PDA

View Full Version : Todd Haley Fired


Razor
12-12-2011, 10:24 AM
Bound to happen:
http://www.kcchiefs.com/news/article-2/HALEY-RELIEVED-OF-DUTIES/9f2d029b-c450-48cb-9791-8038582a3270

Matthew Jones
12-12-2011, 10:24 AM
Haley was never a personal favorite; the Chiefs should be better off without him and his abrasive personality.

Jvig43
12-12-2011, 10:24 AM
Good. I ******* hate that guy.

TimmG6376
12-12-2011, 10:25 AM
Bound to happen:
http://www.kcchiefs.com/news/article-2/HALEY-RELIEVED-OF-DUTIES/9f2d029b-c450-48cb-9791-8038582a3270

Who will be the interim?

jrdrylie
12-12-2011, 10:25 AM
I've always liked Haley because he went to the same college as I did but this had to happen. I think this also ends Cassel's time in Kansas City.

BeerBaron
12-12-2011, 10:27 AM
Romeo Crennell would be my guess as interim coach since he has past experience.

Haley did always seem like an asshole. Can't say I'm too surprised...the injuries suck, but even before these guys got hurt this year, the team was sucking. They took a terrible approach to the shortened offseason and he chose his offensive coordinator poorly.

Bulldogs
12-12-2011, 10:28 AM
Haley always struck me as a douchebag.

Razor
12-12-2011, 10:28 AM
I've never been a fan of Haley as a HC simply because he can't keep his composure. It's alright to be an emotional guy, but if you can't control it you'll lose your team. I think that's what happened in KC. I don't know who'll be the interim, but I think Crennell is a good choice. However, I don't think he'd be a good permanent replacement. I'd look for a coach with ties to the Patriots here due to the whole Pioli thing..

TimmG6376
12-12-2011, 10:30 AM
Haley always struck me as a stoner.

Fixed

http://cdn3.sbnation.com/entry_photo_images/1500769/haley_large.jpg

vidae
12-12-2011, 10:33 AM
I like Haley a lot, and I like his fiery personality, but it was time. I had been calling this for a few weeks so it wasn't a surprise at all.

Bill Muir is likely gone too (thank god!) and I expect RAC to be gone at the end of the season but to coach the team from here on out.

This is bringing a lot of mixed emotions. I really did like Haley, but the team wasn't prepared at all in a lot of games and we've lost 5 games by 27+ or more points.

Here is to hoping that we stay the hell away from McDaniels.

AntoinCD
12-12-2011, 10:34 AM
I like Haley a lot, and I like his fiery personality, but it was time. I had been calling this for a few weeks so it wasn't a surprise at all.

Bill Muir is likely gone too (thank god!) and I expect RAC to be gone at the end of the season but to coach the team from here on out.

This is bringing a lot of mixed emotions. I really did like Haley, but the team wasn't prepared at all in a lot of games and we've lost 5 games by 27+ or more points.

Here is to hoping that we stay the hell away from McDaniels.

Id give anything to have Romeo back in Foxboro

BeerBaron
12-12-2011, 10:36 AM
Yeah, the Chiefs defense has been their lone brightish spot. Not great, but better than anything else the team has going for it.

Still, if it's promote Romeo to HC or hire someone brand new, I'd go with the brand new option.

You ready for some McD Vidae?

vidae
12-12-2011, 10:40 AM
I'm not, and I really hope Pioli isn't even considering it. McDaniels was flat out awful in Denver, and he hasn't been much better as an OC down in St. Louis.

I like RAC too, but being blown out so much would pretty much guarantee that he is gone too. RAC turned our defense into something legit for a stretch of the games this year, but meh.

diabsoule
12-12-2011, 10:41 AM
I'm going to toss this name in the ring to replace Haley: Jeff Fisher

A Perfect Score
12-12-2011, 10:42 AM
I'm going to toss this name in the ring to replace Haley: Jeff Fisher

I quite literally just typed that at vidae in IRC 30 seconds before you posted it. Makes alot of sense if you ask me.

Bulldogs
12-12-2011, 10:43 AM
http://thebiglead.fantasysportsven.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/todd-haley-josh-mcdaniels.jpg

boknows34
12-12-2011, 10:43 AM
No surprise at all. His relationship with Pioli had become strained apparently. And yes, he does come across as a d-bag too.

http://thechive.files.wordpress.com/2011/05/1304072100_1304047163_1.gif

vidae
12-12-2011, 10:44 AM
I'm going to toss this name in the ring to replace Haley: Jeff Fisher

I quite literally just typed that at vidae in IRC 30 seconds before you posted it. Makes alot of sense if you ask me.

That would make me ECSTATIC. I would love Jeff Fisher here in KC, absolutely ******* love it. And he could keep RAC to run the defense if he wanted.

BeerBaron
12-12-2011, 10:48 AM
Eh, Fisher is somewhat overrated. Worlds better than McD would be, but I don't think he's an elite team builder like the Chiefs need.

The team has a few bright spots of talent, but needs the most important position of all: a QB.

Maybe RG3 could be his McNair 2.0?

DraftSavant
12-12-2011, 10:49 AM
*shrug* I always liked Haley. That team was playing hard as **** for him earlier in the year, despite being obliterated by injuries.

BeerBaron
12-12-2011, 10:51 AM
*shrug* I always liked Haley. That team was playing hard as **** for him earlier in the year, despite being obliterated by injuries.

If he were less of an asshole, it might not have hurt him. But not having a good relationship with the GM plus being an overall asshole overcame the injuries excuse.

jrdrylie
12-12-2011, 10:51 AM
http://thechive.files.wordpress.com/2011/05/1304072100_1304047163_1.gif

I absolutely love this picture.

I would love it if McDaniels goes to Kansas City. He could trade his first round pick to Denver for Tebow and then Elway could draft Barkley, a QB he would actually like.

vidae
12-12-2011, 10:55 AM
I think the injuries excuse is total ******** too. Every team has injuries. Maybe not to as many starters or impact players as we've had, but your team needs to at least be competitive.

It's just too bad we won this many games now luls. Hopefully we're able to get a QB and get a coach who has a brain in his head.

And please god don't let it be McDaniels.

Razor
12-12-2011, 10:56 AM
Eh, Fisher is somewhat overrated. Worlds better than McD would be, but I don't think he's an elite team builder like the Chiefs need.

The team has a few bright spots of talent, but needs the most important position of all: a QB.

Maybe RG3 could be his McNair 2.0?

Well, given that Jeff Fisher had to suffer the asshole that is Bud Adams in Tennessee I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt as a team builder. He's already got a great running game and a pretty good defense (at least on paper). All he needs is RGIII and the Chiefs look ready to go once again.

TheMatriculator
12-12-2011, 10:57 AM
*shrug* I always liked Haley. That team was playing hard as **** for him earlier in the year, despite being obliterated by injuries.

That's the key phrase...earlier in the year.

The meltdown yesterday had a lot to do with this. I think Pioli might have been planning to pull the trigger at the end of the year but the meltdown caused Clark to step in and accelerate the schedule. This is something that Lamar would have never stood for and Clark is, after all, his father's son.

KC news sources confirming that RAC will be interim.

nepg
12-12-2011, 10:59 AM
McDaniels would have very little control in KC. I think he'd be good for the team. Doesn't bring a lot of change, attitude of the locker room stays mostly the same, but the team would have a better offensive system and would be much more prepared each week.

He'd keep Crennel and the transition would be smooth with the relationship he already has with Cassel.

His tenure in Denver is overblown. He showed a lot of great traits, but just wasn't ready for that much control. With StL, that offense looks a lot better with Feeley under center. I don't think Bradford was ready to take on that offense.

vidae
12-12-2011, 11:06 AM
Oh god, it's nepg!

McDaniels would have very little control in KC. I think he'd be good for the team. Doesn't bring a lot of change, attitude of the locker room stays mostly the same

Yeah, because what I want for our ****** team is for no change and the same attitude in the locker room.

Cassel should be done here. McDaniels sucks as an OC in St. Louis and it's pretty clear there. McDaniels is a ****** ******* coach and he doesn't belong anywhere near KC. He would be a MUCH worse option than Haley sticking it out.

BeerBaron
12-12-2011, 11:08 AM
vidae vs. nepg? Get 'ya popcorn ready! Let's watch.

vidae
12-12-2011, 11:09 AM
It isn't a fair fight. I know what I'm talking about when it comes to the Chiefs.

Matthew Jones
12-12-2011, 11:11 AM
How about Eric Mangini?

TheMatriculator
12-12-2011, 11:12 AM
Oh god, it's nepg!

Well, said!

vidae
12-12-2011, 11:13 AM
How about Eric Mangini?

How about no?

We've had some pretty awful coaches here in the past. How about a Jeff Fisher? Or a Brian Billick? Or a Bill Cowher? Or hell, how about a Jon Gruden, who I don't even LIKE?

How about an A list head coach for a change. Forget this Patriots coaching tree, it sucks. Except for RAC in half the games this year.

BeerBaron
12-12-2011, 11:15 AM
How about no?

We've had some pretty awful coaches here in the past. How about a Jeff Fisher? Or a Brian Billick? Or a Bill Cowher? Or hell, how about a Jon Gruden, who I don't even LIKE?

How about an A list head coach for a change. Forget this Patriots coaching tree, it sucks. Except for RAC in half the games.

Your logic and reasoning makes sense.

But Pioli says "**** you" and hires McD or Mangini. You watch. Just as the Chiefs never draft their own QBs, so will they forever be damned to B or even C listers at head coach.

BeerBaron
12-12-2011, 11:18 AM
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/12/12/romeo-crennel-will-coach-chiefs-for-final-three-games/

Among the names that have been thrown around as possible Chiefs head coaches in 2012 are former Broncos head coach Josh McDaniels, Iowa head coach Kirk Ferentz and former Browns and Jets head coach Eric Mangini. All occupy branches of the Bill Belichick family tree, as do Crennel and Chiefs G.M. Scott Pioli.

That is some sort of unholy trinity of suck.

vidae
12-12-2011, 11:18 AM
Your logic and reasoning makes sense.

But Pioli says "**** you" and hires McD or Mangini. You watch. Just as the Chiefs never draft their own QBs, so will they forever be damned to B or even C listers at head coach.

You know, I've always been nice to you and you're cutting me deep to my soul. You are PURE EVIL. :( :'(

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/12/12/romeo-crennel-will-coach-chiefs-for-final-three-games/



That is some sort of unholy trinity of suck.

Yeah, can you show me a single person from that awesome Patriots tree that has had any success anywhere else? Ugh. fml.

BeerBaron
12-12-2011, 11:19 AM
You know, I've always been nice to you and you're cutting me deep to my soul. You are PURE EVIL. :( :'(

I speak only the truth...I am sorry vidae. I'm not one to sugarcoat anything for anyone.

Take your pick now: McD, Mangini or Ferentz.

H.O.O.D
12-12-2011, 11:23 AM
Could Kansas City look for a Chin to return and lead the team ?

I'll peg Todd Bowles as a guy who at least gets interviewed for this job...and I wouldn't be surprised if he is the hire. Russ Grimm & Joe Philbin are 2 other guys who may get an interview with KC IMO.

vidae
12-12-2011, 11:24 AM
How about the fourth option: Fire Pioli too? That way we wouldn't be saddled with this ridiculous Patriots coaching tree and we can move on. If Pioli hires Mangini or McDaniels he should be fired. I'm so sick of this ****.

This team does have a lot of talent. We're a QB and RT away from a decent offense and our defense, with better coaching, could be a very good unit.

**** my ******* life. Ugh.

vidae
12-12-2011, 11:27 AM
And ugh, Jason LaCanfora is talking about McDaniels might be good because he brought Tebow into the league! He took a flier on Tebow!

THIS IS THE PRIME REASON HE SHOULD NOT BE HIRED EVER AGAIN.

ImBrotherCain
12-12-2011, 11:29 AM
And ugh, Jason LaCanfora is talking about McDaniels might be good because he brought Tebow into the league! He took a flier on Tebow!

THIS IS THE PRIME REASON HE SHOULD NOT BE HIRED EVER AGAIN.

It's going to be okay Vidae.

Nothing has happened yet and is unlikely to happen for sometime. TOR releases in 3 days. We all love you... We don't need you to bust an artery.

TheMatriculator
12-12-2011, 11:29 AM
Can you imagine what a McD hire would do to season ticket sales? That's happening over Clark Hunt's dead body.

BeerBaron
12-12-2011, 11:29 AM
And ugh, Jason LaCanfora is talking about McDaniels might be good because he brought Tebow into the league! He took a flier on Tebow!

THIS IS THE PRIME REASON HE SHOULD NOT BE HIRED EVER AGAIN.

The Tebow situation has blinded everyone's sensibilities. One freakish thing going on is disrupting what even other teams do.

Of those Patriots tree options, I'd kill for Ferentz or Mangini over McD. Preferably it would be none of the above, but seriously, anyone but McD...

Jughead10
12-12-2011, 11:30 AM
I think Mangini would be a good hire. I'm a big supporter of his and I've said on here before I think he really got screwed his last two jobs.

vidae
12-12-2011, 11:30 AM
Can you imagine what a McD hire would do to season ticket sales? That's happening over Clark Hunt's dead body.

Well bruddah, I can tell you right now that I will not be renewing my tickets if Josh McDaniels is hired. There is no way I'm going to pay that much money to watch that baby-faced **** nugget run this team even more into the ground. No thank you.

The Tebow situation has blinded everyone's sensibilities. One freakish thing going on is disrupting what even other teams do.

Of those Patriots tree options, I'd kill for Ferentz or Mangini over McD. Preferably it would be none of the above, but seriously, anyone but McD...

I would take anyone over McDaniels. Mangini would be like hiring Bill ******* Walsh compared to McDaniels.

Shane P. Hallam
12-12-2011, 11:32 AM
Kirk Ferentz! Pioli-Iowa connection!

BeerBaron
12-12-2011, 11:34 AM
I would take anyone over McDaniels. Mangini would be like hiring Bill ******* Walsh compared to McDaniels.

I volunteer as coach of the team. My platform will be based on three things:

1.) Run the football until teams prove they can stop it. And even then, still run sometimes some more.

2.) Never play the prevent defense unless the other team absolutely needs a TD without enough time to work the middle of the field.

3.) I will draft sensibly. No fliers on "high ceiling" developmental guys for me. I would build the most blue-collar, lunch pail team imaginable around the studs the Chiefs already have like Berry and Charles.

jrdrylie
12-12-2011, 11:34 AM
Yeah, can you show me a single person from that awesome Patriots tree that has had any success anywhere else? Ugh. fml.

Nick Saban, Pat Hill, and Kirk Ferentz have had success in college. But nobody in the coaching tree has done anything in the NFL. Hiring Ferentz would be hilarious. He was a hot NFL coaching prospect 10 years ago. Hiring him now, years after he was at his highest point, would be ridiculous.

nepg
12-12-2011, 11:40 AM
I could see Jeff Fisher. Mangini is a good head coach. He got hosed in both stops. With Pioli, he'd be able to build something that will last. They still would need someone to run the offense, and that is where Mangini has struggled in the past.

vidae
12-12-2011, 11:40 AM
I volunteer as coach of the team. My platform will be based on three things:

1.) Run the football until teams prove they can stop it. And even then, still run sometimes some more.

2.) Never play the prevent defense unless the other team absolutely needs a TD without enough time to work the middle of the field.

3.) I will draft sensibly. No fliers on "high ceiling" developmental guys for me. I would build the most blue-collar, lunch pail team imaginable around the studs the Chiefs already have like Berry and Charles.

When can you start?

Nick Saban, Pat Hill, and Kirk Ferentz have had success in college. But nobody in the coaching tree has done anything in the NFL. Hiring Ferentz would be hilarious. He was a hot NFL coaching prospect 10 years ago. Hiring him now, years after he was at his highest point, would be ridiculous.

I completely agree, and yet I would do this 100 times out of a 100 if the choices were Ferentz and McDaniels.

Kirk Ferentz! Pioli-Iowa connection!

You cheeky bastard. I thought we were best friends now?

Prowler
12-12-2011, 11:41 AM
Lol at Mangini. He really knows how to handle running backs to limit wear and tear...and wasn't his offensive coordinator they guy who kept screaming obscenities in Colt McCoy's ear every single practice? I'm not a big fan of his coaching style.

KC should be an extremely attractive place to play for coaches. I like the organization, the home field crowds, competitive division, not as much scrutiny as New York media, and some great pieces.

I don't fully trust Cowher to come back and be great. Joe Gibbs didn't do it, so I don't know if Cowher could or would even want too...honestly, if they went that route, I'd almost want Herm Edwards back. He's had a few years off, newish team vs before, and they can keep building off of the defense and running the ball.

vidae
12-12-2011, 11:42 AM
I always really liked Herm Edwards, but no, I don't think he'd be a good fit here.

BeerBaron
12-12-2011, 11:42 AM
Uhh...I think even vidae would prefer McD to Herm getting a round 2.

Prowler
12-12-2011, 11:44 AM
Its the "power of belief" that I'm angling towards. Denver has Tebow. KC can "play the right way" and "play to win the game" to counter him.

Prowler
12-12-2011, 11:47 AM
And I would be weary of hiring another "rising young offensive mind" for the Chiefs. How about an old offensive mind? Mornhinweg? Chan Gailey was performing with smoke and mirrors earlier this year in Buffalo, so maybe there can be an old genius revival?

TimmG6376
12-12-2011, 11:49 AM
Romeo Crennell would be my guess as interim coach since he has past experience.

Haley did always seem like an asshole. Can't say I'm too surprised...the injuries suck, but even before these guys got hurt this year, the team was sucking. They took a terrible approach to the shortened offseason and he chose his offensive coordinator poorly.

Adam Schefter is reporting that Crennell will in fact be the interim (via Twitter).

vidae
12-12-2011, 11:52 AM
As it stands right now, we have one of three options.

1) Hire an established coach (Fisher, Cowher, Gruden, Billick, etc) to coach the team. They bring experience to a relatively young team. This is what I think we should do.

2) Hire an up and coming coordinator. Winston Moss or Tom Clements could be hot names. I'm a bit wary of this one because you're not entirely sure what you're going to get. Zero head coaching experience could hurt more than it could help, but you never know.

3) Hire some ****** Patriots re-tread. Obviously I'm not a huge fan of this one. I don't want McDaniels or Mangini anywhere near this team, but McDaniels being hired would unleash a pissed off vidae the likes of which you've never seen.

I'd go with option 1 if it were me, but I could be ok with option 2, just not as happy about it. Option 3 would be the worst thing for this team going forward and it would piss me off greatly.

edit: ps I love how, according to Jason LaCanfora, the Dolphins would go after an A-list coach, but the Chiefs will probably get F lister Josh McDaniels because PIOLI KNOWS HIM. I don't get what people don't understand about the fact that calling plays when you have a team like the Pats isn't rocket science. Ugh. Someone hold me.

TimmG6376
12-12-2011, 11:57 AM
As it stands right now, we have one of three options.

1) Hire an established coach (Fisher, Cowher, Gruden, Billick, etc) to coach the team. They bring experience to a relatively young team. This is what I think we should do.

2) Hire an up and coming coordinator. Winston Moss or Tom Clements could be hot names. I'm a bit wary of this one because you're not entirely sure what you're going to get. Zero head coaching experience could hurt more than it could help, but you never know.

3) Hire some ****** Patriots re-tread. Obviously I'm not a huge fan of this one. I don't want McDaniels or Mangini anywhere near this team, but McDaniels being hired would unleash a pissed off vidae the likes of which you've never seen.

I'd go with option 1 if it were me, but I could be ok with option 2, just not as happy about it. Option 3 would be the worst thing for this team going forward and it would piss me off greatly.

I would think Clements will get some attention as well. Though he has already put his name in the hat for the Penn State job.

Outside of Rodgers' success (Rodgers raves about Clements), under his tutelage Grbac, K. Stewart, and Maddox, made Pro Bowls. I think his brief run as OC in Buffalo was decent as well.

BeerBaron
12-12-2011, 11:58 AM
As it stands right now, we have one of three options.

1) Hire an established coach (Fisher, Cowher, Gruden, Billick, etc) to coach the team. They bring experience to a relatively young team. This is what I think we should do.

2) Hire an up and coming coordinator. Winston Moss or Tom Clements could be hot names. I'm a bit wary of this one because you're not entirely sure what you're going to get. Zero head coaching experience could hurt more than it could help, but you never know.

3) Hire some ****** Patriots re-tread. Obviously I'm not a huge fan of this one. I don't want McDaniels or Mangini anywhere near this team, but McDaniels being hired would unleash a pissed off vidae the likes of which you've never seen.

I'd go with option 1 if it were me, but I could be ok with option 2, just not as happy about it. Option 3 would be the worst thing for this team going forward and it would piss me off greatly.

Gotta think price too like a real NFL GM.

Option 1 could be ungodly expensive. I don't think the Chiefs are Bengals/Cardinals level historically cheap, but a guy like Fisher or Billick or Gruden would be pricy.

Option 2 would be dirt cheap, but comes with a whole set of inherent risks.

Option 3....sorry vidae.

vidae
12-12-2011, 12:01 PM
Gotta think price too like a real NFL GM.

Option 1 could be ungodly expensive. I don't think the Chiefs are Bengals/Cardinals level historically cheap, but a guy like Fisher or Billick or Gruden would be pricy.

Option 2 would be dirt cheap, but comes with a whole set of inherent risks.

Option 3....sorry vidae.

The Chiefs have a lot of money to mess around with and I just don't understand that reasoning. If you want to win, and are serious about your franchise moving forward, spend the money. You'll make more money in the long term if your team is contending for championships.

Ugh HOLD ME BB.

BeerBaron
12-12-2011, 12:02 PM
The Chiefs have a lot of money to mess around with and I just don't understand that reasoning. If you want to win, and are serious about your franchise moving forward, spend the money. You'll make more money in the long term if your team is contending for championships.

Ugh HOLD ME BB.

To get through the next few months, just picture your team making a sensible head coach hire and having RG3 fall into your lap.

It's not impossible!

H.O.O.D
12-12-2011, 12:09 PM
As it stands right now, we have one of three options.

1) Hire an established coach (Fisher, Cowher, Gruden, Billick, etc) to coach the team. They bring experience to a relatively young team. This is what I think we should do.

2) Hire an up and coming coordinator. Winston Moss or Tom Clements could be hot names. I'm a bit wary of this one because you're not entirely sure what you're going to get. Zero head coaching experience could hurt more than it could help, but you never know.

3) Hire some ****** Patriots re-tread. Obviously I'm not a huge fan of this one. I don't want McDaniels or Mangini anywhere near this team, but McDaniels being hired would unleash a pissed off vidae the likes of which you've never seen.

I'd go with option 1 if it were me, but I could be ok with option 2, just not as happy about it. Option 3 would be the worst thing for this team going forward and it would piss me off greatly.

Option 4 could be a combination of 2 & 3, only instead of a Pats retread it could be a Parcells disciple like Todd Bowles.

gpngc
12-12-2011, 12:14 PM
Didn't read this thread but just wanted to point out that Haley got flagged yesterday for what was pretty much a technical foul in basketball. Not sure what he said or to who but it was one of the most embarrassing things I've ever seen.

A head coach T'd up in football... haha

TheMatriculator
12-12-2011, 12:23 PM
Didn't read this thread but just wanted to point out that Haley got flagged yesterday for what was pretty much a technical foul in basketball. Not sure what he said or to who but it was one of the most embarrassing things I've ever seen.

A head coach T'd up in football... haha

Yeah, I mentioned that in an earlier post. There a meltdown in the 3rd quarter when the Chiefs racked up 81 yards in penalties on a single Jets possession including Haley's technical. I suspect Pioli and Hunt had been discussing replacing Todd at the end of the year and this accelerated the process. That's what Lamar Hunt would have done and Clark is his father's son.

vidae
12-12-2011, 12:24 PM
Yeah, that drive was just pathetic. Two PI calls (one for 30 yards) and Haley being called for unsportsmanlike conduct.. ugh.

And:

Goodbye Haley and the entire coaching staff. I defended you guys to anyone with hearing, but it's time.

BOOM! Said this yesterday at 3:05, as soon as that abortion of a game ended. I rule.

TheMatriculator
12-12-2011, 12:29 PM
I really don't think that money will be the real issue in hiring a new coach. Clark spent a lot of money hiring Pioli and Pioli spent a lot of Clark's money last year hiring Wies and RAC. The real issue will be control. Pioli has it and he won't give it up to a head coach who thinks he can play GM as well as coach.

That removes Cowher from the list immediately.

vidae
12-12-2011, 12:35 PM
I really don't think that money will be the real issue in hiring a new coach. Clark spent a lot of money hiring Pioli and Pioli spent a lot of Clark's money last year hiring Wies and RAC. The real issue will be control. Pioli has it and he won't give it up to a head coach who thinks he can play GM as well as coach.

That removes Cowher from the list immediately.

Which is unfortunate.

What about Billick though? He coached with Ozzie Newsome as his GM and they had a great relationship.

T-RICH49
12-12-2011, 12:51 PM
I'm going to toss this name in the ring to replace Haley: Jeff Fisher

that'd be awesome.+rep for you

nepg
12-12-2011, 12:52 PM
Billick was awful with the Ravens. How can the coordinator of the then best offense ever have such ****** offenses? And Ozzie went and got whatever QB Billick wanted. At least McDaniels showed he can put his offense together with juat about any parts he's given.

And you discredit McD way too much. He designed the offense the Pats ran, and then made that offense work in Denver with inferior parts. The guy made some bold moves and didn't get along with the d coordinator he was given. He was never a good fit in Denver.

The Chiefs have alot more on offense than the Pats had in 2008. McD will get along with Crennel, won't have power he now knows he can't handle, and it would be a progressive move that would take all of the good things Haley accomplished to take the team to the next level and beyond.

The top candidates are the two guys he wanted originally (McD & Mangini) and Fisher.

TheMatriculator
12-12-2011, 12:52 PM
Which is unfortunate.

What about Billick though? He coached with Ozzie Newsome as his GM and they had a great relationship.

Unfortunate? Maybe, but Hank Stram was a great coach and a terrible GM so I'd probably have to agree with Pioli on this one.

MidwayMonster31
12-12-2011, 12:55 PM
I think a lot of teams are going to be after Joe Philbin this offseason. The Chiefs do have plenty of young talent, a good set of linebackers and a very good secondary (with Berry healthy). They just need to get more going on offense, fix up the offensive line and be competing with Denver for some time.

Shane P. Hallam
12-12-2011, 01:00 PM
Fisher WOULD make sense. But I guess the bet has to be on McDaniel...

TimmG6376
12-12-2011, 01:03 PM
Billick was awful with the Ravens. How can the coordinator of the then best offense ever have such ****** offenses? And Ozzie went and got whatever QB Billick wanted. At least McDaniels showed he can put his offense together with juat about any parts he's given.

And you discredit McD way too much. He designed the offense the Pats ran, and then made that offense work in Denver with inferior parts. The guy made some bold moves and didn't get along with the d coordinator he was given. He was never a good fit in Denver.

The Chiefs have alot more on offense than the Pats had in 2008. McD will get along with Crennel, won't have power he now knows he can't handle, and it would be a progressive move that would take all of the good things Haley accomplished to take the team to the next level and beyond.

The top candidates are the two guys he wanted originally (McD & Mangini) and Fisher.

no, no he didn't. in before quoted, irrelevant box scores.

I thought Weis designed that offense and McDaniels took it over when Weis left. Am I mistaken?

ElectricEye
12-12-2011, 01:05 PM
I really don't think Josh McDaniel's is as bad of coach as some people do, but I absolutely understand the apprehension about hiring him. If I were an NFL GM/President/Owner...whatever person is making the decision on hiring the coach, I wouldn't have him in the running right now. McDaniel's doesn't deserve another shot until he earns it. Thus far, he hasn't done that in St. Louis.


I thought Weis designed that offense and McDaniels took it over when Weis left. Am I mistaken?

The things we ran with McDaniel's were very different than the things we did with Weis. I think a lot of that has to do with personnel and Brady developing into the best quarterback in the NFL at that time though.

asdf1223
12-12-2011, 01:06 PM
IF anyone wants to hire McD just look at today's primetime game before deciding. The team's an absolute mess. Bradford has gone horribly backwards. The "system" is just incredibly hard to learn. I don't think Pioli or the ownership have any kind of patience for that.

BeerBaron
12-12-2011, 01:08 PM
IF anyone wants to hire McD just look at today's primetime game before deciding. The team's an absolute mess. Bradford has gone horribly backwards. The "system" is just incredibly hard to learn. I don't think Pioli or the ownership have any kind of patience for that.

I'll tell you what people told me when I said that Bradford is regressing: It's obviously his lack of weapons. Clearly.

nepg
12-12-2011, 01:12 PM
no, no he didn't. in before quoted, irrelevant box scores.
The offense worked even though it was missing some pieces. The real issue is Josh not getting along with Nolan and trotting out a garbage defense with a bad coordinator.

Denver fans are jaded over the guy. Whatever. They should have hired Schwartz or Spags and had them give Bates the offense. McD was a bad fit in Denver and wasn't ready for that big of a role. The KC job is perfect for him.

That's not what people want to hear, but that is the situation. Most of the Chiefs fans here have never been on board with the "Patriot Way", and that's fine. I've tried to curb irrational reactions to what the Chiefs do because I understand what they're trying to do and what's important to Pioli.

We all liked Haley, but he was never the first choice. He was almost a last resort with Mangini and McD off the market by the time Pioli had the reins.

Raiderz4Life
12-12-2011, 01:16 PM
I'd like McD in KC.

Would almost guarantee Oakland being out of last place for at least 2 years.

nepg
12-12-2011, 01:16 PM
IF anyone wants to hire McD just look at today's primetime game before deciding. The team's an absolute mess. Bradford has gone horribly backwards. The "system" is just incredibly hard to learn. I don't think Pioli or the ownership have any kind of patience for that.
Cassel already knows the system very well. So does Orton. They have incredible weapons. There would be a very short, almost unnoticeable transition period for this team and all if out would occur and be done with before preseason.

Raiderz4Life
12-12-2011, 01:17 PM
Cassel already knows the system very well. So does Orton. They have incredible weapons. There would be a very short, almost unnoticeable transition period for this team and all if out would occur and be done with before preseason.

BB and other Bears fan know a thing or two about QBs knowing the system.

nepg
12-12-2011, 01:18 PM
BB and other Bears fan know a thing or two about QBs knowing the system.

Poor Caleb Hanie...

BeerBaron
12-12-2011, 01:20 PM
I'll never fully grasped your love of Cassel and McD. I'd rather not deal with either ever. Cassel will never be more than a game manager while McD will never again be anything more than a stat-padding offensive playcaller.

Saints-Tigers
12-12-2011, 01:23 PM
I think his accomplishments as a playcaller are being downplayed by how horrid his GM skills are.

I think McDaniels could be an elite offensive coordinator still.

bantx
12-12-2011, 01:26 PM
This season we saw the many emotions of Videa

Beginning of the season
-We suck time for Luck!
A few games of winning
-We can still make the playoffs!
Losing again
-Now we have no chance for luck, RG3!!
Todd Haley Fired
-Yay
Realize that McDaniels is a possible replacement
-suicide watch

Prowler
12-12-2011, 01:28 PM
I may be biased but I believe that coachs/coordinators should develop their QBs. I could care less how smart of a system a coach has, but you teach your QB to make changes at the line then he'll be more comfortable and productive. No coordinator has ever thrown a touchdown in a game(while coordinating). McDaniels just strikes me as terrible. In Denver he was out to prove that QBs don't matter provided they followed his system, and now he's not doing jack in St Louis with a QB with good potential. How do you **** up an offense with Bradford and Jackson? I can imagine him just blindly following his own teachings and never adapting. He's a young stubborn Martz without the Kurt Warner/Faulk/Bruce/Holt/Az to make him look good. If the oline sucks then go with 3 step drops already dumb***. If they drop to zone from that, then trip up with a slant in, slant out, streak, with Jackson opposite flat, and roll out to buy time. All it takes is one day of gameplanning prep to teach your receivers and QBs what to look for and how to respond with their routes. Diva coordinators are overrated. Give me a "heart" coach any day.

I admit I haven't watched many Rams games, but I'll be watching closely tonight.

nepg
12-12-2011, 01:30 PM
I'll never fully grasped your love of Cassel and McD. I'd rather not deal with either ever. Cassel will never be more than a game manager while McD will never again be anything more than a stat-padding offensive playcaller.

I think I'm pretty fair in my analysis of McD. I call out his weaknesses very readily. I'm not one-sided about it like the people roasting the guy and not giving a reasonable explanation of why they don't think he'd be a good HC in the right situation, and refusing to recognize his what he does very well.

Splat
12-12-2011, 01:30 PM
If they fire RAC as DC I'm going to be pissed off.

Saints-Tigers
12-12-2011, 01:34 PM
based on his job of calling plays in denver, i doubt it. run up and down the field in garbage time, when the other team was barely still playing defense? he's your guy. score in the red zone? good luck with that. have an effective running game? lol. call 4.3 million tight end screens that never, ever work? he's your guy there, too.

people want to look at the patriots success and assume he just didn't do it in denver because of crap like moreno. it was *so* much more than that. i have no idea where this bizarre reaction of trying to justify his incompetence comes from. he was a terrible head coach. he was a terrible OC (in denver). he was also a much worse gm.


It wasn't perfect, but I thought he produced pretty good results for a team that was starting a mediocre QB and a nothing at RB. Even getting ORton and Cassell to put up empty stats is more than anyone else has got out of them... lol.

ATLDirtyBirds
12-12-2011, 01:37 PM
Todd Haley has always seemed like the type of coach I'd ******* hate playing for.

vidae
12-12-2011, 01:49 PM
That's not what people want to hear, but that is the situation. Most of the Chiefs fans here have never been on board with the "Patriot Way", and that's fine. I've tried to curb irrational reactions to what the Chiefs do because I understand what they're trying to do and what's important to Pioli.

Here is nepg claiming Chiefs fans don't understand while he alone is the only person who can possibly fathom what is trying to be done here. Not the first time he has tried this borderline ******** defense, but hopefully it'll be the last.

I think I'm pretty fair in my analysis of McD. I call out his weaknesses very readily. I'm not one-sided about it like the people roasting the guy and not giving a reasonable explanation of why they don't think he'd be a good HC in the right situation, and refusing to recognize his what he does very well.

No you're not. You're the biggest troll this site has ever seen. You're making Breed look like he's a BeerBaron quality poster. Just stop.

nepg isn't even a Chiefs fan and continually tells Chiefs fans that they don't know what they're talking about.

Cassel should be gone too. He's not a franchise QB. nepg coming in to defend Cassel in 3.. 2..

asdf1223
12-12-2011, 02:16 PM
If you hate Haley for being an abrasive douchebag, McDaniels is like 10 times worse with a bigger ego to boot. And unlike Haley, players don't want to play for him either. I'm sorry Chiefs fans but the last thing you want is McDaniels especially if you want to move on from the Matt Cassel era.

And what is this Patriot Way nonsense, trading 4th round picks for Lawrence Maroney? Funny how this "Patriot Way" has worked so awfully for every team other than the Patriots.

prock
12-12-2011, 02:17 PM
No you're not. You're the biggest troll this site has ever seen.


Whoa partner. Let's not go overboard here lol.

vidae
12-12-2011, 02:18 PM
Forget the Patriots way. The Patriots are successful because of Bill Bellichik and Tom Brady. Period. End of story.

If anyone thinks the Chiefs are going to replicate that here with Matt Cassel they're out of their god damn minds.

Whoa partner. Let's not go overboard here lol.

You haven't had to deal with him like Chiefs (and I'm gunna go out on a limb here and say Patriots) fans have had to.

Ness
12-12-2011, 02:28 PM
I've never been a fan of Haley as a HC simply because he can't keep his composure. It's alright to be an emotional guy, but if you can't control it you'll lose your team. I think that's what happened in KC. I don't know who'll be the interim, but I think Crennell is a good choice. However, I don't think he'd be a good permanent replacement. I'd look for a coach with ties to the Patriots here due to the whole Pioli thing..

I think this post sums up how I feel about the situation. I don't watch many Chiefs games and look into what is going on with the team, but he always seemed like a hothead.

Iamcanadian
12-12-2011, 02:33 PM
Forget the Patriots way. The Patriots are successful because of Bill Bellichik and Tom Brady. Period. End of story.

If anyone thinks the Chiefs are going to replicate that here with Matt Cassel they're out of their god damn minds.



You haven't had to deal with him like Chiefs (and I'm gunna go out on a limb here and say Patriots) fans have had to.

NFL Network is reporting that Pioli wanted Haley gone because he won't do as he was told by his GM. Haley wanted Palko to start while Pioli wanted Stanzi, and this wasn't the only decision questioned by Pioli. Face it, Haley wasn't Pioli's hire and he wanted to get his own man in charge and they say McDaniels is the likely choice. After all, McDaniel worked closely with Pioli in NE, trained Cassel and they have good working relationship, so in all likelihood, Cassel will remain as KC's QB for the foreseeable future.
McDaniel is now in charge of St. Louis's offense as their OC and we all know how well that offense is working.
I think the Pioli/Haley team could have provided KC with championship teams but now it is the NE way or no way and I don't think the prospects are nearly as good.

TheMatriculator
12-12-2011, 03:24 PM
NFL Network is reporting that Pioli wanted Haley gone because he won't do as he was told by his GM. Haley wanted Palko to start while Pioli wanted Stanzi, and this wasn't the only decision questioned by Pioli. Face it, Haley wasn't Pioli's hire and he wanted to get his own man in charge and they say McDaniels is the likely choice. After all, McDaniel worked closely with Pioli in NE, trained Cassel and they have good working relationship, so in all likelihood, Cassel will remain as KC's QB for the foreseeable future.
McDaniel is now in charge of St. Louis's offense as their OC and we all know how well that offense is working.
I think the Pioli/Haley team could have provided KC with championship teams but now it is the NE way or no way and I don't think the prospects are nearly as good.

What??? Haley was Pioli's first hire in KC. This isn't just about Palko. There has been a long list of things that Haley has done that can't sit well with Pioli, starting with running off Chan Gailey and ending with the Meltdown in the Meadowlands. I started a thread last week in the Chiefs Forum on the case for firing Haley. Go read it and you will realize that this is a long term problem that started in preseason of the year Todd was hired.

As for McD, his hiring would be the wildest speculation yet. At this point, the Chiefs need someone with experience as an effective head coach. That pretty much rules McD out.

vidae
12-12-2011, 03:29 PM
I figured I'd let you take that one TM. I'll get the next ridiculous speculation or outright lie. Take a break, get some water.

Razor
12-12-2011, 03:33 PM
Would KC consider Sparano?

vidae
12-12-2011, 03:34 PM
Why would they? He's an awful HC as well. He was one of the only guys worse than Haley this year.

Iamcanadian
12-12-2011, 03:45 PM
Anyways, they didn't get along and he was hired because both McDaniels and Mangini were both hired before Pioli got the job.
I find it interesting that McDaniels couldn't get along with anybody including his players, Mangini also ran quite a few of his stars out of Cleveland and now Pioli has run Haley out of town. Seems to be a pattern there with ex NE types. I shutter to think my team's GM is telling his HC who to play and who to sit or else, haven't see that since Matt Millen left the Lions.
NFL Network is speculating McDaniels will be the coaching hire since he and Pioli were close in NE. This will confirm Cassel as your starting QB since he is a product of McDaniels' as his coach.
If I were a KC fan, I think I would be really worried at the rate these NE types run star players out of town and run their franchises into the ground. They all seem to think they are the second coming of BB but without the genius of the man. Too bad, it really looked to me that KC had a bright future until this mess exploded on the team.
Good luck, I think your going to need it.

brat316
12-12-2011, 03:49 PM
Gruden? to KC

vidae
12-12-2011, 03:56 PM
Anyways, they didn't get along and he was hired because both McDaniels and Mangini were both hired before Pioli got the job.
I find it interesting that McDaniels couldn't get along with anybody including his players, Mangini also ran quite a few of his stars out of Cleveland and now Pioli has run Haley out of town. Seems to be a pattern there with ex NE types. I shutter to think my team's GM is telling his HC who to play and who to sit or else, haven't see that since Matt Millen left the Lions.
NFL Network is speculating McDaniels will be the coaching hire since he and Pioli were close in NE. This will confirm Cassel as your starting QB since he is a product of McDaniels' as his coach.
If I were a KC fan, I think I would be really worried at the rate these NE types run star players out of town and run their franchises into the ground. They all seem to think they are the second coming of BB but without the genius of the man. Too bad, it really looked to me that KC had a bright future until this mess exploded on the team.
Good luck, I think your going to need it.

No one, least of all NFLN, can predict a coaching hire before the season is over. And the basis for a coaching hire because "they worked together once" is as flimsy as they come.

I have a feeling you're just trolling now but I can't seem to figure out why. Either way, it's obvious from the last two days that you have no idea what the Chiefs will do in any situation but if you'd like to continue to be wrong I guess I have no problems with it.

TheMatriculator
12-12-2011, 03:58 PM
I figured I'd let you take that one TM. I'll get the next ridiculous speculation or outright lie. Take a break, get some water.

Thanks, man! I just got off the treadmill.

Bucs147
12-12-2011, 04:00 PM
Gruden? to KC

Gruden won't quit MNF to go to a place where he can't handpick his own dummy GM. He wants complete control (and he is utterly awful at scounting talent) and he won't get that in KC.

Prowler
12-12-2011, 04:08 PM
It's a weird situation now. Crennell taking over now will help guide the direction the Chiefs ultimately take. I don't see some little punk coming in and becoming head coach over him. I also don't see how Crennell could some how be rewarded while Haley gets canned. I guess I could chalk it up to insubordination of Haley not obeying management's wishes. I think they would have to hire someone more experienced than Crennell and then that guy will probably want to just clean house and build his own staff. Romeo needs to win some games and have his depleted team show something, but I think KC has to go big on this one. Crennell has always looked like a decent coach, but I've never felt that he could fully direct a team by himself to a championship.

Iamcanadian
12-12-2011, 04:12 PM
No one, least of all NFLN, can predict a coaching hire before the season is over. And the basis for a coaching hire because "they worked together once" is as flimsy as they come.

I have a feeling you're just trolling now but I can't seem to figure out why. Either way, it's obvious from the last two days that you have no idea what the Chiefs will do in any situation but if you'd like to continue to be wrong I guess I have no problems with it.

Well, you haven't a clue either to who they will hire, at least NFLN is speculating that he will hire somebody from NE who he is very familiar with, seems a reasonable speculation to me especially after he went after Cassel as his QB, and Cassel was coached up by McDaniels who got the maximum out of him.
IMO, until Pioli shows he isn't tied to the shoestrings of NE, guessing what he will do, is always going to come back to NE. But of course, he could go in a completely different direction but I doubt it although I have nothing more to base it on.
To be honest, I'm kind of disappointed because I have a soft spot for KC. Just not sure, this will point them in the right direction. I guess time will tell not what you or I think.

OzTitan
12-12-2011, 04:31 PM
Does KC have an apathetic media? is the team willing to hand over significant control to a HC for no good reason? do KC fans love the symmetry of 8-8? Does KC's owner enjoy having a coach for a long time for the sake of it?

If so, Jeff Fisher may be right for you!

Seriously though, it isn't a bad spot for Fisher, but I often wonder why some fans from around the league think so highly of Fisher. I honestly think the 16 year tenure with the Titans tricks people into thinking he was some great coach - not simply a guy who made friends within the Titans upper management and the media, who represented a daring hire for an owner all those years ago who desperately wanted to be 'right' about him.

vidae
12-12-2011, 04:33 PM
The 8-8 that Fisher could bring looks a lot more attractive than the 2-14 that McDaniels will.

Prowler
12-12-2011, 04:36 PM
Fisher is that talented but streaky guy. He at least can take a team to a championship as opposed to some people who are simply not talented at all. He invented the onside kick vs Manning as being a good thing. Has creativity and balls. I respect that, even if it fails on occasion.

Iamcanadian
12-12-2011, 04:48 PM
No way Fisher would work for Pioli. If Pioli wants a HC who will follow orders, he have to take somebody he has worked with before and knows in advance it won't be a problem, or hire a HC who is absolutely desperate for a job.
When you fire a HC who took a team to the Division title the year before after years in the wilderness, because he won't do as he was told, you really think people will line up to work for you. I don't think so.
Haley lost his starting QB, his star RB and his All Pro Safety so how likely was a winning record = zero. Yet, he wasn't allowed a shot at taking the team back into the playoffs next year because he won't obey Pioli's order about who to play and who to sit. Don't think KC will be a popular place for the young or old bright minds in the game, it will likely be a McDaniels or a retread, my money is on McDaniels who developed Cassel into being a starting NFL QB and who is a personal friend of Pioli's.

vidae
12-12-2011, 04:54 PM
You're wrong. The Pioli / Haley relationship was bad LAST year, but you can't justify firing a coach who wins the division.

It got worse during the offseason and this year though.

bored of education
12-12-2011, 05:08 PM
I love Todd Haley as a coach and some of his ********. I loved it. Things were crapping the bed and change needed to be made. HC is always first to go.

Splat
12-12-2011, 05:13 PM
I don't care who the HC is I just want a ******* QB and RT that doesn't suckass.

nepg
12-12-2011, 05:20 PM
Would KC consider Sparano?
Sparano is a possibility as the OL coach/special assistant if Muir is completely cut off.

I think Mangini is the best HC out there, but his lack of success with offensive coordinators is bothersome considering that's the area where the Chiefs need work (almost exclusively). I like Fisher slightly better than McDaniels, too. But he's had the same problems as Mangini with his offenses, and I'm not sure if he'd keep RAC's defense.

I see people bashing McDaniels then (other than njx) all they do is talk about the trades and draft picks he made. There are a lot of things about that situation that made McDaniels a terrible fit in Denver. He was replacing Shanahan, who is the polar opposite of the Belichick/Parcells style of coaching. Obviously McDaniels was going to want to change the way the lockerroom was run and mold the team to fit the way he ran things and the way he thought a championship team should be run. He was also an offensive coach going to a team that had zero issues on offense, but ran a completely different scheme than what he ran. Of course McDaniels is going to install his offense. He was hired based off his success as an offensive coordinator. They should have hired a defensive coach and left Jeremy Bates alone. McDaniels was a bad GM. The other issue he had was butting heads with Nolan and subsequently running him out of town. He wasn't ready for that kind of responsibility and did a poor job with it.

What happened in Denver has little bearing on how he'd do in KC other than he's learned some lessons and is more experienced. The Chiefs have no offense, and the big need from a coaching standpoint is to install one. The Chiefs have a GM. The Chiefs have been run in a Parcells style, so he wouldn't need to weed anyone out (already been taken care of by Haley). The Chiefs have Romeo Crennel, who runs the defense McDaniels wants to back his offense...and who is also extremely easy for a HC to get along with. Not a Mike Nolan situation. There's no QB situation because McD's guy(s) are already in KC...even Stanzi is a great fit for McD. All he has to do in KC is run the offense, manage the clock, and talk to the media.

I keep hearing people throw around random names like Cowher and Billick and Gruden... People complaining and making threats over the possibility of Pioli bringing in a former Patriots coach, but the HC and GM have to be on the same page. Why would Pioli hire someone with a completely different philosophy to work with him? That'd be designed to fail. Haley was brought in because he was the only candidate out there who had the same kind of mindset as Pioli. And it went really well for a couple years. It really came down to Haley being unable to handle a coaching staff. Other than that, he was great.

It's not so much the "Patriot Way" as it is just having a single mindedness throughout the team. That's what makes teams like Baltimore, Pittsburgh, Green Bay, and New England so successful over the years. It's not an "<insert team name> way", it's just "A Way". It's not about "following orders" from Pioli, it's about being on the same page.

Iamcanadian
12-12-2011, 05:25 PM
You're wrong. The Pioli / Haley relationship was bad LAST year, but you can't justify firing a coach who wins the division.

It got worse during the offseason and this year though.

Isn't this a common phenomenon among BB ex people. They seem full of themselves and don't seem to have the skill to get along with people. Their answer to anything is get rid of the problem whether it is a player or a HC.
Look, I don't know what the real problem was between Pioli and Haley, obviously one of them had to go.
For me, Haley took a young inexperienced team to the playoffs with hardly a great QB and the team seemed to have a really bright future. I can understand the fall back this season with all the injuries to impact players but I still believed the future looked pretty upbeat for next season and beyond. Now, it all seems blow up, with a future that is cloudy.
Pioli is going to have a problem IMO, finding a bright guy that will take the job, because they will want some assurances that they control who plays and who doesn't. It is the Al Davis syndrome all over again. I can see Pioli insisting that Cassel be the QB, after all, he brought him to KC and isn't likely to quickly give up on him.
I see no way out for Pioli except to hire McDaniels as they both have a strong relationship from their NE days and McDaniels developed Cassel so he isn't likely to squawk about him being the starting QB.
I hope it works out for you guys, I really do, not only because I have a soft spot for KC but I really think your team has some real talent, quite capable of returning to form next year and getting significantly better.
You are going to need Pioli to prove once more that he can find the right guy. Good Luck!!!

vidae
12-12-2011, 05:28 PM
I don't care who the HC is I just want a ******* QB and RT that doesn't suckass.

We don't need a QB or a RT. According to nepg, Cassel is "perfect" for the system that McDaniels wants to run and Barry Richardson is a good enough option at RT.

Bottom line is this, Cassel is not the QB of the future here, regardless of who is coaching this team. McDaniels is a ****** playcaller anyway, but Cassel isn't good enough to get this team to a championship. Period.

The only person I see disagreeing with any of this on a regular basis is nepg, and we all know his deal.

In order for the Chiefs to turn the corner they're going to need to replace Cassel/Orton at QB and cut Barry Richardson asap.

For any of this to happen though, Pioli has to hire a HC that isn't braindead. And you can talk all you'd like about Pioli hiring a guy who is a good fit for him, etc, blah blah blah, but if Pioli hires another lame duck coach he'll be out of a job too.

If he wants to hire McDaniels to be the next HC of this club, so be it, but they'll both be without a job in two years.

nepg
12-12-2011, 05:46 PM
Isn't this a common phenomenon among BB ex people. They seem full of themselves and don't seem to have the skill to get along with people. Their answer to anything is get rid of the problem whether it is a player or a HC.
Look, I don't know what the real problem was between Pioli and Haley, obviously one of them had to go.
For me, Haley took a young inexperienced team to the playoffs with hardly a great QB and the team seemed to have a really bright future. I can understand the fall back this season with all the injuries to impact players but I still believed the future looked pretty upbeat for next season and beyond.

Haley's downfall was his inability to manage an offensive coaching staff. He just couldn't put that together. He was really good everywhere else. Pioli brought in Weis & Crennel to help Haley figure out how to manage a coaching staff (Pioli put it on easy mode). Once Weis was gone, Haley just couldn't do it. He had trouble ceding power over the offense, and gave the OC position to Muir. I thought that was a good move because Haley was a good playcaller at the end of 2009 and the personnel was a bit more established (pre-injuries)... But then Haley gives Muir playcalling duties and brings in Jim Zorn...then they have Muir doing the run plays and Zorn managing the passing game. These guys haven't worked together, and you saw the results on the field.

Haley can be a great head coach if his OC and DC both controll everything below them while Haley deals with the media, manages the game, and does all of the standard head coaching things while his staff works.

nepg
12-12-2011, 05:52 PM
Here is nepg claiming Chiefs fans don't understand while he alone is the only person who can possibly fathom what is trying to be done here. Not the first time he has tried this borderline ******** defense, but hopefully it'll be the last.

Here's vidae being dramatic. Pretty normal for him lately.

nepg isn't even a Chiefs fan and continually tells Chiefs fans that they don't know what they're talking about.

Oh no! Now I'm not a Chiefs fan because you don't like what I have to say.

vidae
12-12-2011, 06:03 PM
Here's vidae being dramatic. Pretty normal for him lately.



Oh no! Now I'm not a Chiefs fan because you don't like what I have to say.

No, you're not a Chiefs fan because you're not a Chiefs fan. I don't like what you have to say because it's all stupid and all you do is troll. I understand it doesn't stop at Chiefs fans either, so we're not even special!

OzTitan
12-12-2011, 07:56 PM
Fisher is that talented but streaky guy. He at least can take a team to a championship as opposed to some people who are simply not talented at all. He invented the onside kick vs Manning as being a good thing. Has creativity and balls. I respect that, even if it fails on occasion.

Fisher has creativity and balls when he is so far backed into a corner it's almost futile.

Seriously, you'd be hard pressed to find a Titans fan agree with you he has "creativity and balls". The guy played for field goals, and was proud of it.

vidae
12-12-2011, 08:04 PM
Fisher has creativity and balls when he is so far backed into a corner it's almost futile.

Seriously, you'd be hard pressed to find a Titans fan agree with you he has "creativity and balls". The guy played for field goals, and was proud of it.

I respect your opinion 100%, but maybe you're a bit biased? It happens that way.. if a player or coach is fired from a team, the fans of that team usually talk them down.

I'm not saying you're wrong, just that maybe you're a bit biased.

nepg
12-12-2011, 08:06 PM
No, you're not a Chiefs fan because you're not a Chiefs fan. I don't like what you have to say because it's all stupid and all you do is troll. I understand it doesn't stop at Chiefs fans either, so we're not even special!
I quite rightly am a Chiefs fan. Obviously, I'm a Pats fan first, but have been a Chiefs fan for a good 18 years, which is longer than most of you clowns have been alive. It was perfect when I moved to KC ~7 years ago to have a local team that I was already a fan of.

It's not everyone that doesn't get it, just a bunch of highly vocal knuckleheads (talking about local media, which really has rubbed off on some fans I run into) that like to overanalyze certain things that don't even matter and ignore/forget/not even realize other, more important aspects of what's going on with the team.

But I'm trolling because I have a different (and more accurate) perspective on the team...

Whatever, let's get back on topic...

I think Oz's take of Fisher is somewhat accurate. But I am a big fan of Fisher's stability. Moreso than whatever creativity he might or might not have been forced to display.

Haley was often blasted for his balls (:D), but I thought his bold moves were great. I quite enjoyed watching Haley sack up and go for it.

vidae
12-12-2011, 08:18 PM
I quite rightly am a Chiefs fan. Obviously, I'm a Pats fan first, but have been a Chiefs fan for a good 18 years, which is longer than most of you clowns have been alive. It was perfect when I moved to KC ~7 years ago to have a local team that I was already a fan of.

It's not everyone that doesn't get it, just a bunch of highly vocal knuckleheads (talking about local media, which really has rubbed off on some fans I run into) that like to overanalyze certain things that don't even matter and ignore/forget/not even realize other, more important aspects of what's going on with the team.

But I'm trolling because I have a different (and more accurate) perspective on the team...

Whatever, let's get back on topic...


I've been a Chiefs fan since I was 4 years old and I guarantee you that I'm a bit older than you, but okay.

And there it is again, nepg claiming he is correct while other Chiefs fans are wrong. Didn't I call that?

Raiderz4Life
12-12-2011, 09:22 PM
It really is hard to come off as not trolling when defending Cassel and McD.

Their performances speak pretty loudly and trying to go against the grain has to be trolling.

descendency
12-12-2011, 09:39 PM
Mangini may have ran players off at times, but his players played hard for him.

McDaniels got rid of Brandon Marshall [who is a nutcase], Jay Cutler [who has been paper thin], and some other very over-rated players. He's responsible for some of the greatest passing seasons of all time, when you consider who his QBs have been.

I think McDaniels will have learned something about his first coaching experience, like a lot of coaches do.

OzTitan
12-12-2011, 09:43 PM
I respect your opinion 100%, but maybe you're a bit biased? It happens that way.. if a player or coach is fired from a team, the fans of that team usually talk them down.

I'm not saying you're wrong, just that maybe you're a bit biased.

Perhaps, but I was just as perplexed as to why Fisher had such a high opinion league wide from about 2005 or so onwards, while he was HC. I mean I get that the guy is a respected figure in the NFL and I'll say one thing - he knew the game and its rules inside out. Fisher rarely if ever did a bad challenge and he knew how to manage time. But he was also afforded 16 years to master this in a static environment with apparently low expectations from above. He was somewhat insulated, notexisting in what I would call a "real" NFL environment - what, with friends up top and an owner who really, really wanted him to be the guy, kinda like he did with Vince Young, despite no logical signs suggesting he really was going to be the guy. Bud couldn't even muster up the courage to fire the guy - there was too much respect between Fisher and the Titans, and honestly, what did he do to deserve it? Apparently Steve McNair never earnt it. It was a very, very unhealthy HC to Team relationship.

I just don't know how he'll go in a real environment where he isn't the small town media darling, where he isn't treated like a special boy by the owner. Hell, he may very well flourish - all I know is he was painfully predictable and stale as the Titans HC well before he left, and he'll need to change big time.

vidae
12-12-2011, 09:49 PM
Fair enough duder. You know a lot more about Jeff Fisher than I do.. all that said, I'd still easily take him over McDaniels! :D

nepg
12-13-2011, 11:20 AM
I've been a Chiefs fan since I was 4 years old and I guarantee you that I'm a bit older than you, but okay.

And there it is again, nepg claiming he is correct while other Chiefs fans are wrong. Didn't I call that?
I said "most of you, not ' you'".

and I know our didn't come off as such, but "clowns" was meant as a term is investment moreso than am insult.



It's getting really annoying dealing with local fans who have such narrow perspectives about the coaching situation in KC.

The ******** local media is all "we have to get a big name or else!" Stupid.

Fisher might be OK even though I think he's completely burnt out. But Cowhet? Gruden? Billick? No way.

Thecollegedropout
12-14-2011, 12:45 AM
I think Mangini would be a good hire. I'm a big supporter of his and I've said on here before I think he really got screwed his last two jobs.
I do like Mangini and think he would be a good grab by the Chiefs but the 2 things that killed Mangini in both CLE and NYJ were...

1) Inability to develop a QB. Kellen Clemens did not develop properly for Mangini/Schottenheimer which led to Favre trying to save Eric's job. His handling of Quinn/Anderson was ugly in year 1 and Delhomme/McCoy were real hit or miss in year 2.

2) Too much trust in incompetent coordinators. Whether it was his trust in Bob "Prevent D" Sutton who was well over his head as defensive coordinator or the joke that's Brian Schottenheimer who was awful in 2008 or relying on Brian DaBoll as the offensive playcaller, his coordinators failed him mightily.

Mangini helped establish a good core for Rex Ryan to take over but Rex is a superior defensive mind and was more well liked by his players than Mangini(Who the players liked but not like how they do with Rex).

Mangini would have still had a job with the Jets if MR. T had his way but it was Woody Johnson's call as Mangini showed no emotion or an ability to fire the team up when that December collapse took place.

With Mangini you get solid drafts, respectable if not good defensive squads, improving game management and a professional coach. However he has yet to work or develop a QB, relies too much on awful coordinators, and is not a guy who will show much emotion on the field(Take that for what it is worth).

MI_Buckeye
12-14-2011, 01:28 AM
I've only read the first two pages of this thread, but to all throwing around McD; If Todd Haley lost his job, in part, because he was a huge prick, why on Earth would you replace him with the biggest egomaniac in the NFL?

TonyGfortheTD
12-14-2011, 03:29 AM
The ******** local media is all "we have to get a big name or else!" Stupid.

Fisher might be OK even though I think he's completely burnt out. But Cowhet? Gruden? Billick? No way.

lol you've got a lot to learn about the KC media. They are the worst.

This is the same group that asked multiple times, "Don't you think firing Haley this close to Christmas is harsh???" Yeah, poor dude will have to continue cashing checks and spend more time with his family.

Bengalsrocket
12-14-2011, 06:54 AM
lol you've got a lot to learn about the KC media. They are the worst.

This is the same group that asked multiple times, "Don't you think firing Haley this close to Christmas is harsh???" Yeah, poor dude will have to continue cashing checks and spend more time with his family.

Are you aware how embarrassing it is to be fired for most people? Spending time with his family is probably the last thing he wants to do at this point :P

BeerBaron
12-14-2011, 08:22 AM
Yeah, I hate it when people (the media) don't want to discuss firings because it's someone losing their job.

It's not like you or I getting fired. I'd have to go home to an apartment I wouldn't be able to pay rent on and student loans I couldn't pay would pile up and I wouldn't be able to buy food....that's life ruining right there.

Firing a high level pro or college head coach is more like electing them out of office. They get paid a **** ton of money while they're in a prestigious position. And then they have so many other options....go back to being an assistance coach, join the media, fall back on whatever career they went to school for in the first place, etc.

So I don't feel bad or guilty when one gets canned. If he actually does go home and can't support his family, well then he's dumb for not managing his hundred of thousands or millions of dollars more responsibly.

I mean ****, your average person could live modestly, or possibly even fairly well for 10 years on what your average coach makes in one.

I feel no pain for them.

jrdrylie
12-14-2011, 08:40 AM
I mean ****, your average person could live modestly, or possibly even fairly well for 10 years on what your average coach makes in one.


I think you are underestimating how much NFL coaches make. The average head coach is paid $3.75 million a year. You could live modestly on that for 40or 50 years.

BeerBaron
12-14-2011, 08:43 AM
I think you are underestimating how much NFL coaches make. The average head coach is paid $3.75 million a year. You could live modestly on that for 40or 50 years.

I was including college head coaches too which I figured would bring down the overall average. (For every Nick Saban, someone has to scrape by a Akron? Right?)

But yeah, **** tons of money are paid out to these guys and when they do get fired, they have far better options than 99.9% of everyone else.

I mean for ***** sake, Matt ******* Millen got another media job after being the worst exec in the history of sports.

jrdrylie
12-14-2011, 09:21 AM
I was including college head coaches too which I figured would bring down the overall average. (For every Nick Saban, someone has to scrape by a Akron? Right?)

But yeah, **** tons of money are paid out to these guys and when they do get fired, they have far better options than 99.9% of everyone else.

I mean for ***** sake, Matt ******* Millen got another media job after being the worst exec in the history of sports.

Gotcha. Still, the average salary of a head coach in FBS is still $1.36 million. Those guys have been making that much money for a few years and then will likely have a buyout when fired. I definitely shed no tears for them.

Splat
12-14-2011, 09:47 AM
I would not mind Romeo Crennel taking over full time as long as they get a decent OC and DC.

vidae
12-14-2011, 10:50 AM
I wouldn't hate Crennel as the HC, I just wouldn't love it.

TheMatriculator
12-14-2011, 11:14 AM
Actually I rather like the idea of Romeo being named the permanent HC. I have always believed that one of Scott Pioli's core values is maintaining continuity between coaching staff and front office. He values having everyone on the same page and rowing in the same direction. I think Romeo can provide this.

Next job is hiring the best possible OC and a competent DC but I think Romeo has a good reputation in the league as someone who is easy to work with so that becomes a lot easier than hiring an OC to work with Haley.

I do have one concern about Romeo. I hope he isn't too easygoing.


BTW...nepg, I read your spoiler and, for the record, I have been a Chiefs fan since the club came to KC (yes, I'm that old). Just because I'm relatively new to this board doesn't mean that I'm new to the earth.

nepg
12-14-2011, 11:17 AM
If Spags & his staff are cleaned out, I'd be pretty happy with RAC running the show with McD running the offense. I just don't think Romeo has a great passion for anything but running the defense.

vidae
12-14-2011, 11:35 AM
McDaniels should not run anything. The offense in St. Louis is absolute garbage.

Sure, they don't have a ton of playmakers, but when your offense is worse than ours, the OC shouldn't sniff a job. And we might as well trade Jamaal Charles with the way he completely disregards the running game.

And the worst knock on McDaniels is that we'd have to stick with Cassel and he's ******* awful. No thanks.

DraftSavant
12-14-2011, 11:38 AM
I love you vidae, but why is this thread 6 pages long?

nepg
12-14-2011, 11:42 AM
BTW...nepg, I read your spoiler and, for the record, I have been a Chiefs fan since the club came to KC (yes, I'm that old). Just because I'm relatively new to this board doesn't mean that I'm new to the earth.

Again, that wasn't directed at anyone in particular, or even Chiefs fans. Out was a broad statement comparing my longevity as a Chiefs fan to the ages of rest if the board. Because done people think that I'm only a fan because of Pioli coming here and because I livre in KCMO.

nepg
12-14-2011, 11:44 AM
McDaniels should not run anything. The offense in St. Louis is absolute garbage.

Sure, they don't have a ton of playmakers, but when your offense is worse than ours, the OC shouldn't sniff a job. And we might as well trade Jamaal Charles with the way he completely disregards the running game.

And the worst knock on McDaniels is that we'd have to stick with Cassel and he's ******* awful. No thanks.
Jackson has gotten plenty if carries. McD runs a fairly balanced offense contrary to perception. Certainly, he likes to throw the ball, but we're not talking about Andy Reid here.

Raiderz4Life
12-14-2011, 11:51 AM
Still can't truly comprehend how someone can defend McDaniels.

nepg
12-14-2011, 12:01 PM
Still can't truly comprehend how someone can defend McDaniels.
With facts and statistics. Pretty easy.

TheMatriculator
12-14-2011, 12:09 PM
I love you vidae, but why is this thread 6 pages long?

Because (A) we care about our team and (B) what else are we going to do (in KC) go the beach? Wait for a Royals winning season?

As for McD, I think he'd make a great QB coach.

vidae
12-14-2011, 12:21 PM
With facts and statistics. Pretty easy.

Here are some juicy McDaniels stats for you:

11.8 points a game, 32nd in the NFL and 4th worst all-time for the Rams franchise, 30th in yards per game with 238.8, 24th in passing yards per game with 184.0, and ranked 26th in running offense at 99.8 yards per game.

Holy crap on a cracker, where do I sign up for this offensive GENIUS?

BeerBaron
12-14-2011, 12:29 PM
Here are some juicy McDaniels stats for you:

11.8 points a game, 32nd in the NFL and 4th worst all-time for the Rams franchise, 30th in yards per game with 238.8, 24th in passing yards per game with 184.0, and ranked 26th in running offense at 99.8 yards per game.

Holy crap on a cracker, where do I sign up for this offensive GENIUS?

Lacks weapons. Weapons weapons weapons. Needs more weapons. Rams don't have any weapons. Weapons. Some more weapons.

BeerBaron
12-14-2011, 12:31 PM
if only he had one of the best offenses in the nfl and free reign to run up the score everywhere he coached, he might actually be decent.

I think I know what it is. He's just not used to having a RB who can actually accelerate through holes.

Are there any Slowshon 2.0 type backs available this year? The Chiefs can draft one of those after they hire him and then trade Charles because **** good offensive players, they don't fit his system!

Vox Populi
12-14-2011, 12:33 PM
I'm not buying the injury excuse for why Haley should have been allowed to not have a winning season this year. The Texans manage to keep winning games with injuries to Foster, Schaub, Leinart, Mario and Andre. Right now they're playing with a third string QB, without their top receiver and their best defensive player.

The Chiefs still have good healthy players like Flowers, Hali, Bowe, Johnson, etc. I don't think you can justify losing as many games in blowout fashion solely on injuries.

I'm interested in seeing what happens in KC in the offseason, because if the next coach can't turn things around in a hurry and at least keep the Chiefs competitive in the bulk of their games and get to at least around .500, a lot of pressure is come down on Pioli's management and Patriot influenced approach. If I were the Chiefs, I'd probably hire Mangini for cheap and try to make him work with Crenell, and even if that didn't work out, the defense wouldn't change up very much. You shouldn't need to find a genius to call plays for the Chiefs on offense as long as the running game is working and you can run a lot of the passing game through the backs as well.

One criticism I have of the Chiefs offensive management is that they really had mismatched parts. Haley wanted to do a lot of attacking down field with Bowe, and that didn't match Cassel's skill set at all. Neither Cassel or Orton are very good at attacking a defense down the field, and both Bowe and Baldwin excel in that area, and Bowe hasn't really been used effectively in the short-intermediate passing game for a guy with his size and strength. If the Chiefs want to go in an offensive direction, they need to find someone who runs an offense that runs a lot more like New England's and Buffalo's unless they dump Cassel and get someone who can make more plays down the field.

BeerBaron
12-14-2011, 12:42 PM
they can have ours! though it doesn't really matter. he'll run his tight-end-screen-based offense through non-pass-catching tight ends who are generally too slow to be effective anyways. i'm sure orton/cassel's stats will look great with all the garbage time passing, though.

Oh jeez...Orton and Cassel. That's a McD wet dream right there. He'll find a way for BOTH guys to throw for 4000 while the team goes 2-14.

nepg
12-14-2011, 01:02 PM
One criticism I have of the Chiefs offensive management is that they really had mismatched parts. Haley wanted to do a lot of attacking down field with Bowe, and that didn't match Cassel's skill set at all. Neither Cassel or Orton are very good at attacking a defense down the field, and both Bowe and Baldwin excel in that area, and Bowe hasn't really been used effectively in the short-intermediate passing game for a guy with his size and strength. If the Chiefs want to go in an offensive direction, they need to find someone who runs an offense that runs a lot more like New England's and Buffalo's unless they dump Cassel and get someone who can make more plays down the field.

They didn't have mismatched parts, they just didn't have all the parts. Getting Baldwin was huge, so was Cassel and Breaston growing together.

Cassel actually does really well throwing downfield, but there were a couple problems. They didn't have a TE to keep safeties honest like they did in 2010, and by the time they got Breaston and Baldwin going, the OL had completely fallen apart, they were too thin at TE to help the OL much, and the only RB that can pass block is Jones.

So they had those things going on while the real issue with the team couldn't find a fix... The offensive coaching, scheming, playcalling, and design were all horribly handled. That is why Haley got fired. Inability to manage a coaching staff.

LonghornsLegend
12-19-2011, 12:45 PM
This whole situation seems a bit odd though. He won the division last year, and yet here they are this year still mathematically in the running for AFCW champs with 2 games to play and he was fired.


I'm not trying to defend the guy, but it's not like he did a terrible job. It's obvious the relationship was not working because most coaches get a longer leash then this.

vidae
12-19-2011, 12:53 PM
Nick Wright of 610 here in KC reported that there was a rift between Haley and Pioli. No one believed him because Nick Wright is a giant douchebag who is very rarely right in anything he reports. It appears, that this time, he was right.

T-RICH49
12-19-2011, 02:14 PM
Nick Wright of 610 here in KC reported that there was a rift between Haley and Pioli. No one believed him because Nick Wright is a giant douchebag who is very rarely right in anything he reports. It appears, that this time, he was right.

he also said on twitter that Haley and Bowe had a major blowup.According to Wright Haley said something to Bowe that infuriated Bowe and the rest of the players.

Splat
12-22-2011, 06:15 PM
Tamba Hali: Chiefs want Romeo Crennel as their coach next year (http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/12/22/tamba-hali-chiefs-want-romeo-crennel-as-their-coach-next-year/)

So do I.