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View Full Version : The Complicated Peyton Manning Situation


BeerBaron
12-07-2011, 09:39 AM
First, read this:
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/12/07/colts-cant-pay-and-trade-peyton/

Basically, Peyton is owed $28 million by the Colts before the league year begins, meaning they cannot trade him without paying him that. (Trades can't happen until the new league year since it's after the deadline.)

And if the Colts pay him that and them promptly trade him, they will take a cap hit of $38.3 million.

So that option is out.

However, if the Colts pay and keep him, they will be stuck with him for 2 seasons, as trading him or cutting him in the first year would cost them that $38 million, and even in the 2nd year, that number drops only to $28 million.

So just what the hell do the Colts do? If they keep him and are stuck with him for 2 years, there's not way they can select Luck. The #1 pick riding the bench for 2 seasons? Not going to happen. I think Luck would pull an Eli/Elway to avoid that. Additionally, keeping Peyton means that the Colts would be in a "win now" mode, so they'd more than likely select a non-QB with that pick, or try to trade it.

I think what happens depends on what the Colts do with their front office after this potentially winless season. If Polian is kept around, I see the team sticking with Peyton and using their pick on someone else, possibly after trading it.

But if a full house cleaning is in order, as it should be, start fresh with Luck. Cut Peyton before he's owed the money and move on.

At that point, a team like the Redskins or Seahawks should be all over Peyton.

Thoughts?

Shane P. Hallam
12-07-2011, 09:44 AM
Can't the Colts opt out of Manning's deal before February? I seem to remember that being a clause

jth1331
12-07-2011, 09:47 AM
I honestly don't see any way the Colts will cut/trade Peyton Manning. The backlash would be unreal IMO.
What Peyton SHOULD do if it were me is retire. You just had surgeries on your freakin neck that the doctors couldn't tell if he'd recover or not, and I believe one was kind of experimental. On his neck. He's made his money, he's made his legacy, retire before anything else happens.

That said, he's going to come back and force the Colts to not take Luck, and theoretically ruin the value of what the Colts could get. I'd imagine teams would give up 2 1st round picks and 2 round picks to select Luck. The thought knowing the Colts can't take Luck? Well, that value just decreased. If I were the Redskins, I'd absolutely trade 2 1st rounders and a 2nd for him.
This gives the Colts the ability to add the depth they desperately need.

Shane P. Hallam
12-07-2011, 09:51 AM
I honestly don't see any way the Colts will cut/trade Peyton Manning. The backlash would be unreal IMO.
What Peyton SHOULD do if it were me is retire.

If Peyton is medically cleared, why should he retire?

Jvig43
12-07-2011, 09:51 AM
Why would he ever retire and not see the money he is going to get? The whole Colts situation is getting really sad really quickly. Nice write up BB.

San Diego Chicken
12-07-2011, 09:53 AM
I think it's nearly impossible to not go full rebuild. Clearly the Colts were going nowhere even with Peyton.

AntoinCD
12-07-2011, 09:53 AM
i don't see how you don't take a potential franchise qb on the vague hope that your 84 year old qb with serious neck issues is ever able to play again. nothing they trade that pick for would help the team if they're still starting crap like painter and orlovsky next year.

I agree 100% with this. Even if Peyton shows the Colts by January/early February that he is back to 100% and by trading the first overall pick they could restock and have another run at a few Superbowls it would still be a mistake because it is a short term approach that only has a slight chance to pay off.

Bill Polian really has no choice but to bite the bullet and cut Manning

jth1331
12-07-2011, 09:54 AM
If Peyton is medically cleared, why should he retire?

3 neck surgeries in 19 months, including a recent neck fusion surgery where he has shown weakness in his arm from his nerves.
Yeah, he might be medically cleared by team doctors that want him to play.
I'm sure Jim Brown was cleared to continue playing football, but why risk not being able to walk 10 years from now to play 1-2 more years?
Seriously, I know any injury can happen in football, but Peyton Manning needs to take extra precautions. It wouldn't be worth it to me.

BeerBaron
12-07-2011, 09:54 AM
Can't the Colts opt out of Manning's deal before February? I seem to remember that being a clause

Well that's just it, they have 2 choices:

1.) Cut/Opt Out/Make Peyton no longer on the team before that money becomes due.

2.) Pay the money, get stuck with him for the next 2 years at least.

AntoinCD
12-07-2011, 09:57 AM
Well that's just it, they have 2 choices:

1.) Cut/Opt Out/Make Peyton no longer on the team before that money becomes due.

2.) Pay the money, get stuck with him for the next 2 years at least.

If they do the second option then it is very likely you could see a possible power play from Luck. It has already been widely speculated that he may pull an Eli Manning and he has been in contact with Archie Manning

TheFinisher
12-07-2011, 10:02 AM
Why can't they just draft Luck #1 and have him sit and learn behind Peyton for a year?

BeerBaron
12-07-2011, 10:06 AM
Why can't they just draft Luck #1 and have him sit and learn behind Peyton for a year?

It's not a year. If the Colts choose to pay Peyton this money, they cannot cut or trade him in the next 2 years without taking a HUGE cap hit. Like, more than a quarter of the entire cap.

It's Luck OR Peyton at this point. I see no way they could keep both.

Additionally, I feel that Peyton will have absolutely say over where his next team is. What better way to ensure that happens than to become a free agent?

bigbluedefense
12-07-2011, 10:14 AM
I really really hope the Colts don't get Andrew Luck.

I just think Bill Polian is absolute evil, and I'd hate for that slimeball to slimeball his way to getting Andrew Luck.

He's just the biggest jerk in football. He ruined the sport I love, I can't stand him. He shouldn't be rewarded for tanking.

If there is a football God out there, justice has to be served here somehow someway.

lasse
12-07-2011, 10:15 AM
if i were GM of the Colts, and i guess everybody is happy i'm not, i would:
1.trade the pick for a fortune
2.trade manning as long as he is worth sth
3.draft one of the other pretty good qbs in this draft(rg3, barkley)
4.have a boatload of picks to rebuild this sorry excuse for a team

but as i said, i am a madden gm :)

TheFinisher
12-07-2011, 10:16 AM
Well then let him sit for 2 years, Luck and his father should check their egos this is Peyton Manning we're talking about. I don't care how hyped up of a prospect he is, there's no way the Colts are more competitive over the next 2 seasons with Andrew Luck taking snaps instead of Peyton Manning. Rodgers sat behind Favre for like 4 years and it was a flawless transition for GB, why wouldn't you want to stay competitive?

Jvig43
12-07-2011, 10:16 AM
I really really hope the Colts don't get Andrew Luck.

I just think Bill Polian is absolute evil, and I'd hate for that slimeball to slimeball his way to getting Andrew Luck.

He's just the biggest jerk in football. He ruined the sport I love, I can't stand him. He shouldn't be rewarded for tanking.

If there is a football God out there, justice has to be served here somehow someway.

I mean I feel like it is in a way. We all thought the Colts one way or the other would get a ton of draft picks for either Manning, or the number one pick. Now the only way they get picks is if they trade the first rounder away and stick with an aging Manning, who is past his prime and coming off a serious injury.

Or I guess just take the cap hit.......

Actually I'm changing my vote to Pollian changing some rule to get out of this situation.

BeerBaron
12-07-2011, 10:19 AM
Well then let him sit for 2 years, Luck and his father should check their egos this is Peyton Manning we're talking about. I don't care how hyped up of a prospect he is, there's no way the Colts are more competitive over the next 2 seasons with Andrew Luck taking snaps instead of Peyton Manning. Rodgers sat behind Favre for like 4 years and it was a flawless transition for GB, why wouldn't you want to stay competitive?

Again, it's not that easy. If you keep Peyton, you are saying that you are in a win now mode. They'll trade that pick or use it on help for Manning to try and win another Superbowl. If Peyton stays, the Colts don't draft Luck.

And Luck won't want to go there. Sit for two years? In this era of football? Not going to happen.

AntoinCD
12-07-2011, 10:20 AM
Well then let him sit for 2 years, Luck and his father should check their egos this is Peyton Manning we're talking about. I don't care how hyped up of a prospect he is, there's no way the Colts are more competitive over the next 2 seasons with Andrew Luck taking snaps instead of Peyton Manning. Rodgers sat behind Favre for like 4 years and it was a flawless transition for GB, why wouldn't you want to stay competitive?

So what happens if Manning declines over that period or gets hurt and Luck becomes a much better option by say week 4 next year. Then you are paying Manning a **** ton of money to be a backup QB.

As for the Rodgers comparison. Favre was always healthy and younger than Manning is now. Manning will be coming back from serious neck surgery and be 38. Why keep an aging, injured player at such a high salary?

bigbluedefense
12-07-2011, 10:23 AM
I mean I feel like it is in a way. We all thought the Colts one way or the other would get a ton of draft picks for either Manning, or the number one pick. Now the only way they get picks is if they trade the first rounder away and stick with an aging Manning, who is past his prime and coming off a serious injury.

Or I guess just take the cap hit.......

Actually I'm changing my vote to Pollian changing some rule to get out of this situation.

He'll probably create the "do-over rule", where if you draft a qb who winds up being mediocre, you get a do-over qb to make up for it. But this only applies to teams who already have franchise qbs, thus making it only benefit the Colts.

Sloopy
12-07-2011, 10:23 AM
I've posted this in other related threads and I will here as well:

I think that you keep Manning for a year or two and trade the #1 pick for a queens ransom.

With the number of teams that would be all over Lucks jock if they had a chance you could possibly get a # of picks this year and next year with which to rebuild your team.

You don't need Luck to be a winning team, I'm not saying you should pass on a franchise QB but Luck won't be the last franchise QB to ever come along and may not be the only one in this draft (for ex. Barkley wouldn't be a bad compensation). So you can still get a QB of the future and have other picks with which to build a team around him unlike what you have done with Manning.

You could probably sit a player like Barkley behind Manning for a year or two and have him develop without throwing him in right away and you have bettered your franchise in the long run

BeerBaron
12-07-2011, 10:24 AM
So what happens if Manning declines over that period or gets hurt and Luck becomes a much better option by say week 4 next year. Then you are paying Manning a **** ton of money to be a backup QB.

As for the Rodgers comparison. Favre was always healthy and younger than Manning is now. Manning will be coming back from serious neck surgery and be 38. Why keep an aging, injured player at such a high salary?

Also, Rodgers just fell right into the laps of the Packers. I recall their GM saying recently that Rodgers was simply the best player on their board and couldn't justify passing on him. (After, of course, checking for possible trade offers.)

None of that would be the case with the Colts. If they take Luck, it's because they want Luck. It's better for their franchise long term.

BeerBaron
12-07-2011, 10:26 AM
I've posted this in other related threads and I will here as well:

I think that you keep Manning for a year or two and trade the #1 pick for a queens ransom.

With the number of teams that would be all over Lucks jock if they had a chance you could possibly get a # of picks this year and next year with which to rebuild your team.

You don't need Luck to be a winning team, I'm not saying you should pass on a franchise QB but Luck won't be the last franchise QB to ever come along and may not be the only one in this draft (for ex. Barkley wouldn't be a bad compensation). So you can still get a QB of the future and have other picks with which to build a team around him unlike what you have done with Manning.

You could probably sit a player like Barkley behind Manning for a year or two and have him develop without throwing him in right away and you have bettered your franchise in the long run

If the Colts don't take Luck, THEY WILL NOT TAKE A QB. PERIOD.

Passing on Luck and keeping Manning means a WIN RIGHT THE **** NOW mode. They'll take a skill player with their pick to try and win another Superbowl now. (Try but surely hilariously fail.)

I see no scenario where the Colts keep Manning, paying him $38 million or some ungodly figure for two years, AND take a QB with their first round pick. It simply is not going to happen.

Jvig43
12-07-2011, 10:28 AM
If the Colts don't take Luck, THEY WILL NOT TAKE A QB. PERIOD.

Passing on Luck and keeping Manning means a WIN RIGHT THE **** NOW mode. They'll take a skill player with their pick to try and win another Superbowl now. (Try but surely hilariously fail.)

I see no scenario where the Colts keep Manning, paying him $38 million or some ungodly figure for two years, AND take a QB with their first round pick. It simply is not going to happen.

But the Colts are going to basically have to make this decision before February before they have to pay his salary correct?

Grizzlegom
12-07-2011, 10:29 AM
Anyone think Peyton would be willing to restructure? That could certainly help the decisions become much easier...

LonghornsLegend
12-07-2011, 10:30 AM
i don't see how you don't take a potential franchise qb on the vague hope that your 84 year old qb with serious neck issues is ever able to play again. nothing they trade that pick for would help the team if they're still starting crap like painter and orlovsky next year.

Thank you. I could care less what his contract situation is, the Colts are taking Andrew Luck. They'll figure everything else out after that.

Sloopy
12-07-2011, 10:31 AM
If the Colts don't take Luck, THEY WILL NOT TAKE A QB. PERIOD.

Passing on Luck and keeping Manning means a WIN RIGHT THE **** NOW mode. They'll take a skill player with their pick to try and win another Superbowl now. (Try but surely hilariously fail.)

I see no scenario where the Colts keep Manning, paying him $38 million or some ungodly figure for two years, AND take a QB with their first round pick. It simply is not going to happen.

Why not? with rookie wage scale you wouldn't have to pay an ungodly rookie salary and you could trade some of the other older pieces that have huge salary cap hits.

I mean your talking about Manning like there is no way he will be healthy, he may not be but it's not guaranteed he will be a shell of his former self. You could get a QB to sit for awhile and still gain pieces for a right now push as well as the future. If you could get two firsts this year (maybe the Browns?) a second and an additional first next year (that would give you two firsts this year, two seconds this year and two firsts next year) you could theoretically improve your team for a push right now and still be building for the future with a young QB waiting in the folds for when Manning is done

BeerBaron
12-07-2011, 10:33 AM
Thank you. I could care less what his contract situation is, the Colts are taking Andrew Luck. They'll figure everything else out after that.

There is no "after."

The entire point of this thread was to point this out. The Colts have to decide before the start of the new league year.

Paying Peyton means they're stuck with him for 2 years. Cutting or trading him would cost them over a quarter of their cap space in that time.

They either cut him before he's owed that money, or they keep him for 2 years. There is no "take Luck and keep Peyton" option here. Doing so will only piss both of those guys off. If the Colts keep Peyton, Luck could (and probably should) pull an Eli/Elway to go elsewhere. And taking a backup QB #1 overall does nothing to help Peyton try to further his legacy by trying to go for another Superbowl.

It's Peyton OR Luck.

Sloopy
12-07-2011, 10:34 AM
Anyone think Peyton would be willing to restructure? That could certainly help the decisions become much easier...

I don't know if this would still cause a cap penalty but I'm almost positive he would if it were possible and if you were wiling to keep him on the team until he retires.

The guy basically told the team to pay him less before this deal got done so they could use the money to better the team.

As long as they would let him start if he's healthy and the best player to do the job, I really don't see Manning as a selfish guy

Sloopy
12-07-2011, 10:37 AM
There is no "after."

The entire point of this thread was to point this out. The Colts have to decide before the start of the new league year.

Paying Peyton means they're stuck with him for 2 years. Cutting or trading him would cost them over a quarter of their cap space in that time.

They either cut him before he's owed that money, or they keep him for 2 years. There is no "take Luck and keep Peyton" option here. Doing so will only piss both of those guys off. If the Colts keep Peyton, Luck could (and probably should) pull an Eli/Elway to go elsewhere. And taking a backup QB #1 overall does nothing to help Peyton try to further his legacy by trying to go for another Superbowl.

It's Peyton OR Luck.

I don't really see it being this black or white. Make a trade with the first pick, then pick up a QB of the future who isn't named Luck and will probably be more willing to sit behind Manning while still improving your team for an immediate push as well as preparing for the future.

Why is there this idea that you either have to be in a window or rebuilding? This seems like poor management of assets to me. A good team should be able to be in a window and also make necessary moves to secure the future, I mean just look at the Steelers.

vidae
12-07-2011, 10:46 AM
I've said it before but if I'm the Chiefs I'd easily give up two firsts and two seconds and not even blink. (Shutup Shane!)

I agree with BB though. Peyton would see the drafting of Luck as a "wasted pick" that doesn't help him get back to the Superbowl, he'd hate it.. and Luck would see being drafted to sit as "wasted time" where he could be playing football.

And like BBD said, Polian shouldn't be allowed to fall ass backwards into Luck anyway. He is slowly ruining this game and he shouldn't be rewarded for it.

Saints-Tigers
12-07-2011, 11:05 AM
Way over thinking it. They'll take Luck, they'll keep PEyton for the time being. Their second pick is basically where there first pick is in a normal year, so this draft will be a normal draft for Indy, while also adding Andrew Luck.

What is Luck going to do if he doesn't want to go to Indy? Sit out the entire year? If it comes down to him feeling that strongly about not going sit behind PEyton, he may not even declare.

FlyingElvis
12-07-2011, 11:12 AM
I don't see this as a "Manning or Luck" situation. They should tell both guys to s.t.f.u. and co-exist. Whether they will or not remains to be seen, but that's the obvious answer. If Manning is so shallow a person that he'd make a fuss about drafting Luck then the Colts should cut him for being such a giant dick in the first place. Problem solved. If Luck would pull and Elway/Eli then the Colts can pull a draft & trade similar to *****-boy Eli's deal.

Luck has already stated he'll declare. If he does pull that BS and refuse to sign and learn from the GOAT at his position I will root for his failure, just like I do with Eli.

Actually I'm changing my vote to Pollian changing some rule to get out of this situation.
lol. (sad faced lol, anyway, since it'll probably happen.)

BeerBaron
12-07-2011, 11:12 AM
Way over thinking it. They'll take Luck, they'll keep PEyton for the time being. Their second pick is basically where there first pick is in a normal year, so this draft will be a normal draft for Indy, while also adding Andrew Luck.

What is Luck going to do if he doesn't want to go to Indy? Sit out the entire year? If it comes down to him feeling that strongly about not going sit behind PEyton, he may not even declare.

This logic makes me want to break things.

I feel like I'm becoming more and more disconnected from the happy-go-Luck-iness of this board. Maybe a vacation is in order....

ryno626
12-07-2011, 11:26 AM
I hope they trade the pick based on how incompetent the front office has been at drafting the last few years.

K Train
12-07-2011, 11:43 AM
it is pretty awesome for peyton that they signed him to a $100 million deal despite all this. we can all say whats the right thing to do but im 100% sure id laugh all the way to the bank

PoopSandwich
12-07-2011, 12:01 PM
The Colts secretly paid Manning extra $$$ just to sit out so that they would tank the season and get Luck for the future, EVIL GENIUSES.

Saints-Tigers
12-07-2011, 12:04 PM
This logic makes me want to break things.

I feel like I'm becoming more and more disconnected from the happy-go-Luck-iness of this board. Maybe a vacation is in order....


Maybe you should, your black or white logic you've applied to this situation is equally frustrating.

Lets propose they do trade the pick for Luck. Even if they got the 2nd and 3rd pick, who should they take?

Luck isn't a godlike prospect to me, but consider the alternatives. Matt Kalil and Morris Claiborne? Blackmon? I'm pretty sure I'd take Luck over any two players in the draft, and they won't even be that lucky, they'll get one of them, who will be a rookie or sophomore while PEyton still has some juice.

It's pointless, the Colts can easily get much better with their picks if they play it right, let PEyton get them back into the playoffs and see how much he has left, and then hand the reigns to Luck for the next decade.

The pro trade people are acting like if the Colts trade luck they're getting back 3-4 guys that are going to come in and play like Pro Bowlers in the immediate future, and it just isn't likely.

Sloopy
12-07-2011, 12:19 PM
i just can't see any logic in not taking your next franchise qb. if this were 4 years ago and peyton were basically healthy? cool. but right now? cut him if you have to. get your guy, move forward. there aren't any players they can draft that will take them to a super bowl next year, given how putrid most of that team actually is. trading for more draft picks does nothing. trading the pick solely for proven, veteran players is the only way you give peyton a chance at another super bowl. and then you've utterly destroyed the future of your franchise. *shrug* i don't know why there's so much back and forth on this, it seems like such an obvious, clear cut decision.

Why can't you move forward with a QB not named Luck though? If Barkley stayed in college this year he would probably be the top QB coming out next year and considered a franchise guy.

You could trade back and gain more picks to improve what is a ****** team and still get your QB of the future.

jrdrylie
12-07-2011, 12:24 PM
You don't draft a QB first overall to sit. You just don't. Seven or eight years ago you did (Carson Palmer). But not in today's NFL. Not when NFL coaches and GMs basically get two years. If they haven't imporved the team by then, they are either on an incredibly hot seat or already out on their ass.

If Peyton is healthy in February, you trade the first pick to the Redskins for the 2012 first and second (probably between 5th and 7th), as well as a 2013 first and third, at minimum. Because if Peyton is healthy you can't trade him. This season showed how great Manning is. When he comes back, the Colts are automatically a playoff team. As good as everyone thinks Luck is, he'll probably never be as greta as Manning is. There is even a chance he is a bust.

If they don't think Manning is healthy, then they trade him or cut him or do whatever it takes to get him off the team, and then go with Luck.

Complex
12-07-2011, 12:30 PM
You don't draft a QB first overall to sit. You just don't. Seven or eight years ago you did (Carson Palmer). But not in today's NFL. Not when NFL coaches and GMs basically get two years. If they haven't imporved the team by then, they are either on an incredibly hot seat or already out on their ass.

If Peyton is healthy in February, you trade the first pick to the Redskins for the 2012 first and second (probably between 5th and 7th), as well as a 2013 first and third, at minimum. Because if Peyton is healthy you can't trade him. This season showed how great Manning is. When he comes back, the Colts are automatically a playoff team. As good as everyone thinks Luck is, he'll probably never be as greta as Manning is. There is even a chance he is a bust.

If they don't think Manning is healthy, then they trade him or cut him or do whatever it takes to get him off the team, and then go with Luck.

They can't trade him if they pick up his option because it would a 38 million cap hit also they have to pick up his option before the beginning of the new season.

killxswitch
12-07-2011, 12:32 PM
So what happens if Manning declines over that period or gets hurt and Luck becomes a much better option by say week 4 next year. Then you are paying Manning a **** ton of money to be a backup QB.

As for the Rodgers comparison. Favre was always healthy and younger than Manning is now. Manning will be coming back from serious neck surgery and be 38. Why keep an aging, injured player at such a high salary?

I haven't gotten all the way through the thread yet but once correction. Manning will be 36 in March. Not 38.

ImBrotherCain
12-07-2011, 12:33 PM
The amount of redundancy in this thread is incredible.

FlyingElvis
12-07-2011, 12:34 PM
The amount of redundancy in this thread is incredible.

BeerBaron
12-07-2011, 12:40 PM
There is an incredible amount of redundancy in this thread.

bantx
12-07-2011, 12:41 PM
They will get both because I said so, that is my logic.

Complex
12-07-2011, 12:43 PM
I like to point out that I said from the very beginning that Peyton would not like the colts drafting Luck and that they would not be on the same team.

bantx
12-07-2011, 12:44 PM
This thread wasn't made for you to say you were right when nothing is set in stone yet ahole

DraftSavant
12-07-2011, 12:45 PM
I really really hope the Colts don't get Andrew Luck.

I just think Bill Polian is absolute evil, and I'd hate for that slimeball to slimeball his way to getting Andrew Luck.

He's just the biggest jerk in football. He ruined the sport I love, I can't stand him. He shouldn't be rewarded for tanking.

If there is a football God out there, justice has to be served here somehow someway.

If they choose to go full rebuild, I have zero faith that Chris Polian can build a competent team around Andrew Luck. So I don't care either way at this point.

whatadai
12-07-2011, 12:46 PM
Guys, read this http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/12/07/colts-cant-pay-and-trade-peyton/

killxswitch
12-07-2011, 12:47 PM
Until Archie Manning's recent comments, I thought the Colts would take Luck and keep Manning (assuming he's healthy) and damn the supposed consequences. Manning's rehab has taken a step forward in recent days so whereas I was previous 50/50 on him even coming back I am more 70/30 in favor of him probably getting back on the field.

For those of you not familiar with Jim Irsay, understand this. If Manning is healthy, Irsay will do whatever it takes to keep him there. If Manning says (behind the scenes because he'd never say this publicly) that he wants to be cut if they take Luck, then Irsay will tell Polian to trade the pick. Irsay trusts Polian too much, but he loves Manning. He loves the Manning story and desperately wants him to retire a Colt. It may not be the rational thing, or the best football decision, but I am 100% confident that if Manning is healthy enough to play, Irsay will pay him and not think twice.

I do think it's possible the team trades the Luck pick for two 1st rounders and two 2nd rounders. If they traded with Washington that might allow them to still get Barkely or RG3. I don't see that as an impossibility. It is not all or nothing. The Colts can take a QB of the future and still use the other picks to get better. It isn't like there are "for the future" picks vs "right now" picks. You don't pick a guy (other than a QB of the future) with the idea that he won't be good for two or three seasons. You take the BPA as long as the need is there.

Another option is that Manning restructures. He is the one that suggested taking less money and he is the one that insisted on the opt-out clause because he knew he might not be able to play this year. He is not the greedy bastard some think he is.

Regardless of what happens here I hope Polian is fired. I think this is all his fault, as are most other bad things.

BeerBaron
12-07-2011, 12:53 PM
If there's so small of a gap between Luck and Barkley/Griffin, then perhaps teams something won't pay such a ransom for the first overall pick.

Additionally, if you have the Rams and Vikings sitting right behind the Colts not needing QBs, they may accept less than the Colts are demanding from another team wanting to guarantee they at least get one of Luck, Barkley or Griffin.

Iamcanadian
12-07-2011, 01:01 PM
If the Colts can get out of Peyton's contract, they may be forced to cut him prior to that date. I'm not clear how his contract reads and whether or not they can cut him. Someone else on this site will have to do the research.
I know this, with his contract Manning cannot be traded but could get picked up as a FA where he has to renegotiate his terms with a new team.
I also know this, they will draft Luck with their #1 overall pick no matter what they decide on Manning. The next decade for the franchise, has to be protected and Luck is about as close to a sure thing that you are going to find.
Luck may be very happy to sit for a year or 2 because he will be making peanuts so why take too many risks before you have to when your post rookie salary is finished and he moves into the 14 or more million dollar contract, awaiting him in the future. It's a win win for Luck and if Peyton doesn't hold up physically, Luck will play sooner anyways.
People are wasting their time predicting Indy will trade the pick, it just isn't going to happen, and Bill Polian will continue to be their GM without a doubt. He is one of the smartest people in the game and an acute drafter.

Sloopy
12-07-2011, 01:04 PM
*shrug* i don't think most of the other qbs in this draft are any good (though i like griffin), so i wouldn't bother trying to move forward with them.

regardless, the franchise needs to admit to itself that it's 3-4 years of rebuilding away from seeing any success, suck it up, and do what needs to be done. acting like they can win now with this team, no matter what they do with the 1st pick is foolish.

Yea it's kind of why they are even in the situation they are in: BP.

The biggest addition they could make would be by subtraction

killxswitch
12-07-2011, 01:07 PM
If the Colts can get out of Peyton's contract, they may be forced to cut him prior to that date. I'm not clear how his contract reads and whether or not they can cut him. Someone else on this site will have to do the research.
I know this, with his contract Manning cannot be traded but could get picked up as a FA where he has to renegotiate his terms with a new team.
I also know this, they will draft Luck with their #1 overall pick no matter what they decide on Manning. The next decade for the franchise, has to be protected and Luck is about as close to a sure thing that you are going to find.
Luck may be very happy to sit for a year or 2 because he will be making peanuts so why take too many risks before you have to when your post rookie salary is finished and he moves into the 14 or more million dollar contract, awaiting him in the future. It's a win win for Luck and if Peyton doesn't hold up physically, Luck will play sooner anyways.
People are wasting their time predicting Indy will trade the pick, it just isn't going to happen, and Bill Polian will continue to be their GM without a doubt. He is one of the smartest people in the game and an acute drafter.

It's funny people still think this.

boknows34
12-07-2011, 01:14 PM
You have to blame the Colts management for putting that roster bonus BEFORE the start of the new league year. When Manning signed that contract last summer they would have known that there was a good chance he would need further neck surgery and miss the season. What they clearly didn't plan for was the possibility of having Andrew Luck fall into their laps and be faced with the huge dilemma they are now left with.

FWIW, I can't see how they keep Manning and Luck. Wayne, Saturday and Mathis will all be UFAs and they can't afford to re-sign them if #18 returns and still have to pay Luck too. They probably won't be able to re-sign them even if Luck is traded. Would Manning want to play his last 3-4 years on a team that just allowed what little talent it had left walk out the door while grooming his replacement? Not a chance.

Trading Manning is simply a not an option either when faced with the $38m cap hit.

Keeping Peyton and trading Luck would be incredibly short-sighted too. By the time those 2012 and 2013 draft picks start helping the team, Manning will be knocking on the door of retirement at 40-years-old, assuming he stays healthy, and assuming the Colts actually draft well, something which they haven't done in years. They would then be left back at square one looking for their long-term answer at QB. Ask Miami fans how difficult that is.

The Colts need to draft Luck and start a massive rebuild. Even the local scribes can see the writing on the wall for Manning.


http://www.indystar.com/article/20111202/SPORTS15/312020006/Kravitz-Manning-Luck-tandem-cannot-work-Colts?odyssey=mod|mostview

We're happy for Peyton Manning. Of course we are. The Thursday night news that his neck is healing, that he has a chance to play football again, is an undeniably wonderful development for a guy who has given heart and soul to this franchise and this city.

And yet, as far as the Indianapolis Colts are concerned, it shouldn't really matter.

Whether Manning heals completely or not, whether he returns to practice this month or not, bringing him back next year and beyond would be salary cap suicide and set the franchise back for years to come. It makes no sense, none, to mortgage the team's long-term future and ****** Andrew Luck's progress while gambling on Manning's health and longevity.

At the risk of repeating myself -- and repeating myself -- this team cannot move forward with Manning and Luck on the same roster. Unless Manning is willing to engage in a massive restructuring of his contract, and it's hard to see why he would give up his leverage, it's simply not practical no matter how many times team vice chairman Bill Polian insists the pair can coexist.

Maybe management is trying to soften the blow that would accompany Manning's exit, or it simply hasn't come to terms with it.

But it must happen.

Here's why:

Let's say the Colts want to bring back Manning for a year or two, with Luck as a backup, and go into Win One For Peyton mode.

Does anybody really think this team can return to Super Bowl contention within the next year or two? Seriously?

To have any outside chance at rebuilding in a hurry, the Colts would have to re-sign several of their veteran free agents, notably Reggie Wayne, Jeff Saturday and Robert Mathis. That's a lot of money, a massive cap hit the Colts would have to swallow for years to come, a financial burden that would limit their ability to build around Luck when his time comes.

Let's say the Colts keep Manning for one year and then trade him. They would take a $28.8 million cap hit the year he leaves. Add Luck's contract and his backup, you're spending nearly $35 million on quarterbacks. They will not be competitive.

Let's say the Colts keep Manning for two years and then trade him. (I'm tossing out this option for conversation's sake; there's no way Luck is coming here, or should come here, if he's sitting for two years). In that case, the Colts will take an immediate $19.2 million cap hit on the remainder of Manning's contract. Add Luck's contract and a backup, you're looking at about $27 million in quarterbacks.

As team owner Jim Irsay said during the Manning negotiations shortly after the lockout, you can't field a competitive team when the quarterback is counting $20 million against the cap.

And let's not even entertain this goofy idea of paying Manning his option bonus in March and then trading him; that would be a $38.8 million cap hit. They'll be using me at the mike linebacker.

It's Manning or Luck, Luck or Manning.

Do you spend mega-millions to take a chance on a 36-year-old quarterback who has endured three neck surgeries in 19 months, or a highly touted rookie who will cost next-to-nothing and whose minimal cap hit will allow the team to spend lots of cash surrounding him with talent?

Either you're building for now, or you're building for the future. Given these circumstances, it's impossible to do both. For the umpteenth time, this is not another Aaron Rodgers situation; he was the 24th pick in the draft. Luck will be the first pick in the draft, and he will have the leverage that comes with being the first pick in the draft.

It hurts to say it, to write it, to think it, but it's time for the Indianapolis Colts to move on -- whether Manning tells us he has a clean bill of health or is still struggling to recover.

At some point, Colts fans are going to embrace the fact that they're going from one franchise quarterback to another franchise quarterback in the space of one year.

In Miami, they're still looking for Dan Marino's successor.

In Denver, they're still looking for someone to replace John Elway.

The Colts? They've hit the lottery.

They've sucked for Luck.

Happy day.

Nobody wants to see the Manning era end too early. Nobody. There is still a nagging sense there is unfinished business with this core group, that for all the excellence they've achieved this past decade, there's still more that can be done.

And not just because we're talking about Manning. We're talking about Wayne, and Saturday, and lots of other great veterans who've brought Indianapolis a championship and more than a decade of remarkable football.

Irsay, in particular, has a romantic, poetic sensibility. He wants desperately for Manning to retire as a member of the Indianapolis Colts, and that desire is shared by virtually everybody in this town.

I get all that.

I get that fans in our city do not want to contemplate life without the greatest and most influential athlete we've ever known.

But think with your head, and not your heart. Think rationally, not emotionally. And the decision becomes obvious.

BeerBaron
12-07-2011, 01:18 PM
Greatest article ever.

"It's Manning or Luck, Luck or Manning."

Money.

Iamcanadian
12-07-2011, 01:25 PM
If there's so small of a gap between Luck and Barkley/Griffin, then perhaps teams something won't pay such a ransom for the first overall pick.

Additionally, if you have the Rams and Vikings sitting right behind the Colts not needing QBs, they may accept less than the Colts are demanding from another team wanting to guarantee they at least get one of Luck, Barkley or Griffin.

I think you are making excellent points, with so many solid QB's near the top of the draft, Luck's value will diminish accordingly in any trade scenario.
Also, Killxswitch is assuming that Irsay is a total fool who cannot comprehend that Peyton has at most 2 years in the tank even if the neck holds up, about which there is no guarantee. That he won't try to save the franchise from a disaster if Peyton is forced to give up football at some later point because of the neck injury. Sorry, but I think Irsay is acute enough to understand the reality of pro football and while he may want to keep Peyton around, he won't flush the franchise down the drain to satisfy his own ego and he won't fire Polian either.

bantx
12-07-2011, 01:25 PM
http://espn.go.com/nfl/conversations/_/id/7327351/archie-manning-new-take-peyton-manning-andrew-luck-co-exist-indianapolis-colts

Peyton must've told Archie to st fu

Brown Leader
12-07-2011, 01:28 PM
Unless Manning is willing to engage in a massive restructuring of his contract, and it's hard to see why he would give up his leverage, it's simply not practical no matter how many times team vice chairman Bill Polian insists the pair can coexist.

Let's say the Colts keep Manning for two years and then trade him. (I'm tossing out this option for conversation's sake; there's no way Luck is coming here, or should come here, if he's sitting for two years).

He'll restructure and Luck will not be opposed to sitting. Especially since a starting QB is not likely to start every game for two seasons anyhow, especially one coming back from a potentially career ending injury.

BeerBaron
12-07-2011, 01:32 PM
Everyone is just so eager to announce that Peyton will restructure. Why?

And don't give me some vague "This one time, he said one time that he thought about saying that this one time, he would take less money so they could build a better team around him."

Bull ****. He still signed a contract that made him the highest paid player ever when he probably knew he couldn't play because of his neck.

Iamcanadian
12-07-2011, 01:35 PM
It's funny people still think this.

You can certainly mark me down as one who does.

bantx
12-07-2011, 01:38 PM
We all saw how well it worked out for Gabbert being thrown into the situation like he was. I love how everyone says Luck is NFL ready and ready to start like they're NFL scouts :\

BeerBaron
12-07-2011, 01:41 PM
We all saw how well it worked out for Gabbert being thrown into the situation like he was. I love how everyone says Luck is NFL ready and ready to start like they're NFL scouts :\

Don't you dare EVER mention Luck and Gabbert in the same sentence again. I will find you and I will CUT you.

Their situations are absolutely in no way shape or form comparable.

killxswitch
12-07-2011, 01:44 PM
Don't you dare EVER mention Luck and Gabbert in the same sentence again. I will find you and I will CUT you.

Their situations are absolutely in no way shape or form comparable.

Their skillsets are not comparable, but the situation Gabbert entered can be compared. Shaky front office, lack of talent on the roster, poor coaching staff. Maybe a better comparison would be Cam Newton and the Panthers. Luck will probably do well individually but unless the roster receives a massive overhaul (and there's not a ton of reason to expect the current front office knows how to do that) he will not have much help.

bantx
12-07-2011, 01:49 PM
Well Luck is still a prospect you can't tell me that he will or will not have a good season starting out I'm just making a point about how people keep saying Luck is NFL ready from day 1.

BeerBaron
12-07-2011, 01:52 PM
Well Luck is still a prospect you can't tell me that he will or will not have a good season starting out I'm just making a point about how people keep saying Luck is NFL ready from day 1.

He is "NFL Ready" as a prospect. We obviously won't know for sure until he's on the an NFL field, but "NFL Ready" is a completely legitimate term for evaluating prospects.

It means that you're seeing the guy do in college things that he'll need to be able to do in the pros.

For example, in the USC game, Luck avoided two pass rushers while rolling to his right and never taking his eyes off from downfield. He then threw a strike to pick up a first down on the run. That's some Aaron Rodgers **** right there.

Blaine Gabbert would have spiked the ball 2 yards in front of him, picked up an intentional grounding penalty and then curled up in the fetal position.

Oh wait, that's not what he WOULD do, that's what he DID do...in a game against your Chargers just this past Monday night...

bantx
12-07-2011, 01:59 PM
We're comparing 2 way different situations Gabbert is playing against an NFL speed defense who's had no help all year. A QB who should not be throwing as much as he had been. To Andrew Luck playing against a college defense there's a big difference there. I'm not comparing talent levels, I'm comparing situations.

FlyingElvis
12-07-2011, 02:07 PM
"As team owner Jim Irsay said during the Manning negotiations shortly after the lockout, you can't field a competitive team when the quarterback is counting $20 million against the cap."


Pick the meme . . . there has to be one for insanely obvious contradiction.

PoopSandwich
12-07-2011, 02:08 PM
Peyton made that franchise so much money and didn't miss a start forever, I doubt he is going to want to restructure.

Raiderz4Life
12-07-2011, 02:40 PM
It's funny people still think this.

Iamcanadian seems to be the only one blind enough to think so. To him....losing your star QB and then tanking an entire season and depriving your players and fans of any wins is an ingenious strategy that Polian cooked up. He figures when Manning went down Polian said

"O well...**** it, lets not win a single game this season, the fans be damned and I know I'm a badass that can lose every game and not get fired and we'll take Luck, mwuahahaha"

DraftSavant
12-07-2011, 03:01 PM
We're comparing 2 way different situations Gabbert is playing against an NFL speed defense who's had no help all year. A QB who should not be throwing as much as he had been. To Andrew Luck playing against a college defense there's a big difference there. I'm not comparing talent levels, I'm comparing situations.

Except that Blaine Gabbert also played like this in college. It wasn't as extreme because his pitch and catch offense protected him, and the defenses weren't as big, fast, or intimidating, but his playing style is virtually identical to what he did at Mizzou.

DraftSavant
12-07-2011, 03:02 PM
It's funny people still think this.

Bill still scares me.

Chris Polian, I just laugh at. And he's basically running the personnel department at this point, so....

bantx
12-07-2011, 03:02 PM
Except that Blaine Gabbert also played like this in college. It wasn't as extreme because his pitch and catch offense protected him, and the defenses weren't as big, fast, or intimidating, but his playing style is virtually identical to what he did at Mizzou.

This is where coaching comes into play. And I don't know why I have to keep repeating myself, I'm not comparing talents I'm comparing situations....

Brown Leader
12-07-2011, 03:05 PM
Everyone is just so eager to announce that Peyton will restructure. Why?

And don't give me some vague "This one time, he said one time that he thought about saying that this one time, he would take less money so they could build a better team around him."

Bull ****. He still signed a contract that made him the highest paid player ever when he probably knew he couldn't play because of his neck.

If Manning's not 100% healthy and feeling great, a prognosis that looks something like a toss up, you think he'd refuse to restructure his contract?

And Luck's going to refuse to watch and learn behind a HOFer who's essentially his team's OC, so that he can start from day 1 elsewhere?

Maby I'm being naive, but I'm not buying it.

Raiderz4Life
12-07-2011, 03:06 PM
If Manning's not 100% healthy and feeling great, a prognosis that looks something like a toss up, you think he'd refuse to restructure his contract?

And Luck's going to refuse to watch and learn behind a HOFer who's essentially his team's OC, so that he can start from day 1 elsewhere?

Maby I'm being naive, but I'm not buying it.

This isn't some one way street where you draft Luck and Manning's going to tutor him. What if Manning doesn't want to? You know he has a lot of power within the franchise. If he can make a comeback who is to say that he'll totally embrace Luck with open arms and teach him? From what I've read and heard he's not too thrilled about that.

Prowler
12-07-2011, 03:10 PM
Let Luck learn for 2 years under Manning. This isn't that hard. Manning has plenty of blowouts and garbage time in weeks 12-16 that Luck can get some playing time in. With a QB like Luck behind him, and the potential for Manning to have setbacks, then it would be reckless to not take Luck. I can also see Manning being forced a sit a game or two if he takes a beating and allowing Luck to play.

Saints-Tigers
12-07-2011, 03:10 PM
He doesn't have to coddle and carry Luck everywhere with him, but Luck will be the backup... meaning he'll be at practice, he'll be at meetings, and he'll be in the film room with Peyton.

Brett apparently wasn't a big fan of Aaron Rodgers either, but I bet you sitting and watching Brett did a lot more for Rodgers than sitting behind someone like David Garrard would have.

Brown Leader
12-07-2011, 03:12 PM
This isn't some one way street where you draft Luck and Manning's going to tutor him. What if Manning doesn't want to? You know he has a lot of power within the franchise. If he can make a comeback who is to say that he'll totally embrace Luck with open arms and teach him? From what I've read and heard he's not too thrilled about that.

If he makes a comeback he can go anywhere he wants in 2.

He doesn't have to coddle and carry Luck everywhere with him, but Luck will be the backup... meaning he'll be at practice, he'll be at meetings, and he'll be in the film room with Peyton.

Brett apparently wasn't a big fan of Aaron Rodgers either, but I bet you sitting and watching Brett did a lot more for Rodgers than sitting behind someone like David Garrard would have.
This.

Prowler
12-07-2011, 03:13 PM
The greatest thing about forcing a QB to sit is that you are keeping them hungry. No keys to the franchise, no free meal ticket to start out. He'll practice with the 2nd string and earn his way as opposed to getting everything thrown at him all at once.

Sloopy
12-07-2011, 03:21 PM
Everyone is just so eager to announce that Peyton will restructure. Why?

And don't give me some vague "This one time, he said one time that he thought about saying that this one time, he would take less money so they could build a better team around him."

Bull ****. He still signed a contract that made him the highest paid player ever when he probably knew he couldn't play because of his neck.

I'm sorry man I really can't agree with you here... and you need to calm down.

The guy wanted to take less money and came out and publicly asked the front office to use the saved money to build a better team. Does this mean that he would definitely restructure? No, but it speaks to me that he is more concerned with winning than money.

If the team decided to not take Luck and use the picks from it to make the team better I'm sure he would be willing to do this as it's what he asked for in the first place. Even if they take another QB to sit behind him.

However, I don't see this happening if they draft Luck, I imagine in that case he might either take the money or at the very least demand a trade.

BeerBaron
12-07-2011, 03:27 PM
I'm sorry man I really can't agree with you here... and you need to calm down.

The guy wanted to take less money and came out and publicly asked the front office to use the saved money to build a better team. Does this mean that he would definitely restructure? No, but it speaks to me that he is more concerned with winning than money.

If the team decided to not take Luck and use the picks from it to make the team better I'm sure he would be willing to do this as it's what he asked for in the first place. Even if they take another QB to sit behind him.

However, I don't see this happening if they draft Luck, I imagine in that case he might either take the money or at the very least demand a trade.

Here's the problem. They don't get to take luck and see what happens.

Peyton is owed his bonus before the end of THIS league year. They have to deal with him before they can do anything with the draft. And the options there are:

1.) Opt Out - Peyton walks and becomes a FA, Colts take Luck

2.) Pay Peyton - $38 million the next 2 season, virtually impossible to trade or cut during that time. Could cause Luck to pull an Eli/Elway.

3.) Get Peyton to restructure then ????? - And this seems unlikely to me for reasons I've said already.

Sloopy
12-07-2011, 03:29 PM
Here's the problem. They don't get to take luck and see what happens.

Peyton is owed his bonus before the end of THIS league year. They have to deal with him before they can do anything with the draft. And the options there are:

1.) Opt Out - Peyton walks and becomes a FA, Colts take Luck

2.) Pay Peyton - $38 million the next 2 season, virtually impossible to trade or cut during that time. Could cause Luck to pull an Eli/Elway.

3.) Get Peyton to restructure then ????? - And this seems unlikely to me for reasons I've said already.

I'm saying that if they are deciding before the end of the year (or now for that matter) that they are going to pick Luck, they should opt out, if they are willing to trade the pick, they keep Manning.

I mean it's not like they probably aren't thinking about all the scenarios and they are pretty sure they are going to have the #1 pick

Prowler
12-07-2011, 03:30 PM
Peyton IS Indiana. He's not going anywhere. Luck is the future, he's coming here. The rest is just details. Luck will sit, spot start, and wait his turn.

Sloopy
12-07-2011, 03:38 PM
Peyton IS Indiana. He's not going anywhere. Luck is the future, he's coming here. The rest is just details. Luck will sit, spot start, and wait his turn.

To be honest I really wouldn't be surprised if Luck forced a trade. I mean how long have these rumors been flying around and never once has he come out and said "No I would never do that"

I know that some have defended this as him focusing on football and not the media circus, but there comes a point when something needs to be said. If it really wasn't true, all it would take was a quick sentence in an interview to deny it.

If he does end up pulling a forced trade, Indy will have almost no leverage in making a trade and will end up losing out on the possibility of getting the value they would have for the trade

JBCX
12-07-2011, 05:56 PM
The smart thing to do would be to trade Peyton to some desperate team for a first round pick, and then draft Luck #1 overall and maybe someone like Blackmon or Floyd with the other first round pick.

Jvig43
12-07-2011, 05:58 PM
The smart thing to do would be to trade Peyton to some desperate team for a first round pick, and then draft Luck #1 overall and maybe someone like Blackmon or Floyd with the other first round pick.

No it wouldn't because the Colts would be taking a major cap hit, which is why this has become an issue. It used to be that easy before most of us realized that come February Manning is due a good amount of money.

TitanHope
12-07-2011, 06:03 PM
What would the luxury tax be were the Colts to trade away Manning and go over the cap?

CC.SD
12-07-2011, 06:16 PM
**** this most blatant goddamn tanking in professional sports history. Sorry I don't believe a contending team 2 years removed from a Super Bowl appearance is going to go winless without their QB.

There have been 2 winless teams in the entire Super Bowl era, and now it's going to be 3 because of one player? Shameless.

I have seen what a 1-15 team looks like and it takes serious effort to get to the bottom. Every 1-15 team ever is better than what surrounded Peyton? I just don't believe it.

soybean
12-07-2011, 06:25 PM
All im sayin is they better fire Jim Caldwell no questions asked and Bill Polian if they go 0-16.

Prowler
12-07-2011, 06:27 PM
I can't believe a team found a worse head coach than Marinelli. Maybe he believes in the invisible coaching method too.

Jvig43
12-07-2011, 07:15 PM
Bil Pollian isn't ******* going anywhere, I just don't see it happening.

Bengalsrocket
12-08-2011, 03:36 AM
Why would anyone assume you're getting a 1st round pick for Peyton Manning?

I'm not even one of those people who thinks that draft picks are more valuable than players, but despite the fact that he's a HoFer, he is still a major risk.

I can't think of any team that is only a QB away from making a legit Superbowl run besides possibly the Jets and the Ravens, both of which probably aren't ready to give up on the possibility that their current QB can win them a ring anyways.

I know some people think the 49ers are an option in the trade, but let's be realistic; you would have to be a pretty arrogant general manager to give up on 2 potential future players of that franchise (Alex Smith + whatever they would have drafted with the 1st round pick they trade) after just 1 year of success.

The 49ers have such a good thing going right now with Harbaugh, I can't for the life of me understand why they would put the kind of pressure to win, that would come with Manning, on him after how well he's started his career there.

Now if he gets cut, that's a whole different story :)

Miaoww
12-08-2011, 04:43 AM
There's about 30 teams in the NFL that would love to be 'stuck' with Peyton Manning.

I also don't see why the Colts couldn't trade the #1 pick to a team desperate for Luck (like the Dolphins), stay in the top 10 and draft RG3/Barkley for the future as well as pick up a ton of talent elsewhere.

Prowler
12-08-2011, 05:47 AM
There really is no problem here unless Luck goes the diva route. Roll out the red carpet to Luck until the season begins. All the Colts need is for Luck to sign his contract. Curiousity and respect for Manning will get Luck through the first season. 2nd season can be more of an "equals" thing with Manning still starting, but Luck spot starting when Manning gets killed due to poor offensive line/no run game.

boknows34
12-08-2011, 07:37 AM
If Manning is released before the deadline it would save the Colts approximately $6.6 million toward the 2012 salary cap and over $35m in cash. Manning's cap hit would drop from $17 million (with $35.4 million actually paid out to him because of the bonus plus salary), down to $10.4 million if he's cut before the deadline.

BeerBaron
12-08-2011, 07:57 AM
I've thought about this some more and I've listed and read opinions from a number of different analysts, and I think I've found where I have an issue.

It's the fact that the Colts would be stuck with Peyton for 2 years instead of just 1.

One year I could buy I think. Luck sits for one while Peyton plays.

But to pay Peyton's salary to a guy coming off a serious neck issue with rumors of possible nerve damage weakening his arm and shoulder while you have the #1 pick and the draft and one of the best QB prospects ever behind him?

It just doesn't make sense to me. Short of an extreme restructuring by Peyton...which for reasons pointed out previously, I don't know why he would agree to that...I just can't buy it.

ATLDirtyBirds
12-08-2011, 08:31 AM
I've thought about this some more and I've listed and read opinions from a number of different analysts, and I think I've found where I have an issue.

It's the fact that the Colts would be stuck with Peyton for 2 years instead of just 1.

One year I could buy I think. Luck sits for one while Peyton plays.

But to pay Peyton's salary to a guy coming off a serious neck issue with rumors of possible nerve damage weakening his arm and shoulder while you have the #1 pick and the draft and one of the best QB prospects ever behind him?

It just doesn't make sense to me. Short of an extreme restructuring by Peyton...which for reasons pointed out previously, I don't know why he would agree to that...I just can't buy it.



I think you are making this bigger than it needs to be. The Colts are going to give Manning the 2 years, prudent or not. Luck will be sitting. It's a waste of his skills since part of his appeal is not needing to sit and having an extremely high floor, but it is what it is. Colts will not get rid of Manning.

BradysKnee
12-08-2011, 08:38 AM
I think the Colts have to realize they need to rebuild, and Peyton being healthy isn't going to get them back to the promised land. I think its almost certain Manning is released. The question is where does he sign?

Strong Possibilities:

Miami - I don't know if Manning would be all about playing with a guy like Marshall, but the decent defense and Reggie Bush's revival is appealing.
Cleveland - Some talent in Cleveland, he'd certainly push this team to compete for the division crown.
Houston - I could definately see Houston signing Manning and cutting Schaub. That defense healthy + Manning to Johnson scares me a bit.
KC - Another good fit. Strong defense, good running game (next year), and some good young WRs.
Washington - They'll pay him whatever he wants.
Seattle - Would make the team good enough to win the division easily. I don't know that he'd play there though.
Tampa Bay - They got the money, they could keep Freeman and Manning.
San Fran - This team would be better than GB with Manning.
Arizona - Another team I think he'd make scary good.

Maybes
New York Jets - The thought of the Jets with Peyton Manning terrorifies me.
Buffalo - As above.
Jacksonville - Give up on Gabbert? I doubt it, but maybe.
Dallas - Another team that would be scary. Imagine Manning throwing to that receiving core.

BeerBaron
12-08-2011, 08:38 AM
I think you are making this bigger than it needs to be. The Colts are going to give Manning the 2 years, prudent or not. Luck will be sitting. It's a waste of his skills since part of his appeal is not needing to sit and having an extremely high floor, but it is what it is. Colts will not get rid of Manning.

Well, another problem is that with Peyton's salary plus Luck's (while cheaper thanks to the cap, we're still not talking league minimum or anything like that) too much will be invested in the QBs to reasonably resign key free agents like Wayne, Mathis and Saturday.

It's not a prudent move for the franchise to keep Manning. Their sentimentality is going to set the franchise back if they have both of these guys.

BeerBaron
12-08-2011, 08:44 AM
I think the Colts have to realize they need to rebuild, and Peyton being healthy isn't going to get them back to the promised land. I think its almost certain Manning is released. The question is where does he sign?

Strong Possibilities:

Miami - I don't know if Manning would be all about playing with a guy like Marshall, but the decent defense and Reggie Bush's revival is appealing.
Cleveland - Some talent in Cleveland, he'd certainly push this team to compete for the division crown.
Houston - I could definately see Houston signing Manning and cutting Schaub. That defense healthy + Manning to Johnson scares me a bit.
KC - Another good fit. Strong defense, good running game (next year), and some good young WRs.
Washington - They'll pay him whatever he wants.
Seattle - Would make the team good enough to win the division easily. I don't know that he'd play there though.
Tampa Bay - They got the money, they could keep Freeman and Manning.
San Fran - This team would be better than GB with Manning.
Arizona - Another team I think he'd make scary good.

Maybes
New York Jets - The thought of the Jets with Peyton Manning terrorifies me.
Buffalo - As above.
Jacksonville - Give up on Gabbert? I doubt it, but maybe.
Dallas - Another team that would be scary. Imagine Manning throwing to that receiving core.

Miami - Eh, lukewarm. They'd probably want him more than he'd want them.

Cleveland - Not going to happen. Awful offensive supporting cast.

Houston - Why would they cut the younger and, prior to injury, well-playing Schaub for the older and coming-off-a-neck-injury Manning?

KC - Seems unlikely to me. Gut feeling is that he and Haley couldn't get along.

Washington - My #1 spot. While the offensive cast isn't great, Dan Snyder would shell out the big bucks and the offense would revolve around Peyton.

Seattle - My #2 spot. Peyton would push the Seahawks into division competition at the very least.

Tampa - No. Not with Freeman. He's still the franchise there.

San Fran - Will resign Alex Smith. Not better than Manning, but certainly cheaper. And like Haley, I think Peyton and Harbaugh's personalities would conflict a little.

Jacksonville - Peyton wouldn't go there.

Dallas - Interesting, but they would have to collapse miserably with Romo playing awful for them to move on. New coach though (Jeff Fisher?) if the Offensive Genius is fired, could also make them move on from Romo. Hard to say. Not impossible but unlikely I think.

My order if Peyton were straight up released would go:

1.) Washington
2.) Seattle
3.) Miami

brat316
12-08-2011, 08:45 AM
They have to decide on the opt out option before the new season starts. I think Manning had his agent put that in so if he can't be on the team he can sign with anyone, rather than being traded. And said team that trades for him loses picks, further hurts the team he gets traded to.

ATLDirtyBirds
12-08-2011, 08:46 AM
Well, another problem is that with Peyton's salary plus Luck's (while cheaper thanks to the cap, we're still not talking league minimum or anything like that) too much will be invested in the QBs to reasonably resign key free agents like Wayne, Mathis and Saturday.

It's not a prudent move for the franchise to keep Manning. Their sentimentality is going to set the franchise back if they have both of these guys.


Teams do this a lot more than think logically when it comes to faces of the franchise.

Prowler
12-08-2011, 08:46 AM
There is no way Peyton will be released or traded. He is an Indiana state treasure and is going nowhere.

BradysKnee
12-08-2011, 08:48 AM
There is no way Peyton will be released or traded. He is an Indiana state treasure and is going nowhere.

People said that about Montana.

Prowler
12-08-2011, 08:50 AM
Would New England give up on Tom Brady? No. Manning is going nowhere, salary hits are not even a factor in the discussion. It doesn't matter if Manning takes up 80% of the cap, he's going nowhere.

They are taking Luck and preparing for the future. Yes, he will sit. No, they don't care about trade offers for the pick.

Again, the only thing that could derail the situation is Luck being a diva, which he hasn't shown that side yet.

jrdrylie
12-08-2011, 08:51 AM
A few things:

1. They will not be on the same team next year. Andrew Luck has spent the last year listening to every draft analyst sucking his dick saying he is the best QB prospect in at least a decade. He will not sit. If he is drafted by the Colts and manning is still there, he'll demande a trade.

2. Peyton won't restructure his deal. The only reason they would restructure his deal is to make it easier to trade him. Why would a player take a pay cut to make it easier for his team to kick him to the curb? Manning is a smart dude. He isn't going to give up millions of dollars just to be nice.

3. Bill Polian sucks. Marlin Jackson, Joseph Addai, Kelvin Hayden, Tim Jennings, Anthony Gonzalez, Tony Ugoh, Mike Pollack, Donald Brown, Fila Moala, Jerry Hughes, Pat Angerer. Only one of those guys is any good. I think IamCanadian is stuck in 2003 because nobody has been worse in the first two rounds of the NFL draft in the last 7 years than Bill Polian.

Prowler
12-08-2011, 08:51 AM
The 49ers were actually a good team. Manning is the Han Solo holding the Colts' Millennium Falcon together. He's the only one who can fly that thing right now, and the Colts can use the next 2 years building the team for Luck and having the best backup in the NFL for fragile Manning.

BradysKnee
12-08-2011, 08:52 AM
Would New England give up on Tom Brady? No. Manning is going nowhere, salary hits are not even a factor in the discussion. It doesn't matter if Manning takes up 80% of the cap, he's going nowhere.

They are taking Luck and preparing for the future. Yes, he will sit. No, they don't care about trade offers for the pick.

Again, the only thing that could derail the situation is Luck being a diva, which he hasn't shown that side yet.

I fully expect Brady to play on another team before retiring.

BeerBaron
12-08-2011, 08:57 AM
Teams do this a lot more than think logically when it comes to faces of the franchise.

I can understand it some when it's not a QB. Ray Lewis will play for the Ravens until Ray Lewis decides not to anymore. Same probably applies for Urlacher and the Bears.

But, since people like bringing up how Rodgers sat behind Favre for so long, I'll use that example.

The Packers moved on from their HoF face of the franchise for over a decade to a youngster who had barely seen the field up to that point. They dealt with one down year as he got adjusted, shrugged off the criticism, and now look where they are.

Being sentimental hurts your team in the long run. If they cut Manning but can resign Wayne, Mathis and Saturday, you put Luck into a better position to succeed. The Colts still have a lot of problems obviously, but he'd have veteran leadership around him in those guys. It reminds me of the situation Ben stepped into with the Steelers as a rookie. He was the young gun but the team had other veteran leadership in Bettis, Faneca, Ward, Porter, Farrior, Polamalu, etc. He got to learn and by the time those guys got older and some started leaving the team, he was ready to take over as team leader and is now surrounded by extremely talented younger players that he leads.

If I were in charge of the Colts, all sentimentality aside, I'd let Peyton walk, draft Luck, and try to keep some of those veteran players.

Part of the reason the Colts are so terrible this year is shell-shock from losing Peyton and also bad coaching. Caldwell was never programmed to have to deal without Manning, and the team lacked even a reasonable backup QB.

Plug Luck in and deal with one presumably bad year with him at the helm as he goes through growing pains. It's what they did with Peyton and after those initial growing pains, things worked out fairly well with him I'd say.

I fully expect Brady to play on another team before retiring.

As do I. Belichick has no sentimentality.

BradysKnee
12-08-2011, 08:59 AM
Miami - Eh, lukewarm. They'd probably want him more than he'd want them.

Cleveland - Not going to happen. Awful offensive supporting cast.

Houston - Why would they cut the younger and, prior to injury, well-playing Schaub for the older and coming-off-a-neck-injury Manning?

KC - Seems unlikely to me. Gut feeling is that he and Haley couldn't get along.

Washington - My #1 spot. While the offensive cast isn't great, Dan Snyder would shell out the big bucks and the offense would revolve around Peyton.

Seattle - My #2 spot. Peyton would push the Seahawks into division competition at the very least.

Tampa - No. Not with Freeman. He's still the franchise there.

San Fran - Will resign Alex Smith. Not better than Manning, but certainly cheaper. And like Haley, I think Peyton and Harbaugh's personalities would conflict a little.

Jacksonville - Peyton wouldn't go there.

Dallas - Interesting, but they would have to collapse miserably with Romo playing awful for them to move on. New coach though (Jeff Fisher?) if the Offensive Genius is fired, could also make them move on from Romo. Hard to say. Not impossible but unlikely I think.

My order if Peyton were straight up released would go:

1.) Washington
2.) Seattle
3.) Miami

Yeah I can agree about KC, Haley is an asshole.
Disagree about Houston and TB. With mandatory cap spending approaching i could see tampa signing him for 2-3 years at high numbers.
If I was Houston, a recovering Manning is leaps above an injury prone Schaub.

BeerBaron
12-08-2011, 09:02 AM
Yeah I can agree about KC, Haley is an asshole.
Disagree about Houston and TB. With mandatory cap spending approaching i could see tampa signing him for 2-3 years at high numbers.
If I was Houston, a recovering Manning is leaps above an injury prone Schaub.

The rumors that Peyton may have suffered some permanent weakness after the neck surgery have me a bit on edge about a team signing him.

Schaub has been pretty good, and this injury prone label is overstated. He started every game the previous two years and half of this season before the injury. He's more than adequate to pilot the offense with the talent around him. No need to splurge on a questionably healthy and older Manning. It wouldn't be enough of an upgrade imo.

Prowler
12-08-2011, 09:03 AM
There are no veteran leaders on the Colts. They are all borgs connected to the Manning supercomputer. Saturday will be gone soon, Freeney, Mathis, and Bethea are respected but not the same, and can only do so much. Wayne still has hands, but I don't trust him to be good a couple years from now.

The whole Tampa 2 undersized is good philosophy is a killer to aging stars. The Colts need to win now or completely rehaul for Luck. Indiana will not suffer another losing season, so they will go for it with Manning, while saving Luck up their sleeve for the future.

killxswitch
12-08-2011, 09:04 AM
I don't disagree that making decisions based on emotion can hurt the team. I just don't think that's going to stop Irsay from doing it anyway.

BeerBaron
12-08-2011, 09:09 AM
I don't disagree that making decisions based on emotion can hurt the team. I just don't think that's going to stop Irsay from doing it anyway.

I respect your opinions most among Colts fans as you seem to be the most reasonable, and I'm afraid you're going to be right in this one.

abaddon41_80
12-08-2011, 11:45 AM
As sad as it would be to see Manning leave the Colts, I would love him on the 49ers. A healthy Peyton Manning + this team = cancel the next few seasons and give the 49ers the Super Bowl, tbqh

Jvig43
12-08-2011, 11:54 AM
As sad as it would be to see Manning leave the Colts, I would love him on the 49ers. A healthy Peyton Manning + this team = cancel the next few seasons and give the 49ers the Super Bowl, tbqh

I love when people say things like this. We should of canceled the 2007 season and just let the Pats get the Lombardi trohpy...... I'd be ok with that.

Raiderz4Life
12-08-2011, 11:58 AM
Would New England give up on Tom Brady? No. Manning is going nowhere, salary hits are not even a factor in the discussion. It doesn't matter if Manning takes up 80% of the cap, he's going nowhere.

They are taking Luck and preparing for the future. Yes, he will sit. No, they don't care about trade offers for the pick.

Again, the only thing that could derail the situation is Luck being a diva, which he hasn't shown that side yet.

You keep saying these things like they're facts. Need to open your eyes and start seeing this situation isn't as simple as you think.

BeerBaron
12-08-2011, 11:58 AM
I love when people say things like this. We should of canceled the 2007 season and just let the Pats get the Lombardi trohpy...... I'd be ok with that.

This is why they play the games...

Prowler
12-08-2011, 12:42 PM
You keep saying these things like they're facts. Need to open your eyes and start seeing this situation isn't as simple as you think.

Other way around. I've grown up on the Colts and am as much expert on them as anyone else is to their teams. Manning will not be moved and Luck will be their heir. These are the Colts intentions. You guys can end the thread and all discussions unless Luck decides that he wants to force a trade. He has not indicated that he would and right now is only fanboy speculation so their favorite teams can get Manning.

Colts fans may root for their team to lose right now so we can secure Luck, but we are in no way rooting for a healthy Manning to be run out of town for some unproven rookie.

Prowler
12-08-2011, 12:49 PM
Remember, this is Indiana. Faithbased farming communities and all. 80% of the people here are probably rooting for Tebow and half the people are completely intolerant of any kind of change. They are nice people, but they embrace change slowly, kind of like 2 years slowly.

While I could see the front office theoretically dumping Manning and going with Luck, it completely runs counter to the psyche of the region. It will not happen. Manning would have to be declared unfit for football/retire or Luck would have to force the trade. Even with Luck threatening to not sign, he would still probably be drafted with the hope that the Colts would win 10 games like usual and he'd change his mind.

BeerBaron
12-08-2011, 12:52 PM
Yes, we should all take strict fans of a team at their word because blind homerism has never gotten in the way of logic, reason or common sense.

I'm not saying that you are or will be wrong. but if people are saying that I'm taking the "black" side of a black and white issue (I prefer to see it as very dark gray,) then you're taking the white side.

Neither one of us is right and speculation is what drives message boards like this one.

Prowler
12-08-2011, 01:00 PM
I'm thinking more along the lines of: your own teams blind you to the fact that the Indianapolis Colts will not sell Peyton Manning. The very idea that you guys think a different color exists probably distorts your views on the subject. It will not happen. I have moved on to the Lions and am not emotionally invested in the Colts anymore, but I completely understand the organization and they will not do it.

Half the dogs in Indiana are named Peyton or even Eli if there's two out of respect for Manning. He will not be kicked to the curb so some rookie can take over his house. Money is no object. Polian will get it done.

BeerBaron
12-08-2011, 01:02 PM
Polian shouldn't be allowed to be there to "get it done," nor would I trust him with a franchise at this point. His solution to every problem is to change the rules, not his broken system.

No one player...not even Peyton Manning....should be the difference between a playoff team and a potentially winless team.

I'd love for Polian to get fired mostly so he'd lose his spot on the competition committee. The guy cannot draft anymore and is the person most responsible for this this season.

Prowler
12-08-2011, 01:08 PM
I probably used the wrong name. Irsay has been the one pushing for Luck. Google some of his terrible 13 yr old girl spelling tweets. I think the entire idea is probably in his head, which means it'll definitely happen.

RCAChainGang
12-08-2011, 01:15 PM
Irsay will do anything to have Peyton retire a Colt. Peyton Manning has all the leverage here. The thing that is funny is that Polian and the rest of this **** front office have no leverage.

Peyton will be back and the first pick will be traded. If Irsay wants to keep Manning and have him retire a Colt then he will have to keep him for 2 years at least. Luck won't sit on the bench that long.

It is Luck or Manning. I hate it, but this is just how it is. I want desperately for Luck to sit behind Manning, but I just don't see it happening.

I think a better discussion is how many games can we win next year with Peyton? Will we make it to the playoffs? Polian is gonna be exposed for being an idiot who made one good pick.

BeerBaron
12-08-2011, 01:19 PM
I think a better discussion is how many games can we win next year with Peyton? Will we make it to the playoffs? Polian is gonna be exposed for being an idiot who made one good pick.

He just happened to take over the Colts when there was an all time great QB prospect available.

And he just happened to take over the Bills as Jim Kelly was ready to return to the NFL.

Nothing like stumbling into HoF caliber QBs right? And it certainly doesn't hurt that prior to selecting Manning, the previous regime left him with Marvin Harrison and Tarik Glenn.

Polian is about as overrated as they come. People like to credit him for winning one Superbowl. That's only true if you count the rule changes he forced beforehand to make it happen. And he's the reason they didn't win 2...or 3...or 4.....

His system of tiny defenders and finesse offensive players is broken and flawed.

I hope there's a special place in football hell for him.

RCAChainGang
12-08-2011, 01:20 PM
Oh and also if Irsay won't fire Polian or Caldwell then we will have another first round pick later on so no biggie.

boknows34
12-08-2011, 01:35 PM
1. Cut Manning and draft Luck
Colts save $6.6m in cap space, and $35m in cash on Manning.
Dead Cap space: $10m
Money would be there to re-sign FAs and start the rebuilding process around Luck.

2. Keep Manning and trade Luck.
Colts spend $35m in cash on Manning (bonus plus salary)
$17m would be Manning's cap number
No QB for the future unless they trade Luck on draft day to a team that holds the draft rights to Barkley/RG3.

3. Trade Manning in March 2012 and keep Luck
Colts spend $28m in roster bonus just to let Manning walk away to another team.
Dead Cap space: $38.8m
Little or no money to sign free agents.
Draft picks in 2012/13 draft to rebuild team around Luck.

4. Trade Manning in March 2013 and keep Luck
Colts pay $35m+ in cash for one season of Manning.
Dead cap space: $28m
Draft picks in 2013/14 to rebuild team around Luck.

5. Keep Manning for 2012 and 2013 while Luck sits.
Colts pay nearly $45m in cash to Manning and whatever Luck earns in two seasons to ride the bench. (Newton got $22m over 4 years with a $14.5m signing bonus).
$21m in cap space on Manning/Luck in 2012. Not sure about 2013.

Prowler
12-08-2011, 01:49 PM
The thing about the salary cap situation is that it's moot with an 0-16 season. There is only one person that matters and he's Peyton Manning. Reggie Wayne might as well be in Siberia right now. Also, the great thing about an undersized defense is that they are cheap and easily replaceable. Most of that defense can be replaced with mid-late round picks and undrafted free agents. They are already worst in the league, why keep them? If a player has to be sacrificed to keep Manning and ensure that the franchise never has another terrible season by drafting Luck, then who cares if Freeney and Mathis both get booted?

Ness
12-08-2011, 02:11 PM
Something dumb I heard a few days ago. I listen to the Dan Patrick show sometimes and they were talking about where Manning could potentially end up. Dan doesn't think Peyton is playing for the Colts again. Now that wouldn't be a big shock. He listed a few teams that he thought could be in the market for Peyton Manning if he were to leave the Colts, and one of his teams listed was New Orleans, and his co-workers on his show were pretty surprised. And Dan Patrick's only reasoning was "Oh I just have a feeling because of his heritage...New Orelans...you know....Drew Brees...contract issues...just saying". He also said someone close to the organization said "It's not as crazy as you think".

I usually respect what Dan has to say, but that was just outlandish.

Iamcanadian
12-09-2011, 09:04 AM
Put me down for Peyton getting cut and Luck being their QB next year. The only way Manning is back is if the doctors say he can play very effectively for the next 2 years. If there is even a hint that he won't be the same player, he and his humongous contract are gone.
Irsay isn't going to give Peyton 35 million dollars because people in Indiana eat his hot dogs, they'll only pay him if he can still deliver the goods.
Irsay said yesterday that it is very unlikely that Peyton can return this season so how sound is his body???
Under the rookie pay scale, Luck will make about 1/5 of what they are paying Manning and the other 30 million could be used to sign solid FA's to rebuild the team. It would be ludicrous to pay a weakened Peyton and have the team go 8-8 or worse yet, 6-10 after trading Luck for a few extra picks. Irsay would have to be prepared to see the value of his franchise sink by 2 or 3 hundred million dollars and it just isn't going to happen.
The more I think about the cost to keep Peyton, the more I become convinced that this is his last year in Indy. He will simply be cut because with his salary, he is untradable. That's simply football in the cap era.
As for Polian, poor Beer Baron, he will use the money saved by cutting Manning and drafting Luck, to bring Indy back to dominance and maybe even a Super Bowl or 2.

wogitalia
12-09-2011, 09:11 AM
Irsay said yesterday that it is very unlikely that Peyton can return this season so how sound is his body???

Blame Manning's body so that you don't risk winning a couple of games and missing Luck is just smart.

Be surprised if they trade/cut him if they think he can still play. Which makes it hard because basically you can't trade him and you have to risk a Drew Brees type of situation where you let a guy go or don't sign them because of health concerns and it could blow up in your face!

vidae
12-09-2011, 11:06 AM
Blame Manning's body so that you don't risk winning a couple of games and missing Luck is just smart.

Be surprised if they trade/cut him if they think he can still play. Which makes it hard because basically you can't trade him and you have to risk a Drew Brees type of situation where you let a guy go or don't sign them because of health concerns and it could blow up in your face!

Yeah but Brees was much younger than Peyton at the time so it was a bigger deal I think. Peyton won't be playing post-trade as long as Brees will/has.

Razor
12-09-2011, 11:30 AM
I really don't care about the cap hit if I'm the Colts' GM (hopefully it won't be Polian, that piece of ****). Even if you have Manning or Luck you're still going to suck next year. So take Luck, trade Manning and stock pile draft picks. Suck in 2012 and be ready for another 10+ years of success if Luck pans out. I think they'll be able to get more than a first rounder for Manning. They might even trade down and select Barkley over Luck and be just as good or better of in the long run. No matter what, going into 2012 with Manning as their starter and no heir apparent will mean a long period of sucking in Indy.

falloutboy14
12-09-2011, 11:55 AM
I'd love for Polian to get fired mostly so he'd lose his spot on the competition committee.

FWIW, Jeff Fischer is still on the competition committee even though he's not associated with any team. I don't see why Bill wouldn't do the same.

BeerBaron
12-09-2011, 11:58 AM
FWIW, Jeff Fischer is still on the competition committee even though he's not associated with any team. I don't see why Bill wouldn't do the same.

Fisher is in a non-voting role though.

Rosebud
12-09-2011, 11:41 PM
As for Polian, poor Beer Baron, he will use the money saved by cutting Manning and drafting Luck, to bring Indy back to dominance and maybe even a Super Bowl or 2.

You Canuckleheads are just adorable.

LonghornsLegend
12-10-2011, 12:28 AM
The only way Manning is back is if the doctors say he can play very effectively for the next 2 years.

I hear nearly everyone say this, and not to say it's wrong, but what everyone forgets is that even if a doctor does clear him it's a spinal cord injury. A doctor isn't going to be able to tell what happens the first time he takes a sack and gets slightly twisted up in a pile. It's something you can't really replicate.

Ness
12-10-2011, 12:46 AM
Manning is a great quarterback, but if I'm the Colts I'm leaning towards drafting Andrew Luck, giving Peyton the option of sticking around on the Colts roster and remaining the starter if he wants to be with the Colts, but knowing that Andrew is the future of the franchise. Manning is a professional and should know how the business works. It would really be surprising to me if he didn't already see that a change was going to come sooner or later with him nearing the end of his career. I would have this conversation with him first of course, but Manning is still a player when it's all said and done and he has no leeway in terms of decision-making. If he doesn't like it, then he can play somewhere else.

His age along with the fact that he's had I think three neck surgeries in less than two seasons should be two alarming red flags.

descendency
12-10-2011, 01:49 AM
It is Luck or Manning. I hate it, but this is just how it is. I want desperately for Luck to sit behind Manning, but I just don't see it happening.

You don't get the #1 overall pick because you are lacking 1 guy though. If you sit him on the bench for 2 years, it's like the Colts didn't even get a pick for those years.

Manning won't care for that and yes, he has the leverage.

The only way the Colts make the Andrew Luck pick is if they are willing to negotiate with Peyton and trade him where he wants or if they are willing to cut him. Otherwise, I just find it hard to believe that the Colts will let Andrew Luck "redshirt" for 2 years because of the cap situation.

Or would they bench Manning after next year until he agrees to a trade?

The Colts could end up in a Steve Young/Joe Montana situation. It's a nice problem to have I guess.

Ness
12-10-2011, 02:10 AM
You don't get the #1 overall pick because you are lacking 1 guy though. If you sit him on the bench for 2 years, it's like the Colts didn't even get a pick for those years.

Manning won't care for that and yes, he has the leverage.

The only way the Colts make the Andrew Luck pick is if they are willing to negotiate with Peyton and trade him where he wants or if they are willing to cut him. Otherwise, I just find it hard to believe that the Colts will let Andrew Luck "redshirt" for 2 years because of the cap situation.

Or would they bench Manning after next year until he agrees to a trade?

The Colts could end up in a Steve Young/Joe Montana situation. It's a nice problem to have I guess.
How does Peyton Manning have any leverage? He doesn't have the final say in anything.

WCH
12-10-2011, 04:05 AM
I'm thinking more along the lines of: your own teams blind you to the fact that the Indianapolis Colts will not sell Peyton Manning. The very idea that you guys think a different color exists probably distorts your views on the subject. It will not happen. I have moved on to the Lions and am not emotionally invested in the Colts anymore, but I completely understand the organization and they will not do it.

Half the dogs in Indiana are named Peyton or even Eli if there's two out of respect for Manning. He will not be kicked to the curb so some rookie can take over his house. Money is no object. Polian will get it done.

If Joe Montana and Brett Favre can be traded, so can Peyton Manning. Indiana certainly isn't more emotionally attached to Manning than Wisconsin was to Favre. Grown men cried and AR received threats from fans. Some Packer fans became Jets fans, then Vikings fans.

It's not like Peyton Manning shits skittles or something -- he's "only" the latest GoAT QB who's career is winding down.

TheFinisher
12-10-2011, 08:56 AM
I don't know if this changes anything but Luck came out and said he's willing to sit and learn behind an established vet.

Wherever Andrew Luck winds up in the NFL, the Stanford quarterback put to bed the notion that he's unwilling to coexist with an established veteran passer.

"I'm sure it would be a positive," Luck told The Baltimore Sun on Friday. "I'm sure it would all work out, whatever the situation is."

In an interview last week, Archie Manning hinted that his son, Peyton, and Luck would not want to play on the same team. One reason for that was Luck's ability to play right away, according to Archie. On the latter point, Luck seemed to agree.


"If you look at the league right now, all the rookies that are doing so well, I think it's very possible to start," Luck said.

Luck was in Baltimore to collect the the Johnny Unitas Golden Arm Award, given to college's top senior or fourth-year junior passer. During the event, he was photographed in a throwback Johnny Unitas jersey, an image that barnstormed Twitter and the web, but was only ceremonial according to Luck.

"I haven't really given much thought to the different scenarios of what could happen because I've got a bowl game to prepare for," he said.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d824e8167/article/luck-learning-from-veteran-qb-would-be-a-positive?module=HP11_headline_stack

descendency
12-10-2011, 11:22 AM
How does Peyton Manning have any leverage? He doesn't have the final say in anything.

If they don't cut him and lose all value on him by year's end, they will have 38 million in guarantees they owe him. So trading him becomes impossible. If Manning doesn't agree to be traded, the Colts are screwed.

Ultimately, the Colts will be forced to do 1 of 3 things if they want Luck: Cut Manning and lose all of his current value, negotiate a trade where he wants, or sit Luck for 2 years. Any other options incur a massive cap penalty.

hockey619
12-10-2011, 11:22 AM
I really don't care about the cap hit if I'm the Colts' GM (hopefully it won't be Polian, that piece of ****). Even if you have Manning or Luck you're still going to suck next year. So take Luck, trade Manning and stock pile draft picks. Suck in 2012 and be ready for another 10+ years of success if Luck pans out. I think they'll be able to get more than a first rounder for Manning. They might even trade down and select Barkley over Luck and be just as good or better of in the long run. No matter what, going into 2012 with Manning as their starter and no heir apparent will mean a long period of sucking in Indy.

why? because they sucked this year?

everyone keeps saying 'even if they had peyton this year the colts wouldve been bad, 6-10' or whatever and thats complete bull****.

This team is actually BETTER than the one that peyton steered to the playoffs last year if only because their stars are healthier than last year when guys were dropping in Packer-esque fashion. Its just that this team was being led by crappy qbs.

the seahawks may have had the worst record, but that colts team was decimated by injuries and was one of the worst playoff teams I can remember. I said it at the time and everyone knew it: they were in the playoffs but they were going no where.

H.O.O.D
12-10-2011, 11:58 AM
kinda skimmed through this...so not sure if this was posted already but...


According to ESPN's Adam Schefter, "the sense around the league" is that Peyton Manning will request a trade if the Colts draft Stanford QB Andrew Luck.
Schefter believes the Colts and Manning could agree to move back the March 8 deadline to exercise Manning's $28 million option bonus to buy more time to work out a trade. Although no one knows for certain what will happen, the possibility that Manning will be with a new team in 2012, assuming he can play, is growing increasingly likely. For his part, Luck has said learning under a veteran quarterback would be "a positive."

Complex
12-10-2011, 12:39 PM
Peyton is ******** if he moves back the deadline for his option.

49erNation85
12-10-2011, 03:21 PM
It is just simple move on and draft Luck let the new era begin in Indy. Manning does not have more then 3 years left if that. 3 neck injuries is just hard to much to back on . Plus they have more problems on that team then just QB.

Bucs_Rule
12-10-2011, 08:00 PM
From a football perspective cutting ties with Manning is clearly the best move. If the fans feel it is extremely disrespectful and could stop buying tickets out of disgust then from a PR move they need to keep him.

After their season is over the organization will be able to judge the fans reactions to the possibility as I'm sure it will get discussed a ton. Mannings opinion will matter, if he says its in the best interest of the team to start Luck from day 1 that will go a long way. If Manning says its disloyal they have to keep him.

Luck being such an outstanding prospect makes it easier.

descendency
12-10-2011, 10:14 PM
The Colts simply need to look back at the 49ers situation with Joe Montana.

Ness
12-11-2011, 12:15 AM
From a football perspective cutting ties with Manning is clearly the best move. If the fans feel it is extremely disrespectful and could stop buying tickets out of disgust then from a PR move they need to keep him.

After their season is over the organization will be able to judge the fans reactions to the possibility as I'm sure it will get discussed a ton. Mannings opinion will matter, if he says its in the best interest of the team to start Luck from day 1 that will go a long way. If Manning says its disloyal they have to keep him.

Luck being such an outstanding prospect makes it easier.

The 49ers fans didn't stop going to games when Joe Montana was traded to the Chiefs. The fans are the last people that have any leverage. People will go to games when the team wins, regardless of the circumstances.

Ness
12-11-2011, 12:20 AM
The Colts simply need to look back at the 49ers situation with Joe Montana.

It's a tad different because Steve Young was already on the team, had played for a few years, and was even the league MVP in 1992 while Montana was still on the team. Young wasn't the number one overall pick either.

Getting rid of Peyton Manning wouldn't necessarily work either. Luck could be a bust and it wouldn't be that surprising given what we've seen in the NFL. I still think taking him and looking towards the future is the right move though.

boknows34
12-15-2011, 08:47 AM
Jim Irsay at the NFL owners meeting:

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d8250d466/article/irsay-colts-ideally-want-manning-heir-apparent-on-2012-roster?module=News_CP

Irsay pointed to the Green Bay Packers' decision to draft Aaron Rodgers in the first round six years ago and sit him for several seasons behind Brett Favre, but added "obviously Aaron Rodgers wasn't the first pick in the draft." Irsay also noted the San Francisco 49ers had Joe Montana and Steve Young on the same roster, with the caveat that "of course that was an un-capped era."

So for now, there is uncertainty about the Colts' offseason.

"It's always difficult when you're transitioning through an era," Irsay said. "And where do eras begin, and where do they officially end, and all of those sorts of things.

"That remains to be seen, but the hope is, ideally, we've always thought having Peyton play well and retire on his own terms, and having his heir apparent there would be the ideal situation. Now can that happen and will that happen? There's just too many unknown variables right now to know if it will."

killxswitch
12-15-2011, 10:05 AM
He sounds a lot smarter when he's not on Twitter.