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J-Mike88
12-20-2011, 05:08 PM
I noticed there wasn't even a thread last week for the KC game. Even we overlooked them. And got bit.
Not gonna happen again this week.

Depending on what happens with SF @ Seattle Saturday night, our game Sunday night might have no meaning to us.

I hear Da Bears are going to start Josh McNown. I still love McNown for letting us make the playoffs on the season's final play:

a_QzwbZJyFg

SuperPacker
12-20-2011, 06:05 PM
Rodgers should be given at most a half of action! We cant let him get beat up by Julius Peppers and co the whole game. The Offensive Line is gonna look something like Newhouse-DeitrichSmith-Wells-Sitton-Lang which will leave Peppers one on one with Newhouse. Just the thought of that scares me!

CheeseKnuckles
12-20-2011, 07:02 PM
I'll be there... and hopefully Marshall Outhouse can block, but I won't put my money on it. He is god awful and responsible for Sherrod's leg being broken.

J-Mike88
12-20-2011, 09:19 PM
Jared Allen, 7 sacks.
Jason Pierre-Paul, 4 sacks.
Tamba Hali, 3.5 sacks.....

Any one sack could take Rodgers out. I don't want Peppers' sacks to be on Rodgers.

If Rodgers plays, I want Crabtree or Ryan Taylor to chip the hell out of Peppers from the outside, and make Marshall hold him from the inside.

cvv84
12-23-2011, 11:15 AM
Jared Allen, 7 sacks.
Jason Pierre-Paul, 4 sacks.
Tamba Hali, 3.5 sacks.....

Any one sack could take Rodgers out. I don't want Peppers' sacks to be on Rodgers.

If Rodgers plays, I want Crabtree or Ryan Taylor to chip the hell out of Peppers from the outside, and make Marshall hold him from the inside.

Dude didn't have a single sack on us. Allen had 3, not 7.

J-Mike88
12-23-2011, 01:11 PM
Dude didn't have a single sack on us. Allen had 3, not 7.
And even as Minnesota's Jared Allen (four sacks in two games) and New York's Jason Pierre-Paul (six pressures) wreaked havoc, Rodgers had the last laugh. The rest of the Vikings team stunk, and Rodgers threw for 369 yards and four touchdowns to finish the Giants.
Accurate stats aside (pressures not sacks), we need to protect Rodgers better and I really hope Clifton can return, and return to form.
He did a great job on James Harrison in XLV, and we'll be facing some great edge rushers on that side in the playoffs and hopefully Super Bowl.

cvv84
12-24-2011, 09:48 PM
Checking back on this... I don't think we even overlooked the Chiefs. It was pretty much how I expected us to lose - when our offense didn't show up.

Lets face it our defense blows. I don't want to hear about Jenkins and I don't want to hear about Walden. It Capers. He isn't utilizing our guys as well as he did last year. Our blitz packages are dull and predictable. Clay is left in the same position 95% of the time which limits his effectiveness in this vanilla defense.

Guys also aren't playing up to their abilities. Raji, Hawk, and Pickett are guys that have barely made an impact this year after having good seasons a year ago. This defense has regressed drastically and it isn't because we lost 1 player.

As it stands right now, we have 20 less sacks than a season ago. The defense is the sole determinator of our success. If they don't step up its going to be a short run in defending our title.


These next 2 games will be a huge indicator of how this team will fare come playoff time. We need to win and get that 1st round bye. That HUGE for us. Watching the Lions today and their offense just tear it up it scary how well they match up with us.

BloodBrother
12-25-2011, 02:36 AM
The D isn't good but they've been forcing turnovers all year long. Best in the NFL at it and it's clearly their main strength. Giving this offense more possessions is a back breaker for opposing teams

of course, we see what happens when they don't force turnovers AND the offense barely is on the field...they lose.

This is a must win game because they need to wrap this #1 seed up. Bears are beaten and battered and will be without Cutler, Forte, Barber, Knox and possibly Hester. They have NOTHING left on offense and after the game against the Chiefs I would expect the Pack to be ready to go

win this game, get that HFA locked up, then look towards the playoffs. Week 17 vs DET would be meaningless as they already wrapped up a playoff berth as well

J-Mike88
12-25-2011, 06:53 AM
Lets face it our defense blows. I don't want to hear about Jenkins and I don't want to hear about Walden. It Capers. Our blitz packages are dull and predictable.
Not entirely. There's only so much a DC can do. Case-in-point, rewatch some of the plays from last week's game, and focus away from the ball.
Opening drive of the game, Chiefs ran for 1, ran for 1, had 3rd & 8. Capers sneaks Morgan Burnett in off the edge and he goes unaccounted for, bee-lines right at Orton. But Slim Shields simply falls down, leaves his guy wide open less than a second into the play on the left sideline for a huge early conversion.

This defense has regressed drastically and it isn't because we lost 1 player.
True, the defense has regressed drastically. But we lost 2 key players, not just 1. Cullen Jenkins was a huge loss up front, where it starts. But Nick Collins was another huge loss in the back end. He covered up for a lot of mistakes and gambles back there (Woodson and Tramon gamble as much as anyone, except possibly Asante Samuel). Peprah doesn't have that same speed, or anticipation that Collins did, plus Collins knew the scheme better from more playing time.

A key guy up front and in the back can make a big difference.

As it stands right now, we have 20 less sacks than a season ago. The defense is the sole determinator of our success. If they don't step up its going to be a short run in defending our title.

These next 2 games will be a huge indicator of how this team will fare come playoff time. We need to win and get that 1st round bye. That HUGE for us. Watching the Lions today and their offense just tear it up it scary how well they match up with us.
Yeah, 47 sacks last year at this time, 27 now.
Hawk and Bishop... hopefully they can start to pick their times to blitz up the middle and get home. But not needing to double-team Jenkins makes that harder. They can single any of the other DL now.

As for the next 2 games being huge indicators..... personally as long as we win tonight vs the Bears 3rd string offense, we should sit everyone next week against the Lions, as Arizona did against us 2 years ago.

Unless the Lions pull off an upset at New Orleans or San Fran, or maybe at the NY Giants, we won't see them again anyway. Don't care anyway. We play our game, we get a bit better play on defense, and we can repeat.

I'm still torn between who I think poses a bigger threat to us in ice cold late January, the Saints or Niners.

cvv84
12-25-2011, 01:28 PM
Not entirely. There's only so much a DC can do. Case-in-point, rewatch some of the plays from last week's game, and focus away from the ball.

Opening drive of the game, Chiefs ran for 1, ran for 1, had 3rd & 8. Capers sneaks Morgan Burnett in off the edge and he goes unaccounted for, bee-lines right at Orton. But Slim Shields simply falls down, leaves his guy wide open less than a second into the play on the left sideline for a huge early conversion.


He's not using ALL our guys properly. Its been 14 games and he STILL isn't changing things up and adjusting.

True, the defense has regressed drastically. But we lost 2 key players, not just 1. Cullen Jenkins was a huge loss up front, where it starts. But Nick Collins was another huge loss in the back end. He covered up for a lot of mistakes and gambles back there (Woodson and Tramon gamble as much as anyone, except possibly Asante Samuel). Peprah doesn't have that same speed, or anticipation that Collins did, plus Collins knew the scheme better from more playing time.

A key guy up front and in the back can make a big difference.

We sucked on defense even WITH Collins in the backend. Its the pressure that we aren't getting with the front 7. Jenkins is good but look who he blitzes this year. Usually its only 1 blitzer which 5 offensive lineman to block 4 guys.

J-Mike88
12-25-2011, 06:42 PM
We sucked on defense even WITH Collins in the backend. Its the pressure that we aren't getting with the front 7. Jenkins is good but .....
Dude come on, Collins only played 1 game, against Brees and the Saints.

He still forced that one & only turnover of that game on Colston, which proved to be the difference.

Newton was on fire in week 2 when Collins went down. He cleary would have made a difference compared to Peprah back there.

He's sorely missed, as is Jenkins of course.

Agree that Capers can surely do more though.

cvv84
12-25-2011, 07:17 PM
Dude come on, Collins only played 1 game, against Brees and the Saints.

He still forced that one & only turnover of that game on Colston, which proved to be the difference.

Newton was on fire in week 2 when Collins went down. He cleary would have made a difference compared to Peprah back there.

He's sorely missed, as is Jenkins of course.

Agree that Capers can surely do more though.

I disagree. And as I stated I don't even believe our problem is in our secondary, its our front 7. With our without Collins we'd be in the same predicament IMO. The lack of pressure and Capers inability to make adjustments have been the sole weakness of this team.

cvv84
12-25-2011, 08:16 PM
More terrible calls by Capers. This D is getting blown up by backups. No pressure, terrible tackling.


And FINALLY there's a play. Clay with a great read on the screen. Hey are we figuring out that teams are running a TON of screens on us??

J-Mike88
12-25-2011, 08:59 PM
This defense is atrocious even though the Bears only have 3 points tonight.

Our award-winning offense has THREE 3 & Outs tonight, but our defense has not forced one, against that horseshit of an offense.

They've moved the chains all night long, luckily for us the one gift to Matthews, a missed FG, and one play by Hawk thru the gap to stuff them.

TOP and field position are important and forcing punts early helps. I'm seeing big holes, guys manhandled on the DL for us, and seeing Hawk and Bishop take wrong lanes on running plays......

I think Neal is out right, again? Hard to tell the difference though, but if he is out, I think we only have 4 DL guys suited up... poor Raji is going to get worn out fast.

cvv84
12-25-2011, 09:06 PM
There it is again. The pressure can't get there, they hit the open receiver, and the poor tackling leads to a big play. This is not a championship team. Just wait until next week when we face an elite QB and an elite WR.

I think Neal is out right, again? Hard to tell the difference though, but if he is out, I think we only have 4 DL guys suited up... poor Raji is going to get worn out fast.

Why just Neal? Where has Raji, Green, Wilson, and Wynn been? Pickett has been invisible all season long (yes I know he isn't playing)

TimmG6376
12-25-2011, 09:35 PM
So'oto sighting

J-Mike88
12-25-2011, 09:41 PM
So'oto sighting
Capers is sick to death of Walden, Zombo, Jones simply not able to beat a crappy blocker in J'Marcus Webb.....

So'oto came in, and good things happened.

cvv84
12-25-2011, 09:44 PM
Capers is sick to death of Walden, Zombo, Jones simply not able to beat a crappy blocker in J'Marcus Webb.....

So'oto came in, and good things happened.

About time. Hard to believe that Jones was being activated over him.


About time our offense breaks this game open. The ****** part is the amount of yards our defense gave up to backups and our inability to generate sacks. So far we've been shut out 2 games in a row.

J-Mike88
12-25-2011, 09:45 PM
5 TD's now for Rodgers, that ain't bad.
Did you guys see the stats on throws to Jordyzzz?
It's like a perfect 154 passer rating, and that's on the season.... before that TD pass to him.

Not bad for our #2 WR.

cvv84
12-25-2011, 09:52 PM
Here we go again, build a lead then Capers shifts to a soft zone defense and lets them march down the field.

J-Mike88
12-25-2011, 09:57 PM
Atrocious defense, but at least it took off half the quarter.
Speed the clock out,,,, I only want to get out of this game with everyone still healthy. Put it on fast-mode.

Woodson and Burnett both went to the FB on that TD, leaving he TE uncovered. Nice.....

J-Mike88
12-25-2011, 09:58 PM
I wish we had some scrubs we could put in to save our good guys.

Why doesn't the NFL let the league expand the roster sizes, active numbers?
This game is brutal, like car accidents.

TimmG6376
12-25-2011, 11:10 PM
So'oto seem to have a positive effect initially, but he needs to settle down out there. He is so jumpy at the line of scrimmage he telegraphs his rushes.

Offense had a lull after the quick start but overall a nice bounce back game. The Bears front 4 has the ability to put on pressure and the make shift offensive line held up fairly well. Still looking for the running game to get going. Seems like Starks got screwed on the run calls tonight. Let the guy get going north-south instead of stretch plays and delayed handoffs.

princefielder28
12-25-2011, 11:11 PM
i was at the game tonight and it was one of the more enjoyable games i've ever gone to...Jones 1st TD and Jordy's 2nd TD both resulted in Lambeau Leaps and I got my hands on Jones but couldn't quite get to Jordy

now onto what we saw on the field...same old story really

BloodBrother
12-26-2011, 04:17 AM
The D is great at forcing turnovers and that's what they will need to continue to do from here on out

the front 7 just CANNOT win their one-on-one battles and they generate little to no rush or push a majority of the time. It is what it is and nothing is going to change that. So'oto getting more snaps, even Lattimore(who I saw out there at least once) aren't going change things so drastically

this is what they are stuck with through the playoffs. Next draft they sorely need to add depth on the DL(DE) and find a freakin OLB worth a damn. WAlden was atrocious today. He has no moves and just overpursues to the point he completely wipes himself out of the play and opens up a huge lane for the RB's to get an easy 4 yards before a Packers is anywhere near him

AJ Hawk sucks, period. That extension doesn't look good now. Peprah continues to be a liability in coverage. Add in that Tramon, Raji and Clay aren't having seasons like they did last year and this is the result

they are middle of the pack in points against...which is the definition of mediocre, but it's GOOD ENOUGH with this offense. Great thing is that in the redzone the D plays better. The condensed field really helps them. They need to continue to force turnovers and hold teams to 3. Not the best recipe, but they are 14-1 with it so far

TimmG6376
12-26-2011, 04:50 PM
"The best defense is a good offense"; this is the story of the 2011 Green Bay Packers. They can be run on but in all but one game this season the offense has put up enough points to take the opposition out of their gameplan.

I agree that it is unrealistic to expect someone to come out of nowhere (So'oto/Lattimore) to rescue the pass rush at this point. I liked that they got snaps, as to me that shows that Capers is getting fed up with the play he's getting out of Walden/Zombo. Perhaps this will mean they'll finally address this position in the offseason.

I severely underestimated the importance of Ryan Pickett. The DL wasn't great before, but these last two games without him have been atrocious. We need him for his run D and to help limit Raji's snaps.

I was supportive of the Hawk extension at the time but again I have to agree that it is looking like last season was more an aberration than him turning the corner. Francois/Smith should be pushing him for snaps, but I doubt the coaches will do it.

This is the result of relying on UDFA or street FAs at OLB and putting all the DE eggs in the Neal basket. Who knows if he was healthy maybe it is a different story, but the depth behind him was obviously misjudged. Waiting until the 7th round to draft a defensive lineman and completely ignoring OLB has proven to be a mistake.

J-Mike88
12-26-2011, 06:59 PM
Did we give Hawk more money than Cullen Jenkins got?

Would this team be better defensively with Cullen than Hawk?

cvv84
12-26-2011, 07:53 PM
Man some of you guys are so hung up on the 'what ifs'

What if we didn't pay Hawk? So we'd keep Barnett who had been injury prone the last few seasons he was here?

What if we kept Jenkins? There's no denying his talent but again, his lengthy injury history and age made him a risky sign.

What about Kampman? Brandon Jackson?

Its a calculated risk of how guys will perform and you have to take the good with the bad.

In all honestly I think we actually do have a talented defense, but they just aren't playing up to their capabilities and aren't being put in position to succeed. We know they're our biggest liability but we knew that weeks ago - and we're 14-1.

J-Mike88
12-26-2011, 08:14 PM
I think we actually do have a talented defense, but they just aren't playing up to their capabilities and aren't being put in position to succeed.
Eric Walden
Frank Zombo
Vic So'oto
Jarius Wynn
CJ Wilson
Howard Green
Charlie Peprah

These guys are all important guys on this defense, and none of them are more than just "guys". They aren't talented... any team could have had any of them if they wanted them.

It's no wonder why you blame Capers for everything if you consider this defense talented.

There's Matthews and Woodson.
Tramon has been burnt a lot this year.
Raji is talented, but only with a good guy next to him like Jenkins.

cvv84
12-26-2011, 08:34 PM
Eric Walden
Frank Zombo
Vic So'oto
Jarius Wynn
CJ Wilson
Howard Green
Charlie Peprah

These guys are all important guys on this defense, and none of them are more than just "guys". They aren't talented... any team could have had any of them if they wanted them.

It's no wonder why you blame Capers for everything if you consider this defense talented.

There's Matthews and Woodson.
Tramon has been burnt a lot this year.
Raji is talented, but only with a good guy next to him like Jenkins.

You couldn't be more wrong - yet again.

Zombo and So'oto have rarely played this year. Both were depth to begin the year. Zombo was depth from last year.

Wynn is a situational guy. Wilson hasn't built on his solid season from a year ago.

Green again is a rotational guy while Peprah was thrust into action due to injuries.

Fact is guys like Pickett, Raji, Matthews, Hawk, Tramon, and Shields weren't/have not played up to the level that they were playing last season and we aren't running the same blitz packages either.

BloodBrother
12-27-2011, 07:00 AM
Yep. The talent is there as evidenced by the amount of turnovers they force. This isn't like the Pats D that has little to nothing on the defensive side, the Packers actually have some top tier players in Woodson/Tramon/Raji/Clay Matthews etc

problem is quite a few of these guys just aren't having the same seasons they had last year. Wynn/Wilson haven't improved last year to next...in fact they regressed. Neal has been doing next to nothing but since he's missed all year and has admitted that his knee still hurts him I guess you can say that he isn't 100% and likely wont' be at all the rest of this season

Bishop is good at ILB, can't cover worth a damn but is stout vs the run. Seriously need another legit DE and OLB. Walden/So'oto/Lattimore/Zombo/Brad Jones....none of these guys are the answer. I mean, up front you have Pickett and Raji. Raji takes on double teams so he doesn't generate as much pressure and pickett obviously isn't going to bring any pressure. That leaves Wynn/Wilson/Neal as the main guys up front to get to the QB and they have failed horribly at it.

TimmG6376
12-27-2011, 09:58 AM
Interesting that Zombo was a healthy scratch vs the Bears. I think they are trying to get So'oto and Lattimore some live action just in case they are forced into the lineup in the playoffs. I expect we'll see them get a lot of snaps in the Lions game.

TimmG6376
12-27-2011, 11:53 AM
There is talent. The secondary is actually very talented despite their ranking. Obviously Clay is an All Pro.

The deficiencies are really at DL and OLB (excluding Clay).

Only Raji and Pickett are starter quality. Green, Wilson, Wynn are guys that should be rotating in to give the starters a breather not in the starting lineup on a regular basis. Jury is still out on Neal.

Same with Walden, Zombo, and Jones. All should be backups not starters. I'll give So'oto and Lattimore a break as they are rookies and not much outside of special teams contributions should be expected of them on a SB defending roster. The coaches obviously expected a step forward from either Walden or Zombo and haven't gotten it. Maybe you can blame injuries for Zombo's disappearance, but as I just mentioned he was a healthy scratch against Chicago in a game they needed to win to secure home field advantage.

CheeseKnuckles
12-27-2011, 01:19 PM
If Lattimore and So'oto work hard this offseason and improve, I expect Zombo/Jones/Walden to be gone. Of those 3 maybe Zombo gets another chance, but I highly doubt it. I'm guessing OLB will be addressed in rounds 1-3 in the draft. I also think it might be addressed more than once. I guess only time will tell, but right now opposite Matthews Zombo/Jones/Walden are all disappointing.

TimmG6376
12-27-2011, 04:15 PM
If Lattimore and So'oto work hard this offseason and improve, I expect Zombo/Jones/Walden to be gone. Of those 3 maybe Zombo gets another chance, but I highly doubt it. I'm guessing OLB will be addressed in rounds 1-3 in the draft. I also think it might be addressed more than once. I guess only time will tell, but right now opposite Matthews Zombo/Jones/Walden are all disappointing.

I don't think all three will be gone. McCarthy values LBs and TEs for special teams. Depending on the draft one or two of those guys will probably be back. If I had to guess I'd say Zombo and Jones. Something in my gut is telling me they are losing faith in Walden. They keep pulling him in an attempt to light a fire under his ass and he isn't responding.