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BeerBaron
12-05-2011, 09:26 AM
That time of the week again and the only thing I actually enjoy doing on Mondays.

For this edition, I've provided some music for you to listen to as you read and inevitably disagree. (Under the Spoiler to save space.)


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1.) NFC Wildcard Mess
The top 5 wildcard contenders were 0-5 yesterday. Gyahh....what a mess. It's hard to even pick a place to begin, so I'll just go in ABC order.

1a.)Atlanta Falcons - Losing at home to a team on it's 3rd string QB isn't a good sign, but if the Falcons can play Falcon football come January, they could be a tough out in the playoffs. They have to actually get to the games in January first though, and they're not helping their cause right now.

1b.) Chicago Bears - FML. We've now caught the injuriezz bug in the offensive backfield. We're back to the days where our best chance to score is on Special Teams and Defense. Not good. I'd say that we're completely screwed, but the sad part is we're not. We definitely have the worst chance out of these 5 teams, but that isn't saying much.

1c.) Dallas Cowboys - Icing your own kicker? Why not let the clock run all the way down and take the timeout before even sending your unit on the field? I still don't understand this one...luckily (or perhaps unluckily) they still have the Giants twice. Those two games will decide this division.

1d.) Detroit Lions - I think they could easily be the most dangerous wildcard contender, but the penalties...so many penalties. And the personal fouls are the worst. This team is as hot-headed and impulsive as they come. They could easily have been in, and perhaps even won, the games against the Packers and Saints if they didn't get so many penalties. There's shooting yourself in the foot and there's unloading the entire clip into your thigh. The Lions are doing the latter.

1e.) NY Giants - I'll give them credit for playing the Packers damn tough, but there's no such thing as a good loss, especially for a team with collapse issues. They can still come away with the division by beating the Cowboys twice, but that is easier said than done.

The best thing for each of the non-NFC East teams would be for the Giants or Cowboys to sweep the series with the other. The winner will take the division while the loser may be pushed out of wildcard contention altogether.

On a side note, who else is looking forward to seeing Jason Garrett call TE Screens against Perry Fewell's 3-man rush zones? Talk about some awful, awful football there...groan.

2.) Hot Seat Watch
I think we're going to see a lot of turnover this offseason. Due to the lockout last offseason, many teams chose to stick with the status quo instead of going with new coaches trying to implement new schemes under an abbreviated offseason. This year however, I expect to see a whole slew of firings. Here are some possibilities:

Norv Turner - Hot seat turned up to 11
Anything short of winning every remaining game by 50 points will make his firing official. Great coordinator, but completely lackluster head coach.

Andy Reid - Simmering and starting to boil over
I contend that I think he'll resign. One condition for him to stay would absolutely require him firing Juan Castillo, a long time friend. I'm not sure Reid does that. I think he'll save the Philly front office some headaches by simply resigning and taking a year off. He is never going to take this Philly team to the promised land. This year was his best shot and they've failed spectacularly.

Tom Coughlin - Heating through the coordinators
Just squeaking into the playoffs or missing them entirely for the 2nd straight year would be enough to get Coughlin canned. The years of bad coordinator hires and collapses are going to overtake the fact that he has a ring soon enough. Plus, with Cowher on the side just waiting for this opening, I can't see the Giants making him wait much longer. (Giants fans may not like this, but tough luck.)

Steve Spagnulo - Hot seat up to 10 1/2
Speaking of the Giants, this former Giant is probably done. You can toss out the "but the injuriezz!" card all you want, this team is absolutely miserable. It'd be one thing if they were losing some close games, but they're getting blown the **** out. Yesterday, they never advanced the ball further than the 35 yard line. Much like Norv Turner, he should be a hot coordinator candidate, but his head coaching days are numbered with the Rams.

Mike Shanahan - Could toast a marshmellow
No coach other than Joe Gibbs has lasted more than 2 seasons under Dan Snyder. Keep that in mind. Additionally, the decision to move into this season with Rexy and John Beck at QB was a move any reasonable football fan could have predicted failure for. I could see him getting a 3rd season, but the heat will be up immensely if he fails again next year.

Raheem Morris - The burner is turning red
Expectations were perhaps too high for the Bucs this year, but they've been far worse than they should be. In a division with the Saints and Falcons already at the top and the Panthers on the rise, the Bucs will need to do something drastic to stay out of the basement. Morris will also be a lame duck coach with his contact up after 2012. Most teams don't move forward with lame duck coaches.

Tony Sparano - Well done, starting to burn around the edges
The Dolphins are suddenly playing well, but Sparano is done. I'd be shocked, absolutely shocked, for them to retain him another year.

Jim Caldwell - Burnt to a crisp
He'll be scapegoated in an attempt for the Polians to remain in power. You all know my feelings there. Caldwell is a goner.

Todd Haley - Could keep you warm on a winter's day
There's a chance he slips through since he made the playoffs last year and lost several of his best players this year. Injuriezz is not typically an excuse for coaches though. 50/50 I think.

3.) QBs I Don't Like Update
Tebow - Meh. These close wins are playing with fire. They'll get burned by teams who aren't 2-9 in them soon enough. I can't imagine the Ravens or Steelers putting up with his shenanigans for 10 seconds in the playoffs. I've come to terms with the fact that I'll have to deal with him this year. Not a long term solution.

Carson Palmer - Two garbage time TDs padded his stats a bit yesterday, but he's not leading the Raiders anywhere. I just shake my head at the thought of what was given up for this guy. Do they have more wins than Kyle Boller would have gotten them? Sure. Is that worth a first and second round pick? No.

Blaine Gabbert - The only reason to watch tonight's game. The Chargers completely suck, but a random group of 11 guys from this board would make Gabbert pants-wettingly terrible. Watch and see.

4.) Illegal Contact Should Not be an Automatic First Down
The damn Polian rule. You all know my thoughts on that already. But it's incredibly wrong for illegal contact to be an automatic first down. It should ONLY be a 5 yard penalty, akin to a false start or offsides. The fact that the defense bumping a guy 6 or 7 yards downfield completely away from the play could give the other team a first down is nonsense. It cost the Giants yesterday, has hurt teams in the past, and will continue to wreak havoc for as long as the rule stands. It's stupid and unnecessary, and a major overkill for all the more of an infraction it is. Get rid of it.

5.) The Bengals Should Not have Benched Andy Dalton
(If they did it because he got banged up, then ignore this section. All I know is Gradkowski got in at the end of the game.)

You have a rookie QB who has played phenomenally the rest of the year and your team still has a legitimate shot at a wildcard spot. So let's kick that rookie's confidence square in the balls by benching him!

So what that they game was out of hand? Gradkowski wasn't bringing you back either. I don't care if the team or the benched QB says it's no big deal...it is. Imagine if you were doing well at your job then, one day, you have a bad day and your boss replaces you. It'll still be your job tomorrow, but try and tell me that wouldn't sting.

At this point, I'll normally make a point to say something like "if the guy's confidence is that fragile, he shouldn't be an NFL QB." And while I do believe that in most cases, this is one where I don't. Dalton has been playing well and you bench him for one bad game against a defense notorious for killing rookies. The Bengals bungled this one.

6.) The Packers Aren't Losing in the Regular Season
Looking at the games they have left, and looking at the fact that they seem to be playing to go undefeated, I can't see them losing in the regular season. 16-0 for them, hurray for them I guess.

There's still a shot of an upset in the playoffs though. It won't be easy for a team to go into Lambeau and beat them, but it's not impossible. The Giants and even the Bucs have given us the recopies. Slow them down just a little with your defense. Even if that means holding them to just FGs when you can.

Then, keep the pedal to the metal on offense. The Packers defense is good at forcing turnovers, but they can be drug up and down the field.

Like I said, it absolutely won't be easy, but it's possible. The 49ers have a great red zone defense which could stifle the Packers a bit and hold them to some FGs. Rematches with the Giants and Saints could also end in high scoring, shootout wins for those teams. Not easy, but not impossible.

7.) A Couple of Side Notes
Just brief additions to things I touched earlier:

*I pray the Bears do not sign McNabb. Hanie sucks, but a fat, lacking accuracy, no experience in the system McNabb would be worse. We can't protect him, he'd have no on worthwhile to throw to and no one to hand off to. He'd be a waste of time and money. If the Bears want to hand a veteran minimum deal to someone who can come in and be terrible, I'll take the job.

*If the Redskins keep Shanahan, they should just go all in and trade for Peyton. It took a first and second for the Raiders to get Carson Palmer, and assuming he's healthy, Peyton is waaaay better than Palmer. Go all in and see if Peyton can take you to the top of a very gilded division.

8.) And a Patriots note...
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/12/05/patriots-start-three-new-defenders-including-a-wide-receiver/

Starting at safety against Indy: Nathan Jones and Matthew Slater. Jones was signed last week. Slater is a wide receiver and special teams player.

Only the Patriots...


That's all I have for this week. If I think of more, I'll add it in. Feel free to discuss.

jth1331
12-05-2011, 10:09 AM
I freakin hate most defensive penalties result in the automatic 1st down. Its 3rd and 20 and you pass interference after 7 yards, first down.
Defensive holding, 1st down.
Illegal contact, 1st down.

No, stop that horse **** now. Also, I'd like to see defensive pass interference changed. Instead of spot foul, 15 yards. But that will just let defenders tackle a WR flying by them and only give up 15 yards! Well, its still 15 freakin yards you get and from what I see, most DB's won't do that.

BeerBaron
12-05-2011, 10:13 AM
I would keep DPI as a spot foul. It should be that way in college too. Otherwise, I'd do as you say and just instruct my DBs to tackle to the receiver if they're otherwise beat. You'd be penalized 15 but live to fight another down.

Illegal contact and defensive holding should be 5 yard penalties akin to offsides. No automatic first down but a free play for the offense basically. I'd have no issue with that.

TimmG6376
12-05-2011, 10:14 AM
4.) Illegal Contact Should Not be an Automatic First Down
The damn Polian rule. You all know my thoughts on that already. But it's incredibly wrong for illegal contact to be an automatic first down. It should ONLY be a 5 yard penalty, akin to a false start or offsides. The fact that the defense bumping a guy 6 or 7 yards downfield completely away from the play could give the other team a first down is nonsense. It cost the Giants yesterday, has hurt teams in the past, and will continue to wreak havoc for as long as the rule stands. It's stupid and unnecessary, and a major overkill for all the more of an infraction it is. Get rid of it.


I like this one. It should still be a penalty but 5 yards and repeat the down is enough. I'd almost say the same for defensive holding except 10 yards. A 10 yard penalty would be first down in many cases anyway but at least it wouldn't bail out a team facing 3rd and forever.

TimmG6376
12-05-2011, 10:21 AM
I would keep DPI as a spot foul. It should be that way in college too. Otherwise, I'd do as you say and just instruct my DBs to tackle to the receiver if they're otherwise beat. You'd be penalized 15 but live to fight another down.

Illegal contact and defensive holding should be 5 yard penalties akin to offsides. No automatic first down but a free play for the offense basically. I'd have no issue with that.

If offensive holding is 10 then defensive holding should still be 10. IMO.

jrdrylie
12-05-2011, 10:24 AM
1. The NFC wild card teams are in such disarray, the Seahawks have a chance to make the playoffs. I can't believe this.

3. I like Tebow. Not as a player. But as a fellow Jacksonville native who cheers for Florida over most teams. I don't know how he does it, but he wins. This was the argument I made in the preseason. When most were saying Kyle Orton should be the starter, I said it should be Tebow. Not becuase he is a better QB. But because Kyle Orton is a loser and Tebow is a winner.

But they get the Bears next week. Surely future Hall of Fame players Brian Urlacher and Julius Peppers and borderline Hall of Famer Lance Briggs won't allow Tebow to work his magic. I will never pick against the Bears. I don't care if they are playing their third stringers against the Packers, I'm picking the Bears. But I seriously think they lose this week. I think we can hold the Broncos to 10 or 14 points. But can we score 15? Unless we do it with a punt return and a pick-six, I just don't think we can.

4. It absolutely should not be an automatic first down. In the Green Bay-New York game, Finley basically ran into the Giants linebacker. The backer extended his arms a little bit. It in no way altered what Finley was doing. Hell, Rodgers wasn't even looking Finley's way. But they get an automatic first down? Ridiculous.

5. I don't know why they sat Andy Dalton. I didn't watch the game. but I do know the game was not in question. I'm in the camp that you sit your QB if the game gets out of hand. You don't want for QB of the Future to tear an ACL. If they benched him for that reason, I'm cool with it. If they benched him to see if Gradkowski could give them a spark, I don't like it.

6. I do think the Bears have a chance to beat the Packers. but it hinges on two things. Cutler and Forte coming back from their injuries early. Can you imagine how hyped that team will be. They are getting their best offensive playmaker and their franchise QB back for a game against their biggest rival and you have the chance to give them their only loss. If either of them are still out, we lose. But if both of them miraculously come back, we have a chance.

7. Manning and Luck WILL NOT be on the same team next year. If the Polians come back, I think they draft Luck and then trade him for a ton of picks. If the Colts bring in a new front office, they pick Luck and move Manning. And Washington should absolutely trade a 2012 and 2013 first and a 2012 3rd for Manning.

BeerBaron
12-05-2011, 10:29 AM
If we had a healthy Cutler and Forte along with the way our defense has been playing (held Oakland to mostly FGs despite being put in terrible spots and holding KC to one hail mary TD) I think we'd stomp the ever loving jesus out of the Broncos like the Lions did.

But we have no offense. Like I said, our best bet to score now seems to be on Defense and Special Teams. Reminds me of the days of Craig Krenzel and rookie Kyle Orton...ugh.

And even if we get Cutler and Forte back ahead of schedule for the Packers game, there will be the rust factor in spades. I can't possibly see us winning that game without a few miracles.

JBCX
12-05-2011, 10:31 AM
Tim Tebow has the potential to score 25+ points against this overrated Chicago defense. I'll be eagerly anticipating this game. I think Tebow is in store for a monster game, both running and passing.

Pat Sims 90
12-05-2011, 10:31 AM
I disagree with the Benching of Andy Dalton. The Game was over at that point he was getting thrown around like a rag doll the Bengals OL could not stop Pittsburgh DL. The Bengals did the right thing by benching him and preventing further injury. Nothing has rattled Andy Dalton so far this year and i doubt this has much effect on him. Andy Dalton was also benched in the 1st game of the season against the Browns due to injury and it had no effect on him.

BeerBaron
12-05-2011, 10:33 AM
I disagree with the Benching of Andy Dalton. The Game was over at that point he was getting thrown around like a rag doll the Bengals OL could not stop Pittsburgh DL. The Bengals did the right thing by benching him and preventing further injury.

As I said, if he was banged up, I understand. But all I caught was Gradkowski on the field late and thought the Bengals may have pulled a Gabbert-for-McCown type move.

That's just not something you do to a rookie who has othewise been playing quite well.

NY+Giants=NYG
12-05-2011, 10:34 AM
Fewell is going to get Coughlin fired! Stupid coordinators! But that's Tom's fault for messing up his coordinator choices regularly.

fenikz
12-05-2011, 10:35 AM
opinion on the cardinals going forward?

BeerBaron
12-05-2011, 10:40 AM
opinion on the cardinals going forward?

I didn't put Whisenhunt on my hot seat list, though it's a little luke-warm. He'll get another year.

I'm still not a fan of Kolb, I think you know this.

Defensively, they're improving.

I haven't watched much of them this year. I have a hard time believe they'll compete with San Fran for the division even next year though. And the o-line still needs significant work.

brat316
12-05-2011, 10:45 AM
If Manning were to sign in the NFC West he would dominate easily, maybe sign on with the Seahawks.

Also Jason Campbell is a FA, what if the Raiders could have gotten Manning instead of Plamer for the same amount. Tebow vs Manning amazing.


But where would he really be traded? I'm sure he would want go to a team that has a chance for playoffs. Other than Redskins, options left would be Chiefs, Phins, Seahawks, JAGS. Would say the Eagles FO, trade Vick and a pick for Manning?

fenikz
12-05-2011, 10:45 AM
ya don't think winning 4 of 5 is hot seat worthy, hooray NFC East & the Rams

vidae
12-05-2011, 10:46 AM
Give some love to the Chiefs defense!

BeerBaron
12-05-2011, 10:48 AM
The teams who would trade for Manning AND that Manning would want to play for are pretty limited.

He's not going to go to a bad team. They have to have playoff caliber talent on the roster to begin with.

The top possibilities are the Redskins and possibly Seattle. Neither is ideal, but very few teams are ONLY a QB away from contending. The Seahawks have some decent offensive pieces and the Redskins have a pretty good defense to work with. Manning would immediately make either of those teams a division contender at least.

Give some love to the Chiefs defense!

You and I could have been the Chiefs safeties yesterday and stopped the Hanie/Barber show. That was disgusting.

jrdrylie
12-05-2011, 11:02 AM
The teams who would trade for Manning AND that Manning would want to play for are pretty limited.

He's not going to go to a bad team. They have to have playoff caliber talent on the roster to begin with.

The top possibilities are the Redskins and possibly Seattle. Neither is ideal, but very few teams are ONLY a QB away from contending. The Seahawks have some decent offensive pieces and the Redskins have a pretty good defense to work with. Manning would immediately make either of those teams a division contender at least.



I would love to see Manning go to Miami. The defense has some talent. Brandon Marshall is a good receiver. Daniel Thomas and Reggie Bush are decent running backs (at least as good as what he had in Indianapolis the past few years).

BeerBaron
12-05-2011, 11:09 AM
I would love to see Manning go to Miami. The defense has some talent. Brandon Marshall is a good receiver. Daniel Thomas and Reggie Bush are decent running backs (at least as good as what he had in Indianapolis the past few years).

It would fit the bill Stephen Ross wants for a "superstar team" to compete with the Heat in town. Right now, the Dolphins are boring as sin. Get Peyton into town and keep Bush going would be the next best thing to having actually drafted Luck.

I'm not sure that Peyton would want to go there though. Tough division. (Yes, tougher than the gilded NFC East and WAAAAAY tougher than the NFC West.)

DraftSavant
12-05-2011, 11:11 AM
How stupid will the Raiders feel if Manning becomes available in the offseason? Incredibly stupid.

BeerBaron
12-05-2011, 11:15 AM
How stupid will the Raiders feel if Manning becomes available in the offseason? Incredibly stupid.

The pro-Palmer arguement given by gpngc and like 2 or 3 Raiders fans is that with Campbell out, trading for Palmer now gave them a shot to still be contenders.

They are pretty clearly not right now. Palmer has won them more games than...gew...ugh....Boller or Pryor would, but is that worth a 1st and 2nd? No. No it's not.

I don't even think Peyton will cost that much. If the Colts are offered one first rounder for him, they should absolutely take it.

BeerBaron
12-05-2011, 11:19 AM
Added another little piece:

8.) And a Patriots note...
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/12/05/patriots-start-three-new-defenders-including-a-wide-receiver/

Starting at safety against Indy: Nathan Jones and Matthew Slater. Jones was signed last week. Slater is a wide receiver and special teams player.

Only the Patriots...

Jughead10
12-05-2011, 11:20 AM
The teams who would trade for Manning AND that Manning would want to play for are pretty limited.

He's not going to go to a bad team. They have to have playoff caliber talent on the roster to begin with.

The top possibilities are the Redskins and possibly Seattle. Neither is ideal, but very few teams are ONLY a QB away from contending. The Seahawks have some decent offensive pieces and the Redskins have a pretty good defense to work with. Manning would immediately make either of those teams a division contender at least.



You and I could have been the Chiefs safeties yesterday and stopped the Hanie/Barber show. That was disgusting.

What about the 49ers? How unstoppable would they be?

BeerBaron
12-05-2011, 11:24 AM
What about the 49ers? How unstoppable would they be?

They'd be pretty damn unstoppable, but I highly doubt it would happen. Peyton would have to be willing to accept a pretty major pay cut.

Raiderz4Life
12-05-2011, 11:35 AM
The pro-Palmer arguement given by gpngc and like 2 or 3 Raiders fans is that with Campbell out, trading for Palmer now gave them a shot to still be contenders.

They are pretty clearly not right now. Palmer has won them more games than...gew...ugh....Boller or Pryor would, but is that worth a 1st and 2nd? No. No it's not.

I don't even think Peyton will cost that much. If the Colts are offered one first rounder for him, they should absolutely take it.

Blah!!! I dont even know how to feel right now

hockey619
12-05-2011, 11:37 AM
nothing on the soon to be abortion of a halftime show in february? quite a trendy pick.....if this were 1990. maybe.

Rosebud
12-05-2011, 11:38 AM
It would fit the bill Stephen Ross wants for a "superstar team" to compete with the Heat in town. Right now, the Dolphins are boring as sin. Get Peyton into town and keep Bush going would be the next best thing to having actually drafted Luck.

I'm not sure that Peyton would want to go there though. Tough division. (Yes, tougher than the gilded NFC East and WAAAAAY tougher than the NFC West.)

Depends. The difference between the two easts hasn't been that great this year as the Pats have been weak on D and even have a loss against the NFC east's Giants. The Jets are very mediocre and the Bills injuries have caught up to them again. If the giants fix their coaching staff and address the OL while the Cowboys keep beefing up their OL while adding to their secondary those two teams are just as big of a threat to a Peyton lead Redskins squad as the Pats and healthier Bills are to a Peyton lead Dolphins squad. Although he'd have more to work with in Miami on O than he would in Washington.

I think the Chiefs, Phins, Skins, Seahawks or maybe even the 9ers or Cards fit the bill. I know Alex Smith is having a career year and all, but Peyton behind that OL and running game with that defense at his back and he could add a couple more rings to round out his career. Cards similarly have the makings of a great defense and some offensive pieces Peyton could do very well with, if they can patch up their OL.

BeerBaron
12-05-2011, 11:39 AM
nothing on the soon to be abortion of a halftime show in february? quite a trendy pick.....if this were 1990. maybe.

This has been known about for a few months now I think. I think it was even posted here. Last night was just the "official" announcement I guess.

Regardless, the halftime show is, as others have put it "for the non-football fans watching."

Just do what I do every halftime show, get more food, beer and take a piss.

BeerBaron
12-05-2011, 11:43 AM
Depends. The difference between the two eastest hasn't been that great this year as the Pats have been weak on D and even have a loss against the NFC east's Giants. The Jets are very mediocre and the Bills injuries have caught up to them again. If the giants fix their coaching staff and address the OL while the Cowboys keep beefing up their OL while adding to their secondary those two teams are just as big of a threat to a Peyton lead Redskins squad as the Pats and healthier Bills are to a Peyton lead Dolphins squad. Although he'd have more to work with in Miami on O than he would in Washington.

I think the Chiefs, Phins, Skins, Seahawks or maybe even the 9ers or Cards. I know Alex Smith is having a career year and all, but Peyton behind that OL and running game with that defense at his back and he could add a couple more rings to round out his career. Cards similarly have the makings of a great defense and some offensive pieces Peyton could do very well with, if they can patch up their OL.

This has been the argument for years now and why I keep calling the division "gilded."

They look fine and dandy and are always talked about as Superbowl contenders, but since the realignment, they've send just as many teams to the Superbowl as the NFC West has.

Those teams get full of themselves and the media, maybe getting some sort of bizarre sense of entitlement, and it manifests itself when they lose games they absolutely shouldn't and stumble into the playoffs more often than not.

Their bark is worse than their bite is what I'm trying to get at. While teams like the Patriots and Jets have shown they can do much more in January than anyone in the East in recent years. The Giants won the SB once, and now that staff may be out the door.

jrdrylie
12-05-2011, 11:55 AM
Added another little piece:

8.) And a Patriots note...
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/12/05/patriots-start-three-new-defenders-including-a-wide-receiver/



Only the Patriots...

There used to be a professional wrestler named Nathan Jones. Not the same guy I hope.

jrdrylie
12-05-2011, 11:57 AM
This has been known about for a few months now I think. I think it was even posted here. Last night was just the "official" announcement I guess.

Regardless, the halftime show is, as others have put it "for the non-football fans watching."

Just do what I do every halftime show, get more food, beer and take a piss.

I'm pretty sure not even non-football fans watch want to watch old, hasn't had a hit in ten years, saggy boobs, fake British accent talking, Madonna.

Raiderz4Life
12-05-2011, 12:03 PM
Shouda gotten Gaga....she's like madonna but relevant

Rosebud
12-05-2011, 12:05 PM
This has been the argument for years now and why I keep calling the division "gilded."

They look fine and dandy and are always talked about as Superbowl contenders, but since the realignment, they've send just as many teams to the Superbowl as the NFC West has.

Those teams get full of themselves and the media, maybe getting some sort of bizarre sense of entitlement, and it manifests itself when they lose games they absolutely shouldn't and stumble into the playoffs more often than not.

Their bark is worse than their bite is what I'm trying to get at. While teams like the Patriots and Jets have shown they can do much more in January than anyone in the East in recent years. The Giants won the SB once, and now that staff may be out the door.

Well the NFC East's team team did win the most recent SB they went to and the other one lost a close one against the Dynasty Patriots. I mean since the patriots dynasty what's the AFC East's superbowl record? SB's are a little rough argument because most teams don't go to the superbowl, doesn't make them not very tough to play against.

The NFC east isn't some dominant division, but there aren't any dominant division. The best divisions have one dominant team, 2 inconsistently strong teams and a bottom feeder. The NFC East doesn't have that dominant team but they have two teams that are very good one, another team that **** the bed this year but has a lot of talent for a quick turn around if they make the right changes and the team Peyton would be going to. That means he's got two teams that will be good and one that might be good, any of which could end up in a superbowl in the near future. I just don't see much a difference between contending with the Giants/Cowboys/Eagles vs contending with the Pats/Jets/Bills. Both are tough divisions, not the best the NFL, but still very tough tests for Peyton to step into and immediately contend in.

The only advantage to going to the NFC East is he gets out of the AFC were teams have had to deal with him on a more regular basis than NFC squads.

TimmG6376
12-05-2011, 12:09 PM
Shouda gotten Gaga....she's like madonna but relevant

She would be better but I'm guessing too risky for the suits. She likes to be controversial with her costumes and with a platform like SB halftime who knows what she'd try to pull.

BeerBaron
12-05-2011, 12:14 PM
The only advantage to going to the NFC East is he gets out of the AFC were teams have had to deal with him on a more regular basis than NFC squads.

Does anyone know of a way to see his career win/loss record vs. the NFC? That would be interesting but not interesting enough for me to go through 14 years of games and do it myself.

Jughead10
12-05-2011, 12:18 PM
Does anyone know of a way to see his career win/loss record vs. the NFC? That would be interesting but not interesting enough for me to go through 14 years of games and do it myself.

I know he is 3-1 against the Giants.

soybean
12-05-2011, 12:19 PM
Can you make a note of how Aaron Maybin has 6 sacks and 4 forced fumbles this year?

If I was a bills fan I'd be PISSED.

BeerBaron
12-05-2011, 12:26 PM
I know he is 3-1 against the Giants.

Yeah, I can't think of any NFC teams who have been good against him. I'm pretty sure the Bears have lost to him the last couple of times at least.

Can you make a note of how Aaron Maybin has 6 sacks and 4 forced fumbles this year?

If I was a bills fan I'd be PISSED.

That is noteworthy. I think getting cut woke him up and Rex Ryan has channeled his fury.

DraftSavant
12-05-2011, 12:34 PM
It also reminds us all of how terrible Vernon Gholston must really be.

BeerBaron
12-05-2011, 12:47 PM
It also reminds us all of how terrible Vernon Gholston must really be.

Truly, truly horrible. They replaced his brain with some additional muscles I guess.

Maybin was basically a 220 pound blitzing safety at Penn State. He just tried to outrun the blocker every play. That was his whole game.

Then he bulked up pre-draft to like 250 and, having never had lateral quickness, lost his straight line speed too and was TERRIBLE in Buffalo.

Now he's found a happy medium and Rex Ryan has him charged up. Great scrap heap save by the Jets.

jrdrylie
12-05-2011, 01:10 PM
Does anyone know of a way to see his career win/loss record vs. the NFC? That would be interesting but not interesting enough for me to go through 14 years of games and do it myself.

Quick count it looks like 33-19. Not sure if that is 100% correct but pretty close.

BeerBaron
12-05-2011, 01:11 PM
Quick count it looks like 33-19. Not sure if that is 100% correct but pretty close.

Pretty good but not as good as I was expecting. Were there any teams that gave him particular trouble did you notice? He probably hasn't played any of them more than 3-4 times though with the way the schedule works...

FootballGod
12-05-2011, 01:25 PM
2
5.) The Bengals Should Not have Benched Andy Dalton
(If they did it because he got banged up, then ignore this section. All I know is Gradkowski got in at the end of the game.)

You have a rookie QB who has played phenomenally the rest of the year and your team still has a legitimate shot at a wildcard spot. So let's kick that rookie's confidence square in the balls by benching him!

So what that they game was out of hand? Gradkowski wasn't bringing you back either. I don't care if the team or the benched QB says it's no big deal...it is. Imagine if you were doing well at your job then, one day, you have a bad day and your boss replaces you. It'll still be your job tomorrow, but try and tell me that wouldn't sting.

At this point, I'll normally make a point to say something like "if the guy's confidence is that fragile, he shouldn't be an NFL QB." And while I do believe that in most cases, this is one where I don't. Dalton has been playing well and you bench him for one bad game against a defense notorious for killing rookies. The Bengals bungled this one.


FYI - Andy Dalton was landed on by Casey Hampton and another D-lineman after he threw a pass. He basically had 600 lbs. land on his hip. He was taken out for that reason and that reason alone.

BeerBaron
12-05-2011, 01:30 PM
FYI - Andy Dalton was landed on by Casey Hampton and another D-lineman after he threw a pass. He basically had 600 lbs. land on his hip. He was taken out for that reason and that reason alone.

Well, like I said, I didn't know if that was the case or not.

jrdrylie
12-05-2011, 01:46 PM
Pretty good but not as good as I was expecting. Were there any teams that gave him particular trouble did you notice? He probably hasn't played any of them more than 3-4 times though with the way the schedule works...

Actually, he is 35-18.

He is 3-0 against Detroit and Minnesota
He is 2-0 against Arizona and Tampa Bay
He is 3-1 against New York, Philadelphia, Washington, and Atlanta
He is 2-2 against Dallas, Seattle, St. Louis, San Francisco, and New Orleans
He is 1-2 against Chicago, Green Bay, and Carolina.

scottyboy
12-05-2011, 01:47 PM
Nathan Jones went to Rutgers, so the Pats will be fine.

and fenikz, the cards front 7 is filthy. I love it. They're a #2 corner away from having a pretty damn good defense.

BeerBaron
12-05-2011, 01:47 PM
I guess he's sucked worse vs. Chicago that i recalled....too bad he had to win that damn Superbowl.

SuperPacker
12-05-2011, 02:14 PM
Has anyone mentioned the Jets as a possible landing place for Manning? He would be against Tom Brady two times a year but with a good team around him so he would win pretty much every time. He would then be seen as the better quarterback out of the two. The jets have got to the AFC championship game 2 times with Sanchez at QB so imagine what they could do with Manning...

BeerBaron
12-05-2011, 02:22 PM
Has anyone mentioned the Jets as a possible landing place for Manning? He would be against Tom Brady two times a year but with a good team around him so he would win pretty much every time. He would then be seen as the better quarterback out of the two. The jets have got to the AFC championship game 2 times with Sanchez at QB so imagine what they could do with Manning...

The Jets won't budge from Sanchez. Rex and Tannenbaum have their fortunes with the team staked in him.

Plus, the team needs work despite having been competitive. Their WR corps in particular could be a mess.

Plaxico isn't a long term solution. He simply isn't.

Holmes is one slip up away from a years suspension...remember, he's already served 4 games once. One would hope he learned from that, but a lot of NFL players are nothing if not morons. (I liked to smoke the green in college too but if it put my millions of dollars making career on the line, I'd ******* stop.)

And they have a couple youngsters, but no one I really see being starting material. Kerly is a slot guy/return man at best.

Plus their defensive front is getting older. They'll need to replace Scott, both outside linebackers and they could still use d-line depth, AND their safeties aren't particularly good. Even if you factor Maybin in there as a long term starter, they still need help.

They simply won't give up on Sanchez or give up the picks and money it'll take to get Manning.

soybean
12-05-2011, 02:31 PM
The Jets won't budge from Sanchez. Rex and Tannenbaum have their fortunes with the team staked in him.

Plus, the team needs work despite having been competitive. Their WR corps in particular could be a mess.

Plaxico isn't a long term solution. He simply isn't.

Holmes is one slip up away from a years suspension...remember, he's already served 4 games once. One would hope he learned from that, but a lot of NFL players are nothing if not morons. (I liked to smoke the green in college too but if it put my millions of dollars making career on the line, I'd ******* stop.)

And they have a couple youngsters, but no one I really see being starting material. Kerly is a slot guy/return man at best.

Plus their defensive front is getting older. They'll need to replace Scott, both outside linebackers and they could still use d-line depth, AND their safeties aren't particularly good. Even if you factor Maybin in there as a long term starter, they still need help.

They simply won't give up on Sanchez or give up the picks and money it'll take to get Manning.

Not only that but I think soon we'll be desperate for a RB. despite having good weapons there's no true homerun threat at WR nor RB. Sanchez really misses Braylon.

EDIT: I think they will give Sanchez another year. If he can't get over the ~55% completion rate and 6.6 yards per attempt after next year, they will probably actively (yet not aggressively) look for a replacement.

DraftSavant
12-05-2011, 02:35 PM
The Jets won't budge from Sanchez. Rex and Tannenbaum have their fortunes with the team staked in him.

Plus, the team needs work despite having been competitive. Their WR corps in particular could be a mess.

Plaxico isn't a long term solution. He simply isn't.

Holmes is one slip up away from a years suspension...remember, he's already served 4 games once. One would hope he learned from that, but a lot of NFL players are nothing if not morons. (I liked to smoke the green in college too but if it put my millions of dollars making career on the line, I'd ******* stop.)

And they have a couple youngsters, but no one I really see being starting material. Kerly is a slot guy/return man at best.

Plus their defensive front is getting older. They'll need to replace Scott, both outside linebackers and they could still use d-line depth, AND their safeties aren't particularly good. Even if you factor Maybin in there as a long term starter, they still need help.

They simply won't give up on Sanchez or give up the picks and money it'll take to get Manning.

NYJ number of draft picks, by year:

2007: 4
2008: 6
2009: 3
2010: 4
2011: 6

That explains a lot.

BeerBaron
12-05-2011, 02:38 PM
NYJ number of draft picks, by year:

2007: 4
2008: 6
2009: 3
2010: 4
2011: 6

That explains a lot.

You gotta have draft picks in this day and age. Trading for a guy or signing a free agent here or there is nice and can put you over the top, but you need to develop your own talent.

SuperPacker
12-05-2011, 02:44 PM
I know this is never gonna happen but if i was the Ravens owner i would be getting Manning. Imagine that! The best defense in the NFL and the one of the best offenses. They would win a superbowl every year Peyton was their.

niel89
12-05-2011, 06:59 PM
Does anyone know of a way to see his career win/loss record vs. the NFC? That would be interesting but not interesting enough for me to go through 14 years of games and do it myself.

Here is pretty much every stat for Manning you could want:

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/M/MannPe00/splits//

Complex
12-05-2011, 07:04 PM
That Chiefs and broncos playoff games boosted the hell of playoff stats.

Bengalsrocket
12-06-2011, 12:55 AM
Here is pretty much every stat for Manning you could want:

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/M/MannPe00/splits//

Peyton has never lost to the Cardinals, Bengals, Browns, Lions, Vikings & Buccaneers.

That's probably also an exact list of the 6 teams with the worst records since he joined the league rofl (no, I didn't look it up, so not positive).

Vox Populi
12-06-2011, 04:02 AM
The Jets won't budge from Sanchez. Rex and Tannenbaum have their fortunes with the team staked in him.

Plus, the team needs work despite having been competitive. Their WR corps in particular could be a mess.

Plaxico isn't a long term solution. He simply isn't.

Holmes is one slip up away from a years suspension...remember, he's already served 4 games once. One would hope he learned from that, but a lot of NFL players are nothing if not morons. (I liked to smoke the green in college too but if it put my millions of dollars making career on the line, I'd ******* stop.)

And they have a couple youngsters, but no one I really see being starting material. Kerly is a slot guy/return man at best.

Plus their defensive front is getting older. They'll need to replace Scott, both outside linebackers and they could still use d-line depth, AND their safeties aren't particularly good. Even if you factor Maybin in there as a long term starter, they still need help.

They simply won't give up on Sanchez or give up the picks and money it'll take to get Manning.

The Jets offense is only bad because of Sanchez and Schottenheimer being terrible fits for each other. Plaxico has been amazing considering what he has come back from and the amount of time off he had, and he is the only reason that Sanchez doesn't look like a bottom 5ish QB statistically this year. Brian Schottenheimer only makes things look even worse with his inconsistent play calling. The Jets offense is fine when Sanchez is throwing a lot of quick read passes and working defenses underneath, and he can throw pretty solid fades to both Holmes and Burress, and if he has the time, Keller is lethal on out routes to the sideline, and Burress has made a lot of plays running a deep in. The issue is that so many of their passing plays take forever to develop. Their offense consists of way too many time and read routes down the field that they simply don't execute at a high enough rate to justify running them as often as they do. It goes against Sanchez's strengths, not to mention Holmes and Kerly's as well, especially when they try doing this when they don't need to. The best example for this would be the 2nd game against the Bills where they decided to try it anyways despite averaging 6-7 yards per play on the ground, and that let the Bills actually stay in the game until the 4th quarter. They have no identity or consistency on offense because Schottenheimer isn't running an offense that works for the players he has.

I honestly think that if you put Sanchez in a more effective WCO he would be a solid and consistent starter that could pretty much produce at a similar rate to Tony Romo. He isn't the QB to running long, slowly developing plays, especially late into December and January.

BeerBaron
12-06-2011, 08:26 AM
The Jets offense is only bad because of Sanchez and Schottenheimer being terrible fits for each other. Plaxico has been amazing considering what he has come back from and the amount of time off he had, and he is the only reason that Sanchez doesn't look like a bottom 5ish QB statistically this year. Brian Schottenheimer only makes things look even worse with his inconsistent play calling. The Jets offense is fine when Sanchez is throwing a lot of quick read passes and working defenses underneath, and he can throw pretty solid fades to both Holmes and Burress, and if he has the time, Keller is lethal on out routes to the sideline, and Burress has made a lot of plays running a deep in. The issue is that so many of their passing plays take forever to develop. Their offense consists of way too many time and read routes down the field that they simply don't execute at a high enough rate to justify running them as often as they do. It goes against Sanchez's strengths, not to mention Holmes and Kerly's as well, especially when they try doing this when they don't need to. The best example for this would be the 2nd game against the Bills where they decided to try it anyways despite averaging 6-7 yards per play on the ground, and that let the Bills actually stay in the game until the 4th quarter. They have no identity or consistency on offense because Schottenheimer isn't running an offense that works for the players he has.

I honestly think that if you put Sanchez in a more effective WCO he would be a solid and consistent starter that could pretty much produce at a similar rate to Tony Romo. He isn't the QB to running long, slowly developing plays, especially late into December and January.

At no point did I say that Plaxico or Holmes were bad players. But Plaxico is 34....he's not a long term solution at the position, and one stupid slip up by Holmes could see hims suspended for a full year. Kerly is a slot/#2 guy at absolute best.




Anywho, last night wasn't the best example of Gabbert's suckiness as the Chargers kind of suck on defense. Take away the long catch and run shovel pass by MJD and Gabbert's stats are right back in the "******" category.

I highly enjoyed the notoriously positive about everyone Gruden saying that if he was the Jaguars and didn't like what he saw out of Gabbert the rest of the year, he'd consider RGIII. Nice.

iowatreat54
12-06-2011, 11:42 AM
They did show a couple times where Gabbert vaguely felt pressure and would fall back/throw off his back foot to avoid any sort of contact, compared to Rivers who was stepping up.

It also seemed like a lot of Gabbert's throws were rushed/trying to make a quick read and either reading wrong or just making an awful throw.

I will say this, when he has time and decides he is going to throw, he looks pretty good. When he decides it's time to tuck and run, he looks pretty good. However, that's only like half the time combined. The other half he looks completely flusterred and sucky.

49ersfan_87
12-06-2011, 01:05 PM
I highly enjoyed the notoriously positive about everyone Gruden saying that if he was the Jaguars and didn't like what he saw out of Gabbert the rest of the year, he'd consider RGIII. Nice.

Honestly, I wonder if Gruden felt free to bash Gabbert because he knew he wouldn't be getting the Jaguar HC job. He praises anyone and everyone and i think its partly due to the possibility of him getting another HC gig soon, and not wanting to piss anyone off. But if he knows he's not going to be the HC in Jacksonville...bombs away.

murdamal86
12-06-2011, 01:12 PM
Anywho, last night wasn't the best example of Gabbert's suckiness as the Chargers kind of suck on defense. Take away the long catch and run shovel pass by MJD and Gabbert's stats are right back in the "******" category.


Name 3 Jags wr's without looking it up. I agree he hasn't looked really promising to me in all honesty but I mean he's NOT surrounded by a whole lot

Raiderz4Life
12-06-2011, 01:14 PM
Name 3 Jags wr's without looking it up. I agree he hasn't looked really promising to me in all honesty but I mean he's NOT surrounded by a whole lot

Its not the WRs we're talking about...its his poise, pocket awareness, and decision making that suck ass. We're not talking about his completion percentage or anything were a WR might be a factor.

JETS5128
12-06-2011, 01:29 PM
The Jets offense is only bad because of Sanchez and Schottenheimer being terrible fits for each other. Plaxico has been amazing considering what he has come back from and the amount of time off he had, and he is the only reason that Sanchez doesn't look like a bottom 5ish QB statistically this year. Brian Schottenheimer only makes things look even worse with his inconsistent play calling. The Jets offense is fine when Sanchez is throwing a lot of quick read passes and working defenses underneath, and he can throw pretty solid fades to both Holmes and Burress, and if he has the time, Keller is lethal on out routes to the sideline, and Burress has made a lot of plays running a deep in. The issue is that so many of their passing plays take forever to develop. Their offense consists of way too many time and read routes down the field that they simply don't execute at a high enough rate to justify running them as often as they do. It goes against Sanchez's strengths, not to mention Holmes and Kerly's as well, especially when they try doing this when they don't need to. The best example for this would be the 2nd game against the Bills where they decided to try it anyways despite averaging 6-7 yards per play on the ground, and that let the Bills actually stay in the game until the 4th quarter. They have no identity or consistency on offense because Schottenheimer isn't running an offense that works for the players he has.

I honestly think that if you put Sanchez in a more effective WCO he would be a solid and consistent starter that could pretty much produce at a similar rate to Tony Romo. He isn't the QB to running long, slowly developing plays, especially late into December and January.

Absolutely spot-on analysis. I really like the Romo comparison too, although Marky has already showed that hes a boss with the game on the line

hockey619
12-06-2011, 01:32 PM
BB

no mention of Denver OC mccoy? i feel like he might become a hotter name going into the offseason as he helps basically invent an offense that will work for tebow. i feel like teams will be impressed with how quickly he adjusted his scheme to fit his personnel. a lot of coaches have too much ego to do that.

Bucs_Rule
12-06-2011, 01:34 PM
Honestly, I wonder if Gruden felt free to bash Gabbert because he knew he wouldn't be getting the Jaguar HC job. He praises anyone and everyone and i think its partly due to the possibility of him getting another HC gig soon, and not wanting to piss anyone off. But if he knows he's not going to be the HC in Jacksonville...bombs away.

Gruden wouldn't want that job even if it were offered. The next coach will be stuck with Gabbert and Gruden wouldn't want to coach a QB he doesn't believe in.

DraftSavant
12-06-2011, 01:37 PM
Name 3 Jags wr's without looking it up. I agree he hasn't looked really promising to me in all honesty but I mean he's NOT surrounded by a whole lot

Isolate the quarterback.

bigbluedefense
12-06-2011, 01:53 PM
What's ironic in BB's hatred towards Tim Tebow is that he indirectly has turned the Broncos into the team me and BB were waiting for:

A team that would buck the trend, and build around a dominant run game and a stout defense. Look at the results. It's exactly what we thought it would be.

It just happens to be led by Tim Tebow. BB, your buck the trend team is staring you in the face, and you're not realizing it.

DraftSavant
12-06-2011, 01:57 PM
What's ironic in BB's hatred towards Tim Tebow is that he indirectly has turned the Broncos into the team me and BB were waiting for:

A team that would buck the trend, and build around a dominant run game and a stout defense. Look at the results. It's exactly what we thought it would be.

It just happens to be led by Tim Tebow. BB, your buck the trend team is staring you in the face, and you're not realizing it.

THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU.

Now go read the article I posted in the Triple Option thread, because you will absolutely love it.

BeerBaron
12-06-2011, 01:57 PM
What's ironic in BB's hatred towards Tim Tebow is that he indirectly has turned the Broncos into the team me and BB were waiting for:

A team that would buck the trend, and build around a dominant run game and a stout defense. Look at the results. It's exactly what we thought it would be.

It just happens to be led by Tim Tebow. BB, your buck the trend team is staring you in the face, and you're not realizing it.

No. No. Wrong. False.

I wanted a team like the 49ers, and we have that. A team who can pass regularly and effectively for when teams do stop their run.

The Broncos are running a wildcat-esque gimmick which will end. They're playing with fire and needed to beat the 2-10 Vikings by 3 points.

Now they get the Bears who have no offense. First team to score a TD wins!

This is NOT the team I wanted BBD. We have that in the 49ers. I hope they stay that way. If Alex Smith (or someone else at QB) can be a little more effective of a passer, they are the team I wanted. Run the ball, stop the run, play great red zone D.

The Broncos are NOT that.

Raiderz4Life
12-06-2011, 01:58 PM
I think when BB envisioned he saw a QB who could look competent throwing the ball and not look better than the former 1st round pick RB.

bigbluedefense
12-06-2011, 01:58 PM
THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU.

Now go read the article I posted in the Triple Option thread, because you will absolutely love it.

Will do sir.

DraftSavant
12-06-2011, 02:00 PM
No. No. Wrong. False.

I wanted a team like the 49ers, and we have that. A team who can pass regularly and effectively for when teams do stop their run.

The Broncos are running a wildcat-esque gimmick which will end. They're playing with fire and needed to beat the 2-10 Vikings by 3 points.

Now they get the Bears who have no offense. First team to score a TD wins!

This is NOT the team I wanted BBD. We have that in the 49ers. I hope they stay that way. If Alex Smith (or someone else at QB) can be a little more effective of a passer, they are the team I wanted. Run the ball, stop the run, play great red zone D.

The Broncos are NOT that.

There is no such thing as Platonic football. The constructs the NFL has ingrained are arbitrary, not iron-clad.

bigbluedefense
12-06-2011, 02:02 PM
No. No. Wrong. False.

I wanted a team like the 49ers, and we have that. A team who can pass regularly and effectively for when teams do stop their run.

The Broncos are running a wildcat-esque gimmick which will end. They're playing with fire and needed to beat the 2-10 Vikings by 3 points.

Now they get the Bears who have no offense. First team to score a TD wins!

This is NOT the team I wanted BBD. We have that in the 49ers. I hope they stay that way. If Alex Smith (or someone else at QB) can be a little more effective of a passer, they are the team I wanted. Run the ball, stop the run, play great red zone D.

The Broncos are NOT that.

The Broncos are just a more extreme version of it. And you gotta admit, Tebow is looking less awful with each coming week.

The triple option is just temporary. As Timmy grows, so will the offense.

Think about it BB. How many conversations have we had in the past where we said "If team A just ran the ball 40 times they would have won"

Well guess what the Broncos are doing? Just that.

BeerBaron
12-06-2011, 02:03 PM
I think when BB envisioned he saw a QB who could look competent throwing the ball and not look better than the former 1st round pick RB.

Tebow is a fullback with good passing skills for a fullback. His "better" throws are to wide open receivers off of play action because the opposing defense doesn't have disciplined enough DBs to cover.

What I would do to stop Tebow:

1.) Keep everything inside. Those receivers can get wide open when he's allowed to roll. Do a mush rush that forces him to stay in the pocket and that forces all runs into the middle too. I'll trust my linebackers and safeties to keep them shorter.

2.) Corners play disciplined. No matter what. They have to stick to their guy. The Broncos receivers can keep getting behind them because Tebow is allowed to roll, especially off of play action. Have the corners play disciplined and keep everything inside on the ground.

The Jets honestly had the best formula to do this but blew it completely.

BeerBaron
12-06-2011, 02:05 PM
The Broncos are just a more extreme version of it. And you gotta admit, Tebow is looking less awful with each coming week.

The triple option is just temporary. As Timmy grows, so will the offense.

Think about it BB. How many conversations have we had in the past where we said "If team A just ran the ball 40 times they would have won"

Well guess what the Broncos are doing? Just that.

It was against the 2 win Vikings with a notoriously bad secondary.

Any team who can get up 2 or more scores on the Broncos will win. It's the same reason the triple option struggles to achieve great success in college. Georgia Tech can run all over the Duke's of the world, but throw them up against a team who can slow them down a little while putting up points on offense, and they're toast. They have no comeback ability because their style of moving the ball most effectively kills the clock.

DraftSavant
12-06-2011, 02:07 PM
Tebow is a fullback with good passing skills for a fullback. His "better" throws are to wide open receivers off of play action because the opposing defense doesn't have disciplined enough DBs to cover.

What I would do to stop Tebow:

1.) Keep everything inside. Those receivers can get wide open when he's allowed to roll. Do a mush rush that forces him to stay in the pocket and that forces all runs into the middle too. I'll trust my linebackers and safeties to keep them shorter.

2.) Corners play disciplined. No matter what. They have to stick to their guy. The Broncos receivers can keep getting behind them because Tebow is allowed to roll, especially off of play action. Have the corners play disciplined and keep everything inside on the ground.

The Jets honestly had the best formula to do this but blew it completely.

That's great on the chalkboard, but how many defenses as currently constructed can actually execute this over the course of a 60 minute game when they're used to playing the pass 50 times every other week?

Babylon
12-06-2011, 02:09 PM
They did show a couple times where Gabbert vaguely felt pressure and would fall back/throw off his back foot to avoid any sort of contact, compared to Rivers who was stepping up.

It also seemed like a lot of Gabbert's throws were rushed/trying to make a quick read and either reading wrong or just making an awful throw.

I will say this, when he has time and decides he is going to throw, he looks pretty good. When he decides it's time to tuck and run, he looks pretty good. However, that's only like half the time combined. The other half he looks completely flusterred and sucky.

I'm going to give Gabbert time before i pass too much judgement on him. We knew he needed work coming in so why should that be a surprise. Add to that his offensive line isnt any great shakes and his WRs are both young and mediocre.

The Tebow craze seems to be building with every win and granted their success has been mostly against bad defenses but it's the most excitement Denver has seen in quite awhile. Tebow is never going to be a Matthew Stafford throwing the football but his will to win is incredible. Intanginles can only take you so far but in this case they seem to transfer to every member of that team. I personally think the story is good for the league.

bigbluedefense
12-06-2011, 02:19 PM
It was against the 2 win Vikings with a notoriously bad secondary.

Any team who can get up 2 or more scores on the Broncos will win. It's the same reason the triple option struggles to achieve great success in college. Georgia Tech can run all over the Duke's of the world, but throw them up against a team who can slow them down a little while putting up points on offense, and they're toast. They have no comeback ability because their style of moving the ball most effectively kills the clock.

But compare how much Tebow has grown since his first start. He went from missing WRs by 10 yards to missing WRs by 4 yards. There is improvement there. I know I'm being sarcastic, but you're not factoring in the fact that this guy has improved with each week and has shown to be more competent throwing the ball as the season progresses.

I'm not saying rub him down with annointing oil and call it a day. All I'm saying is, give it a shot. Why can't it work? As long as he continues to grow and the offense continues to grow around him, why can't it work?

soybean
12-06-2011, 02:25 PM
But compare how much Tebow has grown since his first start. He went from missing WRs by 10 yards to missing WRs by 4 yards. There is improvement there. I know I'm being sarcastic, but you're not factoring in the fact that this guy has improved with each week and has shown to be more competent throwing the ball as the season progresses.

I'm not saying rub him down with annointing oil and call it a day. All I'm saying is, give it a shot. Why can't it work? As long as he continues to grow and the offense continues to grow around him, why can't it work?

he still has the same windup and leg whip. I don't think those will be going away any time soon.

Also, can we mention how we once thought Calvin Johnson was on pace to break the TD record but has now been overtaken by a TE?

BeerBaron
12-06-2011, 02:28 PM
I'm not saying rub him down with annointing oil and call it a day. All I'm saying is, give it a shot. Why can't it work? As long as he continues to grow and the offense continues to grow around him, why can't it work?

Against elite competition, or even "better than the Chargers and Vikings" competition, I think he'll struggle.

Recent history has taught us that there are 2 ways to win a Superbowl:

1.) Elite or near-Elite QB (everyone else in the last 10-15 years)

2.) All time great defense studded with HoFers. (Bucs, Ravens)

Von Miller looks good, but the Broncos are a long way from winning a Superbowl without an elite offense. Long long way.

Someday, it may have to wait until next year though, I'm going to get to say "I told you so." And believe me, I will relish the opportunity.

DraftSavant
12-06-2011, 02:32 PM
Nobody is saying you won't be right eventually, BB. Nobody is saying that this offense is going to revolutionize the NFL, and everyone will start abandoning traditional methods.

We're just saying that dismissing it as a wildcat fad is an injustice. There's a LOT of really interesting football strategy going on here, and I'm surprised that you're simply turning your nose up at it because of some attachment to platonic, "ideal" football.

Like I said, we've seen how bad the Broncos were with a traditional offense. Where do innovations in football always come from? Adversity.

bigbluedefense
12-06-2011, 02:40 PM
Against elite competition, or even "better than the Chargers and Vikings" competition, I think he'll struggle.

Recent history has taught us that there are 2 ways to win a Superbowl:

1.) Elite or near-Elite QB (everyone else in the last 10-15 years)

2.) All time great defense studded with HoFers. (Bucs, Ravens)

Von Miller looks good, but the Broncos are a long way from winning a Superbowl without an elite offense. Long long way.

Someday, it may have to wait until next year though, I'm going to get to say "I told you so." And believe me, I will relish the opportunity.

The Jets were supposed to whip him up and down the field. Did they?

The Jets are a pretty good defense.

murdamal86
12-06-2011, 03:08 PM
Its not the WRs we're talking about...its his poise, pocket awareness, and decision making that suck ass. We're not talking about his completion percentage or anything were a WR might be a factor.

Isolate the quarterback.

I'm just trying to place blame since i'm not even on board with him myself

BeerBaron
12-06-2011, 03:13 PM
The Jets were supposed to whip him up and down the field. Did they?

The Jets are a pretty good defense.

I said that the Jets blew it. They're not a team I have much faith in.

murdamal86
12-06-2011, 03:14 PM
Against elite competition, or even "better than the Chargers and Vikings" competition, I think he'll struggle..


But isn't that just about EVERY QB in the league that isn't elite? That's not really saying anything

Complex
12-06-2011, 03:15 PM
I said that the Jets blew it. They're not a team I have much faith in.

List of teams you have faith in.

jth1331
12-06-2011, 03:18 PM
BeerBaron's hatred of Tebow knows no bounds.
Look for Tebow to show no mercy against Baron's Bears.

BeerBaron
12-06-2011, 03:23 PM
List of teams you have faith in.

In general? I have to think about what this means.....hmm. It's usually a situational thing.

Right now, if I had to take one team to beat any other team, you obviously start with the Packers.

If not them, the Steelers. Their defense isn't what it once was but Ben and those receivers...damn, man.

I typically have a lot of faith in the Patriots. I'd trust them to beat more teams than not, but their patchwork defense scares the hell out of me. I'll put this one this way, if I could have a coach for any one game, I'd still take Belichick hands down.

With teams like the Jets and Chargers who I repeatedly say I have no faith in, I mean it as I could see them losing to anyone. Anyone. You never know what Jets team you'll get. I'm not sure I'd trust them to beat the Colts right now, but I wouldn't count them out of any game either.

That's usually what I mean. They could beat anyone, or lose to anyone...you never know.

The Ravens are similar in that. If they run Ray Rice and let Flacco chuck one up for Torrey Smith to keep defenses honest, they could beat anyone. But then they have games where Rice will get all of 6 carries and they lose to teams they shouldn't.

I hate teams like that. Beat who you're supposed to beat. If your a team who never gets upset, you'll be capable of great things.

BeerBaron's hatred of Tebow knows no bounds.
Look for Tebow to show no mercy against Baron's Bears.

Please. I have no faith in the Hanie/Barber show. If we had Cutler and Forte playing like we were a few weeks ago and lost, I'd be absolutely devastated. Now, I'm so numb to the Bears losing that I won't even feel it.

The Packers won with INJURIEZZ last year, but still had their QB. That's the important part of that.

Complex
12-06-2011, 03:24 PM
I meant in terms of stopping the Tebow Magic Hope train.

Raiderz4Life
12-06-2011, 03:25 PM
Nobody is saying you won't be right eventually, BB. Nobody is saying that this offense is going to revolutionize the NFL, and everyone will start abandoning traditional methods.

We're just saying that dismissing it as a wildcat fad is an injustice. There's a LOT of really interesting football strategy going on here, and I'm surprised that you're simply turning your nose up at it because of some attachment to platonic, "ideal" football.

Like I said, we've seen how bad the Broncos were with a traditional offense. Where do innovations in football always come from? Adversity.

It is just a wildcat/option fad. Its what they run because it is the ONLY thing they can run. Every other team has a semi-decent QB or one that just sucks at everything i.e. Blaine Gabbert

BeerBaron
12-06-2011, 03:27 PM
I meant in terms of stopping the Tebow Magic Hope train.

Give me the Steelers or Pats in the playoffs, with a shot of the Ravens or a rematch with the Jets just behind that.

If the Steelers with Ben and those young WRs can get up early, that defense should wreck Tebow.

The Pats takes that philosophy further. Their defense is so suspect, but I don't see the Broncos defense stopping the Gronk show. No one has thus far.

DraftSavant
12-06-2011, 03:27 PM
It is just a wildcat/option fad. Its what they run because it is the ONLY thing they can run. Every other team has a semi-decent QB or one that just sucks at everything i.e. Blaine Gabbert

The wildcat was a wrinkle that defenses had to account for. This is the foundation of what the Broncos are doing on offense. There's a huge difference.

DraftSavant
12-06-2011, 03:28 PM
Give me the Steelers or Pats in the playoffs, with a shot of the Ravens or a rematch with the Jets just behind that.

If the Steelers with Ben and those young WRs can get up early, that defense should wreck Tebow.

The Pats takes that philosophy further. Their defense is so suspect, but I don't see the Broncos defense stopping the Gronk show. No one has thus far.

I'd take those teams against most in the playoffs. They're the favorites to represent the conference in the Superbowl. The fact that those are the only teams you'd feel comfortable declaring a heavy favorite against this silly gimmick-running team speaks volumes.

BeerBaron
12-06-2011, 03:29 PM
Alright, I'm going to drop this for now. Talk to me if they even make a deep playoff run with this.

Given an offseason to study this offense, opposing defenses will stop it. In today's league, you have to pass the ball to win a Superbowl. Even Alex Smith has a better shot than does Tebow.

bigbluedefense
12-06-2011, 05:52 PM
Reading about Perry Fewell rushing 3 and dropping everyone in coverage makes me a sad panda.

Seriously, how hard is it to be a coordinator? Sometimes you wonder how dumb these guys are. Why is common sense so scarce in coaching? It's really frustrating.

I've come to the conclusion that most coaches were those dumb jocks you knew growing up who didn't know what to do after college and went into coaching. So they weren't the brightest bulbs to begin with.

DraftSavant
12-06-2011, 05:59 PM
Reading about Perry Fewell rushing 3 and dropping everyone in coverage makes me a sad panda.

Seriously, how hard is it to be a coordinator? Sometimes you wonder how dumb these guys are. Why is common sense so scarce in coaching? It's really frustrating.

I've come to the conclusion that most coaches were those dumb jocks you knew growing up who didn't know what to do after college and went into coaching. So they weren't the brightest bulbs to begin with.

I feel this way about NFL and NBA GMs.

bigbluedefense
12-06-2011, 06:00 PM
I feel this way about NFL and NBA GMs.

NBA GMs definitely take the cake. It's not even close.

Rabscuttle
12-06-2011, 06:52 PM
I meant in terms of stopping the Tebow Magic Hope train.

I wish the Niners had a shot at him. He'd be my dream opponent for their first playoff game in almost a decade.

J-Mike88
12-06-2011, 08:10 PM
Will Von Miller be back?
I want to see if the refs let him get away with late hits on Brady. I mean I want to see it about a half-dozen times LOL......

Jvig43
12-06-2011, 08:39 PM
i think we'll be more ok than we would've been last season. we're typically, for some reason and regardless of coaching changes, one of the only teams that just blitzes and beats up brady. yes, he'll occasionally win one. but it's the reason we're 5-2 against them since 2001. which makes me curious if anyone else has that kind of record against them.

gronk will certainly get his numbers. welker probably will, too. but we've beat them consistently when they had far better teams and actually had a real defense/offensive line on the field.

I seriously always dread playing Denver. The one team I never like playing. No matter how bad our defense is however, I will be disappointed if we lose to the Tebows.

crossroads
12-06-2011, 09:16 PM
i think we'll be more ok than we would've been last season. we're typically, for some reason and regardless of coaching changes, one of the only teams that just blitzes and beats up brady. yes, he'll occasionally win one. but it's the reason we're 5-2 against them since 2001. which makes me curious if anyone else has that kind of record against them.

gronk will certainly get his numbers. welker probably will, too. but we've beat them consistently when they had far better teams and actually had a real defense/offensive line on the field.

Brady has a winning record against every other team in the league, except for Washington and St. Louis who are both 1-1 against him.

jth1331
12-07-2011, 09:42 AM
I seriously always dread playing Denver. The one team I never like playing. No matter how bad our defense is however, I will be disappointed if we lose to the Tebows.

Brady is 1-5 All time vs. the Broncos, which is incredible if you really think about. Don't know if that counts the postseason start he lost in Denver, his first career postseason loss.
Also, that one win he has against the Broncos was back in 2003 when the Broncos trotted out Danny Kanell at QB and Jason Elam was too injured to kick long field goals. I believe the Broncos punted from the Pats 30 yard line 2-3 times that game.

Timbathia
12-07-2011, 02:16 PM
The Jets were supposed to whip him up and down the field. Did they?

The Jets are a pretty good defense.

To be fair the jets defense did completely stifle the broncos for 57 minutes. Before the final drive, the broncos offense had scored 3 points despite great starting field position, our rbs were averaging about a yard and a half per carry, and Tebow had less than 100 yards passing.

There are still massive questions about whether the broncos can move the ball against one of the top 6 defenses.