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View Full Version : The Value of Matt Flynn


jackalope
01-01-2012, 04:40 PM
Before today's game, I liked Matt Flynn, but felt his ceiling was probably to become an average starter in the NFL. There had been a bit of hype around him following a comment from an unnamed scout that he was a potential franchise QB and he played well against New England. But while he had a good grasp of the game mentally, I still thought he didn't really have the arm to be anything more than okay. Today, however, Flynn threw for 480 yards and 6 touchdowns in tough wind conditions (for evidence of that, take a look at Hanson and Crosby's missed fieldgoals). He made some impressive deep throws and looked all around like a very good NFL quarterback.

At 26 years old and set to be an unrestricted free agent, I now think Flynn may be capable of being a top ten quarterback as early as next season. Luck will be a Colt, but compared to the other potential first round quarterbacks, Flynn looks like a much safer bet. So what is the market for Flynn? Are there multiple teams that would be willing to forgo drafting RG3 or Landry Jones and make a long term commitment to Flynn?

John Schneider, the GM in Seattle, was with Green Bay when Flynn was drafted. I'm not all that familiar with Seattle, but I would think the team would be a lot more optimistic with Flynn going forward than Tavaris Jackson or Charlie Whitehurst.

It seem his stock just skyrocketed at the perfect time. I'm curious as to what teams will be going after Flynn and what kind of a contract he can expect.

JBCX
01-01-2012, 04:52 PM
Unless the Packers franchise tag Flynn, they will get nothing in return as he will be a free agent.

If they franchise tag him, they will assume alot of financial risk which a small-market team such as the Packers will not be willing to assume.

I think they let him walk and he signs with another team in free agency.

jackalope
01-01-2012, 04:54 PM
Unless the Packers franchise tag Flynn, they will get nothing in return as he will be a free agent.

If they franchise tag him, they will assume alot of financial risk which a small-market team such as the Packers will not be willing to assume.

I think they let him walk and he signs with another team in free agency.

I'm absolutely assuming that. People have begun throwing around the idea of franchising him after this game, but that doesn't strike me as a move Thompson would make. I also think that they would like to reserve the franchise tag for Finley anyway.

Basileus777
01-01-2012, 04:55 PM
Unless the Packers franchise tag Flynn, they will get nothing in return as he will be a free agent.

If they franchise tag him, they will assume alot of financial risk which a small-market team such as the Packers will not be willing to assume.

What risk? Why can't they franchise and trade him like the Pats did with Cassel?

Shane P. Hallam
01-01-2012, 04:57 PM
What risk? Why can't they franchise and trade him like the Pats did with Cassel?

Risk of not being able to franchise Finley.

PackerLegend
01-01-2012, 04:58 PM
Unless the Packers franchise tag Flynn, they will get nothing in return as he will be a free agent.

If they franchise tag him, they will assume alot of financial risk which a small-market team such as the Packers will not be willing to assume.

I think they let him walk and he signs with another team in free agency.

Even if he doesn't get tagged and traded they will still get a comp. pick in the draft. So they will get something

jackalope
01-01-2012, 05:02 PM
What risk? Why can't they franchise and trade him like the Pats did with Cassel?

If they were unable to trade him, they're stuck paying Flynn top 5 QB money (which I'm pretty sure would actually be a bigger salary than Rodgers has). The bigger issue, though, is probably Finley.

Right now, if Flynn walks the best Green Bay can get is a 3rd round compensatory pick in 2013. The front office surely could have gotten more if they'd dealt him early this season, but didn't want to risk losing a potential Superbowl season if Rodgers were to go down.

BloodBrother
01-01-2012, 05:09 PM
I don't know if they would have gotten more than a 3rd if they traded Flynn prior to the start of the year tbh

it's a tough situation. You don't just want talented QB's to go for nothing but he clearly has no future in GB and they have another weapon in Finley who is a FA(coming off a pretty pedestrian season, however)

Phins827
01-01-2012, 05:11 PM
As a Dolphins fan, unless we can pull off a trade to grab Griffin, I'm all for Flynn

BloodBrother
01-01-2012, 05:21 PM
move over Tebow. Flynn just...winzzz?

National championship and a SB. Guy has the hardware

jackalope
01-01-2012, 05:27 PM
It may also be worth noting that Reggie McKenzie, Green Bay's director of football operations, is rumored to be the front runner for Oakland's general manager job. Now, it's hard to imagine replacing Carson Palmer so quickly after what they gave up for him, but with a new GM it's possible that they would cut their losses and go for a younger guy with more potential. No sense crying over spilt milk and missing an opportunity to improve. A Raiders fan would have to let me know how realistic that is considering his contract situation.

descendency
01-01-2012, 05:29 PM
Unless the Packers franchise tag Flynn, they will get nothing in return as he will be a free agent.

If they franchise tag him, they will assume alot of financial risk which a small-market team such as the Packers will not be willing to assume.

I think they let him walk and he signs with another team in free agency.

Boston may be a bigger market, but the Packers could easily do what NE did with Matt Cassel.

The downside was NE was handicappped in early free agency.

Basileus777
01-01-2012, 05:30 PM
It may also be worth noting that Reggie McKenzie, Green Bay's director of football operations, is rumored to be the front runner for Oakland's general manager job. Now, it's hard to imagine replacing Carson Palmer so quickly after what they gave up for him, but with a new GM it's possible that they would cut their losses and go for a younger guy with more potential. No sense crying over spilt milk and missing an opportunity to improve. A Raiders fan would have to let me know how realistic that is considering his contract situation.

Replacing Palmer this early is pretty much impossible. New GM or not, they aren't going to trade for/give Flynn a big deal after half a year.

Razor
01-01-2012, 05:37 PM
I'd think Flynn has similar value as Schaub did before he got traded, maybe a bit less.

Saints-Tigers
01-01-2012, 05:54 PM
Boston may be a bigger market, but the Packers could easily do what NE did with Matt Cassel.

The downside was NE was handicappped in early free agency.


Well, the Packers don't make a splash in FA anyway.

Great opportunity for them. I bet they are thrilled that they sat Aaron now, WOW.

VernonLawson89
01-01-2012, 05:58 PM
Would love to see him on the Niners

ChiFan24
01-01-2012, 06:01 PM
If they were unable to trade him, they're stuck paying Flynn top 5 QB money (which I'm pretty sure would actually be a bigger salary than Rodgers has). The bigger issue, though, is probably Finley.

Right now, if Flynn walks the best Green Bay can get is a 3rd round compensatory pick in 2013. The front office surely could have gotten more if they'd dealt him early this season, but didn't want to risk losing a potential Superbowl season if Rodgers were to go down.

They would definitely be able to trade him though, and if they can't, they can always remove the tag.

I'd tag him and try to negotiate a contract with Finley. The first rounder they can get for Flynn is more valuable than an expensive non-elite tight end.

J-Mike88
01-01-2012, 06:05 PM
I expect the Packers to get 2 teams into a somewhat "bidding war" for Matt's services, and the Packers will give Flynn a new contract, then trade him.

Which of these could be realistic?:

Flynn & the Packers 1st rounder for Miami's 1st rounder?
Flynn for Elvis Dumervil (Elway does NOT want Tebow throwing that ship...)
Flynn, AJ Hawk, Ryan Grant to Washington for Brian Orakpo


Anyone remember what Atlanta got for for Schaub, Philly for Kolb, and NE for Cassell?
We all know what Cinci got for Palmer, but he was a Pro Bowler 5 years ago.....

FUNBUNCHER
01-01-2012, 06:05 PM
Pot o' gold over here for ya Matty!!!



Skins need to keep all their draft picks to rebuild the roster.

J-Mike88
01-01-2012, 06:08 PM
Boston may be a bigger market, but the Packers could easily do what NE did with Matt Cassel.

The downside was NE was handicappped in early free agency.
We're never players in free agency anyway.
Well since 2006 with Woodson & Pickett.

FUNBUNCHER
01-01-2012, 06:28 PM
GB will franchise Jordy before Flynn.

J-Mike88
01-01-2012, 06:30 PM
GB will franchise Jordy before Flynn.
Nelson signed a new deal before this season.

Great deal for us....

jackalope
01-01-2012, 06:35 PM
Yeah, Green Bay has Nelson for three more years for $13.35 million.

DBNYDP
01-01-2012, 06:54 PM
His value is really high right now and he is going to get PAID this offseason. That being said I have serious doubts, he had a great game today but played against a bad secondary and with a great set of receivers. I thought the line played pretty well today. I'm not saying he's a bad player, but I don't think he's going to be nearly as good as he is going to be paid. Then again for me I'm almost always against signing or trading for a QB, I almost always prefer the draft for the QB position.

EvilMonkey
01-01-2012, 06:57 PM
His value is really high right now and he is going to get PAID this offseason. That being said I have serious doubts, he had a great game today but played against a bad secondary and with a great set of receivers. I thought the line played pretty well today. I'm not saying he's a bad player, but I don't think he's going to be nearly as good as he is going to be paid. Then again for me I'm almost always against signing or trading for a QB, I almost always prefer the draft for the QB position.

I hope we franchise him and get a high pick in return, but I do agree with you that nothing is proven with him. He's had 2 great games as a starter, but they were both against terrible secondaries. Get what we can while we can.

SuperPacker
01-01-2012, 07:13 PM
1. Franchise Matt Flynn
2. Trade Matt Flynn
3. Get Finleys ass out of Green Bay!

Ness
01-01-2012, 07:17 PM
Would love to see him on the Niners

Same. He'd look good in a 49ers uniform. Alex Smith can GTFO.

Ness
01-01-2012, 07:19 PM
Already have a nickname for him:

The Grid.

Caulibflower
01-01-2012, 07:21 PM
Robert Griffin is no sure thing to me, so I wouldn't be unhappy if the Seahawks brought Flynn in. We're not getting Luck, so the only other QB I'd want in this draft is Tannehill, and if you're asking me to choose between a project QB with great tools and upside, or a young vet whose shown some flash... I don't know. I think I'd rather draft Tannehill, but landing either guy would be an encouraging move. I'd say I think the Seahawks have a good offseason if they can end up with one of them.

Edit: not saying I'd be unhappy, particularly, with drafting Griffin... I just wouldn't make a move for him. It'd be exciting to bring in a flashy, high-profile player, but... I'm not sold. Probably going to be a theme for me through draft season.

jackalope
01-01-2012, 07:21 PM
1. Franchise Matt Flynn
2. Trade Matt Flynn
3. Get Finleys ass out of Green Bay!

I really disagree with this, and I'm pretty sure the front office does too.

JBCX
01-01-2012, 07:23 PM
Robert Griffin is no sure thing to me, so I wouldn't be unhappy if the Seahawks brought Flynn in. We're not getting Luck, so the only other QB I'd want in this draft is Tannehill, and if you're asking me to choose between a project QB with great tools and upside, or a young vet whose shown some flash... I don't know. I think I'd rather draft Tannehill, but landing either guy would be an encouraging move. I'd say I think the Seahawks have a good offseason if they can end up with one of them.

The Seahawks don't have a shot at any of the elite QBs in the draft (unless you consider Tannehill or Jones elite)... so Flynn is their only option.

There's no way for the Seahawks to target RGIII or Luck without giving up an insane package of draft picks to move up.

PackerLegend
01-01-2012, 07:27 PM
1. Franchise Matt Flynn
2. Trade Matt Flynn
3. Get Finleys ass out of Green Bay!

I highly disagree with #3 as well. Your crazy for wanting him out. Sure he has had a rough year but it happens to alot of great players.

SuperPacker
01-01-2012, 07:37 PM
I highly disagree with #3 as well. Your crazy for wanting him out. Sure he has had a rough year but it happens to alot of great players.

Please stop it you're making me sick! ROUGH YEAR?! GREAT PLAYER?! Can you please tell me when he has had a good year before you start saying he is a great player.

Remember this was the 'Year Of The Take Over'. He has never put up elite numbers, he has never had consistency and he is always moaning.

Yeah he has potential, but potential translates into nothing when you're a complete moron. I could guarantee if he re-singed and in 4 years he was saying the same things and dropping the same amount of balls you would all still be saying 'but he has so much potential'

Razor
01-01-2012, 07:37 PM
I highly disagree with #3 as well. Your crazy for wanting him out. Sure he has had a rough year but it happens to alot of great players.

Errr.... Since when is Finley a "great player"? He's a good player with great athleticism who has never put together a truely dominant season. Let's not pretend he's a special player yet, although he has been hyped as that for the last two years.

nepg
01-01-2012, 07:42 PM
While they do want to keep Finley, if he doesn't re-sign with the Packers, he's not a terrible loss with Quarless, Crabtree, and DJ Williams on the roster with a TE draft class that will likely see some good prospects last into the mid-to-later rounds.

F-tag Flynn and sell to the highest bidder. Likely Redskins, Dolphins, or Seahawks. Browns might also be in the mix.

Caulibflower
01-01-2012, 07:50 PM
The Seahawks don't have a shot at any of the elite QBs in the draft (unless you consider Tannehill or Jones elite)... so Flynn is their only option.

There's no way for the Seahawks to target RGIII or Luck without giving up an insane package of draft picks to move up.

You mean... Luck? And like I said, I'd be happy with Tannehill. Flynn's an option. We lost to AZ today, so I believe we'll be picking around the 10 spot. Griffin could be still be there, too.

PackerLegend
01-01-2012, 08:19 PM
Please stop it you're making me sick! ROUGH YEAR?! GREAT PLAYER?! Can you please tell me when he has had a good year before you start saying he is a great player.

Remember this was the 'Year Of The Take Over'. He has never put up elite numbers, he has never had consistency and he is always moaning.

Yeah he has potential, but potential translates into nothing when you're a complete moron. I could guarantee if he re-singed and in 4 years he was saying the same things and dropping the same amount of balls you would all still be saying 'but he has so much potential'

So hes not great I agree.... but hes a good player whose a huge mismatch with tons of potential. Yeah he says alot of dumb stuff but hes still young only 24 so I assume he will mature. How do you expect him to get elite numbers on a team filled with weapons? The bottom line is hes an alot better TE then we have had in awhile. So hes had drops but I dont remember it ever being an issue before. The YOTTO (Year Of The Takeover) was about the Packers not Finely. Thus this being YOTTO2 because he missed mostof last season.

WCH
01-01-2012, 08:21 PM
I highly disagree with #3 as well. Your crazy for wanting him out. Sure he has had a rough year but it happens to alot of great players.

The fact that we consider this a "rough year" says a lot about his talent. This year, he actually had the most productive season by a Packer TE since Paul Coffman in 1983.

[/perspective]

Leon Sandcastle
01-01-2012, 08:40 PM
Jermichael Finley can have another one of his rough years with my team.

Caulibflower
01-01-2012, 08:47 PM
People have been making it sound like Green Bay would get a compensatory pick if Flynn leaves in free agency... Is this true? Why would they get compensation for a player whose contract has expired?

Brent
01-01-2012, 08:51 PM
Why would they get compensation for a player whose contract has expired?
compensation picks are distributed based on FAs who leave and how they perform the following season.

CashmoneyDrew
01-01-2012, 08:52 PM
People have been making it sound like Green Bay would get a compensatory pick if Flynn leaves in free agency... Is this true? Why would they get compensation for a player whose contract has expired?

Because those are the players teams get compensated for. They don't get compensatory picks for players that they terminate the contracts of. But of course it also would depend on if the Packers lost more free agents than they signed.

Caulibflower
01-01-2012, 08:53 PM
compensation picks are distributed based on FAs who leave and how they perform the following season.

So since Flynn would be expected to start next year, if he goes out and performs well... some committee would say, "Green Bay should get a pick in X round?"

jackalope
01-01-2012, 08:54 PM
compensation picks are distributed based on FAs who leave and how they perform the following season.

If I'm not mistaken, the size of the contract also factors in. Right?

Caulibflower
01-01-2012, 08:54 PM
Because those are the players teams get compensated for. They don't get compensatory picks for players that they terminate the contracts of. But of course it also would depend on if the Packers lost more free agents than they signed.

I guess it just doesn't really make sense to me that a team should get compensated when a player has fulfilled his obligation to the team. Isn't he an unrestricted free agent? Just don't understand what, exactly, warrants compensation in the first place.

JBCX
01-01-2012, 08:55 PM
You mean... Luck? And like I said, I'd be happy with Tannehill. Flynn's an option. We lost to AZ today, so I believe we'll be picking around the 10 spot. Griffin could be still be there, too.

Griffin will not fall out of the top 5.

WCH
01-01-2012, 08:58 PM
So since Flynn would be expected to start next year, if he goes out and performs well... some committee would say, "Green Bay should get a pick in X round?"

Just so we're clear, the pick would be in 2013 and I'm pretty sure that his salary would play a major component.

It's basically so that teams who draft well don't get completely hosed over if they can't afford to re-sign their FAs, I think.

Brent
01-01-2012, 09:00 PM
In addition to the 32 picks in each round, there are a total of 32 picks awarded at the ends of Rounds 3 through 7. These picks, known as "compensatory picks," are awarded to teams that have lost more qualifying free agents than they gained the previous year in free agency. Teams that gain and lose the same number of players but lose higher-valued players than they gain also can be awarded a pick, but only in the seventh round, after the other compensatory picks. Compensatory picks cannot be traded, and the placement of the picks is determined by a proprietary formula based on the player's salary, playing time, and postseason honors with his new team, with salary being the primary factor. So, for example, a team that lost a linebacker who signed for $2.5 million per year in free agency might get a sixth-round compensatory pick, while a team that lost a wide receiver who signed for $5 million per year might receive a fourth-round pick.

If fewer than 32 such picks are awarded, the remaining picks are awarded in the order in which teams would pick in a hypothetical eighth round of the draft (These are known as "supplemental compensatory selections").

Compensatory picks are awarded each year at the NFL annual meeting which is held at the end of March; typically, about three or four weeks before the draft.

there is the answer

nepg
01-01-2012, 09:15 PM
You mean... Luck? And like I said, I'd be happy with Tannehill. Flynn's an option. We lost to AZ today, so I believe we'll be picking around the 10 spot. Griffin could be still be there, too.
They're picking 11th or 12th at best. They really don't have a shot at a QB in the first round, which means they need to look to acquire one by some other means.

Caulibflower
01-01-2012, 09:34 PM
It's basically so that teams who draft well don't get completely hosed over if they can't afford to re-sign their FAs, I think.

This is the answer I'm looking for.

Caulibflower
01-01-2012, 09:37 PM
Griffin will not fall out of the top 5.

Griffin is "falling" now if he doesn't go top-5? Sheesh. I know there was an early run on QBs last year, but Ponder and Gabbert went way too high.


They're picking 11th or 12th at best. They really don't have a shot at a QB in the first round, which means they need to look to acquire one by some other means.

I'd expect Tannehill to be on the board there. Griffin will most likely be gone by then, but Tannehill and Griffen are about the same to me, and mid-late first is how I grade Tannehill.

nepg
01-01-2012, 09:52 PM
Griffin is "falling" now if he doesn't go top-5? Sheesh. I know there was an early run on QBs last year, but Ponder and Gabbert went way too high.

Ponder went a little earlier than he was projected, but Gabbert went about where he should have. I felt there should have been 4 QBs drafted in the Top 5 of the 2011 Draft and that there should have been 6-7 total drafted in the first round. That was one of the best QB classes ever and there were that many teams in need of a QB. 2011 has zero bearing on 2012 other than some team really missed the boat on getting a QB last year when they had the chance and the need.

Regardless, Griffin should go Top 8 with the Browns, Redskins, and Dolphins picking there. The Bills might even get in on the RG3 action. All of them are before the Seahawks pick

I'd expect Tannehill to be on the board there. Griffin will most likely be gone by then, but Tannehill and Griffen are about the same to me, and mid-late first is how I grade Tannehill.

Tannehill is no where near RG3. He might go in the second round this year, but needs a lot of work. Going back to the 2011 class, Tannehill barely sniffs being in the Top 10 QBs compared to those prospects.

Scotty D
01-01-2012, 10:13 PM
Just don't give him the keys to the franchise. Temper expectations. He is in a really good situation, scheme, has great players, and played a pathetic secondary today. The Patriots secondary was better last year but I don't remember it being top end. Give him a mid-size deal and see how it goes.

JBCX
01-01-2012, 10:27 PM
Griffin is "falling" now if he doesn't go top-5? Sheesh. I know there was an early run on QBs last year, but Ponder and Gabbert went way too high.


RGIII is 10x the prospect that Ponder or Gabbert were.

I will be absolutely shocked if he falls out of the top 5. There will be a run on RGIII in the top 5, and maybe even top 3, due to the lack of elite QB depth in this draft. There are alot of QB-needy teams, and Luck is going to the Colts, so after that, alot of teams like the Dolphins, Redskins, Browns, and such will be gunning for RGIII.



I'd expect Tannehill to be on the board there. Griffin will most likely be gone by then, but Tannehill and Griffen are about the same to me, and mid-late first is how I grade Tannehill.

Luck and RGIII are elite prospects, after that, it's pretty hit-or-miss.

nepg
01-01-2012, 11:21 PM
RGIII is 10x the prospect that Ponder or Gabbert were.


Ponder? Yes. Gabbert? I rank RG3 better, but with long-range projections, it's close.

Gabbert was not a guy who was going to be successful right away. He has footwork issues (easily fixed) and still has issues with the phantom pass rush. I think he'll be OK in the latter, and become a really good QB.

I think RG3 will come in right away and perform well, but it's a lot closer with Gabbert potentially getting his **** together.

FUNBUNCHER
01-01-2012, 11:41 PM
On the field, Gabby isn't in the same universe as RGIII as a pro prospect.

Gabbert is about tools and potential. It was NEVER about his game.

brat316
01-01-2012, 11:52 PM
http://i39.tinypic.com/2l9g8m.png

Its all in the system.

Also is Flynn the next Matt schaub?

Caulibflower
01-01-2012, 11:56 PM
Tannehill is no where near RG3. He might go in the second round this year, but needs a lot of work. Going back to the 2011 class, Tannehill barely sniffs being in the Top 10 QBs compared to those prospects.

Might just have to agree to disagree on this one. I think he's a better prospect than either Gabbert or Ponder were. But I'll stop posting so much about Tannehill. For now. I'll probably put together a more comprehensive comparison and ranking of the QBs at some point.

jackalope
01-03-2012, 01:11 PM
Andrew Brandt, who used to work in Green Bay's front office under Ted Thompson, does not expect Green Bay to tag Flynn.

http://www.nationalfootballpost.com/New-Year-New-Questions.html&page=2

Could the Packers place the Franchise Tag on Flynn and trade him?
They could, but I doubt they will. The one-year tender offer amount of roughly $14.5 million Aaron Rodgers is scheduled to make $8 million would immediately become guaranteed were Flynn to sign it. In that event, the Packers would be on the hook for that amount pending a trade, giving Flynn enormous leverage with a trade and/or a new contract.
Further, the Packers have been in negotiations with tight end Jermichael Finley on a new contract, using a relatively low potential Tag number of $5.4 million on Finley as their leverage. They would certainly like to keep that option available.
Finally, the Tag is meant to "reward" players with intent to sign rather than use as a placeholder while trying to trade the player. The NFLPA is keeping a watchful eye on these scenarios.
My sense is the Packers will not use this tool to hold Flynn in place. But, as always, stay tuned.


I also heard the point brought up that Mike Holmgren inquired about Matt Flynn before signing Senneca Wallace.

bucfan12
01-03-2012, 01:17 PM
Depends on the offense he goes too, he could thrive. Washington or Cleveland seem like perfect fits to me. Seattle is a sleeper.

Ness
01-03-2012, 03:52 PM
Wherever he goes, I think some team is going to give a huge deal to Flynn and expect these great things from him from the get-go. I could easily see the Redskins doing that. Any team willing to put their faith in Flynn really needs to do their homework on him and not put the weight of the world on his shoulders. Build around him and put other pieces in place to help him out.

gpngc
01-03-2012, 04:15 PM
Green Bay will franchise Flynn and deal him to Seattle or Cleveland.

They like Finley, but he is expendable. Here's proof:

-They won a Super Bowl without him.
-He disappears frequently and it doesn't hinder the offense.
-They like Quarless and Crabtree.
-Rumblings that Finley would ***** about being franchised as a TE rather than a WR.

GB will likely negotiate with Finley and tag Flynn, letting CLE and SEA duke it out. It is entirely possible that either would consider giving up a first-round pick (even high) for him.

Mufasa
01-03-2012, 04:59 PM
Andrew Brandt, who used to work in Green Bay's front office under Ted Thompson, does not expect Green Bay to tag Flynn.

http://www.nationalfootballpost.com/New-Year-New-Questions.html&page=2



I also heard the point brought up that Mike Holmgren inquired about Matt Flynn before signing Senneca Wallace.

That didn't stop the Patriots from doing it with Matt Cassel. And the Packers did it with Corey Williams a couple of years ago. I don't know the rules on if a team is able to talk trades with other teams for an unsigned player, but legal or not, I'm sure they have a trade lined up before they use the tag.

keylime_5
01-03-2012, 05:57 PM
Trading for or signing Flynn (if he is allowed to hit the market) is EXACTLY the type of thing that Holmgren has done in Seattle with Hasselbeck and before that in Green Bay when Ron Wolf acquired Favre from the Falcons. Seems like a sure thing that the Browns would at least try to bring in Flynn. If they were to trade for him and the asking price is a 1st, then you know they have the ammo having acquired an extra first from the Falcons last year.

...I do have to admit, Flynn throwing to Greg Little and potentially Justin Blackmon sounds quite good to me.

PoopSandwich
01-03-2012, 06:10 PM
If the Browns snagged Flynn, Blackmon, another FA WR to go along with Blackmon/Little, and retained Hillis/or picked up one of the few guys in free agency I would be beyond happy.

Obviously that is a lot to have happen, but I wouldn't really be shocked if it fell that way... We could then use the rest of our picks to go BPA or with our 4th pick try to hold a bit of a ransom if RG3 is still there and settle for Floyd.

J-Mike88
01-03-2012, 06:19 PM
That didn't stop the Patriots from doing it with Matt Cassel. And the Packers did it with Corey Williams a couple of years ago. I don't know the rules on if a team is able to talk trades with other teams for an unsigned player, but legal or not, I'm sure they have a trade lined up before they use the tag.
The Packers traded Mark Brunell and Aaron Brooks in the early 90's when they were backups to Favre. I think we got like 3rd or 4th rounders for those guys.

I wonder if the Packers tried hard to extend Flynn before it got to this point.
I'd hate to not be able to cash him in when everyone agrees he'd fetch at least a 1st rounder now. All I want is an OLB for him.

Iamcanadian
01-03-2012, 06:20 PM
Believe me, he will bring in a pretty high 1st rounder. He is a hot property right now.

jackalope
01-03-2012, 06:20 PM
Green Bay will franchise Flynn and deal him to Seattle or Cleveland.

They like Finley, but he is expendable. Here's proof:

-They won a Super Bowl without him.
Yes, but the offense has averaged 10 points a game more with him this year.

-He disappears frequently and it doesn't hinder the offense.When he "disappears" though, he's still on the field. He's a huge matchup problem for defenses and allows other receivers to have success.
-They like Quarless and Crabtree.Quarless just suffered a serious injury. While I like him he isn't close to the kind of talent Finley is. The same could be said for DJ Williams. Crabtree is a blocking tightend. In his career he has 10 catches for 99 yards and 1 TD. He's an asset to the team, but you can't compare him to Finley.
-Rumblings that Finley would ***** about being franchised as a TE rather than a WR.Finley has said he'd be fine with receiving the franchise tag. There was word that he would argue he's a receiver, but I don't think you can really hold that against him. It's a somewhat reasonable tactic, but I think ultimately it wouldn't work for it.

I would like to see the team negotiate a long term deal with Finley soon, and free up the franchise tag, since I think Finley is going to get a long term deal in Green Bay eventually anyway.

descendency
01-03-2012, 06:24 PM
Believe me, he will bring in a pretty high 1st rounder. He is a hot property right now.

If anyone gives up a top 10 pick, they are idiots.

J-Mike88
01-03-2012, 06:27 PM
If anyone gives up a top 10 pick, they are idiots.
I agree.... but the teams who people say are the most likely, Cleveland and Seattle, what picks do they have in the first 2 rounds?

BTW, Ted Thompson loves his mid and late-round draft picks, it seems, as much as is early ones.

Ness
01-03-2012, 06:30 PM
Trading for or signing Flynn (if he is allowed to hit the market) is EXACTLY the type of thing that Holmgren has done in Seattle with Hasselbeck and before that in Green Bay when Ron Wolf acquired Favre from the Falcons. Seems like a sure thing that the Browns would at least try to bring in Flynn. If they were to trade for him and the asking price is a 1st, then you know they have the ammo having acquired an extra first from the Falcons last year.

...I do have to admit, Flynn throwing to Greg Little and potentially Justin Blackmon sounds quite good to me.

Well they are going to need a running game. Hillis, Hardesty, and Ogbonnaya aren't the answer there. I add Hillis to that list just because he seemed really disconnected from the team. Didn't seem like he cared.

Iamcanadian
01-03-2012, 06:36 PM
Trading for or signing Flynn (if he is allowed to hit the market) is EXACTLY the type of thing that Holmgren has done in Seattle with Hasselbeck and before that in Green Bay when Ron Wolf acquired Favre from the Falcons. Seems like a sure thing that the Browns would at least try to bring in Flynn. If they were to trade for him and the asking price is a 1st, then you know they have the ammo having acquired an extra first from the Falcons last year.

...I do have to admit, Flynn throwing to Greg Little and potentially Justin Blackmon sounds quite good to me.

Trade makes a lot of sense given Holmgren's track record. Let's hope he isn't another Kolb.

CashmoneyDrew
01-03-2012, 06:40 PM
Well they are going to need a running game. Hillis, Hardesty, and Ogbonnaya aren't the answer there. I add Hillis to that list just because he seemed really disconnected from the team. Didn't seem like he cared.

Hey, shut your dirty, dirty mouth.

keylime_5
01-03-2012, 06:46 PM
Trade makes a lot of sense given Holmgren's track record. Let's hope he isn't another Kolb.

indeed, let's hope. then again kolb never threw for almost 500 yards and 6 TDs in the snow either.

i think atlanta's first packaged with some midround picks would be enough for flynn. the question is will green bay franchise him, and if they do would we be willing to give up premium picks for him?

Iamcanadian
01-03-2012, 07:02 PM
indeed, let's hope. then again kolb never threw for almost 500 yards and 6 TDs in the snow either.

i think atlanta's first packaged with some midround picks would be enough for flynn. the question is will green bay franchise him, and if they do would we be willing to give up premium picks for him?

Good question and would Holmgren pay Flynn 14.5 million.

WCH
01-03-2012, 07:25 PM
-Rumblings that Finley would ***** about being franchised as a TE rather than a WR.


Just because Florio keeps suggesting it, doesn't mean that it's true. Here were Finley's stats this season:

55 catches, 767 yards, 13.9 ypc, 8 tds.

Those are really good numbers for a TE -- it's the best season by a Packer TE since Paul Coffman in 1983 -- but they aren't the kind of numbers that make a TE think that he can reasonably argue that he should be tagged as a WR. His agent would be laughed out of the NFL if they seriously made that argument.

gpngc
01-03-2012, 07:27 PM
OK then my other three points stand lol.

Point is, I think the Packers would prefer multiple picks rather than one year of Finley.

Mufasa
01-03-2012, 07:43 PM
Good question and would Holmgren pay Flynn 14.5 million.
Any team that trades for him would immediately sign him to a multiyear deal.

jackalope
01-03-2012, 07:44 PM
Just because Florio keeps suggesting it, doesn't mean that it's true. Here were Finley's stats this season:

55 catches, 767 yards, 13.9 ypc, 8 tds.

Those are really good numbers for a TE -- it's the best season by a Packer TE since Paul Coffman in 1983 -- but they aren't the kind of numbers that make a TE think that he can reasonably argue that he should be tagged as a WR. His agent would be laughed out of the NFL if they seriously made that argument.

He wants to use the percentage of time that he stands and plays wide to argue that he is a receiver, similar to Suggs arguing he was a defensive end. I think you could shoot that down fairly easily by pointing to the fact that no receiver in the NFL ever plays with his hand on the ground or lines up in the some of the spots he does, whereas plenty of TEs stand up. Also, as you pointed out, those aren't anywhere near top five WR numbers.

OK then my other three points stand lol.

Point is, I think the Packers would prefer multiple picks rather than one year of Finley.

I did give my take on those points on the previous page, in case you missed it.

WCH
01-03-2012, 07:58 PM
He wants to use the percentage of time that he stands and plays wide to argue that he is a receiver, similar to Suggs arguing he was a defensive end. I think you could shoot that down fairly easily by pointing to the fact that no receiver in the NFL ever plays with his hand on the ground or lines up in the some of the spots he does, whereas plenty of TEs stand up. Also, as you pointed out, those aren't anywhere near top five WR numbers.


I understand the logic behind this hypothetical argument (Florio brings it up multiple times a month). That argument seemed like a valid concern when people were expecting a 70 catch, 1100 yard season, 12 TD season. But after this season he pretty much has to take the TE Franchise tag, and be happy about it. I don't even think it's a given that GB uses the franchise tag on him (I think they could easily not use the franchise tag at all this year).

And like you said, no receiver plays with his hand on the ground, so it's a pretty stupid argument from the start.

I think that there's approximately a 0% chance that the Finley brain-trust decides to make the argument that he should be classified as a WR.

gpngc
01-03-2012, 08:02 PM
I did give my take on those points on the previous page, in case you missed it.

I did miss it, and I understand your points about keeping Finley but I still believe that the Packers would take the pick(s) instead. Especially considering they could potentially retain Finley as well by signing him long-term. We can agree to disagree. Maybe I'll be dead wrong, they'll give the TE tag to Finley and let Flynn walk (hopefully to Seattle). I'd be fine with that!

WCH
01-03-2012, 08:12 PM
Maybe I'll be dead wrong, they'll give the TE tag to Finley and let Flynn walk (hopefully to Seattle). I'd be fine with that!

I wouldn't be incredibly shocked if they didn't use the franchise tag on either player. After Kolb fell flat on his face, it's not a slam-dunk that a team will want to trade premium picks for Flynn and give him $15 Million in guaranteed cash, and Finley has "only" played like a top-8 TE this season.

gpngc
01-03-2012, 08:15 PM
I wouldn't be incredibly shocked if they didn't use the franchise tag on either player. It's not a slam-dunk that a team will want to trade for Flynn, and Finley has "only" played like a top-8 TE this season.

I think it is.

There are just too many teams that need a QB. And without Barkley, there's a chance that only two teams fill that void via the draft. Maybe three or four if teams for some reason believe in Tanny/Jones (which I don't think they will).

J-Mike88
01-03-2012, 08:16 PM
Good question and would Holmgren pay Flynn 14.5 million.
Nobody would (willingly), but they'd give him a long term deal a la Cassell and Kolb.

WCH
01-03-2012, 09:00 PM
Nobody would (willingly), but they'd give him a long term deal a la Cassell and Kolb.

My concern is that Cassell and Kolb will hurt Flynn's value, not help it. Teams could easily view GB as a "Quarterback Factory" and figure that Flynn is a major risk to fall flat on his face in a new system.

tjsunstein
01-03-2012, 09:31 PM
Remember when we thought Brohm/Rodgers would be the one in this position, never the 7th round pick Flynn.

Giantsfan1080
01-03-2012, 09:34 PM
Remember when we thought Brohm/Rodgers would be the one in this position, never the 7th round pick Flynn.

What's been the common theme in GB in developing QB's like this? I'm assuming it's McCarthy is just that good at developing a QB but I don't know if there are some other coaches there as well.

jackalope
01-03-2012, 09:36 PM
Remember when we thought Brohm/Rodgers would be the one in this position, never the 7th round pick Flynn.

Right. Brohm was the worst draft pick Ted Thompson has made in Green Bay. It was pretty clear that Flynn was superior by the end of their first preseason.

jackalope
01-03-2012, 09:47 PM
What's been the common theme in GB in developing QB's like this? I'm assuming it's McCarthy is just that good at developing a QB but I don't know if there are some other coaches there as well.

McCarthy is a major part of it. Green Bay always has their "Quarterback School" over the offseason, which is apparently huge in developing their guys. QB coach Tom Clements also is important. He's currently in the running for the Penn State job. I couldn't tell you how big of a role offensive coordinator Joe Philbin plays.

TonyGfortheTD
01-03-2012, 09:52 PM
Feel sorry for any team that makes a decision off his performance against a bad defensive coach (the Lions have talent up front, but Gunther sucks) and overpays.

Giantsfan1080
01-03-2012, 10:10 PM
He also played pretty well against the Pats D a couple of years ago.

tjsunstein
01-03-2012, 11:14 PM
It doesn't matter what defense he did it against, he's shown he's capable of doing it and that's what GMs jizz over.

Kevin Kolb is your recent prime example.

Brothgar
01-03-2012, 11:28 PM
I hope that the Pack does franchise Flynn and are unable to trade him. Then A Rod gets angry (rightfully) that he isn't the highest paid player on his team. Then they trade A-Rod to Denver for Tim Tebow and some draft picks. A-Rod then curses the Packers to never win a Super Bowl for 50 years. They then go on a bender of bad seasons watching the Lions win the division for years right before the curse is lifted the Packers go 0-18 being officially the worst team in history. But as you rebound the Lions go for a nearly undefeated season on their way to what may be back to back super bowls.

tjsunstein
01-03-2012, 11:30 PM
I hope that the Pack does franchise Flynn and are unable to trade him. Then A Rod gets angry (rightfully) that he isn't the highest paid player on his team. Then they trade A-Rod to Denver for Tim Tebow and some draft picks. A-Rod then curses the Packers to never win a Super Bowl for 50 years. They then go on a bender of bad seasons watching the Lions win the division for years right before the curse is lifted the Packers go 0-18 being officially the worst team in history. But as you rebound the Lions go for a nearly undefeated season on their way to what may be back to back super bowls.
You're totally cheifin whatever you're smoking.

TonyGfortheTD
01-04-2012, 12:09 AM
It doesn't matter what defense he did it against, he's shown he's capable of doing it and that's what GMs jizz over.

Kevin Kolb is your recent prime example.

Doesn't make it a smart decision, and the defense he did it against does make a difference if they are making it easy.

holt_bruce81
01-04-2012, 12:17 AM
Believe me, he will bring in a pretty high 1st rounder. He is a hot property right now.

And I'm going to laugh my ass off when that happens.

I think Flynn is good but he's not and will never be an elite Quarterback.

phlysac
01-04-2012, 12:23 AM
Billy Volek is somewhere wishing this thread was about him.

Ness
01-04-2012, 12:28 AM
Poor Volek. Dude never got a chance. Fisher went nuclear on him like he missed his bedtime or something. Next thing you know, he's in San Diego. Would have been weird if Fisher went back to San Diego with Volek on the roster.

J-Mike88
01-04-2012, 05:50 AM
Doesn't make it a smart decision, and the defense he did it against does make a difference if they are making it easy.
Everyone whines about their defense this year except about 6 teams or so.

Flynn has started 2 games, last year on primetime at New England, and this game against the Lions.
Remember, the Lions, without Suh last month, held the Saints to 31 points in the Super Dome. They are not one of the terrible defenses, and they had Suh here Sunday. That front 4 is one of the best, if not the best, other than the Giants, at rushing QBs.

That 2-game body of work was not against out-of-the-ordinary bad defenses. They are typical of what today's NFL defenses are, although most teams wish they had a DL like the Lions.

That being said, I have the odds that the Packers are able to parlay Flynn into a trade at slightly under 50%, partly because Ted Thompson seems like he won't gamble or won't go against what the letter of the law is in terms of the franchise tag intention.

Razor
01-04-2012, 05:58 AM
It doesn't matter what defense he did it against, he's shown he's capable of doing it and that's what GMs jizz over.

Kevin Kolb is your recent prime example.

So is Matt Cassell who did it for 16 games. Not two. Sixteen. You're not getting a first round pick for Flynn, no way.

AntoinCD
01-04-2012, 06:03 AM
So is Matt Cassell who did it for 16 games. Not two. Sixteen. You're not getting a first round pick for Flynn, no way.

A more likely trade would be Flynn plus GB's first round pick to move up into the teens with someone like Seattle or possibly KC but I'd be surprised if Pioli decided to move on from Cassell

WCH
01-04-2012, 06:11 AM
You're totally cheifin whatever you're smoking.

At first I thought that he smoking synthetic weed, but then I realized he was referencing the Lions "curse of Bobby Layne" scenario.

And as a Packer fan, there's no way in hell I would even consider giving up anything higher than a second round pick for Flynn. As a talent, Flynn is a lot closer to Kevin Kolb than he is to Aaron Rodgers.

If a team does trade a first for Flynn, they'd be wise to bring Joe Philbin in with him.

A more likely trade would be Flynn plus GB's first round pick to move up into the teens with someone like Seattle or possibly KC but I'd be surprised if Pioli decided to move on from Cassell
This seems plausible. It's basically the same trade that GB/Seattle made to send Hasselbeck to the Seahawks. Seattle's GM also came from Green Bay.

Shane P. Hallam
01-04-2012, 06:31 AM
Right. Brohm was the worst draft pick Ted Thompson has made in Green Bay. It was pretty clear that Flynn was superior by the end of their first preseason.

I can put Justin Harrell up for consideration? Haha.

jackalope
01-04-2012, 10:21 AM
I can put Justin Harrell up for consideration? Haha.

Harrell busted hard, but he at least made sense and had talent. Thompson took a risk on a guy who had had injury problems, and it didn't pay off.

Selecting Brohm in the second round was a confusing move to me from the start. The best case scenario for that pick was for Brohm to pan out, and after a few years be traded away for a draft pick slightly higher than the one that was used on him. Thompson evidently puts a high value on backup QBs, but I just don't understand drafting one that high. Brohm, who was supposed to be extremely pro-ready coming out of Louisville, didn't appear to have the ability or grasp of the game to be second string as a rookie. He also didn't have the personality to learn the offense better or really improve at all during his rookie season. He played one season in Green Bay and took zero snaps. His career passer rating is 26.

WCH
01-04-2012, 11:55 AM
I agree. Harrell at least played well for that, what was it...35 minutes that he was healthy?

There was never a point when you could look at anything Brohm did and think "Okay, maybe this guy belongs in the NFL." That was one of those picks where you knew the team screwed up right from the first day of camp.

Zycho32
01-06-2012, 03:52 AM
Brohm sort of made sense at the time, under the rationale that Rodgers wasn't close to proven yet, and could potentially either flame out or get injured, whichever one.

And it's very easy to make such claims as to a QB's ability to succeed in hindsight.

RCAChainGang
01-06-2012, 08:20 AM
I'm an instant fan of Flynn wherever he goes. He is freaking awesome. Never forget the championship he brought LSU.

bearsfan_51
01-06-2012, 08:24 AM
I would say about tree fiddy.

Brothgar
01-06-2012, 08:38 AM
Brohm sort of made sense at the time, under the rationale that Rodgers wasn't close to proven yet, and could potentially either flame out or get injured, whichever one.

And it's very easy to make such claims as to a QB's ability to succeed in hindsight.

Brohm made a ton of sense he was highly considered a first round prospect. Most of the off season that year he was being talked about as a top 15 prospect. Taking him in the late second wasn't exactly a terrible move.

jackalope
01-20-2012, 09:19 PM
With Joe Philbin now getting the head coaching job in Miami, I have to think that the Dolphins become the frontrunners for Flynn. Miami, Seattle, and Cleveland are all very realistic possibilities, with Oakland and Washington also in the mix.

bucfan12
01-20-2012, 09:20 PM
With Joe Philbin now getting the head coaching job in Miami, I have to think that the Dolphins become the frontrunners for Flynn. Miami, Seattle, and Cleveland are all very realistic possibilities, with Oakland and Washington also in the mix.

I think that was a big part of the Philbin hire. There is a huge need at QB there and Flynn already knows the offense.

keylime_5
01-20-2012, 09:32 PM
With Joe Philbin now getting the head coaching job in Miami, I have to think that the Dolphins become the frontrunners for Flynn. Miami, Seattle, and Cleveland are all very realistic possibilities, with Oakland and Washington also in the mix.

I want Miami to sign Flynn and Washington to trade for Peyton Manning. :D That would mean Griffin = Brown.

jackalope
01-20-2012, 09:45 PM
I think that was a big part of the Philbin hire. There is a huge need at QB there and Flynn already knows the offense.

Flynn remaining in the same system should ease a lot of nerves in when it comes to him being a bust free agent. Flynn has been developed in the same offense with Philbin as his OC since being drafted, so he would be best served and probably inclined to follow Philbin. I imagine Philbin would like to bring in Tom Clements (Green Bay's QB coach) to be his OC, but I think Clements taking over Philbin's old job would be more likely.

WCH
01-20-2012, 10:08 PM
I would say about tree fiddy.

Not sure if serious, but sounds about right. He has the potential to be a real interception machine for any team that signs him.

MetSox17
01-21-2012, 09:23 PM
I'm just curious to see if the Packers are gonna have the balls to tag him and let Finley test free agency (where someone will overpay him and the Packers won't match) or tag Finley and let Flynn walk.

SickwithIt1010
01-21-2012, 09:25 PM
If I'm the Pack, I tag Finley and Idk if I would think twice about it. Sure, you lose whatever type of compensation you would get for Flynn, but this is a league where teams with elite tight ends are thriving and Finley is exactly that. He causes match up nightmares and is a huge part of that offense.

Giantsfan1080
01-21-2012, 09:27 PM
You don't need an elite TE to have an above average offense.

MetSox17
01-21-2012, 09:28 PM
You don't, but it does bring such a different dynamic when you have a guy that's too fast for LBs and too big for DBs. Just really gonna be curious to see how it plays out.

Basileus777
01-21-2012, 09:41 PM
For all his physical talent Finley is not an elite player at his position and is still only Green Bay's 3rd best/most important receiver. He's going to get overpaid, but I'd still tag him over Flynn because Finley is likely better than what you would get from that high draft pick you'd get from trading Flynn.

I'm just curious to see if the Packers are gonna have the balls to tag him and let Finley test free agency (where someone will overpay him and the Packers won't match) or tag Finley and let Flynn walk.
I think Green Bay would likely lose Finley if they tried that. It'd be an interesting gamble, but some team would throw big money at Finley and the opportunity to be a #1 option in an offense and I think he'd leave.

descendency
01-21-2012, 10:17 PM
So is Matt Cassell who did it for 16 games. Not two. Sixteen. You're not getting a first round pick for Flynn, no way.

Matt Schaub commanded 2 seconds, which is basically a late first.

If the Packers can hold onto Flynn, then the price might go up. If the Packers need that cap space, they should dump him for a decent offer. (a high 3rd is way better than a compensatory 3rd)

Brent
01-22-2012, 12:02 AM
I don't think the demand for Flynn will be as large as people imagine.

Brothgar
01-22-2012, 12:14 AM
I don't think the demand for Flynn will be as large as people imagine.

I have to agree I think there are at most three teams out for Flynn. Miami Washington and that's about it.

jackalope
01-22-2012, 12:38 AM
I have to agree I think there are at most three teams out for Flynn. Miami Washington and that's about it.

You don't think Cleveland would be interested in him if he were to hit the open market? Holmgren was reportedly interested in trading for Flynn two years ago, before he had a single NFL start.

Finsfan79
01-22-2012, 01:17 AM
hope pack franchises flynn. I would love for miami to sign Finley!

nepg
01-22-2012, 03:22 AM
Flynn should go to Cleveland or Seattle. He'd be able to integrate himself into the offense very quickly in either situation. Seattle is better for him because they have more weapons, but Cleveland is more of a Green Bay-type atmosphere and a smoother transition going from McCarthy to Shurmur.

MetSox17
01-22-2012, 03:28 AM
If the Packers wanna keep Finley they better tag him, because i think Houston will try to sign him and he'll wanna come back home.

WCH
01-22-2012, 03:36 AM
If the Packers wanna keep Finley they better tag him, because i think Houston will try to sign him and he'll wanna come back home.

Everything that I've read and heard for the past two years (including his tweets) has indicated that Finley wants to make Green Bay his home.

I don't think Houston is going to get preferential treatment. He's either staying in Green Bay or going to the highest bidder.

jackalope
01-25-2012, 04:13 PM
I haven't listened to it yet, but in Rodgers' weekly radio show he said that he spoke to both Flynn and Philbin and he believes there is a "strong possibility" that Flynn will play in Miami next year.

SuperPacker
01-25-2012, 04:42 PM
I haven't listened to it yet, but in Rodgers' weekly radio show he said that he spoke to both Flynn and Philbin and he believes there is a "strong possibility" that Flynn will play in Miami next year.

I wish Flynn the best of luck.

jackalope
02-22-2012, 08:02 PM
With Finley now signing a contract, franchising Flynn just became a very real possibility.

WCH
02-22-2012, 09:03 PM
I just don't see it happening unless they have a *wink-knod* deal in place with Miami or another team. If they offer him the franchise tender then Flynn is going to sign that thing before it even gets done printing, and then it's guaranteed money.

Then again, I'm not tremendously high on Flynn (even Bears fans like him more than I do, and I bleed Green and Gold), so his perceived value might be a lot higher than I would value him at. In which case, tagging him is a very real option, I guess...

gpngc
02-22-2012, 09:10 PM
I just don't see it happening unless they have a *wink-knod* deal in place with Miami or another team. If they offer him the franchise tender then Flynn is going to sign that thing before it even gets done printing, and then it's guaranteed money.

With the extremely low supply and great demand for QBs, this is a very realistic possibility...

You could say a team could call their bluff and wait for him to get to FA, but then you are risking another team jumping in... GB may take a 2nd if it boils down to hardball - why not from their standpoint?

jackalope
02-22-2012, 09:11 PM
I just don't see it happening unless they have a *wink-knod* deal in place with Miami or another team. If they offer him the franchise tender then Flynn is going to sign that thing before it even gets done printing, and then it's guaranteed money.

They very well could work out a deal before tagging him. The Packers have until March 5th to tag Flynn. So, they could theoretically negotiate with Miami, Cleveland, and Seattle and have a deal in place before tagging him.

Complex
02-22-2012, 09:41 PM
Damn it Finley. Now the packers are going to get a 1st rounder or 2nd rounder at least. I hope no one wants to trade a 1st rounder for Flynn so they get stuck with him.

dan77733
02-22-2012, 10:06 PM
If the Packers franchise Flynn, any team that gives up two first rounders (even though it could be less) and a long term deal starting at $14m a year would be nuts.

Mufasa
02-22-2012, 10:15 PM
If the Packers franchise Flynn, any team that gives up two first rounders (even though it could be less) and a long term deal starting at $14m a year would be nuts.

Yeah, but that's not what would happen. It'd be more like a high second round pick, not two firsts. And the contract wouldn't start at $14 million a year, they'd give him a new contract when they acquire him, probably around $9 million a year.

dan77733
02-22-2012, 10:44 PM
True but what happens if he doesnt agree to a long term deal with a team that wants to trade for him? Flynn can accept $14m guaranteed for 2012 and either be an UFA in 2013 if he stays in GB or get traded to a team for one year and either gets franchised again in 2013 or becomes an UFA.

Flynn is in a great position but he should be patient after he signs the franchise tender in regards to accepting any long term deal because he could potentially earn more guaranteed money in two years as a franchise player than a long term deal.

And I think that $9m is too low for Flynn..... Look at Kolb's contract from Rotoworld.com -

7/29/2011: Signed a six-year, $65 million contract. The deal contains $12 million guaranteed, including a $10 million signing bonus and Kolb's first-year base salary. Annual $500,000 workout bonuses are available throughout the contract's life. 2012: $1 million (+ $7 million option bonus due 3/17), 2013: $9 million (+ $2 million roster bonus due in March), 2014-2016: $10 million, 2017: Free Agent

---

Flynn is worth MORE than Kolb. Kolb was never worth what he received and if he's worth a 2nd and DRC in trade compensation, Packers should get more for Flynn. And I also thing that the starting point has to match Kolb which would be at an $10.8m average.

Flynn can make a huge amount of guaranteed money in basically a year by being franchised this off-season by GB and next year if he gets traded, doesnt sign a long term deal and gets franchised again.

Any team that trades for Flynn and cant get him to sign a long term deal would definitely franchise him in 2013 because there's no way that team would let him leave.

One thing is for sure...this off-season is going to be a lot of fun to watch.

Mufasa
02-22-2012, 11:09 PM
A team isn't going to trade for him unless they know ahead of time that he'll sign long term. And how much he gets per year really depends on how much is guaranteed. Sure Kolb's average may be $10.8, but he only got $12 million guaranteed, which means he probably won't actually be seeing much more of that money. Ryan Fitzpatrick on the other hand is averaging just under $9, but he got double the guaranteed money Kolb did. I'd imagine Flynn would be wanting something closer to Fitzpatrick's. The franchise tag assures him $14 so he'll want at least that much guaranteed in his new deal and should take more if he can get it.

bearsfan_51
02-22-2012, 11:33 PM
Yeah, but that's not what would happen. It'd be more like a high second round pick, not two firsts. And the contract wouldn't start at $14 million a year, they'd give him a new contract when they acquire him, probably around $9 million a year.
It's Matt Flynn.....

Mufasa
02-22-2012, 11:55 PM
It's Matt Flynn.....

Yeah, and they're Kevin Kolb and Ryan Fitzpatrick. Teams without a QB will give anything to get one.

bearsfan_51
02-23-2012, 07:46 AM
Yeah, and they're Kevin Kolb and Ryan Fitzpatrick. Teams without a QB will give anything to get one.
No, they won't. This is the problem with taking something that is partially true, and stretching it to a totally unfounded absolute.

The Cards gave up a 2nd round pick and a player that they seemingly didn't want. That's not two 1sts. It's not even close.

I have no idea why you mentioned Ryan Fitzpatrick.

I'm sure the Packers could get a 2nd for Flynn, but they absolutely run the risk that he'll snatch that 14 million guaranteed up and be difficult in the trade process. It doesn't seem likely, but if you know you're getting 14 million for one year of being a backup, you can certainly be a bit choosier.

indyfan1985
02-23-2012, 08:56 AM
Teams would be stupid to trade too much for Matt Flynn. Its not like he played for a full year like Matt Cassel. He played ONE game this year and before that hasnt played much previously to my knowledge in the NFL.

Why would you give up at least a high 2nd for a guy that is not a proven QB consistently? Id rather go with a young QB in the draft if Im an NFL team needing a QB. And the talent he had around him at GB really helped him in that game. He's not going to have near that wherever he goes.

indyfan1985
02-23-2012, 09:02 AM
I would like to see NO NFL team trade for Flynn and make the Packers eat that 14 million dollars for a backup QB LOL. There are good young QBs in thsi draft and teams would be smarter to go that route rather than trading for a QB who is still unproven on a consistent basis.

jackalope
02-23-2012, 11:26 AM
The Packers are not going to get stuck paying Flynn. Thompson is not a guy who makes decisions on a whim, and if he sees that as a realistic possibility, he's not going to tag him. If the Packers tag Flynn, it will in all likelihood mean that Thompson has a very good sense of the market for Flynn and knows he'll be getting something in return.


I'm sure the Packers could get a 2nd for Flynn, but they absolutely run the risk that he'll snatch that 14 million guaranteed up and be difficult in the trade process. It doesn't seem likely, but if you know you're getting 14 million for one year of being a backup, you can certainly be a bit choosier.

I can't imagine that Flynn has any desire to spend another year on the bench, even if it does guarantee him $14 million. He's going to want to start now, as any QB in his situation would. While it could theoretically give him some leverage in holding up a trade, it's incredibly unlikely that he would actually do that.

Working out a trade with Miami makes the most sense. The team obviously has a connection with Philbin being hired as the head coach and I'm assuming the Flynn wants to go there over anywhere else so that he remains in the same system and gets to play under Philbin.

Finsfan79
02-23-2012, 11:58 AM
A QB with no arm that has 2 starts? I would be hugely pissed if miami traded anything more then a 5th for him. I just dont see the value there sorry. I rather draft Tannehill or trade up for RG3

Let him go to Seattle or Cleveland please

katnip
02-23-2012, 12:04 PM
I'd think Flynn has similar value as Schaub did before he got traded, maybe a bit less.

Just about to post this.

Thunder&Lightning
02-23-2012, 12:04 PM
I dont see him having anywhere close to as much value as Cassell or Kolb had. Those two not panning out havent helped Flynns stock either..

gpngc
02-23-2012, 12:07 PM
The Packers are not going to get stuck paying Flynn. Thompson is not a guy who makes decisions on a whim, and if he sees that as a realistic possibility, he's not going to tag him. If the Packers tag Flynn, it will in all likelihood mean that Thompson has a very good sense of the market for Flynn and knows he'll be getting something in return.



I can't imagine that Flynn has any desire to spend another year on the bench, even if it does guarantee him $14 million. He's going to want to start now, as any QB in his situation would. While it could theoretically give him some leverage in holding up a trade, it's incredibly unlikely that he would actually do that.

Working out a trade with Miami makes the most sense. The team obviously has a connection with Philbin being hired as the head coach and I'm assuming the Flynn wants to go there over anywhere else so that he remains in the same system and gets to play under Philbin.

Agree. There is no way the Packers get stuck with a $14 million backup. TT would never make a mistake like that lol. If there was even the slightest doubt that a trade MIGHT not get done, they'd let him walk.

Crazy_Chris
02-23-2012, 02:02 PM
I would like to see NO NFL team trade for Flynn and make the Packers eat that 14 million dollars for a backup QB LOL. There are good young QBs in thsi draft and teams would be smarter to go that route rather than trading for a QB who is still unproven on a consistent basis.

Flynn is more proven than the young QBs in this draft. If I'm a QB needy team that isn't able to acquire RG3 I'd have no problem sending a 2nd round pick to GB for Flynn.

AntoinCD
02-23-2012, 02:53 PM
Flynn is more proven than the young QBs in this draft. If I'm a QB needy team that isn't able to acquire RG3 I'd have no problem sending a 2nd round pick to GB for Flynn.

It all really depends. Any team that is thinking about going after Flynn will be evaluating him like they are the draft prospects. Flynn only has two full games in the NFL, so it's not like trading for a guy who has played a full season or more as a starter or even someone who had regular play.

You can guarantee any team with a QB need will be studying his tape from LSU as much as QBs in the draft. They'll be looking at what happened there that made him a 7th round pick.

What has he done to better himself? Has sitting for a few years behind one of the top QBs in the NFL with a great offensive staff helped him go through progessions quicker? Has his arm strength increased? Has his accuracy gotten better? Or, is it a case of him being in a perfect system that hides his flaws? Is it that teams don't have enough tape on him as a pro to properly game plan for him?

Ness
02-23-2012, 03:36 PM
What has he done to better himself? Has sitting for a few years behind one of the top QBs in the NFL with a great offensive staff helped him go through progessions quicker? Has his arm strength increased? Has his accuracy gotten better? Or, is it a case of him being in a perfect system that hides his flaws? Is it that teams don't have enough tape on him as a pro to properly game plan for him?

That really is the key. Flynn could be benefiting from a good system with great offensive playmakers around him. A few quarterbacks like Steve Bono or Elvis Grbac looked good at times with for the 49ers in the early 90's filling in for Steve Young, but didn't have much success elsewhere on different teams and in different systems. If I'm a Dolphins fan for instance though, I'd feel excited and confident if my team traded for Flynn. At least you have the same offensive coordinator there. So Flynn won't be walking into an offense he's completely unfamiliar with. At least in terms of learning an offense. That's a huge advantage. I'd probably make the trade if I'm Miami. They passed on Drew Brees when they had the chance to sign him, and this franchise hasn't had a legitimate every-year starter since the days of Marino.

Babylon
02-23-2012, 03:48 PM
Flynn is more proven than the young QBs in this draft. If I'm a QB needy team that isn't able to acquire RG3 I'd have no problem sending a 2nd round pick to GB for Flynn.

I think 2nd would be as high as i'd go and i like the guy. Average arm but he seems to have everything else and is still relatively young at 26. I'd take him in Seattle over Tannehill and Osweiler seeing as there window for a championship is probably in the next 5 years.

Crazy_Chris
02-23-2012, 04:02 PM
It all really depends. Any team that is thinking about going after Flynn will be evaluating him like they are the draft prospects. Flynn only has two full games in the NFL, so it's not like trading for a guy who has played a full season or more as a starter or even someone who had regular play.

You can guarantee any team with a QB need will be studying his tape from LSU as much as QBs in the draft. They'll be looking at what happened there that made him a 7th round pick.

What has he done to better himself? Has sitting for a few years behind one of the top QBs in the NFL with a great offensive staff helped him go through progessions quicker? Has his arm strength increased? Has his accuracy gotten better? Or, is it a case of him being in a perfect system that hides his flaws? Is it that teams don't have enough tape on him as a pro to properly game plan for him?


All Very good points... Obviously I'm operating under the assumption that Flynn's 2 game recent success isn't mostly due to the system/supporting cast. Which very well may not be true at all. But basically the way I am looking at is I would rather take a risk on Flynn than take a 2nd/3rd Round QB. Which historically has a very insignificant chance of being anything other than a backup QB. Aswell I might prefer to risk a 2nd on Flynn than a 1st on Tannehill.

J-Mike88
02-23-2012, 06:47 PM
Al I might prefer to risk a 2nd on Flynn than a 1st on Tannehill.
No doubt about that.
Guys like Tanneyhill bust about 80% of the time. Look at the draft history in his area.... more guys are forgotten than every accompished something.

I don't know about Matt Flynn either, but I do know he did things that no other Packer QB had ever done, Starr, Dickey, Farve, or Arod included. And this last game he did it with just 3 WRs active as Jennings and Cobb sat out.

Mr. Goosemahn
02-23-2012, 07:21 PM
I think a second is as good as its gonna get. I like the guy, but attempting to make an accurate analysis of him as a QB based on what will probably be the best game of his career is futile, IMO.

People are focusing way too much on the fact that he had 6 TDs. It was amazing, yes, but there's much more that needs to be evaluated. To me, at this point, he's about as big a question mark as any rookie.

Many QBs have such games and then go on to be very mediocre. Derek Anderson had a 5 TD, 330 yard game, and hasn't done anything since. Rocket launcher for an arm, too.

Ness
02-23-2012, 07:53 PM
I think a second is as good as its gonna get. I like the guy, but attempting to make an accurate analysis of him as a QB based on what will probably be the best game of his career is futile, IMO.

People are focusing way too much on the fact that he had 6 TDs. It was amazing, yes, but there's much more that needs to be evaluated. To me, at this point, he's about as big a question mark as any rookie.

Many QBs have such games and then go on to be very mediocre. Derek Anderson had a 5 TD, 330 yard game, and hasn't done anything since. Rocket launcher for an arm, too.

I remember Tony Banks had a game with 5 touchdowns for the Ravens in 2000...

PoopSandwich
02-23-2012, 08:09 PM
Browns should give up 36 or 37 (forget what pick it is) for Flynn cause all he does is win win win and then draft Richardson at 4, Adams at 22, and get one or two of the good receivers in free agency.

fap fap fap fap fap fap fap

gpngc
02-23-2012, 08:11 PM
Browns should give up 36 or 37 (forget what pick it is) for Flynn cause all he does is win win win and then draft Richardson at 4, Adams at 22, and get one or two of the good receivers in free agency.

fap fap fap fap fap fap fap

Your defense DID hold a Charlie Whitehurst/injured Tarvaris Jackson duo to just 3 points. Championship!

PoopSandwich
02-23-2012, 08:44 PM
Your defense DID hold a Charlie Whitehurst/injured Tarvaris Jackson duo to just 3 points. Championship!

SUPER BOWL HERE WE COME

Da-Phins
02-23-2012, 08:55 PM
Hope the Dolphins take a pass on Flynn. Even more so if those sneaky bastards Packers tag him. Yeah it makes sense in the case he would know the offense and that Philbin would know what to do with him from the start, but the Dolphins arent in position to go for an unknown. This team needs a QB who kills. This team needs a proven guy and that guy is...Peyton mother ******* Manning.

Mufasa
02-23-2012, 09:12 PM
Hope the Dolphins take a pass on Flynn. Even more so if those sneaky bastards Packers tag him. Yeah it makes sense in the case he would know the offense and that Philbin would know what to do with him from the start, but the Dolphins arent in position to go for an unknown. This team needs a QB who kills. This team needs a proven guy and that guy is...Peyton mother ******* Manning.

Why? It's not like they're a contender right now.

PoopSandwich
02-23-2012, 09:19 PM
Dolphins could be legit if they added a small amount of talent and get the Peyton Manning we all know. Would definitely put them up for wild card contention.

Plus Manning vs. Brady twice a year then maybe playoffs the media would be like FAP FAP FAP FAP FAP FAP FAP FAP FAP FPA FPA FAP{F APFPAPFPAFPAFPAFPAFPAFPAPFAPFPAFPAFPFPAFPAPFPAFPFA PFFAVRE

jackalope
02-23-2012, 10:20 PM
Browns look to be in the mix. Since I have to think Miami will be as well, Green Bay should be able to use that to get higher compensation if they trade him.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/02/23/report-browns-expected-to-make-a-play-for-matt-flynn/related/

TitleTown088
02-24-2012, 12:20 AM
Browns look to be in the mix. Since I have to think Miami will be as well, Green Bay should be able to use that to get higher compensation if they trade him.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/02/23/report-browns-expected-to-make-a-play-for-matt-flynn/related/

Ack ya, Wunderbar!

J-Mike88
02-24-2012, 09:45 AM
Hope the Dolphins take a pass on Flynn. Even more so if those sneaky bastards Packers tag him. Yeah it makes sense in the case he would know the offense and that Philbin would know what to do with him from the start, but the Dolphins arent in position to go for an unknown.
Flynn IS KNOWN to Philbin, your new coach.
Like Rodgers behind the scenes for 3 years in practices, they knew what they had in Rodgers even if some Farve cocksucking lovers didn't.

Philbin has worked with and seen Flynn for now 4 seasons, and fans have had 2 chances to see him. That is a helluva lot more known than ANY rookie, Luck, Griffin, Tannehill included this year, and Blaine Gabbert, Christy Ponder, Jake Locker last year, all 2st round gambles.

Miami Dolphins, meet your new starting QB, MATT FLYNN.
He will surely do better than your recent #2, #3 round draft pick QBs Pat White, Chad Henne, even the kid from BYU before that. GAMBLES! Lost. Vegas always wins. Take the KNOWN commodity along with Philbin. In fact,
I believe there's been a hoodwink arrangement all along there...

http://packersnews.greenbaypressgazette.com/article/20120223/PKR01/120223107/NFL-franchise-tag-looks-like-real-possibility-for-Green-Bay-Packers-backup-QB-Matt-Flynn?

Brothgar
02-24-2012, 09:59 AM
A little off topic but why isn't anyone talking about Peyton to the Browns?

bearsfan_51
02-24-2012, 09:59 AM
even if some Farve cocksucking lovers didn't.
I believe those are called "Packers fans"

bearsfan_51
02-24-2012, 10:00 AM
A little off topic but why isn't anyone talking about Peyton to the Browns?
Because he wouldn't go.

Brothgar
02-24-2012, 10:03 AM
Because he wouldn't go.

I can't see why not. The browns have

1. A good running game (great with Trent Richardson)
2. an epic O-Line.
3. multiple first and second round picks for sexy WRs.
4. Its not like he is in his 20s and wants to stay in a party city like Miami.
5. The D is much better than what he has in Indy.

bearsfan_51
02-24-2012, 10:05 AM
I can't see why not. The browns have

1. A good running game (great with Trent Richardson)
2. an epic O-Line.
3. multiple first and second round picks for sexy WRs.
4. Its not like he is in his 20s and wants to stay in a party city like Miami.
5. The D is much better than what he has in Indy.
I'm from Cleveland. It sucks.

But on top of that, their receivers are bad, and their coach is unproven. You could say that same thing about Miami, but I'm guessing he'd just rather live there.

AntoinCD
02-24-2012, 10:20 AM
I'm from Cleveland. It sucks.

But on top of that, their receivers are bad, and their coach is unproven. You could say that same thing about Miami, but I'm guessing he'd just rather live there.

Bitches in thongs in the street. I would wanna live there too

Matthew Jones
02-24-2012, 10:32 AM
What about San Francisco for a dark horse option? Alex Smith played well this season but is a free agent and choosing between Smith and Peyton Manning seems like a no-brainer.

PoopSandwich
02-24-2012, 01:36 PM
I'm from Cleveland. It sucks.

But on top of that, their receivers are bad, and their coach is unproven. You could say that same thing about Miami, but I'm guessing he'd just rather live there.

Only way I see Manning in Cleveland is if we add like Colston and Wayne or something in FA along with him and draft Richardson 4. Would be a massive upgrade and our defense is alright. Not to mention Manning doesn't need a coach.

jackalope
02-24-2012, 03:17 PM
Greg Bedard says he "would be surprised if the Seahawks and GM John Schneider made a play for Matt Flynn" in trade. Bedard is a Patirots (former Packers) beat writer, so take it for what it's worth.

Jason Cole of Yahoo reporting that the Packers are likely to cut Chad Clifton and restructure Driver. This would open the cap space for tagging/trading Flynn.

Ness
02-24-2012, 03:19 PM
What about San Francisco for a dark horse option? Alex Smith played well this season but is a free agent and choosing between Smith and Peyton Manning seems like a no-brainer.

Jim Harbaugh has already committed to Alex for this upcoming year.

WCH
02-25-2012, 05:38 AM
I believe those are called "Packers fans"

Yeah, but there's a lot of revisionist history in Packer Nation now that AR has won a Super Bowl and Favre has suited up for the Vikings.

As an aside, I'm waiting for a chance to vote for Green Bay in the "Most Annoying Fanbase: NFC North Version" poll, because most days I want to *****-slap my fellow Packer fans.

kalbears13
02-25-2012, 05:53 AM
Only way I see Manning in Cleveland is if we add like Colston and Wayne or something in FA along with him and draft Richardson 4. Would be a massive upgrade and our defense is alright. Not to mention Manning doesn't need a coach.

Peyton needs a coach like England needs a royal family.

bearsfan_51
03-05-2012, 09:50 PM
M5QGkOGZubQ

jackalope
03-05-2012, 10:12 PM
Well... at least we should get a third round pick next year. I was really hoping we could land a second round pick for him, but if Thompson didn't think it was worth the risk, I guess that's that. I'd really like to know if they were at least trying to work out a trade.

Unless Miami lands Manning, I definitely expect that to be where Flynn signs.

Rabscuttle
03-05-2012, 10:16 PM
A little off topic but why isn't anyone talking about Peyton to the Browns?

location. location. location.

Brothgar
03-05-2012, 10:22 PM
location. location. location.

Meh Indy isn't exactly New York City.

Bert Macklin
03-05-2012, 10:52 PM
Why are people talking about Peyton in Flynn's thread?

IT'S HIS TIME!

http://instntrply.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/12/flynnbelt.gif

Brothgar
03-05-2012, 11:45 PM
Why are people talking about Peyton in Flynn's thread?

IT'S HIS TIME!



Meh payback for every other thread becoming a Packers thread.

J-Mike88
03-07-2012, 08:19 AM
M5QGkOGZubQ

G*** DAMN YOU!!!!!
We got nothing!!!

2008 Draft, Packers:

Round 2: QB Brian Brohm
he sucked, was let go in year 2 for nothing. wasted high pick

Round 7: QB Matt Flynn
progressed well, started a winter weather game in year 3 and 4, producing numbers that would have put him in MVP talk if projected x 8 games. broke all-time Packers QB record.
Allowed to walk away for nothing.

Great work.

LonghornsLegend
03-07-2012, 09:51 AM
At 26 years old and set to be an unrestricted free agent, I now think Flynn may be capable of being a top ten quarterback as early as next season.

I'm going to let this slide because it was immediately after the game and your emotions were high, so let's both act like you never said it.


I am still going with Miami as the favorite because while everyone else doesn't have a ton of film Philbin has seen him and worked with him in practice for years. I don't know the cap of Miami, but if they can sign Flynn, Mario Manningham to be the #2 WR, and draft a primary receiving threat at TE they are in a good place. Marshall as the #1, Bess is working the slot, Reggie Bush is always a great outlet for a QB and Daniel Thomas looked solid running inside.


That would be a nice core for him to work with, and I think enough weapons to make them competitive each week and explosive. An offense he's familiar with, and arguably a better cast then the one the Packers have minus Jennings(who was out that game). I think he makes a lot of sense for them but they still have some additions to make on offense outside of a QB.

LonghornsLegend
03-07-2012, 09:57 AM
Jim Harbaugh has already committed to Alex for this upcoming year.

See, this doesn't really make sense though. Alex Smith is about to be a free agent. He could have been locked up before the playoffs, or after, or franchised tagged. Any of those options means they are committed to him for the upcoming year & future, right now he's about to be free to talk to any team. It may be likely he returns, but I'd hardly say Harbaugh or the team is committed to a QB they are just letting walk into free agency.

dan77733
03-07-2012, 10:59 AM
49ers have an offer on the table for Smith which from what I have read is a 3 year $30m contract. Dont know about the guaranteed amount but I will say this - if Smith declines that offer, I let him leave and go after Flynn instead and the Wallace and bam, done.

PackerLegend
03-07-2012, 12:26 PM
Can't wait to see Matt starting anywhere. I have high expectations which I think he can meet. Sure we have great weapons but those couldn't save Brian Brohms ass. He looked as bad as you could.

J255979-11nine
03-07-2012, 04:17 PM
G*** DAMN YOU!!!!!
We got nothing!!!

2008 Draft, Packers:

Round 2: QB Brian Brohm
he sucked, was let go in year 2 for nothing. wasted high pick

Round 7: QB Matt Flynn
progressed well, started a winter weather game in year 3 and 4, producing numbers that would have put him in MVP talk if projected x 8 games. broke all-time Packers QB record.
Allowed to walk away for nothing.

Great work.

With the contract that Flynn is going to get you will get a 3rd round compensatory pick next year. It's not a high 2nd like he should warrant, but it's still something.

Iamcanadian
03-07-2012, 05:52 PM
Look, if Green Bay really thought that Flynn had franchise QB ability, they would have franchised him and got a bundle in return. The fact that they are just letting him walk suggests pretty strongly that they didn't think he had that type of ability and that nobody was going to pay a king's ransom for an average starter. Think Cassel, OK but not great.

niel89
03-07-2012, 06:38 PM
I don't think they have the room to franchise him or it would have put too much stain on the team for free agency. I don't think that not tagging him says that they think he is just an average player. Yes he probably is overrated off very little playing time, but he still is largely unknown. They just don't have the cap space to risk using $14.4 million on their back up QB. It limits their free agency flexibility.

jackalope
03-07-2012, 06:42 PM
I'm going to let this slide because it was immediately after the game and your emotions were high, so let's both act like you never said it.


I am still going with Miami as the favorite because while everyone else doesn't have a ton of film Philbin has seen him and worked with him in practice for years. I don't know the cap of Miami, but if they can sign Flynn, Mario Manningham to be the #2 WR, and draft a primary receiving threat at TE they are in a good place. Marshall as the #1, Bess is working the slot, Reggie Bush is always a great outlet for a QB and Daniel Thomas looked solid running inside.


That would be a nice core for him to work with, and I think enough weapons to make them competitive each week and explosive. An offense he's familiar with, and arguably a better cast then the one the Packers have minus Jennings(who was out that game). I think he makes a lot of sense for them but they still have some additions to make on offense outside of a QB.

Yeah, top ten was a bit of an overreaction. There are bound to be a decent amount of growing pains in his first year, but if Flynn is playing under Philbin, it should be a relatively smooth transition. Since he's come into the league Flynn has been learning the same system with Philbin as his offensive coordinator. As you said, give him another receiver and a running game he can rely on, and I think it's a really good signing for Miami.

I think because of Kolb and Cassel being disappointments, people are quick to write off Flynn as more of the same, but I honestly don't see that.

jackalope
03-07-2012, 06:50 PM
Look, if Green Bay really thought that Flynn had franchise QB ability, they would have franchised him and got a bundle in return. The fact that they are just letting him walk suggests pretty strongly that they didn't think he had that type of ability and that nobody was going to pay a king's ransom for an average starter. Think Cassel, OK but not great.

What Green Bay thinks of Flynn really isn't relevant in trading him. What's important is the market for Flynn. Had Peyton been released and signed a week or two ago, this situation might have played out very differently. Because every team wants to make a move for Peyton, teams likely didn't want to trade for Flynn and miss out on that opportunity. Without much confidence in getting a deal done, Thompson wasn't going to make such a big financial risk.

Bengalsrocket
03-07-2012, 06:57 PM
I think because of Kolb and Cassel being disappointments, people are quick to write off Flynn as more of the same, but I honestly don't see that.

This can't be stated enough. Flynn's situation is similar to Cassel, Kolb and even Schaub. But his play style isn't necessarily similar. I don't know how good Flynn is going to be, but if I was a team I wouldn't be hesitant just because of Cassel or Kolb.

niel89
03-07-2012, 06:58 PM
Flynn is really lucky if he goes to Miami. The option to go to a new team but with a former coach and to keep the same offensive system that he has been in for 4 years is great. No chance he goes anywhere else, unless Manning signs with Miami.

Iamcanadian
03-08-2012, 01:01 PM
I don't think they have the room to franchise him or it would have put too much stain on the team for free agency. I don't think that not tagging him says that they think he is just an average player. Yes he probably is overrated off very little playing time, but he still is largely unknown. They just don't have the cap space to risk using $14.4 million on their back up QB. It limits their free agency flexibility.

I saw a post on this site which pointed out that GB hasn't signed a FA in 3 years, I'm not sure if it is true or not but if true, FA flexibility was hardly an issue.

You can bet that if Flynn was a truly great prospect, people like Philbin would be almost a guarantee to pay any price to acquire him and he would have been franchised. It speak volumes to me that he was just released.

dan77733
03-08-2012, 01:58 PM
I saw a post on this site which pointed out that GB hasn't signed a FA in 3 years, I'm not sure if it is true or not but if true, FA flexibility was hardly an issue.

You can bet that if Flynn was a truly great prospect, people like Philbin would be almost a guarantee to pay any price to acquire him and he would have been franchised. It speak volumes to me that he was just released.

Flynn wasnt released. He's a scheduled UFA. Franchising Flynn was too risky for GB so they'll let him leave as an UFA in a week and get a compensation pick for him in 2013. Franchising Flynn could have been a disaster because once he were to sign the tender, the amount becomes guaranteed and what happens if another team works out a trade with GB for him but he refuses to sign an extension? Too risky and being franchised, Flynn would have had the chance to make probably $30m guaranteed between this year and next year if he played the situation correctly but since he's not franchised, it doesnt matter. I'm saying he goes the Browns or Seahawks.

jackalope
03-08-2012, 02:20 PM
I saw a post on this site which pointed out that GB hasn't signed a FA in 3 years, I'm not sure if it is true or not but if true, FA flexibility was hardly an issue.

You can bet that if Flynn was a truly great prospect, people like Philbin would be almost a guarantee to pay any price to acquire him and he would have been franchised. It speak volumes to me that he was just released.

Philbin is the head coach, not the GM. While he should have a great deal of influence on bringing Flynn to Miami, he's not going to be able to sell the GM on giving up too much for him. Even if Philbin did have that authority, it wouldn't mean he's going to pay any price for Flynn. Say, hypothetically, that Philbin has GM authority and believes Flynn is worth several first round picks, but the rest of the league only values Flynn at a 5th round pick. Philbin's high opinion of Flynn doesn't matter, because Green Bay has no leverage and has to trade Flynn or let him walk. Philbin isn't going to offer anything more than a 4th round pick in this situation, so Green Bay would let him walk.

It also appears that Stephen Ross and Jeff Ireland are really excited about the idea of bringing Peyton to Miami. Even if it does seem unlikely that they're able to land Peyton, they didn't want to miss out on a huge opportunity by trading for Flynn before they could go after Manning.

Mufasa
03-08-2012, 02:34 PM
^ Right, I think that Peyton Manning might have single handedly prevented the Packers from trading Flynn. Every team that's interested in getting a QB in free agency is going hard after Manning, and they all want to believe they have a chance to get him. They weren't going to pass on the opportunity to get Manning in free agency by trading for Flynn. Had Manning's fate been decided first I think Flynn probably would have been easily tradeable.

descendency
03-08-2012, 05:51 PM
^ Right, I think that Peyton Manning might have single handedly prevented the Packers from trading Flynn. Every team that's interested in getting a QB in free agency is going hard after Manning, and they all want to believe they have a chance to get him. They weren't going to pass on the opportunity to get Manning in free agency by trading for Flynn. Had Manning's fate been decided first I think Flynn probably would have been easily tradeable.

that's the worst cockblock ever.

Iamcanadian
03-09-2012, 11:33 AM
Philbin is the head coach, not the GM. While he should have a great deal of influence on bringing Flynn to Miami, he's not going to be able to sell the GM on giving up too much for him. Even if Philbin did have that authority, it wouldn't mean he's going to pay any price for Flynn. Say, hypothetically, that Philbin has GM authority and believes Flynn is worth several first round picks, but the rest of the league only values Flynn at a 5th round pick. Philbin's high opinion of Flynn doesn't matter, because Green Bay has no leverage and has to trade Flynn or let him walk. Philbin isn't going to offer anything more than a 4th round pick in this situation, so Green Bay would let him walk.

It also appears that Stephen Ross and Jeff Ireland are really excited about the idea of bringing Peyton to Miami. Even if it does seem unlikely that they're able to land Peyton, they didn't want to miss out on a huge opportunity by trading for Flynn before they could go after Manning.

Sorry, but if Philbin walks into the GM's office in Miami and says I know that Flynn will be a true franchise QB and I want him as my starter, it is going to be pretty hard for the GM to say no.

Pro football isn't a closed door league, there are ex GB coaches all around the league who can call their buddies in GB and ask for an appraisal of Flynn. I just don't think Flynn has that type of potential and everybody including GB knows it. Yes, he will be a Cassel's like starter, OK but not great, and that is why he wasn't franchised and why Manning, RG111 and Luck are of more interest around the league.

Flynn will likely only appeal to the Manning and RG111 losers. Hence he wasn't worth franchising.

TimmG6376
03-09-2012, 11:58 AM
There were several factors involved:

1) Huge financial risk for a backup QB.
2) Green Bay relies on the CBA and revenue sharing to compete with bigger market teams. They aren't going to be the ones pushing the envelope with the franchise tag rules.
3) Supply and demand. His value tanked once Manning became available. In the end they decided the risk/reward wasn't worth it and took the likely 3rd round compensatory pick they'll get next year.

WCH
03-09-2012, 12:04 PM
When Green Bay drafted Flynn, he had good pocket awareness and "moxie," but average-at-best accuracy and arm strength. They developed him for four years, and now he's has good pocket awareness and "moxie," with slightly-above-average-at-best accuracy and arm strength.

AR's assessment of Flynn as a "Top-15" Quarterback was probably slightly generous.

SuperPacker
03-09-2012, 12:09 PM
What risk is there?