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boknows34
12-13-2011, 10:10 AM
For One Game.

http://nflcommunications.com/2011/12/13/harrison-suspended-for-one-game-for-fifth-illegal-hit-against-a-quarterback-in-three-seasons/

terribletowel39
12-13-2011, 10:12 AM
Horse hockey. So lame.

Trogdor
12-13-2011, 10:13 AM
In before Steeler's fans complaining. Holy crap terribletowel39 that was fast.

He thoroughly earned it. Maybe actually missing a game will force him to learn how to tackle correctly rather than just aiming the crown of his helmet at people.

TACKLE
12-13-2011, 10:14 AM
I know Harrison is a repeat "offender" but it's a very slippery slope they're on.

killxswitch
12-13-2011, 10:14 AM
If he doesn't like it then he should stop being a head butting butt head.

K Train
12-13-2011, 10:16 AM
:-( ........(10 chars)

terribletowel39
12-13-2011, 10:18 AM
McCoy was a runner. Same rules shouldn't apply. That is what I am calling lame. It is dumb that the QB loses some of the rules but not all of them. People hit running backs with their helmets all the time. He was a runner at that point.

K Train
12-13-2011, 10:21 AM
i mean harrison destroyed him, but harrison is gigantic and mccoy is a little guy than was running towards him. Not saying hes not a mildly dirty player, but its a dirty world and a dirty game. not surprised, but i do hate it

Trogdor
12-13-2011, 10:23 AM
McCoy was a runner. Same rules shouldn't apply. That is what I am calling lame. It is dumb that the QB loses some of the rules but not all of them. People hit running backs with their helmets all the time. He was a runner at that point.

No. It was an illegal hit regardless. He led with the crown of his helmet into the head of an opponent. Watch the replay. Harrison has his face-mask level looking at McCoy when he flips the ball. Harrison lowers his head leading with the crown of his helmet. He does it repeatedly and it's never been legal.

Rule 12, Section 2, Article 8 (Unnecessary roughness) in the NFL rulebook

(f) If a player uses any part of his helmet (including the top/crown and forehead/”hairline” parts) or facemask to butt, spear, or ram an opponent violently or unnecessarily.


Even if you remove the fact he hit a QB it is still ANOTHER instance of him using the "crown" of his helmet as a weapon. If he simply form tackles or hell uses his shoulder first he avoids not only the penalty but the fines and suspensions that go with it.

I'm really surprised the Steeler's coaching staff hasn't taught him to avoid the fine. Then again his lack of intelligence is unquestioned.

AntoinCD
12-13-2011, 10:23 AM
i mean harrison destroyed him, but harrison is gigantic and mccoy is a little guy than was running towards him. Not saying hes not a mildly dirty player, but its a dirty world and a dirty game. not surprised, but i do hate it

I'm not one to exaggerate much but that is the biggest understatement of all time!!

MetSox17
12-13-2011, 10:27 AM
No. It was an illegal hit regardless. He led with the crown of his helmet into the head of an opponent. Watch the replay. Harrison has his face-mask level looking at McCoy when he flips the ball. Harrison lowers his head leading with the crown of his helmet. He does it repeatedly and it's never been legal.

Rule 12, Section 2, Article 8 (Unnecessary roughness) in the NFL rulebook

(f) If a player uses any part of his helmet (including the top/crown and forehead/”hairline” parts) or facemask to butt, spear, or ram an opponent violently or unnecessarily.


Even if you remove the fact he hit a QB it is still ANOTHER instance of him using the "crown" of his helmet as a weapon. If he simply form tackles or hell uses his shoulder first he avoids not only the penalty but the fines and suspensions that go with it.

I'm really surprised the Steeler's coaching staff hasn't taught him to avoid the fine. Then again his lack of intelligence is unquestioned.

This, x100. I'm tired of hearing the "he was a runner!!" defense.

K Train
12-13-2011, 10:32 AM
I'm not one to exaggerate much but that is the biggest understatement of all time!!

hes really not THAT bad. he lays crushing blows, theres no doubt about it but its overhyped with him being the poster boy for illegal hits, most of which are just big hits, some are helmet to helmet by rule i suppose....but that rule is not enforced consistently at all, completely up to interpretation (see london fletcher vs tom brady last week, purely brady biased on the call).

im not saying this as a steeler fan, even though it really really sucks to lose him for a game but i hate the direction they take this in...10 years ago thats a highlight hit and now its a fine and suspension. Im not really a player safety advocate, i like big hits just like people watch nascar for accidents. they make enough money to play a childs game, the risk is pretty clear imo. i might be in the minority but my favorite hits are the ones that players come out and pray after. im sure colt mccoy wouldnt care if i got tackled really hard at work (ok that might be a reach lol)

still though, laying someone out and stomping on their head like haynesworth did are different....dirty player is a fine line. it s a violent game, and honestly i wouldnt like it as much if it wasnt

ShutDwn
12-13-2011, 10:32 AM
McCoy was a runner. Same rules shouldn't apply. That is what I am calling lame. It is dumb that the QB loses some of the rules but not all of them. People hit running backs with their helmets all the time. He was a runner at that point.

Players do it, but nobody has a history of it like Harrison. He's one this so many times and been told stop, this would've happened if he did it to any other player.

It doesn't matter if he was running. It will never be legal to square up and spear someone in the face.

FuzzyGopher
12-13-2011, 10:47 AM
It doesn't really matter if he was a runner or not, you can't run around blasting people in the face with the top of your helmet. Safeties and corners get fined for this type off thing all the time for drilling receivers. He deliberately lowered his head and used his helmet as a battering ram instead of doing what they teach you in ankle biter football, keep your head up and your shoulders square. The guy has had plenty of warnings prior to this yet he still doesn't seem to get it. Well deserved in my opinion.

prock
12-13-2011, 10:50 AM
McCoy was a runner. Same rules shouldn't apply. That is what I am calling lame. It is dumb that the QB loses some of the rules but not all of them. People hit running backs with their helmets all the time. He was a runner at that point.

If a quarterback is behind the line of scrimmage, they aren't a runner. The fact of the matter is that he went helmet to helmet on a quarterback after he threw the ball. He obviously wasn't a runner because he threw it, and runners can't throw.

Prowler
12-13-2011, 11:00 AM
I loved the hit and thought Colt McCoy should have gotten down. The concussion was on him because he was a dumbass to take on Harrison. With that being said, the hit was against the rules. I don't really believe in the method that the fines and suspensions are being handed out.

Frankly, I think this personal safety crusade is a "war on drugs" scenario where it will be unevenly enforced and create more confusion and misinformation than actually solve anything. Teach the idiot to slide next time.

prock
12-13-2011, 11:05 AM
I loved the hit and thought Colt McCoy should have gotten down. The concussion was on him because he was a dumbass to take on Harrison. With that being said, the hit was against the rules. I don't really believe in the method that the fines and suspensions are being handed out.

Frankly, I think this personal safety crusade is a "war on drugs" scenario where it will be unevenly enforced and create more confusion and misinformation than actually solve anything. Teach the idiot to slide next time.

Yeah, why would a quarterback stand in and take a hit to deliver a throw for a first down when he can just slide? What an idiot.

You are probably a Blaine Gabbert fan with this mentality.

vidae
12-13-2011, 11:10 AM
James Harrison tweeted "lol!!!!" after he found out about the suspension. Is this dude like five years old?

Prowler
12-13-2011, 11:10 AM
No, I'm a Steelers fan too. McCoy knew what was going to happen. I'm fine with him getting creamed.

K Train
12-13-2011, 11:19 AM
James Harrison tweeted "lol!!!!" after he found out about the suspension. Is this dude like five years old?

thats about his intelligence level....we dont have him around to comprehend reading material though

prock
12-13-2011, 11:20 AM
No, I'm a Steelers fan too. McCoy knew what was going to happen. I'm fine with him getting creamed.

Yeah, he stood in there and took a hit like a quarterback should. But the hit was definitely fine-able and based on his history, suspendable. The dude is just too ******* stupid to play in this league. I literally don't think he could read or comprehend at an 11th grade level.

fear the elf
12-13-2011, 11:30 AM
No, I'm a Steelers fan too. McCoy knew what was going to happen. I'm fine with him getting creamed.

Agreed, he knew Harrison was going to illegally lead with the crown of his helmet into his face. /sarcasm

There's a difference between legally laying him out with a shot to the chest (w/o lowering his head) versus what he did. If he hit him legally, there is no problem; I would actually agree with you.

brat316
12-13-2011, 11:32 AM
It was coming to him. Should have just driven through his chest on the tackle. But even if he kept his head straight and the facemask made contact with the helmet it is still a flag.


Also for those of you who say he lead with the helmet which he did, why didn't Gocong get fined? The goal line stance where he blew up Mendenhall.

K Train
12-13-2011, 11:39 AM
Yeah, he stood in there and took a hit like a quarterback should. But the hit was definitely fine-able and based on his history, suspendable. The dude is just too ******* stupid to play in this league. I literally don't think he could read or comprehend at an 11th grade level.

no one is disputing that, he couldnt even write his name out of kent state....not sure what that has to do with being an outside linebacker though

brat316
12-13-2011, 11:41 AM
Also where was the flag for diving at Ben's knee? The one that lead to the ankle injury.

Sloopy
12-13-2011, 11:46 AM
As a RAVENS fan, I don't agree with this at all... I have my own issues with Harrison... mostly him being a punk *****. However, this is a load of crap

Shane P. Hallam
12-13-2011, 11:47 AM
Oh man, I'm going to rant about this on my podcast on wednesday. It was an illegal hit, should have been flagged and penalized but a suspension is absolutely ridiculous and sets a pretty bad precedent. Someone tell me the last time a player was suspended for a football play between the whistles.

Complex
12-13-2011, 11:48 AM
He shouldn't be suspended.

Prowler
12-13-2011, 11:52 AM
My reaction while watching the game. "Good, knock that dude out and let us take control of the game."

My reaction now. "He should have done it a little cleaner."

I'm tempted to start blaming McCoy's dad for opening his mouth or the Brown's for letting McCoy back into the game. Its hard to judge how much bad publicity can affect a ruling like this. Harrison might have "had it coming" to him without the negative attention to this play. I suspect that the NFLPA will have his back and am wondering if the game ban will stick.

Jvig43
12-13-2011, 11:53 AM
I hate this ******* league.

fear the elf
12-13-2011, 12:00 PM
Also for those of you who say he lead with the helmet which he did, why didn't Gocong get fined? The goal line stance where he blew up Mendenhall.

I don't recall how the contact occurred on all 4 hits. If he lead with the crown, then yeah, he should be fined. But I only remember helmet-to-helmet contact, which is legal on a ball carrier.

Also where was the flag for diving at Ben's knee? The one that lead to the ankle injury.

Again, I don't have access to the video, but I believe he was wrapped up just above the knees. If not, yes, a flag is warranted.

MetSox17
12-13-2011, 12:32 PM
Harrison is the only moron in the league that doesn't understand. I hope he enjoys watching the game from home and losing a game check. **** that guy.

killxswitch
12-13-2011, 12:34 PM
To a certain extent I understand not wanting to change the way you play. Hitting hard is what got Harrison to where he is. But it should not be THAT difficult to change the last 5% of your hitting style and just bury your shoulder in the QB's midsection. You can hit hard without intentionally hitting a player in the head with your helmet.

Hurricanes25
12-13-2011, 12:37 PM
I don't have a problem with the suspension at all. James Harrison just doesn't get it.

prock
12-13-2011, 12:41 PM
no one is disputing that, he couldnt even write his name out of kent state....not sure what that has to do with being an outside linebacker though

Cuz he is too dumb to learn what you can and cannot do.

Oh man, I'm going to rant about this on my podcast on wednesday. It was an illegal hit, should have been flagged and penalized but a suspension is absolutely ridiculous and sets a pretty bad precedent. Someone tell me the last time a player was suspended for a football play between the whistles.

When has someone been as repeatedly penalized and fined for the same **** over and over and over? There hasn't been much precedent for a dangerous thug like Harrison either.

Shane P. Hallam
12-13-2011, 12:45 PM
When has someone been as repeatedly penalized and fined for the same **** over and over and over? There hasn't been much precedent for a dangerous thug like Harrison either.

There is still no rule for it. Brandon Meriweather was in the situation last year, didn't get suspended. Seymour has punched someone in the face during plays for 3 years in a row, only fines. This was Harrison's first personal foul penalty of the year.

There is no rule to suspend players for this. What is it? After so many fines someone is suspended? Does it depend how bad the hit is or what the personal foul is? Like I said, between the whistles, this is unprecedented. If they want to have a definitive rule on situations to suspend, then do it, but it hasn't been done.

Nikolas
12-13-2011, 12:45 PM
At some point, if fines don't work, you have to upgrade to suspensions. Has any other player amassed more fines for illegal hits than Harrison over the last two years? I don't know off the top of my head, but I don't think so.

Personally, I never want to see players get injured, regardless of which team they play for, or how badly I dislike them.

prock
12-13-2011, 12:52 PM
There is still no rule for it. Brandon Meriweather was in the situation last year, didn't get suspended. Seymour has punched someone in the face during plays for 3 years in a row, only fines. This was Harrison's first personal foul penalty of the year.

Neither of those two have as many as Harrison. And no, Seymour's weren't all between the whistles.

Harrison just doesn't get it. You can say it's his first of the year, but what, does every player get one spear to a quarterback's head for free? The dude's got a rap sheet a mile long. They are consistently dangerous hits to the head. Money OBVIOUSLY isn't getting this **** through his head. If fining doesn't work, you need to take the next step. If not, this guy is gonna keep doing it.

What would you suggest Goodell do? Slap another fine down and tell him not to do it again? Worked wonders so far.

Shane P. Hallam
12-13-2011, 01:03 PM
Neither of those two have as many as Harrison. And no, Seymour's weren't all between the whistles.

Harrison just doesn't get it. You can say it's his first of the year, but what, does every player get one spear to a quarterback's head for free? The dude's got a rap sheet a mile long. They are consistently dangerous hits to the head. Money OBVIOUSLY isn't getting this **** through his head. If fining doesn't work, you need to take the next step. If not, this guy is gonna keep doing it.

What would you suggest Goodell do? Slap another fine down and tell him not to do it again? Worked wonders so far.

For now, slap him with a bigger fine as I have already said.

For the future, create an escalating system of fines and suspensions. For drug testing, there are clear guidelines for first offense, second offense, etc. For helmet to helmet hits, there are not. Create a systematic approach so players KNOW where they stand if it happens again.

Jughead10
12-13-2011, 01:07 PM
Oh man, I'm going to rant about this on my podcast on wednesday. It was an illegal hit, should have been flagged and penalized but a suspension is absolutely ridiculous and sets a pretty bad precedent. Someone tell me the last time a player was suspended for a football play between the whistles.

I can't think of any either, but then again I also can't think of anyone else with such blatant disregard of the rules over a fairly short period of time.

prock
12-13-2011, 01:08 PM
For now, slap him with a bigger fine as I have already said.

For the future, create an escalating system of fines and suspensions. For drug testing, there are clear guidelines for first offense, second offense, etc. For helmet to helmet hits, there are not. Create a systematic approach so players KNOW where they stand if it happens again.

So Harrison should get away with it because they never had a set in stone system? I'm pretty sure Harrison knows (well at least the people around him, because he has proven to know very little) that he is walking a fine line. Why would it make a difference anyway? "I won't get suspended if I get one more helmet to helmet, only fined $30000, so I can get one this game. But the next game I gotta be more careful." The dude just doesn't get it. Fines weren't working, more strict measures needed to be taken.

A Perfect Score
12-13-2011, 01:14 PM
I've long maintained Harrison is overrated as a player and that he is indeed a very dirty one, but I kind of agree that this is a very slippery slope the NFL is headed down. I think the only way this sort of thing could be implemented, where we're seeing suspensions handed down for hits like this, is if the player is a huge repeat offender. Otherwise, you're going to be dealing with some very disgruntled players and even more disgruntled fans. The physicality of the game is fast vanishing in favor of offensive systems and shootouts, if you start penalizing guys for the vicious hits that so many of us love you're going to lose alot of general appeal. If I wanted to watch a game made for girls, I'd watch baseball.

K Train
12-13-2011, 01:20 PM
overrated? get that noise out of here...the dude is a monster against the run, a turn over machine, and a great pass rusher....could play all 4 spots in a 34 defense...ill give you dirty, but overrate hes not at all...easily a top 3 OLB

FuzzyGopher
12-13-2011, 01:21 PM
It isn't like he was randomly suspended for a first offense. The guy is a repeat offender with an infamous history of those types of hits. With all the attention and new studies coming out surrounding head injuries it appears the league is taking a no nonsense approach in an effort to limit their occurrence. This isn't 1992, there is more awareness and information coming out all the time about the long term consequences of head trauma and it appears the league is attempting to set a new standard to discourage superfluous hits.

Shane P. Hallam
12-13-2011, 01:24 PM
So Harrison should get away with it because they never had a set in stone system?

You act like there is a "fine line" with getting away with it. It's pretty obvious that even this suspension isn't curbing Harrison by his reaction. It is a vacation week for him, is THAT the best way to stop this since obviously you don't think ANY amount of money as a fine is enough.

My major issue is just the precedent this sets that if a player gets a personal foul, they can now be suspended, plain and simple. With no rule saying it HAS to be a "repeat offender," or anything like that, what is stopping the NFL now? That is the issue (and a possible issue with the CBA where the Steelers were the only team of players to vote no on the new CBA). You want to put a structure in place? Be my guest. Why couldn't Goodell have anticipated this and created a guideline? Why hasn't he now? Why won't he? That's my question and until that is there, I don't support a suspension of a player for making some type of football play between the whistles, illegal or not.

Heck, Cortland Finnegan/Andre Johnson, not suspended for throwing punches at each other's faces last year. Not saying they should have been, but if that is merely fineable (and Finnegan had been fined in the past,) this is too even with the history. If you want to up the fine (as the precedent has been set and the letter of the law has been,) then go for it or change the rule itself.

Prowler
12-13-2011, 01:27 PM
Murderers get away with killing people due to legal loop holes all the time. It takes a whole 2 hours to think about a subject and then make some notes. Then he could have compared the notes with a few people and made a couple rules governing this situation. All Goodell has to do is take the time to do it right. This whole Zeus randomly throwing lightning bolts thing is what upsets people.

prock
12-13-2011, 01:42 PM
You act like there is a "fine line" with getting away with it. It's pretty obvious that even this suspension isn't curbing Harrison by his reaction. It is a vacation week for him, is THAT the best way to stop this since obviously you don't think ANY amount of money as a fine is enough.

My major issue is just the precedent this sets that if a player gets a personal foul, they can now be suspended, plain and simple. With no rule saying it HAS to be a "repeat offender," or anything like that, what is stopping the NFL now? That is the issue (and a possible issue with the CBA where the Steelers were the only team of players to vote no on the new CBA). You want to put a structure in place? Be my guest. Why couldn't Goodell have anticipated this and created a guideline? Why hasn't he now? Why won't he? That's my question and until that is there, I don't support a suspension of a player for making some type of football play between the whistles, illegal or not.

Heck, Cortland Finnegan/Andre Johnson, not suspended for throwing punches at each other's faces last year. Not saying they should have been, but if that is merely fineable (and Finnegan had been fined in the past,) this is too even with the history. If you want to up the fine (as the precedent has been set and the letter of the law has been,) then go for it or change the rule itself.

There isn't a fine line. If Harrison is phased by getting a taste of not having his job then I don't know what else to do. If he can't learn to play by the rules he can't play. If he can't get that through his head I have no problem with his penalties increasing the way they have.

Just because Harrison (the poster boy for dirty hits and getting fined) got suspended for this doesn't mean any player with a personal foul can get suspended. There was no rule even before this that a player can get a suspension for a personal foul without being a repeat offender. A player could have been suspended for a personal foul even before this suspension. James Harrison getting suspended for being a repeat offender doesn't effect the likelihood of anyone else getting suspended for a first time offense.

There doesn't have to be precedent for every action, sometimes things
just need to be done. Goodell is a piece of ****, I won't defend him on just about anything, but he is in the right here. The penalty fits the crime.

And I think Johnson and Finnegan both should have been suspended for the record. Can't be fighting during games.

prock
12-13-2011, 01:43 PM
It isn't like he was randomly suspended for a first offense. The guy is a repeat offender with an infamous history of those types of hits. With all the attention and new studies coming out surrounding head injuries it appears the league is taking a no nonsense approach in an effort to limit their occurrence. This isn't 1992, there is more awareness and information coming out all the time about the long term consequences of head trauma and it appears the league is attempting to set a new standard to discourage superfluous hits.

This, this, and more of this.

Trogdor
12-13-2011, 01:55 PM
All of the above and to cap it Shane. You can't continue suspending a guy when he tells you it has zero effect.

Per Harrison on one of the last fines he received.


"I don't want to hurt nobody. I don't want to step on nobody's foot or hurt their toe," Harrison said 10 months ago. "I don't want to have no dirt or none of this rubber on this field fly into their eye and make their eye hurt. I just want to tackle them softly on the ground and if you all can, we'll lay a pillow down where I'm going to tackle them, so they don't hit the ground too hard ... Mr. Goodell."


He not only breaks the rules but minimizes them, the league office, and every other player other than himself. It's not a slippery slope because this isn't a first time, or second time, or third, or fourth, it's a habitual problem that Harrison (and by extension the Steelers) are refusing to acknowledge. Teach the man how to tackle. Give him a different coloring book during meetings that depicts a tackler using his shoulder or form tackling and see if that works.

The point is you can't continue to fine someone when it is having zero effect on the behavior. In this case it's exactly like telling your three year old "no". If they don't listen they get a time-out.

Prowler
12-13-2011, 02:03 PM
Without there being specific rules on who gets a suspension then it can be seen as the commissioner being biased. Ask the NBA how their image is after their commissioner went rogue. What happens when this occurs in the playoffs? Does he sit out the next game or start of the next season. Hell, soccer has a better and more clear cut system for dealing with suspensions and penalties than the NFL personal safety board, aka Goodell's personal opinion as dictated by national media consensus.

energizerbunny
12-13-2011, 02:06 PM
I've long maintained Harrison is overrated as a player and that he is indeed a very dirty one.

Agree with everything else you said but this, the dude is nearly averaging a sack a game after having off-season back surgery. His overall production speaks for itself.

SuperPacker
12-13-2011, 02:34 PM
I swear its not even illegal to tackle helmet to helmet if the player isnt defenseless or a quarterback?

Shane P. Hallam
12-13-2011, 02:44 PM
I swear its not even illegal to tackle helmet to helmet if the player isnt defenseless or a quarterback?

It's not. If McCoy had crossed the line of scrimmage, it would have been a legal hit.

Caulibflower
12-13-2011, 03:02 PM
Multi-quoted a few, because some of my thoughts are already here in pieces but I want to elaborate a little.

My reaction while watching the game. "Good, knock that dude out and let us take control of the game."

My reaction now. "He should have done it a little cleaner."

I'm tempted to start blaming McCoy's dad for opening his mouth or the Brown's for letting McCoy back into the game. Its hard to judge how much bad publicity can affect a ruling like this. Harrison might have "had it coming" to him without the negative attention to this play. I suspect that the NFLPA will have his back and am wondering if the game ban will stick.

He totally got suspended because McCoy got a concussion. If he'd popped right back up, maybe he gets flagged. He got suspended because of his reputation and because the NFL offices are revisionist disciplinarians looking for positive PR because the last few years the media has been chewing like mad on the bloody bone which is player safety. The only reason its a big deal is because the NFL is essentially an entertainment business. As many NFL players understand, and resent, there are many, many other professions which offer far less rewards and are just as, if not more hazardous. I honestly think part of James Harrison's belligerence is this simple fact. He's always been known as an angry, stubborn (hard to coach!) guy, and you've gotta think part of him is just refusing to let Goodell water down what is probably the most important thing in his life. Football has always been a dangerous, violent sport. No one wants to get get hurt, but sometimes, honestly, I do think that that it's up to the other player to protect himself. The hit Harrison put on McCoy was legal for decades, but now it isn't because so many media fluff pieces have been published going, "Hey! Did you know a 260-lb linebacker hitting a 205-lb QB while he's throwing the ball is like being in a CAR ACCIDENT!?!?" *FAINTS*

I hate this ******* league.

I think you understand where I'm coming from.

There is still no rule for it. Brandon Meriweather was in the situation last year, didn't get suspended. Seymour has punched someone in the face during plays for 3 years in a row, only fines. This was Harrison's first personal foul penalty of the year.

There is no rule to suspend players for this. What is it? After so many fines someone is suspended? Does it depend how bad the hit is or what the personal foul is? Like I said, between the whistles, this is unprecedented. If they want to have a definitive rule on situations to suspend, then do it, but it hasn't been done.

And at the same time, I do understand a desire to keep players safe. It's good for business, it's good for the sport to have players healthy, and I'm not disputing the damage of concussions and the fact that players are bigger, faster, and hit harder than ever. But the league has not been consistent at all, the way they've targeted Harrison is simply wrong, and it needs to be done in a way that allows the game to be what it's supposed to be. There needs to be a distinction between flagrant fouls and incidental helmet contact. I didn't think this was flagrant. I thought it was a really hard hit, but it didn't look like "spearing" to me. He leaned forward with his upper body. Guess what's at the top of a football player's body? His helmeted head. It was head and shoulders hitting McCoy, McCoy's just tiny and got rag-dolled. Maybe there's room for that play to be a penalty within the context of an evolving game, but at this point I'm sort of feeling like the game is just being cheapened to the point that I'd be willing to start seeing some hockey-style attitudes, like you just accept a 15-yarder once in awhile to keep the offense sharp. But these suspensions just... I mean, I'm getting kind of numb to it by now, so they don't "piss me off" so much, but it really feels like anymore, defenses aren't allowed to go after offenses with all they've got. And that's just kind of sad to me.

SuperPacker
12-13-2011, 03:14 PM
It's not. If McCoy had crossed the line of scrimmage, it would have been a legal hit.

Exactly thats what i thought! I dont know why people are saying it doesnt matter if hes a runner or not.

It was harsh on Harrison though because McCoy looked like he was going to run the ball then at the last second he threw it away.

If McCoy hadnt passed to the sideline and kept on running but was still behind the line of scrimmage would it still be an illegal hit?

J-Mike88
12-13-2011, 03:17 PM
Look, if James Harrison wore one of these http://www.homerweb.com/vintage/img-large/rare-antique-1933-pittsburgh-steelers-pirates-leather-game-helmet-spalding-gold_330641177720.jpg , he would not be lowering his head to use the crown of his helmet as a weapon. Maybe he would, but only once.

Good story from the Shutdown Corner http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/blog/shutdown_corner

Jughead10
12-13-2011, 03:22 PM
I just heard on the radio that the Steelers actually re-did Harrison's contract to make his game check's smaller in case it ever came to this. They pushed more money out of his yearly salary and into roster bonuses, etc.

Trogdor
12-13-2011, 03:47 PM
If McCoy hadnt passed to the sideline and kept on running but was still behind the line of scrimmage would it still be an illegal hit?

Yes see below.

It's not. If McCoy had crossed the line of scrimmage, it would have been a legal hit.

... Are you biased or ignoring the NFL rulebook? The fact that he double whammied himself by hitting a "defenseless player (QB throwing)" is just icing on the cake. I would understand the argument defending himself there but that isn't the issue. He clearly violated Rule 12, Section 2, Article 8. See below:

As I previously posted...


Rule 12, Section 2, Article 8 (Unnecessary roughness) in the NFL rulebook

(f) If a player uses any part of his helmet (including the top/crown and forehead/”hairline” parts) or facemask to butt, spear, or ram an opponent violently or unnecessarily.


He clearly lowered his head and used the crown of the helmet to strike an opponent in the head. Harrison knows better and this isn't a brand new rule that he's breaking. It wouldn't matter if he did this hit to a QB, RB, WR, TE, or Tim freaking Tebow. You CANNOT use your helmet as a weapon which is what Harrison does.

Raiderz4Life
12-13-2011, 03:48 PM
Look, if James Harrison wore one of these http://www.homerweb.com/vintage/img-large/rare-antique-1933-pittsburgh-steelers-pirates-leather-game-helmet-spalding-gold_330641177720.jpg , he would not be lowering his head to use the crown of his helmet as a weapon. Maybe he would, but only once.

Good story from the Shutdown Corner http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/blog/shutdown_corner

It probabl wouldn't affect him at all. He doesn't have anything in there to damage.

J-Mike88
12-13-2011, 03:50 PM
Seeing QB's like Tyler Palko, Caleb Hanie, Curt Painter, Charlie Whitehurst, out there is not good for the NFL or for us fans.
It's a rough, brutal, violent game. There will always be injuries due to the nature of the game. Everyone who's played the game, or watched it for awhile, realizes that.

However, there are good and bad ways to tackle, safe and unsafe ways to tackle. Horse-collars are unsafe. So are dives into the fronts or sides of players knees. We have clipping in place to protect defensive players knees. We have the Brady rule to protect the QBs from the hits that he absorobed from Bernard Pollard and like Carson Palmer got from the Steeler linemen. These rules are good rules.

So are rules to protect wide receivers from head-hunters like Dunta Robinson.

I have watched and studied film from today's NFL and compared with the 1980's, 70's, 60's, and earlier. True, back in those days you had guys like Butkis and Nitchke and Dierdorf doing things in the trenches. And you had guys crushing QBs.

But watch film of Dan Marino or Troy Aikman throwing the ball.... guys then didn't still crush them if they had let the pass go already. Nowadays, even with the rules, there are still a lot of DL and LBers who don't slow up after they see the QB throw it.

Romo was crushed on this type of play last year by the Giant blitzing linebacker last year. Broke his collar bone and ended his season. Sam Bradford the same thing at OU from the BYU blitzer. Both cases, the blitzer got there too late, but still took it upon themselves to crush the QB hard and drive them into the turf. QBs after letting the ball go are at their most defenseless position. They're dead ducks

I don't mind a good hard sack, or a hard hit AS the ball is being released. But Harrison's case here was anothere where he SAW the ball thrown. And he still, afteward, tucked his head down and went Ryno on the QB. That's a habit for him, as my outside-in swing is on the tee-box which causes a slice.

Harrison WILL stop that habit if he keeps getting suspended.

Sloopy
12-13-2011, 04:11 PM
Yes see below.



... Are you biased or ignoring the NFL rulebook? The fact that he double whammied himself by hitting a "defenseless player (QB throwing)" is just icing on the cake. I would understand the argument defending himself there but that isn't the issue. He clearly violated Rule 12, Section 2, Article 8. See below:

As I previously posted...



He clearly lowered his head and used the crown of the helmet to strike an opponent in the head. Harrison knows better and this isn't a brand new rule that he's breaking. It wouldn't matter if he did this hit to a QB, RB, WR, TE, or Tim freaking Tebow. You CANNOT use your helmet as a weapon which is what Harrison does.

You aren't including the entire rule. Stop trying to use a part of the rule to prove your point

The fact that the player was throwing makes him a defenseless player, which is what the rule protects. Had Colt crossed the line he would have been a runner and thus would not fall into the category of a defenseless player which includes:

Note: Defenseless players in (f)and (g) shall include (i)a player in the act of or just after throwing a pass; (ii) a receiver catching or attempting to catch a pass; (iii) a runner already in the grasp of a tackler and whose forward progress has been stopped; (iv) a kickoff or punt returner attempting to field a kick in the air; and (v) a player on the ground at the end of a play

So yes it does matter what the situation is.

I want to take a moment to say now that I ******* HATE JAMES ***** ASS HARRISON... however I cannot agree with this suspension. I also want to throw in that this is Harrison's first personal foul this year... the guy is trying

This isn't the usual James Harrison, teeing off on defenseless players, type of hit. the fact is that if he pulls up Colt very well could have ran the ball for a few yards.

I wouldn't have a problem if it weren't for the fact that Harrison very well might have thought he was in the right, he didn't make a clear attempt to break the rules. He can't see the little blue line on the TV like we can and decide that the player is still behind the line of scrimmage.

When a QB roles out of the pocket and becomes a dual threat runner/passer I think that you really leave the defenders at crossroads. If they sit back the guy can run if they come up to try and make the tackle but don't do so quickly enough he runs.

I am not against player safety and I agree that something should be done to prevent concussions but this (at least in this case) just feels like another rule that aids the offense. I think that when a QB roles out of the pocket like that he has said that he is a possible runner and thus makes the decision to forgo his QB protection rules.

If this is the case, how long is it until we see runners about to get thumped in the backfield make an errant attempt at a pass so that it becomes a 15 yard penalty first down, he is still an eligible passer and may turn what would be a 3 yard loss into a 15 yard gain. I don't know what the answer is but the way the rules are currently being called really just adds to what is already a lopsided league to defend in.

Trogdor
12-13-2011, 05:42 PM
You aren't including the entire rule. Stop trying to use a part of the rule to prove your point


*Sigh* I'll link you to the full verbage. Hell it's on the Steelers depot :D

http://www.steelersdepot.com/2010/10/nfl-rule-book-2010-rule-12-section-2-article-8/

Now first notice the section on impermissible use of helmet and facemask. Read it. Now special attention is being paid to players in the 'defenseless' positions however the section I quoted and I will continue the same quote below.

(f) If a player uses any part of his helmet (including the top/crown and forehead/”hairline” parts) or facemask to butt, spear, or ram an opponent violently or unnecessarily. Although such violent or unnecessary use of the helmet and face mask is IMPERMISSIBLE against ANY OPPONENT, game officials will give special attention in administering this rule to protecting those players who are in virtually defenseless postures...

Special attention is being paid to protecting defenseless players however the use of using your helmet or face mask as a weapon is impermissible.

It's fine if you guys want to hate the rule but Harrison is clearly in the wrong based on the NFL rule book.

Rabscuttle
12-13-2011, 07:13 PM
Would fans rather the league dealt with this issue or outside forces?

When a guy is a repeat violator who is vocal in his disregard for the rules there is little choice left other than to show him there are consequences. He cried poor about previous suspensions and yet here we are........... again.

This wasn't even a case of a player lowering himself into a tackle where helmet to helmet contact is likely to happen. This was a guy that just doesn't care when he gets in a mood and if you don't like Goodell protecting other players and the continued existence of the league there are other agencies looking at how the league is dealing cases like this.

What do you think will happen when the lawsuits start piling up from victims and the victims of victims? If the league doesn't show that it is earnestly trying to remove concussions from the game, what do you think the long-term affect is going to be on the league?

Iamcanadian
12-13-2011, 07:17 PM
Should have been 2 games IMO, repeat offenders especially those who have been punished more than once, need a real lesson. I'm a Lion's fan and had no problem with Suh getting 2 games.

Rabscuttle
12-13-2011, 07:37 PM
On the subject of taking responsibility for actions, receivers have to be taught not to run into harm's way in zones by coaches and then quit doing it and offensive players have to quit ducking their heads into tackles. Concussions aren't just a case of defensive players needing to alter their games. Coaches and offensive players need to play their part in preventing concussions as well.

Sloopy
12-13-2011, 07:38 PM
*Sigh* I'll link you to the full verbage. Hell it's on the Steelers depot :D

http://www.steelersdepot.com/2010/10/nfl-rule-book-2010-rule-12-section-2-article-8/

Now first notice the section on impermissible use of helmet and facemask. Read it. Now special attention is being paid to players in the 'defenseless' positions however the section I quoted and I will continue the same quote below.

(f) If a player uses any part of his helmet (including the top/crown and forehead/”hairline” parts) or facemask to butt, spear, or ram an opponent violently or unnecessarily. Although such violent or unnecessary use of the helmet and face mask is IMPERMISSIBLE against ANY OPPONENT, game officials will give special attention in administering this rule to protecting those players who are in virtually defenseless postures...

Special attention is being paid to protecting defenseless players however the use of using your helmet or face mask as a weapon is impermissible.

It's fine if you guys want to hate the rule but Harrison is clearly in the wrong based on the NFL rule book.

Yes the rule is basically for defenseless players and violent hits... I would hardly call his hit "violent"

You said that it wouldn't matter the situation... it does matter... not quite sure what your getting at here.

The guy was fined because of his history so they are giving him no leeway when it comes to these types of hits and obviously the refs are aware of it too.

Saints-Tigers
12-13-2011, 07:55 PM
It's basically a dirty hit because McCoy didn't cross the LoS. That's funny to me.

Sloopy
12-13-2011, 08:01 PM
It's basically a dirty hit because McCoy didn't cross the LoS. That's funny to me.

Exactly... inches make the difference between a play with no flag, perfectly fine hit (maybe a highlight hit?) and a suspension... its just ridiculous

J-Mike88
12-13-2011, 08:44 PM
Should have been 2 games IMO, repeat offenders especially those who have been punished more than once, need a real lesson. I'm a Lion's fan and had no problem with Suh getting 2 games.
Once again, a Canadian and Lions fan pretty much /thread material right there.
I'd have given Harrison 2 games too.

The point of rules like these is for player safety (in this case, QB's).
Harrison has already been fined numerous times, to no affect. So are these fines deterring the reckless, ABM? No it is not.... so -for player safety, per the rules- what's the next step up from fines?

Suspensions.

The dirty player already has admitted on record that the fines don't deter him and he's gonna keep playing dirty. He didn't say the word dirty. He said "the way he always plays".
Which is dirty.

Again, put a leather helmet on him, and let's see how many times he tucks his head down and hits like that.

brat316
12-13-2011, 09:19 PM
UGH you guys are all missing the point here. LOOPHOLE bitcheeess, if you run the wildcat or take a direct snap with the Rb, and it looks like the play is going to fail, let him lower his head. Then the player that is going to tackle him will more than not make helmet to helmet contact with a "QB." Bam 15 yards and 1st down from failed play.

Sloopy
12-13-2011, 09:30 PM
UGH you guys are all missing the point here. LOOPHOLE bitcheeess, if you run the wildcat or take a direct snap with the Rb, and it looks like the play is going to fail, let him lower his head. Then the player that is going to tackle him will more than not make helmet to helmet contact with a "QB." Bam 15 yards and 1st down from failed play.

Kind of my point earlier: how long is it until we see running backs who are going to get blown up in the backfield making errant throws and turning a 3 yard loss into a 15 yard penalty and a first down

wogitalia
12-13-2011, 10:17 PM
Yep... why not just structure an offense on pitches, if the RB sees a gain, run, if he doesn't wait until last minute and hurl ball out past the LOS.

Even more so if you can make it a CB who will dive at your legs then you have the double chance.

I don't really have problem if they had thrown the flag for spearing, as has been posted it's against the rules(whether I like it or not) but this wasn't a flag for that, it was a roughing the passer flag and suspension, which I think is stupid given that McCoy should be considered a runner in that situation.

Worth noting they never call spearing on a runner, the Gocong hit is a classic same game example, that hit was fundamentally the same thing. That is the problem I think a lot of people have, you have a rule that is never called and now Harrison is being suspended for a rule that is eerily similar but vastly different. This is a roughing the passer suspension, not a spearing suspension.

It's funny this is the hit getting all the talk this week when the Brady call was a FAR worse call, that was an abortion of a call that was just wrong on every level. It was a ref who ****** up and then couldn't admit it and so he dug the hole even deeper by making **** up. That was a horrible call that us fans of contact should be penalising.

Also... how stupid was the flag for hitting Ponder, the rule is if a QB throws a pick you aren't allowed to touch him, regardless. So the QB can go and basically shadow a runner out of bounds because the runner wouldn't be allowed to make contact with him. That is just taking it too far and is just plain ridiculous.(they changed it from only allowed to hit him if he is attempting to make a tackle this season).

Whatever happened to keep your head on a swivel and protect yourself at all times? These rule changes are just so reckless, you are teaching guys to expose themselves to danger to get free yards. It's getting ridiculous.

MidwayMonster31
12-13-2011, 10:21 PM
I know someone beat me to this, but at what point are offensive players going to start taking advantage of these things? It's easy to duck into someone and get a call. If it's 3rd and 15 and there's a blitz, all a QB has to do is duck into someone's helmet and move the chains that way (if they're willing to risk it). It's also easy to extend your hands and get hit while you're in the air.
Harrison is a repeat offender (even if the Brees one was garbage), but I think a suspension for an in-game foul is still excessive.

Caulibflower
12-16-2011, 03:31 AM
Preparing for bump...

Caulibflower
12-16-2011, 03:32 AM
And... one more...

Caulibflower
12-16-2011, 03:33 AM
I'm sure some of you have read it. Just kind of interesting to see how how much this man relishes his role as a Harbinger of Pain.

http://www.mensjournal.com/jamesharrison/3

Caulibflower
12-16-2011, 03:43 AM
One of the things the article mentions is that while all the attention to head injuries comes when people like Harrison make big hits in games, the reality is that long-term brain trauma is much more likely to be the result of all the two-a-day practices players go through before the seasons start - that's way more brain-hitting-skull action than any given big hit on a Sunday. It's not just getting a concussion, although they can be scary - if you're talking about player safety, you've got to be thinking about how they train.

EDIT: And just because I think it's a great little blurb from the article - "..his ambiguous take on Troy Polamalu, Pittsburgh’s sanctified safety: “He’s the one guy in football I respect absolutely, ’cause he’s spiritual and lives it like he talks it. You know, he gets more flags than anyone on our team but never gets fined for nothin’. He’s so polite and talks so softly that he could tell Goodell to kiss his ass, and Goodell would smile and say thank you.” "