PDA

View Full Version : Who is the best in this category?


MidwestJimmy
12-28-2011, 12:51 PM
The Pro-Bowl list has been released. I have noticed a trend in recent years. Because of the number of 3-4 defenses in the NFL nowadays, and because sacks get more attention than tackles and pass deflections, most of the Pro-Bowlers from the OLB spot are from 3-4 defenses. Lance Briggs has been the only OLB Pro-Bowler from a 4-3 D the last couple of years.

Who do you think is the best OLB from a 4-3 defense in the AFC? (Briggs is an actual Pro-Bowler from the NFC and obviously the best in the league.) I'm not saying they should have made All-Pro over the edge rushers. I'm just asking who's the best in their category.

AntoinCD
12-28-2011, 12:54 PM
Aaron Curry...he was drafted 4th overall

But seriously it's still Briggs at the minute but I really like Chad Greenway and Sean Weatherspoon

Edit**I'm not 100% what the Broncos play all the time but Von Miller has got to be up there if they are in the 43 and he is at OLB most of the time.

Ignore all this I didn't see AFC in the post***

I would probably go Daryl Smith from the listed options but there aren't many good ones in the AFC

tjsunstein
12-28-2011, 12:58 PM
The best 4-3 OLB from an AFC team? I'm sure you can do a little research and list the OLB who actually play 4-3 in the AFC and form your own opinion from there. You're going to get little to no informative response this way.

Some teams run a 4-3 package alongside of their base D 3-4, I've seen the Bills do it from time to time.

Other teams such as the Browns and Bengals are pretty set on the 4-3.

Then there is a team like the Broncos who alternate both.

What you should do, is list the players you think qualify for your own sake, and have the discussion start from there.

MidwestJimmy
12-28-2011, 01:02 PM
Antoin, I know you're joking about Curry, but that's an interesting case. He actually played on the edge in the Seahawks 4-3 under defense, even though he never played there in college. That was a mistake. He got traded to Oakland, who moved him back to the second level. He is more comfortable there, as he is good at covering tight ends.

I decided not to list Sean Witherspoon of the Titans because I haven't come across his name lately in my reading. But that doesn't mean he isn't still effective. Chad Greenway is good, but the poll is AFC only (since all of their OLB Pro-Bowlers are edge players).

tjsunstein
12-28-2011, 01:04 PM
Daryl Smith has been an underrated player for quite some time, so I'll throw some love his way. Chris Gocong has never impressed me and at points in his career, I thought D.J. Williams would become a top 5 LB.

AntoinCD
12-28-2011, 01:06 PM
Daryl Smith has been an underrated player for quite some time, so I'll throw some love his way. Chris Gocong has never impressed me and at points in his career, I thought D.J. Williams would become a top 5 LB.

I always thought Gocong would be better to suited to a 34 OLB spot and the only thing of note he has done all season was the 4 goal line plays in a row. But yeah, even at Philly I never really thought he was that good

MidwestJimmy
12-28-2011, 01:08 PM
You're going to get little to no informative response this way.

I normally go on the message board on CBSsportsline. But most posters there are so lowbrow that I took this question here instead.

Another question we could discuss is should the Pro-Bowl ballot have separate categories for 4-3 OLBs, edge linebackers, and 3-4 ends?

tjsunstein
12-28-2011, 01:20 PM
Well your first mistake was going to CBS in the first place. I'm torn on this question because I think too many players are handed the pro bowl label as it is with players not playing because of injury, personal reason, and now because of the super bowl. I do however feel like some players get overlooked because they don't possess the same gaudy stats we all have come to love because of the system they play in. Something needs to be done in my opinion to separate the defensive system players but I think that this concern is largely among the people who pay too much attention to it like ourselves. I guess the current system has worked itself out but when you have 120 pro bowlers a year the achievement becomes less impressive.

BamaFalcon59
12-28-2011, 01:24 PM
Spoon is going to be one of the best for a long time.

K Train
12-28-2011, 01:35 PM
Antoin, I know you're joking about Curry, but that's an interesting case. He actually played on the edge in the Seahawks 4-3 under defense, even though he never played there in college. That was a mistake. He got traded to Oakland, who moved him back to the second level. He is more comfortable there, as he is good at covering tight ends.

I decided not to list Sean Witherspoon of the Titans because I haven't come across his name lately in my reading. But that doesn't mean he isn't still effective. Chad Greenway is good, but the poll is AFC only (since all of their OLB Pro-Bowlers are edge players).

thats will witherspoon....just a spoon technicality

i havent really looked to hard at the rosters but im assuming von miller made it off of the sexiness he puts on the field? its tough putting any 43 OLB in the probowl over 34 OLBs for the exact same reason you cant put 34 DEs over 43 DEs....sack totals

RaiderNation
12-28-2011, 01:40 PM
Not saying he deserves a Pro Bowl selection, but as other posters have stats Aaron Curry has made huge improvements since he was traded to Oakland. He has been our all around best LB, and has a few highlight hits this season. It McClain can stop pointing guns a people our LB group will be very solid.

K Train
12-28-2011, 01:41 PM
he just fired a few rounds next to someones ear....i dont see the harm personally


lol

keylime_5
12-28-2011, 01:42 PM
I always thought Gocong would be better to suited to a 34 OLB spot and the only thing of note he has done all season was the 4 goal line plays in a row. But yeah, even at Philly I never really thought he was that good

Gocong is a stud. Not a guy who makes a ton of tackles but he's sound in coverage and at controlling his gap. Our coaches/GM and opposing teams coaches rave about the guy though he's underappreciated by fans. Was playing WILL this year until Scott Fujita went on IR, then he moved to SAM and was just a beast against Pittsburgh and Arizona. He was just solid in Mangini's 3-4 as an ILB, but has really blossomed in Dick Jauron's system as a versatile thumper.

keylime_5
12-28-2011, 01:44 PM
The Pro-Bowl list has been released. I have noticed a trend in recent years. Because of the number of 3-4 defenses in the NFL nowadays, and because sacks get more attention than tackles and pass deflections, most of the Pro-Bowlers from the OLB spot are from 3-4 defenses. Lance Briggs has been the only OLB Pro-Bowler from a 4-3 D the last couple of years.

Who do you think is the best OLB from a 4-3 defense in the AFC? (Briggs is an actual Pro-Bowler from the NFC and obviously the best in the league.) I'm not saying they should have made All-Pro over the edge rushers. I'm just asking who's the best in their category.

You know Von Miller is sack machine and he plays in a 4-3 front. Yes, he does play at the LOS as a glorified DE a lot of the time, but still he's technically a 4-3 SAM linebacker.

A lot of people think it's unfair to 4-3 OLBs that the 3-4 OLBs get all the pro bowl berths and accolades b/c they get sacks......but really guys like DeMarcus Ware and James Harrison, etc. are OLBs even if they play in a 4-3 and would be used like Von Miller or Roosevelt Colvin are/were, so I think it's fair that they get voted into the pro bowl at the expense of 4-3 guys who aren't pass rushers. If you are as good as Lance Briggs or Derrick Brooks you'll get into the pro bowl even if there are other guys who get 10+ sacks in 3-4 fronts.

MidwestJimmy
12-28-2011, 01:59 PM
Yes, Will Witherspoon. Sorry.

You know Von Miller is sack machine and he plays in a 4-3 front. Yes, he does play at the LOS as a glorified DE a lot of the time, but still he's technically a 4-3 SAM linebacker.

You are correct. That's why I counted him among the edge guys like Harrison and Suggs. The poll is for "traditional" OLBs in the AFC who play mostly on the "second level" with the ILB.

DraftSavant
12-28-2011, 02:17 PM
You know Von Miller is sack machine and he plays in a 4-3 front. Yes, he does play at the LOS as a glorified DE a lot of the time, but still he's technically a 4-3 SAM linebacker.

A lot of people think it's unfair to 4-3 OLBs that the 3-4 OLBs get all the pro bowl berths and accolades b/c they get sacks......but really guys like DeMarcus Ware and James Harrison, etc. are OLBs even if they play in a 4-3 and would be used like Von Miller or Roosevelt Colvin are/were, so I think it's fair that they get voted into the pro bowl at the expense of 4-3 guys who aren't pass rushers. If you are as good as Lance Briggs or Derrick Brooks you'll get into the pro bowl even if there are other guys who get 10+ sacks in 3-4 fronts.

Yeah, who has their hand on the ground, who is standing up, etc. really doesn't mean anything.

People have used this example countless times, but Wade Phillips' defense isn't really a 3-4. Defenses are defined by their fronts and gap responsibilities. If a 3-4 team is 1-gapping and lining up shaded in gaps, the responsibilities of the players doesn't really differ (at all) from a 1-gap 4-3. To use Phillips as an example again... his 3-4 over front in Dallas (with Ware at WOLB and Ratliff at RDE), is virtually identical scheme-wise to the 4-3 under front that Tampa would run with Rice and Sapp. The only difference is that Ware stood up.

http://img15.imageshack.us/img15/1315/71364761.jpg

MidwestJimmy
12-28-2011, 03:31 PM
Actually, if you think a 4-3 guy should have replaced Clay Matthews or DeMarcus Ware on the NFC squad (such as Chad Greenway mentioned earlier), feel free with that opinion too. The poll is just AFC because Briggs made the NFC team.

J-Mike88
12-28-2011, 04:52 PM
Give me Gocong.

Bengalsrocket
12-28-2011, 05:46 PM
I voted for Thomas Howard just to be different :)))))))))

ChiFan24
12-28-2011, 09:55 PM
I'd say Darryl Smith is a pretty easy answer here. Gocong and Williams next, then Thomas Howard.

Brown Leader
12-28-2011, 11:58 PM
Gocong is a stud. Not a guy who makes a ton of tackles but he's sound in coverage and at controlling his gap. Our coaches/GM and opposing teams coaches rave about the guy though he's underappreciated by fans. Was playing WILL this year until Scott Fujita went on IR, then he moved to SAM and was just a beast against Pittsburgh and Arizona. He was just solid in Mangini's 3-4 as an ILB, but has really blossomed in Dick Jauron's system as a versatile thumper.
http://27.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lqbm4w9Ofi1qmaa4ro1_500.gif

GaMeTiMe
12-29-2011, 12:42 AM
By all means, all of these players are underrated and it's showing in this thread. Not that I was watching Phillip Wheeler all season, but I know he's had a very solid season and the Bengals didn't lose Dhani Jones and Keith Rivers and still have such a great defense without someone stepping up, that was Howard.

I'd pick one of those two, but this just shows how the traditional 4-3 OLB (along with the traditional fullback) is becoming more obsolete every season - other than Briggs, Miller, Weatherspoon and Greenway, this poll probably features the top players at the position in the entire league right now

descendency
12-29-2011, 09:57 AM
It's the pro bowl. They're just filling a roster to play a meaningless game.

Maybe you add some categories to the All Pro team, but then do you start selecting long snappers and long distance place kickers to the AP team?

It's tough to evaluate the differences between a rush linebacker and a DE, but would you rather exclude a few of those guys? You can't really run a 34 at the pro bowl. So I can understand why flashy stats gets you into the game.

descendency
12-29-2011, 10:00 AM
Yeah, who has their hand on the ground, who is standing up, etc. really doesn't mean anything.

People have used this example countless times, but Wade Phillips' defense isn't really a 3-4. Defenses are defined by their fronts and gap responsibilities. If a 3-4 team is 1-gapping and lining up shaded in gaps, the responsibilities of the players doesn't really differ (at all) from a 1-gap 4-3. To use Phillips as an example again... his 3-4 over front in Dallas (with Ware at WOLB and Ratliff at RDE), is virtually identical scheme-wise to the 4-3 under front that Tampa would run with Rice and Sapp. The only difference is that Ware stood up.

http://img15.imageshack.us/img15/1315/71364761.jpg

Feel free to correct me if I am wrong, but wouldn't a guy rushing off the edge standing up typically be at a wider technique than one in a 3 point stance? Sure... there are 9 techs that rush from a down stance (philly), but isn't the norm to have standing guys wider than down ones?

DraftSavant
12-29-2011, 10:26 AM
Feel free to correct me if I am wrong, but wouldn't a guy rushing off the edge standing up typically be at a wider technique than one in a 3 point stance? Sure... there are 9 techs that rush from a down stance (philly), but isn't the norm to have standing guys wider than down ones?

It's a down and distance call more than anything. Most teams will play more of a loose-5 in passing situations than a full-blown 9. But you have to figure that this is still a base personnel defense that's meant to be matched up against a 2-back or 2-tight end base offensive personnel package. Line that edge man up too wide, and you completely hang the LB and alley player out to dry in any sort of run play.

Go_Eagles77
12-29-2011, 11:18 AM
Give me Gocong.

Never thought I'd see the day where these words were uttered.

ChiFan24
12-29-2011, 01:38 PM
It was only a matter of time before D.J. Williams won this thing based on name recognition....

robert pancake gallery
12-30-2011, 08:05 PM
chris gocong might honestly be the worst player in the entire NFL... how made his way into a 'best of' poll is beyond me.