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View Full Version : Who should play LSU in the title game now?


J-Mike88
12-04-2011, 08:26 AM
Now it's all been settled..... has it?

I live in Texas, just next door to Louisiana... where it's SEC country.
Many folks in SEC country believe football doesn't exist outside the SEC.

Who should get to play against LSU in the "mythical" BCS Championship game?

-Alabama again or
-Oklahoma State?

STILLWATER, Okla. -- The question of whether or not No. 2 Alabama should be penalized already has been answered. While No. 3 Oklahoma State beat its archrival No. 10 Oklahoma, 44-10, getting a last and very powerful word before the BCS judges, its rival for the Mercedes-Benz Superdome sideline opposite No. 1 LSU watched mutely from Tuscaloosa.

The Crimson Tide didn't play Saturday because it's not a conference champion. That's a feeling with which the Cowboys are all too familiar. They had never won an outright conference championship. Ever.

Oklahoma State head coach Mike Gundy, who five days ago explained that it wouldn't be fair to rank his Cowboys ahead of the Tide, had a change of heart Saturday night.

"They had their shot," Gundy said. "Just give us ours."

Smooth Criminal
12-04-2011, 08:29 AM
I think Alabama should. I don't think it's fair to count them out just because they already lost to LSU. Alabamas loss was to a much better team than OkSts, so I think Alabama is the better team and deserves the shot.

It's as simple as that. Alabama is in the top two teams in the country.

Ozzy
12-04-2011, 08:45 AM
Alabama, not even close....


Oklahoma State impressed last night, but Oklahoma is a tanking football team the end of this year. The loss of Broyles was huge for them, and Whaley not being the running back, much less the injuries on the defensive line. That was not a full strength Oklahoma team that they beat.

Great win for Oklahoma State, but just be thankful for a BCS bowl opportunity and win instead of a potential BCS loss in the title game. They should be thankful for what they got.

Trogdor
12-04-2011, 08:51 AM
Simple as ranking quality wins, strength of schedule, and conference ranking.

Oklahoma State takes all three (dominating Oklahoma > any of 'bamas wins easily, S.O.S isn't close (7th vs 42nd), and winning your conference > finishing second in your DIVISION and watching the championship game from home). 'Bama scheduled cupcakes for non-conf and doesn't deserve a shot with one-loss on that schedule.

Halsey
12-04-2011, 08:54 AM
Alabama is a better team and Oklahoma State lost to Iowa State.

Also, Oklahoma State's non-conference schedule was nothing to pound their chest about.

Brent
12-04-2011, 09:08 AM
Okie State earned it.

Grizzlegom
12-04-2011, 09:12 AM
Alabama has the more impressive loss but OK State has the more impressive schedule plus its a conference champion. I agree with Gundy, they had their shot, given the way the BCS is designed, they don't deserve a second chance.

Halsey
12-04-2011, 09:24 AM
Not buying the arguments for strength of schedule made by people supporting Oklahoma State. Arkansas outranks anyone on Oklahoma State's schedule and Penn State outranks any non-conference opponent on Oklahoma State's schedule.

Also, Oklahoma State lost to Iowa State.

Complex
12-04-2011, 10:09 AM
Bama would of won their conference championship if they played in the Big 12. Its not their fault that the best teams play in the SEC.

JoeJoeBrown
12-04-2011, 10:20 AM
Bama would of won their conference championship if they played in the Big 12. Its not their fault that the best teams play in the SEC.

You need to clarify that to sec west. And only half of those.

Iamcanadian
12-04-2011, 11:41 AM
If you aren't a conference champion then you don't deserve to be in the National Championship game. Alabama knows that formula since the SEC champion got in over Michigan. Michigan lost by 3 to the #1 team at their opponents field, Alabama lost to LSU at home so their argument is even weaker.
Oklahoma St. is their conference champion and they clearly deserve their shot if you want a real national championship game.

diabsoule
12-04-2011, 11:54 AM
The precedence was set in 2006 when #1 Ohio State hosted #2 Michigan. Ted Ginn Jr recovered a Michigan on-side kick to preserve the Buckeye's win. Michigan fell in the standings then and voters chose a 1 loss Florida team who lost to Auburn and barely squeaked by Tennessee and South Carolina (1 point wins over both) and struggled against Vanderbilt (6 point win).

The voters chose Florida because they were against a re-match pointing out that Michigan had their chance in the regular season. The same is true for Alabama.

The Crimson Tide had their shot at LSU AT HOME in Tuscaloosa and came up short. Sure, the same reasoning Les Miles used in 2007 applies now. It also applies for Oklahoma State. "We're undefeated in regulation" is true. It's also true that Alabama's only loss is to the #1 team in the country. But that's why you play the game. Alabama's season was on the line in that game. They lost therefore they didn't win their division and didn't get to play for a chance to win their conference.

Oklahoma State lost in double overtime to Iowa State in Ames following a tragedy that affect their university (although I doubt any of the players could have named the women's basketball head coach). After they lost, however, they went on to decimate the second best team in their conference, arch-rival Oklahoma.

Who deserves it more? Oklahoma State. The Cowboys have 5 wins over top 25 teams, Alabama has 3. Alabama's loss is prettier than Oklahoma State's but in my opinion it's about body of work and Oklahoma State has the more impressive body of work over Alabama.

JoeJoeBrown
12-04-2011, 11:59 AM
The precedence was set in 2006 when #1 Ohio State hosted #2 Michigan. Ted Ginn Jr recovered a Michigan on-side kick to preserve the Buckeye's win. Michigan fell in the standings then and voters chose a 1 loss Florida team who lost Auburn and barely squeaked by Tennessee and South Carolina (1 point wins over both) and struggled against Vanderbilt (6 point win).

The voters chose Florida because they were against a re-match pointing out that Michigan had their chance in the regular season. The same is true for Alabama.

The Crimson Tide had their shot at LSU AT HOME in Tuscaloosa and came up short. Sure, the same reasoning Les Miles used in 2007 applies now. It also applies for Oklahoma State. "We're undefeated in regulation" is true. It's also true that Alabama's only loss is to the #1 team in the country. But that's why you play the game. Alabama's season was on the line in that game. They lost therefore they didn't win their division and didn't get to play for a chance to win their conference.

Oklahoma State lost in double overtime to Iowa State in Ames following a tragedy that affect their university (although I doubt any of the players could have named the women's basketball head coach). After they lost, however, they went on to decimate the second best team in their conference, arch-rival Oklahoma.

Who deserves it more? Oklahoma State. The Cowboys have 5 wins over top 25 teams, Alabama has 3. Alabama's loss is prettier than Oklahoma State's but in my opinion it's about body of work and Oklahoma State has the more impressive body of work over Alabama.

Well said! +1billion rep

Iamcanadian
12-04-2011, 12:00 PM
The precedence was set in 2006 when #1 Ohio State hosted #2 Michigan. Ted Ginn Jr recovered a Michigan on-side kick to preserve the Buckeye's win. Michigan fell in the standings then and voters chose a 1 loss Florida team who lost Auburn and barely squeaked by Tennessee and South Carolina (1 point wins over both) and struggled against Vanderbilt (6 point win).

The voters chose Florida because they were against a re-match pointing out that Michigan had their chance in the regular season. The same is true for Alabama.

The Crimson Tide had their shot at LSU AT HOME in Tuscaloosa and came up short. Sure, the same reasoning Les Miles used in 2007 applies now. It also applies for Oklahoma State. "We're undefeated in regulation" is true. It's also true that Alabama's only loss is to the #1 team in the country. But that's why you play the game. Alabama's season was on the line in that game. They lost therefore they didn't win their division and didn't get to play for a chance to win their conference.

Oklahoma State lost in double overtime to Iowa State in Ames following a tragedy that affect their university (although I doubt any of the players could have named the women's basketball head coach). After they lost, however, they went on to decimate the second best team in their conference, arch-rival Oklahoma.

Who deserves it more? Oklahoma State. The Cowboys have 5 wins over top 25 teams, Alabama has 3. Alabama's loss is prettier than Oklahoma State's but in my opinion it's about body of work and Oklahoma State has the more impressive body of work over Alabama.

I think this sums up the situation prefectly and is why Alabama shouldn't be in the game. The BCS gave in to pressure against Michigan who had an even more valid claim than Alabama and let Florida into the game. Now it is Oklahoma St.'s turn.

Halsey
12-04-2011, 12:07 PM
Alabama beat 4 ranked teams. Stop trying to cherry pick the rankings that fit your argument. Oklahoma State's body of work was not more impressive. Alabama killed everyone they played, except #1 ranked LSU.

The reason Florida was chosen ahead of Michigan is because Florida was the better team.

JoeJoeBrown
12-04-2011, 12:08 PM
Twitterverse is indicating that Bama is going to barely make the cut.

JRTPlaya21
12-04-2011, 12:22 PM
I'm sorry but a tragedy doesn't erase a 24-7 lead. That is called being a slight bit overrated. Heck Stanford is a more complete team then OSU and nobody is hyping up their case. Bama is 2 in the Coaches & AP right now and #2 in three computer polls. Barring some killer voter fraud this one is all but over. If Bama had lost to like Vandy would they deserve to be in it? Would they have blown a 24-7 lead at Ames? Highly doubtful. But if OSU does make it in good luck to them.....

diabsoule
12-04-2011, 12:35 PM
Alabama beat 4 ranked teams. Stop trying to cherry pick the rankings that fit your argument. Oklahoma State's body of work was not more impressive. Alabama killed everyone they played, except #1 ranked LSU.

The reason Florida was chosen ahead of Michigan is because Florida was the better team.

You're arguing with an LSU fan and an SEC fan. Alabama has beat 4 ranked teams if you just glance at their schedule on ESPN. If you look at the week 13 rankings then it'll show that teams that Oklahoma State has beaten have fallen out of the rankings and teams they had beaten that weren't ranked rose to becoming ranked. Same is true for Alabama.

Right now LSU has defeated 8 ranked opponents but when looking back on the 2011 season are you going to remember Mississippi State, Florida, and Auburn as being ranked opponents? No, you're going to remember them being average teams (two are 6-6, one is 7-5). So looking at it from a ranking perspective of this week, LSU has defeated 5 ranked teams.

When the new BCS rankings come out today the amount of ranked teams LSU will still be 5. Alabama will have defeated 2 (Penn State, Arkansas) and Oklahoma State four.

When Oklahoma State beat Texas A&M earlier this year they were ranked 8th. They finished 6-6. When they beat Baylor they were unranked. Kansas State was 14th. Baylor and KSU will have finished as top 15 teams at the end of the season.

And in 2006, it was hard to tell if Florida was the better team than Michigan. The Wolverine's were undefeated going into the Ohio State and their only regular season loss was the #1 ranked team in the country. As I pointed out earlier, Florida had barely defeated two teams and lost to 10th ranked Auburn.

Alabama has blown out their opponents but they also had Kent State and North Texas, two of the statistically worst teams in FBS on their schedule and played an FCS school. Oklahoma State had three out of conference games against UL-L (who beat North Texas by 20), Tulsa and Arizona.

And averaging up the scores of all their wins Alabama has defeated their opponents by a 30 point average. Oklahoma State an average of 25 points per game. A 5 point difference is minimal. That's the difference of beating a team 37-7 and 32-7.

Saints-Tigers
12-04-2011, 12:44 PM
Well, look at it this way, if OK state doesn't get in, at least you can all pretend someone else had a legitimate shot of beating the SEC for a championship. It's going to look bad if they get in and the SEC crushes another team that everyone pandered to get in.

Honestly, we already saw Alabama on their home turf, I'd have more sympathy if they lost by 3 in Baton Rouge, but it's whatever, the whole system is a joke, and I stopped getting worked up over rankings a long time ago.

Halsey
12-04-2011, 12:47 PM
I don't care how many of Alabama's opponent were ranked. They are a better team than Oklahoma State. Again, Alabama killed everyone they played except LSU. It's not Alabama's fault what other teams were ranked.

J-Mike88
12-04-2011, 01:03 PM
When the new BCS rankings come out today the amount of ranked teams LSU will still be 5. Alabama will have defeated 2 (Penn State, Arkansas) and Oklahoma State four.
Great post. And calling Penn State a ranked team is pretty flimsy. They suck.
Compare them to Wisconsin, it was a mismatch.

I love the SEC, but they're overrated this year.
That offense is not championship caliber.

J-Mike88
12-04-2011, 01:05 PM
Well, look at it this way, if OK state doesn't get in, at least you can all pretend someone else had a legitimate shot of beating the SEC for a championship. It's going to look bad if they get in and the SEC crushes another team that everyone pandered to get in.

Honestly, we already saw Alabama on their home turf, I'd have more sympathy if they lost by 3 in Baton Rouge, but it's whatever, the whole system is a joke, and I stopped getting worked up over rankings a long time ago.
That's a fact.
A bad joke, one of the most corrupt jokes in America, and that includes insurance, financial, and politics.

Even some politicians can't stop the BCS BS.

diabsoule
12-04-2011, 01:07 PM
Great post. And calling Penn State a ranked team is pretty flimsy. They suck.
Compare them to Wisconsin, it was a mismatch.

I love the SEC, but they're overrated this year.
That offense is not championship caliber.

The SEC is so top heavy this year. LSU, Bama, Arkansas, UGA, S. Carolina all 10+ win teams. The rest are .500.

The offenses of LSU and Bama aren't pretty but they're effective and relentless. The Pac-12 champion and co-Big East champion weren't able to stop LSU's. Hell, no one really has been able to stop it cold except Alabama. It's all about the defenses and right now LSU is the most complete team in college football with the way they effectively use their four running backs to bludgeon defenses and then their suffocating and turnover making defense to frustrate opposing offense.

It's fun to watch if you're an LSU fan, which I am.

jsagan77
12-04-2011, 01:08 PM
It should be Alabama and I can't see how it's even close. They've killed everyone else they've played and lost to the #1 team in OT even though they dominated the game. Still think we should have a playoff though.

Complex
12-04-2011, 01:10 PM
You're arguing with an LSU fan and an SEC fan. Alabama has beat 4 ranked teams if you just glance at their schedule on ESPN. If you look at the week 13 rankings then it'll show that teams that Oklahoma State has beaten have fallen out of the rankings and teams they had beaten that weren't ranked rose to becoming ranked. Same is true for Alabama.

Right now LSU has defeated 8 ranked opponents but when looking back on the 2011 season are you going to remember Mississippi State, Florida, and Auburn as being ranked opponents? No, you're going to remember them being average teams (two are 6-6, one is 7-5). So looking at it from a ranking perspective of this week, LSU has defeated 5 ranked teams.

When the new BCS rankings come out today the amount of ranked teams LSU will still be 5. Alabama will have defeated 2 (Penn State, Arkansas) and Oklahoma State four.

When Oklahoma State beat Texas A&M earlier this year they were ranked 8th. They finished 6-6. When they beat Baylor they were unranked. Kansas State was 14th. Baylor and KSU will have finished as top 15 teams at the end of the season.

And in 2006, it was hard to tell if Florida was the better team than Michigan. The Wolverine's were undefeated going into the Ohio State and their only regular season loss was the #1 ranked team in the country. As I pointed out earlier, Florida had barely defeated two teams and lost to 10th ranked Auburn.

Alabama has blown out their opponents but they also had Kent State and North Texas, two of the statistically worst teams in FBS on their schedule and played an FCS school. Oklahoma State had three out of conference games against UL-L (who beat North Texas by 20), Tulsa and Arizona.

And averaging up the scores of all their wins Alabama has defeated their opponents by a 30 point average. Oklahoma State an average of 25 points per game. A 5 point difference is minimal. That's the difference of beating a team 37-7 and 32-7.

So losing to #10 ranked team is as bad as losing to Iowa St.?

diabsoule
12-04-2011, 01:14 PM
So losing to #10 ranked team is as bad as losing to Iowa St.?

So Michigan should have re-matched with Ohio State in 2006?

Complex
12-04-2011, 01:27 PM
So Michigan should have re-matched with Ohio State in 2006?

No, because Florida did not lose to a crappy team like Iowa St. so is losing to Auburn as bad losing to Iowa St?

diabsoule
12-04-2011, 01:38 PM
No, because Florida did not lose to a crappy team like Iowa St. so is losing to Auburn as bad losing to Iowa St?

Iowa St. is a 6-6 team on day after a horrible tragedy.

Alabama had their shot against LSU and didn't get it done. Give me something new.

TACKLE
12-04-2011, 01:41 PM
Deserves? A case could certainly be made Oklahoma State. However, does anyone really believe that Bama isn't one of the top two teams in college football?

SickwithIt1010
12-04-2011, 01:41 PM
I believe Bama is the number 2 team in the country but they dont deserve a 2nd chance. They already lost, its time for another team to get theirs. Okie State left no doubt in my mind last night, had they won by a td than maybe I wouldnt feel this way but they should be playing for it.

You CANNOT make a case for being the best team in the country when you arent the best team in your own conference. Its just a ******* joke, it happened with OU and it was a ******* joke then too. Okie State has won their conference...give it to em.

TACKLE
12-04-2011, 01:43 PM
Alabama had their shot against LSU and didn't get it done. Give me something new.

I find it funny that you're petitioning so hard for OSU given that you're an LSU fan.

Complex
12-04-2011, 01:44 PM
Iowa St. is a 6-6 team on day after a horrible tragedy.

Alabama had their shot against LSU and didn't get it done. Give me something new.

I know I might sound like a**hole but I seriously doubt the death of OK St. women's basketball coach affected them in anyway.

diabsoule
12-04-2011, 01:48 PM
I find it funny that you're petitioning so hard for OSU given that you're an LSU fan.

I know I might sound like a**hole but I seriously doubt the death of OK St. women's basketball coach affected them in anyway.

It is is a bit odd than I'm pushing for OSU instead of Bama considering I'm an LSU fan but that's because I believe that conference champions should be favored for a berth in the national championship over non-champs. If there are two teams that have an equal record at the end of the season then the one team that won their conference should be let in over the team that didn't. In this case it also goes against Bama's favor that they had a chance to play LSU already in Tuscaloosa and couldn't get it done. Why should they be rewarded for not winning their conference or division?

TACKLE
12-04-2011, 01:50 PM
Well I'm glad it has nothing to do with the fact that Bama out played LSU last time they played and would of won had it not been for four missed FG's.

JRTPlaya21
12-04-2011, 01:54 PM
Would have been quite funny if LSU had lost would their fans be as opposed to a rematch if it was clearly obvious that they were better then OSU. But I don't blame them. I would want a cakewalk for that title game too especially after watching UGA hold them to no first downs as long as they did.

SickwithIt1010
12-04-2011, 01:59 PM
Well I'm glad it has nothing to do with the fact that Bama out played LSU last time they played and would of won had it not been for four missed FG's.

So Bama deserves to play for it because they woulda won if they didnt choke by missing 4 field goals?

JRTPlaya21
12-04-2011, 02:00 PM
Lol this is all just going to go in circles until the selection show.

diabsoule
12-04-2011, 02:05 PM
Well I'm glad it has nothing to do with the fact that Bama out played LSU last time they played and would of won had it not been for four missed FG's.

In the first half, Alabama definitely outplayed LSU. In the second half and overtime, LSU outplayed Alabama.

It came down to coaching in settling on long field goals when neither of their kickers had been accurate from long distance all season going into the game. Saban should have elected to punt and play for field position.

That's on Saban and therefore Alabama. They lost the game based, in part, on those decisions. The end result still being that Alabama lost at home to LSU.

We can "what-if" all day. Call it a lucky break, call it choking, whatever, Alabama didn't get it done.

sbh15
12-04-2011, 02:07 PM
as a uf fan that benefited from a non-rematch in '06, i say give the cowboys a shot.

Complex
12-04-2011, 02:20 PM
So Bama deserves to play for it because they woulda won if they didnt choke by missing 4 field goals?

And Ok St. deserves it because a women's head coach died that they most likely never even heard of making it harder for them to beat Iowa St.?

JRTPlaya21
12-04-2011, 02:21 PM
Haha so did UF not "benefit" from a rematch in 1996 or are we doing the whole selective memory thing?

sbh15
12-04-2011, 02:22 PM
Haha so did UF not "benefit" from a rematch in 1996 or are we doing the whole selective memory thing?

i'm doing the whole "i was 4 years old in 1996 so i didn't give a ****" thing

SickwithIt1010
12-04-2011, 02:24 PM
And Ok St. deserves it because a women's head coach died that they most likely never even heard of making it harder for them to beat Iowa St.?

Bama isnt the best team in their conference! They have no right to argue they are the best team in the country, plain and simple. Win youre conference first, and THEN argue you deserve the right to play for the big one.

murdamal86
12-04-2011, 02:38 PM
as a uf fan that benefited from a non-rematch in '06, i say give the cowboys a shot.

I ALWAYS tell people this.

Complex
12-04-2011, 02:38 PM
Bama isnt the best team in their conference! They have no right to argue they are the best team in the country, plain and simple. Win youre conference first, and THEN argue you deserve the right to play for the big one.

Bama couldn't win their conference because LSU played in that same conference. If they played in the big 12 or Pac 10 they would of won their conference. Not their fault the other best team in college football is their same conference.

murdamal86
12-04-2011, 02:39 PM
Haha so did UF not "benefit" from a rematch in 1996 or are we doing the whole selective memory thing?

You're better than this

SickwithIt1010
12-04-2011, 02:41 PM
Bama couldn't win their conference because LSU played in that same conference. If they played in the big 12 or Pac 10 they would of won their conference. Not their fault the other best team in college football is their same conference.

Theres no way to prove that they woulda won the Pac or the Big 12 because they dont ******* play there. "If they played here blah blah" you cant play that card...Its ridiculous.

JRTPlaya21
12-04-2011, 02:41 PM
i'm doing the whole "i was 4 years old in 1996 so i didn't give a ****" thing

Lol well played.

JRTPlaya21
12-04-2011, 02:42 PM
You're better than this

Touche. I just don't feel like doing homework and the suspense is agonizing. Whatever happens though I'll be content. Bama & UGA have had solid seasons

Sloopy
12-04-2011, 03:07 PM
To be honest, neither LSU or Alabama played well in the regular season game... it really came down to who shot themselves in the foot less...

Either way... what it comes down to for me is that Alabama stunk it up on their home field against LSU, there is literally NOTHING that would lead me to believe that they would play them better on a neutral field.

Ok State lost to a ****** team, and in most years this would result in them not having a shot; but this year, with the circumstances the way that they are, I have to give it to them.

SolidGold
12-04-2011, 04:28 PM
The coaches polls have Bama at number 2. Can't wait to see what the computers have them at.

Complex
12-04-2011, 04:47 PM
I actually want Ok St. to get in, I don't want Bama to win the championship.

jrdrylie
12-04-2011, 05:04 PM
Jerry Palm is saying it is LSU-Alabama. The Cotton Bowl tweeted that they are the only Big 12-SEC matchup but then they backtracked by saying "they are the only Big 12-SEC matchup not including the BCS." If Oklahoma State gets shafted, they should refuse to by in the Fiesta Bowl. The only way the completely unfair system known as the BCS will ever be abolished is if some team makes a huge statement. Refusing to play in a BCS bowl sure would be a huge statement.

J-Mike88
12-04-2011, 11:17 PM
Jerry Palm is saying it is LSU-Alabama. The Cotton Bowl tweeted that they are the only Big 12-SEC matchup but then they backtracked by saying "they are the only Big 12-SEC matchup not including the BCS." If Oklahoma State gets shafted, they should refuse to by in the Fiesta Bowl. The only way the completely unfair system known as the BCS will ever be abolished is if some team makes a huge statement. Refusing to play in a BCS bowl sure would be a huge statement.
I like the way you think. It would take a huge set of ballz like that to possibly get this corrupt **** to stop one day.

The BCS crooks make politicians look like Mother Theresa.

jayceheathman
12-04-2011, 11:57 PM
I think if it was UT or OU instead of OK State then I bet they pass up Bama. Fan base and money did OSU in. Yeah, they lost to a bad team but they beat over twice as many ranked teams as Bama did.

I dont think Vtech deserves an at large bid either. They played one good team and they lost to them twice.

kalbears13
12-05-2011, 12:08 AM
Awwgeewiz!! I can't wait to see another 9-6 OT shootout...

diabsoule
12-05-2011, 12:11 AM
Something I found amusing: the fans outside of the SEC seem to have the most intelligent counter-arguments and arguments against and for the BCS model

gpngc
12-05-2011, 12:16 AM
The problem with this season is that no one stepped up. The underrated aspect of the BCS is that EVERY WEEK is like a playoff game for National Title contenders.

Okie State has a weak case, but realistically no one to blame but itself. They lost one of those playoff games.

I understand that Bama did also - so they benefited and got lucky... that's the way **** works sometimes...

Alabama got lucky that all the other contenders lost this year, and many at least twice. It happens. I don't think the system is fatally flawed because of it.

But the spirit of the system, from my point of view at least, is to get the two best teams based on season results. As an objective football observer, they got it right...

nepg
12-05-2011, 12:42 AM
Simple as ranking quality wins, strength of schedule, and conference ranking.

Oklahoma State takes all three (dominating Oklahoma > any of 'bamas wins easily, S.O.S isn't close (7th vs 42nd), and winning your conference > finishing second in your DIVISION and watching the championship game from home). 'Bama scheduled cupcakes for non-conf and doesn't deserve a shot with one-loss on that schedule.
It isn't close...but you got it completely backwards.

Arkansas > Oklahoma and Penn State is a million times better than anyone OK State faced in non-con (hell, even IN-con...Penn State was on their way to a Rose Bowl before the diddler case reared its head).

And I'd love to debate Iowa State vs Louisiana State with you.

Iamcanadian
12-05-2011, 12:57 AM
No matter what now, no matter who wins the LSU/Alabama National Championship game, the win will always be tainted by fans outside of the SEC. I know I'll never accept either team as a true National Champion, just a figment of the BCS mess that has gone on for years.
I won't watch the game but I'll be routing for Alabama to win although normally I would have liked LSU to be champion. A Alabama win would be fitting end to this ridiculous thing called the BCS championship.
I hope this really backfires on the BCS and we finally end up with a playoff system which I never thought would see the light of day in my lifetime.

jayceheathman
12-05-2011, 01:13 AM
I agree with Scott on why he is against the rematch. If Bama wins do they split the national championship?

Iamcanadian
12-05-2011, 01:22 AM
I agree with Scott on why he is against the rematch. If Bama wins do they split the national championship?

Even if Alabama wins by 1 point on some kind of fluke, they will be named National Champions. The winner of the BCS National Championship game automatically is the National Champion.

kalbears13
12-05-2011, 01:26 AM
I honestly hope LSU wins 9-6 in OT again so everyone can realize that they just wasted another 3 hours of their life, again.

JHL6719
12-05-2011, 01:51 AM
I agree with Scott on why he is against the rematch. If Bama wins do they split the national championship?


We've answered this question about a dozen times already. The answer is no.

Whoever wins the game gets the crystal football and is BCS champions. Period.

The AP poll can vote LSU #1, but it matters not.

Which would actually be kinda peculiar on LSU's part since they won the 2003 BCS national championship by beating Oklahoma, yet the AP voted USC as the #1 team in the country. Ask LSU fans if they were co-national champs that year...

JHL6719
12-05-2011, 02:00 AM
The truth keeps getting missed by all the people screaming how Okie Light got screwed. The truth is is that OSU beat 4 ranked teams and Alabama beat 3 ranked teams. We all know that Bama's only loss was to #1 LSU by a field goal in overtime, in a game that Bama actually outplayed LSU for 4 quarters.... and OSU's loss was to unranked Iowa St. All this has been discussed for weeks.


What is not being talked about is that Bama's best victory was a 38-14 thrashing of the #6 team in the country who only lost to #1 LSU and #2 Alabama. Okie Light's best victory was a 52-45 win over #8 Kansas St., who was also destroyed 58-17 by then-healthy #14 Oklahoma.

Alabama's best win was better, and Alabama's loss wasn't even close to being as bad as OSU's. Based on Arkansas and OSU's performance against a common opponent in Texas A&M I'd argue that Arkansas would have a great chance to beat Okie Light or anybody else in the Big-12. Kansas St. almost lost to a pathetic Miami team.

Arkansas is a team Bama destroyed and was playing scrubs against for the whole 4th quarter. If someone hates the SEC and/or Bama and doesn't want to see them get a rematch, that's fine... man up and say it. Just stop acting like Alabama got in over a superior team like people are trying to spin it.

I heard arguments all year that the Big-12 was the best conference top to bottom this year, but the BCS rankings seem to contradict all that.... (2) Big-12 teams in the top 10... (4) SEC teams in the top 10...

(5) Big-12 teams in the top 25.... (6) SEC teams in the top 25

descendency
12-05-2011, 02:03 AM
Jerry Palm is saying it is LSU-Alabama. The Cotton Bowl tweeted that they are the only Big 12-SEC matchup but then they backtracked by saying "they are the only Big 12-SEC matchup not including the BCS." If Oklahoma State gets shafted, they should refuse to by in the Fiesta Bowl. The only way the completely unfair system known as the BCS will ever be abolished is if some team makes a huge statement. Refusing to play in a BCS bowl sure would be a huge statement.
You're basically asking young men to get the shaft for everyone else. What do they get out of it? Nothing.

JHL6719
12-05-2011, 02:14 AM
Look at the non-conference schedules of both Bama and OSU:


OSU beat an 8-4 Louisiana-Lafayette team by a score of 61-34.

Beat a 4-8 Arizona team 37-14.

Beat an 8-4 Tulsa team 59-33.


That's a lot of points to be giving up to cupcakes. Those three teams have a combined 20-16 record.


Bama beat a 5-7 Kent St. team 48-7.

Beat a 9-3, #24 ranked Penn St. team 27-11 in Happy Valley.

Beat a 5-7 North Texas team 41-0.

Those teams have a combined 19-17 record. The point differential isn't even close. (+76 for OSU.... +98 for Bama)

Throw in a 10-2 Georgia Southern team that nobody cares about because they're an FCS program, but they're a good football team that's on their way to possibly playing for the FCS national championship. It's the triple option offense that they run that makes them hard to prepare for with only a week to do it for ANY D-1 school.

That offense alone is why teams like Air Force is in a bowl game. It's what allowed Navy to blow out Missouri in a bowl game 2 years ago. It's why Georgia Tech is so hard to prepare for.

TACKLE
12-05-2011, 02:20 AM
You're basically asking young men to get the shaft for everyone else. What do they get out of it? Nothing.

Not to mention cost their program and their conference millions and millions of dollars.

JHL6719
12-05-2011, 02:30 AM
Here's how the coaches voted....

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/college/football/story/2011-final-coaches-ballots/51647436/1

Complex
12-05-2011, 02:53 AM
The Missouri coach said that OK St. was the 4thbest team. Missouri going to the SEC next year right? If so its a big FU to the big 12. Air Force coach had them at number 5.

TitanHope
12-05-2011, 03:45 AM
Even if Alabama wins by 1 point on some kind of fluke, they will be named National Champions. The winner of the BCS National Championship game automatically is the National Champion.

LSU could still have enough ground to stand on to claim one to add to their gameday programs. If they lose closely like Bama did in the regular season, then they'll have split the series 1-1, will have the better record, will have the SEC Conference Championship, and will have played the harder schedule. If the AP, coaches', or Harris poll names them #1, they can still claim a non-BCS backed national championship.

It's lame, and would be horrifically ironic (http://bleacherreport.com/articles/305944-alabama-claims-12-national-championships-reality-claims-otherwise), but possible.

The crystal ball does go to the winner of the game, but it's obvious that programs will do whatever they want. And if Alabama disputed that, then they'd be hypocrites considering their claim of having 13 national championships without having all the backing for those.

wogitalia
12-05-2011, 04:06 AM
I wont even pretend to understand strength of schedule because it just seems like a joke to me, but how does anyone come up with a system that ranks any team that plays in the Big 12 ahead of teams playing in real conferences?

Just seems ridiculous to me that you would continue with a system that could rate the Big 12 ahead of the SEC.

I like Okie State, think it's a cool program but they got to play in the Big 12 and they couldn't run the table, if you play in that conference you better run the table or you don't deserve a shot, especially given that Texas is currently a joke and Oklahoma isn't far behind and the there isn't another team really worth mentioning in the conference.

Personally as someone with nothing vested in any of the teams I think this is the right matchup, you have the two top teams this season both playing in the strongest conference, don't see why they should be punished for having to play each other on top of already having to play in by far the toughest conference and I'm looking forward to them playing again, was one of the better games this season the first time around and look forward to seeing how they adjust to each others defenses.

Ironically, two of my least favourite programs are playing for it but that doesn't change that they are the right programs!

JHL6719
12-05-2011, 07:43 AM
LSU opens as a 1.5 point favorite against Alabama... LSU or Bama would've opened as a 10 point favorite against Okie Light...

http://www.lasvegassun.com/news/2011/dec/04/las-vegas-sports-books-favor-lsu-alabama-over-okla/

JHL6719
12-05-2011, 07:53 AM
The Missouri coach said that OK St. was the 4thbest team. Missouri going to the SEC next year right? If so its a big FU to the big 12. Air Force coach had them at number 5.


What's interesting is that Gene Chizik voted Bama #2. Sounds like even he understands that a team that lost to the players he recruited at Iowa St. doesn't deserve to be playing for a national title.

This whole Oklahoma St. thing was nothing more than a media creation. Stanford has a better claim to #2 than Oklahoma St. does... A loss to Oregon vs. a loss to Iowa St. That's not even close in the realm of reality... but I digress...

jrdrylie
12-05-2011, 08:13 AM
It isn't close...but you got it completely backwards.

Arkansas > Oklahoma and Penn State is a million times better than anyone OK State faced in non-con (hell, even IN-con...Penn State was on their way to a Rose Bowl before the diddler case reared its head).

And I'd love to debate Iowa State vs Louisiana State with you.

You are completely wrong. Oklahoma State had the harder schedule. Let's compare wins. BCS rankings in parenthesis:

(6) Arkansas vs. (8) Kansas State: Advantage Alabama
(21) Penn State vs. (13) Baylor: Advantage OK State
(26) Auburn vs. (16) Oklahoma: Advantage OK State
(43) Mississippi State vs. (24) Texas: Advantage OK State
(44) Florida vs. (25) Missouri: Advantage OK State
(49) Vanderbilt vs. (29) Texas A&M: Advantage OK State
(57) Tennessee vs. (41) Tulsa: Advantage OK State
(94) North Texas vs. (47) Texas Tech: Advantage OK State
(95) Mississippi vs. (63) UL-Lafayette: Advantage OK State
(96) Kent State vs. (71) Arizona: Advantage OK State
(UN) Georgia Southern (72 in Sagarin Rankings) vs. (79) Kansas: Push

So Alabama's best win is slightly better than OK State's best win. And Alabama's loss is better than OK State's. But that doesn't not make up for the fact that Alabama's victories came against teams with an average ranking of 54 (56 if you include Georgia Southern) compared to 38 for OK State.

Edit: I just realized I was looking at 2010 rankings rather than 2011 rankings when talking about Georgia Southern. Sagarin actually has GSU ranked 80th, not 72nd, which makes things look even worse for Alabama.


The truth keeps getting missed by all the people screaming how Okie Light got screwed. The truth is is that OSU beat 4 ranked teams and Alabama beat 3 ranked teams. We all know that Bama's only loss was to #1 LSU by a field goal in overtime, in a game that Bama actually outplayed LSU for 4 quarters.... and OSU's loss was to unranked Iowa St. All this has been discussed for weeks.


What is not being talked about is that Bama's best victory was a 38-14 thrashing of the #6 team in the country who only lost to #1 LSU and #2 Alabama. Okie Light's best victory was a 52-45 win over #8 Kansas St., who was also destroyed 58-17 by then-healthy #14 Oklahoma.

Alabama's best win was better, and Alabama's loss wasn't even close to being as bad as OSU's. Based on Arkansas and OSU's performance against a common opponent in Texas A&M I'd argue that Arkansas would have a great chance to beat Okie Light or anybody else in the Big-12. Kansas St. almost lost to a pathetic Miami team.

Arkansas is a team Bama destroyed and was playing scrubs against for the whole 4th quarter. If someone hates the SEC and/or Bama and doesn't want to see them get a rematch, that's fine... man up and say it. Just stop acting like Alabama got in over a superior team like people are trying to spin it.

I heard arguments all year that the Big-12 was the best conference top to bottom this year, but the BCS rankings seem to contradict all that.... (2) Big-12 teams in the top 10... (4) SEC teams in the top 10...

(5) Big-12 teams in the top 25.... (6) SEC teams in the top 25

Kansas State almost lost to a pathetic Miami team. Okay I'll give you that. Arkansas had to come from behind to beat an average Vanderbilt team and a pathetic Ole Miss team. Arkansas just isn't that good.

And if you look at things objectively, the Iowa State loss isn't as bad as people think. Yes, Iowa State lost six games. But to whom? (24) Texas, (13) Baylor, (25) Missouri, (29) Texas A&M, (16) Oklahoma State, and (8) Kansas State. That is a tough schedule. Iowa State is ranked 32. Let's not try to make it seem like OK State lost to Florida Atlantic. They lost to a team slightly better than Florida. Had Alabama's loss been to Florida, you guys would be screaming "Oh the SEC is so good! Every game is tough." But since it's the Big 12, you brush it off like it's a terrible loss.

JHL6719
12-05-2011, 08:33 AM
You are completely wrong. Oklahoma State had the harder schedule. Let's compare wins. BCS rankings in parenthesis:

(6) Arkansas vs. (8) Kansas State: Advantage Alabama
(21) Penn State vs. (13) Baylor: Advantage OK State
(26) Auburn vs. (16) Oklahoma: Advantage OK State
(43) Mississippi State vs. (24) Texas: Advantage OK State
(44) Florida vs. (25) Missouri: Advantage OK State
(49) Vanderbilt vs. (29) Texas A&M: Advantage OK State
(57) Tennessee vs. (41) Tulsa: Advantage OK State
(94) North Texas vs. (47) Texas Tech: Advantage OK State
(95) Mississippi vs. (63) UL-Lafayette: Advantage OK State
(96) Kent State vs. (71) Arizona: Advantage OK State
(UN) Georgia Southern (72 in Sagarin Rankings) vs. (79) Kansas: Push

So Alabama's best win is slightly better than OK State's best win. And Alabama's loss is better than OK State's. But that doesn't not make up for the fact that Alabama's victories came against teams with an average ranking of 54 (56 if you include Georgia Southern) compared to 38 for OK State.

Edit: I just realized I was looking at 2010 rankings rather than 2011 rankings when talking about Georgia Southern. Sagarin actually has GSU ranked 80th, not 72nd, which makes things look even worse for Alabama.




Kansas State almost lost to a pathetic Miami team. Okay I'll give you that. Arkansas had to come from behind to beat an average Vanderbilt team and a pathetic Ole Miss team. Arkansas just isn't that good.

And if you look at things objectively, the Iowa State loss isn't as bad as people think. Yes, Iowa State lost six games. But to whom? (24) Texas, (13) Baylor, (25) Missouri, (29) Texas A&M, (16) Oklahoma State, and (8) Kansas State. That is a tough schedule. Iowa State is ranked 32. Let's not try to make it seem like OK State lost to Florida Atlantic. They lost to a team slightly better than Florida. Had Alabama's loss been to Florida, you guys would be screaming "Oh the SEC is so good! Every game is tough." But since it's the Big 12, you brush it off like it's a terrible loss.


The media and computers have put together this myth that the Big-12 schedule was tough... it's not. Mainly due to teams like Texas, Texas A&M, etc. being so overrated to begin with. Even Herbstreit said that he thought the SEC schedule was tougher, and the BCS standings support it.

That conference plays ZERO defense, and all they typically do is fall in big OOC games anyway.... especially against the SEC.


If Alabama lost to a 6-6 team, we wouldn't be deserving of a national title shot either. I've never heard of a team playing for a national title after losing to a .500 team.

I've yet to hear Coach Gundy or any Oklahoma St. people take responsibility for the opportunity they blew when all they had to do was beat Iowa St. Instead, all I hear is a bunch of whining about how unfair everything is.

jrdrylie
12-05-2011, 08:34 AM
This whole Oklahoma St. thing was nothing more than a media creation. Stanford has a better claim to #2 than Oklahoma St. does... A loss to Oregon vs. a loss to Iowa St. That's not even close in the realm of reality... but I digress...

Sorry for the double post... but since when does who you lose to become the only measuring stick for how good a team is? Look who Stanford beat:

(30) Notre Dame
(42) Washington
(45) California
(50) UCLA
(71) Arizona
(85) Oregon State
(86) San Jose State
(87) Washington State
(89) Colorado
(98) Duke
USC is unranked but their computer average is 10. Oklahoma State's worst win is better than Stanford's 7th best win. The average ranking of OSU's wins is 25 spots better than Stanford. And Stanford didn't just lose to Oregon. They got blown out of the water at home. OK State lost at home. And nobody has mentioned it yet, but the field goal the Cowboys missed may have actually been good. It went right over the goal post. It was extremely close and may have actually slipped in there. Referees do make mistakes.

jrdrylie
12-05-2011, 08:45 AM
The media and computers have put together this myth that the Big-12 schedule was tough... it's not. Mainly due to teams like Texas, Texas A&M, etc. being so overrated to begin with. Even Herbstreit said that he thought the SEC schedule was tougher, and the BCS standings support it.

That conference plays ZERO defense, and all they typically do is fall in big OOC games anyway.... especially against the SEC.


If Alabama lost to a 6-6 team, we wouldn't be deserving of a national title shot either. I've never heard of a team playing for a national title after losing to a .500 team.

I've yet to hear Coach Gundy or any Oklahoma St. people take responsibility for the opportunity they blew when all they had to do was beat Iowa St. Instead, all I hear is a bunch of whining about how unfair everything is.

Oh since Kirk Herbsteit said the SEC schedule is tougher, it has to be true because Herbstreit is never wrong.

The 3rd best SEC team (Arkansas) almost lost to 7th best Big 12 team (the OVERRATED Texas A&M team). What signature out of conference wins does the SEC have after you take out LSU? Alabama beating the 5th best Big 10 school who has absolutely no offense? Really impressive.

Who cares if the conference plays no defense. The SEC play no offense! Look at the QBs in the SEC. Tyler Wilson is good, I'll give you that. Aaron Murray is above average, but he would be at best the 5th best QB in the Big 12. Tyler Bray is good but he was injured for more than half of the season. No other QB in that conference is going to even sniff a starting job in the NFL. Of course your defenses look great when you are playing horrendous QBs.

JHL6719
12-05-2011, 08:59 AM
Oh since Kirk Herbsteit said the SEC schedule is tougher, it has to be true because Herbstreit is never wrong.

The 3rd best SEC team (Arkansas) almost lost to 7th best Big 12 team (the OVERRATED Texas A&M team). What signature out of conference wins does the SEC have after you take out LSU? Alabama beating the 5th best Big 10 school who has absolutely no offense? Really impressive.

Who cares if the conference plays no defense. The SEC play no offense! Look at the QBs in the SEC. Tyler Wilson is good, I'll give you that. Aaron Murray is above average, but he would be at best the 5th best QB in the Big 12. Tyler Bray is good but he was injured for more than half of the season. No other QB in that conference is going to even sniff a starting job in the NFL. Of course your defenses look great when you are playing horrendous QBs.


The 4th or 5th best team in the SEC (South Carolina) absolutely dismantled the ACC Conference Champion (Clemson) two weeks ago.

The SEC does play offense, there's more to offense than having a stat padding quarterback.... ask Mack Brown and Colt McCoy. Texas had the "#1 rushing D" in the country when they played Bama in the title game.... both Alabama's running backs rushed for over 100 yards against 'em.

Ask Bob Stoops and Sam Bradford.. ask Bob Stoops and Jason White.

Ask Mike Leach and whoever his QB was when Bama's defense held them to 10 points in the Cotton Bowl in 2005... the lowest point total they'd been held to since 2001.

What do all these high flying, high scoring, Big-12 offenses/coaches/QB's have in common? They were all shut down by SEC defenses.

Ask Jim Tressell and Troy Smith. Ask Dennis Erickson and Geno Toretta.

Remember when Oklahoma's offense in 2003 was referred to as the best ever? I do. They scored 14 points on one of the worst Bama teams in the past 50 years (4-9 record)... and needed a fake punt to score 20.

That same offense was held to 14 points by LSU in the national championship game. Go look at the scores they posted against everybody else.

Aaron Murray couldn't even surpass A.J. McCarron's performance against LSU's defense, and he's the biggest stat compiling QB in the SEC along with Tyler Wilson. How'd it workout for Wilson when he faced Bama and LSU's defenses?

I don't 'think'... I KNOW what wins when the moment of truth arrives and it's time to face an elite SEC defense.

They. Will. Be. Shut. Down.

jrdrylie
12-05-2011, 09:05 AM
Okay, so the 5th best SEC team beat the ACC Championship. How does that make the SEC better than the Big 12. Look, Alabama might be the second best team in country. I don't know. What I do know is LSU already beat them. Having LSU play Oklahoma State would show once and for all who the best team is. The rematch doesn't do that. If Alabama somehow beats LSU, at least three teams have a legitimate claim to number one.

JHL6719
12-05-2011, 09:19 AM
Okay, so the 5th best SEC team beat the ACC Championship. How does that make the SEC better than the Big 12. Look, Alabama might be the second best team in country. I don't know. What I do know is LSU already beat them. Having LSU play Oklahoma State would show once and for all who the best team is. The rematch doesn't do that. If Alabama somehow beats LSU, at least three teams have a legitimate claim to number one.


Disagree with that. There's honestly no point in continuing a circular argument with someone who simply doesn't understand the difference in quality between the SEC and the Big-12.

Either LSU or Alabama will be the national champion come January. You can argue amongst yourselves which 4 or 5 teams from other conferences you'd rather have seen get blown out...

We'll do it all again next year.

bucfan12
12-05-2011, 09:34 AM
LSU played the toughest schedule in College football in the toughest conference. They went 13-0. Alabama played them in a 1vs 2 match up where it was a toss up honestly. Lost by 3 to LSU in over time.

Oklahoma State loses to Iowa State? And they think there resume is better than Alabama's? Sure Bama didn't win there conference, but it's not there fault that the top 2 teams in the country play in the same conference. The Big 12 compeition is no where near the level of the SEC. The SEC has produced the National Champion for what, 5 straight years. This will be 6.

I understand no one wants to see a rematch, but we don't want to see a blowout either. Oklahoma State cannot match up with either LSU or ALabama, yet so many think they deserve a shot because they won there conference and we already saw them play? No. Football championships are the top 2 teams playing each other, no matter what.

The BCS committee got this game right, however the Sugar Bowl might be a different story.

jrdrylie
12-05-2011, 09:34 AM
Disagree with that. There's honestly no point in continuing a circular argument with someone who simply doesn't understand the difference in quality between the SEC and the Big-12.

Either LSU or Alabama will be the national champion come January. You can argue amongst yourselves which 4 or 5 teams from other conferences you'd rather have seen get blown out...

We'll do it all again next year.

This isn't a circular argument. It is a legitimate question. If Alabama wins, let's say 14-10. Who would you vote number one? Alabama won the National Championship. LSU won on Alabama's home turf and has a better overall resume. And if Oklahoma State curb stomps Stanford, they have a legitimate claim to be number one as well. LSU-Alabama in no way settles the debate about who is number one. LSU-Oklahoma State absolutely would.

People arguing for Oklahoma State have an argument based in fact. Oklahoma State beat more ranked teams. Oklahoma State beat more teams with winning records. Oklahoma State beat teams with a higher average ranking. People arguing for Alabama are using feelings and thoughts. You think Alabama is better because they are in the SEC. You feel the SEC is the best because it was the best the last few years. Well you know what, the last few years don't mean ****. The last two years, the best etams have been Florida and Auburn and both those teams suck this year. Why? Because what happened the last two years has absolutely no bearing on this season. So you take your thoughts and feelings. I'll take my facts. And my facts say Oklahoma State has a better resume than Alabama and should be playing in the National Championship.

jrdrylie
12-05-2011, 09:41 AM
Oklahoma State loses to Iowa State? And they think there resume is better than Alabama's? Sure Bama didn't win there conference, but it's not there fault that the top 2 teams in the country play in the same conference. The Big 12 compeition is no where near the level of the SEC. The SEC has produced the National Champion for what, 5 straight years. This will be 6.


So Oklahoma State's resume is worse than Alabama's just because of one loss. Even though everything else about OK State's resume is better? Let's make this a real life example.

In college, I worked as a cashier. I ended up graduating from a decent college Magna Cum Laude. I now have three years of experience working in Logistics. Let's say some other guy worked at a bank through college. He graduated with a 2.8 GPA from a slightly worse college and has six months working in Logistics. We both apply for a job in the logistics field. Should he get because comparing the worst aspects of our resume, working at a bank is better than being a cashier? Or should I get the job because outside of one aspect, my resume is substantially better.

JHL6719
12-05-2011, 09:56 AM
This isn't a circular argument. It is a legitimate question. If Alabama wins, let's say 14-10. Who would you vote number one? Alabama won the National Championship. LSU won on Alabama's home turf and has a better overall resume. And if Oklahoma State curb stomps Stanford, they have a legitimate claim to be number one as well. LSU-Alabama in no way settles the debate about who is number one. LSU-Oklahoma State absolutely would.

People arguing for Oklahoma State have an argument based in fact. Oklahoma State beat more ranked teams. Oklahoma State beat more teams with winning records. Oklahoma State beat teams with a higher average ranking. People arguing for Alabama are using feelings and thoughts. You think Alabama is better because they are in the SEC. You feel the SEC is the best because it was the best the last few years. Well you know what, the last few years don't mean ****. The last two years, the best etams have been Florida and Auburn and both those teams suck this year. Why? Because what happened the last two years has absolutely no bearing on this season. So you take your thoughts and feelings. I'll take my facts. And my facts say Oklahoma State has a better resume than Alabama and should be playing in the National Championship.


If Alabama beats LSU 14-10, I'd vote Alabama #1. Okie St. vs. LSU doesn't settle who's the #1 team if LSU blows Okie St. out, and Bama goes on to throttle someone else in a BCS bowl.

Alabama had to beat Florida twice in 1999... once in the regular season and again in the SEC title game. If Florida had beaten Bama in the SEC title game, they would've been the undisputed SEC champs... wouldn't have mattered that Bama beat them in the regular season.

The same logic applies here.


The first things I thought of when Gundy posed the question, "everyone has to decide if they'd rather see a 9-6 game, or a 39-36 game" was the following:

1. I'd rather see a 9-6 game

2. You can't score 30 points on LSU... it'd be more like a 39-6 game.

3. That's not the criteria for the BCS.



I'd like to know when college football became the WWE to some folks. It's about the two best teams playing for the national championship.

It doesn't matter that Nick Saban isn't going to run across the field and hit Les Miles with a folding chair. The bottom line is the two best teams in the country will battle it out for the rights to be the champ.

Oklahoma St. didn't have an argument the instant they lost to a 27 point underdog when they had their own destiny in their hands.

The "facts" are that Alabama and LSU will play in New Orleans in January, and Oklahoma St. will play Stanford for the right to claim who's #2 if LSU wins, or who's #3 if Alabama wins.

jrdrylie
12-05-2011, 10:04 AM
LSU beat Alabama AT ALABAMA!!!!!! They are the better team. We don't need another game to determine this. LSU has not played OK State. If LSU beat OK State, it would be obvious. LSU number one. Alabama number two. I OK State beat LSU, it would be obvious. OK state number one. LSU number 2. Alabama number three.

You just aren't getting this. If Alabama beats LSU by a small margin, how can you say categorically they are number one. Even if Bama won, I think I would still vote LSU number one because they won on the road against Alabama. The BCS is meant to categorically prove who number one is. The rematch will not do this, no matter what the outcome is.

diabsoule
12-05-2011, 10:10 AM
LSU beat Alabama AT ALABAMA!!!!!! They are the better team. We don't need another game to determine this. LSU has not played OK State. If LSU beat OK State, it would be obvious. LSU number one. Alabama number two. I OK State beat LSU, it would be obvious. OK state number one. LSU number 2. Alabama number three.

You just aren't getting this. If Alabama beats LSU by a small margin, how can you say categorically they are number one. Even if Bama won, I think I would still vote LSU number one because they won on the road against Alabama. The BCS is meant to categorically prove who number one is. The rematch will not do this, no matter what the outcome is.

But it's in the National Championship so it counts for more than a regular season game. Duh!

C'mon, man, Alabama plays in the SEC so they are already superior than Oklahoma State, then they didn't lose a game until they played LSU who is their only loss. The fact they lost at home is irrelevant. Oklahoma State lost to Iowa State. I mean, it's Iowa State. They've sucked for years. Oh wait, they're going to a bowl game this year? Well, that's just because there are too many bowl games. Oklahoma State lost to Iowa State! Really? I didn't think they played football at Iowa State.

It's Alabama. Bear Bryant coached there and he's like the best coach ever! Of course they deserve to play in the national championship game vs LSU. It's like the SEC and no one else because no one else can play football. Defense wins championships! The SEC plays defense so the SEC wins championships! High powered offenses are for pussies that can't play defense.

SEC! SEC! SEC!

JHL6719
12-05-2011, 10:17 AM
LSU beat Alabama AT ALABAMA!!!!!! They are the better team. We don't need another game to determine this. LSU has not played OK State. If LSU beat OK State, it would be obvious. LSU number one. Alabama number two. I OK State beat LSU, it would be obvious. OK state number one. LSU number 2. Alabama number three.

You just aren't getting this. If Alabama beats LSU by a small margin, how can you say categorically they are number one. Even if Bama won, I think I would still vote LSU number one because they won on the road against Alabama. The BCS is meant to categorically prove who number one is. The rematch will not do this, no matter what the outcome is.


No it's not. The BCS is mean to get the two best teams playing in the BCS title game. Not the two best conference champions.... Not two undefeated teams, etc.. It's meant to get the two best teams matched up in the title game... which it did.

The BCS is like a cat. You can take it and toss it into the air and do anything else you want with it... but 9 times out of 10 it's going to land on it's feet.

Beating Bama in Alabama has nothing to do with it. The road team typically comes out on top in this rivalry anyway. It doesn't matter if they play in Baton Rouge, Tuscaloosa.... or a parking lot in White Plains, New York... the game is just about going to come down to a field goal every time.

You're right about Okie St. hasn't played LSU yet, and they're not going to because they lost to an unranked team that was a 27 point underdog... that's what you don't get.

I understand any debate that is conjured up as to who the best team is between Alabama and LSU if Bama beats them in the rematch... but it still won't matter when you get right down to the brass tacks of it.

What I don't understand is any debate as to who the two best teams in the country are. It's LSU and it's Alabama rather comfortably.

JHL6719
12-05-2011, 10:24 AM
Furthermore, the Big-12 made their own bed in all this when they opposed the +1 playoff scenario that the SEC proposed in 2008.

Time to lay in it.

Dagagad
12-05-2011, 10:27 AM
http://espn.go.com/ncf/boxscore?gameId=312670277

The boxscore from LSU-WVU. WVU put 530 yards on LSU and they run the same offense as OSU with less talented players. that game was closer than people think too. I think OSU could put up 30 points on LSU.

However I do believe that Bama is the better team. But that is based on the eye test rather than any hard facts from this season. They haven';t really beat anyone I would consider that great. I thought Michigan was the better team in 2006. Florida proved me wrong, OSU is not getting that chance and that is unfair.

jth1331
12-05-2011, 10:30 AM
I hope LSU kills Alabama and its a blowout.
And I hate this whole "Big 12 doesn't play defense".
Offenses in the Big 12 are outstanding, and they rely on rhythm and timing. You take a month off, and yeah they are going to be off.
I mean heck wasn't Florida averaging a **** ton of points in 2008? Oklahoma's "No Defense" held Florida in check.

I think Oklahoma State would be a good matchup with LSU. I'd like to see that more than a rematch of Alabama and LSU.

bucfan12
12-05-2011, 10:34 AM
The two best teams are playing for the National Championships. That is clear. So many people don't want to see a rematch because they believe Bama had there shot.

So what. You can't complain about OKlahoma State when they go out and lose to a below average team in Iowa State. Alabama's only loss came to the number 1 team in the country and it was by 3 points.

Even if Oklahoma State goes out and beats Stanford Comfortably, that still won't change my opinion. Oregon blew Stanford out on Stanfords home turf. Does that make them on the same level as Oklahoma State?


People want a playoff system because of this. How about this: If they did an 8 team playoff, I gurantee you the last two teams left standing for the National Championship game would be BAMA/LSU. They're just above the rest and frankly, it's not very close. Oklahoma State is probably a distant 3 from Bama right now.

bucfan12
12-05-2011, 10:35 AM
I hope LSU kills Alabama and its a blowout.
And I hate this whole "Big 12 doesn't play defense". Offenses in the Big 12 are outstanding, and they rely on rhythm and timing. You take a month off, and yeah they are going to be off.
I mean heck wasn't Florida averaging a **** ton of points in 2008? Oklahoma's "No Defense" held Florida in check.

I think Oklahoma State would be a good matchup with LSU. I'd like to see that more than a rematch of Alabama and LSU.

Texas has the best defense in the Big 12, and Baylor dropped 49 points on them. If the Big 12 "Plays" defense, it's obviously not very good.

jrdrylie
12-05-2011, 10:37 AM
But it's in the National Championship so it counts for more than a regular season game. Duh!

C'mon, man, Alabama plays in the SEC so they are already superior than Oklahoma State, then they didn't lose a game until they played LSU who is their only loss. The fact they lost at home is irrelevant. Oklahoma State lost to Iowa State. I mean, it's Iowa State. They've sucked for years. Oh wait, they're going to a bowl game this year? Well, that's just because there are too many bowl games. Oklahoma State lost to Iowa State! Really? I didn't think they played football at Iowa State.

It's Alabama. Bear Bryant coached there and he's like the best coach ever! Of course they deserve to play in the national championship game vs LSU. It's like the SEC and no one else because no one else can play football. Defense wins championships! The SEC plays defense so the SEC wins championships! High powered offenses are for pussies that can't play defense.

SEC! SEC! SEC!

You sound like 90% of the people in my office this morning. The sad part is they are 100% serious while you are (at least i seriously hope you are) being sarcastic.

No it's not. The BCS is mean to get the two best teams playing in the BCS title game. Not the two best conference champions.... Not two undefeated teams, etc.. It's meant to get the two best teams matched up in the title game... which it did.

The BCS is like a cat. You can take it and toss it into the air and do anything else you want with it... but 9 times out of 10 it's going to land on it's feet.

Beating Bama in Alabama has nothing to do with it. The road team typically comes out on top in this rivalry anyway. It doesn't matter if they play in Baton Rouge, Tuscaloosa.... or a parking lot in White Plains, New York... the game is just about going to come down to a field goal every time.

You're right about Okie St. hasn't played LSU yet, and they're not going to because they lost to an unranked team that was a 27 point underdog... that's what you don't get.

I understand any debate that is conjured up as to who the best team is between Alabama and LSU if Bama beats them in the rematch... but it still won't matter when you get right down to the brass tacks of it.

What I don't understand is any debate as to who the two best teams in the country are. It's LSU and it's Alabama rather comfortably.

No, the BCS is meant to prove who number one is. After Michigan and Nebraska split the National Title, fans were clamoring for this to never have a split national title again. So the NCAA created the BCS. Maybe you are too young to remember the 1997 season. But that is why the BCS was created.

Yes, if you put the top two teams together, you are usually going to prove who the best team is. But that is not what is happening this year. OK State has the tougher schedule, better wins, and more good wins. Alabama plays in the SEC. I say OK State is the better team because they have the better resume. You say Alabama is better because you think they look better just watching them. Well you know what. In 2006, everybody watching the games thought Ohio State was by far the best team in the country. Florida killed them. In 2005, most people thought USC was the better team, but Texas won the game. In 2002, nobody gave Ohio State a chance. Miami was one of the best college teams of all time. Who won that game?

That is why this is so dumb. Nearly every objective fact says Oklahoma State is better. Out of 11 wins, OK State has a 10-1 advantage over Alabama in terms of the opponent's ranking. But Alabama is the number two teams because we subjectively say they look better. That is just wrong.

JHL6719
12-05-2011, 10:39 AM
http://espn.go.com/ncf/boxscore?gameId=312670277

The boxscore from LSU-WVU. WVU put 530 yards on LSU and they run the same offense as OSU with less talented players. that game was closer than people think too. I think OSU could put up 30 points on LSU.

However I do believe that Bama is the better team. But that is based on the eye test rather than any hard facts from this season. They haven';t really beat anyone I would consider that great. I thought Michigan was the better team in 2006. Florida proved me wrong, OSU is not getting that chance and that is unfair.


John Chavis started playing a soft Cover-2 on defense due to being up 3 scores. They were letting WV complete all those underneath throws.

Hell, it took throwing it 65 times to get those yards.

What's going to happen when you throw it time and time again against LSU's defense is exactly what you saw with Oregon and WV... turnovers.

You will not beat LSU throwing it 40+ times. You're playing right into exactly what they want you to do. It's no coincidence that both those games were blowouts.

You've got to be balanced in order to beat LSU or Bama. The problem is that the Big-12/WVU/etc... can't match up at the line of scrimmage in order to be balanced against that caliber of defense.

I'd bet dollars to doughnuts that Okie Light can't score 30 points on LSU... literally.

fear the elf
12-05-2011, 10:39 AM
What I don't understand is any debate as to who the two best teams in the country are. It's LSU and it's Alabama rather comfortably.

Unless there is a playoff of all 1-loss teams, this is conjecture. That's your problem, you aren't basing anything in fact. The only facts you are presenting is that the SEC is historically strong (irrelevant to this year) and that OSU lost to Iowa State.

JRTPlaya21
12-05-2011, 10:45 AM
I wonder if everyone boycotted when the BCS had five unbeatens and only 2 got to play for it? Or how about when Auburn got left out?? Did anyone go on a tyrant when Oregon got left out or when USC did or it just wasn't that serious then.....any other year I'd feel for OSU but not this year. Oh and those teams mentioned earlier I clearly had Texas & Ohio State winning so that worked out well lol.

jrdrylie
12-05-2011, 10:48 AM
The two best teams are playing for the National Championships. That is clear. So many people don't want to see a rematch because they believe Bama had there shot.

So what. You can't complain about OKlahoma State when they go out and lose to a below average team in Iowa State. Alabama's only loss came to the number 1 team in the country and it was by 3 points.

Even if Oklahoma State goes out and beats Stanford Comfortably, that still won't change my opinion. Oregon blew Stanford out on Stanfords home turf. Does that make them on the same level as Oklahoma State?


People want a playoff system because of this. How about this: If they did an 8 team playoff, I gurantee you the last two teams left standing for the National Championship game would be BAMA/LSU. They're just above the rest and frankly, it's not very close. Oklahoma State is probably a distant 3 from Bama right now.

It isn't clear at all that Alabama is number 2. OSU has better wins and more wins against good teams. Iowa State is not a below average team. They are ranked 32 in the BCS. That is better than 8 of the teams Alabama played.

If Oklahoma State loses to Stanford, I will gladly come back and say I was wrong. If SEC blows through the bowl season with a 7-2 record. I'll admit that the SEC, even in their weakest season in a while, is still the best team. But OK State wins by a healthy margin and if the SEC finishes the bowl season 4-5 like I expect, I hope you guys will do the same. Admit that maybe Oklahoma State could have competed with LSU. Admit that maybe, just maybe, top-to-bottom, the SEC isn't the best this season.

But I think this argument has stalled. My facts, statistics, and rankings are not going to convince you because you are dead set in the belief that the SEC is the best. And you saying the SEC is the best because they just pass the eye ball test is not going to convince me because living in the heart of SEC country, I have seen far too many completely inept Florida, Vanderbilt, Auburn, and Tennessee games this year to call that a great conference.

JHL6719
12-05-2011, 10:48 AM
Unless there is a playoff of all 1-loss teams, this is conjecture. That's your problem, you aren't basing anything in fact. The only facts you are presenting is that the SEC is historically strong (irrelevant to this year) and that OSU lost to Iowa State.


FACT: The SEC proposed a +1 playoff in 2008.

FACT: The Big-12 wanted no part of it.



I've yet to hear a damn thing that makes Oklahoma St. a superior team to Alabama.

Time is running out...

JHL6719
12-05-2011, 10:57 AM
It isn't clear at all that Alabama is number 2. OSU has better wins and more wins against good teams. Iowa State is not a below average team. They are ranked 32 in the BCS. That is better than 8 of the teams Alabama played.

If Oklahoma State loses to Stanford, I will gladly come back and say I was wrong. If SEC blows through the bowl season with a 7-2 record. I'll admit that the SEC, even in their weakest season in a while, is still the best team. But OK State wins by a healthy margin and if the SEC finishes the bowl season 4-5 like I expect, I hope you guys will do the same. Admit that maybe Oklahoma State could have competed with LSU. Admit that maybe, just maybe, top-to-bottom, the SEC isn't the best this season.

But I think this argument has stalled. My facts, statistics, and rankings are not going to convince you because you are dead set in the belief that the SEC is the best. And you saying the SEC is the best because they just pass the eye ball test is not going to convince me because living in the heart of SEC country, I have seen far too many completely inept Florida, Vanderbilt, Auburn, and Tennessee games this year to call that a great conference.


When Baylor, Oklahoma St., and Kansas St. are carrying the conference, the Big-12 is WEAK as WATER.

Oklahoma, Texas, and Texas A&M are the 3 bellcows and are all pitiful.

Iowa St.'s 6 wins are against Northern Iowa, Iowa, Texas Tech, Kansas, UCONN, and Oklahoma St.

The SEC is still the strongest conference even when the rest of the conference is slightly down. Hell, 3 of the top 6 teams in the country are in the SAME DIVISION within the SEC.

They've beaten the Pac-10 champ, Big-East Champ, and ACC champ all in blowouts.

Find a clue man, seriously.

jrdrylie
12-05-2011, 11:08 AM
When Baylor, Oklahoma St., and Kansas St. are carrying the conference, the Big-12 is WEAK as WATER.

Oklahoma, Texas, and Texas A&M are the 3 bellcows and are all pitiful.

Iowa St.'s 6 wins are against Northern Iowa, Iowa, Texas Tech, Kansas, UCONN, and Oklahoma St.

The SEC is still the strongest conference even when the rest of the conference is slightly down. Hell, 3 of the top 6 teams in the country are in the SAME DIVISION within the SEC.

They've beaten the Pac-10 champ, Big-East Champ, and ACC champ all in blowouts.

Find a clue man, seriously.

I don't care if their bell cows are sucking. Once again, who was good in previous years has no bearing on this season. FSU used to be the bell cow in the ACC, they suck now. UCLA used to be great. They suck now. It doesn't mean the conference is bad. It just means times have changed.

But like I said. If the SEC dominates in the bowl season, I will gladly come in here and bow at the feet of the almighty SEC.

fear the elf
12-05-2011, 11:12 AM
FACT: The SEC proposed a +1 playoff in 2008.

FACT: The Big-12 wanted no part of it.



I've yet to hear a damn thing that makes Oklahoma St. a superior team to Alabama.

Time is running out...

Fair, but that's not really the question at hand, thus irrelevant. The question is why does Alabama deserve to go the NC game more than OSU? You haven't provided any facts other than "they are obviously one of the two best teams." Others have provided facts that support their claims.

JHL6719
12-05-2011, 11:36 AM
Fair, but that's not really the question at hand, thus irrelevant. The question is why does Alabama deserve to go the NC game more than OSU? You haven't provided any facts other than "they are obviously one of the two best teams." Others have provided facts that support their claims.


I provided plenty of facts. I've compared Bama's best win vs. Okie Light's best win. Bama's was better. I've compared Bama's loss to LSU to Okie Light's loss to Iowa St. They're not comparable at all.

I've compared their OOC schedules. Bama's is better, with a better point differential.

I don't buy the argument that Okie Light's schedule was stronger than Bama's. Alabama was a missed field goal away from beating the #1 team in the country. They outplayed the #1 team in the country, as close as it was.

Arkansas scored 42 points on Texas A&M. Oklahoma St. scored 30 on Texas A&M. Bama blew out Arkansas.

I mean there's tons of "facts" out there.... but if you're not interested in them then you're just not interested. If you don't buy that Alabama is one of the two best teams in the country, then you just don't buy it.

But it ain't because of lack of facts.


I've yet to see a fact that supports Oklahoma St. as one of the two best teams in the country.

The burden of proof isn't on me anyway, Bama is in the title game because of the system that everyone else wanted to play by, including the Big-12...

Saints-Tigers
12-05-2011, 11:40 AM
I like how people are saying "I'll admit the SEC is the best conference when X happens" as if that is in doubt, hahha.

diabsoule
12-05-2011, 11:40 AM
The "outplayed the best team in the country" is arguable. Alabama outplayed LSU in the first half, LSU outplayed Alabama in the 2nd half and overtime. Go back and look at the drive charts.

The major argument here is that Bama had their shot at LSU at Bryant-Denny and didn't get it done. Period. Why not have LSU face a team they have never played before instead of a rematch with a team that has already lost to LSU?

Here's the resume for both Oklahoma State and Alabama with the BCS rankings next to each team (Georgia Southern isn't listed since they're not an FBS school)

Oklahoma State
Beat #8 Kansas State
Beat #12 Baylor
Beat #15 Oklahoma
Beat #24 Texas
Beat #26 Missouri
Beat #29 Texas A&M
Lost to #31 Iowa State
Beat #40 Tulsa
Beat #45 Texas Tech
Beat #63 UL-Lafayette
Beat #71 Arizona
Beat #76 Kansas
Average is 37

Alabama
Lost #1 LSU
Beat #6 Arkansas
Beat #22 Penn State
Beat #25 Auburn
Beat #42 Mississippi State
Beat #43 Florida
Beat #48 Vanderbilt
Beat #56 Tennessee
Beat #92 North Texas
Beat #95 Ole Miss
Beat #96 Kent State
Average is 48

JHL6719
12-05-2011, 11:50 AM
The "outplayed the best team in the country" is arguable. Alabama outplayed LSU in the first half, LSU outplayed Alabama in the 2nd half and overtime. Go back and look at the drive charts.

The major argument here is that Bama had their shot at LSU at Bryant-Denny and didn't get it done. Period. Why not have LSU face a team they have never played before instead of a rematch with a team that has already lost to LSU?


I was there, I don't need to look at the drive charts. But the game turned on a controversial play that resulted in an INT for LSU, and a series of missed field goals. I would agree that LSU outplayed Bama in the 2nd half and in OT. Hell, our offense went backwards in OT when we had 3 points on the board for all intents and purposes.

The answer to your question is simple. The national championship game isn't about having LSU play somebody they haven't played yet.... 110 teams qualify for that. It's about the two best teams playing for a national championship, and Oklahoma St. isn't one of the two best teams in the country.

That's as clear and straight to the point as I can possibly put it.


The bottom line is that both Alabama and Oklahoma St. both lost the right to complain if they ended up being left out when they lost. They had to rely on the system to sort it out, personally I believe it got it right... again.

That's not homer talk either, that's real talk.

jrdrylie
12-05-2011, 11:58 AM
diabsoule, don't bother with those BCS rankings. I have been hammering them for the last 24 hours with no results.

JHL6719
12-05-2011, 12:02 PM
I hope LSU kills Alabama and its a blowout.
And I hate this whole "Big 12 doesn't play defense".
Offenses in the Big 12 are outstanding, and they rely on rhythm and timing. You take a month off, and yeah they are going to be off.
I mean heck wasn't Florida averaging a **** ton of points in 2008? Oklahoma's "No Defense" held Florida in check.

I think Oklahoma State would be a good matchup with LSU. I'd like to see that more than a rematch of Alabama and LSU.



Oklahoma actually used to play defense when Bob Stoops first got there, and had Mike as his coordinator. Defense was Oklahoma's identity, and he won national titles because of it.

Oklahoma started to make losing in BCS games a habit when Mike left, and Bob started to change the identity of his team into a finesse offense.

The Sooners actually still played decent defense the year they played Florida for the national title. They were 19th in scoring D... 17th in rushing D....60th in passing D... and 26th in total D... and it's why they made it to the national championship game.



1993: Alabama - 34
Miami - 13 (Had the Heisman Trophy winner at QB)


2003: LSU - 21
Oklahoma - 14 (Had the Heisman Trophy winner at QB)



2006: Alabama - 13
Texas Tech - 10


2006: Florida - 41
Ohio St. - 14 (Heisman Trophy winner at QB)


2007: LSU - 38
Ohio St. - 24


2008: Florida - 24
Oklahoma - 14 (Had a Heisman Trophy winner at QB)


2009: Alabama - 37
Texas - 21


2010: Auburn - 22
Oregon - 19




Every single one of these teams that lost felt their offenses were "special".

JRTPlaya21
12-05-2011, 12:09 PM
Uhhh when did OSU play Clemson lol

JHL6719
12-05-2011, 12:17 PM
The "outplayed the best team in the country" is arguable. Alabama outplayed LSU in the first half, LSU outplayed Alabama in the 2nd half and overtime. Go back and look at the drive charts.

The major argument here is that Bama had their shot at LSU at Bryant-Denny and didn't get it done. Period. Why not have LSU face a team they have never played before instead of a rematch with a team that has already lost to LSU?

Here's the resume for both Oklahoma State and Alabama with the BCS rankings next to each team (Georgia Southern isn't listed since they're not an FBS school)

Oklahoma State
Beat #8 Kansas State
Beat #12 Baylor
Beat #15 Clemson
Beat #24 Texas
Beat #26 Missouri
Beat #29 Texas A&M
Lost to #31 Iowa State
Beat #40 Tulsa
Beat #45 Texas Tech
Beat #63 UL-Lafayette
Beat #71 Arizona
Beat #76 Kansas
Average is 37

Alabama
Lost #1 LSU
Beat #6 Arkansas
Beat #22 Penn State
Beat #25 Auburn
Beat #42 Mississippi State
Beat #43 Florida
Beat #48 Vanderbilt
Beat #56 Tennessee
Beat #92 North Texas
Beat #95 Ole Miss
Beat #96 Kent State
Average is 48


Okie Light didn't play Clemson.

diabsoule
12-05-2011, 12:21 PM
Uhhh when did OSU play Clemson lol

I accidentally wrote Clemson instead of Oklahoma. That's been fixed.

diabsoule
12-05-2011, 12:23 PM
I was there, I don't need to look at the drive charts. But the game turned on a controversial play that resulted in an INT for LSU, and a series of missed field goals. I would agree that LSU outplayed Bama in the 2nd half and in OT. Hell, our offense went backwards in OT when we had 3 points on the board for all intents and purposes.

The answer to your question is simple. The national championship game isn't about having LSU play somebody they haven't played yet.... 110 teams qualify for that. It's about the two best teams playing for a national championship, and Oklahoma St. isn't one of the two best teams in the country.

That's as clear and straight to the point as I can possibly put it.


The bottom line is that both Alabama and Oklahoma St. both lost the right to complain if they ended up being left out when they lost. They had to rely on the system to sort it out, personally I believe it got it right... again.

That's not homer talk either, that's real talk.

It would have been a controversial call from an Alabama's fan viewpoint but it was clear that Reid intercepted the ball. The replay showed it.

Of course you're saying that the extremely flawed BCS got it right because you're an Alabama fan.

Dagagad
12-05-2011, 12:27 PM
John Chavis started playing a soft Cover-2 on defense due to being up 3 scores. They were letting WV complete all those underneath throws.

Hell, it took throwing it 65 times to get those yards.

What's going to happen when you throw it time and time again against LSU's defense is exactly what you saw with Oregon and WV... turnovers.

You will not beat LSU throwing it 40+ times. You're playing right into exactly what they want you to do. It's no coincidence that both those games were blowouts.

You've got to be balanced in order to beat LSU or Bama. The problem is that the Big-12/WVU/etc... can't match up at the line of scrimmage in order to be balanced against that caliber of defense.

I'd bet dollars to doughnuts that Okie Light can't score 30 points on LSU... literally.

They let WVU score 3 tds and get within 6? The kick return was part of the plan?

Turnovers and ST made that a blow out. Obviously LSU are a much better team but it doesn't take away from WVU having a very effective offense. Its not like those points were scored in garbage time.

Alabama is a 1.5 point dog. If you swapped out their offense with OSU or WVU they wouldn't be.

Offenses don't have to be balanced to be effective. In fact to beat a team with much more talent, it is often optimal to have an unbalanced O and really specialize in passing or running.

SEC teams win because they have more talent on Dline, no more, no less. Its not because of balanced offenses. The long layoff really hurts offensive teams also.

bucfan12
12-05-2011, 12:27 PM
Who they played? Come on. look at the quality of play from both Oklahoma State and Alabama. No way in hell they are similar.

Bama would smash Oklahoma State in the mouth. Oklahoma State would not have ran through the SEC like they did in the Big 12. Gurantee they would have had atleast 2 losses if they played in that conference.

JHL6719
12-05-2011, 12:27 PM
It would have been a controversial call from an Alabama's fan viewpoint but it was clear that Reid intercepted the ball. The replay showed it.

Of course you're saying that the extremely flawed BCS got it right because you're an Alabama fan.


If Alabama had lost to Vanderbilt or Florida, a 6-6 team, a 27 point underdog... I wouldn't feel like the BCS got it right.

I just don't see how Alabama isn't one of the two best teams in the country. I know they are.

If I didn't think they were, I'd say it.

JHL6719
12-05-2011, 12:36 PM
They let WVU score 3 tds and get within 6? The kick return was part of the plan?

Turnovers and ST made that a blow out. Obviously LSU are a much better team but it doesn't take away from WVU having a very effective offense. Its not like those points were scored in garbage time.

Alabama is a 1.5 point dog. If you swapped out their offense with OSU or WVU they wouldn't be.

Offenses don't have to be balanced to be effective. In fact to beat a team with much more talent, it is often optimal to have an unbalanced O and really specialize in passing or running.

SEC teams win because they have more talent on Dline, no more, no less. Its not because of balanced offenses.


Wrong. Balanced offenses are what seperates the elite SEC teams from the good SEC teams. They all have talented defensive lines, but it's the ability to pound the rock between the tackles with stud running backs that seperates them. You can't pick up those ugly, nasty, hard nosed 3-4 yard runs that you absolutely must do in the SEC in order to win with Chris Rainey's, Jeff Demps, and Jeff Scott.... no matter how talented your defensive line is.


Alabama is a 1.5 dog because they have the best defense in the country, and one of the best college football has seen in decades.

If you swap out Bama's defense for Oklahoma St.'s or WVU's, they're a 10+ point dog.... just like Vegas said Oklahoma St. would've been against LSU or Bama.

Dagagad
12-05-2011, 12:45 PM
Wrong. Balanced offenses are what seperates the elite SEC teams from the good SEC teams. They all have talented defensive lines, but it's the ability to pound the rock between the tackles with stud running backs that seperates them. You can't pick up those ugly, nasty, hard nosed 3-4 yard runs that you absolutely must do in the SEC in order to win with Chris Rainey's, Jeff Demps, and Jeff Scott.... no matter how talented your defensive line is.


Alabama is a 1.5 dog because they have the best defense in the country, and one of the best college football has seen in decades.

If you swap out Bama's defense for Oklahoma St.'s or WVU's, they're a 10+ point dog.... just like Vegas said Oklahoma St. would've been against LSU or Bama.

If u give alabama osu's D, they are 30 pt dogs. their offense is bad.

The idea that running between the tackles for hard nosed yards is important is so behind the times that even the NFL is past that bs. Let's look at a hypothetical situation.

Do you think Alabama/LSU would be better or worse with Oregon's offense this year?

btw..i'm not saying that balanced offenses are bad..but it isn't the thing that makes an offense good.

JHL6719
12-05-2011, 12:53 PM
If u give alabama osu's D, they are 30 pt dogs. their offense is bad.

The idea that running between the tackles for hard nosed yards is important is so behind the times that even the NFL is past that bs. Let's look at a hypothetical situation.

Do you think Alabama/LSU would be better or worse with Oregon's offense this year?


How the hell do you think LSU and Alabama are winning? Do you even watch college football?

They're doing it by playing smothering defense and a grinding ground game, and physically whipping teams on both sides of the ball until they've had enough. Mix in with a little play action passing for big plays here and there.

If you can't play dominant defense, and run the ball between the tackles and grind it out in the SEC, you're not going to compete for anything other than a trip to .com bowl somewhere.

You've bought into a myth my friend.

Dagagad
12-05-2011, 12:57 PM
How the hell do you think LSU and Alabama are winning? Do you even watch college football?

They're doing it by playing smothering defense and a grinding ground game, and physically whipping teams on both sides of the ball until they've had enough. Mix in with a little play action passing for big plays here and there.

If you can't play dominant defense, and run the ball between the tackles and grind it out in the SEC, you're not going to compete for anything other than a trip to .com bowl somewhere.

You've bought into a myth my friend.

I believe they have the edge on D and specifically Dline. You didn't answer the question.

jrdrylie
12-05-2011, 01:03 PM
Anybody think there is a way to improve the voting? The computers are supposed to be unbiased, but the people in charge of the computer polls refuse to disclose their formulas. And last year, they found a mistake in the math of the only computer ranking system that is public.

The coaches poll would seem like it would be accurate. I mean these guys should be knowledgeable about good football. But coaches don't have time to watch these games. Their entire Saturday is spent preparing the team, coaching the game, addressing the media, and then going to sleep. Half of them just get some graduate assistant or secretary to fill the thing out.

The Harris Poll is obviously idiotic. One voter had Oklahoma State 6th and Houston, a team with no good wins and a blowout loss on their home turf on the last game of the season, 5th. We can't allow jackasses like this determine who plays for a championship.

The AP is best because it is just a bunch of people paid to watch football. They know their stuff and have the most time available to dedicate to actually watching the game. But unfortunately they decided not to take part in the BCS anymore.

JHL6719
12-05-2011, 01:04 PM
I believe they have the edge on D and specifically Dline. You didn't answer the question.


They'd be worse. You can't play with the best team in the country (LSU) with Oregon's offense and Oregon's defense.

You can't play with LSU with WVU's offense and WVU's defense.

You can't play with LSU with Okie Light's offense and Okie Light's 107th ranked defense.

However, Bama can play with LSU with Bama's defense and Bama's offense.


I'll take the dominant defense over the high flying finesse offense every. single. time.

Dagagad
12-05-2011, 01:07 PM
They'd be worse. You can't play with the best team in the country (LSU) with Oregon's offense and Oregon's defense.

You can't play with LSU with WVU's offense and WVU's defense.

You can't play with LSU with Okie Light's offense and Okie Light's 107th ranked defense.

However, Bama can play with LSU with Bama's defense and Bama's offense.


I'll take the dominant defense over the high flying finesse offense every. single. time.


I think you misunderstand the question. Would u rather have Oregon's offense with Bama/ LSU's defense? Not swapping the whole team.

This is a hypothetical question.

JHL6719
12-05-2011, 01:16 PM
Anybody think there is a way to improve the voting? The computers are supposed to be unbiased, but the people in charge of the computer polls refuse to disclose their formulas. And last year, they found a mistake in the math of the only computer ranking system that is public.

The coaches poll would seem like it would be accurate. I mean these guys should be knowledgeable about good football. But coaches don't have time to watch these games. Their entire Saturday is spent preparing the team, coaching the game, addressing the media, and then going to sleep. Half of them just get some graduate assistant or secretary to fill the thing out.

The Harris Poll is obviously idiotic. One voter had Oklahoma State 6th and Houston, a team with no good wins and a blowout loss on their home turf on the last game of the season, 5th. We can't allow jackasses like this determine who plays for a championship.

The AP is best because it is just a bunch of people paid to watch football. They know their stuff and have the most time available to dedicate to actually watching the game. But unfortunately they decided not to take part in the BCS anymore.


There is no perfect system, if there was they'd already have it in place.

We've already had the AP poll decide and be a factor in who's playing for a championship... people weren't happy with that either.

They wanted to eliminate some of the bias involved with the human element... and face it, you're going to have bias involved with the human element no matter if it's the AP poll, coaches poll, Harris poll, or any other poll where humans are voting.

The computers were put in place to take out some the human element, and factor in more raw data (SOS, etc.). I thought Rece Davis made a great point last night when he talked about how they're looking to fix things retroactively within the BCS.

You have a unique set of circumstances this year where the two best teams in the country just happen to be in the same division within the same conference.

If you're not buying LSU and Alabama as the two best teams in the country this year, I have no idea how they're ever going to come up with something that helps you determine who the two best teams are in the future.

This year is as clear cut as it's been as to who the two best teams are.

JHL6719
12-05-2011, 01:20 PM
I think you misunderstand the question. Would u rather have Oregon's offense with Bama/ LSU's defense? Not swapping the whole team.

This is a hypothetical question.


No, I've watched Bama win too many national championships with a power running game and a game manager at quarterback. I've watched them do it against the best offenses college football had to offer.

The last two national championships Bama has won (2009 and 1992) the quarterback didn't pass for over 50 yards in either. Dominant defense and dominant running game stole the show, and brought home the hardware.

jrdrylie
12-05-2011, 03:04 PM
More complaining about polls. How the hell do 51 Harris voters out of 115 and 36 coaches out of 59 vote Virginia Tech over Clemson. Do they not know that Clemson beat them twice by a combined 61-13? Compare that to the AP where only 10 of the 60 voters put Virgina Tech over Clemson.

We can argue about who the number two team is. We can argue about whether or not Oklahoma State could play with LSU. But you can't argue about if Clemson or Virgina Tech is better. If we learned just one thing this season, it is that Clemson is better than Virginia Tech. There is absolutely no justification to vote Virginia Tech over Clemson.

Dagagad
12-05-2011, 06:51 PM
No, I've watched Bama win too many national championships with a power running game and a game manager at quarterback. I've watched them do it against the best offenses college football had to offer.

The last two national championships Bama has won (2009 and 1992) the quarterback didn't pass for over 50 yards in either. Dominant defense and dominant running game stole the show, and brought home the hardware.

LOL. You'd pick Alabama's 2011 offense over Oregon's. That is some fine homerism.

LSU and Alabama have multiple NFL dlinemen on their rosters. If I had to pick between that and their style of offenses....I think I pick the talent.

The best way to win in college football is by overwhelming talent, especially on Dline (the hardest to recruit) and oline. In the NFL where the talent dispersal is much much more equal, funnily enough, the best teams spread it out and pass. They aren't power running and game managing just because in some fantasy world that equals winning.

wogitalia
12-05-2011, 07:49 PM
So the Okie St supporters are basically relying on the BCS rankings to try and argue that the team they think prove the BCS rankings don't work should be in the NC.

So you think the rankings are wrong yet they are the strongest support for Okie St in the NC?

No one else finds that to be a rather weak arguement? Just to be clear I wouldn't care if Okie St was in the NC, probably would rather watch them because it would give me someone I want to support in the NC, but really the only case that Okie St has is that they haven't got a chance to play LSU, nothing else really supports them being there or at least outweighs Alabama's case.

I also don't think it would be overly close. LSU are a better defensive team than Auburn last year and Oregon were a far better team than Okie St and that game really wasn't very close. The SEC is just a better conference that plays a higher standard of football and it's possibly my least favourite conference but if you can't see that they are better you are watching a different reality to me.

Dagagad
12-05-2011, 08:57 PM
I also don't think it would be overly close. LSU are a better defensive team than Auburn last year and Oregon were a far better team than Okie St and that game really wasn't very close. The SEC is just a better conference that plays a higher standard of football and it's possibly my least favourite conference but if you can't see that they are better you are watching a different reality to me.

I'd agree in general but last year was different. Both auburn and Oregon were offensive teams that stalled in the championship game. The long lay off hurt both of them. Auburn weren't the typical sec national champs.

soybean
12-05-2011, 09:10 PM
Ok I didnt read this thread so I don't know if it has been said already but...

the reason this isn't fair is because... Alabama gets two chances to beat LSU to win the championship while LSU is only allowed 1?

yodabear
12-05-2011, 09:50 PM
ALL OF THIS IS ******* BULL ****! A. Oklahoma State should get their chance. Bama had their shot. They lost! B. BLOW THIS **** UP DOG! This is just another year where this system just does not work. I mean Saban has a vote, he put OK State at 4, Bama at 2. He helped his own damn team get in there. We had people in the Harris Poll put OK State at 6. NUMBER ******* 6 IN THE COUNTRY! Thats ******* ludacris. I know OK State had their chance and lost to Iowa State, but c'mon having a Bama-LSU Ship is like having a Bears-Packers Super Bowl. It just ain't right. Also, as soybean pointed out what if Bama wins? LSU won once already, then Bama wins? 1-1. A world series is not called after two games. Plus, finally, the BCS always ***** the little guy. Boise State never has a chance and thats not fair! I mean Virginia Tech in the BCS. THAT ******* REDICULOUS. **** THE BCS AND GOOD ******* DAY! And in honor of Oklahoma St......

aoMmbUmKN0E

TheRubberDuck45
12-05-2011, 10:08 PM
If you are going to complain about the BCS, for the love of God, don't use the BCS rankings in your argument on why OK State is better than Alabama.

JoeJoeBrown
12-05-2011, 10:31 PM
Defense in the Big12 is absolutely terrible. Texas is the only school ranked in the top 50.

That means the Okie State offense has been playing against the sisters of the poor wrt

Okie State has a terrible defense at 107.

In all likelihood they would be torn up by LSU and Bama. They would score against them, but nowhere near as much as LSU and Bama would score against them.

Stanford will likely beat them soundly.

As a fan, I already saw Bama lose at home to LSU. I don't want to see them lose again. We know that they aren't as good as LSU. Give another team a shot.

This is not a real championship, it's an exhibition game. That is my reasoning behind wanting a non-Bama team. None of these 1 loss teams has earned it fully. There simply isn't enough of a matrix of games across conferences to make a rational decision on this. That's why a playoff is key if we are going to have a true number one team.

yodabear
12-05-2011, 10:42 PM
As a fan, I already saw Bama lose at home to LSU. I don't want to see them lose again. We know that they aren't as good as LSU. Give another team a shot.

And this is basically what I was saying. I just like to rant and curse cuz its more fun.

Complex
12-05-2011, 11:05 PM
What is Ok. St. Strength of Schedule rank? I think someone posted on this site but can't find probably missed it. Anyways VT SOS is 17th so it better be like top 10 or something because their(VT) schedule was weak.

JRTPlaya21
12-05-2011, 11:06 PM
I believe OSU had a SOS of 7.

Complex
12-05-2011, 11:10 PM
Eighth, I just googled it, close enough though. College football was weak this year or I never paid attention to the SOS.

JoeJoeBrown
12-05-2011, 11:17 PM
Eighth, I just googled it, close enough though. College football was weak this year or I never paid attention to the SOS.

Just based on watching games, but CFB was the weakest it's been since the 2007 season.

JRTPlaya21
12-05-2011, 11:21 PM
I found it to be one of the more exciting seasons though. You can never script upsets and close games out of teams you wouldn't expect. It's a shame that the BCS continues to ruin a popular sport but one day they will have a system that nobody can argue about.....I hope.

JoeJoeBrown
12-05-2011, 11:39 PM
I found it to be one of the more exciting seasons though. You can never script upsets and close games out of teams you wouldn't expect. It's a shame that the BCS continues to ruin a popular sport but one day they will have a system that nobody can argue about.....I hope.

I didn't find it that exciting, because there wasn't a huge amount of drama for the number one or number two teams all season. As a Bama fan, there probably was plenty of excitment, as they were fretting up to the end, but for the rest of us, ESPN and CBS have been blatantly selling the rematch since the early part of the season. The hype saturation was achieved very early on.

Then, again, as an Ohio State fan, I am probably just jaded since the rest of CFB was enjoying a year of butt-raping of OSU over Tatgate and in addition the team sucked arse on the field.

With the OSU, Miami, and PSU scandals and now Syracuse basketball, I'm pretty much fed up with college sports until the whole shebang is cleaned up.

Pro football uses the players that went through this terrible system and the league is a hell of a lot cleaner than a sport full of kids that are in the early stages of becoming men.

It's sad that the pros are cleaner than college.

Have some sort of amateur/pro payment system (like the Olympics, players paid from sources outside of official school organizations, be they boosters, agents, or sports apparel companies, etc...), introduce a playoff, eliminate oversigning. Clean it up and professionalize it. Too many shady characters are involved in the sport now and the system encourages that shadiness.

JRTPlaya21
12-05-2011, 11:51 PM
Perfectly summed up my friend. ESPN has basically ruined sports when you think about it. I long for those days of the 90's where they just reported what was going on. Oh well at least I have the luxuries of college hoops to fall back on.

yodabear
12-06-2011, 01:20 AM
Yeah, I am right with u 2 on ESPN and CBS. Quickly with CBS, they are in cahoots with the SEC obviously, so 5 years ago when it was Ohio State the clear #1, then #2 was between Michigan and Florida. The second half of the SEC championship was turned into a put Florida in thing. I know they ended up right and all, but that was rediculous, What got me really furious was that the reason Danielson said was that Michigan didn't win its conference. But this year....it was two SEC schools and it was clear according to them it should be Bama and LSU even tho Bama didn't win their conference.

And yeah ESPN, they are driving this bull crap re-allignment that nearly had a team in Texas playing in the Big East and may have a team from Idaho in the Big East. But the BE and ACC are apparently inferior but everything is inferior next to the SEC.

Lastly, it prolly appears I hate the SEC and that I am one of these SEC haters out there. I am not, the SEC is my favorite conference outside of the Big Ten to watch. I don't deny that the SEC is the best conference. But I think another team should get a chance to prove their conference good in the NC. We've seen the SEC, LSU is the best they have. Lets see them against another team that won their conference, so yeah since Stanford didn't win, that would mean Oklahoma State.

JHL6719
12-06-2011, 07:39 AM
The False Perception of Big 12 greatness:

OSU OOC Opponents:
Unranked La-Lafayette (8-4 Sun Belt, losses include Arizona - see below - , West Ky, Arky State)
Unranked Arizona (4-8 PAC-12)
Unranked Tulsa (8-4 CUSA, losses to ranked teams only, no wins over ranked teams)

KSU OOC Opponents:
FCS Eastern Ky (7-5, KSU won by 3)
Unranked Kent State (5-7 MAC)
Unranked Miami (6-6 ACC)

Baylor OOC Opponents:
#16 TCU (10-2, MWC - won conf)
FCS Stephen F Austin (6-5 Southland)
Unranked Rice (4-8 CUSA)

Oklahoma OOC Opponents:
Unranked Tulsa (See above)
#25 FSU (8-4 ACC)
Unranked Ball State (6-6 MAC)

Missouri OOC Opponents:
Unranked Miami, OH (4-8 MAC)
LOST - Unranked Arizona State (6-6 PAC-12)
FCS Western Illinois (2-9 MVC)

Texas OOC Opponents:
Unranked Rice (4-8 CUSA)
Unranked BYU (9-3 Ind, 1 win over a team with a winning record)
Unranked UCLA (6-7 PAC-12)

Texas A&M OOC Opponents:
Unranked Southern Methodist (7-5 CUSA)
Unranked Idaho (2-10 WAC)
LOSS - #7 Arkansas (10-2 SEC)

Iowa State OOC Opponents:
FCS Northern Iowa (10-2, MVC)
Unranked Iowa (7-5, Big 10)
Unranked Connecticut (6-7 Big East)

Texas Tech OOC Opponents:
FCS Texas State (6-6 1AA Ind)
Unranked New Mexico (1-11 MWC)
Unranked Nevasa (7-5 WAC)

Kansas OOC Opponents:
FCS McNeese State (6-5 Southland)
Unranked Northern Illinois (10-3 MAC, 3 wins over teams with a winning record)
LOSS - Unranked Georgia Tech (8-4 ACC)

That's 2 wins over ranked teams, and only 1 win over a BCS school with a winning record.

How exactly is it decided that the Big 12 is *great* this year when they didn't play anybody?



On a side note, the SEC played 7 ranked opponents this year, going 4-3 against them. LSU beat as many ranked OOC opponents as the entire Big 12.

Alabama played as many or more ranked OOC opponents than any school in the Big 12 - they played more than OSU.

On another side note - All of OSU's wins over ranked foes came at home. They have no decent road victory. Alabama traveled to Happy Valley.

Smooth Criminal
12-06-2011, 07:57 AM
So the Okie St supporters are basically relying on the BCS rankings to try and argue that the team they think prove the BCS rankings don't work should be in the NC.

So you think the rankings are wrong yet they are the strongest support for Okie St in the NC?

No one else finds that to be a rather weak arguement? Just to be clear I wouldn't care if Okie St was in the NC, probably would rather watch them because it would give me someone I want to support in the NC, but really the only case that Okie St has is that they haven't got a chance to play LSU, nothing else really supports them being there or at least outweighs Alabama's case.

I also don't think it would be overly close. LSU are a better defensive team than Auburn last year and Oregon were a far better team than Okie St and that game really wasn't very close. The SEC is just a better conference that plays a higher standard of football and it's possibly my least favourite conference but if you can't see that they are better you are watching a different reality to me.

Ive tried saying that so many times, most people don't seem to get it though.

They use the rankings to argue that OkSt has played a stronger schedule, then argue that the rankings and system are broken and need fixed.

JHL6719
12-06-2011, 08:14 AM
Ive tried saying that so many times, most people don't seem to get it though.

They use the rankings to argue that OkSt has played a stronger schedule, then argue that the rankings and system are broken and need fixed.


Exactly. Listen, I understand the argument that some people would simply rather see the Okie St. vs. LSU matchup for the simple fact that it isn't a rematch. I get that. But it doesn't change the reality of who the two best teams in the country are.


I realize that we'd all love a perfect system that is above reproach and delivers a champion every year with not so much as a slither of daylight left for debate, and makes everyone happy. But the fact is, the system that's currently in place is designed to get the two best teams in the country matched up in the BCS championship game. It doesn't matter if they'd already played or not. It doesn't matter if they're both in the same conference.

Change the system. Change the process. Do whatever it takes.

But the fact is, it'll have to be changed after Bama and LSU have played each other again for all the marbles.

The SEC tried to avoid this very scenario by proposing a +1 playoff, the Big-12 wanted no part of it. These two teams are playing again because it's the system the Big-12 wanted to play by.

Oklahoma St. has almost no argument whatsover to be playing in the national championship game this year, and I'm not even sure which argument against them is even the best. There's several great one's to choose from. Pick one.

jth1331
12-06-2011, 03:28 PM
The False Perception of Big 12 greatness:

OSU OOC Opponents:
Unranked La-Lafayette (8-4 Sun Belt, losses include Arizona - see below - , West Ky, Arky State)
Unranked Arizona (4-8 PAC-12)
Unranked Tulsa (8-4 CUSA, losses to ranked teams only, no wins over ranked teams)

KSU OOC Opponents:
FCS Eastern Ky (7-5, KSU won by 3)
Unranked Kent State (5-7 MAC)
Unranked Miami (6-6 ACC)

Baylor OOC Opponents:
#16 TCU (10-2, MWC - won conf)
FCS Stephen F Austin (6-5 Southland)
Unranked Rice (4-8 CUSA)

Oklahoma OOC Opponents:
Unranked Tulsa (See above)
#25 FSU (8-4 ACC)
Unranked Ball State (6-6 MAC)

Missouri OOC Opponents:
Unranked Miami, OH (4-8 MAC)
LOST - Unranked Arizona State (6-6 PAC-12)
FCS Western Illinois (2-9 MVC)

Texas OOC Opponents:
Unranked Rice (4-8 CUSA)
Unranked BYU (9-3 Ind, 1 win over a team with a winning record)
Unranked UCLA (6-7 PAC-12)

Texas A&M OOC Opponents:
Unranked Southern Methodist (7-5 CUSA)
Unranked Idaho (2-10 WAC)
LOSS - #7 Arkansas (10-2 SEC)

Iowa State OOC Opponents:
FCS Northern Iowa (10-2, MVC)
Unranked Iowa (7-5, Big 10)
Unranked Connecticut (6-7 Big East)

Texas Tech OOC Opponents:
FCS Texas State (6-6 1AA Ind)
Unranked New Mexico (1-11 MWC)
Unranked Nevasa (7-5 WAC)

Kansas OOC Opponents:
FCS McNeese State (6-5 Southland)
Unranked Northern Illinois (10-3 MAC, 3 wins over teams with a winning record)
LOSS - Unranked Georgia Tech (8-4 ACC)

That's 2 wins over ranked teams, and only 1 win over a BCS school with a winning record.

How exactly is it decided that the Big 12 is *great* this year when they didn't play anybody?



On a side note, the SEC played 7 ranked opponents this year, going 4-3 against them. LSU beat as many ranked OOC opponents as the entire Big 12.

Alabama played as many or more ranked OOC opponents than any school in the Big 12 - they played more than OSU.

On another side note - All of OSU's wins over ranked foes came at home. They have no decent road victory. Alabama traveled to Happy Valley.

Give me a freakin break, those are some decent OOC opponents.
Connecticut was in the Fiesta Bowl last year.
Arkansas, Florida State which was once ranked #5, Tulsa who's a solid school, TCU, Arizona/Arizona State usually have decent squads, Miami, Georgia Tech, BYU, Iowa.
Its not like they scheduled all cupcakes. Both conferences had solid OOC opponents. Its just difficult at times because one year a school could be great, for instance Utah, and a team schedules them for 3-4 years down the line, and then by that time they are a 6-6/8-4 unranked team. Heck OU had Alabama when they sucked, Texas had Arkansas when they sucked. I believe OU has Ohio State in the future, but who knows how they will be when they finally play.

Iamcanadian
12-06-2011, 10:53 PM
What worries me more, is that the BCS will use this mess to separate itself from the other BCS Bowls excluding the National Championship game. They will let the Sugar, Orange, Fiesta and Rose Bowl pick their own teams which is defacto what they do today anyways except they are limited to 2 teams from 1 conference. This will allow the conferences to have 3 or more teams named to these Bowl games making a playoff system even further away and solve their problem, with expanded conferences needing more spots for their teams, otherwise why have super conferences if the total # of teams eligible still remains at 2.
The BCS is trying to sell this concept as a better solution for college football but all I see is a round about way to add more conference teams to the major Bowl games so that conference expansion can be justified.
I'm hoping this can of worms causes such an uproar that a real playoff system will be forthcoming and a real national championship will be decided on the field of play and not by an absurd vote.

wogitalia
12-07-2011, 07:01 PM
Connecticut was in the Fiesta Bowl last year.

I'm not sure a playoff really helps, where do you draw the line without basically reducing the regular season to just being regular.

The best thing about college football is that every single game matters and a playoff only diminishes that.

Take this year, where would you draw the line? Top 8 teams? Top 16? I mean no matter where you draw the line you are going to have these problems. Take the Pac12(still sounds stupid) they have 3 top 16 teams but a large part of that is because the rest of the conference is just ridiculously bad so those 3 teams only lose to each other and with the cupcake OOC scheduling by most teams these days that means you have 3 teams that are basically going to be 1 or 2 loss teams.

Then you look at the SEC where you probably have 4-5 teams each year that could win the Pac12 but the 4-5th best of those are probably 4 or 5 loss teams with no real chance of making a playoff even though they may be better teams.

Don't get me wrong, I think a playoff would be better, mostly because I don't believe that teams with 3 losses really deserve to argue like 1 loss teams, but no matter what point you cut it off someone with a chance misses the cut.

There just isn't a perfect system unfortunately.

**** is really going to hit the fan when Bama wins the rematch though, that is going to be fun even the SEC will turn on itself probably.

gpngc
12-07-2011, 07:08 PM
I'm not sure a playoff really helps, where do you draw the line without basically reducing the regular season to just being regular.

The best thing about college football is that every single game matters and a playoff only diminishes that.

Take this year, where would you draw the line? Top 8 teams? Top 16? I mean no matter where you draw the line you are going to have these problems. Take the Pac12(still sounds stupid) they have 3 top 16 teams but a large part of that is because the rest of the conference is just ridiculously bad so those 3 teams only lose to each other and with the cupcake OOC scheduling by most teams these days that means you have 3 teams that are basically going to be 1 or 2 loss teams.

Then you look at the SEC where you probably have 4-5 teams each year that could win the Pac12 but the 4-5th best of those are probably 4 or 5 loss teams with no real chance of making a playoff even though they may be better teams.

Don't get me wrong, I think a playoff would be better, mostly because I don't believe that teams with 3 losses really deserve to argue like 1 loss teams, but no matter what point you cut it off someone with a chance misses the cut.

There just isn't a perfect system unfortunately.

**** is really going to hit the fan when Bama wins the rematch though, that is going to be fun even the SEC will turn on itself probably.

If the 49ers beat the Ravens in the Super Bowl, they are the Super Bowl Champs.

JoeJoeBrown
12-07-2011, 07:40 PM
Then you look at the SEC where you probably have 4-5 teams each year that could win the Pac12 but the 4-5th best of those are probably 4 or 5 loss teams with no real chance of making a playoff even though they may be better teams.

Don't get me wrong, I think a playoff would be better, mostly because I don't believe that teams with 3 losses really deserve to argue like 1 loss teams, but no matter what point you cut it off someone with a chance misses the cut.

There just isn't a perfect system unfortunately.

**** is really going to hit the fan when Bama wins the rematch though, that is going to be fun even the SEC will turn on itself probably.

You are smoking some serious crack if you think 4-5 sec teams could win the Pac12 every year. It's hard to take you seriously after reading that ridiculous statement. The SEC East champ lost to freaking Boise State at home this season.

You need to recalibrate your fitbawl meter.

At the national level, I am not a fan of no defense football, so I understand the lack of Pac-12 respect, but that is just silly.

Statements like yours are why there needs to be a playoff, maybe or maybe not one that takes winners of conferences, but one that is at least 8 strong, preferably 16.

Every other division of college football does this, so I don't see why it's a big deal wrt a time commitment. D3 has a 32 team playoff. D2 is 24. FCS is 20.

Those schools play a few less regular season games, but you just have to go back to an 11 game schedule and all is good.

descendency
12-07-2011, 08:11 PM
The False Perception of Big 12 greatness:

OSU OOC Opponents:
Unranked La-Lafayette (8-4 Sun Belt, losses include Arizona - see below - , West Ky, Arky State)
Unranked Arizona (4-8 PAC-12)
Unranked Tulsa (8-4 CUSA, losses to ranked teams only, no wins over ranked teams)

KSU OOC Opponents:
FCS Eastern Ky (7-5, KSU won by 3)
Unranked Kent State (5-7 MAC)
Unranked Miami (6-6 ACC)

Baylor OOC Opponents:
#16 TCU (10-2, MWC - won conf)
FCS Stephen F Austin (6-5 Southland)
Unranked Rice (4-8 CUSA)

Oklahoma OOC Opponents:
Unranked Tulsa (See above)
#25 FSU (8-4 ACC)
Unranked Ball State (6-6 MAC)

Missouri OOC Opponents:
Unranked Miami, OH (4-8 MAC)
LOST - Unranked Arizona State (6-6 PAC-12)
FCS Western Illinois (2-9 MVC)

Texas OOC Opponents:
Unranked Rice (4-8 CUSA)
Unranked BYU (9-3 Ind, 1 win over a team with a winning record)
Unranked UCLA (6-7 PAC-12)

Texas A&M OOC Opponents:
Unranked Southern Methodist (7-5 CUSA)
Unranked Idaho (2-10 WAC)
LOSS - #7 Arkansas (10-2 SEC)

Iowa State OOC Opponents:
FCS Northern Iowa (10-2, MVC)
Unranked Iowa (7-5, Big 10)
Unranked Connecticut (6-7 Big East)

Texas Tech OOC Opponents:
FCS Texas State (6-6 1AA Ind)
Unranked New Mexico (1-11 MWC)
Unranked Nevasa (7-5 WAC)

Kansas OOC Opponents:
FCS McNeese State (6-5 Southland)
Unranked Northern Illinois (10-3 MAC, 3 wins over teams with a winning record)
LOSS - Unranked Georgia Tech (8-4 ACC)

That's 2 wins over ranked teams, and only 1 win over a BCS school with a winning record.

How exactly is it decided that the Big 12 is *great* this year when they didn't play anybody?



On a side note, the SEC played 7 ranked opponents this year, going 4-3 against them. LSU beat as many ranked OOC opponents as the entire Big 12.

Alabama played as many or more ranked OOC opponents than any school in the Big 12 - they played more than OSU.

On another side note - All of OSU's wins over ranked foes came at home. They have no decent road victory. Alabama traveled to Happy Valley.

If you think that's bad, look at the Big 10 2 years ago (or was it 3?)

JHL6719
12-08-2011, 08:05 AM
You are smoking some serious crack if you think 4-5 sec teams could win the Pac12 every year. It's hard to take you seriously after reading that ridiculous statement. The SEC East champ lost to freaking Boise State at home this season.

You need to recalibrate your fitbawl meter.

At the national level, I am not a fan of no defense football, so I understand the lack of Pac-12 respect, but that is just silly.

Statements like yours are why there needs to be a playoff, maybe or maybe not one that takes winners of conferences, but one that is at least 8 strong, preferably 16.

Every other division of college football does this, so I don't see why it's a big deal wrt a time commitment. D3 has a 32 team playoff. D2 is 24. FCS is 20.

Those schools play a few less regular season games, but you just have to go back to an 11 game schedule and all is good.


Georgia isn't good. They played one of the weakest SEC schedules in the past 50 years. They didn't have to face LSU, Bama, or Arkansas from the West. Their 10-2 record in the SEC was misleading, and LSU showed them why. Hell, South Carolina showed them why.

Michigan St. won their conference last year in a 3 way split. Alabama finished 4th or 5th in the SEC and blew them out 49-7. The only reason it was that close was due to Bama playing 3rd stringers in the second half.

The 5th best team in the SEC this year (South Carolina) completely dismantled the ACC Champion (Clemson).

LSU has already blown out the Pac-10 Champion and Big-East Champion.


The "win your conference" argument is totally irrelevant because all conferences aren't equal, and until all conferences are playing a conference championship game, it's that much more irrelevant.

Winning your conference will never be part of the equation in a playoff format or the BCS for one reason. Notre Dame.

jrdrylie
12-08-2011, 03:44 PM
The common thought is that Oklahoma State plays absolutely no defense. The usual evidence is that they are ranked 107 or whatever in total defense. But they are much better is other aspects of defense.

51st in yards per play- Maybe they give up so many yards because their offense is so good and scores so quickly that their defense is on the field more, thus giving up more yards.

8th in Passing Efficiency Defense, ahead of all SEC teams except Alabama, South Carolina, LSU, and Georgia. What is even more impressive is the fact that 7 of the QBs OSU faced were in the top 50 in efficiency. Alabama faced 2, one being the horrible John Brantley who somehow ranked 41st.

2nd in interceptions and turnover margin. Where does Alabama rank in those categories? 48th and 24th.

Oklahoma State also has more sacks than Alabama.

JoeJoeBrown
12-08-2011, 03:55 PM
The common thought is that Oklahoma State plays absolutely no defense. The usual evidence is that they are ranked 107 or whatever in total defense. But they are much better is other aspects of defense.

51st in yards per play- Maybe they give up so many yards because their offense is so good and scores so quickly that their defense is on the field more, thus giving up more yards.

8th in Passing Efficiency Defense, ahead of all SEC teams except Alabama, South Carolina, LSU, and Georgia. What is even more impressive is the fact that 7 of the QBs OSU faced were in the top 50 in efficiency. Alabama faced 2, one being the horrible John Brantley who somehow ranked 41st.

2nd in interceptions and turnover margin. Where does Alabama rank in those categories? 48th and 24th.

Oklahoma State also has more sacks than Alabama.

Oklahoma State is ranked something like 81 in rush defense. Guess what Alabama and LSU do well?

Trogdor
12-08-2011, 04:08 PM
Oklahoma State is ranked something like 81 in rush defense. Guess what Alabama and LSU do well?

Three and outs and punts?

49erNation85
12-08-2011, 04:14 PM
this rematch is still BULL ShITT . It needs to be another team like OKSU or even Stanford to really put Luck in a test against the SEC. I'm just really bummed about this whole bcs crap this year. I get sec is all powerfull but come on man . We don't need a two team NC title game . Just not right . I was just wondering if this has ever happen in college football before ?

JHL6719
12-08-2011, 04:34 PM
The common thought is that Oklahoma State plays absolutely no defense. The usual evidence is that they are ranked 107 or whatever in total defense. But they are much better is other aspects of defense.

51st in yards per play- Maybe they give up so many yards because their offense is so good and scores so quickly that their defense is on the field more, thus giving up more yards.

8th in Passing Efficiency Defense, ahead of all SEC teams except Alabama, South Carolina, LSU, and Georgia. What is even more impressive is the fact that 7 of the QBs OSU faced were in the top 50 in efficiency. Alabama faced 2, one being the horrible John Brantley who somehow ranked 41st.

2nd in interceptions and turnover margin. Where does Alabama rank in those categories? 48th and 24th.

Oklahoma State also has more sacks than Alabama.



Okie Light gives up so many yards because their defense can't get off the field. They're 70th in allowing opponents to convert 3rd downs.

Texas A&M has more sacks than LSU... which defense would you rather face? Texas A&M has one of the worst defenses in the country.

Watch how many points Okie Light's offense scores while they're standing on the sideline watching Stanford pound the rock down their defenses throat.

JHL6719
12-08-2011, 04:35 PM
Force Three and outs and punts?


*Edited for Accuracy*

JHL6719
12-08-2011, 04:37 PM
this rematch is still BULL ShITT . It needs to be another team like OKSU or even Stanford to really put Luck in a test against the SEC. I'm just really bummed about this whole bcs crap this year. I get sec is all powerfull but come on man . We don't need a two team NC title game . Just not right . I was just wondering if this has ever happen in college football before ?


What? A rematch?

JHL6719
01-10-2012, 07:46 AM
You are completely wrong. Oklahoma State had the harder schedule. Let's compare wins. BCS rankings in parenthesis:

(6) Arkansas vs. (8) Kansas State: Advantage Alabama
(21) Penn State vs. (13) Baylor: Advantage OK State
(26) Auburn vs. (16) Oklahoma: Advantage OK State
(43) Mississippi State vs. (24) Texas: Advantage OK State
(44) Florida vs. (25) Missouri: Advantage OK State
(49) Vanderbilt vs. (29) Texas A&M: Advantage OK State
(57) Tennessee vs. (41) Tulsa: Advantage OK State
(94) North Texas vs. (47) Texas Tech: Advantage OK State
(95) Mississippi vs. (63) UL-Lafayette: Advantage OK State
(96) Kent State vs. (71) Arizona: Advantage OK State
(UN) Georgia Southern (72 in Sagarin Rankings) vs. (79) Kansas: Push

So Alabama's best win is slightly better than OK State's best win. And Alabama's loss is better than OK State's. But that doesn't not make up for the fact that Alabama's victories came against teams with an average ranking of 54 (56 if you include Georgia Southern) compared to 38 for OK State.

Edit: I just realized I was looking at 2010 rankings rather than 2011 rankings when talking about Georgia Southern. Sagarin actually has GSU ranked 80th, not 72nd, which makes things look even worse for Alabama.




Kansas State almost lost to a pathetic Miami team. Okay I'll give you that. Arkansas had to come from behind to beat an average Vanderbilt team and a pathetic Ole Miss team. Arkansas just isn't that good.

And if you look at things objectively, the Iowa State loss isn't as bad as people think. Yes, Iowa State lost six games. But to whom? (24) Texas, (13) Baylor, (25) Missouri, (29) Texas A&M, (16) Oklahoma State, and (8) Kansas State. That is a tough schedule. Iowa State is ranked 32. Let's not try to make it seem like OK State lost to Florida Atlantic. They lost to a team slightly better than Florida. Had Alabama's loss been to Florida, you guys would be screaming "Oh the SEC is so good! Every game is tough." But since it's the Big 12, you brush it off like it's a terrible loss.


They're better than Kansas St.

JHL6719
01-10-2012, 07:53 AM
LSU beat Alabama AT ALABAMA!!!!!! They are the better team. We don't need another game to determine this. LSU has not played OK State. If LSU beat OK State, it would be obvious. LSU number one. Alabama number two. I OK State beat LSU, it would be obvious. OK state number one. LSU number 2. Alabama number three.

You just aren't getting this. If Alabama beats LSU by a small margin, how can you say categorically they are number one. Even if Bama won, I think I would still vote LSU number one because they won on the road against Alabama. The BCS is meant to categorically prove who number one is. The rematch will not do this, no matter what the outcome is.



Obviously.


Furthermore, Oklahoma St. should've lost to Stanford if the little freshman kicker simply makes a chip shot field goal.

JHL6719
01-10-2012, 08:02 AM
It isn't clear at all that Alabama is number 2. OSU has better wins and more wins against good teams. Iowa State is not a below average team. They are ranked 32 in the BCS. That is better than 8 of the teams Alabama played.

If Oklahoma State loses to Stanford, I will gladly come back and say I was wrong. If SEC blows through the bowl season with a 7-2 record. I'll admit that the SEC, even in their weakest season in a while, is still the best team. But OK State wins by a healthy margin and if the SEC finishes the bowl season 4-5 like I expect, I hope you guys will do the same. Admit that maybe Oklahoma State could have competed with LSU. Admit that maybe, just maybe, top-to-bottom, the SEC isn't the best this season.

But I think this argument has stalled. My facts, statistics, and rankings are not going to convince you because you are dead set in the belief that the SEC is the best. And you saying the SEC is the best because they just pass the eye ball test is not going to convince me because living in the heart of SEC country, I have seen far too many completely inept Florida, Vanderbilt, Auburn, and Tennessee games this year to call that a great conference.



Oklahoma St. should have lost to Stanford.


The SEC went 5-2 during bowl games against other conferences. Only Georgia and Vanderbilt lost (and very easily could've won both games).

Bama and LSU obviously cancel each other out since they were playing each other.

The Big-12 went 0-1 against the SEC in bowl games.

JHL6719
01-10-2012, 08:06 AM
I don't care if their bell cows are sucking. Once again, who was good in previous years has no bearing on this season. FSU used to be the bell cow in the ACC, they suck now. UCLA used to be great. They suck now. It doesn't mean the conference is bad. It just means times have changed.

But like I said. If the SEC dominates in the bowl season, I will gladly come in here and bow at the feet of the almighty SEC.


Get your nose away from the almighty feet.