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View Full Version : How Good is Dre Kirkpatrick?


Breed
12-24-2011, 03:49 PM
Is he as good as Claiborne? What are his negatives? Most mocks have him going top 5, is he the Revis type? What are the chances he falls in the mid teen range?

SickwithIt1010
12-24-2011, 03:58 PM
Is he as good as Claiborne? What are his negatives? Most mocks have him going top 5, is he the Revis type? What are the chances he falls in the mid teen range?

Ive never seen him in the top 5....and he is not on the same level as Claiborne. Claiborne is a better pure corner than PP was a year ago. Kirkpatrick is a big, physical corner...not elite speed but hes not slow.

jsagan77
12-24-2011, 09:51 PM
He's better than Claiborne IMO, but not by much. Claiborne gets a lot more hype because of his big time plays in big games and Kirkpatrick has been injured but make no mistake Kirkpatrick is every bit the prospect Claiborne is and I'd imagine a lot of clubs have them as the 1A 1B depending on who fits their scheme better.

BuddyCHRIST
12-25-2011, 12:06 PM
He's better than Claiborne IMO, but not by much. Claiborne gets a lot more hype because of his big time plays in big games and Kirkpatrick has been injured but make no mistake Kirkpatrick is every bit the prospect Claiborne is and I'd imagine a lot of clubs have them as the 1A 1B depending on who fits their scheme better.

Are you sure your not getting Claiborne confused with TM7? Claiborne is unquestionably better than Kirkpatrick on the field. Kirkpatricks size gives him a special quality but he's not near the player of Claiborne. I think he's the best corner prospect in some time.

Bengals78
12-25-2011, 12:13 PM
Kirkpatrick will thrive or die depending on the team in front of him. He just strikes me as the type who will absolutely flourish on a team with a good pass rush that plays a physical coverage scheme.

I dont know if I buy into him in a pure zone scheme because I question his "instincts" at times and he uses his size/athleticism to make up for it at Alabama.

JBCX
12-25-2011, 04:16 PM
Why would the Eagles spend a first round pick on CB?

SickwithIt1010
12-25-2011, 04:19 PM
Why would the Eagles spend a first round pick on CB?

They wouldnt? Why would you even ask that?

Buc Baller12
12-26-2011, 01:43 AM
a lot of mocks have him going to tampa; idk about taking the 2nd best player at a position within the top 7

shylo3716
12-26-2011, 06:05 AM
a lot of mocks have him going to tampa; idk about taking the 2nd best player at a position within the top 7

Why not! That's what I call pre-contradiction, because if QB was your #1 priority this year, you would not hesitate to want to take RG3.

BuddyCHRIST
12-26-2011, 06:29 AM
a lot of mocks have him going to tampa; idk about taking the 2nd best player at a position within the top 7

i'll agree that this logic doesn't make much sense.

ATLDirtyBirds
12-26-2011, 07:56 AM
a lot of mocks have him going to tampa; idk about taking the 2nd best player at a position within the top 7

He'd be a very nice fit in Tampa.

JBCX
12-26-2011, 10:25 AM
They wouldnt? Why would you even ask that?

They have enough CBs right now. They're not going to blow a first round pick on one in this draft. Maybe a 2nd rounder, but not a 1st rounder.

shylo3716
12-26-2011, 11:23 AM
They have enough CBs right now. They're not going to blow a first round pick on one in this draft. Maybe a 2nd rounder, but not a 1st rounder.

Jenkins? Hosley?

Matthew Jones
12-26-2011, 12:06 PM
Kirkpatrick might end up being even better than Antonio Cromartie in the NFL; Dre deserves to go in the top 10. Very tall and long-limbed with a good press at the line; surprisingly active and physical in run support. Height will allow him to cover some of the freakish wide receivers that have been entering the NFL in recent years.

Matthew Jones
12-26-2011, 12:07 PM
Jenkins? Hosley?

The Buccaneers have been running a lot more man coverage than in years past so Hosley wouldn't be a great fit; Jayron will probably be a late second-rounder. Janoris Jenkins has the man coverage skills to succeed in Tampa Bay but it's fair to ask whether they'd draft another headcase; there are quite a few thugs on the team already.

shylo3716
12-26-2011, 12:14 PM
The Buccaneers have been running a lot more man coverage than in years past so Hosley wouldn't be a great fit; Jayron will probably be a late second-rounder. Janoris Jenkins has the man coverage skills to succeed in Tampa Bay but it's fair to ask whether they'd draft another headcase; there are quite a few thugs on the team already.
3X60mrYO1UU

brat316
12-26-2011, 12:15 PM
Jenkins? Hosley?

On the Eagles they right now on contract have Aso, Asante, Marsh, Hanson.

shylo3716
12-26-2011, 12:27 PM
On the Eagles they right now on contract have Aso, Asante, Marsh, Hanson.

Please give up on projecting 1st CBs to us. We would select a WR before CB in the 1st.

BaLLiN
12-26-2011, 12:52 PM
On the Eagles they right now on contract have Aso, Asante, Marsh, Hanson.

Rodgers-Cromartie is a RFA/UFA?

Edit: just looked it up, rotoworld says he's signed until 2013

http://www.rotoworld.com/player/nfl/4715/dominique-rodgers-cromartie

brat316
12-26-2011, 12:52 PM
Please give up on projecting 1st CBs to us. We would select a WR before CB in the 1st.

you never know. Look at the Giants when they picked JPP.

shylo3716
12-26-2011, 12:56 PM
you never know. Look at the Giants when they picked JPP.

http://rlv.zcache.ca/i_may_be_wrong_but_i_doubt_it_tshirt-p235682829049400911zvyip_400.jpg

brat316
12-26-2011, 01:00 PM
Rodgers-Cromartie is a RFA/UFA?

Edit: just looked it up, rotoworld says he's signed until 2013

http://www.rotoworld.com/player/nfl/4715/dominique-rodgers-cromartie

I thought he was. Well I stand corrected. Now they won't have to, unless they deal one of the three.

Iamcanadian
12-26-2011, 10:48 PM
Possible top 10 pick in this weak draft although 11-20 range more likely. Depends what his 40 time is at the combine. If he is fast enough, he'll go top 10 but is clearly second to Claiborne at this point in the draft process.

Miaoww
12-26-2011, 10:50 PM
Possible top 10 pick in this weak draft although 11-20 range more likely. Depends what his 40 time is at the combine. If he is fast enough, he'll go top 10 but is clearly second to Claiborne at this point in the draft process.

Legal troubles aside would you take him over J. Jenkins?

Iamcanadian
12-26-2011, 10:58 PM
Legal troubles aside would you take him over J. Jenkins?

Without knowing their 40 times, it is very difficult to project a CB to the NFL.
Sure, if you remove Jenkins questionable decisions which led to his dismissal from Florida, he might be challenging Claiborne for the #1 spot. But the reality is pro scouts and GM's aren't going to ignore it so he won't be going before Kirkpatrick. Tremendous talent though.

ellsy82
12-27-2011, 12:26 AM
He'll be a starting CB on any team he goes to. If I were a team like the Jets, with vested starters on either side...I'd put him as a starting FS and nickle corner on sub-packages.

ellsy82
12-27-2011, 12:29 AM
He'll be a starting CB on any team he goes to. If I were a team like the Jets, with vested starters on either side...I'd put him as a starting FS and nickle corner on sub-packages.

Wilson definitely isn't that guy.

D-Unit
12-27-2011, 01:49 PM
How do you guys grade his hip fluidity?

shylo3716
12-27-2011, 02:00 PM
How do you guys grade his hip fluidity?

Brandon Harris was donned by Deion himself, as the best CB to have hip flexibility last year and you see where he went SMH.

K Train
12-27-2011, 02:24 PM
i think he is anothe malcolm jenkins....could probably play corner on some teams, will likely be drafted to a corner needy team but an eventual shift to FS would do him very well....never liked him as the top CB (even before the mo claiborne hype train, which im on now btw)

he could play CB on the steelers (which is what i said about jenkins and other tweeners like aaron williams) but his best fit will probably be at FS.

D-Unit
12-27-2011, 02:27 PM
i think he is anothe malcolm jenkins....could probably play corner on some teams, will likely be drafted to a corner needy team but an eventual shift to FS would do him very well....never liked him as the top CB (even before the mo claiborne hype train, which im on now btw)

he could play CB on the steelers (which is what i said about jenkins and other tweeners like aaron williams) but his best fit will probably be at FS.
That's where I was getting at. I was wondering if some teams wouldn't draft him as a Safety.

AntoinCD
12-27-2011, 02:31 PM
That's where I was getting at. I was wondering if some teams wouldn't draft him as a Safety.

I think someone will draft him as a CB with the fall back option that he could be a damn good safety. I like Kirkpatrick in man coverage, especially bump and run. I don't think he'll ever be the type to stick with Desean Jackson but his size would help against bigger WRs who aren't as shifty.

Dallas strikes me as a team where he could flourish as either a CB or safety. Cincinnati too.

K Train
12-27-2011, 02:36 PM
i would think some will....mostly cause hes pretty big for a corner and his skill set clearly leans safety....im having a hard time pegging his value though, in several ways...both against this years corner class and previous years corner classes. teams have to be getting used to seeing these college CBs have to move to S in the pros though its happening more and more and its not a bad thing, they just cant be stubborn

This year you have dre, clai, dennard, minnifield, gilmore, hosley, jenkins. To me hes the 4th corner on that list but easily the number one safety in the draft in a pretty dismal class. Hell hes only really competing with his own team mates barron and lester and tj mcdonald for the top safety spot which he wins easily imo.

AntoinCD
12-27-2011, 02:47 PM
i would think some will....mostly cause hes pretty big for a corner and his skill set clearly leans safety....im having a hard time pegging his value though, in several ways...both against this years corner class and previous years corner classes. teams have to be getting used to seeing these college CBs have to move to S in the pros though its happening more and more and its not a bad thing, they just cant be stubborn

This year you have dre, clai, dennard, minnifield, gilmore, hosley, jenkins. To me hes the 4th corner on that list but easily the number one safety in the draft in a pretty dismal class. Hell hes only really competing with his own team mates barron and lester and tj mcdonald for the top safety spot which he wins easily imo.

McDonald is returning, Lester is a mid to low second rounder and I have always thought Barron was tremendously overrated so...yeah he would be my number 1 safety pretty easily

Leon Sandcastle
12-27-2011, 03:42 PM
People thought Aaron Williams was a Safety last year and he's played great at CB so far in his career.

DraftSavant
12-27-2011, 06:43 PM
People thought Aaron Williams was a Safety last year and he's played great at CB so far in his career.

New York has also been heavily dependent on zone defense this year.

That's where the line will be drawn with Kirkpatrick. The Cover 2 and Cover 6 teams will likely value him as a squat corner. Heavy man teams will probably like him at safety, even if they try him out as a nickel or outside corner to begin with.

hockey619
12-27-2011, 06:43 PM
a lot of teams are looking for more tweener guys who can be that important piece of a big nickel package. cover a TE but not be a liability in the run game. His size and willingness to play physical make him a good fit for that kind of role but im not too sure just a thought that kinda popped in there.

JBCX
12-27-2011, 07:04 PM
a lot of teams are looking for more tweener guys who can be that important piece of a big nickel package. cover a TE but not be a liability in the run game. His size and willingness to play physical make him a good fit for that kind of role but im not too sure just a thought that kinda popped in there.

That's a good point.

I wonder if he could be part of a new generatin of "hybrid" LB/CB types that can cover the TE up the seam and also provide support in the run game.

Somebody is going to have to start developing players to combat the Jimmy Grahams, Rob Gronkowskis of the NFL.

Iamcanadian
12-29-2011, 10:53 AM
Kirkpatrick will be a very solid NFL CB. He isn't nearly as big as Alabama is listing him. He'll probably check in at 6'2", 192lbs.
He has exceptional movement skills and instincts. Both zone and man to man defenses will covet his skill set as he appears to have the complete package, and he is one of the best tackling CB's to come down the pipe in years.

CB's in the NFL average twice the pay, Safeties make and there is a reason for it. CB's cover #1 and #2 WR's man to man and need exceptional skill to play the position, Safeties either cover RB's or TE's or double team WR's by playing over the top of them on deep patterns. They are rarely asked to cover a WR man to man, hence they don't require the skill set a CB must possess.

People who talk about switching CB's to Safety rarely know what they are talking about. First, any player with CB talent, won't make the switch because it will effect his pay scale considerably when he becomes a FA, only CB's who absolutely cannot handle man to man coverage will ever accept that kind of switch.

Kirkpatrick will play CB in the NFL, I don't expect to see him at Safety till possibly late in his career.

DraftSavant
12-29-2011, 11:04 AM
Kirkpatrick will be a very solid NFL CB. He isn't nearly as big as Alabama is listing him. He'll probably check in at 6'2", 192lbs.
He has exceptional movement skills and instincts. Both zone and man to man defenses will covet his skill set as he appears to have the complete package, and he is one of the best tackling CB's to come down the pipe in years.

CB's in the NFL average twice the pay, Safeties make and there is a reason for it. CB's cover #1 and #2 WR's man to man and need exceptional skill to play the position, Safeties either cover RB's or TE's or double team WR's by playing over the top of them on deep patterns. They are rarely asked to cover a WR man to man, hence they don't require the skill set a CB must possess.

People who talk about switching CB's to Safety rarely know what they are talking about. First, any player with CB talent, won't make the switch because it will effect his pay scale considerably when he becomes a FA, only CB's who absolutely cannot handle man to man coverage will ever accept that kind of switch.

Kirkpatrick will play CB in the NFL, I don't expect to see him at Safety till possibly late in his career.

Your condescending nature is beginning to irritate me.

I've never seen a corner with such elite "movement skills" (whatever the **** that cliche'd word vomit means) get burned as much him over the course of a college career.

I also have a pretty strong feeling there's a sharp pay difference between elite safeties and average corners in favor of the safeties.

AntoinCD
12-29-2011, 11:10 AM
Kirkpatrick will be a very solid NFL CB. He isn't nearly as big as Alabama is listing him. He'll probably check in at 6'2", 192lbs.
He has exceptional movement skills and instincts. Both zone and man to man defenses will covet his skill set as he appears to have the complete package, and he is one of the best tackling CB's to come down the pipe in years.

CB's in the NFL average twice the pay, Safeties make and there is a reason for it. CB's cover #1 and #2 WR's man to man and need exceptional skill to play the position, Safeties either cover RB's or TE's or double team WR's by playing over the top of them on deep patterns. They are rarely asked to cover a WR man to man, hence they don't require the skill set a CB must possess.

People who talk about switching CB's to Safety rarely know what they are talking about. First, any player with CB talent, won't make the switch because it will effect his pay scale considerably when he becomes a FA, only CB's who absolutely cannot handle man to man coverage will ever accept that kind of switch.

Kirkpatrick will play CB in the NFL, I don't expect to see him at Safety till possibly late in his career.

Really? Because the last I checked most professional athletes have a high opinion of themselves. How many are going to admit they can't make it at CB.

Truth is, if a head coach or defensive cooridnator says to a rookie, you're going to be playing safety for us, then they're going to be playing safety.

DraftSavant
12-29-2011, 11:14 AM
Really? Because the last I checked most professional athletes have a high opinion of themselves. How many are going to admit they can't make it at CB.

Truth is, if a head coach or defensive cooridnator says to a rookie, you're going to be playing safety for us, then they're going to be playing safety.

Agreed. See: Jenkins, Malcolm.

Like Jenkins, he'll play the nickel role for a year most likely and then will get moved to safety. He's not going to be able to run with elite NFL WRs in man. Not to mention, I'd want him filling the alley in run support from the safety spot anyways. Dude's a beastly run supporter and very good in pursuit.

But nah, he's not a safety. The NFL Network guys haven't said so. If they do, maybe I'll change my mind.

descendency
12-29-2011, 11:26 AM
I don't see a shutdown corner when I watch him. I see #2 at CB. I don't really know where he will be as a safety or how good.

DBNYDP
12-29-2011, 12:27 PM
I think you guys are making Kirkpatrick to be much slower than he is. He might have some problems keeping up with some of the faster guys in the league but that doesn't mean he still can't be a very good corner. We've seen slower corners have plenty of success in the league, and there is no reason for me to think that Kirkpatrick can't have that same success. He's a physical corner, who has good ball skills, plays with solid technique, and has experience in different types of coverages.

DraftSavant
12-29-2011, 12:31 PM
I think you guys are making Kirkpatrick to be much slower than he is. He might have some problems keeping up with some of the faster guys in the league but that doesn't mean he still can't be a very good corner. We've seen slower corners have plenty of success in the league, and there is no reason for me to think that Kirkpatrick can't have that same success. He's a physical corner, who has good ball skills, plays with solid technique, and has experience in different types of coverages.

I think his straight-line speed is fine enough, and he'll do well in the 40, but his change of direction and short area speed leaves a lot to be desired.

I don't think he'll be a bad corner. He'll be fine there so long as you don't have wild Revis/Asomugah expectations and you protect him accordingly (as such, how high is his draft value at corner then, really?).

That being said, I think he could be a perennial Pro Bowler at the safety spot.

HeavyLeggedWaistBender
12-29-2011, 01:00 PM
I'll say it again, when I watch him I see Charles Tillman. I also see Charles Tillmans career which is very good to the team he's on but outside of them the league won't know much about him. (Also, every training camp people talk about CTs impending move to Free Safety that never comes.)

I like Tillman, but I wouldn't draft him top 10.

DraftSavant
12-29-2011, 01:02 PM
I'll say it again, when I watch him I see Charles Tillman. I also see Charles Tillmans career which is very good to the team he's on but outside of them the league won't know much about him. (Also, every training camp people talk about CTs impending move to Free Safety that never comes.)

I like Tillman, but I wouldn't draft him top 10.

That's actually a pretty good comparison.

Again, the Cover 2 teams and Cover 6 teams will absolutely love him at corner. The heavy-man teams will likely see a safety, but will try him out as a corner first.

Matthew Jones
12-29-2011, 01:06 PM
Kirkpatrick is easily athletic enough to stick at cornerback. Why project a player to a position they've never played before that early in the first round?

SenorGato
12-29-2011, 01:51 PM
That's a good point.

I wonder if he could be part of a new generatin of "hybrid" LB/CB types that can cover the TE up the seam and also provide support in the run game.

Somebody is going to have to start developing players to combat the Jimmy Grahams, Rob Gronkowskis of the NFL.

Mark Barron.

Well...I think he could give the job a run for it's money.

Kirkpatrick is a good CB prospect. Not sure where I'd rank him, but I'm extremely high on the big three 'Bama DBs...particularly Barron.

AntoinCD
12-29-2011, 01:54 PM
Mark Barron.

Well...I think he could give the job a run for it's money.

Kirkpatrick is a good CB prospect. Not sure where I'd rank him, but I'm extremely high on the big three 'Bama DBs...particularly Barron.

Even if Barron doesn't take a horrible angle to the ball both Gronk and Graham would make him their *****.

I think Barron is overrated and has been his whole time at Bama. I do like Kirkpatrick though

SenorGato
12-29-2011, 01:59 PM
Even if Barron doesn't take a horrible angle to the ball both Gronk and Graham would make him their *****.

I think Barron is overrated and has been his whole time at Bama. I do like Kirkpatrick though

Love Barron as a prospect...People are sleeping on him and the overrated thing died a long time ago. He's going to be a player.

AntoinCD
12-29-2011, 02:03 PM
Love Barron as a prospect...People are sleeping on him and the overrated thing died a long time ago. He's going to be a player.

Never been a huge fan. Here's a souting report I done of him I posted in the Pats forum because we need safeties badly. Fell free to comment or disagree but I'm happy with what I have seen


Positives:

-Prototypical size for a safety these days. Will measure in at around 6'2 215lbs.
-Good straight line speed for a player his size.
-Big hitter and will intimidate WRs from going across the middle of the field.
-Extremely well coached and played his whole collegiate career in an NFL styled defense.
-Understands zone concepts well and can read the QBs eyes,
-Played and excelled against elite competition.
-Great work ethic and leader of a defensive backfield that will produce multiple NFL players

Negatives:

-Can play indisciplined at times. Will bite on play action and misdirection plays.
-Too often will try for the knockout hit instead of wrapping up.
-Will not be effective in man coverage at the next level.
-Probably isn't able to be a true centrefielder limiting his versatility(SS only???)
-At times will rely on his athletic ability and therefore take poor angles to the ball. Two great examples are in last year's games against Arkansas and Auburn.

Overall:

I'm not the biggest fan of Barron. I always thought he was a tad overrated and see him more of a solid second round player. He has a lot of tools that NFL teams will love. For the Patriots I can understand why everyone is putting him there. I just don't like the fit. I'm not sure there is much of a difference between Barron and Chung and the Patriots can not afford to have two players without ideal coverage ability on the field at the same time.