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Borat
12-07-2011, 02:18 AM
Week 14:
Sunday, December 11, 2011

http://www.abload.de/img/vlcsnap-34631rpwp.png

San Francisco 49ers (10-2)
at
Arizona Cardinals (5-7)

Location: University of Phoenix Stadium
http://www.nfl-gambling-news.com/Pro-Bowl-2011/Stadiums/Stadiums/Cardinals.jpg

Time: 1:05 pm pst

http://cdn0.sbnation.com/entry_photo_images/2405458/134860892_extra_large.jpg

NFC WEST CHAMPIONS! Damn, it seems like forever. Finally got over the hump after so many years of pure suckage. So let's take a moment and:

Jump up and down if you want.
http://www.news10.net/images/640/360/2/assetpool/images/111204081935_49erscelebration640.jpg

Celebrate it.
http://d.yimg.com/a/p/sp/getty/97/fullj.421b55e3cb5baf1fb9259dba791266aa/421b55e3cb5baf1fb9259dba791266aa-getty-134861070.jpg

Or don't.
vC3HuyiZSWY

Yeah.
http://blog.sfgate.com/49ers/wp-content/blogs.dir/2277/files/49ers-rams-week-13-highlights/ba-49ers05_ph10__0504678659.jpg

Get it out of your system now, cause we still got work to do. The #2 seed is in our hands. Got to get back to business.

Just one more
http://media.sacbee.com/smedia/2011/12/04/18/55/2YZEp.St.4.jpg

OK, for real, let's get down to business. Going to 'Zona and we can't afford a letdown. We got two real tests left (Pittsburgh, at Seattle) and we have a 1.5 game lead over the Saints. We can't lose this game. I'm saying we a lot. Weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee.

Feed this man the ball PLEASE
http://www4.pictures.zimbio.com/gi/Vernon+Davis+New+York+Giants+v+San+Francisco+bd2LX zij1frl.jpg

This is not the proper way to defense him:
http://www.theamericandishtv.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/49ers-vs-Cardinals.jpg

Yeah, this isn't proper either:
http://photos.upi.com/topics--49ers-Vernon-Davis-leaps-high-against-the-Rams-in-San-Francisco/8842b7aa9498874b5416fff97ae70dca/V_13.jpg

This guy is looking healthy and I think he's ready to have a big, breakout game
http://www3.pictures.zimbio.com/gi/Michael+Crabtree+St+Louis+Rams+v+San+Francisco+SEZ _PXyhUYUl.jpg

But we got none of this
http://www.news10.net/images/640/360/2/assetpool/images/111206125903_patrick_willis640.jpg

So we'll need more of this
http://imgs.sfgate.com/c/pictures/2011/12/05/sp-49ers06_ph2_0504684983_part6.jpg

and this
http://media.baycitizen.org/uploaded/images/2011/12/niners-player-celebrates/lightbox/134861130%20(1).jpg

This guy is back
http://static.deseretnews.com/images/article/sidebar/681584/Arizona-Cardinals-Kevin-Kolb-celebrates-after-the.jpg

So, I guess none of this
http://www.azcardinals.com/assets/images/imported/ARI/photos/article/MainJanuary11/BartelShotMain.jpg

And, same as last time, more of this
http://cdn0.sbnation.com/entry_photo_images/2312559/95952_Cardinals_49ers_Football.jpg

and less of this
http://cdn2.sbnation.com/entry_photo_images/2362928/134175845_extra_large.jpg

Standings: Should I even post the standings anymore?

1. San Francisco 49ers (10-2)
2. Arizona Cardinals (5-7)
2. Seattle Seahawks (5-7)
4. St. Louis Rams (2-10)

Special Note:
http://www.49ers.com/assets/images/news/2011/12-December/120411-Harbaugh-Header.jpg

Ness
12-07-2011, 03:12 AM
Cardinals might be a tough game. They are playing good football lately and I'm a little nervous about our offense not converting third downs and some of the drops on key plays. I hope that doesn't keep haunting us. But third downs, we really need to improve in that area. As long as we get after the quarterback and continue to shut down the run we should be fine. Have to keep a lead against the Saints. I really don't want to potentially lose the bye and win another game just to play the damn Saints in the Superdome. I like the Titans chances against the Saints this weekend so I'm hoping for an upset.

Madirishman
12-07-2011, 10:32 AM
I'll be at this game (7th year in a row since moving to AZ) and will be representing the NFC West Champion Faithful! I believe Hawkeye is going as well.

The Cards have been playing well as of late and I think that while Seattle's D is overall better, the Cards have the more talented team, second best in the division. The Niners will have to contain Beanie Wells early and then eat Kolb alive with the pass rush, making sure that PP or Stephens-Howling don't crack any big plays open on special teams.

The Niners have had pretty good success in AZ and there has been some close games they've won in recent years. This year is different and I want to see them dominate and run up the score.

Gore usually thrashes these guys and VD scored his first TD against them here in AZ. Gore's hip injury did occur in the blowout win for the Niners last year which sucked big time but I did meet Steve Young that night (as it was a Monday Night game) which helped bring my spirits back up. That and the postgame rant by Derek Anderson, who puts his 'heart and soul into this $*!+!"

http://youtu.be/Y2vTzHf2tus

LMAO - It IS funny! Go Niners!

abaddon41_80
12-07-2011, 12:44 PM
Definitely could see this being a trap game. We are gonna be overlooking the Cardinals after winning the division and they aren't a bad team. Not to mention that the running game has been terrible recently.

hawkeye123
12-07-2011, 02:50 PM
I'll be attending this game. First Niner game i'll see in person since '03. So pumped!

phlysac
12-07-2011, 04:42 PM
http://d.yimg.com/a/p/sp/getty/cd/fullj.8e9a9093ee38fd1e8a815b73bb0f92d1/8e9a9093ee38fd1e8a815b73bb0f92d1-getty-134859562.jpg

THIS appears to be the best way to defend Vernon :/

49erNation85
12-07-2011, 09:06 PM
Should be a fun game to watch this weekend. Wish I had Tv here in AZ it would be on ha oh well.

I'm so happy that we have finally made it to a 10-2 record we could only wish to be 11-1 from that Dallas mess but oh well we made it threw and a destroying the nfc west like we should have been. But now most likely we are gonna own it for a few years coming.Unless Seattle can get a real QB and some protection or every one else starts playing fresh. I would love to be able to watch CK get some playing time this Sunday if it is a blow out. We need to see if he can run this offense and make it fly.

phlysac
12-07-2011, 09:23 PM
Translation...

"I hope Alex Smith plays well enough, again, to blow another team out so CK can play and take his job."


/Tremendous rationale.

Brent
12-07-2011, 09:44 PM
/Tremendous rationale.
I actually want to see Kendall Hunter throw down a 100+ yard game...

dan77733
12-07-2011, 10:06 PM
Even if its a blowout, I would still keep Smith in the game but he would handing off to Dixon and Hunter in that order to waste as much time as possible until the game is over.

stl9erfan
12-08-2011, 04:26 AM
This one could be tough... but the one I'll really be worried about as a "trap" game is against Seattle in a few weeks. There's enough bad blood between the Niners and Cardinals that I don't think Arizona will ever catch SF napping. Meanwhile, if the Niners were to win the next two, and especially if New Orleans were to lose one in there and GB keeps on winning, I could see a let down against the SeaChickens. Short week, maybe not quite as much motivation to play for at that point... and that could potentially be huge because there's still an outside shot that Seattle could make the playoffs at 9-7 if they win out... And given their remaining schedule, if they were to beat us, they could do that.

ETA: One minor nitpick I had from last week's game-- the Wildcat. Is anyone fooled by this anymore? What possible purpose could it serve to take out your QB and basically let the other team know, "Yeah, we're definitely running it." This seems even more absurd to me given that we have Kaepernick on the bench. If you really wanted to run this kind of play, why not let Kaepernick be the Wildcat back? He'd be a legitimate threat to run or throw that would actually keep the defenses honest.

Verloren
12-08-2011, 09:38 AM
Maybe the idea is to have Hunter and Kaepernick out there at the same time to provide the threat of a direct snap to Hunter.

PatrickWillis
12-08-2011, 02:32 PM
http://d.yimg.com/a/p/sp/getty/cd/fullj.8e9a9093ee38fd1e8a815b73bb0f92d1/8e9a9093ee38fd1e8a815b73bb0f92d1-getty-134859562.jpg

THIS appears to be the best way to defend Vernon :/

Phlysac always loves to mention the drops....but never the laughable off target throws, which are just as bad.


And weren't you on News in 09' sucking Vernon's **** playing the "I told you so" game with them on him breaking out? Now with one bad drop and you're off the wagon? Holy facepalm.

binary
12-09-2011, 03:50 AM
I'm a little nervous about our offense not converting third downs and some of the drops on key plays. I hope that doesn't keep haunting us.

You hit the nail on the head, those little lapses have been killing drives. We lead the league in drop rate and sacks given up, yet we still have a QB and a WR performing at a top 10 level; imagine how good the O would be if the execution improved.

This is gonna be a tough game, can't believe they beat a streaking Dallas team last week. I actually see our guys coming up short :(.

Ness
12-09-2011, 04:04 AM
You hit the nail on the head, those little lapses have been killing drives. We lead the league in drop rate and sacks given up, yet we still have a QB and a WR performing at a top 10 level; imagine how good the O would be if the execution improved.

This is gonna be a tough game, can't believe they beat a streaking Dallas team last week. I actually see our guys coming up short :(.

Well I personally wouldn't say top 10 as far as Smith and Crabtree are concerned. They've shown flashes of good things though. We'll see next year how our third down percentage measures up. That's the main I thing I think is holding this offense back from being pretty good. Alex's growth factor as well.

And I wouldn't put much stock in beating Dallas. The Cowboys lost that game more so than Arizona won the game in my opinion. Arizona is still not that good against the run. Frank Gore seemed to be having a good game early against the Cardinals when we faced them three weeks ago. I think he is the key in this game, unless Harbaugh wants to air it out. Unfortunately there is no room to breathe due to New Orleans in hot pursuit. We need to win this game in the worst way, because losing to the the Cardinals doesn't bode well for having to face the Steelers the following week.

binary
12-09-2011, 04:20 AM
Well I personally wouldn't say top 10 as far as Smith and Crabtree are concerned. They've shown flashes of good things though. We'll see next year how our third down percentage measures up. That's the main I thing I think is holding this offense back from being pretty good. Alex's growth factor as well.



I would say Alex is definitely top 10 THIS year so far, there is too much statistical backing; the only area he falls short is total yards and total attempts. Weakest area imo was YPA, but even that is around 12th in the league right now, not bad when you consider we get some of the lowest YAC in the league. When you consider the total sacks, the drop rate, the injuries at WR, it's pretty impressive stuff.

Crabtree I know you're not a big fan of, and I could see the argument for top 15-25, but remember he was playing hurt AND he missed training camp. Right now he's healthy and his suddenness is killing people. He still has some drop issues but he's a lot better there than he used to be, plus his utter physicality makes up for it imo. He's even shown some straight-line deep speed. He'll never have elite athleticism, but with his craftiness and change of direction, he could be a #1 guy.

Drops are still a huge problem for this team. I know everyone loves Morgan, but it would be sweet if we landed Bowe next year. It all depends on Braylon I guess. Not a huge fan of the WRs in this draft or taking WRs early in general.

abaddon41_80
12-09-2011, 05:30 AM
Phlysac always loves to mention the drops....but never the laughable off target throws, which are just as bad.


And weren't you on News in 09' sucking Vernon's **** playing the "I told you so" game with them on him breaking out? Now with one bad drop and you're off the wagon? Holy facepalm.

There have been a lot more drops this year than there have been ridiculously off-target throws. There have been more drops than there have been off-target throws, period, honestly.

phlysac
12-09-2011, 08:20 AM
Phlysac always loves to mention the drops....but never the laughable off target throws, which are just as bad.


And weren't you on News in 09' sucking Vernon's **** playing the "I told you so" game with them on him breaking out? Now with one bad drop and you're off the wagon? Holy facepalm.

No facepalms for me oh, kind sir. Vernon Davis is my favorite offensive player. Just because I show both praise for good play and blame for bad play, doesn't mean I'm "off the wagon."

Those that blindly support or blindly bash are the ones that are jokes.

Got jokes?

PatrickWillis
12-09-2011, 01:29 PM
There have been a lot more drops this year than there have been ridiculously off-target throws. There have been more drops than there have been off-target throws, period, honestly.

That would be false.

PatrickWillis
12-09-2011, 01:30 PM
No facepalms for me oh, kind sir. Vernon Davis is my favorite offensive player. Just because I show both praise for good play and blame for bad play, doesn't mean I'm "off the wagon."

Those that blindly support or blindly bash are the ones that are jokes.

Got jokes?

Well you blindly support Alex, so I guess you are a joke.

PatrickWillis
12-09-2011, 01:33 PM
I would say Alex is definitely top 10 THIS year so far, there is too much statistical backing; the only area he falls short is total yards and total attempts. Weakest area imo was YPA, but even that is around 12th in the league right now, not bad when you consider we get some of the lowest YAC in the league. When you consider the total sacks, the drop rate, the injuries at WR, it's pretty impressive stuff.

Crabtree I know you're not a big fan of, and I could see the argument for top 15-25, but remember he was playing hurt AND he missed training camp. Right now he's healthy and his suddenness is killing people. He still has some drop issues but he's a lot better there than he used to be, plus his utter physicality makes up for it imo. He's even shown some straight-line deep speed. He'll never have elite athleticism, but with his craftiness and change of direction, he could be a #1 guy.

Drops are still a huge problem for this team. I know everyone loves Morgan, but it would be sweet if we landed Bowe next year. It all depends on Braylon I guess. Not a huge fan of the WRs in this draft or taking WRs early in general.

I'd like to see a link that proves we are the lowest YAC team in the league. Hard to see since Crabtree has recently killed it in the YAC department, as well as Kyle Williams who gave Smith a TD this past sunday with his YAC ability.

And I would also point out that YAC is largely dependent on passes thrown in stride, which is obviously not Smith's strength.

phlysac
12-09-2011, 01:44 PM
Well you blindly support Alex, so I guess you are a joke.

Showing support for positives in a player is far from"blind support." You follow me around. Feel free to provide an example of me giving blind support for him.

In your opinion ANYONE that supports Smith is blind, because your hate for him, indeed, is.

PatrickWillis
12-09-2011, 01:50 PM
Showing support for positives in a player is far from"blind support." You follow me around. Feel free to provide an example of me giving blind support for him.

In your opinion ANYONE that supports Smith is blind, because your hate for him, indeed, is.

It's not just support actually. There's plenty of fans that like Alex but can also realize when his play is not all that good. The Ravens game, for example. When the Head Coach comes out and says some of the sacks were Smith's fault, that should be a clue, but you, and all the other EXTREME Alex fans completely blame it on the line and no one else is to blame.


And also.....If you didn't show blind support, why do you ALWAYS mention a crucial drop but never mention an off target throw? Or mention on the 1st play in the Ravens game where Alex had Delanie running deep for 6 and decided to check it down? Hmmmm....I wonder


And I don't hate Smith. I think he's an average QB who flashes some accuracy every now and then. What I HATE, are the idiot fans who say our receivers are horrible and holding Alex back, which is a very amusing joke. Tell me, how many times have you seen Alex hit a backshoulder throw? I have seen it a LITTLE bit more this year but still not that much. When have you seen him throw a receiver open, meaning he threw the pass before the receiver's break to create maximum separation? Plenty of QB's do this, but it seems Alex relies on rub patterns created by the route design to make his throws.


My point is this....I believe highly in Jim Harbaugh and Greg Roman's scheme.....And I think there are about 20 QB's outside of Smith that could at the very least replicate his production, if not make the passing game more dynamic.

phlysac
12-09-2011, 02:39 PM
It's not just support actually. There's plenty of fans that like Alex but can also realize when his play is not all that good. The Ravens game, for example. When the Head Coach comes out and says some of the sacks were Smith's fault, that should be a clue, but you, and all the other EXTREME Alex fans completely blame it on the line and no one else is to blame.


And also.....If you didn't show blind support, why do you ALWAYS mention a crucial drop but never mention an off target throw? Or mention on the 1st play in the Ravens game where Alex had Delanie running deep for 6 and decided to check it down? Hmmmm....I wonder


And I don't hate Smith. I think he's an average QB who flashes some accuracy every now and then. What I HATE, are the idiot fans who say our receivers are horrible and holding Alex back, which is a very amusing joke. Tell me, how many times have you seen Alex hit a backshoulder throw? I have seen it a LITTLE bit more this year but still not that much. When have you seen him throw a receiver open, meaning he threw the pass before the receiver's break to create maximum separation? Plenty of QB's do this, but it seems Alex relies on rub patterns created by the route design to make his throws.


My point is this....I believe highly in Jim Harbaugh and Greg Roman's scheme.....And I think there are about 20 QB's outside of Smith that could at the very least replicate his production, if not make the passing game more dynamic.

I don't even need to go back too far to prove I can criticize Smith...

Just this past weekend, in fact, regarding the deep passes that made you proclaim I was "off the wagon." Passes that you claim I "never" mention.

Bring facts.



Where are your posts about Alex's other deep pass.

Being a "hater" is one thing. Just be fair about it.

Alex blew one, VD blew one.


and


He rarely even attempts that throw, but yes, he's erratic.

Question... If it's a perfect ball, do you trust Ginn to catch it?


and as far as the sacks in the Ravens game... here's what I said...


"some"... as did I, in the chat. Two were obvious because he had the ball for like 5 seconds.



"I told you so's"??? Feel free to bring them to the table. I always supported Vernon Davis. It's not an "I told you so."

and here's my signature showing my support for VD,

http://img705.imageshack.us/img705/4195/vdsig.png



I get you disagree with me. I just wish you wouldn't generalize what I say when it's not factual.

Borat
12-09-2011, 03:28 PM
Well you blindly support Alex, so I guess you are a joke.

I'm always amazed that you can't simply hold a conversation on these boards without insulting people.

Play nice.

Madirishman
12-09-2011, 03:31 PM
'The 49ers new anthem' playing at their practice today according to Maiocco.

http://www.csnbayarea.com/blog/niners-talk/post/The-49ers-new-anthem?blockID=606822&feedID=5884

Completely. Buying. In.

phlysac
12-09-2011, 03:34 PM
'The 49ers new anthem' playing at their practice today according to Maiocco.

http://www.csnbayarea.com/blog/niners-talk/post/The-49ers-new-anthem?blockID=606822&feedID=5884

Completely. Buying. In.

I buy.

Aside from mentioning Reggie instead of Justin.

PatrickWillis
12-09-2011, 03:38 PM
I'm always amazed that you can't simply hold a conversation on these boards without insulting people.

Play nice.

His words, not mine

Those that blindly support or blindly bash are the ones that are jokes.

I was just using his own logic.

Borat
12-09-2011, 03:49 PM
His words, not mine


Fair enough. Everyone needs to cool it with personal attacks.

But I had to delete some of your posts in the past for personal attacks. Please don't make me do it again. It really shouldn't be necessary.

PatrickWillis
12-09-2011, 03:53 PM
I don't even need to go back too far to prove I can criticize Smith...

Just this past weekend, in fact, regarding the deep passes that made you proclaim I was "off the wagon." Passes that you claim I "never" mention.

Bring facts.



and



and as far as the sacks in the Ravens game... here's what I said...




"I told you so's"??? Feel free to bring them to the table. I always supported Vernon Davis. It's not an "I told you so."

and here's my signature showing my support for VD,

http://img705.imageshack.us/img705/4195/vdsig.png



I get you disagree with me. I just wish you wouldn't generalize what I say when it's not factual.

1) alex blew 2, not one. Had 2 off target throws to ginn to the far sideline, and this is still a problem with him. He seems much better at throwing it deep between the hashes and awful at throwing it to the far sideline. That's not hating, that's calling it how it is. Yes, VD dropped an easy one for a TD on a great pass. So in my estimation, VD blew one, and Alex blew 2.

2)As for the Ravens game. Perfect example of why I think you are a homer when it comes to Smith. Yes, you did blame Smith for 2 of them when he held on to it too long. However, just because some of the other sacks were "under 3.8 seconds" you(and many other alex fans) automatically assume it was the line's fault. When the Ravens send 6 or 7, there is a hot read. That means....**** the 3.8 seconds. He has to get rid of it pretty much right after the ball is in his hands. Unfortunately, and while you may disagree, alex's footwork in the pocket is still lackluster, his release is average and he cowers under pressure. I would hazard a guess 3 more of those sacks could have been avoided if he had recognized the hot read...there were 2 in particular where I saw Hunter wide in the flat....

3) Yeah I know you are a vernon fan. That's why I wondered why you were bashing him for one drop.


And btw guys.....I was watching the Pack vs the Giants, and Rodgers "outstanding" receivers dropped like 7 passes. But apparently, only Alex has to suffer from drops, right?

PatrickWillis
12-09-2011, 03:55 PM
Fair enough. Everyone needs to cool it with personal attacks.

But I had to delete some of your posts in the past for personal attacks. Please don't make me do it again. It really shouldn't be necessary.

Roger that.

binary
12-09-2011, 04:03 PM
Phly, you've been so absurdly right over the last couple years, I wouldn't even waste the energy. We should all be flying high, especially those of us that have been proven right over this past year about what the team really needed (ahem).

PatrickWillis
12-09-2011, 04:05 PM
Phly, you've been so absurdly right over the last couple years, I wouldn't even waste the energy. We should all be flying high, especially those of us that have been proven right over this past year about what the team really needed (ahem).

Yeah, you were REALLLY right about Crabtree when you said he couldn't run routes.....


And I also seem to remember Phlysac defending Singletary before the disastrous 10' season over on News.....Could be wrong, but I'm fairly sure of it.

PatrickWillis
12-09-2011, 04:07 PM
Phlysac...let's just get it in the open....How many QB's would you take over Alex currently?

PatrickWillis
12-09-2011, 04:57 PM
Look at this. Everyone knows passer rating is flawed. ESPN QBR has Alex ranked 24th despite his passer rating, and ranks Tebow low as well despite his own decent passer rating.

Keep in mind, this stat DOES take into context YAC for a QB. QB's with receivers who have a higher YAC get dinged more.

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/7307382/nfl-week-13-total-qbr-season-leaders


Top 10 level of play? Hardly.

Ness
12-09-2011, 05:05 PM
I'm always amazed that you can't simply hold a conversation on these boards without insulting people.

Play nice.

It's always hilarious when someone tries to act hard behind a computer.

PatrickWillis
12-09-2011, 05:07 PM
It's always hilarious when someone tries to act hard behind a computer.

Even more hilarious when posters get butthurt and have to resort to ignoring people. Sensitivity on the internet FTL.

Ness
12-09-2011, 05:10 PM
Even more hilarious when posters get butthurt and have to resort to ignoring people. Sensitivity on the internet FTL.

http://i.imgur.com/aG5pD.png

It was really because your posts were so awful and I got tired of you not knowing what you were talking about. Had nothing to do with getting butthurt, more so than it had to do with you being obnoxious. When you have to resort to insulting someone to debate a point, you've already lost the argument. That's the real joke, FRIENDO.


Believe what you want to believe though.

WhatWouldBillyBajemaDo?
12-09-2011, 06:22 PM
Look at this. Everyone knows passer rating is flawed. ESPN QBR has Alex ranked 24th despite his passer rating, and ranks Tebow low as well despite his own decent passer rating.

Keep in mind, this stat DOES take into context YAC for a QB. QB's with receivers who have a higher YAC get dinged more.

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/7307382/nfl-week-13-total-qbr-season-leaders


Top 10 level of play? Hardly.

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/qb
Football Outsiders has Alex 11th in DVOA
The other statistic given is DVOA, or Defense-adjusted Value Over Average. This number represents value, per play, over an average quarterback in the same game situations. The more positive the DVOA rating, the better the player's performance. Negative DVOA represents below-average offense. DVOA (and its cousin, VOA, which isn't adjusted based on opponent)
and 14th in DYAR:
Effective Yards, listed in red, translate DVOA into a yards per attempt figure. This provides an easy comparison: in general, players with more Effective Yards than standard yards played better than standard stats would otherwise indicate, while players with fewer Effective Yards than standard yards played worse than standard stats would otherwise indicate. Effective Yards are not the best way to measure total value because they are more dependent on usage than DYAR.

Passes total includes sacks and aborted snaps. Both count against a quarterback's value.
Fumbles count the same whether lost to the defense or retained by the offense.

IMO he has played at a top 15 level this season and I think Football Outsiders QB system pegs it more accurately compared to ESPN QBR. I think ESPN's weighs sacks too heavily against a QB and I don't like their interpretation of "Clutch Weight."

dan77733
12-09-2011, 09:46 PM
IMO he has played at a top 15 level this season and I think Football Outsiders QB system pegs it more accurately comapred to ESPN QBR. I think ESPN's weighs sacks too heavily against a QB and I don't like their interpretation of "Clutch Weight."

Hmmmm, im not following this argument/conversation but are you arguing over what ESPN says? If so, why are you even wasting your time? Who cares?

Smith is playing good, not making the mistakes he's made in the past and we're winning games. That's all I care about. I dont give two craps about all these other stats. The only stat that matters is under the "W".

phlysac
12-09-2011, 10:33 PM
And I also seem to remember Phlysac defending Singletary before the disastrous 10' season over on News.....Could be wrong, but I'm fairly sure of it.

I defended him through the Martz debacle (firing Martz, losing Linehan, settling with Raye.) I was wrong too because he truly proved TO ME that he was a clown of a coach early into 2010. However, I wasn't a huge Martz fan, doubt I ever will be, and I gave Sing the benefit of the doubt.


I call it how I see it. I was wrong in my defense of him. It was a benefit of doubt I shouldn't have given. I trusted he would surround himself with capable people, and he didn't.

Phlysac...let's just get it in the open....How many QB's would you take over Alex currently?

Without 2nd guesses I would take...

Aaron Rodgers
Tom Brady
Drew Brees
Ben Roethlisberger
Philip Rivers
Peyton Manning (healthy)
Eli Manning

With consideration for fit in a Harbaugh system, I would include Alex Smith in a group of...

Tony Romo
Jay Cutler
Matt Schaub
Matthew Stafford
Matt Ryan
Cam Newton.


But thus far in 2011 (and perhaps into the future) he is performing better than several of those guys.

WhatWouldBillyBajemaDo?
12-09-2011, 11:31 PM
Hmmmm, im not following this argument/conversation but are you arguing over what ESPN says? If so, why are you even wasting your time? Who cares?



What you didn't like ESPN's "TebowCenter" a few days ago? It was groundbreaking television. Actually I like their attempt to bring another advanced metric to QB. I think with a few tweaks over the years it will improve. What I don't like is their bloggers/TV personalities slipping it into conversation every chance they get. ESPN propaganda.

Smith is playing good, not making the mistakes he's made in the past and we're winning games. That's all I care about. I dont give two craps about all these other stats. The only stat that matters is under the "W".

I'm with you on that to a degree. I think there are a few things that need to be tightened up. Ness has brought up 3rd down % and it hasn't improved as much as I thought it would, which is a concern to me heading into January. Also I am worried about our red zone efficiency. Alex has excelled in that in the past but this year he hasn't been as efficient as I would like to see.

I am looking forward to this stretch of 3 games. Great litmus test to see where this team stands with the Steelers game sandwiched between two divisional road games that don't look like the cakewalks we assumed they would be a month ago.

VAfy-ya
12-10-2011, 04:12 AM
I defended him through the Martz debacle (firing Martz, losing Linehan, settling with Raye.) I was wrong too because he truly proved TO ME that he was a clown of a coach early into 2010. However, I wasn't a huge Martz fan, doubt I ever will be, and I gave Sing the benefit of the doubt.


I call it how I see it. I was wrong in my defense of him. It was a benefit of doubt I shouldn't have given. I trusted he would surround himself with capable people, and he didn't.



Without 2nd guesses I would take...

Aaron Rodgers
Tom Brady
Drew Brees
Ben Roethlisberger
Philip Rivers
Peyton Manning (healthy)
Eli Manning

With consideration for fit in a Harbaugh system, I would include Alex Smith in a group of...

Tony Romo
Jay Cutler
Matt Schaub
Matthew Stafford
Matt Ryan
Cam Newton.


But thus far in 2011 (and perhaps into the future) he is performing better than several of those guys.

I'd defintely take him over Stafford and Ryan, two QBs I feel are highly overated. Him and Romo are probably a wash. I think Romo is a better passer but a worst decision maker. But I don't feel he performs better in the WCO than the rest of the guys you have mentioned, under Jimbaugh's mentorship. I think people forget just how good Cutler looked when he was a young pup in Denver. And I've eaten a buffet-sized plate of crow on Newton this year. You would defintely take some lumps and bruises with him as your starter but as Jimbaugh once famously said, "thats plutonium grade raw material right there".

Ness
12-10-2011, 05:00 AM
The thing that is offsetting Alex's lack of yardage and whatever is his good decision making this season. Stafford and Ryan may have more yards and touchdowns, but their decision making hasn't been the best this season from what I've seen. It's still good for the most part, but they've had some up down games too.

binary
12-10-2011, 04:34 PM
I agree with phly's list except for Ryan , Ryan is an overrated turd right now. I think Stafford will be a baller in a year or so.

Romo is a freaking good QB, much better than Alex, he just has too much of a microscope on him.

phlysac
12-10-2011, 09:37 PM
Of the guys on my list, I believe Alex has performed better and/or more consistently than...


Philip Rivers
Jay Cutler
Matthew Stafford
Matt Ryan
Cam Newton.

binary
12-10-2011, 09:39 PM
Of the guys on my list, I believe Alex has performed better and/or more consistently than...


Philip Rivers
Jay Cutler
Matthew Stafford
Matt Ryan
Cam Newton.

and you'd be right.

VAfy-ya
12-11-2011, 06:42 AM
Of the guys on my list, I believe Alex has performed better and/or more consistently than...


Philip Rivers
Jay Cutler
Matthew Stafford
Matt Ryan
Cam Newton.

I think Cutler has played consistently good , considering his OC( yes, I loathe Martz), scheme and his horrid O-Line. And he doesn't have the benefit of a comptent OC, who will actually run the ball to take some of the pressure of the passing game and from getting his QB killed. He seemed to play better when Martz actually realized he has Marshall Faulk 2.0 in Forte and started scheming as such. But I shudder to think what Alex would look like with that OC, and that line. I don't think it would mirror his play here. Sometimes a bad play-caller and scheme can bring down even the best QB. If anyone should know that, it should be us Niner fans.

Madirishman
12-11-2011, 10:53 AM
Heading to game today! Looking forward to tailgating and enjoying some roasted Cardinal this holiday season. Cheers gentlemen!

binary
12-11-2011, 02:35 PM
This is gonna be a really tough game imo.

Ness
12-11-2011, 03:33 PM
Alex Smith playing terrible today. Holding on to the ball way too long.


49ers not converting third downs. What else is new. Tired of this ****.

Ness
12-11-2011, 03:35 PM
Skelton is coming in. Good.

WhatWouldBillyBajemaDo?
12-11-2011, 03:41 PM
Staley out with head injury. Boone time.

Hate burning 2 TOs in the 1st Quarter and now a delay of game out of the timeout. You gotta be kidding me.

Ness
12-11-2011, 03:46 PM
This just in. Ginn sucks as a receiver.

Ness
12-11-2011, 03:50 PM
Ginn redeems himself with a 52 yard punt return.

Borat
12-11-2011, 03:54 PM
Yuck. Our pass pro is terrible. Need to make A LOT of adjustments.

Ness
12-11-2011, 03:55 PM
Alex playing like his old "bust" label. 3rd and goal and he throws it short of the endzone. What the hell is wrong with you Alex. Why the hell would you throw it short? And if you do throw it short, don't throw it into a crowded area dumbass.

Red zone offense continues to suck. We won't win against the Saints like this.

Borat
12-11-2011, 04:00 PM
Aldon Beast.

WhatWouldBillyBajemaDo?
12-11-2011, 04:15 PM
What a bizarre sequence by the refs on that one. Can't believe they blew our dead fake and couldn't even look at the replay.

binary
12-11-2011, 04:46 PM
that redzone playcalling is epically bad. Fade to Ginn? QB outside run? wtf?

Rabscuttle
12-11-2011, 04:51 PM
Yikes, the offense almost makes me glad I'm running in and out for pieces of the game while I try to figure out why the parking ligths don't work on the wife's vehicle.

WhatWouldBillyBajemaDo?
12-11-2011, 04:55 PM
Finally have a 49ers defense player reach double digits sacks. I hope that becomes Aldon's celebration.

GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOORRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRE EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1

Rabscuttle
12-11-2011, 04:57 PM
Crabs just came up with the block to finish Gore's run. I'm liking what I see from him more and more after the last two years where I was really down on him. He's making some catches that he wasn't committing to previously as well.

I don't understand the Cards getting that low hit on Skelton called when Smith didn't get it earlier.

Last man can't miss on a gamble like that. And he's hurt for his troubles.

Borat
12-11-2011, 05:46 PM
It just feels like we're trying to lose this game.

Borat
12-11-2011, 06:12 PM
What a piece of **** performance. Just pathetic.

binary
12-11-2011, 06:13 PM
Alex Smith was terrible, absolutely terrible. What happened?

WhatWouldBillyBajemaDo?
12-11-2011, 06:16 PM
Tough loss. Schedule doesn't get easier with Steelers and @Seattle next. Our bye week maybe in trouble.

fenikz
12-11-2011, 06:17 PM
Good game as always, but as I've said Smith is not the answer you would be an elite team with a good QB

maybe 9-7 Cardinals play you in the 1st round :D

PatrickWillis
12-11-2011, 06:36 PM
Alex Smith was terrible, absolutely terrible. What happened?

Top 10 QB I thought, Nostradamus?

Ness
12-11-2011, 06:37 PM
Alex Smith was terrible, absolutely terrible. What happened?

He has limitations. This reminded me of the Lions game where his accuracy was just absolutely terrible. I know it was just one game, but you can't have bad accuracy like that. And you need someone to make something out of nothing when receivers aren't open. We may seriously need to look at another quarterback for the future. Maybe Kaepernick if Jim really sees something in him. Maybe trade up and try to get someone like Matt Barkley or something. Would anyone seriously be pissed if the 49ers traded their entire draft for Andrew Luck? Or their entire draft and some of next year's picks? I wouldn't.

We won't win in the playoffs against New Orleans playing like that.

PatrickWillis
12-11-2011, 06:37 PM
This wasn't Alex's fault. He NEVER holds on to the ball too long. NEVER! Line's fault!

And how many receivers did not adjust to passes 5 yards off target? Need 3 new receivers!

VAfy-ya
12-11-2011, 06:39 PM
Good game as always, but as I've said Smith is not the answer you would be an elite team with a good QB

maybe 9-7 Cardinals play you in the 1st round :D

Maybe we'd be better if we had Kolb? ****, you had nothing to say 3 weeks ago when we smashed your sorry ass team at the Stick. Do me favor, look at your QB(s) stats this year. Now look at Alex's.....that's the difference between 6-7 and 10-3. Enjoy watching Smith in the playoff. I hate fans that always want to pop off at the mouth after their team gets a upset win. Defintion of lame.

Ness
12-11-2011, 06:39 PM
Tough loss. Schedule doesn't get easier with Steelers and @Seattle next. Our bye week maybe in trouble.

Oh it already is in trouble. I don't see the Saints losing another game. And if that is true, that means the 49ers have to win three straight. Pittsburgh at home, on the road against the Rams, and at Seattle. I just don't see it happening. Hell, I wouldn't be surprised if we just win one more game. If we play like we did against Arizona, that is what is going to happen.

binary
12-11-2011, 06:40 PM
He has limitations. This reminded me of the Lions game where his accuracy was just absolutely terrible. I know it was just one game, but you can't have bad accuracy like that. And you need someone to make something out of nothing when receivers aren't open. We may seriously need to look at another quarterback for the future. Maybe Kaepernick if Jim really sees something in him. Maybe trade up and try to get someone like Matt Barkley or something. Would anyone seriously be pissed if the 49ers traded their entire draft for Andrew Luck? Or their entire draft and some of next year's picks? I wouldn't.

We won't win in the playoffs against New Orleans playing like that.

That's the sad thing, we might have to start over again. He made all this progress and then he plays a stinker like this, baffling. I don't see much in Kap to be honest, a huge project. Receivers definitely weren't getting open today either and had some key drops, just no rhythm at all...but Alex has to carry the team during those moments. We still have a chance at the bye, they gotta get that.

fenikz
12-11-2011, 06:41 PM
Maybe we'd be better if we had Kolb? ****, you had nothing to say 3 weeks ago when we smashed your sorry ass team at the Stick. Do me favor, look at your QB(s) stats this year. Now look at Alex's.....that's the difference between 6-7 and 10-3. Enjoy watching Smith in the playoff. I hate fans that always want to pop off at the mouth after their team gets a upset win. Defintion of lame.

lol why you mad? I've literally said nothing that hasn't been said a million times in here

Ness
12-11-2011, 06:42 PM
Maybe we'd be better if we had Kolb? ****, you had nothing to say 3 weeks ago when we smashed your sorry ass team at the Stick. Do me favor, look at your QB(s) stats this year. Now look at Alex's.....that's the difference between 6-7 and 10-3. Enjoy watching Smith in the playoff. I hate fans that always want to pop off at the mouth after their team gets a upset win. Defintion of lame.

He kind of has a point. I was at a bar here in San Francisco and all of the 49ers fans were roasting Alex Smith.

"Where the **** was he throwing it too?"

"Alex ******* sucks."

"Bench his ass."

A Denver fan kept chanting "Tebow" after the Broncos won and said Alex Smith sucks. And a 49ers fan said "Yes, **** Alex Smith tell me something that isn't new".

Meanwhile Drew Brees and Aaron Rodgers have another Hall of Fame performance. I wish we had one of those guys.

Ness
12-11-2011, 06:45 PM
I don't get why Alex's accuracy just changes like that. I'm wondering if it's the result of the surgery he had a while back or if he practices too much in a week. Of course he'll say it wasn't a factor to the media, but his accuracy was downright awful today. And I hate to say it, but he is to blame for the loss today for the most part.

Ness
12-11-2011, 06:48 PM
Next three New Orleans Saints games:

@Minnesota
Atlanta
Carolina

Only team I can see them losing to is the Falcons, but they are playing at home. Drew Brees will probably have another career performance against the Vikings next weekend.

Ness
12-11-2011, 06:50 PM
There is a database error for the main 49ers message boards. It's offline. LOL.

Brent
12-11-2011, 06:51 PM
What a piece of **** performance. Just pathetic.
This x1000

binary
12-11-2011, 06:53 PM
"Where the **** was he throwing it too?"

"Alex ******* sucks."

"Bench his ass."

.

Niner fans are dumb as rocks though, that doesn't mean much at all. I would say Smith is partly to blame, I think the playcalling was bad and the OL was bad too. Secondary was bad too. Smith was a part, but to say he's the main reason is being a little jaded.

I think we know now for sure that Alex can't carry a team that isn't clicking. He just doesn't have enough talent like a Brees or Rodgers, only a few QBs do.

king2am
12-11-2011, 06:53 PM
Would anyone seriously be pissed if the 49ers traded their entire draft for Andrew Luck? Or their entire draft and some of next year's picks? I wouldn't. .

I would. It's been 13 games for Alex in this system. Next Montana? Hardly. But I believe the offense and the entire team as a whole will improve next year. Also, I don't think we're in a position where we can mortgage the future on one player. I think we're really close, but there's no way we are Andrew Luck away from being a Super Bowl champ.

This wasn't Alex's fault. He NEVER holds on to the ball too long. NEVER! Line's fault!

And how many receivers did not adjust to passes 5 yards off target? Need 3 new receivers!

Relax. It's been stated, he had a bad game. No need to try and be obnoxious about it. Everyone is upset about the game, last I checked we were fans of the same team.

abaddon41_80
12-11-2011, 06:56 PM
A sad performance all-around but the blame will, of course, fall squarely on Alex Smith even though he was our best offensive player today. He was still off, just like the last Cardinals game, but he threw what should have been a touchdown to Ginn early on and was dodging tons of pressure all day.

Chin up, though, fellow fans. Every good team has had a let-down game this year--the Saints got dominated by the Rams, the Ravens lost to the Jaguars and Seahawks, etc. Our let-down game wasn't nearly as bad as those.

Ness
12-11-2011, 06:57 PM
I would. It's been 13 games for Alex in this system. Next Montana? Hardly. But I believe the offense and the entire team as a whole will improve next year. Also, I don't think we're in a position where we can mortgage the future on one player. I think we're really close, but there's no way we are Andrew Luck away from being a Super Bowl champ.
Yeah it's his first year in the system, but that doesn't really fix his accuracy problems. Doesn't matter what kind of system you are in, if your accuracy is inconsistent you aren't going to play well. And there have been quarterbacks that have had their first year in a new system or gone to a new team and played great. Alex is a seven year veteran, and although he's had some constant change in his career, now isn't the time for excuses. We are passed that. It's time to put up or shut up. Today Alex Smith's accuracy was terrible, some of the worst I've ever seen. Tebow looked better today throwing the ball.

If Andrew Luck is as good as people are making him out to be, then I don't see why you would be upset. You'd pass on a potential grade A quarterback? If we got a quarterback, a good one that is capable of having three great games in a row, then we'd be a much better team. Sure our receivers aren't that great, but a good quarterback makes those guys better by default. I don't see that happening with this offense that much. And Luck would already know the system.

WhatWouldBillyBajemaDo?
12-11-2011, 06:59 PM
I would. It's been 13 games for Alex in this system. Next Montana? Hardly. But I believe the offense and the entire team as a whole will improve next year. Also, I don't think we're in a position where we can mortgage the future on one player. I think we're really close, but there's no way we are Andrew Luck away from being a Super Bowl champ.




Agree. They paid Harbaugh a good chunk of money in part due to his ability dto identify QBs and develop them. That is why I don't see them giving up a ton of picks to move up for a QB or go after a Manning. I think what is more concerning to Harbaugh is the 49ers lack of ability to run the ball. Take away Gore's 37 yard TD and he averaged 3.5 yards per carry. Gore hasn't had 100+ yards rushing since week 9. That is our bread and butter and they just aren't ripping off enough big runs.

Ness
12-11-2011, 06:59 PM
A sad performance all-around but the blame will, of course, fall squarely on Alex Smith even though he was our best offensive player today. He was still off, just like the last Cardinals game, but he threw what should have been a touchdown to Ginn early on and was dodging tons of pressure all day.

Chin up, though, fellow fans. Every good team has had a let-down game this year--the Saints got dominated by the Rams, the Ravens lost to the Jaguars and Seahawks, etc. Our let-down game wasn't nearly as bad as those.

The hell? He wasn't our best offensive player today. It was Frank Gore by a mile. The Cardinals are terrible against the run, don't know why we let it go so early when it was clear Alex wasn't going to win us the game.

binary
12-11-2011, 07:00 PM
I don't get why Alex's accuracy just changes like that. .

I didn't see bad accuracy either. There just weren't a lot of guys open; the big issue was the pocket presence/happy feet. The early pressure obviously got to Alex.

Again, you mentioned accuracy again, I didn't see too many bad throws at all. Every time he took a deep shot, guys were covered. He even purposely overthrew Vernon because he was doubled.

WhatWouldBillyBajemaDo?
12-11-2011, 07:03 PM
Yeah it's his first year in the system, but that doesn't really fix his accuracy problems. Doesn't matter what kind of system you are in, if your accuracy is inconsistent you aren't going to play well. And there have been quarterbacks that have had their first year in a new system or gone to a new team and played great. Alex is a seven year veteran, and although he's had some constant change in his career, now isn't the time for excuses. We are passed that. It's time to put up or shut up. Today Alex Smith's accuracy was terrible, some of the worst I've ever seen. Tebow looked better today throwing the ball.

He has stretches where he sprays the ball but he is hitting over 60% of his passes and (before this game) was on the fringe of being in the top 10 of yards per attempt. Also Alex has had 7 years in the league but he has less starts than Aaron Rodgers, who sat for 3 years. Still has room to grow and we have seen strides of improvement in his accuracy. He just didn't deal with pressure well today and I am anxious to see how he handles with Pitt's exotic front.

Ness
12-11-2011, 07:05 PM
Agree. They paid Harbaugh a good chunk of money in part due to his ability dto identify QBs and develop them. That is why I don't see them giving up a ton of picks to move up for a QB or go after a Manning. I think what is more concerning to Harbaugh is the 49ers lack of ability to run the ball. Take away Gore's 37 yard TD and he averaged 3.5 yards per carry. Gore hasn't had 100+ yards rushing since week 9. That is our bread and butter and they just aren't ripping off enough big runs.

You're acting as if Harbaugh really wanted Alex Smith to be his starter. Let's face it, due to the lockout and the offseason issues with the NFL, Harbaugh didn't really have a choice. And they tried to get Matt Hasselbeck here. Harbaugh was stuck with Smith by default because he was the best guy available. So he had to roll with him.

If Harbaugh was brought in to develop quarterbacks, why can't you see him picking a highly touted one?

And it's clear Gore's best days are behind him and he's fallen off the cliff. It's also clear that Harbaugh is trying to move this team to more of a passing ball club.

fenikz
12-11-2011, 07:06 PM
The hell? He wasn't our best offensive player today. It was Frank Gore by a mile. The Cardinals are terrible against the run, don't know why we let it go so early when it was clear Alex wasn't going to win us the game.


Hasn't been the case recently

Murray 12/38
SJax 17/64
Gore 24/88
McCoy 14/81
SJax 29/130
Rice 18/63
Mendenhall 13/32

but ya you should of certainly run the ball more, especially early when the offense wasn't doing anything and the defense had been on the field for 3/4 of the game

king2am
12-11-2011, 07:06 PM
Yeah it's his first year in the system, but that doesn't really fix his accuracy problems. Doesn't matter what kind of system you are in, if your accuracy is inconsistent you aren't going to play well. And there have been quarterbacks that have had their first year in a new system or gone to a new team and played great. Alex is a seven year veteran, and although he's had some constant change in his career, now isn't the time for excuses. We are passed that. It's time to put up or shut up. Today Alex Smith's accuracy was terrible, some of the worst I've ever seen. Tebow looked better today throwing the ball.

If Andrew Luck is as good as people are making him out to be, then I don't see why you would be upset. You'd pass on a potential grade A quarterback? If we got a quarterback, a good one that is capable of having three great games in a row, then we'd be a much better team. Sure our receivers aren't that great, but a good quarterback makes those guys better by default. I don't see that happening with this offense that much. And Luck would already know the system.

I wasn't offering that up as an excuse, sorry if I dressed it up like that. I just think he, along with the rest of the team, will improve with an offseason and another year with the staff. I should have said staff, and I said system. I apologize for that. Because you are right, Luck would already know the system. Smith has already improved though, regardless of being a 7 yr vet, with Harbaugh. I think continuing that relationship will foster better habits, like footwork, which are tied directly to accuracy.

Ness
12-11-2011, 07:07 PM
I didn't see bad accuracy either. There just weren't a lot of guys open; the big issue was the pocket presence/happy feet. The early pressure obviously got to Alex.

Again, you mentioned accuracy again, I didn't see too many bad throws at all. Every time he took a deep shot, guys were covered. He even purposely overthrew Vernon because he was doubled.

Then that is just a bad decision if he overthrew Vernon Davis on purpose. You have a playmaker on your team. At least give your guy a shot to make a play. Don't play scared.

We weren't watching the same game then, because Alex Smith had one of his worst games as a pro as far as his passing goes. His accuracy was God-awful.

Ness
12-11-2011, 07:08 PM
I wasn't offering that up as an excuse, sorry if I dressed it up like that. I just think he, along with the rest of the team, will improve with an offseason and another year with the staff. I should have said staff, and I said system. I apologize for that. Because you are right, Luck would already know the system. Smith has already improved though, regardless of being a 7 yr vet, with Harbaugh. I think continuing that relationship will foster better habits, like footwork, which are tied directly to accuracy.

We as fans have to consider the possibility that Alex just isn't very good. Honestly I think we need to move in a different direction unless Alex proves in these next few games that he does in fact deserve to be the starter of this team.

VAfy-ya
12-11-2011, 07:09 PM
The hell? He wasn't our best offensive player today. It was Frank Gore by a mile. The Cardinals are terrible against the run, don't know why we let it go so early when it was clear Alex wasn't going to win us the game.

And that's why this loss isnt soley on Alex. Yes, he played bad. But play-calling was bad. Pass-coverage was bad. Protection was bad. We gave up six sacks to the freakin Cards? Officating was bad? That call on the fake FG was just horrendous. Hope Jimbaugh calls the league office on that one. We looked like we were looking ahead to the Steeler game honestly. The only time this year I can say this team wasn't focused on the task at hand.

king2am
12-11-2011, 07:09 PM
Hasn't been the case recently

Murray 12/38
SJax 17/64
Gore 24/88
McCoy 14/81
SJax 29/130
Rice 18/63
Mendenhall 13/32

but ya you should of certainly run the ball more, especially early when the offense wasn't doing anything and the defense had been on the field for 3/4 of the game

100% correct. As a unit the Cards D has been vastly improved recently. Found something that works over there, whatever it is. I think most of us have a healthy respect for the division - just one of those days where I feel like we were wearing Cards jerseys too.

Can't help division teams beat you.

fenikz
12-11-2011, 07:14 PM
I assume it's mostly just players understanding the playbook, early in the season Cardinals were constantly giving up big plays due to being out of position.

btw whats your beef with the fake FG call? was clearly whistled dead before the snap and probably only looked like it would work because no one was moving

also anyone know why when Rashad Johnson got called for unnecessary roughness(man up league he hit him with his arms/hands) that it overruled your illegal procedure penalty? Pretty sure those penalties are supposed to offset and you replay the down, instead you got a free 15 and a 1st

Ness
12-11-2011, 07:14 PM
And that's why this loss isnt soley on Alex. Yes, he played bad. But play-calling was bad. Pass-coverage was bad. Protection was bad. We gave up six sacks to the freakin Cards? Officating was bad? That call on the fake FG was just horrendous. Hope Jimbaugh calls the league office on that one. We looked like we were looking ahead to the Steeler game honestly. The only time this year I can say this team wasn't focused on the task at hand.

But if you have an accurate quarterback, you can still win the game. Even when protection isn't that great. The Cardinals were also tied with us with the same amount of sacks coming into the game. They aren't that bad. The playcalling on offense wasn't that bad, Alex just couldn't make plays because of his terrible throws for the most part. I saw some guys were open. Alex just didn't see them. The playcalling will always look bad when the quarterback can't make a play. They decided to put the game on Alex's shoulders and he choked. It's really that simple.

WhatWouldBillyBajemaDo?
12-11-2011, 07:18 PM
You're acting as if Harbaugh really wanted Alex Smith to be his starter. Let's face it, due to the lockout and the offseason issues with the NFL, Harbaugh didn't really have a choice. And they tried to get Matt Hasselbeck here. Harbaugh was stuck with Smith by default because he was the best guy available. So he had to roll with him.

Once again he had zero reason to bring back Alex Smith regardless of the lockout. There are countless examples of teams this off-season choosing to go in another direction with their QB i.e Seattle, Tennessee, Minnesota, etc . Carlos Rodgers wasn't our first choice at CB this off-season. Harbaugh sat down watched the films and saw things he believe where correctable with Alex Smith. It is hard to argue with the results when we have 10 wins when people spent the whole off-season arguing you can't win with Smith.


If Harbaugh was brought in to develop quarterbacks, why can't you see him picking a highly touted one?

And it's clear Gore's best days are behind him and he's fallen off the cliff. It's also clear that Harbaugh is trying to move this team to more of a passing ball club.

As I pointed out above Harbaugh has a lot of faith in his ability to coach up QB. Also the beat writers pointed out this off-season how Harbaugh has a great feel of the QB position. When he was with the Raiders he gave high draft grades to Romo and Garrard while pegging Joey Harrington as a 3rd round pick. Another factor is this offense is run oriented. Even when he had Andrew Luck, Luck only averaged 24 passes per game.

It starting to feel like it with Gore. I keep wanting to tell myself that he is being too patient but he just doesn't look like he has the same burst like he did in the middle of the season. He had one carry where he had 3 guys in front of him on a sweep and he only gained 3 yards on it. I thought he would be running free for awhile. But then again last time we doubted Gore he reeled off 5 straight 100 yard games.

binary
12-11-2011, 07:19 PM
The playcalling on offense wasn't that bad, Alex just couldn't make plays because of his terrible throws for the most part. I saw some guys were open. Alex just didn't see them. .

Where? I have no idea what you were watching dude, honestly. I didn't see guys open that Alex was throwing inaccurately to.

They put the game on Alex vs. NYG and we won, the difference was he actually had protection in that game. This team will only go as far as the oline.

49erNation85
12-11-2011, 07:21 PM
new qb time . don't resign him please! trade up for Luck.....

Ness
12-11-2011, 07:23 PM
Where? I have no idea what you were watching dude, honestly. I didn't see guys open that Alex was throwing inaccurately to.

They put the game on Alex vs. NYG and we won, the difference was he actually had protection in that game. This team will only go as far as the oline.

There was one third down play where Alex's terrible accuracy hurt him. It was a third down and an out pattern and Alex Smith couldn't hit Vernon Davis who beat his man by a step.

Or a throw to Kyle Williams on a third and long. It skipped the ground.

Protection isn't always going to be great. Steve Young didn't always have the best protection, especially later in his career, but he still made plays because he was accurate as hell.

Ness
12-11-2011, 07:23 PM
new qb time . don't resign him please! trade up for Luck.....

Honestly I wonder what it would take to get him. Would an entire draft do it?

WhatWouldBillyBajemaDo?
12-11-2011, 07:24 PM
I assume it's mostly just players understanding the playbook, early in the season Cardinals were constantly giving up big plays due to being out of position.

Do you feel that was the problem with the offense early on in the season as well? Because that has been my theory of why Kolb struggled before his injury. That he was handed too much of the playbook early on. Curious to hear your opinion on that (since I haven't had a chance to watch many Cards games) because I thought he was going to put a solid year together.

WhatWouldBillyBajemaDo?
12-11-2011, 07:27 PM
Honestly I wonder what it would take to get him. Would an entire draft do it?

Cleveland has inside edge on him with two first round picks. Like I said at the start of the off-season only way SF gets Luck is if they had three first round picks. Trade your 2nd and 3rd to move back into round 1. Then you have 2 2012 1st round picks and 2013 1st round pick to trade. But I can't see anybody being for that since every time it gets suggested around these parts of drafting a QB in the 1st round it gets shot down fast.

fenikz
12-11-2011, 07:29 PM
Do you feel that was the problem with the offense early on the season as well? Because that has been my theory of why has Kolb struggled before his injury was that he was handed too much of the playbook early on. Curious to hear your opinion on that (since I haven't had a chance to watch many Cards games) because I thought he was going to put a solid year together.

Oh definitely but also the O-line is only horrifically bad now instead of the worst O-Line in NFL history

If it makes you guys feel any better about having dumb fans, AZ fans have been all over Skelton's nuts the past 6 weeks and he has a 2:1 Turnover to TD ratio at the very least, but he is 4-1 :/

VAfy-ya
12-11-2011, 07:29 PM
Where? I have no idea what you were watching dude, honestly. I didn't see guys open that Alex was throwing inaccurately to.

They put the game on Alex vs. NYG and we won, the difference was he actually had protection in that game. This team will only go as far as the oline.

This. Alex played like ****. No disputing that. But you just don't skim over all the good he has done this year and focus on this one loss. Yeah, it sucked to watch but I don't recall anyone ever calling Alex a elite QB. His play this year has been better than most but I don't think anybody thought Alex wasn't capable of a bad game or that those days were behind him. You just hope and pray that this is the last one for awhile. Fans know Alex has issues and with those issues, your bound to have a ugly game or two.

Ness
12-11-2011, 07:30 PM
LOL @ Jim Harbaugh having an attitude with the reporters. When you lose like that Jim you don't get to play the Belicheck game with people. Answer the questions. Fans deserve better.

Ness
12-11-2011, 07:34 PM
This. Alex played like ****. No disputing that. But you just don't skim over all the good he has done this year and focus on this one loss. Yeah, it sucked to watch but I don't recall anyone ever calling Alex a elite QB. His play this year has been better than most but I don't think anybody thought Alex wasn't capable of a bad game or that those days were behind him. You just hope and pray that this is the last one for awhile. Fans know Alex has issues and with those issues, your bound to have a ugly game or two.

But you don't think we need to upgrade the position? It's just one bad game, but I can't remember Alex having three good games in a row or pass for over 300 yards and dominate a team from start to finish. This defense isn't the 2000 Ravens and we don't have Jamal Lewis to bulldoze over people. This won't cut it against Green Bay or New Orleans.

phlysac
12-11-2011, 07:34 PM
Fans deserve better.

Fans don't deserve to control the personality of their favorite team's coach during post-game interviews.

Ness
12-11-2011, 07:35 PM
Cleveland has inside edge on him with two first round picks. Like I said at the start of the off-season only way SF gets Luck is if they had three first round picks. Trade your 2nd and 3rd to move back into round 1. Then you have 2 2012 1st round picks and 2013 1st round pick to trade. But I can't see anybody being for that since every time it gets suggested around these parts of drafting a QB in the 1st round it gets shot down fast.

Can't you trade your entire draft this year and maybe some draft picks the following season though and get him? I can't see why the Colts wouldn't accept that. I'd rather have an entire team's draft this year plus next year's first rounder or whatever instead of two 1st round picks this year and maybe a few more draft selections this year and the following.

Ness
12-11-2011, 07:36 PM
Fans don't deserve to control the personality of their favorite team's coach during post-game interviews.

But they deserve honest answers don't you think?

WhatWouldBillyBajemaDo?
12-11-2011, 07:41 PM
Can't you trade your entire draft this year and maybe some draft picks the following season though and get him? I can't see why the Colts wouldn't accept that. I'd rather have an entire team's draft this year plus next year's first rounder or whatever instead of two 1st round picks this year and maybe a few more draft selections this year and the following.

1st round picks are more valuable due to the slotting system for contracts. Plus more value of 1st round picks compared to later round picks. But why would you want to give up a whole draft class for Luck? Furthest I would go is a 2012 1st, 2nd, and 2013 1st but since we are drafting so late can't see Indy taking that.

Would be better off trying to pull off a trade like ATL did with CLE and move up for Barkley or RG3. [EDIT- Just looked up the trade between ATL/CLE and ATL gave up 5 total picks including 2 1st so not sure I would go that route either] But I am a big fan of Colin and if Alex doesn't get the rumored extension, I would rather take my lumps with Colin because I think it would pay off later on down the road.

Ness
12-11-2011, 07:46 PM
Colin just looks like too much of a project. I don't see him doing anything. I like Matt Barkley. Maybe he can get it done. Throws a nice ball.

I'm really tired of these option/pistol/gimmick offense quarterbacks. Give me a traditional pro style pocket passer.

fenikz
12-11-2011, 07:48 PM
also anyone know why when Rashad Johnson got called for unnecessary roughness(man up league he hit him with his arms/hands) that it overruled your illegal procedure penalty? Pretty sure those penalties are supposed to offset and you replay the down, instead you got a free 15 and a 1st

bumping this, anyone know what happened here?

Ness
12-11-2011, 07:50 PM
Funny reading some of these comments on Matt Maiocco's site.

9ers are wining with their D. Not Alex Smith. He sucks as much now as he did when drafted. He has been asked to do the Trent Dilfer thing and not lose it for them. He by no means has helped this team. watched pass after pass miss the mark. He will sail a ball way over the receivers heads, or most of the time throw it at their feet. Smith continues to suck. Glad they made the playoffs. With him as QB it will be a early exit. Hopefully they don't offer him another contract. Been hoping that for years.


You all need to dammit just quit it with this beyond all support for below mediocre play. That q.b. no matter who he is or what his name happens to be is not a difference maker. Your defense gave the offense three turnovers early, they stayed on Arizona's side of the field all first half, stayed in the red zone. Yet your q.b. could do nothing with it... They then give the boy the ball back with 2 minutes left to only get in field goal range and he's running around like a chicken with its head cut off instead of getting the ball out of his hand. You got to have game to beat good teams in the NFL. You've got to be a difference maker. The boy's game is weak.


I'm a 9er fan. have been for 15+ years. but as long as we have him as a QB we will never go any where. He absolutely sucks. The play calling sucked the receivers sucked. Carlos Rogers stunk it up today, With them alligator arms on a pass to Larry that if he lays out he could have knocked it down, then to stop on a play when it wasn't over. And his goal line play on the other score like with his crap on the Larry catch he looked like he was afraid he was gonna get hit by a team mate so he played scared. 1 and done. :-(


Can the 49ers amnesty Alex Smith? I know it wasn't all his fault but today they needed him to actually win a game and he just can't do it. It might hurt some peoples feelings but it needs to be said. The 49ers will never compete with the big boys with Alex Smith. His arm is below average and he can't throw on the run very well. It appears he throws at recievers feet when he does for the most part.

Borat
12-11-2011, 07:51 PM
also anyone know why when Rashad Johnson got called for unnecessary roughness(man up league he hit him with his arms/hands) that it overruled your illegal procedure penalty? Pretty sure those penalties are supposed to offset and you replay the down, instead you got a free 15 and a 1st

It was called correctly. The personal foul supercedes the 5-yarder. It happened to the Niners a couple of years ago.

fenikz
12-11-2011, 07:56 PM
but the play shouldn't have occurred in the 1st place, how can you penalize a play that's not allowed to happen

PatrickWillis
12-11-2011, 07:58 PM
A sad performance all-around but the blame will, of course, fall squarely on Alex Smith even though he was our best offensive player today. He was still off, just like the last Cardinals game, but he threw what should have been a touchdown to Ginn early on and was dodging tons of pressure all day.

Chin up, though, fellow fans. Every good team has had a let-down game this year--the Saints got dominated by the Rams, the Ravens lost to the Jaguars and Seahawks, etc. Our let-down game wasn't nearly as bad as those.

Youhave to be kididng me. He had about 10-15 passes that were off target, caused at least 3 sacks because his movement within the pocket was atrocious. Are you really that serious? The best offensive player was Crabtree and Gore you idiot. How ANYONE could say Alex had a better day than Gore is truly beyond me.


You turds actually thought Captain slow release was a top 10 player. Yeah I'm looking at you Phlysac. What you got to say now, boy?

JordanTaber
12-11-2011, 07:59 PM
Where? I have no idea what you were watching dude, honestly. I didn't see guys open that Alex was throwing inaccurately to.

They put the game on Alex vs. NYG and we won, the difference was he actually had protection in that game. This team will only go as far as the oline.

Of course you didn't. You were sitting at home watching from your frickin TV set.

If guys weren't getting open, you know whose fault that is? The offensive staff's. If NE can get their turds wide open, so can everyone else. And if you're blaming the coaching staff...that marks yet ANOTHER staff that is to blame for Alex's failures. At what point are you going to stop and just admit Alex might be the problem here?

PatrickWillis
12-11-2011, 07:59 PM
This. Alex played like ****. No disputing that. But you just don't skim over all the good he has done this year and focus on this one loss. Yeah, it sucked to watch but I don't recall anyone ever calling Alex a elite QB. His play this year has been better than most but I don't think anybody thought Alex wasn't capable of a bad game or that those days were behind him. You just hope and pray that this is the last one for awhile. Fans know Alex has issues and with those issues, your bound to have a ugly game or two.

Actually, plenty of posters here called him a top 10 guy before today. It was one of his worst games since his rookie year.

PatrickWillis
12-11-2011, 08:01 PM
Receivers were open. Crabtree beat Peterson 2 times that I recall where it was overthrown. VD had a pass skip to him that I recall where he got separation. There was also a play against cover 2 where Crabtree was open down the far sideline and Alex underthrew it, lucky it wasn't picked.

He also caused 3 of the sacks at the least on his own with his horrendous movement within the pocket.

The fanboys need to stop with this top 10 nonsense.

VAfy-ya
12-11-2011, 08:02 PM
But you don't think we need to upgrade the position? It's just one bad game, but I can't remember Alex having three good games in a row or pass for over 300 yards and dominate a team from start to finish. This defense isn't the 2000 Ravens and we don't have Jamal Lewis to bulldoze over people. This won't cut it against Green Bay or New Orleans.

For his first year in the offense, Alex has exceeded my expextations. Me personally, I never thought Alex was a good fit for the WCO but Jimbaugh has made it work. If Harbaugh wants him back, Im all for it.

Of course he can't have a game like this in the playoffs. Hopefully he wont. One awful game out of 13 is a pretty good ratio that I'll take for the time being. But honestly, I think if we would have pulled this one out, no one would be all livid with the "Alex sucks" stuff. The loss just magnifys it. Everything was just off. Delaine drops another critical ball. I did not like the play-calling. And I read Edwards wasn't talking to reporters after the game because he was mad about the lack of snaps after he was asking for rest to get healthy just a week ago, wtf. This just didn't look like were interesting playing or matching their instensity.

PatrickWillis
12-11-2011, 08:08 PM
For his first year in the offense, Alex has exceeded my expextations. Me personally, I never thought Alex was a good fit for the WCO but Jimbaugh has made it work. If Harbaugh wants him back, Im all for it.

Of course he can't have a game like this in the playoffs. Hopefully he wont. One awful game out of 13 is a pretty good ratio that I'll take for the time being. But honestly, I think if we would have pulled this one out, no one would be all livid with the "Alex sucks" stuff. The loss just magnifys it. Everything was just off. Delaine drops another critical ball. I did not like the play-calling. And I read Edwards wasn't talking to reporters after the game because he was mad about the lack of snaps after he was asking for rest to get healthy just a week ago, wtf. This just didn't look like were interesting playing or matching their instensity.

He's had 3 awful games. Detroit, this one, and the first game against AZ. Then there's games like the Browns and redskins where you could say "below average" but probably not awful.

And there's not any games where you could say "exceptional". Perhaps the eagles game if you are a homer.

Madirishman
12-11-2011, 08:23 PM
Had a great day but it was obvious the Niners coaching staff decided to mail this one in, as they've already clinched the division. It was the Cardinals' Super Bowl' and they got all the breaks; Congrats to them for wanting it more today. We'll be enjoying the playoffs in January when they are all sitting at home watching! Niners had every chance to win this game and didn't do it; a complete opposite of how they've played this season. Alex didn't look great at all but he shares the blame with others who didn't make enough plays to win this game. It wouldn't have taken much but they played down to their competition.

Time to regroup and make up for it with the Steelers coming to the Stick nest Monday night.

JordanTaber
12-11-2011, 08:32 PM
For his first year in the offense, Alex has exceeded my expextations. Me personally, I never thought Alex was a good fit for the WCO but Jimbaugh has made it work. If Harbaugh wants him back, Im all for it.

Of course he can't have a game like this in the playoffs. Hopefully he wont. One awful game out of 13 is a pretty good ratio that I'll take for the time being. But honestly, I think if we would have pulled this one out, no one would be all livid with the "Alex sucks" stuff. The loss just magnifys it. Everything was just off. Delaine drops another critical ball. I did not like the play-calling. And I read Edwards wasn't talking to reporters after the game because he was mad about the lack of snaps after he was asking for rest to get healthy just a week ago, wtf. This just didn't look like were interesting playing or matching their instensity.

WCO?

What WCO?

Nobody in the NFL runs the WCO, least of all, the 49ers.

binary
12-11-2011, 08:35 PM
Had a great day but it was obvious the Niners coaching staff decided to mail this one in, as they've already clinched the division. It was the Cardinals' Super Bowl' and they got all the breaks; Congrats to them for wanting it more today. We'll be enjoying the playoffs in January when they are all sitting at home watching! Niners had every chance to win this game and didn't do it; a complete opposite of how they've played this season. Alex didn't look great at all but he shares the blame with others who didn't make enough plays to win this game. It wouldn't have taken much but they played down to their competition.

Time to regroup and make up for it with the Steelers coming to the Stick nest Monday night.

word. You saw it live right?

Borat
12-11-2011, 08:46 PM
but the play shouldn't have occurred in the 1st place, how can you penalize a play that's not allowed to happen

Because it was a personal foul. Doesn't matter if there was a play or not. A personal foul can occur at any point.

Imagine a DE jumps offsides, then the ref blows the play dead. If the DE were to continue playing and crush the QB, he's still getting a personal foul right.

Madirishman
12-11-2011, 09:00 PM
word. You saw it live right?

Yep. Pretty boring game overall. For the first time in my 7 years of going, they were a majority of Niners fans there. Last year it was 60/40 but today it was AT LEAST 55/45 in favor of the Niners and they throw up that performance. Disappointing.

VAfy-ya
12-11-2011, 09:14 PM
Yep. Pretty boring game overall. For the first time in my 7 years of going, they were a majority of Niners fans there. Last year it was 60/40 but today it was AT LEAST 55/45 in favor of the Niners and they throw up that performance. Disappointing.

Shame you had to sit through a performance like that. Did Ginn look as bad in person as he did in front of the flat-screen? He doesn't deserve another snap as a WR. I would rather have Swain in there and K-10 has already proved he deserves more targets. Just awful play from alot of players today.

hawkeye123
12-11-2011, 09:28 PM
I also went to the game and had a blast even though it was a sloppy performance.

The majority were definitely niner fans which was cool.

Madirishman
12-11-2011, 09:59 PM
Shame you had to sit through a performance like that. Did Ginn look as bad in person as he did in front of the flat-screen? He doesn't deserve another snap as a WR. I would rather have Swain in there and K-10 has already proved he deserves more targets. Just awful play from alot of players today.

I was talking out loud about how they shouldn't script any plays for him at WR, just use him as a returner. The Niners fans around me all agreed Then he immediately screws up the next play as a WR, losing track of the ball in the air, and then follows it up with his dynamic return. LOL. K-10 tore up AZ last time and they should have let him do it again today. He was a Sun Devil and would have loved to have a career game against AZ today. Oh well.

Madirishman
12-11-2011, 10:01 PM
I also went to the game and had a blast even though it was a sloppy performance.

The majority were definitely niner fans which was cool.

Largest percentage I've ever seen but there are always tons of Niner fans there.

Madirishman
12-11-2011, 10:48 PM
I just re-watched this game that I taped to see difference from my point of view from the stands. The team on TV does look a little more inspired then they did live, Alex still looked bad but the receivers dropping and not locating balls looked worse, and the refs really had some bad calls and untimely calls that cost the Niners. The late whistle that cost them the fake punt TD, and then the subsequent broken play where the Cards get a long fluke TD was a HUGE 14 point swing in the game. That being said, the Niners really dominated this game for the first 3 quarters and just played flat on offense the last quarter. There were many plays that they didn't execute throughout the game they normally would. Not sure if was lack of focus or just an off-day for them but they had every chance to win (and dominate this game) and just didn't do it. Bleh.

hawkeye123
12-11-2011, 11:39 PM
My biggest issue with the niners today and the last few weeks is scoring field goals and not touchdowns. They'll drive down the field, get to red zone, get stuffed twice and then try a fade throw to Edwards or Ginn and fail.

To compete with the Packers and Saints in the postseason the niners are really going to need to score touchdowns in the red zone.

Ness
12-11-2011, 11:57 PM
My biggest issue with the niners today and the last few weeks is scoring field goals and not touchdowns. They'll drive down the field, get to red zone, get stuffed twice and then try a fade throw to Edwards or Ginn and fail.

To compete with the Packers and Saints in the postseason the niners are really going to need to score touchdowns in the red zone.

That's where the quarterback limitation comes into play. When you don't have one you usually can't convert third downs and have trouble scoring in the redzone.

Ness
12-12-2011, 12:00 AM
WCO?

What WCO?

Nobody in the NFL runs the WCO, least of all, the 49ers.

Teams run certain aspects of the WCO, but not Bill Walsh's. That is long since dead.

PatrickWillis
12-12-2011, 12:41 AM
http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/qb
Football Outsiders has Alex 11th in DVOA

and 14th in DYAR:


IMO he has played at a top 15 level this season and I think Football Outsiders QB system pegs it more accurately compared to ESPN QBR. I think ESPN's weighs sacks too heavily against a QB and I don't like their interpretation of "Clutch Weight."

I would disagree. Many times a sack is the QB's fault for not knowing the hot read and holding on to it too long. Alex is properly dinged when it comes to that aspect.

And the passing portion from the ESPN system still has him at "only average".


Football outsiders is a joke. They ding receivers based on a "targets/yards" system, without any context on how well thrown said passes are. Put Jerry Rice with Alex Smith and I bet you someone like Jordy nelson would have a better DVOA than him.

PatrickWillis
12-12-2011, 12:48 AM
I defended him through the Martz debacle (firing Martz, losing Linehan, settling with Raye.) I was wrong too because he truly proved TO ME that he was a clown of a coach early into 2010. However, I wasn't a huge Martz fan, doubt I ever will be, and I gave Sing the benefit of the doubt.


I call it how I see it. I was wrong in my defense of him. It was a benefit of doubt I shouldn't have given. I trusted he would surround himself with capable people, and he didn't.



Without 2nd guesses I would take...

Aaron Rodgers
Tom Brady
Drew Brees
Ben Roethlisberger
Philip Rivers
Peyton Manning (healthy)
Eli Manning

With consideration for fit in a Harbaugh system, I would include Alex Smith in a group of...

Tony Romo
Jay Cutler
Matt Schaub
Matthew Stafford
Matt Ryan
Cam Newton.


But thus far in 2011 (and perhaps into the future) he is performing better than several of those guys.

Where is Vick? Flacco? Palmer? Hell, Matt Moore is better.

Schaub is miles ahead of him, as well as Romo. Take a look at their mechanics and footwork, then Alex's, and come back to me saying with a straight face that Alex is in their league.

PatrickWillis
12-12-2011, 01:15 AM
http://i.imgur.com/aG5pD.png

It was really because your posts were so awful and I got tired of you not knowing what you were talking about. Had nothing to do with getting butthurt, more so than it had to do with you being obnoxious. When you have to resort to insulting someone to debate a point, you've already lost the argument. That's the real joke, FRIENDO.


Believe what you want to believe though.

I don't lose debates. People claim I lose debates when I "attack them", when really, it's the internet, and the attack should not bother you or discredit the argument at hand.

It's a cowards way out.

binary
12-12-2011, 01:38 AM
I don't lose debates. People claim I lose debates when I "attack them", when really, it's the internet, and the attack should not bother you or discredit the argument at hand.

It's a cowards way out.

Well, aside from being incredibly abrasive, you let your emotions get the best of you when interpreting and you often fail to fully comprehend what people are saying. You then formulate your own opinion of what you've read, and then attack the poster and their pseudo-opinion that you've conjured up. This will never win you any debate, it just makes you look childlike. This is why most people ignore you and you've been banned repeatedly by so many good sites.

For instance, Ness and I argue over Alex a crapload, but he'll never take what I say out of context or exaggerate the words of other people. This is simply part of being mature. It's not the attacks that discredit you, they only make you intolerable and easy to ignore, what discredits you is your inability to calmly interpret what people say.

PatrickWillis
12-12-2011, 01:41 AM
Well, aside from being incredibly abrasive, you let your emotions get the best of you when interpreting and you often fail to fully comprehend what people are saying. You then formulate your own opinion of what you've read, and then attack the poster and their pseudo-opinion that you've conjured up. This will never win you any debate, it just makes you look childlike. This is why most people ignore you and you've been banned repeatedly by so many good sites.

For instance, Ness and I argue over Alex a crapload, but he'll never take what I say out of context or exaggerate the words of other people. This is simply part of being mature. It's not the attacks that discredit you, they only make you intolerable and easy to ignore, what discredits you is your inability to calmly interpret what people say.

I exaggerate in sarcastic fashion laughing at your own stupidity. Sorry if you can't differentiate a debate point and sarcasm. Thats your mothers fault for smoking crack while you were in the womb, thus resulting in an IQ that is far too low to debate football on the internet.

PatrickWillis
12-12-2011, 01:41 AM
And remember....Thank God for Alex!

binary
12-12-2011, 01:49 AM
I exaggerate in sarcastic fashion laughing at your own stupidity. Sorry if you can't differentiate a debate point and sarcasm. Thats your mothers fault for smoking crack while you were in the womb, thus resulting in an IQ that is far too low to debate football on the internet.

bwahaha, ok buddy.

PatrickWillis
12-12-2011, 01:57 AM
bwahaha, ok buddy.

Sorry you are a bit sensitive. It's okay...many posters on the internet suffer from this. You can't let loose and throw sarcasm back into people's faces, you need to resort to whining about the "maturutiez" level of the posts. Lighten. The. Hell. Up. Jesus christ.



And thank god for Alex!

abaddon41_80
12-12-2011, 06:12 AM
The hell? He wasn't our best offensive player today. It was Frank Gore by a mile. The Cardinals are terrible against the run, don't know why we let it go so early when it was clear Alex wasn't going to win us the game.

Gore had two good runs and was invisible for the rest of the game. 57 of his 74 yards came on those two runs. That means he had 8 carries for 17 yards outside of two runs. Gore has been bad for a month or so.

Smith made enough plays for us to win the game, though he also had quite a few terrible passes, but with the way the offensive line played and the receivers dropping passes or just failing to even find the ball it was amazing he didn't play worse. You said earlier it is clear that Alex Smith can't carry the team when nothing is clicking on offense and I somewhat agree, though when nothing is clicking; i.e. the running game sucks, the offensive line is horrible, the receivers can't do anything; no QB other than Peyton Manning can carry a team. Smith has shown he can carry the team with no running game as long as the offensive line gives him some time.

But you don't think we need to upgrade the position? It's just one bad game, but I can't remember Alex having three good games in a row or pass for over 300 yards and dominate a team from start to finish. This defense isn't the 2000 Ravens and we don't have Jamal Lewis to bulldoze over people. This won't cut it against Green Bay or New Orleans.

The Saints just barely beat the Titans, and they lost convincingly to the Rams.

Madirishman
12-12-2011, 08:53 AM
New Orleans has looked vulnerable on the road; much morseo that at home. Green Bay just looks like the best team in the NFC (if not the league). I do give the Niners a good chance to beat the Saints in a game at the Stick as well as in a cold-weather-ground-and-clock-control game at Lambeau Field.

The trading TD's for FG thing has been an issue all year but they've won games despite doing this. Elite teams will make them pay.

VAfy-ya
12-12-2011, 10:17 AM
WCO?

What WCO?

Nobody in the NFL runs the WCO, least of all, the 49ers.

Okay smart-ass, the Jim Harbaugh Offense then. Happy? Where did all these morons come from all of a sudden? Lose a game and its troll season around here.

Ness
12-12-2011, 02:41 PM
Gore had two good runs and was invisible for the rest of the game. 57 of his 74 yards came on those two runs. That means he had 8 carries for 17 yards outside of two runs. Gore has been bad for a month or so.

Smith made enough plays for us to win the game, though he also had quite a few terrible passes, but with the way the offensive line played and the receivers dropping passes or just failing to even find the ball it was amazing he didn't play worse. You said earlier it is clear that Alex Smith can't carry the team when nothing is clicking on offense and I somewhat agree, though when nothing is clicking; i.e. the running game sucks, the offensive line is horrible, the receivers can't do anything; no QB other than Peyton Manning can carry a team. Smith has shown he can carry the team with no running game as long as the offensive line gives him some time.



The Saints just barely beat the Titans, and they lost convincingly to the Rams.

But they beat them. Brees scored twice in the final few minutes of the game if I remember correctly.

Speaking of Brees, he can certainly carry a team when nothing else isn't working. So can Aaron Rodgers.

Ness
12-12-2011, 02:43 PM
New Orleans has looked vulnerable on the road; much morseo that at home. Green Bay just looks like the best team in the NFC (if not the league). I do give the Niners a good chance to beat the Saints in a game at the Stick as well as in a cold-weather-ground-and-clock-control game at Lambeau Field.

The trading TD's for FG thing has been an issue all year but they've won games despite doing this. Elite teams will make them pay.

The thing that worries me is I don't know if the redzone issues can be fixed. I'm sure a lot of it comes down to execution, but then I'm sure a certain amount of it just comes down to talent. It's been an issue all year long and there really isn't any excuse for lack of progress. Same with third downs either.

binary
12-12-2011, 02:46 PM
Speaking of Brees, he can certainly carry a team when nothing else isn't working. So can Aaron Rodgers.

Yeah, those guys are special, especially Rodgers. The Packers are making this season a lot less fun.

I hope Ben plays, MNF is gonna be sick. They will stop the run so it will be another good test.

binary
12-12-2011, 02:51 PM
The thing that worries me is I don't know if the redzone issues can be fixed. I'm sure a lot of it comes down to execution, but then I'm sure a certain amount of it just comes down to talent. It's been an issue all year long and there really isn't any excuse for lack of progress. Same with third downs either.

Well when Jimmy Raye was here, the redzone O was pretty good. Now it's just weird. It was crappy to see how easy Arizona scored in there, they just ran a little screen and it was over...yet we are stuck running QB sweeps and odd rollouts.

I still think the back-shoulder to Braylon could work if him and Alex can get it down.

VAfy-ya
12-12-2011, 03:11 PM
The thing that worries me is I don't know if the redzone issues can be fixed. I'm sure a lot of it comes down to execution, but then I'm sure a certain amount of it just comes down to talent. It's been an issue all year long and there really isn't any excuse for lack of progress. Same with third downs either.

Honestly, I think Roman and Jimbaugh have gotten a little too "cute" in the red-zone. Fade passes are not us. We need to get back mauling people in the run game. Heavy sets and play-action off of that. I get that Harbs wanted to open up the offense more and show teams we could throw it around but that's not what got us off to the great start. Got to get back to power running and letting that spring board the passing game. The O-Line seems to have regressed and they need to pick it up as well.

Madirishman
12-12-2011, 04:17 PM
The thing that worries me is I don't know if the redzone issues can be fixed. I'm sure a lot of it comes down to execution, but then I'm sure a certain amount of it just comes down to talent. It's been an issue all year long and there really isn't any excuse for lack of progress. Same with third downs either.

I see more potential for them to fix the red zone issues than the 3rd down issues. Alex has been pretty good in the redzone but the numbers are a little misleading because he hasn't taken a ton of chances near the goalline. 3rd downs come to execution and are often the downs where Alex is getting pressure and he plays his worst. They just have to get more aggressive just outside the red zone and take come shots or better use their personnel when they get in the red zone (such as throwing a jump ball or back shoulder fade to VD instead of Ginn for example).

I still can't believe that the Niners went with 2 pass play roll outs on 3rd and 1 and 4th and 1 (with plenty of time remaining) on their last drive to end the game yesterday. Yuck.

binary
12-12-2011, 04:28 PM
Third downs are tough when they can't run the ball, usually that means third and longgggg....especially when they are getting penalties.

PatrickWillis
12-12-2011, 04:29 PM
Third downs are tough when they can't run the ball, usually that means third and longgggg....especially when they are getting penalties.

Except Gore had 8 for 72. So we were running the ball effectively. Next.

abaddon41_80
12-12-2011, 04:34 PM
He actually had 10 for 72, but 57 of those came on two carries. We did not run the ball effectively

PatrickWillis
12-12-2011, 04:37 PM
He actually had 10 for 72, but 57 of those came on two carries. We did not run the ball effectively

Yeah, those 2 don't count, man.

binary
12-12-2011, 04:45 PM
He actually had 10 for 72, but 57 of those came on two carries. We did not run the ball effectively

yeah there was definitely trouble with a consistent ground game, no doubt about it. This team gets in a LOT of third and longs, whether its' a penalty or a sack given up, or even negative runs/passes (That Delanie screen, ugh), when the other team is getting pressure we just fold in all aspects. If we can get protection like we did in the Giants game, we will be alright....one can only hope.

abaddon41_80
12-12-2011, 05:09 PM
Yeah, those 2 don't count, man.

Two big runs with 19 bad ones =/= running the ball effectively

PatrickWillis
12-12-2011, 05:10 PM
Two big runs with 19 bad ones =/= running the ball effectively

19 all bad? Now we're getting into hyperbole. Gore was getting a few 4 and 5 yard gainers.

abaddon41_80
12-12-2011, 06:35 PM
That is why Gore had 8 carries for 15 yards outside of his two big runs.

PatrickWillis
12-12-2011, 06:48 PM
That is why Gore had 8 carries for 15 yards outside of his two big runs.

And some of them were losses for yards. And some of them were 3,4,5 yard gains. Lol.

abaddon41_80
12-12-2011, 06:53 PM
Six of Gore's 10 carries went for two or less yards. Four of Hunter's eight went for two of less yards. We did not run the ball effectively

PatrickWillis
12-12-2011, 07:14 PM
Six of Gore's 10 carries went for two or less yards. Four of Hunter's eight went for two of less yards. We did not run the ball effectively

Yards per carry says otherwise. But yes, next time, instead of Gore going for 10-72, he needs to go 25 for 100 and all of them being 4 yard runs. Damn you Frank...not helping this excellent QB out.

abaddon41_80
12-12-2011, 07:42 PM
Yards per carry says otherwise. But yes, next time, instead of Gore going for 10-72, he needs to go 25 for 100 and all of them being 4 yard runs. Damn you Frank...not helping this excellent QB out.

I would much rather have an RB go 25 for 100 with all of them being four yards then him having 15 for 100 with one 80 yard run.

PatrickWillis
12-12-2011, 07:45 PM
I would much rather have an RB go 25 for 100 with all of them being four yards then him having 15 for 100 with one 80 yard run.

Then you would HATE Adrian peterson as your running back.

PatrickWillis
12-12-2011, 07:49 PM
This is what is has come to. Blaming Gore, Hunter and the o-line for not getting "consistent" yards. Ever thought maybe it's cause they were blitzing the eff out of us? Because Alex Smith is very sub par under duress? Nah.....COULDN'T BE THAT. NO WAY.

Verloren
12-12-2011, 08:40 PM
Okay smart-ass, the Jim Harbaugh Offense then. Happy? Where did all these morons come from all of a sudden? Lose a game and its troll season around here.

I'm starting to think people from 49ers.com are coming here now.

binary
12-12-2011, 10:57 PM
I'm starting to think people from 49ers.com are coming here now.

lol, it's rejects/banned guys from news.com (mostly going crazy over Alex, as you probably figured), but that is a great site with a really cool group of members...the people there are freaking hilarious, provides laughs like none other.

Ness
12-13-2011, 12:50 AM
lol, it's rejects/banned guys from news.com (mostly going crazy over Alex, as you probably figured), but that is a great site with a really cool group of members...the people there are freaking hilarious, provides laughs like none other.

Oh so that's what it is. I figured it was probably people that have been banned from either the main site or somewhere else.

Trolls gotta roll. Go figure.

binary
12-13-2011, 02:50 AM
Trolls gotta roll. Go figure.

I dunno if it's necessarily trolling as much as it is being disturbingly obsessed with one player. Alex will never be great, most of us get it, but most of us also see there's no point in obsessing over it; it's quite easy to recognize circumstance, especially this offseason. I actually agree with some of the observations regarding Alex's shortcomings , most of us realize this stuff already.

I'm not thrilled about Alex as our QB, but I can recognize when he's been playing well and I'm thankful as heck we didn't end up with any of the rejects that were out there. I would never let one player ruin my enthusiasm for this team though, this season has been way too much fun and has me looking forward to each week for once. That Giants game blew my mind, I'm hoping for a repeat performance.

Borat
12-13-2011, 08:46 AM
Yeah, I stopped debating about Alex Smith years ago.

Madirishman
12-13-2011, 09:24 AM
Troll, troll, troll, troll, TROLL! smh