not the sort of player you trade up for an extra first round pick to get.)

I can say with near-complete certainty that there is no chance that the Green Bay Packers would select him in the first (or any other) round. Ted Thompson simply does not draft defensive backs below 5-11.

[TACKLE]

Is he a first round lock when he does declare

Ummm people know that Honey Badger's only a true sophomore, right?