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MaxV
01-02-2012, 04:20 PM
Talk about Colts' Off-Season here.

RagingColt
01-02-2012, 04:47 PM
Regardless who is brought in for GM, I think the entire coaching staff needs to go. Think Spags would be a good choice for D-Cord and bring in an attaching 4-3 defense. As more teams switch to 3-4 defenses I would think the talent level for 4-3 would increase. I don't think the switch over would take too long. For the offense, I think we need a more balanced attack even if Manning returns.

Who are prime candidates for GM and for a new head coach?

MaxV
01-02-2012, 05:02 PM
We absolutely have to stay at 4-3. Switch to 3-4 would take multiple years.

falloutboy14
01-02-2012, 05:06 PM
I think Drake Nevis really locks us into the 4-3. Maybe won't be a pro-bowler, but should be a darn good 3-tech. If he weren't on the team, I could tolerate a switch. Since most of our defensive talent is either old, or I think could make that switch. Also, a defensive scheme switch assumes Peyton is no longer a Colt.

For coaches, Jeff Fischer & Mike Zimmer are my prime targets.

UKfan
01-02-2012, 06:31 PM
I'd very much like Spags to come in as our DC, that would be great. Other than that I am undecided, Fisher I am undecided on.

Seamus2602
01-02-2012, 06:36 PM
I think the new General Manager will help determine who the Head Coach is. The problem is that Irsay has said that it could take weeks to get a new GM in place and by that stage many of the top available Head Coaches may already have new jobs. Personally I would like to see one of 4 guys get the GM job:

Floyd Reese - New England Patriots Senior Football Advisor
John Dorsey - Green Bay Packers Director of College Scouting
Ron Hughes - Pittsburgh Steelers College Scouting Coordinator
Pat Moriarty - Baltimore Ravens Vice President of Football Administration

4 guys in proven organisations. I think they could struggle to get a top quality GM off another team (though the high draft pick should entice a few people) and so getting one of the top number 2s from a good organisation would be very good. Floyd Reese would be my preference. He has a proven track record at the Titans (he built the Titans team that won the AFC Championship in 1999) and has been involved in the Patriots (big rivals but still one of the best run organisations in the league) for many years. I think he'd be ideal.

Seamus2602
01-02-2012, 06:42 PM
Spags as D-Coordinator would be good but I could see them sticking firmly with the Tampa 2 and looking more in the direction of Raheem Morris.

killxswitch
01-03-2012, 12:59 AM
I really, really hope we move on from the Tampa 2. Here are a few thoughts on the near-future.

Draft/Free Agency - Obviously Luck will be the pick. If we'd kept Polian that would be a lock but even with Irsay I think it is. After that we have the following positions of need, in order:

DT - need a starting NT (Alameda Ta'amu!) and rotational depth. Nevis is our UT of the future. I think we need to trade up for one of the top DTs if it looks like a run on them is happening in the mid/late 1st. Also yet again I want to bring up Aubrayo Franklin. He only signed a 1-year deal with the Saints.

SS - Mark Barron or TJ McDonald would be nice additions but I also wouldn't mind a FA guy like LaRon Landry. This defense is just better when the SS is good. I think Bullitt is gone, too injury-prone and not that great anyway.

CB - Man we are lacking talent here. Powers gets hurt all the time and there is NOBODY else worth starting other than him. Might need to hit FA for this spot.

WR - Sad to say but I think Wayne is probably gone. Garcon is a keeper though, I don't think people really appreciate how much better he was this year, especially considering how bad the QB play was. If Manning had been throwing his numbers would've been top 10ish IMO. I would think if they make Garcon the #1 that they'd look for a possession-type receiver with a big body and good hands. Maybe a Marques Colston? I'm honestly not up on the non-top 3 WRs in the draft. I like Collie but he is a slot guy only IMO.

OL - This is pretty up-in-the-air IMO. Castonzo is a starter at an OT position, probably LT. Ijalana will be given every chance to start somewhere. Reitz does alright at LG. Saturday is old and not great but there is no one to replace him. We have no RG unless Ijalana is it, in which case we have no RT. I'd like a vet to help the young guys but I know cap space will be an issue. Ben Grubbs would be such a fantastic signing if we could get him. Jared Gaither is also a FA. Probably not going to dip into FA here. I hope Brackett is gone, like what he has done but I don't see where he fits on this team anymore and he is old and not that fast.

TE - This year proved a lot of things. One of those things IMO is that Clark is a product of Manning. For every circus catch he drops an easy ball. He is due something like $5M next year. I'd be ok with releasing/trading him to save cap space (if that is possible, which I think it is) and either keeping Tamme or getting one of the new basketball-type TEs that get so many endzone and 1st down catches in today's NFL. Those guys are available in later draft rounds and in free agency, Manning can make them into weapons. Yes, I am assuming Manning returns to form for at least 2 years.

LB - I think this unit could see change depending on the new defensive scheme. Will we see bigger thumper-type LBs like the Bengals or Giants have? It seems like Angerer is the MLB of the future, but IMO the OLB spots are wide open.

DE - I like Freeney and Anderson as starters next year, sad to say but I think Mathis is gone. Hughes might develop under some new coaching but if not we need some guys to develop to eventually replace Freeney. Maybe Cam Johnson out of Virginia?

The only positions I am ok with not addressing are QB (Luck is a lock), RB (Brown improved and Carter will be a good complement), kicker, and punter. I am skipping FB because I haven't cared about them in so long I don't even know where to begin.

GM of the future

My first choice is Reggie McKenzie. I think I've said this before here. He appears to be a big part of the talent acquisition process there and the depth he helped create played a big part in the SB win. Seems like a good football guy and he would potentially bring a new defensive-minded HC in Winston Moss with him.

I also like Eric DeCosta. Baltimore's talent staff is undeniably good at what they do. They find good defensive players and know how to replace departing talent.

I haven't looked too far past these two. Doesn't seem worth the time to really dig into it. I just hope we find a new, fresh voice and somebody with a contemporary vision for this team. Someone that won't just accept that the defense will always be bad, that special teams don't matter, that won't overpay his own guys with 2nd contracts or insist on keeping underperforming players for silly reasons.

I will say I hope Irsay doesn't bring in Tony Dungy to be the GM. I think that would be a big mistake. And I like Dungy a lot. As a person and as a coach. But not as a GM. There's no real evidence that he'd be any good at it. IMO his best quality is his ability to motivate players, which would not be utilized much as a GM. This would be a move to again try to hang onto the past which is what got this team into trouble in the first place.

HC Search

Mike Zimmer is my first choice. Consistently good 4-3 defenses, good motivator, and I was impressed with his story when he was in the news a few years ago with his wife dying. Maybe that sounds weird but that is some of the worst adversity anyone will ever go through and he handled it better than most would have.

Jeff Fisher would be fine. He is a good gameday coach and it would make two games per year vs. TN that much more exciting. I think he was largely hamstrung in TN by a bad owner. He didn't want VY or CJ2K. He got Haynesworth to play hard.

Chuck Pagano is another defensive guy that has had consistent success in Balt. Seems like a good pairing with Eric DeCosta. I don't know a ton about him so I am going by reputation and results. Which is a hell of a lot better than going by the fact that you're Tony Dungy's buddy.

Rob Ryan is someone that might be interesting but his loudmouth attitude will rub people here the wrong way. So I don't see it happening. He is a good defensive mind though. I wouldn't mind if it happened. I just doubt it.

I think most or all the position coaches will be replaced. Christiansen has to go. Teerlinck too. I might be ok with Metzellars staying. And maybe the new RB coach. And maybe Reich at WR coach, because Garcon and Wayne have done pretty well with such bad QBs throwing the ball. But mostly I think these guys will be replaced.

Offensive and Defensive Schemes

If Manning is back, the offense probably won't change much. Manning will continue to call plays based on his presnap reads and no HC or OC will try to change that much. If Manning is released/retires, I'd hope for a QB guru at OC that can help Luck develop quickly. I just hope we have more balance and keep using a FB. Brown is a different runner with a FB in front of him.

On defense, we have to stay with the 4-3. We just don't have the pieces in place to switch to a 3-4. We don't have a NT at all. We don't have good enough 5-tech types (Rico Mathews might work and maybe Moala if he'd stop sucking). Nevis would be wasted, Freeney is awfully old to move to OLB, we don't have the right ILBs, etc. The only guy to benefit from such a switch might be Hughes. We will stick with a 4-3. I just hope it is more in the mold of an attacking 4-3 like the Bengals or Giants or Eagles run. Let Angerer play closer to the LOS. Let the CBs play closer to the receiver. Get more creative with pre-snap movement and blitzes. Let's get some guys in the middle that are big AND fast! They exist! I would love to bring in Spagnuolo but would he consider coming here to be "just a DC" after being a HC?

I think that it for my brain dump. Today was like Christmas. I think I probably still have a lot to say but it's hard to process everything right now.

#1 overall pick and the Polians getting fired, it's hard to imagine a better outcome for this season. If Caldwell and the rest of these horrible coaches get replaced and Manning returns to form, it'll make this entire terrible season almost worth it. The offseason changes will be difficult but this all really needed to happen. My hat is off to Jim Irsay for having the brains AND the balls to make the tough calls.

Seamus2602
01-03-2012, 08:57 AM
I really, really hope we move on from the Tampa 2. Here are a few thoughts on the near-future.



It could be. Probably the better pieces (who arenít free agents) of the Colts Defence could play most of the main forms of the 4-3 Defence.

The current options are:

Tampa 2: They hire someone like Morris to coach the defence or another Dungy apostle.
1 Gap 4-3: Currently used in the places like Cincinnati so would be installed in Indianapolis if they hired someone like Mike Zimmer.
2 Gap 4-3: Has been used to great effect in Jacksonville and was used by the great Baltimore Defence that won the Superbowl. Not that popular in the NFL and not that many coaches use it so it would could be difficult to find a coach who is able to do it for Indy. Additionally it is probably the form of the 4-3 that the Colts players are least suited to play.
Johnson 4-3: Used in New Orleans, last year in St Louis, Philadelphia and would be the Colts Defence if they hired Steve Spagnuolo as a D-Coordinator.

Dwight Freeney: In the Tampa 2 Freeney is expected to rush the Quarterback on every play, even probable run situations to avoid play action. A switch to the 1-Gap 4-3 gives him relatively similar duties in the passing game but asks him to maintain greater gap responsibility in the run game. The 1-Gap uses a more traditional Mike and SS so there isnít as much of a threat of play action so there isnít the need for him to pass rush on every play. In the 2-Gap wouldnít be in Freeneyís strengths as it asks him to cover both the C Gap (to the outside of the Tackle) and the B Gap (to the inside of the Tackle) and so would negate a lot of his speed. His sheer strength would still allow him to play it effectively but it wouldnít be his best option. The Johnson 4-3 would have Freeney playing in a very similar way to the 1-Gap so I am confident he could do it.

Drake Nevis: Nevis actually hasnít played as a 3-Tech Under Tackle position for the Colts. Nevis has actually lined up the majority of the time at the 1-Tech Nose Tackle position. The job of the 1-Tech is to control both the Guard and the Center while penetrating the A-Gap in both the passing and the run game, something that Nevis has done to great effect. The Colts donít have the dominant 3-Tech that they need and Nevis isnít it either. Again, similar to Freeney, the 1-Tech in both the 1-Gap and the Johnson 4-3 have similar responsibilities to the 1-Tech in the Tampa 2. So Nevis wouldnít struggle to transfer between the two. In the 2-Gap there is no 1 or 3-Techs. The Defensive Tackles both line up directly on top of the Guard so are in fact 2-Techs and both Defensive Tackles have the same responsibilities. Between the two of them they have to control their individual A and B Gaps, while controlling their individual Guard. Additionally they have to take out the Center. I donít think the role fits Nevis that much.

Pat Angerer: Ironically of the main roles of a Middle Linebacker in the 4-3 the one that least suits Pat Angerer is the Tampa 2, where he is expected to cover a deep 3rd of the pitch. He is decent to short to medium coverage but doesnít have the speed needed to be a force in coverage in the Tampa 2. Personally I feel that Angerer would be at best in the 1-Gap 4-3. The 2-Gap asks him to be two much of a thumper and he could be swallowed up by one of the linemen if the DTs donít get a good hand on them. Similarly the Johnson 4-3 asks the Middle Linebacker to play too close to the Line of Scrimmage and asks him to blitz too often. Angerer isnít a great blitzer and doesnít have either the size or the technique to do anything if a linemen getís his hands on him. The 1-Gap gives him good gap responsibility (and should be free of then linemen if the Nose Tackle does his job properly), gets him to cover the short middle and play more of a read and react which is where Angerer is at his best.

Jerraud Powers: The team got the Tampa 2 completely wrong last year and players like Powers. The Tampa 2 requires two main things from their Cornerbacks. It needs them to be press the play at the start and cover the short option. The problem is that in the last 4 years Colts starting Cornerbacks have average less than 11 games a season. It calls on them to be fast, agile and good playmakers. But it also calls on them to be big, tough and strong. With the exceptions of some of the elite and ranging on elite Cornerbacks those two options are contradictory. The Truth is that I would consider Powers to be at his best in a man coverage scheme playing as a Nickleback. If he is as a starter he canít play on the line and so the Tampa 2 is out long term for Powers. I also think he could struggle in Jim Johnsonís 4-3 for the same reasons, he is small, he is undersized and he will be torn apart like a wet paper bag if he blitzed. Hell a Running Back staying in to block would destroy him if he blitzed. He would succeed, in my opinion, in both the 1-Gap and 2-Gap. The 2-Gap asks corners to do just about everything, a jack of all trades. Some man coverage, some zone coverage, sometimes deep coverage, intermediate, and short. The 1-Gap asks for a more traditional Cornerback, not asking him to press but still expecting him to stick with his man in man coverage or to cover the intermediate zone in zone coverage. I think Powers would be ideally suited to that, especially if moved to the slot.

Antoine Bethea: Truth be told I think that Antoine Bethea would be both very good but slightly wasted in the 1 and 2-Gap 4-3s as they ask for a very traditional Free Safety and ask him to mostly just play the deep third of the field. Bethea is probably better in run support than he is as a pass defender. In all reality I would imagine Bethea would be better in both the 1 and 2-Gap as a Strong Safety than he would be as a Free Safety and that is something the Colts should look at if they can find a Safety who can play the deep third but not one who can cover well but also be a force in run support. Bethea is at his best in the Tampa 2 where he is almost prototypical of a Tampa 2 Free Safety but I could also see him succeeding in the Johnson 4-3 where he is asked to be something quite similar, although with increased blitzing responsibilities.

Other Positions

3-Technique: Similar to the other two defensive line positions already discussed the responsibilities of the 3-Tech are the same in the Tampa 2, the 1-Gap and the Johnson 4-3. This would also be the position that the team are at their best for the 2-Gap as I feel Fili Moala would be at his best as a 2-Gap 2-Tech. At the same time if the team were able to get a dominant 3-Tech, who could penetrate on every play then a rotation of Moala and Nevis at the 1-Tech would give the Colts as good a defensive tackle grouping as they have had in years.

Strongside Defensive End: This position is the biggest variable of all the defensive line positions (and possibly all the defensive positions). Two of the 4-3s are perfectly suited to Robert Mathis should they happen to resign him, being both the Tampa 2 and the 1-Gap 4-3, which ask him to basically do on the Openside of the line what Freeney does on the Blindside, albeit with greater gap responsibility in the run game. Mathisís ability to play the run and the pass effectively make him ideally suited to the 1-Gap and so if the team do get someone like Mike Zimmer as their Head Coach then resigning Mathis should be a major priority. The interesting element starts if they hire a 2-Gap coach or Spagnuolo as the 2-Gap and the Johnson 4-3 ask for different things from this position. The 2-Gap asks the Defensive Ends to do the same thing, cover both the C Gap (to the outside of the Tackle) and the B Gap (to the inside of the Tackle). It focuses more on the run game and strength and so would be best suited to an end like Jamaal Anderson or Raheem Brock than Robert Mathis. I would question significantly whether or not Mathis would have the strength to play the position in the 2-Gap. The Johnson 4-3 can be played in the way that Mathis currently plays the game (in that it calls on the end to cover the C Gap and create outside pressure) but it also calls on the end to control the Tight End in both the run game and the passing game. This system blitzes the SLB regularly and so a stronger defensive end who can take on both the Tackle and Tight End could leave the Linebacker unblocked as he rushes the Quarterback.

Weakside Linebacker: In all four of the systems the Weakside Linebacker plays an almost identical role (only he is expected to blitz on some occasions in the Johnson 4-3). He is expected to cover outside runs, as well as clean up the mistakes of other players in the run game. In the passing game he has to cover an intermediate zone in zone coverage or on the running back in man coverage. With the emphasis on read and react in the Tampa 2 of both the Middle Linebacker and Strong Safety the WLB has to be a top quality player for the system to achieve top quality but this isnít as necessary in other systems so if the team is sticking with the Tampa 2 then I wouldnít mind an upgrade over Kavell Conner.

Strongside Linebacker: The SLB is a pretty similar player in all four of the systems, in that he has to cover the outside run, the intermediate zone and cover the Tight End in man coverage. The major difference is the Johnson 4-3 where the SLB not only has to do those things but also blitz on a regularly. If they continue to play the 1-Gap, 2-Gap or Tampa 2 then resigning Wheeler is an option or drafting a late round guy. If they move to the Johnson 4-3 then a higher selection would be required.

Left Cornerback (and Right Cornerback if Powers is moved to the Nickle): As discussed when I was mentioning Powers I am of the opinion that if the team continue with the Tampa 2 then they need to bring in 2 new starting Cornerbacks of good size who can stand up to the rigours of bumping the man on every play. This also applies if they move to the Johnson 4-3. Moving to the 1 or 2-Gap 4-3 opens the door for a wide range of cornerback options as it asks for either a more traditional cornerback (and thus less specialised) or a jack of all trade cornerback (who can be found later on draft day).

Strong Safety (or Free Safety if Bethea is converted): This is also a very versatile position and depends a lot on what the scheme is. The Tampa 2 asks for a complete Safety, someone who can come up in the box and make plays in the run game but also cover a deep third of the pitch. Not only does it require this to be a good defence it requires it to be even a decent one, something the Colts have learned to their misfortune the last few years. Both the 1-Gap and the 2-Gap require the Safeties to play a traditional role, with the Free Safety to cover the deep third and the Strong Safety to cover the intermediate middle but also make some plays in the box. If the team converts to either the 1-Gap or 2-Gap they need to find a player who can do one of them and then ask Bethea to do the other. If they stick to the Tampa 2 then they need to find a top quality Strong Safety in a draft where there arenít many. If they switch to the Johnson 4-3 then they will need a Strong Safety in a similar mould to the Tampa 2 SS but it is less vital to the Johnson 4-3 than the Tampa 2 and so is less of a major need.

Conclusion

Largely I would be of the opinion that the team should hire someone like Mike Zimmer to be the Head Coach and move to the more traditional 4-3. Freeney, Mathis, Nevis, Angerer and Powers would all be ideally suited to play the 1-Gap while Bethea could play either Free Safety or Strong Safety in it. While there are other options I feel it is the one where the teamís best defenders would play their best football. If they do switch to the 1-Gap then these are the major needs:

3-Tech: The team need a good playmaking defensive tackle who can maintain good gap responsibility and keep linemen of the linebackers in the run game and also penetrate the pocket in the passing game. I would like a Day 2 pick at this position.

Strongside Defensive End: Resign Robert Mathis would be the best solution but could cost a lot. If they donít resign Mathis then they need to find a replacement, also in the second day of the Draft.

Strongside Linebacker: I think in the 1-Gap then Wheeler wouldnít be a bad option to resign. Failing that a Day 3 replacement wouldnít be needed.

Cornerback: The team needs a starter at Left Cornerback and needs to find one on Day 2. Additionally they could also look for another contributor later on in the draft if they are planning to move Powers to the slot.

Safety: As I said the team need to either find a defender who can play the deep third (and then move Bethea to the Strong Safety position) or find someone who can cover and play the run well. As the latter is more likely going to require a Day 2 pick I would go with the former where a good player can be found early on Day 3.

So if the team donít resign Mathis, and donít move Bethea to Strong Safety, they are going to need 4 picks on Day 2 to retool the defence properly. So either they need to trade major pieces or this is going to take more than one year. Resigning Mathis, and moving Bethea to SS allows them to take a 3-Tech in the 2nd/3rd Round and a Corner with the other Day 2 pick. A SLB, FS and additional CB could be got later on in the draft (or by resigning Wheeler and signing a veteran Free Agent).

killxswitch
01-03-2012, 09:40 AM
Nice post Seamus. I appreciate the comparison of different 4-3 defenses as they relate to our current personnel. Some thoughts:

Nevis - yes he lined up at the 1-tech spot, but he plays like an undertackle. He is not a NT and I hope the next coach agrees. He is a good interior pass rusher and I hope he is moved to that position next year. I was really scratching my head when Polian said he would play NT. Nevis' talent is wasted as a block eater. Having a real NT will help the LBs a lot. I would like to get a Corey Simon-type to play NT. The 05 DL was a thing of beauty. I see Nevis as more of a rich man's 05 Montae Reagor type. What do you see in Nevis' game that you think makes him a good NT prospect vs. a penetrating UT? Note that I am equating 1-tech with NT and 3-tech with UT so if I am off in that let me know.

Mathis - No, he is not effective against the pass and the run. Not at all. He does well for his size vs. the run but his ceiling is pretty low. He is too easy to drive out of the way and while his agility helps him to get around blockers he can't be consistent.

I like Bethea in coverage more than you do. I think you are forgetting how good he can be when a real, competent SS is taking care of those responsibilities. Bethea has had too much to do especially the last 2 years. He's had to make up for deficiencies at every other backfield position. I do agree he is very good in run support. I am not so sure he's significantly better at one or the other, I think he is just good at both. If the Colts could find another Bethea type somewhere I would not mind running a backfield where they both play both roles.

Zimmer is my first choice for head coach. I like the defense he runs a lot. I've wanted to move to a more traditional 1-gap 4-3 for a while and I think you make a good case for it. Zimmer would be the right guy to make it happen IMO. The Johnson-style 4-3 is nice to think about but I'm not sure there is a HC-ready guy out there that could run it. Maybe there is and I just don't know about him.

I'd like to hear your thoughts on Jamaal Anderson. I think he played well enough to earn a 2nd contract and unless an unbelievable DE value falls to us in the draft I would rather just keep him and let Mathis walk. Hate to say that but I think Mathis will get a big contract from another team and I don't think he's good enough in run support at all.

Seamus2602
01-03-2012, 10:10 AM
Nevis - yes he lined up at the 1-tech spot, but he plays like an undertackle. He is not a NT and I hope the next coach agrees. He is a good interior pass rusher and I hope he is moved to that position next year. I was really scratching my head when Polian said he would play NT. Nevis' talent is wasted as a block eater. Having a real NT will help the LBs a lot. I would like to get a Corey Simon-type to play NT. The 05 DL was a thing of beauty. I see Nevis as more of a rich man's 05 Montae Reagor type. What do you see in Nevis' game that you think makes him a good NT prospect vs. a penetrating UT? Note that I am equating 1-tech with NT and 3-tech with UT so if I am off in that let me know.

In most 1-Gap systems (including the 1-Gap 4-3, the Johnson 4-3 and even the Phillips 3-4) the 1-Tech Nose Tackle penetrates on every snap. He has to shoot the A Gap while also taking up the two offensive linemen he is marking. There are two forms of the 1-Tech Nose Tackle that are used and two prototypical players for it. The one you mention, the big man-eater is personified in Pat Williams. He sucks up two men allowing his ends to have a one on one matchup or allow the 3-Tech to have a one on one matchup. The second type is the penetrating 1-Tech, with the prototypical player being Albert Haynesworth. While he sometimes lined up at 3-Tech he was at his best as a 1-Tech, penetrating the pocket, collapsing the pocket and dominating the point of attack in the run game. While Nevis isnít of that calibre he does have the penetrating characteristics. Nevis could play 3-Tech very well (maybe even better than 1-Tech) but if he is also not a strange choice for the 1-Tech.

Mathis - No, he is not effective against the pass and the run. Not at all. He does well for his size vs. the run but his ceiling is pretty low. He is too easy to drive out of the way and while his agility helps him to get around blockers he can't be consistent.

I'd like to hear your thoughts on Jamaal Anderson. I think he played well enough to earn a 2nd contract and unless an unbelievable DE value falls to us in the draft I would rather just keep him and let Mathis walk. Hate to say that but I think Mathis will get a big contract from another team and I don't think he's good enough in run support at all.

I think if he is asked to take on one man, one gap then Mathis is effective as a run stopper. Heís led the defensive line in tackles the last two years in a row and has an ability to avoid the Linemen getting a hand on him. Yes if the Linemen gets the hands on him the Mathis is too easily pushed back but if the team keep the Cover 2 or bring in Zimmer then I think Mathis is the sort of end that Zimmer is going to want. Take Mathis out of the line-up, without a proper blitz from the SLB, and without proper pressure from the middle then the Colts could really struggle to create any pressure on the Quarterback.

I think Jamaal Anderson should be resigned and maybe Tyler Brayton too. I like them in the Raheem Brock role of playing end on run downs but kicking in on passing downs. It depends on what they ask for as they played this year on veteran minimum and they wonít settle for that next year. I would say that if the team to convert to a more blitz heavy system then I think they could be ideal for the Defensive End position, keeping the Tackle and Tight End busy and allow the Linebacker to get a clean shot at the Quarterback (almost what is supposed to happen in the 1-Gap 3-4).

I like Bethea in coverage more than you do. I think you are forgetting how good he can be when a real, competent SS is taking care of those responsibilities. Bethea has had too much to do especially the last 2 years. He's had to make up for deficiencies at every other backfield position. I do agree he is very good in run support. I am not so sure he's significantly better at one or the other, I think he is just good at both. If the Colts could find another Bethea type somewhere I would not mind running a backfield where they both play both roles.

It isnít that I think Bethea is poor in coverage. I think he is very good in coverage. Its just that he is a lot better as a playmaker in the run game than he is as a playmaker in the passing game. If Bethea is playing deep third then Iím happy because he is good at it but I would be happier if they get a player who mightnít be as good playing the run but is solid in coverage and then moving Bethea to SS. I think that they could find a deep third guy a lot easier than a safety capable of doing both, which is what they need if the keep Bethea at FS.

Zimmer is my first choice for head coach. I like the defense he runs a lot. I've wanted to move to a more traditional 1-gap 4-3 for a while and I think you make a good case for it. Zimmer would be the right guy to make it happen IMO. The Johnson-style 4-3 is nice to think about but I'm not sure there is a HC-ready guy out there that could run it. Maybe there is and I just don't know about him.

I donít think the Head Coach necessarily needs to be defensive minded. Jon Gruden is a possible option for the role (and I think he would come to Indy as I think he wants to have Manningís babies). So if Gruden is hired and they hire Spags as the DC then they could install the Johnson 4-3 without the Head Coach.

That being said Zimmer is my top choice as well.

Paul
01-03-2012, 11:30 AM
I'm going to sneak in here real quick for a question and I'll be on my way out. Could Mathis stand up in a 3-4?

killxswitch
01-03-2012, 11:37 AM
I'm going to sneak in here real quick for a question and I'll be on my way out. Could Mathis stand up in a 3-4?

I think so. There are plenty of rush OLBs that don't really cover receivers or do so on a very limited basis, and Mathis is an excellent athlete and works very hard. That is why I don't think he'll return. I think a 3-4 team will pay him more money than the Colts can reasonably offer.

Seamus2602
01-03-2012, 11:38 AM
I'm going to sneak in here real quick for a question and I'll be on my way out. Could Mathis stand up in a 3-4?

I'd imagine that if Mathis was coming out of College today he would probably be considered more of a 3-4 OLB than a 4-3 DE but it can be difficult to tell. There are things he'd be asked to do in the 3-4 that he wouldn't in the 4-3 (such as drop into coverage). The big thing is that Mathis is going to command top level money this offseason so is a 3-4 team going to risk giving him that money without knowing if he can play the position?

MaxV
01-03-2012, 11:46 AM
A switch from hand-on-the-ground DE to 3-4 OLB could be done early in the career.

At this point, both Freeney and Mathis have been doing it for too long imo.

killxswitch
01-03-2012, 11:53 AM
I kind of hope if Mathis leaves that he does go to a 3-4 team because I'd like to see how he does. I personally think he'll succeed wherever he goes.

RagingColt
01-03-2012, 03:01 PM
From what I've read in the last day or so, Reggie McKenzie as GM and Zimmer as HC would seem to be good moves. Defense and special teams would no longer be weak points. Reggie seems as qualified as anyone to be a GM.

falloutboy14
01-03-2012, 08:09 PM
If McKenzie & Zimmer are the guys, does Irsay have to wait till the Packers/Bengals are out of the playoffs?

Also, what's the difference between the tampa 2 & one gap 4-3?
Is this the lighter/faster players, pass-rush focus, middle linebacker getting back into the deep middle, corners playing the short zones?

I kind of like Bethea in the SS role. That goal-line tackle against the Jaguars was impressive. Plus, I imagine he's got the veteran sense to read the play between run/pass to know what to do. If I'm off-base, let me know, but I think he's well suited to both. If an FS is there for the taking, don't see why we don't take him and put Bethea in at SS.

Also, what kind of investment do some of these defenses need as far as draft picks & salaries. One of the nice parts of running the tampa 2 is that the Cato Junes of the world, we could pick in the 6th round.

Also yet again I want to bring up Aubrayo Franklin. He only signed a 1-year deal with the Saints.
I'm honestly not up on the non-top 3 WRs in the draft. I like Collie but he is a slot guy only IMO.

1) Kind of wish they'd brought him in last year, but with the quickness of everything, a lot of players just went someone so they knew they'd have a team. In a traditional off-season I bet he would be the highest sough-after defensive player.
2) One WR I like is Marvin McNutt from Iowa. He's 6'4, with long arms. Not a burner, but can catch everything near him. I think paired with Garcon, who can stretch the defense, we'd have a good set. His hands are inconsistent though. He'll almost definitely be there for our 3rd pick. Might be there for 4th.

I have to say, when determining if mid-late round guys will be there when you pick, it's nice to be picking first instead of 20th.

Seamus2602
01-04-2012, 10:31 AM
Also, what kind of investment do some of these defenses need as far as draft picks & salaries. One of the nice parts of running the tampa 2 is that the Cato Junes of the world, we could pick in the 6th round.

I think that was more Bill Polian than the Tampa 2. Of that great Tampa Bay defence in 2002 only one was undrafted (Shelton Quarles), the rest were all drafted in the 4th round or higher, with four of them being picked in the 1st round, including Derrick Brooks who played the Weakside Linebacker position that Cato June played for the Colts. The key element of the Tampa 2 is that utilises speed more than anything which means you can play small but fast players who may drop a bit further but if you want a good defence then you need to invest in it. For what it is worth the Colts defence that won the Superbowl in it had 3 players drafted in the 1st round as well.

Also, what's the difference between the tampa 2 & one gap 4-3?
Is this the lighter/faster players, pass-rush focus, middle linebacker getting back into the deep middle, corners playing the short zones?

The Tampa 2 is primarily a zone based, read and react defence. It is bend don't break at its purest. The idea is to generate pressure with a 4 man rush and drop the other 7 guys back in coverage. Generate enough pressure, with that coverage, and the Quarterback will struggle to move the ball. It utilises an undersized front 7 as the Linebackers have to be fast enough to cover well and the Linemen have to get to the passer quickly. This, plus the fact that in the passing game the Middle Linebacker and the Strong Safety drop back deep means it is susceptible to the run. It pushes a lot of wear and tear on the Cornerbacks as it requires them to be physical with the Receiver at the start and also calls on them to make more plays on the run.

The 1-Gap 4-3 is the pure vanilla 4-3 and so is very variable. The key element of the Tampa 2 is that Tampa 2 defences use their base play (4 Man Rush, CB bump and cover the short, Outside Backers cover the Intermediate, Mike Covers deep middle and the Safeties cover the outside deep thirds) about 40% of the time. There isnít maybe the same consistency of play calling in the 1-Gap and it is changed up a lot. There is more blitzing (but not as much as in the Johnson 4-3), more man coverage and only really the Defensive Line and the Free Safety will have consistency of play calling, with the Free Safety playing the deep third. The 1-Gap can be a Cover 1 (only the FS stays back), Cover 2 (the SS joins him), Cover 3 (the two CBs join him) or a Cover 4 (the SS and the two CBs join him). It requires more all round Cornerbacks than the Tampa 2, a pretty variable Strong Safety (but so does the Tampa 2) but a relatively basic Free Safety. The Linebackers will normally be in man coverage (SLB on the TE, MLB and WLB on the FB/TE and the RB) but the can drop into a variety of short and intermediate zones. The Strong Safety is asked to do a lot as he can be called on to blitz, play the run in the box, cover the TE, help cover any of the Wide Receivers, drop of into a Cover 2 zone and a lot more.

If McKenzie & Zimmer are the guys, does Irsay have to wait till the Packers/Bengals are out of the playoffs?

Defiantly with Zimmer and probably with McKenzie. There isn't an organisation in the world that would allow another team to interrupt their preparations and take the focus away from their coaches and front office during the playoffs and there isn't that many organisations that would try to poach a guy during them. The big thing is that even if Cincinnati go out at the weekend then Zimmer wouldnít be approached straight away. I think Irsay wants the GM in place before deciding on a Head Coach so I think we will have to wait for Green Bay, Baltimore, Pittsburgh or New England to go out before the new GM is appointed.

Paul
01-04-2012, 11:50 AM
Surprised it took Zimmer this long to come this close to a HC job. I loved him in Dallas, our defense under him was always consistently good. Plus he's just a ******* boss of an individual

killxswitch
01-04-2012, 01:32 PM
Surprised it took Zimmer this long to come this close to a HC job. I loved him in Dallas, our defense under him was always consistently good. Plus he's just a ******* boss of an individual

One knock I've heard that I have not considered is that he's never been a HC of any team at any level. I'm not convinced that that is a problem but it's a little surprising.

Seamus2602
01-04-2012, 04:38 PM
One knock I've heard that I have not considered is that he's never been a HC of any team at any level. I'm not convinced that that is a problem but it's a little surprising.

It isn't actually surprising. Of the 12 teams in the playoffs only two of them are coahced by a guy who was the Head Coach of a team at any level other than the NFL level, Tom Coughlin and Jim Harbaugh. The majority of coaches come through the co-ordinator route where they become a graduate assistant at college, then a positional coach at college, then a positional coach in the NFL, the a co-ordinator in the NFL, then a Head Coach. It is a lot rarer to transfer from being a Head Coach in college to being a Co-Ordinator or Head Coach in the NFL. In fact, even though Tom Coughlin was the Head Coach of a college team it was a Division III team which he left in 1973.

Prowler
01-04-2012, 04:56 PM
There's no complaints about Jim Schwartz. Provided Zimmer transforms himself into a Hoosier and coaches with passion, he'll be fine. There will be some polishing that he'll need to do, but I think he'd just be inspired to put forth his best effort.

redviper311
01-04-2012, 08:46 PM
I think the new General Manager will help determine who the Head Coach is. The problem is that Irsay has said that it could take weeks to get a new GM in place and by that stage many of the top available Head Coaches may already have new jobs. Personally I would like to see one of 4 guys get the GM job:

Floyd Reese - New England Patriots Senior Football Advisor
John Dorsey - Green Bay Packers Director of College Scouting
Ron Hughes - Pittsburgh Steelers College Scouting Coordinator
Pat Moriarty - Baltimore Ravens Vice President of Football Administration

4 guys in proven organisations. I think they could struggle to get a top quality GM off another team (though the high draft pick should entice a few people) and so getting one of the top number 2s from a good organisation would be very good. Floyd Reese would be my preference. He has a proven track record at the Titans (he built the Titans team that won the AFC Championship in 1999) and has been involved in the Patriots (big rivals but still one of the best run organisations in the league) for many years. I think he'd be ideal.

Adam Schefter reports that John Dorsey turned down an offer from Jim Irsay to interview for the GM in Indy. Wow, I am surprised by this. I figured Indy lure people.

killxswitch
01-04-2012, 09:25 PM
Adam Schefter reports that John Dorsey turned down an offer from Jim Irsay to interview for the GM in Indy. Wow, I am surprised by this. I figured Indy lure people.

Not sure what's going on there. Indy is a great landing spot with the #1 pick and a good owner.

Irsay has reportedly asked to talk to Eric DeCosta of the Ravens.

Prowler
01-04-2012, 09:32 PM
Maybe he was scared that Irsay's firing of Polian was a signal that he was going to be more active in the running of the franchise? Just a couple days ago Jerry Jones said that hiring a GM for the Cowboys would "muddle the process". Do they think that he's going to turn into a Jerry Jones?

Seamus2602
01-05-2012, 05:43 AM
I don't actually think there are that many GM positions that would be better than Indy. Maybe the Rams (2nd Overall Pick, new Coach, young, talented roster and, unlike Indy, maybe not the same mega expectations from the fan base). While the expectations are big for the Colts so is the potential and a GM has the chance to shape the future of one of the most dominant franchises in of the last decade. He'll have the 1st Overall Pick, gaining him probably the best QB prospect since either Manning or Elway, the best Quarterback of all time on the roster, a young roster with more talent than they showed last season, the chance to hire a new Head Coach and most importantly an owner who doesn't take major football decisions. Jim Irsay will have noticed that he hired a GM to make the decisions, he hired a good GM and that GM got him one of the most dominant football teams in the NFL and Lombardi trophy. He knows enough about football to know that he shouldn't be making the football decisions for the Colts.

The principle reason I think Dorsey has said no is that I think he wants to stay in Green Bay. Dorsey has spent his entire career in Green Bay. He was a linebacker there before becoming a member of the front office staff. I think he wants to stay there and maybe take over from Ted Thompson once he steps back.

killxswitch
01-05-2012, 07:38 AM
The principle reason I think Dorsey has said no is that I think he wants to stay in Green Bay. Dorsey has spent his entire career in Green Bay. He was a linebacker there before becoming a member of the front office staff. I think he wants to stay there and maybe take over from Ted Thompson once he steps back.

I've heard this too. If he thinks he's next in line for McKenzie's job then I can understand wanting to grow a bit more in your favorite environment and have a chance to run the team you've been a part of for years.

redviper311
01-05-2012, 05:39 PM
I've heard this too. If he thinks he's next in line for McKenzie's job then I can understand wanting to grow a bit more in your favorite environment and have a chance to run the team you've been a part of for years.

Makes sense

killxswitch
01-05-2012, 11:57 PM
McKenzie is going to the Raiders. Bleh. I guess Irsay wasn't interested.

killxswitch
01-06-2012, 08:41 AM
Right now Irsay is linked to the following guys for the GM job:

Eric DeCosta - Ravens
Ryan Grigson - Eagles
David Caldwell - Falcons
Les Snead - Falcons
Jason Licht - Patriots

I'm glad to see Irsay really branching out to find the right guy for the job. Hopefully it happens soon so they can do the same for the new HC and staff before all the good ones are gone.

MaxV
01-06-2012, 09:18 AM
Which of those are your favorites?

killxswitch
01-06-2012, 10:06 AM
I like DeCosta though I have questions about his ability to select non-RB skill position players. Since 2004 the Ravens have brought in a ton of good players on both lines, some good RBs, a great safety that they didn't re-sign, and a few promising-but-unspectacular LBs. So how much of that is DeCosta vs. Ozzie Newsome? Hard to know. I have cooled on him a little but still like him the most because I know the most about him and I would love to have big, dominant players on our OL and DL.

Grigson is intriguing because of the way the Eagles seem to swindle other teams out of draft picks. It's hard to know how much, if any at all, Grigson has played a role in that. They're not afraid to bring in free agents so that is a potential positive as long as we get the right coaches to integrate them. He was a TE and OLman at Purdue which is encouraging when you think about the types of players he might go after. Like DeCosta he is very young. 41 in February apparently.

Licht is a former DL and OLman and was a Pats scout in the late 90s and early 00s, so he presumably had a hand in bringing in all that defensive talent they had back then. He was promoted in NE, then moved to Philly, promoted again, and then fired. So he and Grigson were co-workers at one point. He went to AZ and then back to the Pats which is interesting. I like that he rose through the ranks as a scout, then a lower, mid, and high-level personnel exec. Again, young guy. 40.

Snead has been the Director of Player Personnel for 3 years which coincides with the Falcons' recent success. He's a former Jags scout. TE in college for Auburn so he won't have a Big'nSlow 10 bias like Polian did. Young again, 37. I'm seeing a trend here. Young guys with new ideas.

David Caldwell went to John Carroll University, which is where both Tom Telesco and Chris Polian went to school. He was also on staff with the Colts for 10 years. I don't want an old guard retread, even if he is a younger guy and has been with the Falcons for 4 years. Maybe he was one of the guys Polian ran off, I dunno.

All this knowledge is off the top of my head and definitely didn't come from Wikipedia.

Seamus2602
01-06-2012, 10:32 AM
There is a general trend in that they all seem to young guys, late 30s, early 40s, who made fast but natural progressions up the personnel ladders of successful, well run franchises.

I do worry about David Caldwell. He knows the franchise as he has spent most of his career in Indianapolis and obviously he'll know a lot of the people already there and will integrate into the team better. The problem is the he not only spent most of his career in Indianapolis, he spent most of it under Bill Polian (Caldwell worked for Polian at Carolina before moving with him to the Colts). If the team want a culture change for the Franchise then I don't know if hiring a Polian disciple is the way to do it.

killxswitch
01-06-2012, 10:37 AM
I completely agree with your concerns Seamus. Snead seems like the more seasoned of the two anyway.

falloutboy14
01-06-2012, 11:00 AM
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/01/06/colts-continue-to-line-up-general-manager-interviews/

Giants director of college scouting Marc Ross. The Philadelphia Inquirer writes that Eagles director of player personnel Ryan Grigson will meet for the vacant position. And finally, ESPNDallas.com reports that the Colts have requested to speak with Cowboys assistant director of player personnel Tom Ciskowski.

Irsay's getting a long list.

Smash28Dash34
01-06-2012, 11:20 AM
John Clayton just reported Decosta will stay with Ravens to eventually take over Newsome's job. I'm not a Colts fan, but was he the top choice for you guys because it seems Irsay has a pretty long list.

Seamus2602
01-06-2012, 11:34 AM
John Clayton just reported Decosta will stay with Ravens to eventually take over Newsome's job. I'm not a Colts fan, but was he the top choice for you guys because it seems Irsay has a pretty long list.

He does have a long list. There are a number of GM openings this year (Indy, the Rams, Oakland, Chicago) and a lot of the top guys are in waiting for positions with their current franchise when their current superiors retire (like in the case with DeCosta and Dorsey) so the list does need to be pretty long. Plus a lot of it is guess work so it will come down more to the interview than anything so having a large short list makes sense.

killxswitch
01-06-2012, 12:02 PM
JMV, a local radio personality here in Indy who got a lot of predictions right regarding Manning's injury, thinks Irsay will just promote Tom Telesco and keep Caldwell. If this happens I will be pretty upset.

Seamus2602
01-06-2012, 12:50 PM
JMV, a local radio personality here in Indy who got a lot of predictions right regarding Manning's injury, thinks Irsay will just promote Tom Telesco and keep Caldwell. If this happens I will be pretty upset.

I think Irsay wants to keep Telesco in his current position and is putting him on the shortlist to prevent other teams snatching him away. Telesco is apparently a candidate for the Bears GM position.

By giving him a fair shout at the Indy job it keeps him out of the running for other jobs until the Indy job is decided and by that time most of them just might be filled.

redviper311
01-07-2012, 10:01 AM
None GM related topic, but I found this interesting to say the least. It has been reported that Brock Osweiler (6'8"/240lbs), QB, Arizona State University has declared to enter the NFL Draft. As of now his is not a 1st rounder (wait for Combine and Pro Days), but set all kinds of records for ASU program. Was 326/516 on the year. Threw for 4000+ yards for 26TD/13INT. For 63.2%.

Should Manning be healthy enough to return next season for us I like the idea of trading out of the 1st overall pick and drafting a good QB that shows great potential later. Tom Brady was a 6th round pick, Aaron Rogers slide all the way to 24th pick b/c of his mechanics and release. And after three years of grooming look at him now. Not saying Osweiler is either of those guys, but the more I watch Luck on film I am not so sure. Need to watch more on him and upcoming events. But wanted to throw around ideas and think outside the box a little.

VikesWookie
01-07-2012, 11:22 AM
Even if the Colts were to try to trade Manning, is there a team that could absorb his contract? Most teams don't have 28M in cap space... even if they made some neccessary personnel moves...
I'd keep Manning and trade down a couple of spots. Cleveland or Miami would have the juice to make it happen. Any thoughts?

killxswitch
01-07-2012, 11:35 AM
Even if the Colts were to try to trade Manning, is there a team that could absorb his contract? Most teams don't have 28M in cap space... even if they made some neccessary personnel moves...
I'd keep Manning and trade down a couple of spots. Cleveland or Miami would have the juice to make it happen. Any thoughts?

I'm 99% sure that if Manning is healthy enough to play like he has in the past, he will get paid and they will still draft Luck.

Manning can't be traded. The $28M bonus is due before the new league year starts, which means he can't be traded before the team pays him $28M. They're not going to pay him all that and then just trade him. Either they keep him or they release him.

RCAChainGang
01-07-2012, 11:54 PM
I would be cool with trading the pick down a couple spots and snag RG3. Then get several more picks for fixing our dismal roster.

Prowler
01-08-2012, 05:35 AM
Luck both fits our current personnel and is the superior prospect. We need to be disciplined and take Luck. Trade down isn't on the table.

Seamus2602
01-08-2012, 09:12 AM
In reality Luck's scouting report coming out of college reads a lot like Manning's did when he came out of college, with Luck being more athletic. His pre-snap routine is Manningesque and his style of play is similar. Any prospect who will fit Manning will fit Luck.

The only difference is whether the team are in win now mode. If they are then the mid to late round guys will be low celling guys who can contribute now while if they are in rebuilding mode and are trying to create a roster around Luck who can win the Superbowl in three or four years time then they will draft raw prospects, who won't significantly contribute straight away but have a high celling.

killxswitch
01-11-2012, 09:12 AM
Where are my Colts brothers! We have our new GM! Ryan Grigson.

http://legacy.philadelphiaeagles.com/eagles_files/images/Grigson,-Ryan-1.png

MaxV
01-11-2012, 09:25 AM
Ok, I know nothing about him.

I hope he has a good plan.

killxswitch
01-11-2012, 09:54 AM
I wonder if Jeff Fisher is waiting so long on announcing his team because of this. I could see him coming here to coach, with more power and approximately equal standing with Grigson.

falloutboy14
01-11-2012, 11:02 AM
He was an O-lineman, went to Purdue, and was in the nfl a few years in the mid-90s. Had a career ending injury in the CFL. Here's his resume as an executive, courtesy of his wiki article.
Saskatchewan Roughriders (1998)
(Pro scout)
McPherson College (1998)
(Assistant coach)
Buffalo Destroyers (1999)
(Player personnel coordinator/assistant coach)
St. Louis Rams (1999Ė2003)
(National scout/area scout)
Philadelphia Eagles (2004Ė2005)
(Western regional scout)
Philadelphia Eagles (2006Ė2009)
(Director of college scouting)
Philadelphia Eagles (2010Ė2011)
(Director of player personnel)

He's turning 40 soon, so fairly young for a GM. Was promoted quickly within the Eagles, who I consider a fairly good drafting team (and great at trading QBs above their value, which may benefit us at some point).

RagingColt
01-11-2012, 01:12 PM
It's a competent hire as of now. I do hope the Colts now bring in a new coaching staff and have a 4-3 attacking defense. The offense needs needs to be more aggressiveness in the run game too. Hopefully Gribson has the common sense to make great decisions this year.

Good move by Irsay.

Prowler
01-11-2012, 07:10 PM
He seems like a good guy. Anyone with actual scouting background is always nice. It sounds like he had more experience than Mayhew did for the Lions and that turned out perfect. I just hope he fires Caldwell instead of being buddies. We can't have everyone in the organization be "good family men". I want someone to toughen them up. Peyton Manning shouldn't be the only guy leading the team. I don't want to see a culture of complacency and yes men. Lets get a good coach.

killxswitch
01-11-2012, 10:23 PM
I don't think it will be Grig's decision. I think at first Irsay is going to take a more active role until Grigs and the new coach get settled.

Caldwell being fired is a foregone conclusion IMO. If they haven't given him a vote of confidence yet I don't think they are going to.

I think Jeff Fisher is our new HC. Why else is he stalling in his answer to STL and Miami?

Prowler
01-12-2012, 10:29 AM
Polian gone, Two franchise quarterbacks, a winning tradition, friendly market...I'd say the Colts have to be the best job out there for a head coach.

killxswitch
01-12-2012, 10:51 AM
Polian gone, Two franchise quarterbacks, a winning tradition, friendly market...I'd say the Colts have to be the best job out there for a head coach.

You would think so. But I am concerned about the salary cap situation.

Freeney is due a whopping $19 million this year. Manning of course is due his $28 million bonus. And our new GM admittedly doesn't have any experience with salary cap work.

Prowler
01-12-2012, 11:05 AM
We need to switch defensive philosophies. I want to be bigger up front and be able to play two ways instead of just against the pass. Frankly, we can start cutting some of our defensive stars and replacing them with UDFA and practice squad guys that fit whatever our new coach will do. It won't be any worse than last year.

Cap situation

1) I would try and get Freeney to agree to a new contract extension. Frankly, our best bet might be to trade him. I love him, but 31 year old speed rushers at $19 M aren't a good investment. I would like to get a new contract and defer some of that $19M to later years, but he'd have to take a pay cut. Babin's contract was 5 years $28 million coming off of a 12.5 sack year last year. They are the same age. Freeney needs to be down to $5, call it $6 or $6.5M to be more than generous. Offer him a 4 year extension at 20 million and spread some of this year's money over the length of the deal to be about $39-40 million over 5 years. It's seriously more than fair value. If he balks at that extension, then he needs to be traded at the draft. There are quite a few teams out there well below the salary cap with money to burn.

Prowler
01-12-2012, 11:26 AM
Also, Jerry Hughes might be a double whammy of not being worth it and no longer fitting our scheme either. We could shop him for a late rounder on draft day or release him. Its only a couple million, but if he's going to be useless then I'd rather bring Reggie Wayne back. Saturday needs to return, but that will depend on Manning. We need Mathis or Freeney, and only both if they are around $7-9 M cap number apiece. Garcon can come back if he realizes that he's only a $1.5M/year receiver, if not than I'd rather try and lure vets out of potential retirement to help us on the cheap. TO will do it for the minimum and fulfill the position of 'guy who bobbles the ball on long passes'. There are tons of good receivers out there, we just need to find some Victor Cruz types. Grigson should be familiar with them.

The fat needs to be trimmed now, or else the team will be rebuilding for half a decade. Cut, weep, and then get better. The collective bargaining agreement favors those who cut their previous bad contracts and take advantage of the friendly rookie system.

killxswitch
01-12-2012, 11:35 AM
Freeney definitely will need a restructure. And I'm ok with keeping Anderson and letting Mathis walk. He will get a good offer with another team and the Colts just can't pay everybody.

Gary Bracket's deal is so terrible. Apparently if they cut him they'll only save like $500K. Still worth it but dammit that was a terrible signing by Polian.

If they can save a bunch by cutting Clark I think they should. Tamme did about 90% of what Clark can do, for about 20% of the price. And he doesn't drop the ball as much either.

I think Garcon actually improved a lot this year and it's kind of lucky (in a backwards kind of way) that we had such crappy QB play this year. No one noticed his improvement and still thinks of him as the guy that drops passes. If Manning had been healthy Garcon would've had 1300+ yards and 10+ TDs and we'd be in real trouble trying to sign him.

I agree. Trade Hughes if you can, cut him if not. When Mario Addison walks in off the street and takes your job, you suck. I think he's just not a DE in the NFL.

redviper311
01-12-2012, 02:21 PM
I agree that Jerry Hughes is probably not a DE in the NFL, but should we change defensive style from a 4-3 to a 3-4 or even a 5-2 I think you can keep Hughes and move him to OLB. Just a thought.

killxswitch
01-12-2012, 02:38 PM
I agree that Jerry Hughes is probably not a DE in the NFL, but should we change defensive style from a 4-3 to a 3-4 or even a 5-2 I think you can keep Hughes and move him to OLB. Just a thought.

I find that very unlikely.

falloutboy14
01-12-2012, 06:52 PM
Don't think changing our scheme to fit one of our worst defenders is a wise choice.

Bigger DTs, a LB able to blitz, another corner, safety and some scheme adjustments would go a long way.

MaxV
01-14-2012, 10:25 AM
So, Fisher wants full control of personnel.

No thanks, let's go with someone else.

RagingColt
01-14-2012, 01:48 PM
Anyone heard any leads as to whom Gribson/Irsay are targeting? I find it unlikely that the current coaching staff/Caldwell stay on in any capacity.

Prowler
01-14-2012, 02:02 PM
I get the impression that he's just going over all the game tape and having a half dozen or so conversations with Irsay about team direction. I think an announcement will be made by middle of next week.

falloutboy14
01-14-2012, 09:35 PM
If Caldwell isn't out by Tuesday, I got a feeling he gets another year.

MaxV
01-14-2012, 10:04 PM
If Caldwell isn't out by Tuesday, I got a feeling he gets another year.

Oh man, I hope not.

killxswitch
01-14-2012, 11:29 PM
Oh man, I hope not.

Two local radio guys are now saying Caldwell gets another year. Which is complete ********. Why can the GM but keep the coach that went 2-14 and made multiple loss-inducing timeout mistakes (that he then said he would make again)? Yes, Polian kept his leash tight. That doesn't mean the entire team should waste another season on this fat loser.

dannyz
01-16-2012, 08:05 PM
I don't see why a big name coach would not want to come in and Coach Luck? I didn't see alot of Colts games this Year but I just Hate Caldwell and think he needs to go. Why Rebuild Everything but not get a New Coach?

falloutboy14
01-17-2012, 12:53 PM
I wouldn't say we're in the rebuilding phase as of yet. I guess the plan is to continue the Manning era & keep Luck in your pocket for when his time comes. In theory, our consistent coach is better than an actual coach.

RagingColt
01-17-2012, 01:10 PM
Initial reports from several sources has Caldwell staying in place and Spags being hired on for DC. Yay on Spags arriving if that happens. Nay on Stone Face staying.

killxswitch
01-17-2012, 01:33 PM
I would look at it more like Spags would be the "head coach" of the defense and Caldwell will basically be offensive head coach. Which means Manning will make all the play call decisions. Hopefully someone other than Caldwell will make timeout, challenge, and other in-game decisions. I don't want Caldwell but getting Spags would make me feel a lot better about it.

killxswitch
01-17-2012, 01:35 PM
Caldwell is fired!!! Caldwell is fired!!!!

RagingColt
01-17-2012, 01:46 PM
Awesome, stone face is gone. Perhaps Spags would be our new HC then? Supposed reports had Irsay flying to St. Louis today.

falloutboy14
01-17-2012, 01:48 PM
http://blogs.colts.com/2012/01/17/the-indianapolis-colts-release-jim-caldwell/


We're FREE!!!!!!!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rHJoj9IqeKg

killxswitch
01-17-2012, 01:55 PM
Awesome, stone face is gone. Perhaps Spags would be our new HC then? Supposed reports had Irsay flying to St. Louis today.

Yep I read those too. I wouldn't mind it personally but it would be weird to bring in a 2-14 HC to replace a 2-14 HC. I can see that causing drama even though I wouldn't mind.

MaxV
01-17-2012, 01:56 PM
YES!!!!!

Awesome news.

RagingColt
01-17-2012, 02:06 PM
Spags would be a great DC but I am not wanting him as HC. Perhaps the reports of Irsay flying to st. Louis were as bogus as the ones saying Caldwell would be retained.

killxswitch
01-17-2012, 02:12 PM
Spags would be a great DC but I am not wanting him as HC. Perhaps the reports of Irsay flying to st. Louis were as bogus as the ones saying Caldwell would be retained.

You can actually track his plane via some airline website so it is not bogus.

falloutboy14
01-17-2012, 02:14 PM
I'm too overjoyed to seriously think about candidates. Spags sounds fine as a DC, not so sure as HC. But I'll look at it more tomorrow.

killxswitch
01-17-2012, 02:15 PM
I'm too overjoyed to seriously think about candidates. Spags sounds fine as a DC, not so sure as HC. But I'll look at it more tomorrow.

Now it's time to go drink!!!

MaxV
01-17-2012, 02:18 PM
Will Spags bring a more aggressive 4-3 system?

killxswitch
01-17-2012, 02:26 PM
Will Spags bring a more aggressive 4-3 system?

I don't see how he possibly wouldn't.

RagingColt
01-17-2012, 09:18 PM
Will Spags bring a more aggressive 4-3 system?

Think a great majority of us have been asking for this for at least two years or more now. I'm tired of seeing our Mike LB retreat 15 yards down field only for the opposing QB to throw a dump off pass to a back and get 1st downs. It's sheer madness to use as a base D. OK if you're playing with a huge, 2 touchdown at least, type of lead.

With the poor drafting of interior D-Lineman I don't think the Tampa-2 was ever as effective as it should have been after Dungy installed it. Obviously it was never dominant like what Dungy had back in Tampa w/Brooks, Sapp, Barber and Lynch. We had the outside pass rushers in Freeny/Mathis and on the whole average/slightly above LBs in Washington, Thornton, Keiaho, Bracket, June. The best corner tandem we had during this time was Jackson/Hayden. When Bobzilla was healthy with Bethea playing we had the talent at safeties to make it work but never the consistent talent at DT.

I just hope the talent level rebuilt with equal amounts going to both the skill positions as well as the Defense under Gribson. Coaches who can coach will be an asset too esp if they are capable of making adjustments during the game. That hasn't been a strength in recent years.


EDIT: Appears Spags turned down the DC postion.

killxswitch
01-18-2012, 01:39 PM
Who are you guys thinking about for the Colts HC job? Coordinators? Here are mine:

- Mike Zimmer, DC, Bengals

I've talked about him for months. Great motivator, great 4-3 defensive mind, exciting 1 gap 4-3 with aggressive play calls. He has excelled in Cincy despite crap ownership and a questionable coach running the team. He is my first choice. Would need a solid OC to run the offense.

- Chuck Pagano, DC, Ravens

I think people still look at the Ravens as Rex Ryan's creation, but the reality is that Ryan left for the Jets in 2009. Since then the Ravens defense has added new pieces and is still really, really good. Pagano is in his first year on the job as DC and has them in the top 5 for total defensive, run defense, and pass defense. He has a ton of experience, mainly as a defensive backs coach. IMO this is more of a risk since Pagano has only been a DC for one season and Baltimore always spends money on defensive players.

Joe Philbin, OC, Packers

He's the OC that has worked with both Favre and Rogers, so he's been through the transition from one superstar QB to (hopefully) another. The GB offense has been a high-flying powerhouse that has ranked highly since he took over. He is also a former OL coach so I expect he'd be a good guy to address the Indy OL situation.


Coordinators:

If we get an offensive-minded HC, I would like Spags obviously. But that might not be possible. If not, I wouldn't mind looking at position coaches like Jim Tomsula of the 49ers. He's the DL coach and has been both a DC and even a HC in NFL Europe.

If we get a defensive-minded HC, I think a known QB guru would be preferable to bring in, to try to develop Luck quickly. I wouldn't even mind bringing David Shaw in from Stanford. But he may not want to leave a head coaching spot for an NFL coordinator position.

falloutboy14
01-19-2012, 08:49 AM
I've heard Metzalaars (OL), Reich (WR), and both Teerlincks (DL & Defensive assistant) are out. Also strength & conditioning coach Torine. And of course the big fish Caldwell.

Any other coaches I missed?

killxswitch
01-19-2012, 09:42 AM
I've heard Metzalaars (OL), Reich (WR), and both Teerlincks (DL & Defensive assistant) are out. Also strength & conditioning coach Torine. And of course the big fish Caldwell.

Any other coaches I missed?

I didn't hear about Teerlinck! That is great news. No more DEs playing DT.

Prowler
01-19-2012, 11:14 AM
So hypothetically, do you think that now if Zimmer gets to be the HC that Clyde stays to run the offense? I don't know what kind of coaching tree Zimmer would have to bring with him to Indy.

killxswitch
01-19-2012, 11:30 AM
So hypothetically, do you think that now if Zimmer gets to be the HC that Clyde stays to run the offense? I don't know what kind of coaching tree Zimmer would have to bring with him to Indy.

I hope not. I hope to hear Christiansen's name today, as in "Clyde Christian joins <insert all the other coaches> in being fired by new Colts GM Ryan Grigson today".

Prowler
01-19-2012, 12:00 PM
If I had to blindly guess, I would have figured that Peyton must want some kind of continuity for offense. Keeping Christensen is probably a way of appeasing Manning if he's healthy. As an added bonus, Luck has familiarity with making audibles at the line and would be a good fit.

killxswitch
01-19-2012, 12:02 PM
The problem is, Christiansen is worthless.

RagingColt
01-19-2012, 02:10 PM
The problem is, Christiansen is worthless.

Agree. My thinking is anyone associated the Colts coaching staff from 2011 should be terminated. I've not been impressed by Christianson at any point and 2011 proved that w/out Manning he was a below average play caller.

Zimmer is rumored to be getting an interview soon. They asked to interview Carmicheal from the Saints and Jerry Gray of the Titans.

falloutboy14
01-19-2012, 06:01 PM
http://www.fox59.com/news/wxin-indianapolis-colts-release-eight-members-of-coaching-staff-one-other-retires-20120119,0,1191882.column

The team relieved Coaching Assistant Devin Fitzsimmons,
Offensive Line Coach Pete Metzelaars,
Special Assistant to the Defense Rod Perry,
Wide Receivers Coach Frank Reich,
Defensive Assistant Bill Teerlinck,
Defensive Line Coach John Teerlinck,
Strength and Conditioning Coach Jon Torine and
Quarterbacks Coach Ron Turner of their responsibilities.
Defensive Coordinator Mike Murphy announced his retirement.

The Colts.com coaches list was updated since I last looked. The remaining:
Clyde Christensen Offensive Coordinator
Jim Bob Cooter Assistant to the Offensive Coordinator
Richard Howell Assistant Strength Coach
Mike Murphy Defensive Coordinator
Ron Prince Asst. Offensive Line Coach
Ricky Thomas Tight End Coach

The fact that they updated it leads me to think these guys survived.

killxswitch
01-19-2012, 10:13 PM
Keeping Christensen is a joke. So is keeping anybody named Jim Bob Cooter.

RagingColt
01-20-2012, 10:54 PM
Oh. Hell. No.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/01/20/colts-want-to-talk-with-brad-childress/

falloutboy14
01-20-2012, 11:11 PM
I saw that too. He was with the Eagles (QB coach/O-Coordinator) while Grisgon was there, so it may just be that. I really don't know much about him other then the Vikings imploding last season, and a series of generally bad decisions.

He might be a good O-Coordinator/QB Coach.

dannyz
01-20-2012, 11:43 PM
I heard Tressel would Interview for the Job? What do you knows think about him being the Head Coach or OC?

killxswitch
01-21-2012, 03:00 AM
Ugh. Tressell. Childress. Why are Irsay and Grigs screwing around with these losers? Just hire Zimmer and move forward.

Prowler
01-21-2012, 08:27 AM
Tressell is far from my top choice, but he can at least assemble a decent coaching staff.

*and I might not be able to watch them if they had Childress as coach.

killxswitch
01-21-2012, 09:58 AM
The fact that Tressell doesn't suck quite as much as Childress is not a good reason to make him the HC. Ugh. Just hire Zimmer already!! Bring in some toughness!!

RagingColt
01-21-2012, 10:04 AM
Irsay did fly down to Florida to meet with Tressel.

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/7486645/indianapolis-colts-interview-jim-tressel-coach-job-reports-say

Agree that Childress might be a decent OC candidate, but that's about it. Perhaps Irsay is just covering all bases here.

MaxV
01-21-2012, 10:29 AM
Tressell's system worked well in College, but I don't like it for NFL.

falloutboy14
01-23-2012, 10:02 PM
Tomorrow (Tuesday) Chuck Pagano, Ravens DC, set to interview for HC job. Have to say I like the sound of that better then the string Childress, Tressell, etc we've been hearing about.

RagingColt
01-24-2012, 06:02 PM
Based on an Indy Star article, Irsay/Gribson have met or have interest in the following:

Jim Tressel - Former College Coach w/Ohio State - Current 'replay honcho' w/Colts currently

Positives -

Coached in Big 10 - gotta be a positive in the midwest
Good game day organization and time management . . .
Winning Tradition - Won Championships at both Youngstown State (4) and Ohio State (1).

Negatives

Forced out at Ohio State after lying/concealing facts regarding his student athletes trading jerseys ect for tats from a guy under investigation by the FBI.
Not sure if his game plans/philosophies translate well to NFL.

My take - I don't want to see this guy wearing a Colts sweater vest at any point. We're a midwest team and I don't like the fact he new what was going on with regard to his players and did nothing.

Interest level - Ice Cold

Mike Zimmer - Defense Coordinator with Cincinnati Bengals.

Positives

Bengals have played well and in the top half of the league in most stat categories while Zimmer has been the DC.
Led the Cowboys to the top ranked D in '03.
Has coached both 4-3 and 3-4
Long time assistant/DC coach
Players seem to love playing for him
Born in Illinois - Again the Midwest connection don't hurt!

Negatives

Has been passed over several times for head coaching jobs - Nebraska, Cowboys ect.
Never been a head coach.
Game clock mang is unknown
Would need to bring in an effective OC to run the offense

My Take - Would bring in an ideal 4-3 attacking Defense to the Colts that in theory wouldn't take a long time to implement fully - think 2-3 seasons.

Interest Level - Quite high


Pete Carmichael Jr - New Orleans Saint's Offensive Coordinator

Positives

Saints are perennially a top 3 offense
Drew Brees set several NFL history records this year
Would bring with him a dynamic offense to help groom our new QB (Luck or Griffin III)

Negatives

Only started play calling this year after Sean Payton was injured
No head coaching experience

My take - A decent enough candidate who might be a wild card in the search

Interest - Neutral

Brad Childress - Not in coaching this year after being fired in Nov of 2010 by the Vikes

Positives

Led Vikes to two division crowns with among the better Defenses
Graduated from my alma mater - Eastern Illinois . . . Midwest roots FTW!

Negatives

Flamed out with Farve
Lied to the media over trading for Randy Moss then cutting him shortly there after
Game Mang is a joke

My Take - Irsay must have been drunk or on meds when he interviewed Childress. It would be scary if he tutored Luck or Richardson . . . I don't mean that in a good way either.

Interest - Zilch

Jerry Gray - Defense Coordinator with Tennessee Titans

Positives

Over saw top 5 ranked Def while the DC w/Bills in early Aughts
Played 9 years in the NFL as a DB
Protege of Gregg Williams

Negatives

Applied yet was not hired to be the head coach of the University of Memphis

My take - I am not familiar enough with Mr. Gray to really have an opinion.

Interest - N/A

Chuck Pagano - Defensive Coordinator of the Baltimore Ravens

Positives

Oversaw a top 3 D in 2011 w/Ravens
Been w/Ravens since '08 after Harbaugh hire
Been with a great organization in Baltimore

Negatives

Unsure if a 3-4 would work in Indy with talent . . . ok it won't
Unknown if he was really that great of a coach or if the method in which the Ravens organization is set up produces great defense . . .. See last two Raven DC who became head coaches - Marvin Lewis and Rex in NY who have had mixed results.

My take - A decent enough coach but I'm unsure if he'd really fit with the team. Like Zimmer, he would need to bring in an OC for offensive play calling and to bring along a rookie QB.

Interest - Neutral

Brad Seely - SF 49ers Special Teams Coach

Positives

Previously coached with Colts in early 90s
Speacia teams coach of the year in '96 with the Carolina Panthers
Belicheat coaching tree

Negatives

Only a special teams coach which worries me.

My take - I'm unfamiliar with him and never heard of him till a news story was reported.

Interest - Will interview on Wednesday with Irsay - Not yet known


Tony Dungy - Current TV analyst

This is a distant long shot and I think Dungy sticks with the TV gig.






I still like Mike Zimmer the best of all these candidates. He'd bring in an attacking 4-3 style of D that we badly need. Inject a bit of vigor into the organization that it's lacked from the HC going back to '02. I think at the time Dungy was hired, the team needed a guiding calm voice for a coach. I remember watching Dungy's training camps at Terre Haute back in '02-'05 and they were quiet yet very efficiently ran. That said, Caldwell lacked the right qualities to be a HC and we need someone who can game manage and not F up Timeouts or ignore the pursuit of perfection. Zimmer would need to bring in a new OC as I don't want anyone associated with the 2011 team to be here for the 2012 season. Think Irsay would be pretty patient with him so he could have a few drafts to get his own players in plus Gribson needs to sign the occasional mid level FA to help the cause. If these factors all end up occuring, within 3 season I can see the team being competitive again.

MaxV
01-24-2012, 10:02 PM
The negative on Tressel is that he is extremely conservative.

killxswitch
01-25-2012, 01:42 AM
I know the coaching stuff is a big deal right now but I am getting excited about the draft. I hope Grigs isn't so busy that he's missing out on the Senior Bowl. I think Alameda Ta'amu is our guy in the 2nd. Especially if we get Pagano.

Prowler
01-25-2012, 07:14 AM
Zimmer was in the stands for the Senior Bowl practices.

killxswitch
01-25-2012, 08:54 AM
Zimmer was in the stands for the Senior Bowl practices.

I am wondering if the Colts ever really considered him. We got confirmation of other interviews but only vague reports of interest in Zimmer.

I have no idea who our next HC is going to be.

Prowler
01-25-2012, 03:34 PM
Chuck Pagano it is!

MaxV
01-25-2012, 03:35 PM
I'm not a fan of our D being converted to a 3-4 idea.

It would be a long project.

Prowler
01-25-2012, 03:42 PM
I'm not as up to date as I could be on Pagano. I know they had shifted to more of a hybrid with emphasis on 43 in 2010. I just didn't see too much of them this season to really tell, but I think he should be flexible.

His resume:
http://www.baltimoreravens.com/People/Coaches/Chuck_Pagano.aspx

Chuck Pagano, who spent three seasons as the Ravens’ secondary coach, was named defensive coordinator in January, 2011. Pagano, Baltimore’s fifth defensive coordinator in team history, leads a veteran group that finished 2010 as the NFL’s 10th-ranked unit. The vaunted defense has finished as the NFL’s No. 3 scoring defense (fewest points allowed) each of the past three seasons (2008-10). Baltimore has given up a league-low total of 16.1 points per game and permitted only 80 TDs (tied with Pit. for NFL best) in the last three years. As the team’s secondary coach, Pagano led a defensive backfield that had to adjust to a number of injuries over the past three years, including a significant loss of seven-time Pro Bowl S Ed Reed, who started 2010 on the PUP list. Even after missing the first six games, Reed still led the league with 8 INTs in only 10 games. In Pagano’s first season with the Ravens (2008), the team led the NFL with 26 INTs, including Reed’s NFL-high 9 picks. Reed, the league’s only unanimous (50 votes) All-Pro in 2008, was also coached by Pagano at the University of Miami. Reed grabbed a Miami career-record 21 INTs and blocked four punts in his four-year career under Pagano. Chuck coached the NFL’s No. 1 pass defense at Oakland in 2006 and mentored outstanding secondaries in Cleveland and Miami, prior to joining the Ravens.

2008-10: (with Baltimore)
2010: Even though he missed his first six games on PUP list, S Ed Reed still led the NFL with 8 INTs, earning his seventh Pro Bowl invite...Baltimore’s defense, which was tied for eighth with 19 INTs, finished No. 10 overall (318.9 ypg).

2009: Guided an injury-depleted secondary to a No. 8-overall ranking (tied) against the pass (207.3 ypg)...Defense ranked No. 3 overall (300.5 ypg), the seventh-straight top six finish...Reed earned his sixth Pro Bowl and added to his 13 career TDs by scoring on a 52-yard INT return vs. Cin. (10/11)...Defensive backs tallied 16 of the team’s 22 INTs and Baltimore’s turnover ratio (+10) was fourth best in the NFL.

2008: Secondary ranked No. 2 against the pass (175.5 ypg), improving dramatically from a No. 20 finish in 2007...Unit allowed only 179.7 yards per game...Reed was the NFL’s only unanimous All-Pro selection...He led the NFL with 9 INTs and scored three defensive TDs, plus another (64-yard INT-TD) in the Wild Card victory at Miami (1/4/09)...Defense finished No. 2 overall (261.1 ypg).

2007: (with North Carolina) Posted a one-year stint as the defensive coordinator/defensive backs coach, where Pagano rejoined Butch Davis (Browns and Hurricanes)…Under Pagano, the defense improved from 92nd in 2006 to 35th in 2007.

2005-06: (with Oakland) Spent two seasons as the Raiders’ defensive backs coach. 2006: Raiders led the NFL in pass defense, allowing just 150.8 yards per game, and ranked third in total defense, surrendering only 284.8 yards per contest…CB Nnamdi Asomugha was third in the NFL with 8 INTs.

2001-04: (with Cleveland) Coached the Browns’ secondary under then-head coach Butch Davis…Spent four years coaching alongside Ravens current assistant head coach/special teams coordinator Jerry Rosburg. 2003: DBs helped Cleveland tie the franchise record for allowing the fewest passing TDs (13). 2001: Under Pagano’s guidance, the Browns’ secondary accounted for 28 of the team’s NFL-leading and team-record 33 INTs, which set a new mark…Rookie CB Anthony Henry led NFL with 10 picks.

1995-2000, 1986: (with Miami)
Coached the Hurricanes’ secondary and was special teams coordinator…Pagano coached four NFL first-round DBs: Reed (Ravens, 24th-2002), Phillip Buchanon (Raiders, 17th-2002), Duane Starks (Ravens, 10th-1998) and Mike Rumph (49ers, 27th-2002)…The Hurricanes blocked a surreal 39 kicks in 59 games.

2000: Secondary was tabbed the nation’s best by Football News.

1999: DBs did not allow a passing TD in the last 27 quarters of the season, en route to a 9-4 record.

1996: Posted a single-season school-record 12 blocks.

1986: Was a G.A. at Miami for one year before moving on to Boise State…Returned to Miami in 1995 to coach the secondary and as special teams coordinator.

1992-94, 1989: (with East Carolina)
Spent three seasons as the secondary and OLBs coach in his second stop at the school.

1989: Coached the team’s secondary.

1990-91: (with UNLV)
1991: Named defensive coordinator.

1990: Coached the Rebels’ secondary.

1987-88: (with Boise State) Coached OLBs.

1984-85: (with USC) Launched his coaching career as a graduate assistant at USC in 1984.

COLLEGE
Pagano was a four-year letterman and two-year starter at strong safety for Wyoming…Graduated with a degree in marketing in 1984.

PERSONAL
A four-year letterman and two-year starter at strong safety at Fairview (Boulder, CO) HS…Brother, John, is the Chargers’ linebackers coach...Chuck and his wife, Tina, have three daughters: Tara, Taylor and Tori...Tara and her twin daughters, Avery and Addison (4), live in Idaho, and Taylor spent the 2010 summer as an intern in the Ravens’ marketing department.

MaxV
01-25-2012, 03:44 PM
While many still consider the Baltimore Ravens' defense a 3Ė4, it has shifted towards a 4Ė3 scheme since 2006 when half their games were in a 4-3 base defense. The Ravens' primary pass-rusher, Terrell Suggs, played the majority of his snaps in 2010 as a true defensive end.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/3%E2%80%934_defense



Ok, I take it back.

Prowler
01-25-2012, 03:46 PM
If I had to describe it, I would assume that the Ravens played with basic 34 principles up front. Wrinkle would be designating Suggs as a "rush backer" and pretty much as a defensive end on most plays. The rest look pretty much as advertised. I'm not sure how much of that was Pagano or just smart use of the personnel.

Ngata/Cody/Redding
Suggs-Rush
Lewis/etc at linebacker

MaxV
01-25-2012, 03:48 PM
Sounds like the one guy that can actually find some use for Jerry Hughes.

Prowler
01-25-2012, 03:58 PM
I asked the Ravens team forum for thoughts on his scheme.

If you guys had to define him, is Chuck Pagano a 43 coach or 34? Or was he just keeping the well oiled machine running smoothly and not sure what he'll bring to the Colts?

I would say that he was keeping the machine running smoothly and I don't think he has a specific preference as he's run both. I would say his defining feature as a coordinator was how aggressive he was and how well the defense got after the quarterback. Not quite Rex but close.
He's neither. His style defines him and that's aggressive and versatile.


I would be surprised if he tried to convert them to a 3-4. Him running a 34 had more to do with the Ravens and the players and the system in place more so than it was about him being a 3-4 guy. Personnel wise, the Colts really aren't built at all to run a 34 so I kind of doubt he would to force that change.


http://www.pressboxonline.com/upload/167/167_pagano_483.jpg

redviper311
01-25-2012, 03:58 PM
I am not a fan of the hire, I was really hoping for Pete Carmicheal. I will give him a chance but don't know if I can get behind atm.

Prowler
01-25-2012, 04:04 PM
I am actually super encouraged by this hiring. I never trusted Pete Carmichael because I believe most of the Saint's greatness comes from Sean Payton and Brees.(although I am aware that the same can be said of Pagano and Ray Lewis/Reed/Suggs)

Pagano has done some smoke and mirrors stuff with the Ravens secondary the past few years. The Jason David type days are long over for Indy. I also wonder what he's going to do if the Colts cut Manning and keep Freeney while resigning Mathis.

Throw in a draft like MaxV and killxswitch's forum mock and life should be easier for Andrew Luck.

falloutboy14
01-25-2012, 08:57 PM
Hopefully he will add some complexity to the defense. I feel like we continuously run the same 4-5 plays for 90% of the game.

RagingColt
01-25-2012, 09:00 PM
I was neutral over Pagano in my review of candidates. That said I'm now happy he's the guy. Will be nice to see our D grow in size and add in some meanness and actual scheming.

MaxV
01-25-2012, 10:01 PM
Now we've got to find a competent OC.

Any names?

killxswitch
01-25-2012, 10:28 PM
I am excited about this hire but I am also not ready to proclaim the Colts D completely revamped. We don't and won't have the D talent that Pagano had in Baltimore. Not right away anyway. The draft will help. But I am tempering my expectations and just hoping for some good initial moves on both sides of the ball that will move the team in the right direction.

Zimmer must be a real asshole. Great DC and on paper a great HC prospect but no one seems interested in giving him a shot.


Now we've got to find a competent OC.

Any names?

That CFL guy Trestman is my #1 choice. He is a magic worker with QBs. Sure Luck is NFL-ready but every little bit will help.

Maybe the HC of Stanford, but I doubt he'd leave a HC job at a top Pac 10 school to be an OC.

I don't really see any future stars on the position coaching staff in Baltimore, at least not for offense.

Prowler
01-26-2012, 06:19 AM
I wonder if Butch Davis would be interested in taking a year of doing some DC work for his old pal? He has to do something while waiting for a college to hire him, besides NFL Network stuff.

*more stuff on Pagano from Samari Rolle

http://espn.go.com/blog/nflnation/tag/_/name/colts-hire-chuck-pagano

Some more highlights of my chat with Rolle about Pagano:

On personnel: Expect Pagano to play to the strengths of the people he inherits and to try to gain favorable matchups. The Ravens simplified things more than people think in ways that simply got their best people in the best position.

Rolle rates Pagano as a “great adapter.” He expects Pagano will ultimately want the Colts to field a bigger defense, but will know getting it will be a gradual process.

On offensive approach: “Oh, Chuck likes to run. He likes to run and he believes in keeping the defense fresh. I think if anything, his philosophy is going to be like Coach (Jeff) Fisher’s was in Tennessee,” Rolle said.

On the reasons players like him: He listens to hip hop. He loves joking around with the fellas. Pagano coached at Miami when Rolle was at Florida State, and when they were both with the Ravens they went back and forth about the rivalry all the time.

"He’s got a great football memory,” Rolle said. “He remembers scores, years. He’s fun loving. He’s very, very down to earth.”

On potential assistants: Hue Jackson, recently fired after one season as coach in Oakland, coached Baltimore quarterbacks in 2008-09.

“I could see (Pagano) reaching out to Hue Jackson to be his coordinator," Rolle said. "Hue was there with Chuck and they had some great battles during one-on-ones, some talking wars. I think Hue would be a good person, he might have gotten a raw deal in Oakland. Hue knows football and he knows offensive football.”

On what kind of media personality Pagano will have: "I don’t think he’s a guy who doesn’t like talking,” Rolle said. “The one thing he’ll probably get tired of is having to address all the questions about Peyton. But you ought to give him some time to get adjusted to it.

“He’s got a great personality. He’s not going to make a mockery of your question or be sarcastic. He’s down to earth. I think he gets you guys.”

Seamus2602
01-28-2012, 02:28 PM
Colts have apparently hired Bruce Arians to be the Offensive Coordinator. His retirement lasted less time the Brett Favre's.

RagingColt
01-28-2012, 03:47 PM
Here's hoping Arians doesn't run a pass happy scheme like he ran with the steelers. Was hoping for a more balanced approach.

Mr. Goosemahn
01-28-2012, 03:53 PM
Colts have apparently hired Bruce Arians to be the Offensive Coordinator. His retirement lasted less time the Brett Favre's.

Here's hoping Arians doesn't run a pass happy scheme like he ran with the steelers. Was hoping for a more balanced approach.

Good luck with him. He built a good system with us, but he never really used it well. Weird game planning, questionable play calling, and doesn't really care for running the ball.

Nothing frustrated me more than seeing a 5 receiver set on 3rd and 2. At least pretend there's a chance you'll run it there.

In any case, Ben loved him, and his offense was exciting to watch when everything clicked.

MaxV
01-28-2012, 05:19 PM
Well, I'm sure Pagano values running game.

Prowler
01-28-2012, 05:58 PM
at least its not Martz

killxswitch
01-28-2012, 06:49 PM
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/01/28/report-decision-on-peyton-mannings-future-made-weeks-ago/

Supposedly the team decided to cut Manning 3 weeks ago. We'll see.

MaxV
01-28-2012, 07:24 PM
Very sad news.

I knew it would happen eventually. I just hoped it wouldn't be this soon or this bitter.

killxswitch
01-28-2012, 07:27 PM
Don't take it to heart yet. It was reported by Jason La Canfora. He gets **** wrong all the time. Think about 3 weeks ago. Did a guy like Irsay even have time to fit Manning's future into his head? I think Irsay wants to give Manning all the time possible to heal. He wants Manning to retire a Colt. He's not going to just decide to cut Manning so far in advance of the deadline.

redviper311
01-28-2012, 07:27 PM
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/01/28/report-decision-on-peyton-mannings-future-made-weeks-ago/

Supposedly the team decided to cut Manning 3 weeks ago. We'll see.

Granted this could very well the media trying to spin rumors, but words can't even begin to describe how piss I will be if this occurs! All that Peyton has done for the Colts and the city, this is how you repay the man? I get it, it's business, still doesn't change the fact that I disagree with the business decision. In three weeks time the organization has went from one of the class acts of the NFL to one that looks like an Jerry Jones or Al Davis ran team.

I haven't liked any of the hires up to this point from GM Ryan Grigson, HC Chuck Pagano, and now more recently bring back OC Bruce Arians.

I realize their are fans out there that love these hires and wouldn't mind seeing Manning gone b/c they want that "sure thing" unproven rookie QB first overall. I hope that Manning is back and we trade out of the 1st overall pick and address the other needs we have. Even if we did let Manning go and drafted Luck 1st overall I have a news flash for everyone OUR OFFENSIVE LINE STILL SUCKS!

I think I have to end it hear since I really have nothing nice to say but I had to get it off my chest and say how I felt.

redviper311
01-28-2012, 07:30 PM
Don't take it to heart yet. It was reported by Jason La Canfora. He gets **** wrong all the time. Think about 3 weeks ago. Did a guy like Irsay even have time to fit Manning's future into his head? I think Irsay wants to give Manning all the time possible to heal. He wants Manning to retire a Colt. He's not going to just decide to cut Manning so far in advance of the deadline.

I couldn't agree more with this killxswitch!

redviper311
01-28-2012, 07:31 PM
Granted this could very well the media trying to spin rumors, but words can't even begin to describe how piss I will be if this occurs! All that Peyton has done for the Colts and the city, this is how you repay the man? I get it, it's business, still doesn't change the fact that I disagree with the business decision. In three weeks time the organization has went from one of the class acts of the NFL to one that looks like an Jerry Jones or Al Davis ran team.

I haven't liked any of the hires up to this point from GM Ryan Grigson, HC Chuck Pagano, and now more recently bring back OC Bruce Arians.

I realize their are fans out there that love these hires and wouldn't mind seeing Manning gone b/c they want that "sure thing" unproven rookie QB first overall. I hope that Manning is back and we trade out of the 1st overall pick and address the other needs we have. Even if we did let Manning go and drafted Luck 1st overall I have a news flash for everyone OUR OFFENSIVE LINE STILL SUCKS!

I think I have to end it hear since I really have nothing nice to say but I had to get it off my chest and say how I felt.

Sorry about my rant, I am just VERY passionate this team!

Prowler
01-28-2012, 07:33 PM
I never would have imagined it, but I do believe he will be cut. I wanted to have him for 2 years and just let Luck rot on the bench. I don't think that will happen. We are in full rebuilding mode and they will part ways. Its probably the most respectful thing that we can do by cutting him. No long drawn out process of us holding him hostage for draft picks, just a thank you and the door.

falloutboy14
01-28-2012, 11:27 PM
Without knowing any details on Manning's neck. Andrew Luck might be more of a sure-thing.

I also wonder about the possibility of the Colts not paying the option, then going after him in FA. Just because Irsay doesn't want to pay him the $28m, doesn't mean he can't put forth the best offer. A 2-year, $30m deal might be able to get it done.

RCAChainGang
01-28-2012, 11:31 PM
I'm actually really excited about these hiring. It looks like we are going to be more physical not only on defense, but on offense as well.

I don't want to lose Manning, but I really like how Irsay worded that the Colt was more important than either of them. Seems like Irsay, drunk twittering aside, is handling it well. I'm really optimistic about our GM mostly.

MaxV
01-29-2012, 01:10 PM
Seems like Irsay, drunk twittering aside, is handling it well.

Yeah, I'll have to disagree with you on that one.

MaxV
01-29-2012, 01:38 PM
Looks like Keith Butler is the new DC.

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/7516360/pittsburgh-steelers-lbs-coach-keith-butler-run-indianapolis-colts-d-sources-say

Prowler
01-29-2012, 03:04 PM
Wow. The always trustworthy wikipedia says that he's been the Steeler's linebackers coach since 2003. He apparently also deserves a lot of credit for grooming James Harrison.

As for Irsay...just please don't refer to the Colts as "the horseshoe" again. Please maintain some sort of professional restraint.

killxswitch
01-30-2012, 08:58 AM
What beef do you guys have with Irsay exactly? Other than his comments about Manning being a politician, that whole thing was a mess but Manning shares fault too.

I think Irsay has made some very hard, but potentially very good decisions. I don't like or read the tweets but he has impressed me with his decisiveness in changing the future culture of the team.

MaxV
01-30-2012, 09:13 AM
What beef do you guys have with Irsay exactly? Other than his comments about Manning being a politician, that whole thing was a mess but Manning shares fault too.

I think Irsay has made some very hard, but potentially very good decisions. I don't like or read the tweets but he has impressed me with his decisiveness in changing the future culture of the team.

Irsay fanned the flames with that statement.

Now all of a sudden, Peyton's potential departure is angry and bitter.

killxswitch
01-30-2012, 09:33 AM
Irsay fanned the flames with that statement.

Now all of a sudden, Peyton's potential departure is angry and bitter.

Manning fanned them first when he criticized the team publicly for firing some of the coaches and by undermining Grigson. I don't like how Irsay responded (both of them should've known better) but I'm not worried about it. The joint statement they issued the next day should be enough of an indication that if Manning leaves, it isn't going to be unnecessarily messy.

Prowler
01-30-2012, 10:41 AM
Well, they are taking his job and firing his worthless friends. I understand the decision to wait on seeing if he's healthy before cutting him or making a statement supporting Manning. Manning is frustrated and he is a politician, but Irsay is the boss and needs to keep his hands clean in this. Bite the lip and take the criticism.

Irsay's moves and coaching decisions have been outstanding. It doesn't get too much better for "the horseshoe" than having the Raven's likeable defensive coordinator as coach with the Steeler's linebacker's coach and oc as his coordinators. We'll see how well the new GM works with the new coaching staff. I'm assuming that they won't have giant egos and will get along well with each other. Irsay will probably dictate Luck at #1 and the GM/Coaches/Scouts will probably be free to handle the rest.

killxswitch
02-02-2012, 12:40 PM
Colts hire Greg Manusky to be the DC. Not a fan. I guess he is the best they could do but I hope he just kind of does what Pagano tells him.

RagingColt
02-02-2012, 01:54 PM
I had no clue who he was till i looked at his wiki page. Does not appear to be a great hire.

RagingColt
02-02-2012, 02:06 PM
Pagano hired on a couple of former Raven coaches.

http://articles.baltimoresun.com/2012-02-01/sports/bal-ravens-coaching-changes-20120201_1_linebackers-coach-ravens-defensive-assistant

Marwan Maalouf will be the special teams coach and Roy Anderson will be the secondary/Safties coach.

Prowler
02-02-2012, 02:09 PM
He'll do. I consider the 49ers defense to have been Mike Nolan's and the Chargers to have been Ron Rivera's. The Colts defense will be Chuck Pagano's. Plus, he can take the heat if this defense sucks for a year or two.

MaxV
02-02-2012, 03:32 PM
Marwan Maalouf will be the special teams coach.

Hopefully, he's much better then what we've had here for the past 15 years.

MaxV
02-02-2012, 04:40 PM
Peyton is cleared.

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/7534274/sources-peyton-manning-medically-cleared-resume-nfl-career

killxswitch
02-02-2012, 10:35 PM
Peyton is cleared.

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/7534274/sources-peyton-manning-medically-cleared-resume-nfl-career

He's "cleared" in that his neck is not at risk. But can he throw the ball like he used to?

Prowler
02-03-2012, 03:23 AM
Odds of Irsay completely ignoring this report: 100%.

RagingColt
02-03-2012, 09:37 AM
Roger Marandino is the new strength and conditioning coach. He can't be any worse than what we've seen the past 10 years.

killxswitch
02-03-2012, 03:17 PM
I am pretty irritated with both Manning and Irsay. They took shots at each other via media, then had some sort of meeting to decide not to do that anymore, release their joint statement saying so, and then Manning goes back to posturing in the media with this new non-report. And then Irsay just has to respond. I thought both men were better than this nonsense.

redviper311
02-04-2012, 09:12 AM
I am pretty irritated with both Manning and Irsay. They took shots at each other via media, then had some sort of meeting to decide not to do that anymore, release their joint statement saying so, and then Manning goes back to posturing in the media with this new non-report. And then Irsay just has to respond. I thought both men were better than this nonsense.

I like that fact that Peyton is fighting to stay. It is he that brought football to a traditional basketball state. At the end of the day you want to see that Peyton still has the fire and fight inside him.

killxswitch
02-04-2012, 07:14 PM
I like that fact that Peyton is fighting to stay. It is he that brought football to a traditional basketball state. At the end of the day you want to see that Peyton still has the fire and fight inside him.

Not like this. He is acting like a teenage girl and I think it's beneath him.

redviper311
02-05-2012, 11:12 AM
I am not sure of his source, but Adam Schefter just reported via twitter that Peyton Manning is willing to create a contract that would contain no guaranteed money up front and would be incentive laden with bonuses.

Now I don't know the legal landscapes of NFL contracts so I don't know if Adam is referring that Manning would consider restructuring his deal with Indy or if Manning was released would he be willing work a contract based on those conditions for his new team to help them out?

redviper311
02-05-2012, 11:59 AM
Found this article on ESPN to go with Adam Schefter's tweet earlier:

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/7543001/peyton-manning-flexible-deal-demands-sources-say?eleven=twelve

So the question I have is can Manning restructure his deal with Indy or can is this option only available to teams once he hits FA?

falloutboy14
02-05-2012, 09:39 PM
They can always renegotiate as long as both parties agree. How much each side wants to bend is the million dollar question.

Prowler
02-06-2012, 03:15 AM
Players can not renegotiate a contract in the same year that they sign one. Meaning that the Colts have to pay the bonus or cut him. Its only for when they cut him, which would wipe out his contract.

redviper311
02-06-2012, 08:26 AM
Players can not renegotiate a contract in the same year that they sign one. Meaning that the Colts have to pay the bonus or cut him. Its only for when they cut him, which would wipe out his contract.

Good to know. So a scenario that could possible happen is that the Peyton and Jim sit down hammer out something then cut Peyton and resign him to a new deal that would better for the team.

Wishful thinking I know but at this point who knows.

Prowler
02-06-2012, 09:38 AM
That's kind of the reason why the whole twitter/ independent medical reports are irritating. I could have seen Peyton coming back next year under that kind of an arrangement, but Irsay's "The Horseshoe is bigger than you" bs is probably shutting that door.

falloutboy14
02-06-2012, 09:57 AM
I'm wondering if Irsay realized he wants to go with Luck, and is trying to politic in that direction.

Prowler
02-06-2012, 10:10 AM
That's what I would bet on. I would kill to have Manning stay for one more year, but the smart money is on them going with Luck. Irsay would have to do one hell of a sell job on Manning now(which I'm pretty sure I could do), but I don't see Irsay as being personable enough to pull it off. I think this is just a clear sign of breaking up.

All he had to do is say, "listen Peyton, I paid you a ton of money last year. You have done so much for this organization. Heck, your contributions alone given our "horseshoe" more meaning than it has ever had in the history of this organization. Thank you. However, I've seen what happened to this organization when you aren't here to lead this team. Its irresponsible of me to not draft Luck and plan ahead for this franchise. I might never be in this position again to guarantee a successor of this caliber for this team. I need to draft him. I can't put blind faith into the health of your neck because it cripples our salary cap and our team was the worst in the league without you. I have to cut you. However, you have been and still are our franchise. I want you leading this team for another year or two. I'm not for sure how this will fully work out, but if you would be willing to stay here and help us teach Luck to be half the QB that you have been for us, then please stay. The details of the contract, playing time, etc are all not that important to me. The only thing that matters is that I want you here and we'll work something out that can get Luck limited exposure in blowout games and prepare him for when you step aside. As long as you are a better option than Luck, then you will start. If you will work with me, I want you to retire a Colt."

Its completely an emotional appeal that is "unrealistically naive" in today's business, but honesty sells. I don't see Irsay saying that, but its what I would advise him to do.

redviper311
02-06-2012, 10:54 AM
That's kind of the reason why the whole twitter/ independent medical reports are irritating. I could have seen Peyton coming back next year under that kind of an arrangement, but Irsay's "The Horseshoe is bigger than you" bs is probably shutting that door.

I think they may can make up and get something done, but with the Irsay's you never know.

redviper311
02-08-2012, 07:27 AM
And the rumor engine keeps churning:

http://www.fannation.com/truth_and_rumors/view/323172-peytons-arm-strength-down-40-percent?eref=fromSI&eref=fromSI

killxswitch
02-08-2012, 10:42 AM
Some players got cut yesterday. Jamie Richard, James Williams (?), and Zac Diles. Nothing terribly noteworthy but at least Richard is finally gone. Can't believe they kept him over Devan. Well, yeah I can. Polian.

redviper311
02-08-2012, 07:06 PM
The Indianapolis Colts have promoted Tom Telesco to vice president of football operations. Telesco has spent the past six seasons as Indy's director of player personnel.

redviper311
02-09-2012, 02:32 PM
A Micheal Lombradi report on Manning:

http://tracking.si.com/2012/02/09/report-peyton-manning-still-unable-to-make-most-throws/?sct=hp_t2_a7&eref=sihp

killxswitch
02-09-2012, 02:40 PM
And then there is a report that Irsay is "pleased" with Manning's throwing. Impossible to know what to believe.

RagingColt
02-09-2012, 04:51 PM
I wouldn't believe much of anything said about Petyon till he meets with Irsay.

redviper311
02-12-2012, 05:00 PM
I don't know how much stock I put into this:

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/02/12/reggie-wayne-hasnt-heard-from-colts-open-to-playing-for-patriots/related/

Prowler
02-12-2012, 05:04 PM
I think he'd be a great fit in New England.

redviper311
02-12-2012, 05:19 PM
I think he'd be a great fit in New England.

Although I couldn't agree more with you, but I would hate to see him in a Patriots jersey considering they are one of three organization cannot stand from top to bottom.

Prowler
02-12-2012, 05:57 PM
Yeah, I really think that we should try and keep him. We have got to have money to spend if we cut Peyton.

killxswitch
02-13-2012, 12:15 AM
Not that much cash. There's still a $10.4 M cap hit even if we cut Peyton. Which is way lower than $17M (and saves Irsay a bunch of actual non-cap cash) but cutting Manning doesn't mean we get to go nuts in free agency. There is no good way to part ways with him unfortunately.

Plus we have all these crap contracts for underperforming vets like Brackett and Clark to deal with. If I remember right cutting Brackett (who has a $7M cap hit) only saves $200K against the cap. But where is he supposed to play in the defense going forward?

falloutboy14
02-21-2012, 07:23 PM
Just realized that the Manning deadline is two weeks from Thursday.

Regarding Brackett, if we keep a 4-3, is he suited to take Wheeler's spot?

I like to think that they'll being in scheme diverse players who can be a part of the new and present defense. I don't think anyone will have a real idea of what the plans are for the defense until free agency starts.

What do people think of Drake Nevis in a 3-4? IMO, he's the best young defender we have that I just don't see fitting into a 3-4.

killxswitch
02-21-2012, 09:59 PM
Just realized that the Manning deadline is two weeks from Thursday.

Regarding Brackett, if we keep a 4-3, is he suited to take Wheeler's spot?

I like to think that they'll being in scheme diverse players who can be a part of the new and present defense. I don't think anyone will have a real idea of what the plans are for the defense until free agency starts.

What do people think of Drake Nevis in a 3-4? IMO, he's the best young defender we have that I just don't see fitting into a 3-4.

I think Nevis could possibly handle 3-4 DE. He's obviously not tall like the prototype. But it would be hard to just dismiss him out of hand, his skillset is too good to not give him a chance. And from Pagano's comments it sounds like they'll run a hybrid of the two so Nevis will probably have chances to play both DT and DE.

killxswitch
02-22-2012, 10:57 PM
Who would you guys pick if, in the 2nd round, you had the choice between Dontari Poe, Alameda Ta'amu, and Devon Still?

MaxV
02-22-2012, 11:11 PM
I would pick Poe. He has similar tools to Ta'amu, but with more consistency.

killxswitch
02-22-2012, 11:23 PM
I would pick Poe. He has similar tools to Ta'amu, but with more consistency.

I'm leaning that way too. Its hard to pass on Still though.

dannyz
02-23-2012, 12:13 AM
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/02/22/colts-permitted-to-sign-luck-as-soon-as-friday/ The Colts can Sign Andrew Luck as soon as Friday once the Draft Order gets Finalized after a Coin Flip. I do that Andrew Luck will get Signed way before the Draft. If they could get him Signed and work out all the Numbers they could see how much they have left for Peyton Manning and all their other FA's.

MaxV
02-23-2012, 07:13 AM
I think he'll hold out.

He might want to see if there are trade options.

MaxV
02-23-2012, 07:24 AM
I'm leaning that way too. Its hard to pass on Still though.

I love this DT class in general.

Even if we wait until the 3rd round, we could still get a solid prospect.

RagingColt
02-23-2012, 04:32 PM
Pagano confirmed the Colts are moving towards a 3-4. They have yet to see Peyton throw a pass yet. I'm quite optimistic about the direction the team is heading towards.

killxswitch
02-27-2012, 01:02 AM
Here's the results of the latest forum mock, with me as GM for the Colts.

http://www.savefans.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2010/01/indianapolis-colts-logo-150x150.jpg http://www.savefans.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2010/01/indianapolis-colts-logo-150x150.jpg http://www.savefans.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2010/01/indianapolis-colts-logo-150x150.jpg

Colts Conclude Defense-Heavy Draft

After selecting Standford quarterback Andrew Luck first overall in this year's draft, the Indianapolis Colts focused on defense the rest of the way. Coach Chuck Pagano's fingerprints were clearly visible with each pick sent to the podium.

Round 1: Andrew Luck - QB - Stanford

Most expected this pick, and indeed the commissioner had not finished speaking before a Colts runner stood to the right of the podium with Lucks name on a pre-printed draft card. Luck was the future QB of the Colts the moment Indy lost to Jacksonville at the end of the 2011 season.

Round 2: Dontari Poe - DT - Memphis

Poe is a massive prospect, at 6'4 and 346 lbs. But even with his monstrous build and solid college reputation, Poe's 44 reps on bench press at the combine impressed even the biggest skeptics. With 32" arms he is slightly squattier than expected, but that matters less for a nosetackle prospect. Coach Pagano understand the importance of talented big men in the middle and will attempt to use Poe in a manner similar to how he used Haloti Ngata in Baltimore.

Round 3: Jared Crick - DL - Nebraska

GM Ryan Grigson continued to build the defensive trenches with this pick. A high-value selection, the Colts took a chance in not selecting a center here. Crick had some productive years both with and without Ndamukong Such next to him at Nebraska, but his final season was cut short due to injury. Crick is able to fit as a 3-4 DE, 4-3 DT, and even a 4-3 power DE, so coaches Pagano and Manusky should be able to move him around in the hybrid scheme Pagano intends to implement.

Round 3: Josh Norman - CB - Coastal Carolina

The Colts turned their attention to the defensive backfield with this pick. Norman is another small-school acquisition. His reported height of 6'2 turned out to actually be 6', but 6' and 200 lbs is still a solid height and weight for a corner. Norman is a man and press coverage corner which signals yet another step away from the Cover 2 zone defense the team previously ran. To obtain this pick the Colts traded away their 4th and 5th round picks to and switched 7th round picks with New Orleans.

Round 5: Derek Wolfe - DL - Cincinnati

The Colts put the final touches on their new defensive line rotation with another versatile pick. Wolfe compares to Crick in size and high-motor playing style, racking up a surprising 9.5 sacks and 21.5 tackles for loss his final year at Cincinnati. Wolfe can play 3-4 DE, 4-3 DT, and even 4-3 power DE and should find a home in the Colts new hybrid scheme. To obtain this pick the Colts traded away their 6th and 7th round picks to Philadelphia. The team still has a compensatory pick at the end of the 7th round.

My big regret is not getting a center for Luck. But the value always seemed to be on a defensive player and it's not like we don't need talent at every spot I picked for.

MaxV
02-27-2012, 07:21 AM
That's a lot of value at DL. Nice. We need that

Prowler
02-27-2012, 05:11 PM
To be fair, the Colts did draft like 3 centers a couple years ago and dline is more important. Wolfe and Poe were steals. I have Poe in the 15-25 range.

Bob Sanders Dreadlock
02-27-2012, 11:12 PM
jizz my pants at the thought of poe and crick. Don't think Poe will be making it to the 2nd round.

killxswitch
02-28-2012, 08:40 AM
Yeah there's no chance the Colts can get Poe at this point. He is going to be a top 15 pick IMO.

MaxV
02-28-2012, 08:57 AM
There will still be a very talented DT prospect there. No doubt.

It is possible that they might draft another position in the 2nd and wait to upgrade DT later in the draft.

We do have plenty of needs.

killxswitch
02-28-2012, 09:05 AM
Yeah the team will and should go BPA at one of the many positions of need. Could be CB, S, WR, DE, DT, etc. Plus who knows what they'll do in free agency. I have no idea what to expect there.

Prowler
02-28-2012, 09:06 AM
I'm thinking that it might be wise to draft some offensive help for Luck. I'm actually thinking Coby Fleener or BPA WR. I don't necessarily like the value, but some kind of token help might be nice. Might even consider Konz to be that help.

killxswitch
02-28-2012, 09:30 AM
I'm thinking that it might be wise to draft some offensive help for Luck. I'm actually thinking Coby Fleener or BPA WR. I don't necessarily like the value, but some kind of token help might be nice. Might even consider Konz to be that help.

If we could get Konz in the 2nd I think that'd be worth it. Way too high for Fleener though.

MaxV
02-28-2012, 09:54 AM
Top priority should be D imo, especially considering a change of scheme.

killxswitch
02-28-2012, 10:22 AM
Top priority should be D imo, especially considering a change of scheme.

I generally agree, but I think if the Colts can get either Konz or Ben Jones in the draft they should do it. We don't want Luck to start his career switching from one center to the next.

Prowler
02-28-2012, 10:34 AM
I agree that the D and specifically the dline probably needs about 4 draft picks, but Luck will be under immense pressure. We need to make sure that he is helped as much as possible. It won't be easy to follow a legend. I do expect an early rough patch, but I would like to make sure that his confidence doesn't take too much of a beating. A familiar outlet to check down to would be a nice confidence booster/saver.

Dallas Clark doesn't really fit into my long term plans and his salary can be dumped.

MaxV
02-28-2012, 10:41 AM
I guess I just don't view interior OL as a premium position. Although, Colts' recent struggles on the line have shown that filling those positions isn't all that easy.

But I really want to get a stud DT, CB and Saf.

killxswitch
02-28-2012, 10:42 AM
I agree that the D and specifically the dline probably needs about 4 draft picks, but Luck will be under immense pressure. We need to make sure that he is helped as much as possible. It won't be easy to follow a legend. I do expect an early rough patch, but I would like to make sure that his confidence doesn't take too much of a beating. A familiar outlet to check down to would be a nice confidence booster/saver.

Dallas Clark doesn't really fit into my long term plans and his salary can be dumped.

I want to get rid of Clark too but cutting him isn't worth it til next year. It would only net a $1.74M savings which means $5.58M in dead cap space.

Cutting him next year would save $5.33M.

chad72
02-28-2012, 02:38 PM
Getting a pure 3-4 NT is harder, re-signing him is harder, and getting him to play at that high level is also harder. Unless we have a Ngata in the draft that will fall to No.34, a pure 3-4 is out of question to build in 1-2 years. Ngata was the player that made the Pagano hybrid tick. We don't have that kind of player in the draft (closest is Poe), and unless we make a play for Paul Soliai in free agency, I still believe a 1-gap 3-4 makes more sense.

If Pagano plays a hybrid, I would like him to play the Wade Philips 1-gap 3-4 for the 3-4 portion of the 3-4/4-3 hybrid.

That way, you can use athletic NTs like Nevis (like a Jay Ratliff who is even lighter and so are the Houston Texans NTs), and draft someone like Brandon Thompson at No.34 to play behind Nevis in the 3-4 1-gap NT rotation, the goal will be to disrupt 1 gap and Nevis does that really well. Then, when they use the 4-3 fronts, the 1-gap style remains and there is less confusion and less of a learning curve for a LOT of the defensive players, IMO.

The key is getting the DEs that will have to play 2-gap. J.J.Watt and Antonio Smith for the Texans were outstanding there. If Pagano can bring in Cory Redding from the Ravens, that would be a huge plus for 3-4 DE. Anderson, more than Brayton, can be a good 2-gap 3-4 DE, IMO.

Conner and Angerer can be SILB and WILB for that kind of 3-4, with Freeney, Mathis, Hughes and Wheeler all OLBs.

Dontari Poe, the best pure 3-4 NT, will be gone, and will not see the second half of round 1, based on his combine performance.

Prowler
02-28-2012, 03:25 PM
Beautiful post. Brandon Thompson would be a great pick. I'm expecting some draft day trading too. I think we're going to be jettisoning and vulturing from teams all through that weekend.

Seamus2602
02-28-2012, 07:02 PM
Getting a pure 3-4 NT is harder, re-signing him is harder, and getting him to play at that high level is also harder. Unless we have a Ngata in the draft that will fall to No.34, a pure 3-4 is out of question to build in 1-2 years. Ngata was the player that made the Pagano hybrid tick. We don't have that kind of player in the draft (closest is Poe), and unless we make a play for Paul Soliai in free agency, I still believe a 1-gap 3-4 makes more sense.

If Pagano plays a hybrid, I would like him to play the Wade Philips 1-gap 3-4 for the 3-4 portion of the 3-4/4-3 hybrid.

That way, you can use athletic NTs like Nevis (like a Jay Ratliff who is even lighter and so are the Houston Texans NTs), and draft someone like Brandon Thompson at No.34 to play behind Nevis in the 3-4 1-gap NT rotation, the goal will be to disrupt 1 gap and Nevis does that really well. Then, when they use the 4-3 fronts, the 1-gap style remains and there is less confusion and less of a learning curve for a LOT of the defensive players, IMO.

The key is getting the DEs that will have to play 2-gap. J.J.Watt and Antonio Smith for the Texans were outstanding there. If Pagano can bring in Cory Redding from the Ravens, that would be a huge plus for 3-4 DE. Anderson, more than Brayton, can be a good 2-gap 3-4 DE, IMO.

Conner and Angerer can be SILB and WILB for that kind of 3-4, with Freeney, Mathis, Hughes and Wheeler all OLBs.

Dontari Poe, the best pure 3-4 NT, will be gone, and will not see the second half of round 1, based on his combine performance.

The problem is that Pagano has no history of coaching the one gap 3-4 while Manusky has only limited experience coaching it. The majority of their coaching comes from the traditional 2 Gap 3-4 or in the Ryan 3-4 (which uses 2 Gap principles with their front 3). Compared to the Texans where they had the best Defensive Coordinator in the league who not only happens to coach the 1 Gap but his da invented it. It also is one of the most complex defenses in the NFL today and has a massive learning curve. That is testament to the job that Wade Phillips has done this year for the Texans. He was able to teach a team how to play one of the most complex defenses in an off season shortened by the lockout. It was one of the singularly most impressive coaching achievements ever done. To ask guys who have little history in coaching that system to be able to do it in a short space of time is just pie in the sky material.

The Colts aren't going to turn things around in 1-2 years. The roster is in that bad a shape. You really could be talking 3-4 of solid building.

chad72
03-02-2012, 09:36 AM
The problem is that Pagano has no history of coaching the one gap 3-4 while Manusky has only limited experience coaching it. The majority of their coaching comes from the traditional 2 Gap 3-4 or in the Ryan 3-4 (which uses 2 Gap principles with their front 3). Compared to the Texans where they had the best Defensive Coordinator in the league who not only happens to coach the 1 Gap but his da invented it. It also is one of the most complex defenses in the NFL today and has a massive learning curve. That is testament to the job that Wade Phillips has done this year for the Texans. He was able to teach a team how to play one of the most complex defenses in an off season shortened by the lockout. It was one of the singularly most impressive coaching achievements ever done. To ask guys who have little history in coaching that system to be able to do it in a short space of time is just pie in the sky material.

The Colts aren't going to turn things around in 1-2 years. The roster is in that bad a shape. You really could be talking 3-4 of solid building.

True, but Manusky did coach the 1-gap 3-4 at San Fran and San Diego recently though his record was not as stellar. It is all about the personnel, IMO. San Fran gained a lot of pieces in free agency on D that vaulted them to the NFCCG, happened right after Manusky left. San Diego lost a lot of players on D, especially LBs (some ironically to San Fran) when Manusky had his 1 year stint.

Ultimately, the right pieces are more important than the right scheme. But I personally do not think the 1-gap 3-4 is as complicated to teach if you draft the right pieces. Granted, Wade Philips does it better than anyone else but Manusky, if Grigson and Pagano can get the right pieces, can turn it around in a couple of years.

killxswitch
03-02-2012, 09:41 AM
A one gap 3-4 would be exciting but that isn't Pagano's defense. I'm guessing hybrid D like in Baltimore is what we should expect.

Seamus2602
03-02-2012, 12:15 PM
True, but Manusky did coach the 1-gap 3-4 at San Fran and San Diego recently though his record was not as stellar. It is all about the personnel, IMO. San Fran gained a lot of pieces in free agency on D that vaulted them to the NFCCG, happened right after Manusky left. San Diego lost a lot of players on D, especially LBs (some ironically to San Fran) when Manusky had his 1 year stint.

Ultimately, the right pieces are more important than the right scheme. But I personally do not think the 1-gap 3-4 is as complicated to teach if you draft the right pieces. Granted, Wade Philips does it better than anyone else but Manusky, if Grigson and Pagano can get the right pieces, can turn it around in a couple of years.

He mostly coached the 2-Gap with the 49ers.

Personnel is important but the Colts are as close to an effective 1 Gap 3-4 as they are to an effective 2 Gap 3-4 (personnel wise). Maybe only Drake Nevis and Ricardo Matthews would benefit from the 1 Gap. Instead if they run the 2-Gap they get a defense that both the HC and the DC have extensive experience, which benefits them all. Part of it is personnel, part of it is teaching, part of it is leadership and part of it is playcalling. If the Colts go to the 1 Gap they lose a lot in teaching and playcalling only to gain a minor improvement with regards to personnel.

MaxV
03-07-2012, 07:20 AM
Well, that's it.

I was hoping that Peyton would retire as a Colt, but unfortunately, that won't happen.

It'll be very weird to see him in another team's uniform.

killxswitch
03-07-2012, 08:05 AM
Well, that's it.

I was hoping that Peyton would retire as a Colt, but unfortunately, that won't happen.

It'll be very weird to see him in another team's uniform.

He will sign a one day contract and retire a Colt. Unless he wins 2+ SBs with his new team. Which would be the cause of mass suicide amongst Colts fans.

MaxV
03-07-2012, 08:07 AM
He will sign a one day contract and retire a Colt. Unless he wins 2+ SBs with his new team. Which would be the cause of mass suicide amongst Colts fans.

As long as they are squeezed between Luck's 10 SBs with the Colts, I would be fine with that.

killxswitch
03-07-2012, 08:13 AM
I am also concerned about the amount of pressure Luck is going to face. He was already really overhyped but having to replace Peyton Manning as a rookie, with so many fans angry that Manning is leaving, with very little talent to throw to, is not a great situation at all.

RCAChainGang
03-07-2012, 09:57 AM
Grieving process begins. :/

redviper311
03-08-2012, 07:53 PM
What a great piece written by Rick Reilly on ESPN.com entitled "Thanks for the memories". Toward the end I nearly teared up. Thanks Peyton for all you gave to the Colts!


http://espn.go.com/espn/story/_/id/7660415/thanks-memories-peyton-manning

killxswitch
03-08-2012, 10:48 PM
What a great piece written by Rick Reilly on ESPN.com entitled "Thanks for the memories". Toward the end I nearly teared up. Thanks Peyton for all you gave to the Colts!


http://espn.go.com/espn/story/_/id/7660415/thanks-memories-peyton-manning

Yep that was a good one.

killxswitch
03-09-2012, 09:41 AM
Ugh now we're trying to trade Freeney. I understand. But I hate it. He is my favorite player.

MaxV
03-09-2012, 10:09 AM
I wouldn't mind trading Clark if we get a solid return.

I think Tamme is pretty good and can replace him.

killxswitch
03-09-2012, 10:12 AM
I wouldn't mind trading Clark if we get a solid return.

I think Tamme is pretty good and can replace him.

Tamme is a free agent. I'm not sure the Colts should pay him big money to stay. I would like to trade Clark though, for sure. We really just need to dump big contracts. Clark, Brackett, Bullitt, Addai. Take the cap hit now because 2012 will suck regardless. We will have a much better shot at winning in 2013.

Prowler
03-09-2012, 10:23 AM
Should shop Freeney to the Bears. I think I remember them having a decent amount of cap space and they are the best schematic fit for him. He'd have to agree to a long term extension because nobody will touch a $20m cap hit or whatever it is, but the Bears would love a few seasons of Freeney and Peppers together.

killxswitch
03-09-2012, 10:43 AM
Should shop Freeney to the Bears. I think I remember them having a decent amount of cap space and they are the best schematic fit for him. He'd have to agree to a long term extension because nobody will touch a $20m cap hit or whatever it is, but the Bears would love a few seasons of Freeney and Peppers together.

His cap hit for the Colts is ~$19 million, but about $14 million of that is straight salary. So the Colts would absorb $5M in dead cap (and save the other $14 million) and the new team would either inherit the $14M salary or, much more likely, come to a new agreement with Freeney. Actually the new contract will probably be a stipulation in the trade, which means Freeney will have a say in where he goes. We won't have many trade partners but I imagine the Bears would be one of the few. Maybe also the Bengals, Broncos if they get a QB, Falcons, Saints, Rams, Titans, Dolphins if they get a QB, Seahawks if they get a QB.

falloutboy14
03-09-2012, 11:12 AM
I kind of want to keep Addai. I think he can be great in the Kevin Faulk role. Plus, Luck does need someone reliable to throw to, considering we're talking about moving Clark & letting Garcon walk. A 3rd for Clark and I'm happy. If we can't get a 4th, might as well keep him.

http://espn.go.com/blog/afcsouth/post/_/id/34913/the-titans-should-chase-dwight-freeney

Paul Kuharsky suggests the Titans trade pick #20 for him. Which would be about the best we could hope for. That puts us in range of Konz/Glenn/Barron, or one of the first round DTs. It wouldn't be the end of the world to take Ta'amu there either.

killxswitch
03-09-2012, 11:14 AM
I kind of want to keep Addai. I think he can be great in the Kevin Faulk role. Plus, Luck does need someone reliable to throw to, considering we're talking about moving Clark & letting Garcon walk. A 3rd for Clark and I'm happy. If we can't get a 4th, might as well keep him.

http://espn.go.com/blog/afcsouth/post/_/id/34913/the-titans-should-chase-dwight-freeney

Paul Kuharsky suggests the Titans trade pick #20 for him. Which would be about the best we could hope for. That puts us in range of Konz/Glenn/Barron, or one of the first round DTs. It wouldn't be the end of the world to take Ta'amu there either.

I don't want to lose Freeney but getting the Titan's 1st rounder would be marvelous. I think it's completely unrealistic, but I like Kuharsky so maybe it isn't.

Addai just costs too much compared to what he offers.

falloutboy14
03-09-2012, 11:39 AM
Who was the DE the bucs took in the 2nd round last year? He was a top 10 pick but had that bad knee issue where no one was certain how long he'd last. Bowers?

I think Freeney could compare to that situation. Top talent but limited window to play.

edit a few hours later:
Addai, Bullet, Clark, Brackett are out. I hope they tried to shop some of these guys, as I think some could've gotten late round picks. Going to be a new look Colts team next year.

RagingColt
03-09-2012, 10:31 PM
Think it would be best to rough out in 2012 and be set to have the $ and a few draft picks for 2013 to the point where the team starts to have talent suited around the new schemes. The Manning era has ended. We need to comprehend that and deal with it. Addai is best suited to be a #2 back at this point in his career as he's not healthy enough to be a number 1. Kinda wish they'd kept Dallas for a year but so be it. Bullet was a lousy resigning by the Polian clan so I won't miss him. Grateful he made the tackle on 4th &2 but let's move on.

RCAChainGang
03-10-2012, 01:29 AM
Alright I have no idea how the new defense is. What are the traits of the players to fill each position. For instance is Mathis gonna be an OLB along with Hughes and have Angerer as a MLB? What is the difference in corner skill sets? A link to or explanation of the breakdown of the different positions would be great.

falloutboy14
03-10-2012, 08:48 AM
http://www.ninersnation.com/2010/3/24/1386195/football-university-the-3-4-defense

4-3 DTs translate to 3-4 DEs
4-3 DEs translate to 3-4 OLBs
4-3 LBs translate to 3-4 inside linebackers
Secondary guys are generally unaffected.

In more detail, in a 2-gap 3-4 (I believe every 3-4 except Wade Phillips is a 2-gap), the 3 defensive linemen are responsibe for 2 gaps. The NT is responsible for the holes between the center and guards. The DEs are responsible for the hole on either side of the tackle. So in effect, most running lanes are ideally taken care of by the D-line (not including tight-ends) and LBs are there to make the tackles.

As far as body types, NT should be 330+, (Wilfork, Hampton, Raji, Terrance Cody etc). They're generally shorter around 6' so O-linemen can't get leverage underneath them. He takes on the Center and should be good enough to require a double-team every play. If he's not doing his job right, that means the guards are hitting our LBs and running lanes are wide open. Which is sort of what we're used to.

DEs are around 300 pounds. Remember, they need to control the offensive tackle, not get past him. If the RB goes past either side of the tackle, the DE needs to be able to tackle him. So long arms are helpful so the DE can reach the tackle better then the tackle can reach him. Being able to move from side-to-side is good for outside running plays.

OLBs are fairly straight forward, they're 4-3 DEs but slightly smaller. At times they'll need to drop into coverage, so being able to back-pedal and do all of that is helpful. Generally they cover any outside running plays, and rush the passer.

ILBs play cleanup on any inside running play. If one or both guards are not occupied by the NT, they have to be able to stand their ground against a guard. I believe Angerer/Wheeler should be an ok size for this. Brackett would've been too small though.

As far as positions of importance, the NT is the key to the whole thing. DEs are important against the run, OLBs are important as blitzers against the pass.

Sloopy
03-10-2012, 04:22 PM
I was asked to post some info about Chucky's defense/personnel grouping :) I'll do my best:

It's difficult to say whether or not Chucky will bring the same system/personnel grouping that was in place in in Baltimore to the Colts. The personnel was in place already when he came to the Colts as well as the system, however he did add a little bit more in terms of blitzing.

I will assume that he will use the same system and personnel grouping in this explanation.

The way fallout put it is somewhat right but it's a little more complicated than that.

Positions:

The traditional 3-4 DE is tall (about 6'5" or higher) weighing upwards of 280 lbs. Assuming Chuck brings in the same system he will be a little more lenient on height but will require them to be slightly heavier than the average 3-4 DE, with the ideal being +300 Lbs.

The NT can also be shorter than most NT's (as short as 6'0") but the bigger the better (Gregg was 320 Lbs and probably the lightest they would go)

The DL needs to be heavier than the average DL as he requires more athletic Lbs than the average 3-4. Inability to take on and shed blocks will be forgiven if one can can drop back into coverage and cover TE's. In turn, the DEs need to be able to force double teams as well.

For example; a run to the right side should require the LG and C to double team the NT and RG and RT to double team the LDE to push him out of the gap. The LT will take on the RDE and hold him off long enough for the run to go by him. This allows the LBs to flow freely in the defensive backfield. (This is the ideal)

- I will break the LBs down into four separate sections as they all have their own niche:

- WLB (Suggs): This is probably the most important position other than NT in this defense. This is the hybrid DE/LB and will account for a great deal of your pass rush (Nickel and Dime situations will call for situational pass rushers to add more pass rush). Furthermore, this position will need to be able to drop back in coverage as well as aid in run defense, sealing the edge. The truest definition of a jack of all trades but he better be a master of more than one. I'm assuming this will be where Mathis is played although he will have to do much more than rush the passer. I imagine this will be a stop gap and a player will be found to replace him in the next draft relegating Mathis to pass rush specialist in his later years (I really don't see anyone other than MAYBE Ingram who has the potential to play this position in the draft)

- SLB (Johnson): This is more of a traditional 4-3 OLB and will predominantly responsible for attacking the LOS in run support. Needs to be big and stong to seal the edge on the strong side. Dropping back into coverage will also be important and will provide secondary pass rush.

- RILB (Lewis): I wouldn't be worried about finding a Ray Lewis type player for this position. Obviously having Lewis on your D helps in any situation but the defense is not predicated on this guy and WLB is probably more important to have a star at. IMO the switch to a 3-4 in Bal was actually an attempt to relieve some of the pressure on an aging Lewis.

Regardless, this position is your athletic backer and should be a similar player type to a WLB in a 4-3. Basically should be able to cover the TE and impact the run game. He will be responsible for one of the A gaps and at most should only have to fight off a FB if the DL is doing their job.

- LILB (McClain): This is your big thumper type and probably the most prototypical 3-4 defender. Predominantly a run stuffer and should be able to at least provide some short zone coverage. Should be able to provide some secondary pass rush up the middle. The least important of the LB positions and it is possible to have a rotation of guys at this position.

- The secondary will be less affected although Chucky will prefer bigger CBs who can line up in man coverage with receivers and press them at the LOS.

The strong side safety typically is used in run support and minimal coverage. Should be able to blitz effectively as Chuck likes to mix up who he is blitzing.

4-3:

This change is quite simple. For the most part, the DL will shift towards the strong side of the line allowing the WLB to lineup off the shoulder of the DE (most often with their hand in the dirt)

The SLB will become an OLB and usually then whichever ILB is prefered outside will move to the outside.

Same can occur with the SLB putting their hand in the dirt if preferred although the WLB often does so if it is believed to be a pass rush situation.

Free Agency:

Would like to see the Colts pick up Zibi and Jarret Johnson in FA as they are pretty much prototypes of their positions in the system. (Johnson was probably one of the best players on our defense that no one talked about).

Courtland Finnegan would be another ideal signing if at all possible (not as likely as the others)

Team Layout:

Assuming those signings and my mock draft:

CB --------- FS ---- SS ----- CB
Norman - Bethea - Zibi - Finnegan

WLB --------- LILB ---------- RILB ---------- SLB
Mathis - Someone else - someone else - Johnson

RDE --------------- NT ---- LDE
Someone else - Ta'amu - Wolfe

- I think Powers might be the only suitable CB on your roster and even he would probably be relegated to a nickel/dime type role.

- Kavell Conner might have the athleticism to play inside, possibly LILB. Sims is another option at RILB if he is back although I wouldn't put any money on Sims working out anywhere. Other than that I am not really sure where they intend to find these types of players.

- Ricardo Mathews and Antonio Johnson probably have builds to play DE in the system although I question their ability to creates double teams as well as their functional strength.

- Nevis looks like a sunken pick although he might be useful in nickel situations. This may be true for some of the other DTs as well

- Jamaal Anderson is also likely a lost cause. Same goes for Tyler Brayton, both likely to be let go in FA

- Interestingly enough, Jerry Hughes may find new life in the system as he fits the build and athletic ability to play OLB; although, I won't cross my fingers. Marrio Addison may also be of some service.

I am almost certain that every pick other than the first overall will be used on defense and some serious FA spending is probably in order as well.

In the end, this will not be an easy process nor will it be a speedy one. Look for the transformation to happen over a # of years and pray you don't miss on too many draft picks.

I hope this helped and didn't make you want to jump off a cliff too much.

RCAChainGang
03-10-2012, 10:04 PM
I'm trying to get a list of free agents. This is what I got. Let me know if some have been resigned/signed by other teams.

RB
Jerome Felton, RB, Age: 25 No Idea.

WR
Reggie Wayne, WR, Age: 33 Good as gone.
Pierre Garcon, WR, Age: 25 Maybe get him back?
Anthony Gonzalez, WR, Age: 27 Only for cheap.

TE
Jacob Tamme, TE, Age: 26 Hopefully get a reasonable contract.
Anthony Hill, TE, Age: 27 No idea.

OL
Jeff Saturday, C, Age: 36 I'm actually thinking he'll walk or retire.
Ryan Diem, OT, Age: 32 Maybe if it is cheap, otherwise he's gone.
Mike Pollack, OG/C, Age: 27 Hopefully get something nailed down with him.
Jamie Richard, C, Age: 27 Not sure if he is worth it at this point.
Quinn Ojinnaka, OT, Age: 27 No idea.

DL
Eric Foster, DT, Age: 26 Really like this guy not sure if he fits new scheme.
Jamaal Anderson, DE, Age: 26 Heard he would be a good 3-4 DE hopefully we sign him.
Tyler Brayton, DE, Age: 32 No idea.

LB
Phillip Wheeler, LB, Age: 27 Not sure, but maybe ILB?
Ernie Simms, LB, Age: 27 Not sure how he would fit.
Kevin Bentley, LB, Age: 32 No idea.

DB
Jacob Lacey, CB, Age: 24 Hopefully sign him to cheap contract he is a good nickel or dime.
Stevie Brown, DB, Age: 24 No idea.
David Caldwell, DB, Age: 24 No idea.

Yeah my evaluations aren't really all that great. I mostly just want to see who you guys think will stay and go. If they stay (on defense) what position do they fit?

killxswitch
03-10-2012, 10:45 PM
I'm trying to get a list of free agents. This is what I got. Let me know if some have been resigned/signed by other teams.

RB
Jerome Felton, RB, Age: 25 No Idea.

I believe Felton was one of the FBs. He did fine, nothing amazing.

WR
Reggie Wayne, WR, Age: 33 Good as gone.
Pierre Garcon, WR, Age: 25 Maybe get him back? I think he'll test the market and then come back to Indy.
Anthony Gonzalez, WR, Age: 27 Only for cheap. He was told by the Colts his contract would not be renewed.

TE
Jacob Tamme, TE, Age: 26 Hopefully get a reasonable contract. I think he's gone.
Anthony Hill, TE, Age: 27 No idea. Me neither.

OL
Jeff Saturday, C, Age: 36 I'm actually thinking he'll walk or retire.
Ryan Diem, OT, Age: 32 Maybe if it is cheap, otherwise he's gone. Time to let his guy go, he hasn't been good since 2007
Mike Pollack, OG/C, Age: 27 Hopefully get something nailed down with him.Nah, he sucks, his effort is so inconsistent.
Jamie Richard, C, Age: 27 Not sure if he is worth it at this point. He sucks.
Quinn Ojinnaka, OT, Age: 27 No idea. A swing tackle like Charlie Johnson but better. I hope they keep him around.

DL
Eric Foster, DT, Age: 26 Really like this guy not sure if he fits new scheme.With his injury he may never play again. He is the new Montae Reagor.
Jamaal Anderson, DE, Age: 26 Heard he would be a good 3-4 DE hopefully we sign him. He's never played 3-4 DE but has the body type and play style. I hope they keep him.
Tyler Brayton, DE, Age: 32 No idea. Gone, nothing special.

LB
Phillip Wheeler, LB, Age: 27 Not sure, but maybe ILB? More of a backup OLB IMO. He was a rush LB in college.
Ernie Simms, LB, Age: 27 Not sure how he would fit.Meh, probably gone.
Kevin Bentley, LB, Age: 32 No idea.

DB
Jacob Lacey, CB, Age: 24 Hopefully sign him to cheap contract he is a good nickel or dime. Vet minimum. He is just a guy.
Stevie Brown, DB, Age: 24 No idea.
David Caldwell, DB, Age: 24 No idea. [b]He can lay a hit but he has poor instincts. Doesn't do well in space. I don't think he'll stick.

Yeah my evaluations aren't really all that great. I mostly just want to see who you guys think will stay and go. If they stay (on defense) what position do they fit?

Thoughts in bold.

falloutboy14
03-13-2012, 09:22 PM
Reggie signed a 3 year 17.5m contract with the Colts. Seems he wasn't getting what he hoped, and the Colts didn't seem so bad. As prepared as I was for him to walk, I'm glad he's back. Luck needs to have a reliable guy. Plus I bet Luck could pick Wayne's brain quite a bit.


Also Garcon to Redskins, 5 years 42.5m, 21 guaranteed. Glad he got payed, and at that rate, glad it wasn't us.

RagingColt
03-13-2012, 10:10 PM
Surpised that Reggie stayed on for the Luck era. Still expect Indy to draft a WR or at least sign a vet in FA. It was rumored that Cory Redding from Baltimore was in Indy today. Might be a decent enough signing to help in the transition on D.

I view Garcon as a #2 receiver and no more for us. Should he become more consistent he should become a good target for RG III in DC.

killxswitch
03-13-2012, 11:05 PM
It is great to have Wayne back, and at such a reasonable price. That is awesome. Luck will be so much better off having an experienced guy with great hands and routes like him.

As for Garcon, screw him. Go play for a bunch of money with a bunch of losers, good luck with that.

Prowler
03-14-2012, 04:08 AM
Thank god. After seeing the opinions of other team's fans of Reggie Wayne, the Colts were his best fit. He'll be loved and depended upon here. Plus, there are now three worthwhile jerseys to have: Luck, Wayne, and Mathis.

redviper311
03-14-2012, 04:13 AM
Had the Colts not resigned Wayne and let him go in free agency, Manning's successor would have come into Indy with just Austin Collie, Quan Cosby, Jarred Fayson, Jeremy Ross and Blair White as the only receivers on the roster. So I have to say this is a great re-sigining. Not to mention alot more cap friendly compared to Garcon's deal that he inked in Washington.

MaxV
03-14-2012, 05:49 AM
Yeah, this is a good deal. Hopefully, Reggie helps Luck develop into a star.

This makes a WR a lesser need. We should still try to get a talented young player, but now it doesnt have to be early.

killxswitch
03-14-2012, 08:12 AM
Yeah, this is a good deal. Hopefully, Reggie helps Luck develop into a star.

This makes a WR a lesser need. We should still try to get a talented young player, but now it doesnt have to be early.

I think we need to find some speed somewhere. Someone to play the Garcon role even if he doesn't get a ton of balls thrown his way, need to make sure the safeties stay back at least some of the time.

RagingColt
03-14-2012, 08:43 PM
Colts swap 6th round picks with the Eagles for Winton Justice. At worst he provides depth on the O-Line and at best moves into the starter role at RT and pushes Ijalana moves inside to Guard. Low risk high reward type of move on Grigson's part.

http://www.indystar.com/article/20120314/SPORTS03/120314024/Colts-acquire-tackle-Winston-Justice-from-Eagles

We also signed DE Cory Redding to a 3 year deal. It's a short term building block that will help in the transition.

http://www.indystar.com/article/20120314/SPORTS03/120314027/DE-Cory-Redding-Colts-agree-3-year-10-5-million-deal

MaxV
03-14-2012, 09:32 PM
Love the Redding signing.

Justice? I don't know. But that's not a lot to give up for him. And I'm assuming Grigson knows him pretty well.

killxswitch
03-14-2012, 11:13 PM
A starting OL of Castonzo/Reitz/???/Ijalana/Justice isn't too shabby at all. I just wonder who our center is going to be. My guess is AQ Shippley gets a shot. I liked him as a prospect but he hasn't done anything, that's for sure.

Kirkpatrick looked good in preseason, maybe he'll do something.

Just no Jeff Faine.

MaxV
03-14-2012, 11:19 PM
Wait, when did my boy Shipley sign with Indy?

Heck yeah, he has a shot.

killxswitch
03-15-2012, 08:02 AM
Wait, when did my boy Shipley sign with Indy?

Heck yeah, he has a shot.

Grigs signed him to a future contract a month or so ago.

MaxV
03-16-2012, 03:03 PM
Colts agree to terms with SS Tom Zbikowski.

http://www.kffl.com/gnews.php?id=775617-colts-tom-zbikowski-agrees-to-terms

Interesting signing.

killxswitch
03-16-2012, 03:31 PM
Meh. I'm not excited but as long as it isn't a big contract it probably helps special teams and if they can't find a better starter he is an ok stopgap.

redviper311
03-16-2012, 10:41 PM
Agent Ralph Cindrich claims there is no agreement between Zbikowski and the Colts.

RagingColt
03-17-2012, 02:45 PM
Agent Ralph Cindrich claims there is no agreement between Zbikowski and the Colts.

Looks official to me. The team has a story on the signing.

http://www.colts.com/news/article-1/COLTS-SIGN-S-TOM-ZBIKOWSKI/03abae68-e4ac-4d63-ab01-3d08977c756c

killxswitch
03-17-2012, 04:05 PM
Looks official to me. The team has a story on the signing.

http://www.colts.com/news/article-1/COLTS-SIGN-S-TOM-ZBIKOWSKI/03abae68-e4ac-4d63-ab01-3d08977c756c

Coach Pags even talked about it. Not sure what game his agent is playing.

RCAChainGang
03-17-2012, 10:58 PM
I just can't freaking stand the Colts fans around the world right now. They don't understand that cutting players is best for the team. It pisses me off. Like for instance...

So, the plan is to become a contender with other teams' castoffs? We'll see . . .

Just shut up already!!! Just get off the internet.

RagingColt
03-17-2012, 11:30 PM
It's not like the players cut were all world in the last two seasons. Most were hurt or under performing to a degree. Most would not fit in with the new schemes regardless. Sure they were part of the core that led us to two super bowls, but those days are long since past. Accept that we're starting over from the remnants of a 2-14 team and going from there. Any other actions would not make any sense right now. The team at best will be picking in the top 10 next year but we should have room in the cap to sign a few decent FA and continue to draft players for the 3-4.

By year three or so we should be at or around 8-8 or better. Not like the Titans or Jags are improving by leaps and bounds in the division.

Seamus2602
03-19-2012, 09:13 AM
If you ever want sobering reading and evidence the team aren't going to be great next year:

Here are my list of the teams needs.

Short term Needs

Starting Quarterback
Depth Quarterback
Depth Running Back
Starting Wide Receiver
Starting Tight End
Depth Tight End
Starting Right Tackle
Starting Left Guard
Starting Center
Starting Nose Tackle
Starting Defensive End
Starting Defensive End
Depth Outside Linebacker
Starting Inside Linebacker
Depth Inside Linebacker
Starting Cornerback
Depth Cornerback
Starting Strong Safety

Medium term Needs – This will obviously change depending on other soon to be Free Agents in the next few years, such as Powers, Collie etc. or if the team cut or trade Freeney

Starting Outside Linebacker (to replace Dwight Freeney)
Starting Place Kicker (to replace Adam Vinateiri)
Starting Long Snapper (to replace Justin Snow)

Long term Needs – Veteran players on long term deals who will need to be replaced by the end of their deals

Starting Wide Receiver (to replace Reggie Wayne)
Starting Outside Linebacker (to repalce Robert Mathis)

falloutboy14
03-19-2012, 09:29 AM
I'm hopeful that Hughes can fulfill the 3-4 OLB role. He has to be good at something right?

Do you have Ijalana at RG?
Also, Cory Redding should take one of the starting DE spots. No idea what are DTs can do at DE, so I think they'll give them a try and see what fits.

Seamus2602
03-19-2012, 09:49 AM
I'm hopeful that Hughes can fulfill the 3-4 OLB role. He has to be good at something right?

Do you have Ijalana at RG?
Also, Cory Redding should take one of the starting DE spots. No idea what are DTs can do at DE, so I think they'll give them a try and see what fits.

I am hopeful that Hughes can provide the depth at Outside Linebacker and possible mold into a starter but until he does it I'm going to assume he won't. The same has to be said for Fili Moala, who is more suited for the 3-4 than the 4-3.

I do have Ijalana at Guard.

Cory Redding will be a decent stopgap at Defensive End and will be a good rotation player but he isn't going to be anything special. He will do for now but the team could upgrade the position.

killxswitch
03-19-2012, 11:10 AM
Some thoughts:


Short term Needs

Starting Quarterback - Andrew Luck
Depth Quarterback - veteran
Depth Running Back - Nah, we have Brown, Carter, and Evans
Starting Wide Receiver - Hoping for Hill or Streeter in the draft
Starting Tight End - No idea on this one
Depth Tight End - Eldridge and a nobody will be fine
Starting Right Tackle - Winston Justice will be fine
Starting Left Guard - Agreed
Starting Center - Agreed
Starting Nose Tackle - Very much agreed, why are we not talking to Aubrayo Franklin, Antonio Garay, or even Shaun Rogers?
Starting Defensive End - We just got Cory Redding
Starting Defensive End - Nevis or Moala will start, I feel good about DE
Depth Outside Linebacker - If we re-sign Philip Wheeler he and Jerry Hughes will be fine for depth, maybe one more guy for special teams.
Starting Inside Linebacker - Not sure Conner can play this, maybe Audie Cole in the draft?
Depth Inside Linebacker - for sure.
Starting Cornerback - I'm hoping Janoris Jenkins falls to us in round 2
Depth Cornerback - Yeah. Really I think Powers should be the nickel corner, he's good but fragile. Can't count on him as a starter.
Starting Strong Safety - Harrison Smith in the 3rd, maybe?

Medium term Needs Ė This will obviously change depending on other Free Agents in the next few years, such as Powers, Collie etc.

Starting Outside Linebacker (to replace Dwight Freeney) - Next year's draft? Or maybe Jerry Hughes suddenly develops?
Starting Place Kicker (to replace Adam Vinateiri) - I think he should be cut this year personally.
Starting Long Snapper (to replace Justin Snow)

Long term Needs Ė Veteran players on long term deals who will need to be replaced by the end of their deals

Starting Wide Receiver (to replace Reggie Wayne)
Starting Outside Linebacker (to repalce Robert Mathis) - I hope the system is put into place solidly enough that this can be a home-grown player so we don't have to sink tons of money into both positions.

Seamus2602
03-19-2012, 01:49 PM
I think Brown, Carter and Evans will provide a decent rotaiton. I would like to see the team sign a 3rd down style back to take some of the snaps that Addai would have taken. The other thing that makes me question this unit is that Pagano wants to go very much so to a between the tackles running style which will suit Carter (if he can hold onto the ball) but maybe not Brown or Evans as much.

Justice is decent but nothing special and we got away with that type of play for the last while but if we want Luck to not be punch drunk then we could do with an upgrade over him. I would be happy with Justice as depth but not as the starter, at least in the long term.

In terms of the Defensive Ends my problem is that we have two or three guys to rotate at End (Moala, Redding and Matthews). None of them are particularly great. I liked the Redding signing because he will be good in a rotation and knows the system but I'm not going to pretend that he's going to be a dominant 5/6 Tech and until Moala shows that he can be I'm not going to assume that he'll be a dominant 5 Tech.

I don't know what they are doing with the Nose Tackle position. The only thing I can think of is that a) they already are talking to those guys and others (Brandon McKinney played for Pagano last year) or b) they are confident of finding someone in the draft.

I like Wheeler in the Jared Johnson role and so I'm surprised the team haven't resigned him yet but yeah the depth will not be difficult to come by.

I don't like Conner as the Ted Linebacker. The Ted needs to be a physically dominant. He basically needs to act almost as a lead-blocker, in an almost defensive fullback role. His job is to clear the way and allow the Mike a free shot at the running back. So we a big thumper in there and I just don't think that Conner would fit. I think he'd be good as a backup Mike, but not as a Ted.

I would say about Powers though that may be a symptom of the Tampa 2. The Tampa 2 needs big, physical corners to both jam the opponents on the line and also make plays in the running game. He won't be asked to do that in the 3-4, or at least not as often, which may preserve his health.

killxswitch
03-19-2012, 02:02 PM
Evans is a pretty big, thick back similar to Carter. I think we are set at RB. A 3rd down back wouldn't hurt but I don't see it as a need.

I think Justice as a RT for a right-handed pocket passing QB will be a lot more effective. It is hard to block for Mike Vick. Yes Luck is athletic and can scramble or run but he is not at all the same type of QB or athlete that Vick is.

While there are no guarantees about any of the DEs on the roster, I don't think we can just assume they will all suck. They are on the roster and the coaches will have to give them a shot. I am hoping that with new coaches some of these underachievers show some growth and development that the previous morons didn't know what to do with.

We haven't had a LB like the Ted you talk about in so long I wouldn't even know where to begin. That sounds like a Jeremiah Trotter-type LB. Not a high-paid player but definitely a specific size and mindset.

It will be fun to learn new stuff as the defense develops.

falloutboy14
03-21-2012, 12:22 PM
Colts have signed C Samson Satele, 6-3, 300 pounds. Was drafted by the Dolphins, 2nd round in '07. Was with the Raiders for 3 seasons. Started 74 games in 5 years, which means he only missed 6 games.

Never heard of him, so I'm assuming it's not an expensive contract. Bring in as many inexpensive contracts as we can, and put the best 5 on the field.