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whatadai
12-13-2011, 02:41 PM
I didn't think Cam Newton would do well in the NFL. The guy is an erratic passer and has shown it in the NFL. I admit that he's a much better passer than I thought though. I just want to gauge what people think since I'm not so sure myself. I pretty much want to gauge his long-term value. So I have a few questions...

Will he improve further? Will an actual off-season allow him to improve his passing and not run after his first read? Do they have the coaching staff for him to actually learn to be a better passer?

How much of his running ability actually allows him to pass more easily since defenses will have to account for his running ability? He also runs like a full-back and the more you get hit the higher chance you'll have of getting injured, so if he does get injured with a small sprain where he could still stay in the game but not run, will he still be able to be an effective passer?

Legs seem to run out of steam before arms in the NFL...how long will it take for his legs to not help him anymore?

Is his passing currently looking a lot better just because he has Steve Smith? I mean, the guy made Delhomme look awesome. And what if Steve Smith retires in a few years? Carolina has pretty terrible management and hasn't been able to find a successor to Smith at WR. Will this make it more difficult for him?

And does anyone think he will have a sophomore slump?

jrdrylie
12-13-2011, 02:45 PM
I think he will have a sophomore slump. In fact, it has already started. He set the world on fire at first but has substantially cooled off. Teams are figuring him out. And he is the exact opposite of guys like Tim Tebow and Vince Young. All he does is lose. The Panthers have blown leads galore in the 4th quarter and Newton does nothing to get his team back into the position to win the game.

JBCX
12-13-2011, 02:46 PM
He also seems very full of himself. I wouldn't be surprised at all if character concerns finally derail his career and he never makes the jump from a Randall Cunningham-like athletic marvel to true elite QB.

Jughead10
12-13-2011, 02:48 PM
He also seems very full of himself. I wouldn't be surprised at all if character concerns finally derail his career and he never makes the jump from a Randall Cunningham-like athletic marvel to true elite QB.

He's going to be a Hall of Famer now. This just sealed it.

SuperPacker
12-13-2011, 02:50 PM
Will he improve further? Will an actual off-season allow him to improve his passing and not run after his first read? Do they have the coaching staff for him to actually learn to be a better passer?

Yes, yes, yes.

If he does get injured with a small sprain where he could still stay in the game but not run, will he still be able to be an effective passer?

Yes! Definitely will.

Legs seem to run out of steam before arms in the NFL...how long will it take for his legs to not help him anymore?

At least 5 years. He doesnt run that much by the way.

Will be struggle without Smith?

He probably will but i think they have enough time to draft a guy they like.

Sophomore slump?

Possibly but I wouldn't bet against him. If the Panthers had the Bengals defense there wouldnt be a question as to who would be ROY between Dalton and Newton.

SuperPacker
12-13-2011, 02:59 PM
I think he will have a sophomore slump. In fact, it has already started. He set the world on fire at first but has substantially cooled off. Teams are figuring him out. And he is the exact opposite of guys like Tim Tebow and Vince Young. All he does is lose. The Panthers have blown leads galore in the 4th quarter and Newton does nothing to get his team back into the position to win the game.

This disgust me! Tim Tebow will probably be getting all the credit for the Broncos win yet again as people forget to mention that it was Marion Barber who ran out of bounds to let the Broncos get the ball, a 59 yard field goal by Prater that got Denver into OT and the defense getting the fumble which enabled Tebow to get the ball in OT

Tebow was useless through the whole game including the 4th quarter where he managed to score an amazing 1 touchdown! People think Tebow suddenly becomes amazing in the 4th quarter but he just becomes average.

jrdrylie
12-13-2011, 03:02 PM
This disgust me! Tim Tebow will probably be getting all the credit for the Broncos win yet again as people forget to mention that it was Marion Barber who ran out of bounds to let the Broncos get the ball, a 59 yard field goal by Prater that got Denver into OT and the defense getting the fumble which enabled Tebow to get the ball in OT

Tebow was useless through the whole game including the 4th quarter where he managed to score an amazing 1 touchdown! People think Tebow suddenly becomes amazing in the 4th quarter but he just becomes average.

Don't get me wrong, I don't give Tebow credit for the wins. In fact, I put him at about 6th in terms of who deserves credit for the Bronco win/Bears loss. But I've seen Newton in crunch time. He throws picks. His accuracy breaks down. I just don't think he has that clutch gene, which is surprising because he seemed to have in at Auburn.

cmarq83
12-13-2011, 03:07 PM
I don't think it's fair to label Newton as unclutch when his defense is downright terrible. It's too much to ask a guy to score all the time to win games for you. Guys like Brady and Rodgers have a hard enough time doing it. A rookie who's still getting his feet wet will really feel the pressure when there is no room for error. It's easier for a guy like Tebow to score 1TD to win a game whereas Newton makes mistakes because he feels like he needs to score 30+ points every game to win. It causes him to force too much and take unnecessary chances for a prolonged period of time

SuperPacker
12-13-2011, 03:09 PM
I don't think it's fair to label Newton as unclutch when his defense is downright terrible. It's too much to ask a guy to score all the time to win games for you. Guys like Brady and Rodgers have a hard enough time doing it. A rookie who's still getting his feet wet will really feel the pressure when there is no room for error. It's easier for a guy like Tebow to score 1TD to win a game whereas Newton makes mistakes because he feels like he needs to score 30+ points every game to win. It causes him to force too much and take unnecessary chances for a prolonged period of time

Agree with everything you said here 110%! Couldn't of said it better myself!

Bulldogs
12-13-2011, 03:14 PM
I hate to say this as a Falcons fan and rival, but Newton will be a stud. Don't know where the idea he's been slowing down is coming from, he had a bad game this past weekend, but the week before he was absolutely dominant. I could see him not improving much next year, and then having a huge breakout year three. He'll be a top 5 QB within five seasons IMO.

Sloopy
12-13-2011, 03:22 PM
Cam's big test will be his sophomore slump.

Some guys like this come out strong but never really get over that second year. It remains to be seen if he is really the future of the NFL QB position or if he will just be another Mike Vickesc athlete playing QB that is fun to watch yet doesn't have what it takes to really win it all.

He has a lot of learning to do about making reads and making good decisions with the ball. He has certainly proven that he has the arm and the ability to be accurate.

An NFL offseason will certainly help him if he choses to keep his head in the playbook and absorb as much as he can. If he choses to live it up as an NFL SUPASTAAAA he may falter.

I don't think that an injury will hinder him. I look at him really as a Big Ben type who has the ability to run and the strength to stand tall in the pocket with players draped around him. Injuries would hurt his mobility but he has the arm to stand in the pocket.

I don't think that anyone can tell you how long his legs will last. However if he becomes a student of the game and improves his passing game they will last much longer as well as his career.

I wouldn't say that Smith is the only thing making him look good. He has some nice TE's to aid in his development, I'd venture to say that this is way more important to a young QB than a short, angry wideout who is losing his first step.

Do I think that he will have a sophomore slump? Absolutely, it's already beginning. Next year he may struggle out of the gate but the more time he spends in the film room; the faster he will get over it.

Sloopy
12-13-2011, 03:24 PM
I hate to say this as a Falcons fan and rival, but Newton will be a stud. Don't know where the idea he's been slowing down is coming from, he had a bad game this past weekend, but the week before he was absolutely dominant. I could see him not improving much next year, and then having a huge breakout year three. He'll be a top 5 QB within five seasons IMO.

I don't know about top 5 but certainly very good. I could see him having a career similar to Big Ben. Franchise type QB who isn't a top 5 but is clutch and a major factor in the offense

Ghost of Juice
12-13-2011, 03:33 PM
I think he will have a sophomore slump. In fact, it has already started. He set the world on fire at first but has substantially cooled off. Teams are figuring him out. And he is the exact opposite of guys like Tim Tebow and Vince Young. All he does is lose. The Panthers have blown leads galore in the 4th quarter and Newton does nothing to get his team back into the position to win the game.
He brought his team down the field to attempt a field goal to take the lead late in the game against the falcons, its not his fault Olindo Mare is trash and missed a chip shot.

SuperPacker
12-13-2011, 03:42 PM
He brought his team down the field to attempt a field goal to take the lead late in the game against the falcons, its not his fault Olindo Mare is trash and missed a chip shot.

But obviously if Tebow was the quarterback Mare would've made the kick. Because TEBOW IS GOD!

OzTitan
12-13-2011, 04:16 PM
We've seen Newton when the Panthers have nothing to lose. How Newton plays when the Panthers are in close games with good teams and playoff aspirations on the line will be the next big test. This is what ultimately seperates all QBs in the end.

Sloopy
12-13-2011, 04:20 PM
We've seen Newton when the Panthers have nothing to lose. How Newton plays when the Panthers are in close games with good teams and playoff aspirations on the line will be the next big test. This is what ultimately seperates all QBs in the end.

That's some deep **** man :P

No_
12-13-2011, 04:20 PM
I trust he'll figure it out. There will definitely be some rough patches, but he'll counter what ever the defenses do to take away his safety blanket. I would love to see the front office bring in some more aggressive receivers in the offseason (although the team has great blocking WR's right now). I think the interceptions will come down as well. He's firing away at this point trying to play catch up. Work on the defense a little bit. Another possesion receiver or two, and Cam will be fine

dj825
12-13-2011, 04:26 PM
He brought his team down the field to attempt a field goal to take the lead late in the game against the falcons, its not his fault Olindo Mare is trash and missed a chip shot.

Same exact thing happened against the Vikings and Mare missed the game winner as time expired from 25 yards away. Newton has on multiple occasions put his team in situation to win late in the game but the defense or kicker screwed it up. thats not to say hes perfect late in the game and he has thrown away a couple but overall hes been good late. he also doesnt run nearly as much as people think he does.

Sloopy
12-13-2011, 04:29 PM
Same exact thing happened against the Vikings and Mare missed the game winner as time expired from 25 yards away. Newton has on multiple occasions put his team in situation to win late in the game but the defense or kicker screwed it up. thats not to say hes perfect late in the game and he has thrown away a couple but overall hes been good late. he also doesnt run nearly as much as people think he does.

This. I really like his chances as he seems to be happy sitting in the pocket making plays with his arm.

He really needs to get in the film room and become a student of the game and he could be great.

Again: To me he is a more athletic Big Ben

Jvig43
12-13-2011, 04:30 PM
He's going to be a Hall of Famer now. This just sealed it.

I must say I love the approach people are taking to this troll.

FUNBUNCHER
12-13-2011, 04:58 PM
He brought his team down the field to attempt a field goal to take the lead late in the game against the falcons, its not his fault Olindo Mare is trash and missed a chip shot.

Didn't you know if you're a rookie QB who isn't throwing for 400 yards every game, you're 'slumping'.

I wish people would leave Cam alone and quit piling on the guy.
You had the angry mob that came out before the draft who said who was destined to be future garbage in the NFL. Someone who had a greater potential to bust than become a future All Pro.

He literally re-writes the record books for passing yards and rushing TDs for a rookie QB in a shortened offseason without any minicamps or OTAs, and people are still searching for the self-destruct button on Cam and begging for someone to push it.

I just don't get it why some folks have such a deep seated personal dislike for some players. The only players I 'dislike' are those who repeatedly kick the Skins' ass! lol

Cam's rookie season was a testament to how talented this guy is. He's better right now than any of us thought, even his biggest supporters.

Who he becomes in the future will be all about how bad he wants to be a great player and win championships.

If I were a Carolina Panthers fan, I'd feel like Christmas came early last April.

Sloopy
12-13-2011, 05:04 PM
Didn't you know if you're a rookie QB who isn't throwing for 400 yards every game, you're 'slumping'.

I wish people would leave Cam alone and quit piling on the guy.
You had the angry mob that came out before the draft who said who was destined to be future garbage in the NFL. Someone who had a greater potential to bust than become a future All Pro.

He literally re-writes the record books for passing yards and rushing TDs for a rookie QB in a shortened offseason without any minicamps or OTAs, and people are still searching for the self-destruct button on Cam and begging for someone to push it.

I just don't get it why some folks have such a deep seated personal dislike for some players. The only players I 'dislike' are those who repeatedly kick the Skins' ass! lol

Cam's rookie season was a testament to how talented this guy is. He's better right now than any of us thought, even his biggest supporters.

Who he becomes in the future will be all about how bad he wants to be a great player and win championships.

If I were a Carolina Panthers fan, I'd feel like Christmas came early last April.

WOAH THERE MOTHER-****** :P

I don't think anyones trying to slam him here. Most QBs go through sophomore slumps, this isn't a knock against him.

I personally think he can be the franchise QB for the Panthers if he stays the course and absorbs everything that he can in the offseason

ShutDwn
12-13-2011, 05:12 PM
I hate to say this as a Falcons fan and rival, but Newton will be a stud. Don't know where the idea he's been slowing down is coming from, he had a bad game this past weekend, but the week before he was absolutely dominant.


Cam's biggest issue right now is that he doesn't have as short a memory as the OP. Once he learns to shrug off that first interception and move on to the next one, he'll be a much better QB. The Atlanta game was such a good illustration of an experienced team weathering the storm against an inexperienced one who lost momentum and didn't know how to get it back.

He's a rookie who is the teams best chance to win and he knows it. He tries to do too much and it gets him in trouble. He needs to let the game come to him. I think he'll start to understand the momentum of football games and how to get through them.

One thing about his development next year though, it would really suck if we lost both our QB coach Shula and our OC Chudzinski. They're both being brought up for other coaching jobs. I really want them to stay, they've been amazing for him.

whatadai
12-13-2011, 05:37 PM
Cam's biggest issue right now is that he doesn't have as short a memory as the OP.

I never said he was slowing down, someone else did. Learn how to read before you insult someone.

And to the people that say he doesn't run that much...please explain. The only quarterback I can think of that might run more than him is Vick and Tebow. Tebow doesn't count cause running is all he does. And the one guy that might beat him is Vick, and having one QB run more than him doesn't mean he doesn't run a lot. He has as many carries as a backup RB would have on most teams...and his own team too.

SuperPacker
12-13-2011, 05:47 PM
I never said he was slowing down, someone else did. Learn how to read before you insult someone.

And to the people that say he doesn't run that much...please explain. The only quarterback I can think of that might run more than him is Vick and Tebow. Tebow doesn't count cause running is all he does. And the one guy that might beat him is Vick, and having one QB run more than him doesn't mean he doesn't run a lot. He has as many carries as a backup RB would have on most teams...and his own team too.

Running a few times a game is not a lot! It probably looks like he runs a lot because whenever he does its shown in the highlights.

BTW saying you can only think of two guys that run more that Newton dowsnt really mean much because they are the only two quarterbacks that run. No other QBs run much so its not hard to be the 3rd most rub orientated QB

whatadai
12-13-2011, 06:02 PM
Running a few times a game is not a lot! It probably looks like he runs a lot because whenever he does its shown in the highlights.

BTW saying you can only think of two guys that run more that Newton dowsnt really mean much because they are the only two quarterbacks that run. No other QBs run much so its not hard to be the 3rd most rub orientated QB

No other QBs run much...because they're suppose to be protected and not get injured so they don't end up like Mike Vick every year. I'm not even sure why they let Newton run so much...do they really want Clausen to play that badly? So 100+ runs in 14 games is a lot in my opinion, considering Newton actually takes hits and doesn't slide.

Saints-Tigers
12-13-2011, 06:37 PM
He has immense value. Even if you take his running out of the equation, he's shown massive upside as a passer, keeping a terrible team in games NOW and he's clearly raw and still has a huge amount of room for improvement.

Scary how much better he can get, not going to be fun seeing him twice a year.

This coming from a person who thought Cam needed a ton of time to sit and learn if he ever hoped to be a good NFL QB.

Rosebud
12-13-2011, 06:49 PM
He's the JPP of quarterbacks.

Iamcanadian
12-13-2011, 07:11 PM
Didn't you know if you're a rookie QB who isn't throwing for 400 yards every game, you're 'slumping'.

I wish people would leave Cam alone and quit piling on the guy.
You had the angry mob that came out before the draft who said who was destined to be future garbage in the NFL. Someone who had a greater potential to bust than become a future All Pro.

He literally re-writes the record books for passing yards and rushing TDs for a rookie QB in a shortened offseason without any minicamps or OTAs, and people are still searching for the self-destruct button on Cam and begging for someone to push it.

I just don't get it why some folks have such a deep seated personal dislike for some players. The only players I 'dislike' are those who repeatedly kick the Skins' ass! lol

Cam's rookie season was a testament to how talented this guy is. He's better right now than any of us thought, even his biggest supporters.

Who he becomes in the future will be all about how bad he wants to be a great player and win championships.

If I were a Carolina Panthers fan, I'd feel like Christmas came early last April.

Right on. Some people can just not accept reality. This guy is going to get better and better. At first I thought maybe his personality might get in the way but after seeing Deon Sanders on NFL Network, I realized they had the same personality and it didn't hold Deon back 1 bit.

A sophomore slump is possible but I doubt it, I think he will play head and shoulders above the level he showed this year. People who suffer sophomore slumps tend to be people who question their own abilities and it can get under their skin their 2nd year in the league. You don't have to worry about that happening to Newton, his self confidence is off the charts and he will throw himself into making himself the best he can be.

I fully expect the Panthers to go no worse than 8-8 next season and be a dangerous Super Bowl contender in his 3rd season.

Newton has a real shot to break most of the NFL records for QB's, he is a huge man who has all the talent in the world and a character that cannot accept mediocrity and will work immensely hard at perfecting his abilities.
What more can you ask for? Only injuries can derail this on coming train.

Indeed, Carolina fans got the best Christmas present they could ask for last April.

DraftSavant
12-13-2011, 07:11 PM
He's the JPP of quarterbacks.

I approve of this post.

Complex
12-13-2011, 07:13 PM
Top 3 QB in 2 years. He doesn't have Tebow ability to will his Kicker to make clutch FG's. I don't know how he is in a slump, he isn't throwing for 400 yards every game but he has been playing pretty good for a ROOKIE every year.

Sloopy
12-13-2011, 07:44 PM
Top 3 QB in 2 years. He doesn't have Tebow ability to will his Kicker to make clutch FG's. I don't know how he is in a slump, he isn't throwing for 400 yards every game but he has been playing pretty good for a ROOKIE every year.

I can't speak for anyone else, but my point was that he isn't as on fire as when the season started, for any # of reasons and as teams get tape on him it might get worse.

If he continues to perform his due diligence in the film room and doesn't get a fat head in the offseason he will work through it; much like many good rookie QBs.

Not trying to knock the guy, for the third time I will say it: I really see him as a more athletic Big Ben, not exactly a diss

San Diego Chicken
12-13-2011, 08:33 PM
He's too determined to be a star to fail. I think he just needs try not to take the entire game on his own shoulders, the first interception he threw on Sunday was a good example of that, when he was in the grasp of a defender and tried to throw a pass left handed to his checkdown and it was easily picked off. You can't always try to make the one highlight play to win the game, in the NFL it's about good decisions and making the correct plays that add up to a win. It's tempting to let him do his thing because he's so unique and gifted but you have to reign your guy in from a young age or he'll make the same mistakes for the rest of his career.

Timbathia
12-13-2011, 08:43 PM
People think Tebow suddenly becomes amazing in the 4th quarter but he just becomes average.

Well, that really isnt true. This season his QB rating is 111 in the 4th quarter, as well as his yardage per completion of over 9. In fact only Rogers is higher in both categories this season over the course of a game. I am not sure, but would think most people consider numbers equivalent to 2nd in the NFL as above average. Tebow also averages 6 yards per carry in the 4th quarter with quite a lot of rushing attempts.

No-one argues that he isnt trash the rest of the game, but to say he is only average in the 4th quarter is a stretch. Dont let facts get in the way of your Tebow hatred though.

Flyboy
12-13-2011, 08:46 PM
He's the JPP of quarterbacks.

Great post, sir. I, too, will co-sign this.

ShutDwn
12-13-2011, 09:30 PM
I can't speak for anyone else, but my point was that he isn't as on fire as when the season started, for any # of reasons and as teams get tape on him it might get worse.

If he continues to perform his due diligence in the film room and doesn't get a fat head in the offseason he will work through it; much like many good rookie QBs.

Not trying to knock the guy, for the third time I will say it: I really see him as a more athletic Big Ben, not exactly a diss

I think they started playing to keep everything in front of them and limit his ability to go deep with the pass. Like defenses play other good QBs, they are testing his patience which is another lesson for him to learn.

I understand the whole "defenses get more tape on him" thing, but he can improve in areas such as blitz recognition, getting the ball out faster, throwing it away more (he never does) just as much as defenses can improve. That, and he has only been with this set of receivers and in this offense for almost a season. With a guy like Cam, receivers also have to learn how to get open when he extends plays. The Steelers are so good at it because Ben has been doing it for a while now.

He is a great down the field thrower, his deficiencies right now are short to intermediate. He has gotten better at them, but he isn't a finished product yet.

armageddon
12-13-2011, 09:39 PM
I'm a hard sell, and I'm sold. I love the big, athletic, strong, mobile QB. He is the real deal. He is a better McNabb.

descendency
12-13-2011, 09:52 PM
You'd know if you watch the games instead of reading box scores.

whatadai
12-14-2011, 03:56 AM
You'd know if you watch the games instead of reading box scores.

That's a stupid comment.

1. I'm not a Carolina fan.
2. Their games aren't always televised here.
3. I don't have time to watch 13-16 games a week.
4. I'm not making any specific, cemented opinions on him and asking a question. If everyone knew everything about every player by watching every college and professional football game in the world, there would be no point in having a forum for discussion or scouts.
5. Stop trolling and get a life, or I guess you don't have one cause you have the time to watch every NFL game every week.

Prowler
12-14-2011, 04:43 AM
He's their QB of the future and can guide the team to a Super Bowl provided they surround him with a better defense up front and some more options on offense.

Also, isn't he also slumping due to shoulder fatigue? Not slinging it downfield to Steve Smith anymore.

Miaoww
12-14-2011, 06:10 AM
I never said he was slowing down, someone else did. Learn how to read before you insult someone.

And to the people that say he doesn't run that much...please explain. The only quarterback I can think of that might run more than him is Vick and Tebow. Tebow doesn't count cause running is all he does. And the one guy that might beat him is Vick, and having one QB run more than him doesn't mean he doesn't run a lot. He has as many carries as a backup RB would have on most teams...and his own team too.

The majority of the runs are designed runs. He's not scrambling after one read, it's option reads that Chud gives him.

Sloopy
12-14-2011, 08:50 AM
I think they started playing to keep everything in front of them and limit his ability to go deep with the pass. Like defenses play other good QBs, they are testing his patience which is another lesson for him to learn.

I understand the whole "defenses get more tape on him" thing, but he can improve in areas such as blitz recognition, getting the ball out faster, throwing it away more (he never does) just as much as defenses can improve. That, and he has only been with this set of receivers and in this offense for almost a season. With a guy like Cam, receivers also have to learn how to get open when he extends plays. The Steelers are so good at it because Ben has been doing it for a while now.

He is a great down the field thrower, his deficiencies right now are short to intermediate. He has gotten better at them, but he isn't a finished product yet.

That was also kind of my point earlier: If he absorbs all that he can from the coaching staff in the offseason and puts in the time in the film room, the slump won't be as big nor as long. If he gets caught up in being a superstar he will inevitably flounder. This isn't to knock him, this is true of all QBs, I am a firm Cam believer and I indeed do believe he turns out like a Big Ben type

ShutDwn
12-14-2011, 01:33 PM
He's their QB of the future and can guide the team to a Super Bowl provided they surround him with a better defense up front and some more options on offense.

Also, isn't he also slumping due to shoulder fatigue? Not slinging it downfield to Steve Smith anymore.

Defense are taking the deep passes away completely. Newton commented on the amount of attention Smith gets a few weeks ago. Basically, with the way our receivers are, I think that Smith has to run a lot of clear out patterns to open the middle up for LaFell, Naanee and the tight ends. Hopefully Gettis comes back and can take those routes too.

Smith doesn't get to run the underneath stuff as much because defenses aren't threatened by the speed of the other receivers. The Packers' offense is so good because all their receivers can do this.

descendency
12-14-2011, 06:26 PM
That's a stupid comment.

A stupid comment for a stupid topic.

You are trying to sound authoritative on something you have zero clue about.

Brothgar
12-14-2011, 06:53 PM
I think he will have a sophomore slump. In fact, it has already started. He set the world on fire at first but has substantially cooled off. Teams are figuring him out. And he is the exact opposite of guys like Tim Tebow and Vince Young. All he does is lose. The Panthers have blown leads galore in the 4th quarter and Newton does nothing to get his team back into the position to win the game.

If Cam Newton's D held the offense to 17 points or less in 66% of his games the Panthers would be undefeated.

whatadai
12-14-2011, 08:30 PM
A stupid comment for a stupid topic.

You are trying to sound authoritative on something you have zero clue about.

How am I trying to sound authoritative when I'm asking like a dozen questions? I'm not making statements, I'm asking questions. Learn the difference and stop trolling. Notice how everyone else is answering the questions and giving me their opinions and you're the only idiot trolling?

If you actually read the posts in this thread you would see that I'm playing the devil's advocate and when someone corrects my assumptions so that I may understand more, I don't refute it. Example:

The majority of the runs are designed runs. He's not scrambling after one read, it's option reads that Chud gives him.

Now stop being a troll or GTFO.

descendency
12-14-2011, 09:40 PM
How am I trying to sound authoritative when I'm asking like a dozen questions? I'm not making statements, I'm asking questions. Learn the difference and stop trolling. Notice how everyone else is answering the questions and giving me their opinions and you're the only idiot trolling?

Here you go:

The only quarterback I can think of that might run more than him is Vick and Tebow. Tebow doesn't count cause running is all he does. And the one guy that might beat him is Vick, and having one QB run more than him doesn't mean he doesn't run a lot. He has as many carries as a backup RB would have on most teams...and his own team too.

You're "thinking" about something that could be quantified, but thinking requires actually watching games. So what you mean is that you've read some box scores and jumped to conclusions. Thread = worthless.

ShutDwn
12-14-2011, 09:44 PM
How am I trying to sound authoritative when I'm asking like a dozen questions? I'm not making statements, I'm asking questions. Learn the difference and stop trolling. Notice how everyone else is answering the questions and giving me their opinions and you're the only idiot trolling?

If you actually read the posts in this thread you would see that I'm playing the devil's advocate and when someone corrects my assumptions so that I may understand more, I don't refute it. Example:



Now stop being a troll or GTFO.

woah there, Miaoww is right. The runs are mostly from the option with the backs. He has to run if the end crashes down. Also, he doesn't take many hits unless he is at the goal line and tries to dive for it. I haven't seen him take a hit even close to big outside in the open field. He goes down before anyone touches him just about every time. Even though he is so big, he isn't dumb like Vick as a runner, who takes way too many hits.

whatadai
12-14-2011, 11:51 PM
Here you go:

You're "thinking" about something that could be quantified, but thinking requires actually watching games. So what you mean is that you've read some box scores and jumped to conclusions. Thread = worthless.

When you're saying someone runs a lot...you can take a box score into account since it shows that they do run more than other QBs. Miaoww on the other hand explains to me that the reason he runs a lot is because he does go through his option reads and then runs. Therefore, explaining to me why he runs more than other QBs. I didn't refute that.

Why does thinking actually require watching games? You make no sense, you need to think before you talk. I've watched more Philly and Denver games than Carolina and from what I've seen out of other games that I've watched, only Tebow and Vick probably choose to run more than Newton. Box scores prove me right. My question was...why and how does it effect Newton in the long run? And everyone is answering that question, but a TROLL.

Seriously, if you hate this thread so much, why do you keep coming back? You obviously have no analysis of Newton on your own yet you expect me to. And I obviously have no analysis on him...otherwise I wouldn't be asking these questions.

whatadai
12-14-2011, 11:55 PM
woah there, Miaoww is right. The runs are mostly from the option with the backs. He has to run if the end crashes down. Also, he doesn't take many hits unless he is at the goal line and tries to dive for it. I haven't seen him take a hit even close to big outside in the open field. He goes down before anyone touches him just about every time. Even though he is so big, he isn't dumb like Vick as a runner, who takes way too many hits.

Most of Newton that I see are highlights and in a few highlights it seems that he does take hits, mostly when he's going for those TD runs in the redzone. Most QBs would slide before they get close to taking the first hit but Cam Newton chugs along all the way to the endzone. Of course, I've seen some where he just walks in untouched too, but the hits that he does take seems as hard as a regular QB hit. They just seem to not get him easily cause he's so big.

dj825
12-15-2011, 03:18 AM
Most of Newton that I see are highlights and in a few highlights it seems that he does take hits, mostly when he's going for those TD runs in the redzone. Most QBs would slide before they get close to taking the first hit but Cam Newton chugs along all the way to the endzone. Of course, I've seen some where he just walks in untouched too, but the hits that he does take seems as hard as a regular QB hit. They just seem to not get him easily cause he's so big.

yeah when he gets closer to the endzone he takes more hits because hes trying to get a TD but generally he doesnt take hits like that. as ShutDown said hes a very smart runner, he knows when to go down usually.

He also seems very full of himself. I wouldn't be surprised at all if character concerns finally derail his career and he never makes the jump from a Randall Cunningham-like athletic marvel to true elite QB.

what is this i dont even.

how is he full of himself? im genuninely curious about that.

billybeejr
12-15-2011, 06:34 AM
Most of Newton that I see are highlights and in a few highlights it seems that he does take hits, mostly when he's going for those TD runs in the redzone. Most QBs would slide before they get close to taking the first hit but Cam Newton chugs along all the way to the endzone. Of course, I've seen some where he just walks in untouched too, but the hits that he does take seems as hard as a regular QB hit. They just seem to not get him easily cause he's so big.

/Thread....

whatadai
12-15-2011, 10:19 AM
/Thread....

Funny...cause you do the same stuff with box scores and not only that...you "extrapolate" stats to show how good a player would be. Seriously...when did this forum get so many trolls. No wonder the forums feel a little dead now, allowing all these trolls to take over who think they know everything.

SchizophrenicBatman
12-15-2011, 10:31 AM
I'm going to deconstruct this post. The OP has already admitted he hasn't been able to watch Cam, and fair enough, the Panthers are not very exposed. So here's what is wrong (most of the post) and right:

I didn't think Cam Newton would do well in the NFL. The guy is an erratic passer and has shown it in the NFL. I admit that he's a much better passer than I thought though. I just want to gauge what people think since I'm not so sure myself. I pretty much want to gauge his long-term value. So I have a few questions...

Will he improve further? Will an actual off-season allow him to improve his passing and not run after his first read? Do they have the coaching staff for him to actually learn to be a better passer?

He still has a lot of room to improve. A good number of his flaws are covered up by playcalling - although, a number of those plays are called as a result of Newton's uncharacteristic attributes and will continue to be positives going forward. But in terms of what he needs to improve - footwork, consistency and urgency. He'll never be perfect in these areas but he can get a lot better.

Also, he doesn't run after his first read. He runs when the play is dead and he sees nothing. Sometimes this is after read one (depending on the play and situation - he has show a slight tendency to give up on plays early in key 3rd downs and later in games. FWIW he leads the NFL in 3rd down conversions on the ground) and sometimes it's after he's been sitting in the pocket for 10 seconds. Usually his "bail-out" play is throwing a checkdown, not lunging forward for 3 yards while he's getting tackled

How much of his running ability actually allows him to pass more easily since defenses will have to account for his running ability? He also runs like a full-back and the more you get hit the higher chance you'll have of getting injured, so if he does get injured with a small sprain where he could still stay in the game but not run, will he still be able to be an effective passer?

This is simply false. Newton goes to ground or runs OOB before he gets hit. His running ability opens up passing lanes (and running lanes for his RBs) but I don't see how this will change any going forward. If you don't spy him, he'll run on you. And even if you do, he'll probably run on you anyway

Legs seem to run out of steam before arms in the NFL...how long will it take for his legs to not help him anymore?

A while. He's still very young and has a well built body. And he has the arm talent to continue to succeed as he goes from 700 yard 15 TD rushing years down to 300, 5 type years. That is still a long ways off, however.

Is his passing currently looking a lot better just because he has Steve Smith? I mean, the guy made Delhomme look awesome. And what if Steve Smith retires in a few years? Carolina has pretty terrible management and hasn't been able to find a successor to Smith at WR. Will this make it more difficult for him?

Steve will make any QB look better than he is. Just like Randy Moss made Tom Brady into a 50 TD qb - Brady is still good, just not that good. I think Cam actually has a decent foundation now with Gettis (injured this year), Lafell (stepping up recently) and Olsen in terms of big targets with decent speed - a similar philosophy to the Chargers where the current coaching staff came from. None of those guys is good enough to be a #1, though and that will probably need to be addressed in the next couple years.

And does anyone think he will have a sophomore slump?

I expect his INTs will be down, his rushing TDs down, his passing TDs about the same, his comp% about the same maybe lower but his wins up. How you interpret that is up to you.

Brothgar
12-15-2011, 10:39 AM
Cam Newton has the ability to be a top 5 QB of all time. He had a good start to his career. I seriously laugh at people who say Tebow just wins games and Newton loses them as if the defense has nothing to do with either of those scenarios. What will happen is the same thing that always happens to QBs first year - great second year - Haters will yell haha I told you! Third year - ??? lets see if he can adjust. He will have to adjust to his O-Line going to crap. But his D should improve immensely when Beason returns and they invest a few day 2 picks to the D. The way I see it the long term value is very high with Cam Newton as I had said during the draft process he has all the ability in the world his ceiling is off the charts. Winning cures everything so the "character concerns" which are outrageously overblown won't mean a thing if the team is winning and aren't even close to bad enough to prevent the team from winning games.

ShutDwn
12-15-2011, 11:02 AM
Cam Newton has the ability to be a top 5 QB of all time. He had a good start to his career. I seriously laugh at people who say Tebow just wins games and Newton loses them as if the defense has nothing to do with either of those scenarios. What will happen is the same thing that always happens to QBs first year - great second year - Haters will yell haha I told you! Third year - ??? lets see if he can adjust. He will have to adjust to his O-Line going to crap. But his D should improve immensely when Beason returns and they invest a few day 2 picks to the D. The way I see it the long term value is very high with Cam Newton as I had said during the draft process he has all the ability in the world his ceiling is off the charts. Winning cures everything so the "character concerns" which are outrageously overblown won't mean a thing if the team is winning and aren't even close to bad enough to prevent the team from winning games.

I just think it's funny that Cam is suddenly a loser. Before the NFL he had won two championships (obviously one juco), he hadn't lost a game in two years and he'd never lost two in a row in his life.

As for attitude concerns, I'm not worried. People still base their views off stuff that happened a while ago instead of paying attention to what he's done recently.

http://www.bizjournals.com/charlotte/blog/queen_city_agenda/2011/12/cam-newton-wants-community-role.html


The guy wants to be the face of the franchise and he has great work ethic. It's amazing though, people hold old stuff against Cam yet nothing is said about Vick still having concerns.

jrdrylie
12-15-2011, 11:19 AM
Cam Newton has the ability to be a top 5 QB of all time.

We need to really slow down on the Newton love here. Yes he has been very good this season. But top-5 of all time potential? That is jumping way too far. Let's wait until he actually plays a few season before we start projecting like this.

Brothgar
12-15-2011, 11:33 AM
We need to really slow down on the Newton love here. Yes he has been very good this season. But top-5 of all time potential? That is jumping way too far. Let's wait until he actually plays a few season before we start projecting like this.

potential

poĚtenĚtial
noun
6.
a latent excellence or ability that may or may not be developed.

DraftSavant
12-15-2011, 11:34 AM
We need to really slow down on the Newton love here. Yes he has been very good this season. But top-5 of all time potential? That is jumping way too far. Let's wait until he actually plays a few season before we start projecting like this.

Discussing potential=projection.

jrdrylie
12-15-2011, 12:30 PM
potential

poĚtenĚtial
noun
6.
a latent excellence or ability that may or may not be developed.


I understand what potential is. And even on potential this is ridiculous. He has accuracy issues. He isn't going to be able to run like this forever. And teams are already starting to figure him out. There is no way I can see him ever being even close to the top-5 QB of all time.

SchizophrenicBatman
12-15-2011, 02:28 PM
He doesn't need to worry about his OLine going to crap because it is already crap. The only guy on the line who is any good is Kalil and even he has become overrated.

The losing this year can be contributed to everyone on the team - the defense, the QB, the kicker and the coaching staff. Cam certainly isn't blameless and he needs to curtail the turnovers late in games. I'm really not worried about it given his prior track record and the fact that going 5-11 is actually better than 7-9 at this point. If this becomes a consistent thing after a couple years, then you start to worry about it. 13 games in when he's playing on a team devoid of talent outside a few skill positions? Nah

robert pancake gallery
12-15-2011, 03:43 PM
how is he full of himself? im genuninely curious about that.

if he isn't full of himself then of whom is he full?

dj825
12-15-2011, 05:19 PM
if he isn't full of himself then of whom is he full?

hopefully hes full of Bacon

Sloopy
12-15-2011, 07:02 PM
I love this guy and I think he can be a great QB in this league, and while the definition of potential is what it is, I have a hard time projecting someone in their rookie season to be a top 5 all time QB.

Even if you were to extrapolate his stats (A very weak measure of prediction yet favorable to those predicting record breaking seasons etc) over an average career length I don't think that you have a top 5 QB of all time.

Could he be? Yes and good on him if he does but I think there remains a period of time before we start declaring him even a future HoF

billybeejr
12-15-2011, 07:35 PM
A lot of the critics seem to take the position that he has already reached his full potential and defenses are just going to adjust to what he does and 'figure him out'. As a huge Cam Newton fan, I am happy to say that's the opposite of what can happen. He still has so much room to improve. He doesn't even have a definite ceiling at this point. Cam Newton is a special player.

Sloopy
12-15-2011, 07:40 PM
A lot of the critics seem to take the position that he has already reached his full potential and defenses are just going to adjust to what he does and 'figure him out'. As a huge Cam Newton fan, I am happy to say that's the opposite of what can happen. He still has so much room to improve. He doesn't even have a definite ceiling at this point. Cam Newton is a special player.

This, this is why the guy was the first overall pick, he has a huge ceiling and definite ability.

He probably has not come close to his full potential, I just feel top 5 of all time is a bit premature

billybeejr
12-15-2011, 07:47 PM
You can't prematurely not have the potential to do something. You're confusing potential with what he has proven he can get himself to.

Iamcanadian
12-15-2011, 08:24 PM
I have no trouble predicting that within a year or 2, he will certainly be a top 5 QB among the current players. All time is something best left to when he is close to retirement.
He's going to get a lot better guys, those expecting a dropoff are kidding themselves. This guy is a hard worker, a really hard worker because he wants to be the best, add in his talent and look out.

ShutDwn
12-15-2011, 09:40 PM
I have no trouble predicting that within a year or 2, he will certainly be a top 5 QB among the current players. All time is something best left to when he is close to retirement.
He's going to get a lot better guys, those expecting a dropoff are kidding themselves. This guy is a hard worker, a really hard worker because he wants to be the best, add in his talent and look out.

This is his best attribute and why he could reach his full potential. His physical talent is there of course, but tons of players never reach it.

Cam has that attitude of he is defined by football and he is willing to do whatever it takes. He is the type of competitor where 'no' is not an answer for him. Look at how pissed he is after each loss. A lot of guys shrug it off and say that it wasn't their fault and treat it just as a job, like Vick admitted to in his early years. He'll learn how to control those emotions, but right now all the losing is probably getting to him.

Cam Newton is, as Bo Jackson put it, a bad man.