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View Full Version : Tom Brady sucks?


SimonRath
12-13-2011, 09:15 AM
I was eating at Taco Mac last night and one of my friends was trying to tell me that Tom Brady is only good because of the system he is in and if he went to any other team he would be terrible. How dumb is my friend on a scale from 1-10?

Matthew Jones
12-13-2011, 09:19 AM
I'd say about an 11

Shane P. Hallam
12-13-2011, 09:22 AM
and how many other teams have tried to put in this system and failed?

AntoinCD
12-13-2011, 09:29 AM
I was eating at Taco Mac last night and one of my friends was trying to tell me that Tom Brady is only good because of the system he is in and if he went to any other team he would be terrible. How dumb is my friend on a scale from 1-10?

About 400.

Tom Brady played extremely well and won 3 Superbowls in Charlie Weis' offensive system.

He broke all kinds of records playing in Josh McDaniels' spread type system.

He had his best ever year last year playing in Bill O'Brien's system.

The last few years the Patriots have played in a very advanced offense. Without a vertical type threat it is based almost completely on horizontal route patterns where Brady needs to read the coverage correctly and place the ball where only his WRs can make the play. He also needs to be on the same page as his WRs and TEs because they use option routes based on coverages.

In 2007 it was so much easier under McDaniels' system. Randy Moss blew the top off defensive coverages and generally took at least two defenders with him. Anytime Moss was single covered the ball was going his way. Any time Moss had a distinct advantage(either height or speed) on DBs the ball was going his way. Whenever Moss wasn't the main target then he looked for Welker underneath running drags and whip routes. If Moss and Welker were covered then it generally meant that someone like Kevin Faulk would be in a mismatch and he went there. This is part of the reason why they got rid of Moss. No one could completely cover Moss so Brady became dependant on him.

What he has done the last two years has been simply phenomenal. The Pats can spread the field width wise but they can't force teams to drop a safety 20/25 yards deep. They don't have any outside WRs who can make teams pay for one on one coverage. They aren't effective running the ball.

Brady has been lucky the last few years in the fact that Welker is such a good fit in the offense and he now has two TEs(particularly Gronk) who are extremely difficult to cover. But it's not like the Patriots have some amazing schematic concepts that ensure someone gets open. Brady is so good because he is great at reading coverages and is incredibly accurate on intermediate throws. He has never been a great deep ball thrower but Moss gave him a larger margin for error. No team can win by constantly throwing screens and short throws. But there is probably no QB better than Brady on throws up to 20 yards, particularly in the middle of the field.

SimonRath
12-13-2011, 09:29 AM
His argument was Cassel looked great in this system but then sucked with the chiefs.

Paul
12-13-2011, 09:34 AM
He sucks super model's titties, that's what he sucks.

jrdrylie
12-13-2011, 09:49 AM
His argument was Cassel looked great in this system but then sucked with the chiefs.

Matt Cassel looked good in the system, not great. 21 TDs and 11 INTs isn't Pro Bowl play. It is decent, above average play. Your friend is an idiot. Systems can make a QB look good. But eventually, NFL defenses figure the system out. That is when you can tell who the good players are.

killxswitch
12-13-2011, 09:50 AM
I think Brady got too much credit for the SB wins early in his career, but somewhere in the 05-06 range he ascended to the elite QB ranks and isn't going anywhere. I mean yeah, I hate the guy and he sucks and I'm a Colts fan and Manning is better and blah blah blah, but really. I don't even know why this is a discussion. He is an excellent QB and a very rare talent.

If it's just the system (as someone said earlier, there've been multiple systems at this point), why aren't other teams copying the system? Probably because they can't because not many can run it as effectively as Brady.

Ok I need to be done. Too much Brady praise.

http://coedmagazine.files.wordpress.com/2011/03/tom-brady-dance-1.gif

AntoinCD
12-13-2011, 10:03 AM
I think Brady got too much credit for the SB wins early in his career, but somewhere in the 05-06 range he ascended to the elite QB ranks and isn't going anywhere. I mean yeah, I hate the guy and he sucks and I'm a Colts fan and Manning is better and blah blah blah, but really. I don't even know why this is a discussion. He is an excellent QB and a very rare talent.

If it's just the system (as someone said earlier, there've been multiple systems at this point), why aren't other teams copying the system? Probably because they can't because not many can run it as effectively as Brady.

Ok I need to be done. Too much Brady praise.

http://coedmagazine.files.wordpress.com/2011/03/tom-brady-dance-1.gif

Eh, as a Pats fan who has been involved in many of these Brady vs Manning debates I would just like to say that Brady has over 4000 yards and 33 TDs more than Manning this year. What more proof do you need??? ;)

killxswitch
12-13-2011, 10:04 AM
Eh, as a Pats fan who has been involved in many of these Brady vs Manning debates I would just like to say that Brady has over 4000 yards and 33 TDs more than Manning this year. What more proof do you need??? ;)

I wish I could reach through the internet and punch you in the wiener.

nepg
12-13-2011, 11:28 AM
And Pats fans love *** Troll Brady media. The guy is amazing at trolling. Possibly the best ever. Water slide? gg

abaddon41_80
12-13-2011, 11:31 AM
I think the most important question this topic brings up is what the hell is Taco Mac?

jrdrylie
12-13-2011, 11:37 AM
And Pats fans love *** Troll Brady media. The guy is amazing at trolling. Possibly the best ever. Water slide? gg

http://cdn.fd.uproxx.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/Tom-Brady-waterslide.jpg

Jvig43
12-13-2011, 11:55 AM
Thread worthy.

descendency
12-13-2011, 12:27 PM
If the system were all that it took to have a hall of fame QB, why doesn't everyone use it?

soybean
12-13-2011, 12:33 PM
I don't think it's as simple as some people think though. Obviously Tom Brady is an amazing talent and quite possibly the best qb to have ever played the game. But also, you can't deny Belichek had a great impact on his learning or progression.

you can extrapolate that to every team though, and how great quarterbacks can attribute a lot of their greatness to their coach and some great qbs never become great because of the team and coach they play for.

jrdrylie
12-13-2011, 12:42 PM
I don't think it's as simple as some people think though. Obviously Tom Brady is an amazing talent and quite possibly the best qb to have ever played the game. But also, you can't deny Belichek had a great impact on his learning or progression.

you can extrapolate that to every team though, and how great quarterbacks can attribute a lot of their greatness to their coach and some great qbs never become great because of the team and coach they play for.

Brady would have been great if Tony Sparano, Cam Cameron, or Josh McDaniels had been his head coach. QBs make coaches, not the other way around.

Shane P. Hallam
12-13-2011, 12:50 PM
Brady would have been great if Tony Sparano, Cam Cameron, or Josh McDaniels had been his head coach. QBs make coaches, not the other way around.

Why can't it be a joint effort?

Jvig43
12-13-2011, 12:51 PM
Why can't it be a joint effort?

Agreed, neither would have the same success without the other. Thats not to say they wouldn't have alot of success, but it certainly wouldn't be what they've accomplished with each other.

jrdrylie
12-13-2011, 01:16 PM
Why can't it be a joint effort?

Agreed, neither would have the same success without the other. Thats not to say they wouldn't have alot of success, but it certainly wouldn't be what they've accomplished with each other.

Neither would have been as successful without the other. True. But the QB is vastly more important. Great QBs can overcome terrible coaching. Great coaches can't overcome terrible quarterbacking.

AntoinCD
12-13-2011, 01:51 PM
Neither would have been as successful without the other. True. But the QB is vastly more important. Great QBs can overcome terrible coaching. Great coaches can't overcome terrible quarterbacking.

The Chargers haven't won a lot recently and I think we can all agree that Philip Rivers is pretty damn good.

Rosebud
12-13-2011, 03:56 PM
Over 9000. You're friend is an absolute moron.

Sloopy
12-13-2011, 04:13 PM
I need more information... what did he eat at Taco Mac before I make my decision?

Jvig43
12-13-2011, 04:16 PM
I need more information... what did he eat at Taco Mac before I make my decision?

If it wasn't at least fifteen hits of acid it doesn't matter haha.

descendency
12-13-2011, 10:17 PM
Brady would have been great if Tony Sparano, Cam Cameron, or Josh McDaniels had been his head coach. QBs make coaches, not the other way around.

The thing is, that throughout Tom Brady's career, Bill Belichick has never had to ask too much of him. The defense allowed Brady to develop and after that, Brady took off offensive, the defense was changed to a style that better fit high scoring offenses.

You can't sit back and play man defense trying to stop every yard while the offense is putting up 500+ yards per game.

armageddon
12-14-2011, 05:54 PM
Put Brady on the current Rams team and let's see how great he is, lol.

DraftSavant
12-14-2011, 06:05 PM
And Pats fans love *** Troll Brady media. The guy is amazing at trolling. Possibly the best ever. Water slide? gg

I ******* APPROVE THE **** OUT OF THIS POST.

Sloopy
12-14-2011, 07:02 PM
This thread needs more Breed... maybe a little PFF from JBCX

Brodeur
12-14-2011, 07:11 PM
Over 9000. You're friend is an absolute moron.

http://img132.imageshack.us/img132/1106/brendin.gif

fenikz
12-14-2011, 07:14 PM
http://cdn.ksk.uproxx.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/lol-manning-troll.jpg

BeerBaron
12-14-2011, 07:43 PM
All Brady needs to do is flash his 3 rings and ask how Bill Polian is doing. Is he scouting any more tiny defenders? Or how about slow RBs lacking explosion? Or how about some finesse receivers?

Then flip Peyton the bird.

robert pancake gallery
12-14-2011, 08:31 PM
I ******* APPROVE THE **** OUT OF THIS POST.

http://cdn.ksk.uproxx.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/tom-brady-scooter.jpg

nepg
12-14-2011, 09:25 PM
Brady would have been great if Tony Sparano, Cam Cameron, or Josh McDaniels had been his head coach. QBs make coaches, not the other way around.
Actually, it's pretty well documented that Tom Martinez (and hard ******* work) made Tom Brady. And it isn't even a debate. In New England, he got put in a great situation behind one of the best QBs of the 90's and an amazing coaching staff that gave him the opportunity he needed, but everything else was Martinez & Brady.

More importantly...

While I absolutely love Razor Scooter Brady, I just don't see it topping Water Slide Brady.

Jvig43
12-15-2011, 08:33 AM
but then he'd just see vinatieri behind peyton, smirking.

I expect better from you.

BeerBaron
12-15-2011, 08:34 AM
Vinatieri would have just been "some kicker" with Brady actually getting him into FG range.

killxswitch
12-15-2011, 08:36 AM
Vinatieri would have just been "some kicker" with Brady actually getting him into FG range.

Brady would've just been the guy that filled in for Bledsoe if Belichick hadn't been illegally taping other teams.

BOOM.

BeerBaron
12-15-2011, 08:38 AM
Brady would've just been the guy that filled in for Bledsoe if Belichick hadn't been illegally taping other teams.

BOOM.

He misinterpreted the rules!

rnqQhUdXgvI

And, well, at least he never pumped in crowd noise...

jrdrylie
12-15-2011, 08:57 AM
http://thecovertwo.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2011/02/tom-brady-goat1.jpg

killxswitch
12-15-2011, 10:17 AM
http://i.imgur.com/WVaPy.jpg

Nalej
12-15-2011, 10:32 AM
but i thought vinatieri was the clutchest/greatest kicker of all time until he left new england!

You make me smile.

Brothgar
12-15-2011, 10:52 AM
All great QBs sans Peyton had great head coaches. All through my life time iconic QBs had iconic coaches. Montana, Young both had Bill Walsh Elway had Shanahan. Brady, Darth hoodie. Mario Shula. Troy, Johnson. It is obviously a joint effort. The right coach with the right scheme for the right QB.

DraftSavant
12-15-2011, 11:01 AM
http://cdn.ksk.uproxx.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/tom-brady-coconut.jpg

http://cdn.ksk.uproxx.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/tom-brady-supertroll.jpg

BeerBaron
12-15-2011, 11:04 AM
Brady is a millionaire future HoF QB with a supermodel wife. He can do whatever the **** he wants. I would too.

DraftSavant
12-15-2011, 11:08 AM
Brady is a millionaire future HoF QB with a supermodel wife. He can do whatever the **** he wants. I would too.

Agree 10000000%

Jvig43
12-15-2011, 11:24 AM
Brady would've just been the guy that filled in for Bledsoe if Belichick hadn't been illegally taping other teams.

BOOM.

Hey.




Shut up.

jrdrylie
12-15-2011, 11:35 AM
All great QBs sans Peyton had great head coaches. All through my life time iconic QBs had iconic coaches. Montana, Young both had Bill Walsh Elway had Shanahan. Brady, Darth hoodie. Mario Shula. Troy, Johnson. It is obviously a joint effort. The right coach with the right scheme for the right QB.

Have any great coaches not had great QBs?

Also this...

http://www.sportsgrid.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/227190130-e1295391218552.jpg

Brothgar
12-15-2011, 11:44 AM
Have any great coaches not had great QBs?

Also this...


Well that seems to be the thing people rank QBs and head coaches the same way winning. Right or wrong if the team wins the QB is great and so is the head coach. When the pair is winning together they rarely if ever separate.