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Scotty D
12-27-2011, 08:41 PM
Brees is making a late season push. This has been Rodgers award for the better part of the season but now there may be some competition. So has the loss to the Chiefs and Brees breaking the record changed your opinion? What about a Co-Op MVP? Is there another player that should be considered?

http://i.imgur.com/Sq21T.png
http://i.imgur.com/MjGte.png

PoopSandwich
12-27-2011, 08:43 PM
Any normal year either one of them would be a no-brainer... This happens to be the year where two players are having some of the best years a QB has ever had.

soybean
12-27-2011, 08:47 PM
other than the yardage record though, there's nothing Drew Brees has (measurable) that is better than rodgers.

rodgers has wins, tds, td:int ratio, qb rating, yards per attempt.

Even though Brees broke the record I don't see anything that you can put over rodgers. So the real question is: is ~400 yards the qualifier for the award?

TimmG6376
12-27-2011, 08:49 PM
If you knock Rodgers for the loss to KC, what do you do with the 3 INTs Brees threw against TB in a loss and the 2 INTs he threw in the loss to the Rams?

Sure Brees has ~400 more yards but Rodgers has more TDs and half the INTs. Brees has had a great season and in any other year would be the MVP, but unfortunately Rodgers has just done better.

PackerLegend
12-27-2011, 08:52 PM
Its still Aaron Rodgers. He has won offensive player of the month 4 times in a row. Nobody has ever won it 4 months in a row. Barry Sanders is the only player who ever won it 3 months in a row. Brees record is nice but everybody is throwing for an insane amount of yards. Even Cam Newton is going to go for over 4000. Rodgers is also likely to break Peyton Mannings single season passer rating.

You cant go wrong with either but I still think it should be Rodgers. Just because the Packers lost 1 game everybody acts like Brees is more deserving now.

TACKLE
12-27-2011, 08:57 PM
Alex Rodriguez.
A-ROD

Saints-Tigers
12-27-2011, 08:57 PM
other than the yardage record though, there's nothing Drew Brees has (measurable) that is better than rodgers.

rodgers has wins, tds, td:int ratio, qb rating, yards per attempt.

Even though Brees broke the record I don't see anything that you can put over rodgers. So the real question is: is ~400 yards the qualifier for the award?

He's going to break the record for most completions in a season, highest completion percentage in a season(which he already owns), and the Saints offense will probably break the record for most yards ever in one season.

I wonder what Brees' numbers would look like if our defense wasn't dead last in turnovers forced(the Pack is first I believe). Probably more TDs and less yards?

DeepThreat
12-27-2011, 09:04 PM
It has to be Rodgers. Brees has been great, but Rodgers has been even better.

prock
12-27-2011, 09:05 PM
I'm personally not that impressed anymore by passing yardage statistics. Rodgers, no brainer. And I ******* hate that guy.

A Perfect Score
12-27-2011, 09:13 PM
It's pretty clearly Aaron Rodgers at this point. The guy is operating on a level that is absolutely unheard of in the NFL. That QB rating is insane.

ElectricEye
12-27-2011, 09:14 PM
I'm personally not that impressed anymore by passing yardage statistics. Rodgers, no brainer. And I ******* hate that guy.

That's where I'm at too, minus the hating Rodgers haha. In order for passing yardage to have any effect on my opinion as to who is the better overall player, it would have to be something crazy different. With how easy it is to pass the ball in the NFL today, it's really surprising that the record even lasted as long as it did.

Crazy_Chris
12-27-2011, 09:31 PM
I think it's pretty clearly Aaron Rodgers, Brees does have a significant amount more yards. But that isn't a big deal considering he has thrown the ball 122 more times.

jsagan77
12-27-2011, 09:38 PM
The forgotten one, Tom Brady. W/o him that team may not win a game.

BigBanger
12-27-2011, 09:39 PM
He's going to break the record for most completions in a season, highest completion percentage in a season(which he already owns), and the Saints offense will probably break the record for most yards ever in one season.

I wonder what Brees' numbers would look like if our defense wasn't dead last in turnovers forced(the Pack is first I believe). Probably more TDs and less yards?

There is a really strong case for Brees. But Rodgers is the best player in the NFL. I wonder how much better Rodgers would be if he had the two best guards in the NFL in front of him and stable of a RBs that catch a ton of short easy passes. Or if he lead the NFL in pass attempts. He'd probably have less pressure in his face and a higher completion % with more completions and more yards.

Both are surrounded by great talent and great weapons. There's no need to act like Rodgers' defense is padding his stats.

Its Rodgers. And its not close. As great as Brees has been, it's not close.

descendency
12-27-2011, 09:40 PM
I'm sticking with Rodgers.

And I'm still saying he wins by less than 5 votes, Brees is second, and Tom Brady is within 10 votes of the MVP.

Brodeur
12-27-2011, 11:59 PM
Peyton Manning.

CDCB14
12-28-2011, 12:10 AM
Cristiano Ronaldo.

http://liga.es/wp-content/uploads/2010/04/cristiano_ronaldo_real_madrid_2009-7.jpg

Scotty D
12-28-2011, 12:16 AM
Who has the better supporting cast?

MetSox17
12-28-2011, 12:41 AM
Rodgers and it's not really close. Brees will feel how Culpepper did in 04.

DraftSavant
12-28-2011, 12:48 AM
Not saying he's deserving of a vote or anything, but Matt Stafford could possibly end up having the quietest 40 TD season ever.

ElectricEye
12-28-2011, 12:56 AM
Not saying he's deserving of a vote or anything, but Matt Stafford could possibly end up having the quietest 40 TD season ever.

When you put it into perspective; that's insane for a 23 year old. Granted, he's throwing to Megatron...but still, god damn.

Caulibflower
12-28-2011, 01:38 AM
The Lions falling apart, Suh going berserk and everyone thinking Schwartz is a douchebag undoubtedly are what people think of and probably distracted from Stafford's season. If they'd simply gotten into the playoffs without all the other junk, all anyone would be talking about is how Stafford was emerging as a leader and elite QB, and I don't think there's any way in that scenario Manning would still get the nod over him. Except, of course, that Manning is in a huge market and has a ton of fans voting for him.

Saints-Tigers
12-28-2011, 01:48 AM
There is a really strong case for Brees. But Rodgers is the best player in the NFL. I wonder how much better Rodgers would be if he had the two best guards in the NFL in front of him and stable of a RBs that catch a ton of short easy passes. Or if he lead the NFL in pass attempts. He'd probably have less pressure in his face and a higher completion % with more completions and more yards.

Both are surrounded by great talent and great weapons. There's no need to act like Rodgers' defense is padding his stats.

Its Rodgers. And its not close. As great as Brees has been, it's not close.


I never said Rodgers was padding his stats. I was saying there is a lot more than "just the yards record" to Brees.

Philliez01
12-28-2011, 01:55 AM
Not saying he's deserving of a vote or anything, but Matt Stafford could possibly end up having the quietest 40 TD season ever.

Yup and 42 of them were to Calvin Johnson.

AntoinCD
12-28-2011, 07:07 AM
It has to be Rodgers. Although it's been a great year for QBs. When you think back at some years when no one really had a great year and then look at this year and think that multiple players are having historically good years.

I said this in Beer Baron's thread yesterday. Tom Brady is on pace for over 5220 yards, 40 TDs and 12 INTs and won't get a single vote. But when compared to Aaron Rodgers' season you see why.

Saints-Tigers
12-28-2011, 11:42 AM
It's ok AntoinCD, the Saints have the best offense in the league 4 of the 6 Brees has been here, and he's really never going to come close to sniffing an MVP, with a total of 1 pro bowl weapon (Graham).

All you hear about is how lucky Brees is to have all the weapons the Saints have. We'll just continue to move parts, lose guys to injury, shift personnel, and still move the ball better than anyone.

AntoinCD
12-28-2011, 12:30 PM
It's ok AntoinCD, the Saints have the best offense in the league 4 of the 6 Brees has been here, and he's really never going to come close to sniffing an MVP, with a total of 1 pro bowl weapon (Graham).

All you hear about is how lucky Brees is to have all the weapons the Saints have. We'll just continue to move parts, lose guys to injury, shift personnel, and still move the ball better than anyone.

Brees should have won it 2 years ago instead of Manning. And the pro bowl is a joke. Colston should have gone before.

tjsunstein
12-28-2011, 01:03 PM
Still goes to Aaron Rodgers. I can't see the case for anyone over Rodgers, co-mvp maybe. But Rodgers will get some sort of credit.

Ness
12-28-2011, 01:18 PM
I think it should easily be a case of Co-MVP.

tjsunstein
12-28-2011, 01:23 PM
I think it should easily be a case of Co-MVP.

Easily? You think Brees has been as impressive as Rodgers this year? The same season that nfl personnel have been calling possibly one of the best in history? I don't see it aside from the yards.

NY+Giants=NYG
12-28-2011, 01:25 PM
AR! 100% think he deserves it this year.

AntoinCD
12-28-2011, 01:26 PM
Easily? You think Brees has been as impressive as Rodgers this year? The same season that nfl personnel have been calling possibly one of the best in history? I don't see it aside from the yards.

You could easily argue that three QBs are having one of the best seasons ever. Brees not only has the yards but he also has over 40 TDs to only 13 INTs. I agree that Rodgers should be the MVP though. Rodgers has been slightly better than Brees who is ever so slightly better than Brady.

tjsunstein
12-28-2011, 01:29 PM
You could easily argue that three QBs are having one of the best seasons ever. Brees not only has the yards but he also has over 40 TDs to only 13 INTs. I agree that Rodgers should be the MVP though. Rodgers has been slightly better than Brees who is ever so slightly better than Brady.

Brees has 41 TDs on the year, Rodgers has 39 more TDs than INTs this year. 45:6

AntoinCD
12-28-2011, 01:34 PM
Brees has 40 TDs on the year, Rodgers has 39 more TDs than INTs this year. 45:6

I'm not disagreeing that Rodgers should be the MVP and brought that exact point up in another thread. But I don't think Rodgers has been miles ahead of the rest of the pack as some are making it out to be. A realistic arguement can be made for Brees and to an extent Brady and when you can legitimately argue someone's point it means it isn't easily cut and dry

Saints-Tigers
12-28-2011, 01:37 PM
Touchdowns without context is fun though. Not saying Rodgers isn't MVP, but the "zomg touchdowns" thing is getting kinda old

RaiderNation
12-28-2011, 02:00 PM
Co-MVP is what I would lean toward. Both these guys are having career years and have played lights out in many situations. If Rodgers and the Packers go after Brady's TD record, then I would give it to Rodgers. I doubt they do though with all the injuries they have they might just pack it in after half time.

jackalope
12-28-2011, 02:45 PM
Rodgers has more TDs, less than half the picks, and is a full yard per attempt better. Also, two more wins including one over Brees. Outside of yards, I don't know what the argument is for Brees. Great season for Brees, but I think a definitively better one for Rodgers.

NY+Giants=NYG
12-28-2011, 03:01 PM
Brees has 41 TDs on the year, Rodgers has 39 more TDs than INTs this year. 45:6

Not only that, they go out of their way to pad the living daylights of his stats! It's no surprise he leads the NFL in passing attempts as well. AR, last time I checked, was in the middle, and still putting up the numbers.

AR by a landslide. If you guys went out of your way to do what NO does with brees, this thing would be insane. AR would have more than 50 TDs.

Saints-Tigers
12-28-2011, 03:02 PM
Rodgers has more TDs, less than half the picks, and is a full yard per attempt better. Also, two more wins including one over Brees. Outside of yards, I don't know what the argument is for Brees. Great season for Brees, but I think a definitively better one for Rodgers.

Higher completion percentage and took less sacks, despite more pass attempts.

Record breaking offense in terms of yards after this week maybe?

There are quite a few things he's done better, but the Saints haven't gotten the ball into the endzone as well.

Anyone have numbers like 3rd down conversion % on passes, redzone % on passes, touchdown percentage(like how many touchdowns over the number of possessions)?

soybean
12-28-2011, 03:19 PM
Higher completion percentage and took less sacks, despite more pass attempts.

Record breaking offense in terms of yards after this week maybe?

There are quite a few things he's done better, but the Saints haven't gotten the ball into the endzone as well.



None of that is a qualifier of why he should be given the MVP over Rodgers.

You look at the important stats, those are all that matter and all that should matter for the award not some relatively obscure stat.

Also, anyone who says it should be co-mvp think about it. You're telling Aaron Rodgers his season is/was equaled by Drew Brees, which isn't true at all.

Saints-Tigers
12-28-2011, 03:21 PM
None of that is a qualifier of why he should be given the MVP over Rodgers.

You look at the important stats, those are all that matter and all that should matter for the award not some relatively obscure stat.

Also, anyone who says it should be co-mvp think about it. You're telling Aaron Rodgers his season is/was equaled by Drew Brees, which isn't true at all.


Nothing is a "qualifier" for MVP. The only stat that matters is WINZZZ?

cmarq83
12-28-2011, 03:31 PM
I think it's pretty clearly Rodgers at this point. The man has had an outstanding season. I think Brees will pull it off at some point, and the next time Brees has a statistically comparable season with other MVP candidates he'll get it. He was certainly deserving a couple of years ago when he was genuinely robbed.

Rodgers statistically has had all time great numbers. I don't think he'll ever get over 120 QB rating again though. This season was like a perfect storm for him. Relatively good health on that side of the ball, and if you look at the schedule he played a schedule of absolutely pathetic defenses. Not to take anything away from Rodgers, but it's not like he's a slam dunk for every MVP award in the near future though. I think Brees will win one in the next 2 seasons. The numbers are hard to deny for this long.

Ness
12-28-2011, 04:39 PM
Easily? You think Brees has been as impressive as Rodgers this year? The same season that nfl personnel have been calling possibly one of the best in history? I don't see it aside from the yards.

Yeah. I mean you have Brees who just broke the single season for yards passed. That's huge. And he's on record to break the completion record again right? Rodgers is also having one of the best seasons in NFL history. Both players have doing remarkable things at quarterback. I just can't lean fully towards one direction. The only thing I could probably hang over Drew Brees is that he plays in a dome, and Rodgers doesn't. But regardless, Brees is still having one of the best seasons in NFL history.

J-Mike88
12-28-2011, 04:50 PM
I wonder what Brees' numbers would look like if our defense wasn't dead last in turnovers forced(the Pack is first I believe). Probably more TDs and less yards?
Brees would have fewer yards.
Rodgers gets those turnovers and has a shorter field.
Brees' Saints opponents punt, giving Brees 70 yards to rack up instead of Rodgers 40 yards.
That might be part of why Rodgers has more TDs and more wins, and Brees has more yards.

What's more important: More yards, or yards per attempt?

tjsunstein
12-28-2011, 04:54 PM
Touchdowns without context is fun though. Not saying Rodgers isn't MVP, but the "zomg touchdowns" thing is getting kinda old

So is the zomg yards considering how many people were on pace to break it.

I've come to the conclusion that the QBs spoiled is this year with even Cam breaking the rookie yards record.

For me, it's easily Rodgers. I've watched every Packer game this year on top of the fact that his stats are right up there as well. Usually I would do the same thing someone is about to do to me and call them some form of homer. After last season and the Packers run led by Rodgers, the expectations were sit high for Rodgers and the Pack and they still exceeded them. The 13-0 start certainly wont hurt his chances.

cmarq83
12-28-2011, 06:59 PM
Brees has played great, but you have to give this one to Rodgers. His QB rating record will probably stand for awhile. Drew's yardage record will be gone within 5 years IMO, probably by him. While Brees' play is definitely MVP worthy, the next time he puts up toss up numbers with another QB he'll get it because the voters know he's due. It's just too tough to compete with Rodgers this year even though he's pretty much played just as well.

J-Mike88
12-28-2011, 09:13 PM
I'd like to see Brady's stats this year compared to the 3 years Peyton won MVP and the 3 years Farve won MVP.

I suspect Brady's season this year is right on par with all of them except PM's 49-TD season. And Brady's a distant third this year... amazing.

Even Stafford's stats, I suspect, will compare favorably to Favre's MVP years. Farve never hit 40 IIRC.

The ball was juiced this year in the NFL.

hockey619
12-28-2011, 10:13 PM
I'd like to see Brady's stats this year compared to the 3 years Peyton won MVP and the 3 years Farve won MVP.

I suspect Brady's season this year is right on par with all of them except PM's 49-TD season. And Brady's a distant third this year... amazing.

Even Stafford's stats, I suspect, will compare favorably to Favre's MVP years. Farve never hit 40 IIRC.

The ball was juiced this year in the NFL.

favre also played in the pre-basketball on grass NFL.

also, to all those people (at least four posts hinted at it) saying brees had one 'stolen' from him a few years ago by manning, i call 100% bs.

Peyton took an atrocious team to a near undefeated season (only lost when they rested guys...stupidly) that year. a team that only a few years later, with mostly the same personnel (and a slightly worse oline), made a run at 0-16. that was at the point where it was becoming painfully clear the talent level on the colts had fallen off drastically since their 2007 SB win. at most, brees shouldve been co mvp that year. theres no way in hell peyton didnt deserve that one, he played great that year.

sorry to sidetrack the talk, but some people just like to ***** about manning when he doesnt always deserve it.


This year its rodgers. hes been a notch above everyone else with his level of total domination.

YAYareaRB
12-29-2011, 12:31 PM
Wheres the David Akers option?

BloodBrother
12-29-2011, 05:43 PM
Keep in mind that Rodgers is only what? about 400 yards shy of Brees despite Brees throwing well over 100 more times than Rodgers has...completing more passes

Brees also has the luxury of playing in a dome at least 9 times a year(8 home games + @ ATL) while Rodgers is playing outdoors for a majority of the season

Brees should have won it in 2009...and I feel bad for the guy that he continues to have seasons like this but ultimately gets overshadowed by somebody who is doing better.

I still don't see how Rodgers doesn't win this. Brees should win Offensive PLayer of the Year award, but Rodgers gets the MVP IMO

Abaddon
12-29-2011, 06:21 PM
Rodgers is the obvious choice, but a co-MVP situation with Brees certainly makes sense.

J-Mike88
12-29-2011, 06:23 PM
Brees also has the luxury of playing in a dome at least 9 times a year(8 home games + @ ATL) while Rodgers is playing outdoors for a majority of the season
Also played at a winless St Louis dome, and at a horrible Minnesota dome.
That Viking defense that was decimated by DB injuries and just made Tim Tebow look like a passing QB. That's 11 of Brees 15 games this year inside a perfect dome with no wind to contend with.

The other 4 were warm Carolina, warm Tampa Bay, Green Bay in the opener when it was 65 degrees and he and Rodgers lit it up, and at southern Tennessee.

Anyone know Brees' record in games under 40 degrees?

Saints-Tigers
12-29-2011, 06:39 PM
LMao. Brees had it so easy. Poor Aaron Rodgers!

Bucs_Rule
12-29-2011, 06:47 PM
Also played at a winless St Louis dome, and at a horrible Minnesota dome.
That Viking defense that was decimated by DB injuries and just made Tim Tebow look like a passing QB. That's 11 of Brees 15 games this year inside a perfect dome with no wind to contend with.

The other 4 were warm Carolina, warm Tampa Bay, Green Bay in the opener when it was 65 degrees and he and Rodgers lit it up, and at southern Tennessee.

Anyone know Brees' record in games under 40 degrees?

No, but I have a feeling you do.

Bengalsrocket
12-29-2011, 08:03 PM
Let's all just agree that Aaron Rodgers is the boss sauce when you're playing in 40 degrees or below weather and Drew Brees would likely curl up into a ball and cry until the medical staff carried him off the field.

Weather doesn't mean THAT much guys.

J-Mike88
12-29-2011, 08:15 PM
Remember, the Super Bowl is in a dome this season...... :)

cmarq83
12-29-2011, 09:28 PM
Also played at a winless St Louis dome, and at a horrible Minnesota dome.
That Viking defense that was decimated by DB injuries and just made Tim Tebow look like a passing QB. That's 11 of Brees 15 games this year inside a perfect dome with no wind to contend with.

The other 4 were warm Carolina, warm Tampa Bay, Green Bay in the opener when it was 65 degrees and he and Rodgers lit it up, and at southern Tennessee.

Anyone know Brees' record in games under 40 degrees?

Not like I want to get into a pissing contest about this, because Rodgers is definitely the MVP, but Rodgers didn't really have huge passing obstacles either this year.

He played the 32nd, 31st x2, 29th, 28th, 26th, 25th, 23rd, 21st, 20th, 18th x2, 16th, and 15th ranked defenses this year.

BloodBrother
12-30-2011, 02:18 AM
I feel bad for Brady. I think in the end the MVP goes to Rodgers with Brees getting OPOY award. That leaves Brady with...a pro bowl berth. Dude deserved more love than that this year

insane year for QB play


He played the 32nd, 31st x2, 29th, 28th, 26th, 25th, 23rd, 21st, 20th, 18th x2, 16th, and 15th ranked defenses this year.

True...but playing the Packers offense(leads the league in ppg) would play a role in those teams defensive rankings, don't you think?

Well, the Vikes D would be bad vs anybody. Even Tebow lit them up for over 200 yards on 10-15 passing. Amazingly bad secondary

cmarq83
12-30-2011, 03:43 PM
True...but playing the Packers offense(leads the league in ppg) would play a role in those teams defensive rankings, don't you think?


Statistically to a certain extent, but it's still an anomaly. The 2004 Colts and 2007 Patriots were challenged by numerous top 10 defenses, whereas the best one the Packers have faced is 15th.

Bucs_Rule
12-30-2011, 03:55 PM
I feel bad for Brady. I think in the end the MVP goes to Rodgers with Brees getting OPOY award. That leaves Brady with...a pro bowl berth. Dude deserved more love than that this year

insane year for QB play


If Brees or Rodgers had played this well last year then Brady would have lost the MVP last season.

LonghornsLegend
12-30-2011, 04:06 PM
I guess I'm kinda confused as to why it's just these two and Tom Brady isn't in the discussion? Brady might finish the year with the most passing yards, he's got the #1 seed in the AFC and playing with an attrocious defense that puts all the pressure on him the entire game.


I'm not sure he'd be my vote, but never have I understood these past few weeks how the question is either Brees or Rodgers and Brady is just left out. Like the season he is having is just 'solid' or something.


36 TD's, 11 INT's, 105 QB rating, and breaking 5k passing yards. Yet he can't even get his name in the discussion with the #1 team in the AFC? Maybe I'm missing something.

cmarq83
12-30-2011, 04:33 PM
I guess I'm kinda confused as to why it's just these two and Tom Brady isn't in the discussion? Brady might finish the year with the most passing yards, he's got the #1 seed in the AFC and playing with an attrocious defense that puts all the pressure on him the entire game.


I'm not sure he'd be my vote, but never have I understood these past few weeks how the question is either Brees or Rodgers and Brady is just left out. Like the season he is having is just 'solid' or something.


36 TD's, 11 INT's, 105 QB rating, and breaking 5k passing yards. Yet he can't even get his name in the discussion with the #1 team in the AFC? Maybe I'm missing something.


I can understand it. This year is one of those years for Brady where statistically he's doing well, but he's not always starting fast. He played a major roll in a couple of their losses, but for 80% of the season he's been downright electric. He definitely has not been as good as last year though, and that probably hurts him in the eyes of the voters.

Combine that with Rodgers and Brees's success and I don't see how he should even get one vote. The 3 of them are all in very similar situations, and statistically Brady has been the worst of the 3.

Bob Sanders Dreadlock
12-30-2011, 05:49 PM
I guess I'm kinda confused as to why it's just these two and Tom Brady isn't in the discussion? Brady might finish the year with the most passing yards, he's got the #1 seed in the AFC and playing with an attrocious defense that puts all the pressure on him the entire game.


I'm not sure he'd be my vote, but never have I understood these past few weeks how the question is either Brees or Rodgers and Brady is just left out. Like the season he is having is just 'solid' or something.


36 TD's, 11 INT's, 105 QB rating, and breaking 5k passing yards. Yet he can't even get his name in the discussion with the #1 team in the AFC? Maybe I'm missing something.

See games against Buffalo, Pittsburgh, and NYG. Even last week against miami wasn't very pretty

Jvig43
12-30-2011, 06:21 PM
See games against Buffalo, Pittsburgh, and NYG. Even last week against miami wasn't very pretty

Did you watch that game? We lost our best O-linemen, and Light (overrated at this point anyway) along with Seabass being out as well. Miami's pass rush was killing us and it wasn't Brady's fault. He ******* worked a miracle in the second half to put us back in that game (27 ******* points). Also, he led a game winning drive against the G-men before our defense gave up a PI flag at the one yard line to basically seal the game for them. If you havent watched these games please don't just spew out this ****, if you want to talk about poor performances how about losing to the Rams (or the Chiefs for that matter). That was a terrible argument /end homer rant.

Brodeur
12-30-2011, 06:33 PM
The only Seabass is Sebastian Janikowski, so who the **** are you talking about?

jsagan77
12-30-2011, 06:55 PM
I guess I'm kinda confused as to why it's just these two and Tom Brady isn't in the discussion? Brady might finish the year with the most passing yards, he's got the #1 seed in the AFC and playing with an attrocious defense that puts all the pressure on him the entire game.


I'm not sure he'd be my vote, but never have I understood these past few weeks how the question is either Brees or Rodgers and Brady is just left out. Like the season he is having is just 'solid' or something.


36 TD's, 11 INT's, 105 QB rating, and breaking 5k passing yards. Yet he can't even get his name in the discussion with the #1 team in the AFC? Maybe I'm missing something.


Not to mention who he's throwing to. A couple TE's and an UDFA...

Hurricanes25
12-30-2011, 07:01 PM
Not to mention who he's throwing to. A couple TE's and an UDFA...

I agree that Brady should be in the conversation but the fact that he's throwing to a former undrafted free agent is completely irrelevant. Welker is a pro bowler, it's not like he's some udfa rookie. Not to mention Gronk, who is probably the best TE in the league.

J-Mike88
12-30-2011, 07:19 PM
The only Seabass is Sebastian Janikowski, so who the **** are you talking about?
Comment of the year

jsagan77
12-30-2011, 07:41 PM
I agree that Brady should be in the conversation but the fact that he's throwing to a former undrafted free agent is completely irrelevant. Welker is a pro bowler, it's not like he's some udfa rookie. Not to mention Gronk, who is probably the best TE in the league.

Yeah but w/o Brady both wouldn't be close to where they are as pro's. He makes them relevant...

Jvig43
12-30-2011, 10:17 PM
The only Seabass is Sebastian Janikowski, so who the **** are you talking about?

Vollmer. And I will call him whatever I damn well please.

Comment of the year

Not even close.

Bob Sanders Dreadlock
12-30-2011, 10:47 PM
Did you watch that game? We lost our best O-linemen, and Light (overrated at this point anyway) along with Seabass being out as well. Miami's pass rush was killing us and it wasn't Brady's fault. He ******* worked a miracle in the second half to put us back in that game (27 ******* points). Also, he led a game winning drive against the G-men before our defense gave up a PI flag at the one yard line to basically seal the game for them. If you havent watched these games please don't just spew out this ****, if you want to talk about poor performances how about losing to the Rams (or the Chiefs for that matter). That was a terrible argument /end homer rant.

That is such a bad cop out to blame it on the defense for that giants loss. Put more than 20 points on the board if you have to worry about your defense breaking. Thats nice what he did in the 2nd half but it is a 4 quarter game. Don't let your team get down like that. Didn't realize poor offensive line play was a valid excuse these. Manning was getting slaughtered all last season but most people tend not to care(homer point). If you want to talk about terrible performances see 4 interception debacle against buffalo.

niel89
12-30-2011, 11:17 PM
It's all Rodgers. Brees and Brady are having MVP years but they just aren't on Rodgers level this year which is saying a lot about how Rodgers is playing.

Jvig43
12-30-2011, 11:26 PM
That is such a bad cop out to blame it on the defense for that giants loss. Put more than 20 points on the board if you have to worry about your defense breaking. Thats nice what he did in the 2nd half but it is a 4 quarter game. Don't let your team get down like that. Didn't realize poor offensive line play was a valid excuse these. Manning was getting slaughtered all last season but most people tend not to care(homer point). If you want to talk about terrible performances see 4 interception debacle against buffalo.

A bad game against Buffalo = disqualification from being discussed in mvp discussion (Also don't throw out the line "if you want to talk about bad performances" because that was brought up in response to your ****** argument while you neglected the fact that losing to the Rams and Chiefs was far worse than losing to a motivated Bufflo team early in the season, in which I would love to argue that only two of those picks were Brady's fault but I wont because I'm sure thats the Pats fan in me talking). Give me a break, it's obviously Rodgers for MVP, but stop being a Colts homer and acting like Brady isn't having a ridiculous year right up there with Brees. The Pats have a very good shot at locking up the number one seed in the AFC solely because of Brady. This team would be atrocious without him, I doubt we win more than five games this year without Brady playing like he is.

Smooth Criminal
12-30-2011, 11:57 PM
I feel bad for Brady. I think in the end the MVP goes to Rodgers with Brees getting OPOY award. That leaves Brady with...a pro bowl berth. Dude deserved more love than that this year

insane year for QB play



True...but playing the Packers offense(leads the league in ppg) would play a role in those teams defensive rankings, don't you think?

Well, the Vikes D would be bad vs anybody. Even Tebow lit them up for over 200 yards on 10-15 passing. Amazingly bad secondary

Playing the packers would drop their ratings some, but one game out of 15 isn't enough to make all of their opponents have bottom half of the league numbers.

And Rodgers is my choice for MVP.

Bob Sanders Dreadlock
12-31-2011, 09:14 AM
A bad game against Buffalo = disqualification from being discussed in mvp discussion (Also don't throw out the line "if you want to talk about bad performances" because that was brought up in response to your ****** argument while you neglected the fact that losing to the Rams and Chiefs was far worse than losing to a motivated Bufflo team early in the season, in which I would love to argue that only two of those picks were Brady's fault but I wont because I'm sure thats the Pats fan in me talking). Give me a break, it's obviously Rodgers for MVP, but stop being a Colts homer and acting like Brady isn't having a ridiculous year right up there with Brees. The Pats have a very good shot at locking up the number one seed in the AFC solely because of Brady. This team would be atrocious without him, I doubt we win more than five games this year without Brady playing like he is.

Colts without Manning don't win more than 3 games. Manning= MVP =)

WCH
12-31-2011, 09:33 AM
Colts without Manning don't win more than 3 games. Manning= MVP =)

I'll buy MVnP for Manning, but I think you have to actually play in order to win Most Valuable Player. ;)

Saints-Tigers
01-01-2012, 04:32 PM
So yea... I won't say it, but everyone here is thinking it.

NY+Giants=NYG
01-01-2012, 04:34 PM
AR for MVP? I agree! I think he really deserves it. Great player and managed to do well with less passing attempts. Kudos to him this year.

Also, Kudos to Brees. He had a great year, but I am going with AR.

Saints-Tigers
01-01-2012, 04:39 PM
That was expected. MVP= QB on team with most wins. Nothing else matters.

Flyboy
01-01-2012, 04:42 PM
So yea... I won't say it, but everyone here is thinking it.

Are you talking about Matt Flynn's performance today?

Shhhhh, sir!

JRTPlaya21
01-01-2012, 04:44 PM
Did someone say they really feel bad for Brady? You mean the guy with multiple records, championships, mvps & a scorching hot wife.....yeah I just feel terrible.....

Saints-Tigers
01-01-2012, 04:45 PM
I feel bad for Aaron Rodgers. I shudder to think what the Packers offense would do without him. Poor guy :(

NY+Giants=NYG
01-01-2012, 04:45 PM
That was expected. MVP= QB on team with most wins. Nothing else matters.

Hehe I was just messing around. You left it so opened ended, lol.

But to be serious, I am going with AR for doing what he is doing with much less passing attempts. They also don't pad their QBs stats like your team does. It's uncanny in a way how you guys do that. Perhaps I am little jealous because I'd like that for us. You see when we are at the 1 yard line we run with bradshaw or jacobs. You guys throw it up 38-16 or so, in a game where probably Eli gets taken out after a big lead. I would never want it like you guys do it, but I'd like for us to go half way or 75%. We are totally backwards in what we do.

I respect Brees and his elite talent, but I can't vote for a guy whose team goes out of their way to pad their QBs stats.

PackerLegend
01-01-2012, 04:52 PM
That was expected. MVP= QB on team with most wins. Nothing else matters.

Rodgers was named player of the month 4 times in a row for a reason. Get over it. Brees had a great year but Rodgers was talked about having one of the best years ever for the entire year. So Brees had about 400 more yards last week but everything else was basically Rodgers. Passer rating, Tds, half the Ints, wins, head 2 head... He didnt even have to play this week because he led his team to the #1 seed. Look what happened today. It obviously wouldn't have been the same but if Rodgers played he would have probably been over 5000 yards as well and pretty close to Bradys Td mark.

Brees played 16 games Rodgers played 15. So of course his stats will be padded and higher n certain area.

ninerfan
01-01-2012, 04:58 PM
I really like Rodgers but I think that what Brees has done is pretty special this year & he leads probably the hottest team into the play offs. He gets my vote but i wont be upset either way

NY+Giants=NYG
01-01-2012, 05:05 PM
Rodgers was named player of the month 4 times in a row for a reason. Get over it. Brees had a great year but Rodgers was talked about having one of the best years ever for the entire year. So Brees had about 400 more yards last week but everything else was basically Rodgers. Passer rating, Tds, half the Ints, wins, head 2 head... He didnt even have to play this week because he led his team to the #1 seed. Look what happened today. It obviously wouldn't have been the same but if Rodgers played he would have probably been over 5000 yards as well and pretty close to Bradys Td mark.

Brees played 16 games Rodgers played 15. So of course his stats will be padded and higher n certain area.

Good post. Props to your rep.

PackerLegend
01-01-2012, 05:06 PM
It really doesn't matter I would rather have a SB win instead. Im sure all MVP candidates would gladly give it up if it meant they won the SB.

When do we find out anyways.

BloodBrother
01-01-2012, 05:06 PM
Are you talking about Matt Flynn's performance today?

Shhhhh, sir!

yeah, because Brees isn't surrounded by great weapons and a good OL himself

Still don't see how Rodgers doesn't get the MVP. He was more efficient than Brees this year. Did more damage, threw more TD's in far less attempts

Saints-Tigers
01-01-2012, 05:06 PM
It really ain't about the stats anymore. Aaron Rodgers "help" was belittled a lot during this thread, and during the year, everyone likes to pretend it's all him, and that nothing could replace that, and that Brees/Brady have so many weapons.

Brees and Brady's team would not be putting up 45 on a playoff team, and other guys wouldn't come into their offense and break passing records.

Matt Flynn is nice, but he's not AR/Brees/Brady, and the Packers supporting cast, playcalling, and coaching went underrated all year, and the media and fans chose Rodgers by about week 4, and no one else really had a chance, because no one was bending on that.

Anyway, MVP doesn't even matter to me... hell all the NFL awards don't mean much to me, they are way too storyline driven and media hype. I just don't want to pretend it isn't biased.

Basileus777
01-01-2012, 05:09 PM
Rodgers is surrounded with talent and has receivers that consistently win their match-ups and get separation. Were there really people knocking his supporting cast?

PackerLegend
01-01-2012, 05:15 PM
It really ain't about the stats anymore. Aaron Rodgers "help" was belittled a lot during this thread, and during the year, everyone likes to pretend it's all him, and that nothing could replace that, and that Brees/Brady have so many weapons.

Brees and Brady's team would not be putting up 45 on a playoff team, and other guys wouldn't come into their offense and break passing records.

Matt Flynn is nice, but he's not AR/Brees/Brady, and the Packers supporting cast, playcalling, and coaching went underrated all year, and the media and fans chose Rodgers by about week 4, and no one else really had a chance, because no one was bending on that.

What Flynn did today was special but that was in part because the Lions secondary sucks. Theres no way we would be 15-1 with Flynn, I highly doubt that. The Packers have an amazing WR set that is known. Finely is pretty good himself when hes not dropping balls. The O-line does very little to help Rodgers along with the running game which is basically non existent most games. If there was 1 yard to go and we ran id be shocked if we got it 4/10 times. Everytime we tried with a run it seemed we lost bout 3.

Saints-Tigers
01-01-2012, 05:16 PM
Aaron Rodgers is probably the best QB in the league, I just think that at a certain point in the season, the MVP selection already seemed set in stone, regardless of anyone's play.

BloodBrother
01-01-2012, 05:18 PM
I do remember people saying the Packers WR corps was overrated and that Rodgers made them better than they were. Pretty clear that JEnnings/Jordy is one of the top 1/2 combos in the league. Jordy was huge for Flynn today and so was an athletic TE in Finley(who actually caught the ball today)

All 3 of these QB's are surrounded with talent. They aren't going to be putting up these ridiculous numbers without it. That's what good teams/coaching do. You surround your great QB's with weapons

the most impressive thing with Brees this year IMO is his completion %. He threw the ball like 650 times this year and completed over 70% of those. That's just insane

NY+Giants=NYG
01-01-2012, 05:21 PM
Aaron Rodgers is probably the best QB in the league, I just think that at a certain point in the season, the MVP selection already seemed set in stone, regardless of anyone's play.

And it should be.. AR is doing what he is doing with 122 less attempts. The mere fact both have great, great stats is sick. You guys lead the league in passing attempts, or Brees does. And on top of that you run up the score, and pad his stats on top of it. So everyone knows Brees will get his.

What's truly amazing is that AR is doing it with MUCH less attempts. That's amazing! Give AR 122 or so more attempts and see what happens. It won't be even close in my opinion.

Saints-Tigers
01-01-2012, 05:29 PM
Get over the run up the score thing. We haven't run up the score all year. wow, we gained 30 yards on that last drive in ATL. WOWWW

It's not like we didn't pull Brees against a few teams when he could have shattered records. Brees had 5 TDs with over a quarter left. I wish to god they would have left him in to smash that record.

Also fun when we scored a rushing TD when Brees could have padded his stats, then it was called back, and Brees called another run.

Or like when Brees could have broken Marino's record a few years back, and instead of throwing to a wide open guy underneath, he shot deep down the field to try and win.

RIDICULOUS assertion, get out of here with that ********.

Also, AR would have 122 more attempts or so if he had to work with more long fields.

NY+Giants=NYG
01-01-2012, 06:05 PM
Get over the run up the score thing. We haven't run up the score all year. wow, we gained 30 yards on that last drive in ATL. WOWWW

It's not like we didn't pull Brees against a few teams when he could have shattered records. Brees had 5 TDs with over a quarter left. I wish to god they would have left him in to smash that record.

Also fun when we scored a rushing TD when Brees could have padded his stats, then it was called back, and Brees called another run.

Or like when Brees could have broken Marino's record a few years back, and instead of throwing to a wide open guy underneath, he shot deep down the field to try and win.

RIDICULOUS assertion, get out of here with that ********.

Also, AR would have 122 more attempts or so if he had to work with more long fields.



Props to your rep. It's a good discussion on a boring day.

I disagree man.


Who scored 62 points on the Colts? Was that pretend? Why not take brees out earlier after you ran up the score?

1 and 4 on the goal line. You threw twice! What's wrong with your Rbs? They all benched? So he gets a 4 yard passing TD

2nd and 6 on the 6. What do you do? Throw it!

1st and 4 at the 4.. THROW!!!! Surprise, Surprise... 4 yard TD.


Seriously? Not running up the score? YOU get our here with that ****!



Why are you throwing up 41 to 7?! Better yet, why is your god damn Qb still in the game?!




62 god damn points, and no Rb over 100 yards. You could have gotten ALL 3 over 100 yards if your team wanted to! But now, instead you pad Brees's stats.

31/35 325 5 Tds..



Today! 1st and goal at the 1... What do you think happened? You guessed it! THROW the ball! Why are you throwing the ball 31-17? You couldn't run it again!

This is a trend that's happened ALL year long. I love when he throws the 42 yarders. That's beauty. But come with the 1 yard TD passes. That team is dead in the water, and your doing that to them.


2nd and 6 at the 9.. Pass for a TD.




Face the fact, your team goes out of it's way to pad your QB's stats. Now that's your system good for you, but don't try to sell how amazing or magical Brees is because of those numbers.

You want a sick QB. Look at AR! What he is doing is flat out amazing.

And why in god's green earth does Brees lead league in passing attempts? Does your running game stink? Do you have garbage RBs or a pathetic OL who can't run block?

Last year same thing.. 660ish in passing attempts! We get it, you people throw the ball a lot, and aren't afraid to keep throwing those close red zone TDs. But don't turn around and try to see us on a magical season.

When you are an elite QB throwing that many times, in those given situations you are going to get: a lot of yards AND a lot of TDs.

Like I said before, congrats to brees on breaking it, but I am siding with AR. I am probably the most biased too because I got no horse in this race.

I am just an outside fan looking at both teams. That's my opinion, if you don't agree that's cool. That's the whole point of a message board to talk about football.


That's all I got to say on this without beating my point to death.

J-Mike88
01-01-2012, 06:15 PM
What Flynn did today was special but that was in part because the Lions secondary sucks. Theres no way we would be 15-1 with Flynn, I highly doubt that..
It seems like 20 teams say their secondary sucks.
Who hasn't complained this year about their secondary?
The Chiefs?

Saints-Tigers
01-01-2012, 06:44 PM
31-17 and we threw the ball. How is 31-17 a point in the game where you go against what works best, because you don't want to "pad stats"?

Frankly, we should never run in short yardage. If we had thrown on the goal line in the packers game, we're in overtime with them in week 1.

Really, we should just bench Brees next time we have a two score lead. Clearly the Packers and Giants would!!!

BloodBrother
01-01-2012, 06:49 PM
Rodgers threw 2 TD's last week vs the Bears when they were at their 1-2 yard line. Don't see the big deal

you want the ball in your best players hands when you are looking to score

EvilMonkey
01-01-2012, 06:50 PM
sean payton pads stats, that cant be argued after today when he put Graham BACK IN to get the yardage record back after Gronk passed him. I was thrilled when gronk got it back from him.

That being said, I don't mind it at all. There have been times over the past few years where the Packers got up 14 and McCarthy runs clock a lot. We've stopped doing that more the last 2 years and it has helped us a lot. 3 years ago it seemed like we always just ran clock until the other team gets back in the game. Rather than do that, the Saints just keep passing, which I like. Why try to burn clock when your defense isn't reliable when you best defense is to keep scoring? However, this isn't fantasy football; you can't compare stats to decide any award.

The award does seem like it was set it stone a while ago, but what did Rodgers do during that time to justify him losing it?? Yeah, Brees was great, but Rodgers was incredibly consistent on the team with the best record. There is no reason for him to lose it.

descendency
01-01-2012, 07:08 PM
The difference between the Saints weapons and Packers weapons is marginal.

Flyboy
01-01-2012, 07:22 PM
Yawn. Don't really care if Brees wins the MVP or not or even co-MVPs. I'll be more happy with a Super Bowl MVP much like the 2009 season.

Saints-Tigers
01-01-2012, 07:33 PM
Yea. Aaron Rodgers had a spectacular year anyway.

Time for the playoffs.

SuperPacker
01-01-2012, 08:19 PM
The difference between the Saints weapons and Packers weapons is marginal.

Im a pakcers fan so i'd want to protect Rodgers here but i dont think the differnece is minimal.

Jennings>Colston
Nelson>Moore
Driver>Henderson
Jones>Meachem
Cobb>(whoever the 5th receiver is)

Mufasa
01-01-2012, 08:36 PM
Im a pakcers fan so i'd want to protect Rodgers here but i dont think the differnece is minimal.

Jennings>Colston
Nelson>Moore
Driver>Henderson
Jones>Meachem
Cobb>(whoever the 5th receiver is)
You left out Brees' top targets

Finley<Graham
Starks<Sproles
Grant<Thomas

I would say overall the Packers are better, but Brees has a ton of good weapons too, so I don't think it's an argument worth making.

JBCX
01-01-2012, 09:30 PM
And the Saints RB situation is 100x better than the Packers'.

Darren Sproles, Chris Ivory, Mark Ingram, and Pierre Thomas >>>>>>> Old and slow Ryan Grant and hobbled James Starks.

Flyboy
01-01-2012, 09:33 PM
And the Saints RB situation is 100x better than the Packers'.

Darren Sproles, Chris Ivory, Mark Ingram, and Pierre Thomas >>>>>>> Old and slow Ryan Grant and hobbled James Starks.

Well, the reports are that Mark Ingram will have season ending surgery on his toe, but still... yes.

NY+Giants=NYG
01-01-2012, 09:45 PM
And the Saints RB situation is 100x better than the Packers'.

Darren Sproles, Chris Ivory, Mark Ingram, and Pierre Thomas >>>>>>> Old and slow Ryan Grant and hobbled James Starks.

Yet their allergic to running the ball in couple yards out. That;s where brees gets his Tds.

jsagan77
01-02-2012, 12:04 AM
Does Flynn's success put Rodgers MVP status in question enough to give the award to Brees?

Shane P. Hallam
01-02-2012, 12:07 AM
Does Flynn's success put Rodgers MVP status in question enough to give the award to Brees?

Uh, no. Rodgers has the highest single season QB rating ever. That is auto MVP in my book.

J-Mike88
01-02-2012, 12:09 AM
Does Flynn's success put Rodgers MVP status in question enough to give the award to Brees?
It will affect a few votes probably.

Packers WR's>Saints WR's
Saints TE>Packers TE
Saints RB's>Packers RB's
Packers QB=Saints QB

I'm pretty sure Rodgers will win the MVP, but I wouldn't mind one bit if they split it like Favre & Barry Sanders did in 1997.

Brees & Rodgers both clearly have earned it.....

Agree with the last guy though who stated the Super Bowl MVP is more important.

Nalej
01-02-2012, 12:28 AM
End of Season Stats


A.Rodgers: 4,643/45/6 - 9.2ypa/68.3% comp/122.5 Rating/14-1 record
D. Bress: 5,476/46/14 - 8.3ypa/71.2% comp/110.6 Rating/13-3 record
T.Brady: 5,235/39/12 - 8.6ypa/65.6% comp/105.6 Rating/13-3 record

A.Rodgers is the obvious winner but wow... this year has been ridiculous.
Brees and Brady are about to get Culpepper'd

soybean
01-02-2012, 12:36 AM
Shouldn't the head to head matter? All things equal AR had had a much higher completion percentage and Brees had 49 attempts that game.

Basileus777
01-02-2012, 12:45 AM
Why should head-to-head matter? Was Drew Brees covering wide receivers when he played Green Bay?

DBNYDP
01-02-2012, 12:52 AM
It's Tom Brady for me. Look his defense sucks, its worse than both the Packers and the Saints. His receiving corps is good (including Hernandez/Gronk) but I think both the Saints and the Packers have more talented receivers. I think the Saints and the Packers have a better run game, and at least the Saints protect their QB better than the Patriots do for Brady. It seems to me that Brady has carried his team more than Brees or Rogers (who have done extraordinary job too but...) and that's the meaning of MVP, Brady has been the most valuable player.

J-Mike88
01-02-2012, 08:26 AM
The Packers defense gave up more passing yards this season than any team ever had in the history of the NFL.

Brady will be a distant 3rd in voting for this.
Not even Peter King will vote for Brady.

And it's Rodgers, not Rogers.

J-Mike88
01-02-2012, 08:29 AM
Why should head-to-head matter? Was Drew Brees covering wide receivers when he played Green Bay?
Brees threw about 150 more passes, to get just one more TD, and more than double the amount of interceptions.

And Brees lost to TWO horseschit teams, which cost them the #2 seed.
Brees at Tampa Bay: 29/45 for 383 yards, 1 TD, 3 Ints
Brees at St Louis: 30/44 for 269 yards, 1 TD, 2 Ints

Project Rodgers stats if he was allowed to chuck it 150 more times, and he'd have blown away Brees stats. He threw an average of 10 extra passes per game.

Of course Brees is gonna rack up more yards when he gets 150 more chances.

That's like comparing Pujols HRs in 150 fewer at bats to Howards with +150 at bats. Who should have a lot more HRs?

SuperPacker
01-02-2012, 09:01 AM
Yeah the Saints have a better running game and tight end so i think that evens it out.

Nalej
01-02-2012, 09:17 AM
The Packers defense gave up more passing yards this season than any team ever had in the history of the NFL.

Brady will be a distant 3rd in voting for this.
Not even Peter King will vote for Brady.

And it's Rodgers, not Rogers.

I don't think anyone is debating this...
it's just mindblowing to see his stats and know he has as a good a chance as our kicker to win MVP

JHL6719
01-02-2012, 09:29 AM
Peyton Manning.


It's this and it's not even close.

Nalej
01-02-2012, 09:30 AM
It's this and it's not even close.

I'll say this, he'll be the unanimous decision next year if he stays on the Colts and makes the playoffs.

jsagan77
01-02-2012, 09:37 AM
Uh, no. Rodgers has the highest single season QB rating ever. That is auto MVP in my book.

QBR vs absolutely shattering a 27 year old yardage mark and finishing with more TD's than Rodgers absolutely puts Brees in the running. ( I know Rodgers was benched but facts are facts)

The reason I asked the question of Flynn is because the MVP award goes to the most valuable that season. Flynn's success automatically puts Rodgers season into perspective to me. If a backup can have that type of success in that system then could that mean Brees is more valuable to the Saints than Rodgers is to the Packers?

There's no question both players had phenomenal seasons but who's more important to the success of their team, Rodgers or Brees? If they get hurt which team suffers more? Maybe that's not a popular line of thinking but I don't believe the MVP race is as cut and dry as you're making it to be. I actually think Brees could win it.

J-Mike88
01-02-2012, 09:46 AM
I don't think anyone is debating this...
it's just mindblowing to see his stats and know he has as a good a chance as our kicker to win MVP
That is true.
Look at Matthew Stafford too!
Age 23, 5,038 yards, 41 TD's, 16 Ints.

And not even a Pro-Bowl alternate?

Brett Favre's 3 MVP Years:
1995: 4,413 yards, 38 TD's, 13 Ints
1996: 3,899 yards, 39 TD's, 13 Ints
1997: 4,212 yards, 35 TD's, 16 Ints

Drew Brees:
2008: 5,069 yards, 34 TD's, 17 Ints
2009: 4,388 yards, 34 TD's, 11 Ints
2010: 4,620 yards, 33 TD's, 22 Ints

The ball was juiced this year. Except for Sanchez & Freeman.

Miaoww
01-02-2012, 09:48 AM
After Flynn's performance, Drew Brees.

A Perfect Score
01-02-2012, 09:51 AM
I know he isn't a legitimate candidate, but someone needs to say something about Ray Rice. He has, quite literally, carried the Ravens this year. He's been absolutely Herculean over the past month, and he actually ended up finishing 2nd in the NFL in rushing behind MJD. Fun fact? In our 4 losses this year, Rice 13,8,5, and 10. To quote an absolutely excellent troll who once frequented here, the proof is in the pudding. When the Ravens give Rice the ball, they win. His total statline:

291 att, 1364 yds, 4.7 avg, 12 TDs (70 Lng)
76 rec, 704 yds, 9.3 avg, 3 TDs (52 Lng)

I don't even want to imagine the Ravens offense without Ray Rice in the backfield. Anemic wouldn't describe it.

WCH
01-02-2012, 09:55 AM
After Flynn's performance, Drew Brees.

Flynn isn't chopped liver, but that was a fluke performance. He did what Starr, Dickey, Favre, and Rodgers couldn't do.

If NFL teams felt like that game reflected Flynn's talent, they'd break the bank for him. If NFL teams felt like that game reflected the potency of the Packers offensive system, they'd break the bank for Joe Philbin.

Nobody is breaking banks, which tells me that this is being viewed as a flukey performance by a decent player on a great team, facing a decent opponent in a pretty meaningless game.

Boston
01-02-2012, 09:57 AM
It's Rodgers and it's not going to be close. He should win it for taking the defending Super Bowl champions to a 14-1 record alone. But then you throw in the fact that he broke the all time QB rating mark, threw for 45 TD's in 15 games, over 4500 yards to go along with a 9.3 yards per completion rate, and only six interceptions, and you see just how good Rodgers was this year.

Yeah Brees had a great season, but anybody saying he should or could win the MVP is grasping at straws.

And any argument that even mentions Matt Flynn is absolutely ********.

SuperPacker
01-02-2012, 10:01 AM
Flynn isn't chopped liver, but that was a fluke performance. He did what Starr, Dickey, Favre, and Rodgers couldn't do.

If NFL teams felt like that game reflected Flynn's talent, they'd break the bank for him. If NFL teams felt like that game reflected the potency of the Packers offensive system, they'd break the bank for Joe Philbin.

Nobody is breaking banks, which tells me that this is being viewed as a flukey performance by a decent player on a great team, facing a decent opponent in a pretty meaningless game.

"Breaking banks"? Its been a day since the game, lol. What do you expect to be happening the day after the performance?

jsagan77
01-02-2012, 10:15 AM
It's Rodgers and it's not going to be close. He should win it for taking the defending Super Bowl champions to a 14-1 record alone. But then you throw in the fact that he broke the all time QB rating mark, threw for 45 TD's in 15 games, over 4500 yards to go along with a 9.3 yards per completion rate, and only six interceptions, and you see just how good Rodgers was this year.

Yeah Brees had a great season, but anybody saying he should or could win the MVP is grasping at straws.

And any argument that even mentions Matt Flynn is absolutely ********.


Not even close? Of course it's close... Anyone that mentions it's not close is absolutely ********.

AntoinCD
01-02-2012, 10:23 AM
It's Rodgers and it's not going to be close. He should win it for taking the defending Super Bowl champions to a 14-1 record alone. But then you throw in the fact that he broke the all time QB rating mark, threw for 45 TD's in 15 games, over 4500 yards to go along with a 9.3 yards per completion rate, and only six interceptions, and you see just how good Rodgers was this year.

Yeah Brees had a great season, but anybody saying he should or could win the MVP is grasping at straws.

And any argument that even mentions Matt Flynn is absolutely ********.

What exactly does winning the Superbowl last year have to do with with winning the MVP this year?

Rodgers had an amazing year, totally deserving of the MVP but how can you not say it will be remotely close?

Drew Brees threw for more TDs and nearly 1000 more yards. He was unstoppable for the second half of the year.

I still think Rodgers should win it but it's close enough to have a debate about it.

And why should Matt Flynn's performance not be taken into account? Green Bay played manily back ups against a playoff team who had something to play for. What did he do? He went and broke records against them. That shouldn't detract a lot from Rodgers but it can definitely be used in an arguement for Drew Brees.

tjsunstein
01-02-2012, 10:31 AM
What exactly does winning the Superbowl last year have to do with with winning the MVP this year?

Rodgers had an amazing year, totally deserving of the MVP but how can you not say it will be remotely close?

Drew Brees threw for more TDs and nearly 1000 more yards. He was unstoppable for the second half of the year.

I still think Rodgers should win it but it's close enough to have a debate about it.

And why should Matt Flynn's performance not be taken into account? Green Bay played manily back ups against a playoff team who had something to play for. What did he do? He went and broke records against them. That shouldn't detract a lot from Rodgers but it can definitely be used in an arguement for Drew Brees.

If you're going to use Matt Flynn against Aaron Rodgers than you have you use him against Drew Brees too since they both played Detroit, both at home. Brees with all of his starters, Matt Flynn with a resting Green Bay team.

Drew Brees vs. Detroit: 26/36 342 Yards 3TD
Matt Flynn vs. Detroit: 31/44 480 Yards 6TD

MichaelJordanEberle (sabf)
01-02-2012, 10:37 AM
Matt Flynn is the MVP.

RufusMcDaniel
01-02-2012, 10:42 AM
I don't even want to imagine the Ravens offense without Ray Rice in the backfield. Anemic wouldn't describe it.

And because I consider them the same guy, imagine the Jags offence without MJD......

PackerLegend
01-02-2012, 12:17 PM
Drew Brees threw for more TDs and nearly 1000 more yards. He was unstoppable for the second half of the year.



Aaron Rodgers played 15 games Brees played 16 so one would come to the conclusion he should have more? Why did Rodgers play only 15 because by about week 12 they basically already had everything sealed for the top seed.

I like how you say "More" Tds... as if 1 is so many more. Brees had a 8 ints more.

Rodgers had 13/15 games over 100 QB rating his 2 that were not (80, 96). Brees 11/16 his 5 that weren't (99, 82, 70, 73, 96)

Who won player of the month 4 times in a row? I'll give you a guess it wasnt Drew Brees. Why did he get it 4 times in a row? Hmmm because maybe he was outplaying everybody. Nobody has ever got it 4 times in a row. Only Barry Freaking Sanders got it 3 times in a row. Sure Brees had a hot Dec but he was outplayed the entire year and played an extra game.


The funny part is none of this talk really started until Brees torched a horrible Vikings secondary missing half its DBs.

AntoinCD
01-02-2012, 12:29 PM
Aaron Rodgers played 15 games Brees played 16 so one would come to the conclusion he should have more? Why did Rodgers play only 15 because by about week 12 they basically already had everything sealed for the top seed.

I like how you say "More" Tds... as if 1 is so many more. Brees had a 8 ints more.

Rodgers had 13/15 games over 100 QB rating his 2 that were not (80, 96). Brees 11/16 his 5 that weren't (99, 82, 70, 73, 96)

Who won player of the month 4 times in a row? I'll give you a guess it wasnt Drew Brees. Why did he get it 4 times in a row? Hmmm because maybe he was outplaying everybody. Nobody has ever got it 4 times in a row. Only Barry Freaking Sanders got it 3 times in a row. Sure Brees had a hot Dec but he was outplayed the entire year and played an extra game.


The funny part is none of this talk really started until Brees torched a horrible Vikings secondary missing half its DBs.

Who cares about player of the month? End of season awards aren't even that important but player of the month???

And I love how you're jumping on the one part of my quote. I stated quite clearly that Rodgers should be and would be deserving of the MVP. I was stating it is ridiculous to say it's not a close run thing though.

PackerLegend
01-02-2012, 12:35 PM
Who cares about player of the month? End of season awards aren't even that important but player of the month???



I know player of the month really doesn't mean much... but dont you think Brees or somebody else would have managed to get their hands on one? I think that kind of points out how well he was really playing.

Raiderz4Life
01-02-2012, 12:38 PM
lol gotta love Packer fans.

jackalope
01-02-2012, 12:39 PM
Matt Flynn is the MVP.

This is correct.

Project yesterday's stats over a 16 game season and Flynn comes just shy of 8,000 yards, 100 touchdowns, and has a 16-0 record. And that was Flynn's first start of the season. You have to assume those numbers would have gotten better as the year went on. This is pretty clearly Flynn's award in a runaway.

MichaelJordanEberle (sabf)
01-02-2012, 01:38 PM
This is correct.

Project yesterday's stats over a 16 game season and Flynn comes just shy of 8,000 yards, 100 touchdowns, and has a 16-0 record. And that was Flynn's first start of the season. You have to assume those numbers would have gotten better as the year went on. This is pretty clearly Flynn's award in a runaway.

He's a lock for the HOF at this point. He did to the Lions what Favre and Rodgers couldn't, and what Brees didn't earlier this year. If you outperform the two next best QBs by that kind of margin, it's pretty clear the league is not ready for you. The NFL is going to have to re-adjust all of the pro-passing rule changes in order to prevent Matt Flynn from giving his team an unfair advantage.

J-Mike88
01-02-2012, 01:45 PM
Back to reality for a moment, anyone know when this award gets revealed?
I think it's the last one they reveal... first we will hear Rookies of year, Comeback, Coach, Defensive POY, etc.

Let's start rolling them out NFL......

Basileus777
01-02-2012, 02:01 PM
Brees threw about 150 more passes, to get just one more TD, and more than double the amount of interceptions.

And Brees lost to TWO horseschit teams, which cost them the #2 seed.
Brees at Tampa Bay: 29/45 for 383 yards, 1 TD, 3 Ints
Brees at St Louis: 30/44 for 269 yards, 1 TD, 2 Ints

Project Rodgers stats if he was allowed to chuck it 150 more times, and he'd have blown away Brees stats. He threw an average of 10 extra passes per game.

Of course Brees is gonna rack up more yards when he gets 150 more chances.

That's like comparing Pujols HRs in 150 fewer at bats to Howards with +150 at bats. Who should have a lot more HRs?

What does any of this have to do with the post you quoted? It's not a response to what I said.

jackalope
01-02-2012, 03:07 PM
He's a lock for the HOF at this point. He did to the Lions what Favre and Rodgers couldn't, and what Brees didn't earlier this year. If you outperform the two next best QBs by that kind of margin, it's pretty clear the league is not ready for you. The NFL is going to have to re-adjust all of the pro-passing rule changes in order to prevent Matt Flynn from giving his team an unfair advantage.

Four Quarterbacks have ever thrown for 475+ yards and 6 TDs in a game. YA Tittle, Joe Namath, Joe Montana, and Matt Flynn. That's three HOFers and one future HOFer. Flynn already has a national championship in college and a Superbowl ring in the pros, so I don't think it's premature to put him in the discussion for best QB of all time.

J-Mike88
01-03-2012, 08:41 PM
FYI: The NFL and The Associated Press will announce the annual league awards, including Most Valuable Player, in a two-hour prime-time special "NFL Honors" to air on NBC on Super Bowl eve, Feb. 4.

All seven AP NFL awards will be presented from 8 to 10 p.m. CST live from the Murat Theater in Indianapolis during a show hosted by "30 Rock" star Alec Baldwin.

The show will feature a live performance by Lenny Kravitz and appearances by Hall of Famers Jerry Rice, Barry Sanders, Deion Sanders, Shannon Sharpe and Steve Young.

The awards program will be preceded by a red carpet show on NFL Network from 7 to 8 p.m. CST.

In addition to MVP, the league will announce the winner of the Walter Payton NFL Man of the Year Award, which recognizes a player's community service as well as playing excellence.

The other AP awards are Coach of the Year, Comeback Player, Defensive Player and Defensive Rookie, and Offensive Player and Offensive Rookie. Should be fun......

BaLLiN
01-03-2012, 09:14 PM
discount doublecheck

jsagan77
01-04-2012, 02:46 AM
Four Quarterbacks have ever thrown for 475+ yards and 6 TDs in a game. YA Tittle, Joe Namath, Joe Montana, and Matt Flynn. That's three HOFers and one future HOFer. Flynn already has a national championship in college and a Superbowl ring in the pros, so I don't think it's premature to put him in the discussion for best QB of all time.


I thought carson palmer did it before as well? May not have eclipsed the yards but i recall he had a 6 TD performance w/ pretty descent yardage

BerninWI
01-04-2012, 09:55 PM
I don't see why Ted Thompson being more conscious about addressing his backup QB situation and having a better eye for talent should make Aaron Rodgers look worse or less important to his team than guys like Brees and Manning.

In his first year as GM, Thompson drafted Rodgers when 23 other teams passed on him and even though the Packers already had an established quarterback in Favre.

Then 3 years later, even though Rodgers was in the fold, Thompson spent 2nd and 7th rounder on QB's. The 2nd rounder was Brian Brohm, who was an unmitigated disaster, one of the worst QB's ever in the league, to wit shows the Green Bay offensive "system" isn't going to make a QB anything their not. The system couldn't even make Favre look good in 2 of his 3 years in it, when he posted among the worst QB ratings in the NFL (70.9, 72.7). But I digress, going back to the draft picks, the 7th rounder was Matt Flynn. He has accomplished something in the system that Brian Brohm or Favre in 2 of 3 years could not, and that's be an effective QB. 2 for 3 Ted Thompson on QB draft picks, that isn't bad.

Now look at how Polian and Loomis addressed their backup quarterback situations or showed an eye for talent at the position.

Polian drafted Manning with the 1st pick in the draft his first year on the job. That doesn't indicate he has some kind of great eye for talent because it's what a good majority of GM's in the league would have done. And since drafting Manning in '98, Polian invested a whole 2 picks in 13 drafts on QB's, both 6th rounders, one being Jim Sorgi and the other Curtis Painter. Both were backups much of the time in college even. Polian just came out today and admitted today his biggest regret as Colts' GM was not having a backup plan in case the ironman Peyton Manning actually got hurt. No kidding.

As for Loomis, he acquired Brees after he was already a proven quarterback in the NFL. That doesn't indicate he has an eye for talent with quarterbacks in general. Since becoming GM in '02, draft-wise he's only invested the occasional later round pick on a QB, none of them having done anything of note in the NFL. Brees' current backup was an undrafted FA.

That's why the Packers have a backup QB who can come in and not cause the team to implode, unlike the Colts and possibly the Saints (Daniel hasn't had much of a chance, unlike Flynn because of Rodgers' and the Packers' greater success which some ironically are now holding against them).

But still, in spite of the amount of the strong performance(s) by Flynn, that doesn't mean Rodgers isn't more valuable to his team than anyone else in the league. The Packers' record is 15-1, putting them as the favorites to win the Super Bowl. That's everyone's goal isn't it? Could they do it with Flynn? I HIGHLY doubt it. The difference between Rodgers and Flynn, is that even in probably one of the best games Flynn will probably ever play, he committed 2 turnovers which were both mostly his fault and caused big point swings, whereas in most games Rodgers hasn't committed a turnover and half the time it's clearly been someone else's fault. That's why, in conjunction with the typically weak Packers' defense, Flynn needed to engineer a comeback at the end. Rodgers has cruised to victory in 14 of his 16 games, and won one while losing the other when he didn't. Flynn wouldn't make the Packers a legit Super Bowl contender even with that performance, winning some at the end and losing others.

Rodgers is no more of a system QB than Brees and Manning, has put up better efficiency #'s by far than any other QB in the league this season, guided his team to a better record, and they wouldn't have been in near the position to achieve the ultimate goal with his backup replacing him. Rodgers is the MVP.

Bengalsrocket
01-05-2012, 01:05 AM
I thought carson palmer did it before as well? May not have eclipsed the yards but i recall he had a 6 TD performance w/ pretty descent yardage

Carson threw six against a bad Brown's defense once, yes. Plenty of QB's have thrown for 6 TD's though. Drew Brees and Peyton Manning both have I believe. Montana and Bob Griese definitely have too.

jackalope
01-05-2012, 10:43 AM
So far, of the 50 MVP voters, ten have stated their votes, all of which are for Rodgers.

NY+Giants=NYG
01-05-2012, 10:48 AM
Come back player of the year: Victor Cruz!

NY+Giants=NYG
01-05-2012, 10:50 AM
So far, of the 50 MVP voters, ten have stated their votes, all of which are for Rodgers.

I vote AR, so now you have 11! : P