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View Full Version : Should the Jets move on from Mark Sanchez?


JBCX
01-01-2012, 03:21 PM
In 2009 and 2010, the Jets got to the AFC Championship Game in spit of Mark Sanchez.

This year, he has remained, literally, the weakest link on a playoff-caliber team.

At some point, should they just move on and cut ties with Sanchez and try to find a decent QB? It appears that Sanchez is regressing and not progressing.

Or should they try to give him a better coaching staff and playmaking corps? Is Sanchez's career salvageable at this point?

Basileus777
01-01-2012, 03:23 PM
The question is, what are their options to replace him? Sanchez is clearly not a good quarterback, but it's not like there is an obvious candidate to start over him.

Hurricanes25
01-01-2012, 03:25 PM
I think it's time to replace him. I think the Jets need to start fresh with a new OC and a new QB. We also have problems at WR as Plax is probably gone and Holmes was benched or took himself out of the game at the end.

scottyboy
01-01-2012, 03:27 PM
the offense has no playmakers outside of really holmes and keller, but holmes is inconsistent and a headcase. Plax is old and not a #2 option at this point. Tomlinson nearing the end of his career while Shonn Greene is an ok RB. They've got no playmakers and go to guys on offense. So while Sanchez has been trash, he needs help around him

Complex
01-01-2012, 03:28 PM
They firing Shotty and I think ESPN said that the Jets will go after Norv Turner.

billybeejr
01-01-2012, 03:34 PM
I would like to see Norv with Sanchez, but I would LOVE to see what he can do with Josh Freeman.

AHungryWalrus
01-01-2012, 03:42 PM
I would like to see the Jets draft a QB in the first, and give Sanchez one more year to try to prove something, while he is on notice that his job is not even close to guaranteed.

That way, after next year, we have a new QB or a Sanchez that has put his **** together.

NY+Giants=NYG
01-01-2012, 03:53 PM
I think it's time to replace him. I think the Jets need to start fresh with a new OC and a new QB. We also have problems at WR as Plax is probably gone and Holmes was benched or took himself out of the game at the end.

I can't stand the Jets, but no, get him a new OC. And see what happens. We did that with Eli. We fired Hufangel, and promoted Gilbride, who was a huge improvement!

See what happens in a new system, and have patience. If he continues to stink, then cut bait.

Razor
01-01-2012, 03:56 PM
The question is, what are their options to replace him? Sanchez is clearly not a good quarterback, but it's not like there is an obvious candidate to start over him.

People are already saying Peyton Manning, but I would think the Jets will have a hard time fitting in Manning under the cap.

Leon Sandcastle
01-01-2012, 04:00 PM
NO please. Keep him for the lols.

PackerLegend
01-01-2012, 04:07 PM
Yes. Trade Revis for Flynn after we franchise him :D

Caulibflower
01-01-2012, 04:15 PM
I think he'll probably get at least one year. I think there's a pretty good chance he could be replaced after another year, but I do think he'll get another. Not sure why Jets fans would want, say, Matt Flynn over Sanchez going into next year. Who would you replace him with? Maybe Manning for a couple years, but the Jets aren't going to draft a QB to replace him, and there's not a whole lot to be done through free agency. Sanchez'll be there for a little while yet. He's still young, and he was a first round pick - it's only been three years. He'll get more time.

Hurricanes25
01-01-2012, 04:17 PM
I can't stand the Jets, but no, get him a new OC. And see what happens. We did that with Eli. We fired Hufangel, and promoted Gilbride, who was a huge improvement!

See what happens in a new system, and have patience. If he continues to stink, then cut bait.

Very possible the Jets do that. The year right after Pennington and Favre got out from underneath Schotty, they were both top 5 in MVP voting.

Schotty is a massive problem but Sanchez is so inaccurate at times and has really become gun-shy.

NY+Giants=NYG
01-01-2012, 04:32 PM
Very possible the Jets do that. The year right after Pennington and Favre got out from underneath Schotty, they were both top 5 in MVP voting.

Schotty is a massive problem but Sanchez is so inaccurate at times and has really become gun-shy.

You need a change. Now, like I said, I find Sanchise amusing when he stinks it up. But I am fair as well, and understand if we didn't fire Hufnagel we could have been in trouble!

Mind you, this is a guy who had Eli throw for 5th or something in the league, WHEN we had TIKI in his prime!!! Why?! How do you develop a QB when you increase his passing attempts, and don't let him learn?

Meanwhile, I see Ben in that rushing system with Bettis. They developed him the right way under Whisenhunt! We had stupid Huffy!

So maybe all you need is a change. Then make your evaluations. I think if you try playing him in this system, and he breaks, then I believe it will be harder for him to change and turn around from bad habits when indeed he does get cut and signs with another team.

Jimmy
01-01-2012, 04:35 PM
Landry Jones, anyone?

Saints-Tigers
01-01-2012, 04:41 PM
Like every QB, this board blames the scheme/playmakers around them. They're all studs, it's the supporting cast..

derza222
01-01-2012, 04:46 PM
The question is, what are their options to replace him? Sanchez is clearly not a good quarterback, but it's not like there is an obvious candidate to start over him.

I think this basically sums up the situation perfectly. If he can be clearly upgraded, go ahead and make the upgrade. But aside from Peyton Manning, which I'm not sure is that realistic, it's tough to see where exactly that upgrade is.

Bringing in another young guy could make sense too, but as scotty pointed out (I was just too lazy to double quote) this team has a lot of other holes on offense as well. Holmes isn't nearly as effective as he was last year with another receiver who teams had to pay attention to outside of the red zone. Burress isn't a threat to beat anyone deep. The playcalling is awful, receivers are rarely open like you see them in other games, and the run game isn't nearly as good as it was. Plus Hunter is a turnstile at right tackle, and Slauson isn't exactly dominant at left guard either. Offensive line play wasn't that good this year.

And aside from Holmes, who is very good but not the dominant type of receiver who will beat teams even when they focus on him like they have this year, there are really no big play threats on offense so they have to execute well for a number of plays in a row and go on long drives to score. There's no explosiveness, which makes things difficult and allows teams to really attack and play aggressively and it's hard to play against that kind of defense when you don't take shots deep and create big plays which is how you best hurt a defense that plays that way.

Now, does another quarterback find success in this situation? Absolutely possible, but again, the situation isn't excellent so I think if they go ahead and make an upgrade for the sake of making an upgrade it's a mistake and won't help things that much. If they can't find a legitimate upgrade, I think a new offensive coordinator to shake things up and upgrades on the OL and at skill spots could help. They also might not, and at that point I think you definitely have to just go ahead and cut ties. He'll be on the hot seat next year, and even if he does come back I think it would be good to bring in competition for him.

And that's the other option really, not completely cutting ties but also not handing him the starting job like they did in the past three years. If you can't find an upgrade, bringing in somebody who you think could do better to push him in camp and seeing how that goes could make sense. Don't really care if it shakes his confidence or anything, he's got to show something at this point and can't be coddled any more. In his three years, he hasn't shown that he should just be given a starting spot on a team.

To sum up, if there's a suitable option to move forward with besides Sanchez I think that makes sense. However, I'm not sure who that is, and even if they do find that guy there are plenty of other spots on offense that need upgrades.

scottyboy
01-01-2012, 05:30 PM
Like every QB, this board blames the scheme/playmakers around them. They're all studs, it's the supporting cast..

ehhh except Sanchez blows. I'm not defending him at all, he sucks. I'm just also saying that the offense around him is trash. His weapons aren't good, which doesn't help.

descendency
01-01-2012, 05:52 PM
Landry Jones, anyone?

Why not just trade for Jimmy Clausen.

Basileus777
01-01-2012, 09:57 PM
After this, you have to figure Holmes is likely gone. Without Santonio, the Jets have no legitimate playmakers and are really lacking when it comes to offensive talent. No matter what they do with Sanchez and Schotty, that offense is in pretty poor shape. The Jets are kind of at a crossroads, Rex has gotten that team to overachieve these past few years, but their run is looking to come to an end.

nepg
01-01-2012, 10:05 PM
I think Sanchez is alright. I like Schottenheimer, too. But I do think bringing in Norv Turner would be the best move over trying to replace the QB. Sanchez clearly has talent, but really hasn't been given the opportunity to develop properly or just hasn't gotten the right coaching to advance beyond being the guy who just tries to manage the offense behind a strong defense.

Norv can take him past this level. And if Norv can't, then it's time to start looking for another answer. What happened to Erik Ainge? I always liked him.

As for the draft, I like them going with Cousins in Round 3 or 4.

Rob S
01-01-2012, 10:05 PM
If I'm the Jets, I get Turner aboard and then call up the Bucs and see if they bite on Sanchez & picks package for Freeman. Or I make the offer of Sanchez and several #1's for Luck.

Brothgar
01-01-2012, 10:06 PM
Sanchez is a big problem but who is going to be available at that spot? Landry Jones? Ryan Tannehill ? Or maybe trade for Matt Flynn, Sign Jason Campbell, Shawn Hill? Chad Henne? I mean Personally I'd go the cheap rout get one of those other guys and draft some OL men for the right side of the line.

Brent
01-01-2012, 10:10 PM
Is Sanchez's career salvageable at this point?
Salvageable? Yes; I would like to see what a he'll do with a new OC. Not that I have faith in him, just look at all the old Stafford vs Sanchez threads.

Sloopy
01-01-2012, 10:23 PM
In short, Yes. You don't have a franchise guy in Sanchez. However, this is easier said than done and I imagine they ride him until a good situation arises.

No point in wasting more time and resources in a risky situation like trying to pick up Flynn or something.

soybean
01-01-2012, 10:51 PM
The choices are slim pickins. We'll probably give him another season while upgrading our other holes and if he still can't get it done, they'll look for a replacement.

Scotty D
01-02-2012, 01:46 AM
I don't think you move on from Sanchez but you have to realize that he isn't the guaranteed QBOTF.

Having Brunell and McElroy as your back ups is a joke. They need to bring in a back up that can push Sanchez. Take a QB in the mid rounds that can develop.

Santonio Holmes is overrated. They need more WR talent on the team.

Of course like others have said, fire Schotty. He's gets too cute and I don't like how he calls a game.

Its not time to give up on him. The offense has other problems. But they need to continually look at QB options available to them.

BloodBrother
01-02-2012, 01:51 AM
They need to move on. He just isn't that good and isn't the QB they need to take them to the next level

they also need a new O coordinator

GaMeTiMe
01-02-2012, 02:29 AM
They can't give up on him, and they won't. This is what they signed up for by investing so much in moving up for him, and he responded with 2 AFCCG appearances, even if he didn't "lead" them there. They'll overhaul the offense in the off-season in regard to both personnel and coaching and give him his "no excuses" season, because if he were cut loose and flourished under a different regime the Jets will continue to be a laughing stock, even if they were to bring in Peyton for a few years (Remember, Favre was the missing piece too).

I live in NY and have watched a ton of Sanchez, he's not very good, plain and simple. Through the first few years he was obviously propped up by the team around him and every mistake he made came with the built-in "he's learning". That being said, he really hasn't gotten worse, he just hasn't gotten better. While the team around him slowly crumbled as every team does, his mistakes became more crippling and the resulting losses made it harder to keep saying "he's learning".

In his first two years, with every mistake he made Jet fans would almost just be happy to see the defense come back on the field and want to pinch Sanchez's cheeks as he ran off the field because it was so cute how he made his little mistakes - they were up 17-3 and the other team's #1 receiver had 1 catch for 2 yards. If it were a struggling team, Sanchez's seat would've been this hot a long time ago or we'd at least already be talking about the Jets needing to replace him to go anywhere.

I don't think he goes on next year and tears it up, no matter who he plays with or is coached by, but as a professional football franchise that invested that much in that pick and has so many other problems with basically every other area of the team other than CB, you don't go replacing your 25 year old QB who is still only entering his 4th season, albeit one that is make-or-break for his future in NY.

nepg
01-02-2012, 02:49 AM
With Sanchez, I really think he just hasn't been coached at all. The team is so focused on winning, and gameplanning for each game, I don't think they do much in the developmental areas. Especially at QB. Not that they've had a lot of them recently, but it seems like none of their draft picks have advanced from when they were rookies, Sanchez included.

Put Norv in there, and I think you see a completely different QB.

AHungryWalrus
01-02-2012, 10:27 AM
With Sanchez, I really think he just hasn't been coached at all. The team is so focused on winning, and gameplanning for each game, I don't think they do much in the developmental areas. Especially at QB. Not that they've had a lot of them recently, but it seems like none of their draft picks have advanced from when they were rookies, Sanchez included.

Put Norv in there, and I think you see a completely different QB.

That's simply RIDICULOUS. Like honestly.

Kyle Wilson has gotten significantly better since last year, Kerley has been playing better, McKnight has made significant strides.

We brought in Brunell specifically to help mentor and develop Sanchez. Just like any other team we have a coach specifically for quarterbacks who doesn't really work on the gameplan, he works on DEVELOPING Sanchez.

Just because Sanchez and Ducasse haven't really panned out doesn't mean we don't develop anyone. Thats ludicrous. Is Belichick developing anyone since HIS draft picks haven't been doing anything (other than the TE's)?

Da-Phins
01-02-2012, 11:11 AM
IF they were smart they would let him go and go try and find a real QB.

The Jets organization as a whole is a mess and I blame Ryx Ryan and his loudmouth for that.

bucfan12
01-02-2012, 11:24 AM
No. Stick with him. I didn't reallyl ike Sanchez to begin with, but if you take a QB with a top 5 pick and he played decent enough to take you to 2 AFC championship games, I'd give him up until his 5th year and then you'll see where you're at.

If I'm not mistaken, Peyton Manning didn't really hit it big until year 4 or 5?

gsorace
01-02-2012, 11:29 AM
The Jets organization as a whole is a mess and I blame Ryx Ryan and his loudmouth for that.

Talk about a complete overreaction. Seriously, what the **** are you talking about?

Da-Phins
01-02-2012, 11:39 AM
Talk about a complete overreaction. Seriously, what the **** are you talking about?

Lets see...every time when Rex opens his mouth he makes himself look like a fool and Im sure the players are starting to get tired of it, Rex and Shotty not on same page with benching of Holmes and Rex had no idea why he wasnt out there, sticking with a horrible QB, your "star" WR bitching and acting like a little girl, players questioning each other(thought I think its mostly towards Holmes), and Bart Scott getting all pissy with the media and I believe flipped them off. Not really a control leadership atmosphere.

SuperPacker
01-02-2012, 11:46 AM
The Jets should either get Ryan Tannehill or Landry Jones to sit behind Sanchez for one year then see how he does with some competition. If he fails again then get rid of him and if he steps it up you keep Sanchez as the starter.

DraftSavant
01-02-2012, 12:36 PM
Like every QB, this board blames the scheme/playmakers around them. They're all studs, it's the supporting cast..

Par for the course.

Isolate. The. Player.

bigbluedefense
01-02-2012, 12:36 PM
They should give up on him, but they can't really. To be fair to Sanchez, he deserves 1 more year to show if he's legit or not. If he's still a dud by year 4, then it's officially time to move on.

This decision really depends on who's available. Do you invest money and picks into Matt Flynn? Probably not. I rather roll the dice with Sanchez 1 more year to remove any doubt, then if he's a dud draft a qb.

If Peyton Manning is available do you make a move? I say hell yes if he's healthy.

If a qb is available in round 1 do you make a move? I can't answer that. I haven't scouted any qbs this year outside of Luck, RGIII and Barkley.

Me personally, I'm done with Sanchez. I think he is what he is, I doubt he turns the corner and becomes a great qb. But he does deserve 1 more year to prove it or disprove it.

AntoinCD
01-02-2012, 12:42 PM
The issue I have with Sanchez is...if the Jets get to the playoffs next year but Sanchez is still a lower, middle of the pack type guy it's not going to be easy to get away from him. For the Jets to be good with Sanchez everything has to be going right. It didn't this year and they weren't good. If the offensive line and running game pick it up next year the offense will look better but not because of Sanchez. I think this is the year to either hitch themselves to the Sanchez wagon or give up. I don't buy this "we'll give him one more year" type thing

Thecollegedropout
01-02-2012, 12:42 PM
That's simply RIDICULOUS. Like honestly.

Kyle Wilson has gotten significantly better since last year, Kerley has been playing better, McKnight has made significant strides.

We brought in Brunell specifically to help mentor and develop Sanchez. Just like any other team we have a coach specifically for quarterbacks who doesn't really work on the gameplan, he works on DEVELOPING Sanchez.

Just because Sanchez and Ducasse haven't really panned out doesn't mean we don't develop anyone. Thats ludicrous. Is Belichick developing anyone since HIS draft picks haven't been doing anything (other than the TE's)?
He's absolutely right though when it comes to Sanchez.

Kyle Wilson this past month stunk. Bess owned him big time yesterday, which the coaches thought it would be a bright idea to have Wilson play 5 yards away from Bess before a catch.

Brian Schottenheimer, the QB coach(Covanugh?!?! sp) failed this year. Likewise Callahan did too thinking Ducasse/Hunter is capable at RT(Though its less blame with him since Rob Turner was lost way too early).

No the Jets should not move on from Sanchez. He deserves 1 more season with a new cast of coaches on the offense. And while yes as we have seen with Alex Smith/Jason Campbell and how you mess them up with new coordinators, Sanchez sadly will not have the leeway to get more than 1 year with the coordinator unless he shows significant signs of improvement. May not be fair but the window of opportunity for this roster is slowly dropping so he will have to do his best to learn on the run.

Like alot of QBs, Sanchez got shellshocked by horrible protection(That includes D'Brick who was ass in some games) and in turn made quick throws off a bad throwing motion that were off the mark. Likewise, the gameplanning by the coaches was awful. 59 throws vs NYG is a laughable gameplan, the inability to give Greene more than 15 rushes per game is a joke considering he was being dubbed "The Franchise back" and not recognizing that the Jets don't have a long term threat is awful poor hindsight largely on Tannebaum AND Schottenheimer.

Any QB who has Wayne Hunter at RT will get hurt and play fast. Likewise, as shown yesterday Matthew Mulligan is a 10 yard penalty per play and when you **** up as much as he does, these 2nd and 18 plays right into the defense and screws Sanchez as a thrower. Add the disgraceful false start penalties(Jets have not been this sloppy with penalties in years) and that is something Sanchez cannot control, no matter what snap counts he does. That's on the O-Lineman and their lack of focus.

You take Braylon Edwards, Brad Smith and Jerricho Cotchery away, have Keller be neglected for 1/2 the season for god knows what reason(Good call Schotty) and have Burress around and trying to have Sanchez force feed Burress as a means to get him involved.

Sanchez gets 1 more year. I know Jet fans may not want to hear that but Sanchez got little to no help at all this year.

AntoinCD
01-02-2012, 12:47 PM
That's simply RIDICULOUS. Like honestly.

Kyle Wilson has gotten significantly better since last year, Kerley has been playing better, McKnight has made significant strides.

We brought in Brunell specifically to help mentor and develop Sanchez. Just like any other team we have a coach specifically for quarterbacks who doesn't really work on the gameplan, he works on DEVELOPING Sanchez.

Just because Sanchez and Ducasse haven't really panned out doesn't mean we don't develop anyone. Thats ludicrous. Is Belichick developing anyone since HIS draft picks haven't been doing anything (other than the TE's)?

Well I think belichick has a far longer track record of successful drafts than anyone on the Jets staff.

And as for those draft picks who aren't doing anything

Tom Brady
Matt Light
Logan Mankins
Sebastian Vollmer
Nate Solder
Deion Branch
Rob Gronkowski
Aaron Hernandez
Stevan Ridley

Vince Wilfork
Brandon Deaderick
Jerod Mayo
Brandon Spikes
Pat Chung
Devin McCourty

Pretty sure at least a few of those guys are doing stuff.

ElectricEye
01-02-2012, 12:54 PM
Yup, those guys are studs. Especially the defensive players who were such a big time part of this teams success.

Thecollegedropout
01-02-2012, 12:54 PM
The Jets should either get Ryan Tannehill or Landry Jones to sit behind Sanchez for one year then see how he does with some competition. If he fails again then get rid of him and if he steps it up you keep Sanchez as the starter.
Nah, bring in a Jason Campbell esque guy who can legit challenge for the job. A rookie QB does no good when you have a returning McElroy who at least has some familiarity with the teammates.

AntoinCD
01-02-2012, 01:07 PM
Yup, those guys are studs. Especially the defensive players who were such a big time part of this teams success.

Yup Vince Wilfork completely sucks, as does Mayo. I don't get why people have been giving these guys awards like all pro, pro bowl or defensive rookie of the year. Really they just suck.

Say what you want about how bad the defense has been, the good parts(with the exceptions of Carter and Anderson) were all drafted by BB

ElectricEye
01-02-2012, 01:42 PM
Yup Vince Wilfork completely sucks, as does Mayo. I don't get why people have been giving these guys awards like all pro, pro bowl or defensive rookie of the year. Really they just suck.

I don't get it either, to tell you the truth. Especially with Mayo. If those guys are so good...why are we so bad? But Deaderick, Spikes, and McCourty are totally hot studs. Love the plays those guys make consistently. Love the way those guys run up the field so quickly after getting gashed for big yardage every other play.

My qualms with my teams ****** defense aside, I think the Jets have to give Sanchez at least another year. It's not exactly reasonable to expect him to become an elite quarterback at this point though, regardless of the personnel around him. Sanchez was actually given a damn good environment to grow in as a quarterback, especially early. Two decent receivers most of the time, a very good tight end, an effective running game with backs who are involved in the passing game, decent offensive line play....I do agree with the line of thinking that he's likely the weakest link. He's still only 25 and you spend a very high draft pick on him though.

AHungryWalrus
01-02-2012, 01:54 PM
Well I think belichick has a far longer track record of successful drafts than anyone on the Jets staff.

And as for those draft picks who aren't doing anything

Tom Brady
Matt Light
Logan Mankins
Sebastian Vollmer
Nate Solder
Deion Branch
Rob Gronkowski
Aaron Hernandez
Stevan Ridley

Vince Wilfork
Brandon Deaderick
Jerod Mayo
Brandon Spikes
Pat Chung
Devin McCourty

Pretty sure at least a few of those guys are doing stuff.

My point was tongue in cheek. Belichick is the best coach in the NFL, and people look to the Patriots as the best, or one of the best, run organizations in football.

If you're denying that the past... 5 years... have been slightly more rough on the Pats in terms of draft talent, then you're kinda deluding yourself. The Pats right now are Tom Brady, Welker, Gronkowski, and Wilfork. Gronk is their only really important player drafted in the past 5 years. You could make the argument for Mayo, and maybe Mccourty after last year, but this year he played quite poorly.

So, my point is, since Belichick has had a couple misses lately, does this mean he can't develop talent?

Sanchez sucking is more to do with Sanchez not being a great quarterback in general. 90% of the time he wouldnt be a top 10 pick, but it was a weak quarterback year, and we were desperate.

Babylon
01-02-2012, 01:58 PM
The issue I have with Sanchez is...if the Jets get to the playoffs next year but Sanchez is still a lower, middle of the pack type guy it's not going to be easy to get away from him. For the Jets to be good with Sanchez everything has to be going right. It didn't this year and they weren't good. If the offensive line and running game pick it up next year the offense will look better but not because of Sanchez. I think this is the year to either hitch themselves to the Sanchez wagon or give up. I don't buy this "we'll give him one more year" type thing

No self respecting New England fan wants Sanchez to leave the Jets.

gsorace
01-02-2012, 02:18 PM
You take Braylon Edwards, Brad Smith and Jerricho Cotchery away, have Keller be neglected for 1/2 the season for god knows what reason(Good call Schotty) and have Burress around and trying to have Sanchez force feed Burress as a means to get him involved.

Edwards, Smith, and Cotchery didn't do anything this season, didn't Edwards just get cut? Plax had more TDs than those 3 guys combine, not bringing those guys back was the right move.

JBCX
01-02-2012, 02:20 PM
The Jets will never win a Super Bowl with Mark Sanchez.

If they want to have a shot at a Super Bowl, they need to move on.

nepg
01-02-2012, 02:39 PM
My point was tongue in cheek. Belichick is the best coach in the NFL, and people look to the Patriots as the best, or one of the best, run organizations in football.

If you're denying that the past... 5 years... have been slightly more rough on the Pats in terms of draft talent, then you're kinda deluding yourself. The Pats right now are Tom Brady, Welker, Gronkowski, and Wilfork. Gronk is their only really important player drafted in the past 5 years. You could make the argument for Mayo, and maybe Mccourty after last year, but this year he played quite poorly.

So, my point is, since Belichick has had a couple misses lately, does this mean he can't develop talent?

Sanchez sucking is more to do with Sanchez not being a great quarterback in general. 90% of the time he wouldnt be a top 10 pick, but it was a weak quarterback year, and we were desperate.
The past 5 years have been some of the best years for the Pats in terms of drafting. The key is, aside from '07, they haven't done that great of a job finding free agents to supplement the young talent with.

Just about their entire roster is guys they drafted or UDFAs in the last 4 drafts...

Jvig43
01-02-2012, 04:01 PM
The Jets will never win a Super Bowl with Mark Sanchez.

If they want to have a shot at a Super Bowl, they need to move on.

Now the entire Bengals, Raiders, and Titans teams are going to get into a plane accident leaving the open playoff spot open for the Jets to make a historic super bowl run. Congratulations, you just murdered about 200 people and killed three franchises due to your ****** predictions, the Redskins say thank you for ******* them by the way.

cmarq83
01-02-2012, 04:09 PM
IMO the Jets need to move on from Sanchez. The Jets just aren't as talented of a team as they have been in recent years, and even with marginal improvements from Sanchez (lets say he settles in the Flacco~Ryan range) I still don't think they'll have enough to win the Superbowl. A good portion of the roster was constructed with bold moves which were of the win now variety, but unfortunately Sanchez wasn't ready.

Now, the Jets have no flexibility the next couple of years because they're sitting right up against the cap, and have important guys like Pouha and Leonard to sign. Cutting Sanchez would leave them with over $9 million to spend on another QB. It's a risky proposition, but considering the fact that they're probably going nowhere good with Sanchez, and the core entire team is in place for the next 3-5 seasons they really don't have a great choice otherwise.

The team itself consists of about 15 good players, and just a disaster of a roster below it. The core 4 of Revis, Mangold, Harris, (and before this year) Ferguson is elite and in place. They have some other solid veterans mixed in there, but a few key injuries like Thomas,Turner, Leonard, Cumberland, and Mangold basically sunk them this season. The Jets have serious deficiencies at OT, WR, OLB, QB, and Safety and really can't address them to the point of making an impact because of how cap-tied they are. With the right QB however, they might be able to gloss over some of these deficiencies. With an offseason which will probably have Peyton Manning and Matt Flynn as UFA I think they have to make a move if Tannebaum and Rex want to keep their jobs past next season.

RaiderNation
01-02-2012, 04:13 PM
I can't see Jets moving on from Sanchez unless Rex Ryan gets fired. Those 2 seem like they have married fates, if one goes the other will likely follow. The Jets need to return to smash mouth football, replace LT with a younger bigger RB and draft a RT like Riley Reiff. They also need to get some playmakers in the front 7, and adding a pass rusher could also make sense.

nobodyinparticular
01-02-2012, 05:18 PM
The question is, what are their options to replace him? Sanchez is clearly not a good quarterback, but it's not like there is an obvious candidate to start over him.

Jason Campbell thinks he's a starting QB in the NFL...

Grizzlegom
01-02-2012, 05:21 PM
Jason Campbell thinks he's a starting QB in the NFL...

I hear Chad Henne also has this thought.

On a slightly more serious note, I also hear Chad Pennington still wants to make a comeback now that his knee and shoulder are healed up.

DraftSavant
01-02-2012, 08:21 PM
Riddle me this: aside from throwing between the hash marks when he has a clean pocket and can drive off his back foot, what does Sanchez do well?

DraftSavant
01-02-2012, 08:22 PM
edit: dbl post

Brothgar
01-02-2012, 08:41 PM
Jason Campbell & Chad Henne > Mark Sanchez

Iamcanadian
01-03-2012, 09:08 AM
I'm probably in the minority but I think Sanchez is just on the verge of a breakout year. He came to the Jets with a huge lack of experience in college with only 16 starts so it came as no surprise to me that his learning curve is taking some time. Add in the fact that the weapons around him on offense are less than top notch and blaming him alone for the offensive drop off seems way too extreme.
The Jets offense under Ryan wants to run a ball control offense with some ability to strike deep on occasion. Where is their running attack??? It took a steep nosedive this past season and I'm not sold on the Holmes/Burress combo at WR. Both have lost a step especially Burress and aren't scaring anybody.
Too many aging veterans at the skill positions, the Jets need to go into the draft and FA and find a stud at RB and some youth at the WR positions if they want to seriously challenge the Pats for 1st place.
If the Jets can give Sanchez some real weapons, I think we'll see a huge breakout year from Sanchez.

Jvig43
01-03-2012, 09:28 AM
I'm probably in the minority but I think Sanchez is just on the verge of a breakout year. He came to the Jets with a huge lack of experience in college with only 16 starts so it came as no surprise to me that his learning curve is taking some time. Add in the fact that the weapons around him on offense are less than top notch and blaming him alone for the offensive drop off seems way too extreme.
The Jets offense under Ryan wants to run a ball control offense with some ability to strike deep on occasion. Where is their running attack??? It took a steep nosedive this past season and I'm not sold on the Holmes/Burress combo at WR. Both have lost a step especially Burress and aren't scaring anybody.
Too many aging veterans at the skill positions, the Jets need to go into the draft and FA and find a stud at RB and some youth at the WR positions if they want to seriously challenge the Pats for 1st place.
If the Jets can give Sanchez some real weapons, I think we'll see a huge breakout year from Sanchez.

Did you just decide to come on here today and start posting the most asinine things? That offense was very talented his first two years when the O-line was healthy, Braylon was actually making plays, LT had a great year last year as well. I said it before but Sanchez inherited one of the most talented teams when he came to the Jets on both sides of the ball. They reached the AFC championship twice and he played better in the playoffs but alot of wins were in spite of his performance, the defense wasn't up to snuff this year to keep them around in games. What is it that you have seen from him to make you believe he's all of a sudden going to have a break out performance? Sanchez has ******* weapons, thats a cop out excuse for Sanchez and I thought people were coming around to knock those kind of excuses off.

DraftSavant
01-03-2012, 10:53 AM
I'm probably in the minority but I think Sanchez is just on the verge of a breakout year. He came to the Jets with a huge lack of experience in college with only 16 starts so it came as no surprise to me that his learning curve is taking some time. Add in the fact that the weapons around him on offense are less than top notch and blaming him alone for the offensive drop off seems way too extreme.
The Jets offense under Ryan wants to run a ball control offense with some ability to strike deep on occasion. Where is their running attack??? It took a steep nosedive this past season and I'm not sold on the Holmes/Burress combo at WR. Both have lost a step especially Burress and aren't scaring anybody.
Too many aging veterans at the skill positions, the Jets need to go into the draft and FA and find a stud at RB and some youth at the WR positions if they want to seriously challenge the Pats for 1st place.
If the Jets can give Sanchez some real weapons, I think we'll see a huge breakout year from Sanchez.

My question still stands: if you isolate Sanchez, what does he do well besides throw between the hashes when his pocket is clean and he can drive off his back foot (which any starting NFL QB can do).

I've heard this comp a few times from the NFL Matchup guys (Jaws, Hodge, and, most notably, Greg Cosell): there really isn't any difference between Mark Sanchez and Rex Grossman. Grossman's more careless with the ball, but they're both highly inaccurate passers who struggle throwing outside the numbers and downfield.

Iamcanadian
01-03-2012, 11:08 AM
Did you just decide to come on here today and start posting the most asinine things? That offense was very talented his first two years when the O-line was healthy, Braylon was actually making plays, LT had a great year last year as well. I said it before but Sanchez inherited one of the most talented teams when he came to the Jets on both sides of the ball. They reached the AFC championship twice and he played better in the playoffs but alot of wins were in spite of his performance, the defense wasn't up to snuff this year to keep them around in games. What is it that you have seen from him to make you believe he's all of a sudden going to have a break out performance? Sanchez has ******* weapons, thats a cop out excuse for Sanchez and I thought people were coming around to knock those kind of excuses off.

Well, let's see, his HC believes in him, he got the Jets to the playoffs twice in his first 2 years and he hasn't really had a breakout year.
The rushing yards dropped about 45 yards a game and Braylon wasn't around anymore, replaced by Burress, a huge drop off IMO. We'll see next year who is right, your HC or you, then we'll know who the ass is????HeHeHe

Iamcanadian
01-03-2012, 11:17 AM
My question still stands: if you isolate Sanchez, what does he do well besides throw between the hashes when his pocket is clean and he can drive off his back foot (which any starting NFL QB can do).

I've heard this comp a few times from the NFL Matchup guys (Jaws, Hodge, and, most notably, Greg Cosell): there really isn't any difference between Mark Sanchez and Rex Grossman. Grossman's more careless with the ball, but they're both highly inaccurate passers who struggle throwing outside the numbers and downfield.

Again, I repeat, his HC BELIEVES in him, that says a lot to me even if you want to ignore it. As a very, very inexperienced QB, he took the Jets to 2 solid playoff runs and is a heck of a lot more polished than Grossman ever dreamed of being.
The team dropped 45 rushing yards a game off of last season and that made the Jet's offense useless because Ryan wants to win with a run first offense and without a stud at RB, it just collapsed this year, but even then, the Jets were in contention right up till the end.
I could be wrong, I have been before, but I see a breakout year coming next season, it all adds up: very, very inexperienced coming out of college, needed a lot of time to bring his learning curve up to snuff, yet he took the Jets to 2 Divisional finals even with his lack of experience.
We'll see next year who is right!!!

DraftSavant
01-03-2012, 11:48 AM
Again, I repeat, his HC BELIEVES in him, that says a lot to me even if you want to ignore it.

This is cliche word vomit. What does it even mean? Coaches don't tell you how they feel about players with a microphone in their face. They tell you what they think about their players by gameplanning and play selection.

So, basically, Rex Ryan believes in Mark Sanchez enough to minimize his impact on the game as much as possible. With their backs against the wall and needing a win to stay alive in the playoff hunt, Rex and Schottenheimer tore the chains off of Sanchez against the Giants. And the result was a spectacular failure.

[quote]As a very, very inexperienced QB, he took the Jets to 2 solid playoff runs and is a heck of a lot more polished than Grossman ever dreamed of being.

Is this narrative or evaluation? Did he "take" the Jets to 2 solid playoff runs, or was he along for the ride? Why did he "take" them any more than Vince Young/Tebow "just win games"? Or any more than Grossman "took" the Bears to the Superbowl as a youngster?

The team dropped 45 rushing yards a game off of last season and that made the Jet's offense useless because Ryan wants to win with a run first offense and without a stud at RB, it just collapsed this year, but even then, the Jets were in contention right up till the end.

But his coach believes in him!

Rex Ryan is a smart football mind. He's not banging his head against the wall for the sake of banging his head against the wall. I'm sorry, but if you think any head coach in today's NFL wants to hide his QB and minimize his QB's impact on the game, I don't know what to tell you. Even the most notorious of conservative, ball-control coaches started opening it up in the mid-2000s before retiring (Marty Schottenheimer and Bill Cowher, most notably).

I could be wrong, I have been before, but I see a breakout year coming next season, it all adds up: very, very inexperienced coming out of college, needed a lot of time to bring his learning curve up to snuff, yet he took the Jets to 2 Divisional finals even with his lack of experience.
We'll see next year who is right!!!

Yes, we shall.

Jvig43
01-03-2012, 11:52 AM
His head coach is more full of **** than anyone, every year he says he believes in things that just simply aren't true. Where are his three super bowl rings? How about division champ hats and T shirts? I don't care who Rex believes in, Sanchez is not a good QB. And again, the Jets got to the playoffs in spite of Sanchez (although I mentioned he did play better in the post season). Look what happens when the defense isn't a top unit and the ground game isnt working, they fall to a .500 team and miss the playoffs. HE didn't take the Jets to the playoffs, he got to sit back and throw five yard passes out to LT, and keller all the way to FG's while the defense shut everyone down. Did you happen to see something special in his 3 int game that kept them from the playoffs just last weekend? If we want to use your logic, Rex is a more polished QB because he actually "took" his team to the superbowl and Lovie believed in him. Well Gee, he must be a pretty great QB right? You stated it yourself, the run game dropped off and so did the defense and Sanchez was completely inadequate of putting the team on his shoulders or making the plays that needed to be made to get into the post season. Your argument isn't being backed up by anything other than Rex ryan says he's good (that fat turd says alot of stupid things that aren't true), and that he made it to the AFC championship (yet you already pointed out they are only going to win with a ground game, and when they don't Sanchez didn't take them anywhere). Youre ridiculous haha.

DraftSavant
01-03-2012, 11:54 AM
Circular logic is circular.

Iamcanadian
01-03-2012, 12:13 PM
Again, I repeat, his HC BELIEVES in him, that says a lot to me even if you want to ignore it.

This is cliche word vomit. What does it even mean? Coaches don't tell you how they feel about players with a microphone in their face. They tell you what they think about their players by gameplanning and play selection.

[QUOTE]Very true but until he dumps Sanchez, you have to believe in what he does, not just what he says. And what he does, is play Sanchez.

So, basically, Rex Ryan believes in Mark Sanchez enough to minimize his impact on the game as much as possible. With their backs against the wall and needing a win to stay alive in the playoff hunt, Rex and Schottenheimer tore the chains off of Sanchez against the Giants. And the result was a spectacular failure.

Here, you are contradicting yourself, you say Ryan minimizes his impact yet in the most important game of the season, he turned to Sanchez and said win it for us. Yes, Sanchez failed but did he really have the weapons compared to the Giants, I think not, was he in Eli class, I think not yet, could he get there, I think we'll find out next year. Again, I may be wrong but I just think it is way too early to jump all over the guy, and suggest your expectations were unrealistic to begin with.
Eli broke out in his 4th year and took the Giants to a SB win, before that he was a huge disappointment very similar to Sanchez.


Is this narrative or evaluation? Did he "take" the Jets to 2 solid playoff runs, or was he along for the ride? Why did he "take" them any more than Vince Young/Tebow "just win games"? Or any more than Grossman "took" the Bears to the Superbowl as a youngster?

Well, he did it 2 years in a row, usually players along for the ride can only do it once.
But I agree, the jury is still out, I'm not saying it isn't, just that I expect a lot more next year. Players do get better with experience especially QB's.


But his coach believes in him!

Rex Ryan is a smart football mind. He's not banging his head against the wall for the sake of banging his head against the wall. I'm sorry, but if you think any head coach in today's NFL wants to hide his QB and minimize his QB's impact on the game, I don't know what to tell you. Even the most notorious of conservative, ball-control coaches started opening it up in the mid-2000s before retiring (Marty Schottenheimer and Bill Cowher, most notably).

All I can say is he didn't try to hide him against the Giants, he clearly put the ball in his hand and said win it, which tells me he does believe in the guy for at least now.
I don't think Marty or Cowher ever wanted to open up the game a whole lot and I think Ryan is solidly in their corner as a HC. All he needs now is a stud RB to make his offense go.



Yes, we shall.

Ditto

soybean
01-03-2012, 12:27 PM
They reached the AFC championship twice and he played better in the playoffs but alot of wins were in spite of his performance, the defense wasn't up to snuff this year to keep them around in games.

This is a myth. They have not yet (ok maybe 1 2 tops) won a game where he had a horrible game and the jets still won.

My question still stands: if you isolate Sanchez, what does he do well besides throw between the hashes when his pocket is clean and he can drive off his back foot (which any starting NFL QB can do).


He has good numbers in the fourth quarter. (aside from these last couple weeks). Meaning he's good in the no huddle.

Jvig43
01-03-2012, 12:37 PM
This is a myth. They have not yet (ok maybe 1 2 tops) won a game where he had a horrible game and the jets still won.



He has good numbers in the fourth quarter. (aside from these last couple weeks). Meaning he's good in the no huddle.

1. They certainly won plenty of games when he wasn't good, maybe not horrible but certainly was not playing well.

2. No, it means he plays well against teams that decide to switch to the cover 2 for some inexplainable reason which allows my sister to make throws for huge chunks of yards. He plays well in the fourth when the cover 2 just allows teams to march down field. This has been a discussion on this board for awhile now, and it's amazing teams still try it.

soybean
01-03-2012, 12:38 PM
Is this narrative or evaluation? Did he "take" the Jets to 2 solid playoff runs, or was he along for the ride? Why did he "take" them any more than Vince Young/Tebow "just win games"? Or any more than Grossman "took" the Bears to the Superbowl as a youngster?


HE didn't take the Jets to the playoffs, he got to sit back and throw five yard passes out to LT, and keller all the way to FG's while the defense shut everyone down.

Well in all fairness, we should've made it to the superbowl in 2009. But it was actually our defense that ended up letting us down. (I'm not being a homer, watch a replay of the game). He had two huge TDs and all our defense needed to do was play solid defense for the rest of the game so we can maintain and add on to the lead with our power running game and vanilla offense. But Peyton figured the defense out and we ended up having to play catch up which is never a recipe for success.

The issue has never been with ability with Sanchez. The MAIN issue is his lack of progression. That's what bothers me. He hasn't really gotten any better than last year. We shouldn't have lost the games we were favored in. Also consistency is a big issue.

But it's not fair to minimize his last two years because of his short comings this year.

EDIT: fixed.

soybean
01-03-2012, 12:42 PM
1. They certainly won plenty of games when he wasn't good, maybe not horrible but certainly was not playing well.


He put up game manager numbers. Low yardage, average completion percentage and 1 or 2 tds.

I haven't really seen our defense win us a game when he's thrown multiple INTs.

CameronCropper
01-03-2012, 01:09 PM
I've never seen a quarterback regress as quickly as Mark Sanchez has done over the past season. It was awkward watching him against try to play the position by the end of the season.

Reckon the Jets will stick by him, which I understand from an investment point of view, but I don't think they should.

Jughead10
01-03-2012, 01:27 PM
My question still stands: if you isolate Sanchez, what does he do well besides throw between the hashes when his pocket is clean and he can drive off his back foot (which any starting NFL QB can do).

I've heard this comp a few times from the NFL Matchup guys (Jaws, Hodge, and, most notably, Greg Cosell): there really isn't any difference between Mark Sanchez and Rex Grossman. Grossman's more careless with the ball, but they're both highly inaccurate passers who struggle throwing outside the numbers and downfield.

Haha. I told my friends who are Redskins fans 3 weeks ago I'd rather have Grossman than Sanchez. At least when Grossman throws picks it is 40 yards down the field.

Matthew Jones
01-03-2012, 06:01 PM
Sanchez is better than he gets credit for and has made improvements every season; the Jets should keep him around and try to add more talent around him. Replacing Brian Schottenheimer is something worth looking into.

DraftSavant
01-03-2012, 06:09 PM
Well in all fairness, we should've made it to the superbowl in 2009. But it was actually our defense that ended up letting us down. (I'm not being a homer, watch a replay of the game). He had two huge TDs and all our defense needed to do was play solid defense for the rest of the game so we can maintain and add on to the lead with our power running game and vanilla offense. But Peyton figured the defense out and we ended up having to play catch up which is never a recipe for success.

The issue has never been with ability with Sanchez. The MAIN issue is his lack of progression. That's what bothers me. He hasn't really gotten any better than last year. We shouldn't have lost the games we were favored in. Also consistency is a big issue.

But it's not fair to minimize his last two years because of his short comings this year.

To say your defense let you down when the offense didn't score a single point in the second half is...meh.

I'd say that ability is an issue with Sanchez. He doesn't have great arm talent or accuracy. He's purely a rhythm and anticipation passer who needs nearly pristine conditions to have success.

I dunno, everyone wants to bang on Schotty, but there's a reason he's highly regarded around the league and has been coveted for HC jobs. Mike McCarthy was on a ****** 49er staff with a rookie Alex Smith when GB hired him (and I'm not saying Schotty is that level coach at all, but I think he's the one who actually gets a bad wrap with media and fans).

Iamcanadian
01-03-2012, 06:14 PM
Originally Posted by Iamcanadian

Is this narrative or evaluation? Did he "take" the Jets to 2 solid playoff runs, or was he along for the ride? Why did he "take" them any more than Vince Young/Tebow "just win games"? Or any more than Grossman "took" the Bears to the Superbowl as a youngster?

Soybean, don't want to be too picky but this isn't my quote.

ryno626
01-11-2012, 11:43 AM
http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/football/jets/ny-jets-players-bash-mark-sanchez-peyton-manning-gm-mike-tannenbaum-trade-young-quarterback-article-1.1004395

Well this got interesting...

“We have to bring in another quarterback that will make him work at practice,” said one player. “He’s lazy and content because he knows he’s not going to be benched.”


Here's an article from E!SPN too
http://espn.go.com/new-york/nfl/story/_/id/7450014/report-not-all-new-york-jets-love-mark-sanchez-eye-peyton-manning

DraftSavant
01-11-2012, 11:50 AM
"A source close to the team pointed out that Sanchez’s inability to handle mounting criticism prompted him to unfollow every Jets beat writer on Twitter earlier this season."

Hahahahahahaha

On Dec. 28, Sanchez denied the notion that he was a victim of a high standard set by going to two AFC Championship Games in his first two seasons.

"We hold ourselves to a high standard,” Sanchez said. “I don’t want to feel like I’m a victim or anything like that. We expect to win... I don’t feel like we’ve set the bar too high. There is no way. I don’t feel like that.”

Six days later, Sanchez expressed a much different outlook.

“You go to back-to-back AFC Championship Games, and everybody thinks, ‘OK, we’ll just get a little bit better and you are winning the Super Bowl,’” Sanchez told ESPN Radio on Jan. 3. “I don’t want to make excuses at all. That’s not my style. But we’ve kind of been a victim of our own success.”

tjsunstein
01-11-2012, 11:51 AM
Sanchez doesn't have the mental make up of an NFL QB, at least an NFL QB in New York.

DraftSavant
01-11-2012, 11:55 AM
Like I keep saying, "charisma" only gets you so far.

Complex
01-11-2012, 11:56 AM
This nydn.us/xnShGZ by @TheJetsStream is false. If "unnamed sources" want to attack Mark, man up and put your name to it #JETS- Mangold twitter

Jets cyber wars. I thought Jets people said Mark was a hard worker.

Giantsfan1080
01-11-2012, 11:58 AM
The Jets are a sinking ship. This is what happens when all your coach does is yap and sets high expectations and then you fail miserably to meet them.

Grizzlegom
01-11-2012, 11:59 AM
Twitterverse blowing up saying that with Sparano in NY now, good chance Henne follows him to push Sanchez. That's a winning combo right there.

Complex
01-11-2012, 12:02 PM
BTW I hate "unnamed sources and players" or "sources close to *insert name*".

TimD
01-11-2012, 12:02 PM
I hate to write a guy off after 3 years, but its kinda hard not to. He hasn't shown any sort of improvement over 3 seasons. I understand our RT and WR situation sucked last year, but if he's our franchise qb he should have battled through the adversity.

i always liked michigan before i got accepted into penn state so im not completely against chad henne, but hes not the answer either. i have no idea what they should do, but then again im not being paid to make those decisions.

mike t, rex, and now sparano need to figure something out. my message to them:

bVVsDIv98TA

Jughead10
01-11-2012, 12:03 PM
Sanchez doesn't have the mental make up of an NFL QB, at least an NFL QB in New York.

I don't think he's really cut to be a QB anywhere, let alone NY. The Jets don't let him do anything. Some think the Jets are too conservative, I think they are forced to do what they have to. We'll see this year. Haley will go nuts if Sanchez can't run what he wants him to if he also goes to the Jets to run their passing attack.

TimD
01-11-2012, 12:04 PM
BTW I hate "unnamed sources and players" or "sources close to *insert name*".

i agree. if youre going to talk ****, put your goddamn name out there too. be a man

Grizzlegom
01-11-2012, 12:05 PM
I hate to write a guy off after 3 years, but its kinda hard not to. He hasn't shown any sort of improvement over 3 seasons. I understand our RT and WR situation sucked last year, but if he's our franchise qb he should have battled through the adversity.

i always liked michigan before i got accepted into penn state so im not completely against chad henne, but hes not the answer either. i have no idea what they should do, but then again im not being paid to make those decisions. mike t, rex, and now sparano need to figure something out.

Sparano approves of Marc Colombo for RT!!

Jughead10
01-11-2012, 12:06 PM
i agree. if youre going to talk ****, put your goddamn name out there too. be a man

People will kill anyone for anything. McElroy puts his face to a quote and people say "Who the F are you to talk"?

Hurricanes25
01-11-2012, 12:06 PM
If Sanchez truly is lazy, I'm not surprised. He just seems to have that laid back SoCal attitude.

Yeah, I would love to know what player said it. My guess is Holmes.

Saints-Tigers
01-11-2012, 12:06 PM
This is gold, hahha.

TimD
01-11-2012, 12:08 PM
People will kill anyone for anything. McElroy puts his face to a quote and people say "Who the F are you to talk"?

thats a good point but at least he isnt hiding. he simply said what was on his mind


Yeah, I would love to know what player said it. My guess is Holmes.

yeah i agree. i could also see it being someone on defense who is sick of playing with the endzone at their backs because of sanchez..

cromartie maybe?

49erNation85
01-11-2012, 12:09 PM
stupid Jet fans haha..

TimD
01-11-2012, 12:09 PM
This is gold, hahha.

its pretty easy to laugh at other teams when drew brees is your qb. we cant all be so lucky

stupid Jet fans haha..

thanks for your contribution to the discussion

Complex
01-11-2012, 12:12 PM
thats a good point but at least he isnt hiding. he simply said what was on his mind




yeah i agree. i could also see it being someone on defense who is sick of playing with the endzone at their backs because of sanchez..

cromartie maybe?

It wasn't Cro

If your not for the team then get out." I think there's enough players that buy in, problem is news is never about the positive majority, it's the negative minority - Cro

Giantsfan1080
01-11-2012, 12:12 PM
The Jets defense has just as much blame as Sanchez for the way the year ended.

Saints-Tigers
01-11-2012, 12:12 PM
I laugh at how bi-polar the Jets are. It seems like the whole team was content with coddling Sanchez until they missed the post season. Now they want to *****.

TimD
01-11-2012, 12:16 PM
I laugh at how bi-polar the Jets are. It seems like the whole team was content with coddling Sanchez until they missed the post season. Now they want to *****.

yeah thats a good point.

its so frustrating because there is a lot of talent in place, but the lack of player leadership and a couple HUGE weak spots completely dismantled the team over the course of the season.

losing cotchery, smith, ellis, woody, and richardson now seems like it had a major impact upon the season. i also wish they kept braylon just for the deep threat. mike t really **** the bed last offseason

Saints-Tigers
01-11-2012, 12:21 PM
The whole team thinks like Rex now. Good streak= "We can't be beat, we're going to win it all!", bad streak= "We suck, and won't make the playoffs!"

Maybe I'm laughing because Rex annoys me so much.

bigbluedefense
01-11-2012, 12:45 PM
This is what happens Rex. This is what happens when you massage egos, tell guys they are better than they really are, take away all player accountability by always taking the blame yourself, gassing up players who need a kick in the pants, and getting a bunch of lockerroom cancers bc you think everyone wants to play for you and will be on good behavior for you.

This is what happens.

The Jets are falling apart, and it's going to get worse before it gets better. And it's very clear to me that Sanchez needs to go. He sucks. I'm done with him.

He'll get next year to prove himself, but he won't succeed. He'll get cut after next year, and who knows what happens with Rex. This ship is sinking fast.

Rex might not survive 2012 if this continues.

Jvig43
01-11-2012, 12:48 PM
Pretty much what BBD just said. Plus the Jets cap situation right now isn't going to allow them to do much in the off season either. As a Pats fan however I am content with seeing Sanchez start for the Jets another season. I think he's the only QB this season that didn't man handle our porous pass defense.

yodabear
01-11-2012, 01:47 PM
http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/football/jets/ny-jets-players-bash-mark-sanchez-peyton-manning-gm-mike-tannenbaum-trade-young-quarterback-article-1.1004395

Well this got interesting...

We have to bring in another quarterback that will make him work at practice, said one player. Hes lazy and content because he knows hes not going to be benched.


Here's an article from E!SPN too
http://espn.go.com/new-york/nfl/story/_/id/7450014/report-not-all-new-york-jets-love-mark-sanchez-eye-peyton-manning

Greg McElroy REALLY wants this job doesn't he....yes I am blaming him. People gonna be cowards and be unnamed players, I like to guess. I BLAM U MCELROY!

robert pancake gallery
01-11-2012, 02:03 PM
i say no; there aren't many single, good-looking quarterbacks in the NFL and this really isn't the time for the Jets to get picky. when the rex ryan foot fetish story came out i thought, what better way to connect with the fans on a personal level than to release a sanchez and rex ryan's wife foot fetish sex tape filmed with rex's commentary; they could have sanchez come into the locker room all sweaty and take his pants off while they pan down and show his dirty feet, then you see in the background rex's wife fondling herself while she looks onward. she comes out and starts sucking on mark's toes and they eventually assume a toe 69 position where they engage in a mutual masturbation session which culiminates in mark ejaculating all over the back of her ankles.

TimmG6376
01-11-2012, 02:29 PM
Greg McElroy REALLY wants this job doesn't he....yes I am blaming him. People gonna be cowards and be unnamed players, I like to guess. I BLAM U MCELROY!

Not sure if it is McElroy, but Derek Mason was right when he said that locker room was a cluster you-know-what.

bigbluedefense
01-11-2012, 02:32 PM
When Plax, Mason, and Santonio all went up to Rex to complain, I think they were all complaining about Sanchez, not Schotty. Just a hunch.

I wouldn't be surprised if Plax is one of the unnamed sources. And Bart Scott. I think some of those guys were defenders, bc they have no allegiance to Sanchez.

Crickett
01-11-2012, 03:10 PM
http://alltheragefaces.com/img/faces/png/happy-thumbs-up.png

Hooray, the Jets finally did what I'd been asking for years, they got rid of Brian Scottenheimer. I wonder if I should return to NFLDC to finally talk about the Jets and the rest of the NFL with intell.....


stupid Jet fans haha..

i say no; there aren't many single, good-looking quarterbacks in the NFL and this really isn't the time for the Jets to get picky. when the rex ryan foot fetish story came out i thought, what better way to connect with the fans on a personal level than to release a sanchez and rex ryan's wife foot fetish sex tape filmed with rex's commentary; they could have sanchez come into the locker room all sweaty and take his pants off while they pan down and show his dirty feet, then you see in the background rex's wife fondling herself while she looks onward. she comes out and starts sucking on mark's toes and they eventually assume a toe 69 position where they engage in a mutual masturbation session which culiminates in mark ejaculating all over the back of her ankles.

http://i1.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/square/000/005/180/fuckthat.jpg

the_dark_knight
01-11-2012, 03:15 PM
Yes.

No point in him being an NFL QB. He never was good, he got carried by an elite defense, ala Joe Flacco. Then again, doesn't hurt my feelings at all seeing the Jets dissolve.

Complex
01-11-2012, 04:38 PM
When Plax, Mason, and Santonio all went up to Rex to complain, I think they were all complaining about Sanchez, not Schotty. Just a hunch.

I wouldn't be surprised if Plax is one of the unnamed sources. And Bart Scott. I think some of those guys were defenders, bc they have no allegiance to Sanchez.

I am almost 100 percent sure that Holmes hated Schotty.



Anyways

"It was saying he was lazy, didn’t put the work in, felt complacent, and I think it couldn’t be more further from the truth," Mangold said. "The guy puts in more work and more time, cares more about the team than I think anybody else in that locker room. And for somebody to come out and say that, and not put their name behind it, really bothered me."
- Mangold

Ness
01-11-2012, 05:13 PM
I still think Sanchez has a good amount of potential. Maybe with better coaching he can thrive.

gpngc
01-11-2012, 05:27 PM
i say no; there aren't many single, good-looking quarterbacks in the NFL and this really isn't the time for the Jets to get picky. when the rex ryan foot fetish story came out i thought, what better way to connect with the fans on a personal level than to release a sanchez and rex ryan's wife foot fetish sex tape filmed with rex's commentary; they could have sanchez come into the locker room all sweaty and take his pants off while they pan down and show his dirty feet, then you see in the background rex's wife fondling herself while she looks onward. she comes out and starts sucking on mark's toes and they eventually assume a toe 69 position where they engage in a mutual masturbation session which culiminates in mark ejaculating all over the back of her ankles.

I agree for the same reason.

Brown Leader
01-12-2012, 12:44 AM
Plax, Holmes, and LT have all played with HOF QBs for most of their careers (yes, Eli too) and are expecting the same from Sanchez. He's not played at that level but he hasn't been near horrible either. Rex and Tannenbaum ought to recognize that he's he's one of their few draft picks that has panned out. If the rest of the squad doesn't get any better, he'll just get pushed out of town and play well for another playoff contender. They ought to just go for Manning and trade him now.

Jvig43
01-12-2012, 12:49 AM
When you say not near horrible, are you trying to speak about some other QB not named Mark Sanchez? Because if not I'm lost on what you take the words "not near horrible" to mean if youre using them to describe a near horrible QB.

SenorGato
01-12-2012, 02:14 AM
Pretty much what BBD just said. Plus the Jets cap situation right now isn't going to allow them to do much in the off season either. As a Pats fan however I am content with seeing Sanchez start for the Jets another season. I think he's the only QB this season that didn't man handle our porous pass defense.

Yes but that is because he was working with Brian Schottenheimer. Schottenheimer is known for not designing routes that get WRs open, not gameplanning plays that work, and never calling (sorry, dialing) up the right play. Addition by subtraction for Sanchez, who probably received +10 to his attributes immediately after Schottenheimer left.

BradysKnee
01-12-2012, 07:32 AM
Yes but that is because he was working with Brian Schottenheimer. Schottenheimer is known for not designing routes that get WRs open, not gameplanning plays that work, and never calling (sorry, dialing) up the right play. Addition by subtraction for Sanchez, who probably received +10 to his attributes immediately after Schottenheimer left.

Please stop protecting Sanchize with Schotty. A good QB makes things work. He doesn't. Playcalling in the NFL only is so much of the problem.

Look at Pittsburgh and even Baltimore. Awful OCs yet Ben and to a lesser degree Flacco still get it done.

Brothgar
01-12-2012, 09:20 AM
The only question when thinking of 'should x get rid of y' usually is can you get someone better? or I guess would it drastically help the cap situation so you can get a far superior player.

With the QBs coming on the market that at least have a chance to hit the market.

Chad Henne
Matt Flynn
Jason Campbell
Donovan McNabb
Kyle Orton
Shaun Hill
Drew Stanton

There is no consistency issue in fact Chad Henne may be more in tune with the Jets new offense than Sanchez so which QB do you choose?

bucfan12
01-12-2012, 09:37 AM
Yes but that is because he was working with Brian Schottenheimer. Schottenheimer is known for not designing routes that get WRs open, not gameplanning plays that work, and never calling (sorry, dialing) up the right play. Addition by subtraction for Sanchez, who probably received +10 to his attributes immediately after Schottenheimer left.

Shoetenheimer was a main factor in the success at improving Drew Brees in his last 2 years in San Diego.

I don't think Shotty was the problem.

SuperPacker
01-12-2012, 09:38 AM
The only question when thinking of 'should x get rid of y' usually is can you get someone better? or I guess would it drastically help the cap situation so you can get a far superior player.

With the QBs coming on the market that at least have a chance to hit the market.

Chad Henne
Matt Flynn
Jason Campbell
Donovan McNabb
Kyle Orton
Shaun Hill
Drew Stanton

There is no consistency issue in fact Chad Henne may be more in tune with the Jets new offense than Sanchez so which QB do you choose?

Henne, Flynn and Campbell are all improvements over Sanchez or would at least add competition. If i was the Jets i would be making sure i get one of these guys or draft a guy like Tannehill in April.

hockey619
01-12-2012, 09:47 AM
Shoetenheimer was a main factor in the success at improving Drew Brees in his last 2 years in San Diego.

I don't think Shotty was the problem.

yeah brees has really struggled without him...

how do we know shotty was responsible for his improvement? where was this magic with sanchez?

sanchez has dissappointed, but watching that offense i cant help but feel like its very poorly designed. it just seems like no one is ever really getting open and that nothing is really adjusted to situations and personnel. cant really explain what it is im seeing, but it just doesnt look like its all working.

AHungryWalrus
01-12-2012, 09:56 AM
This is what happens Rex. This is what happens when you massage egos, tell guys they are better than they really are, take away all player accountability by always taking the blame yourself, gassing up players who need a kick in the pants, and getting a bunch of lockerroom cancers bc you think everyone wants to play for you and will be on good behavior for you.

This is what happens.

The Jets are falling apart, and it's going to get worse before it gets better. And it's very clear to me that Sanchez needs to go. He sucks. I'm done with him.

He'll get next year to prove himself, but he won't succeed. He'll get cut after next year, and who knows what happens with Rex. This ship is sinking fast.

Rex might not survive 2012 if this continues.

I'm sorry, but this is a massive overreaction.

I mean, we were 8-8. After back to back AFC championship appearances, an 8-8 season gets Rex on the hot seat?

As for Sanchez, I don't see him improving next year either, but there should never be a close game where he is throwing 50+ times. Ever. So I think he will be able to hide a little better.

As for the Jets locker room falling apart, we have one unnamed source bashing Sanchez. Let's not rush to judgment, here.

Basileus777
01-12-2012, 09:57 AM
The Jets have mediocre to poor offensive talent and a bad qb. Schotty wasn't good, but he didn't have much to work with. Scheme is important, but it ultimately comes down to the players and the Jets aren't very talented on offense.

Jughead10
01-12-2012, 09:57 AM
There are no throws deep. Any coordinator will want to take his shots, even just a few times. I don't think they can with Sanchez. Remember that color coordinated system they devised for him a few years ago. You think any coach wants to do that? Of course not. They are forced to. Next year is Sanchez's year. If Haley comes, he won't stand for the hand holding BS.

Jughead10
01-12-2012, 09:59 AM
The Jets have mediocre to poor offensive talent and a bad qb. Schotty wasn't good, but he didn't have much to work with. Scheme is important, but it ultimately comes down to the players and the Jets aren't very talented on offense.

And they are slowly getting less talented on defense, without any promising young players to take over. Their last few drafts have been very poor.

DraftSavant
01-12-2012, 10:36 AM
The Jets are expected to "scale back the playbook" and focus on a ground-and-pound offensive approach under new coach Tony Sparano.
Sources tell ESPN New York that outgoing OC Brian Schottenheimer ran a "high-volume offense" that overwhelmed Mark Sanchez. Sparano is expected to run a simplified version with increased two-tight end sets.

http://espn.go.com/new-york/nfl/story/_/id/7452320/new-york-jets-mark-sanchez-lot-fixing-do-image-performance

I guess all the two man route concepts were overwhelming.

Jughead10
01-12-2012, 10:40 AM
http://espn.go.com/new-york/nfl/story/_/id/7452320/new-york-jets-mark-sanchez-lot-fixing-do-image-performance

I guess all the two man route concepts were overwhelming.

Jesus Christ. A lab rat will be able to run that new offense then. They'll never win with him. It was a minor miracle they get to 2 championship games with him.

Basileus777
01-12-2012, 11:00 AM
http://espn.go.com/new-york/nfl/story/_/id/7452320/new-york-jets-mark-sanchez-lot-fixing-do-image-performance

I guess all the two man route concepts were overwhelming.

I don't even...

If I didn't see the link I'd think that was an Onion article.

Jvig43
01-12-2012, 11:05 AM
yeah brees has really struggled without him...

how do we know shotty was responsible for his improvement? where was this magic with sanchez?

And how the **** do we know he's responsible for Sanchez sucking? Jesus this whole run around with the shotty excuse from Jets fans is really just sickening at this point.

http://espn.go.com/new-york/nfl/story/_/id/7452320/new-york-jets-mark-sanchez-lot-fixing-do-image-performance

I guess all the two man route concepts were overwhelming.

My god they were right, it was all shotty's fault.

But in all seriousness great now Sacnhez can be even more mediocre than he previously has been. Hopefully they keep him around for another season.

Complex
01-12-2012, 11:29 AM
That can't be right all the Jets ran is slants. The writer must of not watched Jets games because that is basically what they did.

LonghornsLegend
01-12-2012, 11:41 AM
Yes they should, but no they won't. Typically, almost always in these scenarios, most people know it's time to move on but they do it a year or 2 later then they should and it only makes matters worse.


It's like a mad house inside the Jets locker room. We haven't even got past 2 rounds in the playoffs, and how many reports have we read about dysfunctional things going on there? Majority of them are questioning Sanchez, and I can't remember the last time that's ever happened to a QB that ended up being really good.


All you heard in Detroit a year or 2 years ago was how much respect everyone had for Stafford, how hard he works, on and on. This is with the team still constantly losing and him constantly getting hurt. I just don't think you'd be hearing those whispers if they weren't close to being true.

Punisher
01-12-2012, 11:57 AM
If Sanchez truly is lazy, I'm not surprised. He just seems to have that laid back SoCal attitude.

Yeah, I would love to know what player said it. My guess is Holmes.

I don't know how money has made him, (haven't spoke with him since he was a Sophomore in college) but Mark has always been a hard worker. His parents raised him with the right mentality, I can tell you that. I really hope Mark can prove the disbelievers wrong across the nation. It's hard hearing our hometown hero being bashed along every news publication.

LonghornsLegend
01-12-2012, 12:31 PM
I don't know how money has made him, (haven't spoke with him since he was a Sophomore in college) but Mark has always been a hard worker. His parents raised him with the right mentality, I can tell you that. I really hope Mark can prove the disbelievers wrong across the nation. It's hard hearing our hometown hero being bashed along every news publication.

So are you of the belief that it's all came out of nowhere, for no reason, and that Mark really has been working his butt off all along?

Punisher
01-12-2012, 12:37 PM
So are you of the belief that it's all came out of nowhere, for no reason, and that Mark really has been working his butt off all along?

What I am saying is that if Mark has become lazy, it is not something that carried from his past. He's been working his tail off all the way from his days in Pop Warner.

DraftSavant
01-12-2012, 12:42 PM
I always wonder how much some of these "groomed to be an NFL player since birth" QBs really...want it. While you do have the football cyborg families like the Mannings, you also get tales like the Marinovich family. :shrug: Both are extreme examples...I dunno, when you're 8 years old and decide you wanna be a pro football player and your parents make sure the rest of your life is dedicated to that - it's good to be involved as a parent, but execution matters.

Reading "Early Life" on his Wiki Entry....I should really stop before I go armchair psych because I don't know him or his family personally and shouldn't make superficial assumptions from what I read on Wikipedia.

Jughead10
01-12-2012, 12:44 PM
I always wonder how these "groomed to be an NFL player since birth" QBs really...want it.

Reading "Early Life" on his Wiki Entry....I should really stop before I go armchair psych because I don't know him or his family personally and shouldn't make superficial assumptions from what I read on Wikipedia.

Haha maybe his dad should have went easy on the multiplication tables and worked on things such as throws over 12 yards outside the hashes.

gpngc
01-12-2012, 12:55 PM
There's plenty of blame to go around here but I think there's one key to the whole thing...

Sure, Schotty wasn't great. The OL (specifically Hunter in pass pro) was bad (and Brick had a year like his rookie year for some reason). Sanchez held the ball too long at times with one hand and was erratic, lost his confidence and didn't keep his eyes downfield. The receivers failed to get separation consistently, especially between the 20s (and Sanchez lost his favorite receivers in Braylon - who was good here - and Cotch - who was clutch and a great pro).

But the Jets offense was always at it's best when the RUNNING GAME was the focal point and set up the passing game. Shonn Greene was the problem. When the OL gave him no creases - he got NOTHING (good backs can sometimes salvage something). When the OL gave him a legit hole he got about 4 yards. Barely ever broke tackles and completely lacked explosion. Adding a dynamic, all-around, big-play RB is an absolute must for this offense to succeed at the level they want. Otherwise, it'll be a mess again. Draft Lamar Miller or sign Matt Forte and let Shonn Greene by the complementary back when the defense is tired a la Brandon Jacobs.

Hurricanes25
01-12-2012, 01:00 PM
Shoetenheimer was a main factor in the success at improving Drew Brees in his last 2 years in San Diego.

I don't think Shotty was the problem.

Favre and Pennington went on to be top 5 MVP candidates the year after they left Schotty. They both were pretty bad with him.

DraftSavant
01-12-2012, 01:01 PM
There's plenty of blame to go around here but I think there's one key to the whole thing...

Sure, Schotty wasn't great. The OL (specifically Hunter in pass pro) was bad (and Brick had a year like his rookie year for some reason). Sanchez held the ball too long at times with one hand and was erratic, lost his confidence and didn't keep his eyes downfield. The receivers failed to get separation consistently, especially between the 20s (and Sanchez lost his favorite receivers in Braylon - who was good here - and Cotch - who was clutch and a great pro).

But the Jets offense was always at it's best when the RUNNING GAME was the focal point and set up the passing game. Shonn Greene was the problem. When the OL gave him no creases - he got NOTHING (good backs can sometimes salvage something). When the OL gave him a legit hole he got about 4 yards. Barely ever broke tackles and completely lacked explosion. Adding a dynamic, all-around, big-play RB is an absolute must for this offense to succeed at the level they want. Otherwise, it'll be a mess again. Draft Lamar Miller or sign Matt Forte and let Shonn Greene by the complementary back when the defense is tired a la Brandon Jacobs.

That's why I think runningback is still an important position in the NFL, even when people constantly try to **** on them.

Not everyone can have
a) a foundation quarterback
b) an elite offensive line

If you have a limited QB, a so-so o-line, and a point of attack runner who can't create and only gets the amount of yards the offensive line provides...the results will be disastrous - I don't care how talented the pass catching talent may be or how bad you think the playcalling is.

These types of offenses have to have a talented runner who can create on his own. It's imperative.

Complex
01-12-2012, 01:01 PM
So are you of the belief that it's all came out of nowhere, for no reason, and that Mark really has been working his butt off all along?

"I think the organization does baby him, and I think they definitely need to bring in a viable backup. A viable backup to really provide that competition, because with the competition you're either going to rise or you're just going to crumble."

"He did have a great work ethic. ... He's trying to do all the right things. ... (But players) don't see the results." - Damien Woody

"Mark is the hardest-working quarterback I've ever worked with. I mean, he is there all day long. He doesn't have an outside life, I'm telling you. His whole life is about winning and improving the team. He cares so much and you can see it every day. I really do think he is a great player." -Jets LG Matt Slauson

Mangold and Keller have said he is a hard worker and Damien Woody has no reason to lie since he is no longer with the Jets or NFL. Will see how he turns out with a New Oc.

Jughead10
01-12-2012, 01:01 PM
Favre and Pennington also went on to be top 5 MVP candidates the year after they left Schotty. They both were pretty bad with him.

Favre was pretty good until he got hurt and and played through it to keep his streak alive.

DraftSavant
01-12-2012, 01:01 PM
Favre and Pennington also went on to be top 5 MVP candidates the year after they left Schotty. They both were pretty bad with him.

Two things:

Favre was balling out until his elbow fell off. And he's been prone to having good year/bad year cycles for the last decade.

Complex
01-12-2012, 01:03 PM
Another thing Favre does what Favre wants so we don't even know if he listened to Schotty.

BradysKnee
01-12-2012, 01:07 PM
Favre and Pennington went on to be top 5 MVP candidates the year after they left Schotty. They both were pretty bad with him.

Cmon now that's a moot arguement. Even with the Jets you could see Pennington and Favre had talent. It's not Sanchez's arm (which is good), it's his ability to process and react to information quickly. Bottom Line.

Hurricanes25
01-12-2012, 01:09 PM
Cmon now that's a moot arguement. Even with the Jets you could see Pennington and Favre had talent. It's not Sanchez's arm (which is good), it's his ability to process and react to information quickly. Bottom Line.

I'm not defending Sanchez or anything. I don't think he's the answer for the Jets. I'm just saying that Schotty is terrible.

Hurricanes25
01-12-2012, 01:16 PM
I'm not gonna be the guy who fully blames Schotty for Sanchez's ineptness. Yeah, Sanchez does have trouble reading the defense and is inaccurate at times. I just think the gameplaning and play calling has been miserable since Schotty's been here. I mean why the hell did Sanchez throw the ball 59 times against the Giants?

DraftSavant
01-12-2012, 01:22 PM
I'm not gonna be the guy who fully blames Schotty for Sanchez's ineptness. Yeah, Sanchez does have trouble reading the defense and is inaccurate at times. I just think the gameplaning and play calling has been miserable since Schotty's been here. I mean why the hell did Sanchez throw the ball 59 times against the Giants?

As opposed to letting Greene slam it up inside for 2 YPC?

"He's too conservative!"

"Why are they throwing so much?!"

Hurricanes25
01-12-2012, 01:27 PM
As opposed to letting Greene slam it up inside for 2 YPC?

"He's too conservative!"

"Why are they throwing so much?!"

Actually Greene was averaging 4.1 yards on 14 carries and Tomlinson was averaging 5.8 on 5 carries during the Giants game.

And yes, the Jets have been conservative at times and we wanted to open up the offense but 59 passes to 19 runs? That's awful. The Jets aren't the Saints, the Packers or the Patriots.

Giantsfan1080
01-12-2012, 01:28 PM
The Jets did get away from the run very quickly against us and it was working. I don't know what they were doing.

DraftSavant
01-12-2012, 01:29 PM
Maybe they were seeing what they had in him :shrug:

Complex
01-12-2012, 01:33 PM
Maybe they were seeing what they had in him :shrug:

Against one of the better pass rushing lines? after seeing Jason Babin raping Hunter the previous week. Genius.

DraftSavant
01-12-2012, 01:44 PM
Jags have contacted Schotty for their OC job.

This is what I get for defending him.

Raiderz4Life
01-12-2012, 01:57 PM
Jags have contacted Schotty for their OC job.

This is what I get for defending him.

Mularkey, Schotty, and Gabbert....SUPERBOWLZZZ

MetSox17
01-12-2012, 02:07 PM
hahahahahahaha that coaching combination will do wonders for Gabbert. And by wonders i mean he will go from being terrible to being absolutely god awful.

Brent
01-12-2012, 02:08 PM
Reading "Early Life" on his Wiki Entry....I should really stop before I go armchair psych because I don't know him or his family personally and shouldn't make superficial assumptions from what I read on Wikipedia.
Starting QB at a HS that is successful? Everyone coddles you.

Starting QB at a major university and you are successful? Everyone coddles you.

Starting NFL QB? You **** up, you're going to hear about it.

Saints-Tigers
01-12-2012, 02:10 PM
Starting QB at a HS that is successful? Everyone coddles you.

Starting QB at a major university and you are successful? Everyone coddles you.

Starting NFL QB? You **** up, you're going to hear about it.

They also excused all of his mistakes early because the Jets made the playoffs.

LonghornsLegend
01-12-2012, 02:18 PM
How about Brock Osweiler to the Jets? He could still sit for a year and learn the ropes, but I think he could end up being a good fit there. I'm sure they would wanna put as much around Sanchez as possible this year, but I don't think it'd be a terrible idea to draft your guy this year and not rush him out there.


He's already got a better arm then Sanchez and can really push the ball in that wind and cold weather. Maybe it's because I don't feel adding weapons makes Sanchez any better, or maybe it's if you can get a franchise caliber guy and take your time with him you'll reap more benefits.


That's been a connection that has made alot sense to me since he declared.

Brent
01-12-2012, 02:22 PM
How about Brock Osweiler to the Jets? He could still sit for a year and learn the ropes, but I think he could end up being a good fit there. I'm sure they would wanna put as much around Sanchez as possible this year, but I don't think it'd be a terrible idea to draft your guy this year and not rush him out there.
His stock is probably going to skyrocket, considering who he signed with and the rookie wage scale, which has to reduce the financial risk of taking a QB higher than they should go.

LonghornsLegend
01-12-2012, 02:25 PM
His stock is probably going to skyrocket, considering who he signed with and the rookie wage scale, which has to reduce the financial risk of taking a QB higher than they should go.

I think so too, and big physical QB's are always going to be attractive. He could easily find himself going late in the 1st or early in the 2nd and it wouldn't be a shock at all. I'd be worried taking him and expecting him to lead your team right away, but with good mentoring in a year he might be a find.

Iamcanadian
01-13-2012, 09:30 AM
Again, I'm not defending Sanchez because he might well fail. However, there are some strong points that favour him having a breakout year next season.

He entered the NFL as a junior but he only had somewhere around a dozen games as a starter in college, leaving him as one of the most inexperienced QB's ever to enter the NFL and be asked to start right away.

QB's generally take 3 seasons to reach the point where they are really effective even if they have solid rookie years. It takes that long before an OC can really open up the complete playbook for his young QB and depend on his QB to be able to effortlessly read defenses.

Sanchez was so inexperienced that it should come as no surprise that it will take him 4 years. Heck, Eli didn't really break out till year 4 and for 3 years, people were strongly suggesting he was a flop.

The fact that Sanchez QBed the Jets to 2 playoff runs in his first 2 seasons, suggests to me that a real breakout year is coming now that he has added a lot of experience to his background.

The Jets offense really lacked weapons this year. Ryan wants a run first offense but where is the stud RB to carry out this format. Tomlinson will likely retire having slowed down considerably and Green just isn't a top option for a running system. Add in a WR like Holmes who appears to have lost a step or 2 and really isn't a #1 WR but a solid #2 type. Burress has clearly regressed and is nothing more than a #3 type receiver.

So placing all the blame on Sanchez for the Jets poor offense seems a bit ridiculous to me. It is time for the Jets to take seriously giving some real stud options on offense if they want him to be really productive, starting with a RB in the draft. I won't be one bit shocked if they draft a RB in round 1.

Will he be a star, I don't know, but I believe he can still be a really effective solid NFL starting QB and if he breaks out next season, I don't know what his ceiling is? If the Jets panic(I seriously doubt Ryan does), and replaces Sanchez, I could see them taking a huge step backward.

Basileus777
01-13-2012, 03:01 PM
Sanchez has started 53 games. There's enough tape on him to analyze him based on his performance, not project him based on historical trends or baseless comparisons to Eli Manning. And I'm not sure how a few solid playoff games on a small sample size is more important than what he's done with the rest of his career.

Sanchez is a mentally and physically limited quarterback that hasn't demonstrated that he has the tools to be a good, consistent NFL quarterback. The Jets didn't have a lot of talent around him this year, but he's been in a pretty good position before and did little. The fact that the Jets are talking about scaling their offense down even more to further minimize Sanchez's impact on the game speaks volumes.

Iamcanadian
01-13-2012, 03:27 PM
Sanchez has started 53 games. There's enough tape on him to analyze him based on his performance, not project him based on historical trends or baseless comparisons to Eli Manning. And I'm not sure how a few solid playoff games on a small sample size is more important than what he's done with the rest of his career.

His performance has generally been solid late in the season and during the playoffs and only fell off this season when his supporting cast looked rather mediocre. That is significant for me and while there is zero guarantee that he takes the next step, I've seen enough to think he is at least capable of it.

Sanchez is a mentally and physically limited quarterback that hasn't demonstrated that he has the tools to be a good, consistent NFL quarterback. The Jets didn't have a lot of talent around him this year, but he's been in a pretty good position before and did little. The fact that the Jets are talking about scaling their offense down even more to further minimize Sanchez's impact on the game speaks volumes.

Sanchez may be mentally limited, that is always a possibility, but physically he has the talent to get the job done. Your admitting that his surrounding talent just wasn't up to snuff this season so why is it not possible for him to have been affected by it. I say next season will make or break him and the rush to judgment is just way too quick especially looking at the historical presidents on NFL QB's.

I'm sorry but the Jets don't make the playoff twice without Sanchez playing well at times and that suggests to me that the next step is quite possible.
The Jets just hired a new OC, we'll see what they do with their offense next season. All the talk today usually has zero meaning when next season rolls around.
If they draft, trade for or sign an expensive replacement, then that would speak volumes to me, until then I still see a possible bright future. No guarantees but failure is no less certain IMO.

LonghornsLegend
01-13-2012, 03:39 PM
I'm sorry but the Jets don't make the playoff twice without Sanchez playing well at times and that suggests to me that the next step is quite possible.

You really need to stop. You've been the biggest Sanchez apologist on this site since he's been drafted. All you've done is make up excuses every year. Remember when you said that majority of us said he sucked because we were "haters" or it was our hatred for NY/Sanchez? Good times.


Oh and let's not even bring up the Colts resting starters that the Jets obviously needed to happen to sneak into the playoffs last year. I'm sure that wasn't a big deal at all. He barely was asked to throw the ball that season, he was hardly anything close to the reason they made the playoffs.


He can get them in the playoffs in their defense is playing at an elite level, and the ground game is the best in the league, but when you ask him to carry the team it's a disaster.

I'm beginning to think you'll never run out of excuses for him at this rate.

DraftSavant
01-13-2012, 03:47 PM
SHOULDA DRAFTED TEBOW ljksdklfjasdlkfjasdl;kjf

Basileus777
01-13-2012, 03:51 PM
SHOULDA DRAFTED TEBOW ljksdklfjasdlkfjasdl;kjf

The fact that Tebow QBed the Broncos to a playoff victory in his first postseason, suggests to me that a real breakout year is coming now that he has added a lot of experience to his background.

Iamcanadian
01-13-2012, 03:51 PM
You really need to stop. You've been the biggest Sanchez apologist on this site since he's been drafted. All you've done is make up excuses every year. Remember when you said that majority of us said he sucked because we were "haters" or it was our hatred for NY/Sanchez? Good times.


Oh and let's not even bring up the Colts resting starters that the Jets obviously needed to happen to sneak into the playoffs last year. I'm sure that wasn't a big deal at all. He barely was asked to throw the ball that season, he was hardly anything close to the reason they made the playoffs.


He can get them in the playoffs in their defense is playing at an elite level, and the ground game is the best in the league, but when you ask him to carry the team it's a disaster.

I'm beginning to think you'll never run out of excuses for him at this rate.

Well, all I'm saying is that next season is make or break for him.

I supported Alex Smith for many seasons but just when I finally gave up on him, he kicked me in the ass and succeeded.

Usually, I am quite ready to throw in the towels after 3 seasons if I can see no reason for a player's failure, Eli fooled me and he was a very experienced senior QB when he entered the NFL.

Sanchez has no match except Cassel in my experience in watching QB's over the last 55 years, develop as pros. His inexperience coming out of college was unique and for me that makes any rush to judgment a waste of time.
You chose to write him off, I choose to give him one more season. We'll see who is right next year.

BradysKnee
01-13-2012, 05:12 PM
Well, all I'm saying is that next season is make or break for him.

I supported Alex Smith for many seasons but just when I finally gave up on him, he kicked me in the ass and succeeded.

Usually, I am quite ready to throw in the towels after 3 seasons if I can see no reason for a player's failure, Eli fooled me and he was a very experienced senior QB when he entered the NFL.

Sanchez has no match except Cassel in my experience in watching QB's over the last 55 years, develop as pros. His inexperience coming out of college was unique and for me that makes any rush to judgment a waste of time.
You chose to write him off, I choose to give him one more season. We'll see who is right next year.

Are you saying Sanchez is on par with Cassell in terms of progression at the pro level...?

Saints-Tigers
01-13-2012, 05:30 PM
Alex Smith still sucks though. If you have to wait 6 years for Sanchez to become a game manager, then it's time to move on.

ViperVisor
01-13-2012, 06:25 PM
If managing games well was something sucky QBs could do they would do it.

DraftSavant
01-13-2012, 06:30 PM
If managing games well was something sucky QBs could do they would do it.

I think the point is that if you're waiting for Mark Sanchez to become Matt Cassel or Alex Quinn - two guys who who must be managed, manipulated, and massaged with excellent play calling and supporting casts - then you might as well try to upgrade if you have the chance.

Bengalsrocket
01-13-2012, 06:38 PM
I would stick with Sanchez. He actually looked pretty decent at times this year, and they're way to good of a team to get a top prospect in the draft. Their only chance of upgrading the QB position is to trade for a back up like Flynn or Yates and hope they are more than what Sanchez is now.

Which if you consider history, it's a pretty risky move, especially since there is no going back once you have replaced Sanchez. And you're giving up potential stars on your team with whatever draft picks you end up shelling out for Yates or Flynn.

Iamcanadian
01-14-2012, 07:38 AM
Are you saying Sanchez is on par with Cassell in terms of progression at the pro level...?

All I am saying is they both entered he NFL with extremely limited playing time in college and therefore both required a long learning curve to reach their potential.

Every time a team fails to make the playoffs, their home fans jump all over their team even if it has been decimated by injuries and the QB is often blamed.

KC as an example, had many of its star players go down this year, their QB, RB, and TE on offense and their All Pro Safety on defense and fell from winning their division.

The results were dramatic, their HC was fired(a real mistake in my opinion), and their fans are screaming for a new QB.

What did KC fans think was going to happen with their offense ripped apart at its very core?

Now Sanchez is getting whipped to pieces by Jet's fans after taking NY to 2 playoff runs.

Homers kill me sometimes with their rush to judgment. IMO and I'm not a Jet's fan, NY has a real shot to be special next year if they stick by their guns and bring in some real weapons to help Sanchez take the next step.

If they panic and dump him, I can see the Jets returning to last place until they stink so bad, they are finally able to draft a new QB.

It is just my opinion and I certainly cannot guarantee Sanchez will take the next step, but I see a chance for him to breakout next season with all the experience he has gained and the maturity he has reached. Just have to wait to see which direction he goes in next season.

stl705
01-14-2012, 08:50 AM
Yes and no... Do I think the Jets can win a Superbowl with Sanchez? No, unless rest of the team plays out of its mind. Do I think the Jets should try to get a better QB? Yes, I do; only problem is I don't see any available QBs worth getting for the Jets. Unless they trade Sanchez, their 1st and 3rd round picks, plus a 2nd next year to move up and get RG3, I don't believe they will find a better QB in FA.

I liked Sanchez more than Bradford coming out of college, but I haven't seen enough progression to want to stick with him. Now that some of team doesn't fully believe in Sanchez, the Jets have to try to make a move.

I would love for the Jets (actually I wouldn't, but if I were a Jets fan) to move and possibly even give up Sanchez and two 1sts to get Robert Griffin. I just don't see the Sanchize developing much more, especially if their dreams are to go deep in the playoffs. I know he's made 2
AFC championship games, but I'm not sold.

WCH
01-14-2012, 09:05 AM
If managing games well was something sucky QBs could do they would do it.

He's a top-15 QB in the NFL. And he's a fringe top-15 guy, at that (there are about a dozen guys that everybody would take over Smith). Typically, you don't draft a QB #1 overall and then wait six years for him to emerge as a top-15 starter. And if you have a top-15 starter on a team that doesn't make the playoffs, you're probably looking at possible upgrades.

JetMan01
01-14-2012, 09:26 AM
player A Qb rating 78.2 308-543 (56.7%) 3474 yds 32 td 18 int
player B Qb rating 80.4 300-516 (58.1%) 3398 yds 21 td 13 int

The numbers are similar enough and its a complex argument, so hear me out. I feel alot of times fans critique a player based on a set of fluctuating criteria that continously adjusts to allow for contradictions to exist. For ex, sometimes winning is weighed very heavily as a significant determing factor of what composes a good qb (in which case bad stats are excused see vince young), sometimes stats serve that evaluative function (cam newton), and sometimes its just the eye test (everybody). What I mean to say is that there are differing metrics of a qb and fans unknowingly compromise their judgment by utilizing one set of logic against another. Sanchez falls victim to this, because winning is obviously a team thing, but somtimes its regarded as a individual thing. For instance, Tom Brady is a "winner" but Sanchez is on a team that "wins". The differentiation is made with situational logic riddled with bias.

Player A is Sanchez, Player B is rookie qb Andy Dalton. There numbers are very similar with the exception that Sanchez has more tds. Alot of fans have alot of respect for Dalton because he appears to have a promising future, but hold on a second. Sanchez is only ONE year older, he's been to two AFC Champ games, and he put up 30+ tds this past season. Dalton won't receive scrutiny because he's a rookie, but also because the expectations were low.

Is it not then fair to say that Sanchez is a victim of lofty team expectations and that his individual performance is worthy of admiration given out to other players, but that he doesn't receive it because his team didn't perform as well as it had been expected to? His team did well when he didn't score 30 tds, and he rightly had critics for poor individual play. But when his team did poorly, and he did put up some big td games, the same critics employ a different set of logic to critique him.

*I forsee a potential counterargument being that his play still wasn't good ennough this year. To that I counter with Dalton. Sanchez put up numbers that compare favorably to vick, fitzpatrick, freeman, and flacco too. If all of those guys aren't good enough, then basically you're not happy unless you have a top 10 qb, which is silly. and SEcondly, its undeniable that his play has improved. That his team did not go as far therefore should have less to do with him then is billed, because if his play alone was so important then the team record should improve as he does. Its a team game. Pick a criteria and stick to it. Either way, I feel like he's got a defense for each: hes won, and he's statistically getting better. It's only when you illogically mix the two that an argument can be made he needs to be replaced right now.

BradysKnee
01-14-2012, 10:32 AM
player A Qb rating 78.2 308-543 (56.7%) 3474 yds 32 td 18 int
player B Qb rating 80.4 300-516 (58.1%) 3398 yds 21 td 13 int

The numbers are similar enough and its a complex argument, so hear me out. I feel alot of times fans critique a player based on a set of fluctuating criteria that continously adjusts to allow for contradictions to exist. For ex, sometimes winning is weighed very heavily as a significant determing factor of what composes a good qb (in which case bad stats are excused see vince young), sometimes stats serve that evaluative function (cam newton), and sometimes its just the eye test (everybody). What I mean to say is that there are differing metrics of a qb and fans unknowingly compromise their judgment by utilizing one set of logic against another. Sanchez falls victim to this, because winning is obviously a team thing, but somtimes its regarded as a individual thing. For instance, Tom Brady is a "winner" but Sanchez is on a team that "wins". The differentiation is made with situational logic riddled with bias.

Player A is Sanchez, Player B is rookie qb Andy Dalton. There numbers are very similar with the exception that Sanchez has more tds. Alot of fans have alot of respect for Dalton because he appears to have a promising future, but hold on a second. Sanchez is only ONE year older, he's been to two AFC Champ games, and he put up 30+ tds this past season. Dalton won't receive scrutiny because he's a rookie, but also because the expectations were low.

Is it not then fair to say that Sanchez is a victim of lofty team expectations and that his individual performance is worthy of admiration given out to other players, but that he doesn't receive it because his team didn't perform as well as it had been expected to? His team did well when he didn't score 30 tds, and he rightly had critics for poor individual play. But when his team did poorly, and he did put up some big td games, the same critics employ a different set of logic to critique him.

*I forsee a potential counterargument being that his play still wasn't good ennough this year. To that I counter with Dalton. Sanchez put up numbers that compare favorably to vick, fitzpatrick, freeman, and flacco too. If all of those guys aren't good enough, then basically you're not happy unless you have a top 10 qb, which is silly. and SEcondly, its undeniable that his play has improved. That his team did not go as far therefore should have less to do with him then is billed, because if his play alone was so important then the team record should improve as he does. Its a team game. Pick a criteria and stick to it. Either way, I feel like he's got a defense for each: hes won, and he's statistically getting better. It's only when you illogically mix the two that an argument can be made he needs to be replaced right now.

Being a year older is insignificant compared to having two more years of NFL exp.

Most coaches/scouts etc agree. That in year 3 you know what you have, and the player is generally very close to their ceiling. Very few exceptions to this occur.

gsorace
01-14-2012, 12:05 PM
Mark Sanchez is a more mobile version of Rex Grossman but with a worse arm.

JetMan01
01-14-2012, 12:18 PM
Being a year older is insignificant compared to having two more years of NFL exp.

Most coaches/scouts etc agree. That in year 3 you know what you have, and the player is generally very close to their ceiling. Very few exceptions to this occur.

I don't disagree, but i can't agree that it's as clear cut as you make it sound. The qb position is different. Sometimes he first few seasons can be misleading. Brees, Brady, Eli, it would have been tough to think they would throw for 5k yards if looking at only their first few years. I'm sure there are better examples out there

Brown Leader
01-14-2012, 12:36 PM
player A Qb rating 78.2 308-543 (56.7%) 3474 yds 32 td 18 int
player B Qb rating 80.4 300-516 (58.1%) 3398 yds 21 td 13 int

The numbers are similar enough and its a complex argument, so hear me out. I feel alot of times fans critique a player based on a set of fluctuating criteria that continously adjusts to allow for contradictions to exist. For ex, sometimes winning is weighed very heavily as a significant determing factor of what composes a good qb (in which case bad stats are excused see vince young), sometimes stats serve that evaluative function (cam newton), and sometimes its just the eye test (everybody). What I mean to say is that there are differing metrics of a qb and fans unknowingly compromise their judgment by utilizing one set of logic against another. Sanchez falls victim to this, because winning is obviously a team thing, but somtimes its regarded as a individual thing. For instance, Tom Brady is a "winner" but Sanchez is on a team that "wins". The differentiation is made with situational logic riddled with bias.

Player A is Sanchez, Player B is rookie qb Andy Dalton. There numbers are very similar with the exception that Sanchez has more tds. Alot of fans have alot of respect for Dalton because he appears to have a promising future, but hold on a second. Sanchez is only ONE year older, he's been to two AFC Champ games, and he put up 30+ tds this past season. Dalton won't receive scrutiny because he's a rookie, but also because the expectations were low.

Is it not then fair to say that Sanchez is a victim of lofty team expectations and that his individual performance is worthy of admiration given out to other players, but that he doesn't receive it because his team didn't perform as well as it had been expected to? His team did well when he didn't score 30 tds, and he rightly had critics for poor individual play. But when his team did poorly, and he did put up some big td games, the same critics employ a different set of logic to critique him.

*I forsee a potential counterargument being that his play still wasn't good ennough this year. To that I counter with Dalton. Sanchez put up numbers that compare favorably to vick, fitzpatrick, freeman, and flacco too. If all of those guys aren't good enough, then basically you're not happy unless you have a top 10 qb, which is silly. and SEcondly, its undeniable that his play has improved. That his team did not go as far therefore should have less to do with him then is billed, because if his play alone was so important then the team record should improve as he does. Its a team game. Pick a criteria and stick to it. Either way, I feel like he's got a defense for each: hes won, and he's statistically getting better. It's only when you illogically mix the two that an argument can be made he needs to be replaced right now.

Great post.

scottyboy
01-14-2012, 12:49 PM
i don't think it's fair to compare Dalton's numbers to whichever year you chose for Sanchez. It's all about progression and regression and Sanchez this year looked worse than he did last year. He regressed. 26 td's and 18 picks with an ok completion % of 56.7

He needs weapons too. we'll see. i'm not a believer, but i'm not throwing him to the trash right now...but he's closer to the trash heap then he is any glory

SuperPacker
01-14-2012, 01:01 PM
i don't think it's fair to compare Dalton's numbers to whichever year you chose for Sanchez. It's all about progression and regression and Sanchez this year looked worse than he did last year. He regressed. 26 td's and 18 picks with an ok completion % of 56.7

He needs weapons too. we'll see. i'm not a believer, but i'm not throwing him to the trash right now...but he's closer to the trash heap then he is any glory

This. People are saying Dalton has done well because hes a rookie so he will now be expected to improve his numbers next year. If in 3 years Dalton is putting up the same numbers, it wont be good because it means he hasn't progressed.

Brent
01-14-2012, 01:26 PM
I think the point is that if you're waiting for Mark Sanchez to become Matt Cassel or Alex Quinn - two guys who who must be managed, manipulated, and massaged with excellent play calling and supporting casts - then you might as well try to upgrade if you have the chance.
Who the **** is Alex Quinn?

Giantsfan1080
01-14-2012, 01:30 PM
A clone made up of the suckiness that was Alex Smith and Brady Quinn of course.

Brent
01-14-2012, 01:34 PM
A clone made up of the suckiness that was Alex Smith and Brady Quinn of course.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v296/idiotnumbr3/Smith-smiling.jpg

Giantsfan1080
01-14-2012, 01:35 PM
I'm rooting for you guys so hell no. Also, I just remembered I have an autograph of Alex Smith somewhere. I should send it to you.

Brent
01-14-2012, 01:36 PM
I'm rooting for you guys so hell no. Also, I just remembered I have an autograph of Alex Smith somewhere. I should send it to you.
I would gladly hang that in my classroom.

Basileus777
01-14-2012, 01:39 PM
i don't think it's fair to compare Dalton's numbers to whichever year you chose for Sanchez.

It's Sanchez's numbers this year, he just added his rushing numbers/tds to his totals. It's a bit misleading to lump the numbers together like that without context. Anyone looking at that would think Sanchez threw 32 passing TDs.


And I don't think the comparison to Dalton is somehow flattering to Sanchez. Dalton is a rookie who already has people questioning his upside. If Dalton puts those numbers in his 3rd season people will be calling him a disappointment.

Brodeur
01-14-2012, 01:47 PM
Mark Sanchez is a more mobile version of Rex Grossman but with a worse arm.

Rex Grossman's entire skillset is throwing deep, something Sanchez barely does. That is a terrible comparison.

Basileus777
01-14-2012, 01:53 PM
Rex Grossman's entire skillset is throwing deep, something Sanchez barely does. That is a terrible comparison.

Grossman (or at least the current Redskins version of him) is actually at his best throwing between the hash marks, just like Sanchez. I recall hearing Greg Cosell compare Sanchez to Grossman, it's a comparison that has been made before.

nepg
01-14-2012, 02:16 PM
i don't think it's fair to compare Dalton's numbers to whichever year you chose for Sanchez. It's all about progression and regression and Sanchez this year looked worse than he did last year. He regressed. 26 td's and 18 picks with an ok completion % of 56.7

He needs weapons too. we'll see. i'm not a believer, but i'm not throwing him to the trash right now...but he's closer to the trash heap then he is any glory
Well the guy lost Edwards and Crotch and they were replaced with Plax. So the talent/productivity at WR regressed terribly. Crotch and Edwards (along with Keller) opened things up for Holmes, and Santonio just couldn't make up their production on his own because he isn't that good unless he has two other + receivers around him. See: Pittsburgh with Hines Ward and Mike Wallace.

Saints-Tigers
01-14-2012, 02:20 PM
As for the comparison to Freeman, Vick, Fitz, and Flacco...

Vick and Flacco had bad statistical years by their standard, and if it looked like that every year, people wouldn't like them much either.

Fitzpatrick crashed hard to end the season, if he plays next season like he played the second half of this year, no one will want him.

Freeman is highly touted because he had an amazing second season with a not so amazing cast. If Sanchez had any year as good as Freeman's last year, people would have a little more believe in him.

Complex
01-14-2012, 03:26 PM
Grossman (or at least the current Redskins version of him) is actually at his best throwing between the hash marks, just like Sanchez. I recall hearing Greg Cosell compare Sanchez to Grossman, it's a comparison that has been made before.

The redskins run a bunch of quick slants?

DraftSavant
01-14-2012, 03:39 PM
Rex Grossman's entire skillset is throwing deep, something Sanchez barely does. That is a terrible comparison.

He (Grossman) prefers to throw deep, but his skillset really isn't suited for it, and that's a big part of his problem. He's fine if he has a clean pocket and can plant and drive off his back foot, but if forced to reset his feet you can really see his lack of armstrength show up.

In terms of physical skillset, arm talent, and ability to see the field, there's not that much difference.

San Diego Chicken
01-14-2012, 05:16 PM
It all depends on who they can get but I think the Jets already knew they weren't going to be a great team with Sanchez being a volume passer at this point in his progression. Fixing the running game should be their #1 priority, 22nd in the league isn't going to cut it. Lamar Miller could be a really good fit for them.

stl705
01-14-2012, 05:44 PM
This. People are saying Dalton has done well because hes a rookie so he will now be expected to improve his numbers next year. If in 3 years Dalton is putting up the same numbers, it wont be good because it means he hasn't progressed.

Agree completely. How can someone honestly compare a ROOKIE to a 3rd year QB???

And the Rookie has just as good stats as the 3rd year guy! This definitely says something about Sanchez that he's not a franchise QB, but more of a statement that he's a journeyman QB. I don't buy the age difference (not with a rookie), because there is a HUGE difference between getting two years of experience in the AFC east playing the Patriots vs. playing Air Force or New Mexico (or whoever else TCU plays in conference).

To the statement about how Sanchez compares to Freeman, Flacco, Fitzy, and Vick... it's tough to really compare stats... Some teams throw a lot more. Some rely on their QB a lot. The Ravens have a great running game and Flacco either looks decent or terrible. I will agree that the jury is still out on him, as well as Freeman; but let's give Freeman one more year to see if he improves. The Bucs were pretty bad this year considering Freemans hype from last year, so I want to see if he improves next year.

Difference between Fitzy and Sanchez? Fitzy started to show improvement over the past couple years before the Bills collapsed. I would say when he's on, he's an average QB (still to be determined if he can be a legit QB or journeyman). I don't think Sanchez is even average or on Fitzy's level right now. I feel more comfortable with the ball in Fitzy's hands; while a lot less when Sanchez has the ball. It's not about that teams need a top 10 QB, but I think you at least need an average QB unless the rest of your team is completely stacked (which has happened more than a few times in the past decade). Sanchez has not improved in my opinion enough to even warrant an average QB spot. I believe he's in the bottom 1/3 of the league.

Sanchez hasn't shown the leadership ability, or the ability to consistently put his team in a position to win. I think a stacked Jets team failing to make the playoffs showed his weaknesses this year. He can't throw with pressure in his face from what i've seen of him. Anyone can throw the ball when times are going good and your line is giving you time; but only stable, at least average QBs are able to right the ship when things are going wrong. Sanchez hasn't shown this ability so far 3 years into his career, which makes me believe he's a journeyman at best. Obviously time is still very much on his side and he can prove me wrong and turn it around like many QBs do in their career... but I just don't see it happening with the way things currently have played out.

JetMan01
01-14-2012, 08:30 PM
Agree completely. How can someone honestly compare a ROOKIE to a 3rd year QB???

And the Rookie has just as good stats as the 3rd year guy! This definitely says something about Sanchez that he's not a franchise QB, but more of a statement that he's a journeyman QB. I don't buy the age difference (not with a rookie), because there is a HUGE difference between getting two years of experience in the AFC east playing the Patriots vs. playing Air Force or New Mexico (or whoever else TCU plays in conference).

To the statement about how Sanchez compares to Freeman, Flacco, Fitzy, and Vick... it's tough to really compare stats... Some teams throw a lot more. Some rely on their QB a lot. The Ravens have a great running game and Flacco either looks decent or terrible. I will agree that the jury is still out on him, as well as Freeman; but let's give Freeman one more year to see if he improves. The Bucs were pretty bad this year considering Freemans hype from last year, so I want to see if he improves next year.

Difference between Fitzy and Sanchez? Fitzy started to show improvement over the past couple years before the Bills collapsed. I would say when he's on, he's an average QB (still to be determined if he can be a legit QB or journeyman). I don't think Sanchez is even average or on Fitzy's level right now. I feel more comfortable with the ball in Fitzy's hands; while a lot less when Sanchez has the ball. It's not about that teams need a top 10 QB, but I think you at least need an average QB unless the rest of your team is completely stacked (which has happened more than a few times in the past decade). Sanchez has not improved in my opinion enough to even warrant an average QB spot. I believe he's in the bottom 1/3 of the league.

Sanchez hasn't shown the leadership ability, or the ability to consistently put his team in a position to win. I think a stacked Jets team failing to make the playoffs showed his weaknesses this year. He can't throw with pressure in his face from what i've seen of him. Anyone can throw the ball when times are going good and your line is giving you time; but only stable, at least average QBs are able to right the ship when things are going wrong. Sanchez hasn't shown this ability so far 3 years into his career, which makes me believe he's a journeyman at best. Obviously time is still very much on his side and he can prove me wrong and turn it around like many QBs do in their career... but I just don't see it happening with the way things currently have played out.

I don't mean to call you out here, there are certainly elements of truth here and very valid critiques, but I do feel that this is an example of what I'm talking about. You employ two different metrics to grade out sanchez. He put his team in position to win 2/3 years quite well. he was that average qb you speak of. this year the team didnt win, but statistically he was much better. he was top 5 in touchdowns, not bad, certainly not average. That his team wasn't top 5, or that he didn't somehow put them in position to win, is indicative not of his continuing failures, but that his team dynamic has changed. Thats beside the point though, because the meat of it is that either way, he takes the brunt of criticism. There are fair ways to criticize him, certainly there are, but I don't believe that this way, to combine two different sets of logic, is one of them. He's certainly at the least average, not bottom 3rd.

A side argument, if Alex Smith can lead his team past the Saints, I dont think there is any reason to think why Sanchez cant.

Basileus777
01-14-2012, 08:42 PM
Yeah, Sanchez could probably win a home playoff game with 5 turnovers too. That puts him in some special company.