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No_
12-13-2011, 04:16 PM
Florida - I was raised on the Orange and Blue in the 90s. My dad went there and was a mega-fan. We got the weekly newspaper. We got the recruiting VHS tapes every spring. We bought Dillards bags to shake at the screen when Peter Warrick caught the ball. We even had one of those foamy bricks with the Gators logo that read "Bad Call" (any other fans grow up with something similar). Growing up with the Fun N' Gun was something I would never trade for anything. I knew nothing but success until that horrifying day when the Ol' Ball Coach announced he was going to coach the Redskins. I've been thinking a lot about the Zook years in relation to the rough past two years.

I'm not sure which is more troubling. The gators were totally mediocre by their standards during my middle & jr high days, the only thing to enjoy were the occasional upsets that Zook would pull out of his ass. But that felt like something that was going to blow over. The last two years - the decimation of coaching staffs, missuse of talent, weak play in the trenches, undisciplined play, and horrible skill players make saturdays a total bummer. I really feel that the current state is more depressing.

I know I'm spoiled as a Gators fan, but I was curious what other teams fans' have to say. Especially older Canes, Seminoles, Volunteers, Wolverines, Huskers, and Irish fans.

49erNation85
12-13-2011, 04:25 PM
Ah come on man our season wasn't that bad yes we had injuries but still. We are trying to learn a new style of offense and defense and get all that spread crap behind us. However, we did finish 6-6 got a bowl not bad. I just wish we would have plaid Driskel more in the end of the season but hey hes not ready but I'm sure he will be next fall and should be able to take the gators back into full swing and back to winning in no time. You are always going to have that learning curve .

jrdrylie
12-13-2011, 04:33 PM
I'm a Georgia Tech and UCF fan. The most depressive period for the Yellow Jackets was the Reggie Ball period. He showed great promise as a freshman. He had a good running game, good defense, and an all time great receiver. With all of that, he couldn't beat Georgia and couldn't win the ACC.

For UCF, this season was the lowest for me. The Knights had a great season last year. They won the conference, beat an SEC team in the bowl game, and had their first season being ranked in the final polls. There was some chatter that they could go undefeated and sneak into a BCS bowl. Instead, their C-USA Freshman of the year had a serious slump, and they didn't even make a bowl.

MassNole
12-13-2011, 04:56 PM
2006-Present

Well really 2005, but we somehow won the conference that year.

No_
12-13-2011, 05:06 PM
2006-Present

Well really 2005, but we somehow won the conference that year.

I remember being terrified of the Lee-Weatherford recruiting class, before it became a 'having two quarterbacks means you don't have one' situation. I really thought Xavier was going to become something

Brent
12-13-2011, 05:18 PM
Most of my school's history.

Smooth Criminal
12-13-2011, 08:59 PM
Might sound weird, but I don't know.

I wasn't an Ohio state fan till I decided to go there 4 years ago. And before that I didnt really follow college as a fan.

shylo3716
12-13-2011, 09:05 PM
http://www.centralohionews.com/ohiostate/football/season2002/gallery/fiestabowl/photo16.jpg

This did it for me SMH

Brent
12-13-2011, 09:08 PM
http://www.centralohionews.com/ohiostate/football/season2002/gallery/fiestabowl/photo16.jpg

This did it for me SMH
clearly pass interference ;D

Sloopy
12-13-2011, 09:10 PM
I'd probably say the John Cooper tenure...

CashmoneyDrew
12-13-2011, 09:13 PM
As a Vols fan... pretty much this whole decade. It all started in the '01 SEC championship game. Vols just had to win to make the national championship game and our crazy-talented team lays an egg and loses to a backup QB and LSU.

Ever since then it's been all down hill. Fulmer going out in flames, the hiring of He Who Must Not Be Named, our current coaching debacles, our streaks against putrid Vandy and Kentucky coming to a close.
Not to mention I personally witnessed that Music City Screw Job of a bowl game last year.

And then throw in the bad luck our basketball teams' had in recent years and that's just the icing on top of this whole ****-pie of a decade in Vols sports.

JRTPlaya21
12-13-2011, 09:42 PM
Well before I had my falling out with VT I'd say losing to Matt Ryan in the rain. VCU only has a club football team so I can't front lol. Always loved UGA because of family ties so I'd say with them losing to UF the year after storming the field plus that last season with A.J. Green where the record was abysmal.

keylime_5
12-13-2011, 09:59 PM
losing to Michigan every year in the '90s. Cooper won a lot of games and actually got us a Rose Bowl, but he could not freakin' beat Michigan. Most teams would take going to the Rose, Citrus, or Sugar Bowl every year though as their "most depressing era."

Pat Sims 90
12-13-2011, 10:01 PM
Anytime Ohio State loses to Michigan.

StickSkills
12-13-2011, 10:20 PM
It was 1999-2004, but now it's Nov 5, 2011 til whenever we're done with this s***

When everything broke, i literally didn't eat for a week and didn't go to class for two weeks. Then I was starting to come around and feeling better right as we went to Thanksgiving break. During break I was at the OSU-PSU got an underage from an undercover peacekeeper (wasn't drinking, but i was in the presence of and still drunk from night before), got kicked out of AFROTC and didn't go to classes for another week.

WMD
12-13-2011, 10:23 PM
http://thebiglead.fantasysportsven.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/08/rich-rodriguez.jpg

JHL6719
12-13-2011, 10:29 PM
The Bill Curry era sucked pretty bad when he replaced Ray Perkins. His tenure culminated with some moron throwing a brick through his windshield...

The worst however, was the Franchione-Mike Price debacle(s). The slimeball Franchione snuck out in the middle of the night to take the Texas A&M job.

Then we hired the idiot from Washington St. who was hanging out with strippers and fired before he even coached a single game for us.

Those two were easily the lowest points I've ever experienced...

critesy
12-13-2011, 11:03 PM
the end of tubbervilles career.

SickwithIt1010
12-13-2011, 11:05 PM
Just went through it. 2 years of seeing USC not playing for a bowl game, and without the fire that we have seen from them in the past hurt pretty bad. I was heartbroken when we lost Carroll.

This year I couldnt have been happier. Seeing them play with that swagger of the dominant USC teams from earlier in the decade was a sight to see.

soybean
12-13-2011, 11:12 PM
Just went through it. 2 years of seeing USC not playing for a bowl game, and without the fire that we have seen from them in the past hurt pretty bad. I was heartbroken when we lost Carroll.

This year I couldnt have been happier. Seeing them play with that swagger of the dominant USC teams from earlier in the decade was a sight to see.

Ill also say that 2009 season was just as painful too even before the sanctions. It's like I witnessed the end of a dynasty. Getting blown out by Stanford didn't help either.

JoeJoeBrown
12-13-2011, 11:47 PM
It was 1999-2004, but now it's Nov 5, 2011 til whenever we're done with this s***

When everything broke, i literally didn't eat for a week and didn't go to class for two weeks. Then I was starting to come around and feeling better right as we went to Thanksgiving break. During break I was at the OSU-PSU got an underage from an undercover peacekeeper (wasn't drinking, but i was in the presence of and still drunk from night before), got kicked out of AFROTC and didn't go to classes for another week.

Holy **** that's depressing. Hang in there.

scottyboy
12-13-2011, 11:49 PM
everything up until about 2004...

JoeJoeBrown
12-14-2011, 12:00 AM
Just went through it. 2 years of seeing USC not playing for a bowl game, and without the fire that we have seen from them in the past hurt pretty bad. I was heartbroken when we lost Carroll.

This year I couldnt have been happier. Seeing them play with that swagger of the dominant USC teams from earlier in the decade was a sight to see.

I haven't seen the word "swagger" used non-ironically for a long while now.

Thank you for brightening my Christmas.

SickwithIt1010
12-14-2011, 01:16 AM
I haven't seen the word "swagger" used non-ironically for a long while now.

Thank you for brightening my Christmas.

So many people use it out of context these days. I hate when people walk around saying "OMGZZZ I got so much swag" whatever man, get the **** out of here.

Those old USC teams had a swagger to them with the way they played, LSU's defense this year has a swagger to them.

Cigaro
12-14-2011, 07:59 PM
Although I wasn't old enough to follow the team for all of these years for South Carolina, the years between the death of the Man in Black, Joe Morrison, and the beginning of the Spurrier era, with Lou Holtz two Outback seasons being the only reprieve in between.

Sloopy
12-14-2011, 08:07 PM
losing to Michigan every year in the '90s. Cooper won a lot of games and actually got us a Rose Bowl, but he could not freakin' beat Michigan. Most teams would take going to the Rose, Citrus, or Sugar Bowl every year though as their "most depressing era."

My point exactly, people always act like it was a successful era, but really it was just enough every year to keep from getting canned.

Sloopy
12-14-2011, 08:08 PM
http://www.centralohionews.com/ohiostate/football/season2002/gallery/fiestabowl/photo16.jpg

This did it for me SMH

People still believe this wasn't PI ay? hahaha I thought most people were over that **** by now.

Grizzlegom
12-14-2011, 08:20 PM
Penn State - Right now.

RufusMcDaniel
12-14-2011, 08:41 PM
Besides Rich Rod.....

Armanti Edwards and Dennis Dixon...ugh, that kind of sucked.

2004-2010 sucked for one reason.

By hey, we beat Tebow in a bowl game, that's got to count for something.

BRAVEHEART
12-14-2011, 09:00 PM
http://www.usc.edu/dept/pubrel/trojan_family/autumn99/Athletics/Hackett.jpg

Paul....Hackett

cmarq83
12-14-2011, 09:09 PM
People still believe this wasn't PI ay? hahaha I thought most people were over that **** by now.

I have absolutely no dog in this fight, but that 100% was not pass interference.

dannyz
12-14-2011, 09:24 PM
http://bloximages.chicago2.vip.townnews.com/journalstar.com/content/tncms/assets/editorial/d/84/b6d/d84b6d7c-3218-55e9-a365-db3d773053ee.image.jpg

He did get Suh to come here though.

phlysac
12-14-2011, 09:33 PM
As a Pitt fan...

Probably today.

The last 13 months in general. 4 coaches in 13 months. Wow.

Sloopy
12-14-2011, 10:09 PM
I have absolutely no dog in this fight, but that 100% was not pass interference.

Og god here we go... Having debated this many times... go back and watch the replay. Sharpe clearly hooks Gamble with his right hand before the ball reaches Gamble.

Regardless of how many times people want to claim conspiracy theory or bad call because Terry Porter signaled holding before motioning for PI, the guy gave the wrong signal but the call was made to the letter of the rule.

The fact is that if Miami had stopped them on the ensuing 4 downs they would have won but they didn't, and thus it really doesn't matter.

JoeJoeBrown
12-14-2011, 10:43 PM
Og god here we go... Having debated this many times... go back and watch the replay. Sharpe clearly hooks Gamble with his right hand before the ball reaches Gamble.

Regardless of how many times people want to claim conspiracy theory or bad call because Terry Porter signaled holding before motioning for PI, the guy gave the wrong signal but the call was made to the letter of the rule.

The fact is that if Miami had stopped them on the ensuing 4 downs they would have won but they didn't, and thus it really doesn't matter.

Referee magazine said it was one of the greatest ref calls of all time. No kidding.

Also, if it had been officiated properly, the game wouldn't have made it to overtime anyways as OSU would have run out the clock on a first down that was called incomplete late in regulation.

cmarq83
12-15-2011, 08:42 AM
Og god here we go... Having debated this many times... go back and watch the replay. Sharpe clearly hooks Gamble with his right hand before the ball reaches Gamble.

Regardless of how many times people want to claim conspiracy theory or bad call because Terry Porter signaled holding before motioning for PI, the guy gave the wrong signal but the call was made to the letter of the rule.

The fact is that if Miami had stopped them on the ensuing 4 downs they would have won but they didn't, and thus it really doesn't matter.

Like I said I don't have a dog in this fight and really don't want to go back and forth debating with you. IMO no other referee would EVER have made that call. I can possibly see holding, but again no other ref would make that call in that situation. Everything was so incidental, and Gamble never really was "interfered" with. The hand that supposedly hooked Gamble was invisible to that ref anyways. From my viewpoint Gamble had a great shot at the ball, Sharpe broke it up, and Miami should have won.

Sloopy
12-15-2011, 10:15 AM
Like I said I don't have a dog in this fight and really don't want to go back and forth debating with you. IMO no other referee would EVER have made that call. I can possibly see holding, but again no other ref would make that call in that situation.

Are you INSANE? We see worse PI calls EVERY week at all levels.

Everything was so incidental, and Gamble never really was "interfered" with. The hand that supposedly hooked Gamble was invisible to that ref anyways.

So you were standing over the refs shoulder and knew what he saw? Or is this some magic bullet theory? CLEARLY HE COULDN'T SEE IT. IT MUST BE A CONSPIRACY

From my viewpoint Gamble had a great shot at the ball, Sharpe broke it up, and Miami should have won.

Would you be speaking of your viewpoint standing over the refs shoulder or where you watching it on TV like everyone else?

It doesn't matter that Gamble had a shot at the ball, in fact thats what makes it PI. If it was 10 feet over his head Sharpe could have tackled the **** out of him.

The fact is that Sharpe hooked his hip, refs look for certain things when your playing the receiver and one of the most clear ways to call it is if the defender hooks the receiver. It doesn't matter if Gamble could have gotten it anyways or if YOU claim the ref couldn't see it, the fact is that the call was made right, the game played out after the call and Ohio State won.

keylime_5
12-15-2011, 10:54 AM
http://www.robsts.com/shop/Poster.jpg

/discussion. can we get over this. people who know about refereeing have said that in hindsight the call was correct. can we not discuss this for the 1000th time since I've been on this board? we have established that it is not in the nature of miami fans to admit the call was right and vice versa with Ohio State fans.

Sloopy
12-15-2011, 10:56 AM
http://www.robsts.com/shop/Poster.jpg

/discussion. can we get over this. people who know about refereeing have said that in hindsight the call was correct. can we not discuss this for the 1000th time since I've been on this board?

Thank you haha I have a friend who is a raging Miami fan who brings it up at least 3 times a season... never admits that it was the right call... that bastard

cmarq83
12-15-2011, 11:08 AM
Are you INSANE? We see worse PI calls EVERY week at all levels.



So you were standing over the refs shoulder and knew what he saw? Or is this some magic bullet theory? CLEARLY HE COULDN'T SEE IT. IT MUST BE A CONSPIRACY



Would you be speaking of your viewpoint standing over the refs shoulder or where you watching it on TV like everyone else?

It doesn't matter that Gamble had a shot at the ball, in fact thats what makes it PI. If it was 10 feet over his head Sharpe could have tackled the **** out of him.

The fact is that Sharpe hooked his hip, refs look for certain things when your playing the receiver and one of the most clear ways to call it is if the defender hooks the receiver. It doesn't matter if Gamble could have gotten it anyways or if YOU claim the ref couldn't see it, the fact is that the call was made right, the game played out after the call and Ohio State won.

Dial the homer back bro and chill TFO. My point was that it was the deciding play in the national championship game. Most referees wouldn't call a ticky-tack (by any measure) pass interference penalty on that play. Yes we worse calls on a regular basis, but considering the nature of the play it's a downright ridiculous call to make.

It was my mistake on the flag, I thought the line judge threw it, but it was the back judge so I guess that point is moot. However, Sharpe got his head around, was playing the ball and Gamble straight up alligator armed the pass. The play was so incidental.

If this happened to OSU you'd be here arguing until you were blue in the face that this was a terrible call. It's the same thing with being a fan of the Pats and having the "Tuck Rule" situation happen, yes it was a fumble. The game turned out the way it did, but don't disparage Miami fans because YES they got screwed. Be happy about it and move on.

cmarq83
12-15-2011, 11:12 AM
/discussion. can we get over this. people who know about refereeing have said that in hindsight the call was correct. can we not discuss this for the 1000th time since I've been on this board? we have established that it is not in the nature of miami fans to admit the call was right and vice versa with Ohio State fans.

Ok I'm done, I don't really care enough. I guess we'll believe what we want to believe. It's really a matter of opinion. If that gets called then there should be about 4x the amount of calls in football. There is some basis for a call, but it shouldn't have been made.

Sloopy
12-15-2011, 11:37 AM
Anger in the face of being wrong, thats original...

So your point is that because it was the last play in a MAJOR game, the rules shouldnt be called to the rule, the way it should be all season? Okay, good point bro.

Your assuming im saying this because im a fan of OSU, that im a homer because it was the right call? Another great point.

Logic and rules be damned! Miami clearly should have won

killxswitch
12-15-2011, 11:54 AM
Every year is IU's most depressing year. In football anyway.

cmarq83
12-15-2011, 11:55 AM
Anger in the face of being wrong, thats original...

So your point is that because it was the last play in a MAJOR game, the rules shouldnt be called to the rule, the way it should be all season? Okay, good point bro.

Your assuming im saying this because im a fan of OSU, that im a homer because it was the right call? Another great point.

Logic and rules be damned! Miami clearly should have won

No, your entire point is that there was contact on a fade route inside 5 yards. If you think that is pass interference I'd like to show you every fade route in the past 10 years. Sharpe played him perfectly, he bumped him and allowed him to release to the outside. While the ball was in the air Gamble tried to cut across Sharpe who hadn't flipped his hips yet, contact was drawn which was incidental, and eventually Gamble got himself into a good enough position to make a play on the ball, he didn't make it.

Like any rule pass interference is admittedly vague. Since it is vague there are notable exemptions in situations that need to be taken into account. There is going to be contact with the ball in the air within 5 yards of the goal line on a fade route. A corner can't play off coverage because he's opening himself up to the slant, but at the same time the ball is almost immediately in the air. Referees need to consider the nature of the rule, because written rules aren't perfect. It's the same reason why Tom Brady fumbled even though his arm was going forward. Sharpe played that about as well as he could have in that situation, and there was contact that was pretty much unavoidable considering the nature of the play. In the end just let them play. Gamble had a chance at a ball that he probably should have had, but he couldn't come up with it. Let that be the end of it, there isn't a need to over ref a situation that didn't need it.

It was the national championship, and they threw a flag on contact that happens every time teams run that play. Miami fans should be upset, because they were in a sense the exemption to the unwritten rule. If fades were called the way that one is, why not just give teams 7 points every time they're within 10 yards because there is no way to not get a flag.

Sloopy
12-15-2011, 12:09 PM
Your just being ridiculous now. Whatever you want to say, sharpe hooked gambles hip. Yes, PI is vague but certain things will get it called every time and hooking is one of them.

Furthermore the best way to defend the back corner fade is to reroute the receiver at the LOS causing him to start further outside than he wants giving the QB a smaller window to throw into and the receiver less room to work with, then positioning yourself in between the receiver and the ball then timing your jump to get your hand in between the receivers and break it up. Sharpe played it less than perfect, was on the wrong side of the receicer and drew the PI with a hook

Sloopy
12-15-2011, 12:15 PM
Sorry stupid phone cut me off...

With Sharpes positioning, if Gamble had caught the ball and Sharpe tried to break it up he would have been playing through the body of the receiver, another PI call

cmarq83
12-15-2011, 12:22 PM
Your just being ridiculous now. Whatever you want to say, sharpe hooked gambles hip. Yes, PI is vague but certain things will get it called every time and hooking is one of them.

Furthermore the best way to defend the back corner fade is to reroute the receiver at the LOS causing him to start further outside than he wants giving the QB a smaller window to throw into and the receiver less room to work with, then positioning yourself in between the receiver and the ball then timing your jump to get your hand in between the receivers and break it up. Sharpe played it less than perfect, was on the wrong side of the receicer and drew the PI with a hook

NMvjADmxhVw

watch from 1:45

Watch how the play starts, Sharpe did exactly that, Gamble releases to the outside, and tries to cut across and get inside positioning because the QB had to throw it sooner than he wanted to. The thing is when Gamble tried to cut across he used his left arm to club Sharpe's shoulder. This made him lose his positioning, in a sense there was contact initiated by Gamble.

JoeJoeBrown
12-15-2011, 12:49 PM
NMvjADmxhVw

watch from 1:45

Watch how the play starts, Sharpe did exactly that, Gamble releases to the outside, and tries to cut across and get inside positioning because the QB had to throw it sooner than he wanted to. The thing is when Gamble tried to cut across he used his left arm to club Sharpe's shoulder. This made him lose his positioning, in a sense there was contact initiated by Gamble.

I'll take an association of professional referees position over yours. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2003_Fiesta_Bowl#The_Call)

I.e. you are wrong.

In the age before coaches' challenges and referee reviews were included within the NCAA rules, the call was subsequently validated by the National Association of Sports Officials,[13] and was also selected by Referee Magazine as one of the "Best 18 Calls of All Time."[14]

cmarq83
12-15-2011, 05:14 PM
I'll take an association of professional referees position over yours. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2003_Fiesta_Bowl#The_Call)

I.e. you are wrong.

In the age before coaches' challenges and referee reviews were included within the NCAA rules, the call was subsequently validated by the National Association of Sports Officials,[13] and was also selected by Referee Magazine as one of the "Best 18 Calls of All Time."[14]

Not that I don't love a reference from wikipedia about a magazine that you had never heard of before you needed it to support your argument, but the call is still questionable. If you look at the calls in that magazine they're all big time situations, which significantly narrows down the playing field. It's like how there are 100 schools in the Bloomberg Business Week top 100, but only 117 apply. You can say you have a top 100 business school in the country if your school ranks at 75, but really you're 75/117 and half the people ranking your school may have thought it sucked. If you look at the way the sampling was taken they ask about certain plays in particular stating: "In addition to being verifiably correct, the calls were selected based on prominence, difficulty, the stage on which they were made and their impact." meaning even if 40% of the refs polled thought they made the wrong call it still could have possibly made it into the magazine.

Not to mention that these are the same guys who defend the tuck rule and the Calvin Johnson play. They defend their own. It can be used as a piece of evidence to your argument, but it's in no way an end all to the debate.

The crux of the argument is that the interference occurred before the ball got there. That picture posted above isn't accurate because it shows a screenshot immediately after Gamble's blatant club to Sharpe. Before the ball got there Gamble had no route to the ball so with Sharpe on his inside hip he pushed Sharpe's shoulder and secured inside positioning. Sharpe, being unwilling to give up his positioning, stopped his momentum and held fast against Gamble. Any contact past that point was from a result of the club, and for the most part wasn't unreasonable. Sharpe made an effort to get his head around and play the ball. Gamble had a clear shot at it and didn't make the play. Given the nature of the play (National Championship-officials generally call less penalties towards the end of close games), the situation (fade route- officials are generally more lenient with contact), and the fact that Gamble wasn't really an innocent bystander they should have just let the play be.

Honestly most non-Miami/OSU fans are relatively split on this issue, and given the situation that it occurred in there probably shouldn't have been a flag since it's so questionable to begin with. I think the way the play turned out should have been acceptable to everyone. Nobody was completely innocent, yet Gamble had a shot at the catch, but didn't make it. Let the players decide the game on the field.

I can't believe I've spent this much time defending Miami as a BC fan. It's a little sickening to be honest.

scottyboy
12-15-2011, 05:18 PM
hi, my school invented the ******* sport, and we've never made a BCS game. Stop your complaining.

Don Vito
12-15-2011, 05:47 PM
I am an Ole Miss fan so take your pick. Now is a pretty good option for the Black Bears. ****.

Sloopy
12-15-2011, 06:42 PM
Not that I don't love a reference from wikipedia about a magazine that you had never heard of before you needed it to support your argument, but the call is still questionable. If you look at the calls in that magazine they're all big time situations, which significantly narrows down the playing field. It's like how there are 100 schools in the Bloomberg Business Week top 100, but only 117 apply. You can say you have a top 100 business school in the country if your school ranks at 75, but really you're 75/117 and half the people ranking your school may have thought it sucked. If you look at the way the sampling was taken they ask about certain plays in particular stating: "In addition to being verifiably correct, the calls were selected based on prominence, difficulty, the stage on which they were made and their impact." meaning even if 40% of the refs polled thought they made the wrong call it still could have possibly made it into the magazine.

Not to mention that these are the same guys who defend the tuck rule and the Calvin Johnson play. They defend their own. It can be used as a piece of evidence to your argument, but it's in no way an end all to the debate.

The crux of the argument is that the interference occurred before the ball got there. That picture posted above isn't accurate because it shows a screenshot immediately after Gamble's blatant club to Sharpe. Before the ball got there Gamble had no route to the ball so with Sharpe on his inside hip he pushed Sharpe's shoulder and secured inside positioning. Sharpe, being unwilling to give up his positioning, stopped his momentum and held fast against Gamble. Any contact past that point was from a result of the club, and for the most part wasn't unreasonable. Sharpe made an effort to get his head around and play the ball. Gamble had a clear shot at it and didn't make the play. Given the nature of the play (National Championship-officials generally call less penalties towards the end of close games), the situation (fade route- officials are generally more lenient with contact), and the fact that Gamble wasn't really an innocent bystander they should have just let the play be.

Honestly most non-Miami/OSU fans are relatively split on this issue, and given the situation that it occurred in there probably shouldn't have been a flag since it's so questionable to begin with. I think the way the play turned out should have been acceptable to everyone. Nobody was completely innocent, yet Gamble had a shot at the catch, but didn't make it. Let the players decide the game on the field.

I can't believe I've spent this much time defending Miami as a BC fan. It's a little sickening to be honest.

I haven't read the article so I won't comment on it, but just because you can explain some scenario which lessens it's validity does not make it so. Unless you can show that the scenario you just explained played out then your just building a strawman.

No offense but your argument is probably one of the more moronic ones I've ever heard in this debate and I've had many of them....

The "crux" of your argument is that because it was a major deciding play on a huge stage, the rule shouldn't have been called. I cannot disagree with you more, your argument that PI is vague/ticky tacky etc. would only be perpetuated if refs were to call certain plays differently. A rule should be called the same way from the first play of the season all the way until the last one of the NC game. By your definition Sharpe should have been able to flat out tackle Gamble but it shouldn't have been called because it was the last play.

I'd be more inclined to respect your opinion if you were trying to say that it wasn't PI like most people who oppose the call do. I can't even begin to fathom the logic behind not making a call by the rule because it was the last play of a NC game. Even if refs call less penalties usually, it doesn't mean that they don't call any. If there was PI on the play and the ref saw it yet didn't throw the flag, your essentially cheating the players and the fans.

Regardless of what explanation that you want to give for why Sharpe hooked him, it doesn't matter as the hook is clear PI regardless of situation.

Your argument that the ball wasn't there yet is ludicrous and shows your clear lack of knowledge of PI as a rule, PI can occur at any point while the ball is in the air.

cmarq83
12-15-2011, 07:25 PM
Most of what you said has very little to do with my argument at all. The points that were made were:

1) During a play of that importance the referees better be damn sure they're making the right call before they threw the flag. Huge hesitation there, and by any measure certainly not a blatant play by any stretch of the imagination. If the BJ was unsure then for the love of god don't throw the flag.

2) There is contact in any fade route after the ball is thrown. Both players are operating in a small space, and the ball is thrown almost immediately. Regardless of how the rule is stated there is generally an understanding on how to call that play or else there would be grounds for PI on virtually any fade route.

3) Gamble initiated contact with his left arm. It's clear as day in the video at 1:45.
It's a push off and by rule OPI.
"Initiating contact with a defender by shoving or pushing off thus creating a separation in an attempt to catch a pass."-Illegal

That was equally as ticky-tack as Sharpe's transgression, but is pass interference nonetheless. Without it he had absolutely no route to the ball because Sharpe had played him perfectly. If he had simply gone to the ball and tried to run through Sharpe because Sharpe wasn't looking at the ball at the time, then yes there is grounds for pass interference, but he physically rerouted Sharpe and Sharpe having lost his positioning because of the push off held his ground. There is contact, but there wouldn't have been without Gamble's push off. At that point there has been contact from both parties so either offset, or let the play go because the play actually had a really legitimate shot at going either way.

Sloopy
12-15-2011, 07:38 PM
Most of what you said has very little to do with my argument at all. The points that were made were:

1) During a play of that importance the referees better be damn sure they're making the right call before they threw the flag. Huge hesitation there, and by any measure certainly not a blatant play by any stretch of the imagination. If the BJ was unsure then for the love of god don't throw the flag.

2) There is contact in any fade route after the ball is thrown. Both players are operating in a small space, and the ball is thrown almost immediately. Regardless of how the rule is stated there is generally an understanding on how to call that play or else there would be grounds for PI on virtually any fade route.

3) Gamble initiated contact with his left arm. It's clear as day in the video at 1:45.
It's a push off and by rule OPI.
"Initiating contact with a defender by shoving or pushing off thus creating a separation in an attempt to catch a pass."-Illegal

That was equally as ticky-tack as Sharpe's transgression, but is pass interference nonetheless. Without it he had absolutely no route to the ball because Sharpe had played him perfectly. If he had simply gone to the ball and tried to run through Sharpe because Sharpe wasn't looking at the ball at the time, then yes there is grounds for pass interference, but he physically rerouted Sharpe and Sharpe having lost his positioning because of the push off held his ground. There is contact, but there wouldn't have been without Gamble's push off. At that point there has been contact from both parties so either offset, or let the play go because the play actually had a really legitimate shot at going either way.

I see what your saying about the club and your not wrong that it could have been called that way however I would venture to say that this is where your cancel out theory would come into play as it was past 5 yards and Sharpe had his hands on Gamble still so the club essentially got Sharpe's hand off of him.

I understand contact on a fade route but the fact is that this still comes down to the hook on the hip. Which is not common in any play as you are told pretty much straight up as a defender if you hook a part of the receivers body you are going to get PI called on you.

The fact that their was hesitation implies to me that the ref actually considered not throwing it as you would claim he should have yet decided after a moment of contemplation that it had to be thrown. It won't be the first play where flags come in late on PI.

The fact is that it can be argued until all of us are dead, but you cannot deny that Sharpe hooked him with his right hand, this is a well known cause for a PI flag to be thrown in any situation and thus I have to agree with the call.

cmarq83
12-15-2011, 07:59 PM
The fact is that it can be argued until all of us are dead, but you cannot deny that Sharpe hooked him with his right hand, this is a well known cause for a PI flag to be thrown in any situation and thus I have to agree with the call.

I guess I can live with that.

I guess it comes down to me is how the fade was called. That is not where Krenzel wanted to go with the ball, and had the play developed appropriately Krenzel would have thrown it closer to the back of the endzone and Gamble would have had a jump ball contest with Sharpe. However, Gamble accepted a relatively free release to the outside trying to do this. The contact up to that point had been within the flow of the play. Nothing Sharpe had done to that point IMO had done anything to truly interfere with Gamble.

From what I saw any contact that really had any major bearing on the play came from the point after the club. I think it was pretty much a bump and guide up to that point. Had Gamble kept his arms down and just tried to get to the ball from his position he probably could have got a legitimate PI call. However, he used a pushoff to get an advantage and all the contact from there is a moot point.

It just doesn't make sense to me to call the play like that with any consistency, because if what Sharpe did isn't allowed, how do you stop that play?

Sloopy
12-15-2011, 08:20 PM
It just doesn't make sense to me to call the play like that with any consistency, because if what Sharpe did isn't allowed, how do you stop that play?

It definitely isn't easy defending anything on the goal line, thats to be assured. The way the game is these days the offense is always at an advantage.

Now if you want to talk to me about how I think the rule itself is full of crap I'm with you all day on it, it clearly needs more definition and refs have been known to claim that it is one of the hardest calls they make in any game. Damned if you do damned if you don't really.