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View Full Version : Turner and Smith stay in SD


Jango
01-03-2012, 01:30 PM
According to Jason LaCamfora and Schefter on twitter.

Couple of late season wins are apparently good enough for these two to keep their jobs. Could have an impact on teams wanting Norv as their OC this off-season, seemed to be a few of them around who wanted him.

Thoughts? Good decision?

Paul
01-03-2012, 01:34 PM
Content with mediocrity I see.

DraftSavant
01-03-2012, 01:36 PM
Ownership trying to piss off an already apathetic fanbase before packing up for LA.

The Chargers are a content, veteran team. They need to ditch the player's coach model.

DI
01-03-2012, 01:41 PM
Amen Paul. I said the same exact thing when I saw this news. A team that obviously doesn't realize that they aren't going to win a thing under this regime.

Razor
01-03-2012, 01:48 PM
Content with mediocrity I see.

My first thought as well. This is stupid, especially with someone like Jeff Fisher available.

soybean
01-03-2012, 01:49 PM
you have got to be kidding me. SD is probably the most attractive job out there. You can definitely find better.

Prowler
01-03-2012, 01:58 PM
Lords of No Rings. Does LeBron have an ownership stake in that team?

Brodeur
01-03-2012, 02:08 PM
Spanos is a cheap asshole that doesn't give a **** about his team, it's not too difficult to realize that.

Basileus777
01-03-2012, 02:14 PM
Excellent. I was hoping for a late season run by SD for precisely this reason.

Jughead10
01-03-2012, 02:15 PM
Spanos is a cheap asshole that doesn't give a **** about his team, it's not too difficult to realize that.

Rumor is he really wanted Andy Reid. Once he realized Reid was staying, they just decided to keep Norv.

killxswitch
01-03-2012, 02:39 PM
I hate the team so it makes me happy. But I feel bad for Chargers fans.

yo123
01-03-2012, 02:41 PM
My first thought as well. This is stupid, especially with someone like Jeff Fisher available.

Mediocrity was kinda Jeff's thing in Tennessee as well.

vidae
01-03-2012, 02:44 PM
http://cdn.wg.uproxx.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/swanson-dance.gif

Brodeur
01-03-2012, 02:55 PM
Rumor is he really wanted Andy Reid. Once he realized Reid was staying, they just decided to keep Norv.

Then he's a cheap and stupid bastard.

descendency
01-03-2012, 03:01 PM
A player coach managing a low discipline team... I predict Tebow wins the division again.

tjsunstein
01-03-2012, 03:03 PM
How do you even justify this to your fans?

Forenci
01-03-2012, 03:11 PM
Probably will make some people upset. I'm sure there are a lot of fans that would have loved to have Norv Turner as their offensive coordinator.

WMD
01-03-2012, 03:14 PM
Chargers fans have my sympy. That sucks.

JBCX
01-03-2012, 03:15 PM
I think they can win the Super Bowl with this head coach and GM.

Raiderz4Life
01-03-2012, 03:17 PM
I think they can win the Super Bowl with this head coach and GM.

If all the other 31 teams forfeit.

descendency
01-03-2012, 03:18 PM
I think they can win the Super Bowl with this head coach and GM.

Two years ago, if Cowher was their coach or Andy Reid or someone like that, maybe.

Not now.

Basileus777
01-03-2012, 03:20 PM
I think they can win the Super Bowl with this head coach and GM.

They can't even make the playoffs in a horrible division. 3 out of the past 4 years they've basically been a .500 team.

nepg
01-03-2012, 03:35 PM
They just aren't as talented as the other teams in that division anymore on top of having a HC who is just not good and never has been.

JBCX
01-03-2012, 03:36 PM
They just aren't as talented as the other teams in that division anymore on top of having a HC who is just not good and never has been.

How are they not as talented as the other teams in their division?

They have, by far, the best quarterback. They have maybe the second best RB. They have the best WRs and TEs. They have a defense that is talent-wise, as good as or better than the others in their division.

Prowler
01-03-2012, 03:41 PM
The point is that football did not begin last year. Norv Turner has been a career underachieving head coach. They've had arguably the best QB, TE, and RB in the division for half a decade now and have done nothing. They fired the guy(Schottenheimer) who actually built them into something because of losing in the playoffs after a 14-2 season. How the hell can they continually reward mediocrity from Norv Turner? He should be gone.

Basileus777
01-03-2012, 03:42 PM
San Diego does not have a good defense, nor are they particularly talented on that side of the ball. Yeah they have Rivers, but swap him with another AFC West QB and the Chargers would be one of the worst teams in football. San Diego isn't a super talented team anymore, they are a lesser team being carried by their quarterback to mediocrity.

Norv is a poor coach, but his negative impact on the team is exaggerated by people stuck in 2006 thinking the Chargers are still this team stacked with talent. AJ Smith's poor personnel decisions have as much to do with this team's decline as anything Norv has done.

Prowler
01-03-2012, 03:45 PM
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/7f/Schotty_Championship.jpg

2011 UFL Champion Virginia Destroyers

Who's laughing now Spanos?

nepg
01-03-2012, 03:46 PM
How are they not as talented as the other teams in their division?

They have, by far, the best quarterback. They have maybe the second best RB. They have the best WRs and TEs. They have a defense that is talent-wise, as good as or better than the others in their division.

RBs
1. Charles
2. McFadden
3. McGahee
4. Matthews (#2???)

I'll take Breaston, Baldwin, Bowe, and Moeaki over most groups of receivers in the NFL, including the Chargers. The Raiders have a better overall group of receivers, too.

The Chiefs defense blows SD out of the water talent-wise. Oakland and Denver are also better than SD on that side of the ball.

SD is clearly the worst team as far as ST goes.

San Diego had a window that was open for almost an entire decade. It's closed now.

Ness
01-03-2012, 04:05 PM
Jeff Fisher would have been a great fit for the Chargers. They should have tried to pursue him hard. I like Turner. He's a good coach and really knows his offense, but he's had his time and after two seasons of not making the playoffs I think it's time for a change.

That being said, I wouldn't be shocked at all if next season the Chargers get their stuff straight and have a good season. This team could still easily win 10+ games next year. The draft and the free agency are going to be crucial for them.

DBNYDP
01-03-2012, 04:22 PM
Chargers have the worst defense in the division (oddly enough the AFC West has three defenses that I think are going to take a step up next year and be three of the better defenses in the league). They have the best QB and maybe the best receiver even though that is arguable. Their line is terrible, I don't think Gates is all that and a bag of chips anymore, and their running backs are not the best in the division by any stretch of the imagination. I think the Chargers are becoming sort of like the Colts in that they rely heavily on their QB play. If Phillip Rivers isn't balling that team struggles, unlike other teams other parts of their team don't pick up the slack. I also think that is why Phillip Rivers is one of the better QBs in the league as he has honestly one of the worst working conditions of any QB in the league.

San Diego Chicken
01-03-2012, 04:40 PM
RBs
1. Charles
2. McFadden
3. McGahee
4. Matthews (#2???)

I'll take Breaston, Baldwin, Bowe, and Moeaki over most groups of receivers in the NFL, including the Chargers. The Raiders have a better overall group of receivers, too.

The Chiefs defense blows SD out of the water talent-wise. Oakland and Denver are also better than SD on that side of the ball.

SD is clearly the worst team as far as ST goes.

San Diego had a window that was open for almost an entire decade. It's closed now.

I seriously question your ability to evaluate talent.

nepg
01-03-2012, 05:49 PM
On which account? I seriously question your inability to be mad bro.

Matthew Jones
01-03-2012, 05:58 PM
Retaining these guys is a mistake; the Chargers should have tried to land one of the big coaching prizes.

Prowler
01-03-2012, 06:00 PM
Maybe Archie Manning would have told those coaches not to sign with them?

Iamcanadian
01-03-2012, 06:25 PM
How are they not as talented as the other teams in their division?

They have, by far, the best quarterback. They have maybe the second best RB. They have the best WRs and TEs. They have a defense that is talent-wise, as good as or better than the others in their division.

I agree, all the more reason why they both should have been fired.
Apparently, Rivers likes working with Turner, why not, he's a great OC but a terrible HC.
KC, Oakland and Denver fans are loving this move.

DraftSavant
01-03-2012, 06:26 PM
I still honestly believe this move was made to alienate an already apathetic fanbase.

nepg
01-03-2012, 06:28 PM
I still honestly believe this move was made to alienate an already apathetic fanbase.
I can't think of a more rational reason. No sarcasm.

FUNBUNCHER
01-03-2012, 06:38 PM
http://imgs.sfgate.com/c/pictures/2001/12/16/mn_death07.jpghttp://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/02094/north-korea-funera_2094540i.jpghttp://nimg.sulekha.com/others/original700/lorraine-yaslowitz-thomas-baitinger-jeffrey-yaslowitz-2011-1-28-12-1-31.jpg


Rest in Peace, Bolts.

Norval is but a brief speck in time.
The Spanos are forever.

bantx
01-03-2012, 11:12 PM
http://30.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lx9d0g4SaR1r7dzd8o1_500.jpg

bantx
01-04-2012, 12:13 AM
I will try to be optimistic about it; at least the players are still playing hard for Norv that has to count for something? Now can we get rid of Manusky's ****** ass

Byrd430
01-04-2012, 09:04 AM
Another classic example of a great coordinator who just can't cut it as a head coach....

I like Norv Turner, I always have, and I will not bash him. I think he is a decent head coach, but it's like what others have said, the Chargers are content with mediocrity.

While I definitely argue that San Diego still has a talented team. Are they the most talented team in their division? I don't really know. What I do know is that SD's talent level is nowhere close to what it was five years ago. The Chargers have been content with letting go of former, aging cornerstones of the team (such as Merriman, Williams, Tomlinson), but they don't replace them with more, younger cornerstones.

So, to recap:
Franchise in Denial
Owners alienating fans
Average Head Coach
Bad GM
Bleak future

Xenos
01-04-2012, 08:47 PM
My first thought as well. This is stupid, especially with someone like Jeff Fisher available.
If we're going to hire somebody to replace Norv, I want someone who actually is better than Norv. No point in going backwards just because everyone hates Norv.

LonghornsLegend
01-04-2012, 10:06 PM
I didn't read through the thread, but it's surprisingly ironic that now, for some reason, SD is content with mediocrity in the organization, yet somehow Schottenheimer and his 14-2 record wasn't good enough. He was 47-33 while he was there, not much different then Norv going 49-31, but look at the season SD is coming off of. Losing the division to Denver, in a wide open AFC West.


Schott's staff had guys like Wade Phillips, Cam Cameron, & Rob Chudzinski on it. For some reason AJ's ego felt the need to get him out of there, the staff was blown up, and yet AJ & Norv get another free pass when it's inevitable he'll be fired a year from now.

LonghornsLegend
01-04-2012, 10:20 PM
RBs
1. Charles
2. McFadden
3. McGahee
4. Matthews (#2???)

I'll take Breaston, Baldwin, Bowe, and Moeaki over most groups of receivers in the NFL, including the Chargers. The Raiders have a better overall group of receivers, too.

The Chiefs defense blows SD out of the water talent-wise. Oakland and Denver are also better than SD on that side of the ball.

SD is clearly the worst team as far as ST goes.

San Diego had a window that was open for almost an entire decade. It's closed now.



Sorry but this is a pretty terrible post.



So you'd take KC's WR's over most groups of WR's in the NFL and SD's window is closed with a 29 year old Rivers who is easily the best QB in the division? Could you use any less rationale?

Xenos
01-04-2012, 10:27 PM
I didn't read through the thread, but it's surprisingly ironic that now, for some reason, SD is content with mediocrity in the organization, yet somehow Schottenheimer and his 14-2 record wasn't good enough. He was 47-33 while he was there, not much different then Norv going 49-31, but look at the season SD is coming off of. Losing the division to Denver, in a wide open AFC West.


Schott's staff had guys like Wade Phillips, Cam Cameron, & Rob Chudzinski on it. For some reason AJ's ego felt the need to get him out of there, the staff was blown up, and yet AJ & Norv get another free pass when it's inevitable he'll be fired a year from now.
It's a little bit more complicated than that. The reason why Marty ended up getting canned was because the staff was blown up due to everyone getting promoted. Marty basically decided to quit on the team by getting himself fired with the attempted hiring of his brother as DC (whose only experience was in a 4-3 and a medicore one at that).

The 14-2 team was a rarity though. We were almost perfect that year in terms of talent and execution. We fortunately lost a lot of that talent due to age and injuries unfortunately.

SaintsMan
01-04-2012, 11:00 PM
I love AJ Smith. Greatest GM in Saints history. :)

Ness
01-04-2012, 11:00 PM
My first thought as well. This is stupid, especially with someone like Jeff Fisher available.

We should remember that Jeff Fisher hasn't really done much in the last few years. He had a 13-3 team in 2008. But since the days of McNair and George, his teams has underachieved for the most part.

Prowler
01-05-2012, 05:39 AM
Fisher just needed a change of scenery. It looked like he wasn't meshing with the owner at the end and was also undone by lack of professionalism by Vince Young. He's got the talent and a better coaching background than 90% of all coaches out there.

Ness
01-05-2012, 05:47 AM
Fisher just needed a change of scenery. It looked like he wasn't meshing with the owner at the end and was also undone by lack of professionalism by Vince Young. He's got the talent and a better coaching background than 90% of all coaches out there.
He's a good coach, don't get me wrong, but let's not make him out to be Vince Lombardi like folks seem to be doing. He's just the best candidate out there with the best resume right now. If Jeff Fisher goes to San Diego, I don't see them turning into Super Bowl contenders right off the bat. And will he even get along with AJ Smith? He'd still be a good hire, but I think some big questions will remain.

DraftSavant
01-05-2012, 11:34 AM
I didn't read through the thread, but it's surprisingly ironic that now, for some reason, SD is content with mediocrity in the organization, yet somehow Schottenheimer and his 14-2 record wasn't good enough. He was 47-33 while he was there, not much different then Norv going 49-31, but look at the season SD is coming off of. Losing the division to Denver, in a wide open AFC West.


Schott's staff had guys like Wade Phillips, Cam Cameron, & Rob Chudzinski on it. For some reason AJ's ego felt the need to get him out of there, the staff was blown up, and yet AJ & Norv get another free pass when it's inevitable he'll be fired a year from now.

You mention those assistants (Wade, Cam), but those guys both ended up getting head coaching jobs after 06. That's why they wanted to let Marty go...because he wasn't really "coaching" anymore and the guys who were left.

:shrug:

NY+Giants=NYG
01-05-2012, 11:45 AM
Thank god Manning didn't want any part of that franchise. I feel bad for Rivers. great Qb suck in that organization with that owner and stupid GM.

Shane P. Hallam
01-05-2012, 11:49 AM
Rivers did say he wanted Norv to stay on as coach...

NY+Giants=NYG
01-05-2012, 11:55 AM
Rivers did say he wanted Norv to stay on as coach...

It's good he has some input, but if Norv isn't the answer, ownership should do what they think is right. Even if that means doing something against the franchise QB. You can't have players dictating things. If Norv or Smith aren't the right fit than make a chance especially since there are better coaches out there.

bantx
01-05-2012, 11:59 AM
It's obvious we've been on the decline since 06, but if we can start the season like we did this season and push through the losing streaks we always seem to get we can be that competitive team we can be. Injuries hurt us pretty bad this year it was apparent, not an excuse, but we could've won a lot of those close losses we had in our 6 game losing streak. Trying to be optimistic? :l

diabsoule
01-05-2012, 12:06 PM
Norv will be getting his 4th DC in 6 years after Manusky got fired today

NY+Giants=NYG
01-05-2012, 12:16 PM
Norv will be getting his 4th DC in 6 years after Manusky got fired today

Sounds like our organization in the DC department. It's like American Idol, DC version for us.

bantx
01-05-2012, 01:22 PM
Thank the heavens Manusky got canned I was hoping he was going to be gone mid season, hopefully we can get someone that actually send more then 4 rushers.

FlyingElvis
01-05-2012, 03:34 PM
Norv certainly should take the fall, as the Chargers seem to be perennial "slow-starters" and that is always coaching.

I just hope AJ never gets a ring. He is quite a tool, and I love the nickname.

If we're going to hire somebody to replace Norv, I want someone who actually is better than Norv. No point in going backwards just because everyone hates Norv.

Yeah, I don't really get the Jeff Fisher love-fest. He's another mediocre coach who somehow always gets viewed through rose colored glasses. I like him, and he's certainly a better option than many current coaches, but I'm not buying him as a better option than Norv.

Ness
01-05-2012, 04:01 PM
Chargers just had an up and down year and Phillip Rivers kept throwing interceptions. Can't blame Turner for that. That protection upfront got a little better down the stretch, but it was too little too late. I think the Chargers play a lot better in 2012. I don't see the Raiders, Chiefs, or Broncos being powerhouses next year. This team did start 4-1 at the beginning of the season, and the previous year had the number one offense and defense in the NFL, their special teams just killed them.

Really, the Chargers are a screwed up snap away from being in the playoffs.

San Diego Chicken
01-05-2012, 04:21 PM
Thank the heavens Manusky got canned I was hoping he was going to be gone mid season, hopefully we can get someone that actually send more then 4 rushers.

Defense wasn't a problem ALL the time, just in certain games. I think red-zone offense was a very large problem too. Dean is being a hypocrite about this.

I don't know, maybe Cowher told them no and he felt he had no better options than Norv (which is stupid). There isn't much accountability left in the organization and I don't see things getting much better in 2012.

Basileus777
01-06-2012, 01:25 AM
I think the Chargers play a lot better in 2012Possibly, but everyone said the same thing last year. They've been a .500 team 3 out of the past 4 seasons, they've been pretty consistent in their mediocrity.

Really, the Chargers are a screwed up snap away from being in the playoffs.

Everyone in the AFC West was a play away from winning the division. That doesn't really mean anything.

Ness
01-06-2012, 06:47 AM
Possibly, but everyone said the same thing last year. They've been a .500 team 3 out of the past 4 seasons, they've been pretty consistent in their mediocrity.



Everyone in the AFC West was a play away from winning the division. That doesn't really mean anything.

The Chargers are two years out of the playoffs, and haven't had a losing season since 2003. It's not the end of the world.

Everyone in the AFC West aren't as talented as San Diego. That's the key difference. Really, who is going to be favorites to win the AFC West next year? I bet most people still think it's San Diego.

bantx
01-06-2012, 10:16 AM
Defense wasn't a problem ALL the time, just in certain games. I think red-zone offense was a very large problem too. Dean is being a hypocrite about this.

I don't know, maybe Cowher told them no and he felt he had no better options than Norv (which is stupid). There isn't much accountability left in the organization and I don't see things getting much better in 2012.

It wasn't, but it wasn't amazing. I could probably count the number of times he's rushed more then 4 rushers on 2 hands. He plays it too safe and our soft zone got ate up. Eric Weddle having a great year made our defense less crappy, he picked up Manusky's slack a lot. Matt Barnes got most of his sacks on a straight up 4 man rush, no stunts or anything. I do believe if we would've sent more stunts our zones would not have been exploited so easily. Our defense was on the field way too long that had something to do with the offense turning it over a lot, but with the soft defense made it longer then it should have been.

JBCX
01-06-2012, 10:36 AM
Norv Turner this year reminded me of Gary Kubiak last year, or Sean Payton in 2008.

They're great offensive coaches with great QBs who could easily be 13-3 or 12-4, make the playoffs, and even win a Super Bowl if they just had the right defensive coordinator.

If Turner hires the right DC next year, I could easily see them as the #1 or #2 seed in the AFC and even a Super Bowl champ.

DraftSavant
01-06-2012, 10:37 AM
The Chargers are two years out of the playoffs, and haven't had a losing season since 2003. It's not the end of the world.

Everyone in the AFC West aren't as talented as San Diego. That's the key difference. Really, who is going to be favorites to win the AFC West next year? I bet most people still think it's San Diego.

Meh, SD has the best QB, and that's about it.

Replace Rivers with a guy like Kyle Orton, and they're picking in the top 10.

bantx
01-06-2012, 10:39 AM
I still think we have one of the best WR-TE group

Prowler
01-06-2012, 12:52 PM
Floyd was playing lights out this year. He had one of the highest catch rates in the league. Vincent Jackson isn't too shabby either.

FlyingElvis
01-06-2012, 01:04 PM
Gates is clearly nearing the end and Floyd is made of glass. However, when everyone's healthy, it's definitely a top notch unit.

bantx
01-06-2012, 01:13 PM
Gates not in his prime is still pretty good. You saw in his last few games he was getting separation will little effort while running his routes. Still more productive then a lot of TE.

FlyingElvis
01-06-2012, 01:23 PM
Gates not in his prime is still pretty good. You saw in his last few games he was getting separation will little effort while running his routes. Still more productive then a lot of TE.

I concur. He's not really dimishing in skill as much as he's dimishing in health, resulting in dimishing snaps. He's still top 3, he just gets an asterick b/c he's less likely to play a full 16 game schedule. *Top 3 while 100%*

Rosebud
01-06-2012, 02:33 PM
Thank the heavens Fewell got canned I was hoping he was going to be gone mid season, hopefully we can get someone that actually send more then 3 rushers.

...and now I've made myself sad...*sigh*

Ness
01-06-2012, 03:56 PM
Meh, SD has the best QB, and that's about it.

Replace Rivers with a guy like Kyle Orton, and they're picking in the top 10.

Teams with the best quarterbacks usually win the division.

nepg
01-06-2012, 05:09 PM
Sorry but this is a pretty terrible post.



So you'd take KC's WR's over most groups of WR's in the NFL and SD's window is closed with a 29 year old Rivers who is easily the best QB in the division? Could you use any less rationale?

Yes, I'd take a full season Baldwin, Breaston, and Bowe over most WR groups in the NFL. That's a no-brainer. With Moeaki, that's a ridiculous group.

I really don't give a **** about Rivers. He plays like dog **** at the worst times, and that's why they're 8-8. Kid's waaaay overrated.

vidae
01-06-2012, 05:12 PM
Really, who is going to be favorites to win the AFC West next year? I bet most people still think it's San Diego.

Everyone has picked them as pre-season Super Bowl contenders too. Them "most people" sure are right!

Ness
01-06-2012, 05:38 PM
Everyone has picked them as pre-season Super Bowl contenders too. Them "most people" sure are right!

Since when is winning the division the same as getting to the Super Bowl?

DraftSavant
01-06-2012, 06:20 PM
Teams with the best quarterbacks usually win the division.

The last two years, they division has been won by teams quarterbacked by Tim Tebow and Matt Cassell.


I really don't give a **** about Rivers. He plays like dog **** at the worst times, and that's why they're 8-8. Kid's waaaay overrated.

Co-sign. The AFC Championship game against the Pats was gutty and all, and he's got a good December record, but dude picks some awful times to be bad.

Brothgar
01-06-2012, 06:34 PM
Honestly half the posters on this forums can do a better Job than AJ Smith has done these past few years. Him still having a job is terrible.

Ness
01-06-2012, 06:35 PM
The last two years, they division has been won by teams quarterbacked by Tim Tebow and Matt Cassell.

Two years out of seven isn't that big of a deal. And Matt Cassel had a pretty good season last year. If you take a look around the NFL, a lot of the divisions that have been won are usually because that team has the best quarterback in the division.

Most of the time, the team with the best quarterback takes the crown. This is kind of irrelevant though. Rivers obviously isn't the problem in San Diego. I'm curious as to what San Diego fans believe Turner is doing right and what they want upgraded. I think firing Greg Manusky was a good move. That defense really went downhill from last year when Ron Rivera left.