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BeerBaron
01-03-2012, 09:26 AM
Instead of a normal write up, I thought it would be fun to do a little write up of my year-end thoughts for each team who didn't make the playoffs. My playoff thoughts can be found below that.

I'm just going to go from the bottom to the top of each division, around the league.

Oh, and mew-sick:



I'm feeling kind of grungy today.

LhRwkC6RxcU
hfkU4Moee84
IBszC40uvdQ
DuSRmui6jME


Buffalo Bills - 6-10
They finished right about where I would have expected them to had I predicted in the preseason. They took a little detour and looked like a pretty good team at first, but crashed back down to earth pretty hard late in the season. I've commented before on why I think this is: too many missed early draft picks. While it's great to find hidden gems late in the draft, undrafted, or on the FA scrap heap, it's hard to build an upper echelon team this way. Guys like Fitzpatrick (for some of the year,) Stevie Johnson, Fred Jackson...good players all, but the Bills simply lacked the top end talent to contend when they weren't generating turnovers en masse (which they were doing early in the year.) Years of misses on guys tracing back to JP Losman, John McCargo, Aaron Maybin, James Hardy and CJ Spiller and Leodis McKelvin to a lesser degree have hurt. Even some of the guys who had moderate success are no longer with the team such as Posluzny, Marshawn, Whitner, Lee Evans. You just can't build an NFL franchise off the scrap heap with limited elite talent. And this was very evident in Buffalo this year.

Miami Dolphins - 6-10
This is a team I think most people expected to be a little more successful than this. Chad Henne didn't show as much development as you would have liked (outside the Patriots game) and then got hurt. The team never really gave up, but it was apparent that they were overmatched against the better teams in the league. Matt Moore played surprisingly well, but I definitely would not give pass up an opportunity to draft a quality QB for Moore. If they fail to get someone better, then he's not a bad option to take into next year, but if the Dolphins were to pass on an opportunity for say, Robert Griffin, to stick with Moore, then they deserve another decade of futility.

New York Jets - 8-8
Well, it looks like the implosion finally happened. Holmes reverted back to the turd that he is, Brian Schottenheimer killed the offense, Mark Sanchez doesn't look like he'll ever take that next step, and Rex's vaunted defense failed in the end. This team takes more troubling issues than bright spots into the offseason and those two AFC Championship game runs look more like aberrations. Short of a drastic move (Make a run for Peyton Manning if he's available?) I think this team is more likely headed for a top 10 pick next year than back to the playoffs.

Cleveland Browns - 4-12
Lonely at the bottom? They are the only AFC North team who didn't make the playoffs, and don't appear to be headed that way anytime soon. Their offense has no teeth and it should be clear now that Colt McCoy is not a starter in the NFL. He might be able to manage games as a backup, but until the Browns have a legitimate franchise QB in place, they aren't going anywhere. Their defense was slightly better, owing to teams not passing on them much. (2nd ranked pass defense, but they had the 2nd fewest passes in the league attempted against them.) Because why even try to pass on them when running against them is so easy? (30th ranked run defense.) Pat Shurmur was also a very "bleh" coaching hire. A "safe" move, but not one that is going to propel this team anywhere anytime soon. Having two first round picks in the draft will help a little, but I think they need more help than that, especially in a division with Baltimore and Pittsburgh as mainstays at the top, and the Bengals looking like a team on the rise.

Indianapolis Colts - 2-14
Bill Polian is fired!! YES YES YES!! A few years too late to really help the league, but hey, better late than never. Now they have a VERY tricky situation coming up with Peyton Manning. Their options are to pay his option that is due before the start of the next league year, making him completely untradable and uncutable, or letting him walk. It's hard to say even where his level of health is, as that will be a major determining factor. With Polian out and Irsay calling the Peyton situation a "family matter," I have to think that they keep Peyton now. What does that mean for the #1 pick and Andrew Luck? Hard to say. It sounds like Irsay may want to make another post season run with a healthy Peyton, so I think the odds they trade the pick go up. Not what I'd do, but it could easily happen. If they trade a potential decade of success under the next (potentially) great franchise QB for maybe two years of attempted playoff runs, the Colts are doomed.

Jacksonville Jaguars - 5-11
Haha, good luck, you have Blaine ******* Gabbert at QB and the team is currently interviewing a ******** assortment of offensive coordinators and a few special teams coaches for the position. Good freaking luck. I'd rather be an offensive coordinator anywhere else than be the head coach in Jacksonville steering the Gabbert train wreck for a few season. Talk about making a huge black mark on your resume. I'd take their phone call, ask if I had to keep Gabbert at QB, then laugh and hang up when they say "yes." They could draft Justin Blackmon and make 3 clones of him and it still wouldn't help Gabbert because he wouldn't take his eyes off the pass rush long enough to find any one of them. Maybe you can hope the team signs a new backup QB and then hope that Gabbert gets hurt and that the new backup isn't terrible. It's probably the Jaguars' best hope of winning anytime soon. And the worst part of all...stop me if I sound like a broken record...is that ALL OF GABBERT'S FLAWS WERE PAINFULLY OBVIOUS IN COLLEGE! Yet this team still drafted him with a high first rounder. Bill ******* Walsh couldn't turn Gabbert into a competent NFL QB. Only because of the existence of Jimmy Clausen last year is Blaine Gabbert not the worst QB I've ever seen. He'll have to settle for 2nd worst.

Tennessee Titans - 9-7
Last team out of the playoffs...not bad. I think they were some of the league's biggest overachievers this year because if you look at the team overall, especially minus Kenny Britt, they are really an unspectacular bunch. Chris Johnson had a horrible year, but seemed to be able to put it together for stretches at the end. A good sign moving forward. Jake Locker also looked pretty good in the little spurts he saw the field, but I feel that the team is going to stick with Hasselbeck for another year at least. I think the Titans are a team that, next year, might take a step back record wise but actually put a superior product on the field if that makes sense. 9-7 was a bit of an overachievement this year.

Kansas City Chiefs - 7-9
They caught the INJURIEZZ bug early this year, but still made more of a season out of it than I would have expected. I think Romeo is definitely going to stay on as head coach next year, but I fear them going for McD as offensive coordinator. The St. Louis offensive this year was a complete trash trainwreck, and even in Denver, the huge yardage totals were completely hollow as the team had to try and catch up more often than not. It would also all but guarantee that they keep at least one of Cassel or Orton, if not both, and neither of those guys is the franchise QB the Chiefs should want and need. It wouldn't totally surprise me if they managed to win that weak division next year, hell they almost did it this year, but it also wouldn't surprise me to see them in the basement again without a franchise QB and having some of their best players back from serious knee injuries.

Oakland Raiders - 8-8
Yuck...that Carson Palmer trade still leaves a bad taste in my mouth. A 1st and 2nd round pick for a washed up INT machine...and now they will have no meaningful draft picks this year. Which means virtually this same Raiders team, plus or minus any free agents gained or lost, will be on the field next year. I'd like to say something about getting McFadden healthy...but McFadden is never healthy. Ever. A slight breeze breaks something in this guy's foot. They have a young/fast receiving corps that was mostly hurt this year, and that for me is the biggest hope this team has to do something next year...assuming Palmer can actually deliver the ball into their hands and not into the defender's. Their defense was also painfully bad and failed to get key stops when they needed them. Just this week vs. San Diego was a prime example. They need help and unfortunately, won't have a draft to do it. Plus, at least for the time being, Hue Jackson is GMing the team...and will be part of selecting the next GM...yikes. But hey, take solace in the fact that you're not the Jaguars!

San Diego Chargers - 8-8
Same old story, right? Fast start, slow finish...slow start, fast finish...it doesn't matter, as long as there is a "slow" part anywhere in the Chargers season, they aren't going anywhere. Word is that the team could potentially keep both Smith and Norv...which...meh. Some people hate it, and I'd rather see them move on, but it's not the worst thing ever for them to stay. The division is a complete crapsack and improving by even 1 win anywhere during the season could potentially have them in the playoffs as the division champs next year. They need to find another playmaker for around Philip Rivers on offense and find a playmaker to add to the defense, because right now, it's a very bland unit highlighted by Eric Weddle and....Shaun Phillips on a good day? Meh. They need someone able to make a big play in a key spot, and they don't have that currently on defense. I think they're my favorites for the division next year if I had to pick today...but who really ******* knows with that division?

Washington Redskins - 5-11
It looks like the Shanahan's will survive another down year. The QB situation is what killed them, and even going all out for one of the top QB prospects isn't going to be an instant fix. I think the Redskins more than any team should go full bore after Peyton Manning in off chance he does become available. (Unlikely, as explained previously.) Failing that...I think the Redskins are in trouble again next season, and it will mark the end of the Shanahan regime in Washington. Or will they win the Superbowl, eh JCBX?

Dallas Cowboys - 8-8
Jerry can't be too happy right now. I've said before and I'll say it again, I think this is one of the dumbest teams in football. And that kind of thing starts at the very top. The best thing Jerry could do for this franchise would be to hire an actual football minded GM and then just get out of the way. This team does have some truly elite talent. Romo is a top 10 QB in the NFL. Witten is still one of, if not thee, most well rounded TEs in football. Dez Bryant has sky high potential. Ware is likely a future HoFer if he keeps up at this rate. Sean Lee looks like he'll be a perennial pro bowler for years to come. There IS a ton of talent on this team...it's just surrounded by inferior talent (the secondary) or they get put into bad spots by poor coaching. I think this is the dumbest and most underachieving team in football.

Philadelphia Eagles - 8-8
A truly disappointing year. Where was the team that finished so strong in the first 10 or so games? Had they showed up, they would have given the Packers and 49ers a run for the bye week. Instead... .500 team. Vick pretty clearly regressed as a passer and was banged up far too much. And that defense...what will be done? I don't like that wide 9 thing at all. They don't have the linebackers suited for it and will get exposed by any team willing to run the ball. And all of that zone coverage was an abysmal scheme to put their corners into. They have a lot to fix before I'll consider them a contending team. They could fix it all...say with a firing of their defensive coaching staff and bringing in say...Spags...but will they? Castillo is a friend of Reid's and I'm not sure Reid will fire him. All that scheme is good for is padding sack numbers once the game is out of hand. No thanks.

Minnesota Vikings - 3-13
The McNabb experiment failed miserably, Ponder had ups and downs...with more downs...Peterson's knee got exploded...the o-line couldn't block and the secondary couldn't cover....but thank god for Jared Allen, right? There isn't much good to point out here, but at least you'll have a pretty good shot of drafting Matt Kalil, right? Ugly year for the Vikes.

Chicago Bears - 8-8
7-3....on a roll....agh. What could have been. Part of our success last year was the fact that we avoided all significant injuries. Once Cutler went down, it was game over. With the way he was playing and the fact that most of our final games were close even with our lousy backups, I feel that we could have gone 11-5 or maybe even 12-4. But it was not to be and now JA has been shown the door. Lovie will be kept, and I have a feeling that Martz could still be fired. Tim Ruskell will probably be promoted to GM in a classic cheap McCaskey move. Mehhhh....at least we'll have Cutler back next year. Gotta look forward to something, right?

Tampa Bay Bucs - 4-12
Were easily the worst team in football in the final weeks. They probably couldn't have even beaten LSU with the way they were playing. Morris was rightfully fired, but he'll get a chance to repair his image as a defensive assistant somewhere. I also think he'd make for a good college head coach...his personality seems best suited to that in my mind. Anywho, on the Bucs...what an awful team. I don't know if they gave up or what, but it would have been difficult to get much worse. Anyone who wanted to move the ball on them could by any means they liked, and that offense couldn't get going if you let them have 13 players on the field. I don't think this is going to be a quick turnaround effort. Serious time will need to be spend evaluating each member of the team, even including Freeman. That 10-6 years seems to be as big of a joke as the Browns 10-6 season was a few years back.

Carolina Panthers - 6-10
The fightin' Cam Newtons. I don't think anyone...even the biggest Newton supporters....expected anything THIS big out of him. However, they still have a lot of holes to fill on that defense if they want to compete any time soon. 28th in total, 27th in scoring...not good. Ron Rivera is a good guy to have in charge of that, but I think it'll take another season or two before the defense is to the level needed to support the offense enough. They also avoided the trap the Bucs fell into last year by having a hollow season with a lot of wins. Expectations won't be quite as high, so they won't be blasted as badly if they don't make the playoffs. It'll all depend on Newton's continued development and how much they can improve the defense.

St. Louis Rams - 2-14
Picking in the top 2 in three of the last four years....I think that's even worse than anything the Lions did over a stretch like that during the Matt Millen era. Spags has more losses in the last 3 years (38) than Bill Belichick does in the last 10 season including this one (37.) There are major questions regarding a lot of the team's younger players, Sam Bradford and their o-linemen especially. Bradford will finish in the bottom 3 of YPA two years running and is very much in danger of becoming a captain checkdown. Will they take a WR to help him out at #2 overall? They could take Kalil and move Saffold into guard...but simply having better protection won't help the laggy offense if the receivers still can't get open. The next coach/GM tandem will have a lot of work to do, that is for sure.

Seattle Seahawks - 7-9
Hey! 7-9 again! Playoff....oh. Not this year. Outside of the QB position, this team has some good things to work with. Marshawk Lynch appears to back to full blown beast mode while the defense has been pretty solid, improving as the season went along. They have a very young o-line who was mostly injured this year, but there is some talent there. I'd like to see what this team could do if they got their hands on a top QB like Griffin, but they'll most likely have to settle for one of the...lesser...choices. Tarvaris Jackson wasn't completely horrible, but for the Seahawks to take that next step, they need to find someone better at the position.

Arizona Cardinals 8-8
Hey, this would have been good enough to win the division last year at least. Patrick Peterson looks like the real deal, at least as a return man, and he could end up a stud at CB too. The QB situation is going to be tricky. They traded quite a bit for Kolb and paid him reasonably well, but he didn't deliver with victories. Skelton on the other hand was wildly erratic, but delivered far more of the W's. I'm predicting a full blown offseason competition. The most important thing for them headed forward will be to settle on the QB and keep him in full time barring injury next year. No pussyfooting (holy ****, Firefox recognizes that as a word!) around and switching them every time one has a down game.

PLAYOFF PREDICTION TIME!!

Wildcard Round:

Cincinnati (6) at Houston (3)
- Gary Kubiak has such a short leash and tight collar on TJ Yates that he literally strangles the rookie QB to death. Preferring a corpse at the position over playing Jake Delhomme, the Texans play on offense with only 10 men. While effective at first, the Bengals soon catch on to the "direct snap to Arian Foster" gameplan and snuff the Texans out.

Bengals win 20-14

Detroit (6) at New Orleans (3)
- New Orleans moves effortlessly up and down the field against the Detroit defense, especially after Suh goes full blown rage mode and gets ejected after curb stomping the head referee to death. Drew Brees sets every imaginable record, completing 44/45. Louis Delmas returns from injury to deflect one pass, allowing Brodeur to claim that Delmas DID in fact improve the Detroit secondary a little bit.

New Orleans wins 49-24

Atlanta (5) at NYG (4)
- Perry Fewell's new gameplan of "rush 0, cover 11" fails spectacularly, allowing the Falcons to move up and down the field with ease. Eli Manning manages to lead the Giants into the red zone on every possession, but Kevin Gilbride uses a strategy of "3 straight draws to Brandon Jacobs" once there, killing every drive. Mike Mularkey's insistence on giving Michael Turner the ball when the pass is working so well (despite Turner averaging 2.0 YPC) is the only reason the Falcons don't score more.

Falcons win 28-15

Pittsburgh (5) at Denver (4)
- Tebow's regression as a passer hits an all time low as the Steelers don't even both to send a pass rush. Instead, they have their lineman stand in place with their arms raised, forcing Tebow to attempt to read the most complex coverage scheme ever dreamed up by Dick Lebeau. The result is that Tebow goes 0/18 with 9 interceptions. He is briefly pulled for Brady Quinn, who forgets which team he is playing for and can't understand why the coaches are so mad at him for throwing directly to the Steelers on every play.

Pittsburgh wins.....

But wait! The Broncos are resurrected after playoff death and, through divine intervention, are allowed to move onto the next round, sending the Steelers home.

Broncos win via divine intervention

Divisional Round

New Orleans (3) at San Fran (2)
- Jim Harbaugh's strategy of playing 9 offensive linemen every play overwhelms the Saints defensive front, allowing Frank Gore to rush for an unprecedented 508 yards on 63 carries. Alex Smith doesn't even need to attempt a pass as the 49ers win easily, also dominating the time of possession, holding the ball for 53 minutes.

49ers win 28-20

Cincinnati (6) at New England (1)
- A scandal erupts claiming that the Kraft family is in fact completely broke and was unable to pay to field a team this year. The entire Patriots organization consists entirely of Bill Belichick and Tom Brady. As Kraft is a respected owner, to avoid embarrassment, the league allowed Belichick to use holograms, smoke and mirrors as defenders and o-linemen, while installing a series of trip wires on the field to trip up opposing players. Skill players such as Gronkowski and Welker were in fact only manikins in jerseys, pulled along the field via a series of cables and pulleys by Belichick on the sideline. The rest of the "staff" were merely extras the team hired. The extras believed they were only filming a movie about football. Still, the combination of Tom Brady, manikins and trip wires is enough for the Patriots to get past the Bengals.

Patriots win 35-21

Denver (4) at Baltimore (2)
- God once again comes to the aid of Tim Tebow in the most unlikely of ways. He takes Cam Cameron back in time to chance any mistake of his choice from the past, and Cameron chooses to remove all carries he gave to Ray Rice during the season, instead changing all of those carries to deep bombs intended for Anquan Boldin, as he felt it would make him look more like an offensive genius and thus, be able to get another head coaching job. Instead, the Ravens go 0-16 and are removed from the playoffs, allowing Denver to advance unimpeded.

Broncos win via divine intervention.

Atlanta (5) at Green Bay (1)
- Despite numerous petitions to the league office, the rule requiring the Falcons to only play with 7 defenders anytime they play against the Saints or Packers is not lifted. The Packers choose to rest Aaron Rodgers again, allowing Matt Flynn to throw for 600 yards and 7 TDs in a romp.

Packers win 49-31

Championship Round

Denver (4) at New England (1)
- God this time chooses to assume direct control over the mortal form of Tim Tebow, and no amount of trickery or illusion can overcome Tebow as he goes all Sodom and Gomorrah on Foxboro. In a last ditch effort, Bill Belichick shatters the Amulet of Kings, becoming an avatar of Akatosh, divine dragon god of time. With the power of Akatosh, Belichick is able to banish the Tebow-God monster from the mortal realm forever. Saint Belichick is sacrificed in the process, but all of humanity will forever remember the debt they owe to him. With Tebow vanquished, John Elway and John Fox breathe a sigh of relief and simply forfeit the rest of the game, happy now that they can pursue an actual NFL QB without risking the wrath of god.

Patriots win via forfeiture

San Fran (2) at Green Bay (1)
- Against choosing to rest Aaron Rodgers, the Packers trade blows with the 49ers heavy duty rushing attack with Matt Flynn at the helm. The Packers, holding a TD lead late, force the 49ers into a 4th quarter hail mary attempt. Alex Smith delivers the ball well and upon deflection...it appears they win! But after review, the refs overturn to hail mary. Overcome by flashbacks to his time with the Colts, Jim Harbaugh goes on a rampage, breaking Mike McCarthy's hand during the post-game hand shake. The media runs with the story non-stop for a fortnight.

Packers win 35-28

Pro Bowl

No one cares.

Superbowl

New England vs. Green Bay
- Without Belichick at the helm, Tom Brady tries his best to both play QB and work all of the pulleys and hologram machinery. Despite a valiant effort, he eventually falls to the Packers, who still chose to rest Aaron Rodgers...yanno, just in case....

Packers win 31-17

killxswitch
01-03-2012, 10:12 AM
Nice write-up, lots to read. Of course I skipped to the Colts first.

I will sig bet you whatever you want that Irsay takes Andrew Luck.

BeerBaron
01-03-2012, 10:22 AM
Nice write-up, lots to read. Of course I skipped to the Colts first.

I will sig bet you whatever you want that Irsay takes Andrew Luck.

I said yesterday that the odds of them not taking Luck moved from like .01% to like 5%. They should take Luck. Should. SHOULD.

DraftSavant
01-03-2012, 10:36 AM
B]Jacksonville Jaguars - 5-11[/B]
Haha, good luck, you have Blaine ******* Gabbert at QB and the team is currently interviewing a ******** assortment of offensive coordinators and a few special teams coaches for the position. Good freaking luck. I'd rather be an offensive coordinator anywhere else than be the head coach in Jacksonville steering the Gabbert train wreck for a few season. Talk about making a huge black mark on your resume. I'd take their phone call, ask if I had to keep Gabbert at QB, then laugh and hang up when they say "yes." They could draft Justin Blackmon and make 3 clones of him and it still wouldn't help Gabbert because he wouldn't take his eyes off the pass rush long enough to find any one of them. Maybe you can hope the team signs a new backup QB and then hope that Gabbert gets hurt and that the new backup isn't terrible. It's probably the Jaguars' best hope of winning anytime soon. And the worst part of all...stop me if I sound like a broken record...is that ALL OF GABBERT'S FLAWS WERE PAINFULLY OBVIOUS IN COLLEGE! Yet this team still drafted him with a high first rounder. Bill ******* Walsh couldn't turn Gabbert into a competent NFL QB. Only because of the existence of Jimmy Clausen last year is Blaine Gabbert not the worst QB I've ever seen. He'll have to settle for 2nd worst.


Actually, that's exactly what I'm hoping for!

Iamcanadian
01-03-2012, 10:50 AM
Instead of a normal write up, I thought it would be fun to do a little write up of my year-end thoughts for each team who didn't make the playoffs. My playoff thoughts can be found below that.

I'm just going to go from the bottom to the top of each division, around the league.

Oh, and mew-sick:



I'm feeling kind of grungy today.

LhRwkC6RxcU
hfkU4Moee84
IBszC40uvdQ
DuSRmui6jME


Buffalo Bills - 6-10
They finished right about where I would have expected them to had I predicted in the preseason. They took a little detour and looked like a pretty good team at first, but crashed back down to earth pretty hard late in the season. I've commented before on why I think this is: too many missed early draft picks. While it's great to find hidden gems late in the draft, undrafted, or on the FA scrap heap, it's hard to build an upper echelon team this way. Guys like Fitzpatrick (for some of the year,) Stevie Johnson, Fred Jackson...good players all, but the Bills simply lacked the top end talent to contend when they weren't generating turnovers en masse (which they were doing early in the year.) Years of misses on guys tracing back to JP Losman, John McCargo, Aaron Maybin, James Hardy and CJ Spiller and Leodis McKelvin to a lesser degree have hurt. Even some of the guys who had moderate success are no longer with the team such as Posluzny, Marshawn, Whitner, Lee Evans. You just can't build an NFL franchise off the scrap heap with limited elite talent. And this was very evident in Buffalo this year.

[QUOTE]The Bills stink for the last 2 decades because their owner is cheap, cheap and even cheaper.

They fail to retain their top FA's every year and rarely use any money on signing top FA's to to replace the players they lose. This forces them to use the draft to replace the FA's they lose rather than using it to fill holes to improve the team. Because of this, they have no bench and every injury is becomes catastrophic.

Worse yet, because their owner is cheap, their scouting department is sad and understaffed and forced to make do. This inevitably leads to bad drafts making it even more difficult for the team to rebuild.

Miami Dolphins - 6-10
This is a team I think most people expected to be a little more successful than this. Chad Henne didn't show as much development as you would have liked (outside the Patriots game) and then got hurt. The team never really gave up, but it was apparent that they were overmatched against the better teams in the league. Matt Moore played surprisingly well, but I definitely would not give pass up an opportunity to draft a quality QB for Moore. If they fail to get someone better, then he's not a bad option to take into next year, but if the Dolphins were to pass on an opportunity for say, Robert Griffin, to stick with Moore, then they deserve another decade of futility.

Totally agree, this is a team without a franchise QB and in the current NFL, that is the kiss of death.

New York Jets - 8-8
Well, it looks like the implosion finally happened. Holmes reverted back to the turd that he is, Brian Schottenheimer killed the offense, Mark Sanchez doesn't look like he'll ever take that next step, and Rex's vaunted defense failed in the end. This team takes more troubling issues than bright spots into the offseason and those two AFC Championship game runs look more like aberrations. Short of a drastic move (Make a run for Peyton Manning if he's available?) I think this team is more likely headed for a top 10 pick next year than back to the playoffs.

Disagree here, I think Sanchez who had limited experience coming out of college is just on the verge of a breakout year. However I totally agree that some real skill weapons need to be added to make this offense effect. They in particular saw a great drop off in the running attack this season and need a stud at RB to make Ryan's offense effective. A couple of young WR's would help too.
If they can find at least a stud at RB, this team can challenge NE next year for top in the AFC East.

Cleveland Browns - 4-12
Lonely at the bottom? They are the only AFC North team who didn't make the playoffs, and don't appear to be headed that way anytime soon. Their offense has no teeth and it should be clear now that Colt McCoy is not a starter in the NFL. He might be able to manage games as a backup, but until the Browns have a legitimate franchise QB in place, they aren't going anywhere. Their defense was slightly better, owing to teams not passing on them much. (2nd ranked pass defense, but they had the 2nd fewest passes in the league attempted against them.) Because why even try to pass on them when running against them is so easy? (30th ranked run defense.) Pat Shurmur was also a very "bleh" coaching hire. A "safe" move, but not one that is going to propel this team anywhere anytime soon. Having two first round picks in the draft will help a little, but I think they need more help than that, especially in a division with Baltimore and Pittsburgh as mainstays at the top, and the Bengals looking like a team on the rise.

Totally agree, this team missed on an opportunity to have Sanchez at QB and Julio Jones at WR. They broke the 'Golden Rule' never pass on a potential franchise QB if you don't have one, and could pay the consequences for years to come.
You may disagree that Sanchez will be successful in the end but the 'Golden Rule' should have been followed.

Indianapolis Colts - 2-14
Bill Polian is fired!! YES YES YES!! A few years too late to really help the league, but hey, better late than never. Now they have a VERY tricky situation coming up with Peyton Manning. Their options are to pay his option that is due before the start of the next league year, making him completely untradable and uncutable, or letting him walk. It's hard to say even where his level of health is, as that will be a major determining factor. With Polian out and Irsay calling the Peyton situation a "family matter," I have to think that they keep Peyton now. What does that mean for the #1 pick and Andrew Luck? Hard to say. It sounds like Irsay may want to make another post season run with a healthy Peyton, so I think the odds they trade the pick go up. Not what I'd do, but it could easily happen. If they trade a potential decade of success under the next (potentially) great franchise QB for maybe two years of attempted playoff runs, the Colts are doomed.

Disagree with you on Polian but Irsay had the say and made the decision. This could prove to be a complete disaster for Indy. They could have dumped Peyton like Polian wanted and used the 38 million dollars to sign as many as 7 or 8 top FA's to rebuild the team around Luck, now the outcome is anybody's guess and I seriously doubt, Irsay makes solid decisions.

Jacksonville Jaguars - 5-11
Haha, good luck, you have Blaine ******* Gabbert at QB and the team is currently interviewing a ******** assortment of offensive coordinators and a few special teams coaches for the position. Good freaking luck. I'd rather be an offensive coordinator anywhere else than be the head coach in Jacksonville steering the Gabbert train wreck for a few season. Talk about making a huge black mark on your resume. I'd take their phone call, ask if I had to keep Gabbert at QB, then laugh and hang up when they say "yes." They could draft Justin Blackmon and make 3 clones of him and it still wouldn't help Gabbert because he wouldn't take his eyes off the pass rush long enough to find any one of them. Maybe you can hope the team signs a new backup QB and then hope that Gabbert gets hurt and that the new backup isn't terrible. It's probably the Jaguars' best hope of winning anytime soon. And the worst part of all...stop me if I sound like a broken record...is that ALL OF GABBERT'S FLAWS WERE PAINFULLY OBVIOUS IN COLLEGE! Yet this team still drafted him with a high first rounder. Bill ******* Walsh couldn't turn Gabbert into a competent NFL QB. Only because of the existence of Jimmy Clausen last year is Blaine Gabbert not the worst QB I've ever seen. He'll have to settle for 2nd worst.

Well time will tell on Gabbert but you always seem to rush to judgment while I like to take a slower approach. Maybe you are right on about Gabbert but just maybe you are dead wrong like I think you are on Sanchez.
We'll see in 3 years.

Tennessee Titans - 9-7
Last team out of the playoffs...not bad. I think they were some of the league's biggest overachievers this year because if you look at the team overall, especially minus Kenny Britt, they are really an unspectacular bunch. Chris Johnson had a horrible year, but seemed to be able to put it together for stretches at the end. A good sign moving forward. Jake Locker also looked pretty good in the little spurts he saw the field, but I feel that the team is going to stick with Hasselbeck for another year at least. I think the Titans are a team that, next year, might take a step back record wise but actually put a superior product on the field if that makes sense. 9-7 was a bit of an underachievement this year.

I'd have to say that the year was a real success for Tennessee. They made a coaching change that really worked out for them and as you pointed out Britt(injury) and Johnson didn't have the seasons they are capable of.
I really think they have a bright future for next year. Locker will still have to prove he can be a capable starting QB in the future but everything else looks pretty rosy to me.

Kansas City Chiefs - 7-9
They caught the INJURIEZZ bug early this year, but still made more of a season out of it than I would have expected. I think Romeo is definitely going to stay on as head coach next year, but I fear them going for McD as offensive coordinator. The St. Louis offensive this year was a complete trash trainwreck, and even in Denver, the huge yardage totals were completely hollow as the team had to try and catch up more often than not. It would also all but guarantee that they keep at least one of Cassel or Orton, if not both, and neither of those guys is the franchise QB the Chiefs should want and need. It wouldn't totally surprise me if they managed to win that weak division next year, hell they almost did it this year, but it also wouldn't surprise me to see them in the basement again without a franchise QB and having some of their best players back from serious knee injuries.

I'll have to wait to see who the new HC is before I can give a lot of credence to this team. The owner sided with the GM over the HC and I'm not sure he made the correct choice.
I agree this team will go as far as Cassel can take them and I don't see Orton as an option for a playoff team, just a solid backup IMO.

Injuries screwed the team and it made it easy to blame the HC but he took a far less talented team to 10 wins the year before and we'll have to see if Pioli can pull the trigger a second time when finding solid HC's is always a tricky task.
I fully expect KC to dominate this Division next year(I'm assuming the owner of San Diego proves to be an idiot and retains the Smith/Turner combo), otherwise I will really question the firing of Haley.

Oakland Raiders - 8-8
Yuck...that Carson Palmer trade still leaves a bad taste in my mouth. A 1st and 2nd round pick for a washed up INT machine...and now they will have no meaningful draft picks this year. Which means virtually this same Raiders team, plus or minus any free agents gained or lost, will be on the field next year. I'd like to say something about getting McFadden healthy...but McFadden is never healthy. Ever. A slight breeze breaks something in this guy's foot. They have a young/fast receiving corps that was mostly hurt this year, and that for me is the biggest hope this team has to do something next year...assuming Palmer can actually deliver the ball into their hands and not into the defender's. Their defense was also painfully bad and failed to get key stops when they needed them. Just this week vs. San Diego was a prime example. They need help and unfortunately, won't have a draft to do it. Plus, at least for the time being, Hue Jackson is GMing the team...and will be part of selecting the next GM...yikes. But hey, take solace in the fact that you're not the Jaguars!

With Al Davis gone, this team is in total transition and I have little confidence in their immediate future. Jackson was simply a Davis puppet and seemed lost once his master was gone.
I just don't see much potential until a GM is named and we see what he puts in place as his HC and assistant coaches.
I really think it will be a couple of years before the dust clears and we get a clear idea which direction this franchise is headed.

San Diego Chargers - 8-8
Same old story, right? Fast start, slow finish...slow start, fast finish...it doesn't matter, as long as there is a "slow" part anywhere in the Chargers season, they aren't going anywhere. Word is that the team could potentially keep both Smith and Norv...which...meh. Some people hate it, and I'd rather see them move on, but it's not the worst thing ever for them to stay. The division is a complete crapsack and improving by even 1 win anywhere during the season could potentially have them in the playoffs as the division champs next year. They need to find another playmaker for around Philip Rivers on offense and find a playmaker to add to the defense, because right now, it's a very bland unit highlighted by Eric Weddle and....Shaun Phillips on a good day? Meh. They need someone able to make a big play in a key spot, and they don't have that currently on defense. I think they're my favorites for the division next year if I had to pick today...but who really ******* knows with that division?

IMO, they both should go but the owner is an idiot so who knows. Only team in the Division with a franchise QB which means they should dominate the Division every single year but where is the meat????
This is the worst run team in the NFL with talent and you have to blame the owner for that kind of situation.
This team is going nowhere, period, unless there are changes.

Interesting read, keep it up.

Seamus2602
01-03-2012, 11:34 AM
Disagree with you on Polian but Irsay had the say and made the decision. This could prove to be a complete disaster for Indy. They could have dumped Peyton like Polian wanted and used the 38 million dollars to sign as many as 7 or 8 top FA's to rebuild the team around Luck, now the outcome is anybody's guess and I seriously doubt, Irsay makes solid decisions.

Well most top Free Agents don't come at $4M or $5M a year so I don't know how $38M could be used to sign 7 or 8 guys. Secondly if Manning was cut before the season started there would still be his signing bonus to take care of so that cap hit would be $16M. So that $22M would maybe sign 2 or 3 guys in Free Agency. If Manning reworks his deal and that $28M is signed throughout the contract it means an additional hit of only $7M, putting Manning's cap hit for next year at $18.4M. That means that the Colts would only make a saving of $2.4M if they cut Manning which isn't even enough to sign a mid level Free Agent.

DoughBoy
01-03-2012, 11:40 AM
I agree with everything you said about the Titans. Jake Locker panning out and Kenny Britt staying healthy is about the only thing that will make us more than a mediocre team.

brat316
01-03-2012, 11:43 AM
How about 2 guys breaking Marino's record? In the era of passing it just makes Marino's record at the time he set that much more greater.

Dickerson's record was set in the era of running. If someone were to break it now, would it make said person's record that much more greater. If Marino's was why not the rushing record in the era of passing.

DraftSavant
01-03-2012, 11:52 AM
How about 2 guys breaking Marino's record? In the era of passing it just makes Marino's record at the time he set that much more greater.

Dickerson's record was set in the era of running. If someone were to break it now, would it make said person's record that much more greater. If Marino's was why not the rushing record in the era of passing.

I read or heard somewhere that Brees+Rodgers and Marino are basically equal in terms of YPG over the league-wide average. All three finished about 90 ypg higher than the league average. It's all relative.

Iamcanadian
01-03-2012, 11:52 AM
Well most top Free Agents don't come at $4M or $5M a year so I don't know how $38M could be used to sign 7 or 8 guys. Secondly if Manning was cut before the season started there would still be his signing bonus to take care of so that cap hit would be $16M. So that $22M would maybe sign 2 or 3 guys in Free Agency. If Manning reworks his deal and that $28M is signed throughout the contract it means an additional hit of only $7M, putting Manning's cap hit for next year at $18.4M. That means that the Colts would only make a saving of $2.4M if they cut Manning which isn't even enough to sign a mid level Free Agent.

Thanks for the info, however, a talent appraiser like Polian could still make great use of even 22 million and I suggested 38 million over 2 years so maybe it was somewhat closer.
I don't think he would go after aging stars with the money but use it to bring in young starters with growth potential around which a new Luck era might be built, but I guess we'll never know now because if I read the tea leaves right, Irsay will keep Peyton no matter the price and the rebuilding process could be drawn out for years. I really think the Indy fans could pay the price for this decision.

kalbears13
01-03-2012, 11:54 AM
Totally agree, this team missed on an opportunity to have Sanchez at QB and Julio Jones at WR. They broke the 'Golden Rule' never pass on a potential franchise QB if you don't have one, and could pay the consequences for years to come.
You may disagree that Sanchez will be successful in the end but the 'Golden Rule' should have been followed.

The 'Golden Rule' applies to if you actually think that he's going to be a franchise quarterback. Just because one team believed that he was valued as a potential franchise quarterback, doesn't mean that he is a potential franchise quarterback in the eyes of all FOs. Look at Gabbert or Locker for example.

Iamcanadian
01-03-2012, 12:21 PM
The 'Golden Rule' applies to if you actually think that he's going to be a franchise quarterback. Just because one team believed that he was valued as a potential franchise quarterback, doesn't mean that he is a potential franchise quarterback in the eyes of all FOs. Look at Gabbert or Locker for example.

Very true but the guy who made the decision on Sanchez for Cleveland no longer has a job and Sanchez took the Jets to 2 SB runs.
The guy who made the decision on Jones has yet to bring Cleveland more than 4 wins and I'm not seeing a whole lot in their future for the next few years.

Bengals78
01-03-2012, 12:27 PM
Very true but the guy who made the decision on Sanchez for Cleveland no longer has a job and Sanchez took the Jets to 2 SB runs.
The guy who made the decision on Jones has yet to bring Cleveland more than 4 wins and I'm not seeing a whole lot in their future for the next few years.

IMO it either pays off this year for Cleveland or not at all.
They have 2 first round picks and if they get a QB and weapon for him with them, then it may pay off.

vidae
01-03-2012, 12:32 PM
Good KC write up BB. I agree 100%.

Iamcanadian
01-03-2012, 12:36 PM
IMO it either pays off this year for Cleveland or not at all.
They have 2 first round picks and if they get a QB and weapon for him with them, then it may pay off.

When Barkley returned to school, it makes getting a QB pretty tough as some teams will be all over the Rams and Vikings for RG111, which likely means we are left high and dry.

BeerBaron
01-03-2012, 12:38 PM
NFC added and playoff predictions as well.

I think you guys will really get a kick out of the playoff predictions....hehe

Bengals78
01-03-2012, 12:42 PM
If Pacman decides not to make a dumb holding penalty in the closing seconds of the game, I think we can win round 2.

Jvig43
01-03-2012, 12:49 PM
NFC added and playoff predictions as well.

I think you guys will really get a kick out of the playoff predictions....hehe

I for one sir, do not enjoy that prediction!


And who are we kidding, the Pats aren't going anywhere.

MichaelJordanEberle (sabf)
01-03-2012, 12:52 PM
I was actually looking forward to seeing how bad you predicted Pitt to whoop up on Denver.

soybean
01-03-2012, 12:55 PM
Me being the USC homer that I am, I hope there's some way we can get Taylor Mays from Cincy because well... he sucks. But so did Aaron Maybin.

BeerBaron
01-03-2012, 12:57 PM
I was actually looking forward to seeing how bad you predicted Pitt to whoop up on Denver.

Y U NO enjoy the comedy?

Brodeur
01-03-2012, 01:04 PM
Once again the Lions won't get blown out, but keep doubting them. It's expected at this point.

Raiderz4Life
01-03-2012, 01:51 PM
Once again the Lions won't get blown out, but keep doubting them. It's expected at this point.

Imma agree with Brody on this one, I think the Lions lose but I expect it to be more like 45-40 or something like that.

Wodwo
01-03-2012, 02:17 PM
Y U NO enjoy the comedy?

You were only joking?

Damn... I was looking forward to Belichik vs. Tebow.

http://fc07.deviantart.net/fs24/i/2008/014/7/c/Godzilla_Vs__Cthulhu_by_aquilianranger.jpg

Jvig43
01-03-2012, 02:47 PM
Once again the Lions won't get blown out, but keep doubting them. It's expected at this point.

If they do get blown out will you take down your wrestling sigs?

Brodeur
01-03-2012, 02:54 PM
If they do get blown out will you take down your wrestling sigs?

Never. All my point is that they've gotten blown out one time all season (against the Bears), and they played the Saints pretty damn close in the midst of a total mental meltdown and without Suh/Chris Houston/Delmas. The team can suck at times defensively, but it's a Jekyll/Hyde thing where the D-Line could randomly play well and make them look way better some weeks. I'm being a homer in saying they'll win, but there is no evidence that it'll be a blowout.

Jvig43
01-03-2012, 02:59 PM
Never. All my point is that they've gotten blown out one time all season (against the Bears), and they played the Saints pretty damn close in the midst of a total mental meltdown and without Suh/Chris Houston/Delmas. The team can suck at times defensively, but it's a Jekyll/Hyde thing where the D-Line could randomly play well and make them look way better some weeks. I'm being a homer in saying they'll win, but there is no evidence that it'll be a blowout.

Eh the saints are very hot right now and the Lions..... just got torched by Flynn and the Packers backups. I can see why people would think that.

BeerBaron
01-03-2012, 03:52 PM
I enjoy the hell out of writing up those funny playoff scenarios and people only want to talk actual NFL stuff....fine.....

I was actually looking forward to seeing how bad you predicted Pitt to whoop up on Denver.

It should be real bad. I worry that the Steelers, without Mendenhall, will get too pass wacky with Ben on a bad leg behind a bad o-line.

Also, Ryan Clark won't play. The high altitude in Denver could kill him...so I understand that...but it may effect their defense some if it requires Polamalu to play more of an actual safety role.

It worries me a little bit. SHOULD be a blowout if the Steelers play up to their ability and stay balanced on offense.

Once again the Lions won't get blown out, but keep doubting them. It's expected at this point.
Imma agree with Brody on this one, I think the Lions lose but I expect it to be more like 45-40 or something like that.

Yeah, the mega blowout was more for comedy. I think it'll be closer, but I still have the Saints winning.

DBNYDP
01-03-2012, 04:11 PM
Nice job, I liked your playoff predictions, I giggled. Though I can't help but think you committed blasphemy somewhere there.

MichaelJordanEberle (sabf)
01-03-2012, 04:51 PM
I enjoy the hell out of writing up those funny playoff scenarios and people only want to talk actual NFL stuff....fine.....



It should be real bad. I worry that the Steelers, without Mendenhall, will get too pass wacky with Ben on a bad leg behind a bad o-line.

Also, Ryan Clark won't play. The high altitude in Denver could kill him...so I understand that...but it may effect their defense some if it requires Polamalu to play more of an actual safety role.

It worries me a little bit. SHOULD be a blowout if the Steelers play up to their ability and stay balanced on offense.
.

I think the Steelers could walk out there with 10 men on defense and still shut Denver down. Let's be real here, Tebow isn't testing anyone deep anytime soon.

I really think Denver's only chance in this game is if they can stop the Steelers Mendenhall-less running game, force them into passing a lot and having Doom and Von go nuts. If they can both play at their top form, pressure Ben into a few turnovers and give the offense a few short fields.
Offensively, McGahee has to go off. If he can do that, maybe Tebow can escape the pocket and complete 40% of his passes for 5 yards per attempt. Even that has a small chance of happening, because McGahee had a good game last week and Tebow couldn't escape the pocket anyway.

But, if all of those things happen, Denver maybe has a chance to win a one possession game. Maybe. If even one of those things fails to happen, we get **** kicked.

PS I did enjoy the comedy, I just scrolled right to the Broncos-Steelers part expecting an anti-Tebow rant.

BeerBaron
01-03-2012, 05:07 PM
I think the Steelers could walk out there with 10 men on defense and still shut Denver down. Let's be real here, Tebow isn't testing anyone deep anytime soon.

I really think Denver's only chance in this game is if they can stop the Steelers Mendenhall-less running game, force them into passing a lot and having Doom and Von go nuts. If they can both play at their top form, pressure Ben into a few turnovers and give the offense a few short fields.
Offensively, McGahee has to go off. If he can do that, maybe Tebow can escape the pocket and complete 40% of his passes for 5 yards per attempt. Even that has a small chance of happening, because McGahee had a good game last week and Tebow couldn't escape the pocket anyway.

But, if all of those things happen, Denver maybe has a chance to win a one possession game. Maybe. If even one of those things fails to happen, we get **** kicked.

PS I did enjoy the comedy, I just scrolled right to the Broncos-Steelers part expecting an anti-Tebow rant.

Like I said, the Steelers SHOULD win. Win easily. But I can rattle off a list of like 6-7 teams that also SHOULD have won this season, and managed to **** themselves into a corner.

As long as Ben and those receivers show up to play, they can put the score out of reach even if the defense for some reason has trouble with Tebow.

J-Mike88
01-03-2012, 05:19 PM
Very very hilarious stuff, especially the Lions, Broncos and Packers stuff.
Great writing BB!

Rodgers will be well-rested for his personal off-season workouts?

Brodeur
01-03-2012, 05:21 PM
If the Steelers just pressure Tebow all game like the Chiefs, they will have no trouble at all. I really don't see the Broncos beating the Steelers at all, this isn't a situation like the Seahawks last year where they have a massive home field advantage.

BeerBaron
01-03-2012, 05:22 PM
i have to be honest, if brady quinn actually threw to the steelers on every passing play, that'd be a massive step up for him. at least he'd be throwing it to actual players, rather than the dirt 30 feet in front of them.

There was a preseason game a few years back against the Bengals...I think it was in his first season with the Broncos. Four straight passes of his hit Bengals and ONLY Bengals. If they were playing anyone but the Bengals scrubs, all 4 should have and could have been picked off. It was ridiculous.

The strangest thing for Quinn, to me, is that he wasn't this bad in college, unlike a certain Gabbert character. He got to the NFL and apparently left everything he ever knew about football behind him.

Very very hilarious stuff, especially the Lions, Broncos and Packers stuff.
Great writing BB!

Rodgers will be well-rested for his personal off-season workouts?

Yes. Can't risk an injury in the Superbowl when those early mini-camps are looming. The best weapon is one you never have to fire, amiright?

Brodeur
01-03-2012, 05:25 PM
The strangest thing for Quinn, to me, is that he wasn't this bad in college, unlike a certain Gabbert character. He got to the NFL and apparently left everything he ever knew about football behind him.


That's not entirely true. I mean, I know the Lions defense was awful, but he looked damn good against them a couple of years ago.

BeerBaron
01-03-2012, 05:29 PM
That's not entirely true. I mean, I know the Lions defense was awful, but he looked damn good against them a couple of years ago.

Alright, he left just about everything at college except for against the Lions that one time.

Looking at his game logs now and he's had....two...decent games. In 2009, he had that one against the Lions and one against the Chargers. He won exactly zero starts that year. His 3rd best performance had a QB rating in the 70s, and no other game left the 50s.

Looking through his career game logs is depressing me. I'm going to stop now.

MichaelJordanEberle (sabf)
01-03-2012, 05:31 PM
I actually saw the Quinn flop coming. He looked great when he was playing **** teams and had tons of time to plant and throw down the field, but struggled mightily when pressure got to him, and he had to move around in the pocket and throw without setting his feet. Something every QB has to do in the NFL. I saw him really struggle with that and figured he'd never be a good QB. Didn't think he'd be THIS bad, though.

In the interest of full disclosure, however, let me say that I did think Jamarcus would be dominant.

BeerBaron
01-03-2012, 05:33 PM
see, i disagree. well, to a point. i certainly didn't think he was gabbert-like in college. but i *never* got the hype. for him or clausen. it's like the uniform makes people want to ignore flaws in guys. off the cuff, i can't honestly be much more specific, but i don't recall liking his accuracy that much in college either.

Alright, well I still contend that he wasn't this bad. Go look through his game logs if you have a strong stomach. He had like 3 decent games ever, one meh game and then just heaps and heaps of ****. Awful, awful ****.

NY+Giants=NYG
01-03-2012, 05:33 PM
Atlanta (5) at NYG (4)
- Perry Fewell's new gameplan of "rush 0, cover 11" fails spectacularly, allowing the Falcons to move up and down the field with ease. Eli Manning manages to lead the Giants into the red zone on every possession, but Kevin Gilbride uses a strategy of "3 straight draws to Brandon Jacobs" once there, killing every drive. Mike Mularkey's insistence on giving Michael Turner the ball when the pass is working so well (despite Turner averaging 2.0 YPC) is the only reason the Falcons don't score more.



Smartest non giants fan on the board! HAHA!

However, our stupid DC, has changed things up. It took him this long!!! HAHA, don't get me started on that. However, better late than never. He did that before the Jets game and so far we did well.

So let's see how Fewell does this game. We very well could be decent if he doesn't do stupid stuff. So I am taking a wait and see approach.r I still don't want him extended. So if we suck, he won't get re-signed!

One coordinator down then!


However, I won't see that would be the score. We very well could points on them too. How are their Cbs?

DraftSavant
01-03-2012, 05:38 PM
see, i disagree. well, to a point. i certainly didn't think he was gabbert-like in college. but i *never* got the hype. for him or clausen. it's like the uniform makes people want to ignore flaws in guys. off the cuff, i can't honestly be much more specific, but i don't recall liking his accuracy that much in college either.

I'll generally overlook flaws in guys if they're just absolutely carrying average-to-pathetic teams to relevance. And I thought without Quinn and The Shark (who I also liked as a prospect), that ND team was probably good for 3-5 wins.

I liked Quinn and hated Clausen. I dunno, I'm not really consistent in terms of "what I'm looking for", I just go with my gut and point out the guy's strengths and flaws. :shrug:

BeerBaron
01-03-2012, 05:39 PM
Smartest non giants fan on the board! HAHA!

However, our stupid DC, has changed things up. It took him this long!!! HAHA, don't get me started on that. However, better late than never. He did that before the Jets game and so far we did well.

So let's see how Fewell does this game. We very well could be decent if he doesn't do stupid stuff. So I am taking a wait and see approach.r I still don't want him extended. So if we suck, he won't get re-signed!

One coordinator down then!


However, I won't see that would be the score. We very well could points on them too. How are their Cbs?

Those playoff predictions were meant to just be sarcastic and funny...with just a hint of truth in the non-Tebow ones.

Anyway, their offensive line can struggle with protection, so you better bring your pass rush. 3 man rush zone coverage will get you killed against Ryan. Julio can be a beast and Gonzalez still knows how to sit in the holes in zones.

Defensively, well you can go look up what the Saints and Packers did to them. They can be spread out and shredded quite easily. John Abraham is the only person capable of generating a pass rush too.

BeerBaron
01-03-2012, 05:42 PM
I'll generally overlook flaws in guys if they're just absolutely carrying average-to-pathetic teams to relevance. And I thought without Quinn and The Shark (who I also liked as a prospect), that ND team was probably good for 3-5 wins.

I liked Quinn and hated Clausen. I dunno, I'm not really consistent in terms of "what I'm looking for", I just go with my gut and point out the guy's strengths and flaws. :shrug:

I too hated Clausen. I didn't think he'd be fish on dry land with it's head cut off bad....but, there he was. That Panthers team was awful, but members of the crowd would have looked more competent than he did.

yodabear
01-03-2012, 05:47 PM
The Rams suck. That coulda been the Rams summary.

Anyway my predictions.......

Cincinnati 22
Houston 9

New Orleans 45
Detroit 34

NY Giants 27
Atlanta 24

Pittsburgh 10
Denver 0

New Orleans 31
San Francisco 17

New England 42
Cincinnati 17

Baltimore 17
Pittsburgh 10

Green Bay 38
NY Giants 28

New England 20
Baltimore 17

Green Bay 41
New Orleans 35

New England 48
Green Bay 45

DraftSavant
01-03-2012, 05:48 PM
yeah, i dunno. quinn was the first 'gabbert' for me, by which i mean, the first guy i watched play and just thought, 'he doesn't have it. that is not an nfl qb.' like i said, i wouldn't actually compare them as players, but he just never passed my eye test.

Eye test is always the most reliable. Ignore the narrative, isolate the player.

BeerBaron
01-03-2012, 05:48 PM
The Rams suck. That coulda been the Rams summary.

New England 48
Green Bay 45

Yeah...I thought I'd be more eloquent though.

Also, you're picking the Superbowl, not the Fiesta Bowl Yoda...

yodabear
01-03-2012, 05:51 PM
Yeah...I thought I'd be more eloquent though.

Also, you're picking the Superbowl, not the Fiesta Bowl Yoda...

Yeah, those 2 teams don't exactly have defenses I love. It will be a high scoring game, especially if neither team turns it over.

NY+Giants=NYG
01-03-2012, 05:54 PM
Those playoff predictions were meant to just be sarcastic and funny...with just a hint of truth in the non-Tebow ones.

Anyway, their offensive line can struggle with protection, so you better bring your pass rush. 3 man rush zone coverage will get you killed against Ryan. Julio can be a beast and Gonzalez still knows how to sit in the holes in zones.

Defensively, well you can go look up what the Saints and Packers did to them. They can be spread out and shredded quite easily. John Abraham is the only person capable of generating a pass rush too.

We haven't been doing that as often. There have been changes, which have been late, but have been made non the less.

So the stupidity doesn't or I should better say, HASN'T been applicable for the past couple games since he made the change. This is good, and this has helped.

No more wide open people, with everyone saying they were in the right place.

I know John A. I am not worried, because we have to go against Ware, Babin, and Orakpo 2 X a year. If JA becomes an issue, I am sure we will leave Jacobs in to block. He better get there or they better blitz, because if not, and we have time to throw I expect Cruz, NIcks, and MM to get open a lot on them.

ATLDirtyBirds
01-03-2012, 06:23 PM
What would be funnier for round two is if the Falcons were lent Perry Fewell to combine with the Falcons to drop their allocated 7 players all back into coverage.

SuperMcGee
01-03-2012, 06:51 PM
Buffalo Bills - 6-10
They finished right about where I would have expected them to had I predicted in the preseason. They took a little detour and looked like a pretty good team at first, but crashed back down to earth pretty hard late in the season. I've commented before on why I think this is: too many missed early draft picks. While it's great to find hidden gems late in the draft, undrafted, or on the FA scrap heap, it's hard to build an upper echelon team this way. Guys like Fitzpatrick (for some of the year,) Stevie Johnson, Fred Jackson...good players all, but the Bills simply lacked the top end talent to contend when they weren't generating turnovers en masse (which they were doing early in the year.) Years of misses on guys tracing back to JP Losman, John McCargo, Aaron Maybin, James Hardy and CJ Spiller and Leodis McKelvin to a lesser degree have hurt. Even some of the guys who had moderate success are no longer with the team such as Posluzny, Marshawn, Whitner, Lee Evans. You just can't build an NFL franchise off the scrap heap with limited elite talent. And this was very evident in Buffalo this year.


I think this team could have been .500 if Kyle Williams, Eric Wood, and Fred Jackson (Merriman also would've been greatly helpful, but we knew he wouldn't last) were healthy. That would have doubled our win total from last year.

To be quite honest, though, our last two first round picks actually looked good in relief of our two best players (Williams/Jackson). Dareus leads off a strong draft and looks very, very promising. Would've been great to have both out there, but the rookie held his own and then some. I think the jury was out way too early on Spiller. I'm still concerned about how they want to handle his touches moving forward, but he impressed over the past 5 weeks of the year: 5.8 ypc, 563 yards from scrimmage, 5 touchdowns. He can't do everything Jackson does and he can still be seen as an unnecessary pick, but his talent is certainly showing.
Hell, after the Maybin pick in '09 we got what could very possibly be 3 of the 5 best players on this team. Wood, Byrd, and Levitre were all selected in the top 50 picks and were some of the best in the league at their positions this year.

The names that most stick out to me on the list of busts in regards to our current troubles would be Maybin (derp) and Hardy. Our outside pass rush is absolutely terrible. Words cannot express how much I still miss Aaron Schobel. We were really banking on Mayhem when we switched to 3-4. When that didn't work, we put our chips in with a longshot in Merriman. We've never been able to make this work.
Last time I felt like we had two good receivers was Lee Evans' rookie season. When the passing game was figured out, there was definitely no talent to naturally overcome it. Stevie is a good one, but the rest are interchangeable parts. I like Nelson's body in the slot, but I don't trust him nor any other receiver besides Johnson to run a great route or beat a man. They're just not that good. Chandler was a nice surprise at tight end, I'll give him that.

And I don't think you'll disagree with this, but a lot of the blame for this team's shortcomings in the second half belongs to the man entrusted to lead the franchise. Fitzpatrick had the most interceptions in the league this season and only ten touchdowns in the final 9 weeks. Accuracy issues became a lot more noticeable, especially on the longball. The difference we've seen in him in the first half and second half of the past two seasons has to be a concern, especially in a cold weather town.
Sep + Oct (12 games) 26 TD, 12 INT
Nov + Dec (17 games) 21 TD, 26 INT

BeerBaron
01-03-2012, 07:54 PM
Injuries and Fitzpatrick's decline definitely played parts, no doubt about it. But when you have a few guys hurt, but good talent elsewhere you can overcome the injuries.

Once a few guys like Jackson and the o-lineman started going down, the Bills took a nosedive in overall team performance.

And yeah, the biggest misfire on that list has to Maybin. He was beyond worthless there, and I could have told you it would happen. He played around 220 at Penn State, using nothing but speed to get pressure. He bulks up, loses what little lateral ability he had and became a big pancake target.

And worst of all, unlike Spiller who, while an "unnecessary" pick as you call him, was the best overall pick available at the time probably, Maybin was taken two picks in front of Orakpo and four in front of Cushing, two guys who would be extremly helpful to have in that front 7.

OzTitan
01-03-2012, 08:11 PM
I think the Titans are a team that, next year, might take a step back record wise but actually put a superior product on the field if that makes sense. 9-7 was a bit of an overachievement this year.

It does make sense - the list of QBs the Titans face next season in the National Quarterback League is pretty hefty - Brady, Rodgers, Stafford, Ben, Rivers, Cutler, Schaub x 2, possibly Manning x 2. 10 games where the Titans will probably have the QB vs QB disadvantage.

9-7 is about right looking at how the Titans D did, especially scoring, but offensively - yeah that was an overachievement. Weird thing is they were really close to winning at few more but I don't really recall many wins that were as close, except the 2pt conversion drama against the Texans, so it was close to being a massive overachivement in a year where no other winning team didn't make the post season.

Rosebud
01-03-2012, 11:29 PM
If the Steelers just pressure Tebow all game like the Chiefs, they will have no trouble at all. I really don't see the Broncos beating the Steelers at all, this isn't a situation like the Seahawks last year where they have a massive home field advantage.

Playing in Denver makes them a lot more dangerous offensively...That mile high air makes Prater a viable option from much further back...

MichaelJordanEberle (sabf)
01-03-2012, 11:45 PM
Maybe we'll win 27-24, with those 9 field goals coming from 55+. Probably the likeliest victory scenario I've heard.

Rosebud
01-03-2012, 11:48 PM
Maybe we'll win 27-24, with those 9 field goals coming from 55+. Probably the likeliest victory scenario I've heard.

I'm thinking 5 FGs and some Tebow magic for the 22-20 win.

Brodeur
01-03-2012, 11:48 PM
Playing in Denver makes them a lot more dangerous offensively...That mile high air makes Prater a viable option from much further back...

They did absolutely nothing on Sunday, and the only 3 points they got was from a Javier Arenas fuckup on a punt return.

Rosebud
01-03-2012, 11:49 PM
They did absolutely nothing on Sunday, and the only 3 points they got was from a Javier Arenas fuckup on a punt return.

That's what you call playing possum, make the last thing teams have seem of them so absolutely incompetent that they don't take their preparation for the game seriously and **** up. It's all part of God's plan.

D-Unit
01-04-2012, 02:15 AM
If you give Dallas credit for having a lot of talent, how can you crucify the guy who accummulated it?

BeerBaron
01-04-2012, 06:01 AM
If you give Dallas credit for having a lot of talent, how can you crucify the guy who accummulated it?

They shouldn't be 8-8 with that talent. They shouldn't be blowing so many 4th quarter leads. And Jason Garrett probably shouldn't be the head coach.

They've won exactly one playoff game in the last 15 years. No GM who isn't also the owner would survive that. He tried that with Bill Parcells who was there when they acquired several of the players I listed: Romo, Witten and Ware. But, Jones couldn't stay out of the way and drove Parcells off after he put the core of the team together.

Byrd430
01-04-2012, 09:14 AM
Hit the nail on the head with the Cowboys.

The great pieces that we have with the guys you mentioned plus standouts like Miles Austin and Jay Ratliff kind of disguises us as this uber-talented team that should have no problem winning, where playoffs should be a guarantee, and the Super Bowl within reach every year.

But it's just a disguise!

Every year, I hear people bash Tony Romo for not being able to win with this team, but this team's problems go FAR beyond anything Romo has done.

I've seen our offensive line get manhandled by teams in crucial games (see Giants game this past weekend, vs. Vikings in 2009-2010 playoffs, etc.). We have a sporadic running game headlined by whoever can limp out on the field that week, which makes us more one-dimensional, which puts EVEN MORE pressure on Romo and allows teams to more easily exploit our O-line issues. We have no pass rushing threat dominant enough to open up Ware more freely. (SIDE NOTE: Isn't it even more incredible that Ware has accomplished what he has while being the lone consistent pass rush in Dallas for about his whole career?) Our secondary, which needed an upgrade five years ago, STILL has not gotten an upgrade.

So, while we do have several bright spots on the team, they are only covering up some ugly eyesores that continues to cost the Cowboys wins.

BeerBaron
01-04-2012, 09:22 AM
Hit the nail on the head with the Cowboys.

The great pieces that we have with the guys you mentioned plus standouts like Miles Austin and Jay Ratliff kind of disguises us as this uber-talented team that should have no problem winning, where playoffs should be a guarantee, and the Super Bowl within reach every year.

But it's just a disguise!

Every year, I hear people bash Tony Romo for not being able to win with this team, but this team's problems go FAR beyond anything Romo has done.

I've seen our offensive line get manhandled by teams in crucial games (see Giants game this past weekend, vs. Vikings in 2009-2010 playoffs, etc.). We have a sporadic running game headlined by whoever can limp out on the field that week, which makes us more one-dimensional, which puts EVEN MORE pressure on Romo and allows teams to more easily exploit our O-line issues. We have no pass rushing threat dominant enough to open up Ware more freely. (SIDE NOTE: Isn't it even more incredible that Ware has accomplished what he has while being the lone consistent pass rush in Dallas for about his whole career?) Our secondary, which needed an upgrade five years ago, STILL has not gotten an upgrade.

So, while we do have several bright spots on the team, they are only covering up some ugly eyesores that continues to cost the Cowboys wins.

The Cowboys are a gilded team in what I like to call the NFL's Gilded Division.

Every year, the teams within get talked up as definite Superbowl contenders. (The media is mostly guilty of this, though it will creep in here from time to time.)

But seemingly every year, they disappoint. The Cowboys and Eagles are both great examples this year who flopped. Yes, both have some stud talent in key spots, but they cover up some massive flaws. Even the Giants, who've provided the division with it's only Superbowl win since...the early 90s?...did so in a year where they were a wildcard team.

And this year, only the existence of the utterly mediocre AFC West kept them from being the worst division in football, sending a 9-7 division winner to the playoffs.

It's gold on the outside and rotten on the inside, and the Cowboys are the epitome of that. Great players in some spots, but not enough to cover for poor management (like I said earlier, nearly all of their best players were acquired when Parcells was running the show,) poor coaching (Jason "god damned offensive genius" Garrett and his TE screens, non-committal to the running game and timeouts....), and gaping holes in some spots that are never fully addressed (secondary, o-line to a lesser extent.)

Jerry Jones GMed teams are something like 1-6 or 1-7 in the last 15 years. Any other GM would have been fired long ago...he should fire himself as GM, hire a "football guru" like he did with Parcells and then actually let that guy run the show.

Jerry is basically what one of us would be as an owner. I'd love it and want badly to be involved in football operations...but I know that I probably shouldn't be.

Giantsfan1080
01-04-2012, 09:28 AM
The NFC East was not good this year but since 1990 it has been one of the better division most years. I know the be all end all is Super Bowl wins but it still doesn't take away what these teams do in the regular season. The Eagles and Giants have the best regular season record in the NFC since 1990 only behind the Packers. It's hard to take away from that.

Byrd430
01-04-2012, 09:36 AM
It always seems to be a three-team battle in the NFC East for the division. It's not far fetched to believe that we could replay this season and have three different division champs. That alone makes it tough.

BeerBaron
01-04-2012, 09:38 AM
The NFC East was not good this year but since 1990 it has been one of the better division most years. I know the be all end all is Super Bowl wins but it still doesn't take away what these teams do in the regular season. The Eagles and Giants have the best regular season record in the NFC since 1990 only behind the Packers. It's hard to take away from that.

The Eagles choked and choked and choked...then dry heaved when they finally got to the Superbowl. They wasted Jim Johnson's prime defense with an inaccurate, unclutch QB and a head coach that seemed unprepared for big games.

The teams are constantly overrated by the media and are probably the division most-picked-from before each season to have a team win the Superbowl. I get sick of it because they just aren't deserving of that. East coast bias and all that I suppose.

This year, it was the 2nd worst division in football. Last year they had a one and done division winner in the playoffs. Before that, the Cowboys had their best run in going on 20 years, and got stomped by the Vikings.

It's just not as good of division as it's cracked up to be by the media. That is my point.

It always seems to be a three-team battle in the NFC East for the division. It's not far fetched to believe that we could replay this season and have three different division champs. That alone makes it tough.

Tough is relative to division. How deep of playoff run do you realistically think any of those potential champs would have made? The Eagles seemed to be the hottest team at the end when they put it all together....but I wouldn't have any of them as my favorites. Maybe not even 2nd or 3rd favorites in the NFC.

Giantsfan1080
01-04-2012, 09:45 AM
I agree that this year it is a crappy division. It's been the first year ever that a 9-7 team won the division. Last year though the Giants were 10-6 and didn't make the playoffs. I think there is definitely some East Coast bias but it's still been a very very good division over the last 10 years.

bigbluedefense
01-04-2012, 10:06 AM
Ahhh yes. I call it the Perry Fewell Special....

Byrd430
01-04-2012, 10:11 AM
You could kind of make that case about any division though couldn't you?

It's just that most divisions have that one dominant team that stays at the top and the rest are playoff fodder. The only thing the NFC East hasn't done is win multiple titles, but then again, neither have the NFC North, NFC West, AFC South, or AFC West. Then, you have the Patriots ruling the AFC East (If you want to argue for the Jets, then I'll give it to you, but they didn't look the part of back-to-back AFC Championship games), the Steelers ruling the AFC North (the Ravens look like a general NFC East team by your definition), and the Saints in the NFC South (Atlanta has done nothing in playoffs).

DiG
01-04-2012, 10:14 AM
Washington Redskins - 5-11
It looks like the Shanahan's will survive another down year. The QB situation is what killed them, and even going all out for one of the top QB prospects isn't going to be an instant fix. I think the Redskins more than any team should go full bore after Peyton Manning in off chance he does become available. (Unlikely, as explained previously.) Failing that...I think the Redskins are in trouble again next season, and it will mark the end of the Shanahan regime in Washington. Or will they win the Superbowl, eh JCBX?


I think you're way off on this one BeerBaron. The point in bringing in the Shanahans was not a quick fix super bowl or "instant fixes". The point was to change the dynamics/mindset of the front office and build for long term success. You can already see those changes taking shape with the recent draft, the already added draft picks for 2012, and the handling of free agency since Shanahan and Allen have come on board. The days of overspending for old vet big name free agents is behind this team. Shanahans going to be here for his full 5 year term and will be given every opportunity to put a core in place.

BeerBaron
01-04-2012, 10:17 AM
You could kind of make that case about any division though couldn't you?

It's just that most divisions have that one dominant team that stays at the top and the rest are playoff fodder. The only thing the NFC East hasn't done is win multiple titles, but then again, neither have the NFC North, NFC West, AFC South, or AFC West. Then, you have the Patriots ruling the AFC East (If you want to argue for the Jets, then I'll give it to you, but they didn't look the part of back-to-back AFC Championship games), the Steelers ruling the AFC North (the Ravens look like a general NFC East team by your definition), and the Saints in the NFC South (Atlanta has done nothing in playoffs).

I'm not sure I understand. The Patriots are a #1 seed and legitimate Superbowl contender. As are the Ravens and Steelers. As are the Packers. As are the Saints. Even the 49ers this year. All but the Steelers are division winners and all are legitimate Superbowl contenders.

Even the Jets, whether they looked the part or not, got to back to back conference title games. Which is a better post season performance than anyone but the actual Superbowl winners the last two years.

My point is just that the NFC East gets unjustly promoted as this dominant division who should send 3 teams to the playoffs every year and should always be producing a real Superbowl threat....they haven't been in recent years. At least not any more than any other division.

BeerBaron
01-04-2012, 10:25 AM
I think you're way off on this one BeerBaron. The point in bringing in the Shanahans was not a quick fix super bowl or "instant fixes". The point was to change the dynamics/mindset of the front office and build for long term success. You can already see those changes taking shape with the recent draft, the already added draft picks for 2012, and the handling of free agency since Shanahan and Allen have come on board. The days of overspending for old vet big name free agents is behind this team. Shanahans going to be here for his full 5 year term and will be given every opportunity to put a core in place.

If they don't make the playoffs next year I guarantee you he gets fired. Rightfully or not.

And the handling of the QB situation has been abysmal. 99.9999999% of anyone with even the slightest football intelligence knew that a combination of Rex Grossman and John Beck was going to fail. You absolutely can not win in this league without some talent and stability at the QB position.

And what are you going to do to fix it? You're likely out of range for Luck or Griffin, so without sacrificing those draft picks you have for the first time in a long time, you aren't getting a top QB prospect. Do you settle/reach for Landry Jones or Tannehill? That isn't going to help you win soon either.

Look at free agency? You could go after Matt Flynn, but the jury is completely out. Just way too small of sample size for me to be comfortable with a team paying him top FA dollars and anointing him as the starter.

If the Redskins arent' in the playoffs next year, I can all but guarantee than this regime gets canned. Only the existence of Jerry Jones keeps Dan Snyder from being the most obstructive owner in the sport, and at least Jerry sometimes finds stud players.

Those guys can go more damage even more than cheap owners. At least with a cheap owner, you know you'll have to build through the draft. And there will likely be some coaching/front office stability because the cheap owner won't want to pay those guys for doing nothing if he fires them with time left on their contracts.

Three straight years of no playoffs wouldn't keep a coach his job anywhere in the modern NFL. There are no more 5 year plans. You get maybe 2 before your seat gets really, really hot if you don't have success.

DiG
01-04-2012, 10:47 AM
If they don't make the playoffs next year I guarantee you he gets fired. Rightfully or not.

Agree to disagree. Another 4-5 win season maybe but it will not be playoffs of bust for Shanahan. Especially if he has a rookie QB.

And the handling of the QB situation has been abysmal. 99.9999999% of anyone with even the slightest football intelligence knew that a combination of Rex Grossman and John Beck was going to fail. You absolutely can not win in this league without some talent and stability at the QB position.

I don't disagree with the handling of Rex/Beck this year but what was the alternative? Gabbert at 10? Matt Moore? Jake Delhomme? The Skins would have taken Newton in the first and supposedly were ready to move up in rd 2 for Dalton if he fell 2-3 more spots. The coaches scouted the hell out of last years QB class and I'm ok that they didn't draft someone they didnt want just to draft someone.

And what are you going to do to fix it? You're likely out of range for Luck or Griffin, so without sacrificing those draft picks you have for the first time in a long time, you aren't getting a top QB prospect. Do you settle/reach for Landry Jones or Tannehill? That isn't going to help you win soon either.

Look at free agency? You could go after Matt Flynn, but the jury is completely out. Just way too small of sample size for me to be comfortable with a team paying him top FA dollars and anointing him as the starter.

We are not out of range to move up for Griffin and given the amount of picks we do have we can still move up and have a successful class this year and next. And until we are closer to draft day and there is more time for the FO to scout QBs you cannot say that we arent in a position to address QB. I'm sure Flynn will get a look but I don't think that he will be the answer.

If the Redskins arent' in the playoffs next year, I can all but guarantee than this regime gets canned. Only the existence of Jerry Jones keeps Dan Snyder from being the most obstructive owner in the sport, and at least Jerry sometimes finds stud players.

Those guys can go more damage even more than cheap owners. At least with a cheap owner, you know you'll have to build through the draft. And there will likely be some coaching/front office stability because the cheap owner won't want to pay those guys for doing nothing if he fires them with time left on their contracts.

Three straight years of no playoffs wouldn't keep a coach his job anywhere in the modern NFL. There are no more 5 year plans. You get maybe 2 before your seat gets really, really hot if you don't have success.

I'd take that bet. I'm not saying there no way he gets fired. If this team wins 2-3 games then sure I could see it but lets say we pick up a new qb and finish with 7-8 wins and a lot of promise from whoever our new "franchise" qb is...that happens and I can all but guarantee shanahan isn't fired.

BeerBaron
01-04-2012, 10:52 AM
If it becomes apparent that the Colts are taking Luck, the Rams will likely be able to have an all out auction for the #2 pick for Griffin. Too many QB needy teams and not enough good QBs to go around.

And even your "7-8 wins and a lot of promise from whoever your new "franchise" qb is" may not be enough depending on when the losses happen. Look at the Chargers and Eagles this year. Both teams had coaches on the hot seat and had horrific spans of losses...yet both finished the season strong and kept their jobs. Had those losing streaks happened at the end of the season, I can guarantee you they are out of work.

We're just going to have to agree to disagree, as I don't see Shanahan surviving another non-playoff season.

Dallas357
01-04-2012, 11:18 AM
loving all the gabbert hate. most hated player in the history of the nfl?

BeerBaron
01-04-2012, 11:22 AM
loving all the gabbert hate. most hated player in the history of the nfl?

"Hate" is strong. It's not like I hate the person and am wishing death on his family. (I reserve that for Bill Polian.)

But the guy pretty clearly had terrible flaws in college that should have kept him out of the first and probably even second round at least. Anyone with a brain could see this.

But the Jaguars take him in the first round and thrust him into the starting role. (It was only a matter of time considering Luke McCown was the only vet on the roster after they cut Garrard.)

So here we are...with this extremely raw passer with multiple crippling flaws starting in the NFL. And it has made for some of the worst performances I've ever seen out of a QB.

I only point this out because it's true. Not out of hate.

DraftSavant
01-04-2012, 11:33 AM
"Hate" is strong. It's not like I hate the person and am wishing death on his family. (I reserve that for Bill Polian.)

But the guy pretty clearly had terrible flaws in college that should have kept him out of the first and probably even second round at least. Anyone with a brain could see this.

But the Jaguars take him in the first round and thrust him into the starting role. (It was only a matter of time considering Luke McCown was the only vet on the roster after they cut Garrard.)

So here we are...with this extremely raw passer with multiple crippling flaws starting in the NFL. And it has made for some of the worst performances I've ever seen out of a QB.

I only point this out because it's true. Not out of hate.

It's not "hate," but there's no doubt that there was an incredibly strong anti-Gabbert backlash on here because of

a) his inexplicable ascension up draft boards right after declaring (I still honestly believe a lot of this is due to the Tom Condon/CAA hype job - a la Sanchez. Todd McShay was Gabbert and Sanchez's biggest dickrider. No coincidence that he's represented by CAA, I'm sure)
b) the natural

I wouldn't say I "hate" Gabbert, but I intensely disliked him as a prospect. When my TV announced that the Redskins had moved out of the 10 spot and the Jaguars had moved up, I knew immediately what they were doing and promptly decided that Gene Smith was a complete fuckwit. This is a GM who promotes "base hits" early in the draft, and proceeded to trade up for the biggest project QB in this draft class.

Sorry, I'm rambling.

To wrap up, people don't hate Gabbert directly. They hate the ridiculous, undeserved hype he got pre-draft.

JBCX
01-04-2012, 11:34 AM
After reading this article about Bill Polian written by an Indianapolis media member who dealt with him regularly, I have a better understading of why people hate Polian with a passion:

http://blogs.indystar.com/philb/2012/01/04/polian-dismissal-means-no-more-fear/


I had a friend who landed a job with the Colts many years ago. The first time we ran into each other in a complex hallway, I congratulated him. All I received was a nod as he kept walking. I didn’t know what to think. After the work day, my friend phoned to apologize.

“You understand why I can’t stop and talk to you in the building,” he said.

I didn’t.

He was afraid Polian would see us exchanging pleasantries.

“He hates all of us, too,” the friend said.

That stuck with me. I couldn’t get that memory out of my head when we learned Polian and his son, Chris, were fired.

There are other stories, too, stories that don’t get mentioned when trying to explain why a six-time NFL Executive of the Year would be given a pink slip after one incredibly bad 2-14 season. Owner Jim Irsay does have class. He can make reference to “deficiencies” without saying anything more. He knew that we knew, those of us who have been there for years.

I was reminded recently about how a former Colts player was in a hallway, talking to a then-current player, when Polian walked up. The boss didn’t care for the former player, and refused to acknowledge the man’s presence. A short time later, a nearby phone rang. The current player explained the former player had to leave.

BeerBaron
01-04-2012, 11:38 AM
His rise was insane. I though maybe there were two Blaine Gabberts, because the one I was watching at Missouri did not look like a top 10 draft pick. Not even a top 100 draft pick.

Once Luck went back to school, **** hit the fan. Last year's QB class was one of the most heavily flawed I've ever seen. Yes, Newton would go on to play great, but even his strongest supporters have to admit that the guy had plenty of question marks. Locker at 7...Gabbert at 10...Ponder in the first round....what?

Desperation leads to some crazy things. I said a few times last year that if I absolutely had to choose one of those QBs, gun to my head, I would have taken Locker and just hoped and prayed. I really didn't like any of them.

But Gabbert that high, with the flaws he clearly displayed while still in college...insane.

Iamcanadian
01-04-2012, 01:00 PM
His rise was insane. I though maybe there were two Blaine Gabberts, because the one I was watching at Missouri did not look like a top 10 draft pick. Not even a top 100 draft pick.

Once Luck went back to school, **** hit the fan. Last year's QB class was one of the most heavily flawed I've ever seen. Yes, Newton would go on to play great, but even his strongest supporters have to admit that the guy had plenty of question marks. Locker at 7...Gabbert at 10...Ponder in the first round....what?

Desperation leads to some crazy things. I said a few times last year that if I absolutely had to choose one of those QBs, gun to my head, I would have taken Locker and just hoped and prayed. I really didn't like any of them.

But Gabbert that high, with the flaws he clearly displayed while still in college...insane.

Well, the Panthers obviously saw plenty to like in Newton, showing just how poor a QB appraiser that most of the people on this site are. It suggests that Locker, Gabbert and Ponder may all turnout to be better than we thought.
Gabbert is the youngest QB in the league, just a boy compared to Locker and Ponder, he could easily in 3 years turnout to be the 2nd best QB of the bunch.
In fact, the 2011 draft could possibly go down as one of the best QB classes of all time when you include Dalton among the group so just maybe, you shouldn't rush to judgment too fast and give them all time to develop before going off on a tangent about their potential.
I'm not saying they will all succeed but it is way too early to call any of them flops.

jrdrylie
01-04-2012, 02:08 PM
For as bad as Gabbert has been all year (and he has been very bad), there have been times during the last two games where he has looked like an NFL QB. He didn't play great in either of these games. But there were glimpses, albeit few and far between, that give Jaguar fans hope that maybe Gabbert can vastly improve with a new coach and a full offseason.

BeerBaron
01-04-2012, 02:11 PM
For as bad as Gabbert has been all year (and he has been very bad), there have been times during the last two games where he has looked like an NFL QB. He didn't play great in either of these games. But there were glimpses, albeit few and far between, that give Jaguar fans hope that maybe Gabbert can vastly improve with a new coach and a full offseason.

J'Marcus Russell threw a few TD passes, but that didn't make him any better.

After having witnessed the guy play (a few too many times for my liking...) I don't seen an NFL QB in Blaine Gabbert. He doesn't have "it." That indescribable "it" that all the great ones or even semi-good ones have.

Blaine Gabbert never takes his eyes off the pass rush and crumples as soon as he has someone bearing down on him. While a great one would stand in there and take the hit to get the football off, Gabbert huddles into the fetal position.

There is no place for a player like that on an NFL field.

D-Unit
01-04-2012, 03:05 PM
They shouldn't be 8-8 with that talent. They shouldn't be blowing so many 4th quarter leads. And Jason Garrett probably shouldn't be the head coach.

They've won exactly one playoff game in the last 15 years. No GM who isn't also the owner would survive that. He tried that with Bill Parcells who was there when they acquired several of the players I listed: Romo, Witten and Ware. But, Jones couldn't stay out of the way and drove Parcells off after he put the core of the team together.
I can understand the blame on Jason Garrett. Not being a good playcaller and all.

But your solution is to have Jerry hire a GM. GMs have the job of acquiring talent. As you admit, Jerry has done a good job at that. The team is talented, but it underperforms. That shouldn't point back to the GM... unless you're criticizing his choice of HC.

Jerry is far from perfect, but I feel like the public loves to criticize him unfairly. My main beef with him comes with his mismanagement of FA. Both underpursuing good FAs and overspending on bad contracts. The dead money kills us.

As for Parcells... let's not let the media twist your opinion here. Jerry wanted BP to stay and he didn't chase him out by any means. BP wanted to get out of head coaching to pursue the role of GM and control football operations. He simply wasn't gonna get that in Dallas, so he moved on and got it in Miami. That's what Bill wanted.

bigbluedefense
01-04-2012, 03:10 PM
I can understand the blame on Jason Garrett. Not being a good playcaller and all.

But your solution is to have Jerry hire a GM. GMs have the job of acquiring talent. As you admit, Jerry has done a good job at that. The team is talented, but it underperforms. That shouldn't point back to the GM... unless you're criticizing his choice of HC.

Jerry is far from perfect, but I feel like the public loves to criticize him unfairly. My main beef with him comes with his mismanagement of FA. Both underpursuing good FAs and overspending on bad contracts. The dead money kills us.

As for Parcells... let's not let the media twist your opinion here. Jerry wanted BP to stay and he didn't chase him out by any means. BP wanted to get out of head coaching to pursue the role of GM and control football operations. He simply wasn't gonna get that in Dallas, so he moved on and got it in Miami. That's what Bill wanted.

The problem in Dallas has always been that the perception of talent far exceeds the talent on the field.

Every year it's perceived that the Cowboys are very talented, when truthfully, they're not. So expectations are set higher than they should be, and it's always the coaches fault for "underachieving"

The truth is, Dallas is a team that lacks serious talent on defense and their record shows it. Talent is very much part of the problem.

We (ppl outside the Cowboys fanbase) always say there's no such thing as an underrated Cowboy. Bc every time you guys have a player that's remotely good, you blow him up to be the 2nd coming of *insert HOFer*

That's why the team is perceived to be better than it is, so when it "underperforms" everyone wants to pin it on everything other than talent.

And that's simply not true.

Jvig43
01-04-2012, 03:12 PM
The problem in Dallas has always been that the perception of talent far exceeds the talent on the field.

Every year it's perceived that the Cowboys are very talented, when truthfully, they're not. So expectations are set higher than they should be, and it's always the coaches fault for "underachieving"

The truth is, Dallas is a team that lacks serious talent on defense and their record shows it. Talent is very much part of the problem.

We (ppl outside the Cowboys fanbase) always say there's no such thing as an underrated Cowboy. Bc every time you guys have a player that's remotely good, you blow him up to be the 2nd coming of *insert HOFer*

That's why the team is perceived to be better than it is, so when it "underperforms" everyone wants to pin it on everything other than talent.

And that's simply not true.

This. Example "Dez Bryant is the best WR in the NFC east". Not true.

Also "Robinson never drops a ball, runs a 4.32, is 7'10 etc..." .

Saints-Tigers
01-04-2012, 03:21 PM
Iamcanadian supports every decision ever made by every GM. Nothing to see here.

Raiderz4Life
01-04-2012, 03:23 PM
Iamcanadian supports every decision ever made by every GM. Nothing to see here.

Yea pretty much. To him they are perfect beings who make no mistake and are undoubtedly 100Xs better than us because they are given a title and we don't have it.

D-Unit
01-04-2012, 03:26 PM
The problem in Dallas has always been that the perception of talent far exceeds the talent on the field.

Every year it's perceived that the Cowboys are very talented, when truthfully, they're not. So expectations are set higher than they should be, and it's always the coaches fault for "underachieving"

The truth is, Dallas is a team that lacks serious talent on defense and their record shows it. Talent is very much part of the problem.

We (ppl outside the Cowboys fanbase) always say there's no such thing as an underrated Cowboy. Bc every time you guys have a player that's remotely good, you blow him up to be the 2nd coming of *insert HOFer*

That's why the team is perceived to be better than it is, so when it "underperforms" everyone wants to pin it on everything other than talent.

And that's simply not true.
I think when people think of the Cowboys they think of the star power at the offensive skill positions, and their star power is legitimately good. There are some folks that are overrated elsewhere, but every team has a few. Doug Free at LT failed... Jay Ratliff at NT continues to fail... Martellus Bennett, epitome of fail... Marcus Spears, horrifically overrated by our management....next is Anthony Spencer who I think will be overrated too and get a huge contract that he doesn't deserve.

But it's the true weaknesses that continue to plague the team. Their weaknesses aren't just bad, they are horrific. ...and in football, you simply cannot get by such putrid play. You're only as strong as your weakest link or your ability to cover for or hide them. Terence Newman and Alan Ball are too terrible to handle. Everyone else can do their job, but if the opposition targets them the whole time, what can you do?

Offensively, the OL was hideous all season long. The best player was a rookie and everyone else failed. They entered the season with intentions of starting a converted RT at LT, a rookie 7th rounder who didn't even start in college (Bill Nagy), an undrafted 2nd year Center who never started a game in Phil Costa, moved Kosier from LG to RG (which completely threw him off) and a rookie RT. It was destined to fail from the start and I said it when the season began. I didn't predict the playoffs for us, but I got hopeful when DeMarco Murray came on.

The choice to have that OL was Garrett's. He wanted to weed out Gurode, Davis and he had the mindset of going young and the unit developing together after drafting Smith. He knew his job security was strong enough to handle OL growing pains, but I think even he thought it would go better than it did. It didn't and I knew it. Cowboys fans have been calling me a hater in our forums. I'm glad the truth has been revealed about the suck suck SUCKINESS of our OL and secondary.

BeerBaron
01-04-2012, 03:33 PM
I can understand the blame on Jason Garrett. Not being a good playcaller and all.

But your solution is to have Jerry hire a GM. GMs have the job of acquiring talent. As you admit, Jerry has done a good job at that. The team is talented, but it underperforms. That shouldn't point back to the GM... unless you're criticizing his choice of HC.

Jerry is far from perfect, but I feel like the public loves to criticize him unfairly. My main beef with him comes with his mismanagement of FA. Both underpursuing good FAs and overspending on bad contracts. The dead money kills us.

As for Parcells... let's not let the media twist your opinion here. Jerry wanted BP to stay and he didn't chase him out by any means. BP wanted to get out of head coaching to pursue the role of GM and control football operations. He simply wasn't gonna get that in Dallas, so he moved on and got it in Miami. That's what Bill wanted.

The problem in Dallas has always been that the perception of talent far exceeds the talent on the field.

Every year it's perceived that the Cowboys are very talented, when truthfully, they're not. So expectations are set higher than they should be, and it's always the coaches fault for "underachieving"

The truth is, Dallas is a team that lacks serious talent on defense and their record shows it. Talent is very much part of the problem.

We (ppl outside the Cowboys fanbase) always say there's no such thing as an underrated Cowboy. Bc every time you guys have a player that's remotely good, you blow him up to be the 2nd coming of *insert HOFer*

That's why the team is perceived to be better than it is, so when it "underperforms" everyone wants to pin it on everything other than talent.

And that's simply not true.

Ok, I'm in between here...

D-Unit: Hiring a GM would also take away Jerry's personal attachment to players and coaches, which I think is a big part of the problem. He LOVES Jason Garrett. He LOVES Dez Bryant. You'll hear guys get called "Jerry's guys" quite a bit. Alan Ball was an example 2 years ago. I saw him starting in the preseason and asked about him, and one of the Cowboys fans told me he was a "Jerry guy." He has no business being on the team...he's terrible. But if true and Jerry has a special attachment to him, that's bad.

Now, I did mention some areas of talent. But you'll also note (not sure if in the same post or one later after it) that many of the Cowboys best players right now were brought in during the Parcells era. Romo, Ware, Witten in his first draft with the team, Jay Ratliff....

When Parcells had "control," the team improved dramatically. Before that, how many years were wasted with Quincy Carter? Drew Henson? Chad Hutchinson? Troy Hambrick? All "Jerry's Guys" types.

Jerry needs to remove himself from the football side of things and just sign checks. They've won a whopping 1 playoff game in the last 15 years. Any GM who isn't also the owner would have been fired years ago.

To BBD: They DO have talent. Not as much as the media or Cowboys fans like to think, but it's not as dire as you make it seem.

I do think Tony Romo is a top 10 QB. Dez Bryant has top 10 WR type talent. He's not in the top 10 yet, but could be...he's talented enough to get there and shows flashes of that. Witten is one of the most well rounded TEs in the game. Sean Lee looks like he'll be a perennial pro-bowler headed forward. And Ware...he came half a sack shy of being the first player ever to eclipse 20 sacks in a season twice, and he's half a sack away from being one of, if not thee fastest guys to get to 100 career sacks.

But, like you say, there are horrific gaping holes. Most notably the secondary and left 4/5 of the o-line. Maybe just the middle 3/5 on a good day.

So the truth is somewhere in the middle, as always. The Cowboys have extremely good talent in a few places, and extremely bad in several others. And they have a controlling owner/GM who makes poor head coaching hires (aka, guys who won't fight his control) and gets personally involved in too many football aspects of the team.

D-Unit
01-04-2012, 04:11 PM
Ok, I'm in between here...

D-Unit: Hiring a GM would also take away Jerry's personal attachment to players and coaches, which I think is a big part of the problem. He LOVES Jason Garrett. He LOVES Dez Bryant. You'll hear guys get called "Jerry's guys" quite a bit. Alan Ball was an example 2 years ago. I saw him starting in the preseason and asked about him, and one of the Cowboys fans told me he was a "Jerry guy." He has no business being on the team...he's terrible. But if true and Jerry has a special attachment to him, that's bad.

Now, I did mention some areas of talent. But you'll also note (not sure if in the same post or one later after it) that many of the Cowboys best players right now were brought in during the Parcells era. Romo, Ware, Witten in his first draft with the team, Jay Ratliff....

When Parcells had "control," the team improved dramatically. Before that, how many years were wasted with Quincy Carter? Drew Henson? Chad Hutchinson? Troy Hambrick? All "Jerry's Guys" types.

Jerry needs to remove himself from the football side of things and just sign checks. They've won a whopping 1 playoff game in the last 15 years. Any GM who isn't also the owner would have been fired years ago.

To BBD: They DO have talent. Not as much as the media or Cowboys fans like to think, but it's not as dire as you make it seem.

I do think Tony Romo is a top 10 QB. Dez Bryant has top 10 WR type talent. He's not in the top 10 yet, but could be...he's talented enough to get there and shows flashes of that. Witten is one of the most well rounded TEs in the game. Sean Lee looks like he'll be a perennial pro-bowler headed forward. And Ware...he came half a sack shy of being the first player ever to eclipse 20 sacks in a season twice, and he's half a sack away from being one of, if not thee fastest guys to get to 100 career sacks.

But, like you say, there are horrific gaping holes. Most notably the secondary and left 4/5 of the o-line. Maybe just the middle 3/5 on a good day.

So the truth is somewhere in the middle, as always. The Cowboys have extremely good talent in a few places, and extremely bad in several others. And they have a controlling owner/GM who makes poor head coaching hires (aka, guys who won't fight his control) and gets personally involved in too many football aspects of the team.
I never heard of Alan Ball being a Jerry guy...he was a 7th round flyer, but ok.

He does have a personal attachment to Jason Garrett, but not just Jason. Jason's entire family... his father was a long time Cowboys scout with deep roots with the Jones family, and his brother is on the staff too.

I don't think Jason as the HC and talent evaluator is the problem. It's just the playcalling that I can't stand.

Good players were brought in during the Parcells era, but I wouldn't be too quick to crown him for Romo (Sean Payton), Ware (Jeff Ireland, BP wanted Spears at 12 and was relieved when we got him at 20). I would say Austin was a Parcells pick up though and many others who have come and gone because of him have helped to turn the Cowboys around.

But Jerry made some nice moves too. Dez, DeMarco, Felix, Tyron, Free, Sean Lee...and some others that haven't been busts.. Spencer, Jenkins, Scandrick. We just needed more FA help. We haven't made a big FA signing in YEARS. Keith Brooking, Zach Thomas, Kenyon Coleman and Abram Elam are our highlights and that just won't do. He keeps overspending on keeping our own players. gah.

J-Mike88
01-04-2012, 05:38 PM
Away from the Boys for a second, thought BB's thread was a perfect place to throw some of these interesting numbers:

Since waiving Albert Haynesworth, the Patriots are 8-0.
After claiming Haynesworth, the Buccaneers went 0-8.

Ryan Brothers teams (the Cowboys and Jets) were 0-9 this season versus the Eagles, Giants and Patriots.

Philip Rivers is 24-3 after Dec. 1, while Tony Romo is 9-18 after Dec. 1.

15 players scored touchdowns for New Orleans this season, while 6 players scored touchdowns for St. Louis.

Since winning their first-ever playoffs berth, the Texans have lost every game.

The Bengals were 9-0 against teams that missed the playoffs and 0-7 against teams that made the playoffs.

The Patriots didn't beat any team that finished over .500 this season.

kalbears13
01-04-2012, 06:54 PM
Iamcanadian supports every decision ever made by every GM. Nothing to see here.

Unless it's Cleveland's GM. Then they're idiots for not taking Blaine Gabbert.

Brodeur
01-04-2012, 07:05 PM
everyone should've taken blaine gabbert.

Blaine Gabbert should have taken Blaine Gabbert.

Jvig43
01-04-2012, 07:10 PM
I approve of every post going on right now.

Also Idk if I'm ready for Sanchez's huge jump from terrible QB to elite break out year next year.

Brodeur
01-04-2012, 07:20 PM
blaine gabbert took jimmy clausen. :/

I think he tried to take himself, but couldn't spell his name so he made Luke McCown do it and he wrote Jimmy Clausen as a joke.

yodabear
01-05-2012, 02:40 AM
15 players scored touchdowns for New Orleans this season, while 6 players scored touchdowns for St. Louis.

Jokes on them....WE BEAT THEM....HA! Still wondering how the **** that happened.

Saints-Tigers
01-05-2012, 07:20 AM
Jokes on them....WE BEAT THEM....HA! Still wondering how the **** that happened.

It all starts in the trenches... you win the battle up front, you'll probably win. You guys ASS raped us up front. Lauranitis and Long were monstrous.

BeerBaron
01-05-2012, 07:45 AM
It all starts in the trenches... you win the battle up front, you'll probably win. You guys ASS raped us up front. Lauranitis and Long were monstrous.

That and the Saints aren't the same team on the road.

There's no such thing as a "good loss" in my mind, but if something positive can be taken from that game, it's that you haven't lost since. And only 2 games since then have even been within 10 points. (@ Atlanta and @ Tennessee.)

On that note, road game disadvantage has been pretty rampant in the league this year...Every team in the league has at least 2 road losses except the Packers, who have 1, and almost all of the playoff teams have 3. The Ravens and Falcons were both 4-4 on the road this season.

And like I said with the Saints, a lot of teams, even in victories, just aren't playing as well on the road.

Homefield might be more important this postseason than any other.

bigbluedefense
01-05-2012, 08:13 AM
Ok, I'm in between here...

To BBD: They DO have talent. Not as much as the media or Cowboys fans like to think, but it's not as dire as you make it seem.

I do think Tony Romo is a top 10 QB. Dez Bryant has top 10 WR type talent. He's not in the top 10 yet, but could be...he's talented enough to get there and shows flashes of that. Witten is one of the most well rounded TEs in the game. Sean Lee looks like he'll be a perennial pro-bowler headed forward. And Ware...he came half a sack shy of being the first player ever to eclipse 20 sacks in a season twice, and he's half a sack away from being one of, if not thee fastest guys to get to 100 career sacks.

But, like you say, there are horrific gaping holes. Most notably the secondary and left 4/5 of the o-line. Maybe just the middle 3/5 on a good day.

So the truth is somewhere in the middle, as always. The Cowboys have extremely good talent in a few places, and extremely bad in several others. And they have a controlling owner/GM who makes poor head coaching hires (aka, guys who won't fight his control) and gets personally involved in too many football aspects of the team.

Exactly, which is why they're 9-7 and not 2-14. I'm not saying they suck by any means, but there's this belief that they are a SB caliber team, and that's not true either. They are what they are, a very talented team in some places but also a team that is severely lacking in talent in other places, and it led to a .500 team which is what their talent indicates.

Outside of Ware, Lee, and Ratliff, that entire defense is as mediocre as it comes talent wise. I think their oline problems are overstated, but I also believe that oline is overrated in today's game.

Their offense is fine. Their defense needs to be completely overhauled outside those 3 players.

BeerBaron
01-05-2012, 08:19 AM
Exactly, which is why they're 9-7 and not 2-14. I'm not saying they suck by any means, but there's this belief that they are a SB caliber team, and that's not true either. They are what they are, a very talented team in some places but also a team that is severely lacking in talent in other places, and it led to a .500 team which is what their talent indicates.

Outside of Ware, Lee, and Ratliff, that entire defense is as mediocre as it comes talent wise. I think their oline problems are overstated, but I also believe that oline is overrated in today's game.

Their offense is fine. Their defense needs to be completely overhauled outside those 3 players.

I've never liked Jason Garrett's playcalling, so I wouldn't exactly say their offense is "fine." He'll get too far away from the run, and I've seen enough TE screens to Martellus Bennett for 2 yards to last a lifetime. I think he'd be in heaven calling plays in college, but the ******** screens don't work in the pros.

Also, they need to involve Dez Bryant more. Get him involved early and often by getting the ball into his hands however it takes. Even if it it's on a reverse or a WR screen...get the ball into his hands because he can make plays.

Also...the o-line...the issues may be overstated but it helps when the center could snap the ball. I get cutting Gurode to save money, but Phil Costa sucks.

That contributes to the "dumb team" dynamic too. Low football IQ, poor coaching, a dearth of talent in key spots, and an owner who fashions himself a GM. A GM whose team has won exactly one playoff game in 15 years. There's a reason for that Jerry.

JBCX
01-05-2012, 08:21 AM
Exactly, which is why they're 9-7 and not 2-14. I'm not saying they suck by any means, but there's this belief that they are a SB caliber team, and that's not true either. They are what they are, a very talented team in some places but also a team that is severely lacking in talent in other places, and it led to a .500 team which is what their talent indicates.

Outside of Ware, Lee, and Ratliff, that entire defense is as mediocre as it comes talent wise. I think their oline problems are overstated, but I also believe that oline is overrated in today's game.

Their offense is fine. Their defense needs to be completely overhauled outside those 3 players.

You could say the exact same thing about the Giants.

Outside of 2-3 pass rushers, Eli, and Nicks/Cruz, they're a very untalented, mediocre team.

Tony Romo = Eli Manning
DeMarcus Ware = Jason Pierre Paul
Bryant/Austin = Nicks/Cruz

The Giants have some better safeties, but the Cowboys have a better TE and some better offensive linemen.

The Giants are basically a .500 team that just happened to catch a lucky break or two more than the Eagles and Cowboys in some games (such as the Cardinals game, the Pats game, etc), and are clearly not a Super Bowl caliber team.

Rosebud
01-05-2012, 09:00 AM
You could say the exact same thing about the Giants.

Outside of 2-3 pass rushers, Eli, and Nicks/Cruz, they're a very untalented, mediocre team.

Tony Romo = Eli Manning
DeMarcus Ware = Jason Pierre Paul
Bryant/Austin = Nicks/Cruz

The Giants have some better safeties, but the Cowboys have a better TE and some better offensive linemen.

The Giants are basically a .500 team that just happened to catch a lucky break or two more than the Eagles and Cowboys in some games (such as the Cardinals game, the Pats game, etc), and are clearly not a Super Bowl caliber team.

Eli, Bradshaw, Nicks, Cruz, Mario, Petrus, Snee, JPP, Tuck, Osi, Kiwi, Canty, Joseph, Boley, Webster, Thomas, Prince, Ross, Rolle and Phillips aren't very talented? **** the Giants have holes but having some holes is not the same as having holes most places. The giants need a better Mike, a better OL, a better DC and better luck with injuries and they're contending for the superbowl for sure. And hell if Jacquain keeps growing, Baas gets his **** together and Beatty ends up working out than a good DC and luck with injuries is all this team's missing. The Cowboys may have some stars but the giants are much deeper and more talented throughout the roster, even after all of the injuries the team's suffered this season.

hockey619
01-05-2012, 09:23 AM
Eli, Bradshaw, Nicks, Cruz, Mario, Petrus, Snee, JPP, Tuck, Osi, Kiwi, Canty, Joseph, Boley, Webster, Thomas, Prince, Ross, Rolle and Phillips aren't very talented? **** the Giants have holes but having some holes is not the same as having holes most places. The giants need a better Mike, a better OL, a better DC and better luck with injuries and they're contending for the superbowl for sure. And hell if Jacquain keeps growing, Baas gets his **** together and Beatty ends up working out than a good DC and luck with injuries is all this team's missing. The Cowboys may have some stars but the giants are much deeper and more talented throughout the roster, even after all of the injuries the team's suffered this season.

im a giants fan too man, but youre being a massive homer. many of the guys on that list are classic giants players: good players who will suddenly dissappear for stretches, which is why we're 9-7 and not 12-4 or something like that.

Mario isnt good. at all. hes never been good. his route running is atrocious and he can be easily ridden out of bounds or off his route. and nobody on the team runs the wrong route or is on a different page than eli more often than MM.

Prince hasnt done **** and hasnt looked all that great when hes been out there. didnt like this pick but we'll see if he can put it together but so far lets not list him as a 'star,' hes certainly no more of a star than jenkins is for dallas. so lets not list him as a 'very talented' player yet, lets wait til he proves it at all.

Nicks dissappears and will drop more than his fair share, bradshaw and kiwi are both good/solid guys but not studs, and our whole secondary is solid but not amazing. They only really play great when the line is playing like a bunch of monsters, otherwise theyre just above average.





The giants have always been a very jekyll and hyde team, for as long as i can remember. They can play with anybody and lose to anybody on any given day, its just a matter of do they all show up. I mean, just this year, they beat the pats, hung tight with the pack....and lost twice (convincingly) to rex grossman? what? they are maddeningly inconsistent. when theyre on, theyre very good. when theyre off, they look lost.
their top end talent is a little behind the cowboys, but theyre also solid in many spots across the board while the cowboys have more glaring holes.

JBCX
01-05-2012, 09:51 AM
Eli, Bradshaw, Nicks, Cruz, Mario, Petrus, Snee, JPP, Tuck, Osi, Kiwi, Canty, Joseph, Boley, Webster, Thomas, Prince, Ross, Rolle and Phillips aren't very talented? **** the Giants have holes but having some holes is not the same as having holes most places. The giants need a better Mike, a better OL, a better DC and better luck with injuries and they're contending for the superbowl for sure. And hell if Jacquain keeps growing, Baas gets his **** together and Beatty ends up working out than a good DC and luck with injuries is all this team's missing. The Cowboys may have some stars but the giants are much deeper and more talented throughout the roster, even after all of the injuries the team's suffered this season.

I mentioned Eli and Nicks/Cruz. Those are the only above-average offensive players the Giants have.

Bradshaw and Jacobs are mediocre RBs that need a really good offensive line to generate yardage, which the Giants don't have. Mario Manningham is not even an average WR at this point. Mitch Petrus is a young offensive linemen who hasn't shown anything to this point but an ability to step in and play a few snaps. Chris Snee is an average or slightly above-average lineman.

I mentioned JPP/Tuck/Osi. Osi is injured and probably won't even be with the team next year, and Tuck is pretty injury prone as well. So that leaves JPP and (sometimes)Tuck as the impact players on defense. Chris Canty and Linval Joseph are average DTs at best by any measure. Thomas is injured so we won't discuss him. Webster is an above-average cornerback but nothing elite, and he's probably the only above-average CB the Giants have right now. Prince is a rookie who's looked bad so far and has yet to prove himself. Ross sucks. Rolle sucks. Phillips is an above-average safety but no star.

So basically:

The only real arguably "elite" players on the Giants = Eli Manning, Hakeem Nicks, Victor Cruz, Justin Tuck, and Jason Pierre-Paul

Just like the "elite" of the Cowboys = Tony Romo, Miles Austin, Jason Witten, Dez Bryant, DeMarcus Ware, Jay Ratliff, and maybe Sean Lee.

I'd say it's pretty even and the teams are very similar: mediocre .500ish teams who are clearly not Super Bowl contenders headed by a good QB just outside the top-10 or on the fringe of the top-10 (Romo/Manning) with some nice offensive weapons (Bryant+Austin+Witten/Nicks+Cruz) and an elite pass rusher or two (JPP+Tuck/Ware+Ratliff) with alot of scrubs filling out the roster.

hockey619
01-05-2012, 10:01 AM
I mentioned Eli and Nicks/Cruz. Those are the only above-average offensive players the Giants have.

Bradshaw and Jacobs are mediocre RBs that need a really good offensive line to generate yardage, which the Giants don't have. Mario Manningham is not even an average WR at this point. Mitch Petrus is a young offensive linemen who hasn't shown anything to this point but an ability to step in and play a few snaps. Chris Snee is an average or slightly above-average lineman.

I mentioned JPP/Tuck/Osi. Osi is injured and probably won't even be with the team next year, and Tuck is pretty injury prone as well. So that leaves JPP and (sometimes)Tuck as the impact players on defense. Chris Canty and Linval Joseph are average DTs at best by any measure. Thomas is injured so we won't discuss him. Webster is an above-average cornerback but nothing elite, and he's probably the only above-average CB the Giants have right now. Prince is a rookie who's looked bad so far and has yet to prove himself. Ross sucks. Rolle sucks. Phillips is an above-average safety but no star.

So basically:

The only real arguably "elite" players on the Giants = Eli Manning, Hakeem Nicks, Victor Cruz, Justin Tuck, and Jason Pierre-Paul

Just like the "elite" of the Cowboys = Tony Romo, Miles Austin, Jason Witten, Dez Bryant, DeMarcus Ware, Jay Ratliff, and maybe Sean Lee.

I'd say it's pretty even and the teams are very similar: mediocre .500ish teams who are clearly not Super Bowl contenders headed by a good QB just outside the top-10 or on the fringe of the top-10 (Romo/Manning) with some nice offensive weapons (Bryant+Austin+Witten/Nicks+Cruz) and an elite pass rusher or two (JPP+Tuck/Ware+Ratliff) with alot of scrubs filling out the roster.

while i think most of your post is just as useless and uninformed as most of your other posts, please do not refer to charmin soft brandon jacobs as 'mediocre,' it makes even someone with your track record look very bad.

there is possibly no bigger fraud in pro football. there are still people who think hes a viable option when hes sucked for years now, even in short yardage. the guy is a horrendous running back who needed to be cut two years ago.

Rosebud
01-05-2012, 10:25 AM
im a giants fan too man, but youre being a massive homer. many of the guys on that list are classic giants players: good players who will suddenly dissappear for stretches, which is why we're 9-7 and not 12-4 or something like that.

Mario isnt good. at all. hes never been good. his route running is atrocious and he can be easily ridden out of bounds or off his route. and nobody on the team runs the wrong route or is on a different page than eli more often than MM.

Prince hasnt done **** and hasnt looked all that great when hes been out there. didnt like this pick but we'll see if he can put it together but so far lets not list him as a 'star,' hes certainly no more of a star than jenkins is for dallas. so lets not list him as a 'very talented' player yet, lets wait til he proves it at all.

Nicks dissappears and will drop more than his fair share, bradshaw and kiwi are both good/solid guys but not studs, and our whole secondary is solid but not amazing. They only really play great when the line is playing like a bunch of monsters, otherwise theyre just above average.





The giants have always been a very jekyll and hyde team, for as long as i can remember. They can play with anybody and lose to anybody on any given day, its just a matter of do they all show up. I mean, just this year, they beat the pats, hung tight with the pack....and lost twice (convincingly) to rex grossman? what? they are maddeningly inconsistent. when theyre on, theyre very good. when theyre off, they look lost.
their top end talent is a little behind the cowboys, but theyre also solid in many spots across the board while the cowboys have more glaring holes.

Just wanted to point out I wasn’t listing only our star players, but rather guys I considered above average talents for their positions to counter JBCX’s assertion that Eli, Cruz, Nicks and JPP where our only players who weren’t below average.

No doubt a number of those guys have issue but would really call them below average players? In our scheme Mario is just an above average big play threat, but his talent is more than that and he has played like a quality starter before, which, at least IMO, is more than a below average third WR. He makes a lot of mental errors which is why Nicks and Cruz have surpassed him already, but he's still not a below average talent or a problem. As a third WR I'm fully satisfied with what Mario brings. He's no star, but he's also not a below average player and on average isn't a liability despite the picks and stalled drives his brainfarts have caused.

Prince is an extremely talented 4th CB, for a guy who was supposed to be competing with guys like Bruce Johnson, Michael Coe and Brian Weatherspoon. He's as good as you're going to find. Again he's not a star yet and may never be, but with Webster and Thomas ahead of him he doesn't need to be a star for quite some time. I mentioned him because JBCX likes to talk about the dearth of talent at the corner position for the giants, which simply isn't true unless you're assuming that every currently injured Giants CB will never be useful again.

Webster is a top 10 corner, Thomas is a play maker and sound tackler, something our secondary has struggled with this season, Ross has shown that when healthy he can be a strong starter, although he'll almost certainly walk this summer, Prince I've already talked about and Bruce Johnson is a very good slot corner for whom Westbrook and Coe provide good cover. The talent is there for a great secondary, it just needs to be healthy, get regular support from the pass rush and another LB to keep the middle of the field from being such a gaping hole if we’re going to keep doing this sit back in cover-2 ******** Fewell had been utilizing prior to the Jets game. Which to me is the biggest issue with our secondary alongside health. Webster has become a good zone corner, TT can freelance a lit more and make plays in zone, but Ross lacks the quickness to excel in zone and young guys like Prince, Coe, Westbrook lack the experience and chemistry with their fellow DBs to play zone well. Yet Zone is what we’ve had our guys doing most of the season while not even providing them with heavy blitzing to force QBs to get it out versus the zone quickly. I have no issues with our talent level in the secondary, other than wanting another young safety to replace Grant if Sash isn’t up to the task.

Nicks makes plenty of mental mistakes, but Dez Bryant doesn’t to? If we’re just talking about quality talents that the Giants have Nicks is up there. He still needs to improve, but if he didn’t we’d have arguably the best WR tandem in the NFL. He’s not an elite player at his position but he’s another talented guy on the giants roster who’s certainly not below average for his position.

Kiwi is a good DE, he’s certainly not below average when his hands in the dirt and is a strong run defender and tackler on a team that’s struggled stopping the run. As for Bradshaw I think if not for injuries he’d be a top 10-15 RB, his ability to make people miss, stay low and hard to tackle and keep his legs churning combine to be a dangerous weapon. One who’s certainly not a below average player.

You’re last paragraph was what I was the point I was trying to make, the giants have a lot of players across the board who have “talent”, not all of them are elite or even have elite potential, but there’s a lot of guys who are at least good to very good starters. Injuries and schematic issues do result in the team playing below their talent level, but that isn’t necessarily an indictment of the talent, especially when some instance, like Mario are just blatant miss-uses of talent.

Rosebud
01-05-2012, 10:29 AM
I mentioned Eli and Nicks/Cruz. Those are the only above-average offensive players the Giants have.

Bradshaw [is a] mediocre RB. Mario Manningham is not even an average WR at this point. Mitch Petrus is a young offensive linemen who hasn't shown anything to this point but an ability to step in and play a few snaps. Chris Snee is an average or slightly above-average lineman.

I mentioned JPP/Tuck/Osi. Osi is injured and probably won't even be with the team next year, and Tuck is pretty injury prone as well. So that leaves JPP and (sometimes)Tuck as the impact players on defense. Chris Canty and Linval Joseph are average DTs at best by any measure. Thomas is injured so we won't discuss him. Webster is an above-average cornerback but nothing elite, and he's probably the only above-average CB the Giants have right now. Prince is a rookie who's looked bad so far and has yet to prove himself. Ross sucks. Rolle sucks. Phillips is an above-average safety but no star.

So basically:

The only real arguably "elite" players on the Giants = Eli Manning, Hakeem Nicks, Victor Cruz, Justin Tuck, and Jason Pierre-Paul

Just like the "elite" of the Cowboys = Tony Romo, Miles Austin, Jason Witten, Dez Bryant, DeMarcus Ware, Jay Ratliff, and maybe Sean Lee.

I'd say it's pretty even and the teams are very similar: mediocre .500ish teams who are clearly not Super Bowl contenders headed by a good QB just outside the top-10 or on the fringe of the top-10 (Romo/Manning) with some nice offensive weapons (Bryant+Austin+Witten/Nicks+Cruz) and an elite pass rusher or two (JPP+Tuck/Ware+Ratliff) with alot of scrubs filling out the roster.

Just thought I'd highlight some gems.

Giantsfan1080
01-05-2012, 10:43 AM
What a waste of playoff discussion this has been.

scottyboy
01-05-2012, 10:43 AM
Chris Snee is a ******* top 10 guard. him being just "average" or "above-average" is blowing my mind right now. He's had his worst season in the pros this year, and it's still been a top 10 OG season. I just dont know where the balls that's coming from.

and that is all I will say on the matter

DraftSavant
01-05-2012, 11:19 AM
Exactly, which is why they're 9-7 and not 2-14. I'm not saying they suck by any means, but there's this belief that they are a SB caliber team, and that's not true either. They are what they are, a very talented team in some places but also a team that is severely lacking in talent in other places, and it led to a .500 team which is what their talent indicates.

Outside of Ware, Lee, and Ratliff, that entire defense is as mediocre as it comes talent wise. I think their oline problems are overstated, but I also believe that oline is overrated in today's game.

Their offense is fine. Their defense needs to be completely overhauled outside those 3 players.

I tried saying before the season that I dunno how Rob Ryan waving a magic wand overcomes the serious personnel deficiencies they have on that side of the ball - especially in the secondary.

BeerBaron
01-05-2012, 11:22 AM
I tried saying before the season that I dunno how Rob Ryan waving a magic wand overcomes the serious personnel deficiencies they have on that side of the ball - especially in the secondary.

I feel a little bad for him because everywhere he goes just seems to have such ****** talent and/or a manipulative owner. He didn't have much talent in Oakland or Cleveland, and in Oakland, I recall Ryan being forced to run a different defensive scheme than he wanted.

I feel like he could really call a good defense if the talent he had to work with just wasn't so horrible.

Giantsfan1080
01-05-2012, 11:27 AM
Nobody forced Ryan to go to Dallas.

BeerBaron
01-05-2012, 11:29 AM
Nobody forced Ryan to go to Dallas.

True, but no matter where he would have went, people would have expected a big defensive turnaround. Buddy Ryan couldn't have done anything with that Dallas secondary as it is.

JBCX
01-05-2012, 02:29 PM
It's truly amazing how much you Giants homers overrate the players on your team.

The way you guys talk about the players on your team, you'd think the Giants were coming off consecutive 14-2 seasons and Super Bowl championships instead of missing the playoffs 2 years in a row, losing 7 out of the last 8 games against the Eagles , and barely sneaking into the playoffs as a 9-7 team likely to go one-and-done or two-and-done at best this year.

Basically speaking, the Giants had a miraculous run to a Super Bowl championship in 2007 when they were a mediocre team during the regular season, played very well until the end of the 2008 regular season, and, since then, have been a thoroughly mediocre team with many core members on the decline.

And it really is amazing that Giants fans call out the Cowboys 8-8 team for not being a Super Bowl caliber team when the Giants themselves are lucky to even be in the playoffs and are clearly *not* any more a Super Bowl caliber team than the Cowboys.

Rosebud
01-05-2012, 02:33 PM
It's truly amazing how much you Giants homers overrate the players on your team.

The way you guys talk about the players on your team, you'd think the Giants were coming off consecutive 14-2 seasons and Super Bowl championships instead of missing the playoffs 2 years in a row, losing 7 out of the last 8 games against the Eagles , and barely sneaking into the playoffs as a 9-7 team likely to go one-and-done or two-and-done at best this year.

Basically speaking, the Giants had a miraculous run to a Super Bowl championship in 2007 when they were a mediocre team during the regular season, played very well until the end of the 2008 regular season, and, since then, have been a thoroughly mediocre team with many core members on the decline.

Other than David Diehl, Kareem McKenzie and Brandon Jacobs I'd like for you to name a core member of that 2008 team who's still a significant part of the team and on the decline.

PS who has ever seriously said that this giants team is superbowl caliber? This isn't like the redskins, where at least you could point to some clueless people who wanted to make a controversial claim in preseason and thus picked them as superbowl champs.

Raiderz4Life
01-05-2012, 02:35 PM
It's truly amazing how much you Giants homers overrate the players on your team.

The way you guys talk about the players on your team, you'd think the Giants were coming off consecutive 14-2 seasons and Super Bowl championships instead of missing the playoffs 2 years in a row, losing 7 out of the last 8 games against the Eagles , and barely sneaking into the playoffs as a 9-7 team likely to go one-and-done or two-and-done at best this year.

Basically speaking, the Giants had a miraculous run to a Super Bowl championship in 2007 when they were a mediocre team during the regular season, played very well until the end of the 2008 regular season, and, since then, have been a thoroughly mediocre team with many core members on the decline.

And it really is amazing that Giants fans call out the Cowboys 8-8 team for not being a Super Bowl caliber team when the Giants themselves are lucky to even be in the playoffs and are clearly *not* any more a Super Bowl caliber team than the Cowboys.

Its also amazing how big a vendetta and douchey some Eagles fans just because they're bitter that their "Dream" team was sucked ass. I don't believe that "your SB run was miraculous or lucky" ********. Did they have breaks? Yea...was it ALL luck? Hell to the ******* no.

And I give you permission to try and make yourself feel better by saying the Raiders suck and I'm just bitter. Because you know what? I know the Raiders suck I don't need any jackasses to tell me this, and yea..maybe I am a little bitter.

JBCX
01-05-2012, 02:41 PM
Other than David Diehl, Kareem McKenzie and Brandon Jacobs I'd like for you to name a core member of that 2008 team who's still a significant part of the team and on the decline.

PS who has ever seriously said that this giants team is superbowl caliber? This isn't like the redskins, where at least you could point to some clueless people who wanted to make a controversial claim in preseason and thus picked them as superbowl champs.

- Justin Tuck is constantly injured. I don't see him ever being a consistently great player again for a whole season.

- Every single member of that offensive line from 2007 is old and slow now (or even cut by the team) and the Giants don't really have any good replacements waiting in the wings. Will Beatty sucks, and Mitch Petrus hasn't shown anything but the ability to step in for a few games and not look like complete garbage. David Baas has been a completely underwhelming FA signing.

- Eli is getting up there in age and I wouldn't be shocked if he only has 3-4 more productive years left in him, at best.

- Jacobs and Bradshaw both battle injuries and inconsistencies and basically speaking, the Giants have no running game and will never have a running game again until they completely revamp the offensive line and draft a new RB

- Osi is battling injuries, whines about his contract, and will probably not be with the team next year. So going from 2007 Osi to 2011- Pierre Paul is basically a lateral move.

- Antonio Pierce was a key member of that 2007 defense but he's obviously gone, but the Giants have done nothing to replace him with a viable MLB. In fact, all of their LBers pretty much suck. Even the young guys like Greg Jones and Jacquain Wiliams don't appear to have a ton of potential from the games I've watched - and they certainly don't have 1st round pedigrees. Mark Herzlich will always be a liablity due to the cancer robbing him of his speed.

bigbluedefense
01-05-2012, 03:58 PM
You could say the exact same thing about the Giants.

Outside of 2-3 pass rushers, Eli, and Nicks/Cruz, they're a very untalented, mediocre team.

Tony Romo = Eli Manning
DeMarcus Ware = Jason Pierre Paul
Bryant/Austin = Nicks/Cruz

The Giants have some better safeties, but the Cowboys have a better TE and some better offensive linemen.

The Giants are basically a .500 team that just happened to catch a lucky break or two more than the Eagles and Cowboys in some games (such as the Cardinals game, the Pats game, etc), and are clearly not a Super Bowl caliber team.

Ok and? I never said the Giants were Super Bowl bound. We are what we are: a 9-7 team that snuck in the playoffs and now who knows what happens. Anything from this point is gravy to me. I never said the Giants are any different.

I won't even waste my time with everything else you said.

Rosebud
01-05-2012, 04:23 PM
Other than David Diehl, Kareem McKenzie and Brandon Jacobs I'd like for you to name a core member of that 2008 team who's still a significant part of the team and on the decline.

PS who has ever seriously said that this giants team is superbowl caliber? This isn't like the redskins, where at least you could point to some clueless people who wanted to make a controversial claim in preseason and thus picked them as superbowl champs.

Reading...it could've prevented all of this fucknuttery...

- Justin Tuck is constantly injured. I don't see him ever being a consistently great player again for a whole season.

- Every single member of that offensive line from 2007 is old and slow now (or even cut by the team) and the Giants don't really have any good replacements waiting in the wings. Will Beatty sucks, and Mitch Petrus hasn't shown anything but the ability to step in for a few games and not look like complete garbage. David Baas has been a completely underwhelming FA signing.

- Eli is getting up there in age and I wouldn't be shocked if he only has 3-4 more productive years left in him, at best.

- Jacobs and Bradshaw both battle injuries and inconsistencies and basically speaking, the Giants have no running game and will never have a running game again until they completely revamp the offensive line and draft a new RB

- Osi is battling injuries, whines about his contract, and will probably not be with the team next year. So going from 2007 Osi to 2011- Pierre Paul is basically a lateral move.

- Antonio Pierce was a key member of that 2007 defense but he's obviously gone, but the Giants have done nothing to replace him with a viable MLB. In fact, all of their LBers pretty much suck. Even the young guys like Greg Jones and Jacquain Wiliams don't appear to have a ton of potential from the games I've watched - and they certainly don't have 1st round pedigrees. Mark Herzlich will always be a liablity due to the cancer robbing him of his speed.

I did forget about Tuck actually being healthy that year. That's one.

I'm just going to ignore your vendetta against Chris Snee, who aparently boned your sister and mother in front of you since you're contempt for him is absurd. David Diehl and Kareem McKenzie are another matter, but them I mentioned.

Mitch Petrus stepped in and our running game was actually effective, when he went back to the bench it got a lot worse and while improving hasn't been as good since...still has absolutely nothing to do with what I asked you to do, so far you've got one more name that's older and likely to be less effective than he was in 2007/2008.

Eli won't ever be as good as he was in 2007/2008...are you ******* ******** or just illiterate?...that's unnecessarily mean, I know, but asking the simple question of whether you were ******** or illiterate without the f-bomb seemed insufficient. I'm sorry, I'll move on.

Already gave you Jacobs and Bradshaw's actually playing now so I don't even know what the **** you think this has to do with what I asked of you, yeah he's older than he was then, that's why he's actually a starter and not just the third back who gets to come in sometimes in the 4th quarter to go ape **** on beat up defenses. He's stopped fumbling as much since then, he's a much better receiver and blocker and he's just as explosive of a runner.

You wanna know when else Osi was battling injuries...2008 when he blew his knee out before the season...moron...

Antonio Pierce's fat ass was gotten rid of...so again he's not still on the team and aging...fatty was already useless out there outside of his brain. It was so bad that even Spags had trouble hiding his ass in coverage...Now that I think about it I kinda want to see AP try a comeback with the eagles after they hire Perry Fewell. Playing 15 yards off the ball, pretending to cover tight ends. This reality show needs to happen!...anyway Pierce's brain is missed, but Boley, who's a vastly superior player, has really started to get accustomed to quarterbacking the D. So again irrelevant and just a bad point to make since our Linebackers are actually better know than they were then, sad as that statement is.

BTW I know you don't watch giants games, but I kinda figured you'd at least watch them when they play your iggles...you are such a twat...
rMGWR9ujhDQ


Ok and? I never said the Giants were Super Bowl bound. We are what we are: a 9-7 team that snuck in the playoffs and now who knows what happens. Anything from this point is gravy to me. I never said the Giants are any different.

I won't even waste my time with everything else you said.

It's a mediocre waste of time on a slow work day. *shrug*

MetSox17
01-05-2012, 04:32 PM
I feel a little bad for him because everywhere he goes just seems to have such ****** talent and/or a manipulative owner. He didn't have much talent in Oakland or Cleveland, and in Oakland, I recall Ryan being forced to run a different defensive scheme than he wanted.

I feel like he could really call a good defense if the talent he had to work with just wasn't so horrible.

So you're saying he'd be good if he had a talented defense... mmkay. That can be said about pretty much every DC in the NFL. He was exposed plenty of times, and early in the year the defense was playing well. There was plenty of times down the stretch when we got completely chewed up in zone coverages, when we would only rush three in two minute drills because the defensive calls weren't relayed properly, having Terence Newman out there getting killed play after play after play.

The secondary was terrible this year outside of Jenkins (when he was healthy, the few times) and Scandrick. And i mean just downright awful. Any time you have Terence Newman and Alan Ball playing a significant amount of minutes, you're doomed to suck, but Rob Ryan deserves his fair share of the blame. He got outcoached plenty of times this season.

BeerBaron
01-05-2012, 04:35 PM
So you're saying he'd be good if he had a talented defense... mmkay. That can be said about pretty much every DC in the NFL. He was exposed plenty of times, and early in the year the defense was playing well. There was plenty of times down the stretch when we got completely chewed up in zone coverages, when we would only rush three in two minute drills because the defensive calls weren't relayed properly, having Terence Newman out there getting killed play after play after play.

The secondary was terrible this year outside of Jenkins (when he was healthy, the few times) and Scandrick. And i mean just downright awful. Any time you have Terence Newman and Alan Ball playing a significant amount of minutes, you're doomed to suck, but Rob Ryan deserves his fair share of the blame. He got outcoached plenty of times this season.

I knew someone would come in and say that....not what I mean here. It just took a while.

He has gone into these places seriously lacking talent and, instead of reasonable expectations, they thing "Oh, Rob Ryan will make them better!"

There's only so much coaching can do. You have to have talent too. Both of your safeties suck. Terrence Newman is old and washed up. Alan Ball shouldn't even be on a CFL roster. There's no one to rush the passer other than Ware.

If gave Picasso nothing but **** to paint with, even if he tries his best, the painting you get will still just be a big **** smear.

Get what I'm saying now?

Rosebud
01-05-2012, 04:38 PM
So you're saying he'd be good if he had a talented defense... mmkay. That can be said about pretty much every DC in the NFL.

http://2010.thegrio.com/assets_c/2009/11/Buffalo%20Bills-Interim-Coach-%20Perry%20Fewell-NFL-thumb-400xauto-5042.jpg

He was exposed plenty of times, and early in the year the defense was playing well.

http://www.nypost.com/rw/nypost/2010/01/15/sports/photos_stories/cropped/074_perry_fewell--300x300.jpg

There was plenty of times down the stretch when we got completely chewed up in zone coverages, when we would only rush three in two minute drills because the defensive calls weren't relayed properly.

http://media.nj.com/giants_impact/photo/perry-fewell-bills-d49a77f6eb9b2804_large.jpg

Rosebud
01-05-2012, 04:39 PM
If gave Picasso nothing but **** to paint with, even if he tries his best, the painting you get will still just be a big **** smear.

Get what I'm saying now?

It would be a very unique **** smear...making it even better art than his more traditional works...

MetSox17
01-05-2012, 04:41 PM
I knew someone would come in and say that....not what I mean here. It just took a while.

He has gone into these places seriously lacking talent and, instead of reasonable expectations, they thing "Oh, Rob Ryan will make them better!"

There's only so much coaching can do. You have to have talent too. Both of your safeties suck. Terrence Newman is old and washed up. Alan Ball shouldn't even be on a CFL roster. There's no one to rush the passer other than Ware.

If gave Picasso nothing but **** to paint with, even if he tries his best, the painting you get will still just be a big **** smear.

Get what I'm saying now?

I completely understand what you're saying, but our front seven was good enough to have us in the top 7 of most statistical categories in the first half of the season. Even our secondary was being sheltered a little bit. The second half was something completely different, it seemed like he was getting outcoached every game.

Despite the black hole of suck in our secondary, we still managed to end up 14th in total defense. How that happens, i have no ******* clue, but it did. There is some talent to that defense, and i don't think it was properly used all the time. Ryan doesn't deserve all the blame, but he does deserve a fair amount of it. No one expected him to come in and make us a top 3 unit, but there were stretches where it was just completely putrid.

BeerBaron
01-05-2012, 04:44 PM
I completely understand what you're saying, but our front seven was good enough to have us in the top 7 of most statistical categories in the first half of the season. Even our secondary was being sheltered a little bit. The second half was something completely different, it seemed like he was getting outcoached every game.

Despite the black hole of suck in our secondary, we still managed to end up 14th in total defense. How that happens, i have no ******* clue, but it did. There is some talent to that defense, and i don't think it was properly used all the time. Ryan doesn't deserve all the blame, but he does deserve a fair amount of it. No one expected him to come in and make us a top 3 unit, but there were stretches where it was just completely putrid.

A fair amount. A reasonable amount. Definitely. Whenever a team or unit of a team performs poorly, some of that should always go on the coaches. Sometimes it's too much, sometimes it's not enough.

In this case I think it's a littttttle too much. Like I said, with a secondary like that, Buddy Ryan couldn't have coached that into a top 10 defense. But I think the expectation going into the season, fair or not, was that Ryan's coaching would fix the flaws. It didn't.

Rosebud
01-06-2012, 03:02 PM
Not that I disagree with you BB about the plethora of missed first round picks biting the Bills in the ass, I think you're selling that RB tandem short, Fred Jackson was arguably the best RB in the NFL before he got hurt and CJ Spiller might not have exploded onto the scene, but when he stepped in after Jackson went down, he looked like a great weapon. With the progress they've seen on the interior of their OL the Bills could definitely have one of the best running games in the NFL in the near future. And while this NFL isn't based on the run the way it used to be, a great running game with a good QB ain't a bad way to build an offense. They need more weapons for Fitz when he does air it out but the offensive side of the ball isn't a big concern for me.

Where I think your point is completely accurate is on the defensive side of the ball where even a phenomenal Tackle Tandem couldn't save them from being awful. Up front though isn't the problem with this team since they have some good vets and promising youngins around Dareus and Williams. What crippled these Bills other than a lot of injuries and subprime depth was the LBs, other than Shawne Merriman they have no pass rushers, and you can't play in this league without getting pressure. The Bills have some decent/mediocre linebackers who can be good rotational/situational players, but they have no edge rushers. They need to start drafting the Jerry Reese way and stock up on pass rushers while continuing to fill out their depth. They've been better drafters of late and if that trend can continue the Bills have some good pieces in place once they can plug the remaining gaps and get better depth to handle the barrage of injuries they face annually.

BeerBaron
01-06-2012, 03:27 PM
Not that I disagree with you BB about the plethora of missed first round picks biting the Bills in the ass, I think you're selling that RB tandem short, Fred Jackson was arguably the best RB in the NFL before he got hurt and CJ Spiller might not have exploded onto the scene, but when he stepped in after Jackson went down, he looked like a great weapon. With the progress they've seen on the interior of their OL the Bills could definitely have one of the best running games in the NFL in the near future. And while this NFL isn't based on the run the way it used to be, a great running game with a good QB ain't a bad way to build an offense. They need more weapons for Fitz when he does air it out but the offensive side of the ball isn't a big concern for me.

Where I think your point is completely accurate is on the defensive side of the ball where even a phenomenal Tackle Tandem couldn't save them from being awful. Up front though isn't the problem with this team since they have some good vets and promising youngins around Dareus and Williams. What crippled these Bills other than a lot of injuries and subprime depth was the LBs, other than Shawne Merriman they have no pass rushers, and you can't play in this league without getting pressure. The Bills have some decent/mediocre linebackers who can be good rotational/situational players, but they have no edge rushers. They need to start drafting the Jerry Reese way and stock up on pass rushers while continuing to fill out their depth. They've been better drafters of late and if that trend can continue the Bills have some good pieces in place once they can plug the remaining gaps and get better depth to handle the barrage of injuries they face annually.

You've basically repeated my argument in a slightly less aggressive way.

Go look at the Bills draft classes starting in the early 2000s up to last year. I don't know if there has been a team that has gotten as little production out of their first and second round picks as the Bills has. There were a few guys who were effective for stretches but are no longer on the team, but plenty of just sheer, outright BUST picks too.

And Spiller...he was a top 10 draft pick. In this day and age of football, any RB selected that high had better be Adrian ******* Peterson.

I wouldn't even choose a RB in the first round at all personally. Ever. And if a team does, I expect that guy to be a freaking monster beast, top 5 RB. Not a half WR, half RB backup who only makes in impact when the guy in front of him gets injured.

For instance, last year, I HATED the Saints trading for Mark Ingram. Are you serious? Mark Ingram? To add to a 3-4 back rotation? **** that. Ingram doesn't bring anything to the table that you couldn't find in a guy in the 3rd round other than that he played at a bigger school. Trent Richardson is better than Ingram and I wouldn't take Trent Richardson in the first round.

Moral of the story: Don't take RBs in the first round.

Oh and another thing, besides the RB position being so fungible and finding guys in the mid-rounds who can be effective runners, they are one of the most oft-injuried positions in the sport. Adrian Peterson might never be the same.

Don't take RBs in the first round.

brat316
01-06-2012, 04:21 PM
In the Era of passing, you can't take a Rb early. And it is the easier position to transition from college to NFL. 2 UDFA ended up starting for their team at RB. Sure there are a handful of WRs that are doing the same, but there chances are better since teams keep 5 WR on roster. And i'm a fan of running the rock, but times is changing.

Go for Qb, Cb, DE, LT, WR, C, for your premium picks.

BeerBaron
01-06-2012, 04:29 PM
In the Era of passing, you can't take a Rb early. And it is the easier position to transition from college to NFL. 2 UDFA ended up starting for their team at RB. Sure there are a handful of WRs that are doing the same, but there chances are better since teams keep 5 WR on roster. And i'm a fan of running the rock, but times is changing.

Go for Qb, Cb, DE, LT, WR, C, for your premium picks.

Any o-line really. Or safety or even an impact linebacker.

A first round talent at any of those positions will give you more quality than you are likely to find by drafting that position later on.

Not true with a RB. Rice, MJD, Forte...all 2nd round picks. Hell, even in the undrafted ranks, Pierre Thomas, BJE, ARIAN FOSTER!

I would never draft a RB in the first round in this day and age of football. Taking literally any other offensive/defensive position in the first and then grabbing a "solid" back in the 2nd or later will give your team a better net result.

BlindSite
01-06-2012, 07:37 PM
In the Era of passing, you can't take a Rb early. And it is the easier position to transition from college to NFL. 2 UDFA ended up starting for their team at RB. Sure there are a handful of WRs that are doing the same, but there chances are better since teams keep 5 WR on roster. And i'm a fan of running the rock, but times is changing.

Go for Qb, Cb, DE, LT, WR, C, for your premium picks.

Technically now you can take any position early, obviously guys like punters and kickers and safeties (all but the Berry types) are going to be relegated. BUT

The problem used to be that if you took a running back first overall for example you're on the hook for a monumental contract, same with Guards or linebackers.

With the pay scale now in place teams no longer give two shits about what position they're financially tied to early. If there's an elite prospect you can take them early and not worry if they fill a need about paying them massive money.

Dallas357
01-06-2012, 07:58 PM
"Hate" is strong. It's not like I hate the person and am wishing death on his family. (I reserve that for Bill Polian.)

But the guy pretty clearly had terrible flaws in college that should have kept him out of the first and probably even second round at least. Anyone with a brain could see this.

But the Jaguars take him in the first round and thrust him into the starting role. (It was only a matter of time considering Luke McCown was the only vet on the roster after they cut Garrard.)

So here we are...with this extremely raw passer with multiple crippling flaws starting in the NFL. And it has made for some of the worst performances I've ever seen out of a QB.

I only point this out because it's true. Not out of hate.

i will wait for November to know, by then I will. He had the worst coaching, worst recieving core, and his team had led the league with over 45 dropped passes. Also the most players on ir. I know they'll improve the wr core dramitically and jay gruden will be the new hc.

Rosebud
01-07-2012, 12:20 AM
You've basically repeated my argument in a slightly less aggressive way.

Go look at the Bills draft classes starting in the early 2000s up to last year. I don't know if there has been a team that has gotten as little production out of their first and second round picks as the Bills has. There were a few guys who were effective for stretches but are no longer on the team, but plenty of just sheer, outright BUST picks too.

And Spiller...he was a top 10 draft pick. In this day and age of football, any RB selected that high had better be Adrian ******* Peterson.

I wouldn't even choose a RB in the first round at all personally. Ever. And if a team does, I expect that guy to be a freaking monster beast, top 5 RB. Not a half WR, half RB backup who only makes in impact when the guy in front of him gets injured.

For instance, last year, I HATED the Saints trading for Mark Ingram. Are you serious? Mark Ingram? To add to a 3-4 back rotation? **** that. Ingram doesn't bring anything to the table that you couldn't find in a guy in the 3rd round other than that he played at a bigger school. Trent Richardson is better than Ingram and I wouldn't take Trent Richardson in the first round.

Moral of the story: Don't take RBs in the first round.

Oh and another thing, besides the RB position being so fungible and finding guys in the mid-rounds who can be effective runners, they are one of the most oft-injuried positions in the sport. Adrian Peterson might never be the same.

Don't take RBs in the first round.

I like what they've done the past two drafts, Spiller was a reach, but can still be an absolutely fantastic weapon as there's very few guys in the NFL capable of breaking off a long one the way he can. If he ends up a CJ2K or faster LeSean McCoy then he's not exactly a useless piece, especially teaming up with Fred Jackson as part of what could be a dominant running game.

Caulibflower
01-07-2012, 12:43 AM
I like what they've done the past two drafts, Spiller was a reach, but can still be an absolutely fantastic weapon as there's very few guys in the NFL capable of breaking off a long one the way he can. If he ends up a CJ2K or faster LeSean McCoy then he's not exactly a useless piece, especially teaming up with Fred Jackson as part of what could be a dominant running game.

Part of it is the short careers of running backs, and the fact that through his first two years he hasn't really shown much to justify the pick. Other positions you can allow some development for, but at this point, whether or not CJ ultimately turns into a good, or even elite player, the Bills haven't gotten what they'd hoped to get when they picked him.

Caulibflower
01-07-2012, 12:45 AM
Regarding running backs in this years draft: I'd love to land Doug Martin in the second or third round. He's becoming one of my favorite prospects this year, but even I know there's no point in trying to talk him up as a first-rounder. At least, not yet. Maybe if he blows up the combine the Packers or Patriots start thinking about it.

Rosebud
01-08-2012, 08:34 AM
Part of it is the short careers of running backs, and the fact that through his first two years he hasn't really shown much to justify the pick. Other positions you can allow some development for, but at this point, whether or not CJ ultimately turns into a good, or even elite player, the Bills haven't gotten what they'd hoped to get when they picked him.

Well, that's part of why I'm not as concerned by his limited early impact. He's not racking up miles and just doing so poorly, he's still extremely fresh, smarter and has been explosive when he has gotten some run. For a team as talentless as the one that they had two years ago, not burning out a guy like Spiller early on in his career may be one of those blessing in disguise things.

I like what this new regime has done the past two seasons in the draft and although I wouldn't draft a RB top 10 either, I love Dareus this year and think they've done well rebuilding their team in the trenches. If they can have another good draft this year like the last two and find a pass rush, I think we'll see them really separate themselves from the Bills of the 2000's.

J-Mike88
01-08-2012, 08:53 AM
Any o-line really. Or safety or even an impact linebacker.

A first round talent at any of those positions will give you more quality than you are likely to find by drafting that position later on.

Not true with a RB. Rice, MJD, Forte...all 2nd round picks. Hell, even in the undrafted ranks, Pierre Thomas, BJE, ARIAN FOSTER!

I would never draft a RB in the first round in this day and age of football. Taking literally any other offensive/defensive position in the first and then grabbing a "solid" back in the 2nd or later will give your team a better net result.
Totally agree with all that you said, plus the RB's get injured so much nowadays (hello Peterson, Forte, McFadden, Ingram, Leshoure, Charles, Hillis), it's not worth the risk.

Even the ones who lasted long enough to justify being picked high (Tomlinson, Peterson, MJD, Rice, Steven Jackson), how far did they take their teams? None even sniffed a Super Bowl.

Well AP sniffed one, only for that smell to turn into Farve taking another schit late in a conference title game.

Regardless, the great QBs are the ones who lead teams to titles nowadays.
And even though guys like Brees & Peyton only have one, their teams always have a chance year after year.

I just can't believe the Colts get Luck after having Manning for 15 years. Nice timing of getting the #1 overall picks.

Vox Populi
01-08-2012, 11:58 AM
This entire board is so anti-RB its kind of ridiculous. I'm pretty sure the Chiefs know what a great running back means to a team that doesn't have the luxury of having a top 5 QB on their team. They probably would have taken that joke of a division if Charles didn't get injured, and the Raiders probably would have taken it if McFadden didn't get injured. Trade Rice for Mendenhall and the Steelers take the division without a doubt. Take Marshawn Lynch from the Seahawks and their offense is one of the worst in the NFL. Take Steven Jackson from the Rams and they don't get a first down all year.

I think people are under estimating the number of productive running backs drafted pretty highly. Of the 15 1000 yard runners this year, 8 were first rounders, and 11 were taken in the first two rounds. The remaining four were Turner, Foster, Gore and Greene. Of the top 30 running backs in terms of rushing this year, only four were undrafted (Jackson, Foster, Green-Ellis and Blount), and two others were taken after the first four rounds (Turner and Bradshaw). The only backs there that I'd consider cornerstones to an offense right now are Jackson and Foster, but even then, their backups who were 1st and 2nd rounders still had very good production.

I don't think running backs are as "plug and play" as people like to assume, and that the opinion is a result of a significant amount of wealth at the running back position that exists in the league right now. This opinion was also spread in large part due to the success of Mike Shanahan's system in Denver. Even since 1970, only seven players who weren't first rounders have won the rushing title, one time each (Arian Foster, Maurice Jones-Drew, Priest Holmes, Curtis Martin, Terrell Davis, Christian Okoye and Larry Brown).

I know it hasn't been brought up here, but running backs being useless after 28-30ish isn't a new or recent idea either. In fact, the average age of the rushing title winners has gonne up from 24.9 years old to 26 in the past five decades, never decreasing in any decade. It isn't some great new discovery that running backs have short windows of dominance, and even still in the past fourty years, their value hasn't changed all that much, you just don't see backs hang on for as long as guys like Payton or Emmitt and become national icons like quarter backs are right now, mainly because none of them have really been on incredibly dominant playoff teams.

So, basically, stop under valuing running backs. Every position by itself is worthless compared to QB's right now, but there isn't enough QB talent for everyone to have a great one, so some teams have to invest elsewhere, and if you're only going to have a top 7-15ish QB, the pieces around them have to be better than the ones around Tom Brady, Drew Brees, Peyton Manning and Aaron Rodgers.

Brent
01-08-2012, 12:04 PM
I don't think it's the plug and play part, but rather there is so much RB talent that it's so easy to find a guy that fits your system. Unless the RB is an elite prospect, to the level of an Adrian Peterson, taking the guy in the first might be hard to justify.

BeerBaron
01-08-2012, 12:12 PM
I don't think it's the plug and play part, but rather there is so much RB talent that it's so easy to find a guy that fits your system. Unless the RB is an elite prospect, to the level of an Adrian Peterson, taking the guy in the first might be hard to justify.

Even then, the fact that a "special" back is one hit away from becoming just another guy, it's impossible to justify to me. Even if he's back for week 1 of next year, the usual rule of thumb for serious knee injuries is that it takes a year from when you're back on the field to be back to 100%. If you ever get back to 100% at all.

I would never take a RB in the first round. Ever. Like I said previously, taking literally any other position and then taking a RB in the 2nd/3rd round will help your team more because there is less of a drop from the top RBs to guys available there than there is with other positions.

Also, using the "rushing leaders have been first round picks all but 7 times" argument is asinine. Typically, those guys are just force fed the ball more as their teams suck. How many rushing leaders ever make it to the Superbowl, particularly in recent years?

The last "great" running back to even make the Superbowl was....Shaun Alexander? Last year a team running the ball with James Starks won. Before that, Pierre Thomas. A few years back, it was Brandon Jacobs and crew and before that it was Addai (granted, first round pick, bot NOT a special back) and Domonic Rhodes.

It's far more important to have a great QB than a great RB. This year's rushing leader isn't even in the playoffs (MJD) and NONE of the top 5 are first round picks.

Never take a RB in the first round. Not in this day and age of the NFL.

Vox Populi
01-08-2012, 12:36 PM
Even then, the fact that a "special" back is one hit away from becoming just another guy, it's impossible to justify to me. Even if he's back for week 1 of next year, the usual rule of thumb for serious knee injuries is that it takes a year from when you're back on the field to be back to 100%. If you ever get back to 100% at all.

I would never take a RB in the first round. Ever. Like I said previously, taking literally any other position and then taking a RB in the 2nd/3rd round will help your team more because there is less of a drop from the top RBs to guys available there than there is with other positions.

Also, using the "rushing leaders have been first round picks all but 7 times" argument is asinine. Typically, those guys are just force fed the ball more as their teams suck. How many rushing leaders ever make it to the Superbowl, particularly in recent years?

The last "great" running back to even make the Superbowl was....Shaun Alexander? Last year a team running the ball with James Starks won. Before that, Pierre Thomas. A few years back, it was Brandon Jacobs and crew and before that it was Addai (granted, first round pick, bot NOT a special back) and Domonic Rhodes.

It's far more important to have a great QB than a great RB. This year's rushing leader isn't even in the playoffs (MJD) and NONE of the top 5 are first round picks.

Never take a RB in the first round. Not in this day and age of the NFL.

That wasn't the argument. Its more that there is no way that every team can have a QB that is capable of carrying an offense that has rushing attacks as terrible as the ones that the Packers and Saints had the past two years. Brees, Rodgers, Brady, maybe a couple other guys like Eli and Roethlisberger can actually, and have proven to be able to be playoff QB's. Thats 5 teams, the other 27 teams aren't so fortunate. You can't just keep reloading at QB every three years and hope you get a guy that can be a perennial all-pro. Most teams are in situations where they go long-term with guys like Flacco, Ryan, Trent Green, Steve McNair, Matt Hasselbeck, etc. where they actually need pieces on offense other than a QB. Some teams have to actually invest in the running back position, whether or not its part of the ideology of building a Super Bowl team or not, 20 teams every decade aren't going to have the QB with the ability to get them there by themselves.

J-Mike88
01-08-2012, 12:52 PM
This entire board is so anti-RB its kind of ridiculous. I'm pretty sure the Chiefs know what a great running back means to a team that doesn't have the luxury of having a top 5 QB on their team. They probably would have taken that joke of a division if Charles didn't get injured, and the Raiders probably would have taken it if McFadden didn't get injured. Trade Rice for Mendenhall and the Steelers take the division without a doubt. Take Marshawn Lynch from the Seahawks and their offense is one of the worst in the NFL. Take Steven Jackson from the Rams and they don't get a first down all year.

I think people are under estimating the number of productive running backs drafted pretty highly. Of the 15 1000 yard runners this year, 8 were first rounders, and 11 were taken in the first two rounds. The remaining four were Turner, Foster, Gore and Greene. Of the top 30 running backs in terms of rushing this year, only four were undrafted (Jackson, Foster, Green-Ellis and Blount), and two others were taken after the first four rounds (Turner and Bradshaw). The only backs there that I'd consider cornerstones to an offense right now are Jackson and Foster, but even then, their backups who were 1st and 2nd rounders still had very good production.

I don't think running backs are as "plug and play" as people like to assume, and that the opinion is a result of a significant amount of wealth at the running back position that exists in the league right now. This opinion was also spread in large part due to the success of Mike Shanahan's system in Denver. Even since 1970, only seven players who weren't first rounders have won the rushing title, one time each (Arian Foster, Maurice Jones-Drew, Priest Holmes, Curtis Martin, Terrell Davis, Christian Okoye and Larry Brown).

So, basically, stop under valuing running backs.
No, I agree with BB here for sure.

Number one, Foster, MJD, Priest, Martin, Okoye, Brown... none of them won or even got to a Super Bowl despite rushing titles. Or division titles.
Nobody cares about division titles. The Bears won our division last year. Who cares?
Who cares about individual rushing titles?

Terrell Davis had a HOF QB, TE, and 2 great receivers, or else he'd have just been Larry Johnson or Priest Holmes.

Every Jaguar fan would trade MJD's rushing title this year in for a Super Bowl win.

RB's are overrated. Well, if your goals are winning Super Bowls and not divisions.

There's no prize for winning the schitty AFC West.

Vox Populi
01-08-2012, 12:55 PM
You guys are totally missing the point that not every team has or can have Tom Brady or Aaron Rodgers...

Brent
01-08-2012, 01:01 PM
The last "great" running back to even make the Superbowl was....Shaun Alexander? Last year a team running the ball with James Starks won. Before that, Pierre Thomas. A few years back, it was Brandon Jacobs and crew and before that it was Addai (granted, first round pick, bot NOT a special back) and Domonic Rhodes.
You're actually making the argument that you need one really good RB and one decent #2 RB. *hopes this is true of Frank Gore and Kendall Hunter*

Rosebud
01-08-2012, 01:05 PM
You guys are totally missing the point that not every team has or can have Tom Brady or Aaron Rodgers...

I got you bro. Even though I to wouldn't draft a RB top 10 if there was good defenders or lineman on the board. Unfortunately for the Bills that draft board just fell apart so the only other choice was to reach on Clausen or Tebow...fortunately for them I think Spiller can be a more explosive version of Lesean McCoy, and next to Freddy with that interior OL once they're all healthy again, is a running game that can be dominant. Build up that D, keep stocking up the lines and add a couple receivers and that team can go far, even with Fitz.


EDIT: And you guys shouldn't make fun of James Starks so much, okay, he's the greatestest everz. UB!!!!

EDIT2: I guess why I forgive the reach on Spiller is that I think he can also be absolutely dynamic in the running game...and sadly because I think he won't be a bust, which as you've pointed out was a significant upgrade from most first round picks the Bills have made this century. The rest of their picks where ones I was a fan of as well and this past draft I think they nailed. If they have another good to excellent draft next year then I can sorta get why they started things off by adding an absolutely explosive weapon to an offense that had very little going for it at the time other than Fred Jackson, an undrafted guy who was fast approaching 30 and took a beating behind their awful OL.

SuperMcGee
01-08-2012, 01:20 PM
James Starks just wins championships.

And the board wasnt great at that point, no. The guys I wanted at that point didn't go for another 15 picks (Dez/Bulaga). Spiller can do great things in this offense, though. It is a passing league and our passing game will need to greatly improve for us to have success, but our backs play a huge role when the offense is churning.

Rosebud
01-08-2012, 01:41 PM
James Starks just wins championships.

And the board wasnt great at that point, no. The guys I wanted at that point didn't go for another 15 picks (Dez/Bulaga). Spiller can do great things in this offense, though. It is a passing league and our passing game will need to greatly improve for us to have success, but our backs play a huge role when the offense is churning.

Starkzzz?

Dez is the only guy that stands out as someone they should've grabbed although you have to worry about that type of personality in a town like Buffalo which is why I get picking Spiller over him.

Bengals78
01-08-2012, 01:43 PM
Spiller ruins my day when I play Buffalo in Madden :/

J-Mike88
01-08-2012, 01:46 PM
You guys are totally missing the point that not every team has or can have Tom Brady or Aaron Rodgers...
I understand that, but in fact every team could have had Brady, about 5 times over, and anyone could have gotten Rodgers too.

Now someone can come get Matt Flynn.

Again, my main point is that the RB is no more relevant than the RG or LG in today's NFL, and in fact less because they (RB) break down sooner and more often.

Rosebud
01-08-2012, 01:51 PM
I understand that, but in fact every team could have had Brady, about 5 times over, and anyone could have gotten Rodgers too.

Now someone can come get Matt Flynn.

Again, my main point is that the RB is no more relevant than the RG or LG in today's NFL, and in fact less because they (RB) break down sooner and more often.

How do we know Flynn will be any better than Fitzy?

Brent
01-08-2012, 01:58 PM
How do we know Flynn will be any better than Fitzy?
or even Kolb, for that matter.

Bengals78
01-08-2012, 02:10 PM
or even Kolb, for that matter.

Packerzzzzzz

Rosebud
01-08-2012, 02:19 PM
Packerzzzzzz

Just look at Aaron Brooks and Matt Hasselback!!!! ELITE FRANCHISE GUYS!!!

wogitalia
01-08-2012, 08:34 PM
I'd kind of love for a Texans vs 49ers SB just because of what it would mean from the NFL beliefs point of view. Two run first, second and third teams with strong defenses. Would be cool because the majority seem to think that you can't win that way.

I think that RB, K and P are the 3 positions that should never be taken in the 1st round, I say that having had Peterson for half a decade to cheer for and as great as he is, he just isn't considerably better than Foster or Rice or many other guys outside the first and Peterson was one of the few that worked out. P and K should be obvious as to the reasoning.

I think safety has become a vital position in the modern game, personally I think an elite safety means as much as anyone else on the defense. Look at the two defenses that have been consistently good for the past 5 years. Pittsburgh and Baltimore. Their defenses have both been consistently dominant and they've had the two best safeties in the league for that period.

The Chiefs last year just looked better on defense than this year. Packers, Saints(LY and SB year). Heck, look at the Colts, Sanders coming back and dominating was probably the single biggest reason they won a SB.

On the flip side, look at the Vikes, we haven't had an above average safety(Sharper was horrible for us and he was our best in 10 years) and despite having had possibly the most talented DL in the league and some solid corners our defense has never been any good against the pass.

Safety has become vital in the modern game and will only become more so as TEs become more central to offenses.

OL is the other interesting position draft wise for mine. There is no denying that the OL is of massive importance but I'm not sure how important drafting elite prospects on it are, I mean the OL seems to be as hard as QB to predict, especially on the outside, and there doesn't seem to really be any indicators that you can't put together a very strong line with late draft picks and UDFA guys. Interestingly the outside guys seem less predictable, elite inside linemen seem to hold up(check the success on 1st round C and OG) but OT seems to almost be luck of the draw, maybe because teams still reach on them? I also think that the interior has become more important.

The top OTs are all on weak teams and this has been common over the past few years. Whereas the top interior guys are on top teams. Look at teams like New Orleans, Green Bay, Pittsburgh and New England. Their best linemen are all interior guys, heck New York struggled massively because Mangold had a down year and the whole line fell apart from the inside out. Vikes line has gotten worse each year since we lost Birk and as Hutch ages, the outside guys were never any good to begin with.

I think it's easily explained, offenses don't hold onto the ball and outside pass rushers are seriously limited in how they can hit a QB, which makes the most dangerous pass rush an interior push that disrupts everything, these days outside pass rushing is just too slow to impact most plays and thus you really only need a tackle who can protect inside out and kick his defender out a step or two. Packers defensive struggles are a perfect example of this, last year they had Jenkins and Raji consistently coming up the middle, this year they lost Jenkins and Raji hasn't been anywhere near as effective, throw in losing their elite safety and their defense has been pretty damn awful and almost totally reliant on turnovers, last year it was very strong.

Game is changing, I don't think it's a surprise that the top teams are also some of the most progressive in the front office.

Ness
01-08-2012, 11:44 PM
^Safety is a position on defense I wish more elite players like Reed and Polamalu would emerge. As good as the 49ers defense is this season, I really worry about our safety play. Goldson and Whitner have been decent, but I still fear the long ball. It's a rare position where you find megastars at, and it's also a position where you don't hear a lot of mega contracts being thrown towards.

Complex
01-08-2012, 11:53 PM
They have emerged except they play for Seattle and the other one is on IR in KC.

Mufasa
01-08-2012, 11:59 PM
The level of safety play in the league today really is sad. You got Reed and Polamalu.....then Nick Collins?.....then what? Honestly I would not feel comfortable at all trying to make a top 10 list for safeties. It seems like there are just a ton of mediocre players at the position. I'm guessing this is because the most talented secondary players stay at corner. How many teams would say they are happy with the safety play they are getting? Not many.


EDIT: Although as Complex hit on, there are some young guys with bright futures.

XxXdragonXxX
01-09-2012, 12:01 AM
They have emerged except they play for Seattle and the other one is on IR in KC.

2 of them play in Seattle, actually.

Complex
01-09-2012, 12:01 AM
Eric Berry and the Seattle duo of Kam and Earl Thomas are better than Nick Collins and Troy.

SuperMcGee
01-09-2012, 12:02 AM
I think there is some good top talent emerging at safety, for sure. Earl Thomas, Jairus Byrd, and Eric Berry all look like they could be the top guys in the league in the immediate future.

Complex
01-09-2012, 12:03 AM
2 of them play in Seattle, actually.

I know I said They play for Seattle and the other one is on IR in KC.

XxXdragonXxX
01-09-2012, 12:04 AM
Just look at Aaron Brooks and Matt Hasselback!!!! ELITE FRANCHISE GUYS!!!

Don't ever, ever, ever ever ever, mention Matt Hasselbeck and Aaron Brooks in the same sentence.

XxXdragonXxX
01-09-2012, 12:05 AM
I know I said They play for Seattle and the other one is on IR in KC.


Ah I see, totally misread the post. Carry on.

MetSox17
01-09-2012, 12:11 AM
The only thing that worries me about the Seattle duo is that Kam Chancellor looks like he can balloon up into another Roy Biscuit Williams if he doesn't watch his conditioning. ET is the man.

wogitalia
01-09-2012, 12:55 AM
XxXdragonXxX that sig is amazing, best play of the year? Even if the first one was suspiciously close to in the back!

MetSox17
01-09-2012, 01:00 AM
XxXdragonXxX that sig is amazing, best play of the year? Even if the first one was suspiciously close to in the back!

Yeah, i never noticed it until someone pointed it out in the gameday thread earlier today. What a beast, he was a one man wrecking crew on that play.

XxXdragonXxX
01-09-2012, 01:12 AM
Yeah I think that might be a block in the back but oh well, it was awesome anyway.

Most exciting fair catch ever?

Mufasa
01-09-2012, 01:41 AM
Block in the back on the first guy. The second guy was tripped up by the first. And the third guy was laid out because he saw it was a fair catch and let up. So really it's only like half a block.

Still looks cool though

wogitalia
01-09-2012, 01:54 AM
That's what beast mode looks like though!

Also... it looked like he was about to earn a flag from the 4th guy who was raging trying to get him back...

kalbears13
01-09-2012, 02:06 AM
Leon Washington, "...the ****?"

http://cdn3.sbnation.com/imported_assets/941911/r8y2xl_jpg_medium.gif