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BeerBaron
12-12-2011, 09:40 AM
Another week, another collection of random NFL related thoughts.

And again this week, here is some musical entertainment for your enjoyment while reading:


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1.) The Giants are Scary when Pressed.
To quote William Howard Taft, (how many of you can say you've ever done that?) "When backed into a corner, even a rat will fight." Well that is exactly what the Giants did last night.

Just about everyone associated with this team except for Eli and JPP was seemingly doing everything they could to lose. For all the talent on this team (and yes, they do have some nice talent in more areas than not,) they have the most irritating set of coordinators I've seen.

Driving late in the game, 3rd and 9 I believe was the down and distance, Kevin Gilbride calls a screen into heavy traffic that gets picked off by Sean Lee. And the draw plays...the never ending draw plays! Running a draw with your 250lb pansiest "bruiser" I've ever seen in Jacobs is doomed to fail. Yet the Giants kept doing it again and again and again.....gah!

And the defense. Perry Fewell still hasn't learned that rushing 3 guys and playing a massive zone DOESN'T WORK. The Cowboys gashed the Giants defense at will all game long, and had Romo connected with Austin on that late 3rd down, the Giants would be done. (More on that and the Cowboys later....)

The Giants are just such a weird team. I both hate and love watching them at the same time. In the areas where they are strong, they are really strong: QB, WR, DL, even the secondary to a degree. But in the areas they are weak, they are laughably weak: LB, OL, RB (yes, RB...Brandon Jacobs really pisses me off.)

The Giants team just does not play to their own strengths. If I were coaching that defense, I'd put Webster, Ross and Amukamara in press man, trust my safeties to keep everything in front of them, and send 4 or 5 pass rushers every play. There is no god damned reason to do anything else.

I want to like you Giants...I want to feel like you could make a crazy playoff run and upset teams like the Packers and Saints. But your coordinators suck, their schemes suck, and unless you win out, you're probably sitting at home for the playoffs waiting to hear who your new coaches will be next year.

2.) The Cowboys...
I'm not sure what to say here. The Cowboys did everything they needed to win...or at least I thought so. The Giants hamstring themselves with their stupid schemes as stated above but the Cowboys still found a way to lose.

Since I'm all about historical quotes today, like Lincoln said about Burnside in the Civil War: "Only the Cowboys could snatch defeat from the jaws of victory."

If Romo completes that pass to Austin, we're not talking about this today. If Bailey's 2nd FG attempt isn't blocked, we're not talking about this today. If the Cowboys do something other than play that stupid prevent "safeties 35 yards deep with 5 minutes to go in the game" BS, we're probably not talking about this today.

Yet here we are. Discussing a late game Cowboys collapse that led to their defeat. I don't even know how to describe what is wrong with this team. The organization has just had this stink of losing about them for the past decade or so.

They have talent. DeMarcus Ware is likely headed to the HoF one day. Sean Lee looks like he'll be a perennial pro bowler starting this year. They have some really good WRs and even Romo is having a great year, and had a great night last night. (Other than that safety and the overthrow on 3rd down.)

Yet, they find ways to lose. I guess it's just the new Cowboy Way.

3.) Treatise on the Prevent Defense
"The prevent defense only prevents your team from winning the game." You all know this well, as this is one of my most hated things in all of football.

Perfect example late last night...the Cowboys, up two scores with around 5:00 to play in the game...being a little aggressive and getting even one stop probably seals the victory....yet there the Cowboys are, playing soft zones with their safeties thirty-*******-five yards deep. What the hell is that?

And what do the Giants do? First play sees "5.00 flat 40" Jake Ballard catch and run for like 30 yards. What in the hell are you doing Cowboys?

Another great example: the Bengals/Texans finish. 3rd string 5th round pick "better than Blaine Gabbert" rookie QB TJ Yates, in the redzone with one shot at the end zone....and the Bengals rush 3. THEY RUSH ******* THREE!! THREE!! AGAINST A ROOKIE QB!!

That left 8 players in coverage....and yet Kevin Walter gets wide freaking open for the TD. The Bengals have 8 defenders to cover 5 potential receivers, and leave a guy wide open. Yates is not your typical rookie, he was Dalton-esque for everyone who didn't see the game. He played great.

I mean, hell, in that situation, I think I could have made that play. That phrase is often overused, but no Bengal got any pressure on Yates and he threw to a wide freaking open receiver. That's simple playground stuff right there.

Moral of the story: Rushing 3 and playing zone leads to failure. Unless you're playing the Cowboys.

4.) The Texans are Still Dangerous
TJ Yates is not your typical 5th round rookie 3rd string QB. He looked as sharp as sharp could be yesterday. For those that didn't see, a great recap of his final drive is available here:

http://www.nfl.com/videos/auto/09000d5d824f21f6/Yates-orchestrates-game-winning-drive

He throws only one incomplete pass, dodges pressure, and hits a wide open man for a TD on the final play. Simply amazing.

This may sound like ridiculous praise, but hear me out. If you blurred out the jerseys, you could easily mistake the QB leading the charge for Tom Brady or Aaron Rodgers. He was impeccable on that drive. I almost couldn't believe it watching it live. He's obviously no where near those guys overall, but on that one drive, he was. There's something about him that just makes him dangerous...accurate, good pocket presence, slides well, knew when to take off and run, has a solid arm and gets good zip on the passes....nice. Very nice.

Pair his apparent spunk with a good RB combo, good group of pass catchers (upgrades to great when Andre returns,) what may be the best o-line in the game right now, and a top 5 defense, and this team is going to stand toe to toe with anyone.

Would I favor them against the Patriots, Ravens or Steelers in the playoffs? No. But would I count them out? Absolutely not.

5.) Obligatory Bears Mention
Well, we're cooked. Pretty much what I expected to happen happened. Defense played well all day, offense lost us the game. I feel like a little pressure has been lifted being all but out of the playoff race...so I'm numb to it. Alas. What could have been this season.

Word is that Jerry Angelo may retire after the season and that Mike Martz might not come back. All rumors for now, but I''m conflicted about it.

We were 7-3, had out **** together, and would have another offseason to potentially add o-line and maybe WR talent. If those guys leave, we essentially are blowing up the team.

I'd like to give it one more shot with some talent being added plus getting Cutler and Forte back healthy. (Franchised Forte of course...)

If we fail out then, blow everything up. But this team was as dangerous as any during that 5 game win streak.

It also goes to show just how valuable Cutler is. People love talking **** on the guy and you're lucky to see him mentioned anywhere near a "top 10 QBs" list. But for the Bears offense, as bad as the o-line and receivers are, he was perfect. As has been said a few times by me and other Bears fans, just about any QB other than Rodgers or Roethlisberger would have been killed behind that o-line long ago. It's sad that Cutler's injury didn't even happen during a sack but on an INT return after a receiver fell down.

So goes the 2011 Bears season....here's hoping for better luck next year as we pull the plug on this one.

6.) The Patriots Defense is Awful
Just awful. Practice squad safeties, corners who can't cover, very little pass rush to speak of...Any win they get has to come in a shootout. Even against a Rexy led Washington squad, it comes down to the last series of the game.

As good as Brady and Gronk and Welker and the offense overall are, they simply cannot carry this team forever. Most of the other AFC top competitors have explosive offenses. The Steelers do with a healthy Roethlisberger and all those young receivers. The Ravens do as long as Cam Cameron isn't being ********. The Texans do even with a rookie QB (as described above.) And the Jets...you never know with the Jets (more on that later...)

Shootout games are basically a coin flip. If both offenses can just march down the field at will, it often simply comes down to the team having the ball last winning. Can Tom Brady lead the Pats to 2 or 3 straight shootout wins through the playoffs? I don't know.

One thing is known: that Patriots defense needs major help this offseason. Spend those draft picks and hell, maybe even bring in a free agent or two. I think the Tom Brady window will close in the next 2-3 years. Help him now.

7.) What to make of the Jets?
I don't know what to make of them...do you know what to make of them?

I've said before that I'd never count on this team to win a game. Any game. They could play against the Colts 3rd stringers and I'd still have doubts. But they could also play against an all-star team and I wouldn't count them completely out.

They've made the AFC Championship game two years in a row and are rolling right now. They're not a team to underestimate (ask the Colts and Patriots last year.)

I don't care who beat them and by how much in the regular season. This team has definite Jeckyl and Hyde tendencies.

Would it surprise me to see them in the AFC Championship game this year? Absolutely not. Watch out for them if they get on another late season/playoff tear like they're capable of.

8.) The Packers are going to go undefeated in the regular season.
I think it's pretty obvious that this team is going to go all out to win every game. They're not going to pull a Polian/Dungy wuss out move and rest thier starters late. They just won the Superbowl last year and short of losing Rodgers, will be the favorites to win another this year even if a couple other players get hurt.

This team has no fear of injuriezz after last year. I think they're going to go all out and god knows the remaining teams on their schedule aren't stopping them. The Chiefs? Ha! If you gave them 10 free possessions they'd still be lucky to score half of what the Packers will put up on them. The Hanie/Barber led Bears? No. I expect the defense to keep things tight for a little bit but the incompetence of the offense will doom the Bears. And finally, the Lions in week 17....I give them a small chance, but their secondary is absolutely awful and I like the Packers offense better in a shootout situation.

So yeah, I see a 16-0 regular season. Could the Saints or 49ers or (gasp) even the Giants in a rematch give the Packers a good game at Lambeau in the playoffs? Maybe. But again, I'd favor the Packers easily in any matchup.

It pains me to admit this, but they might just run the table. At least it'd shut up ******* Mercury Morris....(gotta look for the positives, right?)

9.) Replay Equipment Malfuntions
In at least two games yesterday (GB/OAK, SF/ARI) the replay equipment malfunctioned, leading to no reviews.

What. The. ****. ???

What if that happened on a questionable play that may decide the Superbowl? What then? "Sorry, the replay equipment has malfuctioned."

Imagine that situation for a moment. Let's say the still undefeated Packers are behind the Patriots in the Superbowl 34-28. There are 10 seconds left and Rodgers fires to the end zone and hits Jordyzz for the TD! But wait...he is ruled out by the ref in the end zone who had a bad angle. Replay shows that both his feet were in bounds while he maintained possession the whole way. It's under 2:00, so replay is automatic. The ref comes back after the TV broadcast and jumbotron show that he was in bounds from every angle imaginable.

"The replay equipment has malfunctioned. By rule, there is no review."

Patriots win, the Packers perfect season is over.

Bull ****. Have a backup system in place. That's stupid. Stupid stupid stupid. I'm sure replay equipment isn't cheap, but you're the ******* NFL! You're worth billions (with a "b") of dollars! Have some backup equipment in place!

The NFL, like pretty much any big entity worth a lot of money, is entirely reactionary. Rather than thinking ahead and trying to tackle problems before they ever come up, they wait until something goes wrong and then go way out of their way to correct it after much public and media outcry.

Have a god damned backup replay system to ensure the product you are putting out there is at it's best.

10.) Some random smaller thoughts not worth a full discussion:

A.) Colt McCoy should not have been allowed back in the game. If the NFL wants to be taken seriously in its attempts to prevent concussions, they need to put an independent specialist on each sideline who has the authority to remove any player after a suspected concussion.

B.) Carson Palmer still sucks, yadda yadda yadda...Blaine Gabbert still sucks, blah blah blah, Tim Tebow will lose one of these close games eventually, playing with fire, same old same old.

C.) Raheem Morris' seat is up to "Broil" right about now. That team is terrible. How they won 10 games last year is beyond me.

D.) Please don't mention "Eagles" and "Playoffs" together for the rest of this year. I don't care that they're mathematically still alive, they're not going to the ******* playoffs. Any other team with their record wouldn't even get a passing mention, yet there the Eagles are...listed with the "contenders." Give me a ******* break.

That's all I've got for now. Enjoy and discuss.

Bulldogs
12-12-2011, 09:42 AM
I've been waiting for this. I wish we had live video feed of you when the Broncos won.

BeerBaron
12-12-2011, 09:44 AM
I've been waiting for this. I wish we had live video feed of you when the Broncos won.

Oh, I was dead inside before that. If we had a healthy Cutler and Forte and lost, I'd have lost my ****, absolutely.

But expectations get tempered when you have Caleb Hanie and Marion Barber running the show.

I realize I'll just have to deal with Tebow for now. If they run the playoffs and upset the Packers in the Superbowl, I'll just quit football.

I'd probably be a more productive person anyway.

AntoinCD
12-12-2011, 09:48 AM
6.) The Patriots Defense is Awful
Just awful. Practice squad safeties, corners who can't cover, very little pass rush to speak of...Any win they get has to come in a shootout. Even against a Rexy led Washington squad, it comes down to the last series of the game.

As good as Brady and Gronk and Welker and the offense overall are, they simply cannot carry this team forever. Most of the other AFC top competitors have explosive offenses. The Steelers do with a healthy Roethlisberger and all those young receivers. The Ravens do as long as Cam Cameron isn't being ********. The Texans do even with a rookie QB (as described above.) And the Jets...you never know with the Jets (more on that later...)

Shootout games are basically a coin flip. If both offenses can just march down the field at will, it often simply comes down to the team having the ball last winning. Can Tom Brady lead the Pats to 2 or 3 straight shootout wins through the playoffs? I don't know.

One thing is known: that Patriots defense needs major help this offseason. Spend those draft picks and hell, maybe even bring in a free agent or two. I think the Tom Brady window will close in the next 2-3 years. Help him now.



I think one thing which hasn't been mentioned a lot is that when the Patriots win the toss they defer the kickoff and for some reason teams elect to receive first when they win. On the majority of occassions this leads to the Patriots having the ball at the end of the first half and at the start of the second. On most occassions they are banking on a 14 point swing at that stage.

At the start of the season a lot of people(myself included) made excuses for this defense saying they were playing against some of the best QBs and offenses in the NFL. However they have now been lit up in conseuctive weeks by Dan Orlovsky and Rex Grossman. I actually dread to think of what would happen if they somehow made the Superbowl against the Packers or Saints

BeerBaron
12-12-2011, 09:53 AM
I think one thing which hasn't been mentioned a lot is that when the Patriots win the toss they defer the kickoff and for some reason teams elect to receive first when they win. On the majority of occassions this leads to the Patriots having the ball at the end of the first half and at the start of the second. On most occassions they are banking on a 14 point swing at that stage.

At the start of the season a lot of people(myself included) made excuses for this defense saying they were playing against some of the best QBs and offenses in the NFL. However they have now been lit up in conseuctive weeks by Dan Orlovsky and Rex Grossman. I actually dread to think of what would happen if they somehow made the Superbowl against the Packers or Saints

A lot of teams defer, as they should. Even going beyond the potential point swing it brings, it also gives you the chance to set your halftime adjustments in motion.

Particularly on offense, it can be difficult for the head coach, offensive coordinator, QB and other players to all get on the same page. But they get the chance to make adjustments at halftime and can come out to set the tone right away.

Anyone who doesn't defer is an idiot.

ImBrotherCain
12-12-2011, 09:54 AM
What is the word on Forte? How long is he predicted to be out?

BeerBaron
12-12-2011, 09:57 AM
What is the word on Forte? How long is he predicted to be out?

Haven't heard anything definitive since the "2-6 week" diagnosis last week.

Given his contract situation and the fact that the Bears are getting further out of it with each passing week, I don't expect him back at all this year.

Cutler on the other hand has been doing some throwing, which is a good sign. I'd love to get him back for that Christmas game against you guys. A rusty Cutler is still worlds better than Hanie.

Still, it's far from certain.

Jughead10
12-12-2011, 10:00 AM
If Manningham catches that TD and we score earlier on our last drive, there is no doubt in my mind we end up losing that game. Our defense is pathetic.

NY+Giants=NYG
12-12-2011, 10:02 AM
If Manningham catches that TD and we score earlier on our last drive, there is no doubt in my mind we end up losing that game. Our defense is pathetic.

I thought about that as I was laying in bed. Everything happens for a reason, but that was a sick throw by Eli! Just perfectly placed!

BeerBaron
12-12-2011, 10:04 AM
If Manningham catches that TD and we score earlier on our last drive, there is no doubt in my mind we end up losing that game. Our defense is pathetic.

I hate watching your defense. It should be so much better than it is. Add one of the stud linebackers available in the first and get Boley back healthy, and it should be a top unit in the NFL next year.

That's IF they get a new coordinator who will use the talent appropriately. When I look at the Giants defense, I do not see a "3 man rush Cover 2" unit. Not at all. In fact, that may be the worst possible defense for your talent.

bigbluedefense
12-12-2011, 10:04 AM
This has been haunting us Giants fans during Coughlin's entire time as HC outside the 2 years we had Steve Spagnuolo.

Every single year, we ask for the exact requests you said on defense, and every single year it doesn't happen. It's extremely frustrating as a fan to know what your defense is capable of doing and watch it do the complete opposite by design.

It makes us wonder as a fan base how many years we wasted and how different our seasons could have been if we just had good coordinators. Extremely frustrating.

You're spot on about Cutler. He's a stud and I've been a fan of his for awhile. He doesn't get enough credit.

Stop hating on Tebow! Haha, come on man, you can't deny it anymore. This dude is just ridiculous. I love watching him play, it's pure insanity.

And I <3 Eli Manning. Complete stud.

jrdrylie
12-12-2011, 10:04 AM
I can't believe you didn't mention the Bears defense in the section about prevent defenses. The very conservative defense allowed the Broncos to even get back into that game.

But I'm not ready to give up on the Bears yet. I thought they would finish 3-3 and that would be enough to get into the playoffs. They still have Minnesota and Seattle left. They can win those, get to 9-7 and hopefully get the last wild card spot. Forte should be back for the Minnesota game. Cutler may be too. If we get both of them back for the playoffs, I think we have a chance.

About the Packers, I think they do go 16-0. There is no way Kansas City beats them. If Cutler and Forte miraculously come back, Chicago has a chance but only about a 1% chance. Detroit could give them a scare. But I think the Packers are going to really by trying to get to 16-0. In the playoffs, I think there are five teams to give them a game.

1. Pittsburgh- The Steelers can run. Roethlisberger is fantastic in the playoffs. The defense is solid and should be able to get pressure on Rodgers. They are the one team that could hold that game to a 20-17 game.
2. New Orleans- They almost beat them earlier in the year. Their defense can't stop Green Bay. But Green Bay's defense can't stop New Orleans.
3. New England- Pretty much the same thing I said about New Orleans. Plus, I never like to bet against Brady in the playoffs.
4. New York Giants- Like the Saints, they almost beat them earlier in the season. It would be another high scoring game.
5. Dallas- Dallas can run. Dallas can pressure the QB. And for as much crap as Romo has gotten, the recent loses have not been his fault. He put them in position to win the game. The special teams failed him.

BeerBaron
12-12-2011, 10:10 AM
This has been haunting us Giants fans during Coughlin's entire time as HC outside the 2 years we had Steve Spagnuolo.

Every single year, we ask for the exact requests you said on defense, and every single year it doesn't happen. It's extremely frustrating as a fan to know what your defense is capable of doing and watch it do the complete opposite by design.

It makes us wonder as a fan base how many years we wasted and how different our seasons could have been if we just had good coordinators. Extremely frustrating.

You're spot on about Cutler. He's a stud and I've been a fan of his for awhile. He doesn't get enough credit.

Stop hating on Tebow! Haha, come on man, you can't deny it anymore. This dude is just ridiculous. I love watching him play, it's pure insanity.

And I <3 Eli Manning. Complete stud.

A coaching change may be the best possible thing for the Giants. Get Spags back for instance and that defense will become a malevolent terror beast that gives opposing QBs nightmares.

As it stands now, it's a cupcake. A delicious, delicious cupcake for opposing teams.

And Tebow is insanity. I'm too much of a fan of logic and reason to enjoy it, but I realize I'm stuck dealing with it. They'll lose eventually...not sure exactly how or when, but I'm confident it will happen.

I can't believe you didn't mention the Bears defense in the section about prevent defenses. The very conservative defense allowed the Broncos to even get back into that game.

But I'm not ready to give up on the Bears yet. I thought they would finish 3-3 and that would be enough to get into the playoffs. They still have Minnesota and Seattle left. They can win those, get to 9-7 and hopefully get the last wild card spot. Forte should be back for the Minnesota game. Cutler may be too. If we get both of them back for the playoffs, I think we have a chance.

About the Packers, I think they do go 16-0. There is no way Kansas City beats them. If Cutler and Forte miraculously come back, Chicago has a chance but only about a 1% chance. Detroit could give them a scare. But I think the Packers are going to really by trying to get to 16-0. In the playoffs, I think there are five teams to give them a game.

1. Pittsburgh- The Steelers can run. Roethlisberger is fantastic in the playoffs. The defense is solid and should be able to get pressure on Rodgers. They are the one team that could hold that game to a 20-17 game.
2. New Orleans- They almost beat them earlier in the year. Their defense can't stop Green Bay. But Green Bay's defense can't stop New Orleans.
3. New England- Pretty much the same thing I said about New Orleans. Plus, I never like to bet against Brady in the playoffs.
4. New York Giants- Like the Saints, they almost beat them earlier in the season. It would be another high scoring game.
5. Dallas- Dallas can run. Dallas can pressure the QB. And for as much crap as Romo has gotten, the recent loses have not been his fault. He put them in position to win the game. The special teams failed him.

You're far more optimistic than I am when it comes to the Bears I guess.

As for the Packers...I don't see anyone in the NFC beating them at home. The Saints are an entirely different team on the road. The Giants could give them a scare, but I find it unlikely. The Cowboys...I actually agree but think we'll get made fun of for even bringing it up. They still would be far from favorites though.

For an AFC opponent in the Superbowl...the Steelers or Pats in a shootout would have the best chances.

Still, if I had to bet, I'd bet on the Packers running the table.

TimmG6376
12-12-2011, 10:12 AM
I think one thing which hasn't been mentioned a lot is that when the Patriots win the toss they defer the kickoff and for some reason teams elect to receive first when they win. On the majority of occassions this leads to the Patriots having the ball at the end of the first half and at the start of the second. On most occassions they are banking on a 14 point swing at that stage.

At the start of the season a lot of people(myself included) made excuses for this defense saying they were playing against some of the best QBs and offenses in the NFL. However they have now been lit up in conseuctive weeks by Dan Orlovsky and Rex Grossman. I actually dread to think of what would happen if they somehow made the Superbowl against the Packers or Saints

A lot of teams defer, as they should. Even going beyond the potential point swing it brings, it also gives you the chance to set your halftime adjustments in motion.

Particularly on offense, it can be difficult for the head coach, offensive coordinator, QB and other players to all get on the same page. But they get the chance to make adjustments at halftime and can come out to set the tone right away.

Anyone who doesn't defer is an idiot.

McCarthy always defers as well. Some WI media have questioned it given that the defense has not played as well as last year. However, as mentioned, often they score at the end of the 1st half, come out in the 2nd half with another score, and boom the game is just about over. Now the opposition is in "keep up" mode and the defense starts looking for turnovers.

BeerBaron
12-12-2011, 10:19 AM
McCarthy always defers as well. Some WI media have questioned it given that the defense has not played as well as last year. However, as mentioned, often they score at the end of the 1st half, come out in the 2nd half with another score, and boom the game is just about over. Now the opposition is in "keep up" mode and the defense starts looking for turnovers.

Indeed. It's one I'd definitely add to "BeerBaron Tzu's Art of Football."

Defer to win games and crush your opponent.

TheFinisher
12-12-2011, 10:28 AM
Dallas just needs to clean house and rebuild from the ground up. Their current group of core players has been together since 2006 and they have shown time and time again that they can't rise to the occasion on the big stage. There are some serious mental issues in that locker room and it's getting to the point where it's spilling out to the field where everyone watching the game can't help but see it. Guys play scared because no one wants to be the one to make the big mistake and be ripped by the media all week, there's no accountability and that includes the head coach. Garrett was in a state of denial all last week saying he would of handled the end of the Arizona game the exact same way if he had to do it over, actually trying to persuade people that he did the right thing.

They lose games in improbable fashion and have become a laughing stock. I'd rather have a team of street FAs who have zero talent and get blown out every week but at least showed some pride in the process.

/endrant

bigbluedefense
12-12-2011, 10:36 AM
Here's a stat to tinker over:

Eli Manning has 6 4th quarter comebacks this season. We have 7 wins. So basically, the only times we've won this whole season were when Eli had the ball at the end of the game.

Think about that for a second. He's basically carried us this entire season. Our defense has been that awful.

BeerBaron
12-12-2011, 10:39 AM
Here's a stat to tinker over:

Eli Manning has 6 4th quarter comebacks this season. We have 7 wins. So basically, the only times we've won this whole season were when Eli had the ball at the end of the game.

Think about that for a second. He's basically carried us this entire season. Our defense has been that awful.

Eli is elite. I have him as the 5th/6th best QB in the league. He IS the Giants right now. Few others would make that offense work and be able to carry it over the defense's shenanigans.

But ask most other non-Giants fans and you'll be lucky to see Eli in the top 10.

"Oh, he's not elite, he's not elite..." Bull ****.

Giantsfan1080
12-12-2011, 10:39 AM
Great read as always BB. I look forward to these every Monday morning and you don't dissapoint.

A Perfect Score
12-12-2011, 10:40 AM
Since I'm not sure where else to put this, I'll just come out and say I've been absolutely blown away by Jason Pierre Paul every time I watch him play. The kid is amazing. He's playing like a Top 5 DE in the league right now and the sky is the limit for him. That open space tackle on Felix Jones in the flats last night made my jaw drop...For a 275 lb defensive end to track, contact and wrap up a back that elusive in the open field with no defensive assistance was just phenomenal. Justin Tuck is one of my favorite defensive linemen in the entire league, but JPP could surpass him as the premier player on that line very soon.

Also, Terrell Suggs is having a DPOTY type season and nobody is talking about it. 13 sacks, 6 FF, 2 INT and 58 tackles. He's been absolutely dominant this year.

Jughead10
12-12-2011, 10:40 AM
Eli is elite. I have him as the 5th/6th best QB in the league. He IS the Giants right now. Few others would make that offense work and be able to carry it over the defense's shenanigans.

But ask most other non-Giants fans and you'll be lucky to see Eli in the top 10.

"Oh, he's not elite, he's not elite..." Bull ****.

It's true. This is a 1-15 or 2-14 team without Eli.

jth1331
12-12-2011, 10:43 AM
Watching the Broncos game, when it went 10-0 in the 4th after Gould hit that field goal, I thought we were toast.
Then Tebow starts leading a drive, and I'm thinking maybe. Then the fumble.
Then he leads a nice drive down for a TD, and almost got the onside kick. We didn't, and I figured its over. Then God swept forward and pushed Marion Barber out of bounds to ensure time would be on the clock for a game tying field goal for his second son. At that point, I was shellshocked.
Then, when all looked lost as Marion Barber was running for daylight, God pushed Wesley Woodyard's hand and knocked loose the football, and bounced the ball straight to Elvis Dumervil.
Then Tebow did the rest.
I mean seriously, you could not script it any better than what happened.

Also BeerBaron, I think you should mention the prevent offense that prevents you from winning. Chicago went into a freakin shell once they got a 10-0 lead and never went aggressive til OT.

BeerBaron
12-12-2011, 10:45 AM
Great read as always BB. I look forward to these every Monday morning and you don't dissapoint.

Thanks, as long as I'm not too busy, I try to crank one out after getting ahead at work.

Since I'm not sure where else to put this, I'll just come out and say I've been absolutely blown away by Jason Pierre Paul every time I watch him play. The kid is amazing. He's playing like a Top 5 DE in the league right now and the sky is the limit for him. That open space tackle on Felix Jones in the flats last night made my jaw drop...For a 275 lb defensive end to track, contact and wrap up a back that elusive in the open field with no defensive assistance was just phenomenal. Justin Tuck is one of my favorite defensive linemen in the entire league, but JPP could surpass him as the premier player on that line very soon.

Also, Terrell Suggs is having a DPOTY type season and nobody is talking about it. 13 sacks, 6 FF, 2 INT and 58 tackles. He's been absolutely dominant this year.

He's ridiculous, absolutely, but he's also probably the 3rd or 4th wheel on that defense. That's why he gets very little attention. You have two future HoFers and the best DT/DE/Beast in Ngata, so Suggs doesn't get the spotlight much.

He should win. Unless I'm forgetting someone really obvious, no one else is having a season quite that ridiculous.

It's true. This is a 1-15 or 2-14 team without Eli.

You're probably not far from the truth...I would hope that if they didn't have Eli, they'd playcall and scheme more intelligently on both sides of the ball...but probably not.

jrdrylie
12-12-2011, 10:54 AM
It's true. This is a 1-15 or 2-14 team without Eli.

Eli is great, but I don't think the Giants would fall that far. They have some good receivers, good running backs, and good pass rushers. They would not make the playoffs, but I think David Carr could get them 5 wins.

BeerBaron
12-12-2011, 10:56 AM
Eli is great, but I don't think the Giants would fall that far. They have some good receivers, good running backs, and good pass rushers. They would not make the playoffs, but I think David Carr could get them 5 wins.

Replace "Giants" with "Colts" and "David Carr" with "Curtis Painter" and you have everyone's mindset about the Colts in the preseason.

I'd like to think that the Giants wouldn't be that bad...but damn, they very well could be.

JBCX
12-12-2011, 11:01 AM
The Patriots will not win a Super Bowl ever again with Tom Brady.

Belichick has simply lost his touch with regard to defense. The game has passed him by. Evaluating defensive talent in the draft has also passed him by.

BeerBaron
12-12-2011, 11:02 AM
The Patriots will not win a Super Bowl ever again with Tom Brady.

Belichick has simply lost his touch with regard to defense. The game has passed him by. Evaluating defensive talent in the draft has also passed him by.

Maybe. Actually spending the picks rather than just stockpiling them for the future might help. As might a few free agents.

The offense keeps right on humming along, but they're dragging the defense behind them like a broken limb.

Razor
12-12-2011, 11:09 AM
Maybe. Actually spending the picks rather than just stockpiling them for the future might help. As might a few free agents.

The offense keeps right on humming along, but they're dragging the defense behind them like a broken limb.

That's an accurate assessment imo. There are options for us though. We could just use our picks on a center (Konz), a pass rusher (Perry) a safety and a 5-tech. In FA there could be some studs for the 3-4 as well iirc. I think that Calais Campbell is a FA after this season... There are definitely options for us. The problem is that BB just doesn't seem to take an approach that would actually work.

JBCX
12-12-2011, 11:09 AM
Maybe. Actually spending the picks rather than just stockpiling them for the future might help. As might a few free agents.

The offense keeps right on humming along, but they're dragging the defense behind them like a broken limb.

You can win Super Bowls with average defense if you have an elite offense, but you can NEVER win a Super Bowl with a shoddy defense.

I don't care how good Tom Brady looks right now; I guarantee they will be ousted early in the playoffs again with that crap defense.

Philliez01
12-12-2011, 12:04 PM
Always like these posts BB, I would be interested in seeing you rank the top-31 QBs (cause Gabbert doesn't count) in the league.

Jvig43
12-12-2011, 12:09 PM
You can win Super Bowls with average defense if you have an elite offense, but you can NEVER win a Super Bowl with a shoddy defense.

I don't care how good Tom Brady looks right now; I guarantee they will be ousted early in the playoffs again with that crap defense.

Your acting like your the only one who thinks this. I think anyone who believes the opposite of this is the minority.

BeerBaron
12-12-2011, 12:17 PM
Always like these posts BB, I would be interested in seeing you rank the top-31 QBs (cause Gabbert doesn't count) in the league.

I'm a terrible ranker. I tend to do more "tiers" of players and then adjust within those tiers based on situation. It's how I do my player rating for draft classes too.

The tippity top elite players are easier:

1.) Rodgers
2.) Brady
3.) Brees
4.) Roethlisberger
5.) Eli

Completely healthy Peyton would probably be 3rd or 4th.

Then things get a little muddier, where it becomes less of a straight ranking and where my gut tells me to put the guys:

6.) Rivers
7.) Romo
8.) Healthy Cutler
9.) Stafford
10.) Healthy Schaub
11.) Healthy Vick
12.) Matt Ryan
13.) Joe Flacco
14.) Alex Smith
15.) Cam Newton
16.) Andy Dalton

(Being rookies holds Newton and Dalton down a little for now, definite potential to move way up though.)

And then there's a clusterfuck of guys who I've very "meh" on. You could interchange these guys however you want...I just put numbers to keep track.

18.) Freeman
19.) Cassel
20.) Sanchez
21.) Fitzpatrick
22.) Kolb
23.) McCoy
24.) Ponder
25.) Hasselbeck
26.) Tebow
27.) Bradford
28.) Matt Moore
29.) Carson Palmer

And then there are just guys who have no business on an NFL field:

30.) Grossman
31.) Painter/Orlovsky
32.) T-Jax
293487.) Gabbert

And I didn't include guys who are starting now but have no future, like Hanie and Palko.

I suppose you could throw Yates in there somewhere too. I really liked what I saw yesterday, but it was way to small of sample size.

Raiderz4Life
12-12-2011, 01:35 PM
I'm really torn about Palmer but I really think you're selling him way too short BB.

He's not anywhere top-15 for sure...but 29?? rly??

BeerBaron
12-12-2011, 01:35 PM
I'm really torn about Palmer but I really think you're selling him way too short BB.

He's not anywhere top-15 for sure...but 29?? rly??

"And then there's a clusterfuck of guys who I've very "meh" on. You could interchange these guys however you want...I just put numbers to keep track."

He's just in that group of guys I'd want nothing to do with really.

Raiderz4Life
12-12-2011, 01:41 PM
oops...should have probably finished reading that sentence...ma bad...

I will chime in that JPP is absolutely nasty. I'd like to see JCBX try to hate on him now. You just can't if you do you're just a bitter troll.

I also commented last night on how I hate watching Jacobs run. I played FB as my offensive position in HS and at 5'9" 220lbs I would run right into the pile and drag my ass for yards. Now obvious HS is totally different than the NFL but if I was a 6'2 250lbs runningback....I'd be running like a wild buffalo into the pile and smacking people around a la Earl Campbell.

BeerBaron
12-12-2011, 01:44 PM
oops...should have probably finished reading that sentence...ma bad...

I will chime in that JPP is absolutely nasty. I'd like to see JCBX try to hate on him now. You just can't if you do you're just a bitter troll.

I also commented last night on how I hate watching Jacobs run. I played FB as my offensive position in HS and at 5'9" 220lbs I would run right into the pile and drag my ass for yards. Now obvious HS is totally different than the NFL but if I was a 6'2 250lbs runningback....I'd be running like a wild buffalo into the pile and smacking people around a la Earl Campbell.

Yeah, I figured someone would just not read it eventually and go by the numbers, lol. I debated putting Freeman towards the end of the higher tier but meh...he and all the Bucs have been terrible.

As for Jacobs...it kills me to watch him run. He runs so tall with ballerina feet and gets knocked on his ass by anything stronger than an arm tackle.

That guy should be dragging people like you'd see in an old NFL Films show form the 70s...but no.

NY+Giants=NYG
12-12-2011, 01:52 PM
Yeah, I figured someone would just not read it eventually and go by the numbers, lol. I debated putting Freeman towards the end of the higher tier but meh...he and all the Bucs have been terrible.

As for Jacobs...it kills me to watch him run. He runs so tall with ballerina feet and gets knocked on his ass by anything stronger than an arm tackle.

That guy should be dragging people like you'd see in an old NFL Films show form the 70s...but no.

People will find ways to hate on JPP. Mind you, most giants fans, including myself HATED the pick! Who drafts a damn DE with barely any football playing experience?! But Reese and Marc Ross did one heck of a job!!

hockey619
12-12-2011, 01:52 PM
Yeah, I figured someone would just not read it eventually and go by the numbers, lol. I debated putting Freeman towards the end of the higher tier but meh...he and all the Bucs have been terrible.

As for Jacobs...it kills me to watch him run. He runs so tall with ballerina feet and gets knocked on his ass by anything stronger than an arm tackle.

That guy should be dragging people like you'd see in an old NFL Films show form the 70s...but no.

been saying it a for awhile: jacobs is suffering from what ron dayne suffered from. hes a big guy who tries to run like reggie bush.

except jacobs cant make a cut to save his life, his agility is atrocious. On that note, have you also noticed how many zone stretch plays we run with him? its embarrassing, he never gets anywhere on any of them. but that doesnt stop us from trying.

BeerBaron
12-12-2011, 01:56 PM
been saying it a for awhile: jacobs is suffering from what ron dayne suffered from. hes a big guy who tries to run like reggie bush.

except jacobs cant make a cut to save his life, his agility is atrocious. On that note, have you also noticed how many zone stretch plays we run with him? its embarrassing, he never gets anywhere on any of them. but that doesnt stop us from trying.

Oh and draws...the draws! THE DRAWS!!

If I ever see Brandon Jacobs get stonewalled at the LoS on a draw play again, it will be too soon.

Jughead10
12-12-2011, 01:58 PM
Oh and draws...the draws! THE DRAWS!!

If I ever see Brandon Jacobs get stonewalled at the LoS on a draw play again, it will be too soon.

The draws are really only in the hurry up offense. If we could ever hold a lead I think we'd see less of them.

NY+Giants=NYG
12-12-2011, 02:01 PM
Dallas is running horizontal stretches, and a great designed screen pass in the red zone, and we ran FADE-FADE-DRAW! What in the world?! Something out of a video game where the gamer just runs the same play over.

The situational play calling in the red zone with Gilbride is my biggest negative for him. The next one are the WR rules, specifically the choice and option routes. You need a PHd in our system to run it.

But I HATE the draw!

49ersfan_87
12-12-2011, 02:18 PM
How about the Vikings benching Christian Ponder? I don't get it...top 12 pick, you're 2-10 in a meaningless season. Obviously the game itself was in reach because Webb nearly came back to win, but win or lose you're still out of the playoffs. You believed in him enough to make him a top 12 pick, and you bench him after a bad game. This raises 2 questions to me

Have the Vikings given up on him already? I wonder if they will look at Barkley, RG3, etc in the draft

Do they start Ponder the rest of the year or try to find out what Webb has to offer? He got the team in a position to win on the final play.

BeerBaron
12-12-2011, 02:19 PM
Ponder has played well in other games. Plus, iirc, he missed some practices this week with a hip injury. Once the game got out of hand, I think they pulled him to protect him a bit. Webb just happened to give them a nice spark.

prock
12-12-2011, 02:20 PM
How about the Vikings benching Christian Ponder? I don't get it...top 12 pick, you're 2-10 in a meaningless season. Obviously the game itself was in reach because Webb nearly came back to win, but win or lose you're still out of the playoffs. You believed in him enough to make him a top 12 pick, and you bench him after a bad game. This raises 2 questions to me

Have the Vikings given up on him already? I wonder if they will look at Barkley, RG3, etc in the draft

Do they start Ponder the rest of the year or try to find out what Webb has to offer? He got the team in a position to win on the final play.

Webb is the backup. Ponder has shown lots of flashes this year. He is our quarterback of the future.

Damix
12-12-2011, 02:20 PM
Did that have to do more with Ponder's injury?

TimmG6376
12-12-2011, 02:22 PM
How about the Vikings benching Christian Ponder? I don't get it...top 12 pick, you're 2-10 in a meaningless season. Obviously the game itself was in reach because Webb nearly came back to win, but win or lose you're still out of the playoffs. You believed in him enough to make him a top 12 pick, and you bench him after a bad game. This raises 2 questions to me

Have the Vikings given up on him already? I wonder if they will look at Barkley, RG3, etc in the draft

Do they start Ponder the rest of the year or try to find out what Webb has to offer? He got the team in a position to win on the final play.

I think they go back to Ponder. This was just a case of the coaches saving Ponder from himself. He was spiraling downward in that game for whatever reason. I think they took the opportunity as a learning moment for the young QB, and give him a chance to redeem himself this week.

49ersfan_87
12-12-2011, 02:28 PM
Also, talking about QB's...the Palmer trade looks worse and worse. The point of trading for him mid-season is to salvage the year and make the playoffs, which is why Oakland gave up such a bounty. However they've spiraled out of the playoff race (partly due to injuries to their best offensive playmakers, but that defense isn't helping). If they were going to miss the playoffs anyway, might have well as given Pryor a chance, and negotiate a trade for Palmer all offseason in a position of some power. But thats hindsight.

It also hurts to lose those valuable picks to fix the holes on the team. Not to mention while he's shown some playmaking flashes, he's already had 3 games of throwing 3+ picks or more. Add in his age (32 in December) and the Raiders can hope to get anywhere from 3-5 years of his best ability, while losing out on high picks in the first 2 years of his tenure.

fenikz
12-12-2011, 02:31 PM
Will you mention Arizona when they win their 7th game out of 8?

eventually you will have to not ignore em

Raiderz4Life
12-12-2011, 02:32 PM
*sigh*....only reason I haven't started drinking is because of school but with the semester just about over I may just start.

We're in absolutely terrible position. We're about to get beat out by Tim ******* Tebow and we have the injuriezzzzz!!!!!

I wan't to go beat the hell out of DMCs ***** ass.

BeerBaron
12-12-2011, 02:36 PM
Will you mention Arizona when they win their 7th game out of 8?

eventually you will have to not ignore em

Beating San Fran was quite nice. I just have trouble getting fired up to talk about the Cardinals...

J-Mike88
12-12-2011, 04:06 PM
I want to like you Giants...I want to feel like you could make a crazy playoff run and upset teams like the Packers and Saints. But your coordinators suck, their schemes suck, and unless you win out, you're probably sitting at home for the playoffs waiting to hear who your new coaches will be next year.
Haven't read thru everyone else's post, but that's definitely not true there.
The Giants can lose to the Jets, but as long as they win at home vs the Redskins this week, and at home against Dallas again in week 17, they win the division.

And yes, them as a #4 seed coming into Green Bay would certainly cause some concern for us. That's a team we don't really want to play again. Luckily, we won't have Farve playing for us though.

BeerBaron
12-12-2011, 04:11 PM
Haven't read thru everyone else's post, but that's definitely not true there.
The Giants can lose to the Jets, but as long as they win at home vs the Redskins this week, and at home against Dallas again in week 17, they win the division.

And yes, them as a #4 seed coming into Green Bay would certainly cause some concern for us. That's a team we don't really want to play again. Luckily, we won't have Farve playing for us though.

Right now, they have the same record as the Cowboys. I suppose you are technically correct...I mean, they could lose out and make the playoffs as long as the Cowboys also lose out.

But the Giants can't take that chance. The Cowboys took them down to the wire once and were up two scores with about 5:00 to play...you can't count on winning those games every time.

The Jets are also in their own playoff push and won't go down easily.

Winning out is what the Giants need to do in my opinion. It would leave nothing to chance and would mean they are on a hot streak headed into the playoffs.

Jughead10
12-12-2011, 04:17 PM
Right now, they have the same record as the Cowboys. I suppose you are technically correct...I mean, they could lose out and make the playoffs as long as the Cowboys also lose out.

But the Giants can't take that chance. The Cowboys took them down to the wire once and were up two scores with about 5:00 to play...you can't count on winning those games every time.

The Jets are also in their own playoff push and won't go down easily.

Winning out is what the Giants need to do in my opinion. It would leave nothing to chance and would mean they are on a hot streak headed into the playoffs.

He was right. We have to beat Dallas, and split the Redskins/Jets, and we make the playoffs no matter what anyone else does. We also don't have to leave home for the next 3 weeks. 4 weeks if we make the playoffs.

BeerBaron
12-12-2011, 04:19 PM
He was right. We have to beat Dallas, and split the Redskins/Jets, and we make the playoffs no matter what anyone else does.

Well my point is that if you do go 2-1, the Cowboys could win out and beat you out.

Just win every game and we won't need to get into the details, capice?

J-Mike88
12-12-2011, 04:25 PM
Hard to believe the Cards have just beaten San Fran and Dallas back-to-back, close wins. Both were against division leaders.

Haven't spent any time watching them, so not sure how it happened. Well I know how the ends happened but not the whole game.

What the hell is going on out there?

BeerBaron
12-12-2011, 04:31 PM
Hard to believe the Cards have just beaten San Fran and Dallas back-to-back, close wins. Both were against division leaders.

Haven't spent any time watching them, so not sure how it happened. Well I know how the ends happened but not the whole game.

What the hell is going on out there?

Defense playing well is a lot of it.g Skelton has also played better in more games than he's been lousy in.

Brodeur
12-12-2011, 04:39 PM
Hey now, the Lions secondary is average as long as Delmas and Chris Houston are healthy (and they should be by week 17).

Giantsfan1080
12-12-2011, 04:45 PM
The Jim Leonard injury is going to hurt the Jets because he's the QB of the defense and his replacements are terrible. They're going to have a hard time against the Eagles.

niel89
12-12-2011, 05:19 PM
Love the weekly threads. Always good topics to talk through.

As you know, everyone hates Cam Cameron but since that Seattle game Ray Rice average amount of carries increased from about 15 carries to 24 carries and Flaccos avg attempts went from 40 attempts down to 26. Cameron actually has made a pretty big shift in the past four weeks.

Rice has been the focus of the offense and has been getting consistent carries even when he wasn't being that effective like in the SF game. He even leads the team in receptions.

Thoughts on the Ravens offense and if you think it can be good enough to win it all?

BeerBaron
12-12-2011, 05:45 PM
Love the weekly threads. Always good topics to talk through.

As you know, everyone hates Cam Cameron but since that Seattle game Ray Rice average amount of carries increased from about 15 carries to 24 carries and Flaccos avg attempts went from 40 attempts down to 26. Cameron actually has made a pretty big shift in the past four weeks.

Rice has been the focus of the offense and has been getting consistent carries even when he wasn't being that effective like in the SF game. He even leads the team in receptions.

Thoughts on the Ravens offense and if you think it can be good enough to win it all?

I still trust Cam Cameron about as much as I trust(ed?) Mike Martz, and that isn't much at all.

These guys have shifted successfully in philosophy, but during the inevitable times where the offense is going to struggle (they happen to everyone eventually,) he'll probably revert back to his old ways and Flacco will throw 50 times.

I really want to like the Ravens, but I still have some doubts with Flacco come playoff time and Cameron is always a threat to revert.

Dallas357
12-12-2011, 06:10 PM
reading all this gabbert hate now will be hilarious come next year.

BeerBaron
12-12-2011, 06:12 PM
reading all this gabbert hate now will be hilarious come next year.

No, no it won't. Blaine Gabbert is never going to amount to a damn thing in the NFL.

They could work with him as much as humanly possible in the offseason but the fear will still be there. The guy has quite possibly the worst pocket presence ever. That leads to mechanics going to hell, that leads to accuracy going to hell, and that all leads to major mistakes.

DraftSavant
12-12-2011, 06:20 PM
No, no it won't. Blaine Gabbert is never going to amount to a damn thing in the NFL.

They could work with him as much as humanly possible in the offseason but the fear will still be there. The guy has quite possibly the worst pocket presence ever. That leads to mechanics going to hell, that leads to accuracy going to hell, and that all leads to major mistakes.

Even IF the Jaguars hit on everything to give him the weapons to succeed, and MJD doesn't break down, and the Jags go through an onslaught of teams with no pass rush (making it a 7 on 7 tournament for Blaine) then he might have a decent season.

I would never, ever, ever, EVER trust him against a defense that can get any sort of pass rush. He'll fold. As such, I'll never really trust him as an NFL starter. Ever.

Rosebud
12-12-2011, 06:21 PM
No, no it won't. Blaine Gabbert is never going to amount to a damn thing in the NFL.

They could work with him as much as humanly possible in the offseason but the fear will still be there. The guy has quite possibly the worst pocket presence ever. That leads to mechanics going to hell, that leads to accuracy going to hell, and that all leads to major mistakes.

I dunno, I can't remember anybody off the top of my head but there were some guys who got played as rookies back in the pre-Roethlisberger days when most rookies sat on the bench all year, and looked terrified and confused but with an offseason to learn from that terror were able to turn things around. Sure it's better for the guy not to have that terror at all, but he is a super raw and inexperienced rookie with no offseason to get his feet wet and without out of this league physical tools to help him compensate. I don't expect him to ever be a top tier franchise guy but a slightly more dynamic prime David Gerrard still isn't out of the question if he can build some confidence feeding MJD.

J-Mike88
12-12-2011, 06:22 PM
Hey Beer,
I believe the Bears would be 10-3 if Cutler hadn't gone down. And that includes Forte going down.

niel89
12-12-2011, 06:26 PM
The only way I see Gabbert becoming something is if he gets consistent great protection. If I were going to try to move forward with him, I would invest heavily in OL.

comahan
12-12-2011, 06:38 PM
My favorite thing about Yates, and the most impressive part of his game imo, is his poise and pocket presence. His ability to slide around the pocket to avoid pressure is something that a lot of vets dont have in their game, let alone rookies. My only real complaint about him would be that he's been inconsistent with his accuracy. Other than that, I really like what ive seen. Very good in play action, athletic, can throw on the run, keeps his eyes down the field, doesnt Gabbert under pressure, has good zip on the ball, etc. It's fun to watch so far.

Now, having said that, the movement on the official Texans board that Yates is better than Schaub is absolutely ridiculous. Calm down people.

Thecollegedropout
12-12-2011, 06:50 PM
The Jim Leonard injury is going to hurt the Jets because he's the QB of the defense and his replacements are terrible. They're going to have a hard time against the Eagles.
The injury does suck but the Jets did reach to the AFC Title game last year without Leonhard so its not going to end the team suddenly. I would imagine David Harris will pick up the duties like he did last season.

My lone concern is Jim was huge for the punt return duties as he never fumbled. Hopefully Kerley can go back to his September-November form where he was reliable.

JBCX
12-12-2011, 06:52 PM
How is Wayne Hunter going to block Jason Babin? That's the real question for the Jets this week.

Thecollegedropout
12-12-2011, 07:02 PM
How is Wayne Hunter going to block Jason Babin? That's the real question for the Jets this week.
He won't but then again if he is going to be on the field that much, the Jets will have Greene run at him and watch Babin get clobbered as Babin is mucho stinko at run defense. Babin will need to get up on RB Screens because the Jets will be doing that all day.

JBCX
12-12-2011, 07:09 PM
He won't but then again if he is going to be on the field that much, the Jets will have Greene run at him and watch Babin get clobbered as Babin is mucho stinko at run defense. Babin will need to get up on RB Screens because the Jets will be doing that all day.

Except that Greene is a slow, plodding running back that can't exploit bad run defense as well as other explosive backs. Greene is precisely the kind of running back that the Eagles run defense is actually capable of stopping. Oh, and don't forget that Greene has hands of stone and is pulled on 3rd down.

Thecollegedropout
12-12-2011, 07:11 PM
Except that Greene is a slow, plodding running back that can't exploit bad run defense as well as other explosive backs. Greene is precisely the kind of running back that the Eagles run defense is actually capable of stopping. Oh, and don't forget that Greene has hands of stone and is pulled on 3rd down.
Greene has been a machine the past 3-4 weeks....he breaks tackles too and is tough to bring down.

and if Greene cannot get a RB screen done(Which he gashed the Chiefs on last week), LT surely can.

Likewise Burress has been an Eagle killer for years and I don't think Samuel/DRC will be stopping him.

JBCX
12-12-2011, 07:16 PM
Greene has been a machine the past 3-4 weeks....he breaks tackles too and is tough to bring down.


He is still slow and plodding. He has no explosiveness. The RBs that have really hurt the Eagles this year are the ones that can take advantage of missed gap assignments and explode for long gains with elite acceleration. Greene is not this kind of RB.


and if Greene cannot get a RB screen done(Which he gashed the Chiefs on last week), LT surely can.


Is LT even fully healthy?


Likewise Burress has been an Eagle killer for years and I don't think Samuel/DRC will be stopping him.

Burress is also 50 years old and has the speed of a propped-up cadaver. This is not the same Buress that Eagles teams have faced in the past, and is precisely the kind of slow, physical WR that Nnamdi Asomugha is made to shut down.

BeerBaron
12-13-2011, 07:44 AM
Even IF the Jaguars hit on everything to give him the weapons to succeed, and MJD doesn't break down, and the Jags go through an onslaught of teams with no pass rush (making it a 7 on 7 tournament for Blaine) then he might have a decent season.

I would never, ever, ever, EVER trust him against a defense that can get any sort of pass rush. He'll fold. As such, I'll never really trust him as an NFL starter. Ever.

Boom. Roasted. I expect him out of the league in 3 years for this reason. Or...at least be a "developing backup" somewhere. If Ryan Leaf and Brady Quinn could catch on as backups for a few years, Gabbert probably could too.

I dunno, I can't remember anybody off the top of my head but there were some guys who got played as rookies back in the pre-Roethlisberger days when most rookies sat on the bench all year, and looked terrified and confused but with an offseason to learn from that terror were able to turn things around. Sure it's better for the guy not to have that terror at all, but he is a super raw and inexperienced rookie with no offseason to get his feet wet and without out of this league physical tools to help him compensate. I don't expect him to ever be a top tier franchise guy but a slightly more dynamic prime David Gerrard still isn't out of the question if he can build some confidence feeding MJD.

The problem is that his playing this year has already smashed his confidence pretty good. Remember in the Chargers game where pass rushers were coming and he just spiked the ball two yards in front of himself for intentional grounding? That is one of the worst plays I've ever seen out of a QB. I'd rather him throw a pick into triple coverage than that. (Well, obviously that hurts the team more... but at least there, he'd have done it trying to make a play.) Spiking the ball in front of himself just says "don't hit me!"

Gabbert plays scared. He did in college too where he took every snap out of the shotgun and had his targets called by the head coach.

He's the type of spread QB that doesn't translate to the NFL. Infinite bubble screens against Big 12 defenses where defenders couldn't even get close to him. This was your typical Blaine Gabbert series in college: "screen, slant, slant, draw, screen, slant, screen..." That **** will work for all of about 5 minutes in the pros before defenders start closing those gaps off and force Gabbert to hold the ball a little, where he helplessly shits and pisses himself in the pocket.

Hey Beer,
I believe the Bears would be 10-3 if Cutler hadn't gone down. And that includes Forte going down.

It's a very good possibility. Even without Cutler and Forte, we lost those 3 games by what...an average of like 5 points? For the first time as a Bear, Cutler was money for several weeks in a row. Martz had his offense changed up perfectly and Cutler was making **** happen.

It's why I'm extra disappointed in this season. I truly think we could have given the Packers a run on Christmas day and who knows what we could have done in the playoffs. All aspects of our team were playing well up until his injury.

The only way I see Gabbert becoming something is if he gets consistent great protection. If I were going to try to move forward with him, I would invest heavily in OL.

They've already kind of done this. They have first and second round picks invested in Monroe and Britton if they can get and stay healthy. They have a long time veteran center in Meester, and they have a pair of guards they seem to like in Rackley (3rd round pick last year) and Nwaneri.

That appears to be their line for both now and in the future. Getting healthy and playing together could help, but I think Gabbert could get damn near perfect protection and struggle. You could assemble a line of HoFers in their prime and defenders will still get pressure at times.

That is where, as the QB, you need to be able to slide and adjust. Or get the ball out quickly and accurately. Gabbert just crumples into a heap or fires wildly to nobody and calls it a play.

I just hate ***** QBs. Learn to take a shot dammit.

MetSox17
12-13-2011, 11:07 AM
They should go all Mighty Ducks on Gabbert, and tie him down to a chair while there's a pass rush in front of him. And just let him get hit constantly until he stops being scared of getting grazed by a defender.

BeerBaron
12-13-2011, 11:11 AM
They should go all Mighty Ducks on Gabbert, and tie him down to a chair while there's a pass rush in front of him. And just let him get hit constantly until he stops being scared of getting grazed by a defender.

Nah, the NFLPA would probably argue that it counts as a "padded practice" and count it against the team.

Stupidest ******* rule ever. Every player rep and owner who agreed to that should be drug into the street, drawn and quartered and then have their remains incinerated then have their name written out of all known records, erasing them to history.

"Waaah! We're grown men who get paid hundreds of thousands or millions of dollars to play a sport, but we don't want to practice it too hard!! Waaaah!!!"

brat316
12-13-2011, 12:03 PM
You are allowed to have padded practices. Only 1 a week though.

Unbiased
12-13-2011, 12:06 PM
Gabbert stepped into throws while getting hit yesterday. Did no one watch the game or do you base everything on the two nationally televised games that you saw?

BeerBaron
12-13-2011, 12:13 PM
Gabbert stepped into throws while getting hit yesterday. Did no one watch the game or do you base everything on the two nationally televised games that you saw?

I wouldn't be scared of the Buccaneers either.

bigbluedefense
12-13-2011, 12:49 PM
I'll be absolutely shocked if Blaine Gabbert amounts to anything as an NFL qb.

If there is a qb available when the Jags pick, they would be making a horrible mistake to pass up that qb. You can always sell Gabbert's "potential" to somebody for a 3rd round pick, take your lumps financially, and move on.

The sooner they move on, the better. I doubt any coach wants to come to the Jags with the understanding that they have to stand by Gabbert.

JBCX
12-13-2011, 12:52 PM
I'll be absolutely shocked if Blaine Gabbert amounts to anything as an NFL qb.

If there is a qb available when the Jags pick, they would be making a horrible mistake to pass up that qb. You can always sell Gabbert's "potential" to somebody for a 3rd round pick, take your lumps financially, and move on.

The sooner they move on, the better. I doubt any coach wants to come to the Jags with the understanding that they have to stand by Gabbert.

Giants fans could have been saying the same thing after Eli's rookie seaseon. He was turrrible in 2004 (48% completion, 6TDs/9INTs)

It's simply way too early to give up on ANY QB after a single season.

fenikz
12-13-2011, 12:54 PM
I'd like to say, I told you so

At Mizzou he was constantly trying to avoid phantom pressure and would instantly run to the sideline or throw it away

though my god was I wrong about Von Miller

BeerBaron
12-13-2011, 01:08 PM
People who keep saying to give Blaine Gabbert more time should ******* watch him play.

I don't know how to make this more clear. He isn't making "rookie mistakes" or "trying to do too much." The guy is literally terrified of contact and looks completely ******* lost trying to execute a pro offense against a pro defense.

I should go dig up the article I posted before about Blaine Gabbert's game against the Chargers. HIS LONGEST COMPLETION TRAVELED 7 YARDS THROUGH THE AIR!! ALMOST ALL OF HIS OTHER COMPLETIONS TRAVELED 5 OR LESS!

These are Jimmy Clausen/Brady Quinn traits. These aren't possible to "grow out of" with experience. They only get worse as whatever confidence he may have continues to get shattered over and over.

You've heard my line. Within 3 years, the guy will be out as a starter in the league. I'd say out of the league entirely but if Quinn and Ryan Leaf can hang on as backups for a little while, he probably can too.

Please don't even use him in the same sentence as a real QB like Eli ever again.

And btw JBCX, how is your Redskins Superbowl prediction looking?

A Perfect Score
12-13-2011, 01:16 PM
Blaine Gabbert is absolutely awful, how is this even a discussion? He was terrible in college and he's going to be terrible in the NFL. The kid is gunshy, he looks like David Carr in the pocket after he got his ass kicked for 6 seasons. I'd be very shocked if the Jags didn't take a good hard look or even draft Barkley or RGIII if they're available at the pick, especially with a new coaching staff in place.

BeerBaron
12-13-2011, 01:19 PM
Blaine Gabbert is absolutely awful, how is this even a discussion? He was terrible in college and he's going to be terrible in the NFL. The kid is gunshy, he looks like David Carr in the pocket after he got his ass kicked for 6 seasons. I'd be very shocked if the Jags didn't take a good hard look or even draft Barkley or RGIII if they're available at the pick, especially with a new coaching staff in place.

Same GM though. That guy doesn't want to admit a mistake in front of new ownership I'm sure.

He'll hang his next coach with the noose that is Blaine Gabbert.

bigbluedefense
12-13-2011, 01:19 PM
Gabbert is so bad Gruden didn't even bother to kiss his ass. Gruden would kiss a 3rd string qb's ass bc he's so afraid of burning bridges.

Yet he had no problem ripping on Gabbert. Bc long story short, Gabbert is just awful.

BeerBaron
12-13-2011, 01:20 PM
Gabbert is so bad Gruden didn't even bother to kiss his ass. Gruden would kiss a 3rd string qb's ass bc he's so afraid of burning bridges.

Yet he had no problem ripping on Gabbert. Bc long story short, Gabbert is just awful.

Gruden would rather bring in Rob Johnson or Marques Tuiassopsosposppo again than deal with Gabbert.

A Perfect Score
12-13-2011, 01:21 PM
Gruden would rather bring in Rob Johnson or Marques Tuiassopsosposppo again than deal with Gabbert.

I might too, all things considered.

BeerBaron
12-13-2011, 01:22 PM
I don't actually remember if he draft Tuias...whatever or if that was the year after he left the Raiders. I do know he brought Rob Johnson to the Bucs before he realized Brad Johnson wasn't completely terrible.

Regardless, both are better than Gabbert.

Flyboy
12-13-2011, 01:25 PM
Gabbert is so bad Gruden didn't even bother to kiss his ass. Gruden would kiss a 3rd string qb's ass bc he's so afraid of burning bridges.

Yet he had no problem ripping on Gabbert. Bc long story short, Gabbert is just awful.

I noticed that too when I was watching MNF. It was epic.

TimmG6376
12-13-2011, 01:31 PM
Gabbert is so bad Gruden didn't even bother to kiss his ass. Gruden would kiss a 3rd string qb's ass bc he's so afraid of burning bridges.

Yet he had no problem ripping on Gabbert. Bc long story short, Gabbert is just awful.

Times have changed because in the pre-draft process when Gruden "interviewed" the top QB prospects he in fact did kiss his ass.

fenikz
12-13-2011, 01:38 PM
Gruden was about to pounce on Dalton, he was so in love with him

Rosebud
12-13-2011, 03:45 PM
*shrug* I haven't seen much of Gabbert so hold no strong opinion of him. But he struck me as a guy who'd need to learn to not panic under pressure, that was always my biggest concern with him as a prospect. And while a lot of guys who have this problem can get shell-shocked I'm not sure Gabbert's broken for good yet. That OL has some talent and if they can bolster that OL some more while finding him a #1 Receiver that he can just throw the ball up to when he panics, I think Gabbert could still learn to deal with pressure and make good on the tool set he has.

Jughead10
12-13-2011, 03:46 PM
I'd wait until the beginning of next season before I'd write him off. If you don't see it early next year, I don't think you ever will.

Rosebud
12-13-2011, 03:49 PM
Giants fans could have been saying the same thing after Eli's rookie seaseon. He was turrrible in 2004 (48% completion, 6TDs/9INTs)

It's simply way too early to give up on ANY QB after a single season.

********. Eli's number may have been bad but he never played scared and even lead a game winning drive late against the Cowboys where he changed the play at the LOS to a run that Barber (I think it was tiki) scored on. That not only showed us the balls of Eli Manning but also his ability to read the game and truly control the offense. Plus Eli stepped into a lot of hits while getting the ball out and to his receivers. Quit talking about **** you're ignorant of.

Rosebud
12-13-2011, 03:51 PM
I'd wait until the beginning of next season before I'd write him off. If you don't see it early next year, I don't think you ever will.

That's where I'm at with him. Yeah he's scared, but he's an inexperienced rookie who had no offseason to ease him in. If he bounces back next season when he's had an offseason to re-calibrate and adjust to the NFL I wouldn't be surprised.

Jughead10
12-13-2011, 03:53 PM
The guy also had a shortened rookie offseason and crap coaching situation.

Raiderz4Life
12-13-2011, 03:53 PM
********. Eli's number may have been bad but he never played scared and even lead a game winning drive late against the Cowboys where he changed the play at the LOS to a run that Barber (I think it was tiki) scored on. That not only showed us the balls of Eli Manning but also his ability to read the game and truly control the offense. Plus Eli stepped into a lot of hits while getting the ball out and to his receivers. Quit talking about **** you're ignorant of.

That's like trying to get that annoying ass dog to shut up...it's never gonna happen.

BeerBaron
12-13-2011, 03:56 PM
Cam Newton is just fine, as are Dalton, Ponder, and maybe even Locker and Yates.

Have those guys had typical rookie struggles that will improve with an offseason of work? Absolutely. But each and every one is showing flashes of long term potential and best of all, none appear to be playing scared.

The lack of an offseason is not an excuse for Gabbert.

Rosebud
12-13-2011, 04:16 PM
That's like trying to get that annoying ass dog to shut up...it's never gonna happen.

http://www.gunblast.com/images/SHOT2003_Day2/DSC05703.jpg
"This is has never failed to shut that damn dog up."

fenikz
12-19-2011, 12:03 AM
cardinals good enough for a paragraph yet?

bantx
12-19-2011, 01:15 AM
what about the chajaz

MetSox17
12-19-2011, 03:34 AM
Tony Romo is a top five qb, write about it.

descendency
12-19-2011, 03:35 AM
what about the chajaz

If Phillip Rivers could stop playing like a dead feces monkey, then they might actually win the division in 2012.

descendency
12-19-2011, 03:37 AM
Nah, the NFLPA would probably argue that it counts as a "padded practice" and count it against the team.

Stupidest ******* rule ever. Every player rep and owner who agreed to that should be drug into the street, drawn and quartered and then have their remains incinerated then have their name written out of all known records, erasing them to history.

"Waaah! We're grown men who get paid hundreds of thousands or millions of dollars to play a sport, but we don't want to practice it too hard!! Waaaah!!!"

I think an "unnamed coach" had the best quote: "They got everything but someone to play for them"

bantx
12-19-2011, 03:45 AM
If Phillip Rivers could stop playing like a dead feces monkey, then they might actually win the division in 2012.

He's shook the monkey off his back in the past few games.

jth1331
12-19-2011, 08:24 AM
By the way, going back to BeerBaron's thoughts on defensive penalties resulting in automatic first downs.
In the Denver-NE game, the Pats faced 3rd and 24 on their own 6 yard line. Completed a pass to the 20, bringing up 4th down. But no, there was hands to the face on the defense, resulting in a 5 yard penalty and a 1st down. New England got 1st and 10 on their 11 yard line. The Pats didn't score on this drive, but were able to get the ball to midfield and drastically change field position as the Broncos started their next drive on their own 10 yard line.
Stop making the little defensive penalties fricken automatic first downs. Its ******** to go from a 3rd and 24 on the 6 yard line to 1st and 10 on the 11.

RCAChainGang
12-19-2011, 11:25 AM
Tony Romo is a top five qb, write about it.

Romo definitely is better than people most people put him. A lot of his losses have come from meltdowns by the entire team. All of the games the cowboys have lost save the Philedelphia game were decided by 4 points or less.

For some reason I just enjoy watching Romo play and I think he is a fantastic QB. Top 5 would be tough.
1.Drew Brees
2.Tom Brady
3. Aaron Rodgers
4. Matthew Stafford
5 - Eli Manning, Tony Romo
Of course Jay Cutler lurks as well as Matt Ryan, but I would take Tony Romo over Roethlisberger, Ryan, Cutler, and Rivers.
Eli and Tony is a tossup for me.

Jvig43
12-19-2011, 11:53 AM
By the way, going back to BeerBaron's thoughts on defensive penalties resulting in automatic first downs.
In the Denver-NE game, the Pats faced 3rd and 24 on their own 6 yard line. Completed a pass to the 20, bringing up 4th down. But no, there was hands to the face on the defense, resulting in a 5 yard penalty and a 1st down. New England got 1st and 10 on their 11 yard line. The Pats didn't score on this drive, but were able to get the ball to midfield and drastically change field position as the Broncos started their next drive on their own 10 yard line.
Stop making the little defensive penalties fricken automatic first downs. Its ******** to go from a 3rd and 24 on the 6 yard line to 1st and 10 on the 11.

Or just stop committing them.

No just kidding, I agree with this sentiment and really wish they would change the PI penalties.

Rosebud
12-19-2011, 04:52 PM
Romo definitely is better than people most people put him. A lot of his losses have come from meltdowns by the entire team. All of the games the cowboys have lost save the Philedelphia game were decided by 4 points or less.

For some reason I just enjoy watching Romo play and I think he is a fantastic QB. Top 5 would be tough.
1.Drew Brees
2.Tom Brady
3. Aaron Rodgers
4. Matthew Stafford
5 - Eli Manning, Tony Romo
Of course Jay Cutler lurks as well as Matt Ryan, but I would take Tony Romo over Roethlisberger, Ryan, Cutler, and Rivers.
Eli and Tony is a tossup for me.

Stafford over Big Ben, Cutler, Eli and Rivers seems really weird to me.