PDA

View Full Version : DACKLE's Tecember Thraft Doughts


TACKLE
12-02-2011, 03:24 PM
TACKLE on Tackles

- Riley Reiff is a Matt Light clone. The question becomes, how high do you draft a solid but unspectacular long term starter?

- Although he can probably play guard at a high level, I still see Kelechi Osemele as a RT first. Although speed rushers will be a question for him on the outside, his skills and style of play project better to RT at this point. Heís a surprisingly good straight line athlete, both moving forward and backwards. However, his biggest weakness as a football player is his lack of lateral agility which is really essential to play guard. At tackle, he makes up for it by always being in the right positional relationship to the DE, he rarely over sets and is technically sound on the outside. Maybe he can be a plug and play at guard, but Iíd give him a shot as a RT first.

- As far as where they were as juniors, Matt Kalil is right there in the same class as Long and Thomas as a prospect. He has the talent to be an elite LT in the NFL.

- I donít know why people are still so high on Jonathan Martin. Honestly, I donít see what makes him a superior prospect to former 33rd overall pick, Roger Saffold. We see Martinís feet get exposed whenever he lines up against a top pass rusher. Although the teamís success has peaked with Luck in his final year, from a development standpoint, I think Martin would be smart to go back to school and try to improve in his senior year.


Wide Wide Reciever Class

- Justin Blackmon is a great player but I donít know if he has the physical upside to warrant a top 7 pick.

- And even thought this WR is incredibly deep though I donít know if this draft produces a top tier player at the position.

- Speaking of this WR class, the #3 WR debate will be an interesting one. With Blackmon and Floyd seemingly being 1 and 2, that 3rd WR spot is in flux with Alshon's struggles this year and the emergence of some other talents. Rueben Randle is currently my horse in that race. 6í3, explosive, great hands, great body control, can set up DBís and shows the ability to maintain speed in and out of his breaks. Heís only played WR for 3 years now and shown significant progression each year. If he even had slightly competent QB play, he would be getting first round consideration. I really believe he has the talent to potentially end up being the best WR in this draft.

- Joe Adams will be electric wherever he lands.



- It`s interesting how much appearances can affect perception....I think I`d like RG3 a lot more as a prospect if he was 6`3 225 than I do with him being 6`1 215. His low release point can be a bit of an issue for him but does an inch or two and 10lbs really separate him from being a really good QB from an average one? I donít know the answer. I try to just focus in on projecting skill sets but build it can't help from entering the picture. Because right now, I canít help but see a frail QB who I question how strong he will be in the pocket and I wonder if his arm can actually Ďmake all the throwsí well. If he had the same skill set but was bigger, would I perceive his skill set differently. Just something Iíve been pondering lately....

- On the same note, how much will it effect peopleís perception of Barkley if he comes in and measures in at 6í1 (which is also quite possible).


- The Poe vs. Taíamu debate intrigues me. Both very talented big men who can be impact players in either a 34 or 43 defense. Both have bouts of inconsistency but those problems are more technical. There issues are almost opposites. Taíamu can be a very power force upfield but doesnít always hold and control his gap like youíd like to see from a NT prospect. Poe on the other hand is very disciplined in controlling his gap but thinks to much and doesnít use his power to create plays in the backfield consistently. I like both guys a lot and think that Ta'amu may be the better player right now. But still, Iím giving a slight edge to Poe right now because of what he can be. From a purely physical standpoint, he has the most impressive size, strength athleticism combo Iíve seen since Ngata. Obviously I'm not saying he is or will ever be on Ngata's level as a football player. But like Ngata, Poe can thrive in any position in either a 34 or 43 front other than 43 DE. He's still a ways away from putting it all together but with NFL coaching, the sky is the limit for him.


Know This Name

Tramain Thomas, FS, Arkansas - 6í0 200, Sr.

I just went back and watched the Arkansas-LSU game and this guy really popped off the screen. We all saw him come up and make that big hit to force the fumble 6 early in the game but he was always around the ball and it felt like he was in on every other tackle. You could see the combination of natural athletic skills and fluidity to go along with physicality and willing to tackle. I went and checked out his numbers after the game and all this guy has done is quietly produced for the last three years in the SEC. 12 INTís over the past three seasons including 5 this year to go along with 80+ tackles in each of the past two years. The more I watch of him and the more I learn about him, the more Thomas strikes me as a real playmaker whoís really the complete package at safety. Heís a guy Iím going to try to go back and watch as much on as possible. Heís an aggressive, fluid athlete who can be the coverage FS or the box SS. He really looks the part as one of the most well-rounded safety prospects in this draft. Keep your eye on him.

Not that this really you tells you much about him, I just thought this play was pretty coolio....
p1HFh-Byypk



- Although most drafts are usually quite strong in this area, I really donít care for the depth at RB in this draft class.


- Although I was down on him coming into the year because he was so one-dimensional, that one dimension, pass rush ability, is whatís going to keep Bruce Irvin in the first round. He is just such an explosive athlete off the edge who can threaten the corner every snap but also sets up OTís well for inside moves. I really like how he consistently plays with leverage which allows him to compensate for his size. The role heís playing this year is really a terrible fit as heís playing DE in a 3-3-5 and is lined up head up on the tackles a lot of the time. Though I guess it could be beneficial in the sense that it forces him to be more physical. Heís not quite that level of athlete though he is close, Von Millerís success will undoubtedly help Irvinís stock. Physically, Irvin is closely comparable to Cam Wake. Heís certainly a risky pick but if he tests like people are expecting, someone in round 1 takes a chance on that edge rush ability.


- On paper, Devon Still has everything you look for in a top DT prospect but Iím still (pun intended) having a hard time getting excited about him as a prospect. Heís just one of those guys who doesnít pop in one particular area. Playing with better leverage would go along way to making him a better, more impactful DT play-in/play-out.


- If Janoris Jenkins goes most of pro career without getting caught too many times with the Devilís Lettuce in his system, he can be one of the best CBís in the league. Haden has been very good for the Browns and I felt that Jenkins was a better athlete and a better football player when they were playing opposite of each other at UF.


Obligatory Andrew Luck Mention

- Although it does get brought up, the importance of Andrew Luckís athleticism does not get emphasized enough. His ability to move within the pocket, use his legs to extend plays outside the pocket and his ability to throw on the run is easily one of the most important elements of his game.

fear the elf
12-02-2011, 03:28 PM
That title was way harder to read than it should have been.

Oh yeah, and nice work :)

TACKLE
12-02-2011, 03:29 PM
That title was way harder to read than it should have been.

Mission Accomplished! :P

DraftSavant
12-02-2011, 03:36 PM
You are my Canadian doppleganger. Bravo, sir.

Not enough Shea, however.

ElectricEye
12-02-2011, 03:43 PM
I don't understand the lack of chatter on Rueben Randle for the life of me. He's playing on the best team in the country with big time nationally televised games and showing up in them too(with the exception of Bama, where no one showed up offensively) in spite of some really atrocious quarterback play.

marshallb
12-02-2011, 03:45 PM
Great thread, I agree with you on so many things it's almost scary, especially on Kalil and Blackmon

AntoinCD
12-02-2011, 03:48 PM
Nice writeup. I particluarly agree about Still and Jenkins.

I think Reiff will go around the 20-30 range. He doesn't have huge upside but sometimes being solid is all you need from your OT

ATLDirtyBirds
12-02-2011, 04:00 PM
Only thing I disagree with is RGIII. His size is not a concern to me.

Big Bird
12-02-2011, 04:34 PM
I don't get why Josh Chapman gets no respect for the top 3-4 NT in this draft. He isn't flashy, but 3-4 NT's aren't suppose to be. He is a rock in the middle. The man simply doesn't get moved. He was exceptional in the 'Game of the Century'.

Devon Still has Kevin Williams potential. His ability and potential are freakishly good.

TACKLE
12-02-2011, 04:53 PM
I don't get why Josh Chapman gets no respect for the top 3-4 NT in this draft. He isn't flashy, but 3-4 NT's aren't suppose to be. He is a rock in the middle. The man simply doesn't get moved. He was exceptional in the 'Game of the Century'.

Chapman reminds me a ton of Kelly Gregg. I guy who's undersized for his position but compensates for it by playing with great leverage, being tough and knowing how to play the position. He can be a solid cog in a defense but I don't think he has the size and physical tools to be a dominant player on the next level.

ellsy82
12-02-2011, 07:55 PM
I don't understand the lack of chatter on Rueben Randle for the life of me. He's playing on the best team in the country with big time nationally televised games and showing up in them too(with the exception of Bama, where no one showed up offensively) in spite of some really atrocious quarterback play.

No kidding. Randle reminds me of a bigger, more polished Randal Cobb (and I'm not just saying that because of their similar names). I expect him to be drafted early to mid 2nd round (if he declares).

It might do him some good to go back to school, increase his stats, and THEN someone will hopefully notice him in 2012. Could be a top 15 pick when all is said and done.

ellsy82
12-02-2011, 07:57 PM
I don't get why Josh Chapman gets no respect for the top 3-4 NT in this draft. He isn't flashy, but 3-4 NT's aren't suppose to be. He is a rock in the middle. The man simply doesn't get moved. He was exceptional in the 'Game of the Century'.

Devon Still has Kevin Williams potential. His ability and potential are freakishly good.

Will he command double team at the next level? If not, then he has no business being a 3-4 NT. If he's gonna be only 310ish pounds coming out, he'd better be able to be a 1gap guy as well. Especially where he's gonna be drafted.

rawdawg
12-03-2011, 08:02 AM
OTs- agree for the most part. Dead on with Kalil and Reiff in my opinion. I'd put Kalil between Joe Thomas and Jake Long. Not as big as Long, but a better athlete. Joe Thomas is just a freak though, and the best OT prospect in recent history. Can't quite put Kalil there, but he's going to be one of the best from Day 1. Also agree on Jonathan Martin. I'm almost to the point of rating Mike Adams higher. As for Osemele, I think it depends on the scheme. Agree you don't want him to pull around the edge much at OG, but in a power scheme, he's going to have the size/strength to block DTs and going to destroy a LB on the 2nd level.

WRs- Agree completely. Blackmon is going to be good, but he's not an elite talent like Green, Julio, Megatron, and other WRs we've seen in the top 7. Randle's definitely underrated, sleeper for late 1st round IMO, and I think he should definitely come out this year. Better year to sneak into the first than next year. Adams is going to be a better pro WR than he is in college. Gets lumped with slot WRs, but I think he can play the outside with no problem.

Qbs- I think RG3 is right in the middle. He's listed at 6'2", 220. He definitely looks taller than 6'1" to me. Of course, he does have long arms and legs and appears lanky. But I don't think teams will care about his or Barkley's height.

Rest- Agree on Thomas. Don't agree on Jenkins being a better player at UF than Haden, but he definitely didn't take a back seat to him. A steal if someone lets him get out of the first round. Still, I think will be a star if he goes to the right situation. He seems like a guy that needs some legit motivation and talent around him. He's not going to be as good as he should be if he goes to a team as the centerpiece of their DL. If he's the missing piece of a puzzle, he's going to be really good.

A Perfect Score
12-03-2011, 03:10 PM
I don't think Blackmon's physical limitations are any greater then that of someone like Michael Crabtree. He's going to measure in around 6'1 215 and I'd venture to guess he'll run somewhere between 4.45 and 4.5. Those aren't really shoddy numbers athletically. I think we've been somewhat spoiled as of late with prospects like AJ Green, Dez Bryant, and Julio Jones who possess astronomical athletic numbers, but Blackmon's already a better receiver then any of those 3 were as prospects. It's interesting, but I don't think a lack of athleticism will be what keeps Blackmon out of the Top 7 (Although I do think he goes later then that).

I agree about Jon Martin, and I think you're right in saying around Pick 33 is where his value should sit. I think most involved draftniks would have Mike Adams rated higher at this point, or at least projected higher.

Also, queue the Drew Brees comparisons if Barkley measures in around 6'1. That'll be fun to hear about on NFL Network for a few months.

TACKLE
12-03-2011, 04:12 PM
I don't think Blackmon's physical limitations are any greater then that of someone like Michael Crabtree. He's going to measure in around 6'1 215 and I'd venture to guess he'll run somewhere between 4.45 and 4.5. Those aren't really shoddy numbers athletically. I think we've been somewhat spoiled as of late with prospects like AJ Green, Dez Bryant, and Julio Jones who possess astronomical athletic numbers, but Blackmon's already a better receiver then any of those 3 were as prospects. It's interesting, but I don't think a lack of athleticism will be what keeps Blackmon out of the Top 7 (Although I do think he goes later then that).

Well in hindsight, Crabtree wasn't worth anywhere near where he was drafted and a lot that has to do with the fact that he's not the type of athlete who can create mismatches.

Also, there is NO WAY that Blackmon is a better receiver than AJ or Dez, at all, in any way. Players at OSU still say that Dez was better and you think AJ wouldn't have close to 2000 yards if he played in that offense? There is literally nothing Blackmon does better than AJ as a WR other than being a bit stronger. Maybe you could make a case for Julio because he was raw but Blackmon has the same body catching issues. And I didn't say that I don't think he will go in the top 7, I said I don't think he deserves to.

bored of education
12-03-2011, 05:10 PM
Blackmon is not nearly the prospect as AJ Green and his game does not translate even close to how Julio Jones game translated. Minus the off the field issues, Dez is a supremely greater prospect than Dez

rawdawg
12-03-2011, 05:10 PM
How much of Crabtree's issues have been caused by terrible QB play? I know he's done and said some stupid things and can't stay healthy consistently, but he's only in his 3rd season. This has been his best season so far, and his team is still 29th in passing yards in the NFL.

I think Blackmon is a very similar player, but seems to have better work ethic. But if he goes in a bad passing offense, he will put up similar numbers too.

TACKLE
12-03-2011, 05:16 PM
How much of Crabtree's issues have been caused by terrible QB play? I know he's done and said some stupid things and can't stay healthy consistently, but he's only in his 3rd season. This has been his best season so far, and his team is still 29th in passing yards in the NFL.

Oh I agree with that but even if Crabtree continues to improve and gets better QB play, in hindsight I still don't think he was worth a top 10 pick. And this is coming from someone who had Crabtree as his #1 overall prospect that year (for some reason I didn't love Stafford and that was a horrible draft at the top anyway).

ElectricEye
12-03-2011, 05:17 PM
Blackmon is not nearly the prospect as AJ Green and his game does not translate even close to how Julio Jones game translated. Minus the off the field issues, Dez is a supremely greater prospect than Dez

Yeah, I'm really with you guys on this one too. Never bought into Blackmon as the mega-elite guy people had him pegged as. He's a safe bet to be a very good player, but there's really not that much more projection there with him and he's not going to be outrunning guys in NFL secondaries after the catch like he's able to in the Big XII.

DeepThreat
12-04-2011, 03:54 PM
I would just like to point out that APS is as high as a kite and that Blackmon isn't near the level of Green, Jones or Bryant. All three of those guys have the physical ability to become elite players, unlike Blackmon.

DraftSavant
12-04-2011, 04:24 PM
Well in hindsight, Crabtree wasn't worth anywhere near where he was drafted and a lot that has to do with the fact that he's not the type of athlete who can create mismatches.

Also, there is NO WAY that Blackmon is a better receiver than AJ or Dez, at all, in any way. Players at OSU still say that Dez was better and you think AJ wouldn't have close to 2000 yards if he played in that offense? There is literally nothing Blackmon does better than AJ as a WR other than being a bit stronger. Maybe you could make a case for Julio because he was raw but Blackmon has the same body catching issues. And I didn't say that I don't think he will go in the top 7, I said I don't think he deserves to.

So I'm not the only one who's noticed this. He doesn't really do it along the perimeter, but it's really noticeable on most routes he runs with an inside break.

I just don't see anything about his game that would keep an NFL defensive coordinator or cornerback up at night.

marshallb
12-04-2011, 05:33 PM
I'm with you guys on Blackmon. I see his upside as Anquan Boldin, which there's nothing wrong with, but it's not the elite upside like those recent top WR prospects have had or even that Floyd has or even Jeffery has, they've got a lot lower floor than Blackmon, though.

DeepThreat
12-04-2011, 05:43 PM
I'm with you guys on Blackmon. I see his upside as Anquan Boldin, which there's nothing wrong with, but it's not the elite upside like those recent top WR prospects have had or even that Floyd has or even Jeffery has, they've got a lot lower floor than Blackmon, though.

Completely agree with this. I will say, however, that I would not touch Jeffery in the first round, maybe not even the second.

marshallb
12-04-2011, 05:49 PM
Completely agree with this. I will say, however, that I would not touch Jeffery in the first round, maybe not even the second.

I'm kind of with you on that. Although I would say that I would touch Jeffery late first, just because of the upside that he has if you can get/keep him motivated.

Iamcanadian
12-05-2011, 12:04 AM
I would just like to point out that APS is as high as a kite and that Blackmon isn't near the level of Green, Jones or Bryant. All three of those guys have the physical ability to become elite players, unlike Blackmon.

Not sure yet what potential Blackmon has as a WR. A lot will depend on his 40 time at the combine, If Blackmon runs at an elite speed around 4.40 - 4.45, then his potential is off the charts but not as high as Green but maybe in the Jones range.
I don't know how Bryant gets thrown in to this conversation. He simply lacks the intelligence to compare with these other 3 guys. He has great physical talent but will never be a solid route runner and therefore will never be a super star at the next level. He completely lacks football smarts but is carried by great physical talent.

A Perfect Score
12-05-2011, 12:21 AM
I would just like to point out that APS is as high as a kite and that Blackmon isn't near the level of Green, Jones or Bryant. All three of those guys have the physical ability to become elite players, unlike Blackmon.

I didn't say that whatsoever. In fact, I said the opposite. I don't think Blackmon possess the elite athletic level of Green, Jones, or Bryant. In fact, I state that explicitly. What I do think is that Blackmon is a more polished player now then all 3 of them were as prospects, with Green being the only one who comes close to Blackmon's ability as both a technician and a route runner. Even then, it's a much more natural process for Green whereas watching Blackmon play, you can tell he's playing with developed technique. Where the athleticism argument comes into play is while I don't think that Blackmon is as good of an athlete as Green, or Jones, or Bryant, I think he's a more developed and polished receiver then all three of them were coming out.

And I'm not hating on any of them whatsoever, as I loved Green and Bryant as much as anyone and while I wasn't nearly as high on Julio as most, I certainly wasn't actively condemning his game. Let's not forget, I had Dez Bryant rated as the #3 player in his class right up until Draft Day and I had AJ Green as a legitimate contender for the #1 pick.

TACKLE
12-05-2011, 01:04 AM
I feel as if you're using the word 'polish' as a word that really means 'he has better stats despite being an inferior athlete but I can't explain why'. What Blackmon does best is after the catch, not before.

DraftSavant
12-05-2011, 10:53 AM
Am I crazy to think that he's not going to be a huge YAC monster in the NFL like he is in college?

bruschis4all
12-05-2011, 11:21 AM
I think some of you guys would be surprised how much character and brains are factored into a prospects grade. It's not just about who has the better 40 time.

DraftSavant
12-05-2011, 11:25 AM
I think some of you guys would be surprised how much character and brains are factored into a prospects grade. It's not just about who has the better 40 time.

There's no universal draft board, so it really varies from team to team.

bruschis4all
12-05-2011, 11:33 AM
There's no universal draft board, so it really varies from team to team.

Good teams factor it in. And, crappy ones don't. When you deviate from your own system. It's usually a fail. Read Michael Holley's book War Room. You'll read some interesting stories in there. Belichick was advised that his scouts and coaches didn't like Chad Jackson. But, his buddy Urban Meyer said he's ok. BB picks Jackson against teams wishes and fail. Same with Maroney. BB wanted him but the scouts/coaches weren't as high on him because they had to deal with him every day.

TACKLE
12-06-2011, 02:27 AM
Good teams factor it in. And, crappy ones don't. When you deviate from your own system. It's usually a fail. Read Michael Holley's book War Room. You'll read some interesting stories in there. Belichick was advised that his scouts and coaches didn't like Chad Jackson. But, his buddy Urban Meyer said he's ok. BB picks Jackson against teams wishes and fail. Same with Maroney. BB wanted him but the scouts/coaches weren't as high on him because they had to deal with him every day.

Well that's just how the draft works. The people with the most information (the scouts) have the least influence come draft day.

FUNBUNCHER
12-06-2011, 06:45 AM
Blackmon/Hakeem Nicks/Dez Bryant are very similar players to me, giving Dez a slight edge because he seems to play bigger than his size.