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Scott Wright
12-10-2011, 12:18 PM
The third mock draft of the year has been posted!

2012 Mock Draft - v.3.0
http://www.draftcountdown.com/sub/Mock-Draft-A.php

As always constructive criticism is not only welcomed but encouraged. However, please be sure to explain the reasoning behind your opinions just like I do in the mock or risk being infracted.

Let's keep this thread fun and informative!

Now... FIRE AWAY! :)

Scott Wright
12-10-2011, 12:19 PM
I pulled an all-nighter to knock this one out so I am going to grab a nap.

I will check in this evening to answer questions in this thread though.

coordinator0
12-10-2011, 12:33 PM
Perfect Ravens pick, and your explanation of other possible needs was spot-on as well.

regoob2
12-10-2011, 12:42 PM
You dont think Alshon Jeffery would be a better pick for Chicago?

vidae
12-10-2011, 01:05 PM
Mehhhh, not that NT isn't an issue for the Chiefs, because it is, but mehhh on Poe.

I'm not a big Reiff fan but would prefer him to Poe for sure.

This year the Chiefs could literally go in any direction though.

cmarq83
12-10-2011, 01:05 PM
Scott I really dislike this draft for the Patriots. For as terrible as the Patriots defense is DT and CB are really the only 2 spots where there is a good amount of talent. The Pats have McCourty, Arrington, and Dowling at corner, and while Dowling is hurt and McCourty has sucked this year, I think they'll be content to go into next year with that group. The only corner I could see going to the Pats in that range is Jenkins because of his talent level and the Urban Meyer-BB connection. Dennard isn't a good enough prospect to take with the talent the Pats have there now.

I like Thompson, but he really isn't what the Pats need. They need a pass rush sub to take the place of Mike Wright and Jarvis Green. Kyle Love and Vince Wilfork are the 2 best players on the Pats defense this year, so an upgrade is hardly a need. I'll take those 2, Deaderick, Brace, Warren, and Pryor next year as a rotation, so we can address other needs. The Pats need to go with the top back 7 talent they can get.

With the board shaking out that way I'd go Te'o and Upshaw and not look back.

PossibleCabbage
12-10-2011, 01:10 PM
I just had a forty minute discussion with some linguist friends about whether this "and" should be an "or" since this Philadelphia has never selected both an offensive lineman and a defensive lineman in the first round of the same draft.

Throughout the years this Philadelphia regime has also shown an inclination toward selecting offensive and defensive lineman in the first round

I'm not going to share any of it with you.

Anyway, nice work Scott.

Paul
12-10-2011, 01:11 PM
I understand the reasoning for the Cowboys pick, but CB and Interior Oline are MUCH bigger needs for us right now. Another rush backer would be nice, but with Decastro, Cordy Glenn, Janoris Jenkins and Dennard still on the board, I'll likely punt a small innocent creature if we didn't take one of them.

DeepThreat
12-10-2011, 01:14 PM
I can't argue with the picks based on who's available, but man, I want a quarterback.

And I would be shocked if the Browns end up picking so low. They have one winnable game left on the schedule.

Sloopy
12-10-2011, 01:18 PM
Not bad for the Ravens :)

On a side note, I was somewhat surprised that Mike Adams fell out of your round one. I like Zebrie and think he is well worth a late 1st but I consider Mike Adams to be one of the top OT prospects.

Just wondering what your thought process was :)

shylo3716
12-10-2011, 01:24 PM
I pulled an all-nighter to knock this one out so I am going to grab a nap.

I will check in this evening to answer questions in this thread though.

Cleveland picks are very understandable, especially Richardson at #6 but don't you think the Browns should take a guy like Tannehill with their 2nd pick, because he could potentially have a season under his belt ala Dalton. My understanding is that by bringing in both Richardson & Floyd there will be no excuses for McCoy next season.

Melvin Ingram- Not so much disputing anything on him but will he be projected as an OLB or that is just your assessment on him?

San Fran pick is very logical thinking on your behalf with Wright. I believe he would be very valuable in that spot due to the fact if they keep Ginn or not.

Still no "Miller Time" in the 1st, is he really that hard to project a 1st Round slot for?

Razor
12-10-2011, 01:32 PM
Scott I really dislike this draft for the Patriots. For as terrible as the Patriots defense is DT and CB are really the only 2 spots where there is a good amount of talent. The Pats have McCourty, Arrington, and Dowling at corner, and while Dowling is hurt and McCourty has sucked this year, I think they'll be content to go into next year with that group. The only corner I could see going to the Pats in that range is Jenkins because of his talent level and the Urban Meyer-BB connection. Dennard isn't a good enough prospect to take with the talent the Pats have there now.
I complete agree with this.

I like Thompson, but he really isn't what the Pats need. They need a pass rush sub to take the place of Mike Wright and Jarvis Green. Kyle Love and Vince Wilfork are the 2 best players on the Pats defense this year, so an upgrade is hardly a need. I'll take those 2, Deaderick, Brace, Warren, and Pryor next year as a rotation, so we can address other needs. The Pats need to go with the top back 7 talent they can get.

With the board shaking out that way I'd go Te'o and Upshaw and not look back.
I strongly disagree with this. I don't like Thompson at all. He has no pass rushing ability what so ever, so how would he be a penetrating 3-tech in sub packages? And why would we draft a third round talent in the first round? I'd go Kendall Wright with this pick the way the board is shaping up. Wright has a skill set that fits the NE offense and will infuse some youth into an aging group of receivers.

TACKLE
12-10-2011, 01:38 PM
Taze at 6? Huh? Am I missing something?

Burfict might be my favorite prospect in this draft but his stock is descending pretty significantly. His play had a notably dropped off this year as he wasn't even honorable mention All-Pac 12. I know you recognized it as a reach but 6th pick in the 2nd round seems far more likely at this point.

Some other picks here that seemed off but I'll let everyone else yell at you about those. :P

cmarq83
12-10-2011, 01:42 PM
I strongly disagree with this. I don't like Thompson at all. He has no pass rushing ability what so ever, so how would he be a penetrating 3-tech in sub packages? And why would we draft a third round talent in the first round? I'd go Kendall Wright with this pick the way the board is shaping up. Wright has a skill set that fits the NE offense and will infuse some youth into an aging group of receivers.

That was essentially my analysis. I was saying he couldn't do those things which is why we wouldn't take him. He's a rich man's Brandon Deaderick.

draftguru151
12-10-2011, 01:46 PM
Please let RG3 to Miami happen.

shylo3716
12-10-2011, 02:03 PM
Taze at 6? Huh? Am I missing something?

Burfict might be my favorite prospect in this draft but his stock is descending pretty significantly. His play had a notably dropped off this year as he wasn't even honorable mention All-Pac 12. I know you recognized it as a reach but 6th pick in the 2nd round seems far more likely at this point.

Some other picks here that seemed off but I'll let everyone else yell at you about those. :P

I will speak up on behalf of the Philly guys & myself. We are in dire need of a LB. Look at our roster & look at the value board and please tell me who do we select at #6, because no other position warrants any consideration for us that high. Scott is spot on for us especially that high, he wouldn't have gone wrong with Kuechly either, but I believe Burfict is spot on that high.

Miaoww
12-10-2011, 02:09 PM
I think Coples is a reach for Carolina. Hardy and Johnson aren't the problem with that defence, it's pretty much everyone else (bar Beason, Anderson and Gamble).

vidae
12-10-2011, 02:09 PM
If the Eagles need a LB that badly they can move back with KC! We'll move up, take RG3, and you can move back to the teens.

It's win win baby!

shylo3716
12-10-2011, 02:13 PM
If the Eagles need a LB that badly they can move back with KC! We'll move up, take RG3, and you can move back to the teens.

It's win win baby!

http://www.todscircus.com/wp-content/uploads/shake.jpg

Go_Eagles77
12-10-2011, 02:13 PM
I would throw my TV out the window if the eagles picked Burfict over RG3.

shylo3716
12-10-2011, 02:15 PM
I would throw my TV out the window if the eagles picked Burfict over RG3.

You really think we would consider taking RG3 in the Top 6 if we stay there?

Babylon
12-10-2011, 02:21 PM
Seattle

Just ok with the Landry Jones pick. Not that concerned about a few bad games this year because he really misses Broyles, just dont see the wow factor there. If i had to compare this pick on the upside i'd go back to the Giants drafting Phil Simms (that turned out well).

Local boy David DeCastro to the Titans is a great pick for all involved. Another local, Benji Olson, had a great career there. Hey Scott, did the Titans fans in here pay you off for that pick?

Go_Eagles77
12-10-2011, 02:26 PM
You really think we would consider taking RG3 in the Top 6 if we stay there?

Yes. RG3 is Andy Reid's wet dream (and mine, but I'm not making the picks for the eagles)

You honestly think the eagles would pick a LB in the top 10, let alone a LB whose value is probably in the late 1st/early 2nd range? (that's not even taking the serious character issues into account) They'll be just as well off grabbing a Te'o/Upshaw/Hightower in the 30s.

Plus they'll have a potentially elite young signal caller who is a perfect fit in our offense, who can sit behind Vick for a year or 2 (and start for the 6 or so games Vick is guarenteed to be hurt each year) then take over as the franchise QB (then probably trade Vick for a high round pick).

If our offense makes inaccurate QBs like McNabb and Vick look like top 5 QBs, imagine what RG3 can do here.

princefielder28
12-10-2011, 02:36 PM
Upshaw is a great choice for Green Bay

like that Zeitler got into round one as well

Csna
12-10-2011, 02:42 PM
If the Pats did draft a CB id rather have Minnifield then Dennard

bearsfan_51
12-10-2011, 02:45 PM
Not only is it updated, but Scott went into the future to do it!

(you have it listed as Dec 11)

Halsey
12-10-2011, 02:45 PM
The Vikings, Jaguars and Rams should all be trying to trade down. The Redskins should do whatever it takes to get the best QB they can get.

Razor
12-10-2011, 02:47 PM
That was essentially my analysis. I was saying he couldn't do those things which is why we wouldn't take him. He's a rich man's Brandon Deaderick.

You wrote that we need a sub package 3-tech iirc, and that's what I disagree with. I probably didn't phrase it they way I meant it. I'd say that Thompson and Deaderick will probably end up being similar players. I'm really down on Thompson, I think he's grossly overrated.

shylo3716
12-10-2011, 02:47 PM
Yes. RG3 is Andy Reid's wet dream (and mine, but I'm not making the picks for the eagles)

You honestly think the eagles would pick a LB in the top 10, let alone a LB whose value is probably in the late 1st/early 2nd range? (that's not even taking the serious character issues into account) They'll be just as well off grabbing a Te'o/Upshaw/Hightower in the 30s.

Plus they'll have a potentially elite young signal caller who is a perfect fit in our offense, who can sit behind Vick for a year or 2 (and start for the 6 or so games Vick is guarenteed to be hurt each year) then take over as the franchise QB (then probably trade Vick for a high round pick).

If our offense makes inaccurate QBs like McNabb and Vick look like top 5 QBs, imagine what RGB can do here.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_wQMTM54bNis/TCYXphkT1HI/AAAAAAAAAYo/3Vef2_IcEFI/s1600/Scratch+Head.jpg

Hmmmmm......You've got me thinking now, Tag DJack trade him for a LB, because the value will be there then draft RG3.

BRILLIANT thought process of RG3 on your behalf! where do we sign-up?

bearsfan_51
12-10-2011, 02:52 PM
A few thoughts:

-Blaine Gabbert is not anyone's "quarterback of the future." The Jaguars probably aren't ready to admit that, but with a new owner and coach, they might be. Either way, Gabbert is trash.
-Burfict at #6?!?! Are you sure this mock wasn't done 6 months ago?
-Someone will take Whitney Mercilus in the 1st round. Probably Jerel Worthy as well.

RaiderNation
12-10-2011, 02:57 PM
Very solid all around like usual Scott, good job.

Coples, Burfict and Jenkins are all to high IMO, they all seem to be rated in the 10-25 area on my big board.

Reiff is also a tad high, I have him ranked 4th behind Kalil, Martin and Adams at OT and he seems to be a 20-32 pick instead of going top 15.

cmarq83
12-10-2011, 03:16 PM
You wrote that we need a sub package 3-tech iirc, and that's what I disagree with. I probably didn't phrase it they way I meant it. I'd say that Thompson and Deaderick will probably end up being similar players. I'm really down on Thompson, I think he's grossly overrated.

I don't see how you could say that we don't need a sub-package 3-tech type. This year we've had no pass rush from the inside. Vince Wilfork and Kyle Love each have 2 sacks, and neither of them really collapses the pocket enough to disrupt passing plays. Even with a switch back to a 3-4 they'll still run a lot of 4 man lines.

In the past we've had smaller guys like Wright, Green, Warren, and Pleasant who've been relied on to work the inside and get pressure. This year there is nobody who can do that. I'd rather get somebody who can get pressure like Crick in the late 2nd than another sand in the pants type prototype 5-tech. There is a glaring need for an interior pass rusher on this roster, and I'd consider that a bigger need than another lineman for the base 3-4 front.

FUNBUNCHER
12-10-2011, 03:17 PM
I don't this draft is real strong at the top, the first 32 picks. Guys who are first rounders in 2012 wouldn't have been last year of the year before IMO.

Coples isn't a better athlete or DE prospect than the Bengals Michael Johnson who went in the 3rd round in '09.

Burfict has too many question marks to go top 10.
The best mock is always after the combine!!

Teo will go before Burfict, just a more reliable player with the same physical tools.
And I wouldn't be surprised if Kendall Wright goes top 15.

MicktheGreat
12-10-2011, 03:24 PM
Scott,

Absolutely LOVE the David DeCastro pick for the Titans. Our interior OL has played like crap for most of the season. Plus, two of our starters (Leroy Harris & Jake Scott) are likely free-agent departures this offseason; and our other interior OL (Eugene Amano) might get cut because he isn't playing anywhere close to the level that the Titans' paid him to play. Basically, it isn't completely outside the realm of possibility that the Titans could be looking for 3 new starting OL this offseason. [My only concern is that DeCastro won't last until the Titans' pick.]

Other positions of need:
-- pass-rushing DE
-- SS
-- WLB

Even assuming that the Titans re-sign Cortland Finnegan, Michael Griffin, & Jason Jones (which I think they will), the Titans' draft-day will probably be DEF heavy -- with the exception of interior OL (early) and WR/TE (mid-to-late).

M.O.T.H.
12-10-2011, 03:25 PM
I'm on board with Ingram to the Boys, Scott.

That said...Decastro or Cordy would be heavenly.

M.O.T.H.
12-10-2011, 03:27 PM
Cleveland picks are very understandable, especially Richardson at #6 but don't you think the Browns should take a guy like Tannehill with their 2nd pick, because he could potentially have a season under his belt ala Dalton. My understanding is that by bringing in both Richardson & Floyd there will be no excuses for McCoy next season.

Melvin Ingram- Not so much disputing anything on him but will he be projected as an OLB or that is just your assessment on him?

San Fran pick is very logical thinking on your behalf with Wright. I believe he would be very valuable in that spot due to the fact if they keep Ginn or not.

Still no "Miller Time" in the 1st, is he really that hard to project a 1st Round slot for?

Ingram can play in whatever scheme you want him too.

Razor
12-10-2011, 03:32 PM
I don't see how you could say that we don't need a sub-package 3-tech type. This year we've had no pass rush from the inside. Vince Wilfork and Kyle Love each have 2 sacks, and neither of them really collapses the pocket enough to disrupt passing plays. Even with a switch back to a 3-4 they'll still run a lot of 4 man lines.

In the past we've had smaller guys like Wright, Green, Warren, and Pleasant who've been relied on to work the inside and get pressure. This year there is nobody who can do that. I'd rather get somebody who can get pressure like Crick in the late 2nd than another sand in the pants type prototype 5-tech. There is a glaring need for an interior pass rusher on this roster, and I'd consider that a bigger need than another lineman for the base 3-4 front.
I really don't see how you can define a situational role as something we need. Especially when we have Myron Pryor who did just that for us on IR. Pass rush would be nice, but I'd rather have some 3 down linemen instead of a bunch of situational players. You can always get a quick penetrating 3-tech late or even as an UDFA. I we want to fix the pass rush there are more urgent needs that we need to take care of imo.

nepg
12-10-2011, 03:49 PM
The Panthers need a DT...they seem pretty set at DE. Though with the new rookie contracts, you can't go wrong with extra pass rushers at that point.

Landry Jones in the first round is drafting a QB just to draft one.

NT for the Chiefs in the first? Nah. They like Jerrel Powe a lot, and look good at the position with Gregg and Gordon while Powe develops. They have been working on Powe's body mostly, and you can see that from the few snaps he's been in the game this year. I'd roll with an OT (L or R) or one of the ILBs in that spot.

Don't see how Thompson fits, and I dislike your obsession with Clemson linemen. The Pats' primary needs are S, OLB, and a WR that can stretch the field. They're going back to their odd base. Won't hate on Dennard. I like him and CB isn't out of the question (though S is much bigger issue).

I think the rest of the mock is really good, though.

cmarq83
12-10-2011, 04:05 PM
I really don't see how you can define a situational role as something we need. Especially when we have Myron Pryor who did just that for us on IR. Pass rush would be nice, but I'd rather have some 3 down linemen instead of a bunch of situational players. You can always get a quick penetrating 3-tech late or even as an UDFA. I we want to fix the pass rush there are more urgent needs that we need to take care of imo.

We run more than half our plays out of nickel, and we're downright atrocious in 3rd down situations. An interior pass rusher is definitely a huge need. I'm not willing to bank on Myron Pryor who's been oft injured and only has 1 sack in his career to fill that role. One of the things that is lost on most is how consistently we've had that pass rushing inside guy in the past. Whether it was Pleasant in 2001, Warren and Green in mid 2000's, and Wright more recently they've always had an interior rusher until now.

While it may sound all well and good to try and get a 3 down guy, there really isn't anyone like that besides Still in this class. While there are other huge needs it might be very prudent to go with Crick, Worthy, or Winn at some point in the late second~3rd range. Improving the pass rush is going to take a cumulative effort, just getting one DE/OLB isn't really the solution.

Razor
12-10-2011, 04:23 PM
We run more than half our plays out of nickel, and we're downright atrocious in 3rd down situations. An interior pass rusher is definitely a huge need. I'm not willing to bank on Myron Pryor who's been oft injured and only has 1 sack in his career to fill that role. One of the things that is lost on most is how consistently we've had that pass rushing inside guy in the past. Whether it was Pleasant in 2001, Warren and Green in mid 2000's, and Wright more recently they've always had an interior rusher until now.

While it may sound all well and good to try and get a 3 down guy, there really isn't anyone like that besides Still in this class. While there are other huge needs it might be very prudent to go with Crick, Worthy, or Winn at some point in the late second~3rd range. Improving the pass rush is going to take a cumulative effort, just getting one DE/OLB isn't really the solution.

Now that we agree on 100%, but I just don't feel like we have to address it as early as you do. Right now we don't have a selection after the fourth round, but I'm sure it won't stay that way. Odds are that we can get someone like Derek Wolfe or Kheeston Randall late in the draft. Both those guys could do that and contribute as a 5-tech imo...

WT01
12-10-2011, 05:25 PM
The Seahawks wouldn't draft Jones in a million years. He's a garbage prospect.

bored of education
12-10-2011, 05:31 PM
I love Dontari Poe. He is a stud with a good understanding of football. Just not a frakishly big guy. Has some nuances that usually take guys years to develop like a swim move, ability to bull and read while disengaging. He could make that front line so much better opening things up inside for the ILBs to make unobstructed tackles.

The biggest thing with Dontari is that he can play three downs, he is a pretty good pass rusher for his size so he would not just be relegated to a 2 down type.

I ont see any ILB's or linemen available at the time so I go with best player that fits an immediate need, POE fits the bill

A++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

akvikefan89
12-10-2011, 07:36 PM
The Vikings, Jaguars and Rams should all be trying to trade down. The Redskins should do whatever it takes to get the best QB they can get.

I wouldn't want the Vikes to trade down if Kalil was on the board...

TitanHope
12-10-2011, 08:46 PM
DeCastro isnít the type of sexy pick that is going to excite a fan base...

You don't give the Titans fans enough credit!!!! :D

Nice add on about DE too. Definitely wanna see that addressed since Derrick Morgan has been average, Jason Jones moving to DE took away his athletic advantage that he had at DT, William Hayes is an average free agent, and Dave Ball has a degenerative back.

keylime_5
12-10-2011, 09:16 PM
no complaints about browns' draft. if the board falls that way i'd be ecstatic to make those pick. I have a hunch that Floyd is gonna go top 10 though despite his off-field and injury concerns.

TonyGfortheTD
12-10-2011, 09:44 PM
I like Poe and the Chiefs could use a NT, but top 15? Yikes.

shylo3716
12-10-2011, 09:47 PM
Can't wait for Scott to reply to us on our thoughts.

phlysac
12-10-2011, 10:15 PM
Intrigued by the Kendall Wright pick! My questions involves this...

with cornerback and defensive end qualifying as the most pressing concerns.

What concerns do you see at DE?

Don't trust the potential of Ricky Jean Francois, Demarcus Dobbs, Will Tukuafu, and Ian Williams?

WorldBFree
12-10-2011, 11:57 PM
I would rather have Adams than Zeitler.

MicktheGreat
12-11-2011, 12:41 AM
You don't give the Titans fans enough credit!!!! :D

Nice add on about DE too. Definitely wanna see that addressed since Derrick Morgan has been average, Jason Jones moving to DE took away his athletic advantage that he had at DT, William Hayes is an average free agent, and Dave Ball has a degenerative back.

I agree that DE is probably our second-most important need. If we can get more of a consistent pass-rush, that would go a very long way in improving our overall defense. As is, QBs are just getting too much time in the pocket to pick apart our relatively young DEF.

I'm not ready to give up on Morgan because the severity of his knee injury last year typically requires two full years to get back to normal. Jason Jones, while talented, has shown this season that he's truly a tweener -- he's too undersized/injury-prone to last at DT and he's not athletic enough to be a full-time DE. (I'm hoping that Jerry Gray moves him around on the DL more next season to cause match-up problems.)

I don't think Dave Ball will be back next year. He doesn't fit our system, he has a bad back, and he's got concussion issues as well. Who knows what we'll do with William Hayes? He's not great but he's cheap depth. Regardless, I think we bring in a couple DEs this offseason -- hopefully a pass-rushing rookie (or two) and a veteran too. Of course, it would be awesome if we could get Mario Williams or Calais Campbell, but I doubt that happens -- we'll probably try to snatch-up an underrated vet with ability (like we did with Kyle Vanden Bosch & Jason Babin).

Miaoww
12-11-2011, 03:10 AM
Very solid all around like usual Scott, good job.

Coples, Burfict and Jenkins are all to high IMO, they all seem to be rated in the 10-25 area on my big board.

Reiff is also a tad high, I have him ranked 4th behind Kalil, Martin and Adams at OT and he seems to be a 20-32 pick instead of going top 15.

Exactly. People see the Panthers needing defensive help so they just slot Coples in there. He's a big reach.

Scott Wright
12-11-2011, 04:54 AM
I understand the reasoning for the Cowboys pick, but CB and Interior Oline are MUCH bigger needs for us right now. Another rush backer would be nice, but with Decastro, Cordy Glenn, Janoris Jenkins and Dennard still on the board, I'll likely punt a small innocent creature if we didn't take one of them.

I completely agree that cornerback is the Cowboys most pressing need, but as of right now they are in no-man's land for that position in the middle of round one. There is a big gap after Claiborne and Kirkpatrick. In fact, there is a strong chance that neither Jenkins or Dennard will even be selected in the first round, let alone the top twenty.

As for an interior offensive lineman, I think DeCastro would make sense for the Cowboys. However, does anyone really think Jerry Jones will take a blocker with his top pick two years in a row after not doing it for like two decades? I doubt it.

Scott Wright
12-11-2011, 04:56 AM
Not bad for the Ravens :)

On a side note, I was somewhat surprised that Mike Adams fell out of your round one. I like Zebrie and think he is well worth a late 1st but I consider Mike Adams to be one of the top OT prospects.

Just wondering what your thought process was :)

There are mixed opinions on Mike Adams. Nobody denys the talent is there, but he is just too inconsistent and a bit of an underachiever. I wouldn't be shocked if Adams is in the late first round mix when all is said and done, but he has a lot of work to do at all-star games and workouts in the coming months because he isn't that highly regarded by scouts right now.

Scott Wright
12-11-2011, 05:01 AM
Melvin Ingram- Not so much disputing anything on him but will he be projected as an OLB or that is just your assessment on him?

Honestly, I am not sold that outside linebacker is going to be Ingram's best fit. That will have to be settled in the next few months when we get a chance to see him run through linebacker drills, etc. If I had to bet I'd say Ingram ends up as a defensive end in an even front, but linebacker is a real possibility. As I've said in the past, Ingram reminds me of Robert Ayers.

Still no "Miller Time" in the 1st, is he really that hard to project a 1st Round slot for?

I think Miami (FL) RB Lamar Miller is more of a second or third rounder right now.

Scott Wright
12-11-2011, 05:09 AM
Burfict might be my favorite prospect in this draft but his stock is descending pretty significantly. His play had a notably dropped off this year as he wasn't even honorable mention All-Pac 12. I know you recognized it as a reach but 6th pick in the 2nd round seems far more likely at this point.

Believe me, I knew having Burfict in the Top 10 was going to be a controversial projection. I am sure we will talk about it extensively on the podcast on Tuesday, but here is a quick synopsis on my feelings.

Burfict is a potentially elite talent at the inside linebacker position. More talented than Rolando McClain (#8 overall in 2010) and probably the best since Patrick Willis. Is he immature? Yes. Does he need to be coached up and learn to control his emotions? Absolutely. However, as I've said all along I would rather have to pull the reins because a guy is too aggressive than the other way around. It's not like Burfict is necessarily a bad person, he just let's his emotions get out of control. Ndamukong Suh might be the dirtiest player in the league and I am pretty sure every team in the league would love to have him on their roster. The other factor is that at this point in the process I can't really speak to Burfict's character. I know what I've seen on film, but I haven't talked to him or anyone who has. If once Burfict has some interviews with teams and I start getting bad reports about his character then I will probably start factoring that into the equation more but at this point I have no reason to believe there are any issues serious enough to torpedo his grade.

As I mentioned in the analysis of the mock, I fully understand Burfict is a reach as sixth overall. However, I legitimately think he is a top ten talent who has a shot to go in the top dozen picks to fifteen picks or so. Also, what would be a better fit for the Eagles?

Scott Wright
12-11-2011, 05:14 AM
-Blaine Gabbert is not anyone's "quarterback of the future." The Jaguars probably aren't ready to admit that, but with a new owner and coach, they might be. Either way, Gabbert is trash.

It's WAY too early to be writing off Blaine Gabbert, who is playing with a bad offensive line and the worst set of receivers in the league. I'll be the first to admit that Gabbert has looked bad at times as a rookie and the Jaguars are doing everything they can to ruin him, but give the kid a few years.

Someone will take Whitney Mercilus in the 1st round. Probably Jerel Worthy as well.

I just couldn't find a spot for Worthy. In fact, I had a tough time fitting both Still and Thompson in the first round. There just aren't many teams that need a 4-3 defensive tackle right now, at least not in round one.

Scott Wright
12-11-2011, 05:16 AM
I'm not going to name any names, but there is one teams fanbase that is vastly overrating their own players. Reminds me of a few years ago when Bills fans thought Terrence Metcalf was the second coming of Anthony Munoz.

Scott Wright
12-11-2011, 05:17 AM
The Seahawks wouldn't draft Jones in a million years. He's a garbage prospect.

Who can argue with in-depth analysis like that! :o)

Scott Wright
12-11-2011, 05:23 AM
Exactly. People see the Panthers needing defensive help so they just slot Coples in there. He's a big reach.

So if the Panthers don't take Coples at #6 then who do they take?

Obviously Claiborne would be the ideal fit but he may be gone. I guess they could reach for Kirkpatrick, but he is closer to the twentieth picks than the fifth. In fact, I really struggled with putting Kirkpatrick as high as tenth. There isn't a defensive tackle worthy of being selected that early, plus the Panthers just spent two premium draft choices on McClain and Fua less than eight months ago. Unless they can get Claiborne there really isn't an obvious fit where need and value come together for Carolina.

prock
12-11-2011, 05:23 AM
Obviously Kalil is the best pick for the Vikes, but who would you have us taking in round 2? Sanu? McDonald?

Scott Wright
12-11-2011, 05:26 AM
Obviously Kalil is the best pick for the Vikes, but who would you have us taking in round 2? Sanu? McDonald?

I would say that other than offensive tackle the Vikings biggest needs are wide receiver, cornerback and safety. In fact, the Vikes may need four new starters in the secondary. The back end of their defense is simply an embarrassment.

By the way, for those who are interested I will be adding a second round to the mock after I get back from the Senior Bowl. So early February, as per usual.

nepg
12-11-2011, 06:52 AM
So if the Panthers don't take Coples at #6 then who do they take?

Obviously Claiborne would be the ideal fit but he may be gone. I guess they could reach for Kirkpatrick, but he is closer to the twentieth picks than the fifth. In fact, I really struggled with putting Kirkpatrick as high as tenth. There isn't a defensive tackle worthy of being selected that early, plus the Panthers just spent two premium draft choices on McClain and Fua less than eight months ago. Unless they can get Claiborne there really isn't an obvious fit where need and value come together for Carolina.
Panthers are obviously in a position to trade down. Could easily see them swapping with Cleveland with RG3 right there then snagging Kirkpatrick at #9. How high Kirkpatrick goes almost entirely depends on his combine numbers.

In that scenario, the Seahawks likely get Coples and everyone's happy because no one's left drafting Landry Jones in the first round.

WT01
12-11-2011, 07:19 AM
Who can argue with in-depth analysis like that! :o)

I've stated before here that he doesn't fit what the Seahawks look for in a QB. They want guys who have the athleticism to routinely rollout of the pocket, make throws on the run and run for first downs when they can. Really you can say that the entire NFL is starting to lean in that direction, seeing as how the first five QBs taken last year all had quite a bit of athleticism yet the best pure passer in the group, Ryan Mallett, didn't go until the middle of the third. Jones isn't the statue that Mallett is, no, but he has almost none of the passer qualities that Mallett has either and one could see that after he lost his best receiver to injury.

Scott Wright
12-11-2011, 07:30 AM
The Seahawks wouldn't draft Jones in a million years. He's a garbage prospect.

Who can argue with in-depth analysis like that! :o)

I've stated before here that he doesn't fit what the Seahawks look for in a QB. They want guys who have the athleticism to routinely rollout of the pocket, make throws on the run and run for first downs when they can. Really you can say that the entire NFL is starting to lean in that direction, seeing as how the first five QBs taken last year all had quite a bit of athleticism yet the best pure passer in the group, Ryan Mallett, didn't go until the middle of the third. Jones isn't the statue that Mallett is, no, but he has almost none of the passer qualities that Mallett has either and one could see that after he lost his best receiver to injury.

That's better, and good point too!

I guess my argument would be that even if Jones isn't the ideal scenario for the Seahawks he is still much better than what the Seahawks currently have. After all, it's not like they can do into next season with Tavaris Jackson and Charlie Whitehurst again.

Perhaps the Seahawks will wait and target a guy like Ryan Tannehill in the second round, although I am not sure he makes it to the middle of round two. That could end up being Seattle's only option though if Jones goes back to school, which I believe is a distinct possibility.

shylo3716
12-11-2011, 07:44 AM
Cleveland picks are very understandable, especially Richardson at #6 but don't you think the Browns should take a guy like Tannehill with their 2nd pick, because he could potentially have a season under his belt ala Dalton. My understanding is that by bringing in both Richardson & Floyd there will be no excuses for McCoy next season.

Scott what are your thoughts on the McCoy/Browns scenario, because I feel as though this is big.

bearsfan_51
12-11-2011, 07:53 AM
Was it too early to give up on Jimmy Clausen? If not, it's not too early to give up on Blaine Gabbert. (I know, Clausen was a 2nd round pick, but still)

When someone is terrible, they're just terrible. You can wait 3 more years to figure that out, or you can move on.

Had Carolina passed on Newton because they had Clausen that would have been a terrible mistake.

NGSeiler
12-11-2011, 07:58 AM
Morris Claiborne is a very real possibility for the Rams, given the health concerns regarding Ron Bartell and Bradley Fletcher. I absolutely understand the pick. But I'd be lying if I said coming out of the first round without help for this pathetic offense wasn't painful. It's a shame this team still has so many needs three years into the Spags regime.

TACKLE
12-11-2011, 08:01 AM
Was it too early to give up on Jimmy Clausen? If not, it's not too early to give up on Blaine Gabbert. (I know, Clausen was a 2nd round pick, but still)

When someone is terrible, they're just terrible. You can wait 3 more years to figure that out, or you can move on.

Had Carolina passed on Newton because they had Clausen that would have been a terrible mistake.

A good article on this very subject. If they went through with it, it would set a new precedent and I would give them a lot of credit for doing so.

http://www.jaguarsblog.com/sunk-costs-for-a-sinking-franchise/#.TuFVPPK1XKd

Matthew Jones
12-11-2011, 08:34 AM
I'm starting to think Brandon Thompson might be able to fit as a two-gap defensive end in New England, but Alfonzo Dennard would be a brutal pick. The Patriots have McCourty and Dowling as their two starting cornerbacks moving forwards and Kyle Arrington has had an amazing season this year (46.9 QB rating against with seven interceptions); Arrington projects as a great fit in the slot. Depth is an issue, but nowhere near a first-round issue. Courtney Upshaw would be a good fit there; he has bulk and experience playing in Nick Saban's 3-4 defense.

shylo3716
12-11-2011, 08:44 AM
Morris Claiborne is a very real possibility for the Rams, given the health concerns regarding Ron Bartell and Bradley Fletcher. I absolutely understand the pick. But I'd be lying if I said coming out of the first round without help for this pathetic offense wasn't painful. It's a shame this team still has so many needs three years into the Spags regime.

My question to you is will the Rams make him the highest CB selected since Shawn Springs?

bearsfan_51
12-11-2011, 09:05 AM
A good article on this very subject. If they went through with it, it would set a new precedent and I would give them a lot of credit for doing so.

http://www.jaguarsblog.com/sunk-costs-for-a-sinking-franchise/#.TuFVPPK1XKd
Exactly. Drafting Gabbert was a mistake (in my opinion). You don't compound that mistake by forcing yourself to live with it for the next 3-4 years.

Whoever is coaching the Jaguars next year won't have picked Gabbert, and the new owner won't have spent a single dime on him. I think it's misguided to think that anyone in the new Jaguars organization has any loyalty to him.

Trogdor
12-11-2011, 09:05 AM
I completely agree that cornerback is the Cowboys most pressing need, but as of right now they are in no-man's land for that position in the middle of round one. There is a big gap after Claiborne and Kirkpatrick. In fact, there is a strong chance that neither Jenkins or Dennard will even be selected in the first round, let alone the top twenty.

As for an interior offensive lineman, I think DeCastro would make sense for the Cowboys. However, does anyone really think Jerry Jones will take a blocker with his top pick two years in a row after not doing it for like two decades? I doubt it.

After watching this season can Jerry really afford to ignore the interior line? If DeCastro falls all the way to Dallas they cannot afford to pass. Besides it's well documented that the 'Boys war-room is run by consensus not solely by Jones; so the lack of interior line picks falls on the shoulders of the previous scouting teams, coaching staffs, as well as Jerry.

Don't get me wrong I can perfectly understand bringing in someone like Ingram I just see a lot more solid pass rushers in this draft than depth on the interior line. :)

Sloopy
12-11-2011, 09:12 AM
There are mixed opinions on Mike Adams. Nobody denys the talent is there, but he is just too inconsistent and a bit of an underachiever. I wouldn't be shocked if Adams is in the late first round mix when all is said and done, but he has a lot of work to do at all-star games and workouts in the coming months because he isn't that highly regarded by scouts right now.

Thanks Scott :) your not wrong. I've been projecting him higher based on my belief that he will impress in the off season but if your going on his stock now early second is about right.

Sloopy
12-11-2011, 09:25 AM
Exactly. Drafting Gabbert was a mistake (in my opinion). You don't compound that mistake by forcing yourself to live with it for the next 3-4 years.

Whoever is coaching the Jaguars next year won't have picked Gabbert, and the new owner won't have spent a single dime on him. I think it's misguided to think that anyone in the new Jaguars organization has any loyalty to him.

It's not wrong and I see the author's point, however, I don't agree with it; even though I hate Gabbert as well.

You can argue that improving the roster is the GM's job and that improving the QB position might be his most important. However, sunken costs isn't the only argument against it.

A. a greater net gain for the team can probably be found elsewhere, adding to another position such as receiver.

B. Drafting even a good QB into this situation and starting him is a terrible idea.

I wouldn't be absolutely opposed to the idea of drafting a QB I just think that the Jags might be one of the biggest stages set up for a young QB to fail as is out there right now.

NGSeiler
12-11-2011, 09:29 AM
My question to you is will the Rams make him the highest CB selected since Shawn Springs?

If Ron Bartell doesn't come back from his neck injury and Bradley Fletcher doesn't look the same after his second ACL tear, then maybe. The situation is complicated by the Rams having little quality depth behind those two at the position.

It's hard to get a read on anything, because it's entirely possible (if not probable) that the Rams are ushering in a new GM and head coach next year. My preference would be for Blackmon or Kalil, if he somehow got by Minnesota, and address the CB position later in the draft or free agency. But I do think Claiborne is an option depending on how things shake out.

bearsfan_51
12-11-2011, 09:32 AM
It's not wrong and I see the author's point, however, I don't agree with it; even though I hate Gabbert as well.

You can argue that improving the roster is the GM's job and that improving the QB position might be his most important. However, sunken costs isn't the only argument against it.

A. a greater net gain for the team can probably be found elsewhere, adding to another position such as receiver.

B. Drafting even a good QB into this situation and starting him is a terrible idea.

I wouldn't be absolutely opposed to the idea of drafting a QB I just think that the Jags might be one of the biggest stages set up for a young QB to fail as is out there right now.
I don't think you could possibly have a greater net gain than replacing Gabbert. There's absolutely no question that quarterback is the most important position on the football team. You win and lose more games from that single position than any other and it's not even close.

That's fact #1, and it's indisputable. The second question that needs to be asked is if Gabbert is the worst starter on the Jaguars. In my opinion he is. Even if he's not, I think you win more games by replacing him than anyone else.

This situation parallels the Carolina Panthers situation last year, and the Panthers absolutely made the right choice.

Let's not dilute the fact that Gabbert was awful simply by blaming his supporting cast. If you watched even one Jaguars game this year you'd see someone who is absolutely terrible in every conceivable way.

Shane P. Hallam
12-11-2011, 09:37 AM
Exactly. Drafting Gabbert was a mistake (in my opinion). You don't compound that mistake by forcing yourself to live with it for the next 3-4 years.

Whoever is coaching the Jaguars next year won't have picked Gabbert, and the new owner won't have spent a single dime on him. I think it's misguided to think that anyone in the new Jaguars organization has any loyalty to him.

I think its misguided to think the GM that picked him, Gene Smith, would give up on him. He won't, he likes him and won't admit to failure.

Sloopy
12-11-2011, 09:39 AM
I don't think you could possibly have a greater net gain than replacing Gabbert. There's absolutely no question that quarterback is the most important position on the football team. You win and lose more games from that single position than any other and it's not even close.

That's fact #1, and it's indisputable. The second question that needs to be asked is if Gabbert is the worst starter on the Jaguars. In my opinion he is. Even if he's not, I think you win more games by replacing him than anyone else.

This situation parallels the Carolina Panthers situation last year, and the Panthers absolutely made the right choice.

Let's not dilute the fact that Gabbert was awful simply by blaming his supporting cast. If you watched even one Jaguars game this year you'd see someone who is absolutely terrible in every conceivable way.

I have and a definitely hate Gabbert.

However, as a GM I would improve the rest of my team first, it's not like your going to get Luck here and Barkley returns to school in my mind.

I love me some RGIII and maybe he could help but I think he will still need some development and throwing him into that situation could seriously stunt him.

Who else would you get? Jones? you might be looking at another Gabbert there

I'm not opposed to the idea, I just don't really see it working out if they go that route

Miaoww
12-11-2011, 10:30 AM
Was it too early to give up on Jimmy Clausen? If not, it's not too early to give up on Blaine Gabbert. (I know, Clausen was a 2nd round pick, but still)

When someone is terrible, they're just terrible. You can wait 3 more years to figure that out, or you can move on.

Had Carolina passed on Newton because they had Clausen that would have been a terrible mistake.

I think it was too early to give up on Clausen. He'll get another shot in the league and he'll have a reasonable career in the right offence. The difference is that Clausen was a 2nd round pick, he's making peanuts (relatively). Gabbert was a top 10 pick.

Miaoww
12-11-2011, 10:32 AM
Panthers are obviously in a position to trade down. Could easily see them swapping with Cleveland with RG3 right there then snagging Kirkpatrick at #9. How high Kirkpatrick goes almost entirely depends on his combine numbers.

In that scenario, the Seahawks likely get Coples and everyone's happy because no one's left drafting Landry Jones in the first round.

Took the words right out of my mouth. In that situation the Panthers trade down to someone that loves RG3. I'm not a huge fan of Kirkpatrick or Claiborne, but they're better selections than Coples.

I'd take a long, hard look at DeCastro if the Panthers do trade down. They need defensive help, sure, but DeCastro would really solidify that O-line to one of the best in the league.

boknows34
12-11-2011, 11:12 AM
Pro Football Weekly on #Jaguars in 2012 draft: "Gene Smith would not hesitate to select someone like Matt Barkley, if Barkley is (BPA)."

bearsfan_51
12-11-2011, 11:32 AM
I think its misguided to think the GM that picked him, Gene Smith, would give up on him. He won't, he likes him and won't admit to failure.
So Gene Smith is going to hire a coach and make him start Gabbert?

Sloopy
12-11-2011, 11:40 AM
So Gene Smith is going to hire a coach and make him start Gabbert?

Wouldn't be the first GM to do such a thing

boknows34
12-11-2011, 11:44 AM
A league source expressed skepticism to ESPN Florida that Blaine Gabbert has what it takes to make it in the pros.
"The guy sees ghosts in the pocket," said the source. "I'm not sure if you can teach courage." ESPN Florida's Charlie Bernstein believes it's a "real possibility" that the Jaguars might quickly cut their losses with Gabbert and drafted a first-round quarterback for a second straight year. Added Greg Cosell of NFL Films recently, "I will say unequivocally that (Gabbert) will not make it in this league as a starting NFL quarterback."

rotoworld.com

Scott Wright
12-11-2011, 11:48 AM
A league source expressed skepticism to ESPN Florida that Blaine Gabbert has what it takes to make it in the pros.
"The guy sees ghosts in the pocket," said the source. "I'm not sure if you can teach courage." ESPN Florida's Charlie Bernstein believes it's a "real possibility" that the Jaguars might quickly cut their losses with Gabbert and drafted a first-round quarterback for a second straight year. Added Greg Cosell of NFL Films recently, "I will say unequivocally that (Gabbert) will not make it in this league as a starting NFL quarterback."

rotoworld.com

I would be seeing ghosts in the pocket too if I had one of the worst offensive lines in the league and undoubtedly the worst wide receiver corps. So let's see, a rookie from a spread college system is unexpectedly thrust into action a year before he was supposed to be with no protection and no weapons to throw to. Oh, and they fire his coach halfway through the season too. And you wonder why the kid is struggling. Talk about Bad QB Handling 101.

Sloopy
12-11-2011, 11:52 AM
I would be seeing ghosts in the pocket too if I had one of the worst offensive lines in the league and undoubtedly the worst wide receiver corps. So let's see, a rookie from a spread college system is unexpectedly thrust into action a year before he was supposed to be with no protection and no weapons to throw to. Oh, and they fire his coach halfway through the season too. And you wonder why the kid is struggling. Talk about Bad QB Handling 101.

My thoughts exactly, and I really Don't see how much more could you can gain from thrusting another QB into the same situation

boknows34
12-11-2011, 11:58 AM
I would be seeing ghosts in the pocket too if I had one of the worst offensive lines in the league and undoubtedly the worst wide receiver corps. So let's see, a rookie from a spread college system is unexpectedly thrust into action a year before he was supposed to be with no protection and no weapons to throw to. Oh, and they fire his coach halfway through the season too. And you wonder why the kid is struggling. Talk about Bad QB Handling 101.

I agree. The whole thing has been very poorly handled by the Jags. Gabbert was put into a hopeless situation and set up for failure.

TheSlinger
12-11-2011, 12:05 PM
I agree. The whole thing has been very poorly handled by the Jags. Gabbert was put into a hopeless situation and set up for failure.

It's almost comical how stacked the deck has been.

- Lame duck HC so he couldn't put together an offensive staff. We had the Bengals' former WR coach as QB coach, and our former offensive quality control coach as WR coach
- 5th youngest QB to ever start a game
- Wasn't supposed to play at all but BOTH Garrard and McCown blew it (is anybody calling Locker or Kaepernick busts? No, because their vet QBs are playing well)
- No off-season
- Brutal opening schedule (will get softer to end the season)
- Worst WR corps in the league. They've picked up the Rams and Browns scraps (MSW and Brian Robiskie)... that should tell you all you need to know.

shylo3716
12-11-2011, 12:12 PM
Turned the Mock Thread into a Gabbert Thread SMH.

Babylon
12-11-2011, 12:15 PM
Exactly. Drafting Gabbert was a mistake (in my opinion). You don't compound that mistake by forcing yourself to live with it for the next 3-4 years.

Whoever is coaching the Jaguars next year won't have picked Gabbert, and the new owner won't have spent a single dime on him. I think it's misguided to think that anyone in the new Jaguars organization has any loyalty to him.

He may well have been a mistake and you're right the new regime has no loyalty but for God's sake give the guy a little more than 12 games to prove he's lousy.

FUNBUNCHER
12-11-2011, 12:34 PM
What hurts Gabbert is even when he does have time, he plays rushed and frantic and he looked the EXACT same at Mizzou.

He may never improve in that aspect of the game, feeling confident in the pocket, but I just can't see a GM dumping a top 10 pick after his rookie year.

nepg
12-11-2011, 01:21 PM
That's better, and good point too!

I guess my argument would be that even if Jones isn't the ideal scenario for the Seahawks he is still much better than what the Seahawks currently have. After all, it's not like they can do into next season with Tavaris Jackson and Charlie Whitehurst again.

Perhaps the Seahawks will wait and target a guy like Ryan Tannehill in the second round, although I am not sure he makes it to the middle of round two. That could end up being Seattle's only option though if Jones goes back to school, which I believe is a distinct possibility.

This kind of logic works in the second round and later, but not when you're talking about a first round QB. A first round QB can't be a JAG that's better than your current JAG.

nepg
12-11-2011, 01:23 PM
I would be seeing ghosts in the pocket too if I had one of the worst offensive lines in the league and undoubtedly the worst wide receiver corps. So let's see, a rookie from a spread college system is unexpectedly thrust into action a year before he was supposed to be with no protection and no weapons to throw to. Oh, and they fire his coach halfway through the season too. And you wonder why the kid is struggling. Talk about Bad QB Handling 101.
He's been doing that since college...when he had one of the best lines in the Big XII. It's not something that's developed recently. I think Gabbert will be a good QB, but the things that are wrong with him now have always been issues. They're things that might not be fixable.

bearsfan_51
12-11-2011, 01:55 PM
He may well have been a mistake and you're right the new regime has no loyalty but for God's sake give the guy a little more than 12 games to prove he's lousy.
Why? I've seen enough. Did the Raiders make the right decision by giving Jamarcus Russel so many years? When someone sucks, they suck.

As per the other poster regarding Jimmy Clausen, I would be surprised if Clausen is still in the league in five years. He's one of the worst starting quarterbacks I've ever seen.

TACKLE
12-11-2011, 01:57 PM
I would be seeing ghosts in the pocket too if I had one of the worst offensive lines in the league and undoubtedly the worst wide receiver corps. So let's see, a rookie from a spread college system is unexpectedly thrust into action a year before he was supposed to be with no protection and no weapons to throw to. Oh, and they fire his coach halfway through the season too. And you wonder why the kid is struggling. Talk about Bad QB Handling 101.

Well what you would do as an NFL QB is completely irrelevant.

But maybe you're right...if you can't even admit you were wrong about Gabbert, how can we expect the guy who drafted him to? Current situation considered, I just don't know how anyone could watch him play this year and think that he could develop into a competent starting QB.

Scott Wright
12-11-2011, 02:49 PM
I bet a lot of people would probably give up on the rookie quarterback with this stat line too:

10 GS | 47.5% Comp | 7 TD / 14 INT

That was John Elway in 1983.

bearsfan_51
12-11-2011, 02:55 PM
I bet a lot of people would probably give up on the rookie quarterback with this stat line too:

10 GS | 47.5% Comp | 7 TD / 14 INT

That was John Elway in 1983.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Outlier

"ZOMG! Kurt Warner went from bagging groceries to winning the Superbowl. Let's go down to Save-A-Lot and find our new franchise QB!!"

bearsfan_51
12-11-2011, 03:11 PM
I have and a definitely hate Gabbert.

However, as a GM I would improve the rest of my team first, it's not like your going to get Luck here and Barkley returns to school in my mind.

I love me some RGIII and maybe he could help but I think he will still need some development and throwing him into that situation could seriously stunt him.
I have RGIII ahead of Barkley personally, but I'd take either in the top 10 if I needed a QB. Both are better prospects coming out than Gabbert was (as is Landry Jones)

I'm curious why you think RGIII would need an abnormal amount of development, however. He has a ton of experience in college and is a very accurate passer. People are mistaken if they think he just gets by on freaky athletic ability.

Shane P. Hallam
12-11-2011, 03:26 PM
So Gene Smith is going to hire a coach and make him start Gabbert?

Probably will be a question during the interview process. It's Gene Smith's call to take a QB, and he won't early in the draft.

keylime_5
12-11-2011, 03:30 PM
I bet a lot of people would probably give up on the rookie quarterback with this stat line too:

10 GS | 47.5% Comp | 7 TD / 14 INT

That was John Elway in 1983.

i agree with what you say about Gabbert....however it was a different game back then in the passing game and with what rookie QBs could do, and if Gabbert did in college what Elway did in college then people wouldn't be calling Gabbert a bust already no matter how unfair it is. I don't like comparing QBs stats from before the 90s to QB stats today. Go look at Archie Manning and Joe Namath's stats from their career and you'll see what I mean.

I think Gene Smith won't draft another QB even if his new coach pleads for one. Guy isn't gonna surrender that quickly. He'll try to bring in a bunch of WR and OLine talent before he thinks about drafting another 1st round QB I'll betcha.

CashmoneyDrew
12-11-2011, 03:45 PM
DeCastro is the sexiest of sexy picks for the Titans.

Caulibflower
12-11-2011, 05:42 PM
Scott: Do you just hate the Seahawks or something? You always always seem to give us the "Well, the good players at X position are gone, but the Seahawks have a need and a lot of people think player Y could go in the first, so the Seahawks take him." I mean, do just have that low of an opinion of our front office, or do you just not care what happens in the Pacific NW and want to save the more exciting picks in the mock for teams you like better?

PossibleCabbage
12-11-2011, 07:57 PM
Because this is the Gabbert thread, doesn't anybody else remember that the consensus on him when he declared last year was "he should have gone back to school for another year"?

Why can't we just count this as a sort of "redshirt year" and just wait to see if he actually can play? It's not like this "no offseason" thing is really all that easy on the rookie signal callers.

Sloopy
12-11-2011, 09:14 PM
I have RGIII ahead of Barkley personally, but I'd take either in the top 10 if I needed a QB. Both are better prospects coming out than Gabbert was (as is Landry Jones)

I'm curious why you think RGIII would need an abnormal amount of development, however. He has a ton of experience in college and is a very accurate passer. People are mistaken if they think he just gets by on freaky athletic ability.

I think he has all of the tools, I never said he needed an abnormal amount of development but there will inevitably be growing pains with the switch. Again, this is nothing against him.

I just happen to think any young QB would struggle with that team so why not improve the team before throwing another QB to the wolves? It's not like they have a shot at Luck and will be missing out on an insane opportunity if they went anther direction

Scott Wright
12-11-2011, 10:39 PM
Scott: Do you just hate the Seahawks or something? You always always seem to give us the "Well, the good players at X position are gone, but the Seahawks have a need and a lot of people think player Y could go in the first, so the Seahawks take him." I mean, do just have that low of an opinion of our front office, or do you just not care what happens in the Pacific NW and want to save the more exciting picks in the mock for teams you like better?

I have a hard time respecting the opinions of people who thought Tavaris Jackson was a starting quarterback in the National Football League. I am only half kidding. :o)

Scott Wright
12-11-2011, 10:40 PM
Because this is the Gabbert thread, doesn't anybody else remember that the consensus on him when he declared last year was "he should have gone back to school for another year"?

Why can't we just count this as a sort of "redshirt year" and just wait to see if he actually can play? It's not like this "no offseason" thing is really all that easy on the rookie signal callers.

It was a pretty big surprise. It happened shortly after Luck announced he was going back to Stanford, so the word was Gabbert saw that opportunity and seized it.

DraftSavant
12-11-2011, 11:10 PM
I would be seeing ghosts in the pocket too if I had one of the worst offensive lines in the league and undoubtedly the worst wide receiver corps. So let's see, a rookie from a spread college system is unexpectedly thrust into action a year before he was supposed to be with no protection and no weapons to throw to. Oh, and they fire his coach halfway through the season too. And you wonder why the kid is struggling. Talk about Bad QB Handling 101.

No argument about the wide receivers, but that bit about the offensive line is unequivocally false. This is classic case of the quarterback making the o-line look worse than they are in pass protection.

Throw a QB in there who keeps his eye level downfield instead of looking at the rush, and you'll see the sack numbers drop.

And, as many have said, these are issues that were evident in his college tape. This is an ingrained playing style for him that goes back years; it will be incredibly difficult to break those habits.

essential
12-12-2011, 08:14 AM
I don't understand this and it always frustrates me ...

Scott, in your last mock, you gave the Bills (in the early 20s at the time) Riley Reiff. Now, at #13, you give the Bills Riley Reiff. Shouldn't moving up 10 picks change the player? This always frustrates me ... has Reiff's stock gone up as well since your last mock, if he's worth #13 how did he last till the early 20's in the last mock?

I don't hate the pick, I just get frustrated when a team is given the same player in every mock no matter where they are picking. I remember two years ago you gave the Bills Bryan Bulaga no matter where they were projected to pick, from the mid 20's all the way up to #9 (we started off 5-1 that year and collapsed, very similar to this year).

When the Bills don't win another game this year (more than likely) and we end up picking #7, are we still going to be projected to take Reiff?

K Train
12-12-2011, 09:04 AM
not a fan of zeitler in round one at all....give me mike adams there

HorusKing
12-12-2011, 11:24 AM
I like the choice of a WR for the Houston Texans but not the player he will not test out good because he isn't in shape and is slow. I think that Kendall Wright makes more since or maybe even Tommy Streeter who is going to blow it out during his workout with his size & speed will be unmatched.

redbills
12-12-2011, 11:29 AM
Bills need to draft all D again. Bell just got back to playing after getting hurt a while ago and he is always hurt it seems like. We have our future RT in Harrison our 4th R pick last yr. We need pass rush or if RGIII is there we will be all over him imo.

Shane P. Hallam
12-12-2011, 12:04 PM
I don't understand this and it always frustrates me ...

Scott, in your last mock, you gave the Bills (in the early 20s at the time) Riley Reiff. Now, at #13, you give the Bills Riley Reiff. Shouldn't moving up 10 picks change the player? This always frustrates me ... has Reiff's stock gone up as well since your last mock, if he's worth #13 how did he last till the early 20's in the last mock?

I don't hate the pick, I just get frustrated when a team is given the same player in every mock no matter where they are picking. I remember two years ago you gave the Bills Bryan Bulaga no matter where they were projected to pick, from the mid 20's all the way up to #9 (we started off 5-1 that year and collapsed, very similar to this year).

When the Bills don't win another game this year (more than likely) and we end up picking #7, are we still going to be projected to take Reiff?

Reiff has moved up a bit as well, still fits.

gpngc
12-12-2011, 12:23 PM
**** everything about Landry Jones. In a draft where I'm enamored with the top three QBs, of course the Seahawks will win enough games to be out of range for all of them.

The case against mocking Jones to Seattle: They didn't 'reach' for a QB last year, and by all accounts, Jones has not looked like a first round pick this season. The Hawks could have said, 'we need a QB - no ifs ands or buts' and taken Dalton (who they actually liked), but they decided against it. In other words, they aren't going to take a QB unless they really believe in him, despite the fact that it looks like they are only ONE quarterback away from being real contenders. And at this point, why would anyone think they'd believe in Jones?

It's possible they will like him, but I don't see Carroll making a panic move and taking Jones just because he's the top rated passer left on Mel's board in the middle of round one. I trust the scouting will have a better read on the player, and realize that he's not who they should give the keys to the franchise to. Maybe I'm wrong, and they will. Which would suck.

DE like Ingram or Mercilus might be the pick instead. Maybe CB Jonathan Banks of Mississippi State.

Goon61
12-12-2011, 01:08 PM
Believe me, I knew having Burfict in the Top 10 was going to be a controversial projection. I am sure we will talk about it extensively on the podcast on Tuesday, but here is a quick synopsis on my feelings.

Burfict is a potentially elite talent at the inside linebacker position. More talented than Rolando McClain (#8 overall in 2010) and probably the best since Patrick Willis. Is he immature? Yes. Does he need to be coached up and learn to control his emotions? Absolutely. However, as I've said all along I would rather have to pull the reins because a guy is too aggressive than the other way around. It's not like Burfict is necessarily a bad person, he just let's his emotions get out of control. Ndamukong Suh might be the dirtiest player in the league and I am pretty sure every team in the league would love to have him on their roster. The other factor is that at this point in the process I can't really speak to Burfict's character. I know what I've seen on film, but I haven't talked to him or anyone who has. If once Burfict has some interviews with teams and I start getting bad reports about his character then I will probably start factoring that into the equation more but at this point I have no reason to believe there are any issues serious enough to torpedo his grade.

As I mentioned in the analysis of the mock, I fully understand Burfict is a reach as sixth overall. However, I legitimately think he is a top ten talent who has a shot to go in the top dozen picks to fifteen picks or so. Also, what would be a better fit for the Eagles?

Unless a LB runs a 4.4 like Willis most of the time he is not worth a top pick. I just can't help but think about Aaron Curry and how everyone loved him and he busted, hard. If Burfict is the exception to this rule he is going to have a make a real strong argument for it.

If the Eagles are dead set on drafting a LB they are much better off trading down, especially if a team wanted RGII there, and getting Kuechly or Teo.
Even if they can't trade down I still think they would be better off taking a pair of LBs in rds 2 and 3. Mid rd LBs have historically played well, Trotter was drafted in the 3rd rd.

nepg
12-12-2011, 01:22 PM
I have RGIII ahead of Barkley personally, but I'd take either in the top 10 if I needed a QB. Both are better prospects coming out than Gabbert was (as is Landry Jones)

I'm curious why you think RGIII would need an abnormal amount of development, however. He has a ton of experience in college and is a very accurate passer. People are mistaken if they think he just gets by on freaky athletic ability.
Landry Jones is not better than Gabbert. He has the same issues, plus other issues, and far less physical tools and raw talent.

I agree with most of the ready of your post, though.

RG3 would need more development time because he's black. There...saved everyone the trouble.

KaneMarko
12-12-2011, 01:44 PM
I love Dontari Poe. He is a stud with a good understanding of football. Just not a frakishly big guy. Has some nuances that usually take guys years to develop like a swim move, ability to bull and read while disengaging. He could make that front line so much better opening things up inside for the ILBs to make unobstructed tackles.

The biggest thing with Dontari is that he can play three downs, he is a pretty good pass rusher for his size so he would not just be relegated to a 2 down type.

I ont see any ILB's or linemen available at the time so I go with best player that fits an immediate need, POE fits the bill

A++++++++++++++++++++++++++++


I agree. I'd prefer the Chiefs move up and get one of the top rated QBs. But I don't see this team doing that. NT is a serious issue. I know we drafted Jerrell Powe last season but he's only suited up once all season so far. They've instead opted to suit up Ammon Gordon (who has shown well at times) but who is a journeyman at best. So I have serious questions as to Jerrell Powe's long term prospect.

I really think our defense is a dominating NT away from pretty much being solid all around.

However, if we do go with Dontari Poe in the first round, Foles and an offensive tackle like Datko better be targets in the next two rounds. The first 3 rounds of my Chiefs mock right now are:

1. Poe
2. Foles
3. Datko

Caulibflower
12-12-2011, 02:17 PM
I have a hard time respecting the opinions of people who thought Tavaris Jackson was a starting quarterback in the National Football League. I am only half kidding. :o)

I won't lie and pretend this wasn't still in the back of my mind as I made my previous post. I do, however, think there's a difference in taking a flyer on a relatively low-priced vet who might (...doesn't) have have some upside and a history with your new, highly-priced FA wideout rather than reaching for a QB in the draft. We really needed a QB, but there just weren't a lot of options last year, and frankly, I'm glad we didn't reach for someone or overpay for Kolb.


The case against mocking Jones to Seattle: They didn't 'reach' for a QB last year, and by all accounts, Jones has not looked like a first round pick this season. The Hawks could have said, 'we need a QB - no ifs ands or buts' and taken Dalton (who they actually liked), but they decided against it. In other words, they aren't going to take a QB unless they really believe in him, despite the fact that it looks like they are only ONE quarterback away from being real contenders. And at this point, why would anyone think they'd believe in Jones?

It's possible they will like him, but I don't see Carroll making a panic move and taking Jones just because he's the top rated passer left on Mel's board in the middle of round one. I trust the scouting will have a better read on the player, and realize that he's not who they should give the keys to the franchise to. Maybe I'm wrong, and they will. Which would suck.

DE like Ingram or Mercilus might be the pick instead. Maybe CB Jonathan Banks of Mississippi State.

Bold=my sentiment exactly. And I'm also thinking defense if there's not a QB they really like in their first spot. Might not make sense intuitively, since we've been a better defensive team than offensive team, but Ingram's a guy who's caught my attention a little bit. Not quite sure he's a legitimate first-rounder, but is a guy who seems like he might fit Carroll's schemes pretty well and make some plays. I'm definitely a BPA guy at heart, though. We still need some speed on our offense, too, but there'll be chances to address that in rounds 2 and 3. What do Seahawks fans think of drafting Jeff Demps? Normally I'm not one to draft based on a 40 time, but our offense has been so dull and slow for awhile, I'm pretty close to just thinking, "to hell with it," rolling the dice, and taking the guy who runs a 4.2 on the second day. For everyone trying to compare LaMichael James to Darren Sproles, I think Jeff Demps fits that role better. Built thicker and runs faster than James.

bearsfan_51
12-12-2011, 02:24 PM
Landry Jones is not better than Gabbert. He has the same issues, plus other issues, and far less physical tools and raw talent.

I agree with most of the ready of your post, though.

RG3 would need more development time because he's black. There...saved everyone the trouble.
I've always been really low on Gabbert. If we were to combine both this years' class and last years' class I'd probably rank them:

1) Luck (#1 pick)
2) Newton (top 3 pick)
3) RGIII (top 10 pick)
4) Barkley (top 10 pick)
5) Jones (late 1st)
6) Gabbert (late 1st/early 2nd)
7) Dalton (late 1st/early 2nd)
8) Ponder (early 2nd)
9) Kirk Cousins (2nd/3rd)
10) Kaepernick (3rd)
11) Nick Folk (3rd)

Scott Wright
12-12-2011, 07:06 PM
I don't understand this and it always frustrates me ...

Scott, in your last mock, you gave the Bills (in the early 20s at the time) Riley Reiff. Now, at #13, you give the Bills Riley Reiff. Shouldn't moving up 10 picks change the player? This always frustrates me ... has Reiff's stock gone up as well since your last mock, if he's worth #13 how did he last till the early 20's in the last mock?

I don't hate the pick, I just get frustrated when a team is given the same player in every mock no matter where they are picking. I remember two years ago you gave the Bills Bryan Bulaga no matter where they were projected to pick, from the mid 20's all the way up to #9 (we started off 5-1 that year and collapsed, very similar to this year).

When the Bills don't win another game this year (more than likely) and we end up picking #7, are we still going to be projected to take Reiff?

Reiff had a terrific season and has indeed moved up draft boards. In fact, Reiff has leap-frogged Jonathan Martin in the eyes of many. Top 10 isn't even out of the question. It's merely a coincidence that Reiff's stock and the Bills spot in the draft order have ascended together.

Scott Wright
12-12-2011, 07:08 PM
They didn't 'reach' for a QB last year... The Hawks could have said, 'we need a QB - no ifs ands or buts' and taken Dalton (who they actually liked), but they decided against it.

And how did that work out? :o)

Iamcanadian
12-12-2011, 07:27 PM
What hurts Gabbert is even when he does have time, he plays rushed and frantic and he looked the EXACT same at Mizzou.

He may never improve in that aspect of the game, feeling confident in the pocket, but I just can't see a GM dumping a top 10 pick after his rookie year.

I agree, the team will stick with Gabbert for at least 2 more seasons before giving him the hook if he doesn't improve significantly.
Rookies develop at different rates, it took Eli 4 seasons to break out and Alex Smith even longer.
Not saying Gabbert will break through but he is going to get a long chance to come through. probably at least 3 years including this season.
The team that drafted him is really starting from scratch, so it should come as no surprise that he will develop really slowly.

Sloopy
12-12-2011, 07:55 PM
Unless a LB runs a 4.4 like Willis most of the time he is not worth a top pick. I just can't help but think about Aaron Curry and how everyone loved him and he busted, hard. If Burfict is the exception to this rule he is going to have a make a real strong argument for it.

If the Eagles are dead set on drafting a LB they are much better off trading down, especially if a team wanted RGII there, and getting Kuechly or Teo.
Even if they can't trade down I still think they would be better off taking a pair of LBs in rds 2 and 3. Mid rd LBs have historically played well, Trotter was drafted in the 3rd rd.

Curry and Burfict aren't even close to the same prospects...

Cury was supposedly one of the safest picks in the draft and was a 4-3 OLB, Burfict is extremely talented but also has an extremely high ceiling as well as a chance to bust and is more of a 3-4 ILB type.

Also: T'eo is going back to school meaning there is less of a chance of getting one later so this will indefinitely push the other two's stock up as a team trading back or failing to trade up may miss out.

Finally... while you aren't wrong about the mid round backers, your also not right... players from all rounds of the draft at all positions have a chance to turn out... naming one guy does not prove your point...

Traditionally ILB are not valued as high picks and ones can be found later in the draft for a cheaper cost, however this does not mean you should pass on a top talent if he is available.

Vikes99ej
12-13-2011, 12:33 AM
I guess I like the Vikings pick. Christ, I wish we had five first round picks just so we could use all of them on a brand new offensive line.

ellsy82
12-13-2011, 12:48 AM
Still overrating Poe, I see. Any team that drafts him before the third round won't see a starter before his third year. Kid is raw and has a LOT of work to do.

thebow305
12-13-2011, 12:50 AM
That is the PERFECT Phins pick! Nice job Scott! Love me some RGIII.

raynman
12-13-2011, 09:35 AM
i'm getting tired of seeing the panthers picking a DE when they are very happy with their DEs (with good reason) and they have so many other area of needs. it's a lazy pick, imo, and shows little understanding of the situation.

best thing to do in their spot right now is to trade down.

aside from that i would be looking at RT, CB, or WLB as the primary needs. DT needs addressed, but i doubt they use a 1st rounder, esp. there because it would be too much of a reach and they have too much youth there as it is.

RT- otah most likely won't be back and can't be relied on to start because he's fragile and he just doesn't want to play. ideal situation here would be kalil then starting him at LT and moving gross to RT. kalil will be gone way too early, though.

CB- not much needs be said here. gamble is a solid lockdown corner bordering on elite. we have solid depth in munnerlyn and butler (both of whom can handle the nickel) and we have an unknown kn brandon hogan, but we don't really have a solid starting answer across from gamble.

WLB/OLB- we lost thomas davis again. 3rd ACL tear in 2 years. pretty safe to say he can't be relied upon. anderson and beason are set, but we need that 3rd LB on the outside. panthers are planning on playing a good bit of 3-4 going forward so be thinking the prototypical Will. someone fast who can get at the passer and who can be decent in coverage.

Iamcanadian
12-13-2011, 03:20 PM
I like the choice of a WR for the Houston Texans but not the player he will not test out good because he isn't in shape and is slow. I think that Kendall Wright makes more since or maybe even Tommy Streeter who is going to blow it out during his workout with his size & speed will be unmatched.

I agree, Wright and even Streeter are going to be far better pros IMO.

Iamcanadian
12-13-2011, 03:29 PM
Because this is the Gabbert thread, doesn't anybody else remember that the consensus on him when he declared last year was "he should have gone back to school for another year"?

The consensus was he had a real shot to be a solid pro.

Why can't we just count this as a sort of "redshirt year" and just wait to see if he actually can play? It's not like this "no offseason" thing is really all that easy on the rookie signal callers.

I do agree that it is absurd to write a QB off as a rookie, Eli didn't look like much till year 4 and Alex Smith was the scourge of everybody till this season and I could go on and on about rookie QB's.
Gabbert may well struggle for a couple of more years before blossoming. Jacksonville was probably the hardest spot for a rookie QB to come into. A lame duck HC, and very little talent around him.
Jacksonville won't be looking for another QB until at least 3 seasons have passed.

The Linebacker
12-13-2011, 04:33 PM
Please people. Do any of you even follow the Jaguars? Can you call yourself an expert of the team? Gabbert is the youngest starting QB in the league. He'll be the youngest QB ever to start 13 games. When Gabbert was drafted, the Jaguars stated from the outset that he would sit for a year because he was so raw. The idea was to play behind David Garrard and Luke McCown. Low and behold Garrard gets a back issue, gets cut and doesn't play another snap. McCown starts the season but is awful against the Jets, throwing 4 ill-advised INTs. Gabbert comes in for relief and ends up finishing the season as the starter. Gabbert's surrounding case has not been great. If you have watched all of the Jaguars' game you would understand that the only guys who have been consistently good are Eugene Monroe and Maurice Jones-Drew. Mike Sims-Walker was cut at the beginning of the season bc they didn't think he was worth the spot. The best WR in training camp was Mount Union's Cecil Shorts, who disappeared during the season. Mike Thomas and Jason Hill are your starters, but then Hill stinks so much that they cut him during the season, and he's the #1? Jarrett Dillard formerly of Rice is the most consistent performer now that he can get on the field, but the rest of the WRs are laughable. Chastin West? Kassim Osgood? Dillard? Yea, that's right, on Sunday, the Jaguars had 3 active WRs after Thomas and Shorts left the game with injuries. Marcedes Lewis spent the offseason learning MMA, where it obviously made him forget how to catch because he has dropped balls left and right and is only finally getting his act together. The offensive line is starting a rookie who started the season extremely overmatched and he was dominated. He is only just now getting his feet under him. Jags also lost their starting tackle and he was replaced by Guy Whimper....Guy Whimper, more like revolving door. Recently, Jack Del Rio was fired, as was the Jaguars WR coach. Dirk Koetter took over the QB's coach and the QB coach went to the WRs. Gabbert has shown steady progression since the coaching change. I know that you didn't watch the Tampa v. Jags game, since it was only on in something like 5% of the households, so I ask that you watch the game and reassess your opinion.

Now, Gabbert's selection dumbfounded many Jaguars fans, myself included, as I didn't even do research on him because I did not even expect him to be available. Initial film study immediately showed that he broke the pocket more often than he should, but it also showed an immensely strong arm, good accuracy when the footwork was right, raw athletic talent and a eye for the field. Give the youngest QB in a the league a break. He wasn't even supposed to play this year.

/rant end

On that note. The Jags would benefit from taking Blackmon, although I hope that they trade down. The WRs lack a burner and a big guy. Blackmon doesn't seem to be either. Other considerations could be DE (Kampman is most likely gone) or CB. Interior OL could also be considered, but no G/C is worth a 4th overall.

raynman
12-13-2011, 04:38 PM
oh stop it. i've never seen a rookie qb look less capable of playing in the nfl. except for maybe clausen and quinn. but they turned out well.last year i was saying that gabbert in college looked about as capable and confident as clausen as a rookie.

meanwhile, experts around here and elsewhere (hello mayock) kept on saying that he was the best QB in the draft and that newton was well below him and others.

it only makes sense that some of these guys would be making excuses for being so wrong about both guys.

Sloopy
12-13-2011, 04:47 PM
http://twitter.com/#!/ClaytonESPN/status/146718926770946048

Take it for what it's worth...

Having to put 27 players on IR this year, the Jags have only 5 man practice squad

CashmoneyDrew
12-13-2011, 06:01 PM
I've always been really low on Gabbert. If we were to combine both this years' class and last years' class I'd probably rank them:

1) Luck (#1 pick)
2) Newton (top 3 pick)
3) RGIII (top 10 pick)
4) Barkley (top 10 pick)
5) Jones (late 1st)
6) Gabbert (late 1st/early 2nd)
7) Dalton (late 1st/early 2nd)
8) Ponder (early 2nd)
9) Kirk Cousins (2nd/3rd)
10) Kaepernick (3rd)
11) Nick Folk (3rd)

You think a kicker is a better QB prospect than Jake Locker?

Iamcanadian
12-13-2011, 06:46 PM
oh stop it. i've never seen a rookie qb look less capable of playing in the nfl. except for maybe clausen and quinn. but they turned out well.

Well, you were wrong on Newton so what makes you so sure, Gabbert cannot develop. Eli absolutely stunk for 3 years before he broke out in his 4th season.
Judging rookies is a waste of time by draftniks who look for perfection right out of the gate. The fact that Jacksonville stuck with him through thick and thin suggests they feel he may have a future. Clausen and Quinn never held their starting positions long enough to suggest they could be capable players. Their coaching staffs decided early that these 2 had nothing to offer and we basically never saw them again.
Unless the team rejects its rookie QB, I never like to give up on him either. I firmly believe that the team knows a lot more than we do, so I am prepared to give Gabbert more time.
Am I guaranteeing he will be a star or even a capable starting NFL QB, NO, I am just prepared to give him more time before I write him off.

bearsfan_51
12-13-2011, 07:22 PM
You think a kicker is a better QB prospect than Jake Locker?
Err....Nick Foles. And to answer your question, yes. As much as I wasn't (am not) a fan of Gabbert. I wouldn't have touched Locker until at least the 3rd round. He's done a pretty nice job in limited action so far (still needs to get his completion % up)

The Linebacker
12-13-2011, 08:11 PM
NJX9, then you haven't been watching. He has shown improvement. He was actually pretty good against Tampa. He's had spurts throughout the season where he has not shied from pressure or contact. Its an experience thing. He has all of the tangibles that a quarter back could hope for. Size, speed, athelticism, arm strength, downfield visions. He lacks footwork. That's his main flaw and it can be coached. His other main flaw is lack of experience. He was a true junior coming out, with two years of starting experience. Again, he is the youngest QB in the league.

You hate to play the stat game, but you still twist the numbers to your own whims. Manning stunk his first year. Through 7 games (and then some), he put up worse stats than Gabbert. Not to mention that Manning had a better supporting receiving cast. He also had a pedestrian completion percentage during his second year. But I digress, you point to judging a QB in his second year and how he is better than Gabbert, but yet you don't even want to give Gabbert a second year. Need I mention again that there was no intention of playing Gabbert this year, but the QB situation in Jax went to crap and there was no other choice but to play Gabbert. Need I also mention that he had no offseason with the coaches to work on his NFL craft, just a playbook to read and try to decipher on his own?

Cam Newton isn't the only strawman, I mean, you could point to any player out there, say, hey look he is either (a) good or (b) bad and you would probably be wrong as to how the player eventually turns out. Look at Maybin with the Jets, sucked with Bills, is doing pretty well with the Jets.

The fact that Jacksonville stuck with him may have been because there was no choice, that's true, but if their plan was to stick with a veteran with Gabbert on the bench, wouldn't that, in essence, imply that Gabbert was a better option than McCown?

I'm not gonna compare any QB's to any other QB's, as they aren't the same people.

Its obvious, by your sarcastic remarks about "McDonalds" and "using your eyes" that you haven't watched most of his games. He's had games where he shies from contact, true, but he's had games where he's stood tall in the pocket. He's also had games where he had time, but his footwork wasn't there. Anyway you slice it, its someone who doesn't look ready for the job, not that he doesn't have the ability to play the position.

Again, you make a snide comment about knowing more than the coaches and about Sunday, but you didn't watch the Tampa game obviously.

Your final comment has pretty much been debunked already. You haven't watched them play, haven't seen the fact that he has been harassed by defensive lines constantly. Again, see this past Sunday.

Since you obviously didn't read what I wrote originally and have obviously only seen the two Monday night games, then I don't know how you can form an opinion.

Oh, did I mention that Gabbert has faced the #1 DEFENSE (twice), 2, 3, 6, 7, 8, 9 (8 of his 11.3 games)? Tell me any rookie QB that has no offseason, wasn't supposed to start, who has a crappy receiving corp, an underachieving TE and a hurt OL, who would do well?

The Linebacker
12-13-2011, 09:02 PM
Did you just compare a DT vs. a QB? Really? Wow. Also, the #1 what? Come on. Use your common sense, its defense, but I'll edit it anyway. I'm not gonna discuss this anymore because your agenda is clear and your slant is obvious. Troll on.

Iamcanadian
12-13-2011, 09:57 PM
faced the #1 what? and keep on with the excuses. i'm sure you made them for alex smith, david carr and jamarcus russell, too.

Yes, I would have made them in their rookie seasons because Rookie QB's don't always bloom in their 1st season. H...mmm Alex Smith took something like 8 seasons before breaking out. You knew better than anyone that Alex stunk, I'm sure, and probably thought Jim Harbaugh didn't have a clue when he named Smith his starter.

At a certain point, probably after 3 years, I would have given up on Carr, Russell, I cannot remember because work effort was his main weakness and we aren't privy to a lot of that.

Anybody who is going to judge a player's career on his rookie year just strikes me as absurd, they are all going through a huge adjustment, some make it through quickly, others quit and are out of the game, others just settle for mediocrity. However, I've seen way too many solid players really struggle in their rookie season but come back the next year and really bloom as the game slows down for them and they put in the hard work to improve, but I guess those types aren't in your vocabulary. You simply believe you can write a player off before he ever gets to the pros if there is something you don't like about him.

I suppose you'll come back with a lot of insults, hoping people won't notice your argument is flawed rather than have a critical discussion with give and take. Pour it out if you must, it's worth a good laugh.

Babylon
12-14-2011, 01:43 PM
last year i was saying that gabbert in college looked about as capable and confident as clausen as a rookie.

meanwhile, experts around here and elsewhere (hello mayock) kept on saying that he was the best QB in the draft and that newton was well below him and others.

it only makes sense that some of these guys would be making excuses for being so wrong about both guys.

I'd say there weren't any so called experts around here who had Gabbert as their top QB unless you consider the natural an expert. (i dont)

As for the whole Gabbert evaluation i'd say give him some time. I'm really not high on any rookie starting and if they must then buyer beware because you arent going to win a lot of games.

jayceheathman
12-15-2011, 06:45 AM
I would love it if the Texans picked Alshon Jeffery.

Iamcanadian
12-15-2011, 03:09 PM
I would love it if the Texans picked Alshon Jeffery.

I'd love it too because it would mean a better prospect is left for my Browns in round 2.

raynman
12-16-2011, 12:17 PM
I'd say there weren't any so called experts around here who had Gabbert as their top QB unless you consider the natural an expert. (i dont)

As for the whole Gabbert evaluation i'd say give him some time. I'm really not high on any rookie starting and if they must then buyer beware because you arent going to win a lot of games. for starters...
2011 - Quarterback



Blaine Gabbert, Missouri
Jake Locker, Washington
Cam Newton, Auburn
Ryan Mallett, Arkansas
Christian Ponder, Florida St.
Ricky Stanzi, Iowa
Colin Kaepernick, Nevada
Andy Dalton, T.C.U.http://www.draftcountdown.com/archive/2011/2011-Rankings.php#qb

BuddyCHRIST
12-16-2011, 02:52 PM
I'm an FSU fan but Zebrie Sanders is being highly overrated by draft analysts, he has the build and athleticism but he is by no means a dominant player. He makes tons of mental mistakes and was a very poor run blocker this year.

49erNation85
12-16-2011, 04:01 PM
Good sf pick . But I could see us going defense as well to load up on S help or CB if a better one is in our spots.

DraftSavant
12-16-2011, 04:16 PM
NJX9, then you haven't been watching. He has shown improvement. He was actually pretty good against Tampa. He's had spurts throughout the season where he has not shied from pressure or contact. Its an experience thing. He has all of the tangibles that a quarter back could hope for. Size, speed, athelticism, arm strength, downfield visions. He lacks footwork. That's his main flaw and it can be coached. His other main flaw is lack of experience. He was a true junior coming out, with two years of starting experience. Again, he is the youngest QB in the league.

You hate to play the stat game, but you still twist the numbers to your own whims. Manning stunk his first year. Through 7 games (and then some), he put up worse stats than Gabbert. Not to mention that Manning had a better supporting receiving cast. He also had a pedestrian completion percentage during his second year. But I digress, you point to judging a QB in his second year and how he is better than Gabbert, but yet you don't even want to give Gabbert a second year. Need I mention again that there was no intention of playing Gabbert this year, but the QB situation in Jax went to crap and there was no other choice but to play Gabbert. Need I also mention that he had no offseason with the coaches to work on his NFL craft, just a playbook to read and try to decipher on his own?

Cam Newton isn't the only strawman, I mean, you could point to any player out there, say, hey look he is either (a) good or (b) bad and you would probably be wrong as to how the player eventually turns out. Look at Maybin with the Jets, sucked with Bills, is doing pretty well with the Jets.

The fact that Jacksonville stuck with him may have been because there was no choice, that's true, but if their plan was to stick with a veteran with Gabbert on the bench, wouldn't that, in essence, imply that Gabbert was a better option than McCown?

I'm not gonna compare any QB's to any other QB's, as they aren't the same people.

Its obvious, by your sarcastic remarks about "McDonalds" and "using your eyes" that you haven't watched most of his games. He's had games where he shies from contact, true, but he's had games where he's stood tall in the pocket. He's also had games where he had time, but his footwork wasn't there. Anyway you slice it, its someone who doesn't look ready for the job, not that he doesn't have the ability to play the position.

Again, you make a snide comment about knowing more than the coaches and about Sunday, but you didn't watch the Tampa game obviously.

Your final comment has pretty much been debunked already. You haven't watched them play, haven't seen the fact that he has been harassed by defensive lines constantly. Again, see this past Sunday.

Since you obviously didn't read what I wrote originally and have obviously only seen the two Monday night games, then I don't know how you can form an opinion.

Oh, did I mention that Gabbert has faced the #1 DEFENSE (twice), 2, 3, 6, 7, 8, 9 (8 of his 11.3 games)? Tell me any rookie QB that has no offseason, wasn't supposed to start, who has a crappy receiving corp, an underachieving TE and a hurt OL, who would do well?

Repeat after this over and over: Blaine Gabbert could be a future Superbowl winning quarterback if NFL football was a summer league 7 on 7 tournament. It's not. So he will likely never, ever be good.

Isolate. The. Quarterback.

DraftSavant
12-16-2011, 05:20 PM
This play resulted in a sack:

http://img855.imageshack.us/img855/2146/dillardopen.jpg

Please tell me who is at fault here.

TheSlinger
12-16-2011, 05:28 PM
Good pic, you can see that he's not even done his drop yet and there are two defenders in his face.

DraftSavant
12-16-2011, 05:36 PM
Good pic, you can see that he's not even done his drop yet and there are two defenders in his face.

He has already completed his drop and made his plant step. The wide receiver's route is synched with the drop and made his break and came open when Gabbert completed the drop.

That ball is already a second late coming out. He's too busy pissing himself, staring at the rush, and beginning to scramble to have made the throw downfield. He scrambles right into pressure and takes the sack.

TheSlinger
12-16-2011, 05:40 PM
http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/2011121500/2011/REG15/jaguars@falcons#menu=highlights&tab=recap

You can take part in whatever narrative you want but it doesn't match up with reality.

DraftSavant
12-16-2011, 05:53 PM
http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/2011121500/2011/REG15/jaguars@falcons#menu=highlights&tab=recap

You can take part in whatever narrative you want but it doesn't match up with reality.

That isn't the same play, so...

The screenshot I posted was of the first play of scrimmage for Jax.

ellsy82
12-16-2011, 09:50 PM
not a fan of zeitler in round one at all....give me mike adams there

I can NOT believe you just said that. Eh. I'll take that Zeitler pick, please and thank you, Scott!!

ShockTreatment
12-17-2011, 12:09 AM
Melvin Ingram and Brandon Jenkins ahead of Nick Perry and Courtney Upshaw?

Also, Burfict is too high given attitude flag.

Don't think so :P

Abaddon
12-17-2011, 12:12 AM
The Jags have their quarterback of the future in place with Blaine Gabbert

*blank stare*

GaMeTiMe
12-17-2011, 08:04 AM
The Eagles are going to be a real tough team to mock this year, especially with that first round pick being so high. In the end though, if we can finish 8-8 or 7-9 we should find ourselves somewhere in that 13-17 range and it probably won't be as tough as it seems now. Burfict is obviously a reach there, a slightly better pick for us would be Zach Brown. If we're going to take a LB in the 1st it's going to be him, and hopefully we're not picking top-12 so it's a bit more justifiable.

Another position you have to start looking at for Philly is WR. The DeSean debacle isn't going to have a happy ending and while Maclin is a perfectly capable #1, he's been prone to injury and we'll be looking at Jason Avant/Riley Cooper behind him going into next year. WR is undoubtedly a top need here, Vick is a pretty average QB without a legitimate threat taking the top off of the defense.

Leon Sandcastle
12-18-2011, 06:40 PM
The Browns, Redskins, Bills are fighting for the rights to Matt Barkley and Robert Griffin III.