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View Full Version : Past Luck/RG3 - The Other QBs


DBNYDP
01-01-2012, 06:59 PM
I've watched a great deal of Luck and a great deal of Griffin and I love both of them. They are both guys I think are franchise QBs, but I'll be honest when I say I really don't know much about the other QBs in this draft. What are your guys thoughts about the other QBs in the draft and where they'll go? Also if a team in around pick 20-25 wants to take a QB (e.g Broncos) what would be good "value" there?

descendency
01-01-2012, 07:20 PM
I think both Jones and Tannehill go in the first round as well, even if I think both have inflated value.

4U2NV
01-01-2012, 08:10 PM
Luck is the only can't miss prospect. RG3 is the only other franchise QB prospect but he does have some flaws and a chance to be a bust. The other QBs will be taken highly but I don't believe in any of them, especially Landy Jones. Tannehill has very high upside but I think it's going to take him a couple of years before he's even close to reaching it. There's a very significant drop off in talent after Luck and RG3 come off the board. Sucks for QB needy teams.

deepthoughtlife
01-02-2012, 02:56 AM
While I have only preliminarily scouted most of the quarterbacks, This seems like a very weak class at QB to me. Landry Jones is highly overrated. Foles is not good. I haven't finished preliminary scouting on Tannehill. Lindley is not accurate. Weeden is too old, but otherwise pretty good. Russel Wilson is just ok. Kellen Moore is the definition of a system QB; it is very easy to play QB for Boise; he is a far worse QB than Colt Brennan (Hawaii, and now nowhere) was, for instance. Griffin is not that great either (I will not elaborate since this is supposed to be about the other QBs).

Several QBs will be drafted in the first few rounds, but most of them will not have the accompanying grade that usually goes along with it; there is a very low likelihood that there will be a good QB to choose at 20 - 25, by which point they may be onto the fourth QB (since everyone 'knows' they won't be able to pick up one later in the draft,) (maybe the Broncos would need to bring in a free agent instead).

holt_bruce81
01-02-2012, 03:08 AM
After the top two I think I would have....

3. Tannehill
4. Wilson
5. Jones

Rounding out the top 5. I might end up putting Weeden a head of Jones later on. I'm just not a fan of Landry Jones at all.

FUNBUNCHER
01-02-2012, 03:41 AM
If Russell Wilson was tall.....@!

SenorGato
01-02-2012, 03:46 AM
Give me Nick Foles anytime in the very late third or later.

descendency
01-02-2012, 08:07 AM
If Russell Wilson was tall.....@!

If Russel Wilson was tall, he'd be Derek Anderson.

FUNBUNCHER
01-02-2012, 08:54 AM
If Russel Wilson was tall, he'd be Derek Anderson.

I like Wilson a lot and think he will make an NFL roster. If there are holes in his game, they're almost insignificant IMO

Wilson is big time QB in a little body.
If Russell Wilson were 6'2 or taller, he'd be taken in the top half of the first round and ahead of Tannehill.

onejayhawk
01-02-2012, 10:34 AM
After the top two I think I would have....

3. Tannehill
4. Wilson
5. Jones

Rounding out the top 5. I might end up putting Weeden a head of Jones later on. I'm just not a fan of Landry Jones at all.

If Russel Wilson was tall, he'd be Derek Anderson.

Ouch. Accurate too.

Weeden in the 2nd wouold work for me too.

J

onejayhawk
01-02-2012, 10:41 AM
I like Wilson a lot and think he will make an NFL roster. If there are holes in his game, they're almost insignificant IMO

Wilson is big time QB in a little body.
If Russell Wilson were 6'2 or taller, he'd be taken in the top half of the first round and ahead of Tannehill.

If Wilson were 4 inches taller, to make him even with RG III, we would be talking about his dreadful footwork and the throw to your first option system he plays in. Dont kid yourself, this is not Doug Flutie II.

And that is if he plays in the NFL at all. I would love to play OF in Coors.

J

FUNBUNCHER
01-02-2012, 11:26 AM
Fine, but people really seem to forget how dreadful Derek Anderson was at Oregon State.
Physically talented, but could barely connect on half his passes thrown in college.

bucfan12
01-02-2012, 11:51 AM
Honeslt,y, all of you on the nuts of RGIII will realize he won't make it in the NFL. I watched the bowl game and he is a terrific athlete and COLLEGE FOOTBALL PLAYER/QB. But I just don't see his game translating to the NFL.

I think the hype is really high on this guy right now, but I see Akili Smith.

princefielder28
01-02-2012, 11:59 AM
If Tyler Wilson declares then I have him ahead of Robert Griffin...here's how I have the QBs ranked (minus Wilson)

1. Andrew Luck : STANFORD*
2. Robert Griffin III : BAYLOR*
3. Kirk Cousins : MICHIGAN STATE
4. Ryan Tannehill : TEXAS A&M
5. Landry Jones : OKLAHOMA*
6. Brandon Weeden : OKLAHOMA STATE
7. Ryan Lindley : SAN DIEGO STATE
8. Dominique Davis : EAST CAROLINA
9. Nick Foles : ARIZONA
10. Russell Wilson : WISCONSIN
11. Kellen Moore : BOISE STATE
12. Chandler Harnish : NORTHERN ILLINOIS

Flyboy
01-02-2012, 12:02 PM
I'm feeling Ryan Tannehill after RGIII / Luck... never been a big fan of Jones at all.

SolidGold
01-02-2012, 12:15 PM
If Tyler Wilson declares then I have him ahead of Robert Griffin...here's how I have the QBs ranked (minus Wilson)

1. Andrew Luck : STANFORD*
2. Robert Griffin III : BAYLOR*
3. Kirk Cousins : MICHIGAN STATE
4. Ryan Tannehill : TEXAS A&M
5. Landry Jones : OKLAHOMA*
6. Brandon Weeden : OKLAHOMA STATE
7. Ryan Lindley : SAN DIEGO STATE
8. Dominique Davis : EAST CAROLINA
9. Nick Foles : ARIZONA
10. Russell Wilson : WISCONSIN
11. Kellen Moore : BOISE STATE
12. Chandler Harnish : NORTHERN ILLINOIS

I agree with this list for the most part but I would have Harnish higher. Dominique Davis is garbage and won't be drafted. The Griffin hype is unbelievable - even Peter King has caught on/Dungy has said he would pick him over Luck...give me a break. Not a Griffin fan here...shoot me.

I think Wilson will stay and be a top 10 pick next year. Tannehill played well in his bowl game and should rise during the senior bowl/combine. With Luck and Griffin off the board I would not be surprised to see the Redskins scoop up Tannehill at number 6.

Landry Jones should declare, Blake Bell played the role Tebow did back when Leak was the QB and I think Stoops is ready to hand the reins to him. Jones has all the tools to work with and can be molded into a solid QB. I think Jones realizes the writing is on the wall with Blake Bell and his stock will take a hit next year if he stays. I would take Jones in the late first/early second.

Matt Flynn and Brian Hoyer are both going to have an impact on the QBs drafted. Flynn could end up in DC letting the Redskins use their pick on another position (O-Line, WR are probably their biggest needs so Blackmon/DeCastro/Reiff could all be the pick here as well. Hoyer won't be brought in as an undisputed starter but he will get a pretty good deal if he signs elsewhere with a chance to win the position.

princefielder28
01-02-2012, 12:18 PM
I like Harnish but he doesn't have the arm to do anything in the NFL...he'll end up very similar to Dan LeFevour...I'll say he's definitely worth a 6th round pick though

stl705
01-02-2012, 01:21 PM
Honestly, I thought this was going to be the best QB draft class in decades; but that was before Barkley decided to go back. With Barkley gunning for the Nat'l Champ as well as the Heisman, I see a big dropoff and a pretty weak QB class in general; especially outside the top 2. (Yes, I do have that much stock in Luck/Barkely, with RG3 being damn good as well).

I'm just not a fan of Landry Jones. I don't like his accuracy, or his decision making. Granted, there are a lot of people who have watched far, far more game-tape than I have of him, but my gut feeling says bust.

My 3-5 would go this:

Tyler Wilson (Assuming he goes pro). I think the kid is pretty raw and is probably the one QB who needs to sit a few a years. I think he should stay in school another year to develop his accuracy and reads (like most college qbs); although I will never rip on anyone who turns down millions of dollars for a job.

Nick Foles - Good enough arm strength, but I would have liked to see more out of him in college though; but then again I said the same thing about Locker. Haven't watched a whole lot of this kid though so I'm not going to delve into his stock too much. (still have him above the rest though)

Ryan Tannehill - I'm not sold on Tannehill and don't have him rated too much higher than the next two guys. Pretty good measurables and his stock will probably be higher than his actual ratings. He gets the number 5 spot basically by default.

Chandler Harnish- Yes, I know he's a mid-round pick most likely, and I really haven't watched a whole lot of tape on him, but I like the kid's composure and leadership. Good mobility in the pocket, and with a good NFL coach, I like his potential to be a spot-starter in the league.

Next, I go Kellen Moore. Surprise, surprise; I know I'll get ripped for this pick, but I see him as the 4th or 5th best QB in the class over Tannehill. I know he has a subpar arm and slower than average delivery, but I'm willing to give the kid a chance as long as he can show he can improve his arm strength more than Tyler Palko. If he can't improve his delivery and arm strength, then fair game and most of you are right about him not being able to be an NFL qb. I just think leadership and composure is next to NONE of these "2nd group QBs".

Next batch is here, really in no particular order, although I do beleive this next group has some potential: Weeden, L.Jones, R. Wilson, Cousins.

I haven't watched Lindley or Dom Davis so I don't even have them on my radar (still months ahead of draft haha, i've got time).


What I personally use as how to rank QBs are these qualities:

1.) Composure under duress (when behind in the game, and with pressure in face).
2.) Leadership ability
3.) Arm - Strength, Accuracy, and speed of delivery (all tied)

That's how I rank QBs - only 5 different rankings. Most all of the top QBs have great arm strength and decent accuracy. What I believe separates NFL QBs from college QBs (besides obvious arm strength and accuracy) is their will to get better and their composure under duress. When you look at most of the busts in the NFL, they all have great arm strength and some accuracy, but most of them have a bad head on their shoulders. But i'm not crucifying anyone because even the biggest busts have lived a hell of a life without NFL success.

This is why I have Kellen Moore ranked ahead of Landry Jones. Yes, it is a bit hard because Moore has been playing with a dominant team (see Leinart, Matt); and hasn't faced a lot of duress, but I love his leadership ability. I haven't seen Landry Jones be able to stand in the pocket and drill a pass in a perfect window when he gets smoked from a hit enough times.

Take my rankings for what it is worth, as I haven't watched a whole lot of college football this year, but I usually have a pretty good gut feeling on QBs.

Last year my rankings were: Dalton, Newton, Locker, and Mallet for my top 4 (didn't really like too many others). I thought and still think Gabbert was a bust. Didn't see Ponder being as good as he has looked so far though, so i'm looking wrong on him so far. Noone can be perfect though, as one of my favorite QB prospects was Byron Leftwich haha (thought he was going to be the Big Ben type QB).

onejayhawk
01-02-2012, 01:51 PM
It is the best QB draft in decades.

We have one player who is a Peyton Manning type prospect. We have another that compares with any of the #1 picks of the last decade. The 3rd, 4th and 5th players rate with everyone but the top pick in the last 5 drafts. Foles is 5th on my list, but I would rate him above what Gabbert brought last year.

Teams like Seattle and Kansas City, who will flip for the #11 pick, have the chance to draft a QB for the next decade. When the first 50 picks are done i expect the following to off the board: Luck, RG III, Tannehill, Jones, Foles, and Weeden. In addition at least one of BJ Coleman, Cousins and Lindley. That is 7-8 of the top 50 picks. Guys like Keenum and Moore could show enough physical tools at the Combine to vault into that level. Having Russell Wilson grade out 2nd day would not blow my mind.

J

Miaoww
01-02-2012, 02:08 PM
I'm so glad my team isn't drafting a QB this year. Outside of the top 2 there's literally nobody I would give the time of day to.

onejayhawk
01-02-2012, 02:22 PM
I'm so glad my team isn't drafting a QB this year. Outside of the top 2 there's literally nobody I would give the time of day to.

We have had draft classes where there was no one who would rate in the top 3 of this class. Aaron Rodgers came from one of them.

J

SchizophrenicBatman
01-02-2012, 02:31 PM
If Wilson were 4 inches taller, to make him even with RG III, we would be talking about his dreadful footwork and the throw to your first option system he plays in. Dont kid yourself, this is not Doug Flutie II.

And that is if he plays in the NFL at all. I would love to play OF in Coors.

J

Wilson is an awful baseball player so there's no need to worry about that

FUNBUNCHER
01-02-2012, 02:46 PM
Honeslt,y, all of you on the nuts of RGIII will realize he won't make it in the NFL. I watched the bowl game and he is a terrific athlete and COLLEGE FOOTBALL PLAYER/QB. But I just don't see his game translating to the NFL.

I think the hype is really high on this guy right now, but I see Akili Smith.


Texas and Oklahoma were bigger games and better teams than U Dub.

Playing Cover 2 against Baylor was a sound game plan because it took away the deep ball and didn't allow Grif to hang back in the pocket forever waiting for Wright to break open.
But RGIII still ate Washington up underneath an on screens and intermediate throws.
The game plan was to win, and since the Huskies have no run defense, Ganaway castrated them.

It's like people saying what's the big deal about Newton after the NC game last year against Oregon, missing the fact of how dominant he was against Alabama on the road.

The hype surrounding RGIII is only going to increase leading up to the combine and private workouts. It's not going to decline IMO.

Having only watched Griffin's bowl performance simply isn't a large enough sample size to grade his ability.

You should know that.

stl705
01-02-2012, 04:00 PM
Oops I completely forgot about Case Keenum in my post. I'd rank Keenum right with Tannehill vying for number 4 QB. I know he passes 60-70 times a game, but I do think he can make all the throws. Throw him above Harnish and Moore for my rankings, tied with Tannehill.

Also, to the poster who said this IS the best QB class of the decade... Let's wait and see. I don't see the second group of QBs being nearly as good as some are projecting, and let's not forget about last years class which has looked outstanding. You could have 1 hall of famer in Newton, and a few guys with the chance at making a few probowls in Dalton, Locker, and Ponder. Still a lot of playing left obviously, and they ALL need to continue to get better, even Newton.

If Barkley stays in this class I would definitely agree with you, but I only see 3 or 4 starting QBs in this draft class (assuming Arkansas Wilson declares).

Also, let's hold our horses on Andrew Luck. Yes, he is a great prospect who looks like a can't miss; but let's all be honest... There is NO SUCH THING as a Can't Miss prospect. Even Manning had plenty of detractors who thought the biggest bust of all time was a better prospect than him *cough, ryan leaf, cough*.

I've been a bit of a Barkely homer (even though I absolutely DESPISE USC), and I think he will turn into just as good a QB as Luck. People still have to remember that every other year has plenty of great QB prospects... (Hell remember the draft class with Grossman and Chris Simms as near 1st rounders- yes, simms did last til the 3rd round, but that year there were 5 QBs worthy of a 1st or high 2nd round selection.


As for the questions and comparisons about Griffin to Akili Smith...
Griffin has better accuracy right now than Akili EVER did. I was a bit leery on Griffin as well, but the dude was pinpointing the ball on multiple throws in the bowl game. Plus Akili Smith may have had some speed and scrambling ability; but he never showed the type of strength that Griffin showed on a few plays. That TD run was amazing and worthy of a prime Culpepper/young McNabb/ Cam Newton... Although C-Pepp doesn't have Griffins speed, neither did McNabb, and McNabb also didn't have Griffins power getting out of tackles.